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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and today I'm

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Speaker 1: talking DIY or delegate the financial advisor conundrum with Pam Kruger. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so a financial advisor won't fix your money problems, but

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Speaker 1: many folks assume that by hiring a pro they're well

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Speaker 1: on their way to financial success. Maybe maybe not. That

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Speaker 1: depends on a bunch of different factors that we're going

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Speaker 1: to discuss today. And if you want to hire an

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Speaker 1: advisor but you're not sure where to start, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about that too. Pam Kruger is an investor advocate.

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Speaker 1: She co hosted money Track on PBS for many years.

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Speaker 1: She's also the founder of wealth ramp dot com, which

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Speaker 1: is a really big part of what we're gonna it's

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Speaker 1: going to enter into this conversation. She cares deeply about

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Speaker 1: helping individual investors make wise decisions. So, Pam, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining me today on the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Jil it's a pleasure.

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Speaker 3: So glad to have you here.

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Speaker 1: We connected last week and I just really enjoyed getting

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Speaker 1: to know you, and I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I have to have Pam on to talk about financial

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Speaker 1: advisors because this is one of those pitfalls that people

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Speaker 1: so often face. But before we get into that, I

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Speaker 1: want to know what you splore, John, your craft beer equivalent,

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Speaker 1: because that's something I'm spending money on fiercely even while

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to save and invest for my future. Is

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Speaker 1: what's your splurge.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying not to add to any weight around the

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Speaker 2: middle of the waste, so it's not going to be

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Speaker 2: the beer this time. But I'm telling you last weekend

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Speaker 2: I had a real tussle with myself because I want

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Speaker 2: to upgrade my bike and I'm going to I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about trading my bike in and then I came

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Speaker 2: home and I said, Pam, nine hundred dollars versus I'm

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Speaker 2: doing some work in the kitchen, and you know you

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Speaker 2: can't do it all.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I had to pull myself back from the brink.

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Speaker 1: But if you want someone to sign off to co

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Speaker 1: sign your expense on upgrading your bike, you've come to

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Speaker 1: the right place. Because I'm bike obsessed as well, so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get.

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Speaker 2: Some emotional support from you.

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Speaker 1: Then I say go for it. We're talking e bike,

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Speaker 1: were talking road bike, Like.

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Speaker 2: What are you looking a bike? It's a road bike.

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Speaker 2: It's just you. I love my bike, but I tested

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Speaker 2: over one this weekend and I fell in love. And

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Speaker 2: of course the owner of the bike shop was like, Pam,

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Speaker 2: such a deal I can give you if I trade

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Speaker 2: this in and do that and do this. I got

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Speaker 2: excited in the moment, but I did the smart thing, Joel.

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Speaker 2: I did the smart thing. I said, give myself a

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Speaker 2: cool off period. Yes, go home and think about it,

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Speaker 2: and if you feel that way by next weekend, go

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Speaker 2: for it. But if it starts to dwindle, maybe let

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Speaker 2: it go.

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Speaker 1: The waiting period is clutch. And my daughter realized that

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Speaker 1: recently talked about that on the show where she wanted

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Speaker 1: a vintage cabbage patch doll, and I love that. She

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Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm gonna sit on this overnight,

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Speaker 1: and then she ended up saying it's worth the money.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back and get it. But that sort

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Speaker 1: of patience is oh good. It's hard for most of

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Speaker 1: us to muster up. So I'm glad that you were

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Speaker 1: able to do that. Even if you ultimately end up

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Speaker 1: purchasing this bike, I think it'll be more fulfilling because

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Speaker 1: you waited and you decided. Now this is for real

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Speaker 1: what I want.

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Speaker 2: I agree, and I'm glad your daughter did the cool

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Speaker 2: off too. All it's mixed for a better decision, right,

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Speaker 2: She's a she's.

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Speaker 1: A smart cookie. I don't know where it comes from. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you, Pam, you are. You're incredibly knowledgeable on the

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Speaker 1: money in investing front. You've been in this space for

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Speaker 1: a long time. And we're going to talk about financial

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Speaker 1: advisors a lot. There's so much to get into on

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Speaker 1: the nitty gritty of finding an advisor, whether or not

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Speaker 1: you need an advisor. I just want to start off

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Speaker 1: by asking, do you personally have a financial advisor?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And no. Well, I don't want to eat I

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Speaker 2: don't want to drink my own kool aid all the time.

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Speaker 2: I need somebody who's going to be coming into my

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Speaker 2: life every now and again to spot check to make

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Speaker 2: sure that I'm really seeing the numbers that that I

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Speaker 2: don't just want to see, but that are real. I

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Speaker 2: need somebody to challenge me, you know, and say, have

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Speaker 2: you thought about it this way, if you thought about

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Speaker 2: it that way, what if this? What if that? So

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Speaker 2: right now, it Joel's kind of on a spotty basis,

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Speaker 2: but the time's going to come when I Am going

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Speaker 2: to get closer to retirement. And when that day comes,

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Speaker 2: there's no question about it, I'm going to want to

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Speaker 2: engage with somebody on an ongoing basis because for me personally,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to do all the tax loss harvesting

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Speaker 2: and roth conversion decisions and timing. And I call it

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Speaker 2: like the maintenance of the garden. Right, You've got to feed,

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Speaker 2: you've got to weed, you've got a deadhead. You've got

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Speaker 2: to do everything planting in your portfolio so it'll grow

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Speaker 2: for you. You either want to do some of it yourself,

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Speaker 2: all of it yourself, or not of it yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just sometimes it just depends on what

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Speaker 1: place you are at in your financial journey. So, especially

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Speaker 1: given the audience we're talking to here, we've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who are keen to try the DIY thing.

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Speaker 1: We've got a lot of younger listeners who are like

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Speaker 1: financial Advisor. I mean, I'm just trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: a budget and start putting money in my four to

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Speaker 1: oh one K or they've made some progress, let's say,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, I've built up a decent nest egg.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if a financial advisor is right for me.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like from the financial advisor industry, what

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Speaker 1: we often hear is that they're the silver bullet, right,

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Speaker 1: this is the key that unlocks your ability to achieve

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Speaker 1: financial success, and that a financial advisors for everybody. Is

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Speaker 1: that true or false?

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Speaker 2: False? No, not at all. You are the silver bullet.

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Speaker 2: And whether or not you use and I'll put it

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Speaker 2: that way, you use it advice or financial coaches expertise,

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Speaker 2: you're paying for that time. You're paying for their expertise,

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Speaker 2: and you're paying for their advice. You are the silver bullet.

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Speaker 2: You want to go into it knowing exactly what you're

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Speaker 2: expecting to get out of it and exactly what you're

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Speaker 2: getting for the money, and you want to understand exactly

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Speaker 2: how you're paying the advisor and why you're paying the advisor.

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Speaker 2: When you do that, then you're in control.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned a financial coach, and that's something I squarely

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Speaker 1: agree with you here on especially, and you are someone

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Speaker 1: who runs a website that helps people find a financial advisor,

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Speaker 1: and so I just appreciate your honesty and integrity and

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Speaker 1: saying that it doesn't it's not the best move for

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Speaker 1: most folks. A money coach or somebody along those lines,

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Speaker 1: And there are accredited, accredited status that some people in

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Speaker 1: that industry are getting. There a few different certifications you

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Speaker 1: can get. I wholeheartedly agree with you, Especially in the

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Speaker 1: beginning of your money journey, whether it's self being self

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Speaker 1: taught or finding somebody in that orbit, it can make

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Speaker 1: a lot more sense. So, yeah, do you think for

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Speaker 1: for people in those early stages, that's usually a place

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Speaker 1: you should turn instead of going directly to like the

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Speaker 1: super pro buttoned up financial advisor you could.

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Speaker 2: You probably don't have a ton of complexity in your

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Speaker 2: life at this point, so certainly at that point in

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Speaker 2: your life, it's not about getting an advisor. If you

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Speaker 2: felt you needed some guidance, the very very first place

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Speaker 2: I would go is I'm gonna preface this by saying

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Speaker 2: that free advice is usually pretty expensive. In other words,

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Speaker 2: it usually sucks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought you were gonna say, chat CHEPT. I

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Speaker 1: was hoping that that's not the case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that does suck because thirty five percent of the

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Speaker 2: time the answers are wrong. Go check it out. Go

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Speaker 2: check it out. You already know, but you unless you know,

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Speaker 2: Unless you check it you maybe you don't know thirty

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Speaker 2: five percent of the time is too much for me.

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Speaker 2: What one out of every three questions I'm going to

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Speaker 2: ask it has to do with my life is going

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Speaker 2: to be wrong. I mean, chatchp, he's fantastic for somethings.

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Speaker 2: But let's let's go back to the guidance from the

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Speaker 2: human that we're thinking about. When the first place I

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Speaker 2: like to go is free, Okay, now that's I'm saying

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Speaker 2: that with a caveat amp. Tour of free advice is

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Speaker 2: usually not so great because your uncle, your uncle Bob

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Speaker 2: might say I've got some free advice for your dol,

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Speaker 2: and that might not be very good advice at all,

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Speaker 2: because you know, he might have made a disaster out

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Speaker 2: of his financial life.

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Speaker 1: Don't throw my uncle under the bus, pam, Okay, not that.

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Speaker 2: Uncle, that's right, right. So let's say that you're young,

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Speaker 2: you know, meaning you're in your twenties, you know, you

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Speaker 2: might be in your thirties, and you're you're either trying

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Speaker 2: to get out of debt, you're trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: the steps to build wealth. You're trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: how am I going to find the money ever for

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Speaker 2: a down payment on a house? How am I going

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Speaker 2: to find the money to put in my four own

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Speaker 2: K just to get the free match money that's available.

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Speaker 2: So it all starts with you and you deciding you

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Speaker 2: have an appetite to learn. Now, everybody listening here has

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Speaker 2: an appetite to learn, or they wouldn't be here. And

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Speaker 2: so once you're at that point, you say, now I

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Speaker 2: want some guidance beyond chat GPT. Then I say, look

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Speaker 2: to the free resources that are available that can support

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Speaker 2: you in the coaching realm. Whereas that maybe where you work.

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Speaker 2: Maybe where you work, the benefits that you have at

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Speaker 2: work may well include financial wellness. That means that there

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Speaker 2: are coaches. Many times there's cfps, but they're accredited. Generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: they might be certified financial Wellness coach. That's the person

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Speaker 2: you can go to and you can say, here's my situation.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to learn more about, you know, figuring out

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Speaker 2: how I can both pay down debt at the same

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Speaker 2: time I can start investing. But I don't want to

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Speaker 2: invest stupidly. I've done my homework. I'm interested in the

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Speaker 2: following things. And then you start a dialogue. Now that

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Speaker 2: costs you nothing because your employer is paying for it.

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Speaker 2: But you're not going to get one on one like

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Speaker 2: strategic advice and tax planning and stay planning, and you

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Speaker 2: don't need that, but you're going to get some coaching.

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Speaker 2: The other way is to go on your own in

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Speaker 2: search of a coach. We have coaches on our platform

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Speaker 2: that we recommend to people when they say, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: willing to spend a little bit of money to subscribe,

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Speaker 2: or it's like me going to yoga, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean Online, I will pay something if it's a

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Speaker 2: great yoga class and I'm going to get something out

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Speaker 2: of it. So that's where coaching can really help you

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Speaker 2: to really figure out. Mostly a lot of times it's

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Speaker 2: just your behavior and you're managing your day to day money,

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Speaker 2: and frankly, sometimes it's to give you encouragement that you're

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Speaker 2: not alone, don't beat yourself up. Everything costs money and

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Speaker 2: you're trying to make ends meet and live paycheck to paycheck.

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Speaker 2: It's just sometimes the coach is really the coach like

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Speaker 2: really helping you emotionally and behaviorally.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that is really crucial too

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Speaker 1: is kind of developing a taste for learning about personal

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Speaker 1: finance and becoming a perpetual learner. I think in that space,

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Speaker 1: I think some people assume outsourcing.

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Speaker 3: I don't really care.

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Speaker 1: I don't care about this topic. Let me outsource this,

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Speaker 1: hire it out, and you can do that with something.

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Speaker 1: So you cannot care about how bogonias grow and have

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Speaker 1: a gardener that tends to that for you. But when

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Speaker 1: it comes to your personal finance, nobody's going to care

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Speaker 1: about your money as much as you do. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: if you know nothing about it, there's a good chance

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Speaker 1: you're going to hire someone who's not actively working in

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Speaker 1: your best interest. So not knowing anything and just hiring out,

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Speaker 1: that's a recipe for failure too.

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Speaker 2: Right, Absolutely, if you go into it, no matter who

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Speaker 2: you are, no matter how little or how much money

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Speaker 2: you've saved, no matter how big your problem is or

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Speaker 2: your challenge or your goal. You want to be in

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Speaker 2: the fire movement, you want to retire early. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter what you want to accomplish. What really matters is

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Speaker 2: that you are the driver, and any guidance that you're

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Speaker 2: going to get, they're sitting in the passenger seat next

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Speaker 2: to you, right, But you want to be the driver. Now,

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Speaker 2: Some people get to a point where they know the

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Speaker 2: advisors so well, and they have a lot of money

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Speaker 2: that they need to have managed their portfolio. They want

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Speaker 2: their portfolio managed. But they're still going to stay in

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Speaker 2: the car, so they switch seats, so they go in

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Speaker 2: the passenger seat. But the reason that I use this

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Speaker 2: car analogy is because you're looking out the windshield together

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Speaker 2: and you're seeing the same weather conditions, the same economy,

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Speaker 2: the same questions you have about policies on tariffs or

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Speaker 2: whatever it might be, or what's going on with inflation,

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Speaker 2: or what's going to happen with the stock market. You

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Speaker 2: are learning on that journey and you may not realize it,

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Speaker 2: but the little bits of knowledge that you're gaining, and

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Speaker 2: this is predicated on the fact that you that the

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Speaker 2: idea that you have the right advisor, Joel, not just

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Speaker 2: an advisor, not just a coach.

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Speaker 3: You have the right coach, the right plug and play.

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Speaker 1: Just get any generic person it kind of suit who

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Speaker 1: has initials after their name, right.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know too many people that are going

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Speaker 2: to walk up to their car and tell the advisor, Okay,

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Speaker 2: here are the keys, get in. I hope you drive

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Speaker 2: carefully by the way, let me know how it goes, right, not.

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Speaker 2: Most people don't let their savings get driven off into

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Speaker 2: the sunset. If the advisor is pushing that at the

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Speaker 2: get go, and you know, asking you to delegate everything

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Speaker 2: and doesn't want to spend time with you, and isn't

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Speaker 2: very generous with their time and their knowledge, and you're

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Speaker 2: not going to learn anything, best to head out the door.

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Speaker 2: That's not the sign of a good collaboration. You can

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Speaker 2: definitely delegate and have the advisor do the driving if

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Speaker 2: you don't want to manage your portfolio, or we can

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Speaker 2: go back to the gardening, you know, if you don't

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Speaker 2: want to do it all, but don't leave completely. You

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Speaker 2: want to make sure that you that's what's going to

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Speaker 2: give you the confidence is because you actually understand the

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Speaker 2: financial plan. You understand the tax minimization strategy. It's also

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Speaker 2: aligned with the investment strategy that's also connected to your

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Speaker 2: family and your plans and your real estate. So you

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Speaker 2: need to be in and present an accounted for at

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Speaker 2: these meetings or don't do it.

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Speaker 1: So some people listening like would fall into that group

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Speaker 1: of well, my assets are too small anyway, I'm just

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Speaker 1: not ready to work with advisor. I'm going to DIY

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Speaker 1: route I'm trying to get to critical mass, but some

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Speaker 1: advisors are pretty picky about who they'll work with, and

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't want to work with those clients anyway. Do

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Speaker 1: you see that as a problem in that industry, that

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Speaker 1: people who want to work with an advisor, they want

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Speaker 1: to find somebody to be their co pilot, but then

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Speaker 1: they get told, sorry, you don't have enough money for

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Speaker 1: me to work with you. How big of a problem

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Speaker 1: is that?

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Speaker 2: The problem is binding the knowing that there are lots

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Speaker 2: of advisors who work with clients who have, you know,

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Speaker 2: very small amounts of money. Lots. The problem is you

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Speaker 2: can't find them, and you don't know where to look,

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Speaker 2: and you don't know what the quality is, and it's

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Speaker 2: hard to vet them. But you have to go find

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Speaker 2: them because most of the big firms that advertise on

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Speaker 2: TV or wherever they're going to have minimums of you know,

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Speaker 2: half million, a million, and there are advisors in my

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Speaker 2: network who want to have a minimum of five million.

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Speaker 2: But when people come to me looking for and they've

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Speaker 2: got maybe seventy five thousand dollars to one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars saved, and they do want an advisor or they've

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Speaker 2: got two hundred and fifty thousand. They're not going to

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Speaker 2: come to me and find that they're getting shot out.

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Speaker 2: I have already curated a network that is a constellation

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Speaker 2: of different advisors with different expertise and different types of clients.

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Speaker 2: It's perfectly okay for an advisory firm to say we

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Speaker 2: specialize in clients who are very complex. Let's say that

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Speaker 2: it's a they work with founders of startups, and those

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Speaker 2: startup founders generally end up with you know, five million

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Speaker 2: dollars plus because they sold their shares, their equity, and

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Speaker 2: they had stock options all that time. That kind of

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Speaker 2: tax advice be goes hand in hand with that type

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Speaker 2: of client might mean that that particular advisor says, that's

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Speaker 2: my client, that's who I specialize in. So no, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to talk to Joel who has fifty thousand.

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Speaker 3: Dollars who runs the stupid podcast.

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Speaker 2: And other advisors are the opposite, and they're going to say,

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Speaker 2: I specialize in working with young people who are mid

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Speaker 2: career and finding that their lives are changing and now

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Speaker 2: they have to juggle kids, house, you know, everything under

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Speaker 2: the sun, and as they age, complexity gets a little

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Speaker 2: bit more and they specialize. So advisors do specialize in

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Speaker 2: different types of clients.

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Speaker 1: Are like rules of thumb for somebody listening, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where I fall on the spectrum. They're like,

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Speaker 1: is an advisor? Am I at the right point in

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Speaker 1: my life where an advisor makes sense? Or not? What

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Speaker 1: rules of thumb might you tell them? Or what questions

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Speaker 1: might you prod them with to help them decide whether

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Speaker 1: or not hiring somebody makes sense?

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Speaker 2: That this juncture usually jo When people come to me,

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Speaker 2: it's because they've hit some sort of obstacle or they

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Speaker 2: feel that they've gone to the edges of their own

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Speaker 2: ability to Maybe it's managed your own portfolio using digital tools,

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Speaker 2: maybe it's investing in ETFs or whatever. Wherever they're at

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Speaker 2: in their journey, they get to a point where they say,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've done everything I can do myself,

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Speaker 2: and now it's time for fresh eyes. Now the fresh

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Speaker 2: eyes could simply be coaching and guidance, and you might

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Speaker 2: be able to get that, you know, free financial wellness

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Speaker 2: at work, or hire a coach, or you might say, no,

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Speaker 2: I actually need actionable advice that I can actually get specific,

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Speaker 2: prescriptive advice that I'll pay for. Here's the difference between

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Speaker 2: what you get from a coach and what you get

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Speaker 2: from a financial advisor. A coach is going to say

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Speaker 2: the following, You're going to come to me with a problem.

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Speaker 2: You're going to explain it. I'm going to kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, say it back to you, and then I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say, if I were you, I'd look at this, Joel.

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Speaker 2: If I were you, I would look at that, Joel,

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Speaker 2: and point out the things that you can then take

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Speaker 2: home as your homework. You've got guidance, but you're going

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Speaker 2: to do it on your own. You're going to execute

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Speaker 2: everything on your own. An advisor is different. An advisor

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Speaker 2: is a fiducial. Make sure and we'll talk about that too,

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Speaker 2: that they are conduciary and that means they're giving you

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Speaker 2: actionable advice. So I'm going to say, I'm the advisor,

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Speaker 2: and I'm now going to say, well, Joel, let's look

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Speaker 2: at what would happen if we did do that, if

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Speaker 2: we put some money into private investments, we put this,

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Speaker 2: we did that, we had this money toward a house,

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Speaker 2: and they're going to say, this is what that would

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Speaker 2: look like. Here's what I recommend that you don't do

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Speaker 2: and do do. That is an advisor, because they're giving

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Speaker 2: you advice that you're then going to go out and

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Speaker 2: act upon. That's why it's so critically important that if

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Speaker 2: you do seek advice, not just guidance and coaching, but

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Speaker 2: actual advice, it must be from an advisor who's accountable,

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Speaker 2: legally accountable for it at the fiduciary level. Which that's

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Speaker 2: why that's so important.

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Speaker 1: I want to get into that. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the fiduciary necessity. I just want to start out, though,

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Speaker 1: by asking. You said at one point that only a

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Speaker 1: small fraction of advisors are worth trusting.

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Speaker 2: That's correct.

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Speaker 3: Why why are there so many bad apples in the

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Speaker 3: space there is?

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Speaker 2: It's not that there are so many bad apples. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of mediocre apples. I don't want mediocre. I

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Speaker 2: don't even want good. I don't even want pretty good

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Speaker 2: or good. I want outstanding and exceptional. So now here's

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Speaker 2: the secret that everybody will love knowing this. You're going

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Speaker 2: to pay the same fee for the outstanding advisor and

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Speaker 2: the outstanding advice as you are for the pretty good.

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Speaker 2: So wouldn't you rather find the outstanding and the exceptional.

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Speaker 3: Why is that?

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Speaker 1: Why are we not paying more for to get the best?

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Speaker 1: Why are the best not charging more? Why are they

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Speaker 1: charging roughly the same amount as the mediocre.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes charging less. The best of the best are out there.

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Speaker 2: They're humble, they're not out boasting and bragging, they're not

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Speaker 2: spending gobs of money in advertising. They're just really really competent,

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Speaker 2: highly qualified, they care deeply about their clients, and they're humble,

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Speaker 2: so they don't walk around, you know, with a lot

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Speaker 2: of arrogance and you know, cookie cutter and all that.

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Speaker 2: So what happens is when you go to an advisor

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Speaker 2: who's mediocre or cookie cutter, you're going to pay whatever

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Speaker 2: the going rate is. Okay, if you also compared that

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Speaker 2: to an advisor who happens to be exceptional, then you're

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Speaker 2: going to find that the outstanding or exceptional advisor has

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Speaker 2: the exact same type of fee, but the difference is

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Speaker 2: the quality of the individual. That's why it's so important

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Speaker 2: to if you are going to spend money on an

405
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Speaker 2: advisor or coach that you absolutely just really take it

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Speaker 2: very thoughtfully, because if I'm going to listen to this person,

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Speaker 2: I need to make sure that this person is actually

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Speaker 2: all that I need them to be, especially in a pinch.

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Speaker 2: I want to know I can call you on a

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Speaker 2: Saturday and even if you're not right there, I know

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Speaker 2: I'm going to hear right back from you pretty quickly,

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Speaker 2: and that you know me. There's a lot of variables.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about finding the top tier apples

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Speaker 1: because I think it's such an important piece of this.

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Speaker 1: And how do you know the mediocre from the great.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about the fiduciary standard versus the suitability standard.

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Speaker 1: What do people need to know when they're trying to

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Speaker 1: pick an advisor. And most people would think, if I'm

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Speaker 1: hiring an advisor, well, I'm guessing they're going to do

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Speaker 1: what's in my best interest, but they might not be

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Speaker 1: required to. And so how do you know the difference

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Speaker 1: and what to look.

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Speaker 2: For the history of the industry was never this industry

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Speaker 2: financial services that we know with the big brand names.

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Speaker 2: That was never predicated on advice. That was always predicated

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Speaker 2: on sales. It's a sales model I used to do

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Speaker 2: when I was twenty four years old and then I

428
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Speaker 2: was a vice president. I used to do this way

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Speaker 2: back in the day.

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Speaker 1: So what do you mean by that it was predicated

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Speaker 1: on sales, which means that it wasn't about giving you

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Speaker 1: the best advice. It was getting you in their products

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Speaker 1: that made them the most money.

434
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't about advice at all. It really wasn't when I,

435
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 2: especially when I was there, and I remember, you know,

436
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 2: this is kind of a history lesson, but remember you

437
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: know back in the old days when I was there,

438
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: and I'm talking about the eighties, you know, I go

439
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 2: on the wayback machine. This was before the internet. So, Joel,

440
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: what did we have as brokers? We were called stockbrokers.

441
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 2: Do you remember that term stockbroker?

442
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 3: I do, Okay.

443
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: We weren't called advisors. We worked at big brokerage firms,

444
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: and we were stock brokers. So the whole point was

445
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: that we had information you didn't have, the public didn't have.

446
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: So when you would come to me, I was able

447
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: to explain to you what was happening with a company

448
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: and its earnings and its research because my brokerage firm

449
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: generated this really expensive research and I would share that

450
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: with you if you were a client. So we were

451
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: brokering information and we were helping people execute trades, and

452
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: we were explaining and recommending the kinds of things that

453
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 2: we sold, like mutual funds, things like that. So that

454
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 2: model has nothing to do with tax planning, nothing to

455
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: do with the state planning, nothing to do with pulling

456
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: all the pieces together holistically and looking at your spouse

457
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: and your family and your kids, and you know it

458
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: does your real estate. It has to do with back then,

459
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 2: we were there to be stock brokers. Therefore, the SEC

460
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 2: never looked at brokerage firms and said we need to

461
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: regulate you, and you need to be held to the

462
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: fiduciary standard that we hold investment advisors to, which is

463
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: up here. Instead, as long as you make recommendations to

464
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: the public that are suitable, then that's defensible. That's okay.

465
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 2: Over here on the other side of the of the

466
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: other say, channel of advisors who are out there, real

467
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: financial advisors who are out there working directly for clients.

468
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: They don't work at brokerage firms. They work independently and

469
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: they only get paid by their clients. And the SEC

470
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: in the state says, okay, we're going to consider you

471
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: financial advisors, not just representing products and services from a

472
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: big firm. You are actually paid by the client to

473
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: give that client advice, and therefore we need you to

474
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: be held to a higher legal standard called the fiduciary standard,

475
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: which means by law you are bound and obligated to

476
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 2: follow best practices at the fiduciary standard, which means if

477
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: you're an advisor, you got a lot more on the

478
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: hook over here than you would if you worked at

479
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: a brokerage firm. So when I worked at a brokerage firm,

480
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: I was shielded and I wasn't really worried that if

481
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: I gave you some bumb advice that I was going

482
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 2: to get sued over here, the financial advisor who's fiduciary

483
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: has a huge liability their response.

484
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: If they put me in something that isn't in my

485
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: best interest, there's.

486
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 2: A lawsuit that can coluse their practice.

487
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: But if they are not held to the fiduciary standard,

488
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: as an individual, I don't really have much recourse.

489
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: No, you don't have much recourse. And so as a result,

490
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: there's this whole bifurcation in this financial services industry. So

491
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 2: think of it if you would, as a fork in

492
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: the road. The fork in the road is ninety percent

493
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: of the folks who are at financial advisors in the

494
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: United States the vast majority ninety percent work for brokerage

495
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: firms or insurance companies, and they are now called advisors.

496
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: Where they used to be called brokers or insurance agents,

497
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 2: now they're called advisors. But over here on the road

498
00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: less traveled is a much smaller swarth of real advisors

499
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: called fiduciary fee only advisors. There's about sixty thousand of

500
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: the five hundred thousand, sixty thousand in the United States

501
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 2: who operate at the fiduciary level that practice legally at

502
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 2: the fiduciary level.

503
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: If there's a big brand name attached to somebody who's

504
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: trying to help me manage my money, is that a

505
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: red flag? I Like, I've seen their commercials while I

506
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: was watching football, and this guy works for that company,

507
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: So maybe I should join forces. That's the company that

508
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: I should go with.

509
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Look, you know some of my really

510
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 2: good friends work at brokerage firms. Would I go to

511
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: a brokerage firm for advice? That would be like, why

512
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: would I go to a Why would I go to

513
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: an organization that's not to chooses, Remember Joel, they choose

514
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: not to be fiduciary. Yeah, why would I choose to

515
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: get my most important money advice from someone who chooses

516
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: to not be held legally to the highest fiduciary standard.

517
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: Went over here. Now now it's a pain in the neck.

518
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: NA got to go out and I've got to find

519
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: this individual. These individuals, they're not just in the smaller

520
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 2: firms and boutique firms who are independent. They don't work

521
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: at brokerage firms, but they're held to that higher standard.

522
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: So that's the way you have to look at it.

523
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: Like going to Taco Bell for health food. You might

524
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: be able to find it there, but that's not what

525
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: they specialize.

526
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: You've got to just understand follow the money. What happens

527
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: at a brokerage firm. It's really they don't work for you.

528
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: The people at the brokerage firm don't work for you.

529
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: They work for the brokerage firm. The advisors over here

530
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: who are fiduciaris legally, they're on the hook because they

531
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: answer to you. You're the one paying them. Yeah, I

532
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: mean you're still paying commissions. You're still paying the commissions

533
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: when you buy the products at the brokerage firm. But

534
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: the actual the actual well advisor sitting in a chair

535
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: working for a brokerage firm representing the brokerage firms interests.

536
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: They're not representing your interest to represent the brokerage firms interests.

537
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: So you've said fee only multiple times. I want to

538
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: talk about that, how advisors get paid, what we should

539
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: expect from them, how to interview and find a great

540
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: advisor that makes sense for your needs if you're looking

541
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 1: for one. We've got a lot more questions to get

542
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: to with Pam. We'll hit those up right after this.

543
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: Right we'll back still talk with Pam Krueger talking about

544
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: financial advisors, and we're going deep. We're getting into the

545
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: nitty gritty about how advisors get paid, whether or not

546
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: an advisor makes sense for you, and I'm guessing for

547
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: some listeners out there, financial advisor makes a ton of

548
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: sense for you given where you're at in your financial journey,

549
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: and for others of you out there, it would be

550
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: a terrible idea at this juncture. And then even if

551
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: a financial advisor is right for you right now, how

552
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: do you go about finding the right one? So much

553
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: to cover, and one thing, I think it's interesting like

554
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: advisors seem to offer a wider array of services now,

555
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: which is kind of awesome, Like I love that it

556
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: feels like they can. It used to be this thought

557
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, it's just the products that they're selling you.

558
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: And now we're seeing advisors say no, no, we want

559
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: to help you, like plan for decades. What should we

560
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: want or expect from advisors on that front in terms

561
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: of what ground they're going to cover.

562
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: Advisors who have always been fiduciaries and always been I

563
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: won't get to the feel only in a second that

564
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: the fiducieries they've always had to look contextually. They've had

565
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: to look at your whole big picture. They can't give

566
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: you advice on one little slice of your life unless

567
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: they know how it interplays with everything else you're doing

568
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: in your life and your family. So there's no there's

569
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 2: no way that they that they would do. Then how

570
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: do you find the advisors who offer not only offer this,

571
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: but are again exceptional and not just mediocre. That's where

572
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: the vetting comes in, and it takes time, and that's

573
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: why it's so important that all I ask is, you know,

574
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: just stop at this threshold the minute you think you

575
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: need help, and just slow your mind down a little bit,

576
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: take it one step at a time and think about

577
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: how am I going to vet the advisor starting with yes,

578
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: they are offering more services. So I want to start

579
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: with myself at the center of the world here, and

580
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: I want to say, what am I trying to accomplish?

581
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: Why do I think I might ever need an advisor?

582
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: What is it that I'm trying to do. Some people

583
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 2: are going to answer that question and they're going to say,

584
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: I want to buy rental properties, and in addition to

585
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: my full time job, I want to become a landlord

586
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: and I want to invest in real estate. And others

587
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: might say I want want to learn more about alternative investments,

588
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: and I want to know figure out how I'm going

589
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: to you know, buy buy, purchase my first time home.

590
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: Let's say it's not for rental purposes, but just you

591
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: want to buy your first time home. You want to

592
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: get ready for retirement, you want to make sure you're

593
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: fortified for that. So I want to start with myself

594
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: as the center point and say, what do I need

595
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: that will help guide me to What kinds of advisor

596
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: services do I really need? What do I need the

597
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: advisor to know the most about and specialize in If

598
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: that advisor is really going to help me what do

599
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: they need to really specialize in. Well, I want to

600
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: make sure they've got clients that are like me and

601
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: are in my same situation, so that I know that

602
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: this is their this is their wheelhouse. So that's the

603
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: way I approach it. Because advisors who advise holistically, and

604
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: that's every fiduciary, advisors whose feeling is going to give

605
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: you the whole picture. So now it's just up to you, Joel,

606
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: to figure out what do I really want to accomplish.

607
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: And it could be I want a one time engagement.

608
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to get married to the advisor. Yeah,

609
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to pay the advisor forever. I just

610
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: want to know, should I if I took this position

611
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: over here, or if I started this business over here,

612
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: and if I did this with my money? Oh, my

613
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 2: head's going to explode. I think I want to talk

614
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: to a financial advisor. Can you buy some time? Can

615
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: you buy some hours straight up and get some really

616
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: good advice from an advisor who specializes in advising small

617
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: business owners? Heck, yeah, yeah, you can find that kind

618
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: of help.

619
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: Or you're getting an inheritance and the stakes are up

620
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: and you're like, I want someone to talk to for

621
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: two or three hours now, But I don't necessarily need

622
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: a full financial plan worked up. It depends on yeah,

623
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: where you find yourself. Let's dial in on fee only

624
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: for a second, because there some financial advisors are fee based,

625
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: and fee based sounds likely, but it's not fee only.

626
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: And why are you such a proponent of the fee

627
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: only model? Why is that like at the crux of

628
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: it feels like that's at the crux of what you

629
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: require from advisors, oh, is to have this fee only model.

630
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: I am so sorry that this industry has gotten to

631
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: the point where we're talking so stupidly fee based fee

632
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: only consumers are supposed to know the difference. It's ridiculous

633
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: we this industry. What a mess we have made at

634
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: a making financial advice makes sense. It's so stupidly complicated

635
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: for no good reason. Fee only means the advisor is

636
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: compensated only by fees that come directly from the client,

637
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: so that we make sure that that advisor only works

638
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: for the client. Let me give you an example. You say, Okay,

639
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: I want a fee only advisor. Why because I want

640
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: to talk about everything under the sun. And if he

641
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: starts talking about it or she starts talking about insurance,

642
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that they don't sell insurance

643
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: and get commissions, because how am I ever going to

644
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: get an unbiased opinion about something like insurance from the

645
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: guy who sells insurance. So you're taking out all the

646
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: incentives that you possibly can for that person to benefit

647
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: by recommending one thing over another, and you're putting the

648
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: focus squarely on evaluating everything under the sun and looking

649
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: at what would be best for you because they work

650
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: directly for you, So fee only means their fee comes

651
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: only from you, not from commissions. Fee based is remember

652
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: that fork in the road. Okay, fee only is its

653
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: own fork. This is the road less traveled. The road

654
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: over here, the main highway includes fee based. That means

655
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 2: that I get paid as an advisor both by selling

656
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: some insurance getting commissions by the way, that's coming out

657
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: of your pocket, and I also charge your fees, so

658
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: I kind of do both. So that's a high bred model.

659
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: Does the fe based advisor have or there are they

660
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: potentially putting you in more expensive funds because they stand

661
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 1: to benefit from that as well, Whereas like the fee

662
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: only advisor is more apt to steer you towards low

663
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: cost funds.

664
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: The fee only advisor's job is to make sure that

665
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: the fees are as low as possible. Yeah, across every

666
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: investment you make, because Juell, you're paying me, So my

667
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: job is to get your returns as high as possible.

668
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: Make sure that I get your tax planning done, all

669
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: of what you need for as little as possible. So

670
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: if I go stupidly pick a fund that has some

671
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: big expense to it, they're better will be a good

672
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: reason because it better pay off, because that's going to

673
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: come back on me as the advisor. I'm accountable. The

674
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 2: fee based is going to make the case, well, this

675
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: is a really good fund, and you know, I can

676
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 2: justify why I would recommend this fund to this client,

677
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: and you have to. There's no way to read their

678
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 2: mind and know whether or not they're incentivized to push

679
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: that particular fund because it pays them more and they're

680
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: going to make their mortgage payment that month because they

681
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: sold that to you. But I mean, you don't want

682
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: to put yourself in a situation like that in the

683
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: first place. You just want to say, look, if I'm

684
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: going to get advice, i'd rather know that it's a

685
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 2: straight up relationship. Yeah, I'm paying the advisor. I know

686
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: what I'm paying the advisor as one hundred percent transparent,

687
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: They're legally required to explain it to me, and I

688
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: know this advisor's working for me and me only.

689
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: We know looking at evidence that individuals have a really

690
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: hard time outperforming the stock market, especially for any meaningful

691
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: length of time. Is that something that some financial advisors

692
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: are touting, is like, Hey, I've got super duper skills

693
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: when it comes to stock picking and choosing the right funds,

694
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: and we're going to outperform this other guy down the street.

695
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: Is that something that people are marketing themselves on. Is

696
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: that something that people should be aware of when they're

697
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: looking at for an advisor and maybe be wary of.

698
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: They're really big red flag because you know, diversification wins

699
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 2: all battles. And by now we know that people have

700
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: one gotten way ahead just by not trying to pick

701
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: horses and bet on different horses in the race, but

702
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: actually bet on the entire race. And that's and by

703
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: the time it's all said and done, you know, the

704
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: research has proven itself. However, However, Joel, what if you

705
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: were the person who said, ah ah, I don't want

706
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: those average stock market s and p returns. I want

707
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: something fancier. Can I find an advisor who specializes in

708
00:38:54,160 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: something fancier? Yes, you can't. Now vetting that advisor and

709
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 2: their fee only, I would run the other direction. If

710
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: this came in boasting and bragging about their great returns

711
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: and how fabulous they are, it's a red flag. But

712
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: I have many I have two hundred and thirty advisors

713
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: in my network, and I have many who say yes,

714
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: of course, I'm a CFA, which means charted financial analyst,

715
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 2: and we can come up with portfolios that are personalized fugeel.

716
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: We don't need to just invest in Vanguard s and

717
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: p or you don't have to be a bugle head.

718
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: We can do something other than that and be very tactical. Yes,

719
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: you can find it, but again it comes down to

720
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: the vetting to make sure that that advisor is truly

721
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: competent and qualified to have a great condemonstrate that they

722
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: have the knowledge in the understanding to offer those kinds

723
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: of strategies.

724
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: We covered fee only, but I'm curious, what does it

725
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: look like to actually pay your advisor and does it

726
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: depend because because it's probably unless it is that select

727
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: occasion where I really am just looking for a few

728
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: hours of advice, and yes, I can find somebody via

729
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: that model, but what is it, how much is it

730
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: going to cost, and how how am I actually going

731
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: to pay them? Because fee only, there's still different ways

732
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: that I can pay the advisor under a fee only model, right.

733
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 3: So absolutely, yeah, explain.

734
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: That there are some advisors and some in my network

735
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: who will say I want to keep my client based small.

736
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: I'm a portfolio manager who does financial planning, estate planning,

737
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 2: and tax planning. So therefore, I am going to have

738
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: one model for fee only, which means I'm going to

739
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: charge you based on the assets that I'm managing for you.

740
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: In other words, I'm doing the gardening and going to

741
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to take a percentage of what comes out

742
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: of the garden, and we take a percentage of it's

743
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: usually one percent one percent. Now, their goal is to

744
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: keep all your other costs down, and that one percent

745
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: is much less, by the way, than you would pay

746
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 2: if you went to commission based products. But at the

747
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: end of the day, you may say I don't want that.

748
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 2: Though I don't want you, You're not the right advisor

749
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: for me. I want the only I want to pay you.

750
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: Can I just pay you like on a retainer fee

751
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: or a flat fee? And do you have to manage

752
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: my money? So it's called scope of work. So what

753
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: happens is you come in to talk to the advisor

754
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: who's a real advisor, and they're going to say, let's

755
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: talk about what you want to accomplish. Now, let's talk

756
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: about the scope of work required to help you accomplish

757
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: that or get over the challenge, whatever it is, and

758
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: you want to do it on an ongoing basis. So

759
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: let's then discuss time and complexity. I can propose it

760
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: to you in two ways. You can pay me a

761
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: retainer fee, or you can pay me an as expressed

762
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: as a percentage of assets under management, which is one percent,

763
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 2: but usually less than one percent. So if a person

764
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: had a million dollar portfolio, you would say, well, that's

765
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars. Probably not, it's probably gonna if you're

766
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: if you're not terribly complex, it's gonna be less than that,

767
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: probably more like you know, seveny five hundred a year,

768
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: something like that. And for that fee, you know exactly

769
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: what you're paying. You also know exactly what you're getting,

770
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 2: so it's assets under management, it's retainer or flat fee,

771
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 2: or it's a one off. It's just like, hey, I

772
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: just want to buy some time and have you walk

773
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: me through this big decision I'm about to make. Maybe

774
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: I'll come back later, maybe I won't, so you can

775
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: do it ongoing or one off. So it's those those

776
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: are the pretty much, you know, the only ways that

777
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 2: you're going to pay the advisor based on It's either

778
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: going to be time and it's always going to be

779
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: time and complexity no matter what.

780
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: If I sign up with an advisor and I'm ready

781
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: to enter this relationship and I'm ready to fork over

782
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: the money because I need the help and I think

783
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: they're going to be able to help me get where

784
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: I'm want to get. What am I getting? Like? How

785
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: how often should I expect that we're working together? What

786
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: are those meetings? What are they comprised of? What questions

787
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: should I be prepared to ask in the meeting? Because

788
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: again we're talking about being in the driver's seat, not

789
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: in the passenger seat, So like I can't just hand

790
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: over the reins. What am I getting?

791
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: And I don't know?

792
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: Can I like text them on a Friday night when

793
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm watching Netflix, and I've got a random question and

794
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: expect them to get back to me within you know,

795
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: seventy two hours or something like that.

796
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yes you can, and yes you should. So you

797
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: absolutely want to stay in that passenger seat or stay

798
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: in the driver's seat collaborating with the advisor. What you

799
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: should expect to get out of the fee that you're

800
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: paying and get out of the whole experience is you're

801
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 2: building a plan. You're building a plan that accounts for

802
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: a ton of things you worry about or what you

803
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: think about about money, things you don't know. You're looking

804
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: at what if scenarios, you're stress testing. So when it's

805
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: done correctly, you walk away with a tax minimization strategy

806
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: that do you feel like, oh good, I don't have

807
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: to keep up with all the tax laws and all

808
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: the changes. You're walking away with a financial plan that

809
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: includes cash flow, means, budget, how much am I spending? Spending, guardrails,

810
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 2: and you're walking away with a state plan. Now all

811
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: that doesn't even touch the investment piece. It has to

812
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: align with your investment strategy. But just the planning alone,

813
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: all by itself, those three components that's going to be

814
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: if you're working ongoing, that's going to be a resilient plan,

815
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: and you're going to walk away saying, oh my god.

816
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: Not only do I understand the plan, I helped build it.

817
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: I know what went into it. I understand it to

818
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: the point where I'm so confident that we've already stress

819
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: tested a lot of my concerns, and I know that

820
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: going forward when interest rates change, if the market drops

821
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 2: twenty percent, just all these changes that can happen that

822
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: are outside your control, and changes in your lifestyle that

823
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 2: are in your control, all of that gets accounted for

824
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: so that the plan is dynamic. So gone are the

825
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: days with your granddaddy's financial plan where they, you know,

826
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: they put together this piece of pic, this binder, and

827
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: they go, here's your plan, Joel. Here you go and

828
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: it goes in a closet and in five years you

829
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: pull it out and it's stale because everything's changed. The

830
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: economy's changed, stock market's changed, you've changed. So what we ongoing.

831
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: You're getting your money's more than your money's worth from

832
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: all the planning. Then on top of it, you're getting

833
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: the investment strategy that aligns with all your tax strategy

834
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: and all your financial and cash flow strategy, so you're

835
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 2: not putting yourself in a bind, in a position where

836
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: you're investing in things and then going, oh my god,

837
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: I can't get my money out right now out or

838
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: duplicating all those things. So it's a ongoing relationship that

839
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: more than pays for itself if it's done correctly and

840
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: if it's with the right advisor, and that's a key

841
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,439
Speaker 2: to the whole thing.

842
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, have a few more questions for you, Pam,

843
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: including I want to talk about wealth ramp and how

844
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: you help people specifically find the right advisor for them,

845
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: and also like breaking up with an advisor, what if

846
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: your advisor stinks so you need to move on. We'll

847
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: get to a few questions like that with Pam right

848
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 1: after this a back still talk with Pam Krueger talking

849
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: about financial advisors and man, this is like one of

850
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: those situations walking through the woods full of bear traps.

851
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: How do you avoid the bear traps and get where

852
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: you're trying to go without like getting your foot snapped off?

853
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 3: Pam.

854
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: One of the most fascinating studies to me. It was

855
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: done a while back. I think it was done by Vanguard,

856
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 1: and Vanguard found that individuals who have a financial advisor

857
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: tend to outperform people who don't by a not insignificant margin.

858
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: And I think if you're super into diying it and

859
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: you go it alone, but you are a perpetual learner,

860
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: you can do just fine. But I think a lot

861
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: of people, to their detriment, don't get a financial advisor.

862
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: And they and the big reason, and tell me if

863
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, is probably because of coaching. Probably because they're

864
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: making mistakes because of emotion, and an advisor really would

865
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: have helped them not make a mistake in the heat

866
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: of the moment.

867
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a thousand different ways that when people do

868
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 2: it right, again, it's the right fit, it's the right advisor.

869
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 2: Then the advisor Number one is you know, keeping the

870
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: cost down, like on the investments that you already had,

871
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 2: helping you to work with your spouse or your partner.

872
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: Let's face it, sometimes we marry an opposite. You know.

873
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 2: Sometimes the person you're married, you're a neat nick and

874
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: you know he might be not so neat. Same thing

875
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: with money. People kind of end up getting into relationships

876
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: over long periods of times and they figure out, oh,

877
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 2: I'm not going to fight about money all the time.

878
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: So instead I'm just going to accept this is this

879
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: and that's that. But the day of reckoning might come

880
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: later when something comes up, something happens. You got to

881
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: figure out what you're going to do.

882
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: So that unbiased third party, the advisor, can be especially

883
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: helpful in those scenarios.

884
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that advisor is going to listen to both

885
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 2: of you, listen to each of you. And I can't

886
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: tell you how many times I've seen it with my

887
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: own eyes where the advisor was able to like really

888
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: help them stabilize their marriage because they had to. They

889
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: had to figure out the middle ground that was going

890
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 2: to work for each of them and actually talk openly

891
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 2: without the emotion and with the advisor in the room

892
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 2: knowing them really well. It's just one example.

893
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: And they pay so they play part therapist. What if

894
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: someone out there is listening and they're like, I have

895
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: an advisor. Pretty sure, they're not fee only pretty sure.

896
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: They work for one of those big companies that advertises

897
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: during football games, And man, they called me up the

898
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 1: other day and they tried to sell me this insurance

899
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: policy even though it's something we hadn't really discussed before.

900
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's a few red flags hitting me

901
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: as I'm listening to Pam talk about this, what would

902
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: you tell that person and how do how does someone

903
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: exit a relationship that maybe is question a toxic advisor relationship?

904
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: Right, And let me start off too by saying, let

905
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: me throw a caveat out there. There are a lot

906
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: of very really good, well meaning brokers at brokerage firms,

907
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: and they really know a lot and they do a

908
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 2: great job by the client. There are many people that

909
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: come to me and they say, you know, I've been

910
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 2: with my advisor. I've been with her for thirty years

911
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 2: and she's you know, at a brokerage firm. But that

912
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 2: kind of thing sometimes does happen Joel, where they call

913
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 2: me and behind that advisor's back, they will call and

914
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: they'll say, I just kind of don't think it's working anymore,

915
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 2: and I don't want to hurt their feelings. We've been

916
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 2: with them for thirty years or twenty years or ten years,

917
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 2: or it's my brother in law. How do I get

918
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 2: out of this? And I do want to find a

919
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: feel only advisor. And then that's when I say, this

920
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 2: is exactly what you do. You don't get into the

921
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: conversation with someone when you're going to break up with them,

922
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: you just literally say things have changed in my life,

923
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: or if you're married or you have a partner, things

924
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: have changed in our personal life. And it's very private,

925
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: and you have done such a good job for me

926
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: for a really long time, and I am going to

927
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: move on, and I know you'll respect my privacy in

928
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: not discussing this further, and don't talk about it. Leave it,

929
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 2: just leave it alone, don't get into it, because that

930
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: way you don't have to explain yourself. In other words,

931
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 2: you saying haven't you worked for me? Haven't I paid

932
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 2: you enough over the past twenty five years. If I

933
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 2: choose to leave now, you've won the game advisor or broker,

934
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: You've already won because I already paid all this money,

935
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: And thank you very much for your service. It's been great.

936
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: I got the best of you. Let somebody else have

937
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 2: the rest of you now, and you move on.

938
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: I think it's a great way to do it because

939
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: it's that relational piece that's the hardest for people. It's like,

940
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let this person down. They're going to be upset,

941
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, you got to find a way,

942
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: Just like clean yep, make a clean break.

943
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: And you just you don't blame it on them. You

944
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: don't talk about something that was a shortcoming. You don't

945
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 2: talk about their fees. You don't unless you want to

946
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: ask questions, of course, but if you really just want

947
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: to make a clean break, you just say something has

948
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: come up for me, and it's very private. I don't

949
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: want to discuss it. You have been great, Joel, You've

950
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: been fantastic, and now I'm ready to move on, and

951
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: I know you'll respect my privacy.

952
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: I feel like the search process for finding a great

953
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: advisor has been difficult, to say the least. And even

954
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 1: organizations that have existed to try to group like minded

955
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: advisors together, they just kind of have a listicle of

956
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand people people that have paid to join

957
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: the network. But my goodness, how do you find the

958
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: advisor like you're talking about that matches your priorities, that

959
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: works with people like you. That's been a real big barrier,

960
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: and that's I think why a lot of people go

961
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: to a with a company that markets heavily. They're just like,

962
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: I guess that's the place to turn. Yeah, so, and

963
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: that's that's why you created wealth Ramp. What does wealth

964
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: Ramp do that was necessary in the marketplace? And also

965
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: just tell me too, I know you were like reticent

966
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: to launch this car or to really get into this

967
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: service of helping pair individuals with advisors. I knew it

968
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: was a big problem, but you were like, I don't

969
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: want to tackle it. I wanted to actually tackle it.

970
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to

971
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: be when somebody said to me, you know, I had

972
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: a television series called money Track that was on two

973
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 2: hundred plus PBS stations for years. John Bogel was a regular.

974
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: I was telling people how to DIY. The last thing

975
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 2: I was going to do is talk about the greatness

976
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: of financial advisors. But our viewers, our viewers kept emailing

977
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: me and saying, Pam, there's nothing out there. If I

978
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: do want an advisor and you've given us great vetting tips,

979
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 2: we don't know where to go. Can't you give us

980
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 2: some referrals? And my first answer, my first inclination, was

981
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm never going to do that. And now fast forward,

982
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 2: I'm in love. I'm in love with doing this and

983
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 2: if it's hard for me to find these advisors, it's

984
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 2: going to be hard for everybody to find these advisors

985
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 2: because I'm looking for the exceptional, not just the pretty good.

986
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: So it took me a long time to curate a

987
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 2: network of two hundred and thirty different fee only firms.

988
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: You say a long time, you mean multiple years and

989
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: lots of conversations with individual advisors around the country. You're

990
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: not just relying on internet reviews. This is not yelping

991
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: your way to this website. This is a lot of

992
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: personal relationships and a lot of h oh my painstaking effort.

993
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god. My name is on every referral. My

994
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 2: name is on every single referral. So the vetting has

995
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: to reflect me. And that took me about eighteen months.

996
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: And even people that were close to me, my family,

997
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 2: my friends when I was starting this that were like, Pam,

998
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: are you ever going to launch this thing? And I

999
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: was like, you don't understand. I can't launch this until

1000
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: everything is curated and that I've done the vetting. That

1001
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: means interviewing every single advisor I'm interested in and kissing

1002
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: tons and tons of frogs. Then the other important aspect

1003
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,720
Speaker 2: was I had to make a private which meant very limiting.

1004
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 2: It meant that the people who come to wealthamp dot

1005
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 2: com and go through the survey, get matched with an advisor.

1006
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 2: They see the three advisors, so you can see the

1007
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: advisors that I am recommending for you. But it's a

1008
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: one way mirror, so I've designed it so that you

1009
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: can see them, they can't see you. So you have

1010
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 2: all the power. You have all of the control over

1011
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 2: how and when you want to initiate a conversation with

1012
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: an advisor. Now, I know a lot of people will say, well,

1013
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: I'm kind of shy. Can I have the advisor reach

1014
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 2: out to me. Yes, we can make that happen. Course,

1015
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: we're going to make it super easy on the platform,

1016
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 2: but I Am not going to go into this with

1017
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 2: an assumption that you want an advisor to contact you

1018
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 2: unless you tell me, and you're the one right on

1019
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: the website. You can schedule the meeting right there or

1020
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 2: send a message to that to that advisor. But I

1021
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: want you to be in control.

1022
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: And that's been another one of the problems with some

1023
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: of those websites in the past, is you put in

1024
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: your information and it's like, yeah, we're going to find

1025
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 1: the right person for you, and then you get hounded

1026
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 1: with emails and phone calls just just like one of

1027
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: those mortgage shopping websites and you're like, I didn't realize

1028
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: I was going to get called this many times and

1029
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: you just you shut down and that good. No, it's

1030
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: a crummy feeling. So I love the integrity that you're

1031
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: approaching this topic and the website that you've built to

1032
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: really help people connect to a financial advisor if it's

1033
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: right for them, and with the right advisor that you've vetted,

1034
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: because again, like you said, you want a great one,

1035
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: not an average one. So Pam, where where else where

1036
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: can how the money listeners find out more about you

1037
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: and more about what you're up to At.

1038
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 2: Wealthramp wellthrapped dot com is the website I write for

1039
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 2: Kiplinger about once a month so and I have a

1040
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 2: lot of educational materials that are just out there. There's

1041
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: Pam Krueger dot com, this money track dot org. But

1042
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: Wealthrapped dot com is a great starting place because that's

1043
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 2: where you're going to see the blog and the conversations

1044
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 2: around educating how to financial advisors operate, how do they charge,

1045
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 2: how much do you pay? And what the heck do

1046
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 2: you get out of it? And how do you work

1047
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: with them? And then how do you break up with them?

1048
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 3: The whole game our no, no.

1049
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: I want important really, I'll give you this one tidbit

1050
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: really quick. One metric I look at that's so telling

1051
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 2: is the advisor has a ninety on wealth Rampa has

1052
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: ninety eight percent client retention rate. So clients are clients

1053
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: once they once they find the right advisor, they are

1054
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 2: with that advisor.

1055
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's another good metric to use. Yeah,

1056
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: do people want to keep working with them, then you

1057
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: might want to work with them. Pam, this has been

1058
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining

1059
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: me today.

1060
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1061
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: Man, what a great conversation with Pam. And I just

1062
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: I really love the integrity, the heart that she's brought

1063
00:57:55,600 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: into something that can seem so stuffy and boring to

1064
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: so many people, the financial advisor space and truly just

1065
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: daunting and hard for a lot of people to figure out. Right,

1066
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: it's confusing. So to make finding an advisor simple less

1067
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: fraught with potential for error, Pam's done a great job

1068
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: with her site, wealth Ramp, making that happen. And actually

1069
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: we've incorporated wealth Ramp into the how to Money site,

1070
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: so if you're looking to find an advisor, you can

1071
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: go to how to money dot com slash advisor after

1072
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: listening to this, and we have a custom page made

1073
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: up because we so believe in this site that Pam

1074
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: has created to help people find a financial advisor. You know,

1075
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: there's a decent chance you're listening and a financial advisor

1076
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense for you, and that's something we talk

1077
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: about regularly here on the show. If that's the case,

1078
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: don't go there, or unless you just want to like

1079
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: monkey around and see what's going on, do that. But

1080
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: if a financial advisor doesn't make sense you at this juncture,

1081
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: which for so many DIY investors it just it doesn't,

1082
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: especially in those early years, stay away.

1083
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 3: But if you feel.

1084
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: Like you're at one of those junctures and a financial

1085
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: advisor makes sense for you, you want to hire a

1086
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: good one, not a bad one. You want to hire

1087
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: one of the best ones. And typically the best doesn't

1088
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: cost more, could cost less, like Pam said, which I

1089
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: think is so cool. So I don't know what was

1090
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: my big takeaway from this conversation. I love how she

1091
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: emphasized the reality that you, as the individual who's listening

1092
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: right now, you are the silver bullet. Yeah, you might

1093
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: need a coach, you might need someone in your corner,

1094
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: but you're the silver bullet. And you can't expect someone

1095
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: else to take the reins of your financial life and

1096
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: make home run decisions. You have to be involved, and

1097
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: there's just no way around that. And if you do try,

1098
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: if you do try to get out of managing your

1099
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: own finances, nobody's going to care about your money as

1100
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: much as you care about your money. And I think

1101
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: the likelihood of doing business with someone who isn't doing

1102
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: isn't operating in your best interest goes up exponentially. If

1103
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: if you take a side seat and you're not even

1104
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 1: in you're not even in the passenger seat, but you're

1105
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: like riding in the trunk or something like that. You

1106
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: don't want to be in that position when it comes

1107
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: to your finances. So, yes, an advisor can help a

1108
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 1: segment of the population, and you want to make sure

1109
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: you go about doing it the right way. But no

1110
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: matter what, you want to collaborate with that advisor. That

1111
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: was something that Pam said, and I love that way

1112
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: of thinking. Collaborate with not just say hey, this is

1113
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: your job, now make it happen. The collaboration is crucial,

1114
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: and so much of it really is about what your

1115
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: hopes and dreams and goals are and talking through that

1116
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: with an advisor and then making a plan to help

1117
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: you get there. So I hope you enjoyed this episode,

1118
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: and I hope for some of you is reassuring that

1119
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: I'm actually doing pretty good on my own and maybe

1120
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: I don't need to hire anybody, because I do think

1121
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: that's the case, that that's the position that a lot

1122
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: of How to Money listeners find themselves in. But again,

1123
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: of course, there are a lot of folks out there

1124
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: too who are like, I've made a lot of progress

1125
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: and now I want to pro to come in and

1126
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: help me professionalize this a little bit, all right. We

1127
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: will have links to everything that we mentioned up in

1128
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,439
Speaker 1: the show notes on the website at howdomoney dot com,

1129
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: including the new landing page howdomoney dot com slash advisor,

1130
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: where you can find a financial advisor that works within

1131
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: those wealth parameters. They're vetted by Pam, who you just

1132
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: heard on the show. Thanks so much for listening. Until

1133
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: next time, Best friend Out