WEBVTT - The Domino Effect of the ‘Donroe Doctrine’

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>On January tewod, Nicolas Maduro met with Chinese officials in Caracas.

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<v Speaker 1>Sibil Mbiado President in pin Paramerica latinbe.

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<v Speaker 2>There's video of that meeting on Maduro's Instagram account. The

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<v Speaker 2>narrator touts Chinese investment in Venezuela in energy and technology

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<v Speaker 2>and infrastructure, and praises the relationship between the two nations.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeahiva Venezuela, you know Nidas.

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<v Speaker 2>Hours later, Maduro was captured by US special forces.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that was very unfortunate, tell me for the Chinese government.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no question in my mind that the Chinese, in

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<v Speaker 1>a way where humiliated.

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<v Speaker 2>Nicholas Burns was a US diplomat for decades under Republican

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<v Speaker 2>and Democratic presidents, including Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and

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<v Speaker 2>Barack Obama. Most recently, he was the US Ambassador to

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<v Speaker 2>China under President Biden. China and Venezuela have had what

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<v Speaker 2>the Chinese call an all weather strategic partnership, a very

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<v Speaker 2>close relationship. China promised to stand by Venezuela through thick

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<v Speaker 2>and thin, Burns explains, through any crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>But when that crisis came, Chinese could have just send

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<v Speaker 1>Nicholas Maduro. So I think, frankly, this has been a

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<v Speaker 1>loss of face since, been a loss of influence for China,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly in Venezuela. And I have to imagine that some

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<v Speaker 1>countries in Latin America will begin to question whether an

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<v Speaker 1>all encompassing embrace of China, and some of them have

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<v Speaker 1>made that is really in their long term interest.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm David Gera, and this is the big take from

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg News today, A conversation with Ambassador Nicholas Burns, now

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<v Speaker 2>a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School, about how Beijing

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<v Speaker 2>will respond to the US incursion into Venezuela, how it

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<v Speaker 2>could change China's approach to Taiwan, and how the so

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<v Speaker 2>called don Roe doctrine, President Trump's focus on the Western

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<v Speaker 2>Hemisphere could hand China an edge on the world stage.

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<v Speaker 2>When I sat down with Ambassador Nicholas Burns this week,

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<v Speaker 2>he brought up an article he read in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four as he made his way to what ended up

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<v Speaker 2>being the last summit meeting between President Biden and President.

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<v Speaker 1>She an extraordinary front page story which essentially said that

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and two, the United States was a

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<v Speaker 1>leading trade partner of every country in South America, but

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<v Speaker 1>by twenty twenty four, the People's Repubma fifth China was

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<v Speaker 1>the leading trade partner of every country in South America,

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<v Speaker 1>with the exception at that time of Columbia.

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<v Speaker 2>It illustrated vividly, Burns says, the extraordinary commitment China has

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<v Speaker 2>made to compete for influence in Latin America, and Venezuela

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<v Speaker 2>has been a key part of that. Over nearly two decades,

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<v Speaker 2>China has loaned the country tens of billions of dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>and Venezuela has paid interest on those loans with oil.

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<v Speaker 2>I asked Ambassador Burns about how China responded to the

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<v Speaker 2>capture of Nicholas Maduro and to the Trump administration's assertion

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to control the flow of oil from Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 2>How do its policy priorities in South America change as

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<v Speaker 2>a result of what happened to Maduro.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that Chinese are going to compete. They're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to leave the field in a new Monroe doctrine just

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<v Speaker 1>because the United States has said move out of Latin America.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually have a lot of sympathy for the view

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<v Speaker 1>that we should push back against the more competitive Chinese

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<v Speaker 1>actions against the United States, certainly in Latin America for instance.

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<v Speaker 1>The Trump administration has been right to say in the

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<v Speaker 1>Penwa Canal that at Chinese state company shouldn't control the

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<v Speaker 1>infed forts. That just makes sense from an American national

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<v Speaker 1>security standpoint. But they will compete. China is a major

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<v Speaker 1>creditor to Venezuela, and if part of the solution to

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<v Speaker 1>try to stabilize Venezuela in the next six to twelve

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<v Speaker 1>months turns out to be a big debt negotiation, China

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<v Speaker 1>will demand a seat at the table. They'll also look

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<v Speaker 1>for fishers in the US relationship with Venezuela and try

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<v Speaker 1>to exploit them. You know, very cynically. China was a

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<v Speaker 1>major supporter of this brutal regime, the Maduro regime. Many

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<v Speaker 1>of the people who ran that machine are still in place,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I think they'll look to see if they

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<v Speaker 1>can divide the United States from that regime. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think they're going to quit. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>all part of this global competition that's been underway for

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<v Speaker 1>many years now between the US and China.

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<v Speaker 2>So much of President Trump's focus has been on and

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<v Speaker 2>continues to be on Venezuela's oil. You were talking about

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<v Speaker 2>the debt that Venezuela is into China and there was

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<v Speaker 2>this oil for Day program that was in place. How

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<v Speaker 2>critical is that oil to China today.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's more symbolically important than it is in

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<v Speaker 1>real terms. Chinese imports of Venezuelan oil represent about four

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<v Speaker 1>percent of China's total imports around the world, so it's

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<v Speaker 1>not that strategically important, but I think it's politically important

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<v Speaker 1>for them that they not be shut out of that market,

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<v Speaker 1>which certainly China's very interested in developing the entire South

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<v Speaker 1>American market. If you think of Brazil, for instance, where

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<v Speaker 1>China has made extraordinary inroads with Chinese electric vehicles, with

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese purchases of Brazilian soybeans, and so I think you'll

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<v Speaker 1>see the Chinese ramp up their state enterprise investment in

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<v Speaker 1>many different parts of South America, and it's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be interesting to watch to see if they can be successful.

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<v Speaker 2>As you mentioned, China likely ones has seen at the

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<v Speaker 2>table as all of this unfolds. A spokesperson for the

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<v Speaker 2>Chinese Foreign Ministry set at a press conference the Lawful

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<v Speaker 2>Rights and interests of China in Venezuela must be protected.

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<v Speaker 2>How big a concern is that to the Chinese that

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<v Speaker 2>they could lose access to what they help build? Where

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<v Speaker 2>does that leave China in trying to plot a path forward?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think they're two Chinese concerns here, and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't have sympathy for either of them. Onely is again

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<v Speaker 1>they don't want to see a dramatic decline in their

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<v Speaker 1>trade and investment activities in South America, I was even

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<v Speaker 1>Latin America, because they see it as such a major market,

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<v Speaker 1>both in importing critical food stuff but also in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of making inroads for their most competitive industries. But secondly,

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<v Speaker 1>this may turn out to help the United States and

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<v Speaker 1>help Scott best In, for instance, in his trade, tariff

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<v Speaker 1>and supply chain negotiations with the Chinese. There's the truth,

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<v Speaker 1>as you know, between the United States and China from

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<v Speaker 1>the extraordinary tariff and supply chain the wars of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five. But it's a very unstable truth. And so

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<v Speaker 1>if the United States suddenly, because of this intervention in Venezuela,

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<v Speaker 1>has a lock on the oil industry, that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>help perhaps the United States, as the Chinese the United

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<v Speaker 1>States try to one up each other, and certainly I

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<v Speaker 1>hope the United States can be successful. I'm not rooting

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<v Speaker 1>for China at all. Having served as ambassador, I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>how quick they are to deploy unfair trade practices against

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<v Speaker 1>our own companies, and I hope the administration can be successful,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly in the supply chain issue as well as on tariff.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned the role that China is playing across the continent.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you put into context of Venezuela's role in that, well.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's it was a function of both Russia,

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<v Speaker 1>China and other authoritarian countries coalescing just support an unlawful

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<v Speaker 1>regime in Caracas. Maduro stole the election of twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't a legitimate leader, and yet he had this support,

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<v Speaker 1>very overt political support from Jijinping and from Vladimir Putin.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think in this sense it's been a

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<v Speaker 1>loss of influence for all those authoritarians, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>very positive development. And that's what they've lost. There are

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<v Speaker 1>now and some of their other primary supporters, Cuba being

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<v Speaker 1>the most notable. Well, we saw what happened, and the

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<v Speaker 1>US Special forces out maneuvered completely the Cuban Craetorian guard

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<v Speaker 1>around Nicholas Maduro and thus throughout the President Trump has

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<v Speaker 1>made against you. But it has to be concentrating mines

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<v Speaker 1>in Havana. So I think the tables have been turned

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit here in the global competition, these very

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<v Speaker 1>self confident uoritarian powers and China, Russia, North Korea and Iran,

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<v Speaker 1>the tables have been turned against certainly the Iranians, certainly

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<v Speaker 1>the vath Whalens as part of this in the Western hemisphere.

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<v Speaker 1>And so you know, we're not going to know how

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<v Speaker 1>this all plays out until several years of history of past.

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<v Speaker 1>But this has been a dramatic diminution of Chinese influence

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<v Speaker 1>in the Western hemisphere.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I want to turn to what's being called the

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<v Speaker 2>don Roe doctrine.

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<v Speaker 1>They now call it the Dunro document. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's uh Monroe doctrine. We sort of forgot about it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was very important, but we forgot about it. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't forget about it anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Under name, President Trump making no bones about the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that he wants to focus on the Western hemisphere. How

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<v Speaker 2>does that change China's approach to foreign policy?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the Chinese now know that the game has been

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<v Speaker 1>changed that the United States under President Trump, it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be very aggressive and pushing back against aspects of

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese influence. That's what this new Chump corollary to the

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<v Speaker 1>Monroe doctrine that was announced in the National Security Strategy Report,

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<v Speaker 1>That's what that means. But I think that the administration

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<v Speaker 1>would be more effective if they stopped talking just about

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<v Speaker 1>oil and they started talking more about the real strength

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<v Speaker 1>of the United States. The President has talked almost solely

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<v Speaker 1>about the petroleum oil benefits to the United States. I

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<v Speaker 1>think most American presidents, if not all American presidents but

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<v Speaker 1>the last century, would have said, we want the hemisphere

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<v Speaker 1>to be governed by rule of law, societies by governments

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<v Speaker 1>that are elected by the people of the country. We

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<v Speaker 1>want human rights on her That's a glaring omission in

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<v Speaker 1>the policy of the Trump administration, and it's not going

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<v Speaker 1>to be attractive at leads to average people in Venezuela

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<v Speaker 1>or other parts of Central and South America if the

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<v Speaker 1>United States is seen to be saying we only care

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<v Speaker 1>about your resources.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up, how President Trump's incursion in Venezuela could influence

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<v Speaker 2>Presidents She and Putin and how it's shaping President Trump's

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<v Speaker 2>designs on Greenland. The US military blockade of Venezuela and

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<v Speaker 2>the apprehension of Nicholas Maduro has put other countries on edge.

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump has put Cuba on notice, and he suggested

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<v Speaker 2>the US could strike cartels in Mexico. And then there's Greenland.

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<v Speaker 2>When President Trump talks about Greenland, he often brings up China.

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<v Speaker 2>He's made unsupported claims that there are Chinese destroyers off Greenland.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's what he said when he met with oil

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<v Speaker 2>executives last week at the White House.

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<v Speaker 1>I get along very well with President she I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to go over to China in April, but I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want them as a neighbor in Greenland not going to

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<v Speaker 1>happen anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>To what degree are President Trump's designs on Greenland do

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<v Speaker 2>you think tied to China.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's hard to know because there are so many

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<v Speaker 1>different explanations being offered by the Trump administration about this

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<v Speaker 1>really problematic focus on Greenland. And I just say this,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no question that there is a longer term strategic

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<v Speaker 1>threat given the fact that the passageway between Asia and

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<v Speaker 1>the Atlantic is now navigable in the summer months, there

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<v Speaker 1>is more of a threat which took me from Russia.

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<v Speaker 1>Greenland is very strategic. We have to contain and toture Russia.

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<v Speaker 1>But the way to do that is to work through

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<v Speaker 1>the NATO alliance. There is an Arctic Council of the

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<v Speaker 1>eight Arctic countries. Russia is a member. The other seven

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<v Speaker 1>members are all members of NATO, including Denmark and Greenland

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<v Speaker 1>as part of the Danish Kingdom, and of course the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. So if the concern here is that there

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<v Speaker 1>is a threat from Russia, and if maybe the long

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<v Speaker 1>term strategic partner of China, the way to deal with

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<v Speaker 1>it is to have a united NATO and seven of

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<v Speaker 1>those nations, including the United States, working with Denmark and others,

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<v Speaker 1>and not attempting to buy or acquire by force Greenland

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<v Speaker 1>from a vaunted and very reliable NATO ally Denmark. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you think about this, I was ambassador to NATO

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<v Speaker 1>between two thousand and one and two thousand and five.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember very clearly what happened on nine to eleven

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<v Speaker 1>that afternoon in Brussels. As we looked at the Twin

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<v Speaker 1>Towers falling in New York, three thousand people dead. We

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<v Speaker 1>looked at the Anegon being attacked, and the Danish ambassador

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<v Speaker 1>called me and said they were with us, they would

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<v Speaker 1>defend us, they would invoke Article five of the NATO

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<v Speaker 1>Treaty an attack on one as an attack on all,

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<v Speaker 1>which we did. The next day. The Danes went into Afghanistan.

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<v Speaker 1>Suffer a higher level of casualties on the per capita basis.

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<v Speaker 1>They suffered the most of any of the troop contributing

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<v Speaker 1>nations in terms of the numbers of people of their

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<v Speaker 1>soldiers who were killed and were wounded. They really stood

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<v Speaker 1>with us, And now suddenly we have a situation and

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard to believe we've come to this point where

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<v Speaker 1>the leading member of NATO is threatening another NATO member

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<v Speaker 1>with military force that will break NATO. If the Trump

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<v Speaker 1>administration tries to use a military force to occupy Freeland,

0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>that will be the end of NATO. It will cause

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.079
<v Speaker 1>irreparably harm to the United States. It will be a

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.680
<v Speaker 1>shameful episode in our history. And I've got to believe

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 1>that the Trump administration is going to find a way

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.280
<v Speaker 1>to back down from this ludicrous claim that President Trump

0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 1>has made to Greenland itself.

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>The journalist Christopher Being wrote a piece for Bloomberg business

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Week recently, and he made what I think is a

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.360
<v Speaker 2>really interesting point about how this could backfire on the US.

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 2>He wrote, President Trump's norm busting incursion in Venezuela makes

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>China look like the adult in the room. This reinforces

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 2>the country's reputation in the region as a calm, predictable

0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>partner with whom one can do business. Do you agree

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 2>with that.

0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's what the Chinese are trying to insinuate, not

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 1>just insinuate. China is saying we are the defender of

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.920
<v Speaker 1>the international order that was established after the Second World War.

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.720
<v Speaker 1>We are the cautious and responsible party in the United

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 1>States is an agent of instability. That's a little bit

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>of softistry from the Chinese. The Chinese are threatening Taiwan

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 1>with military force as we speak. That Chinese have stolen

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>in the Scratlely and Parasol Islands of the South China

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>see territory from both Vietnam and the Philippines. That Chinese

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 1>are harassing Japan over Japanese control of the Sinkoku Islands

0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 1>in the East Chenesee. The Chinese have been contesting Indian

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 1>sovereignty on their border in the him in Malayas. So

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 1>it's like the plot calling the kettle black. You know,

0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.800
<v Speaker 1>there was a meeting several months ago that the South

0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 1>Africans hosted, and of course the Chinese were there, and

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>the South Africans and most of our major allies in

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.240
<v Speaker 1>the world, and the United States state away. If we

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>continue to act unilaterally, and if we continue to lecture

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 1>the European allies as if they're the problem of the

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 1>world and yet not be tough enough in our rhetoric

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>towards both China and Russia, I think that these authoritarian

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 1>regimes are going to make more in ropes in global

0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 1>public opinion about who's the agent of instability and who isn't.

0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 1>I would never call President Trump on isolation, as he's not.

0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 1>He's certainly an interventionist. But the United States, I think

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 1>is strongest when we're working with and through our allies,

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>our NATO allies like Denmark and Each Asia, our allies

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 1>like Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, our strategic partner India, Australia.

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 1>I really hope that Trump administration will get back to

0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 1>what has been so successful for every president since Truman

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 1>and Eisenhower, and that is the United States leads these

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 1>alliances that China and Russia do not have. That's our

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 1>strategic advantage over them. But if we drive them away,

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 1>then we weaken ourselves.

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 2>You mentioned Taiwan, and I'm curious how the US intervention

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.200
<v Speaker 2>in Venezuela might have changed President She's approach to Taiwan.

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.440
<v Speaker 2>The reporter David Sanger asked President Trump about this during

0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 2>an interview he and his colleagues at The New York

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Times conducted last week. Sanger asked, have you created a

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 2>president that you may come to regret later on?

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 1>No, because this was a real threat.

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>But Trump added, Taiwan is quote a source of pride

0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 2>for President She.

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 1>He considers it to be part of China, and that's

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.160
<v Speaker 1>up to him what he's going to be doing.

0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.840
<v Speaker 2>But you know, President Trump said, I've expressed to him

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.680
<v Speaker 2>that I would be very unhappy if he did that,

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 2>meaning invaded Taiwan.

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he'll do that. I hope he does.

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:14.880
<v Speaker 1>You don't think you've set a president?

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Do you think? To borrow David Sanger's question, President Trump

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 2>has created a president here he may come to regret

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 2>later on.

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 1>It is a slippery slow I don't think the Chinese

0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.639
<v Speaker 1>feel that the People's Liberation Army is ready to invade Taiwan,

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.400
<v Speaker 1>at least not ready to mount a cross straight invasion,

0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 1>a combined forces operation of naval vessels, of submarines, aircraft.

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.480
<v Speaker 1>It's extraordinarily difficult to do. And the Taiwanese, of course,

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.679
<v Speaker 1>have been watching the Ukrainians in the ways the Ukrainians

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.120
<v Speaker 1>have held off a much larger Russian army through drone warfare,

0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.320
<v Speaker 1>through intelligence operations, and so I think there's a doubt

0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 1>in the Chinese mind about it. But there's no question

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>that Chichinpin wants to bring Taiwan under the control directly

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 1>of the People's Republic of China, and should he attempt

0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.800
<v Speaker 1>to do that at some point in the future, he

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>may well use what the United States did in Venezuela

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 1>to justify, well, if the United States can invade a

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>sovereign member of the United Nations, that's the Chinese line.

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Of course, we have the right to take back what

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:27.200
<v Speaker 1>they believe incorrectly is a territory of the People's Republic

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.919
<v Speaker 1>of China. I think it also makes Putin's argument about

0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:35.239
<v Speaker 1>wanting to claim Ukrainian territory. At least you know, in

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.359
<v Speaker 1>the minds of some people, not you, not me, a

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.919
<v Speaker 1>more plausible explanation of what they're trying to do. So

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 1>we're giving them a tactical advantage and how they describe

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.439
<v Speaker 1>what their own strategies are in the case of China, Taiwan,

0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the case of Russia Ukraine, and that's very ill advised

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:55.040
<v Speaker 1>for the United States to be doing.

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Ambassador Burns, thank you very.

0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:58.919
<v Speaker 1>Much, David. Thank you always a pleasure.

0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.320
<v Speaker 2>This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerat.

0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.399
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0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.679
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0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.760
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