Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 4: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up and Us
Speaker 1: for You podcast. As always, I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: Oh hey, Kara, it's me Lisa, your co host. Oh
Speaker 2: hi Lisa. We talk U S for You, crimes interviews.
Speaker 2: It's a jam packed podcast episode. And I know we
Speaker 2: have a great podcast because the listeners keep telling us,
Speaker 2: so we got to believe them.
Speaker 3: At some point. We can't just be like, oh are
Speaker 3: we cool.
Speaker 2: We are our audience, they're educated, they're rich, they're amazing.
Speaker 3: Tip well at live shows. Yeah, we love it.
Speaker 1: We love to see it.
Speaker 2: Well, yesterday I did a podcast called Whed and Grub
Speaker 2: with a girl named Mary Jane, perfect name, listens to
Speaker 2: the pod, loves SVU, and you know, she brought great snacks.
Speaker 1: We're talking to our lawyers. She's like, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of friends that listen. I think she listens well.
Speaker 2: So they made me gluten free brownies because she listens
Speaker 2: to the pod for this like weed and Snacks podcast.
Speaker 2: Then I went to visit our friend Sam, who is
Speaker 2: fully gluten free, like seven months pregnant, if not more,
Speaker 2: did not bring her a brownie.
Speaker 3: You should have just told her there was weed in them. Noah.
Speaker 2: It hit me a midway and I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, and she's like, I don't know if I'll.
Speaker 3: Ever forgive you.
Speaker 2: She's like herself, she was like fuck you because she
Speaker 2: was like because her husband bought Girl Scout cookies, but
Speaker 2: she can't have gluten for real. So I was just
Speaker 2: poisoning my body and she was just pregnant. Knowing I
Speaker 2: had gluten free brownie is just hours earlier.
Speaker 3: Bad friend.
Speaker 1: I sent her these gluten free cookies one time that
Speaker 1: she was obsessed with, and her husband texted me being like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck did you send us? These are so good?
Speaker 1: So like, if people are looking for a Los Angeles
Speaker 1: option of gluten free brownies or cookies, this place is
Speaker 1: called Deluscious.
Speaker 3: That's a bad na.
Speaker 1: People are obsessed. It's a bad name. But till somebody
Speaker 1: tell me about it, and I get their emails all
Speaker 1: the time, and like it has been only a hit
Speaker 1: with people I've sent it to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but these these brownies were made of beans. The
Speaker 2: bass is black bears.
Speaker 3: Right right.
Speaker 1: I've had black bean chocolate cake. I've had like a
Speaker 1: black bean like a chocolate cake vegan time.
Speaker 2: And I'm glad they didn't they told me after I
Speaker 2: took bites, because if they told me before, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have had even a bite. I don't quote unquote like
Speaker 2: black beans, but I surely do for all of you
Speaker 2: listening today. I did lock myself out of the door
Speaker 2: or my home and Kara had to bring the key,
Speaker 2: so saved the day right before recording. Yeah, but what
Speaker 2: was wild was I kept texting and calling you and
Speaker 2: you weren't a But then I got a notification you
Speaker 2: responded to an email chain we were on, and I
Speaker 2: was like, this, bitch, wait, I.
Speaker 3: Did you did? I got the notification you were emailing
Speaker 3: about a meeting. I was looking at my phone.
Speaker 1: I was on another podcast, and I responded to like
Speaker 1: a quick email.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But to me, I was like, how is she I've called?
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're responding to scheduling emails. I'm like in
Speaker 2: a sweatshirt, floppy titting outside. All of these elderly men
Speaker 2: are looking at me, and I know what they're saying,
Speaker 2: My tits are huge. If it's not a tight tank top,
Speaker 2: they are flopping. And I just didn't anticipate so much
Speaker 2: action on the outside world.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, speaking of big tits, I did just buy the
Speaker 1: sportspraw that Hannah recommended the email one that fucking that's
Speaker 1: a nonsurgical boob job. Like I am like flat when
Speaker 1: I wear this thing, Like yeah, not flat, but like
Speaker 1: I can run, I can do anything. Like your boobs
Speaker 1: are in there been running?
Speaker 3: Have you been running? I don't run.
Speaker 5: I did.
Speaker 1: This segues perfectly into how I and our friend Lauren
Speaker 1: last night.
Speaker 3: Took a tap class.
Speaker 1: I took our tad Okay, yeah, it was so funny.
Speaker 1: Like first of all, I get there and I'm waiting
Speaker 1: outside because there's still like a ballet class.
Speaker 3: Going on inside for like adult women.
Speaker 1: And I'm like. This woman comes up and she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: are you here for the tap class? And I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 3: And she goes yeah. I go have you been before?
Speaker 1: And she goes, see, I've been a few times, and
Speaker 1: I go I have no tap experience and she goes
Speaker 1: really and I go no, and she goes none, and
Speaker 1: I go you're making I was like, you're making me
Speaker 1: feel really self goteous, Like I go, yeah. I emailed
Speaker 1: and they said that it's like beginner like thinking I'm
Speaker 1: going to get into this class and it's going to
Speaker 1: be fucking Gregory Hines and Savion Glover or something, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I get it. And my friend Lauren shows
Speaker 1: up and I go. This woman made me feel really
Speaker 1: weird because Lauren doesn't have any experience either. She is
Speaker 1: an Irish dancer, which, don't worry. The teacher pointed it
Speaker 1: out because she could tell immediately that Lauren had a
Speaker 1: good shuffle.
Speaker 2: Oh you are so jealous, weren't you when she got
Speaker 2: that compliment?
Speaker 1: Oh no, I loved it. I was like because she
Speaker 1: was like, she's like, I'm good at the shuffle, but
Speaker 1: I don't move my arms. That's the thing that's different
Speaker 1: about tap versus Irish dances that her arms are.
Speaker 3: Pasted to her side.
Speaker 1: But it was really fun. We got in there. It
Speaker 1: was us that woman and a teenage girl whose mom
Speaker 1: was watching her the whole time. It was so fun
Speaker 1: and I we.
Speaker 3: Could both keep up.
Speaker 1: It was like, even though we don't have experience. The
Speaker 1: woman went slow, like it was you know, it was
Speaker 1: really fun.
Speaker 2: But was that woman talking shit even that good? No,
Speaker 2: that's what I mean. I forgot who said this to me,
Speaker 2: but it's something that's lived with me for I think
Speaker 2: just a few years. But if you're wearing the best
Speaker 2: soccer cleats on the on the field, you better be
Speaker 2: the best player. Yeah, Ashley Dalton said this to me.
Speaker 3: That's what it is.
Speaker 2: If you have the best fucking most expensive cleats, you
Speaker 2: better be amazing at soccer. Yeah, this bitch talking shit.
Speaker 2: I doubt she was even good.
Speaker 1: It was just weird because she just said it like
Speaker 1: two or three times, like wait, none, And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I have other dance experience, but I don't
Speaker 1: have tap experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Have you been to a wedding with Kara Klank?
Speaker 3: She knows how to dance.
Speaker 1: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Wait? Should should I come with that other mom and
Speaker 2: watch you guys?
Speaker 3: That would be so funny.
Speaker 1: I would love to come watch it's funny. The problem
Speaker 1: is is that, well, first of all, you can just watch.
Speaker 1: It's literally on a busy street in our neighborhood and
Speaker 1: there's a window to the street, so like anyone can
Speaker 1: go by and just see what we're doing, which is embarrassing,
Speaker 1: but I kind of forgot about.
Speaker 2: I want to go a day when it's raining and
Speaker 2: then I'll just stand out there with an umbrella watching
Speaker 2: you guys.
Speaker 3: In my raincoat.
Speaker 1: How cinematic. But the only problem is, like the floor
Speaker 1: is obviously used for other dance classes like ballet and
Speaker 1: other kinds, so it's not as tippity tappity as I
Speaker 1: want it to be.
Speaker 3: I want it to be like a wood floor, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. It's not wood. No, And you
Speaker 3: can't hear your ticky you know what? What is it?
Speaker 3: Because I thought ballet was wood. I'm confused.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like it just has like a protective like
Speaker 1: some kind of plasticy thick I can't describe bit.
Speaker 3: But you can kind of hear your tap.
Speaker 1: It's just not the same as like on wood, you know.
Speaker 1: And you could tell the teacher was disappointed about that too.
Speaker 3: Have you been practicing at the house.
Speaker 1: Well, it was only last night, so I haven't been
Speaker 1: practicing my combo.
Speaker 3: Sorry. Maybe if we all get.
Speaker 1: Together, Lauren, get some wine in me and Lauren, and
Speaker 1: then we'll do our little combination for you that we learned.
Speaker 2: My mom's text it's Elan's birthday. Yeah, I fucking know, bitch. No,
Speaker 2: that was nice of her. Happy birthday to my brother
Speaker 2: in law, the only good man I know. And it's
Speaker 2: Sydney Washington's birthday. Okay, I mean, now you know when
Speaker 2: we taped it, you don't even know it.
Speaker 1: I don't think I know anyone who loves their brother
Speaker 1: in law like you like your love your brother in law.
Speaker 3: You really love your brother in law. I do.
Speaker 2: But I also met him when he was fifteen and
Speaker 2: I was five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were like, yeah, you've known him your whole life.
Speaker 2: So he's forty five now, so I've known him since
Speaker 2: he was a teenager.
Speaker 3: So it's a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not twenty five and meeting some man
Speaker 2: that she met, right, you know, a bar and.
Speaker 1: Regally I've imagined little Lisa a five and you've seen
Speaker 1: the pure being, like, I need to ask you some
Speaker 1: questions before you date my sister. And you give him
Speaker 1: like the run around. You're like, what time you can
Speaker 1: have a home.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if you if I've already said
Speaker 2: this on the pod. No, he would come over. He
Speaker 2: would give me donuts and then put on the quote
Speaker 2: unquote Snowy channel, which was just static on the TV.
Speaker 2: But I was like, oh my god, the Snowy Channel.
Speaker 2: And I would sit eating donuts while god knows what
Speaker 2: was happening in our bedroom slash dining room watching.
Speaker 3: This watching static. I cannot. I don't think you've mentioned that,
Speaker 3: because that is not something I remember. Oh my god. No,
Speaker 3: he was good. But he was a good guy. He
Speaker 3: he he had a red jeep.
Speaker 2: He took me to see Andre at the movie theater
Speaker 2: with just me and him and his brother, like he
Speaker 2: would legit, like hang out with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like your like your brother Like, yeah, he.
Speaker 2: Would like he he takes my dad to doctor's appointments.
Speaker 3: He just kind of is like this. He's always been
Speaker 3: kind of a good guy.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe there's someone trapped in the basement, but
Speaker 2: I've spent a lot of time in there.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: And I love my brother in law too. It's just
Speaker 1: you speak so highly of Elan.
Speaker 3: It's very nice. It's very nice.
Speaker 2: Well, because I also know how annoying my parents are,
Speaker 2: and none of us are as nice to my parents
Speaker 2: as him. He really goes above and beyond for these annoying,
Speaker 2: annoying immigrants. But oh, I just thought of something I
Speaker 2: have to tell you after this.
Speaker 3: You gotta FaceTime me. Sorry, guys, you can't. You can't
Speaker 3: know all the shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have something I want to ask you about too.
Speaker 2: Oh perfect, So wait, I do have some notes. I
Speaker 2: do have some things that I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 1: Analisa has already told us to wrap it up, and
Speaker 1: Lisa's like, okay, let me get into our agenda quick.
Speaker 2: It's honestly quick. First, I've been watching Girl in the
Speaker 2: Window alone on the.
Speaker 3: I want to watch it. It's funny. I like it.
Speaker 3: I do like it.
Speaker 2: I think I realized that genre now because sometimes I
Speaker 2: get auditions for things that are like funny, but everything
Speaker 2: is serious and I don't understand it. Yeah, and watching
Speaker 2: this like I finally understand the tone of acting fully
Speaker 2: in a thing that's like not.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I thought it was great.
Speaker 1: Is it kind of the tone of that like Kristin
Speaker 1: Wig Will Ferrell Lifetime movie that was like a parody
Speaker 1: of a Lifetime movie, but it was.
Speaker 3: On I think it was on Lifetime. No, are you
Speaker 3: thinking about the Amy Polar Romantic One or no?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, No, this was like a christ was
Speaker 1: like a parody, wasn't it Will Ferrell and Kristin Wig.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: So if you guys are into like a crime moment,
Speaker 2: that's silly but serious.
Speaker 3: And Kristen Bell is just an incredible actress. Oh and
Speaker 3: I just a deadly adoption. I've never even heard of that.
Speaker 1: Oh, it was like a funny thing. And it's Will Ferrell, right,
Speaker 1: am I crazy? Okay? Yeah, it's Will Fail Kristen Wig
Speaker 1: and like so the vibe of it was very serious,
Speaker 1: over serious, like a lifetime movie. But then it was
Speaker 1: supposed to be comedy. So I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1: I really want to see this. I didn't know it
Speaker 1: was a show. I thought it was a movie. So
Speaker 1: I went with Jared to watch it the other day
Speaker 1: and we didn't realize it was a movie a show.
Speaker 1: And he needed to watch a movie because he gives
Speaker 1: himself these movie challenges every month. We watched West Side Story.
Speaker 1: We couldn't finish it. It was too boring, the new
Speaker 1: or old the new too boring. I was like, this
Speaker 1: is not it's beautiful, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: It didn't do well, and that's what's tough about award
Speaker 2: show season, where it's like I get that, like the
Speaker 2: normal public might not get like great performances or details
Speaker 2: of movie making, but for something that no one watched
Speaker 2: or cared about to then be winning awards, and it's
Speaker 2: that's why we're not interested. Yeah, that's the disconnect, Like
Speaker 2: how is this winning anything?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like I love West Side Story, I
Speaker 1: love the music, I love like the story. I love it,
Speaker 1: but I liked the old movie and this doesn't really
Speaker 1: add anything to it. I think that main actor is
Speaker 1: like a snooze angel el Gort, And I just was like,
Speaker 1: whatever I did, it was beautiful. If people are gonna
Speaker 1: come for me, I will admit it's like gorgeous Spielberg
Speaker 1: obviously beautiful. I just halfway through, I was on my phone,
Speaker 1: and I will I usually don't do that, but I
Speaker 1: was just like, I was like randomly looking up actors
Speaker 1: from the movie, and then I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: getting into other stuff and it.
Speaker 3: Was not holding my attention anyway.
Speaker 1: What else did you have?
Speaker 3: Anything else? Oh?
Speaker 2: Tricksy and Katia did queens who liked to watch with
Speaker 2: squid games? Because I didn't want to watch squid games.
Speaker 2: I don't love dystopia, but watching them talk about squid games.
Speaker 3: I loved it.
Speaker 2: And then I read everything about it and all the
Speaker 2: plot points and it seems really good. Oh I watched
Speaker 2: all the squid game It's awesome. Yeah, with the what
Speaker 2: I read.
Speaker 1: Okay, so watching it through the eyes of these two
Speaker 1: drag queens, it was amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you know, we h there was a news story
Speaker 2: about nurses selling fake vaccine cards and they made over
Speaker 2: one point five million dollars.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the thing that I want to focus on, just
Speaker 2: really quickly is that one of the people, she was
Speaker 2: a nurse practitioner. It's not like some poor nurse like
Speaker 2: this woman is a rich person. She is also married
Speaker 2: to an NYPD officer. So one of the criminals is
Speaker 2: married to an officer and he is getting in trouble
Speaker 2: because he was part of it. So he's being investigated
Speaker 2: if he was funneling business his wife's way. He only
Speaker 2: lost five vacation days in twenty twenty after he was
Speaker 2: accused of piloting an NYPD spyplane on a penis shaped
Speaker 2: flight path. In twenty seventeen, when he was a member
Speaker 2: of the department's aviation unit. He was assigned to Brooklyn's
Speaker 2: sixtieth Precinct after he was accused of misusing the federally
Speaker 2: funded four million dollars Cesana plane, making improper entries in
Speaker 2: a flight log, and not conducting flight surveys.
Speaker 1: Okay, are we like, is this a Banana's podcast crossover?
Speaker 1: Like we need to send a story to Bananas? Like
Speaker 1: this is that is quite literally Banana Like that is crazy?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And then there was a post secret this week of
Speaker 2: one of the secrets was along the lines of my
Speaker 2: husband is in jail for murder and I will never
Speaker 2: leave him. Oh wow, So that obviously made me think
Speaker 2: of all of you. Also, I knew some of you
Speaker 2: would not like the Scott Peterson take, and then some
Speaker 2: of you just innocuously commented your points of view, and
Speaker 2: I attacked you viciously.
Speaker 3: And I apologize now, I was just responding.
Speaker 2: I just don't like being condescended at or that I
Speaker 2: didn't know that it was biased, or that I didn't
Speaker 2: use other sources, or that I'm not open to be
Speaker 2: proven wrong or.
Speaker 1: So like like to just to clarify, I mean, we're
Speaker 1: a comedy podcast, like we want to give you the
Speaker 1: information about the crimes. But if you're expecting the same,
Speaker 1: you know, like thorough journalism of a twenty twenty, there's
Speaker 1: twenty twenty you know, like that's not what you're hopefully,
Speaker 1: that's not what you're here for, you know, like we are.
Speaker 1: We really try to be thorough and do the best
Speaker 1: we can, but we're also putting it into a what
Speaker 1: we attempt to be a thirty minute slot.
Speaker 2: And it's like, you know, most people were into it
Speaker 2: and they get us and they like us. But the
Speaker 2: people that were disappointed it was this thing of like
Speaker 2: I did do over twenty hours of research actually, and
Speaker 2: if you have information on Lacy, please send it my way,
Speaker 2: like I would love it. I could not find it,
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't go to the line, so like
Speaker 2: I would love this information. We always are trying our best.
Speaker 2: There's no reason to be condescending of like did you
Speaker 2: even now that? Yeah, we are very into what we do.
Speaker 2: But also I you know, when people are like it's
Speaker 2: not a great look, it's like, yeah, I think she
Speaker 2: was dumb that she didn't know about the biggest crime
Speaker 2: case in the world, in the in the nation for
Speaker 2: two weeks.
Speaker 3: I think that's wild to.
Speaker 2: Ignore every news, every newspaper, and every magazine at the store.
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like Jared Letto being at a
Speaker 2: silent retreat and then coming out and be like, wait,
Speaker 2: what's COVID? You know, it's like, Okay, this is a
Speaker 2: little silly, but yeah, no, you guys are allowed to
Speaker 2: say whatever you want. And I try not to get involved,
Speaker 2: but you know, sometimes.
Speaker 1: It actually just texts me her opinions. Okay, let's get started.
Speaker 1: We have a hot episode for you today, a very
Speaker 1: hot interview, and I'm excited to get hi.
Speaker 3: To everyone I met in Kansas.
Speaker 2: Thank you for all your presence, your weed, your nice compliments,
Speaker 2: and you're being such great audience members, sweet sweet angels.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get started. Okay, we are doing Justice season three,
Speaker 1: episode nineteen. An early Guy, one.
Speaker 2: Of my favorites, and I feel like I didn't know
Speaker 2: the name of it. I couldn't find it for forever,
Speaker 2: and then it came to me on a binge and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, thank goodness, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: want to do this episode.
Speaker 1: It's another one of those ones where like it doesn't
Speaker 1: stick out for me, but I know I've seen it
Speaker 1: and you love it, so I'm just happy to do it.
Speaker 1: And it's such a good one, so I'm happy we
Speaker 1: chose it. We open on a scene honestly tailor made
Speaker 1: for me. Two movers moving a couch and talking about
Speaker 1: MLMs and Ponzi schemes. I love this so much. One
Speaker 1: guy is clearly like telling the other guy like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you tell two friends. Then they tell two like it's
Speaker 1: a full describing a Ponzi scheme, and the other guy's like, dude,
Speaker 1: this is like not real. And the other man's like,
Speaker 1: please urba life is good to make me rich and
Speaker 1: it's just really funny, and the other guy's like it's
Speaker 1: a definite scam. And the guy's like, no, my cousin
Speaker 1: did it and made money. And the guy goes, who's
Speaker 1: your cousin Kenneth Lay, which is a reference to Enron,
Speaker 1: And I just really want to get a beer with
Speaker 1: this smoover because he's very snarky, Andy's up to date
Speaker 1: on current events.
Speaker 3: Did you look it up or did you know this
Speaker 3: Enron guy? I was like, who's Kenneth Lay?
Speaker 1: And they it sounded familiar and I looked it up
Speaker 1: and it was I looked it up. Obviously I'm not
Speaker 1: familiar with ins and OU's of Enron, but I did.
Speaker 1: I did track down the contact.
Speaker 2: Well, Henron is very Connecticut, so maybe you knew in deep.
Speaker 1: And deep in my mind, in my soul, it was there.
Speaker 1: So like this reference goes over the other mover's head.
Speaker 1: Of course he's like, no, my cousin's name is Johnny
Speaker 1: or whatever, like it's very funny. And then as they're
Speaker 1: taking the couch down the stairs, they noticed the body
Speaker 1: of like a teen girl in a Catholic school like
Speaker 1: plaid skirt outfit, just fully bleeding out at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the stairs.
Speaker 3: So not a great fight. Now we're at the hospital.
Speaker 1: Live storms in with her super short pixie cut, I
Speaker 1: think the one that she almost got fired or she
Speaker 1: thought she was gonna get fired for. And all they
Speaker 1: know is that this girl is like a teen there's
Speaker 1: no info on who she is. She like has no
Speaker 1: idea on her and apparently all she said at the
Speaker 1: scene was he raped me. Then the docs are like
Speaker 1: going crazy, the doctors and nurses like everyone's trying to
Speaker 1: save her life, you know, like she's got a neck brace,
Speaker 1: like I mean, it's like she's been very badly injured
Speaker 1: and they're trying to save her life and they're talking
Speaker 1: about all the lacerations she has and it's like very go, go, go,
Speaker 1: go go. But Benson is being like very Benson and
Speaker 1: is like, you gotta preserve the clothes. This is a
Speaker 1: rat victim. And then she follows them into the or
Speaker 1: they're like, we got we gotta operate. She follows them
Speaker 1: into the oar with like a bunch of swabs and
Speaker 1: is like, just get her vagina, just get her mouth.
Speaker 1: Can you get that stain on her thigh. It's very
Speaker 1: I mean, it's obviously serious. You do want to preserve evidence,
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of like, I think priority number
Speaker 1: one is that she lives and live is just like
Speaker 1: going after them with like swabs, and then they're like,
Speaker 1: we just get one more of under her fingernails, and
Speaker 1: the nurse is.
Speaker 3: Like, bitch, we've done given you enough. Get away from me.
Speaker 1: And then like back at the nurse's desk, Live is
Speaker 1: scrambling to get all the clothes and swab sent to
Speaker 1: the lab with a uniform cop and Stabler shows up
Speaker 1: and is like, sorry, babe, she didn't make it. She
Speaker 1: died on the table. And Olivia immediately is like, oh no,
Speaker 1: like I got in the way, I made her die,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, Nana, she had like a clot, massive
Speaker 1: internal bleeding. There was nothing you could do. You're not
Speaker 1: on the hook for this. So then lives like okay
Speaker 1: and goes back into like cop mode, and Stabler found
Speaker 1: a bottle of percocets on the girl and the bottle
Speaker 1: says Emily Porter. So they think this girl's Emily Porter
Speaker 1: and they're off to notify her parents. A teen answers
Speaker 1: the door and she's like, are you here for the condolences?
Speaker 1: My grandma died last night, And immediately you're kind of like,
Speaker 1: oh ouch, this family's about to get a double dose
Speaker 1: of tragedy. And then the mom comes to the door
Speaker 1: and they're like, are you the mother of Emily Porter?
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, I'm Emily Porter. Dunt done credits,
Speaker 1: So immediately what's happening? Love?
Speaker 3: When they tell the wrong person? I love? They Oh
Speaker 3: my god, she's a lot.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I love. Just go back to missing
Speaker 1: your grandma. You can just go back to the Shiva
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: No, no, because this bitch is obviously doing something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the teen is up to no good? How did ever
Speaker 2: get these pills?
Speaker 3: The teen is up to no good.
Speaker 1: So basically wrapping up this little storyline with the Porter family,
Speaker 1: the daughter who answered the door stole her mom's pills
Speaker 1: and sold them to some dude in the skateboard park
Speaker 1: who she said, will buy anything from anyone's like medicine cabinet.
Speaker 1: So nobody in the house like actually knows who this
Speaker 1: dead girl is. But that's how we get to the pills.
Speaker 1: So now at the park, Finn Zero's in on the
Speaker 1: dealer named Doc and he is played by Exciting for
Speaker 1: only me on this podcast, a guy named Jamie Hector,
Speaker 1: who is the second on the call sheet in Bosh, Oh,
Speaker 1: Bosh's partner. He is a very great actor. I really
Speaker 1: love him. And in Bosh, she has a big scar
Speaker 1: on his face and he didn't in this show, and
Speaker 1: I was I always assume it was like a real scar,
Speaker 1: but maybe they like put the scar on his face
Speaker 1: every day. Anyway, Ice tries to score from him and
Speaker 1: they have this funny combo and then he flashes his
Speaker 1: badge like what about this? And then the guy tries
Speaker 1: to run away, Ice grabs him. It's all very comical.
Speaker 2: Well, and he's probably so young in this was that
Speaker 2: wild for you that you were like, hey, I know
Speaker 2: you because this was way before Bosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. He looks really young, and I'm
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, I'm glad you were like working
Speaker 1: it for so long and then Bosh worked out for
Speaker 1: you, you know, like you've been at this since two thousand
Speaker 1: and two.
Speaker 3: He doesn't know who the girl is.
Speaker 1: He just said she came by at ten am to
Speaker 1: buy happy pills, and ice starts going. Finn starts going
Speaker 1: through his pockets and he's like a full Dwayne read
Speaker 1: like he just has all these like pills and poppers
Speaker 1: and all things in his in his pockets. And he
Speaker 1: says he doesn't really remember much about her. She was cute,
Speaker 1: and he remembers her going to the motel across the street,
Speaker 1: like this seedy place, and that she was wearing a black,
Speaker 1: shiny floppy hat. Love this detail now.
Speaker 2: This show, it's not shocking that I like it. It's
Speaker 2: a bingo of all of my favorite things. Yeah, look up,
Speaker 2: who bought this?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 2: I love that that's not my pills. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I just like I love every moment in this.
Speaker 1: This episode is so like it takes them. It takes
Speaker 1: them ten minutes just to get to the identity of
Speaker 1: the victim.
Speaker 2: This episode and another great scene. I mean just filled
Speaker 2: with great scenes. Yeah, it's just a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of detective works. And I love when the detectives
Speaker 2: like think it's their fault, when they're like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: my fault, and then they have to be like, it's
Speaker 2: not your fault, and it's like it could have been
Speaker 2: your fault.
Speaker 3: Like I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, live, you were really in the way, I guess
Speaker 1: also like it's not about you, Like, yeah, this says
Speaker 1: a definite drinking bingo episode if I've ever seen one, Yes, indeed,
Speaker 1: well yes for you specifically, there's a hot line in
Speaker 1: this episode.
Speaker 2: Oh I don't even know what you're you're talking about
Speaker 2: that you'll know when we get to it.
Speaker 3: The motel is.
Speaker 1: Like super disgusting. The guy at the front desk is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I saw this girl with some dude he signed
Speaker 1: the book, and like they look it up and he
Speaker 1: signed the book as Bend Dover, which is like Simpson's
Speaker 1: level funny, and then paid cash. So stay. They head
Speaker 1: upstairs and stablers like please tell me the room hasn't
Speaker 1: been cleaned and he's like, no, since nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 1: which is so disgusting. And in the room they find
Speaker 1: the sparkly hat and it says in the hat made
Speaker 1: exclusively for destination, so a hint. Now they I am
Speaker 1: obsessed for with when they go to like fancy hoity
Speaker 1: toity places and like Live knows how to hang and
Speaker 1: Stabler definitely doesn't at all, like it's my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: Like he's just like has no idea how like expensive
Speaker 1: shit works. And so they're at this expensive boutique that
Speaker 1: seemingly sells like hats and purses and that's it. And
Speaker 1: then they get to the display and the sales girl
Speaker 1: is like, oh, these they're seven ninety five, and Stabler's like, oh,
Speaker 1: the only affordable thing in here, and it's like, dude,
Speaker 1: a baseball hat is more than seven ninety five, Like
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? So Live has to tell
Speaker 1: him it's seven hundred and ninety five, and Live winks
Speaker 1: at the girl.
Speaker 3: It's really funny. If you missed it, check it out.
Speaker 1: She does a little wink to the salesgirl like sorry
Speaker 1: for my dumb ass boy, like guy friend here and
Speaker 1: so yeah, I just like when liv gets to be
Speaker 1: sophisticated and stunt on Stabler because he only knows about
Speaker 1: like Catholic schools and the Rockaways. So she looks up
Speaker 1: the hat and she the sales girl and she's like, actually,
Speaker 1: we haven't sold any.
Speaker 3: Of these yet.
Speaker 1: So they're like, okay, maybe this is a shoplifting situation.
Speaker 1: In the back room, there's like a sassy mail manager
Speaker 1: who thanks them for catching a shoplifter and they have
Speaker 1: like a full polaroid book of shoplifters, which I was like,
Speaker 1: that must be humiliating, like you get caught, and then
Speaker 1: they're like, we're taking your picture so we can recognize
Speaker 1: you next time you come in.
Speaker 3: Well, it's very Empire Records.
Speaker 2: Yeaesh is an important movie to me, but very important.
Speaker 1: Every day should be Rex Manning day. I used to
Speaker 1: shoplift a lot, how about you.
Speaker 2: I would say I definitely shoplifted, but it wasn't my
Speaker 2: number one hobby.
Speaker 3: Well I'm not saying it wasn't for me.
Speaker 1: I wasn't varsity shoplifted.
Speaker 2: Well no, I had some friends in high school that
Speaker 2: like they would go to Nordstrom and the BP section
Speaker 2: try on tons of stuff, layer it on and walk
Speaker 2: out like.
Speaker 3: They were really yeah.
Speaker 2: And then one time I was with them and she
Speaker 2: took underwear from limited to and the sales girl like
Speaker 2: ran out and was like give it back, which is
Speaker 2: against all rules. You're not supposed to, Like, I think
Speaker 2: stores aren't allowed to tell you that you're shoplifting, because
Speaker 2: if you're wrong, it's fucked up. Like most stores are
Speaker 2: not allowed to approach someone even if you see someone's shoplifting.
Speaker 2: So I can't believe she ran out, but she must
Speaker 2: have been having a bad day. But you know, I
Speaker 2: would take a lipsmacker here and there. The guy from
Speaker 2: Walgreens was suspicious, but I got away with it. Some
Speaker 2: candy at Aj'smart, but nothing too.
Speaker 1: I used to steal clothes from the gap, but like
Speaker 1: stuff that wasn't clicked on with the clicker, but it was.
Speaker 1: I would only steal from large corporations where I would
Speaker 1: never steal from like a small shop where someone was
Speaker 1: like it was their livelihood, you know, And I would
Speaker 1: just bring in a shopping bag.
Speaker 3: And I worked in retails.
Speaker 1: I would like fold clothes and stuff and then I
Speaker 1: would just like fold it and like drop it into
Speaker 1: my shopping bag and no one like noticed. I was, wow,
Speaker 1: I was pretty slick at it. But I never knock
Speaker 1: on wood. I never got caught, and I don't recommend it.
Speaker 1: It's bad. I just was like I work all the time.
Speaker 1: I worked, and was like, I still can't afford new clothes,
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm taking zone.
Speaker 2: So yeah, there must be some sort of something science
Speaker 2: psychology of why teen girls love to see I'm sure
Speaker 2: boys do it too, but it's not just necessity. We
Speaker 2: both grew up in like well off suburbs or whatever.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I am curious.
Speaker 3: What is it? Just the thrill?
Speaker 2: You just want the lipsmack like I wonder what it is,
Speaker 2: because it is, you know.
Speaker 1: It was like I wanted the clothes, and like my
Speaker 1: mom my parents like wouldn't I mean, I was like
Speaker 1: I did grow up in like an affluent town, but
Speaker 1: I was one of six kids. My mom wasn't like,
Speaker 1: let's go on a shopping spree every day, you know,
Speaker 1: and like all the girls in my town were so
Speaker 1: rich and had cool clothes. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: want a new sweater from the gap, and my mom
Speaker 1: won't buy it for me. So I got to figure
Speaker 1: out my own way, and I don't recommend it. They
Speaker 1: find a picture of this girl in the book of shoplifters,
Speaker 1: which where my picture should exist. But and I actually
Speaker 1: never would steal from a store where stuff was so expensive.
Speaker 3: I was like pretty much Gap.
Speaker 1: But they find a picture of this girl, but she
Speaker 1: has no name on her picture.
Speaker 2: Huge jad for Gap, Gap should actually throw out some coins.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we said it like ten times.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm also like, Gap, easy to steal from, Okay,
Speaker 1: So he's like, of course, very SVU style. This guy
Speaker 1: goes mm hm, I remember this, like like I remember
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. I've got a book of shoplifters, but
Speaker 1: this one I remember specifically. He's like, I would have
Speaker 1: pressed charges, but like in his file there's nothing, Like
Speaker 1: they never sent the form that the cops are supposed
Speaker 1: to send when they take in a shoplifter. So like
Speaker 1: they're like, officer Slater picked her up and we never
Speaker 1: heard anything back. So now Finn goes and pays a
Speaker 1: visit to Officer Slater, who is just straight up snoozeen
Speaker 1: in his cop car on what looks like the West
Speaker 1: Side Highway but could also be Left Yard.
Speaker 2: I mean and it's supposed to show like, oh, look
Speaker 2: at this guy sleeping on the job, but it's like,
Speaker 2: I'd rather police be sleeping than shoe, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, you take a nap.
Speaker 3: They are like giving people tickets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he shows him the polaroid and he goes,
Speaker 1: this girl pulled a Winona a Destination two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and it's like lol, but also like, will Winona writer
Speaker 1: ever live that down? I mean, people still like think
Speaker 1: of her just as a shoplifter and it's really not
Speaker 1: that huge of a crime.
Speaker 3: You know, no, didn't.
Speaker 2: She just kind of like she has had an off
Speaker 2: day or two.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it happens. It happens.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is also two thousand and two, so
Speaker 1: it's probably more fresh. I forget what year she got busted,
Speaker 1: but it is more fresh. So but I like that
Speaker 1: he fin's pulling out the pop culture refs and he
Speaker 1: said he said she wouldn't give up her name, and
Speaker 1: so they gave her a desk appearance ticket. I don't
Speaker 1: really know what this the desk appearance thing means, but
Speaker 1: I think you kind of get the idea from context.
Speaker 1: But so Benson and Stabler are at the desk appearance
Speaker 1: ticket office, asking this lady who has very like Working
Speaker 1: Girl vibes to me, like her hair, not Working Girl
Speaker 1: like a sex worker, like the movie Working Girl, Like
Speaker 1: she just has big hair and seems over it.
Speaker 3: You know, do you see Working.
Speaker 2: Girl curls, redhair curls. No, it's actually fucked up. I
Speaker 2: haven't seen Working Girl or nine to five, and I
Speaker 2: think I should do, like, yeah, like a Lil Moating movie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to, but you know, when there's pressure, like
Speaker 2: you haven't seen something in a while and you want
Speaker 2: to see nine to five, but it has to be
Speaker 2: the right moment because it's on Delta flights right now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it would be easy to watch it, but that's not
Speaker 2: the vibe I want for a movie like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so that's always hard to like find the right
Speaker 2: moment where you're like, I'm gonna really watch nine to
Speaker 2: five today. So yeah, it's took a movie with too much.
Speaker 3: Pressure on it for me. Okay, well I'll watch it eventually.
Speaker 1: Happy to watch Working Girl with you too, because that's
Speaker 1: actually closer to my heart than nine to five. But
Speaker 1: they're both classics. So Benson and Stabler are like, can
Speaker 1: you pull the ticket for Patricia Stevens with a pH
Speaker 1: and the lady looks for like a second, well, actually,
Speaker 1: when they first say her name, she looks kind of
Speaker 1: shocked at them, and then she goes over to the
Speaker 1: filing cabinet is like no, I don't see it, and
Speaker 1: then she's like really blowing them off super hard, and
Speaker 1: they're like can you check a different spelling and she's
Speaker 1: like no, actually I can't. I gotta go. Like it's
Speaker 1: very like she's not willing to help, and liv is like, hey, honey,
Speaker 1: this girl's dead and we'd love to notify her family,
Speaker 1: so if you could just like open another filing cabinet
Speaker 1: and get us the info, that would be sweet.
Speaker 3: And the woman is.
Speaker 1: Like, Patricia's dead, Okay, suddenly you know her? Like who
Speaker 1: is she in?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: And I love the Benson response.
Speaker 2: She's just like that's what we spent this whole miserable
Speaker 2: day trying to find out.
Speaker 1: And I just like love the line reading yeah, because
Speaker 1: the lady goes, you don't know who she is, do you?
Speaker 1: And Benson's like, please do anything, just tell me. And
Speaker 1: it turns out that she is the daughter of a
Speaker 1: judge named Judge Thornberg Judge Walter Thornburg. So back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, Stabler goes, why does it have to be
Speaker 1: the stepdaughter of a hanging judge? Which I looked up
Speaker 1: and it obviously refers to judges who used to give
Speaker 1: hanging sentences, but it can also refer to a judge
Speaker 1: who gives harsh sentences, so it's like a harsh judge.
Speaker 1: I would say all of her taff Judge Taft probably
Speaker 1: a hanging judge. They go and tell Cragan and he's like,
Speaker 1: I know Walt, Like we have a history, like we
Speaker 1: went to the same college. I see him at events
Speaker 1: all the time, but I didn't even know he had
Speaker 1: a daughter. And they're like, well it was his stepdaughter.
Speaker 1: Cabot chills up like out of breath.
Speaker 3: And she's like, so it's true.
Speaker 1: And then she's like this is huge. The DA is
Speaker 1: gonna want to know where we are on this every
Speaker 1: step of the way. And then Craigan's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go tell the family. So now we're at this super
Speaker 1: nice apartment brownstone situation, and Craigan shows up and sees
Speaker 1: Judge Thornberg's wife Brooke with her two little boys and
Speaker 1: she looks so happy to see Captain Craigan.
Speaker 3: She's like, done, how are you? What's going on?
Speaker 1: And this is actress Valerie Mahefi. I think is how
Speaker 1: you say her name. And she has been in a
Speaker 1: ton of shit. I don't know if you've seen her
Speaker 1: and stuff, Lisa, if you recognize her from anything, but
Speaker 1: she does have eighty seven credits on her shoe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's just in a show I watch called Big Sky.
Speaker 1: If you watch Dead to Me, she plays Christina Applegate's
Speaker 1: mother in law who like harasses her all the time.
Speaker 2: And she was in a Seinfeld No. I think she's
Speaker 2: the pretentious date of George.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Patrece Patrice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's the pretentious one and she has like
Speaker 2: chopsticks in her hair, and she was supposed to help
Speaker 2: like Jerry with taxes, but then George is like you
Speaker 2: fucking suck and then yeah, whatever.
Speaker 3: She's great.
Speaker 1: She's like I mean, she's a redhead, so she kind
Speaker 1: of sticks out to you and like she was in
Speaker 1: Desperate Housewives, Like I think she plays Kyle McLaughlin's first
Speaker 1: wife or something.
Speaker 2: What's amazing is she looks equal parts good and bad,
Speaker 2: like she could be a dark, twisted bitch and not likable,
Speaker 2: but she also just looks like a likable.
Speaker 1: A sweet suburb woman. Yes, so completely cool. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: very cool that she's very versatile like that, and in fact,
Speaker 1: she plays a very fucked up character in Big Sky
Speaker 1: so h a show that I randomly watch and for me,
Speaker 1: just Seinfelt.
Speaker 3: We talk about so much of the New York Show.
Speaker 2: But Seinfeld is like, everyone got their start, I mean
Speaker 2: everyone incredible, Like you have to be Marish the best. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she's kind of like, what's going on? Don
Speaker 1: to Captain Craigan and then we cut to the next scene.
Speaker 1: She's crying, so like, the judge is there and he's like,
Speaker 1: why don't you go lay down? But then he starts
Speaker 1: to give them some info and the wife is like,
Speaker 1: Craigan starts to give them more info, and the wife
Speaker 1: is just getting more and more upset, so she she leaves.
Speaker 1: They're like, does Brook have to be there here for this?
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, of course not. So she goes
Speaker 1: to I don't know, take a sedative and then the
Speaker 1: judge is like, we can drop the we can drop
Speaker 1: the act. Now this girl has been a problem child
Speaker 1: since puberty, and it's like very weird, like how unaffected
Speaker 1: he is. Like it's like, yeah, okay, your daughter was trouble,
Speaker 1: but did you want her dead? Like it's just very
Speaker 1: strange how he's just like nothing shocks me anymore. It's
Speaker 1: like her death doesn't shock you. She's dead, okay. So
Speaker 1: like they he's like, we tried everything. We sent her
Speaker 1: to therapy, boarding school. She's been back from boarding school
Speaker 1: for a year, and she goes to Saint Monica's Monica.
Speaker 2: Is such a modern day that's a Saint there's a
Speaker 2: Saint Monica, Like this seems like such an eighties name.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Brooketts had gotten a phone call that
Speaker 1: morning that Patricia had ditched school right after roll call,
Speaker 1: and they're like, Truan sees how she's been torturing us
Speaker 1: for years before that, it was a piercing before that,
Speaker 1: it was a tattoo, okay whatever. Like these people seem
Speaker 1: a little bit square and like they can't handle like
Speaker 1: a regular teenager.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really sound like she's doing anything that crazy yet.
Speaker 1: So now we're at the lab with the very hot
Speaker 1: hot CSU tech Bert Trevor played by Daniel Sunjada who
Speaker 1: is explaining that her tattoos aren't gang related and that
Speaker 1: they found glass in her scalp that matched the broken
Speaker 1: beer bottle, and then he explains what happened like he's
Speaker 1: always very like, Okay, here's how it went down, Like
Speaker 1: he's very kind of like passionate about how he talks
Speaker 1: about the.
Speaker 2: Friend the other csu Tex should actually be quite jealous
Speaker 2: because he has the most.
Speaker 3: Stand out evidence for some reason.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's because of his sexy eyes, but I'm just
Speaker 2: paying attention more. But he's usually like putting a dead
Speaker 2: person's finger on a thumb, like he's always got the
Speaker 2: wild twist of how to get the.
Speaker 1: Evidence, and he seems like he might be somebody who
Speaker 1: uses more innovative tactics, like, for example, what happens next.
Speaker 1: First he explains that like through blood splatter, it looks
Speaker 1: like what happened when she was hit on the head
Speaker 1: with the beer bottle at the top of the stairs,
Speaker 1: then staggered backwards cartwheeled down the steps, like hitting her
Speaker 1: head at the bottom where she was unconscious for fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: because you can tell there's like a pool of blood.
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like, could you get a pringe off the
Speaker 1: broken bottle, and Bert Trevor's like, you bet I can
Speaker 1: if I fucking spend a million hours putting together a
Speaker 1: puzzle piece. So he takes us to his little lab
Speaker 1: of tricks and he shows us how he found a
Speaker 1: matching bottle to this bottle, filled it with plaster of Paris,
Speaker 1: and then and then he has this cast to use
Speaker 1: where he can rebuild the bottle that smacked Patricia around
Speaker 1: the mold, and Live is like, wow, there's like a
Speaker 1: thousand pieces. Here are you, psycho? And he's like, call
Speaker 1: you later when I figure it out.
Speaker 2: But I don't get why you can't just dust all
Speaker 2: the loose pieces, like you know what I mean to
Speaker 2: get a print. It's quicker to rebuild a bottle and
Speaker 2: dust for prints like it is.
Speaker 3: I don't trust it. It's wild.
Speaker 1: But maybe because like you need a full print like
Speaker 1: a partial, maybe won't couldn't be the perfect like the
Speaker 1: right idea. I don't know, I have no idea. But
Speaker 1: now they're at the Catholic School Saint Monica's.
Speaker 2: Skylar, Like I just was like, what, I didn't know
Speaker 2: there were Monicas in BC, But I guess his mother
Speaker 2: Teresa saint. I guess, ever, are saints just being born
Speaker 2: all the time? I guess school.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know about saints. I mean, I
Speaker 3: went to Hebrew school.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. But at the Catholic school, they
Speaker 1: are on a walk and talk with a nun who's like,
Speaker 1: Patricia was really, really smart, but she was hostile towards
Speaker 1: authority figures, not necessarily other kids, but authority figures. She
Speaker 1: would talk back, arrive late. And then we also noticed
Speaker 1: she was cutting and lives like, Hi, that's a cry
Speaker 1: for help. It's not like an annoying thing she's doing.
Speaker 1: So she kind of gives the nun a little bit
Speaker 1: of a what's up, bitch, keep your eyes open? And
Speaker 1: they say that she really only had one friend. So
Speaker 1: they go talk to this friend she's studying. She's like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe she's dead. She said, I never should
Speaker 1: have left Trish, and she's like, I never skipped school,
Speaker 1: but I went with Trish to destination and I didn't
Speaker 1: know she was going to steal. And when I found
Speaker 1: out that she was, I got out of there. So
Speaker 1: she feels bad, but she was trying like not to
Speaker 1: get in trouble. I guess, and she says, it explains
Speaker 1: that they've been friends since Trish came to the school.
Speaker 1: They both love the classics, Euripides, all these tragedies, et cetera.
Speaker 1: They're both very drawn to them, she says, and they
Speaker 1: go what about boyfriends? And she goes, Trisha never had
Speaker 1: a boyfriend, not really, and they're like, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: And she explained there were guys she wrote to and
Speaker 1: she didn't think her parents would understand. So all the
Speaker 1: letters came to my house and she's like, you know,
Speaker 1: she was doing God's work, reaching out to lost souls.
Speaker 1: And they're like, who is she writing to? And she
Speaker 1: does the big reveal prisoners. She was writing two convicts
Speaker 1: in jail, so they found a bunch of the letters
Speaker 1: in Trisha's school locker. She's been pen paling with five
Speaker 1: different convicts who all went away. Four of them went
Speaker 1: away for murder, one for manslaughter. Cragan brings the list
Speaker 1: to Cabot, and Cabot is like, look, three of your
Speaker 1: guys are in Attica, one is at Sing Sing, and
Speaker 1: one named Thomas Bird Gordon got out a week ago
Speaker 1: and he has sex abuse priors.
Speaker 2: And I'm like keeping her that's a fun the middle
Speaker 2: name they just added in there.
Speaker 1: It feels like a nickname or yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: because like later people are calling him bird and Birdie
Speaker 1: and shit. And then when Cabot's going through her very
Speaker 1: very old looking computer, she's like, look at this and
Speaker 1: shows Kragan Thornberg is the judge on all five of
Speaker 1: these cases, like why is this girl seeking out men
Speaker 1: that have her father?
Speaker 3: Her stepfather has convicted.
Speaker 1: So then they go.
Speaker 3: To talk to the Thornburghs again.
Speaker 1: They show up at their brownstone and he's been taken
Speaker 1: to the hospital because someone took a shot at him.
Speaker 1: So he's been shot, but he's alive and he's at
Speaker 1: the hospital. So now Live is at the hospital talking
Speaker 1: to Brook, the wife, and she explains like it's like
Speaker 1: she's doing a lot of talking and it's not really
Speaker 1: any information. She's basically like, I heard him get shot outside.
Speaker 1: I went outside and there he was shot. And he
Speaker 1: had been in court to clear his calendar so they
Speaker 1: had could make funeral arrangements for Trish. And she says
Speaker 1: he hasn't received any threats, like I'm sure there's plenty
Speaker 1: of people that don't like him because he's a judge,
Speaker 1: but like he hasn't we haven't received any specific like
Speaker 1: you know, menacing threats. And so they asked her, did
Speaker 1: you know about Trisha's pen palace situation? And she says
Speaker 1: she didn't and she doesn't know the name Thomas Gordon.
Speaker 1: So now this is I mean, honestly, so many locations,
Speaker 1: so many people. They're doing a lot of detective work.
Speaker 1: They go talk to Thomas Gordon's parole officer, and this
Speaker 1: guy's funny, he's very New York and he's like, this
Speaker 1: guy's got a faulty transmitter, Like he doesn't understand like
Speaker 1: girls say no yet no, and he hears yes. Like
Speaker 1: he's basically like, okay, yeah, you're describing like most rapists,
Speaker 1: I feel like, and he goes, but he'd never kill
Speaker 1: one of them, because I don't think he thinks of
Speaker 1: this guy as like a murderer. He's like, you went
Speaker 1: away for manslaughter for a bar fight where he severed
Speaker 1: a guy's carotid artery with a beer bottle. So things
Speaker 1: are kind of lining up here, like this guy doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like a premeditated murderer, but he does love to
Speaker 1: use a beer bottle when he's mad Gordon has been
Speaker 1: uh parole to his sister's place. And his sister and
Speaker 1: her husband runs a garage and so that's where he's
Speaker 1: been working and like living. So they go over there.
Speaker 1: The sister's like, what do you want with my brother?
Speaker 1: Like she's like leave him alone. He didn't do nothing.
Speaker 1: And then the husband is like, come on, this guy's
Speaker 1: a fucking worm. He showed up and asked for the
Speaker 1: morning off so we could get a piece of ass.
Speaker 1: He wasn't home last night. And the guy's just like
Speaker 1: fully throwing his brother in law the bus. He does
Speaker 1: not care, and.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure he's pissed that he has to like
Speaker 2: live with his brother in law.
Speaker 1: Now yeah, yeah, he's like, now I have this dirt
Speaker 1: bag around my house and like wasting time at my
Speaker 1: autobody place. And he's like, not only did he never
Speaker 1: come back to work, but he has my van. So
Speaker 1: now everybody's looking for a nineteen ninety seven forty one
Speaker 1: point fifty that this guy's very proud of himself because he.
Speaker 3: Like put flames on it and like men are so funny.
Speaker 1: So at the precinct they're all trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: like where this guy could be they check all his
Speaker 1: old They're like, go check out all of his old
Speaker 1: haunts or whatever. And the first place they go to
Speaker 1: is called Eager Beavers and it's a strip club, and
Speaker 1: I just think the name is kind of funny. So
Speaker 1: it's like a strip club on the Bowery or something,
Speaker 1: which I don't I don't know about two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: but there are no strip clubs on the Bowery right now.
Speaker 1: The bar manager tells liv oh, oh, Tommy Bird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he gets drunk and like, comes in here. The other
Speaker 1: night he tried to hump one of the strippers on
Speaker 1: the stage. Her name is Sheila. Sheila comes over and goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he wanted to like hook up. He asked to go
Speaker 1: meet him at a bar up the street, Falcones. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't go, So then they go check out Falcones.
Speaker 1: The van is right outside the bar, and for the
Speaker 1: sake of a forty to three minute television show, it
Speaker 1: is unlocked and there is a gun sitting right on
Speaker 1: the front seat because they got to get some shit moving.
Speaker 1: And the gun that they find is the exact type
Speaker 1: of gun used to shoot the judge. So inside the bar,
Speaker 1: people are still smoking because it's two thousand and two.
Speaker 1: Everyone's just sitting at the bar, puffing away. They find
Speaker 1: Tommy sitting there wasted, And if you recognize this guy,
Speaker 1: it's because he is a straight up SVU regular. Like,
Speaker 1: not only was he the prison guard Dad in Raw,
Speaker 1: the guy who paid someone to shoot his adoptive son
Speaker 1: for the insurance money, he was also parts on season
Speaker 1: one and season two, and then this is season three.
Speaker 1: Then he played a recurring character in four episodes of season.
Speaker 3: Fourteen, which I believe he.
Speaker 1: Played an Atlanta cop that was like trying to hook
Speaker 1: up with Rollins.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how we keep seeing him.
Speaker 1: So he's literally been on like seven or eight episodes
Speaker 1: of SVU, maybe nine.
Speaker 3: Legend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the actor's name is Mike Watford. Myk, very creative spelling, missus.
Speaker 3: I see your notes. I'm smiling. I see what's next.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, So they find this guy wasted, and
Speaker 1: as they're arresting him, we get a classic line that
Speaker 1: Liza literally has on a sweatshirt where Ice Tea says
Speaker 1: you have the right to remain silent and if you
Speaker 1: puke in my car, I'm gonna kill your ass.
Speaker 3: It's kind of iconic.
Speaker 1: So it is from this episode, and many of you
Speaker 1: have seen Liza on Instagram stories wearing truly a piece
Speaker 1: of art. So in interrogation with the Bird, they tell
Speaker 1: him like, we found your DNA, and Patricia like, you're like,
Speaker 1: you're going away for this. This is kind of open
Speaker 1: and shut, and he looks shocked when they tell him
Speaker 1: that she's dead. He's like no, no, no, He's like, look,
Speaker 1: he admits, I took a shot at the old man,
Speaker 1: but I didn't hurt the girl. I didn't even know
Speaker 1: they were related till yesterday. She's the one that wrote
Speaker 1: to me first. I'm just sitting in my set and
Speaker 1: her letters show up. I have the letters to prove it.
Speaker 1: And she wrote me promising me sex. She said she'd
Speaker 1: do whatever, blah blah blah. And then when they meet up,
Speaker 1: she suddenly has a headache and doesn't want to do it,
Speaker 1: but he was quote unquote past the point of no return,
Speaker 1: so he's, I guess got a boner, and so he
Speaker 1: says he seduced her and she finally like had sex
Speaker 1: with him, and then she asked him to kill her stepdad,
Speaker 1: the judge. So they're giving Daddy Cragan the rundown and
Speaker 1: he's like really not buying the bird story.
Speaker 3: He's like too closely to the case. He's too close
Speaker 3: to the case. He's way too close.
Speaker 1: And he's like, uh, we're listening to this drunk drunk
Speaker 1: ex con Why And it's like, well, the letters like
Speaker 1: don't specify anything about the judge or murder, but they
Speaker 1: do mention a favor over and over. But she says
Speaker 1: she has to tell him in person about the favor,
Speaker 1: and yeah, daddy's cramar really paper evidence. Yeah, and she
Speaker 1: told him. She actually also told him to destroy every letter,
Speaker 1: which he never did because I mean, he's a dirt bag,
Speaker 1: but at least she thought of it to say, please
Speaker 1: destroy this. So yeah, Daddy Craigs really doesn't want to
Speaker 1: hear any of this shit and lives like why would
Speaker 1: he make this up? Like he gets charged the same way,
Speaker 1: whether the girl put him up to shooting at the
Speaker 1: judge or whether he just shot at the judge on
Speaker 1: his own accord, So like why would he make all
Speaker 1: this shit up? And why would this girl hate her
Speaker 1: stepdad so much? Like, let's get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1: But Craigan's kind of like I'm closing my door, like
Speaker 1: I don't care, And of course Benson and Stabler are like,
Speaker 1: we love to keep digging. So now they go to
Speaker 1: Trisha's funeral. It's really sad. There's like nobody there. They
Speaker 1: go up to this woman that they think is Brooke
Speaker 1: with the two little boys because she's turned around, but
Speaker 1: when she flips forward it is Aaron Brook's sister and
Speaker 1: she is ready to spill that funeral tea honey. So
Speaker 1: Stabler goes onto daddy duty immediately and starts like playing
Speaker 1: with the boys so that liv can talk to Aaron,
Speaker 1: and she's basically like, here's the story. Brook's first husband
Speaker 1: abandoned them when Trish was five, so Brooke got a
Speaker 1: job as a court reporter. That's where she met the
Speaker 1: meal ticket and.
Speaker 3: She wasn't gonna let Trish fuck it up.
Speaker 1: And as soon as they shipped Tricia away, they got married,
Speaker 1: they adopted Brian, and they had Josh immediately after that
Speaker 1: instant new family and lives like well with Tricia tucked
Speaker 1: away at boarding school, and the sister's like, well, whoa,
Speaker 1: whoa Tricia never went to boarding school and she's like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand, where where did she go? And Aaron
Speaker 1: explains that he the judge, swore out a PINS petition
Speaker 1: on Tricia, which is a person in need of supervision
Speaker 1: when she was barely twelve years old, and had her
Speaker 1: sent to Kitty prison essentially, which is so fucked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because usually if you have family in the courts
Speaker 2: or connection to help get you out of stuff, yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't send you to kitty prison.
Speaker 3: So definitely like what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they go to they show you this place.
Speaker 1: You go there and it's like the farthest thing from
Speaker 1: a boarding school you could get. It's like looks very
Speaker 1: you know, sparse and like, and Finn is like, what's up,
Speaker 1: Like why would a rich girl be here?
Speaker 3: This is for inner city throwaways.
Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, that's a little harsh ie.
Speaker 3: I think they can hear you.
Speaker 1: And then the lady who's walking around with is like
Speaker 1: it is a little unusual. And he's like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what was Trisha like? And she's like, in three years,
Speaker 1: she never once opened up in therapy, but we suspected
Speaker 1: sexual abuse. And he's like why, and she starts listing
Speaker 1: this whole long list of symptoms like hypervigilance, exaggerated startle,
Speaker 1: response insomnia, never talking about the baby, nausea, poor appetsite,
Speaker 1: and Ice is like, hold up, hold up, hold up, baby,
Speaker 1: what are we talking about here? Like no one has
Speaker 1: mentioned a baby yet. So they go talk to Tricia's mom, Brooke,
Speaker 1: as she's loading her two little boys in the car,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, what's up. Why didn't you give
Speaker 1: us a heads up about your daughter's pregnancy when she
Speaker 1: was twelve years fucking old and pregnant And they're like,
Speaker 1: we know Brian as Tricia's son, and Brooke like tries
Speaker 1: to run away, like she doesn't want to talk to
Speaker 1: them anymore, and they're like, well, can you at least
Speaker 1: tell us who the father is? And she's like, Tricia
Speaker 1: told me she didn't even know who the father was.
Speaker 1: So that's how slutty my twelve year old daughter was
Speaker 1: that she doesn't even know the baby daddy. She was
Speaker 1: having that much sex at eleven. So now back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, Live discovers that Trisha's baby has the same
Speaker 1: birthday as baby Brian, and Craigan is like, well, Craigan's
Speaker 1: still making excuses for this guy. This is truly how
Speaker 1: men get away with things, is they have friends like Craigan,
Speaker 1: love Craigan, but in this episode he's literally just helping
Speaker 1: and enabling and offering privilege to his friend over and
Speaker 1: over again. And this is like how bad men keep
Speaker 1: doing bad things. And he's like, well, adopting your unwed
Speaker 1: daughter's baby isn't a crime, and it's like, well it
Speaker 1: is if you're the one who knocked her up. Done done,
Speaker 1: Like I had not even really come to that conclusion yet.
Speaker 1: So Cragan's like he's one of the most respected jurists
Speaker 1: in the state, and Cabots like he is the super
Speaker 1: he is super tough on child molesters, Like this doesn't
Speaker 1: really make sense, and it's like, yeah, it kind of does, though,
Speaker 1: and they're like, the only way to prove it is
Speaker 1: testing DNA. We have Tricia's DNA, we have Judge Thornberg's DNA.
Speaker 1: We just need little Brian's DNA. So Craigan leaves and
Speaker 1: Cabots like you better be right about this, and then
Speaker 1: the next scene amazing. It's Cabot and Judge Elizabeth Donnelly,
Speaker 1: the goat Judith Light and I love anytime that they
Speaker 1: have a little scene together, and she's like, you gotta
Speaker 1: be kidding me here. You have absolutely no proof that
Speaker 1: this dude was having sex with his stepdaughter, and you
Speaker 1: want to risk your career and mine over this. And
Speaker 1: Alex Cabot kind of goes off and she's like, a
Speaker 1: judge has used the power of the court to further
Speaker 1: his own agenda. If the light we shine on him
Speaker 1: isn't brighter than the light we shine in the public,
Speaker 1: then this bureau has no integrity. I want that on
Speaker 1: a sweatshirt. This resonates with Judes and she's like, look,
Speaker 1: God help you if you're wrong. But she's obviously going
Speaker 1: to sign the document to get the DNA test on
Speaker 1: the little boy. So then in the next scene, Daddy
Speaker 1: Craigan is visiting Judge Thornberg in the hospital. He's like
Speaker 1: lying in a bed, looking sad, empathetic, and they tell
Speaker 1: him like, you know, we ran a paternity test on
Speaker 1: Brian and he's yours, Walter, you rape that little girl.
Speaker 1: And the judge is like, don't ask me for an explanation.
Speaker 1: I've searched my soul and I can't find one. And
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, gross. Uh. Pragan's like, so you killed
Speaker 1: her and the judge is like, no, no, no, no, wait,
Speaker 1: Like I copped to the other part, but I am
Speaker 1: not I did not kill her. I was in chambers
Speaker 1: that day she was murdered. I have an alibi, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just rape my stepdaughter. I'm not a murderer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: dah crazy, I'm dying and relax.
Speaker 1: And it's like this is this brings up a little
Speaker 1: bit of like the Woody Allen of it all, But
Speaker 1: like I kind of there's is there any possibility that
Speaker 1: this guy only molested his stepdaughter one time, like a
Speaker 1: couple times or whatever, Like he's got to have other victims,
Speaker 1: Like if this is what you're into, this is what
Speaker 1: you're into, like this judge obviously, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: just feel like, if you looked into it, she's not
Speaker 1: the only victim.
Speaker 3: And it just.
Speaker 2: Seems really hard to date when you're a woman with children,
Speaker 2: because anyone could just be using you to.
Speaker 3: Molest your kids. Oh yeah, I just listened to it.
Speaker 2: This is actually happening about that where this woman thought
Speaker 2: her new husband was like cheating on her and she
Speaker 2: kept trying to figure stuff out and she couldn't find anything,
Speaker 2: and she like she was like, I know there's something there,
Speaker 2: and then found videos that he set up a hidden
Speaker 2: camera to tape her daughter showering, like he actually ended
Speaker 2: up going to jail.
Speaker 3: But it is this thing of like it's already hard
Speaker 3: enough and now yeah it's weird.
Speaker 2: Obviously there's good stepdads, but I right now I'm not
Speaker 2: trusting any of them, right right, Ugh, So so the
Speaker 2: Rosie Perez episode, you know, it's just like these stepdads
Speaker 2: are predators. Totally don't come for me. I hope you
Speaker 2: have great stepdads. I'm just saying yes, of course. It's
Speaker 2: like I never really thought about that as like a
Speaker 2: constant opt like thing that could happen until this podcast.
Speaker 3: I mean, it is kind of like a TV trope.
Speaker 1: The sketchy step dad is kind of like yeah, very
Speaker 1: n SVU but also other places.
Speaker 2: But and it's just sad when these people pick a strange,
Speaker 2: loose man they've known for a few years over their children,
Speaker 2: Like that is about right, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, like an episode we did in when we
Speaker 3: did name.
Speaker 1: A couple episodes back, like that woman was molested by
Speaker 1: her dad's boyfriend and then he would turned out to
Speaker 1: be a killer. So anyway, now we're at the lab
Speaker 1: with Bert Trevor and the bottle puzzle, and he has
Speaker 1: finished it and he's it's like kind of a comedic
Speaker 1: moment because he's like and just the last piece and
Speaker 1: they're like, come on, come on, come on, come on,
Speaker 1: come on. And he's like, now I just have to
Speaker 1: wait for it to completely dry, and they're like, dust
Speaker 1: it now, bitch. So he does it and right away
Speaker 1: a couple of big ass prints are right there, so
Speaker 1: they kind of seem like you might have been able
Speaker 1: to see them if you had just dusted the pieces
Speaker 1: like he's but you know, I think for the showmanship,
Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy that this guy assembled a fully
Speaker 1: broken bottle and it wasn't like a little beer bottle.
Speaker 2: It's like a four has lived in my memories for
Speaker 2: decades now, like this is this has been one of
Speaker 2: the pivotal moments of this show for me.
Speaker 3: Is this bottle? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And so now the going from one on scene to another,
Speaker 1: I really this last scene is great. Like it's like
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I love SVU. This is just
Speaker 1: such a good final scene. So like at the Judge's house,
Speaker 1: they confront Brooke and they're like, so you know what
Speaker 1: your husband did and immediately she's like, Tricia seduced him.
Speaker 1: And it's like these fucking moms who think that their
Speaker 1: eleven year old children are seducing grown men, Like I
Speaker 1: needed to hear that she was molested young and that
Speaker 1: this is just a cycle or something, because that's just
Speaker 1: so fucked up, or like you need a meal ticket
Speaker 1: that valut you need to live in a brownstone that badly,
Speaker 1: Like it's just so gross. Anyway, Brooks like she was
Speaker 1: very disturbed. Tricia wouldn't leave him alone, you know, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, she was just like eleven years old and
Speaker 1: so horny for your old ass judge husband. She just
Speaker 1: needed to get him in bed, and that's what happened,
Speaker 1: Like you're delusional. And then they're like, well, we found
Speaker 1: a fingerprint on the bottle that essentially killed your daughter
Speaker 1: and dunt, dun it was yours, and she at first
Speaker 1: denies it, but then like they present the whole scenario.
Speaker 1: They're like, so when the school called you, it was
Speaker 1: the last straw you went looking for her, you and
Speaker 1: she said, I thought it had to be drugs, And
Speaker 1: I went into her room and I found a slip
Speaker 1: of paper with like the hotel meeting place for where
Speaker 1: she was going to meet that guy. Doesn't that seems
Speaker 1: kind of sloppy of Patricia to be honest, Like she's
Speaker 1: writing like burn after reading and all this other shit,
Speaker 1: and now she's like just leaving slips of paper ceedy
Speaker 1: hotels where she's meeting men. Okay, Anyway, Brooke just knew
Speaker 1: that Patricia was going there to have sex, and I
Speaker 1: went there to save her, but it was too late.
Speaker 1: I saw her as she was leaving the hotel. I
Speaker 1: confronted her, and she just walked away, and she said
Speaker 1: I knew she'd been with the man who had gotten
Speaker 1: her pregnant. And then they're like, you followed her and
Speaker 1: she finally told you, and she just turned on me.
Speaker 1: Is what Brook says. She said, you want to know
Speaker 1: who the father is, it's your husband, and then Brook
Speaker 1: slapped her. Patricia pushed her mother, and then she says,
Speaker 1: I must have picked up the bottle. I don't real
Speaker 1: like she's acting like she was in a fog. She's
Speaker 1: like I hit her with it, and then she goes
Speaker 1: and she just gave me this look like I was
Speaker 1: the one who had betrayed her, and it's like you sick,
Speaker 1: sick fucking woman and that's dick Wolf Baby. It's kind
Speaker 1: of it's like a very fucked up episode, but a
Speaker 1: good one.
Speaker 2: Well because then I guess what happens to the kids now?
Speaker 2: Or is it just baby Brian or was there another one, because.
Speaker 1: Well the other one is their biological baby.
Speaker 2: But like daddy's going to jail for being a molester
Speaker 2: and mom's going to jail for murderer.
Speaker 1: So I guess maybe they go to Aaron. Maybe they'll
Speaker 1: go to Aunt Aaron. She seemed nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hopefully, Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very interested and intrigued. Knowing nothing of the
Speaker 1: crime this is derived from, so great, take me on
Speaker 1: a ride, Lisa.
Speaker 2: So this crime was really excited, you know, I really
Speaker 2: wanted to do this episode so badly, and we like
Speaker 2: didn't know if it was based on something, and then
Speaker 2: we found that it is based on something, and wildly.
Speaker 2: I was just on my friend Steve Fury's podcast called
Speaker 2: World on Drugs, and I was a guest on his
Speaker 2: podcast when we.
Speaker 3: Talked about this crime.
Speaker 2: So if you want to check out more of the
Speaker 2: conspiracy theories and like the background of all of this,
Speaker 2: you can check out World on Drugs.
Speaker 3: It was a three part episode he had.
Speaker 2: We think we have long ones, but he had to
Speaker 2: kind of into three episodes and whatever. So it would
Speaker 2: be weird if I didn't give a shout out that
Speaker 2: I just kind of learned a lot about this case
Speaker 2: from Stephen.
Speaker 3: Now, I don't know.
Speaker 2: If he has to do credible sources, but we do
Speaker 2: so a lot of a lot of the like wild
Speaker 2: conspiracy of it all is The New York Times is
Speaker 2: not writing about that, so I'll touch on it, but
Speaker 2: we're going to stick to the case. So about this case,
Speaker 2: the Assistant United States like district attorney or whatever at
Speaker 2: the time, he was the chief prosecutor in this case,
Speaker 2: and his closing arguments, Ray John said, this is a
Speaker 2: story of fear, a story of greed, and a story
Speaker 2: of murder.
Speaker 3: So that's exciting. And a lot of people who were involved.
Speaker 2: With this they kept saying like, this is a giant
Speaker 2: attack on our justice system, but no one believes in
Speaker 2: our justice system, so I don't whatever. It was just
Speaker 2: a bunch of government dorks being like this this we
Speaker 2: need to put us stop to this, and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: we don't trust you. So basically Tuesday May twenty ninth,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, US district Judge John H. Wood Junior
Speaker 2: is assassinated near his home in San Antonio, Texas. And
Speaker 2: that's why they kept saying, like justice is like at
Speaker 2: risk because it's not the prosecutor the judge's false that
Speaker 2: you're in trouble. It's you, and like we can't just
Speaker 2: go on and start killing.
Speaker 3: Prosecutors and judges.
Speaker 2: But this was the first time that a US federal
Speaker 2: judge was assassinated and he was sixty three at the
Speaker 2: time of death, so obviously this case is just focused
Speaker 2: on the shooting of the judge in the episode. It
Speaker 2: was a single shot with a rifle while he was
Speaker 2: heading out to work and he was struck in the
Speaker 2: back as he stood at the door of his car.
Speaker 2: His last words to his wife before he got shot
Speaker 2: was it's almost eight thirty. I've got to get to court.
Speaker 2: So he loved his job and then was dead. He
Speaker 2: was pronounced dead on arrival at a nearby hospital. And
Speaker 2: this is very sview episode related. The judge was known
Speaker 2: as Maximum John or hanging High John. Oh yeah, and
Speaker 2: he handed out tough punishment to drug traffickers. Hated drugs
Speaker 2: He is believed to have one of the heaviest narcotics
Speaker 2: related caseloads in the nation, but a lot of the
Speaker 2: law clerks that worked for him said the nicknames were
Speaker 2: unfair because they saw him agonize all the time about
Speaker 2: taking away a man's freedom, and that it was not
Speaker 2: like easy or enjoyable for him, and that he was
Speaker 2: deep in the process of.
Speaker 3: Making these decisions.
Speaker 2: So whatever, I don't know, but these are also, you know,
Speaker 2: want to be judge dorks?
Speaker 3: Can we trust them?
Speaker 2: He was nominated by President Richard Nixon in October nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2: Before that, he went to Saint Mary's University and the
Speaker 2: University of Texas.
Speaker 3: Law School and wildly dun dundun.
Speaker 2: The person who is the hit man who took the
Speaker 2: job to kill him is Woody Harrelson's biological father. So
Speaker 2: white man can't jump. What are harder games? I mean,
Speaker 2: Woody Harrelson, Larry Flynt, Yeah, so yeah, Woody Harrelson. He
Speaker 2: didn't really grow up with his dad, and we'll find
Speaker 2: out about their relationship earlier.
Speaker 3: But he is the hit man who took this job.
Speaker 2: So Harrelson was hired by Jameel is a Jamel whatever,
Speaker 2: but they call him Jimmy Chagra. And if you know
Speaker 2: about drugs, he was at the time like the biggest
Speaker 2: coke and marijuana dealer ever. Like, he was just like
Speaker 2: a very well known international drug dealer. And he paid
Speaker 2: Harrelson two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to assassinate Wood,
Speaker 2: who was going to preside over the drug lord's trial.
Speaker 2: So he was trying to get rid of the judge
Speaker 2: so he didn't have to go to trial.
Speaker 1: I mean, he still would have had to go to trial,
Speaker 1: but maybe he's like it's like, you don't you don't
Speaker 1: get out when your judge gets killed, Like, but maybe
Speaker 1: he didn't want somebody with such a high sentencing.
Speaker 3: That's what it is. That has to be it. Like
Speaker 3: he's just known for doing that now.
Speaker 2: So Harrelson got two hundred and fifty grand for this
Speaker 2: and he's done more for less. Okay, he was sentenced
Speaker 2: to fifteen years for killing a man for only two
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, So yeah, he served five of those fifteen
Speaker 2: for good behavior. And then he was also acquitted of
Speaker 2: another murder of an executive at a carpet company, and
Speaker 2: that I think was only for like fifteen hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: Like he just he was just kind of a chill ass.
Speaker 3: He was doing it for the love of the game man.
Speaker 3: He just loved to murder.
Speaker 2: So Sam de Gellia Junior was the victim that he
Speaker 2: got charged for.
Speaker 3: He was like a father of four. So it is
Speaker 3: very sad.
Speaker 2: And the first trial ended in it with a deadlocked jury.
Speaker 2: But in that same case and trial they found his
Speaker 2: partner accomplice, guy Peter Scamma Rod whatever this guy named
Speaker 2: Pete got. He was sentenced to seven years probation for
Speaker 2: the murder. So it is weird that one person found
Speaker 2: guilty in the other was like a deadlock jury and
Speaker 2: it led to a mistrial.
Speaker 3: But whatever.
Speaker 2: And then Alan Berg was the victim of the crime
Speaker 2: he got acquitted from. He was tried on May twenty eighth,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight for the murder and September twenty second,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy was acquitted by a jury in Texas, And
Speaker 2: I don't really know how.
Speaker 3: Another fun moment with him is he had.
Speaker 2: A six hour cocaine induced standoff with authorities near Van Horn,
Speaker 2: Texas in nineteen eighty that led to his arrest on
Speaker 2: drug and weapons charges. The police were called to the
Speaker 2: scene for this standoff after there was a gaunt he
Speaker 2: was like firing guns at imaginary FBI agents while high
Speaker 2: as hell. So that's how they like apprehended him eventually
Speaker 2: for some of the some of his fun doings. And
Speaker 2: now you understand more about Woody Harrelson. So but you know,
Speaker 2: you were talking about the love of the game. Not
Speaker 2: only was he murdering his day job, he loved being
Speaker 2: a crooked cart car dealer and gambler. So he was
Speaker 2: really good at like cheating and you know, flipping around cards.
Speaker 1: This sounds like a full This sounds like a full
Speaker 1: movie this man's life. Yeah, it doesn't he sound like
Speaker 1: a movie character like that Woody Harrelson would play, Like, yes.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: It's widely believed though that Harrelson was involved in the
Speaker 2: world of organized crime, and even claimed to have been
Speaker 2: connected to the nineteen sixty two assassination of President John F.
Speaker 3: Kennedy.
Speaker 2: What now, Some reports say that he was one of
Speaker 2: the tramps photographed on the Grassy Knoll, like three people
Speaker 2: were kind of arrested.
Speaker 3: There's photos of them, and there were hats and.
Speaker 2: They were never fully processed and they were set off,
Speaker 2: and so the like conspiracy and everything was that he
Speaker 2: worked for the government and that's how he was able
Speaker 2: to get off, get out of these crimes and not
Speaker 2: be charged.
Speaker 3: For stuff and interested.
Speaker 2: But I don't know why the government would work with
Speaker 2: someone so sloppy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and who goes into like cocaine binges and sees them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so I also don't know if the JFK rumors
Speaker 2: are real or he started them, because a lot of
Speaker 2: accounts say that he would just like tell people.
Speaker 3: That he did it.
Speaker 2: Sure, but Woody Harrelson had an interview with Barbara Walters
Speaker 2: and it was quoted saying he believed his father was
Speaker 2: a CIA uperative. Okay, but again, I mean maybe the
Speaker 2: CIA gets people of all different types and then if
Speaker 2: that's the case, I'm available.
Speaker 3: But I don't know why they would work with him.
Speaker 2: And you know, Jimmy, like I mentioned, who hired him,
Speaker 2: was a kingpin of marijuana smuggling in the seventies and
Speaker 2: was notorious for his lavish lifestyle and gambling habits.
Speaker 3: Hello gambling, So yeah, no, I love it.
Speaker 2: So Jimmy and mister Harrelson they met in Vegas gambling,
Speaker 2: and that's how all of this kind of started. And
Speaker 2: for years federal prosecutors in the Southwest had been at
Speaker 2: war with Chagra and the and his l Paso family
Speaker 2: of Lebanese immigrants, so he was everyone was staring at
Speaker 2: him like everyone wanted him. On February twenty ninth, nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy nine, he was indicted on five counts of trafficking
Speaker 2: in marijuana and cocaine. So according to future testimony from
Speaker 2: Joseph Chagra, and he's obviously the brother of Jimmy, and
Speaker 2: he was an attorney and he uh was Jimmy's attorney,
Speaker 2: and he said that. You know, they went to a
Speaker 2: pre trial hearing on April second, nineteen seventy nine, and
Speaker 2: Judge Wood kept denying like a bunch of defense motions,
Speaker 2: and Jimmy was getting nervous and looked over and was like, fuck,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to have a fair trial.
Speaker 3: Do you think I should kill Judge Wood?
Speaker 2: And so that's where the planning started, and Joseph said, yes,
Speaker 2: I think you should, and okay, and the trial was
Speaker 2: set for May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine. Sound like
Speaker 2: a familiar day, Yeah, that is the day of the shooting.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So he was on his way to that
Speaker 2: court case.
Speaker 3: Joseph.
Speaker 2: This lawyer ended up receiving a ten year sentence in
Speaker 2: exchange for testimony against Harrelson, who legit said that he
Speaker 2: told him that he killed the judge with one clean
Speaker 2: shot in the back.
Speaker 3: So Harrelson like confessed to Joseph. Wow.
Speaker 2: And this whole case, like after Wood got shot. It
Speaker 2: was like the FBI spent tens of thousands of man
Speaker 2: hours more than eleven million dollars in search for Woods killer,
Speaker 2: and the investigation lasted nearly three years. At first, the
Speaker 2: investigation was going slowly with the US Attorney in San Antonio,
Speaker 2: so then it was shifted to the Justice Department in Washington,
Speaker 2: and it was considered the biggest FBI probe since President
Speaker 2: Kennedy's murder. Like all fifty four branches were working on this.
Speaker 2: It was like a huge thing. And that again, is
Speaker 2: it because of the judge? Is it because of the
Speaker 2: you know, drug dealing of it all? Or is it
Speaker 2: because mister Harrelson is an operative and they had to
Speaker 2: like do something about it, Like we don't really know,
Speaker 2: but huge investigation.
Speaker 3: James O.
Speaker 2: Ingraham, Deputy Assistant Director in the FBI's Criminal Division was
Speaker 2: put in charge of investigating the killing of wood and
Speaker 2: US marshalls were assigned to protect all federal judges in
Speaker 2: the area.
Speaker 3: The case was kept.
Speaker 2: Away from reporters and they maintained tight wraps on information
Speaker 2: of the case and keeping it tight tight, And from
Speaker 2: the beginning, the federal officials never wavered from the belief
Speaker 2: that Chagra was at the heart of the murder, and
Speaker 2: they all thought it was him. And that's another reason
Speaker 2: it kind of took so long. That the stakes were
Speaker 2: so high. They didn't want to blow the case. They
Speaker 2: needed all the evidence they can get, and they knew
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have another chance. And he's so high connected
Speaker 2: and rich and wild, so they really they really had
Speaker 2: to get all their shit together. So five people were
Speaker 2: indicted besides Chagra and Harrelson. You know, it was Joseph
Speaker 2: the lawyer, Jimmy, Chagar's wife Elizabeth, and Harrelson's wife jo Anne,
Speaker 2: who is not Woodie's mother. If you can imagine, this
Speaker 2: man was married a lot of times. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of women, and they like a bunch of them were
Speaker 2: charged with conspiracy to murder would and with the obstruction
Speaker 2: of justice, and we'll go into like more of their
Speaker 2: like individual actions in this case. And it was a
Speaker 2: big risk going after everybody. But they secretly taped conversations
Speaker 2: between the two Chagar brothers and between Joe Shagar and Harrelson,
Speaker 2: and Joe Schagar claims the tapes are not admissible in
Speaker 2: court because he was acting as an attorney for both
Speaker 2: men and so that like fucks up with client attorney privilege.
Speaker 3: But they taped everything.
Speaker 2: Aw they also taped conversations with Jimmy and another prison
Speaker 2: inmate who agreed to cooperate. So the government recorded more
Speaker 2: than one thousand conversations, most of them by telephone, but
Speaker 2: there was just like lots of stuff. And because Jimmy
Speaker 2: was in jail for drug charges beforehand, so they had
Speaker 2: like conversations from the time that he was in jail
Speaker 2: as well. There's another Chakra brother, Lee, who was a
Speaker 2: defense attorney that made a small fortune whatever that means,
Speaker 2: I don't know, besting the government in a bunch of
Speaker 2: drug cases. And Lee was murdered on December twenty third,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy in his office. A few months later, Jimmy
Speaker 2: was arrested on drug smuggling charges.
Speaker 3: Huh, so his brother was murdered and then, okay, I.
Speaker 2: Don't even know if that's connected, but if there's a
Speaker 2: murder in the family, I'm gonna mention it.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: This whole time that the case was starting, the youngest brother, Joe,
Speaker 2: who was a lawyer, was trying to get Wood off
Speaker 2: the case. He said that would was biased and prejudiced.
Speaker 2: But like old Judge Taft from SVU, he got to
Speaker 2: overrule their motion and did not grant a change of
Speaker 2: like of judge, but did grant a change of venue.
Speaker 2: So they moved the trial from Midland to Austin. So
Speaker 2: that's you know, we didn't know if that was just
Speaker 2: SVU style, but in real life you could try to
Speaker 2: get a judge moved and it's up to the judge
Speaker 2: to say if that's okay or not.
Speaker 3: So he overruled that.
Speaker 2: So what's wild is the murder took place fourteen blocks
Speaker 2: from the scene of a November twenty second ambush where
Speaker 2: two gunmen fired fifteen rounds of bullets into the car
Speaker 2: of an assistant US attorney James Kerr as he left
Speaker 2: home for work when he was only but he was
Speaker 2: only injured slightly, which is good. And he also specialized
Speaker 2: in narcotics prosecutions and presided over very important cases before would.
Speaker 1: Jesus being a judge is like scary at this time period, but.
Speaker 3: We didn't really think about it.
Speaker 2: And it reminds me of the Zapata case with you know,
Speaker 2: Alex Cabot and having to escape and that they're they're
Speaker 2: down to kill witnesses, judges, lawyers, They do not care,
Speaker 2: and so a lot of stuff was happening. So after
Speaker 2: the shooting happened to Kurr, all the judges in the
Speaker 2: area got guarded by federal marshals and they had protection.
Speaker 2: But the judge asked for it to stop shortly before Christmas,
Speaker 2: which might have been a bad mistake because within six
Speaker 2: months he was killed.
Speaker 3: But I don't know how much.
Speaker 2: How long they could have protective detail over every judge
Speaker 2: in San Antonio. I mean, yeah, they're spending so much money,
Speaker 2: it's wild. You could just also make drugs legal and
Speaker 2: then everything would be fine and there wouldn't be all
Speaker 2: this bullshit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like the war on drugs doesn't work.
Speaker 2: Kerr was kept undercover for a while until he returned
Speaker 2: in a very dramatic fashion to federal court in January
Speaker 2: to prosecute a narcotic smuggling suspect who was defended by
Speaker 2: Joe Chagra with Judge Would presiding.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like a soap opera television show
Speaker 1: that this guy is representing all these drug kingpins, including
Speaker 1: his brother who's one of the biggest drug kingpins.
Speaker 2: And that's what actually solidified the government's theory that Harrelson
Speaker 2: was connected by them and hired because they're like, why
Speaker 2: else would Joe Chagra be defending him?
Speaker 3: You know, he's just a hillbilly lunatic.
Speaker 2: So in turn of like keeping in the family, actually
Speaker 2: they told on themselves. Yes, and you know with all this,
Speaker 2: I don't oh god, yeah so much. But it also
Speaker 2: like brings to lighte That's something I don't think about
Speaker 2: where it's like all the judges and lawyers see each
Speaker 2: other all the time. They're all friends. They're all not
Speaker 2: like they're chatting like it is this little community. They're
Speaker 2: not strangers, and they all know who each other are
Speaker 2: and work with each other. And you know, you love
Speaker 2: some judges, you hate some judges, and like what if
Speaker 2: a judge doesn't really like a lawyer, Like, I don't
Speaker 2: trust human beings no matter what their position, to be
Speaker 2: impartial and be professional.
Speaker 3: I don't like if you hate some lawyer, can you
Speaker 3: be impartial?
Speaker 6: Like? I don't know.
Speaker 3: We give too much power to people.
Speaker 2: So February nineteen eighty one, federal agents armed with search
Speaker 2: warrants went to Joe Shauger's home and the homes of
Speaker 2: all the other family members to gather evidence. They found
Speaker 2: tapes of conversations and a rough map that showed Harrelson
Speaker 2: where he had left the murder weapon, and of course
Speaker 2: collected drugs too, so there was.
Speaker 3: Like a drawn map.
Speaker 2: The map, though, didn't help lead to the weapon and
Speaker 2: evidence was questionable, so they had to continue their person
Speaker 2: of additional evidence and spent months trying to pit the
Speaker 2: people in the case against each other, hoping that someone
Speaker 2: would testify. Then there was a break where a rifle
Speaker 2: stock was discovered near where the map located the murder weapon,
Speaker 2: and it was traced back to Joe Anne Harrelson. Joanne
Speaker 2: Harrelson was this guy's second wife. She was tried and
Speaker 2: convicted of purchasing.
Speaker 3: The weapon under a false name.
Speaker 2: And this is a little bit tied to the episode,
Speaker 2: and I wonder if they did that on purpose, But.
Speaker 3: She used a fake name. It was Fay King, which
Speaker 3: is faking.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like bend Over.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so I don't know, you know, Neil Behar
Speaker 2: might have to let us know if that was on
Speaker 2: purpose or not. But if they were taking from this case,
Speaker 2: that kind of makes sense, but faking. So it was
Speaker 2: purchased with this fake name twelve days before the slaying.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I would never say slaying because Tomys slay is
Speaker 2: just drag race, but they kept saying it in this
Speaker 2: and I kind of like.
Speaker 3: It, like to switch it up before he death dropped.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the FBI did get someone to flip, and that
Speaker 2: was Teresa's Star, Jasper Harrelson's stepdaughter, who in the past
Speaker 2: had been jailed last like the year prior on contempt
Speaker 2: charges for refusing to testify to the grand jury. But
Speaker 2: she surely ended up testifying and not being indicted in
Speaker 2: the case, so trust no.
Speaker 3: One.
Speaker 2: Shagar's wife delivered the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: to Harrelson's stepdaughter, Teresa's Star, at a Las Vegas hotel
Speaker 2: and took delivery of the blood money to carry out
Speaker 2: the hit on Judge Wood. So you can't do that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess that's o crime. You can't be moving around
Speaker 2: blood money now. In March nineteen eighty one, a Dallas
Speaker 2: newspaper reported that the judge had actually been trailed for
Speaker 2: several months before the shooting.
Speaker 3: The Dallas Morning.
Speaker 2: News of the surveillance began after a secret meeting in
Speaker 2: San Antonio in December nineteen seventy eight. Like they found
Speaker 2: proof that Charles had rented a case for a week
Speaker 2: near the bea near the beach home of the judge
Speaker 2: in Rockport, Texas, while the judge was also vacationing.
Speaker 3: Ooh, that's so sketchy.
Speaker 2: And this was all scooped by an unidentified man who
Speaker 2: says he was at the meeting and was offered big
Speaker 2: bucks to do it and a cocaine connect and everything,
Speaker 2: but to provide and dispose of them after the murder,
Speaker 2: and he had no interest in doing that. Jimmy Schagar, though,
Speaker 2: who hires the hit man, was acquitted of murder and
Speaker 2: conspiracy of murder in Jacksonville, Florida, but was convicted on
Speaker 2: drug charges. He was also found guilty of obstructing the
Speaker 2: investigation into the slaying and was sentenced to ten years
Speaker 2: in prison. Chagra was freed on parole in two thousand
Speaker 2: and three and entered witness protection and then he died
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3: Of cancer in Arizona. So Jimmy Chagra is dead.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Chagra, who is the wife of Jimmy and was
Speaker 2: found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy to
Speaker 2: obstruct justice. She was was accused of lying in her
Speaker 2: testimony about the purchase of the hunting rifle that was used,
Speaker 2: and she lied in saying she knew nothing about a
Speaker 2: trip made by her daughter and the trip to pick
Speaker 2: up the cash. She was sentenced to thirty years, which
Speaker 2: I think is fucked up.
Speaker 3: The wife got thirty years.
Speaker 2: Yes, conspiracy to commit murder and construct justice. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess if you help out, because well someone told me,
Speaker 2: like if you're the getaway car, you're still charged for murder, right, Like,
Speaker 2: if you're a part of a murder or something taking place,
Speaker 2: you are charged with everybody else.
Speaker 1: He barely served thirty years he served it looks like
Speaker 1: he served twenty five years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, we learned from the Aileen Warno's case.
Speaker 2: They don't really give women deals because the jails aren't
Speaker 2: over done. Yeah, I'm kind of sad for her. So
Speaker 2: she got thirty years and she died in prison in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven of ovarian cancer, and her family fought
Speaker 2: really hard and try to get her out, like for
Speaker 2: a compassionate release, but that did not happen. Joe Anne
Speaker 2: was found guilty of conspiracy to debstruct justice and previously
Speaker 2: convicted of using a false name to buy a rifle
Speaker 2: and sentenced to three years.
Speaker 3: So I don't understand these sentences at all.
Speaker 2: Joe Chagra, who was the attorney, He pled guilty to
Speaker 2: conspiracy charges and served more than six years of a
Speaker 2: ten year sentence, and he died in a car accident
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, family is like kind of haunted or yeah.
Speaker 2: Or you're a drug dealing kingpin. Yeah, it could be karma.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, curse.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if curse. Yeah, ovary and cancer,
Speaker 1: car accidents, these all seemed like things that perhaps were
Speaker 1: brought on by karma.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who knows.
Speaker 2: Yeah cool, because you said I'm lucky, and I go
Speaker 2: they had something to do with their luck.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 2: Harrelson was defended by court appointed attorney Thomas G. Sharp,
Speaker 2: who defended him on the two previous murder for higher
Speaker 2: charges and one ended an acquittal and.
Speaker 3: One you know with that sentence. So whatever. Anyways, this
Speaker 3: trial was eleven weeks.
Speaker 2: Charles Harrelson was convicted in nineteen eighty two to two
Speaker 2: consecutive life terms plus five years, which is really funny.
Speaker 2: So he was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder,
Speaker 2: murder of a federal judge, and conspiracy to obstruct justice,
Speaker 2: which was that extra five years. And that came after
Speaker 2: eighteen hours of deliberation. And then I read that during
Speaker 2: when they like the jury was saying that not, you know,
Speaker 2: we found we find this defendant guilty.
Speaker 3: People were losing their minds.
Speaker 2: Like I understand the Lacy Peterson case, people are going
Speaker 2: to get upset about some stuff. But here the accounts
Speaker 2: say that a bunch of the jury were in tears.
Speaker 2: One woman shook visibly and broke into sobs. Another juror
Speaker 2: collapsed in her chair after the verdict was read and
Speaker 2: needed to be helped from the courtroom.
Speaker 3: I'm so confused. This is like a career criminal. Why, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't get it. I really don't get it.
Speaker 1: If any had him, he was supposed to murder my
Speaker 1: ex husband next week.
Speaker 3: They're so sad.
Speaker 2: Accounts from the courtroom also say that Harrelson was at
Speaker 2: ease and leaning back in his chair and even giving
Speaker 2: the jury little smiles.
Speaker 1: It's like, I can see Woody Harrelson doing that, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, will Woody Harrelson has that sly smile.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was wearing a three piece denim suit, which I love.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: In his testimony, though he said that he was set
Speaker 2: up by another guy, he said that the gun was
Speaker 2: given to this other guy, not by his wife. He
Speaker 2: also said that someone borrowed his car and he was
Speaker 2: not using his car that day, and it's like, bro,
Speaker 2: it's you. But then he also like I think he
Speaker 2: loves attention. He gives me a lot of tiger king vibes.
Speaker 2: And he ended up giving his whole life story, criminal life,
Speaker 2: spilled all these secrets on the stand, like he was
Speaker 2: also arrested at age twenty one on a robbery charge
Speaker 2: in Orange County and then okay, but this is what
Speaker 2: I don't like. So Federal District Judge William S. Sessions
Speaker 2: was a pallbearer at the slain judge's funeral, appointed himself
Speaker 2: this case.
Speaker 3: This is Daddy Craigan.
Speaker 1: Energy. Yes, Daddy Craigan was.
Speaker 2: Kind of doing like you carried this dead man's body
Speaker 2: at his funeral and now you're.
Speaker 3: Presiding over the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was the chief judge in the district,
Speaker 2: so he was allowed to do that to himself. So
Speaker 2: Harrelson goes to prison. He gets two life sentences, the
Speaker 2: extra five years. Now, I cannot get enough of this guy.
Speaker 2: On July fourth, nineteen ninety five, he attempted to escape
Speaker 2: a federal prison in Atlanta with two other inmates using
Speaker 2: a makeshift rope so on, you know, on America's birthday
Speaker 2: or fake birthday, you know, And we as a culture
Speaker 2: think differently of July fourth, But it is one of
Speaker 2: my favorite holidays, and I do like fireworks and hot dogs,
Speaker 2: and now I'm going to celebrate the attempted escape of
Speaker 2: this man as well. But a warning shot was fired
Speaker 2: at them from the prison's tower very very quickly, and
Speaker 2: the trio surrendered, and then he was transferred to Supermax
Speaker 2: in Florence, Colorado, which is the highest federal prison anywhere.
Speaker 2: Other inmates included the unibomber, the Olympic Park bomber, and
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma City bomber, and then this fucking hillbilly.
Speaker 1: A real Who's who?
Speaker 3: Who's who? Are they all put to death?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I actually don't know. The unibomber is dead, right, he's alive.
Speaker 3: I wonder if he's still writing.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you still write?
Speaker 3: I liked the talk about it. We'll write him a
Speaker 3: pen pal letter. Yeah, girl in this episode and be like.
Speaker 1: Do you still right?
Speaker 3: Do you journal?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety seven, Woody Harrelson bankrolled his father's unsuccessful
Speaker 2: appeal and attended the federal proceedings in Texas and Colorado.
Speaker 2: But to appeal after an escape attent is very LOL
Speaker 2: to me. You appeal to be like, no, I'm a
Speaker 2: good guy, but like trying to escape prison, then appealing
Speaker 2: is like the wrong order of stuff.
Speaker 1: I wonder if, like he thought, oh, if my now
Speaker 1: my son is kind of famous, maybe I'll get off
Speaker 1: because of like you know, you never know what goes
Speaker 1: through people's heads, Like.
Speaker 3: You know, my son's bankrolling. He'll be showing up in court.
Speaker 1: Maybe this will draw more attention and they'll let me
Speaker 1: out or something who.
Speaker 3: Knows, Yeah, he so.
Speaker 2: Woody Harrelson in an interview, says that he tried for
Speaker 2: years to get him, to get him free and get
Speaker 2: him a new trial, and they're like, do you think
Speaker 2: he deserved a new trial, and Harrelson says, I don't
Speaker 2: know if he deserved a new trial, but just being
Speaker 2: a son trying to help his dad, and then he
Speaker 2: spent a couple million dollars, I don't know whatever. So
Speaker 2: he didn't think that his dad was innocent, but in
Speaker 2: his head he's like, I'm just gonna help my dad
Speaker 2: in whatever way I can. And in nineteen eighty eight interview,
Speaker 2: Woody Harelson with People Magazine said that his father left
Speaker 2: his mother in nineteen sixty eight when wood he was
Speaker 2: eight and didn't feel like Charles was much of a
Speaker 2: parent at all. He took no valid part in my upbringing.
Speaker 2: So it is a little confusing that he's still paid
Speaker 2: for all the appeals and tried to get his father
Speaker 2: out even though he didn't have a connection. But familial
Speaker 2: bonds are unique in their own way, and he said
Speaker 2: that him and his father had grown closer since the imprisonment,
Speaker 2: and he told People magazine that he's still trying to
Speaker 2: figure out if his father is like a friend or.
Speaker 3: A parent, like he can't really he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Get it, but says that when he was eleven or twelve,
Speaker 2: I heard his name mentioned on a car radio. I
Speaker 2: was in a car waiting for a lady who was
Speaker 2: picking me up from school, helping my mom, and anyway,
Speaker 2: I was listening to the radio and it was talking
Speaker 2: about Charles Harrelson. Thinking there can't be another Charles V. Harrelson.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's my dad. And it was a wild realization.
Speaker 2: So he was just like in a carpool with some
Speaker 2: other woman and hearing about his dad being a killer
Speaker 2: on the radio.
Speaker 3: Pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Anybody said, the lady was really really nice to him
Speaker 2: and realized what had happened.
Speaker 3: Was like a nice lady, So that's cute.
Speaker 2: Charles died in prison March fifteenth, two thousand and seven,
Speaker 2: at age sixty eight, and the federal building on Caesar
Speaker 2: Chavez Boulevard is named after judge would So there's a
Speaker 2: building named after the judge, and that is his legacy.
Speaker 3: Sucks that he was killed.
Speaker 2: Everyone's dead in prison, or yeah, it seems like everyone
Speaker 2: here is dead. So if you want to know more
Speaker 2: and deep dive into the John F. Kennedy of it
Speaker 2: all and all this government conspiracy stuff. You can check
Speaker 2: out Steve Fery's podcast or you know, some wild sources
Speaker 2: on the internet that are not up to our standards.
Speaker 2: But yeah, this was interesting. I like the Woody Harrelson
Speaker 2: connection of it all. And maybe he will make a
Speaker 2: movie one day about it. Who knows, because what I
Speaker 2: learned from Steve, but I couldn't find anything in my
Speaker 2: research was in Colorado during that appeals process. They all
Speaker 2: had to stay in like one place, like everyone was
Speaker 2: staying near the courthouse, like everyone had to go to Colorado,
Speaker 2: and Woody Harrelson played pick up basketball with like the
Speaker 2: judge or the lawyer or something, and they got along
Speaker 2: playing basketball, and so then that judge had to recuse
Speaker 2: himself from the case because he had so much fun
Speaker 2: playing basketball with Woody Harrelson.
Speaker 3: And so then.
Speaker 2: The dad got a new judge and that judge squashed
Speaker 2: the appeal and maybe the other one wouldn't have. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so that was just like a little moment that I
Speaker 2: liked hearing about, but I couldn't find information about it.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: These are just like trash criminals who were willing to
Speaker 2: murder for one thousand dollars, damn and set up their
Speaker 2: wives Like why not? I mean, obviously people are people,
Speaker 2: and this is not my own personal opinion, but if
Speaker 2: I was a drug kingpin, I would not be setting
Speaker 2: up my wife. I wouldn't have my wife do the
Speaker 2: blood money. I would hire, Like, I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Why they Yeah, this is.
Speaker 2: Not hard or I was gonna say, like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sure there was some sex workers running around, Like
Speaker 2: I just don't know why you wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I guess feel like you can't.
Speaker 1: You can only trust family to bring you back two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars cash and not run away
Speaker 1: to Mexico or something. That's the only thing I'm playing
Speaker 1: devil's advocate for a drug king Finry.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: I would like to know the reasoning because to me,
Speaker 2: it's like, well, now your wife had to spend thirty
Speaker 2: years in prison and die slowly.
Speaker 3: I mean, and this is like.
Speaker 1: She sounds like Orange is the new Black character, Like
Speaker 1: this is the kind of shit Red was in jail
Speaker 1: for in that show. She was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: shit that her criminal.
Speaker 3: Husband got her involved in.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for all that in depth research. Lease,
Speaker 1: I knew nothing about this and it was very interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder if we would know. Well, I guess it.
Speaker 2: Was like the first federal judge that was ever assassinated.
Speaker 2: But I wonder if we would care or know about
Speaker 2: this case at all if it wasn't for Whatdy Harrelson's connection.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Interesting true, and that the guy tried to take credit
Speaker 1: for JFK.
Speaker 3: I think I love that all.
Speaker 1: On that love that.
Speaker 2: What if you could take credit for one crime? What
Speaker 2: would you take credit for? I'd be the Zodiac.
Speaker 3: Wait.
Speaker 2: I was listening to Christina Ricci on Whitney Cummings podcast,
Speaker 2: and I guess she played Lizzie Borden in a movie
Speaker 2: or TV show or something, and her research showed that
Speaker 2: Lizzie Borden is not guilty and that she was set
Speaker 2: up And there's all this evidence that Lizzie Borden was
Speaker 2: did not do it.
Speaker 1: And so we do want to do that episode?
Speaker 3: What episode is?
Speaker 2: Is it the Sarah Paulson motherfucker Sarah do our show?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I would love to see. I would love to be
Speaker 2: able to learn.
Speaker 1: Check it out. Yeah, all right, well, we have a hot,
Speaker 1: hot guest coming up, so don't go anywhere, guys, this
Speaker 1: week's guest. I'm sorry I was a blushing heavily over
Speaker 1: Zoom because we've had some very hot guests, but this
Speaker 1: is one of our hottest guests of all time.
Speaker 3: And I'm sorry to interrupt, but I was so mad.
Speaker 2: My hair looks crazy and I kept trying to fix
Speaker 2: it throughout the interview. Not like I was about to
Speaker 2: go marry this guy or anything, but I was just like, cauld,
Speaker 2: I just please look good in front of him, and
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I remember my curls. It'll live.
Speaker 3: It's like I was fidgeting. I could. I was not chill.
Speaker 3: I was not chill.
Speaker 1: Well, especially for Liza, because this man is from a
Speaker 1: very iconic episode of Sex in the City. He is
Speaker 1: in a one of my top ten favorite movies of
Speaker 1: all time, The Double Wars Prada. You can catch him
Speaker 1: recently in The Stars crime drama PowerBook to Colan Ghost,
Speaker 1: but you know him well as CSU technician Bert Trevor.
Speaker 1: Guys are chat with the one and only Daniel Sunjada.
Speaker 1: We can't believe we're talking to Bert Trevor.
Speaker 6: I know now you know what's crazy. I didn't think
Speaker 6: my character had a name when I first got the job.
Speaker 2: But the first episode you were bomb Squad guy random
Speaker 2: And then how did the jump go to play bird?
Speaker 2: Did you have to audition again? Did they just say
Speaker 2: we need this guy back?
Speaker 5: So this is how that happened.
Speaker 6: I got confused last night when I was watching the episode.
Speaker 6: The way that happened was I was sitting in my
Speaker 6: apartment in Flatbush, Brooklyn. I'm eating like chicken wings and
Speaker 6: rice white rice once a day, trying not to take
Speaker 6: a second job so I could be available for auditions.
Speaker 6: I get a call from my agents that I believe
Speaker 6: it's Julie Tucker. I believe it was Julie Tucker at
Speaker 6: the time he was doing casting, and they're like, got
Speaker 6: to come in today. So I ran over to Peer
Speaker 6: twenty three I think that is on the West Side
Speaker 6: Highway over there, and they were literally they had fired
Speaker 6: somebody or for some reason the person had to be
Speaker 6: replaced that day. Wow, So it was like, come in
Speaker 6: an audition. If you get the job, you're going to
Speaker 6: work tonight. I was like, oh my god, I'm like
Speaker 6: freaking out. I'm on the subway, trying to memorize the
Speaker 6: lines and everything. So I get there and kind of
Speaker 6: the rest is history. Like I auditioned, I booked it,
Speaker 6: and I guess it was the bomb squad guy that
Speaker 6: was the first. I vaguely remember that now vaguely, I
Speaker 6: think he might have beet a goatee.
Speaker 5: I remember what he did.
Speaker 6: But the episode that I watched last night, Jete, was
Speaker 6: it season three, episode nineteen or whatever?
Speaker 5: That was?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, that was a totally different that's Bert.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's Bert go Bert.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that scene is iconic.
Speaker 2: That bottle has stayed in my mind for decades and
Speaker 2: it's just like one of the best scenes ever. Did
Speaker 2: you break the like, do you remember that bottle scene?
Speaker 2: And are the facts that you say all true? Because
Speaker 2: you say a lot of you come in, you like
Speaker 2: blow up the case and then you kind of leave
Speaker 2: and yeah, it is all the science real and tell
Speaker 2: us about the bottle moment.
Speaker 6: I don't know if the science is real, it's certainly
Speaker 6: it certainly seems to be based in reality. So I mean,
Speaker 6: I know that there are laboratory, you know, forensic laboratory
Speaker 6: technicians who do that kind of job. They kind of
Speaker 6: helped deconstruct the crime scene for the detectives and help them,
Speaker 6: you know, on their journey to solving the crime.
Speaker 5: Splatter pattern.
Speaker 6: When he was talking about the splatter pattern and the
Speaker 6: way the blood droplets went down the stairs and it
Speaker 6: seemed like she tumbled over and all that, I think
Speaker 6: that they can really tell that kind of stuff from
Speaker 6: evidence left at a crime scene, physical evidence.
Speaker 5: The mother sure was sloppy though, like, yeah, she's like
Speaker 5: you know, I mean I believed her too. I believed
Speaker 5: her up until the end.
Speaker 6: But yeah, shooting that scene was actually really nerve wracking.
Speaker 6: That's why last night I was like, I think this
Speaker 6: is the day that I know this was my first episode.
Speaker 6: I couldn't even remember season seaton that I started in
Speaker 6: season one, So yeah, that day, for some reason, I
Speaker 6: was super nervous. And you know, Chris and Marishka when
Speaker 6: they they have such long days and to all of
Speaker 6: the co stars, they're very generous, they're super kind, you know,
Speaker 6: but you kind of get the impression that we want
Speaker 6: you to be good, but can you get to me,
Speaker 6: just can you just get let's get it done. You know,
Speaker 6: stand in the right spot, say the right words, and
Speaker 6: let's let's keep it pushing. So I was having a
Speaker 6: problem hitting my mark that day. That day, there was
Speaker 6: a ton of technical jargon that I had to I
Speaker 6: had to walk them through my analysis of the crime scene.
Speaker 5: I had to act.
Speaker 6: The direction from the director was that he's like, he's
Speaker 6: like a mad scientist in his lab and he's like
Speaker 6: super exit.
Speaker 5: This kind of stuff turns him on.
Speaker 6: He's really excited to, you know, to share with him
Speaker 6: what is what his conclusions are.
Speaker 5: So I'm trying to play that, you know. And then
Speaker 5: it was it's a very small room.
Speaker 6: So when you're shooting in a small space and there's
Speaker 6: like two or three people in that space, hitting your
Speaker 6: mark is very important. Otherwise the camera. Otherwise it's a
Speaker 6: problem for camera. And I just could not hit my
Speaker 6: mark that day. I just kept I was so consumed
Speaker 6: with remembering what I had to say.
Speaker 5: And the thing with the bottle.
Speaker 6: I had to hold the bottle in an awkward angle
Speaker 6: so that it looks natural on cameras. Sometimes you have
Speaker 6: to instead of looking at your phone like this, they
Speaker 6: need you to like do this, you know, so that
Speaker 6: for some reason, so that it looks you know.
Speaker 5: So it was a similar situation with the bottle.
Speaker 6: I had to hold it and break it in such
Speaker 6: a way that took forever. And anyway, I remember between takes,
Speaker 6: I was basically having a panic attack because I felt
Speaker 6: like I'm going to get fired.
Speaker 5: This isn't happening fast enough.
Speaker 6: And Chris Maloney from across the room, he was just
Speaker 6: like Dan and I looked.
Speaker 5: Over at him. He was just like this, calm down.
Speaker 6: And I was like, I just needed somebody to just
Speaker 6: give me the space to just, you know, take my time.
Speaker 6: And it was a very it was a very generous moment.
Speaker 6: To this day, when I bump into Chris, I remind
Speaker 6: him of that. He was like, I remember, man, you
Speaker 6: were freaking out.
Speaker 5: You're freaking out. So anyway, that's the story of that scene.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it must be harder to memorize the lines when
Speaker 2: it's all the science chats, yeah than regular.
Speaker 6: It definitely is, because you have to say it. You
Speaker 6: have to speak this technical jargon as if it's second
Speaker 6: nature to you, actually, as if you're such an expert
Speaker 6: in your field that you have to dumb it down
Speaker 6: a little bit for the people that you are explaining
Speaker 6: it to. Meanwhile, you're just an actor. Pretending, you know,
Speaker 6: there's a reason why I did not go to medical school.
Speaker 6: There's a reason why I did not study you know,
Speaker 6: criminal whatever psychology.
Speaker 5: So yeah, that could be a little tricky.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just gonna say, even though you haven't
Speaker 2: had all this training, it seems like you get a
Speaker 2: lot of roles as authority, fireman, cop, FBI, And I guess,
Speaker 2: what do you think it is about you that I
Speaker 2: don't know?
Speaker 6: I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't feel very
Speaker 6: authoritative in my own life. And yeah, I guess that's
Speaker 6: true because there was rescue Me, and I don't know.
Speaker 6: I guess it's like a lot of your The way
Speaker 6: you get cast has to do with how you are
Speaker 6: perceived by the casting directors. When they get a script,
Speaker 6: they break it down. Now they're looking to what actors
Speaker 6: are they going to call in for these roles? And
Speaker 6: I just pictured them looking up and blo, blue little
Speaker 6: thought bubbles of like fifteen different people.
Speaker 5: Pop up and then they go you you, And I.
Speaker 6: Guess, yeah, I'm one of the faces that pops up
Speaker 6: when they need a cop or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we noticed there was SVU Rescue Me overlap
Speaker 2: do you remember, like working with your Rescue Me costars
Speaker 2: on SVU and we're bumping into each other.
Speaker 3: It was James mccaffree.
Speaker 6: Oh right, James, my guy. No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 6: I don't remember that, but I do remember both productions
Speaker 6: being very generous in trying to work it out so
Speaker 6: that I could do both things at the same time. Sometimes,
Speaker 6: you know, if you're contractually obligated to one job and
Speaker 6: you have an opportunity to do a second job, the
Speaker 6: first job will just say no, just because they can
Speaker 6: and they want you to be totally available to them.
Speaker 6: But when we're talking about young actors who are trying
Speaker 6: to just get a career started, and it's really the
Speaker 6: it's the aggregate of work that you you know, it's
Speaker 6: the fact that people see you on Rescue Me, and
Speaker 6: now they see you on Law and Order, and now
Speaker 6: they see you in a Broadway play and now Sex
Speaker 6: and the City, and that's what That's what starts a career.
Speaker 6: It's like building a fire and you have to use
Speaker 6: little pieces at first, tindling, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 6: so you can get it going. So I was very
Speaker 6: grateful that both production houses understood that and they did
Speaker 6: what they could.
Speaker 5: To help a young actor get their career going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it sounds like a lot of the New
Speaker 1: York shows are also very cool when it comes to
Speaker 1: people doing stage stuff. They'll try to like help people
Speaker 1: get out on time to like get to do you
Speaker 1: know Broadway or off Broadway stuff.
Speaker 2: Doo.
Speaker 3: It's true, which is probably different than LA.
Speaker 6: Definitely different than LA. Not that there's no theater out here,
Speaker 6: but that's one hundred percent true.
Speaker 2: When did you move out here? It seems like you
Speaker 2: were in New York for a really long time.
Speaker 6: I just got here, my girlfriend and I just got here,
Speaker 6: I'd say two weeks ago, and yeah, I'm finishing another
Speaker 6: job and then after that we intend to stay here
Speaker 6: for a while. But I have lived here before. We
Speaker 6: were in Larchmont Hancock Park last time.
Speaker 2: The best Noah's Bagels, No's bagel. You might not be
Speaker 2: eating bagels, but.
Speaker 5: I'm all about it.
Speaker 3: Well, this is a little off topic, but.
Speaker 2: You know, we were researching you and usually when you
Speaker 2: type in an actor's name or an actress, like, the
Speaker 2: first option is always like wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, husband.
Speaker 3: How have you been able to escape that there is nothing?
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no.
Speaker 1: Dirt on you.
Speaker 3: We're trying to get some uh, there's.
Speaker 6: Some there's some random blah blah and some you know,
Speaker 6: blogs in the deep web.
Speaker 5: Whatever.
Speaker 6: You know, it's people will say. People will say whatever
Speaker 6: they want to say about you. I just at the
Speaker 6: beginning of my career, anytime I had an interview, I
Speaker 6: made sure that it was understood that I'm happy to
Speaker 6: talk about the work. I'm happy to talk about my education,
Speaker 6: I'm happy to talk about all kinds of things, but I'd.
Speaker 5: Really rather leave my personal life out of it.
Speaker 6: And even then sometimes they'll try to like, so, who's
Speaker 6: the lucky lady, and you know what I mean, But.
Speaker 5: I just find it, you know.
Speaker 6: I think the less people know, once you open that door,
Speaker 6: then it's wide open forever. And people just feel entitled too,
Speaker 6: you know. And I don't know what the experience is
Speaker 6: like for women in Hollywood, but for men in Hollywood,
Speaker 6: if you happen to play those cards, the cards of
Speaker 6: your personal life close to your chest, people will then
Speaker 6: just speculate like he's gay, or you know, he never
Speaker 6: brings anybody, he's this, he's that, and you know, sure
Speaker 6: I might be gay, absolutely, maybe it could be whatever
Speaker 6: you just let your imaginations run wild.
Speaker 5: Really, I don't really care. It actually tickles me.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, And I stay out of trouble in case
Speaker 6: you right, I noticed I stay out of trouble.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you do.
Speaker 3: Well. That's good though.
Speaker 1: So, having been on like sixteen episodes of this show,
Speaker 1: you obviously worked with all the different detectives. We're getting
Speaker 1: the Maloney scoop from you, et cetera. Was there anybody
Speaker 1: that you were like super excited when you got when
Speaker 1: you were like, oh, I got a scene with this
Speaker 1: person today. I'm so excited to work with Ice or
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to work with so and so, Like
Speaker 1: I know, you just.
Speaker 5: Said it, Yeah right, you just said it. I mean
Speaker 5: Iced Tea. I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.
Speaker 6: And we were in some scenes together, but my fondest
Speaker 6: memories of him are just the stories that he would
Speaker 6: tell when we were in the hair and makeup room
Speaker 6: at the same time, and stuff about street life and
Speaker 6: you know, pimping and you know, the pimp game.
Speaker 5: And the rap game and stuff. And I would just
Speaker 5: sit there and just listen to him, and I was like, Wow,
Speaker 5: Iced Tea, this is crazy. I can't believe it is
Speaker 5: he Is he still on the show?
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's got any plans to go anywhere either.
Speaker 3: He loves it.
Speaker 6: Let me tell you, when you were on a show
Speaker 6: like that and it's now it's three four seasons, you've
Speaker 6: basically heard from Dick.
Speaker 5: As long as you want to be here, you're here.
Speaker 6: The checks that these people are bringing home, I wouldn't
Speaker 6: I probably wouldn't leave that job either.
Speaker 1: I mean, on top of the fact that not only
Speaker 1: is it running, so you're getting like a guarantee episode
Speaker 1: you know, episode order every season, but then the syndication, Yeah,
Speaker 1: on ten channels at the same time.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you're getting some checks. I hope you're
Speaker 2: still getting some fun.
Speaker 5: Not really, not really not I think that not really
Speaker 5: at all.
Speaker 6: Actually I did for a while, but the merger between
Speaker 6: SAG and AFTRA, they didn't really negotiate the best deal.
Speaker 5: For the actors.
Speaker 6: And there was a day when you would make almost,
Speaker 6: if not more money in your residual income than you
Speaker 6: made on your contract, even if you were just a
Speaker 6: day player.
Speaker 5: Now it's a new day. Now you have to be
Speaker 5: a series regular in order to do that.
Speaker 6: What I wanted to say, though, is that it's never
Speaker 6: really been to be on what I would consider to
Speaker 6: be a procedural show as a series regular. I could
Speaker 6: see myself doing it for a short period of time,
Speaker 6: but I don't think no matter how much money I
Speaker 6: was making, I wouldn't feel artistically and creatively gratified doing
Speaker 6: it for almost two decades Like this is my opinion,
Speaker 6: my perception, but often the most interesting characters on the
Speaker 6: show are the guest stars or the person that might
Speaker 6: have done it. They have the most interesting roles. Sometimes
Speaker 6: oftentimes they even have the better dialogue. It seems like
Speaker 6: the detectives a lot of times it's a different version
Speaker 6: of the same thing. They walk in. They asked a
Speaker 6: couple of questions, you know. Sometimes the question is just
Speaker 6: well why and how do you and when did that happen?
Speaker 6: And it's okay, you can tell the truth, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean? They usually at some point have like
Speaker 6: a nice chunk of something you know, to say, but
Speaker 6: I don't know it just I think it would become
Speaker 6: I would say monotonous.
Speaker 5: That's not the right one.
Speaker 1: Well, we've heard different people say this, say similar things
Speaker 1: to us too, that people that were regulars on the
Speaker 1: show for a long time were like, you know, after
Speaker 1: X amount of seasons, it started to feel like my
Speaker 1: character wasn't really growing anymore. But right, you know, Ice
Speaker 1: is still find in the fun I guess, and he's
Speaker 1: got you know, he's also on a show where they
Speaker 1: let him bring Coco with him wherever he goes. She's
Speaker 1: with him all the time. Yeah, they're throwing lavish parties
Speaker 1: for baby Chanel.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're having it. I think they're
Speaker 3: living a good life.
Speaker 2: Well, so you mentioned that the guests have like cool
Speaker 2: lines and all that, and it reminded me you're in
Speaker 2: one of You're in a lot of iconic, iconic episodes.
Speaker 2: But do you remember you're in an episode where the
Speaker 2: guy goes, I had sex with my sister and then
Speaker 2: he pukes.
Speaker 5: I do remember that. I don't remember what. Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: I do remember that.
Speaker 1: Families and people are obsessed with it. Everybody wants us
Speaker 1: to cover it. But it's not based on a real crime,
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 2: But okay, you're in one of Neil Bear's favorite episodes.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys ever connected on the
Speaker 2: set and what was the it was course Coerce. Of
Speaker 2: course I was with the Kashistis. It was like a
Speaker 2: guy with schizophrenia trying to kidnap us a boy.
Speaker 5: Okay, No, I don't recall that.
Speaker 1: I mean we're like, remember so many of the Yeah,
Speaker 1: some of these you probably only were in for like
Speaker 1: a scene or two, and we're like, do you remember?
Speaker 5: That?
Speaker 6: Was kind of like I was so grateful that that
Speaker 6: I was on for like was it seventeen nineteen episodes?
Speaker 6: But it was the kind of thing where they made
Speaker 6: it easy, like they it would be like once every
Speaker 6: three episodes or four episodes, I'd come in and do
Speaker 6: like two drive by scenes like what Trevor. It wasn't
Speaker 6: like it every week or and every day kind of thing.
Speaker 5: So it was easy to fit that into into the
Speaker 5: other stuff I was doing.
Speaker 3: We have bad habits.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we'll ask a question and someone's like, that was
Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, and I don't I don't
Speaker 2: know what you want from me.
Speaker 3: So I definitely no that it.
Speaker 1: Was No, but you you know a lot of details
Speaker 1: from that episode Justice, and that was you know, eighteen
Speaker 1: years ago at least.
Speaker 6: So that's that's because I watched it last night. But
Speaker 6: I haven't seen it. I see, Yeah, I watched it
Speaker 6: because I knew that's what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 6: But I haven't seen any of my work on Law
Speaker 6: and Order in a very long time.
Speaker 3: So really general, do you watch yourself?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: How do you pick and choose what you watch? I mean,
Speaker 3: you are un Rescue Me for so long?
Speaker 2: Do you watch every week er specific ones or when
Speaker 2: you just started where you like, how to watch.
Speaker 3: With my family and let's get food? How does that work?
Speaker 5: It was when with the Rescue Me.
Speaker 6: It was me, Michael Lombardi and Steve Pasqual that were
Speaker 6: the young guys that had got cast on the show.
Speaker 6: And when I tell you, we were excited, like we
Speaker 6: literally we met in Times Square when they put the
Speaker 6: billboard up, and we were like, WHOA.
Speaker 5: My god, We're on a billboard in Times Square. You know.
Speaker 6: We didn't then stand there and wait for people to
Speaker 6: recognize us and ask us for autographs. But yeah, we
Speaker 6: used to have viewing parties and we would get together
Speaker 6: at each other's cribs, and we did that for about
Speaker 6: the first one or two seasons, and then you kind of, you.
Speaker 5: Know, I would say, it's your job.
Speaker 6: You're still passionate about what you're doing, but the excitement
Speaker 6: kind of wore off for us and we became just
Speaker 6: more focused on the work in general. Unless it's something
Speaker 6: like that, it's a situation that I'm just super super
Speaker 6: excited about, or I'm wondering if how it felt to
Speaker 6: me when I gave the performance, if it came across
Speaker 6: that way. In situations like that, I'll watch myself. But
Speaker 6: a lot of times my friends get mad at me
Speaker 6: because I forgot to tell them that something that I
Speaker 6: did was airing, because even I didn't know that it
Speaker 6: was airing.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were on SVU, did you ever did
Speaker 1: you ever befriend any of the other CSU texts like
Speaker 1: Melinda Warren, Melinda Warner, Mark Doyle Like, No, we.
Speaker 5: Never got close.
Speaker 6: I mean our paths would cross occasionally, but no, I
Speaker 6: didn't make any like I.
Speaker 5: Would say, long term friendships.
Speaker 6: And the last person that I've seen was was Chris
Speaker 6: was Maloney because he cast me in this show that
Speaker 6: he did called Happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 5: So you know, he and he just called me out
Speaker 5: of the blue. Again.
Speaker 6: I really needed a job at the time, and it
Speaker 6: was a straight offer, and I was so grateful. I
Speaker 6: did not watch that particular. I did not I did not.
Speaker 5: Watch Happy, But that's because of my vanity. I was.
Speaker 6: I was a little rotund in that role for myself,
Speaker 6: so I was. It's an image conscious industry, you know,
Speaker 6: we're all so neurotic about that.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I guess if he wasn't happy with the
Speaker 5: way I looked, he probably would have been like.
Speaker 6: Oh, because he was this fitness yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 6: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: The guy is to this day he is jacked.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, his butt, his butt had a real summer. I
Speaker 1: feel like he was having a real hot butt.
Speaker 5: Summer, but summer, lots of squats.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about Sex and the City and
Speaker 2: Devils Proudie a huge, huge, like, I mean, there's Miranda
Speaker 2: up there.
Speaker 3: How was it? I mean, there was the height of
Speaker 3: that show.
Speaker 2: You were a young actor, like you were getting SVU
Speaker 2: and stuff, Blake, how was it booking it wearing a
Speaker 2: cute little navy outfit and did people lose their minds?
Speaker 6: I got recognized more for that single episode of TV,
Speaker 6: and I'm talking this was for years.
Speaker 5: I was it was more than rescuing me more than this,
Speaker 5: more than that.
Speaker 6: When people did stop me on the street, they would
Speaker 6: be like, you were on Sex and the City and.
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, that was meaning. It was great.
Speaker 6: You know, the producers, in particular Sarah Jessica Parker, who
Speaker 6: as the star and an executive producer on the show,
Speaker 6: doesn't have to be nice to anybody, but she was
Speaker 6: so generous, so kind, just made the acting so easy,
Speaker 6: especially that the scene where we danced together. You know,
Speaker 6: I can't remember what the song was, but I think
Speaker 6: why that show did so much from that single episode
Speaker 6: of TV, why it did so much for my career
Speaker 6: is because it was the first episode of Sex and
Speaker 6: the City to air after nine to eleven.
Speaker 1: I believe, Wow, I didn't even know that.
Speaker 6: I'm almost positive it's the Fleet Week whatever.
Speaker 5: I think the Fleet Week episode.
Speaker 2: Which was such a lie because I moved to New
Speaker 2: York excited for Fleet Week because of that episode.
Speaker 3: And then they're just they're like teenagers and bell bottoms.
Speaker 2: You know. It was like, it's such a disappointment because
Speaker 2: it's like you're expecting someone like you and then it's
Speaker 2: it's it's not.
Speaker 3: It was not.
Speaker 2: It was a disappointment. Real Fleet week was a disappointment.
Speaker 6: Well, you see, now it was a mix because the
Speaker 6: guys that were on the street with me when I
Speaker 6: stopped the taxi cab for Jessica, they were kind of
Speaker 6: the belt. They're more the guys that you say kind
Speaker 6: of I'll say, let you down.
Speaker 5: They were very good looking young men.
Speaker 6: They were very much but they were but then they
Speaker 6: cast you know, there was another guy who was like
Speaker 6: like a naval officer, you know what I'm saying, and like, yeah,
Speaker 6: they don't go those guys don't go out in New
Speaker 6: York for fear.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the guys that are at that.
Speaker 1: Level, Oh my gosh. I was going to say, like,
Speaker 1: I wonder what you get recognized the most for. And
Speaker 1: I bet it's like between Devilware's Prada and Sex and
Speaker 1: the City just because you know, you really stick out
Speaker 1: to women and they say.
Speaker 2: Something like Devilware's Proud. I've seen at least twenty times.
Speaker 2: They watch it on flights all the time. It's just
Speaker 2: kind of always and same with Sex and the City.
Speaker 2: There shows that you NSVU, you're kind of like, we're
Speaker 2: going to see you a lot.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, sure. At Doubleware's crowd, it was a really
Speaker 5: good movie.
Speaker 6: I thought it was just going to be kind of
Speaker 6: like you know what the people normally they basically chick
Speaker 6: flick that only women would want to watch it. But
Speaker 6: so many of my male friends were like, I watched
Speaker 6: it because of my girlfriend. But actually it was really good.
Speaker 6: I was like, it's it's a well done film. It's
Speaker 6: worth the price, the price of admission just to see
Speaker 6: Meryl Streep's performance.
Speaker 1: Is like, no, it's so good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how is it working with Meryl Street?
Speaker 6: So, to be completely honest, and I do like to
Speaker 6: say that I worked with her, but really I worked
Speaker 6: in front of her. I didn't really have a lot
Speaker 6: of dialogue. I can't even remember if we have.
Speaker 1: In that movie of her like referencing you, like that's
Speaker 1: James Holt, like and then that you the camera pans
Speaker 1: and it's like you and it's like, oh, James Holt, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, I guess the biggest scene that I had
Speaker 6: with Meryl was my character is presenting her with his
Speaker 6: new line, his new fashion line inspired by blah blah whatever.
Speaker 5: And still I did have words to say to her.
Speaker 6: But then in the movie, it's all over its voiceover,
Speaker 6: you can't hear what I'm actually saying. Right, you just
Speaker 6: see her purse her lips in dissatisfaction and turn her
Speaker 6: head to the left.
Speaker 1: Soul crushing.
Speaker 2: Do you think James Hole deserved the pursed lips?
Speaker 3: Was that dress?
Speaker 5: Suddenly?
Speaker 6: I actually thought that that dress. You know, I don't
Speaker 6: know if I have great taste in fashion, but I
Speaker 6: thought it was pretty nice. But it just speaks to
Speaker 6: how high her character's standards were.
Speaker 1: I think I don't know what your audition process was
Speaker 1: for Devilware's product, but were you like, like, you've played
Speaker 1: like a fireman, a navy guy, a CSU tech FBI agent,
Speaker 1: all these things, and then they're like, we want you
Speaker 1: to play a fashion designer, an up and coming fashion designer.
Speaker 3: Were you like, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 5: That's great.
Speaker 6: I mean, anytime you have the opportunity to establish range
Speaker 6: outside of the way you have been being cast. Not
Speaker 6: the firef not the cop. This is like something totally different.
Speaker 6: And I don't even think James Holt's character is in
Speaker 6: the book.
Speaker 5: I think it was.
Speaker 6: I think he was created for in the context of
Speaker 6: the film. I could be wrong about that, but I
Speaker 6: don't think he's in the actual book. No, I was
Speaker 6: all over that, I was like, this is great.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you are working on now that
Speaker 2: you're really excited about or and you would would like
Speaker 2: to share, well.
Speaker 6: Right now something that's airing that again in the spirit
Speaker 6: of a character that nobody would expect me to be playing.
Speaker 6: On the Stars Network, there's a show called Power Book
Speaker 6: two Ghost. So the flagship show is just called Power
Speaker 6: and I was a huge fan of that show.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah Power, right yeah.
Speaker 6: Courtney Kemp is the executive producer alongside Curtis Jackson.
Speaker 5: Fifty cent right, I was.
Speaker 1: Going to say, it's fifty cent show, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: And so Power was on for six seasons. I watched
Speaker 6: every episode of every season because I just.
Speaker 5: I really really liked it.
Speaker 6: And then I got a call from Courtney Kemp and
Speaker 6: she just basically offered me this role.
Speaker 5: The character's name is Mecha Mecca.
Speaker 6: He's like a just like Where's like gorilla pimp, fur
Speaker 6: coats and bald shaved head. And they dyed my beard
Speaker 6: black and I was like working out like crazy trying
Speaker 6: to get like my idea of the character was he
Speaker 6: was like a big, physically imposing kind of like dude,
Speaker 6: and he's the heavy for the entire second season. He's
Speaker 6: the bad guy wow and Mary J. Blige's love interest.
Speaker 6: So I got to act with Mary J. Blige, who yeah,
Speaker 6: for the whole season. So that's airing now. They're only
Speaker 6: like three or four episodes have aired, and so I'm
Speaker 6: excited about that.
Speaker 5: I have been watching that. I have been.
Speaker 6: Watching that, yeah, because I was excited to play that
Speaker 6: well Mary J. But the character, the character that I
Speaker 6: got to play was so unlike anything I've ever gotten
Speaker 6: to do before. And Courtney was like, how do you
Speaker 6: feel about rocking a bald head? I was like, yes,
Speaker 6: that's what I wanted it to be. The kind of
Speaker 6: thing where when my character is introduced, people tilt their
Speaker 6: heads and go and then it takes them a minute
Speaker 6: and they go, oh my god, that's Danielson John, Like
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, not unrecognizable, but that it
Speaker 6: takes you a minute to figure out that it's me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like I think your hair is a little
Speaker 1: bit of part of your signature. Look like I think
Speaker 1: of you with your hair usually.
Speaker 6: Sure, and I know it's short right now, but I
Speaker 6: still have my hairline.
Speaker 5: Okay, And now I want you guys thinking, all right, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is this is a choice. This is a choice.
Speaker 5: That was a great experience.
Speaker 6: And right now I'm shooting a show called Echoes for Netflix.
Speaker 6: It's a Netflix limited series. The star of the show
Speaker 6: is Michelle Monahan. After that it's Matt Boehmer, and then
Speaker 6: after Matt, it's me, is it like.
Speaker 3: A murdery thing? What is it?
Speaker 1: What's yes?
Speaker 6: It's yeah, it's like it's like a it's like a
Speaker 6: there's a murder mystery aspect to it.
Speaker 5: Michelle Monaghan plays twin sisters.
Speaker 6: And uh and they're both married, and they both were
Speaker 6: in Virginia, but one sister and her husband moved to
Speaker 6: La Okay. And that's those are the scenes we're here
Speaker 6: to shoot. We're almost done. The other couple stays in Virginia.
Speaker 6: The sisters almost annually switch places and they think that
Speaker 6: the husbands don't know there's a reason for that, but
Speaker 6: that would also again be a spoiler. And they will,
Speaker 6: like when they're in transit, they will meet at a
Speaker 6: certain location, examine each other. If there's been a new
Speaker 6: scar or a new mark or whatever, they will match
Speaker 6: it exactly.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: One of them speaks with a you know, Virginia accent.
Speaker 6: The other is very la So the styles of the.
Speaker 5: Two sisters are totally different.
Speaker 6: So one of the exciting turning points in the show,
Speaker 6: and I don't think this is really that much of
Speaker 6: a spoiler, is that my character does know that they're switching.
Speaker 5: He and he has and he's a he's a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3: Are you one of the husbands?
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm one of the husbands.
Speaker 6: Yes, I'm the l a husband and so so he
Speaker 6: has known and he's always known that.
Speaker 5: And that's a little weird right there.
Speaker 3: Wait, this isn't true. I'm gonna I'm watching. But that's
Speaker 3: what's so TV. It's like we have to wait like
Speaker 3: what a year and a half. It's like I want
Speaker 3: it so bad.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: When it comes out, we're gonna get dive right in.
Speaker 1: That sounds right up my alley.
Speaker 6: I think that should That should probably be Echoes Netflix
Speaker 6: limited series, only seven episodes and it.
Speaker 5: Should come out later this year. I think that's it.
Speaker 5: That's all I got.
Speaker 2: I wanted to add I'm from Skochie. I read that
Speaker 2: you're from Evanston, and so I got excited.
Speaker 6: So I guess you could say I was born in Evanston,
Speaker 6: but I was raised on the South Side of Chicago,
Speaker 6: but technically born in Evanston.
Speaker 2: I'm a White Sox fan, Okay, I'm a fan of
Speaker 2: all things Chicago.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't take science Cubs, White Sox, Bears, Hawks, whatever.
Speaker 1: It's all good, Daniel, Is there anything else you want
Speaker 1: to like, like any last minute tidbits, your memories, bond
Speaker 1: memories from the show, or anything.
Speaker 6: Law and Order SVU did a tremendous amount to advance
Speaker 6: my standing and position as an up and coming actor,
Speaker 6: the level of visibility that it afforded me, the income
Speaker 6: to continue to pursue my dream, pay my rent as
Speaker 6: an actor. It really was probably one of the biggest moments,
Speaker 6: if you want to call it, well, it's over the
Speaker 6: course of about two and a half years, one of
Speaker 6: the biggest moments in my development. So it did so
Speaker 6: much for me and I always look back on those
Speaker 6: memories fondly. And to all the Law and Order SVU
Speaker 6: fans out there, you should also keep in mind this
Speaker 6: show has done the exact same thing it did for me.
Speaker 5: It has done this for countless actors in New York.
Speaker 6: It is a to say it's an iconic shows and
Speaker 6: understatements you can't. I can't overesteem how important the franchise
Speaker 6: has been from a creative standpoint, because nobody's ever done
Speaker 6: what Dick Wolf has done, but also just from the
Speaker 6: standpoint that I that I just enumerated, it's a great
Speaker 6: place to.
Speaker 1: Be Daniel Sinjada, it's great.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to watch the show Echoes. I can't wait.
Speaker 3: It's like Twins Secrets, give us more Net. I like
Speaker 3: Got Actress too. I like Michelle Monthaum.
Speaker 2: Because a part of me wants to cancel Netflix with
Speaker 2: another price raise.
Speaker 3: But for Daniel.
Speaker 2: Sunjata, I'm sticking with it, and for our careers, I
Speaker 2: guess we just have to be I fucking flecks all
Speaker 2: the time, all day.
Speaker 3: Every day.
Speaker 1: But I'm really glad you made us through that episode, Lisa,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you didn't make us, but you suggested it,
Speaker 1: and I just like you were like the bottle moment.
Speaker 1: The bottle moment, I was like, do I remember this?
Speaker 1: And then when I saw the episode, I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this episode is perfect twist and turns like so oh
Speaker 1: like crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many elements we love, you know.
Speaker 2: We love an expensive store moment, we love like a
Speaker 2: government worker being kind of shitty, like we.
Speaker 3: Just like all of these things.
Speaker 2: I was speaking a government worker, a girl from my
Speaker 2: old college, from my Christian college. She was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you never really went to class, and when you were there,
Speaker 2: you were pretty rude to everyone.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't remember this.
Speaker 2: But then memories came to life.
Speaker 1: What do we learn from this episode that we haven't
Speaker 1: learned a thousand times before?
Speaker 3: But on she works in foster care. Oh, my friend
Speaker 3: from college.
Speaker 2: It's part of what we do here, and like, you know,
Speaker 2: looking for Patricia's records and everything. But she works at
Speaker 2: foster care and she checks foster care.
Speaker 3: Parents if they're like doing a good job or not.
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, what are the.
Speaker 2: Signs that you look for when someone's not you know,
Speaker 2: you could just tell. She goes mostly lying, like if
Speaker 2: you say you don't have guns, and then I open
Speaker 2: a door and there's guns.
Speaker 3: That's a problem, and.
Speaker 2: I go, oh, okay, and I think I could tell
Speaker 2: that was a problem. But we talked about the WHOOPI
Speaker 2: Goldberg episode and institution will fail and just like foster care,
Speaker 2: and it was really.
Speaker 3: Interesting to meet someone that does that.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I don't mean to completely talk over Liza.
Speaker 2: But it's you know, I like meeting people that are
Speaker 2: within the the things that we talk about because it
Speaker 2: means we're doing a good enough job for these people
Speaker 2: that are inside of it and talking about things that
Speaker 2: matter to them. So it makes me happy. But yes, please,
Speaker 2: what did we learn don't marry a man if you
Speaker 2: have children, they'll rape your children. No, that's not the lesson.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you gotta look out for red flags.
Speaker 1: It's like when you were talking about that other podcast,
Speaker 1: like she just knew something was up, Like trust your intuition,
Speaker 1: trust your gut, Like if you feel like your husband's
Speaker 1: doing something fucking weird, yeah, I guess, check all options.
Speaker 3: But this bitch didn't care. That's the thing.
Speaker 2: What the girl was like, my dad is the thing,
Speaker 2: and the mom killed her. You're saying, like, if you
Speaker 2: get a gut instinct that this man might be harassing.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the other podcast you were talking about
Speaker 1: when the woman thought that her husband was cheating and
Speaker 1: it turned out he was taking the foot Yeah no,
Speaker 1: I yeah, and so what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't be brooked. We learned that don't be brooked.
Speaker 1: Don't like sacrifice your fucking teen daughter, so you can
Speaker 1: be rich and have two kids like with him.
Speaker 3: Yes, real life, real life, I forget.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was talking about the real one. But
Speaker 1: also I did not like Craigan in this episode trying
Speaker 1: a stone wall and make it act like just because
Speaker 1: you're in a robe and just because like, have we
Speaker 1: not learned Have we learned nothing from years of SVU
Speaker 1: and years of real cases in the media where robes
Speaker 1: and uniforms hide what people's bad acts are.
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I just didn't like that Daddy Craigs was giving
Speaker 1: people preferential treatment.
Speaker 3: But I think in the end he be objective bit
Speaker 3: stuck it to Walter.
Speaker 1: All right, let's wrap up this post mortem. Just a
Speaker 1: good episode, And I mean, I don't know what we
Speaker 1: learned from We learned that, like, if you grow up
Speaker 1: and your son is Woody Harrelson, you can literally just
Speaker 1: get away with.
Speaker 3: Murder five time.
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of got away with murder a
Speaker 1: lot of time.
Speaker 2: Also, you think being in the FBI or an informant
Speaker 2: or like a worker in the CIA or something is hard.
Speaker 2: But if this hillbilly could do it, what is stopping
Speaker 2: all of us from going undercover? The fact that the
Speaker 2: FBI has not reached out to me. Is such an insult?
Speaker 3: Let me help. Yeah, I'm willing would be.
Speaker 1: The most unexpected undercover operative, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I'm pissed you guys killed Martin, Luther King,
Speaker 2: Huey pu In, Like, I'm mad you guys killed all
Speaker 2: the Black Panthers and stuff. But if I need to,
Speaker 2: I'll help bring down a terrorist as long as they're why, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna help you, you know, cover it.
Speaker 1: If you guys have any any contacts within the CIA, FBI, NSA,
Speaker 1: just drop us a DM or you know, hit us
Speaker 1: up on the National Security Association. That's like, also very.
Speaker 2: Okay, But I won't do anything with Homeland, got it?
Speaker 1: She has demands.
Speaker 2: I yet watching salt Lake, and I do love the
Speaker 2: FBI thing. I just I'm in episode twelve right now.
Speaker 1: So you be part of that Homeland, You're like, if
Speaker 1: it involves a housewife, I will be involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but put me in a PA outfit. I'll the
Speaker 2: boom mic, I'll get the secrets.
Speaker 1: Although the way that they treated her family was fucked up.
Speaker 1: They the way that they had guns on her teen sons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the videos didn't look like the guns were up,
Speaker 2: but the boys did have their hands up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that seemed just like a way, like you're traumatizing
Speaker 1: these teen boys because their mom did like a fucking
Speaker 1: scam over the phone price.
Speaker 2: It's weird watching people delusional saying they're innocent when that's like,
Speaker 2: we know that you're guilty, but you're right. Have Like
Speaker 2: watching her cry about her children was very guttural and rare.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is wild that she's like acting like
Speaker 1: the FBI didn't do a year's long investigation on this.
Speaker 3: The FBI doesn't fuck around like that, and.
Speaker 1: The Southern District of New York has like a ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent conviction rate.
Speaker 3: Girl, you think that you're just like an accident.
Speaker 2: Like and everyone else in your company played guilty like
Speaker 2: girl girl.
Speaker 1: Girl, Girl Girl. Anyway, let's get into our what would
Speaker 1: Sister Peg do segment this week. This is our weekly
Speaker 1: segment where we give you guys an organization, a book,
Speaker 1: an article, some kind of resource to give you more
Speaker 1: info on what we talked about in today's episode. And
Speaker 1: we just were thinking about poor Patricia and everything she
Speaker 1: went through. So we decided this week that we would
Speaker 1: direct you towards the American Academy of Child and Adolescents Psychiatries,
Speaker 1: Trauma and Child Abuse Resource Center. I know that's a mouthful,
Speaker 1: but it is the AACAP. So that is ww dot
Speaker 1: AACAP dot org. They are the leading national professional medical
Speaker 1: association dedicated to treating and improving the quality of life
Speaker 1: for children, adolescents, and families affected by mental, behavioral or
Speaker 1: developmental disorders. And they have an easy to navigate website
Speaker 1: that has a lot of resources to help educate family
Speaker 1: on the mental and emotional effects of child abuse and
Speaker 1: assist them in finding child and adolescent psychiatrists in their area,
Speaker 1: which sounds like an amazing resource. So if you want
Speaker 1: more info, that's www dot AACAP dot org and as
Speaker 1: always will be in the WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page.
Speaker 1: And I also just wanted on a little bit of
Speaker 1: a personal note to mention that I had a friend,
Speaker 1: a long time friend of twenty plus years, who passed
Speaker 1: away this weekend after a battle with cancer. And she
Speaker 1: has an amazing Instagram that she was running, She was
Speaker 1: doing speaking engagement, she was doing all kinds of things
Speaker 1: before she passed called No Time to Waste project. She interviewed.
Speaker 1: She had a podcast. She interviewed Katie Couric, Matthew McConaughey,
Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler. She got great people on her podcast and
Speaker 1: also lesser known people who have amazing stories about their
Speaker 1: either survival or their or their.
Speaker 3: Living with cancer.
Speaker 1: So that is a thing I wanted to just direct
Speaker 1: you guys to the No Time to Waste project.
Speaker 3: I'm going to post that in our stories as well.
Speaker 1: And she also was asking people to donate to First Dissents,
Speaker 1: which is First Underscored d s ce NTS, which is
Speaker 1: a nonprofit dedicated to helping those with life threatening illness
Speaker 1: continue to thrive through the power of outdoor adventure. You
Speaker 1: are feeling generous, I'm going to donate to that in
Speaker 1: the name of my friend, and I hope you do too.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Kara. We're really well sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2: And I hope you guys are able to give this
Speaker 2: week because a lot of you wrote and said that
Speaker 2: you do listen all the way to the end of
Speaker 2: the podcast because you're obsessed with us.
Speaker 3: So thank you so much.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to switch it over to what we're
Speaker 2: going to be doing next week in an awkward transition,
Speaker 2: but we will be watching street Wise. Feel but we've
Speaker 2: been waiting for this one for a really long time.
Speaker 2: I think street Wise has been on your requests in
Speaker 2: our hearts for a really long time. Season nine, episode eleven,
Speaker 2: Watch where you watch your SVUS.
Speaker 3: I refuse to tell you where.
Speaker 1: But you know we doret somebody write in and say
Speaker 1: that they're sad that you won't do it because they
Speaker 1: like they like the way you say peacock.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean if someone wants to get turned on,
Speaker 2: I will not say no. Okay if you well, now
Speaker 2: I'm shy. Plus listen Hulu. I can't next week. It's
Speaker 2: a teaser next week when I'm not nervous. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: love you guys.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: See you next week.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Analie Snelson.
Speaker 1: And to our mixing engineer RYO Baum.
Speaker 3: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song.
Speaker 1: And to Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer
Speaker 1: and everyone at Exactly Right Me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, Subscribe and leave us a review on Apple podcast, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3: Dun, dun,