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Now let's get into the show. 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 33 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 35 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 37 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 38 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 39 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast it 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 41 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 42 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: much for joining me for Session one seventy seven of 43 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Each October, we take 44 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: time to share resources and raise awareness of the continuing 45 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: ways intimate partner violence impacts our community. Today, we're digging 46 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: into what this looks like, particularly for black women, and 47 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: why there continues to be such a disparity in the 48 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: way domestic violence is regarded when it involves a Black woman. 49 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: Joining me for this conversation is Dr Caroline West. Dr 50 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: West is an award winning professor of psychology at the 51 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: University of Washington, where she teaches courses on family violence 52 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: and the psychology of Black women. She's the author of 53 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: Violence in the Lives of Black Women, Battered, Black and Blue, 54 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and producer of the documentary let Me Tell You All 55 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: About Black Chicks, Images of Black Women in Pornography. Dr 56 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: West and I discussed the role race plays and navigating 57 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: intimate partner violence, the idea of the perfect victim, and 58 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: suggestions for supporting women in your life who may be 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: suffering abuse. If something resonates with you during our conversation. 60 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: Please share with us on social media using the ashag 61 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: tbg in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much 62 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: for joining us today, Dr West, Thank you so much 63 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: for having me. Yeah, I'm very pleased that you were 64 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: able to join us and always appreciate having someone who 65 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: has a history and so much research that you've done, 66 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: if related to Black women as it relates to intimate 67 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: partner violence and domestic violence. And so I'm curious to 68 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: hear the evolution maybe of some of that work and 69 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: how it maybe looks different now than it did maybe 70 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: even teen years ago in doing the work. So what 71 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: we've learned in the last ten years or so, we 72 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: have better research, and that's one huge advance in the 73 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: field that I found. So I would say, think about 74 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: ten African American women that you know to be a friend, 75 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: of family, member, a coworker. Four of those women, according 76 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: to National Statistics, will be a victim of domestic violence, 77 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: sexual assault, or stalking after the age of eighteen at 78 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: the hands of an intimate partner. It really is a 79 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: very stark statistic when you share it, right, Like if 80 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: you think about yourself in a group of nine girlfriends. 81 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: That is quite a lot of people in the group 82 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: who will have been impacted by this exactly, and that's 83 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: that's devastating. Yeah, And so it sounds like you're suggesting 84 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: that it is not as urgent to people as it 85 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: really should be. Absolutely. I think in some ways, ironically, 86 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: with black women violence, it's so visible because it's impacting 87 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: us all the time, which makes it ironically really invisible 88 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: because nobody's talking about it. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And you know, 89 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, of course, we have a very public violence 90 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: that situation between I think they were in a relationship, 91 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: Tory Lanes and make the Stallion, right, and so we 92 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: have a very public example right now, and I think 93 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: it feels like it has brought together all of the 94 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: pieces of your research in this one incident. Right. So 95 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: we see that there has been lots of backlash against 96 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: Meg for sharing this information, But even on her end, 97 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: she was initially reluctant two press charges or to say 98 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: anything even on the scene because of fear for herself 99 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: and fear for him and the other people who were 100 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: there with them that evening. So I'm curious just to 101 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: hear more about your thoughts about how the media and 102 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: just you know, other black people have really kind of 103 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: really ganged up on her in a lot of ways 104 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: and are not necessarily believing her. And there were quite 105 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: a few memes shared when this initially happened. And even now, 106 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: you know, Tory Lanes has come out with a new album. 107 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm not listened to it. I wasn't a fan of 108 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: his music even before, but definitely not now. But you know, 109 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like there are some suggestions he's making on 110 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: the album that he didn't do it right. And so 111 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: it very much feels like the pain that she has 112 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: experience is not being taken seriously, and in some ways, 113 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: he's trying to invalidate that it even happened in the 114 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: ways that she's saying it did. And I think that 115 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: we need to understand that what happened to Meg, it's 116 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: actually a reality in the lives of too many African 117 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: American women. Black women are more likely to be killed 118 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: by an intimate partner at double the rates of white women. 119 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: Oftentimes when they're killed, they're killed by an intimate partner 120 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: in the context would you see a handgun in the 121 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: context of an argument? And so she was really lucky 122 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: actually that she didn't become one of those statistics. Yeah, yeah, 123 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: and it is very unfortunate, you know, both the incident 124 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: and the aftermath that we are now kind of seeing 125 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: play out on social media and in magazines and other 126 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: websites and stuff. And so I do want to hear 127 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: little bit more because it does feel like it's often 128 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: a very complicated situation. And I have a background in 129 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: college student mental health and so have worked with lots 130 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: of young women who maybe have been sexually assaulted and 131 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: feel very mixed feelings about whether they want to press charges. Right, 132 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: so we know again the backdrop in which we exist 133 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: in terms of police violence, and how our stories are 134 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: not often taken seriously in the system, and so there 135 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: is often some trepidation about do I prioritize, you know, 136 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: trying to get justice for myself versus what might happen 137 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: to this black man in the system. And I'd love 138 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: to hear more about, you know, what has come out 139 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: in terms of your work related to that. You know 140 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: that happens a lot, and I think it's deeply rooted 141 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: in history. I think historically, you know, black women have 142 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: known this from the very beginning, where we just don't 143 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: talk about these things because we know that there's a 144 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: safety issue, and it really is. We're really kind of 145 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: groomed and hart and encouraged to take sides against ourselves. 146 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, do you have some ideas about how we 147 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: can begin to kind of shift that conversation so that 148 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: we you know, and and again, I think it is 149 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: a very complicated situation, but it feels like the answer 150 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: can't always be at I expense exactly. I think part 151 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: of it is to just really start having critical conversations 152 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: about domestic violence and sexual assault, in all forms of 153 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: gender based violence within the community. I think oftentimes it's 154 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: this expectation or belief that women are lying but it's 155 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: not happening, that it's not really real. But as I 156 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: say it, with the statistics, if four out of ten 157 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: of us experience this, this is very real. So we 158 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: need to start opening our eyes and seeing that these 159 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: aren't strangers out there. These are people in your social 160 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: network that you know and listening to their stories and 161 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: hearing their stories and Dr West, is there a higher 162 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: likelihood of black women who come for with these stories 163 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: not being believed in in other groups. It's complicated, like 164 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: most things are and black women actually, when we look 165 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: at services and particularly like reporting to the police and 166 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: reporting to social services, we may tend to under report. Actually, 167 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: but then when we come forward and we talk about it, 168 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: we oftentimes are disbelieved or our victimization is not taken seriously. 169 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: And I think that has a lot to do with stereotypes. 170 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: And historically, you have to understand, from most of this 171 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: country's history, the rape laws were race specific, so they 172 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: didn't even cover black women. So for most of the 173 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: country's history, black women were not even rapeable under the law. 174 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: I mean, we know that the laws don't always protect us, 175 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: probably very often, but they weren't even on the books 176 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: for some time exactly. Yeah. Yeah, So what kinds of 177 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: things can we do in our own circles to try 178 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: to protect one another. How can we maybe initiate some 179 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: of these critical conversations that you're saying we need to have. 180 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: I think part of it is that we also have 181 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: to hold perpetrators accountable, and that doesn't tend to happen 182 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: very often. I think we have to carve out spaces 183 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: where we really challenge ourselves around the stereotypes, the miss 184 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: the misconceptions around domestic violence and sexual assault, that it 185 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: only happens to certain women and if you just do 186 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: everything right, that those are politics of respectability. You just 187 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: kind of keep your your dressed down and your legs close, 188 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: if you carry yourself quote unquote like a woman or 189 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: a lady, that these things won't happen to you. If 190 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: you aren't aggressive or you speak in a certain way, 191 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: that you're going to be protected. And so those are 192 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: really old tropes and misconceptions about who is being victimized, 193 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: because the reality is anybody or Yeah, so it makes 194 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: me think about this whole story around like the perfect victim, right, 195 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: that there is a way you know that if you, 196 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: like you said, keep your legs closed and where your 197 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: dress is long and all of these things that you know, 198 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: bad things won't necessarily happen to you. And we know 199 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: basically anybody could become a victim exactly exactly, and these 200 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: are the people that we know. You're more likely to 201 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: be victimized, not so much by a stranger, but somebody 202 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: who's in your social network. Yeah, it does feel like 203 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: very early on, and you probably can speak to this 204 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: better than I can with your years of research, but 205 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: it does feel like Historically, the messages around assault were 206 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: be careful about somebody jumping out of a bush on 207 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: the sidewalk, right, And clearly the research indicates that we 208 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: are much more likely to be victimized by somebody who 209 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: we actually know, not a stranger exactly, people within our 210 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: social network, within our family, or friendship network in our neighborhood, 211 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: or or intimate relationships. So I would let to hear 212 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: you say more about the whole idea of com modifying 213 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: my sexuality and having it so back to us. What 214 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: do you mean by that? What I mean by that 215 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: is I did a documentary called let Me Tell You 216 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: All about Black Checks Images of violence against Black women 217 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: in pornography, and the title comes from one of the 218 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: first interracial porn videos that was on the market in 219 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: and was taken off the market because it showed Clue 220 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: Klux Klan members having sex with black women. And so 221 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: everywhere we look around this culture, some aspects of hip hop, 222 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: not all pornography, all forms of sexualized media, black women 223 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: are kind of depicted. Is these hyper sexual, out of 224 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: control creatures that you can just do anything to us? 225 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: I wonder if there is an opportunity to discuss then 226 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, like most recently Megan Cardy have the example 227 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: of the WAP song, right, And so I think in 228 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: some ways you can see that as okay, are they 229 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: selling back what has kind of been internalized to them? 230 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: But where does black women kind of embracing their pleasure 231 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: and being free to be sexual, Like, where is the 232 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: spectrum there or is there a spectrum? I think that 233 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: there is a spectrum, and I think it's incumbent upon 234 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: all of us as individuals to decide what a healthy 235 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: sexuality is going to be for us as individuals. The 236 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: problem becomes when you you reduce your entire being to 237 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: your sexuality. The problem comes when Black women don't have 238 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: control over how they express their sexuality. And if you 239 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: are being sexual in spaces where you don't feel comfortable 240 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: with that because the whole culture and your partner expects 241 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: that of you and you don't feel like you can 242 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: say no, I would argue that that's not a healthy sexuality. 243 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: So be sure that it's internally driven, not driven by 244 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: the culture. I completely agree with you there that it 245 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: has to be something that you thought about, right, and 246 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: that this is how you want to express it as 247 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: opposed to this is all I feel like I can 248 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: do exactly exactly. Yeah. So, Dr West, you mentioned something 249 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: earlier and I want to follow up on this, the 250 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: whole idea of holding perpetrators accountable. And so again we 251 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: know that the justice system as it is set up 252 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: now doesn't typically work for us. So are there other 253 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: things or other ways that you have seen be successful 254 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: in terms of holding perpetrators accountable? That is such a 255 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: good question. You know, there is various justice programs were 256 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: instead of incarce rating perpetrators, getting them treatment, making sure 257 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: that they own what they've done and they apologize to 258 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: the victim and they try to make some restitution and 259 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: they try to make things right so that they're not 260 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: just shifting the focus two the victim, that they're owning 261 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: their part in the trauma and the violence. So that 262 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: could be restorative justice, right right. Yeah, I've definitely heard 263 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: something about that and have not at all, you know, 264 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: done a significant amount of research there, but I have 265 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: heard that as another framework to use, and I think 266 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: that that's where a lot of people struggle with, you know, 267 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: these conversations around abolition, right and defunding the police. People 268 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: are really concerned with, I think especially things like suxual 269 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: assault and domestic violence, because it does feel like, Okay, 270 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: how do we make sure that you know, other sisters 271 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: don't continue to be victimized by the hands of people 272 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: who wish us harm? Exactly. The project I'm working on 273 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: these days is a project out of Seattle called Survivors. First. 274 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: What we're hoping to do is to work with black 275 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: victim defendants. And these are are black women who actually 276 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: victims of domestic violence, but they end up getting arrested 277 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: at higher rates than other women of other ethnic backgrounds 278 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: when they use violence and self defense, and then they 279 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: end up in the legal system, and so they don't 280 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: get access to other services because you're treated like perpetrators. 281 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: And so how can we work with the prosecutor's office, 282 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: How can we work with saying maybe let's take a 283 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: second look. Oftentimes these women have an extensive background of 284 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: being victimized by the person that they're accused of assaulting. 285 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: So what we need to do is in put them 286 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: in contact with social service agencies so that they can 287 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: get the help that they need, not arresting them and 288 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: throwing them in jail. Yeah, they definitely have been some 289 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: pretty higher file cases recently that we've heard, you know, 290 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: people defending themselves and then going to jail for a 291 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: significant amount of time. Well, we're saying Alexander Yes in Florida, Uh, 292 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: Cintia Brown, who is woman who is being trapped her 293 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: her abuser and then was looking at a lifetime in 294 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: jail prison right right, Yeah, And it really feels again, 295 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: I think that's just another example of how the justice 296 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: system is not really set up to protect us in 297 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. We're not believed and we're not Yeah. Yeah, 298 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: so it again goes back to your earlier point about 299 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: just us not being believed. Let's take a quick break 300 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: here to hear a word from our sponsors. Support for 301 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: today's podcast comes from the number one new scripted series 302 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: on cable, Tyler Perry's Systems on BT. The Juicy two 303 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: Hours Season two premiere happens tonight at nine Central on BT. 304 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: Grab your popcorn and be sure to use the hashtag 305 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: exists on BT as you watch live. We also have 306 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: a quick message paid for by the Leadership Conference Education Fund. 307 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: Remember that you don't have to wait until November three 308 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: to cast your ballot. You can be an October voter. 309 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: In most states, you can vote early, request your mail ballot, 310 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: return your completed ballot in the mail or in person, 311 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: or vote early at an early voting location. Let's all 312 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: do our part to try to make sure all voices 313 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: are heard, make a plan to vote, visit, and still 314 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: I vote dot org to join the fight for voting 315 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: rights today. Now let's get back into our conversation. So 316 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: I want to hear more Dr West, since you brought 317 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: up the idea of working with this program called Survivors. First, 318 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: we know, of course, that we are still in the 319 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: midst of a pandemic. We know that for some time, 320 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: lots of businesses were closed and I think are still 321 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: primarily closed. And I know that there has been a 322 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: huge impact even though we've seen an increase in like 323 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: calls for domestic violence. If we know anytime there's a 324 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: major stress like this, there is a likelihood of increasing 325 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: instances of domestic violence as well as child abuse. But 326 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: a lot of those services were closed, right, like the shelters. 327 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: And so I'm curious to hear if there are ways 328 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: that you've heard organizations be able to shift to offer 329 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: their service digitally, Like what kinds of resources are even 330 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: available given that we're all still in a pandemic. That's 331 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: the real challenge. I mean, oh, it's exceedingly complex, and 332 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: social services were understaffed, under resource even before the pandemic, 333 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: And so I think what's going to need to happen 334 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: next is that October it is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, 335 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: and as also as individuals have to reach out to 336 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: these social services and say what is it you need 337 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: and how can we help as a community, because it's 338 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: got to be a community based response. So it could 339 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: just be something simple as donating money so that survivors 340 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: can stay in a hotel for some time, or donating 341 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: clothes or food so that they have some economic resources. 342 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: It is a problem. We'd have to be calling the 343 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: National Domestic Violence Hotline and seeing what services are available 344 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: in your community. I mean, it was a struggle even 345 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: before the pandemic, and like you're mentioning, now that you 346 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: know so many offices you can't necessarily visit in person, 347 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: it has become even more of a struggle. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, 348 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: so I am curious out to west to hear You know, 349 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: we talk a lot about social media here on the 350 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: podcast and the ways that it can often be helpful 351 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: but also harmful and I'm wondering if you have seen 352 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: an evolution in your research and looking at like the 353 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: impact that social media has in the mystic violence, or 354 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: in the ways that needs and things like contribute to 355 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: this gender violence. Can you share anything about that. Absolutely, 356 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: social media in all forms of technology, has just absolutely 357 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: made things more challenging. You can put cameras up, cameras 358 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: are available and smaller, and you can actually put those 359 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: up in the victim's house and be able to stalk 360 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: them virtually in that way. You can harass them and 361 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: stalk them on social media. You can put a tracking 362 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: device in their car or in their purse, so you 363 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: know where they are all the time. So with social 364 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: media and technology, stalking has become much more complex as 365 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: a form of violence. We're seeing more of that. Yeah, 366 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: it does also feel like the whole idea of like 367 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: leaking people's news is an additional thing that the laws, 368 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: it feels like, have yet to catch up to. That is, 369 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: of course another way in which people are violate it, right, 370 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: It's called revenge porn. Yeah, and so that is something 371 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: that that's happening a lot. So you share nuds maybe 372 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: within the context of a personal relationship and that can 373 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: be used to harass the victim afterwards, or they could 374 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: be taken without her knowledge and consent. M Yeah, so 375 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, Dr Wes, the whole idea of their 376 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: still being some huge misconceptions related to intimate partner violence. 377 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: Can you share some of the things that you feel 378 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: like are the biggest misconceptions. I think one of the 379 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: biggest misconceptions is that victims deserve it. They've done something 380 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: to create the problem of why they're being victimized, and 381 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: if they just changed their behavior that it wouldn't happen, 382 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: rather than seeing what's going on with this perpetrator that 383 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: he's doing this, so the victims enjoy it, that they are, 384 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: you know, stupid or they're emotionally defective in some way 385 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: if they can't just leave. One common misconception I here 386 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: all the time, well, if it's not bad, just leave, 387 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: just leave. People don't understand that leaving is a process 388 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: and it's not always easy to disconnect yourself from a relationship. 389 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: So those are really common ones when we've talked about 390 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: this in the community before. This whole idea of if 391 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: it's that bad, then just leave, and not understanding all 392 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: of the things that need to be in place even 393 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: for somebody to have an attempt at leaving successfully, and 394 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: the evidence that we have that talks about that being 395 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous times, you know, in a 396 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: survivora's life, we need to understand that that's exactly right 397 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: because leaving and I'm not saying don't leave, but there's 398 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: safety planning that you may have to put in place. 399 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: Where are you gonna go? But making sure that you 400 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: have your children's first certificates in your documentation when you leave, 401 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: How are you going to you know, provide for yourself 402 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: when you leave? How can you keep other family members 403 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: safe when you leave? So there's got to be safety 404 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: planning in place because leaving oftentimes may trigger an escalation 405 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: in the partment's You know something drs I have been 406 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: thinking about and I don't know if there's any research 407 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: that supports it, but it feels, at least in the 408 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: stories that I hear in the news that when women 409 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: are killed by their partners, it often happens at their 410 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: places of employment. Is there anything behind it? Leaving certainly 411 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: can trigger that. Getting order protection can trigger that. And 412 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: if you have a perpetrator who has those kinds of 413 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: control concerns and the belief that if I can't have you, 414 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: no one else can. And if they're they're really motivated 415 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: to commit this homicide, they'll commit it wherever you are, 416 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: within the home, in your workplace, wherever they can find you. 417 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: So that may just be anecdoto. There's no real research 418 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: that you've seen that talks about an increase of life 419 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: violence happening at the workplace so much in terms of 420 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: an increase, we just know that it can happen. Yeah, 421 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: and so I haven't seen any research that indicates that 422 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: we've seen an upticking and happening within the workplace, but 423 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: it certainly does, which is another reason we should all 424 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: care about this because it's not something that's just hidden 425 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: behind doors that can happen anywhere. So are there things 426 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: that we should be kind of on the lookout for with, 427 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: you know, people in our communities that might indicate to 428 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: us that something might be going on? Are certain questions 429 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: we should ask. Yeah, I think that there is a 430 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: danger assessment that we do as researchers, and we look 431 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: for things. Has there been a history of violence before, 432 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: does a person have a history of drug and alcohol use? 433 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: Is there stalking? Is a person abusing the victim when 434 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: she's pregnant. Perpetrators who are both physically and sexually abusing 435 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: are more potentially dangerous. Is a perpetrator suicidal? Perpetrators who 436 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: feel like I don't have anything to lose may not 437 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: have a problem killing themselves. And and the victim, do 438 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: you have a child with a perpetrator who's not their 439 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: biological child? Is a perpetrator unemployed and has lost employment. 440 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: All of those are things that could be potential risk 441 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: factors for the person who may actually try to take 442 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: your life. M can you say more about the pregnancy risk, 443 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: like why that increases the likelihood of violence? You know, 444 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you asked. That Black women experience certain 445 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: types of violence at higher rates than other women of 446 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: other ethnic backgrounds. So we are more likely, as I mentioned, 447 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: to be killed by an intimate partner. We are more 448 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: likely to be strang gold by an intimate partner. Can 449 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: you imagine somebody trying to choke the life out of you. 450 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: Black women experience that at higher rates, and we're more 451 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: likely to experience higher rates of what we call reproductive corsion. 452 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: And that's a special type of sexual violence that involves 453 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: pregnancy corsions. So the perpetrator is going to try to 454 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: pressure you to become pregnant by not allowing you to 455 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: use birth control or saying I'm gonna end this relationship 456 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: if you don't have a baby. Birth control sabotage, so 457 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: they're going to remove that condom. They're not going to 458 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: allow you to take birth control pills or throw away 459 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: your birth control, and they're going to try to control 460 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: pregnancy outcomes, pressure you to have an abortion or pressure 461 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: you to keep the child, and you don't want to 462 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: carry the pregnancy the term. So pregnancy just puts you 463 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: higher risks because obviously if you're pregnant, it's going to 464 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: be harder to escape the violence, to protect yourself, to 465 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: get security, and that's just a stressful time in relationships 466 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: when there's a pregnancy got you and Dr West, I 467 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: wonder if there are things that you're already thinking about 468 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: in terms of the increases in domestic violence that we 469 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: may see on the other side of the pandemic, Like, 470 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: are there things that you're already thinking about kind of 471 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: about what's gonna be happening once we're done with the pandemic. 472 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: Black women are living within multiple pandemics. So even when 473 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: the pandemic ends, we're experiencing our violence in the context 474 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: of structural violence, poverty, homelessness. We're living with community violence 475 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: within our community. So many of us were living with 476 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: historical trauma. It's not even historical because it's ongoing. When 477 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: Brianna Taylor shot in her band by the police, this 478 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: is not even back in historical this is today, and 479 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: so we're living in multiple pandemics, institutional violence when we 480 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: seek help for or intimate partner violence from the medical 481 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: system and the police. So I think we're going to 482 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: have to work harder to wrap our arms individually also 483 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: around victims in our community and asking them what is 484 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: it they need to be safe? Mm hmmm, Yeah, So, 485 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: like you mentioned earlier, making sure that we're you know, 486 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: donating to systems who may have to kind of pivot 487 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: and do in some of the work digitally, but also 488 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: very directly asking like, what is it that you need 489 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: to be safe? Were is that you need to be safe? 490 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: And how can I be a part of creating that? 491 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: And asking the women and girls in our lives what's 492 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: going on in your family? Do you feel safe? Is 493 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: there something that you need to talk about and opening 494 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: the door so we can have those conversations. Yeah, So 495 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: what is leaving you hopeful in this word, doctors, what 496 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: kinds of things are you kind of seeing on the 497 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: horizon that you feel like we'll make an impact in 498 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: the work that you've done. What's leaving me hopeful these 499 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: days is for myself just working towardstitutional change. I've been 500 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: expert witness for many years and talking to women who 501 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: are in jail or trying to help women get out 502 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: of jail after they have killed intimate partners or defended themselves. 503 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: What's keeping me hopeful is that at this historical time, 504 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: when we're talking about Black lives matter, that if we 505 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: can shift the narrative to not just talking about violence 506 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: against our community, but like Kimberly Crenshaw says, say her name, 507 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: that if we can start saying the names of victims 508 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: of gender based violence, that we can really move towards 509 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: making some change in this area. Yes, yes, I mean 510 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: her work around intersectionality. Right. So you mentioned earlier the 511 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: whole idea of like choosing am I gonna be black now? 512 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: Or am I going to be a woman, when really 513 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: there's no way for us to choose. We are both 514 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: black and women. Yeah, yeah, I guess I would say 515 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: to to black women out there. It reminds me of 516 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: a song by Nina Samon you just gotta learn to 517 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: leave the table when love is no longer being served. 518 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, you gotta to leave the table when love 519 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: is no longer being served and doing some real self 520 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: reflection and saying if this relationship isn't working for me, 521 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: if I don't feel like I'm being honored, respected and 522 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: treated well to know when it's time to leave the table. 523 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: So where can we find you? Dr? West? Can you 524 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: share your website as well as any social media handles 525 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: that you want to share with us? Yeah, the best 526 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: way to find me is through my website Wwwdr Caroline 527 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: West dot com and I have articles, videos, and other information. 528 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: They are free for download for people who just want 529 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: to learn more about this topic. Yes, we will definitely 530 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: be including that in the show notes. But we so 531 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing your information with us today, Doctor West, 532 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad 533 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: that Dr West was able to share her x ortias 534 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: with us today. To learn more about her work, be 535 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black 536 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: Girls dot Com slash Session one seventy seven, and don't 537 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: forget to share this episode with two sisters in your 538 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: life who might appreciate the conversation. If there's a topic 539 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: you'd like to have covered on the podcast, please submit 540 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: it at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash mailbox, 541 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: and if you're looking for a therapist in your area, 542 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy 543 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory. If you want 544 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic and connect with some 545 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: other systems in your area, come on over and join 546 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a 547 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just 548 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for 549 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank you 550 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I 551 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: look forward to continue in this conversation with you all 552 00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care, the best, the best pitch