WEBVTT - Abortion Clinic Escorting 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.400 Welcome to it could happen here. It's the show with 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:09.920 things fall apart and we put them back together again. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.600 And there may may not be enormously about lawnmowers in 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.000 the background. Yeah, this is this is This is a 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:20.400 podcast also about abolishing lawns, although I guess I guess 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.040 not today it's only about abolishing lawns because I'm extume 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.080 we know it about neighbors. But we can we can 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.120 do an anti line episode in the near fu Yeah, 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.480 one day, one day, but but it is on on. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:34.199 On a more serious note, is I have Garrison with me, 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.080 and I have Tanya with me, who is an abortion 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.239 clinic escort and has been doing this for a very 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.280 very long time. Tanya, thank you for joining us, Thank 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.600 you for having me. Yeah, I'm I'm really excited to 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.440 talk with you about this because, um, this is well, 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.440 this is something we've been wanting to do for a 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.480 while because I think not enough people know what this is. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.520 So I guess I guess the first thing is is, yeah, 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.760 can you explain to people who are familiar with this 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:05.800 what clinic escorting is? Absolutely so. There are a number 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.880 of volunteer clinic escorts across the country, and many are 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:17.080 they're they're not necessarily organized nationwide, but many metro areas 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.280 do have organizations where you can volunteer to be a 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.880 clinic escort. And what that means is that you are 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:30.000 essentially someone who goes to a clinic that performs abortion services, 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:35.080 and you stand outside that clinic and you help the 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.840 patients get into the clinic, uh hopefully free of harassment 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:48.320 from protesters outside, and just ensure that protesters don't block 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:53.640 access to the clinic and that the patients are able 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.880 to get inside, you know, know where they're going and 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:01.280 get insanely Yeah, and that seems like it seems like 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.760 a really hard job in a couple of ways, but 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:06.600 both of the sense that like there's a bunch of 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:12.480 extremely angry and very weird people with really disturbing signs 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:18.440 and very sincerely held beliefs on in a different uh 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:24.520 side where they they do want to stop people from 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.160 going and convince them not to go in. Um, you know. 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.880 And it is interesting as as a clinic escort, you know, 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:36.320 you're you're really you don't have an opinion, Like I 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.080 don't have an opinion on whether someone goes in, someone 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.960 can go in, someone cannot go in. It's not you 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.880 know where the people who do the clinic escorting are 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:49.800 there because we believe that women and their partners should 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.600 have a choice about what to do. And so if 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.160 a woman chooses that she doesn't want to go into 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.800 the clinic, you know, that's fine by me. I'm just 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:00.960 there to ensure that she has the choice to go 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.640 into the clinic um and and get whatever services she needs, 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:11.440 whether it's uh, whether it's crenatal care or contraception or 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:17.520 abortion services. So um, it's it's fascinating because yeah, there 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.440 are a lot of people. You know, the protesters on 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.880 the other side can really run the gamuts. Some of them, um, 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:30.920 are very angry and have very interesting signs, but some 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.880 of them, you know, you they also range to those 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.640 who are just standing there saying the Rosary, walking up 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:43.880 and down, and the carrying crucifixes. And you know, if 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.560 it was just people saying the Rosary and then going 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.760 coming saying the Rosary and going, I probably wouldn't do 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.160 what I do because that's neither here nor there from me. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.280 It's the people who are you know, they will try 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.240 to get in the window of a car when and 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.560 a car pulls up if if they happen to have 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.560 the windows down and uh, you know, get in the 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.560 like put their heads in the car to try to 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.000 talk to the people or hand them literature. Um. And 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.440 I've seen some of the literature that you know, people 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.479 have shared with us after it's been given to them, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.640 you know, and it's a lot of it is full 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:26.000 of misinformation. Um and and kind of also you know, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:32.000 as someone who was raised Catholic. Uh and and it's 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.599 coming from people many many of the people who are 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:41.240 protesting are Catholic. It's very emotionally manipulative and not actual 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.680 information on some of them. I remember seeing one once 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.440 around Christmas time that was like a whole cartoon about 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.880 how excited Mary was to be Jesus mom and uh 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.080 and and how therefore that means that you should not 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.320 have your pregnancy terminated because you should be more like 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:07.200 Mary and be excited to Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, pretty fascinated. Yeah. 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.520 And I guess that's another thing that that I was 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:14.279 wondering about to what extent, Like, so obviously there's a 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.719 physical component of this, right is okay, trying to make 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.880 sure that people aren't physically interfering, um. How much of 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.599 it also is sort of like providing emotional support to 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.200 the to the people you're with, sure, because it's really 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.760 stressful it can be. I mean, the clinic where I'm 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.920 an escort is is uh has a little bit of 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:43.120 a perimeter where uh there's there's a parking lot and 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.680 between the people where they can actually protest out on 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:52.200 the sidewalk which is public property obviously and the actual 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.920 entrance to the clinic. Um. But there are people who 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.240 come in off a public transport to and not necessarily 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.920 aren't necessarily coming in a car where they can get 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.880 sort of beyond where the protesters are um to the clinic. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.120 And so I actually have a vivid memory. I've been 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.120 doing this for sixteen years, and I have a vivid 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.719 memory of a woman who came off the bus. She 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:17.760 got down off the bus at the bus stop like 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.920 and the protesters really got up in her face. And 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.120 one of them in particular was a guy who is 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.000 I'm not a small person, I'm about five ten and 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.280 and and pretty decent size, but he's definitely over six 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.440 ft tall and he was just like looming over her 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.640 and I had to physically insert myself in between her 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.440 and him and say, hey, you want to go to 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.440 the clinic, this is how you get there. You don't 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.120 have to listen to these people. If you want to 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.440 talk to them, you can, but you know you don't 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.680 have to, and you know, and and really, you know, 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.680 they're in such a fragile moment, most of them. Interestingly, 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.880 that that particular individual come to find out, wasn't even 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.360 coming for termination services. She was coming to get an ultrasound. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.800 She was having twins, and it was the lowest cost 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.040 place that she could go to actually find an ultrasound 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.680 to make sure that her twins were okay, um and so. 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.440 And she even came out afterwards with the ultrasound and 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.280 like shoved it in the guy's face and was like, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.480 you know, you know, go take a flying leap, but 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.400 um so, but yeah, I mean, part of it is 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:36.080 just showing that there are people who believe that you 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:38.200 have the right to make the choice you're making and 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.640 that we're not judging you. We're not here. You know. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.000 I think a lot of women in the position of 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.920 who feel that the need to terminate a pregnancy, they 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.440 feel very judged. It's it's it's society is very judgments 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.080 Bault and I think you know, being there, we have 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.200 so many people who come up to us, UM just 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.000 say hey, thanks for being just thanks for being right. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.200 It's it's just helpful to know that someone is here, uh, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.400 and and and and believes that I have the right 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.480 to make this decision and that I'm the best person 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.640 to make this decision about me and my body and 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:21.720 my family. UM is really it's it makes it that much, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:23.920 It makes it better. And and people will come up 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.120 and tell the most personal stories as well. We've had 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.440 someone who came up to me once and said, hey, no, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:37.800 ten years ago, my wife was pregnant UM and we 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.240 had been trying for so long to have a baby, 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.240 and we found out that there was this massive, you know, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:51.640 genetic defect that was not really compatible with life. And 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.520 we had we had we faced the tough decision about 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:59.120 do we go ahead and terminate this pregnancy and and 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.560 try to start again and how it and and and 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.319 get bring it again, or do we carry this to 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:08.120 term knowing that this child isn't going to live UM 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.199 for very long. And that individual um you know, and 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.240 his wife and decided to terminate the existing pregnancy, knowing 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.559 that the baby wasn't going to live. And he said, 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:25.600 and when we went to actually have the abortion, we 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.479 had to run the gauntlet of all of those people outside, 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.600 all those people like this telling us how we were 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.360 killing our baby. Um, I wanted baby. You know that 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.760 we were killing our child and we were murderers and 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:40.760 all of that. And so he was just like, just 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.120 thank you for being here, thank you for being here 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.120 and showing because you don't know what what's going on 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.199 in the lives of all of these people who are 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.000 coming in here, and they don't know all what's going on. 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.160 And so and he said, I really wish we had 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.360 had someone like you know, you standing here to let 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.960 us know that it was okay, you know, at the 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:07.840 in that moment of time to do this. So, yeah, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.840 it's it's interesting people will tell very very personal stories. 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.960 The next thing I was wondering is about how how 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.240 this has changed over time. I mean, yeah, you've you've 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.319 been in this for like longer than I've been, like 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:40.840 very seriously a conscious person. So yeah, So so I'm 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.000 wondering what has it been like, how how has this 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.440 changed over the past sort of like a decade and 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:53.160 a half, And has there been a change like very 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.000 very recently, as in in in the sort of like 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.280 as as row looks like it's dying, and what do 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.160 you think that's going to mean going forward for this? Yeah, 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:10.319 so yes, it has changed over time. Um, and and 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.719 yes it has changed very recently as well. Um what 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.200 I what I can say. You know, when I first 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.000 started doing this, it was really just kind of you know, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.720 the same hand and and it still is the same 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.320 handful of usual suspects who show up at least at 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:31.080 the clinic I escort at um. But it was really 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:35.000 it was it was a small handful and uh, it 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.199 was the same people every week, week week, week after 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.440 week after week. And um, you know on the clinic 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.520 sport side, you know, we're volunteers, so you know, we 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.480 need people to come and be sort of energized, and 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.200 so you know, we have a cadre of people who 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.240 have been doing it. Yes, I've been doing it for 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.040 sixteen years, but there's a woman that I I askeport with. 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:56.920 There are several women that I a skeport with who've 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:01.920 been doing it decades longer than I, right, And yeah, 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:08.200 I mean really amazing, really amazing women and who probably 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.720 have even more interesting stories than I do. But you know, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.240 in the you know, and we would see after after 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.760 something happened, like when m George Tiller was murdered, we 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.000 had an influx of volunteers who came people who were 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.480 angry and said, you know, I was so upset and 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.880 I realized I needed to do something about it. UM. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.000 So periodically there have been you know, obviously, you know, 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.400 the murder of George Schiller was a tragedy, but we've 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.439 had things like that that have energized people and brought 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:48.520 them in two actually doing a clinic escorting UM and 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.040 there's been a little bit of a pickup recently in 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.920 the number of escorts, but it's nothing like the pickup 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.520 that I think I've seen in terms of antis and 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:05.880 to custerers. And it's you know, and it's important because 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.080 you know, if you really believe that people should have 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.600 the right to bodily autonomy and the right to make 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:18.360 this choice UM, that that requires people to actually make 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.360 it happen for them, and there are a lot of 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.280 people trying to make it not happen. And I actually 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.560 I was actually sporting UM because the clinic esports. Uh 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.000 they you know, we actually change off we have a schedule. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.200 We don't all go every week at least with the 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.600 clinic where I am, because you know, we also want 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.800 to have our own lives and not just be standing 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.280 at this clinic every every weekend. Um. But I was 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:50.080 esporting the weekend after Ruth bader Ginsburg died and I 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.560 was standing by myself kind of it went end well, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.800 another person went and just I think picked up a 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.400 sign or took a bathroom right or something, and one 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:06.600 of the newer anties um stood across from me and 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.480 yelled at me that Ruth bader Ginsburg was was burning 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.800 in hell now and that if I didn't repent, you know, 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.559 that the same thing would happen to me, and that 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.920 that's just God's plan that you know, people who believe 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.240 in in killing babies, uh, just are going to rotten 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.200 hell for eternity. And and so that was an interesting 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.760 you know, and it was the first time. Most of 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.640 the time they don't really try to engage us in conversation, 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.600 but it was the first time someone was really just 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:45.480 saying super super like sort of inflammatory stuff to me 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.720 as an personally, as an escort. We certainly had heard, 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.960 you know, they'll they'll say things to patients where they say, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.880 you know, I don't go in there, it's not safe, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.480 you're good mom to your baby, and that kind of stuff, 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.680 which is a so you know, obviously incredibly originality to 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.920 women going through uh, you know what they're going through 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.760 when they feel that they have no better choice than 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:16.680 determinate pregnancy. UM. But uh, yeah, the actual sort of 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:21.080 the vitriol towards towards the escorts is a little is 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.760 increasing UM and I would say around the time Ruth 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.080 Bader Ginsburg died, we also have seen an enormous uptick 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:33.400 in the number of protesters outside the clinic um each 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.480 each week, as well as the length of time that 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.760 they will stay. UM. They they've actually about doubled the 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.960 length of time but they should stay UM. And so 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:48.880 you know, it's it's been a challenge. It's been a 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.080 challenge for us on the escorting side to actually cover 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.560 the ships because you know, we are again we're all 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.320 volunteers who have lives and want to live our lives. 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:06.760 You know, we're women who are mothers, grandmothers, men who 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.520 are you know, father's, grandfathers, who just you know, want 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.320 want to do something good and help out Um. And 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.200 you know, more and more at the time, we were 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.360 having to stay later, come earlier, stay later to ensure 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.240 that there's someone there, that there's a there's there's a 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:30.000 friendly or at least protective presence. Uh. For the women 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:34.840 coming into the have they gotten like, have they gotten 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:40.120 more violent? Um? You know, like I said, there's actually 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.600 so for us. It's where we are in kind of 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.160 the clinic where I work, are in kind of a 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.960 privileged position, so to speak. And that where they are stationed, 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:56.200 you know, out on the sidewalk is uh is far 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:01.520 enough away. Um, you know, across a parking lot from 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.320 from the clinic that you know that the physical altered 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:10.080 you know, interactions are are relatively rare. Um. I'm sure 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.879 you know that that wouldn't really be better A question 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.679 better place to a clinic escort who's on a clinic 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.960 at a clinic where you know, the entrance to the 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.879 clinic is right on a public sidewalk, right where I 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:29.080 think you know, they definitely do have significantly more physical interactions. UM. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.600 I guess it's hard to say. It depends on how 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:38.920 you define that. Is it there from a long time 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.320 the one of the signs outside the clinic was a 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:49.920 photo of of the doctor who provided the termination services. UM, 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.280 a photo of him and his name, and it said 0:17:53.359 --> 0:18:00.840 retire this person you know his name and the retire 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:05.360 abortionist and then his name. UM. And that that showed up, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.960 I think, as I vaguely recall around the time George 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.159 Schiller was was murdered. UM, So what does that mean? Right? 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:19.320 So that's that's violent in and of itself. It's it's 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:24.560 a suggestion there of UM. You know, I won't pretend 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.560 that it's not you know, it doesn't sometimes go through 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.560 my head like you know, because there are clinic esports 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.439 who have been murdered. Um. And and so it doesn't. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.879 It sometimes does go through my head, especially like you know, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.560 certain times of year when we're bundled up and it's 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.680 called Um, you know, someone could come up behind me 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.399 and I you know, wouldn't necessarily always hear them or 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:53.919 see them. Um. And so it is. It's you know, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:59.520 there's definitely always an undercurrent in a feeling of you know, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.040 something would escalate. We're fortunate at my clinic that it 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.000 it hasn't too much recently, but we you know, I 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.359 would say, you know, again, as Rose dying you know, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.719 they're getting more bold. Um. They're not supposed to trespass, 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:18.120 they're not supposed to come on into the parking lot. Um. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.520 And yet there are some who are really trying to 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.760 test that boundary now, who will go to their car 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.480 not in the clinic parking lot, and then as they leave, 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.240 drive into the parking lot and around the by the clinic, 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:40.480 just to sort of um, intimidate people and and and 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.000 to can make the escorts concerned because obviously, you know, 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.240 when we're on foot, it's very hard to get physically 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.800 between them and something when they're when they're driving, um. 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.439 And so yeah, it's it's there's definitely an escalation in 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:02.800 that front, and and an escalation in in the rhetoric. Um. 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.080 You know, there are more, I would say, kind of 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:12.359 pointed signs, uh that that are used to try to 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.679 intimidate the women into not going into the clinic. There 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.000 was actually there's a sign that had been used for 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.080 it actually has been used for a little bit longer, 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:26.280 but it basically it had the names of two women who, 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:31.760 according to the antis uh had died under the care 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.800 of the services of the doctor at our clinic, which 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.520 in the end, when I actually did my own research. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.800 Wasn't true. One one just very unfortunately had an allergic 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.639 reaction to the anesthetic, which is not something you know 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.640 unless you've been under anesthesia, and uh the other and 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.520 and it wasn't and neither of them was actually the 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.359 provider at at our clinic who was performing the service 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.840 at the time. Uh, those those individuals died, but it said, 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.520 you know, dead, and it had these two women's names, 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:11.720 um and a hundred and fifty thousand babies and um, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:15.240 which is a little bit inflammatory. And then it's and 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.560 also misleading when you think about it, because you know, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.200 the maternal mortality rate in the United States is like 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.960 over twenty three women per hundred thousands. So I was like, well, 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.040 even if this is accurate, even if this sign was accurate, 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.320 which it's not. You know, two women out of a 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.920 hundred and fifty thousand, that's way safer than actually for 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:41.840 pregnancy UM. And you know, so it's those kinds of things. 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.480 It's it's the mind games. And you know, as someone 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.080 who uh you know has seen this for while, like 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.359 you know, to me, the mind game is part of 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.520 the violence, even though it's not physical, it's it's really 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:03.040 you know, trying to to make people feel ashamed and 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.680 feel that they shouldn't come out. And I think that 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:11.359 you know, as as we're looking at Robe possibly being overturned, 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.320 you know, you're suddenly seeing all of these people coming 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:19.159 out of the woodwork. Because you know, so many women 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.440 in this country actually do abort a pregnancy at some 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:28.400 point in time, do terminate a pregnancy, and yet it's 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.520 not something anyone talks about because it's it's still because 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.760 of the dialogue in this country and because of the 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.399 way it is portrayed. It is something that most people, 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.000 you know, I don't want to be public about, not 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:49.800 just because of the politics of it, but because you know, 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.680 there are people who are made to feel ashamed and 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.320 as opposed to you know this, This was the right 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.160 choice for me at this point in time. Um. And 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:07.480 maybe under different circumstances it might have been a different choice. UM. 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:11.200 But yeah. So I think it's hard to say whether 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:17.200 violence has increased, um, because it's always had that undercurrent. 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.680 I mean ever since I've been starting, ever since I 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:33.320 started doing One of the things that we've talked to 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:35.000 a few other people, we talked to someone who was 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:39.960 doing security for the start of security plans for clinics, 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:41.639 And one of the things they were talking about was 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.480 like a shift in the kinds of people who were 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.120 getting involved in these clinics. And I'm wondering, in these 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.080 clinic protests, like I wonder, have have you have you 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.240 seen like I don't know, they were talking about, like 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.960 there's been some specifically fascist groups getting involved, And I 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.320 was wondering if like the kinds of people who've you've 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:02.840 seen have been like that, or like, you know, in 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:04.359 terms of the new people who are getting involved, are 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:08.240 they closer to like the kinds of people you usually 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:12.480 see see outside these clinics. So that's actually an interesting 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:16.200 point that I hadn't I hadn't thought too much about. 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:21.880 But I think you know, the previously, you know, when 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.520 I first started doing this, it tended to be kind 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:30.800 of your older Catholic uh, folks who are you know, 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.000 coming and saying the Rosary, you know, uh, standing there 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:38.280 with the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary like in 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:43.800 front of the clinic and um, and and you know, 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.800 some could be pushy, UM. But I think it is 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:54.720 accurate to say there is actually a younger element of 0:24:55.359 --> 0:25:00.320 anti abortion protester or anti choice really because the end 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:06.720 it's really about the choice, not and and so I think, yes, 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:10.480 I'm seeing younger and younger people. And it's interesting that 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.680 you mentioned that because a lot of them are men. Uh, 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:19.240 they're young, almost almost entirely white. There is a few 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:25.320 a handful of people of color, but um, they they 0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:29.840 tend to come very very rarely. Um. And you know, 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:36.000 the it's interesting, So it was largely older white men 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:40.600 and women previously, and now I would say there are 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:46.080 many more younger men getting involved, a few women. But 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:50.400 when for most of the young and when I say young, 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.760 I would say, you know, well, well for the for 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:56.280 the clinic i'm at, I would say anyone under probably 0:25:56.280 --> 0:26:00.919 the age of forty. But you also, um, you know, 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:03.639 really when when you know, even under the age of 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:07.760 thirty or five, it's with the exception of one, it's 0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:15.080 meant it is it is white men. Um. And uh, yeah, 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:19.160 so that's that's interesting. I hadn't It's quite possible. Um, 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:23.280 certainly there are some that but you know, we as 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:27.160 clinic escorts are not actually engaging these individuals and conversation. 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:29.960 That's not something that you know. In fact, we have 0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:32.720 to sign pledges that were, you know, at least for 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:35.480 the for the organization that we volunteer with, that we're 0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:38.120 not going to engage in conversation with them. That we're not, 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:41.840