1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: Dan ives of Webbush writing, this view does not change 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: our bullish view of Tesla and the autonomous view, but 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: clearly does put a fly on the ointment of the 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Trump regulatory framework going forward. Dan joins us. Now, Dan, 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: great to see you, great to be here, very curious 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 2: to hear what you have to say about this. The 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 2: fact that you do not change your bullish outlook on Tesla, 9 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: even though it seems like there is a massive key 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: Man risk. Please explain how you dismiss that. 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: Look, I mean, this is a its friend It's like 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: a Frenemi is in junior high school. That's essentially going 13 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 3: on between Trump and much. 14 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: We're billionaires and leaders of massive empires. 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: And look, the reality is that our view is that 16 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: this is something where the friendship it doesn't end. In 17 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 3: other words, I still believe that this will be resolved 18 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: potentially by the end of the day, by the weekend. 19 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 3: And it's not our view that this changes the regulatory landscape. 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: Four musk. When it comes to autonomous and the broader vision, how. 21 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: Do we even talk about the fundamental backdrop though? When 22 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: you have a war of words, whipsawing this company by 23 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: more than one hundred and fifty billion dollars of market capitalization. 24 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: Does that introduce a risk that a lot of institutions 25 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: just won't take. 26 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: Look, but we always start and we've turn on the 27 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: ship for a decade. It comes down like with Tesla, 28 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: that's the reality. I mean, you're going to have the volatility. 29 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: It's part of what we've seen with Musk. But in 30 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: our view is that you have to see through the noise, 31 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 3: understand the autonomous vision. It's our view ultimately Way Moos 32 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 3: at the kids table when it comes to autonomous and 33 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: the AI future. And look, this is it's Rod Serling. 34 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: It's an episode out of the Twilight Zone yesterday. I mean, 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 3: in my opinion, in all my years covering Tesla, it 36 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 3: might win the prize top three, maybe top one for 37 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: one of the strangers days that I've ever seen. 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 4: So last year Elon Musk said take away the subsidies. 39 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 4: It only helped Tesla. Why does he or based on 40 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 4: reporting out of the speak of Johnson, out of President Trump, 41 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 4: why has there been this reversal from him regarding the 42 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 4: EV subsidies. 43 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 3: He's no longer in the White House. I mean, and 44 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 3: you've talked about it. It comes down to like he's 45 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 3: now trying to distance himself for a few reasons. One 46 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: that would hurt Tesla not as much as the others 47 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: in terms of the Detroit Big Three. But then you 48 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 3: also look at what's happening here. I believe there's some 49 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: poker going on as well, that he's trying to distance 50 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 3: himself from Trump because of China, because he also needs 51 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: to play nice in the sandbox in Beijing with everything 52 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: that we see as given the China market raw material 53 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: is how important that is from a demand perspective, He's 54 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 3: trying to be sure, I think balances and for a musk, 55 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: even though some of it could come out sort of 56 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 3: spur of the moment, I do believe potential there's a 57 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 3: longer game here. 58 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 4: Is he rebranding for a midterm election where most people 59 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 4: think the Republicans are going to get absolute salacking. 60 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: Well, look in the reality is is that That's why 61 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: in d C. I mean, you know, if you're a 62 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: hater or whatever, a musk he is going to be 63 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: a huge player. And that's why for all parties. That's 64 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: why White House, you know, it seems trying to put 65 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: together this phone call, because no one's a winner, Trump 66 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: or Musk in this Frontemi's battle. I think it's two 67 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: kids in the sandbox. I do think the play date 68 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 3: will be back on at one point. It's just going 69 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: through definitely sim little tension here. 70 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 2: Wait, you're actually suggesting something that's pretty important, that there 71 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: is an aspect of deliberateness to this by Elon Musk 72 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: to revive the brand around Tesla, to try to paint 73 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: it with a less Maga type of brush after a 74 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: lot of blowback and a lot of fall off in sales, 75 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: particularly outside of the United States. Do you really think 76 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: that actually this is a vocal way of his distancing 77 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: himself and that he can get back in good with 78 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: President Trump. But this is an effort to revive a 79 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: brand that suffered a black eye, just like Elon Musk. 80 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: Look, I think there's some of that potentially at play. 81 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: But you don't burn the house down just so you 82 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: can meet the firefighters. I mean, the point is you 83 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: need to navigate the situation very carefully. You need Trump 84 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: as a friend, not a foe. And that's why Tessa 85 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 3: down so much, is because if you're on the regulatory 86 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: it's going to be a green light when it comes 87 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: to autonomous and especially Tesla, and I view is a 88 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: huge advantage there. You can say way mo little as well. 89 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 3: You don't need Trump now as an enemy, you need 90 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 3: them as a friend. Hopefully by the end of the 91 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: day the candle White dinners back on. I just do 92 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: not believe that these friends become enemies. It's a again, 93 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 3: it's a Frenemi's junior high school situation between two as 94 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: we know, a very stubborn individual. 95 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 2: Let's say in episode six they still haven't gotten back together, 96 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: do you change your view and become more bearish on Tesla. 97 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 3: Look, if this continues to continue to play out longer 98 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 3: and longer term, obviously that would be a huge negative. 99 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 3: But my view, just say junior high school, they will 100 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: get back together as friends, but it's going to take 101 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 3: some intermediaries. That's why the White House, there's a lot 102 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: in DC on the Republican Party and everywhere. 103 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 4: Well, the distance is already there, and there's something that 104 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: happened yesterday that potentially the White House are really upset 105 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 4: with and maybe are going to create a lot of 106 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 4: tension for a long term, even if they start playing 107 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: a little bit nicer. Is this an opportunity potentially for 108 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 4: China to use BYD. We can see BYD cars made 109 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 4: in the United States. 110 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: Look, I think this is just a broader game of 111 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: poker going on, and Musk and Trump are key players 112 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: at that poker bakra on table, whatever you want to 113 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: think about it. China definitely is watching this carefully because 114 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: also remember Musk is i'd say, along with Cook, I 115 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 3: mean to know the China market better. They also play 116 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: nice in Beijing as well, so there is some bounds 117 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 3: going on here. But look, must we want him to 118 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: distance himself from Trump still be a friend. It's been 119 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 3: a very strange few weeks, a few months, and obviously 120 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 3: twenty four hours. But I do believe by the end 121 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 3: of the day and going into the weekend, I don't 122 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 3: expect this to get work. I do believe this will 123 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: start to be cool heads prevail and that's why Tesla 124 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: stock will be up there. I think Tessa is way 125 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 3: over sold. Like, unless you think draconian, this goes into 126 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: like a dark period to me, I think we view 127 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 3: this as an opportunity. 128 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: So Dan, let's get back to the American consumer for 129 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: a second. So what I hear you saying is you're 130 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: assuming that Elon is not going to form a third 131 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: political party, which I think we can all say we're 132 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: relieved about. Has what's happened caused a measure of irreversible damage? 133 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: And if not, how long is this going to take 134 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: for the American consumer to disentangle hammer herself from the 135 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: politics of. 136 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: All and first, I'm disappointed you. I feel we are 137 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: matched today. But I'm not going to storial splendor. 138 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: It's it's but it's file. 139 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: Look, I don't I don't view that. I think it's 140 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 3: something there is brand damage and there was there is 141 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 3: things that must needs to turn around. In terms of us, 142 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 3: we said five seven potentially ten percent damage the American consumer. 143 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: Look, I think there's. 144 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 3: Confusion when it comes to us because obviously alienated you 145 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,679 Speaker 3: know many in Democratic Party. Now you actually alienating the republic. 146 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: So now it's like, if you want to alienate everyone, 147 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 3: you've actually done a great job. Okay, So now it's 148 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: point like, okay, how do we sort of build this back? 149 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: Does the board get involved? Because again it goes back 150 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: to the board needs. I think in a situation like this, 151 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: they do need to play a hand in some way 152 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 3: to make sure that this doesn't go off the rails. 153 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: If it's a junior high school situation, then there needs 154 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: to be an adult in the room. 155 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 4: You need a room. 156 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: You need a doll in the room with the prom. 157 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, get home, it's your curfew. Dan Ives 158 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: of Woodbush, thank you so much with your sartorial splendor. 159 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: Julian I love that phrase.