1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Podcast Playground. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: Welcome to Taking a Walk Music History on Foot. I'm 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: Buzznight your host. Today we have a guest with incredible 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 2: stories to tell. He's been described as a modern day Hemingway. 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: Ian Brennan is a Grammy winning producer who's worked with 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: the likes of Flea Listened To, Williams, Jonathan Richmond, and 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: Richard Thompson, just to name a few. His benefit concerts 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: have raised lots of money for local charities and political causes. 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: His recordings are called field recordings, documenting life or lack thereof, 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: arising from a specific place and time. He has a 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: new field recording project on six Degrees Records, called The 12 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: Oldest Voices in the World. Let's talk with Ian Brennan 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: next Taking a Walk. Well, I congratulations on the release 14 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 2: of the Oldest Voice in the World. We've got a 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: lot to talk about, including that, but I want to 16 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 2: really talk about how did you become like the most 17 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: interesting man in the world, just like the old dos 18 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: Eki's commercial. How did you get to this point of 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: doing these amazing things? 20 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 3: Well, I thank you for the compliment. I don't know 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: that that's true or that it could even be possible 22 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 3: for someone to approach that, But certainly I feel very 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 3: lucky and blessed to be able to do the things 24 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: we're doing, and to continue to do the things we're doing. 25 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: We do them as money losing labors of love, so 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: there's always doubt that we'll be able to continue. 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a trust fund kid. 28 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 3: I'm not rich, but I'm able to make money teaching 29 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 3: and use that money to do recordings and share voices 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: with the world that I think are incredibly valuable. I 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 3: think objectively have also great value in that there are 32 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 3: often nations, languages, and people that aren't hurt from internationally 33 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: with any wide support, and so it continues to be 34 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: a thrill and a joy. And on the flip side 35 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 3: of that, sadly, there there is no shortage of underrepresented 36 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: or even almost unrepresented voices around the world. 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: So how did you create the concept known as field recordings? 38 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, the idea field recording has been around, 39 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: you know, for a long time. It's in fact, in 40 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: many ways it's sort of the original recordings that was 41 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 3: done in the late nineteenth century, and the world word 42 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 3: field itself has become a little bit controversial, some people 43 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 3: taking it quite literally to mean field as people working 44 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 3: in fields, but it's the scientific term that's being used 45 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: talking about being outside of a laboratory in the real world, 46 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 3: in the field. But for me, having done you know, 47 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: a lot of recording for a long time in traditional 48 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 3: multi track studios and learning that orthodoxy and kind of 49 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 3: being brutalized by it, it's very freeing to record in 50 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: the original manner, which is one hundred percent live without 51 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: overdubs in most cases, I mean it might be exceptions 52 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 3: to that, and in a specific place in time, which 53 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 3: means usually outdoors, because the acoustics outdoors oftentimes resemble exactly 54 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: the acoustics that they spend a lot of money in 55 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: the studios trying to create, which are acoustics that have 56 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: very little reflection because when you're outside, you're not within 57 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 3: four walls and a ceiling, you don't get that rivertion usually, 58 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: so it ends up being quite a dead sound really, 59 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: But there are the elements of the environment itself that 60 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: bleed into the recording, both emotionally and the performance and 61 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: also sonically. 62 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 2: And talking about some of that in studio work, you've 63 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: worked with a range of people, everybody from Flee to 64 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 2: Lucinda Williams to Jonathan Richmond to Richard Thompson. So it's 65 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: a diverse group of people that you've worked from and 66 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: I'm sure learned from. Is that correct? 67 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what you just said is really the 68 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: key point is that I've learned from them. I've learned 69 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: from all those experiences. I've learned, I think from the 70 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 3: vast majority of people that I've ever met and recorded 71 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: with and played music with. Sometimes that's negative lessons, you 72 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: know that you're seeing somebody engage in behaviors that you 73 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: don't want to engage agent and and maybe are in 74 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 3: danger of doing it or have done it. But mostly 75 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 3: I think it's impositive and a lot of those lessons 76 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: are just intensifications of knowledge something that you already know, 77 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 3: and then it's strengthened like, oh okay, this really there's 78 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: something to this because you're finding this dynamic, you know, 79 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: on another continent, and you're finding this dynamic in another language. 80 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: But when you talk about the artists that have these 81 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: long careers, professional careers, there's there's good reason why they 82 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 3: usually do, and one of those is that they tend 83 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: to be quite humble. In my experience, the problems usually 84 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: do not come from the stars or the superstars. 85 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: I've found this. 86 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: The problems usually come from the little people that want 87 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 3: to be stars and superstars and aren't and they're frustrated. 88 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: But the people that have managed to be around for 89 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 3: decades and longer, and you know, people you're naming like 90 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: Flea and Richard Thompson really really put the music first 91 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: and have really devoted their lives to that and it shows. 92 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: So you have expertise in conflict resolution, which I'm sure 93 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: going back to the studio probably benefited you having that expertise. 94 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: It's true, It's true. 95 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 3: You know, I was supporting myself from my teen years 96 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: on working in lock psychiatric settings in Oakland, California, mostly 97 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 3: also in Los Angeles for a brief period, and you know, 98 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: those experiences, which oftentimes were very extreme and very repetitive, 99 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: you know, you might have many crises in a single 100 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: eight hour shift, did have lent themselves and did lend 101 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 3: themselves very well to working with artists. In fact, some 102 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 3: of the people I work with in some cases have 103 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 3: been you know, labels or agents coming to me saying, 104 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 3: we know you can work with this person because no 105 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: one else can't. And that's not to say I can't either, 106 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 3: But often the challenges that people found in them were not. 107 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: So daunting to me. 108 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 3: It's not that I didn't find them more difficult than 109 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: the average individual. It's just that compared to somebody who 110 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: might be acutely psychotic, or in a manic state or otherwise, 111 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: sometimes these problems seem quite small. And that came into 112 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 3: a great relief for me in the late nineties when 113 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of benefit shows, organizing organizing 114 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: a lot of benefit shows to raise money for charity 115 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: in San Francisco, and almost inevitably at these events, somebody 116 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: would run up at some point in the evening and say, 117 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: oh my god, we have a crisis, we have an emergency. 118 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 3: And normally I would have been at the psychiatric emergency 119 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 3: room in Oakland at those exact hours, you know, which 120 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: is in the evening Friday, Saturday, Sundays. So they come 121 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: up and they say that, and I'd say, what is it? 122 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: And it would always be something like we're out of beer, 123 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,559 Speaker 3: or there's somebody that isn't on guest lists, and it's like, well, 124 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: these aren't really emergencies, So you know, I understand people's concern, 125 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: but in a way, it became easier to take the 126 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: charge out of those things and just focus on solutions 127 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: and not problems. 128 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: So before we talk about the oldest voice in the world, 129 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: I want to talk about some of your other amazing 130 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: field recording work. Let's talk about the Zomba Prison project 131 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: as an example. How did that project get formulated and 132 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: talk about the process of that immense project. 133 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 3: Well, you know the Zomba Prison project for us, for 134 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: my wife Marilanta omhos A Delhi, who does all the 135 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: photos and video for these projects for us, it was 136 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 3: a very special project, but almost every single one we've 137 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: done is, so it didn't seem considerably different than many 138 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: of the others. But certainly after the Grammy nomination, it 139 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 3: really changed. It became something larger and bigger. For that 140 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: period of time, it certainly was an important thing for 141 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: the country at Malawi. It was the first Grammy nomination 142 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: ever and the only ever. Seventy five percent of the 143 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: countries in Africa today still have not had a single 144 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: artist nominated ever at the Grammys, which is a shame 145 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 3: and something that hopefully will be corrected in the not 146 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: so distant future over time. But we went there because 147 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: we'd been in Malawi and we'd recorded We've met the 148 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 3: Malawi mouse Boys, who are just an. 149 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: Incredible vocal group. 150 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: They had tremendous success considering that they were singing in 151 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 3: Cho che Wah, and they were able to come to 152 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: the UK and you know, really had an impact on 153 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 3: audiences that was extraordinary, something I've rarely seen in my life. 154 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 3: And then because of that, they were invited to Australia 155 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: and New Zealand and they went there and it was 156 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 3: the same and unfortunately it didn't lead to a sustainable 157 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: career for them, and they're still battling poverty and they 158 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 3: live in the Malawi Mouse Boys, in a very remote 159 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 3: region of Malawi, which at the time was the number 160 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: one poorest country in the world. 161 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: They live without running water and electricity. 162 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 3: And so we were thinking about for a long time 163 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: doing you know, a prison project, because prisoners tend to 164 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: be maligned and censored and denied all over the world, 165 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: and so if there was a population that might even 166 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: be more you know, you know, unheard in Malawi, we figured, well, 167 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: it must be the people in the maximum security prison. 168 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: So we went there without knowing whether there would be 169 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 3: music or not. We did know that there was a 170 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: band there, so that gave us some hope, but still 171 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 3: we didn't know what that would be. And we got 172 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: there and it turned out that the record is made 173 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: up all entirely of people who did not consider themselves musicians, 174 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: who did not consider themselves singers, who were not in 175 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 3: the band, or if they were in the band, they 176 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 3: were not the singers or songwriters in the band. Maybe 177 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: they were the backup bass player or the backup drummer. 178 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 3: And so the process itself was amazing, and one of 179 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 3: the things that I do remember about the project was, 180 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 3: and this is true so many but in particular, when 181 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: we finished recording the women on the women's side of 182 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,599 Speaker 3: the prison, which there are only fifty women out of 183 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: two thousand plus prisoners, and they have their own section, 184 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 3: Marlene and I stepped outside and we said to each other, 185 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: almost simultaneously, it doesn't matter if a record ever comes 186 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 3: from this. This was beautiful and amazing from both sides, 187 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 3: from what we were told by them and from the experience. 188 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: That we had. 189 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 3: And it took over a year to get anybody to 190 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 3: be interested in the record, and then it finally came 191 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: out and it did quite well for a record from 192 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 3: a Malawi, a smaller country, in a language other than English, 193 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: and doing songs that were decidedly non commercial. And the 194 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: New York Times wrote a piece about it, and Wece 195 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 3: wrote a piece about it, and there were a few 196 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 3: little things here and there. There was a piece in 197 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: a major French music magazine and that was January. 198 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: And that was that. 199 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: And then almost a year later the Grammy nominations came around. 200 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 3: And that was a year where we had done I 201 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 3: think more records than any single year that had been released, 202 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 3: something like six or seven. And of those records, I 203 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 3: think it might have been the last one I would 204 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: have assumed or picked would get nominated, if any and 205 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 3: it got nominated, and it just snowballed from there. But 206 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 3: those individuals were incredibly talented, in particular, In particular Benomo, 207 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 3: who wrote the ballads on each record, is just a 208 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 3: talent that is transcendent. Somebody who's not just good, but 209 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: is in that zone of hard to be better than 210 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 3: you know. It's not a competition, but just he reaches 211 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: a point musically that very few people ever do. 212 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: Can you describe the feeling you and your wife have 213 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 2: when you first hear some of this amazing music at 214 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: that first moment. 215 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's just such a thrill when it 216 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: because increasingly a lot of planning goes into it. When 217 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: we started doing this in two thousand and nine, it 218 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 3: was much more on the fly and more and more 219 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 3: because we're traveling with our daughter and traveling with her 220 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 3: when she was one and when she was two, and 221 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 3: now she's six, and the logistics become more complicated. Some 222 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: of the populations we've been reaching recently are more difficult 223 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 3: to reach, you know, like places that can be reached 224 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: only by boat or you know, by off road driving 225 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: for twelve hours. We just came back from such a project. 226 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: So I think there's there's a level of relief but 227 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 3: ultimately joy when after all of that that this leap 228 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 3: of faith is rewarded, which is, you don't even know 229 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 3: if there's going to be music. You don't know what 230 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 3: it's going to be. But our faith is that there 231 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: is music everywhere. We're listening to certain people too much 232 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 3: and repetitively. The star system wants that and and and 233 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 3: you know it helps, you know, promote that and generate that, 234 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: but in reality, there's music in everybody. 235 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a continuum. 236 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 3: It's not to say that that every single person is 237 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 3: as gifted as prints. I mean, there are extraordinary people 238 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: such as he, but everybody's got music in them. And 239 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 3: and for people to be more active in that process, 240 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 3: I think is healthier for them and healthier for society. 241 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: And if we truly believe in diversity, then we should 242 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: be listening to as many different voices as possible. 243 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: When you think of helping the prison system anywhere any country, 244 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: U do you see an application here that could just 245 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: transcend the project and be a benefit in other prison reform? 246 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: Well you you hope. 247 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 3: So, I mean we we did help to get some 248 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 3: people released, you know, from from Zomba. We also try 249 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: to get other people released, and they've not yet, and 250 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 3: you know, and now it's been i mean almost a 251 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: decade since we were there, and that's that's very saddening. 252 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 3: But sure, I think humanizing one another is never going 253 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 3: to not benefit us. 254 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: You know that we are able to. 255 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: See individuals as individuals and see people in all their 256 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: complexity they're good and they're bad, and to hopefully foreground forgiveness, 257 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: which is something I think largely we're lacking now. I 258 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 3: think that things have become very binary and very very 259 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: primitive in a way, like people think they're living in 260 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: a modern world because they're using modern devices, but a 261 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 3: lot of the psychology behind it and the emotions behind 262 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 3: it are very very very black and white, and that's 263 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: not beneficial to any of us really are survival and. 264 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: So, you know, we look at the United States. 265 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it has now some say the highest incarceration 266 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 3: rate in the world, and the conditions in some of 267 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 3: the prisons and some of the states are quite horrific. 268 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 3: And the conditions in Malawi were that, and in many 269 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 3: other places in the world are that. And sometimes it's 270 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 3: intentional because people feel like they deserve it. Yet what's 271 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: not factored into that equation when you take the morality 272 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 3: or the philosophy out of it, is that a fair 273 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: number of people are innocent, and a fair number of 274 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: people are being held there without yet even being proven guilty, 275 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: and they're living in those conditions. 276 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: So at Zomba, they. 277 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: Would sleep sixty to a room that was about I 278 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: think it was eighteen by twenty, so sixty people would 279 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: sleep in that room, and that literally meant they had 280 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 3: to sleep on top of each other like sardines. So 281 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 3: if you wanted to turn, you could only turn when 282 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 3: everybody else turned, and you could not get up in 283 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: the middle of the night to go to the bathroom 284 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 3: without risking your personal safety. So it's not a very 285 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 3: comfortable way to live. It's a way of living that 286 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 3: I think we can't even imagine. And we're talking about 287 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 3: people doing that in some cases ostensibly for the rest 288 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 3: of their lives, people that are sentenced there for life. 289 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 2: When you go into a situation such as the Zomba project, 290 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: how do you sort of decipher the voices that want 291 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: to be heard versus maybe the voices that shouldn't be heard. 292 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 2: There is this just an in stink that you have? 293 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think that there's a basic barometer 294 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: of truth that you can you can feel, and most 295 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 3: of us can. What I found in general is that 296 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 3: the people that most want to be heard are the 297 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 3: people that tend to be the least interesting, and the 298 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 3: people that are the most reluctant oftentimes are the ones 299 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: that really are treasures. And and so that happened in Zomba, 300 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 3: It happened at the witch camp in Ghana, you know, 301 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 3: where not only is it maybe someone who doesn't consider 302 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 3: themselves a singer is resistant to sharing their voice, but 303 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: maybe other people are even obstructing that, say no, no, no, no, 304 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 3: she can't sing, like like you know, no no no, 305 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 3: no no, not her, and then. 306 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: Other people putting themselves forward. 307 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 3: So again, we just got back from a project and 308 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: a person showed up uninvited, and I could tell almost 309 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: immediately that this was not somebody that would be interesting 310 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 3: to listen to, you know, just because his attitude was 311 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 3: I mean, number one that he showed up and invited, 312 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 3: but beyond that, he had a very you know, arrogant, 313 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 3: aggressive attitude and a very adolescent attitude, which is basically 314 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 3: he came there, but then he acted like he wasn't interested, 315 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 3: and it's like, well, you know, this is not the 316 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 3: person that we're really here to listen to. The people 317 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,479 Speaker 3: we're here to listen to are the people that are 318 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: you know, meek and afraid to. 319 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: Share their voice. 320 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 3: And then suddenly they share something that's so incredibly intimate 321 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 3: and beautiful, and it's it's when that happens, it's it's 322 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: just one of the most incredible experiences I think that 323 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 3: I've ever had. And yet it's happened so many times, 324 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 3: and it's almost always happened with those individuals, and it's 325 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 3: not fake humility like oh oh me, well you know, No, 326 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 3: this is people that are really like, nah, no, no, 327 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 3: really me, you want to hear me? I'm not a singer, 328 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: and then they sing and the vast majority of time 329 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 3: their voices are incredibly interesting and their stories are spellbinding 330 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 3: and poigning. 331 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: So the new project, the oldest voice in the world. 332 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing me back to the sky. Talk 333 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 2: about this project, how you came up with the idea 334 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 2: and how the process began to create this project. 335 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, Azerbodgen is another country that a 336 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: lot of people don't know a lot about, maybe have 337 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 3: not heard of. And what we've done with so many 338 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: of these projects is important, and that is that it's 339 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 3: working an important point, and that is that we're working 340 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 3: with people within those nations that might be underrepresented, that 341 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 3: are minoritized within their own nation, that are oftentimes singing 342 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 3: in a foreign language within their own land. 343 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: And so the people. 344 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 3: That we're working with on that record are the Talish people, 345 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 3: and they are have a region that is split between 346 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: Iran and Azerbagan. So in the mountains, the Talvish Mountains. 347 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 3: They're living a very different lifestyle people in the city, 348 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 3: which the city is incredibly modern and and and you know, 349 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 3: there's a lot of money there, there's a lot of 350 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: natural resources. It's a beautiful capital city, you know, more 351 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 3: fancier than most places you'll visit. And yet you go 352 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: a few hours south and up into the mountains and 353 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 3: people are living, you know, riding on donkeys and living 354 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 3: a rural life without running water and without electricity in 355 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 3: a lot of cases. 356 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: And that's where we went. 357 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: So we're hearing from people that are maligned and minoritized 358 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: within their own nations. And oftentimes again people will say, well, 359 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 3: you don't want to go there. I mean, we were 360 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: told that why do you want to go there? It's 361 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 3: ugly there. You should go to the north, that's where 362 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: it's beautiful. You should go here. They they've got great 363 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 3: you know, wine country or you know, they were giving 364 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: us all this advice like why would you want to 365 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: go up there? 366 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: And yet when you. 367 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 3: Talk to them about it a little bit more deeply, 368 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: you find that they've never been there themselves, just straight 369 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 3: up prejudiced. You know that this is their knowledge and 370 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: their knowledge is based on no knowledge, and yet that 371 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: lack of knowledge gets repeated and becomes fact to so 372 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 3: many people. And so you know, when we recorded in 373 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 3: northern Ghana at the Witch camps. Ghana is a vibrant 374 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 3: nation and has a lot of incredible things in the 375 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: capital city Opera in particular, but it's a huge nation physically, 376 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 3: and in the north it's a very different world and 377 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: where most of the witch camps are. And while we 378 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: were there, we recorded with a group called Fra Fra 379 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 3: from the Frau Fra people in the Frau Fra language, 380 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: and the leader Small sadly passed away last year, but 381 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 3: incredible musician, incredible singer, incredible songwriter, the energy of somebody 382 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 3: you know, twenty thirty years younger than he was, I mean, 383 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: and he literally looked twenty or thirty years younger than 384 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: he was. But again, they're singing in a language that 385 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 3: less than three percent of the people in their nation 386 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: speak and understand, and they're seen in this language that 387 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 3: is the only language they know. So even though English 388 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 3: has spoken widely there because of the colonialistic history and 389 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 3: a lot of people are bilingual or tri lingual, they 390 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 3: were not And even though there's the dominant language for 391 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 3: the country that is spoken mostly in the south, they 392 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 3: don't speak that either, so they're at a real disadvantage. 393 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: And the Talish people in Azerbajian it was similar. 394 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 3: So we went there because that region is known for longevity. 395 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 3: Supposedly the oldest man recorded knowing man to live was 396 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 3: from there. He died in the seventies. It was supposed 397 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 3: to have been one hundred and sixty eight when he 398 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 3: passed away. There have been other people that are from 399 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: there that they claim to be one hundred and forty five, 400 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty. You know, they call him super centenarians. 401 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: So not just not to somebody who's made a hundred, 402 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 3: but made it well past one hundred. 403 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: So we figured, well, these are voices to hear. 404 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 3: From and as an act of anti agism, I mean, 405 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: that's really it is that, you know, all the focus 406 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 3: on youth and the visual focus of most modern music, 407 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 3: where a lot of the musical artists now are much 408 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: more engaged. 409 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 1: In visuals than they are in sound. 410 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 3: They don't sound that different from one another, but you know, 411 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 3: it's always about the video and the style and the symbolism. 412 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: So as an. 413 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 3: Antidote to that, we figured, well, you know, let's not 414 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 3: just listen to people that are older, which we try 415 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 3: to do on every project as much as possible. We 416 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: want to hear from the women versus the men. We 417 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 3: want to hear from the elders versus the people that 418 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 3: are younger. And so in this case, we're really going further, 419 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 3: and that is people that are over one hundred years old. 420 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: And so we went there in search of that. And again, 421 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: these were almost exclusively people that did not consider themselves singers, 422 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 3: that were not songwriter, and yet the voices are incredibly 423 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 3: unique and and and and revealing and uh courageous and 424 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 3: so it's it's unlike anything I've ever heard before, and 425 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 3: and it was incredibly moving. But also, you know, a 426 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 3: learning process to meet these individuals, even if it was 427 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 3: for short periods of time each. 428 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: So I know, there's one song in particular there that 429 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 2: caught my eye, but many of them did, but this 430 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: one caught my eye. 431 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: My life is good. It is like a flower. 432 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 2: The simplicity of the statement and the song and the 433 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 2: beauty just radiated. 434 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I really, you know, there's there's that element of 435 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 3: almost Taykou. You know, this the simplicity, but the beauty 436 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 3: of I think a lot of folk poetry there. There's 437 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 3: another song on the record where the it's it's two 438 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 3: lines and it's. 439 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: You're like a bird you love to fly. And that 440 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: is so. 441 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 3: Much better than than the majority of song lyrics. You know, 442 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: there doesn't need to be more. You know, it's it's 443 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 3: so well written. You couldn't improve upon what it is. 444 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 3: It's just beautiful and so uh yeah, that's that's great. 445 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 3: I think that you that you notice that because it 446 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 3: to me it's it was striking as well. 447 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: I mean, just this is this is poetry. 448 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: Another one, mother, why did you leave me so soon? 449 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 450 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 3: It's one of the things, maybe one of the most 451 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 3: unexpected things, and one of the most poignant things, was 452 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 3: how many of them talked about and sang about their 453 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 3: own mothers. 454 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: You know that they were. 455 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 3: Still feeling that loss even when they were past one 456 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 3: hundred years of age. 457 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 2: And then the words of advice to the one son, 458 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 2: don't go there. 459 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 3: The road is dangerous, yes, yeah, and the roads there 460 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 3: can be very dangerous. 461 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: The roads there. 462 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 3: Are you know, snowy, icy, most of all, muddy and steep. 463 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 3: We got stuck in the mud on one of those roads, 464 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 3: and it was it went from seeming, you know, it 465 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 3: didn't seem like a particularly bad road, and the next 466 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 3: moment it got scary, got scary very quickly. 467 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 2: So talk about the fact that you're able to find 468 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 2: six Degrees Records and work with a label that has 469 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 2: no commercial expectations whatsoever. 470 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean six degrees has been around now for 471 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 3: more than twenty five years, and they follow their hearts 472 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: and that never became clearer to me than with Zombie Prism, 473 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 3: because my history with them was that they started the 474 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 3: year that I started doing a free weekly show, acoustic 475 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: show in a laundromat in San Francisco. I did it 476 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 3: for five years every Monday night. 477 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 2: Is this the lives the live nude bands? Is that 478 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: what we're talking about? 479 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: This is that was one of the benefit shows. Is 480 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 3: this was an unscrub live from the laundromat, and so 481 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 3: every week I would have a different guest from the 482 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 3: local music scene and record them. That's where I started 483 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: really doing field recordings unintentionally so actually and learning a 484 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: little bit about recording because I wasn't an engineer I'm 485 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 3: still not really. I do it out of necessity, but 486 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 3: I started doing that at the same year they found 487 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 3: the label in San Francisco, where you know, I was 488 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 3: born and raised in the Bay Area my whole life. 489 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 3: I'd been there, nowhere else, and there was this label 490 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 3: and they became successful, and yet, you know, I basically 491 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 3: they had no interest in what I was doing. Ostensibly. Finally, 492 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 3: about ten years later, someone I knew introduced me to 493 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 3: one of the people at the label, and they agreed 494 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: to meet with me, I think, a little reluctantly, not 495 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 3: you know, like not that they were and they were ambivalent, 496 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 3: I think, but they were willing to meet with me, 497 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 3: and so I met with them, and so we became friendly. 498 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: And this was the time that we'd moved overseas. 499 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 3: So when I would come back to work about once 500 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: a year, i'd go see them and I'd say, hey, 501 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 3: there's this project and they check it out and they 502 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: say yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not for us. And I'd 503 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: meet with them again and say, ah, well there's this 504 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 3: project in that project and they say ah yeah, yeah, 505 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 3: yeah interesting and no, no, no, that's not for us. 506 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 3: And so this went on for years, and finally one 507 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 3: time I went to their offices and we went around 508 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: the corner for coffee, We did the ritual, we talked 509 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 3: about life and you know, really good people and spent 510 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 3: a little time together. And I told them what I 511 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: was doing and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's 512 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 3: that's not going to work. And I'd kind of reached 513 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 3: that point, but I felt like, well, I know it's 514 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 3: lovely to meet with them on a personal level, but 515 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: I don't think this is ever going to go anywhere. 516 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: And as we were walking back to their offices, which 517 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 3: is just a few blocks away, they said, well, else 518 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 3: are you working on? 519 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: And I said, oh, we just we went to this. 520 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 3: We went to this prison in Malali and you know, 521 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 3: recorded the men and women there in the maximum security prison. 522 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 3: And he said that's something I'd want to hear. And 523 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 3: I'm like, really, like that's something he wanted. Okay, I 524 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 3: guess I've been going about this all wrong. So I 525 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 3: sent I sent Bob the music and the next day 526 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 3: he he you know, told me, he immediately immediate response, 527 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 3: said we have to do this record. We will lose 528 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: money doing this, but we have to do this. We 529 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 3: have a responsibility to do this record. And for me, 530 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 3: that sums up everything about Bob and everything about the label. 531 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: But it's also your compass too that leads that charge 532 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: as well. 533 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I guess I'm not sure my compass is 534 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: always is always right, but I do, in the hindsight 535 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 3: look back on ninety something percent of what we've done 536 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 3: and stand by it fully. And that's always been our 537 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 3: practice when we do these, is that we record a 538 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 3: lot of things we don't put out, and we go 539 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 3: places not knowing what we're going to find. So if 540 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: we put something out, we believe in it, and so 541 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 3: I have no issue with people not liking it. But 542 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 3: when people take issue with it as if it's objectively 543 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 3: lacking in some way, it's like, no, no, no, this 544 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: is intentional. These records are intentional, and most of them 545 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: are on rock records. There are roots records, there are 546 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 3: folk records, they are experimental records. Oftentimes there haven't guard 547 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 3: records in many cases as well, And a lot of 548 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 3: that doesn't sit well with the sort of traditional world music, 549 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 3: global music orthodoxy, who are still coming from that place 550 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 3: of tradition, and this is what music from this country's 551 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 3: supposed to sound like. And no, we're not interested in 552 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 3: any of that. We're interested in the birth of sounds, 553 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 3: and we're interested in hearing voices that we've not heard before. 554 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 3: And so for me, the ultimate barometer is when somebody 555 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 3: sings and it doesn't sound like anybody I've ever heard before. 556 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 3: That's an exceptional experience because the vast majority of commercial music, 557 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 3: the person sounds like an amalogum of five people or 558 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 3: exactly like a singer, you know, And instead you hear 559 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 3: somebody that doesn't sound like anybody you've heard before. It's like, 560 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 3: that has to have value if you value diversity. And 561 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 3: it's not about liking it or not liking it. It's just, 562 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 3: here's a language that I've never heard a record from before, 563 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 3: original music from. Here's a voice that sounds unlike any 564 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 3: voice I've ever heard before. Of voice for everybody, but 565 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 3: how can that not be something that should be celebrated 566 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 3: or supported to some degree? And Yana Momina from Djibouti, 567 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 3: which is a country that a lot of people don't know. 568 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 3: It's less than a million people, it's smaller. She's one 569 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 3: of those people that she has one of the most 570 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 3: original voices I've ever heard. But it's a voice that 571 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 3: for a lot of people would be like, you know, 572 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 3: nails on a chalkboard. They would think that she's out 573 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 3: of control and that it's not intentional, But in fact, 574 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: you can listen to her sing the same song ten 575 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 3: times and it's the same every time. I mean, she 576 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 3: knows what she's doing and she's she's playing with the 577 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 3: edge of chaos, similarly to you know someone like you 578 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 3: know a free jazz player, you know Ornette Coleman or 579 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 3: someone of that nature, who, again, you can't expect the 580 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 3: average person to like that, and they're not wrong to 581 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 3: not like it. It's just that the music we're making 582 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 3: is decidedly non commercial. It's not meant for everybody. But 583 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 3: when people do connect with it, it's usually on a 584 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: very deep level. And I would much rather that one 585 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 3: person falls in love with the voice and it helps 586 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: enrich that person's life on a significant level that level 587 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 3: of intimacy. Then to have one hundred thousand views by 588 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 3: people that don't even remember what it was a day later, 589 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 3: an hour later, a second later, it doesn't have any 590 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 3: lasting impact because it's too repetitive of the patterns that 591 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 3: we already know in Western music. 592 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 2: In closing, do you think music has a healing power 593 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 2: to the soul. 594 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: It has definitely a healing power. I mean, neurologists know 595 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: that it is the stimulus that activates more parts of 596 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 3: your brain than anything else simultaneously. And so I can 597 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 3: tell you about my sister Jane. She has Down syndrome. 598 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 3: Music was what connected us growing up. She had a 599 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 3: very limited book cabillary her life. Now at the end 600 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 3: of her life, towards the end of her life, she 601 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 3: is almost completely nonverbal. She's now nonambulatory, she's almost exclusively bedridden. 602 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 3: She can't feed herself, she's incontinent, and so largely she 603 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 3: doesn't communicate at all. But when I go to see her, 604 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 3: I'll put on music. And when I put on music, 605 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 3: suddenly she will slowly blossom like a flower, and her 606 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 3: inability to move, what ability she has, is regained. And 607 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 3: that usually begins with her left hand. She's a left 608 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 3: handed person, so she'll start moving her left. 609 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: Hand a little bit. 610 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 3: And you know, over the course of a couple of 611 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 3: Michael Jackson songs and a couple of village people's songs, 612 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 3: she might start clapping her hands if encouraged to do so, 613 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 3: and she might start singing nonverbally, but she'll start singing 614 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 3: and she'll start laughing. And that's the power of music, 615 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 3: is that it's able to do something that physical therapists 616 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 3: have not been able to do, that psychotropic medications have 617 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 3: not been able to do for her, that even in 618 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 3: this state where many people have labeled her as vegetative 619 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 3: or have labeled her as demented, there's a depth there 620 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 3: that can be reached by music that these other means cannot. 621 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 2: Ian Brannan, congratulations on the release of the oldest Voice 622 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 2: in the world, and congrats on all your great work 623 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 2: and thank you for sharing it on the Taking a 624 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 2: Walk podcast. 625 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: Oh thank you. It's great talking with you, Buzz. Thank you. 626 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 627 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.