1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. Our Saturday classics over the last few 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: weeks have been on the heavier side, so we thought 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: we would pull something a little lighter out of the 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: archive today, and that is Johann Berenger's Fossils. Fossils kind 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: of goes in quotation marks there. Yeah. Uh. This is 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: a story that combines all of the key ingredients personality conflicts, 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: a hoax, and the delightful explanations that people came up 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: with for how to explain fossils before humanity had actually 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: worked out the science there. This originally came out on 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: April Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: My name is Holly Fry and I am Tracy V. Wilson, 13 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: and today we're going to a little bit about early 14 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: fossil study. Yes, when when we started on this podcast, 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: I was very sad that previous hosts had already talked 16 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: about the bone Wars, So I am glad that you 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: found a different, crazy fossil story for us to talk about. 18 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: It is It's one of those things that's often told 19 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,639 Speaker 1: in um archaeology studies as sort of a cautionary tale 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: to some degree, but it's kind of a fascinating little story, 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: and the tale that's often told is not really completely accurate. 22 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: So what we're talking about today is Johann Berenger and 23 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: he was born Johann Bartolomas Adam Berenger in sixteen sixty seven. 24 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: He was the son of a professor, Johann Ludwig Berenger, 25 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: and Berenger was an active scholar. He eventually became the 26 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: chair of natural history at the University of Wurtzburg and 27 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: he was also chief physician to the prince Bishop of Wurtzburg, 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: and the prince Bishop's patronage enabled Old Barringer to study 29 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: a hobby subject, which was fossils. But unfortunately Barringer was 30 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: by most accounts rather arrogant and conceded, which kind of 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: led to the events that ended up unfolding. Right, So, 32 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: there were several theories about the origins of fossils at 33 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: the time. There was the spermatic principle, and that was 34 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: that the results of marine animals mating could escape into 35 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: the sea and sometimes evaporate into the atmosphere, fall down 36 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: as rain, and grow new fish in the rock crevices 37 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: where the fertilized eggs fell, which is delightful. So the 38 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: theory there is that the fish examples that you would 39 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: find in fossils were actual fish that had grown in 40 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: the rock because they had fallen from the sky as 41 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: fertilized eggs. There's the helio memory theory, which is that 42 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: raised from the sun could sort of leave a photo 43 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: imprint onto stones of the things that the light had 44 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: already touched, which is also lightful. It is, and it 45 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: makes me think of photography a little bit in some ways. 46 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: It's kind of a fascinating theory to be rolling around 47 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: in the early seventeen hundreds, right, the sun was painting 48 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: pictures on things. So the next was the plastic theory, 49 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: and that's similar to the spermatic theory, but with the 50 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: fossils spontaneously growing inside of rocks. People had that same 51 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: theory about other animals, like living animals too. Yeah, it 52 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: was that that was used to confuse me. Generation was 53 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: popular as so goose neck clams were spawning geese in 54 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: people's minds at time. So then there's the signature of God, 55 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: which was Brenger's favorite and it is mine too because 56 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: I want to call it the slart of oart Bast 57 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: theory if you have ever read The Hitchhiker's Guide to 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: the Galaxy, and that's that God carved out the images 59 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: of animals and plants into the rocks when he was 60 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: making the earth. And Berenger believed that fossils were quote 61 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: stones of a peculiar sword, hidden by the author of 62 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: nature for his own pleasure, i e. They were made 63 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: by a higher power, often just out of a sense 64 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: of delight, rather than occurring via these other principles that 65 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: were in discussion at the time. And so to set 66 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: that up, uh, that kind of sets up our story, 67 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: which is, as we said, there are two versions. So 68 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: we're going to start with the first version, which is 69 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: kind of the legendary version. And according to this version, 70 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: again he Baringer was a professor at the time, and 71 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: on May thirty one, seventy five, two or sometimes three 72 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: depending on the source, students brought him fossil samples um 73 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: and there were three samples. One had a three dimensional 74 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: image of the sun and two had worms or worm 75 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: like markings on them. But they were raised up, they 76 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: weren't embedded inside the rock. They were on top of 77 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: it like extruded. So he was immediately excited and puzzled 78 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: by these stones. Um. And between the first delivery at 79 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: the end of May and November of sevent more sample 80 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: fossils followed. Yes, the students kept bringing him samples, and 81 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: these contained all kinds of different images, including heavenly objects 82 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: like comets with tales and moons, and then even things 83 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: like Hebraic letters. Uh, there were plants, there were insects, 84 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: there were small animals. Things that we would probably recognize 85 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: pretty quickly couldn't happen because a lot of them involved 86 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: soft tissue that would normally be broken down in a 87 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: fossil situation. But Berenger was just super excited by all 88 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: of these discoveries, right, and we as we've talked about before, 89 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: he was pretty arrogant and had a high opinion of 90 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: his own knowledge. So this is sort of a pride 91 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: go with before the Fall kind of situation. Yes, So 92 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: he allegedly received somewhere around two thousand of these stones, 93 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: which he thought were legitimate things. Yeah, So he after 94 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: studying them over the course of several months. As they 95 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: were coming in, he said about writing what he believed 96 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: would be a masterpiece in lithography study these, which lithography 97 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: is what fossils were called at the time, not the 98 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: modern meaning. Uh. And his seventeen twenty six book, The 99 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: Wurtzburg Lithography was this masterpiece which he thought was going 100 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: to be kind of his own scientific opus. And the 101 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: book features illustrations of the stones, and it discusses their 102 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: possible origins, including the theories that we mentioned at the 103 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: beginning of the podcast. While he was working on the book, 104 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: rumors started to circulate that the stones that he had 105 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: were fake contributor created by contemporary hoaxters with the goal 106 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: of seriously embarrassing him because he was pompous and pretentious. 107 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: And in his book, because these rumors did start to 108 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: circulate before it was complete, he actually includes an entire 109 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: chapter about the hoax rumors. UH. And I'm going to 110 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,799 Speaker 1: read a passage from it. It's a little bit lengthy, 111 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: but stick with us, uh, he says. Quote then, and 112 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: when I had all but completed my work, I caught 113 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: the rumors circulating throughout the city, especially among prominent and 114 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: learned men, that every one of these stones, which on 115 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: the advice of wise men, I proposed to expound in 116 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: a published treatise, were quote recently sculpted by hand, made 117 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: to look as though at different periods they had been 118 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: resurrected from a very old burial and sold to me 119 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: as one indifferent to fraud and caught up in the 120 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: blind greed of curiosity. Further that I, once deceived, in 121 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: my wretched turn, was deluding the world and trying to 122 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: sell new hoaxes as genuine antiques to the silent laughter 123 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: of prudent souls. I was shocked beyond words to learn 124 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: that the authors of this atrocious calumny were two men, 125 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: perhaps best described as a pair of antagonists whose names 126 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: I have reason to protect at present, men with whom 127 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: I was closely associated in numerous functions former colleagues in 128 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: the academic society. He went on in this whole chapter 129 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: about the hoax rumors to say, our idiomorphic stones are 130 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: not the handwrought products of recent artistry, as some persons 131 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: have shamelessly pretended and attempted to pedal to the public 132 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: by widespread rumor and gossip. So the two men he 133 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: keeps referring to but not naming are a geographer, ja 134 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: Ignance Roderick, who was a professor of geography, algebra and 135 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: analysis at the University of Wurzburg and a historian, George 136 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: van Eckhard, who was privy counselor and librarian to the 137 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: court and the university. Uh. But the hoax rumors, of course, 138 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: were indeed true. So he became so embarrassed, according to 139 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: the legend, when he found a stone that had his 140 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: name carved on it just as the book was rolling 141 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: off the presses and into the hands of the public. 142 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: And he was allegedly so chagrined at this and it 143 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: having having been pranked by students, that he tried to 144 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: buy up every copy of the book in existence and 145 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: bankrupted himself and died soon after the ordeal in misery 146 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: and destitution. So that's sort of legendary version of the story. Yes, 147 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: that's the extremely cautionary tale of a fossil hoax, and 148 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: the real story does have some seeds of truth in 149 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: that version, but there are some wide swings into the 150 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: realm of falsehood as well. The dates for the stones 151 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: being presented to Berenger in the publication of his book 152 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: R and D correct, But the mock nations of the 153 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: hoax and the manner in which it was revealed and 154 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: what happened post discovery are quite different, and the real 155 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: story was actually revealed in court documents and transcripts that 156 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: were found in the Votzburg State Archives. Dr Heinrich Kirshner 157 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: is recognized as the person who discovered these items in 158 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: although Melvin E. Yawn and Daniel J. Wolfe, who produced 159 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: the annotated and translated work of Berenger's book, are the 160 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: people that are cited with doing so. More often, Yawn 161 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: and wolf themselves cite Kirshner's work, and the story that's 162 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: told in the transcripts is really one and of academic envy. 163 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of just a drama that's playing out among 164 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: colleagues that are just kind of have vendetta's against one 165 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: another and have a jealousy at the heart of their relationship. 166 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: Uh Berenger did take students with him to dig for fossils, 167 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: and there were three in particular that were involved in 168 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: this particular episode. One was seventeen year old Christian Zonger 169 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: and two brothers, Nicholas who was eighteen and Valentine who 170 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: was fourteen Hayne. It turns out that the prank was 171 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: not something that they thought up themselves. It was a 172 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: plan on the parts of Jay Ignatz, Roderick, and George 173 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: vont Eckhart to use Berenger's own obstinates against him. Roderick 174 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: and Eckhart had apparently hired Zonga to polish stones for 175 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: them that Roderick had carved and sort of aged them 176 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: a little bit, and then Zonger would plant them in 177 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: dig sites, but some were also handed off to a 178 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: stone cutter's assistant to sell to Berenger, though he had 179 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: accidentally found them at sites, or as though he had 180 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: come into possession of them, kind of to support the 181 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: idea that it was natural by having these things come 182 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: from multiple sources instead of one stream of supply, which 183 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: might look suspicious, right, And part of the reason that 184 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: he was convinced that these fossil samples were the work 185 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: of God was the inclusion on some of the stones 186 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: of language that put them outside the natural imprint theory. Right. 187 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: While animals and plants happen in nature, letters don't. So 188 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: that's part of why Berenger, who was already a little 189 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: predisposed to think that these were divine creations, that just 190 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: supported that theory as far as he was concerned, rather 191 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: than dismissing the validity of the fossils as some people 192 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: might have approached them. Right, So, because the samples substantiated 193 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: his theories of fossils, of where fossils came from, as 194 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: cognitive bias kind of led him down the path of 195 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: words mean they're real instead of words mean they're fake. Yeah, 196 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: so he fell right into the trap set by his 197 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: fellow academics. And as berenger sample set grew and he 198 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: started working on his book in earnest Roderick and Eckart 199 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: apparently began circulating the hoax rumor because they were afraid 200 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: that if Berenger published the work without the hoax being revealed, 201 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: they could somehow be connected to the findings and would 202 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: be ruined along with their colleague. They were starting to 203 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: think that if he went ahead and published it, the 204 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: entire university would kind of be embarrassed, and they would 205 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: be embarrassed, and whether or not they were implicated as hoaxters, 206 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: it could be just a really bad scene. So they 207 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: didn't want him to publish the book. Now it was 208 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: partially covering their own behind. At this point. There's some 209 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: dispute as to how he was finally convinced that this 210 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: was a hoax. It is possible that he found a 211 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: rock with his name on it, but no such rock 212 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: has ever been recovered, and some accounts suggest that Roderick 213 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: and Eckhart had finally thought that things had gone too 214 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: far and that they outright told Berenger that the stones 215 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: were fakes, but he wouldn't believe their confession because he 216 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: was so convinced at that point. There's also a theory 217 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: that the church bishop was involved in convincing him of 218 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: the truth. This is a part of the story that 219 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: hasn't ever really been clear, and it's not referenced in 220 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: the court proceedings that we have to document it. Uh 221 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: And after the fraud was exposed, though, however, he was convinced, 222 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: Berenger took action, and on April thirteenth of seventeen twenty six, 223 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: there was a hearing at the Votzburg Cathedral chapter accusing 224 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: Roderick and Eckhart of trying to dop Berenger. So unlike 225 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: the legend story where he just is ashamed and tries 226 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: to hide the whole thing, he actually is pretty open 227 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: about trying to pursue his hoxters and bring them to justice. 228 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: Municipal trials followed all of this on April the fifteenth 229 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: and June eleventh of seventeen, twenty six. Uh. The young 230 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: aggers that were involved were questioned about their involvement, and 231 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: if you read the Yn and Wolf translation and annotation 232 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: of Berenger's book, the hearings are included in the appendices, 233 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: and all of the specific questions that they asked the 234 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: kids are in there, which we won't go through because 235 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: it really is kind of a long arduous Have you 236 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: ever carved a thing? Do you know how to carve? 237 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: I mean, they're really specific questions, and they go on 238 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: for quite a while. But the trial papers begin and 239 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,359 Speaker 1: end rather abruptly. We've talked about other trials on the podcast, 240 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: and there's often like we get the opening arguments and 241 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: the discussion and the lead in this kind of just 242 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: starts with questions to the kids and ends after the 243 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: June eleven trial, which was also questions. It doesn't really 244 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: get to what happened like in deliberation and discussion. Uh, 245 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: it just kind of includes the questions and the answers 246 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: Roderick tried to shift the blame to the boys Berenger 247 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: had hired to help him with his digs, and the 248 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: Haynes really appeared to be innocent in the whole thing. 249 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: There was apparently a bribe that was offered to Zanger 250 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: also to blame the hang the Han brothers, but Zanger 251 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: refused to take it. Yeah, so it pretty quickly became 252 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: apparent that Roderick and Eckhart were in fact guilty, and 253 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: they were disgraced when that became obvious. So the very 254 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: thing they had hoped to avoid by h pointing out 255 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: the hoax and starting the hoax rumors came to fruition 256 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: in their trial. So Zonga was implicated, but it doesn't 257 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: appear that any real punishment came to him because he 258 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: didn't know that they were faking these stones. But he 259 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: did ask the Commission for assistance in collecting eight days 260 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: worth of wages that Roderick owed him for polishing stones, 261 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: which I just thought was sort of funny. But in 262 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: the midst of all of this, he's like, yeah, they 263 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: were faking it, and he still owes me money for 264 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: this fraud. I sort of loved it. So what was 265 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: the motivation for all of this, It's that the antagonists 266 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: wanted to ruin Barranger because quote, he was so arrogant 267 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: and despised them all. Yeah, it was just as simple 268 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: as that. I have seen some kind of less um 269 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: dependable sources that suggested that there may or may not 270 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: have been a love affair involved between Um, one of 271 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: the other academics, and someone that was connected to Berenger, 272 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: but I never found any verification of that. It really 273 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: does in most articles and discussions of it kind of 274 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: come down to you. They just thought he was an 275 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: arrogant jerk, and they just wanted to put him in 276 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: his place. Let's show that jerk face with our fake fossils. Yeah. 277 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: And while tales of Baringer's shame and demise completely colored 278 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: the apocryphal story, as you said, it's kind of a 279 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: cautionary tale of, like, you know, don't fall for things 280 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: that you just want to believe, because you'll end up 281 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: poor and embarrassed and and die and early death because 282 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: of your shame. He actually emerged from the hoax or 283 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: deal pretty well in his time, and he went on 284 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: to write two more books that were not about fossils. Uh, 285 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: so he really came out pretty well in the whole deal. 286 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: So Eckhart, on the other hand, died four years after 287 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: the trial, and he had actually been working on a 288 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: history of the Duchy of Wurtzburg for many years, but 289 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: after this all happened, he was denied access to the 290 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: library archives uh, and he never got to finish that work. 291 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: Roderick left Wurtzburg in shame. Berenger died in seventeen forty, 292 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: which was fourteen years after the hoax trial. And even 293 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: though the remainder of his life seems to have gone 294 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: pretty well, he has not been treated terribly well by history. 295 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: He's become kind of a symbol of gullibility and um 296 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: the foolishness of cognitive bias. In seventeen sixty seven, which 297 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: was twenty seven years after his death and forty one 298 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: years after the original publication and trial, bereng Jer's Wurtzburg 299 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: lithography was republished and forty four hundred thirty four of 300 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: Berenger stones, which came to be known as lugensteina, which 301 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: literally means live stones or lying stones, actually survive. There 302 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: were four hundred and ninety four were depicted in the book, UH, 303 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: and many of the collection that remains are at the 304 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: University Museum at Oxford. Berenger claimed that he had received 305 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: more than two thousand, but it's possible that that's a 306 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: bit of an inflated number. So you can go visit 307 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 1: some of these stones. Some of them are apparently in 308 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: the hands of private collectors as well, because they are 309 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: still significant in their in antiquity and continue to be 310 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: a cautionary tale. Even though he did not die in shame. 311 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: Immediately after he went after the people that tried to 312 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: make a fool of him, which I kind of love 313 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: about the story. Don't be a jerk or fall prey 314 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: to your own humorous is the moral of this story. Yeah. 315 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: So that is the story of Johann Berenger's Lying Stones, 316 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: which I sort of just love. It's one of the 317 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: stories that we wish there were even more records. There 318 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: are no like portraits of him, for example, but I 319 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: still just love that it's studied and examined and UH, 320 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: as we've said, it's become most like a fairy tale 321 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: told to archaeology students on how not to be duped. 322 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday, since 323 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: this episode is out of the archive. If you heard 324 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: an email address or a Facebook U r L or 325 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: something similar over the course of the show, that could 326 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: be obsolete now. Our current email address is History Podcast 327 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: at i heart radio dot com. 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