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Speaker 1: Hi, This is Chase Utley and this is the Phillies Show.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, Welcome to The Philly Show with Ruben Tomorrow, Junior,

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Speaker 2: Jim Saulisbury. I am todd Z a lucky It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: September fourth, twenty twenty four. Although full disclosure, I'm actually

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Speaker 2: recording this on Monday. And I'm recording this on Monday

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Speaker 2: because we just finished talking with John Smoltz. John Smoltz,

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Speaker 2: you might remember him as the Hall of Fame pitcher

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Speaker 2: for the Braves, longtime Phillies tormentor and current Fox broadcaster.

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Speaker 2: John was in town this weekend for the Braves Phillies

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Speaker 2: game on Saturday night on Fox. And of course, the

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Speaker 2: Phillies won three out of four this weekend, putting them

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Speaker 2: in position, a very good position when their first NLA's

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Speaker 2: title since twenty eleven. And so we wanted to have

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Speaker 2: John on because of course, you know, he's seen it

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Speaker 2: all and done it all in Major League Baseball in

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Speaker 2: his career, but we wanted to get his opinion on

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Speaker 2: the Phillies and their chances to win the World Series

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Speaker 2: and and you know, pitching in Zach Wheeler and Aaron

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Speaker 2: Nola and I think You're going to really enjoy this.

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Speaker 2: I think you're going to be interested to hear what

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Speaker 2: John Smoltz has to say about the talent and depth

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Speaker 2: on this Phillies roster compared to where they fit in

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Speaker 2: against the other best teams in Major League Baseball. I

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Speaker 2: think you're going to really find what he has to

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Speaker 2: say about Zach Wheeler and Aaron Nola interesting. And one

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Speaker 2: story I had not heard I think Jim might have

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Speaker 2: written about this back in the day, was when John

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Speaker 2: was a free agent at one point with the Braves,

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Speaker 2: the Phillies reached out to him. A young Rubin Tomorrow

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Speaker 2: junior assistant GM reached out and tried to entice John

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Speaker 2: Smoltz to come to Philadelphia with a very unique perk.

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Speaker 3: Very cool.

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Speaker 2: I wish somebody would offer me a perk like this.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, here you go. Here's our talk with John Smoltz.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy John.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for spending some time with us.

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Speaker 2: I know you were in Philly this weekend and you

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Speaker 2: did the game the other night. Phillies take three out

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Speaker 2: of four. A lot of Phillies fans are excited. One

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Speaker 2: it would love to get your thoughts, just in general

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Speaker 2: on this Phillies team, and everybody wants to know, can

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Speaker 2: this team finally take the next step and win a

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Speaker 2: World Series?

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Speaker 3: What do you think?

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Speaker 4: I definitely have been saying it all year. They have

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Speaker 4: the best overall roster in the National League. There's injuries

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Speaker 4: all over the place, and they have been more than

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Speaker 4: fortunate than the rest of some teams to sustain those

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Speaker 4: which you never know how that's going to play out, right,

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Speaker 4: I mean the Dodgers are a perfect example in the

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Speaker 4: last few years how winning one hundred games is not

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Speaker 4: as big as being able to be healthy at the

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Speaker 4: right time of the year. And I think last year.

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Speaker 4: I'm not a big believer in momentum. Let's just say

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Speaker 4: a team is trending in the right direction as they

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Speaker 4: end the season. I don't know that that carries over

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Speaker 4: into the next season, right, But having said that, when

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Speaker 4: you lose the way that the Philadelphia Phillies lost last year,

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Speaker 4: and it's a shock to your system, I think that

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Speaker 4: adds value to every individual going in the offseason going,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to do whatever I take for that to

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Speaker 4: never happen again, right, to not lose home field advantage.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Arizona shocked everybody last year, so it wasn't

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Speaker 4: just the Philadelphia Phillies, and I just.

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Speaker 3: Think it served them well.

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Speaker 4: I think experience is as good as you putting yourself

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Speaker 4: in position to utilize it. And I think what Philadelphia

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Speaker 4: has done this year after getting off to a slow start.

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Speaker 4: Every team goes through the EBB and flows, every offense

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Speaker 4: gets dormant, every team has the glass half full, and no.

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Speaker 3: One's immune from it.

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Speaker 4: But as a national broadcaster, I look from afar and

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Speaker 4: I'm not tied to the local team like local broadcasters are.

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Speaker 4: And I used to laugh every time I'd come into

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Speaker 4: a city and the local broadcast, Oh we are not

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Speaker 4: very good or we got this because they see it all.

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Speaker 4: But I just think they're poised to be. The formula

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Speaker 4: is you've got to have two or three really studs

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Speaker 4: in your rotation, which they do. You've got to have

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Speaker 4: a back end of the rotation that's solid, which they do.

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Speaker 4: And their offense is deep. It's built around the home runs,

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Speaker 4: but they can manufacture run. So you know, I've been

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Speaker 4: saying this, not just because I'm on your Guys' show.

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Speaker 4: I've been saying, the Philadelphia Phillies to me, have what

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Speaker 4: it takes to go all the way.

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Speaker 5: So John I had one question about is there a

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Speaker 5: real thing as far as that rivalry is concerned regarding

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Speaker 5: this Atlanta Braves Phillies rivalry. Is there like a real

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Speaker 5: rivalry going on here? Is this something that you feel

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Speaker 5: and sense having been around it?

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Speaker 4: Well, rivalries are only good when two teams are good.

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Speaker 4: So to say that last three or four years as

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Speaker 4: a rivalry, it would be accurate. Because what Philadelphia was

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Speaker 4: able to do when the Braves are having a supernatural

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Speaker 4: year is knock them off twice you win the division,

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Speaker 4: which the Braves have done and looks like they're not

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Speaker 4: going to do this year. The rivalry could be incredibly

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Speaker 4: amped up if the reverse gets to happen in Atlanta's

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Speaker 4: eyes right the postseason. It's not a crap shoot, but

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Speaker 4: it's not a guarantee based on the way you played

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Speaker 4: in the regular season. That's why I think you have

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Speaker 4: to be built a certain way to sustain the tournament of.

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Speaker 3: Winning eleven wins or whatever it is. Now. You know,

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Speaker 3: in our day you had to win eleven wins.

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Speaker 4: And I think the thing that about rivalries is, you know,

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Speaker 4: you got to have two teams that are at the

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Speaker 4: top and right now, the Atlanta Braves in Philadelphia, minus

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Speaker 4: the Los Angeles Dodgers, have been the most consistent thing

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Speaker 4: in the nationalink.

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Speaker 5: So John, let's get away from baseball for one second.

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Speaker 5: I know you are a extremely great golfer. Number one.

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Speaker 5: I'm very jealous because I play one thousand rounds a

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Speaker 5: year and I cannot even get close to where you are.

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Speaker 5: I want to know where is. I know you love

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Speaker 5: playing in Philly because there's a lot of courses there.

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Speaker 5: Tell me about your favorite courses and they're in the

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Speaker 5: Philadelphia area and why you like to come there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there are so many. I mean there's still some

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Speaker 4: I haven't played that. How many golf courses they have

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Speaker 4: and in this area. Look back when I won the

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Speaker 4: cy Young Philadelphia made me one of the greatest offers

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Speaker 4: that it was hard to pass up. I thought it

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Speaker 4: was brilliant in the way that they were kind of

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Speaker 4: throwing out Maryon and Pine Valley on top of the contract,

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Speaker 4: which got my interests very very perked my interest. But

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm I'm a Marion fan. I love Marion. You know,

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Speaker 4: Pine Valley's great as well. It's always the political choice

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Speaker 4: of you know which which one, but.

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Speaker 3: The Cricket Club. I mean, there's so many.

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Speaker 4: Union League at Liberty Hill is one of my favorite.

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Speaker 4: It's a gem that you know, not a lot of

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Speaker 4: people know about. It's just a great golf course. I'm

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Speaker 4: partial to the Northeast golf course. Flavor of grass and

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Speaker 4: look and it just it's what made my career lasts

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Speaker 4: as long as I did. It's what made our pitching

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Speaker 4: staff flourish. We played golf and when I was the

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Speaker 4: closer and I was going through the gamut here in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 4: which they had a really good lineup back in that day.

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Speaker 4: Greg Maddox always talks about one of the most unbelievable

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Speaker 4: days or two days that he had ever seen.

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Speaker 3: We had a day off and walk thirty six.

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Speaker 4: Holes at Marion and then the next night I had

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Speaker 4: to come into one of those one run saves after

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Speaker 4: playing golf the next day, and he still calls it

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Speaker 4: one of the one of the most unbelievable performances he's

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Speaker 4: ever seen.

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Speaker 3: It was only an inning, but you know, I I.

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Speaker 4: Loved every bit of coming to Philadelphia with the with

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Speaker 4: the tiny exception I didn't like facing their lineup, their

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Speaker 4: their lineup had some guys with the name of Utley

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Speaker 4: and Rollins, and you know they they just always gave

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Speaker 4: me fits.

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Speaker 2: So when you were a free agent, we were just

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Speaker 2: talking about this John, and we think Rubin says, I

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Speaker 2: think I told John that if he could come here,

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Speaker 2: we could hook him up with a membership or or.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Mary, I think I was the assistant GM at

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Speaker 5: the time. I think Ed Wade would have been the

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Speaker 5: Uh was the was the GM?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm telling you. When my agent told me that,

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Speaker 3: I was like, WHOA.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to stay, obviously in Atlanta, and we were

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Speaker 4: having a hard time negotiating. I was a free agent

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Speaker 4: four times. That's hard to do if you're going to

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Speaker 4: stay in one city. And I kind of tied my

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Speaker 4: hands by saying openly that I wanted to play my whole.

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Speaker 3: Career with the Atlanta Braves.

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Speaker 4: So in nineteen ninety six, when I had my dream year,

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Speaker 4: the offers were pretty good, and of course New York

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Speaker 4: and Philly were in the mix. But when Philly made

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Speaker 4: that offer, it was like, WHOA, I'm going to think

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Speaker 4: about that, because if I'm going to leave, I'm going

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Speaker 4: to leave for that kind of perk that would have

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Speaker 4: been That have been great.

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Speaker 1: Pop quiz AJ What's America's number one meal kit?

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Speaker 6: That would be Hello Fresh Scott And it even works

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Speaker 6: for picky eaters like you. There's a never changing menu

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Speaker 6: of fifty recipes to choose from each week, so just

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Speaker 6: select your meals and delivery date and.

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Speaker 1: Voila home cooked meals just hit different.

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Speaker 7: Agreed with FT every day and my coaching job, I

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Speaker 7: don't have time to search recipes all night and also

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Speaker 7: spending money on a whole our spices for only a pinch. Nah,

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Speaker 7: I'm good my family gets more of me because I

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Speaker 7: don't have to take a last minute trip to the

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Speaker 7: grocery store at night to find dinner.

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Speaker 6: life just by going to HelloFresh dot com slash fr

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Speaker 6: ee f T.

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Speaker 8: Well, you mentioned John. You mentioned golf, you know helped

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Speaker 8: you wouldn't have the career you had if you couldn't

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Speaker 8: play golf. I'm sure it build camaraderie with your teammates

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Speaker 8: and your fellow pitchers and field your competitiveness and probably

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Speaker 8: was a really valuable outlet for you away from baseball.

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Speaker 8: What happens if you get stuck on a team with

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Speaker 8: one of those managers that say no golf clubs on

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Speaker 8: trips because I've seen them.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I promise you. In free agency, I told my agent,

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Speaker 4: do not even talk to a team that won't allow

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Speaker 4: us to play.

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Speaker 3: In all sincerity, I mean, I look, I was.

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Speaker 4: Very content in Atlanta. I played for the greatest manager

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Speaker 4: of all time in Bobby Cox. I took less money

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Speaker 4: every single time. It was a choice that I made

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Speaker 4: with no regrets. But if I had to go and

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Speaker 4: look for somewhere else, it was not going to be

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Speaker 4: a place that didn't allow me to play golf. And

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Speaker 4: I don't say that as an arrogant. I say that

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Speaker 4: as a lifestyle choice because I didn't do anything.

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Speaker 3: I was boring. I didn't go out, I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Do anything else in baseball other than the activity of

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Speaker 4: playing golf.

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Speaker 3: Kept my mind fresh, kept my body fresh.

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Speaker 4: And when you break it down, unless you are a

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Speaker 4: twenty handicapper, you're really not exerting much when you play golf.

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Speaker 4: And I'll never forget when I went to the closures role.

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Speaker 4: John Schuerholtz I had set him up as our general

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Speaker 4: manager at Castle Pines and I was there too, and

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Speaker 4: he saw me, and he realized, well, what if you

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Speaker 4: got to get in that night. And he asked me

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Speaker 4: if he thought that that was going to bother me

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Speaker 4: as a close and I said, listen, I I this

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Speaker 4: is not I checked it with Bobby Cox.

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Speaker 3: I said, this is not going to affect me. I

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Speaker 3: played golf early in the morning.

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Speaker 4: If I want to come back to the hotel and

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Speaker 4: take a nap, I don't pitch till ten thirty at night. Like,

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Speaker 4: if I can't get three outs at ten thirty at

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Speaker 4: night doing the things that I have to, I'm always going.

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Speaker 3: To be prepared, then I don't deserve doing this role.

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Speaker 4: Well, it caused a lot of stir but then fifty

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Speaker 4: five saves later, they never questioned me about playing golf again.

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Speaker 2: Frenchie mentioned that great story about Bobby Cox a spring

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Speaker 2: training game. You guys, I don't know if you were

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Speaker 2: in that group. John Tiger Woods was playing. I guess

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Speaker 2: you know he lives in Orlando, and and Bobby told

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Speaker 2: French she, you know, tried to fake like a leg injury.

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Speaker 2: Running on the line so you can get out and

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Speaker 2: join up with Tiger. But I mean that was Bobby Cox.

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Speaker 3: I guess right.

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Speaker 2: He understood you can play golf with Tiger.

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Speaker 3: Let's get out of here. Listen.

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Speaker 4: He understood the personalities of a player, and we were

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Speaker 4: not as pitchers, going to take advantage of anything that

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Speaker 4: made it look bad for Bobby allowing us to do it.

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Speaker 4: I heard stories that he would tell newcomer signed players

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Speaker 4: of like position players. He'd call them into the office

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Speaker 4: and he said, see those three guys out there, they're

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Speaker 4: going to go do their thing, and they're going to

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Speaker 4: be gone every day at eleven thirty. Get over it,

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Speaker 4: because that's how we're going to win this year. They're

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Speaker 4: going to be here at six thirty in the morning,

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Speaker 4: but they're going to leave at eleven thirty and they're

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Speaker 4: going to the golf course. Bobby let me go play

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Speaker 4: during spring training on a Sunday, two to three weeks

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Speaker 4: before the Masters, to play with Tiger. Flew me to

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Speaker 4: Augusta and had me back by three pm. Now can

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Speaker 4: you imagine what, how how that could have gone if

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Speaker 4: if you didn't have kind of the manager and nobody

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Speaker 4: found out. But the fact that he let me do

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Speaker 4: it was amazing. It is the reason why we would

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Speaker 4: run through a wall. For the manager, he understood the game.

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Speaker 4: He understood how hard it was, he understood the nuances

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Speaker 4: that come along.

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Speaker 3: You know. The things that he would do as a

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Speaker 3: manager probably would get you fired today.

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Speaker 4: But he would go around and ask every you know,

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Speaker 4: he would ask the coaches to go ask every player

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Speaker 4: what incentives they had so he could figure out if

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Speaker 4: that was doable and get them as many chances because

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Speaker 4: he knew the game for the individual, not the superstar,

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Speaker 4: but the individual that wasn't going to have a long

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Speaker 4: career that was important to them. And this is the

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff that he would do. And oh, by

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Speaker 4: the way, you know, we won.

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Speaker 3: So it worked, sure did John.

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Speaker 8: You were like a twenty second round draft pick by

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Speaker 8: the Tigers. I'm sure there was a reason you were

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Speaker 8: not hired. Probably your commitment to Michigan State.

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Speaker 3: Right, I would think so.

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Speaker 4: I always wanted to figure that out, you know, I

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Speaker 4: signed really early to go to Michigan State before the draft,

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Speaker 4: and I just wanted to get that off my plate.

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Speaker 3: I knew that's where I wanted to go. College was

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Speaker 3: a big deal.

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Speaker 4: Back then, money at first round was not I mean,

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Speaker 4: it was relative, but it was. To give you an example,

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Speaker 4: it was one hundred thousand dollars. That was first round

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Speaker 4: money back then. And I had an unbelievable coach by

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Speaker 4: the name of Tom Smith who was coaching Michigan State.

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Speaker 4: He actually helped me during the process, which I can't

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Speaker 4: think of many college coaches. I was going to be

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Speaker 4: their first ever full scholarship baseball player and I lived

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Speaker 4: fifteen twenty minutes from the campus. But I got drafted late.

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Speaker 4: Was really frustrated, and I used it as a chip

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Speaker 4: on my shoulder, to be honest. I had one of

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Speaker 4: the greatest summers after that, and at my stock increased

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Speaker 4: and the Tigers drafted me with a kind of a

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Speaker 4: whim like you never know. They knew my ties to

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Speaker 4: the Tigers. My grandfather worked on a ground crew for

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Speaker 4: over eighteen years, and there was just so many ties

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Speaker 4: to the organization, and so I think they thought they

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Speaker 4: could sign me for peanuts use the twenty second round excuse,

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Speaker 4: and I think they were shocked to find out that

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Speaker 4: I didn't budge and my dad did the negotiations, and

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Speaker 4: I told my dad, I said if I don't get

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Speaker 4: first round money.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to Michigan State.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to play basketball and baseball, and I'll again

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Speaker 4: no regrets. We negotiated for like five six weeks and

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Speaker 4: finally got to first round money and I signed on

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Speaker 4: the last day of signing Monday morning was my first

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Speaker 4: day of class. Sunday night, I signed, and I went

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Speaker 4: on a journey that most young players would never get

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Speaker 4: the opportunity. There was no rookie ball, there was no instruction,

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Speaker 4: There's nothing at that point. So I had to go

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Speaker 4: up with the big leagues and hang out with the

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Speaker 4: big league team who had just come off a World

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Speaker 4: Series championship, and for the last month of the season,

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Speaker 4: I got to see what big league life was like,

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Speaker 4: just kind of hanging around and so it was a

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Speaker 4: really cool experience, even though it was a tough you

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Speaker 4: talk about in mind twisting five weeks that was that

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Speaker 4: was something that you know was tough.

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Speaker 3: But I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

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Speaker 8: How I was wondering picking up on that, how is

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Speaker 8: your life, your career, all of everything different if you're

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Speaker 8: not traded to Atlanta.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh man, you know, I'm a big believer that

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Speaker 4: whatever I set my mind to, I could accomplish. But

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Speaker 4: you never know, right, You need breaks, you need opportunities,

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Speaker 4: and just the journey of how that all went down

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Speaker 4: allowed me to again have an unbelievable summer. I had

336
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Speaker 4: heard things like, I don't know how true it is,

337
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 4: but I had heard like my velocity would drop during

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Speaker 4: a high school game, and that might have been some

339
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Speaker 4: of the concerns. The way I kind of hooked the

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Speaker 4: baseball behind me might have been a concern. But I

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Speaker 4: remember two things about that, not only the journey of

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Speaker 4: getting there, but then the trade. And Ken Medeiah was

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Speaker 4: one of the scouts, and he finally told me the

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Speaker 4: story of how the trade came down. And he had

345
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Speaker 4: begged to build a Joy. You know, the Braves wanted

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Speaker 4: either Steve Searcy or myself or Goel Alexander.

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Speaker 3: They didn't really care.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't like they had their eyes on me the

349
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Speaker 4: whole time. But Ken Midaya had begged, you know, Bill

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Speaker 4: a Joy, please don't trade John, Please, this is not

351
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Speaker 4: you know, And there was a be honest there was

352
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Speaker 4: a mishap of communication with Bill a Joy and my

353
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Speaker 4: dad on the communication of this contract that was so

354
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Speaker 4: unique that I signed, and he was tipped and I

355
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Speaker 4: don't know all the details, but I just know that

356
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Speaker 4: Ken said he kind of said, give him Smoltz. The

357
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Speaker 4: heck with it like that, And you think about those

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Speaker 4: things and you think about the journey that it provided

359
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Speaker 4: for me, and it was really not I don't want

360
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Speaker 4: to say out of spite, but it was it was

361
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Speaker 4: almost like, yeah, the heck with it, just give them Smoltz.

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Speaker 4: And that turned into being one of the most incredible

363
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Speaker 4: opportunities for me. At the time, I was terrible. We

364
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Speaker 4: had no pitching coach. We had a roving pitching coach.

365
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Speaker 4: I was five and eleven. I told my dad at

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Speaker 4: the time, I'm like, I'm no good. I don't know

367
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Speaker 4: what I'm doing. There's no help. That trade gave me

368
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Speaker 4: every opportunity. In Atlanta, they had an overkill of coaches.

369
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Speaker 4: Of course, I first met Leo when I got there,

370
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Speaker 4: and my life totally turned around as a pitcher. So

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Speaker 4: when you asked that question about you know how it

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Speaker 4: would gone. Those two things shaped dramatically my career. It

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Speaker 4: would have been a delayed process. In Detroit, I think

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Speaker 4: I would have made it, but not under the circumstances

375
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Speaker 4: that Atlanta gave me because Detroit was a veteran team

376
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Speaker 4: and of course Sparky Anderson and all the things that

377
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Speaker 4: they had gone through, I would have been it would

378
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 4: have been much later down the pipe, and who knows

379
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Speaker 4: how that would have worked.

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Speaker 5: Wow, fascinating stuff. So I'm going to make a little breakthrough,

381
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 5: a little breaking ball in here and talk a little

382
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Speaker 5: bit about the cy Young race. If you don't mind,

383
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,239
Speaker 5: I know you've seen probably you don't know how much

384
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Speaker 5: you've seen Chris sale this year, great bounce back season.

385
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 5: You've watched Wheeler pitch. How do you think this is

386
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Speaker 5: going to shape up? And who do you think really

387
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Speaker 5: deserves that? Cy Young? I know it's going to be

388
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Speaker 5: another month years, but to make the decision, how are

389
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,160
Speaker 5: you feeling about that Cy Young race?

390
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,880
Speaker 4: I think last Impression is going to win this thing.

391
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 4: Last impression of September. Look, Sale Young should get MVP.

392
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 4: Chris Sales should get MVP voats. This is incredible what

393
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 4: he's done for the Atlanta Braves. There's nobody that could

394
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 4: have solved this with all the history of the last

395
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Speaker 4: four years for Chris Salees. So good for him and

396
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Speaker 4: staying healthy and proven how nasty.

397
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Speaker 3: He can be.

398
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Speaker 4: It's really, it's really it was a crowded race, but

399
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 4: you know, Zach Wheeler has the pedigree of knowing he's

400
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 4: going to pitch the rest of the season because he

401
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 4: is freedom and the way that he throws, you know

402
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 4: he's not going to be unless they decide to, you know,

403
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 4: lock him up in the division and decide to rest them.

404
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 4: It really comes down to those two guys. In my opinion,

405
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 4: I haven't put together my formula yet. My formula is

406
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 4: not this scientific, uh you know, genius formula. I really

407
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 4: do take the six most popular statistical categories.

408
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 3: I take those who are.

409
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 4: In the competition for the cy Young, and I rank

410
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 4: them one through six in every category that I deem

411
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 4: important and I don't even care take analytics, whatever analytical category.

412
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 4: I believe that if you do that and the lowest number,

413
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Speaker 4: meaning the one who's ranked the highest in a lot

414
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 4: of it, which should be one, two, or three, will

415
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 4: always come out to be your cy Young. And I've

416
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 4: been doing it for a long time and it usually works,

417
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 4: and I think that's going to be the same case

418
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Speaker 4: because to my my opinion is if you're dominating a

419
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 4: lot of those statistical categories. And look, you, I'm of

420
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Speaker 4: the age where where wins do matter in my camp.

421
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 4: But I'm even taking wins out. Okay, let's just say,

422
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 4: because people have been pounding this, wins don't matter, junk.

423
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Speaker 4: I think that becomes the tiebreaker in my formula, because

424
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Speaker 4: wins do matter for me. They matter for teams. I

425
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Speaker 4: know they're not the most controllable aspect of the game

426
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Speaker 4: today because guys don't pitch that long and don't have

427
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Speaker 4: as much control over impacting a team. But when you

428
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 4: talk about Zach Wheeler and you talk about Chris Sao,

429
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Speaker 4: Zach Wheeler's pitching a lot of innings. The Philadelphia Phillies.

430
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Speaker 4: The reason why they're so good and why their bullpen

431
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Speaker 4: is going to be rested in the post is because

432
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Speaker 4: they're not adhering to this nonsense of pitchers only you know,

433
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Speaker 4: going through the lineup twice. They have veteran guys who

434
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Speaker 4: know how to navigate that. Oh, by the way, Zach

435
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Speaker 4: Wheeler the best in all of baseball when it goes

436
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 4: through the lineup the third time.

437
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: So you know, there's a lot of.

438
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 4: Those subjects that I could speak to for the next

439
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 4: two hours shed light on why it doesn't have to

440
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 4: be the way it is.

441
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny, I was I was going to ask

442
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 2: you about innings pitch because Zach Wheeler lost the cy

443
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 2: Young a couple of years ago to Corbyn Burns, and

444
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler is still chapped about it because he threw

445
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 2: I think maybe forty thirty five, forty forty five more

446
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 2: innings than Corbyn Burns that year. And you know, so,

447
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 2: I know you're a big believer and just a guy

448
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 2: that can go through a lineup three four times and

449
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: the value of that, just the value to the team,

450
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: and you know that might affect his era was probably

451
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: a little higher than Corburn Burns that year. That's because

452
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 2: he pitch yah.

453
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: Forty more innings.

454
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: I get tired of people who have never played the

455
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 4: game to try to convince you that if you were

456
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 4: to project what somebody would do, you don't know what

457
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 4: you're talking about. The mornings you pitch, the harder it's

458
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: going to be. The mornings you pitch, the more impact

459
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 4: you're going to have on your team. It's impossible to

460
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: have a bad year and throw two hundred and thirty innings.

461
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: It's impossible, statistically impossible, and you can have a couple

462
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 4: of blow up games, but you're not going to pitch

463
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 4: two hundred and thirty innings. So to me, I think

464
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 4: they missed a boat on a lot of things. On paper,

465
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 4: it sounds good, it looks good, it comes out of.

466
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 3: A computer, but they have no idea.

467
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 4: Do you know how much easier it is to pitch

468
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 4: one hundred and sixty innings versus two thirty? And we've

469
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: had cy young ward winners be winners on minimum innings

470
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 4: and it really is kind of borderline disgusting when you

471
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: think about the amount of work it takes to get

472
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 4: through a season.

473
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 3: So it's interesting. The three of us sat down, Glavin, Maddox.

474
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 4: And myself and we were all asked this question back

475
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 4: in the day, what's the most important statistical category to you?

476
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 3: Do you know?

477
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 4: We all three had three different answers. Maddox was e ra,

478
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 4: Glavin was wins, and I was innings pitched. And I'm

479
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 4: not saying that there's a wrong answer or right answer,

480
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 4: but to each one of us, that's what was important,

481
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: and you're going to search out what's important. And to me,

482
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 4: again following that, I never had the kind of years

483
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 4: statistically in the regular season that they did consistently. But

484
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 4: one thing that I knew I could control or at

485
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 4: least prepare for, was innings pitched minus injuries. And you know,

486
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 4: that's the one thing in our game that we have

487
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,239
Speaker 4: to get back to. I think we're eventually going to

488
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 4: there's going to be rule changes. Last night's game, the

489
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 4: two nights ago, for me, was the most fun.

490
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: Broad and it's going to be classic Buddy looks at

491
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: a paper or an iPad.

492
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 4: Or anything to say, oh, man, I gotta go watch

493
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 4: this game because the two guys on the bump. So

494
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 4: we're gonna get back to that. I'm confident, but it's

495
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 4: gonna take a while.

496
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: Do you I don't know if as a national broadcaster,

497
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: have you gotten a chance to talk pitching with the

498
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler or an Aaron Nola or any of those guys,

499
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: And who do you think would would have fit in

500
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: on those braves rotations? You know, if you could take

501
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: one of those guys and throw them in there, who

502
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 2: would you like to pitch with?

503
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 4: Well, when Zach was with the Mets, you know, my

504
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 4: beautiful opportunity Now when I'm a national broadcaster.

505
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 3: Is I get to talk to a lot of different people.

506
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: I'm not.

507
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 4: I know everyone thinks, you know because of my career

508
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 4: with Atlanta Braves that all I think and bleed and

509
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 4: do is Atlanta Braves. Those days are over. Even though

510
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 4: I'm tied. My job as a national broadcaster is to

511
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 4: be exactly that. So I enjoy meeting and talking to

512
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 4: a lot of the guys that are older. Here's what

513
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 4: I've learned. The younger pitchers and the younger players, for

514
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 4: whatever reasons, just don't ask questions. At least I don't

515
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 4: know if it's their personality or I don't know if

516
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 4: it's the information they've been given. But I got a

517
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 4: chance to talk with Zach when he was with the Mets,

518
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 4: and I asked pitching coach, and I asked their manager,

519
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 4: do you mind if I can talk to I want to.

520
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: Give him some advice.

521
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 4: There's something I see that I and I do that

522
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 4: with every person that I see and get an opportunity

523
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 4: to talk with, because I just I just want to

524
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 4: see guys stay healthy and I want to see him

525
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 4: be great. And there was a little mechanical thing that

526
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 4: I talked to him about with his with his leg

527
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 4: and it just so happened, not because of what I said,

528
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 4: but the pitching coach said, hey, we've been trying to

529
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 4: say the same thing to him.

530
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: I'm glad you reiterated. He won seven in a row.

531
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 4: Unfortunately after that he got Tommy John And so I've

532
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 4: been a big fan of Zach Wheeler because he really

533
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 4: reminds me a little bit about the way I came

534
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 4: out of the glove, kind of the Strasbourg elbows, you know,

535
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 4: and his ability to repeat his mechanics and go downhill

536
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 4: and look like he's playing catch.

537
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: He has a gift. You can't quantify that in a computer.

538
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: You just can't.

539
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 4: And when you have a gift, and when I see

540
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 4: things from pitchers that I go, oh, I'm drooling, that's

541
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: something you can't teach.

542
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: We all want to quantify it.

543
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: And so I'm glad he's doing the things he's doing

544
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 4: with his two seamer and his braking ball and his

545
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 4: slider and the four steamer. He's using every window of

546
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 4: the strike zone to be successful. And here's all you

547
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 4: need to know about pitching today. I wish we didn't

548
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 4: have a radar gun. I wish we didn't have those

549
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 4: things on the scoreboard, because you know who's going to

550
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 4: tell you what you need to.

551
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 3: Know, the hitter.

552
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 4: You don't have to look at the scoreboard to see, oh, man,

553
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 4: I got it going today. The hitter's going to tell you.

554
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 4: And when the hitter can't square up a pitch out

555
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 4: of Zach Wheeler, that's all you need to know about

556
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 4: him going downhill seven foot extension. He gets on the

557
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: hitter quick and he's got a late explosion to that basketball.

558
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: So I think they both would.

559
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: Fit in our rotation so easily because Aaron Nola is

560
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: Maddox times four with his stuff, and when he commands

561
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 4: a baseball, which he's doing this year.

562
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: It's lights out.

563
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 4: So I'm a fan of obviously pitching, but I'm more

564
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: of a fan of the art of pitching that has

565
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 4: been diminished and kind of ruined.

566
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 3: If you think about ten.

567
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 4: Eleven, twelve years ago, the analytical world was really set

568
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 4: out to destroy or eliminate starting pitching, and they did

569
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 4: a good job at it. And so the competition's not

570
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: there because they wanted a bullpen everything. And you're finding

571
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 4: the same reasons a team wins the World Series is

572
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 4: the same reasons they did one hundred and twenty years ago.

573
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 4: It has never changed and it will never change. You

574
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 4: might have an isolated one year, you know, outlier where

575
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 4: a team is able to get through and win with

576
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: like one and a half starters, but for the most part,

577
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 4: you've got to have top line starters. And that's what

578
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 4: Philadelphia has had over the last couple of years total.

579
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: I agree.

580
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 8: I think that's why they could be quite quite dangerous

581
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 8: in October. They have three or four guys who can

582
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 8: give you seven innings and shorten up. You know what

583
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 8: the bullpen has to do, and they have that lineup,

584
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 8: there is swing and miss and chasing that lineup. We

585
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 8: saw it in Game six and seven last year against Arizona.

586
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 8: If you were prepping as a pitcher for the Phillies

587
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 8: line up, what would you focus on and how would

588
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 8: you approach that lineup as an opposing picture if you

589
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 8: had to shut him down.

590
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's something I still marvel at because Schwarber, in

591
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 4: my opinion, is not your leadoff hitter, but he has

592
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: worked and he gets on base and hits homers.

593
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 3: And the reason I say.

594
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: When you ask that question, I wouldn't be as fearful

595
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: of Schwarber and the leadoff hitter personally as a pitcher,

596
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 4: but what creates problem for you is if you make mistakes,

597
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 4: they're going to embarrass you. But there is places to

598
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: go for swing and miss. There's no doubt about that.

599
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 3: You know.

600
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 4: Trey Turner is the most dynamic player. I'm a huge

601
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 4: fan of his. I talk about it every time I

602
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 4: do a broadcast. He does expand the zone a little

603
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 4: bit too much, but he's learned how to what he

604
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 4: puts it in play. He's as dangerous as anybody because

605
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: he can make you pay on the basis and I

606
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 4: would say that that they're less of a station to

607
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 4: station team than they were before. And when you have

608
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: the flexibility of some of those players to now make

609
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 4: the pitchers pay for walk, then you're dangerous. But if

610
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: you have three guys that you could walk over three

611
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: innings and they're not going to ever move up ninety feet,

612
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 4: then it becomes how much pressure is that to me?

613
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: They go When Harper goes, I mean when he doesn't

614
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: get outside the strike zone, he's the one of the

615
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 4: best middle of the lineup because he's clutched and he

616
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 4: wants to be there. So I would think that again,

617
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 4: going back to what they've learned, slowing that heartbeat and

618
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: controlling the strike zone.

619
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: If they do that, they're not vulnerable.

620
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 4: But if they don't, then you run into a couple

621
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 4: of hot pitchers that can spin it. Look to ten

622
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 4: twelve days ago, the Braves expose that they got a

623
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 4: lot of swing and miss, and then you know, talking

624
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: to Rob Thompson, they tightened it up and they started

625
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 4: playing a little bit better at the plate, and it

626
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: showed over the last ten days. And I think that's

627
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 4: what you need to have for a veteran team heading

628
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 4: into the postseason, because you know you're not facing many

629
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: fourth starters, you know, number four starters, and you're gonna

630
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 4: face a lot of heat out of the bullpen.

631
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: John, I want to ask you something off the wall

632
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: with since you're on the phone here with with Ruben,

633
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: do you have a photographic memory in terms of hitters

634
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: face because I was just looking up your stats career

635
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: stats against. He was a solid, surprisingly solid two for

636
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: seven with the walk against. So he said he hit

637
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: a couple of ropes off of you that happened to

638
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: be caught. But do you do you do you? Are

639
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: you one of those pictures that you had this amazing,

640
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: ridiculous recall. You can remember, like I remember, you know,

641
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: getting Ruben at the ved or anything like that.

642
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 4: Not not to the degree that like a Chipper Jones

643
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 4: would have as a position player or even Maddox as

644
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: a starter.

645
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: But I do know who's owned me, right.

646
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,239
Speaker 4: You might get a surprise in there that you just

647
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: didn't know, but I know that you know, I guess

648
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 4: as a picture you focus on the ones that the

649
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 4: Tony Gwinn's, the Seawan Sean Greens that you know those

650
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: ones Eric Davis is when I broke in, You sit

651
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: there and you go, man, I don't know if I

652
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: can ever get those guys out. But I think that

653
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: the strategy of pitching and the way that we went

654
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 4: about it tends to get you to focus more on

655
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 4: how are you going to get them out?

656
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 3: Four times? And that was the best and biggest challenge

657
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: that we had.

658
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 4: And you know, even doing the game the other night,

659
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 4: Zach Wheeler, I think in his first eighteen pitches through

660
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: either seventeen fastballs or cutters, or to say, they were

661
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 4: all fastballs. And so you see from a veteran pitcher

662
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 4: how to navigate the first time through. What did those

663
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 4: hitters not see the first time through his secondary pitches?

664
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 4: It's a lot more it's a lot harder to hit

665
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: when you haven't seen things that you're going to see later,

666
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: instead of everybody showing every hitter everything they have. And

667
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 4: so that is a big philosophical difference in today's game.

668
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: I get it. That's why they.

669
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 4: Don't want pitchers to go through the lineup more than twice.

670
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: That's great stuff, man, great great stuff.

671
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 5: And I know that they were back in the day

672
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 5: when I was facing guys like yourself and Maddox and

673
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 5: Pedro Martinez, those guys were thinking about how, you know,

674
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: oh he got me out on the you know, breaking.

675
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: Ball the first time or a fastball on the first.

676
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 5: Time, but I don't know what he's gonna go with

677
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 5: the next time. And so that cat and mouse game

678
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 5: is something that that you missing the game today because

679
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 5: now everybody's showing their stuff in the first seven pitches

680
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 5: of the game.

681
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: Uh.

682
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 5: And and then there's there's no mystery. There's no mystery,

683
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 5: and they're just trying to get a cup through a

684
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 5: couple of times through. So that's a that's fascinating stuff.

685
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 4: John I had a playoff game against Cincinnati and nineteen

686
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 4: ninety five. I had watched a bunch of film. They

687
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 4: had a bunch of right handers, Barry Larkin, bunch of

688
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: right handers. So I was a heavy slider against the

689
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: Cincinnati Reds. And I went into the game plan with

690
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 4: our catcher and I said, just be patient with me

691
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 4: and trust me. We're gonna throw all fastballs the first

692
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 4: four innings. And he's like, really, I said, yeah, I'm

693
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: I mean, unless we get in trouble, I want to

694
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 4: pitch him in reverse. I was driving Leo crazy. You've

695
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 4: got in the third inning. I haven't given up a hit,

696
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 4: but I threw all fastballs.

697
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: And he was rocking.

698
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 4: And we get in the fourth inning and he's like,

699
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 4: are we going to see sliders anytime soon?

700
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: I said, just trust me, it's going to work out.

701
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 4: And I got to the fifth inning with a no hitter,

702
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 4: and I think then the fourth or fifth through my

703
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 4: first slider. But my point is, when when when teams

704
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 4: have the same kind of scouting report that you do,

705
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 4: sometimes you have to be able to figure out a

706
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 4: little different strategy and trust it and it worked out.

707
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: Now you wouldn't want to do that all the time.

708
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: But that's the difference between some of the predetermined pitches

709
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 4: and all the information already know.

710
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 3: We know what everyone's going to do on every count.

711
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 4: But here's what we don't know. And here's what we're

712
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 4: not training young pitchers or young hitters to have a

713
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 4: feel to recognize when it isn't Like if Zach Wheeler's

714
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: on the mound and he's facing Ruben and he has

715
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 4: all the information, but Ruben's late that they getting the

716
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 4: barrel to the bat, why would he go with information

717
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 4: other than what his ies see because that would be

718
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 4: giving Reuben an opportunity if a slider in the zone,

719
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 4: he can catch up to it. And I think that's

720
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 4: the one lost art in today's game, where we're not

721
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 4: recognizing what the hitter or the pitcher doesn't have that day.

722
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 4: We only know the information that is given on what

723
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 4: he does, or the trends and so on and so forth.

724
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 8: The the over engineered athlete, they think too much and

725
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 8: they don't react. And this is still a reaction.

726
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 3: Game, it sure is.

727
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 4: And and that's the one beauty about our sport that

728
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 4: we are now finally getting back to a little bit

729
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 4: of that faster pace, faster reaction, but it is still

730
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: robotic to the degree of information iPads and it's all

731
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not saying it isn't good, but when

732
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 4: it's all in the same bucket, it can be paralyzing.

733
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 4: And you're seeing certain players that that struggle when they

734
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 4: get to a place of analysis by paralysis.

735
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: So, you know, I think.

736
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 4: There's the good blends are the ones that use the inform,

737
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 4: use the eyes and really flourish because nobody in any

738
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 4: other timeframe has been given the information that they get

739
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 4: Right now.

740
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 8: John, how about a little you got an October prediction?

741
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,479
Speaker 8: Maybe a little October crystal ball, you know, a big

742
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 8: picture wise for how October plays out.

743
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, every time we get around this time

744
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: of the year, you know, as I go, I'm looking

745
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 4: at you know, where do I where do I get

746
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 4: to go in doing the playoffs? And for this year,

747
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: I'm so blessed that we have the National League. So

748
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: I'm either going to be covering the Dodgers or the

749
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 4: Phillies for sure, and I think, you know, the route

750
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 4: goes through one of those two teams. Now, that's not

751
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 4: to say that Milwaukee and the way that they're surprising

752
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 4: everybody and how they create chaos on the base pass

753
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 4: and whoever else makes the playoffs can't disturb that.

754
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 3: But that's where I look at me.

755
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 4: I enjoy the Saturday games I do, but it's really

756
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 4: one game that I fly in. I do, and I

757
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 4: try to give my perspective on that national view. But

758
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: then I drill down big time in the postseason, watch

759
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 4: a lot more video, get more into the at bats

760
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 4: because now I'm there with a series. I'm there with

761
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 4: the team, and I will follow that team all the

762
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 4: way to the World Series. So one of the teams

763
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 4: that I will do will be the team I follow

764
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 4: all the way through more than likely. And that's when

765
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 4: I like to say, that's when I get paid for

766
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: what I enjoy to do, and that's postseason baseball.

767
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: So it's still one of.

768
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 4: The best things in sports. The atmosphere in Philadelphia two

769
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 4: years ago and even last year, but two years ago

770
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 4: was an atmosphere I had never been in in my life.

771
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: I Mean, it was so.

772
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 4: Electric and so crazy to see a team and its

773
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 4: fan base be that on fire for every pitch and

774
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 4: it doesn't look like they're going to get any tired

775
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 4: soon of their team's success until they hoist that banner

776
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 4: and win a championship. So I don't as a national broadcaster,

777
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 4: I stay away from making predictions because you know how

778
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 4: this business goes and social they already hammer me thinking

779
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 4: I'm rooting for teams.

780
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: When you do a game and I laugh, but it's

781
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: just the nature of the beast.

782
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: Well, John, I know you you're frustrated Phillies fans for

783
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: years with your pitching. But I think Phillies fans want

784
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: to see you this fall because if they see this fall,

785
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: that means their team is continuing to win, and you

786
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: know maybe in the NLC, yes, and in the World Series.

787
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for the time. We had

788
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: a blast. It was it was it was fun hearing

789
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: some of these stories. And I'm you know, hopefully you

790
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: can shoot it well back at Maryon and Pine Valley

791
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: in the fall if you if you're back, hey, that'd

792
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: be awesome.

793
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 4: That's part of my selfish things. When I'm thinking about

794
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 4: where I'm going, it's do I bring my clubs to

795
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 4: this particular city or do I not? And I promise

796
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 4: you I will be bringing my club as a Philip.

797
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: Thanks again to John Smoltz.

798
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: For the time.

799
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 2: I hope you guys enjoyed that. We will be back

800
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: later this week with more Billies talk. Take care of everybody.

801
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 1: This is the Philly Show. If you haven't already, please

802
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: subscribe to The Phillies Show wherever you get your podcasts.

803
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,560
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804
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: you like what we do, give us a review, tell

805
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: a friend. Catch Rubenjim and Me on Phillies Nation TV,

806
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: presented by Valley Forge Tourism. New episodes air an hour

807
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: before every Saturday Phillies game on NBC Sports Philadelphia. Replays

808
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: air throughout the week and on Philliesnation dot com. Get

809
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: more of Reuben's analysis during before and after Phillies games

810
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 1: on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four

811
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Reajim at the Allcity

812
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: Network at allphl y dot com. Find more of me

813
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: at MLB dot com, the philliesb Newsletter, and occasionally on

814
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: MLB Network