Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 2: Our colleague Nol is adventuring still.
Speaker 3: But will return soon. They call me Ben. We're joined
Speaker 3: as always with our super producer Dylan the Tennessee pow Fagan.
Speaker 3: Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes
Speaker 3: this the stuff they don't want you to know a
Speaker 3: bit of a special case, fellow conspiracy realist. This is
Speaker 3: part two of a two part series on the troubled
Speaker 3: Border of meanmarn Honestly, Matt, troubled is vastly understating the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many issues here that we've been going
Speaker 2: over thus far, and we're about to get into a
Speaker 2: lot more of them. And I'm just looking at some
Speaker 2: of the some of the news reporting just over this
Speaker 2: year since April with the civil war stuff that's been
Speaker 2: going on, and then connecting it to the powerful forces
Speaker 2: that are able to operate, some of the military forces
Speaker 2: as well as some of the resistance forces that are
Speaker 2: out there that are battling each other all across Meenmar,
Speaker 2: especially near the borders, and a lot of that money
Speaker 2: that's funding this stuff is coming from the crime.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. We also know that people who are
Speaker 3: being enslaved in these certain camps that we're going to
Speaker 3: talk about, we know they're coming from around the world.
Speaker 3: This is an international conspiracy. So please please please tune
Speaker 3: into episode one of this series, the first part to
Speaker 3: get a handle on what we're talking about. And now
Speaker 3: without the ad part two of the Troubled Border of Meanmar,
Speaker 3: can we talk.
Speaker 2: About the somewhat strange border that India has with me
Speaker 2: and Maar, Because Bangladesh is, like, I don't know, tucked
Speaker 2: in between this tiny little piece of land that sends
Speaker 2: India around the top of Bangladesh and around to the
Speaker 2: side and then wraps around where it actually borders with
Speaker 2: me and Maar, and it is it's so interesting, And
Speaker 2: I was wrong when I looked at it. Initially I
Speaker 2: thought that Bangladesh actually had this very large border with Myanmar,
Speaker 2: but no, that's actually India. Yeah, it just wraps around.
Speaker 3: Like a thousand miles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 3: It's huge, and it's because it's huge. Again, it's porous
Speaker 3: and the ethnic groups residing there live on either side
Speaker 3: of the border. Previously, previously on India, the Modi administration
Speaker 3: had said, Okay, we're gonna give you a free movement.
Speaker 3: We understand that everybody living in these villages, you have
Speaker 3: close knit kinshit you have more in common with yourselves
Speaker 3: than you have with us running India's government. So you know,
Speaker 3: free movement anyone on either side of the border. Here,
Speaker 3: if you live here, you can go ten miles into
Speaker 3: the other country. You don't need a visa because it's
Speaker 3: you know, you're probably going to work, You're probably going
Speaker 3: to go visit your mom or something. Just pass through,
Speaker 3: say hey to Robert, and go on your merry way.
Speaker 3: But then with the Civil War, meandmar began printing, refugees
Speaker 3: flooding into India at a rate, and the rural areas
Speaker 3: simply couldn't take. I mean, imagine if folks, tell us
Speaker 3: where you live, and give us your Social Security number,
Speaker 3: but tell us where you live, and imagine imagine your
Speaker 3: town cut in half. If Atlanta all of a sudden
Speaker 3: was part us and then part a different country A
Speaker 3: what country would it be? And see who would be
Speaker 3: running to which side, because if it's a better country
Speaker 3: than the US, we're all going to go. If someone's like, hey,
Speaker 3: south of I twenty is now Switzerland and that happens
Speaker 3: in ten days, what do you happen? You know what
Speaker 3: I mean? Anybody who ends up south of twenty inside
Speaker 3: two eighty five, congratulations, you are now a Swiss citizen.
Speaker 2: WHOA I would do it? Yeah? Do you think we
Speaker 2: can make that happen? I want to go there.
Speaker 3: I'm South Swiss is what we call ourselves, south switzz Yeah, yep,
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's a question. And when things were
Speaker 3: going so horribly, Arai and me and mar Ala, these
Speaker 3: people were asking selves the same question. They went over
Speaker 3: to India, or they were not allowed to go to
Speaker 3: India because the government decided to build a wall.
Speaker 2: They built that wall, baby, Yeah.
Speaker 3: They ended the free movement program, they built the wall.
Speaker 3: They cited national security concerns because of the civil war,
Speaker 3: which makes sense.
Speaker 2: They're those are real concerns.
Speaker 3: These are valid, but they're not necessarily exclusive. You have
Speaker 3: real concerns and ulterior motives as well, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 3: never mind, I don't know if I want to say
Speaker 3: it like you know how like, yes, the cop might
Speaker 3: have to pull somebody over for speeding, but it also
Speaker 3: helps them with their quota. Yes, so those are two valid.
Speaker 3: There's valid We'll see if we keep that one.
Speaker 2: I get it. I get what you're saying.
Speaker 3: And not all law enforcement needs a quota obviously. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking through cons actually there. It's it's sticky,
Speaker 3: right because locals in this northeastern part of India in particular,
Speaker 3: they say there's an ulterior motive. They say, you know what,
Speaker 3: life here is rough in northeast India, And so what
Speaker 3: we think is happening is the government is ignoring the
Speaker 3: real problem and blaming migrants and refugees as a convenient
Speaker 3: deflection away from addressing other more serious and subsidtuente problems.
Speaker 2: Weird, gosh, that feels some deja vu, right, Yeah, something
Speaker 2: resonating with me there.
Speaker 3: Oh, look at Dylan's not Actually.
Speaker 2: Can't put my finger on it, but it sounds familiar.
Speaker 3: I wish I brought my magic eight ball, which is.
Speaker 2: Cocaine signs point two.
Speaker 3: I've never tried it. I think I would age out
Speaker 3: of that experience.
Speaker 2: But me and I think that's really good.
Speaker 3: I think so for it being so unpopular in college, Yeah,
Speaker 3: is that what it was? I don't know. I just
Speaker 3: think it was never the demographic yes us yay, gosh,
Speaker 3: Still we're such dudley do rights. But we know, you know,
Speaker 3: we know that people can be opportunistic with this kind
Speaker 3: of stuff. And right now, eighty thousand refugees and asylum
Speaker 3: seekers from Meamar live in India. Of those eighty thousand,
Speaker 3: the vast majority came over since the twenty twenty one coup.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: So there are similar instances in Thailand and of course Laos.
Speaker 3: Just recently meamr national was brutally beaten to death in
Speaker 3: Thailand and there's a flood of methamphetamine as you know,
Speaker 3: coming through that area. We see the civil wars bringing
Speaker 3: refugees death and chaos, and other countries try to do
Speaker 3: the right This is really important, folks. Other countries try
Speaker 3: to do the right thing in assisting refugees, but they're
Speaker 3: under no lea real legal compulsion to do so. That's
Speaker 3: why when speaking of deja vu, you see a situation
Speaker 3: with a lot of potential refugees, at least is indicated
Speaker 3: by their Google searches. Every country you want to apply
Speaker 3: to does not have to take you. It is their decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just like make yourself an amazing candidate on paper, Yes.
Speaker 3: Ye do, take all the tricks you learn from social
Speaker 3: media and just fake it till you make it exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. They do not have to do that.
Speaker 2: But being you know, it's it's like the right thing
Speaker 2: to do. But bringing in a bunch of new people
Speaker 2: that need you know, the resources that you have on
Speaker 2: offer as a country in a region, it is a
Speaker 2: strain on everything when you bring in fifty thousand people
Speaker 2: or more.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much anywhere bringing that many people.
Speaker 2: But again it it's the right thing to do. There's
Speaker 2: no legal thing on you know, a country's next and
Speaker 2: you have to do this, but it is probably the
Speaker 2: right thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the phrase we'll hear often by different countries
Speaker 3: is eligible for refugee status. You have to apply for
Speaker 3: this position. We will consider whether the way I was
Speaker 3: about to say, the way they get you, but this
Speaker 3: is true. The way that you calculate this stuff as
Speaker 3: a country is you say, of course we accept refugees.
Speaker 3: We're the good guys. This is the right thing to do,
Speaker 3: and we do that as long as someone is eligible
Speaker 3: for refugee status. You know what I mean, just answer
Speaker 3: a few questions first and don't be this because we
Speaker 3: hate those guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really specific questions about Pokemon, like the specific
Speaker 2: Pokemon in your preferences, in that kind of thing. And
Speaker 2: then they're like, oh, I don't know, this is a
Speaker 2: Jigglypuff guy. I don't like that. Oh that guy's way
Speaker 2: too much into.
Speaker 3: It's bizarre metaphors, right, like the weird esoteric part of
Speaker 3: the sat or the act. And then there's also stuff
Speaker 3: where you can clearly tell they're not over the country
Speaker 3: as a whole. It's not over its ex girlfriend. Why not?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And they're like, okay, so race, religion, nationality. That checks out.
Speaker 3: You are from a persecuted religious minority. What do you
Speaker 3: do you know, Deborah? I do do you know Karen?
Speaker 3: Who all right let them in? But you're the last
Speaker 3: one for today, buddy, Karen.
Speaker 2: They don't even know that I know you.
Speaker 3: I just said no, Jason. I mean, it does seem
Speaker 3: that arbitrary, right, We're having a little bit of levity
Speaker 3: to it, but it is a serious problem. And because
Speaker 3: of all this this mix of stuff right, the surge
Speaker 3: and refugees, the wilful ignorance of the wider world, and
Speaker 3: the strange moves at the border of Meamr with all
Speaker 3: these other countries. Because of that, we see chaos and war,
Speaker 3: the breakdown rule of law, which means we see crime.
Speaker 3: Crime is so hot in MEMR right now.
Speaker 2: Woo buddy, Yes it yes it is. I was channeling
Speaker 2: my mom and told me there for a second. Yes
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, they shout out Langston David.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's so funny. Yeah, And we're talking everything. And
Speaker 2: one of the biggest issues here is that it's not
Speaker 2: it's not like it's me and mar based crime syndicates.
Speaker 2: Often sometimes it is, but not always. Often it's a
Speaker 2: cartel that just moves into the territory like we were
Speaker 2: talking about, because they can get away with it a
Speaker 2: little easier.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, we're gonna see why too, because they might
Speaker 3: function in partnership with the local warlord or military group,
Speaker 3: or secessionist group or Gerria group. I'm naming all the groups.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get paid if you let us operate right here,
Speaker 2: you're gonna get your cut. Just let us make our
Speaker 2: money exactly.
Speaker 3: Migrants from around the region. A lot of other countries,
Speaker 3: like from Thailand, from the Philippines, from Sri Lanka, from India,
Speaker 3: from Bangladesh, picture a country that is not China in
Speaker 3: that region, someone there has been taken in with a
Speaker 3: very strange, specific form of human trafficking. All the other
Speaker 3: regular evil forms of human trafficking are real, are true,
Speaker 3: and do continue there. But a lot of folks are
Speaker 3: being kidnapped by these foreign domestic criminal partnerships and they're
Speaker 3: being forced to scam targets in Europe and North America
Speaker 3: online from compounds that are built and run for this
Speaker 3: purpose by triads, by the Chinese organized crime. And we're
Speaker 3: talking thousands and thousands and thousands of people, we don't
Speaker 3: know how many exactly.
Speaker 2: And we're talking about those weird, seemingly normal looking apartment
Speaker 2: complexes where some of this stuff is taking place, where
Speaker 2: people just live there and they are forced to do
Speaker 2: this kind of work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's similar to how slavery happens in the Middle East.
Speaker 3: People from Afar right, are lured in with these promises
Speaker 3: of a high paying job. You know, this is your
Speaker 3: chance to get out of a really tough environment in
Speaker 3: your town. You know, in Kenya and the Philippines or Malaysia,
Speaker 3: you can provide for your family. Just work with us
Speaker 3: for a few years and then you sadly, the dream
Speaker 3: is often pitched as and then you can go back
Speaker 3: to your home country and you'll have the capital to
Speaker 3: start your own business. It's just a life changing thing.
Speaker 3: But when they get there, if they have a visa
Speaker 3: or a passport, it is taken from them, at least
Speaker 3: in the Middle East. And if they just have a
Speaker 3: job offer in this area of the world, in Southeast Asia,
Speaker 3: then they don't have a legal protection. They're smuggled across
Speaker 3: the border, like to the point where you get across
Speaker 3: a river somewhere and you just got your suitcase, and
Speaker 3: then the person who's supposed to be helping you says,
Speaker 3: all right, run to the van. There's no customs, and
Speaker 3: customs can be a pain in the ass, But if
Speaker 3: you've ever had across a place without it, you're gonna
Speaker 3: miss it. You're gonna miss that at least one person
Speaker 3: is checking in on you in a way that is
Speaker 3: not run to the van.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because you know, well, if they're checking me,
Speaker 2: they must be checking everybody. And there's a sense of safety.
Speaker 2: Perhaps that comes with that, like sure, somebody's got an
Speaker 2: eye on all of us. They're coming through.
Speaker 3: Someone has decided there are rules to this road. That's it,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's not a free for all.
Speaker 3: But yeah, these groups often don't have any rule of law.
Speaker 3: They're outside the reach of law enforcement. The media is
Speaker 3: not allowed. Civil society by which mean nonprofits and stuff.
Speaker 3: They're not allowed. None of this of that. Doctors without
Speaker 3: border's fancy stuff. It's just run to the van or
Speaker 3: will kill you. There was a guy Jason Tower for USIP,
Speaker 3: which is the United States Institute of Peace, my favorite name.
Speaker 2: I have read some stuff from. We've talked about these names.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they have a great point here. They say,
Speaker 3: this is the United Nations of scamming. In meandmar scammers
Speaker 3: are trafficked in as forced labor from all these different countries.
Speaker 3: And we read this thing for the Pulitzer Center by
Speaker 3: these two awesome Pulitzer grantees and journalists or three Alistair McReady,
Speaker 3: Allegra Mendelssohn and Haintar. And these these folks tell just
Speaker 3: heroin stories of firsthand experiences from from people who have
Speaker 3: been trafficked as part of these scam slave farms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of that poorest Hime Island me
Speaker 2: and mar Border. Well, one of the major hubs there
Speaker 2: is that town Miawatei, one of the really important ones
Speaker 2: because that's one of the ones that militaries are constantly
Speaker 2: coming in and out of trying to gain control.
Speaker 3: Of, right because it's a profit center exactly. We're going
Speaker 3: to pause here for a word from our sponsors and.
Speaker 2: We'll be back, and we're back.
Speaker 3: We don't know how many people have been victimized by this.
Speaker 3: We simply don't. A lot of these folks exist off
Speaker 3: the grid. They're the kind of people the world ignores.
Speaker 3: But we have some indicators, some data indicators, that are terrified.
Speaker 3: We know that pretty much everybody who is attempting to
Speaker 3: prevent human trafficking in this part of the world, they
Speaker 3: have all clocked a huge rise in trafficking situations. So
Speaker 3: it's a tip of the Iceberg situation, at least that's
Speaker 3: how geraldine An Start puts it.
Speaker 2: Well, that makes a ton of sense, because you've got
Speaker 2: to imagine only a tiny percentage of human trafficking victims
Speaker 2: are ever able to escape enough to raise.
Speaker 3: A flag r right, yeah.
Speaker 2: And to like seek help in any form or you know,
Speaker 2: just literally in any way.
Speaker 3: And many don't have any of that kind of social
Speaker 3: safety net to begin.
Speaker 2: With, exactly right. I mean, and I'm talking even getting
Speaker 2: to a car to get down the road far enough
Speaker 2: to actually get help from someone or an emergency service
Speaker 2: like it's you were if you're in one of these situations,
Speaker 2: you were potentially just stuck there.
Speaker 3: And it sounds very very easy, damnably easy to say, well,
Speaker 3: if it were me in that situation, I would figure
Speaker 3: something out. I would, you know, I am straight up
Speaker 3: mcgiver and Jason barr all in one. I'm a sober
Speaker 3: James Bond. I'm James Bond if he wasn't drunk. That
Speaker 3: is not true. That is not what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: That is a cinema that is perhaps fooling us because
Speaker 3: their works of fiction, Your life is tightly controlled. You're beaten.
Speaker 3: They beat the crap out of you every day. They
Speaker 3: control you through fear, they control you through hunger. They
Speaker 3: may get you hooked on drugs, yep, which is another
Speaker 3: you know from our episode about how you would control
Speaker 3: someone with an asset with esp Oh, yeah, that's one
Speaker 3: of the best ways.
Speaker 2: Right well, and especially when we're talking about crackdowns on
Speaker 2: borders the way we're mentioning the border with India. If
Speaker 2: they're controlling your passport and you are physically able to
Speaker 2: get to a border crossing and you don't have a passport,
Speaker 2: maybe someone you know takes mercy on you and says, Okay,
Speaker 2: we'll at least consider your status.
Speaker 3: Or you're an asylum seeker, yeah something.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's also likely that you don't. You
Speaker 2: aren't given that benefit of the doubt if you just
Speaker 2: show up there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's why. Look, also, this industry is worth
Speaker 3: billions of dollars just online scamming people. It's not going
Speaker 3: to slow down. The rule of law isn't functioning, and
Speaker 3: the money is too good, so much so that in
Speaker 3: some of these compounds or some of these towns like
Speaker 3: you mentioned, Matt, the conflicting groups aren't fighting for their ideology.
Speaker 3: They're fighting for control of the money maker, right of
Speaker 3: that profit center. And the places have names like Family Park.
Speaker 3: That Family Park alone has two thousand workers estimated in
Speaker 3: this situation, or the KK Park zone, which is huge,
Speaker 3: and this is where our Pulitzer journalists spend a lot
Speaker 3: of time exploring the story. You work twelve to fourteen
Speaker 3: hour shifts, part of a team, and your whole job
Speaker 3: is to target social media users and engage them in scams.
Speaker 3: You have a quota, and your quota in at least
Speaker 3: a couple of cases was twenty five thousand US dollars
Speaker 3: per day. Holy crapty, scam people to that level.
Speaker 2: That's so many people, or.
Speaker 3: It's one person with a lot of money, it's you
Speaker 3: know what, you find one lonely guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one lonely guy one, or a small group of
Speaker 2: just lonely humans that happen to have that kind of
Speaker 2: money or have good enough credit to take out a
Speaker 2: line or something.
Speaker 3: It's almost like the free to play apps, where you
Speaker 3: know the entire calculus of building those apps is to
Speaker 3: engage in cycles of addictive behavior, right, and then know
Speaker 3: that sure ninety percent of people are just going to
Speaker 3: put it down or they'll never play past the free part. Yeah,
Speaker 3: ten percent or nine percent will play a little, and
Speaker 3: then you're one percent, the so called whale is going
Speaker 3: to just open their wallet because they need more. I
Speaker 3: don't know, what's the thing you get They need more
Speaker 3: gold to boggins or whatever they call their currency game.
Speaker 2: Money for their cat's health. Oh wait, what, that's a.
Speaker 3: Whole different thing. Okay, they've got to crush their candies, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that sounds like a weird euphemism, but yes, yes, so
Speaker 3: they have to, like you're saying, man, they either get
Speaker 3: a collection of people who are paying a little into
Speaker 3: a scam or get got a bit before they can
Speaker 3: extricate themselves, and then they want to get the whales.
Speaker 3: And they do this not because they're bad people, but
Speaker 3: because they have physical consequences, possibly fatal consequences if they
Speaker 3: don't play the game. This would have been so baffling
Speaker 3: to law enforcement of decades past.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to imagine other versions of organized crime,
Speaker 2: at least depictions that I've seen in fiction or something
Speaker 2: I've read about inside the US, where there's that level
Speaker 2: of a quota that you've got of money to make.
Speaker 3: Ooh, I got one. I got to pitch call in
Speaker 3: telephone sex lines. Okay, you could do the same kind
Speaker 3: of things.
Speaker 2: You have to be on the phone providing services for
Speaker 2: x number of you know, hours a day or minutes
Speaker 2: a day or something and if you don't, then your
Speaker 2: pay gets docked or something. Yeah, I could see, or you.
Speaker 3: Could get beaten up because maybe you are in a
Speaker 3: situation where there is a pimp controlling you. H And
Speaker 3: that's one of the side gigs you're required to do,
Speaker 3: Like when some people sex workers were forced into doing
Speaker 3: webcam shows. Yes, so that could totally happen with telephone lines. Yep.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I can totally see that. You can see
Speaker 2: that in that same way, even just see. I think
Speaker 2: about human trafficking mostly when it comes to that stuff.
Speaker 2: I don't think about like the drug trade. You have
Speaker 2: to sell X number of bags or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. Sure, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 3: The drug game has done so much for the metric
Speaker 3: system in the United States, and I feel like we
Speaker 3: need to brag about that more often.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: Also, we talked about this, right, I tell you the
Speaker 3: McGruff guy got arrested, scruff ruff McGruff.
Speaker 2: It's a drug dog, Scruff McGruff, right is it? Scruff McGruff, Chicago, Illinois,
Speaker 2: six oh six five.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, you guys are sellouts. I was never on
Speaker 3: a first name basis with him. Right, Okay, that's a
Speaker 3: good note. That's Dylan's my accountabill of Buddy. So the
Speaker 3: McGruff guy, Yeah, I got arrested for excuse me, the
Speaker 3: actor playing McGruff because it's not a real anthropomorphic dog.
Speaker 3: The actor playing McGruff got arrested for a massive amount
Speaker 3: of cannabis. Oh he got sixteen years for one thousand
Speaker 3: pot plants and twenty seven weapons, including his grenade launcher.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, we really.
Speaker 3: Didn't talk about this.
Speaker 2: Maybe we did, but I don't think we got into.
Speaker 3: The special It was back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I yeah, even scruff is like, hey, kids, don't worry.
Speaker 2: Weed's not a drug anymore.
Speaker 3: A grenade launchers are cool. So that's McGruff the crime dog.
Speaker 3: And how do we get there, Oh yeah, because we're
Speaker 3: talking about these online scams. Yes, yes, yes, So one
Speaker 3: of the scams is pretty much kind of like a
Speaker 3: like a honeypot thing, but the digital version, and they
Speaker 3: call it the pig butchering scam. They pose as a
Speaker 3: love interest to entice you know, the rube or the
Speaker 3: mark into a fraudulent investment scheme. And that works. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because people are lonely, you know, we always hear. It's
Speaker 3: even now it's the point where it's a kind of
Speaker 3: sad stand up comedy trope. Right the mail order bride. Yeah,
Speaker 3: found love online half a world away, and she'll get
Speaker 3: to me or he'll get to me just as soon
Speaker 3: as we swart out a few things, and I'm gonna
Speaker 3: help pay for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like customs thinks things that I need in order
Speaker 2: to get out of the country to you to finally
Speaker 2: make it to you.
Speaker 3: Also, will you help my family? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, and yeah, and if you if you're a good
Speaker 2: person and you actually care about this other person that
Speaker 2: is a fiction on the other end of the line.
Speaker 3: Who gets you? Who is the first person who really
Speaker 3: listened to your bullsh.
Speaker 2: Well, who will spend time with you right right and
Speaker 2: pay attention to you. It's just that is an insidious
Speaker 2: and uh.
Speaker 3: And it works, and it just evolves with technology, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Because before there were computers, people
Speaker 3: were doing that with letters in the post. You know,
Speaker 3: Dearest Samantha, h y to touch you, heaven, the flesh
Speaker 3: and person, you angelic voice to soothe me to sleep.
Speaker 3: Yet the war has been rough in my country, and
Speaker 3: the postmaster generally says, I shall be able to send
Speaker 3: no more letters unless I pay the Duke the blood ransom.
Speaker 2: Yes, of seven and ninety two dollars exactly check please,
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: Hoping you were going to say, shillings the blooms good
Speaker 3: to require two forms of identification social Security card.
Speaker 2: If you've got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, blood type list of your fears would be nice.
Speaker 3: So this is I mean, we're we're making light of it,
Speaker 3: but it is a real brutal and dangerous thing. And
Speaker 3: I think this also gives an opportunity to exercise some empathy, right,
Speaker 3: because I you know, I've fallen for to the the
Speaker 3: allure of watching, Oh a scammer gets pooned. Right? You know,
Speaker 3: I tricked this scammer into doing this silly thing.
Speaker 2: I love watching scammers get pomed.
Speaker 3: I did too, But more and more I'm thinking, what
Speaker 3: if these folks are not there consentually? What if they're.
Speaker 2: Forced to do this? Okay, I get so.
Speaker 3: Now, am I making fun of someone that is going
Speaker 3: to get the snot beat out of them no matter what?
Speaker 3: Oh no, that's a very inhumane thing to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true. The things the ones I like
Speaker 2: that I've seen before is one particular British dude. I
Speaker 2: think that we'll get into the systems, like there's so many.
Speaker 3: Cameras, the camera of the person at the call center.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, the entire call center, right, And often what
Speaker 2: he'll do is focus on the manager, like identifying the
Speaker 2: manager and getting information on the manager and just going
Speaker 2: after that one person via you know, through whoever he's
Speaker 2: talking makes more sense, Yeah, and I appreciate that, But
Speaker 2: even then that manager might be caught up in the
Speaker 2: same thing.
Speaker 3: And I like I do. I still like seeing scammers
Speaker 3: who are consensually scamming is a lifestyle, sort of like
Speaker 3: the four to one nine boys, the four to one
Speaker 3: nine scammers Nigeria. Yeah, that's consensual. It's sort of even
Speaker 3: a glorification of a lifestyle. And I love seeing the
Speaker 3: pranks where, for instance, the person who's supposed to be
Speaker 3: being scammed keeps making increased request too, like I'd love
Speaker 3: to can you help me out so that I know
Speaker 3: it's you. Can you get Harry Potter tattooed on you?
Speaker 3: Just so I could verify this, if you don't mind,
Speaker 3: If you don't mind, so this, Oh.
Speaker 2: Wait, there's one more type thing. You've got to go
Speaker 2: watch if you if you can right now, and it's
Speaker 2: a series.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I.
Speaker 2: See, I don't have the specific needs, but it is
Speaker 2: there's at least one woman who will just frustrate the
Speaker 2: ever living crap out of scammers by keeping them on
Speaker 2: the phone and confused for an elongated period of time.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, it makes me happy.
Speaker 3: And the word for this online is called scam baiting,
Speaker 3: so you can check out things like four to one
Speaker 3: nine eater dot com. Oh anyway, just remember we're bringing
Speaker 3: this up because in these cases, these folks who are
Speaker 3: doing this while as a crime, they are forced to
Speaker 3: do it, they're enslaved to do it, and this, you know,
Speaker 3: it's horrifying to read the examples of people who said, yeah,
Speaker 3: I had to fake a relationship with someone online and
Speaker 3: take money they probably didn't have because I need to
Speaker 3: make twenty five grand a day. Some of the people
Speaker 3: who are telling these stories also, you know, remove their
Speaker 3: clothing and show the scars that they got from being
Speaker 3: beaten after not meeting quotas gosh.
Speaker 2: And it really sucks because if there was no money
Speaker 2: in it, it wouldn't be happening. And if we could
Speaker 2: find a way to prevent or educate or yeah, there's
Speaker 2: some way to get it to at least fall below
Speaker 2: profitable levels. Right, there are ways to do that.
Speaker 3: There's got to be to de incentivize. The problem is
Speaker 3: it seems like a lot of people in control don't
Speaker 3: want it to stop. I'll just say that this takes
Speaker 3: this shuay Coco, how do we get to this situation?
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah? Shwey Coco is another one that we
Speaker 2: mentioned in that listener mail episode, just like KK Party. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just it's another one of these locations that is
Speaker 2: doing a very similar thing, but they've upped their game.
Speaker 2: Not only are they just keeping people, you know, in
Speaker 2: one location attempting to run these scams. These this place,
Speaker 2: shwaey Coco is also a casino or casinos. Are there
Speaker 2: hotels for other people to come in and either function
Speaker 2: temporarily or to bring people in as like a tourist
Speaker 2: area of karate spots.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and it's also the non consensual honed over
Speaker 3: twenty thousand scam slaves. Wow.
Speaker 2: With that, we're going to take a quick break here
Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors and return for more.
Speaker 3: And we've returned to Myanmar. Here's what happened without getting
Speaker 3: too into the weeds on the development here. Look, Hwei
Speaker 3: Coco is the most prominent example of a larger swath
Speaker 3: of what are called special economic zones. They're in Laos,
Speaker 3: they're in Cambodia, they're in Myanmar. Some are ostensibly related
Speaker 3: to the Silk Road two point zero, the Belton Road
Speaker 3: initiative that we talked about in the past, but now
Speaker 3: pretty much all of them are crime hubs. And it's
Speaker 3: it's because back in the day, Chinese triads had a
Speaker 3: plan and they work hand in hand with the Chinese
Speaker 3: government and other governments, and they said, we got to
Speaker 3: get in on this special economic zone stuff. We're going
Speaker 3: to launder our money to develop these areas. We've got
Speaker 3: permission from the governments that say, hey, it's legal to
Speaker 3: own a casino here. And then we're gonna get all
Speaker 3: those tourists, all those Chinese tourists are gonna come in
Speaker 3: and visit. They're gonna play at our casino, and they're
Speaker 3: gonna lose, because that's how casinos work. And then you know,
Speaker 3: if we can't do another side hustle, then we'll do that.
Speaker 3: But guys, we're printing money off these roobs it's.
Speaker 2: Like Disney Springs but for organized crime.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's a very good way to put it.
Speaker 3: In Cambodia alone, these crime networks have taken in fifty
Speaker 3: to one hundred thousand people in Theanmar. The number could
Speaker 3: be two times higher, the double could be treble, it
Speaker 3: could be three times higher. We don't know because because
Speaker 3: when the criminals started doing this as part of the
Speaker 3: casino grift, which you know, have you been to Vegas, folks,
Speaker 3: You've seen how that game works.
Speaker 2: You've at least watched Showtime at some point in your life,
Speaker 2: right right.
Speaker 3: You've seen Sino.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it.
Speaker 3: Is not the most creative name for a movie, but
Speaker 3: you know it's an amazing film. It is an amazing film,
Speaker 3: and the title is accurate. So these guys didn't know
Speaker 3: the pandemic was coming. That's where stuff messed up. They
Speaker 3: wanted to have online gambling operations and then they wanted
Speaker 3: to have in person casinos. This was something we talked
Speaker 3: about also previously with a Thailand's serial killer. What remember
Speaker 3: the female serial killer? Yes, it was killing people for gambling.
Speaker 3: Online gambling that was run. Part of that was run
Speaker 3: through Chinese triads. Holy lord. So the story. You know,
Speaker 3: there's some red string.
Speaker 2: Here, that's the poisoner.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, she was poisoning pretty much everyone. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: she was, and she was sleeping with law enforcement. Yeah,
Speaker 3: married to him and then ex married to him, but
Speaker 3: still sleeping with him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it was some ungodly no amount of money that
Speaker 2: was spent every day on online yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: It was a very dangerous situation. That person had a
Speaker 3: very tragic story. Please check out our episode on it,
Speaker 3: but gird thyself. So, these Chinese triad groups, very good
Speaker 3: at crime, not great at predicting the COVID pandemic. As
Speaker 3: COVID hit and all of a sudden, they don't have
Speaker 3: their Chinese tourist base. They don't have their labor force either,
Speaker 3: because they were using, you know, people associated with the triad.
Speaker 2: So what do they do? Just pack up and call
Speaker 2: it today. Well we tried.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they don't try. They tryad So all right,
Speaker 3: thank you for the rimshot. So around twenty twenty one,
Speaker 3: something else happened amid the pandemic. The government of China
Speaker 3: launched this huge campaign that might give a little bit
Speaker 3: of deja vu to some of our listeners here in
Speaker 3: the States. And other parts of the world. The government
Speaker 3: reached out to Chinese nationals who are living all around
Speaker 3: South Asia, all these different countries and forced them to
Speaker 3: return to China, to return to Chinese soil by hook
Speaker 3: or by crook. The penalties were super harsh. So now
Speaker 3: the criminals have lost their tourist base, they lost their
Speaker 3: labor base, and they start thinking and they start brainstorming
Speaker 3: until an evil light bulb pops in their head and
Speaker 3: they say, Hey, why don't we just lie to people
Speaker 3: about the kind of job we'll give them. Why don't
Speaker 3: we make sure they're here illegally so they don't have
Speaker 3: any rights, And why don't we just kill them if
Speaker 3: they don't do what we want them to do?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is exactly what happened. It's horrific that that's
Speaker 2: all going on while there's still a civil war raging.
Speaker 2: While there, you know, there's also the fear imagining being
Speaker 2: an individual living anywhere near one of the borders, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And just the fear and uncertainty and struggle, all of
Speaker 2: it just going on every day, just I don't know,
Speaker 2: dealing with this extra layer, this extra other thing it's
Speaker 2: almost like you can see why the world kind of
Speaker 2: turns away a little bit because there's so much going on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not a simple story. Yeah, and especially
Speaker 3: here in the West, we've been taught to prioritize simple stories.
Speaker 3: Tell me this problem in five minutes, Tell me this
Speaker 3: problem in three minutes. So I have two minutes to
Speaker 3: hear the story about that funny dog running for mayor.
Speaker 2: It helps so much when that dog runs for mayor,
Speaker 2: just makes us all feel better.
Speaker 3: It's just gosh, I feel I've got a couple of
Speaker 3: friends who are reporters, or I've got one friend in
Speaker 3: particular here in Atlanta who is a anchor and field reporter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
Speaker 3: Those segues, Man, those transitions are tough.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I feel bad for people every time, you know, you
Speaker 3: turn on the news at the wrong moment. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: you can see they're really painful. They're like forty five
Speaker 3: thousand dead. Roughly one third of the hands have been
Speaker 3: found at this point. Now, next up, fuh in a Burrito,
Speaker 3: We'll talk live with the eventor of the fa Rito.
Speaker 2: Ben Bowling.
Speaker 3: No, No, somebody beat it. Oh yeah, text it right right.
Speaker 3: It was a good idea just means it was a
Speaker 3: good idea. But this is again a It's a terrifying
Speaker 3: mix of ingredients. It's an evil soup. It's simmering, it's
Speaker 3: growing to a boil even tonight, and it will probably
Speaker 3: continue to grow and step with the chaos. I mean, Matt,
Speaker 3: you and I have researched a lot of this separately too.
Speaker 3: What do you think is it too cynical to say
Speaker 3: this appears set to continue?
Speaker 2: It does seem like it's going to continue. I've been
Speaker 2: into the diplomat, which is one of the sources. The
Speaker 2: Diplomat's great if they've got some pretty dire stories coming
Speaker 2: out of me and mar right now about other things,
Speaker 2: other factors that are happening as well. If we think
Speaker 2: about some of the extreme weather that the world, not
Speaker 2: just you know, the US, not just other like the Caribbean.
Speaker 2: But that's you know, maybe some of the most stuff
Speaker 2: we see here is the most top of mind. But
Speaker 2: the world is experiencing weather disasters right now in mass
Speaker 2: and when you've got all these other unrest situations happening
Speaker 2: in your country like me and mar is experiencing, then
Speaker 2: a pretty simple flooding becomes an exmanitarian crisis exactly exponentially
Speaker 2: worse than it would have been if you know, there
Speaker 2: was some stability going on and they were just writing
Speaker 2: about unprecedented disaster there in the diplomat as you know,
Speaker 2: military fighting drags on, and that was from November eighth
Speaker 2: of this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and unfortunately it's still continuus. We want to
Speaker 3: be able to say everything will be warm and fuzzy
Speaker 3: and there's a variety future ahead, and maybe part of
Speaker 3: that is true, but how far away is that future? Now?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: We look the people again. We always have to say this.
Speaker 3: The people living in Mianmar obviously want the violence to end.
Speaker 3: International groups want to get in there and help people.
Speaker 3: The media wants to share these stories. But at this
Speaker 3: point it's also fair to ask, what about the people
Speaker 3: at the top, not just the criminal organizations, but the
Speaker 3: governments that clearly clearly support them. Do they want this
Speaker 3: to end? Why aren't they stopping it?
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