WEBVTT - The Prime Suspect [9] 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.080 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:08.119 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.200 and do not necessarily represent those of iHeartMedia, How Stuff Works, 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:13.280 or its employees. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.960 Robert Graysmith is the author of a book called Zodiac. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.239 Well what happens thirty three years later when you still 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.600 don't have the killer? Are there still people working on 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.520 this case? Are there still tips coming in anything to 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:25.360 this investigation? 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:26.320 Absolutely? 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.400 You know, we were pretty certain we know who he was, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.200 and he died with bombs in his basement and the 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.000 Zodiac bomb formula, a disc in his computer that said Zodiac. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.680 I'm pretty sure that the cases solved. So much information 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.440 and so much attention was focused on the prime suspect 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.280 in the case, The man who actually was the first suspect, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.279 who knew all the victims, who stalk them, who had 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.120 the skills and intelligence to write the letters and to 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.080 commit the crimes, was literally stopped at in his tracks. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.280 He was watched, eventually sent to prison for child molesting, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.720 during which there were no more activities from the Zodiac. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.160 The suspect that was focused on and highlighted in the 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.399 film and in Grace Smith's book, and to a certain 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:12.039 extent even for Tusking Armstrong, Arthur Lee Allen was what 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:13.920 they call a good suspect. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:15.839 It's probably Arthur Lee Allen. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.160 That was what all the main guys investigating it here thought. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.440 I think Arthur Lee Allen was the guy. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.920 I enjoy a good tussle. That Hey, there were coincidences 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.039 that tended to point towards me and kill him just 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.480 for the pleasure of it. Thank God for our constitution, 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.200 because that says a person is innocent until proven guilty. 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.400 A man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed him, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.680 leaving them for dad. Subject stated, I want to report 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.360 a murder, no a double murder. 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:54.560 I did it. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.000 The man who wore a medieval style executionershood, carried a 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.600 knife and gun and intended. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:02.360 To use them. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.040 They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.200 I'm not the damn Zodiac. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.080 Who is the Zodiac and. 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:11.839 Where is he from? 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:17.560 iHeartRadio, Houstuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. This is monster the 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:25.280 Zodiac killer. The Zodiac case is rife with mystery, first 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.960 and foremost the Zodiac's true identity. Up to this point, 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.880 there'd only been vague glimpses of the man behind the moniker. 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.560 Witness descriptions were cloudy. He was only ever seen in 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.680 the dark of night or behind a terrifying costume. We 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.680 heard a strange voice call into a TV show, but 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:49.080 it wasn't actually the Zodiac. So who was this guy? 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.800 For years it seemed like there would never be an answer, 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.560 But then a name, a face, and a voice were 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:01.440 finally attached to the zodiac publicly, one man became the 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.840 most visible and likely suspect. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.799 One of the prime suspects in the Zodiac case over 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.680 the years was a man who was initially identified for 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:22.320 reasons we don't know, in October of nineteen sixty nine. 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.480 This is Zodiac expert Michael Buttererfield. 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.880 Arthur Lee Allen was a former school teacher who was 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:35.520 working as a janitor, largely because he had been caught 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:40.840 molesting children and had lost his job for some reason. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.920 John Lynch of the Lao Police Department went and questioned 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.200 Arthur Lee Allen and on October sixth, nineteen sixty nine, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.960 regarding his whereabouts at the time of the stabbing at 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.920 Lake barri Essa. Allan said that he was at Salt 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:58.080 Point Ranch and he had killed some chickens, and that 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.800 he didn't have any involved in the crime. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.760 Salt Point is about ninety miles west of Lake Veriessa. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.080 It's close but not close enough, and with no direct 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.240 evidence linking him to the murder, Allan was let go. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:24.080 After that, the police forgot about Arthur Lee Allen, and 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.080 then in nineteen seventy one, an estranged friend of Alan's 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.560 went to police and said that prior to the Zodiac murders, 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.760 Arthur Lee Allen had professed his desire to kill people 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.960 and write letters to the media calling himself Zodiac. The 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.599 police investigated. The Valeo Police and the San Francisco Police, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.839 including Bill Armstrong and Dave Toski, spent about two weeks 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.120 investigating Arthur Lee Allen and gathering information, talking to people 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.799 who knew him, including his brother and sister in law, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.520 and the individual who made this claim, Don Cheney. Don 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.520 Cheney was first friends with Arthur Lee Allen's brother Ron, 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.599 and that's how he got to know Arthur Lee Allen, 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.520 or who was normally referred to as Lee. They became friends. 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.400 They would hunt and fish and drink together and do things. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.000 But then at a certain point it appears that Arthur 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.279 Lee Allen attempted to molest one of Don Cheney's children. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:27.640 Don Cheney complained to Lee's brother Ron, and was adamant 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.920 that something had happened and he was very upset about it, 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.040 and he apparently severed his relationship with Arthur Lee Allen 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.800 at that time. According to Cheney's timing of events, this 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.159 occurred sometime in nineteen sixty eight, the last time he 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:42.680 had ever talked to Arthur Lee Allen. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:47.640 According to Vallejo PD Detective George Bowert, Alan told Cheney 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.840 he wanted to write a novel, and in this novel, 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.320 a character would do the following things, kill random couples, 0:05:55.920 --> 0:06:01.600 taunt police with letters, recounting his crimes, to disguise himself, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.360 secure a flashlight to his gun so he could shoot 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:12.080 in the dark, call himself Zodiac. Cheney was questioned again 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.560 about this story years later, and these new details were 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:20.479 recorded by Detective Bowart. Cheney recalled that Alan was gifted 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.800 a Zodiac brand watch by his mother, and on the 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.120 face of this watch there was a symbol a circle 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.719 with a cross through it. Cheney said Alan wanted to 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.480 sign letters with the same cross circle symbol from his watch. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.360 Cheney also claims that Alan wanted to fool women into 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.520 stopping their cars in isolated areas. He would claim they 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.839 had problems with their tires, then loosen their lug nuts 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:52.960 and take them captive. Shortly after this, investigators learned of 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.480 a connection to Darlene Ferron, who was shot and killed 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.960 by the Zodiac at Blue Rock Springs. As it turns out, 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.440 Alan's family home was just a fraction of a mile 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:08.040 away from the restaurant where Darlene worked, and Alan supposedly 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.760 said he had become friendly with a waitress at that restaurant. 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:17.040 Police records say an unidentified man named Lee often visited Darlene, 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.280 so it's possible Alan was stalking Darlene. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.240 There was also a story that Arthur Lee Allen may 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.760 have used a friend's car to commit the murder at 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.440 Blue Rock Springs, because the surviving victims said that the 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.680 killer was driving a car similar to Darlene's brown cordare 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.920 Alan was working at a gas station where a friend 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.560 of his had apparently put a car up for sale, 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:41.680 and the theory was that he had taken the car 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.040 and committed the crime. Because Alan did not own a 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:49.800 Corbert or any vehicle similar to one, and eventually, in 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.920 nineteen seventy two, the San Francisco Police Department obtained a 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:59.400 warrant to search Arthur Lee Allen's trailer in Santa Rosa, California. 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:18.040 On September fourteenth, nineteen seventy two, San Francisco Police obtained 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.720 a warrant and searched Allan's trailer. Here's a partial list 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:26.520 of what police were looking for. Writings, letters, and cryptograms 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.560 in the same handwriting as suspect letters. Any pistol with 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.240 a flashlight attached to the barrel, a blood stained portion 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.480 of cloth from a striped gray and white shirt, the 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.880 wallet or identification of Paul Stein taxi keys from a 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.000 yellow cab, a black executioner type hood with a circle 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.600 and cross on it, a large knife with a wooden handle. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.560 They did find some oddities in his home, like dead 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.440 squirrels and his refrigerator that he was using for his 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:04.079 biology is, some sex toys, guns, things like that. 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.920 Investigators found many bizarre things, but they didn't find any 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.880 of the materials they were looking for, so they had 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.880 no hard evidence to use against Allan. They did, however, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.960 obtain his fingerprints and samples of his writing. Those were 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.280 thoroughly cross examined with the Zodiac letters, and. 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.680 That's when they learned that his fingerprints in handwriting didn't match. 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.480 And so essentially Arthur Lee Allen was abandoned as a suspect. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.360 Yet again, Arthur Lee Allen was let off the hook. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:39.080 Despite some suspicious activity, Allan was in the clear until. 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.600 Years later a best selling book came out called Zodiac, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.040 written by Robert Graysmith. 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.160 I still talk to the investigators on the case. Inspector 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.480 David Toski, who was the main man on the case. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.000 He believes it was Arthur Lee Allen. The main man 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.440 in Wallejo, George bauerd who's retired now, he thinks it 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:00.680 was Arthur Lee. 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:02.559 Virtually all the top. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.880 Investigators, men who I really respect, believe that this was 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:06.439 the man. 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.560 That was Robert Graysmith. In the early seventies, he was 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.640 a political cartoonist at the San Francisco Chronicle. Gray Smith 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.840 developed an obsession with the Zodiac case and so he 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:22.600 was doing his own private investigation. In nineteen eighty six, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.280 gray Smith published a book containing his complete findings on 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.400 the case. It was simply titled Zodiac and It went 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.200 on to sell over three million copies. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.160 And in that book, gray Smith had given Arthur Lee 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.760 Allen the pseudonym Bob hall Star. A lot of people 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.240 started to figure out that Arthur Lee Allen was Bob 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.000 hall Star. People in the Bay Area realized he was 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.319 the person they were talking about, and that book, of course, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.760 because it was a best selling book, had a tremendous 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.320 influence on the public and the media. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.000 Arthur Lee Allen, a long time the Lahoe resident and 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:06.280 former professional student, is the man many still believed to 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.040 be the dreaded Zodiac. In Robert grace Mis's best selling 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:14.160 book Zodiac, the suspect's brother and sister in law say 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.360 that Allan often spoke of man as the most dangerous game. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.360 His own family at one time found him terrifying. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.480 Grey Smith connected many dots between Arthur Lee Allen and 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.040 the Zodiac, one of which is that Alan was allegedly 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.720 in Riverside when Sherry Joe Bates was murdered in nineteen 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.959 sixty six. The Valeo Police Department had placed him in 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.040 the area, and when questioned, Alan said he was in 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.560 nearby Pomona during the Bates murder. He also called in 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.000 sick from his job on November one, the day after 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:53.200 Bates was found dead. It's possible Allan missed work to 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:59.000 hide facial wounds inflicted by his victim. You may also 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.960 remember that Zodiac left behind a footprint at Lake Barriessa. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.439 That footprint was made by a military boot. This suggested 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.480 the Zodiac had some military experience. Arthur Lee Allen had 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.320 numerous connections to the military. His father was the commander 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:21.160 of a nuclear submarine at nearby Mare Island. Allan himself 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.600 was in the Navy for less than two years before 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:28.720 being discharged other than honorably. While there, Graysmith believes Allan 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.680 developed an interest in codes and ciphers. Much of this 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:38.520 is hearsay. The Zodiac book laid out one undeniable mark 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.840 against Alan. Gray Smith points out that the last official 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.640 Zodiac letter came on July eighth, nineteen seventy four. Only 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.480 a few months later Allan would go to prison on 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:55.280 child molestation charges. During Allen's time in prison, there were 0:12:55.480 --> 0:13:03.640 no Zodiac letters. Then, in nineteen seventy eight, just months 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.120 after Alan was released, a new letter showed up at 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:08.559 the San Francisco Chronicle. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:15.880 Dear editor, this is the Zodiac speaking, I am back 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.680 with you. I am waiting for a good movie about me. 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.920 Who will play me? I am now in control of 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:34.040 all things yours truly, Zodiac Guess, San Francisco Police Department zero. 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.000 It's important to note here that this letter was never authenticated. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.679 We'll get into that in a later episode. Still, many 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:47.720 investigators found this coincidence to be striking. Gray Smith built 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.319 a massive case of circumstantial evidence against Arthur Lee Allen, 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.280 and it was enough to convince a lot of readers 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.319 of his guilt. Was Alan truly the villain gray Smith 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.960 made him out to be, or was Alan just an 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:06.439 incredibly strange individual. We asked someone who knew Alan personally. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.440 He had him a few chipmunks at his house. One 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.400 time he came in the shop and after he had 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.480 a job up in the foothills, and he carried one 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.080 around on his shoulder, and I think that was from 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.920 when he worked up in the up in the hills 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.400 where he you know, he said, come on up and 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.640 I'll show your kids how to sail. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.920 This is Carl Eubner. He ran a blacksmith shop in 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.960 downtown Valeo. Arthur Lee Allen came by frequently. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.520 He came down to the Leo and came into the 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.160 shop and said, you know, why don't you bring him 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.040 several times? In fact, why don't you bring the kids 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.640 up and I'll, you know, teach him the sailing. And 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.600 I said to him, I wife, well, are going to 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.240 do that sometime, you know. But we never did, and 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.200 I found out he was canned anyway, and that ended that, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.440 so I never did go up there. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.640 We also talked with Mark Eubner carl Son at the time, 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:02.760 he was just a kid. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.440 When I heard that story, my first reaction was he 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.240 certainly wouldn't mess with the kids of a friend of his. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:13.000 I'd be surprised. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.280 I knew Arthur Lee Allen in school. He was half 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.600 a grade behind me, but we knew each other. And 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.120 then later on he would come in his shop once 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.400 in a while. He worked on his car, so he 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.520 did blocksmith's work. We made things like gates, railings, and 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.800 we'd weld something up for him. Lee Allen at a 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.200 time worked at Ace Hardware, down half a dozen blocks 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.200 in the shop on Tennessee Street. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.080 Eventually, Mark and Carl started interviewing each other, and Mark 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:51.840 had a lot of questions for his dad. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.360 What about then he had the rear end done though. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.040 Oh yeah, well he was one instant. He had the 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.760 you know whatever ranz on the car and the old cars, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.560 they they're pretty heavy, and so we did some work 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.760 on it. He came and picked it up and and 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.720 he just grabbed it and put it up over his 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.240 head and walked out. And one of the guys kind 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:13.680 of shook. He said, what the heck? 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:13.960 You know? 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.240 But I don't think it was that so much that 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.480 he was so strong. It was just odd that he 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.200 did it that way. But most guys wouldn't do that. 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.760 But he was pretty strong guy. He came in one 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.440 time and and said, hey, I have this letter. He 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.560 just said that he was no longer a suspect in 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:33.640 the Zodiac case. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.960 I was thinking about this earlier. So like when he 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.840 came in with the with the letter. Was he just saying, 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.800 here's the letter, I'm exonerary. It was like, Carl'll trust me, man, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.960 this isn't me. I mean, I'm wondering how if he 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.880 was emphatic at all or just about no. 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.800 He he was just I wouldn't say blase, but he 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.880 just came in. I said, hey, I got you something 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.160 to show or whatever he said. And then here's a 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.800 letter from the Sonoma County Sheriff that says that I'm 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.360 not a suspect. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:06.800 Or any more. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.800 Yeah, whatever the wording was, that I'm not a suspect anymore. 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.720 Because I think you also told me once that he 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.160 needed that letter because he kind of couldn't get a job. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.560 He had to have that letter so he could go 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:18.159 apply for a. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.480 H He didn't have to show the letter, but he 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.240 did if it ever came up and said, hey, look, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.959 I think a lot of people were a little bit 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.560 leery of him probably after that. As far as I know, 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.040 he did not have a girlfriend, never mentioned it, and 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.359 never seen him with one. He was kind of a 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.800 loner in that respect. I don't want to describe him 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.040 as a loaner, but I don't know. But he did 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.840 have friends, I guess. I never really seen him with anybody. 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:47.800 It was always by himself. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:50.840 But let me just I'm curious, so, like, if you 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.280 saw his name in the paper or saw his name 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.440 in the news, what did you think, Like, Hey, that's 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:57.600 my friend, did. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:02.000 You Yeah, we weren't qualified, We weren't Yeah, buddies. I 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.000 knew him from school and a little bit after school 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.359 and were yeah, we were friendly one good time And 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:08.920 did you. 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.520 Ever think he did it? 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.480 It ran through my mind, of course, yeah, yeah. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.520 It was just weird to think that I knew the 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.720 guy as a kid. I knew my dad knew him. 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:21.800 It's one of those things that I would love to 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.960 know what the real answer is. I would love to 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.720 know if it was him. I've seen other suspects name, 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.400 but obviously the only one that is in my head 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.160 is Lee Allen. I certainly believe he could have been. 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.399 I mean again, I didn't know him like my dad, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.280 but just all the stuff I've read and seen about him, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.880 it seems plausible. I'd say that it certainly seems plausible 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:55.879 that he could have been the guy. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.960 In December of nineteen ninety, another individual from Arthur Lee 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.440 Allen's past, another person who he had a falling out with, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.560 came forward and claimed that shortly before the Zodiac murdered 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.320 cab driver Paul Stein, Arthur Lee Allen had professed his 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.720 desire to kill a cab driver and claimed that he 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:29.040 was the Zodiac. This was Ralph Spinelli, who was a 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.960 career criminal. He had been arrested for several charges. Of 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.320 armed robbery and was probably facing the rest of his 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.359 life in prison, and he approached authorities asking to make 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.679 a deal. He didn't want to go to prison. In 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.040 an exchange, he would name Alan as the Zodiac. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.880 By the time Spinelli came forward, the Gray Smith book 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.320 had been out for years. Allan's involvement in the Zodiac 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.119 case was now public, and with this new testimony pointing 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.800 in Allan, investigators once again took him seriously as a suspect. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.639 The Valeo Police Department relaunched their investigation of Arthur Lee Allen. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:14.920 In nineteen ninety one. The Valeo Police Department consulted the FBI, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.040 and a profiler told them that if Allan was indeed 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.040 the Zodiac, it was likely he still had some trophies 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:25.600 or belongings from the victims and the crimes. They got 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.000 another search warrant for his home, and the news broke 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:30.600 into media. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.840 Here's a partial list of what police found in Allen's 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:41.359 home in nineteen ninety one. Four pipe bombs, a Ruger 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:46.920 twenty two caliber revolver, a Zodiac brand watch, news clippings 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:52.080 about the Zodiac case, a large hunting knife, a small flashlight, 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:57.520 a royal manual typewriter. This typewriter had an important connection. 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.200 The letter's claiming responsibility for the murder of Sherry Joe 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.720 Bates were made by a Royal model typewriter. There were 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:09.479 some things the police were able to determine at this point. 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.639 Alan's shoe size matched the Zodiac's bootprint from Lake Barriessa. 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.480 Both used large knives, and both used the same guns 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.600 and the same type of ammunition. Alan's home was searched 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.960 several more times after this, and they found even more 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:30.560 suspicious objects, but they never found anything that directly linked 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:35.720 him to the Zodiac murders. For the third time, Arthur 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.840 Lee Allen was exonerated, at least officially. 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.879 Well, good cops have instincts, and when Toski talked to Alan, 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.440 he creeped him out, you know, he thought he had 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.960 a live one that counts for a lot in an investigation. 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.919 This is San Francisco Chronicle journalist Kevin Fagan. He's the 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.719 current reporter signed to the Zodiac case. As part of 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.720 that role, he's talked with all the lead investigators and 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.200 journalists involved in the story, and he knows more about 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.800 the prime suspect than just about anybody else. We went 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:17.840 to Kevin Fagan to understand what investigators finally concluded about Alan. 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.800 Everyone who went to that house came away feeling, wow, 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:27.639 this might well be the guy. He was a little 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:32.760 shaky in his denials that he was the Zodiac. He 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:34.240 was eager to talk a lot. 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.879 This is the Vallejo man many investigators considered to be 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.120 the notorious Zodiac Killer, and this is the first time 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.480 his picture has been revealed. His name is Arthur Lee Allen. 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.080 Are you the Zodiac Killer? There would be nothing farther 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:52.960 from my mind. 0:22:54.520 --> 0:23:00.320 No, I'm certainly, most certainly not the Zodiac Killer. 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:03.800 He just came off like a possible guy. He get 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.400 a tingle and that's what I heard from everyone who 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:10.560 talked to him back in the day. Allen has been 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.760 the only one named directly as a suspect by any 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:20.560 of the investigators, and he cropped up through Dave Toski, 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:24.000 who was the main homicide inspector in San Francisco who 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.879 was working the case actively during the height of the 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:33.880 Zodiac craze. He kept going back to Alan year after 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.919 year after year. But he's been the guy for a 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:38.000 lot of investigators. 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.280 There's so many lies I caught him man his denying 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:43.040 things didn't have any relevance anymore. 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.080 That was the LAOPD Captain Roy Conway talking about Alan. 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.880 The LAYOPD Detective George Bauert also spoke about Allan's guilt. 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.160 I feel that there are so many areas that point 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.879 directly at Arthur Lee Allen that I feel that he 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:01.200 is a viable suspect in all probability of the Zodiac. 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.560 Alan had a lot of aspects that tied him to 0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:09.119 the crimes. He owned boots identical to those worn by 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.480 the Zodiac. According to the Prince taking it the scenes. 0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:15.679 His favorite short story was The Most Dangerous Game and 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.760 the Zodiac. In one of his letters, talked about how 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:23.560 he loved to hunt humans because they're the most dangerous game. 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.720 It wasn't that obscure a story at the time, but 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:33.240 it wasn't on everyone's mind. The fact that Alan mentioned that, 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:36.160 and the fact that that got mentioned in the letter 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.119 raises your eyebrows pretty high. He was picked out in 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.760 a photo lineup by one of the victims, and he 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.359 wore a watch that had Zodiac crosshairs on it. A 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.160 lot of things matched. He looked like the. 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:53.600 Sketch and remember, investigators also had the testimony of Don Cheney, 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:55.120 an old friend of Alan's. 0:24:55.600 --> 0:25:00.760 Yeah, Cheney had conversations with Alan that disturbed him. He 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:06.480 thought Allan was making statements that fingered himself as the Zodiac. 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.240