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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today are hit makers on their fiftieth anniversary

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Speaker 1: tour celebration The Act America. You have Deuey Banel and

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Speaker 1: Jerry Beckley. Great to have you guys here. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So what's it like fifty years later? It's quite similar

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Speaker 1: to the beginning, Bob. We're still together. You know, some

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Speaker 1: people might not know, but we it was never a breakup,

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Speaker 1: never come back kind of thing. We've been doing about

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Speaker 1: a hundred shows a year for the last fifty years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but the classic question would be when you started, did

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Speaker 1: you envision that you'd be doing it fifty years later. No,

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Speaker 1: I can honestly say I'm shocked myself that we're still

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Speaker 1: and really we are on kind of a resurgence. It's

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Speaker 1: been a real special last couple of years. Is the

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Speaker 1: live show is locked in. We've been through all the

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Speaker 1: ups and downs and peaks and valleys, and we've got

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Speaker 1: this a couple of younger guys in the band now

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Speaker 1: that really kicked us in the butt. Our drummer rylan

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Speaker 1: Steen and and Steve Ecadion guitar, and then we have

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Speaker 1: a good seasoned, uh solid bass player Enrich Campbell, so

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Speaker 1: that five pieces just chugging along. So what do you

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Speaker 1: think accounts for the resurgence? Classic hits? Hits, help is

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Speaker 1: the same, you know, and there's there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: hits um and you know, we honor those every night,

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Speaker 1: so you play all the hits every night. I have

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Speaker 1: this equation in my head. I figured that the people

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Speaker 1: that come night after night, those are the people that

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Speaker 1: bought these records in the millions throughout this career. Those

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Speaker 1: are the people that put our kids to college. You know.

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Speaker 1: Our our half of the bargain is to now go

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Speaker 1: out and take this music to those people and perform

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Speaker 1: it around the world, which we're very happy to do.

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Speaker 1: But you're talking about a resurgence. Why do you think

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Speaker 1: it's on an upswing? Well, I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: resurgence per se. It just seems like it's locked in.

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Speaker 1: You know. We were always kind of like, who are

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Speaker 1: these young guys that came out of nowhere? And there's

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Speaker 1: always been you know, we had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: proving ourselves in the seventies and so on, but we

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Speaker 1: just got into this cruising thing where we're just going

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Speaker 1: to power through and keep doing what we do. It's

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Speaker 1: not a it's a simple enough formula, try and write

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Speaker 1: some decent songs and like a record every once in

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Speaker 1: a while. And so maybe it's because there's been a

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Speaker 1: we've lost a bunch of guys the venue before everybody dies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that yeah, I don't want to put it that way,

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Speaker 1: but we all know people our ages, you know, they

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Speaker 1: drop off. So, uh, was there ever a time in

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Speaker 1: the fifty years that you thought I'm done, I'm not

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Speaker 1: do this, not personally done. We we've had some challenges,

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Speaker 1: as do we said, some ups and downs. When Dan,

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Speaker 1: our original founding member, left in seventy seven, that was

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Speaker 1: a personal challenge he was addressing and he did actually

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Speaker 1: a great job, but it didn't allow for us to

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Speaker 1: carry on as a three piece. So that was a

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Speaker 1: bit of a hurdle, but it gave Dewey and I

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Speaker 1: the kind of green light to carry on. So I

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Speaker 1: can't say that I ever had a I'm out kind

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Speaker 1: of the writing and stuff goes. We seemed to be

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Speaker 1: every day we'd wake up and have some idea. In

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Speaker 1: the seventies, record something or this song or recorded cover

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Speaker 1: and I think that aspect of that excitement. It's really

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Speaker 1: hard to recreate that. I think any long term a

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Speaker 1: veteran band will say, you know, we had our these

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Speaker 1: years that just seemed to couldn't do anything wrong, you know,

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Speaker 1: but I've never wanted to stop. We can't do anything else.

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Speaker 1: We graduate from high school together, never went to college,

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Speaker 1: you know. I learned my three chords, and Jerry's a

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Speaker 1: school musician over there on the keyboards and so on.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, really, uh, realistically, we still feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: and enjoy it. So now in the era the Internet,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of information that it used to be there.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't know until I did some research what

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Speaker 1: were the exact circumstances as of Dan leaving the act. Well,

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Speaker 1: we were still on a pretty heavy um series of

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Speaker 1: Right Record Produce tour and it filled the year for

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Speaker 1: all of us, and Dan was having a harder and

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Speaker 1: harder time making the commitment to do all of that,

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Speaker 1: and we would book a tour, or we would try

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Speaker 1: and rehearse and nes, hey, I can't make it or something.

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Speaker 1: He he had some emotional challenges, to put it, I

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Speaker 1: suppose mildly. He um. He had a very stable home

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Speaker 1: life with his wife, but he was wrestling with some

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Speaker 1: demons and him having the time to focus on that,

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Speaker 1: he went through a rebirth, he became born again Christian,

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Speaker 1: devoted the remainder of his life to doing contemporary Christian music,

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Speaker 1: which we performed on when we could when asked, but

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Speaker 1: he couldn't keep up the schedule that we were doing.

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Speaker 1: Now did you see it coming? Yeah, well we were

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Speaker 1: all thrown into the spin dryer effect, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the number one record an album when we were like

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Speaker 1: eight years old and moved out to l a and

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Speaker 1: we we were from military families that had moved around

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Speaker 1: all of our lives and had that vibe. So there

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Speaker 1: was a lot to take in. And there was the

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Speaker 1: usual pitfalls, drugs and women and the hectic road life,

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Speaker 1: none of which were at anything really unusual when you

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Speaker 1: look at the history of bands and everything, and it's

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Speaker 1: just some can weather through some of that and some don't.

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Speaker 1: And and Dan really did have We didn't know this

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Speaker 1: even that he had a strong Christian rate. He was

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Speaker 1: raised Baptists were his families, all from Missouri in for

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Speaker 1: a little place called farming to Missouri. We ended up

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Speaker 1: visiting out there and you know, we we loved Danny.

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Speaker 1: We were the three Musketeers. We've gone through high school

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Speaker 1: and we're laughing it up and then suddenly we've got

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Speaker 1: this thing, this career for God's like. He went back

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Speaker 1: to college for one semester but didn't take and he

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Speaker 1: came back to England and Jerry and I were still

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Speaker 1: in England where our parents were, and so it was

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Speaker 1: it sad time and it was that was the first

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Speaker 1: big transition. It wasn't a shock, to answer your question.

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Speaker 1: We we could see it. I mean, obviously we were

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Speaker 1: all complicit in that in what we've just lump in

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Speaker 1: as the seventies, but it was really hitting Dan harder

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Speaker 1: than it was us. And he had a So what

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Speaker 1: was it were looking back with all these years and

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Speaker 1: now that he's past, what did he add to the band? Well,

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Speaker 1: a trio obviously, I always think of like the three

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Speaker 1: legs of a stool. I mean, it's a very very

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Speaker 1: stable thing. We had a democracy from day one. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that happened very early on in the

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Speaker 1: group was Dewey sang Horse with No Name, which was

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Speaker 1: a huge hit for us. The follow up was a

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Speaker 1: song called I Need You a ballad which I sang,

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Speaker 1: so we right away established a pattern of handing it around.

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Speaker 1: It never fell on any guy's shoulders. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: a sting thing where he had the right and sing.

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Speaker 1: Dan contributed some huge hits for us. A Lonely People

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Speaker 1: don't cross the river. His element, apart from being a

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Speaker 1: great lead guitarist, his writing kind of skewed a bit

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Speaker 1: more country, so those songs did to have a banjo

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Speaker 1: on him and just slightly different color, which I think

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Speaker 1: really rounded it. Was a good rock guitar player too.

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Speaker 1: He was our lead guitar player, and he was our

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Speaker 1: high harmony singer, and that was another feature that we had.

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Speaker 1: That's it's an alchemy that you can't really predict the

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Speaker 1: three voices, the blend, and that was a magical thing

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Speaker 1: when we first sat down with our acoustic guitars and

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Speaker 1: he had a song and Jared had a song, and

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Speaker 1: I had a song, and we started arranging and you know,

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Speaker 1: doing the usual thing, getting these voices gone and Dan's

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Speaker 1: high harmony, it was hard to recreate that. We've been lucky. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So once you left the yacht, did you change the

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Speaker 1: material so you did require it or did you double

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Speaker 1: it or did somebody else do it? We had Timothy

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Speaker 1: Schmidt came in a lot. Christopher Cross when we got

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Speaker 1: to know him, just really fine high voice singers. If

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Speaker 1: we needed the three part harmony, but there's a great

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Speaker 1: history of harmony that's two part Everly Brothers and all

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Speaker 1: the Beatles stuff was built kind of on that mold.

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Speaker 1: So we were very happy to be to do two

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Speaker 1: part harmony. It wasn't like a big piece missing. We

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Speaker 1: were never gonna play Dan as it were, you know.

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Speaker 1: As as a matter of fact, we did some audition,

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Speaker 1: we did. We even audition we did just Michael stepped

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Speaker 1: in our our guitar tech Michael Woods at that time

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Speaker 1: when Dan left, he'd been working with us for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years and knew all the songs by heart.

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Speaker 1: Was a guitar player himself. A lot of guitar techs

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Speaker 1: are you know, and he just stepped right in and

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Speaker 1: we said, okay, that's good. I think we were gonna

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Speaker 1: have auditions. And he said, hey, would you guys consider

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Speaker 1: letting me audition and we said, yeah, you can have

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Speaker 1: the gig. Just like that. We did the same thing

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Speaker 1: when we got We had drummer. We were just three

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Speaker 1: kids on stools, originally acoustic guitars. Three no rhythm section

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Speaker 1: at all. In fact, if you listen to the first album,

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Speaker 1: there's not as hardly any drums right here, because like

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Speaker 1: on Sandman, there's Dave Attwooder and old high school guy

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Speaker 1: who played drums. But when we came to the l

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Speaker 1: A and David Geffen and Elliot Roberts picked us up

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Speaker 1: and we were we were thrown into the deep end

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Speaker 1: of the pool. And now we're filling arenas and so on.

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Speaker 1: We've got to get a band, We've got to get

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Speaker 1: a thing here. You know. It was on the job

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Speaker 1: training and we did call some rehearsals and we ended

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Speaker 1: up picking the first guy, Willie Leacox. Yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: a friend to our bass player at the time, David

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Speaker 1: Dickie and some guys had flown in to to to

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Speaker 1: audition and bless their hearts, you know, one guy got

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Speaker 1: got a ticket for jaywalking here in Hollywood somewhere, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was really sad, but that's how professional

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Speaker 1: we were were. Okay, he sounds good enough, and it showed,

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Speaker 1: frankly for a while. Although Willie Leacox was a schooled drummer.

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Speaker 1: He's from his family's all big band players from Iowa,

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Speaker 1: and he was good. You know, he stayed forty four years.

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Speaker 1: You don't, don't change it if it's not broken. He

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Speaker 1: just essentially retired about four years ago. So let's go

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Speaker 1: to the end before we go back to the beginning.

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Speaker 1: What's it like to be an act with a lot

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Speaker 1: of hits and non quantity in the concept of putting

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Speaker 1: out new music today? Because there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: acts the Internet era. They make a new record, good batter,

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Speaker 1: Otherwise it sinks in a day. Yeah. And in addition,

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Speaker 1: if they play that new material live, that's when their

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Speaker 1: fans tend to have a bathroom break. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: even we can see that we have many albums that

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Speaker 1: we can pick from to do the deeper cuts in

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Speaker 1: the show. But if you're I always say painters paint musicians, right,

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Speaker 1: I continue to write. I mean, I can't honestly say

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Speaker 1: that the only reason I did this was to make

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Speaker 1: money off of it. It was a creative outlet, of

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Speaker 1: vital creative outlet. But you're right that dynamic ebbs and flows,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who you are. UM And I think

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Speaker 1: you just have to wrap your head around it. The

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Speaker 1: good news for us is that we built an incredibly

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Speaker 1: strong performance space that it didn't revolve around, you know,

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Speaker 1: And we did experience putting out albums that we really

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Speaker 1: had put the nose to the grind so and it

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Speaker 1: worked hard on Jerry's studio and stuff that Jerry and

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Speaker 1: I had done, and and it was disappointing when it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: What happened the seventies, huh. You know, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a strange thing. You put your heart and soul into it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I put any more effort into those

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Speaker 1: albums that tanked completely that I did into the ones

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Speaker 1: that were huge hits. I don't know how that works.

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Speaker 1: But Jerry is more prolific than I as far as writing,

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Speaker 1: I'm not driven to do it in the days when

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Speaker 1: we when we first signed with Warners, we had a

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Speaker 1: seven album deal. We had an album every year, the touring,

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Speaker 1: everything capital the same thing. Then you're motivator. You have

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Speaker 1: to you have to produce, you have to do something,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm not doing it to this day. I'm

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Speaker 1: I need some impetus. Something is our project. What are

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Speaker 1: we doing? Even then? It's um. It's something I really

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Speaker 1: have to make myself do. So at this stage of

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Speaker 1: the game, is already planned to do a new album

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Speaker 1: or new music because of the anniversary coming up. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of archival things. Every label that we've been

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Speaker 1: on is doing a box set release. We just did

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Speaker 1: a show with the London Palladium that they filmed within

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Speaker 1: cameras and that's it that came out. So most of

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Speaker 1: this stuff is archival. UM. Recently or a few years ago,

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Speaker 1: we did an album of covers in Nashville with a

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Speaker 1: wonderful group of players and stuff, which was a need

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Speaker 1: experience because it didn't put the weight of writing on

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Speaker 1: our shoulders. But you know, I'm sure this is your

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Speaker 1: business as much as it is. You know, you have

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Speaker 1: a new record coming out. I do solo records every

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Speaker 1: so often. It's it's kind of cleaning house a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you know. I I assemble a dozen tunes. If I'm

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Speaker 1: fortunate to have a label that's interested, I will support

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Speaker 1: it to the best of my ability. But I'm not

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Speaker 1: holding my breath, you know. Okay, but you will put

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Speaker 1: out another solo album at something. Yeah, I've got one

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Speaker 1: coming out in September. Will you do it yourself? They'll

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Speaker 1: be a label. Well, it's done. But this one is

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Speaker 1: on Blue Alwan, which I didn't last and it's a

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Speaker 1: lovely small something like you've made it something to happen.

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Speaker 1: He's street email exactly. He's got that. Kirk Pesk's got

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Speaker 1: great ears, this guy who runs this and he did

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Speaker 1: an album. I did an album with him a few

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Speaker 1: years back. It was just a pleasure from start to finish.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's a different it's a different time.

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Speaker 1: So if you cut the record at home and you

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Speaker 1: make a deal with Blue Alawn, do they give you

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Speaker 1: any money? Well, yeah, what do you have? What do

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Speaker 1: you call that harshold question? Anybody? Yeah, there's enough to

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Speaker 1: enough to warrant the effort. But I think, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: all I needed. Let's go back to the beginning. Let's

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Speaker 1: buy for Kate. Let's start first with you. Jerry, So

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Speaker 1: where you from? Originally? I was born in Fort Worth, Texas.

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Speaker 1: My dad, as Dewey's, was in the U. S. Air Force.

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Speaker 1: I moved to England when I was one year old,

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Speaker 1: so I have no memory of Texas. Okay, your father

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Speaker 1: did what in the year force? He was a sack

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Speaker 1: bomber pilot. He flew beef fifty twos during the Cold War,

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Speaker 1: and he ended up at the Joint chiefs of Staff

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Speaker 1: at the Pentagon, and when we met, he was the

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Speaker 1: commander of the U. S Air Force in the UK.

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Speaker 1: So he and I know some other people with the

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Speaker 1: military fathers. And it's not irrelevant where you're living. It's

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Speaker 1: not like growing up with a regular suburban dad. You you,

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Speaker 1: as anybody that grows up in the service, would know

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Speaker 1: that you're you're denied a hometown, you're denied lifetime friends.

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Speaker 1: You moved from the minute and the get go. The

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Speaker 1: only good news in that, well, there's quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of good news. It broadens your horizons. You see the

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Speaker 1: world in a much broader way than most people would

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Speaker 1: living in a in the town that they were born.

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Speaker 1: But also everybody that you are with is in the

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Speaker 1: same boat. You're not sitting there going why do I

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Speaker 1: feel different from all of these people. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you had ten years of some kind of stability and

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Speaker 1: then your mom remarries a guy in the service or something.

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Speaker 1: So we are all in that same boat. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's something we shared and it's it was a

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Speaker 1: bonding element rather than an alienating thing. Okay, but your father,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we see movies like The Great Cian Tini.

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Speaker 1: What's it like having it's the only thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: But what's it like having such a military success as

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Speaker 1: your father? He was being a sack bomber pilot. He

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Speaker 1: was gone a lot. It was secret at the time,

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Speaker 1: but during the Cold War, they would go out of

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Speaker 1: an air base and Goose Bay, Labrador and fly around

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Speaker 1: the Arctic Circle for two weeks at a time, staying

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Speaker 1: in the air. I'll be like in the movies where

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Speaker 1: they refuel from in the air. So he would be

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Speaker 1: gone for weeks and and I we weren't allowed to

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Speaker 1: even ask where he was and stuff. So there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of absent dad stuff. But he was an

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Speaker 1: incredibly devoted father and one of our biggest fans. He

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Speaker 1: kept a scrapbook from day one, and he was very

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Speaker 1: proud of all of us. And in your particular case,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of in the house, was he strict,

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Speaker 1: because in the military he wasn't. He was. I have

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Speaker 1: great memories of all of this. But for example, when

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Speaker 1: we we got stationed in England and there was a

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Speaker 1: somewhat of a welcoming parmade. The parade the new base

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Speaker 1: commander and I had quite long hair at the time,

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Speaker 1: and he said you might want to skip that one, son,

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Speaker 1: you know. He he wasn't the kind that said, you know,

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Speaker 1: look sharp and okay. So you were one years old

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Speaker 1: when you moved to London from Fort Worth and then

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Speaker 1: were you in London the rest of the time. I

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Speaker 1: was there till I was five or six, and then

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Speaker 1: I moved to um off At Air Base in Omaha, Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: which was a SEC base, and we were there a

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Speaker 1: few years. Then we were in Ohio for a couple

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Speaker 1: and then when he got stationed at the Pentagon, we

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Speaker 1: moved to the DC area and I was there till

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Speaker 1: sixty five, and we went to Germany, were at Ramstein

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Speaker 1: Air Force Base for a year, then went to England

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Speaker 1: and that's where I met Dewey for our last two

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Speaker 1: years of high school. So you were going for the

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Speaker 1: last two years of high school. Now, Dewey, what's your backstory? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, my dad saluted Jerry's dad, that was

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Speaker 1: the senior master's large in the Air Force. But but

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Speaker 1: but they knew each other. They you know, they probably

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Speaker 1: did a small base well that when we became, when

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Speaker 1: we broke afterwards, but it was a small base. It

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Speaker 1: was more of an administrative base by then. Your dad,

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Speaker 1: his dad wasn't really flying at that point, and my

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Speaker 1: dad was born and raised in Alaska and really yeah

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Speaker 1: and wait wait, so that must have been like the twenties.

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Speaker 1: It was third how his dad was army as it

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Speaker 1: turned out, and he and his older brother, first chance

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Speaker 1: they could, signed up for Uncle Lart went into the army.

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Speaker 1: My dad, I went to the Air Force and his

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Speaker 1: first UH stationing was in Yorkshire, England, where he met

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Speaker 1: my mom and I was born, So I was born

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Speaker 1: in Yorkshire, England. By the way, Jerry didn't mention your

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Speaker 1: mom's English to my mother is English. So then he

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Speaker 1: and your father met her in the UK during the

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Speaker 1: war World War two. And now did your parents stay together, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they did in yours and mine right, and my mother

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Speaker 1: passed away in but we we did the same thing.

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Speaker 1: My dad was actually off it also. My dad was

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Speaker 1: in communications, radar and stuff. He was in the Korean War,

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Speaker 1: and we lived in several places. Biloxi, Mississippi, was a

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Speaker 1: training base. Where were you born born? In Harrogat, Yorkshire, England.

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Speaker 1: He could never be president, probably not, thank goodness, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I was similar to Jerry. We only stayed there

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Speaker 1: a year or so and went back to this U

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Speaker 1: s UM and we bounced around Pensacola, Florida, Long Island,

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Speaker 1: New York, Biloxi twice, Omaha. Coincidentally, when Jerry and I

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Speaker 1: compared notes, we realized as we were living in the

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Speaker 1: same place at the same time in Omaha. Dads were

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Speaker 1: there because Sack Headquarters in Omaha, so that's the big

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Speaker 1: Air Force space there. And then we were out here

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Speaker 1: in California, Vandenburg Air Force Base. My dad was part

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Speaker 1: of a team that fired some missiles out there in

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Speaker 1: sixty two sixty three. And San Jose, California. There's another

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Speaker 1: base up there, Sunny Vale. But then we went back

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Speaker 1: to England in sixty five two. Um we left San Jose.

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Speaker 1: The music scene was happening in the Bay area. Then

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Speaker 1: that's when I was really starting to feel some stuff

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Speaker 1: going on. And we moved to Norfolk, England, a base

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Speaker 1: they're called Lake and Heath Milden Hall. So I did

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Speaker 1: my sophomore year of high school there and then he

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Speaker 1: was transferred down to London. The base where we met

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Speaker 1: and Jerry and I and Dan and the rest of

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Speaker 1: the people we met and friends were there at the

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Speaker 1: Central High London, England. Okay, now, is that an American

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Speaker 1: school dependents? There was another one in the heart of

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Speaker 1: London called a s L which was for more of

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Speaker 1: m kind of kids of oil companies and things and

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Speaker 1: executive civilian kids. But this was outside of London and

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Speaker 1: it was basically for the kids stationed in their parents

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Speaker 1: at the base. And how many kids went to that

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Speaker 1: school was a hundred and something a graduating class sixty

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Speaker 1: nine graduate, all quantit huts. You know. It was an

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Speaker 1: A base. Yeah, it's all r A F bases that

385
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Speaker 1: the U S leases. I guess the same deal in

386
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Speaker 1: Germany and everywhere else Belgium. But okay, just a cover

387
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Speaker 1: for a second. Dan's back story was essentially the same.

388
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Speaker 1: He came. He came the senior year. He wasn't there

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Speaker 1: for the last two years. His dad was a colonel

390
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Speaker 1: who worked in the b X system, the supply system,

391
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Speaker 1: and he had a totally different He lived in Japan

392
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Speaker 1: and the Philippines and Pakistan and stuff. Fascinating story. But

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Speaker 1: we all ended up outside of line. His father was

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Speaker 1: in the Air Force Colonel. Okay, so you're in London

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Speaker 1: in the late sixty for someone who lives like in America,

396
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Speaker 1: that sounds like a paradise for musical for American teenagers,

397
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Speaker 1: are you kids? Yeah, we'd see all kinds of great music.

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Speaker 1: So you did partake of that. Yeah. We saw King

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Speaker 1: Crimson every day or was it once a week? It

400
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 1: was a five day or five nights at the Marquee

401
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Speaker 1: when they first started, and we went every night. We

402
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Speaker 1: were like stunned, you know, Robert greg like, but we

403
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Speaker 1: saw all kinds of great music. You know else comes

404
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Speaker 1: to mind Led Zeppelin a couple of times they were

405
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Speaker 1: just kind of firing up. I saw Jimi Hendricks at

406
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Speaker 1: the Royal Albert Hall. That was great. Um. We saw

407
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Speaker 1: the Stones in Hyde Park and really have to Brian

408
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 1: Jones let letting go of the butterflies that didn't fly. Uh.

409
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Speaker 1: There's a place called the Lyceum Ballroom, the Roundhouse, which

410
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Speaker 1: we ultimately that was when we when we first started

411
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Speaker 1: getting some traction, we were playing the Roundhouse. Um. Uh.

412
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Speaker 1: There was just a lot of the festivals. The Bath

413
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Speaker 1: Festival was a great festival in nine seventy that had

414
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Speaker 1: a bunch of American acts. We wanted to go see

415
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Speaker 1: all these American acts because they were coming over Miss

416
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Speaker 1: Janis Joplin. We saw the James Gang at the Lyceum.

417
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Speaker 1: You know, Three Dog Night Sly came over here in London,

418
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Speaker 1: so everybody played London. So when did both of you

419
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Speaker 1: start playing musical instruments? Hey, I started piano when I

420
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Speaker 1: was three, when we're living in England. The house was

421
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Speaker 1: a furnished house and it had a piano in it,

422
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Speaker 1: and I was just starting to fiddle around. And my

423
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Speaker 1: mom thought, he seems keen on this. Um. Got me,

424
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Speaker 1: got me some lessons, and I took. I took lessons

425
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Speaker 1: till I was ten, and then at that point guitars

426
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Speaker 1: seemed cooler than piano, so I switched to guitar. Well,

427
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Speaker 1: if you played piano at one time, you could read music.

428
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,959
Speaker 1: You could read music. Today I can follow along. I

429
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: can't site read anymore, but I could when I was ten.

430
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: I could read anything you put in front of me.

431
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 1: So you were a good piano player. I was all right, Okay, yeah,

432
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: he's our Jarre's our musical director. You're not. But we

433
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: put all of the stuff in his hands. He's really

434
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: great at that. And when we get into arranging and

435
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: so on. Um, I picked up a guitar in sixty

436
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: sixty three music. Yeah, it was in uh, Dick Dale lost.

437
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: We lost recently and that was a sad moment for me.

438
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: And I'm really glad because that I'd met him and

439
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: seen him. We actually Dick Dale open for us one day.

440
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: But um so it surf music, single notes, stuff, d D.

441
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: I'm not schooled. I'm really the worst when it comes

442
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: to that. Within our umbrella, I'm comfortable. It's really tough

443
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: for me to even sit down and jam with guys.

444
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: But but I enjoyed that. And then the Beach Boys

445
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: came along right in that same time. It's Safari's and

446
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: and um the Shantas and the Ventures and so then

447
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: then the Beach Boys came along and then we moved that.

448
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: That year was huge for me. It was like eighth

449
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: grade or something grade and it was the Kennedy Assassination.

450
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: It was Ali knocking out Sunny List, and it was

451
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: the Beatles sixty four there on Ed Sullivan the thing

452
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: you hear every I'm sure Bob, everybody you talked to

453
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: that Beatles thing on Ed Sullivan and we were, you know, smitten,

454
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: and now we're going to England, oh wow, and it's

455
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: just snowball from there. But I never did get off

456
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 1: my butt and get into some music theory and learn

457
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: some things. You know. I was always depending on the

458
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: other guys in the band. It's a relative thing, you know.

459
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I went through uh Bill Evans thing

460
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: recently where I went back and listened to all of

461
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: that stuff Walster Debbie and stuff, and it just so

462
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: humbling when you see somebody who really knew what they

463
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: were doing. You see, that's what it's for. I had

464
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: it all wrong. Yeah, but you know, some people the

465
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 1: least talent have created some of the greatest records. Well,

466
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: but I think when you say the least talent at

467
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: least least school, I always think of that like a

468
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: guy like Bill Withers, who wrote some of the greatest

469
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: songs ever. If you just sat at a piano in

470
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: sometimes in my life, you know, it's just it's just

471
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: this on a ladder thing. But it couldn't be a

472
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: better song. It's an incredible song, but it's very simple. Okay,

473
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,719
Speaker 1: So at this point you're thrown together in high school.

474
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: Do you think there's any chance you're going to be

475
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: professional musicians before you form the act? No? No, I

476
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: think that that curve when you change from boy. We're

477
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: having a great time Fridays at the teen club too.

478
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: We're actually going to make a living at this. There's

479
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: a story that I've told where, um, we were actually

480
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: going to try and make this as a profession. And

481
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: my dad was a bit concerned because we both just graduated,

482
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: and my my brother was coming over from the States

483
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: and he when he came over, he said, no, He said,

484
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: when you come, I'd like you to have a word

485
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: with your brother because we're not so sure this music

486
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: thing is really going to pan out. And by the

487
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: time he got their Horse with No Name was number one,

488
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: and he said to my dad, well, what do you

489
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: want to tell him that staying okay? Was there any

490
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: of the thing your father said, Hey, you got to

491
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: go to college. Well, this happened so quickly for us

492
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: that we never got to that point of I don't know.

493
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: I mean, we put out a first album in a

494
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: single that went basically number one around the world, so

495
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: there was not a lot of second guessing about it

496
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: that everybody, including the label, was just over the moon.

497
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: You know. See when we get when we graduated in

498
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: sixty nine, whatever that is June, Dan did go. We

499
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: worked at the base to make some money. Hey, we

500
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: got a job. We were working in the warehouse in

501
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: the cafeteria. Dan's dad, as Jerry said, was part of

502
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: the b X and the food services or something's Colonel Peak.

503
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: So he got us a job there in the on

504
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: the base. But Dan was slater to go to college

505
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: and his family, I think, and we never really talked

506
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: about it much. I mean we were worried about the

507
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: draft of course at that point. And Dan did go

508
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: off and do one semester. Jerry and I stayed and

509
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: worked at the base. I actually took a shot at

510
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: drama school. I'd love the school plays and I thought,

511
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: you know England Thespian's. You know, I bailed out of

512
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: that after about three months. It was called the Corona

513
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: Academy of Dramatic Arts, and like Mark Lester, it was

514
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: for kids. It was a kid's school, teenagers and so on.

515
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: But I was in way over my head and you know,

516
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: they were doing ballet and fencing and whatever, and I'm

517
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: going okay. Meanwhile, I'm talking with Jerre a lot and

518
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 1: We're hanging out in London, and uh, that's one thing

519
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: led to another. The music was still the thread. We

520
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: still wanted to play some music, see some music. We

521
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: were still learning. It was exciting the scene in London,

522
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: you know, and before you know it, I'm writing a

523
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: couple of songs. And this I was living with another

524
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: guy my parents. My dad had retired from the Air

525
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: Force and went back up to Yorkshire with my mother,

526
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: who always wanted to go home, and they got a

527
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: pub up there. But I stayed down in London with

528
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: another kid that was going to high school, John Alcazar,

529
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: and was drumming in the room, you know, going to

530
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: the base to work and playing my guitar and came

531
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: up with some songs. Jerry was doing the same. And Jerry,

532
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: you can pick it up there because you started getting

533
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: some sessions in London. I was doing. I was, you know,

534
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: you read liner notes, and I knew where the studios were.

535
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: So I would go down and basically offer my because

536
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: I could play most things adequately, and I'd offer myself

537
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: that what do you need a base? Keyboards? And so

538
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: I started playing on some people's demos at Morgan Studios

539
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: and a couple of other studios, and they would give

540
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: me studio time in return. They wouldn't pay me. They

541
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: say you can use it from you know, like ten

542
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: at night or something. So I started cutting some of

543
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: my earlier and it it led to some of the

544
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: earliest context that we eventually used in the in the business.

545
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: So but at that time at ten PM and later

546
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: you're cutting by yourself or the other two. Well, no,

547
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: not not doing. I hadn't involved doing in this. I

548
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: was working with whoever was basically hiring me from the studio.

549
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: They say are you available, you know on wednes Day

550
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: they need a bass player, and I sure go in

551
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: and I'd play on whatever gig on the base. Well,

552
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: that was kind of the segueing time when it started

553
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: this started to take over. We basically just worked the summer.

554
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: You know, we drove a fork lift and made tea

555
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: from you got to drive afore. Yeah, we were tea

556
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: boys too for the bridge because they always have British

557
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: guys working with the Americans. You could just it's like

558
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: that thing, you got to share this thing and alright,

559
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: YouTube out go get the tea and bring me a

560
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: box of Swan which for matches and you know, uh,

561
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: cigarettes and things like that. We were we realized that

562
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: if you were a tea boy, you could leave early,

563
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: could go out and the tea was like ten to

564
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: ten twenty, but you could leave about nine fifteen, take

565
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: people's orders. Then you set up the tea and it's

566
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: over at ten twenty, but it has to be cleaned up,

567
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: so we could fudge it into about two and a.

568
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: Good jobs like that, you make your own work so

569
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: you don't have to work those lazy Yankee kids. Okay,

570
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: what about the draft? What did you two guys? It

571
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: was lottery by that right, and we had pretty good numbers.

572
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: Dan had a bad number. And Dan had come back

573
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: by then and he did get the crap number. I

574
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: mean he was and he had to go to Germany

575
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: to take his physical because you had to go wherever

576
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: the whatever the um area that well, it didn't need

577
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: to be an army base, and it wasn't. We didn't

578
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: have an army in the uk um it What happened

579
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: he well, he had he had some childhood illnesses that

580
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: were undiagnosed, at least one apparently literally on his medical

581
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: record undiged what we don't want anybody with an undiagnosed

582
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: as ease um. So he got the four f And

583
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: do you remember what your numbers were? I think I

584
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: was in the one hundreds somewhere. I think it was

585
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: like two hundreds, but I remember that. Okay, So let

586
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: me be clear. When you're in high school, you're doing

587
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: it on Friday afternoon? Is that the time when you

588
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: say there's a band or really does the band complay?

589
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: There was there was a band we played. We played together,

590
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: not all three at the same time. There was a

591
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: band that Dewey and I were in, and then Dewey

592
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: left and Dan came in the band. But this, here's

593
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: this is just topt It was cover. So I think

594
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: that the thing it changed when instead of just covers,

595
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: you had to do covers and you didn't have to

596
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: but we'd all play the hits whatever they were to

597
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: be wild. But we started to rearrange songs. If you

598
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: remember when like Vanilla Fudge did keep Me Hanging On.

599
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: They took an upbeat motown song and turned it into

600
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: a power ballot. So we thought, oh, so you know,

601
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, there's really no rules, so we would take

602
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: a fast song and make it into a slow song

603
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: or vice versa. I think that was the transitional period

604
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: between just being a cover band and writing, creating something

605
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: of our own and are you working out it all?

606
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: Playing any live games? Mostly at the base. There was

607
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: a team club that we played every Friday. Did you

608
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: get paid for that? I think there was petrol money.

609
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: As we graduate from high school, that's summer. You have

610
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: jobs on the base, you have this exchange, you play

611
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: for studio time. What's the next step. I had done

612
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: a session for a duo that was being shopped around

613
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: a couple of English songwriters. And the guy that took

614
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: him around and I'm not sure what labels he took

615
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: him to, took him to Warners Ian Samuel, who was

616
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: and our guy at Warners, and he said, I don't know,

617
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: I don't hear anything. And he said, oh, what's that

618
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: who's playing that guitar? And he said, well, actually that's

619
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: a this American kid who was helping us do the recordings.

620
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: He says, and he said he's got his own band,

621
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: and he and said, will bring me his band? Really? Yeah,

622
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: And that's how we got into We had that little

623
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: moment with Middle Earth Records, and that was Dave House

624
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: and was managed Dave House. Well, the Middle Earth Records

625
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: is not the same story or a story before, No,

626
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: that's that story. He that guy had signed this duo

627
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: and he was shopping him around and when he took

628
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: him to Warners, they passed, but they wanted to know

629
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: who that guitar st okay, So he wanted to know

630
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: what happened after that. Well, we hadn't. We were now

631
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: the three of us had worked up five or six

632
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: songs and we didn't have any tapes. So the only

633
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: way to perform was to take these guitars and and

634
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: play in the offices. So we went in and played.

635
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: A guy named Martin Wyatt, who's still this isn't Warner UK.

636
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: The understanding with the intermediary, he'll be the label this

637
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: This ian was a staff producer and and our guy

638
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: at Warner Brothers. And we were playing in the office

639
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: of the head for the head of A and R

640
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: guy named Martin Wyatt, and we played basically half of

641
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: the first album, Riverside and I Need You and stuff.

642
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: And he has since gone on record and said it

643
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: was the hardest thing he's ever had to do. In

644
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: the business was to keep a straight face while we

645
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: came in and played all this stuff. And he said

646
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: he ran into his boss, a guy named Ian Ralfini,

647
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: you might know that name, and um he said, you'll

648
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: never guess what's just walked in here, you know, and

649
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: they signed us. Yeah it was okay, yeah, yeah. What

650
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: was it like being on your side of the fence?

651
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: Did you expect this time? Well, it was pretty amazing.

652
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I still I'm still was numb about it. Right.

653
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: At the same time, Ian Samuel's partner roommate was this

654
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: guy incredibly calledful guy named Jeff Dexter. He's in a

655
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: lot of the British folklore and he did a lot

656
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: of m seeing and things at the Roundhouse. Ile why

657
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: he introduced artists and he got us on a couple

658
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: of club shows, the Country Club and this guy Bob

659
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: Harris have you ever heard that named Bob Harris's DJ

660
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: in England BBC. He got us on the BBC doing

661
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: just what Jerry saying, those three or four songs that

662
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: we had worked up, got really tight harmonies, had all

663
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: our acoustic guitar parts, just three of us sitting there.

664
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: He got us on the BBC, and that caused a

665
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: little bit. I don't know where all the buzz comes

666
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: from or how like Jerry says, Martin Wyatt got some

667
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: stuff going around. Hey, these guys are good. We can

668
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: we got to sign these guys or whatever and getting

669
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: on the radio. But that was all super like, Wow,

670
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: what's going on. It's happening around us by some kind

671
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: of supernatural forest. Okay, let's go back for a second.

672
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: Before you went and played Warner for the audition, how

673
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: much rehearsing gets you done. We had just learned these

674
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: tunes at our houses, our individual homes, in our car.

675
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: We would rehearse in the cars. We we really I mean,

676
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: we've been in bands. We knew that this just sounds

677
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: pretty good. But it had become the era of the

678
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: singer songwriters. We'd all sold our electric gear in the

679
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: amps and things, so we all had acoustics. But I

680
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: think another thing that this guy that was running us

681
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: around town, he said, Okay, now tomorrow we're gonna go

682
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 1: see Atlantic. And remember we played for Phil Carson in Atlantic.

683
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: This is nine and we didn't realize that if you're

684
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: playing for one label and they're interested, you're not supposed

685
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: to go to the other on Phil. Phil would be

686
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: meeting with Ian from Warners and say we've got these

687
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: great guys America going into the studio, and he said,

688
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: we've got them going this. So we were cutting the

689
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: same songs for all the different labels around town, making

690
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: basically the same demo, tightening up our arrangements for the

691
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 1: master recordings O. So you had those two demo deals.

692
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: Any other demo deals we did. We went to Dick

693
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: James d j M, which is at the time was

694
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of where Elton was just starting that and we

695
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: cut things there. We went into Chalk Farm for Warner Brothers,

696
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: which is a great old demo studio that a lot

697
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: of the reggae music. So we cut those same songs

698
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: three or four times and kind of honed them down.

699
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: So when Warners pushed go, we said, that's great to beat,

700
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, because it was obviously Joni was on Reprieve,

701
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: it was Warner Reprise and Neil was on you know,

702
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: it just seemed like a great fit. And uh Ian

703
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: was assigned to be a co producer, but basically just

704
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: a guy to watch the budget go in and just

705
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: capture what they're doing, what they're doing is already fine

706
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: if you can just get that on tape. The budget

707
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: was three thousand pounds, which was seven and a half grand.

708
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, this is to make the record

709
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: of the album. This is to make the album. So

710
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: we went into studios on Water Street in Soho. And

711
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: and because he and Ian Samuel was actually a bit

712
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: of a legend. He'd written Move It for Cliff Richard.

713
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: He was kind of woven into the London music isn't older? Yes,

714
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: he said, I've got a great engineer named Ken Scott.

715
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: He's just been working with Dave Bowie and stuff. So

716
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: Ken engineered the first album. We did the whole thing

717
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: for bucks. So you did for seventy five hundred bucks.

718
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: How long a period of time was about three weeks

719
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: to three weeks, right, Yeah. We had David Linley, of

720
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 1: all people who we didn't know from Adam at the time,

721
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: came in. I think he was who he was with Terry.

722
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: He was playing with Terry Read in London. He was

723
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: just before Jackson and so Terry Reid was the next

724
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: as you probably know that it's going to be the

725
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: next big thing on numerous times in his in his

726
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: life and Linley was available and played, and then they

727
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: brought in this percussionist, nam Ray Cooper of course, yeah stuff,

728
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: and so those are the only two additional guys. Okay,

729
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: So essentially you're saying you produced the record yourself, we

730
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: co produced it. Yeah, it's co credited to us. Okay.

731
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: Are you happy with the alt? Yeah? I think yeah,

732
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,479
Speaker 1: I think so. I think the original recordings are are good,

733
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 1: you know. Okays, a lot of people say I wanted

734
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: the studio and I'm not happy. You know, I pushed

735
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: around Rose anxious. Okay, so that you make that record

736
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: and how long does it take to come out? The

737
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about that was that record

738
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: didn't include Horse with the name. So the original British

739
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: release came out and it was getting airplay and same cover,

740
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: same cover, same everything. But here's one something that the

741
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: label did that would never happen now. They then said

742
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: to us, what else you got? We're not sure there's

743
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: a single now. They just invested and released the album.

744
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: But we went back in the studio a month or

745
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: two later to cut a few new things, and that's

746
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: when we cut Horse and that was released as a

747
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: separate thing. The album and the single were two different

748
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: releases in the UK. Okay, so you cut the record,

749
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,959
Speaker 1: are you now playing live? We're still doing these little

750
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: club John's up. Now. Now we've got a van of

751
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: Ford Transit band with three airplane seats in there. We've

752
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: got a roady guy Claude and a little whim p

753
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: a system and our acoustic guitars. And Jeff Dexter has

754
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: getting us bookings and colleges and pubs and growing up

755
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: and down the m one and we did. We went

756
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: to Holland. He got us a little tour of all

757
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: these clubs around Holland and then we got put on

758
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: the catch Steven's European leg of his tour. And at

759
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: that point it was just the three of you. Now

760
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: we we had actually evolved to having a bass guitar

761
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: that Jerry and Dan would switch off on. So on

762
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: certain arrangements be to acoustics and bass. I always I

763
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: also always remember we got this one off date in

764
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: Holland opening for the band and we thought, oh this

765
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: is and we were playing with some British bands that

766
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: were just starting. Brindley Schwartz Nick Lowe came out of Brindley,

767
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: Swarts and Curved Air which um uh, what's wrong with me?

768
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: Police's drummer drummer for kurbjer Stewart. Um. Yeah, he wasn't.

769
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: Actually he was added to Kryptiner. But and Lynda Lewis

770
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: was a great singer, young singer, and she also sang

771
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: with Eldon. Yeah, and that was our little kind. They

772
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: were all Warner's acts burgeoning, you know, upcoming acts, and

773
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: we play shows all of them. So before you we

774
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: cut the cut the additional tracks. What was the plan

775
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: they thought? They thought about I need you? I need

776
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: You sounds kind of like maybe, but I don't know.

777
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a slow song. What else have you got?

778
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: So that's what put us Okay, before you get there,

779
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: this was the dark ages. You made a deal with

780
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: Warner Did you have a music attorney? I don't think

781
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: there was somebody. I think there was somebody legal, but

782
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: clearly they it was Warner Brothers music. You know, the

783
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: publishing was totally integral to the deal. If you want

784
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: to cut right to it. Yeah, we lost all that stuff,

785
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: and to this day it got worse actually because David okay,

786
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: well we'll wait for that. Okay. So now they said,

787
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: I go back to the studio with cut some additional

788
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: stuff and so then how does that work? Well, they

789
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: picked they said we liked this Horse song and it

790
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 1: was actually called Desert Song. We couldn't get into Trident,

791
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: so we went to Morgan, which I knew because I

792
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: had worked there a lot, and we had a different engineer.

793
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: I think we might have had Philip McDonald on that,

794
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: and we went in to cut a couple of tunes,

795
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: but feature Horse with no name all came out great.

796
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: Ray Cooper did some percussion and we put it out

797
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: as a single MAXI single. I think it had two

798
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: songs on the B side and it went right to

799
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: number one in the UK. Okay, So, although I've read

800
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: a little bit about it, tell my audience the gest station,

801
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: how horse was the only name came together? It was

802
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: I was playing around with tunings, different tunes, David Crosby

803
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: and needless to say, you haven't even mentioned what about

804
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: us being these knockoffs the ESN guys, Right, well we'll

805
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: get well but the best people. Yeah, it's beautiful. Well,

806
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: we were just we just picked apart those records, the

807
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: first first to CSN Records, the first three Neil Young

808
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: solo albums. I mean, we're Buffalo Springfield fans of birds

809
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: fans and and Joni Mitchell was incredible, so they were

810
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: really right in our face and right at that time.

811
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: So so yeah, I picked around to find my own

812
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: little weird tuning. Again, being unschooled, it's kind of unorthodox

813
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: what I did. And I found some cords, different fingering

814
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: and just got those things going. And I was always

815
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: an outdoor guy, always loved nature, those travels around the US,

816
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: the desert places we lived, Biloxi, swamps, snakes, whatever, so uh,

817
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: and it's rainy in England and it really was rainy.

818
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: It was really a tough summer, I remember that year.

819
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: And so I just went, you know, wrote some imagery

820
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: some desert, the heat was hot, to plays and birds

821
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: and rocks and things and pretty simple, Bob, It's just

822
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: a travelogue, I mean it. It turned into a bit

823
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: of an environmental thing that was going on. We were

824
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: passion teenagers and save the planet, you know, and so

825
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: under the cities, you know, lies a heart made of brown,

826
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: but the humans will give no love and that was it,

827
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: and the law laws and whatever. So so the song

828
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: was written, how far in advanced the recording and did

829
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: you write it for the recording. No no, I mean

830
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: that we were, like I said, we were writing kind of.

831
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: It was the second nature now and you go back

832
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: to your room or whatever. The distractions weren't as much

833
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: as they seem to be as you get older and

834
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: families and stuff. There was a lot of dead air.

835
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: We have certainly was the analog age in more than

836
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: one way. Life was slower and whatever. So there's a

837
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: lot of strumming in your room and would shedding, and

838
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: so it was going on at the time. You have

839
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: any idea when you wrote it this was going to

840
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: be a gigantic kid. I didn't. I thought it was

841
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: more of a novelty song, if you will. My mother

842
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: loved it. I've always said, moment the ears, You had

843
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: the ears. But but we were casting our faith to

844
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: the wind. These decisions were gonna be warners. We did.

845
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 1: We did agree that I Need You had this most

846
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: solid universal shot at being the first single, and of

847
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: course best leg plans. Uh. Someone said, well, let's see

848
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: what else they've got and when so they had not

849
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: released Ideaed You as a single, No no, no single.

850
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: They put the album out and the album was getting

851
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: some airplay and like this, this next batch hadn't been written.

852
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, oh, we should have cut it for

853
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: the album. We were just as do we said, writing

854
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: all that, and then of course hitting the obvious point

855
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: you've heard your whole life. People thought it sounded like

856
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: a Neil Young record. Were you conscious of that when

857
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: you cut it? Yes? Said no. Like I say, it

858
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: felt like that music was running through our veins and

859
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 1: we were inspired by it and the tone of my voice,

860
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: I was I leaning that way. I don't know. It's

861
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 1: like people who sound like Bob Dylan or they sound

862
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: like Neil you know. Um, it's it's a gray area

863
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: for me. You know, my voice is evolved since then.

864
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: For one thing, literally when we were teenagers, we had

865
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: these kind of younger voices. We listened to our our

866
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: old recordings. It's like that doesn't even sound like me,

867
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: you know. So I don't know. But um, I love

868
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: Neil Young and and still do his music. And well

869
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: you know that once the record in America, which is

870
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: my viewpoint, and I bought the first album right when

871
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: it came out. Once that became a giant hit, there

872
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: was some backlash. Did you feel and also, um, Neil

873
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: who we've been following since the started. Buffalo Springfield had

874
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: three or four solo albums that had got to the

875
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: point of Harvest. So Harvest and Heart of Gold are

876
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: coming out, and America's coming up with this song that

877
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: in theory kind of sounds a bit like him. Our

878
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: bass player always likes to point out if you look

879
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: at the chronology, Horse was before, it was before, but

880
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: that's picking, you know, picking it apart um. But yeah,

881
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: clearly it would be hard. And the irony is that

882
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: he finally got a number one record and he was

883
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: knocked off after one week by Horse, but one that

884
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: sounds like his dad apparently in his books, as his

885
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: dad said, called Neil, hey like your new song. But

886
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, I just quickly on that one too. I

887
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: just want to say that, I know we never took

888
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: things personally really, I mean, the career has been here

889
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: this long. We were still going to pursue our path.

890
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: We weren't going to be knocked off our our trajectory,

891
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: if you will. And I understand people protecting their heroes.

892
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: A lot of Neil Young fans thought it was a

893
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: direct rip off, and you know, and and I I

894
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: can I understand when people are trying to protect their

895
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: own heroes or or they think that this is a

896
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, scandalous But Neil never said anything. He was

897
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: We ended up in the same office with him. Althoughays

898
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: a very private man. We can't say he's a friend

899
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: or we know him closely, but he was always cordial

900
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: to us. And okay, let me go to a personal note.

901
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: Tell me the backstory of cn Man because that's my

902
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: favorite song on that album. Sand Man was, to be honest,

903
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: those a minor chords. When we were in high school.

904
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: We were doing a big song meaning disaster and I

905
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: was done, you know, in the event of something happened,

906
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: and we would segue into sand and we put him

907
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: so sad man, and um, that was another one that

908
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: I was sitting there thinking lyrically, at least I have

909
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: a lot of ambiguous lyrics, something that don't connect. I'm

910
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: sure every writer throws in lines at what does that

911
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: have to do with anything, you know, the tropic of

912
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: Sir Galahad or alligator lizards in the air. But uh,

913
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: but I was we were definitely focused on the Vietnam situation,

914
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: and then there were young airmen at the base and

915
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: so on and and you've been here, I've been I've

916
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: been here, You've been there. We ain't had no time

917
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: to drink that beer. And it was it was an

918
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 1: homage to some degree. I'd heard reports of a guy

919
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: saying that he couldn't he was yet insomnia, he was

920
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: in Vietnam, he was on in some jungle situation and

921
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: just could not sleep at night. So running from the

922
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: Sandman kind of a image came into my mind, and

923
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: and then the chorus, and that was That was the

924
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: most edgy song, I guess on the first time. Although

925
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: here was a great song, I don't I don't know

926
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: if you know the song here on that album, which

927
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: we played to this day, and it's gotten stronger and

928
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: stronger in the set. I think. Yeah, we played that

929
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: every night. Okay, good, I see it on Friday night. Yeah,

930
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: all right, So let's go back. You cut with Horse

931
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 1: with No Name, and a lot of times, not all

932
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: the times, in the process of doing something, go holy ship,

933
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: I have some great Here was that the case at all?

934
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: You know? Warners I remember saying, because we played them

935
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: three or four things, and they said, well, it's definitely

936
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: that desert song because it was called the Desert song.

937
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: And okay fine, which is an early lesson of sometimes

938
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: you should listen to the label because they are the

939
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: people that are going to be out on the street.

940
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: They're gonna be making the calls. It so um, we

941
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: basically played it and arranged it as we did. Ian

942
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: who was in the chair said what we got to

943
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: change the name? Um because you know there's an opera

944
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: in the den, so he said it should be Did

945
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: he say Horse? Yeah? I think, But I think we

946
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: were all pleased with it and it wasn't like, well

947
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: that's it. There was no debate even though we were

948
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: making a single. It was it was designed to we're

949
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: gonna come how long after you cut it? Does it

950
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 1: come out with a pretty quickly? And then it takes

951
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: off immediately? Well the machine kicked in. I mean they

952
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: got us on Top of the Pops, which is like

953
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: that was the crowning thing in in England for your

954
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: listeners who aren't younger. Maybe there's two TV stations over there,

955
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: BBC one and BBC two and I guess i t

956
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: V and Top of the Pops was what every kid,

957
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, seven thirty on a Thursday night or something

958
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: would would you know, get around the TV to see

959
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: the light of stuff, and we got on that twice

960
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: I think yeah, and whatever was on top of it

961
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: was obviously the fix was in a little bit because

962
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: it was such a controlled audience that whatever was on

963
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: top of the pops would miraculously appear in the charts,

964
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, in the next week or two. Okay, while

965
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: this was happening in the UK, what was happening in America?

966
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: What what Warners signed in the UK had nothing to

967
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: do with Burbank. It was a it was an uh

968
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: its own, isolated kind of company, except that it was

969
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: responsible for all of the American content, so Reprise and

970
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: everything would be Sinatra. Actually it was at the time

971
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: owned by the car car park company Kinney and um,

972
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: so for them to sign a few acts like they

973
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 1: did with us, it didn't mean at all that Burbank

974
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: would even listen to it. But because we were called America,

975
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: and because the album had done well and now we

976
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: had a number one record, they said, yeah, maybe we

977
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: should we should think about that. Would they come over

978
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: and do a club tour. We'll put it out if

979
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: they'll come over and do a club tour. And I

980
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: love this part of the story. We said sure, I mean,

981
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: we're mery. We'd love to go over there. Warner said,

982
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: we'll send us the parts, we'll press it up everything.

983
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: So they sent him the parts of the single you know,

984
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: because you had it was pressed, and send him in

985
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: the parts for the album and they just hit go

986
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 1: and there was about a hundred thousand things pressed before

987
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: they even realized that the single wasn't on the album. Yeah,

988
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: so the earliest of the release was hey, wait a minute,

989
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: you know that song is not on this is that

990
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: Horse thing? Oh um. But we came over and they

991
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: booked us basically in clubs all that, you know, the

992
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: bottom line, the main point bitter and bitter, bitter and

993
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: um and in d C which no, no main point,

994
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: the seller and we were pining for the Everly brothers

995
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: and Don and Phil had put a great band together,

996
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: which by the way, had Warren Zevon on keyboards and

997
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: Wady walk Tell on guitar. And this was February seventy

998
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: two and Horse blew up. So there was a line

999
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: around the block to see these eighteen year old kids

1000
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: from the UK who were doing thirty minutes. Phil and

1001
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: Don would come out and everybody leave, So they got

1002
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: a little piste. They had nothing to do with us,

1003
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: but it wasn't what they had in mind. The next

1004
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: week we were in a place called Lenny's on the

1005
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: Turnpike outside of Boston, and when we got there we

1006
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: were told that Don had got sick and that they

1007
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: weren't going to be coming and that we were going

1008
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: to be the headline. He said, well, we don't really

1009
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: have a whole show, and he said, it's okay. We've

1010
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,959
Speaker 1: got this kid out of college, Jay Leno. He's a comic.

1011
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: He's gonna he's gonna do it's crazy. So it blew

1012
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: up pretty quick and by the time we got to

1013
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: l A we did the Whiskey, not the Troubadour, because

1014
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: Doug Uston at the Drupadour had this thing about options

1015
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: in the future. So we did the Whiskey, sold that

1016
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: out for a week and it wasn't it wasn't number

1017
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: one by that point, but it was like number two.

1018
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: It was on its way. And so that week, you know,

1019
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: we had Brian Wilson and that was when the the

1020
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: you know, the spin dryer started and we flew into

1021
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,439
Speaker 1: New York City, first time any of us had done

1022
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: the Limos and oh my gosh, you know, and we

1023
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: meet Todd runn Gren up at the Warner's office in

1024
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: New York and we go to Manny's and get to

1025
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: buy new guitars. I mean, it was like it was

1026
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: a candy store thing. We're going to Max's Kansas City

1027
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: and seeing war Hall and it was such it was fantastic.

1028
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: I mean, we really and we stuck close to each

1029
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: other because we hadn't been in the US for so long,

1030
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: and you know, we lived pretty simple lives in the

1031
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: military and move around you've got this cloistered kind of vibe.

1032
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: And there we were on our own, wildly checking it

1033
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: all out. And like Jerry said, by the time we

1034
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: get to to l A, we're at the Whiskey and

1035
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: we're staying at the Hyatt House. Led Zeppelin just left

1036
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: there and there was still some hangers on and a

1037
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: lot of it from the Zeppelin tour. I think, um,

1038
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: so I did all that stuff and Warners had a hit.

1039
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: I mean, this was clearly a huge hit. So now

1040
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: we had the entire machine behind us and we're in

1041
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: limos going everywhere, and you could hit the radio station,

1042
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, it was buttons then and switch and you

1043
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: could hear it on two or three stations at the

1044
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: same time. You'd hear it and on Kailast and you didn't.

1045
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: We got sick of it real quick. But where were

1046
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: you the first time you heard it on the radio? Well,

1047
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: that was in England English? So what was that like? Cool?

1048
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: It was again, it's felt like an out of body

1049
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: thing at that point. You know, it was like once

1050
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: once you get your your land legs and you're going

1051
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: forward and you're putting out new releases, you're looking for

1052
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: it and you want to hear it on the radio

1053
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a validation. But at that point

1054
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: we didn't know what we were validating at all, as wow,

1055
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: it's on the radio, Okay, So how do you hook

1056
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: up with Jeff and Roberts. We would go see all

1057
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: of these acts when they came to London, so Joanie

1058
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: would come in, Neil come in and play Royal Festival

1059
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: Hall and stuff. So now that we're part of the

1060
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: Warner's camp, we've kind of got a little bit of

1061
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: an inn. We can get backstage and stuff. Elliott Roberts

1062
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: came over with Joanie to do some dates and I

1063
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 1: think he was in that he was in the Warner's

1064
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: office and he had said, I introduced myself for he

1065
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 1: introduced himself and and we got talking and he sort

1066
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: of said, yeah, you know, we're putting together this band

1067
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: called the Eagles, some players back, and you know, we

1068
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: were just at all all ears and asking about JOONI

1069
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: had played the Festival Hall, this fantastic show, and so

1070
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: had Neil a couple of weeks before or whenever it was.

1071
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: So we've seen their artists and really it was amazing,

1072
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: but he laughed. There was no pitch at that point.

1073
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: I was living with my girlfriend's family at that time,

1074
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: s into the wife and get a call about three

1075
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: in the morning, so he wasn't even dealing with the

1076
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: time zones, you know, and it was it was David

1077
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: Geffen's secretary saying I got David Geffen on the line

1078
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: and he he said, we're interested, we'd like to think

1079
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: we can do better for you. And the pitch was on.

1080
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 1: And we remember we had this relationship with Jeff Dexter

1081
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: and Sound well they were so called managers, but there

1082
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: was nothing. And we've just been back in the States

1083
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: for that club tour and we're chomping at the bit

1084
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: to go do another tour and we were literally on

1085
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: a plane within I had some stuff to tie up.

1086
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: Jerry and Dan you went over first. Yeah, he said, well,

1087
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: we'll send you tickets and we didn't tell the label.

1088
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: We snuck out of London and we moved into Geffen's

1089
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 1: house and Joanie was staying at the house and Derek Taylor.

1090
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know the legend of Derek,

1091
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: but it was a dear friend of He was at

1092
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers and they were having a panic, where's our

1093
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: number one? Acted that we can't get him on the phone.

1094
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: And after a day or so, Derek knew that we

1095
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: had gone to the to Geffen, and so he finally

1096
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: in a meeting said everybody, I'm down there in l

1097
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: a with you know. It's in shock. Oh my god.

1098
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: But we moved into Geffen's house and he said, look,

1099
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: we're going to change a few things here, and which

1100
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: they did. Well. We were all American. I'd never been

1101
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: to California in my life until we played The Whiskey.

1102
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: It was my first time ever. But he said, this

1103
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: is where you belong. I mean, this is on office.

1104
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: We've got an incredibly creative thing going on. You should

1105
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: be a part of this. So we agreed to be

1106
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: honest and it was the classic we we do this

1107
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: with a handshake, there's no contracts. David had a real

1108
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: way with him. He was a very personable guy. He

1109
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: was full of energy, exciting. He was like twenty nine

1110
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: years old and he thinks something like that. And there

1111
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: we were in the middle of it all up into

1112
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: Hollywood Hills house in a swimming pool, and it was

1113
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: just we were just you know, bowled over and ultimately said,

1114
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: you guys need to get an apartment here pretty soon,

1115
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: and we immediately started. Yeah, we lived on King's Road

1116
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: right there off the strip. We walked up to the

1117
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: Rainbow and whiskey and everything. But we had to start

1118
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: a new record. It's time when we had this, we

1119
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: had music that was we were prolifically putting out a

1120
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 1: writing stuff. He got us into the record plant using

1121
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: Hal Blaine and Joe Osborne from the Wrecking Crew. Oh

1122
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: my gosh, we got our That was our first rhythm

1123
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: section before we got Willie Leecox and David Dickie we

1124
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: talked about earlier. So we're in there working, you know,

1125
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: and meanwhile David is busy on the phone. I presumably

1126
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: because I am was as naive as they get. We

1127
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: didn't like our early discussion. There was no attorney there

1128
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: telling don't let them do this, don't do that, do this.

1129
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: In fact, in reality we had David is the one

1130
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: who set us up with a legal firm and a

1131
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: business management firm who were still with firms. Yeah we're

1132
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: still widows firms. And he did reum renegotiate the record deal.

1133
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. And at that time him unbeknowns

1134
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: again this is all hindsight and it's water under the bridge,

1135
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna it's too easy to get to

1136
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: feel bad. But he could theoretically have negotiated our publishing

1137
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: back we had a million selling, number one record that

1138
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: puts you in the driver's seat, and potentially we would

1139
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: have that today. But he did. He did negotiate an advance,

1140
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: a big, substantial advance. Anything over a hundred dollars was

1141
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: big to me in those days, you know. And and

1142
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: we started the second album and we signed a new

1143
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: record deal and that was good and we were off

1144
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: to the races. But it's all in retrospect that we

1145
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: could have done better. We could would it could have

1146
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: should have, but I think it was all for the better.

1147
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: His his cashe his clout, us being in that lookout

1148
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: management office, and he was a powerful man even then.

1149
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: And look where he is now, right. Uh. We benefited

1150
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: from all of that and for being in that room,

1151
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: in that building with all of those artists, and in

1152
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: in a strange way, I look back, we were these

1153
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: young kids, wet behind the ears, but David was putting

1154
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: his artists in front of us on those first tours.

1155
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: Jack j d South opened the first tour. We're filling

1156
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: big rooms. Put one of your other artists in front.

1157
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: Jackson he opened for us on the second tour. I

1158
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: thought we were just so lucky to have these guys

1159
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: out there on the road. But but it worked in

1160
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: reverse too. We we were able to to expose them

1161
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: to some bigger crowds. We've seen Jackson opening for Jonie

1162
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: in in England, and I think I saw him open

1163
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,919
Speaker 1: for Laura Nero too. I saw him open for Laura Nero.

1164
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: She used to play every Christmas at the film Wore

1165
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: East and that's one of the few times where you

1166
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: didn't even know who he was. And he played solo,

1167
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: acoustic and he go, wow, that's something you're waiting for

1168
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: the record to come out, because normally if you don't

1169
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: know the music, he didn't hear it. Laura too, you know,

1170
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: so that's kind of where he cut his teeth on

1171
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: the thing. Another thing was they also had a very

1172
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: protective nature. It was no longer the thing of how

1173
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: can we get our people out in front of the people.

1174
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: It was like, you don't get to talk to Neil,

1175
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: you don't get to talk to Joanie. So we benefited

1176
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: from that in it. At the time with the number

1177
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: one album and single By the way, there was a

1178
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: lot of you know, trying to get to us, and

1179
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: they kind of put up a wall and said, oh, yeah,

1180
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: we're all too cool for that. Man. We didn't go

1181
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: to the Grammys when we were when we won the

1182
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: Best New Artist of seventy two, that he didn't so much. No,

1183
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: he would never verbalize that, but it was a general vibe.

1184
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: That's that's the establishment, man. It's it's always the um

1185
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: for Best New Artist is always the first award, and

1186
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: believe it or not, seventy two it was in Nashville.

1187
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: The Grammys were in Nashville, and we were told we

1188
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: were going to go because we had a night off.

1189
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: And our year, by the way, it's just fantastic year

1190
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,919
Speaker 1: was ourselves, the Eagles logging into me, you know, John

1191
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: Prine and Harry Chapin. Now, normally Best New Artist doesn't

1192
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: really get that strong of we thought at the last minute,

1193
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: they said, no, you're not going. We're not going. Okay,

1194
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: well we'll just watch it on TV. And they said,

1195
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: and before we announced the winner, here's the nominees. Loggins

1196
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: and Messina Kurtin opens and they do your Mama don't

1197
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: dance or something, and we thought, oh, well, that's why

1198
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: we're not going there. There they must be winning. And

1199
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 1: then the winner was America, and Dusty Springfield took the

1200
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: stage to accept accept the Grammy for America because the

1201
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: people just we need you to stand by in case

1202
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: somebody's not here. And she said, I bet the lads

1203
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: are very happy, you know, which we were, brittish artist,

1204
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: Where did you put the Grammys? Where are they today?

1205
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: You know, because we weren't there. It took a few

1206
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: weeks and a box showed up on my doorstep with

1207
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: those three dreaded words. Some assembly require and you had

1208
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: to put the Grammy together you had. It came in pieces.

1209
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: You had to screw the well bay. He had to

1210
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: put it together and it's still on my bookcase. I

1211
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: ended up mine got damaged. The original one was would

1212
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: I noticed it was display at L a X recently

1213
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: with all the various shapes and sizes, and I ended

1214
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: up having mine got damaged. I wrote a lot of

1215
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 1: Hey can I get a new one? It was like

1216
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: you had to really had to certify, you know, get

1217
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: a certified letter and a picture. You're broken one and

1218
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: all this, And I got a newer one with the

1219
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: black onyx bace or whatever it is. But it's a

1220
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: it's a treasure. Okay. So you make the second record

1221
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: and you make it. Who's the producers on that? We

1222
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: did that one? We did? And you're happy with the

1223
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: second record? Yeah? I mean we again. We had such

1224
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: a talented rhythm section. It really went very smoothly. We

1225
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: were in Studio A at the record plant. Stevie Wonder

1226
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: was in b the entire time, so we got to

1227
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: go in and watch him do inter visions or music,

1228
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: talking book or whatever. It was just an incredible time.

1229
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: And that album came out and Venture Highway was a hit, right,

1230
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: out of the door. So we cleared that sophomore you

1231
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: know that jinks. We we had that and Don't Cross

1232
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: the River, which is a song of Dan's. We had

1233
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: two large hits, and we met Henry Dilts and Gary Burden,

1234
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: who were doing the covers for a lot of those guys,

1235
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: and and we took a trip up the Big Sir

1236
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: and hung out at the at the Salon Institute, and

1237
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: we just got California eyes big time. You know. Okay,

1238
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: what you know for those of us were living in

1239
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: these gas we had no idea there was you know,

1240
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: venture of freeway whatever. How did that come up? Well,

1241
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: that's another one I wrote, uh, sort of fantasizing in England.

1242
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: I had written that roughly at the round the same

1243
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: time as horsewo Name within a month or two. And

1244
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: again it was dredging up this imagery from when I

1245
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: lived in California and our family had driven up and

1246
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: down down to l A. I don't know if you

1247
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: know where Vanderberg Air Force Space is, and it's like

1248
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: Santa Maria Lompoke midway up the coast, and so I

1249
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: would and this was again it was sixty three because

1250
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: I remember the assassination of the President and all that,

1251
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: and so the surf scene was on the free wind

1252
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: blowing through your hair and vent I remember we pulled

1253
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: over a flat tire. I looked up at this freeway

1254
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: sign that said Ventura something or another, and it's just

1255
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: stuck in my head. I wonder about that sometimes. I

1256
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: was thinking the other day about the surf music, the

1257
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: ventures and the word Ventura. It was literally about the

1258
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: word Ventura because I didn't have any experience, and and

1259
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: highway it's just what I called the road, you know.

1260
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: But there is a Ventura Freeway, there's a Ventura Boulevard,

1261
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: there's a town in Ventura. There actually some segment of

1262
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: the highway. One is called Ventura Highway. There's a little

1263
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: piece of it or something that. Okay, that's the second album.

1264
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: Everything's good, you're on the road, everybody's happy. Who's the agent?

1265
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: Do you remember who the agent was? Alan Frey? Alan

1266
01:04:55,120 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: Frey at At I f a internet famous. Okay, and

1267
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: now we're at the third album. That's when we kind

1268
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: of we had our we're big now and we're gonna

1269
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: spend more time and we're gonna four hits. We had

1270
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: four charting because Horse and I need you the first venture.

1271
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 1: So we were produced at Jared. We've got these apartments

1272
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: our King's Road. We're all living in the same building.

1273
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 1: Some guys from Three Dog Night and stuff we're in there,

1274
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: and some actresses and things. But you set up a

1275
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: studio you had. Jerry was always on the front end

1276
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: of getting the equipment and stuff. We were able to

1277
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: afford things more and we started demoing some stuff. The

1278
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 1: album became Hat Trick three in a Row and the

1279
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: title song Hat Trick was a pretty ambitious thing that

1280
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: the three of us wrote together. Up until then, we

1281
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 1: each brought our song to the table this is mind,

1282
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: This Mind, but we collaborated on that one track, and

1283
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: um it was a long time in the studio. We

1284
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: were producing ourselves. We've got different players and we got

1285
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: Joe Walsh came in and played on a song called

1286
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: Green Monkey, and we Hadna Carl. We met the Beach

1287
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: Boys by then and we were big Brian Wilson freaks.

1288
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: Still are and love love the Beach Boys. They've been

1289
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: our mentors to some degree for these decades because we

1290
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: then were opening for them quite a bit. But um it,

1291
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: it dragged on a bit more than it might have.

1292
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: The recording and we took it on ourselves and don't

1293
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: ask me how we felt for this song by a

1294
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: guy named Willis Allen Ramsey called Muskrat Candle Like, okay,

1295
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: there was a very famous record, did everybody seem it?

1296
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: So you have that album? Yeah, we did, and it

1297
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: was produced by Leon Russell produced and we really loved

1298
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: this song. We by the way, we're still like those

1299
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: days with our albums are vinyl on the floor putting

1300
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: stuff on. You gotta listen to this one. I'm down

1301
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: in my apartment listening to some album. Take it up

1302
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: to Jerry's, Hey, listen to the song. We're doing that.

1303
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: So we're still immersed in whatever releases are going on,

1304
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,959
Speaker 1: and this song jumps out and we just said, let's

1305
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: work that up. We had done one other cover on

1306
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: the second album, John Martin. John John Martin was another

1307
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: guy we played with in England. We forgot to talk

1308
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: about him because he was he was something too fantastic guy. Um,

1309
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: and we've done it. We've done his song called Head

1310
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: and Heart. But now here's another cover song, David Geffen

1311
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: and be with you. I heard your version first, did

1312
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: because I think Clapton did it. Did Clapton. Did you

1313
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: know he did? May you never? I think somebody else

1314
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,919
Speaker 1: said somebody much later, like twenty or thirty years. I'd

1315
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: have to remember. John wrote some great stuff. He's a

1316
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 1: He was a tragic figure in the end. He didn't

1317
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: farewell in his life at the end. But so now

1318
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: we've got this song, we've changed it to Muskrat Love.

1319
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: We each single verse. We were collaborating a lot, and

1320
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: it fit into our set pretty nice. It was acoustic

1321
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: in that vein, and the office didn't like it. I

1322
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: don't think they didn't. They wondered, first of all, why

1323
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,919
Speaker 1: you're recording so much? All that money at the table? Yeah,

1324
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: I guess that was yeah, and uh, just just for

1325
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: for the sake of it. It did become a huge

1326
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: hit with Captain and Tenil, so whatever our senses were,

1327
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: our radar, it was a song that went on to

1328
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:20,440
Speaker 1: be a number one record. But so now we've were fallible.

1329
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: Our record now is Not didn't do as well. The

1330
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: third album, Muskrat didn't do as well. And we've had

1331
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: two platinum back to back or double platinum antains. This

1332
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: one didn't go gold, so it kind of caused there

1333
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: was a ripple in the force. Yeah there, okay, that's it.

1334
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: They're done. Um, And that was Hat Trick. It It

1335
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: kind of came and went. We toured behind it and

1336
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: did what we were doing. Anyway, it was the fourth

1337
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: album that changed things with George Martin. Of course that's

1338
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: way okay. So obviously, well let's go back before Hat

1339
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: Trick is not as successful. You're working amongst a group

1340
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: of superstars. Did you feel you're on their level it's

1341
01:08:58,040 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: some case as you were selling more records, or did

1342
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: you feel slightly inadequate? Well, when you're comparing yourself to

1343
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: Neil and Joanie, I think you would be wrong to

1344
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: do to take any other stance. It was an honor

1345
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,879
Speaker 1: to be just in their circumference. I think. Yeah, that's

1346
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: really what it felt like like. You know, yes, there

1347
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: were times when I don't think I'm supposed to be here.

1348
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 1: You know, it's only in retrospect, you go, but you were,

1349
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: You were there, you were producing this stuff. You were

1350
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: part of that room. And everybody's in their bands are

1351
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 1: all in their own little bubbles. You know. We travel

1352
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: around here and pass each other in the night, and

1353
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: this guy's that bands doing that, and we're all in

1354
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 1: our own little heads, you know, and so were the

1355
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: Eagles were doing their things. I would go over to

1356
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 1: some sessions or play cards with those guys and get

1357
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: to know them. They were all from different worlds, you know,

1358
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 1: J D what so. So in retrospect, we were just

1359
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 1: part It's like high school. It's like life is like

1360
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: high school. Yeah, there's the big men on campus and

1361
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: that your leaders and the nerds and the jocks, and

1362
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of like that's what it was everybody. So

1363
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 1: there's the big powerful you know, there's Neil Young, there's

1364
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 1: David Crosby. Crosby has always been from from day one

1365
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: we we met David. We met Crosby at Geffen's house

1366
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: and you would think maybe they could be you know,

1367
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: and Davids had pretty much a had had a good

1368
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: tongue on the world's most opinionated man man. But he

1369
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 1: was from day one and to this day we're still

1370
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: in touch and he's supportive. Yeah, he's okay. So how

1371
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 1: do you decide to work with George Martin after the

1372
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 1: third album hadn't done well? We thought, of all of

1373
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: these pieces, we certainly have to do the tour and

1374
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: we want to do the writing maybe it's the production

1375
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 1: that we could turn over to somebody else. Made a list.

1376
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: We always say about we made this list and of

1377
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: which George was the top of the list. But to

1378
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: be honest, I can't really remember what that list was.

1379
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: You know. I think maybe Roy Halley or some of

1380
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: the good engineers from that era. But we had George

1381
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 1: at the top because we, being Beatle fanatics, knew exactly

1382
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: where his hands were on those songs. We knew that

1383
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: the strange chard in eleanor Rigby was George had written

1384
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 1: this thing. We you know, we had followed like the

1385
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 1: world as those records had evolved, and we were pretty

1386
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: clear on what what he contributed. It turned out that

1387
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: he was in l A four Live and Let Die.

1388
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: He was nominated with Paul for the soundtrack to the

1389
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: James Bond film, and so he was available for a

1390
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: meeting and he sat down and he said, I have

1391
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: to tell you, lads, um, I'm not sure what a

1392
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: producer does. He says, I can tell you what I do,

1393
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: but the term is such a broad term and there's

1394
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,600
Speaker 1: so many ways to approach it. I know what I do.

1395
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: We were a multi platinum act with number one record

1396
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 1: and follow up hits. It wasn't like we were unknown.

1397
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: He was looking for things to do. He was starting

1398
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: to do things like Jeff Beck and Paul Winner Winner concerts,

1399
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 1: and so he said, no, this sounds like it would

1400
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: be a good fit. The only thing I ask is

1401
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 1: would you be willing to come to England because I've

1402
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 1: built a lovely facility air studio as he was no

1403
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 1: longer a d m I, and he said, I really

1404
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,640
Speaker 1: can't be gone that long because he looked at our

1405
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: previous hat trick schedule, which was months, and he thought,

1406
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: if we're committing anguished in the studio on that. So

1407
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 1: we said, hell, yes, we'll go to You know, we're

1408
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 1: both do we and our both half English. We took it,

1409
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, why not? So games on. We we headed

1410
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 1: over there, and when we got to Air, he said, look,

1411
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: I've held two months. I'm not saying that we need

1412
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: to be done by that time, but we'll see how

1413
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: it goes. But I've got two months held and we

1414
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 1: were done with that album in thirteen days. We did

1415
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: the entire record mixed, mixed. We prepared ourselves. You know,

1416
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: we weren't going to go over there and waste his

1417
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: time so we had worked out in the in those

1418
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: apartments and uh, actually, but yeah, we were lonely people,

1419
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 1: lots of we were cutting four tracks a day. We

1420
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: were done with all the tracks in the first four

1421
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,640
Speaker 1: or five days. In retrospect, could you have cut him

1422
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: as well yourself? No, Now, the thing that he brought

1423
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 1: if because it believe me, there's so many George fans

1424
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: or numerous but they'll say what did he bring? And

1425
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: I said, I always say he brought focus. He he

1426
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: refocused the camera and we were so concerned as do

1427
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: we said with pleasing him. Jeff Emeric was there engineering

1428
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: and they were a team through the Beatle Ears and

1429
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: for him, he even said to us when he's done,

1430
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: he said, this can't possibly be a success. Nothing this

1431
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: easy could be a success. So and it was for

1432
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: all of us. It was that was kind of the

1433
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: rereboot coming out of Hat Trick, and it did change

1434
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: the field and the vibe. Everything was a little a

1435
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: little more different. The next album was going to be

1436
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: George Martin. We had a relationship then and we were

1437
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 1: it was a different feeling every time we recorded in

1438
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: different places. George was quite an adventure guy, liked right well,

1439
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: he built the studio and Monserrat because one of the

1440
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:55,759
Speaker 1: projects we did with him, we decided, let's go to Hawaii.

1441
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 1: Why don't we record on paradise. So we barged over

1442
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: the entire record plant to the island of Kawaii and

1443
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 1: we had the most wonderful two months. We made a

1444
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 1: crap album, but we had We had a great ton

1445
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: of Warner's money and our money. He then took that,

1446
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: as you know, this is a great id and that

1447
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,600
Speaker 1: he then built Monster At off of that model, and

1448
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 1: he went and made Paul's record London Town down there

1449
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 1: on a ship. He really always wanted to record on

1450
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,759
Speaker 1: a ship, remember that. But the logistics were so crazy,

1451
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, moving in the whole thing. Okay, But also

1452
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: we put him back in the charts. This was George

1453
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: who done all that Beatle music was now again it

1454
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: had made him a current and the shocker to find

1455
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: out that George Martin really didn't make a lot of

1456
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: dough on those Beatle records of it. I know his son,

1457
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:45,560
Speaker 1: I know that he was in the studio then on

1458
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: that fourth album when they were little kids. He and Judy,

1459
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:52,719
Speaker 1: I mean, and Le and Lucy Lucy, right, yeah, okay,

1460
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 1: so you have ten men, you have lonely people, and

1461
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,679
Speaker 1: then the How's Sister Golden Air? What happens there? Well,

1462
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: that the next album. But because Tim Man and Only

1463
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: People were big hits for us and we were back

1464
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 1: and George's in the charts now, he's quite willing to

1465
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: come to the States because the last one only took

1466
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 1: two weeks. So we booked the sauce leto the record

1467
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: plant in Sauceleto. We thought this would be lovely. I

1468
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 1: had Sister as a song, but I was already happy

1469
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 1: with the few I'd submitted for the holiday on the

1470
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: previous album, and I'm very proud of those tunes. But

1471
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:24,720
Speaker 1: when people asked me that I've been sitting on it

1472
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: for a year. So I had a demo that was

1473
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: virtually like the final master and it was just part

1474
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 1: of the batch. We always do an album. Each one

1475
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: of us would throw in three or four and um,

1476
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: I had Sister and Daisy Jane on that album, so

1477
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,600
Speaker 1: it was you know, and that became part of George's

1478
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:45,520
Speaker 1: He had to decide of these songs. He was very diplomatic,

1479
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: very it was an admirable guy, tall and dashing and handsome,

1480
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: and had this great accent. Well, I don't think we

1481
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 1: need that one necessarily on that's too similar to the

1482
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: one we did. But you know, get rid of those

1483
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: songs and to the ones that he felt, and he

1484
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,600
Speaker 1: was good about that. I think we all had to

1485
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 1: defer to his choices on the song selection. What about

1486
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, many bands there's an issue how many songs

1487
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 1: I got on the album songs you got on the

1488
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: album because we're making a different amount of money. Did

1489
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: that ever come up? Well, we were lucky that way

1490
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: that there were three writers and each of us had hits,

1491
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: and each of us had has our writer's name on

1492
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: that hit. But I think we you know, it's always

1493
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: a group effort at the end of the day. There's

1494
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: always so many contributors to a song. But I'm the publishing,

1495
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: the person of the credit that you know that the

1496
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 1: like the famous Lennon and McCartney stories where it helped

1497
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: each of them because it egged them both on. I

1498
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,719
Speaker 1: think in our case, because we knew we were supposed

1499
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 1: to contribute three or four each, and this is why

1500
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: we picked we'd picked three each or four each in

1501
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 1: and picked one cover song that we all agreed on

1502
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 1: but it I think that kind of competition was very

1503
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: constructive during that time because we'd each had some success.

1504
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't kind of the George Harrison thing if I

1505
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 1: can't get my songs listened to, you know. And the

1506
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 1: first album was thirteen days. The subsequent work with George

1507
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: it got longer and but not crazy. It never again focused.

1508
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: This guy was he knew what he was doing and

1509
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: we were not in awe of him. By this point

1510
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: we had a really good working relationship, like a father.

1511
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 1: Each day was structured. You know. He'd know, we got

1512
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 1: to work on this background vocals on the third verse

1513
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 1: in that song. Today, we've got to cut the track,

1514
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,759
Speaker 1: this new track. Or when we were working by ourselves,

1515
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: especially on hat Trick, it was almost come in and okay,

1516
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: let's I want to do my song today. Let's and

1517
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: it dragged out and we'd stay up late in the

1518
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: studio and we're trying to get someone to run off

1519
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: a tape off, run off cassette for us at three

1520
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: in the mornings, like go home and listen to it.

1521
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 1: George cut all that out, you know, he had a

1522
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 1: working schedule, and remember he'd say we're cutting tracks, let's

1523
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: do it one more time. I'll call this the egg

1524
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: and bacon cut, because we were going to stop and

1525
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: have bacon, and they called egg and bacon in England.

1526
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 1: So you know, he just kept it moving along gently

1527
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 1: and smoothly, and because you can waste a lot of

1528
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 1: time in the studio if you want to, I mean

1529
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 1: back in that era. Did he charge more than all

1530
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 1: the other producers? No, no he didn't. And if you

1531
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: know that history that his he had a staff deal

1532
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: at E M I. He made no money from all

1533
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 1: those Beatles records. He he actually openly in interview said

1534
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't until he worked with America that he made

1535
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 1: real money because we were selling millions of records, of

1536
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: which he had a good producer's points, and uh you

1537
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,799
Speaker 1: know about time, not until they did the anthology project

1538
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 1: when they all got to renegotiate before we do this,

1539
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: and he made a ton off of all the Beatle

1540
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: re releases. Okay, so you know, for an amateur sitting here,

1541
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 1: George Martin says, want to record in England, I'm adding up,

1542
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, sitting in the suburbs, the flights, the hotel rules,

1543
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, does anybody ever say, well, that's going to

1544
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:56,800
Speaker 1: cost us a lot of money. We were never good

1545
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 1: at that and didn't spot that until the way through.

1546
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 1: Like you can, you can extrapolate that out to getting

1547
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 1: private planes and keeping a limo on twenty four hour

1548
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 1: call because you might want a burger and three of

1549
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,799
Speaker 1: them on. We didn't do good in that department, mob. Okay,

1550
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 1: So at the end of your hit run at the

1551
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 1: end of the seventies, did you have any money? My

1552
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 1: joke line is that we tried our best to spend

1553
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,799
Speaker 1: it all, but we haven't been successful. We did, We've managed.

1554
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: We're not like some, but we're certainly no complaints. Okay,

1555
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: So how do you end up with Capital? Our deal

1556
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: had come was winding down the seven years with Warners

1557
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 1: and what was the The last album was Silent Letter.

1558
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,680
Speaker 1: The last one we did that was Oh that was

1559
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:48,679
Speaker 1: on Capital. Perspective was the last one we did Harbor.

1560
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 1: The one in Hawaii was the last one we did

1561
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 1: with Dan and the deal was over basically, but they

1562
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 1: had an obligatory live album. Dan had left and we

1563
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 1: owed one more album. So we went into the Greek theater.

1564
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 1: We had met um Elmer Bernstein and so we went

1565
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 1: in three nights at the Greek with Elmer Bernstein conducting

1566
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:09,560
Speaker 1: the l A Phil and we recorded all of that.

1567
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: George was allowed to produce in the States. He was

1568
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 1: now kept the place in the States and his tax

1569
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 1: structure didn't allow him to perform, so we asked Elmer

1570
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,719
Speaker 1: if he would conduct. So that was the final Warner's album.

1571
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 1: Those albums hadn't done well by that point that the

1572
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: usual ebbs and for us, so Capital was interested. They

1573
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,480
Speaker 1: paid us a pretty healthy advantage. We had changed management.

1574
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,880
Speaker 1: By then, John Hartman and Harlan Goodman, who were part

1575
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 1: of the Geffen Roberts management team, had had peeled off

1576
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 1: and had taken I think Crosby and Nash and Poco

1577
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: and us. So I heart been well, yeah, I do

1578
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: his class I speak of yeah right, and of course,

1579
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: bless his heart. Phil was his brother. Of course, those

1580
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: bugs from Phil. Phil did the cover of our greatest hits,

1581
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:57,640
Speaker 1: The History album is a piece of art. Okay, so

1582
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: you switched to Capital, Yeah, and now we're a duo.

1583
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: And George actually said before we did that silent letter

1584
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 1: out and he said, I'm not sure I've really got

1585
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: any more to contribute. I mean, he was clearly saying

1586
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 1: I think as his run. Its course, I'll do it

1587
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 1: if you like, which we basically said to of course,

1588
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 1: you've got to do it diplomacy. So that was the

1589
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 1: last one we did with George and it didn't Although

1590
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: it had some international success, it didn't have anything here

1591
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: in the States and Capital. Having ponied up this money,

1592
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 1: now was given an album that was now two guys

1593
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 1: instead of three with no hits on it. So it

1594
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: was rocky from from day one. Yeah, that those years

1595
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 1: are are kind of now we're into the eighties and

1596
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 1: stuff is changing. Stuff was changing all the time in

1597
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 1: the seventies to the disco movement, and but now the

1598
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: eighties is a whole new thing, new wave, and our

1599
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 1: music isn't really adapting to that. We've we finally started

1600
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 1: using some different writers and some we figured we can

1601
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: change virtually everything but ourselves. You know, we can try

1602
01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 1: some different and people were suggesting, you gotta use this producer,

1603
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 1: you gotta listen to this song, I gotta record that song.

1604
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 1: I remember feeling a bit discombobulated during that first few years,

1605
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 1: but we got You Can Do Magic was written for

1606
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 1: us and Russ Ballard, who was a great British writer

1607
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: he'd written for the Zombies and he wrote I'm Winning

1608
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 1: for Santana, which was one of their only actual hits,

1609
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: and that was that was a breath of fresh air

1610
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 1: and that was a shot in the arm and it

1611
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: got us back into the top ten and we were back.

1612
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 1: It jelled and we came back together. I thought, pretty well,

1613
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 1: those were exciting times at that point, and we could

1614
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 1: appreciate it that much. We hadn't had a hit for

1615
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,439
Speaker 1: a while and there it wasn't. It put us back

1616
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: in in the mainstream, if you will, and we were

1617
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 1: doing TV and all this stuff, but it still felt

1618
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 1: like we were trying stretching to get some some stuff

1619
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 1: on these records of our own, and some of it doesn't.

1620
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:06,600
Speaker 1: It's not as cohesive when you have three producers on

1621
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,800
Speaker 1: a record coming from Bobby Columbia was working with us

1622
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: at that point. I remember when when you're selling, everybody's happy,

1623
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 1: they don't mess with it. You know, we were producing

1624
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 1: them ourselves or George and they put them out and

1625
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,720
Speaker 1: you're selling. When you're not selling, everybody starts to come

1626
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:27,439
Speaker 1: up with, you know, and investor trying to accommodate all

1627
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 1: of this different inputs. So whoever was the head, and

1628
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 1: Capital had three or four heads while we were there.

1629
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 1: It was it was, it was changing almost yearly. It's

1630
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: interesting Hart had the same experience, right, They on their

1631
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 1: ole material, They're an epic, and they went to Capital

1632
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:44,840
Speaker 1: and then ultimately they started singing other people's songs. Yeah.

1633
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 1: Well again, I can't really say what their dynamic was

1634
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 1: that caused that, but I think everybody's intentions, right, everybody

1635
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 1: wants to sell records. It's not like, hey, I'll show

1636
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:54,760
Speaker 1: you what we can do with these guys. We can

1637
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: trash these guys in a couple of And by the way,

1638
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: we were also growing up, if you will, and had

1639
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: marriages and children and mortgages, and it wasn't the apartments

1640
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 1: and the Three Musketeers anymore. There was a lot more

1641
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: to life, which is what starts happening, as we know.

1642
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 1: And I had moved to Marin County at that point,

1643
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: and I had had a son, Um in seventy seven

1644
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 1: and my daughter in eighty one. You'd had Matt, So

1645
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 1: it's no more seven music and rock and roll, you know,

1646
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: it's the juggling starts there. And it's okay, are both

1647
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 1: of you married been married? How many times I'm un

1648
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 1: numbered to my last marriage? Three? Three? And how long

1649
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: you are you been married the third time? We've been

1650
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: together for seven years. Now we've been married for two.

1651
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:50,600
Speaker 1: And how many kids don't you each of you have?

1652
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I have two sons and I have now inherited three

1653
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: step kids, so I have five total. I was married

1654
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:00,160
Speaker 1: twenty seven years to my first wife with two two

1655
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 1: kids and son and a daughter. I've been married seventeen

1656
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 1: years to my Okay, those are two long runs. How

1657
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: does it end after twenty seven years? Oh, it wasn't

1658
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: that great. I mean it was we'd had a happy life,

1659
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: you know. It's we've been divorced since and I've been

1660
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: married for seventeen years to Penny, my present beautiful wife,

1661
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:26,160
Speaker 1: and we're very happy. And I wasn't so happy at

1662
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: the end of my first marriage and things. The kids

1663
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 1: were already out, my son had already gotten out of

1664
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: high school, and my daughter was a senior, and things

1665
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 1: just um, I wish I had an answer for that stuff.

1666
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:43,600
Speaker 1: It is. It's just much. There's always sad stuff. You

1667
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 1: just can't get around life in in these areas that

1668
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 1: you know, I always envisioned sitting on the porch in

1669
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 1: the rocking chair, looking back at my rock and roll

1670
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 1: life and having the same nuclear family and everything. You know,

1671
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 1: it's I'm very grateful for the for what did happen

1672
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: in the first marriage and the children and the life

1673
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: we had in Marin County. It was cool and hanging

1674
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 1: out with the dead and beautiful home. That's when we

1675
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 1: did have spent some money in and stretched. But I'm

1676
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: very happy now. It's it's a whole second second life now.

1677
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: Usually when you're successful, the forces are very expensive. So

1678
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:27,400
Speaker 1: at this point, do you guys have to go on

1679
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 1: the road to pay the bills? Well, we'd probably have

1680
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 1: to adjust our lifestyle a little bit if we didn't,

1681
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 1: and the road it became a business many years ago

1682
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: for us. But it's to just call it that is

1683
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,680
Speaker 1: really it's not fair because it's so much more than

1684
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: we're working bad. I mean, it's okay, So these days

1685
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:46,600
Speaker 1: a year do you work? We'd like to call it

1686
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 1: a hundred shows, which is about two hundred days of travel,

1687
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 1: but it's it's been settling down about eighty six Sames.

1688
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 1: How often do you play outside of the US? Every year?

1689
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 1: We're off to Italy. First two weeks of July. I

1690
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 1: now live. My wife is Australian and we live in Sydney,

1691
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 1: and so we have a home in Venice here and

1692
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,640
Speaker 1: we have a home in Sydney. And for example, we

1693
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: just heard today that we're off to Australia for two

1694
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:13,600
Speaker 1: or three week tour later in the year. You know,

1695
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 1: every day the phone rings and you're just not sure

1696
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: how it's gonna You don't at least it's yeah, no,

1697
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't all just fall in your lap. Here's next year.

1698
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: You know, it has to be pieced together by a

1699
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: variety of people, and very grateful for that fact. You

1700
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 1: know that the people still want to come to the

1701
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 1: show's agents can't not find work. There's stuff out there.

1702
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 1: Lots of venues we we repeat play year after year,

1703
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 1: and it's a nice mixture of of of theaters. And

1704
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 1: of course the casino circuit is great, and arenas and

1705
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 1: festivals and tours in Europe. We were just in Israel

1706
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 1: for the first time recently. There's always some new experience

1707
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, we've played Africa, we've played Morocco,

1708
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: we've played India, we've played Indonesia, Malaysia, your name at

1709
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 1: the Philippine tours of US bases that took us into

1710
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 1: the DMZ in Korea. I mean, we've just had an

1711
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:10,640
Speaker 1: unbelievably fantastic time of it and we're not we're not

1712
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 1: looking to stop soon, you know, we're The Italian tour,

1713
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: for example, is all roman amphitheaters, outdoor, historic, under the

1714
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:22,080
Speaker 1: stars in the middle of the summer in Italy. I mean,

1715
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,640
Speaker 1: it's just beautiful. Well, I know this guy was a

1716
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 1: photographer for led Zeppelin and it's heyday, this of course

1717
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:31,680
Speaker 1: before digital photography. And he says, I've been all over

1718
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: the world that I see nothing. So when you guys

1719
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:37,560
Speaker 1: go to these places, do you take advantage or of

1720
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 1: Tuesday it's, you know, Pittsburgh. It's a bit of both.

1721
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: I think I try to personally, I try and add

1722
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 1: some time before or after if we're going to someplace lovely,

1723
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 1: my wife and I will try and add a week

1724
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: if we can. We're off to Italy and we'll go

1725
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 1: four days early, which is as much as we could

1726
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 1: fit in in the schedule. So you do what you can,

1727
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,640
Speaker 1: but work comes for We've always had an interest in it,

1728
01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 1: and I think the fact that we traveled as kids, uh,

1729
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 1: in the Air Force, you're you're just that little bit

1730
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 1: more looking at things and trying to center yourself in

1731
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: these places that you've never been. And and I think

1732
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 1: that applies in this business. We're into constantly looking look

1733
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: at the maps, look at a visitor's guide, see what's

1734
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:21,880
Speaker 1: around the hotel. Obviously it's stressful physically when you're touring

1735
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,639
Speaker 1: and your one night ers and you get into a town,

1736
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:27,799
Speaker 1: you don't want to do anything, but we try, especially

1737
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 1: foreign dates, you try to make an effort to see

1738
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: what's going on. Plus, I think we're somewhat anonymous personally.

1739
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 1: It's not like it. I always used the analogy of

1740
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 1: Elton going to the grocery store. We don't really have

1741
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 1: that problem. If you're playing in a city and it's

1742
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 1: sold out or something, then there's a good chance you're

1743
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 1: going to be spotted or followed or something. But in general,

1744
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:50,160
Speaker 1: we can move, move amongst the people. Okay, so if

1745
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:53,160
Speaker 1: you do that many dates when you start something, what

1746
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 1: is the most number of dates you'll play in a row?

1747
01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Three tops? Now, because of voices and stuff, we've got

1748
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,600
Speaker 1: to save these voice Since we were we used to

1749
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 1: do five, six nights and two shows a night. Sometimes

1750
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how we even lasted. Okay, so all

1751
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 1: your records on Warner Brothers, they own the publishing. But

1752
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: since then you got yeah, we got our own publishing,

1753
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: since you just set up your own little publishing company.

1754
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 1: So any bucket list things now that you know there's

1755
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 1: twenty thirty years left podcast, you did it by a

1756
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,040
Speaker 1: car out there on the outside. I mean, there's always

1757
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 1: something you want to do. You know. We've gotten to

1758
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 1: an age though we both agree, well, I'm just probably

1759
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: not going to do that one I don't see my son. Yeah,

1760
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm not going to climb killaman jar. Oh. I don't

1761
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 1: think I had that on my list, but that's gone.

1762
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 1: But We've checked off a lot of stuff, you know,

1763
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: and I'm hoping to still see great things. You know.

1764
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:57,640
Speaker 1: I learned to scuba dive in this business, and you know,

1765
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 1: we've traveled. We've been on Safari and after Arica and uh,

1766
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:06,519
Speaker 1: it's just been some trippy things. Man, sounds great. Okay,

1767
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: you've been listening to America Dewey and Jerry here on

1768
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,800
Speaker 1: Bob Left Sets podcast. Thanks so much for coming by, guys,

1769
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 1: Thank you, true honor