Speaker 1: Episode to money and life lessons from a hospice doctor
Speaker 1: with Jordan Grammitt. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where
Speaker 1: you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, rice and liver
Speaker 1: with your life. Here your host Jen and Jill m.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and I am very excited about
Speaker 1: having the hosts of one of my favorite podcasts on.
Speaker 1: He says that about me whenever I'm on his show,
Speaker 1: so now I get to return the favor. It's Jordan Grammitt,
Speaker 1: better known as Doc G, the host of the Urn
Speaker 1: and invest podcast, which is so fun. I've only been
Speaker 1: able to be on his podcast once, but Jen's a
Speaker 1: frequent flyer. She's on very often on his podcast, so
Speaker 1: I don't know why it took us so long. But also,
Speaker 1: he's got a new book coming out which is fun
Speaker 1: and really amazing perspective. He's both in the personal finance
Speaker 1: world but still has his feet in the medical world
Speaker 1: as a hospice doctor. So really incredible blend of perspective
Speaker 1: here that we know you're gonna soak up. Yes, But first,
Speaker 1: this episode is brought to you by our Spending Symposium
Speaker 1: Audio flash sale. So you know, you may know that
Speaker 1: we had a summit last month that was super super successful.
Speaker 1: I am so sad if you missed it, I'm sad
Speaker 1: for you. But we have decided to do a flash
Speaker 1: sale of just the audio recording. So this isn't the
Speaker 1: full bundle that we offered during the summit, but is
Speaker 1: just the audio recordings of our eighteen interviews that we
Speaker 1: it with some of our favorite personal finance experts on
Speaker 1: how you can control your spending and optimize it to
Speaker 1: build an intentional and full, wealthy life. So if that
Speaker 1: sounds good to you, then you get a head to
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash audio and you can
Speaker 1: check out all of the sessions that we have the
Speaker 1: summit and get yours there. That's so exciting. It's basically
Speaker 1: like an extension of the podcast. If you've already binged
Speaker 1: all of us and you missed the Spending Symposium and
Speaker 1: now you want more, or you did listen, you didn't
Speaker 1: get the bundle, but I'm like, I need to hear
Speaker 1: it all hand. There it is slash sale. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you didn't want to splurge for the whole bundle, but
Speaker 1: you do want access to the sessions. This is great
Speaker 1: and it ends tonight. So if you're listening to this
Speaker 1: live on the day it comes out, no that it
Speaker 1: does end tonight. So yeah, let's get into this interview.
Speaker 1: I wanted to preface it was saying, sometimes we get
Speaker 1: emails from people that are not happy when we bring
Speaker 1: people onto the show that make how should I say
Speaker 1: a jill incomes that are higher than average? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they instantly see, oh, this person had an income that
Speaker 1: was higher than average. I cannot relate to anything they
Speaker 1: have to say. And we really intentionally bring people on
Speaker 1: here that have interesting stories, and it's not because and
Speaker 1: and never, no matter what their income is, the story
Speaker 1: doesn't have to do or isn't a product of the income.
Speaker 1: The point that we're trying to drive home is never
Speaker 1: because of the income. Any time that we have somebody
Speaker 1: on here that may make a higher income, they always
Speaker 1: have a messenger story that is outside of their income.
Speaker 1: So like we wouldn't have somebody on like, oh I
Speaker 1: make three thousand dollars and I paid off a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of debt in six months, you understand why
Speaker 1: they paid They paid off that much money, and that
Speaker 1: like nobody has to nobody wants to hear tips from
Speaker 1: them on saving money. We get that we don't want
Speaker 1: to hear it either, and so I just I I
Speaker 1: love Jordan's story finding yourself outside of your profession, because
Speaker 1: our entire goal is not to help you save three dollars,
Speaker 1: but to help you afford your dream life. And we
Speaker 1: fully believe that your dream life is not living on
Speaker 1: the beach in the Poconos three five days of the
Speaker 1: year like your your purpose Pokeos Do the Pokeonos have beaches? God,
Speaker 1: don't sy you? Well, I'm off the cuff, Okay, I've
Speaker 1: never been to the Poconos. It's not living on the
Speaker 1: beach all day or living in the mountains and perpetuity like,
Speaker 1: that's not the dream. The dream. If you unpack what
Speaker 1: you want and unpack it again and unpack it again,
Speaker 1: you can afford your dream life. If not right now,
Speaker 1: then you can make it a plan to afford it.
Speaker 1: And you don't have to be a digital nomad. You
Speaker 1: don't have to be a millionaire or multimillionaire like you.
Speaker 1: You can live that life. And I think that Jordan's
Speaker 1: story and his book really exemplify that and have nothing
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that he's a doctor. Well,
Speaker 1: we don't want to give it all away, the whole
Speaker 1: story of what he's about to share. Just know that
Speaker 1: none of our stories are exactly the same as anybody
Speaker 1: else's stories. Sometimes we can be motivated, sometimes we can
Speaker 1: be challenged, sometimes we can be encouraged. Sometimes we we
Speaker 1: receive empathy and compassion. So I don't even know where
Speaker 1: you'll find yourself in the midst of Jordan's story, but
Speaker 1: we are allowed out to cherry pick take what is
Speaker 1: valuable for you out of his story. Leave the rest.
Speaker 1: But please don't walk away just because he's a doctor
Speaker 1: and you might not be so much goodness in here.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, and without further ado, here is
Speaker 1: Jordan Grammitt. He is the author of Taking Stock, Hospice
Speaker 1: Doctors Advice on financial independence, building wealth, and living a
Speaker 1: regret free life. Those are do it Jordan's Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Frugal Friends podcast. We are happy to finally get
Speaker 1: you on this show. I am so happy to be here.
Speaker 1: Jen is a regular on my show, and what I
Speaker 1: always say is, this is Jen Smith from one of
Speaker 1: my favorite pie It was such an honor to be
Speaker 1: here today on Frugal Friends. Well, thank you for gracing
Speaker 1: us with your present, and I know that this is
Speaker 1: gonna be just a very rich, beneficial time. I was
Speaker 1: already sharing with you, Jordan, after having been on your
Speaker 1: show and post recording, you shared some really helpful insight
Speaker 1: words of wisdom with me that have been pivotal in
Speaker 1: my own kind of thinking about next steps for myself personally.
Speaker 1: So I can only imagine what our audience is going
Speaker 1: to receive from you and your story. So just to
Speaker 1: jump right in, you do have a background you in
Speaker 1: internal medicine. You still are a physician, so hence the
Speaker 1: doc G title on your podcast and how you're also
Speaker 1: known by Jordan and doc G. But I'm curious for
Speaker 1: you in your own journey, how did you discover the
Speaker 1: personal finance community? How did that end up crossing over
Speaker 1: from internal medicine to personal finance. We'll imagine that I
Speaker 1: had never thought about nor had any interest in personal finance.
Speaker 1: My father was a doctor and oncologist, a cancer doctor,
Speaker 1: and he died suddenly when I was seven. He had
Speaker 1: a brain aneurism at birst. It was completely unexpected, and
Speaker 1: at that time I idolized my father. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be just like him, So that kind of grew in me,
Speaker 1: this idea that I would be a physician like him
Speaker 1: in a sense I would walk in his footsteps, and
Speaker 1: it really became a rich sense of identity for me.
Speaker 1: You know, as a little kid, I had a learning disability.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of trouble learning how to read.
Speaker 1: So you think about this idea that I was struggling
Speaker 1: how to read. I was grades behind everyone else, and
Speaker 1: yet somewhere deep down inside, I identified with this fact
Speaker 1: that I'm going to become a doctor. I got over
Speaker 1: my learning disability. I went to high school, college, medical school,
Speaker 1: never thought twice about it. This is what I was
Speaker 1: meant to do. And I had an episode while I
Speaker 1: was a second year resident, that's the medical training, and
Speaker 1: I was alone in the intensive care unit in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night taking care of some very sick patients,
Speaker 1: and one of the patients went into respiratory distress and
Speaker 1: died unexpectedly, and I gave the add news to the family.
Speaker 1: Remember I'm a second year residence, so I'm still pretty
Speaker 1: new to being a doctor. Family comes into two in
Speaker 1: the morning. I sent them down. I say sadly, your
Speaker 1: family member died. They mourned a little bit, and then
Speaker 1: they left, and the next day I got phone calls
Speaker 1: from three separate women living in three separate states. Apparently
Speaker 1: the gentleman who died it was his new family that
Speaker 1: came in and he had three daughters who had no
Speaker 1: idea what happened, and I had to tell them over
Speaker 1: the phone that their loved one died. And it was horrendous.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was the worst thing I think I've
Speaker 1: ever gone through in my life. And it was the
Speaker 1: beginning of the breaking of my relationship with medicine and
Speaker 1: the disconnection with that identity that had kind of carried
Speaker 1: me throughout all those earlier years. I went to practice medicine,
Speaker 1: and there was a lot that was really good in it,
Speaker 1: but I found myself weighed down by paperwork, weighed down
Speaker 1: by fears of mail practice, weighed down by feeling like
Speaker 1: I was trying to help patients that I couldn't help.
Speaker 1: And I really got burned out and I started looking
Speaker 1: for a way out. And I have to admit, you know,
Speaker 1: I was born to a family where there was really
Speaker 1: good financial modeling, so my parents saved most of their
Speaker 1: money that they earned, they invested in real estate, they
Speaker 1: invested in the stock market. So I had all these
Speaker 1: great financial habits. I was building a path to financial independence,
Speaker 1: but I had no idea what it was. All I
Speaker 1: knew is I wanted to get out of medicine. I
Speaker 1: was tired of practicing. I was tired of the late nights.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know how to escape. I asked my accountant,
Speaker 1: I asked my financial advisor when can I retire? And
Speaker 1: they didn't really give me great answers. It was always like, well,
Speaker 1: you're not quite there yet. And in two thousand and fourteen,
Speaker 1: I was writing a medical blog about what it felt
Speaker 1: like to be a doctor, and I got a phone
Speaker 1: call from this guy named Jim Dolly. He is the
Speaker 1: writer of The White Coat Investor. He said, I just
Speaker 1: wrote a book and i'd love you to review it
Speaker 1: for your blog. He sent it to me. I read
Speaker 1: his book in one sitting, and within three hours I
Speaker 1: had epiphany, an epiphany one as I realized I was
Speaker 1: totally financially independent. I had enough money to stop working
Speaker 1: right there and then too. I felt like a weight
Speaker 1: was taken off my shoulders. For all of a day
Speaker 1: and then I had a panic attack because all of
Speaker 1: a sudden I had to confront this idea that this
Speaker 1: thing medicine, this identity that I had worn like a
Speaker 1: cloak over myself for all those years, that wisp of
Speaker 1: connection I still had to my father, who died when
Speaker 1: I was seven. I now had to think about leaving that,
Speaker 1: and if I did that, who would I be and
Speaker 1: what would be meaningful to me? And what would be
Speaker 1: my purpose in life? And that was the beginning of
Speaker 1: my deep dive into personal finance because I found it interesting.
Speaker 1: It was my deep dive into financial independence, and eventually
Speaker 1: this idea that I had to start working on a
Speaker 1: sense of meaning and purpose different from what I had
Speaker 1: thought it had been all those years. That's insane, I
Speaker 1: I STU. I very much relate to the wanting to
Speaker 1: hold onto like your father, because my dad died when
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, and there is this and I think
Speaker 1: anybody like to some degree, has something they're still holding
Speaker 1: onto from childhood that's like part of their identity, and
Speaker 1: that's not a bad thing. But coming to terms with
Speaker 1: that and and realizing like there is this whole part
Speaker 1: of me that I am ignoring or didn't realize I
Speaker 1: had because I have based so much of me on
Speaker 1: what I wanted as a child or what I missed
Speaker 1: out on as a child, or or etcetera, etcetera, which
Speaker 1: is is such a mind blowing experience when you come
Speaker 1: to that past in in your life, so like you
Speaker 1: and not everybody has you know, the financial wherewithal like
Speaker 1: at that time to to really make a change. But
Speaker 1: like what, I I love that your journey to like
Speaker 1: be coming a hospice doctor, which is like a lot
Speaker 1: about what your book is about a small part of
Speaker 1: what I love about you too, because I my father
Speaker 1: had great experiences with hospice doctors. They were the actually
Speaker 1: throughout his illness, the best doctors part of the entire process.
Speaker 1: So I just had like such great respect to you.
Speaker 1: But like, what was that transition like from that epiphany
Speaker 1: to figuring out okay, who? Like what's me now? Like
Speaker 1: what am I? Who am I? Now? Well? You know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because the fiscal transition was instantaneous. I went
Speaker 1: from a guy who thought he didn't have enough to
Speaker 1: a guy who knew he had enough within seconds. The
Speaker 1: emotional awakening, however, was way less smooth. It was two
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen when I read this book, and I had
Speaker 1: no idea what to do next. After that panic attack,
Speaker 1: I really pretty much became deeply depressed for a number
Speaker 1: of months, knowing that I wanted escape met sin, but
Speaker 1: not knowing how, and certainly not no knowing what I
Speaker 1: was going to escape too. So what I eventually did,
Speaker 1: as as opposed to throwing the baby out with the
Speaker 1: bathwater and just walking away from medicine, I did something different.
Speaker 1: I said, this is too big right now. So I
Speaker 1: started studying personal finance. I started studying financial independence. I
Speaker 1: started eventually writing daily about what this means to me.
Speaker 1: But then I also took a look at my work
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, I now have the financial means.
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to walk away from this identity yet,
Speaker 1: but let's get rid of everything that doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: suit me. Let's get rid of all the friction in
Speaker 1: my work life. I call it the art of subtraction.
Speaker 1: I just started subtracting things out of my work life
Speaker 1: because I had the financial means. So you know, I
Speaker 1: had my own practice, and I was getting calls all
Speaker 1: the time and running out to see patients at their
Speaker 1: homes on Sundays. I was like, I need to get
Speaker 1: rid of that. That's just too stressful. So I got
Speaker 1: rid of that. Then I was left with nursing homework
Speaker 1: and a by of what I call side hustles. Originally,
Speaker 1: when I started hospice work, it was kind of a
Speaker 1: side hustle, something to do on the side to make
Speaker 1: a little extra money. I said, well, hold on to
Speaker 1: the nursing home in the hospice work, but Garrett everything else.
Speaker 1: The nursing homework eventually started exhausting me too. I was
Speaker 1: getting called a two in the morning, the patients were
Speaker 1: incredibly sick. I said, okay, well this is causing friction.
Speaker 1: Let's get rid of that. So I did full time
Speaker 1: hospice work for a while, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: like doing full time hospice work. I don't like working
Speaker 1: actually and having a boss. So I eventually became a
Speaker 1: consultant and did part time hospice work where I only
Speaker 1: work nine to five Monday through Friday and no nights,
Speaker 1: no weekends, and I pretty much have the power two
Speaker 1: agree with or reject anything that the company suggests. Right,
Speaker 1: So now I have the power to make decisions based
Speaker 1: on what I think is important. But it was really
Speaker 1: an epiphany because as opposed to stepping away from that
Speaker 1: identity as a physician totally, what I realized through this
Speaker 1: art of substraction was that there was still something that
Speaker 1: I did identify with that really gave me a sense
Speaker 1: of purpose, which was doing this hospice work. And I
Speaker 1: knew that it was an important part of my sense
Speaker 1: of purpose because ultimately I realized that even if the
Speaker 1: company stopped paying me, I would probably still volunteer to
Speaker 1: do this work. And that's how I knew that this
Speaker 1: was germane to my identity. But by getting rid of
Speaker 1: everything else, I also opened up a lot of time
Speaker 1: and space to start looking at some of those other
Speaker 1: things that were important to me, and so I had
Speaker 1: to do some of that internal work to decide, well,
Speaker 1: who are you when you're not being a doctor. What
Speaker 1: I eventually came to is, I'm a writer and a
Speaker 1: podcaster and a public speaker. What I identify with as
Speaker 1: being a communicator, like I want to be the kind
Speaker 1: of person who generates these deep, important conversations that engage
Speaker 1: people and help them. And for the first time in
Speaker 1: my life, I could wear that identity so much more
Speaker 1: comfortably than the physician identity. I mean, I remember I
Speaker 1: went to medical school. I didn't have any really close friends.
Speaker 1: In medical school. I would go to the doctors lounges
Speaker 1: as a resident attending physician, and I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I fit in. Or I'd go to a party with
Speaker 1: my wife and I meet new people and I'd be
Speaker 1: ashamed to tell them what I did for a living.
Speaker 1: And it really hit me. It's like, why am I
Speaker 1: shameful about this? This is a really proud, important profession.
Speaker 1: And I came to the conclusion that that identity that
Speaker 1: I was wearing on my outside was not really matching
Speaker 1: what I was feeling on the inside. And it took
Speaker 1: realizing that being a communicator, which is fit me so
Speaker 1: much better where I started feeling good about things. And
Speaker 1: then when I started to go to conferences and meet
Speaker 1: other writers, bloggers, and podcasters and public speakers, I felt
Speaker 1: a connection to them that I had never felt in
Speaker 1: the physician world. It was like, Oh, I found my people.
Speaker 1: And for the first time in my life, I realized
Speaker 1: what true connection felt like outside of you know, your spousing,
Speaker 1: your kids, and your family. I mean, I'd always felt
Speaker 1: those connections but kind of those deeper connections based on purpose,
Speaker 1: you know, I had never had before Jordan's there's something
Speaker 1: really a lot of really important things that you're saying
Speaker 1: that I want to highlight because I think for the
Speaker 1: listener we could jump to, well, I'm not a physician
Speaker 1: and I don't have the financial means to be financially
Speaker 1: independent right now, and just kind of tune out. But
Speaker 1: so much of what you're saying is relevant to all
Speaker 1: of us. Identity. We all have identity. Sometimes our identity
Speaker 1: is rooted in the correct, accurate places. Sometimes it's not.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's incongruent with maybe who we truly are, and
Speaker 1: so there's a journey in finding that. The art of subtraction.
Speaker 1: I love that concept. I think that applies to all
Speaker 1: of us, whether we're financially independent or not, we can
Speaker 1: implement on this art of subtraction finding meaning and purpose.
Speaker 1: We all want that. Again. Sometimes we find meaning and
Speaker 1: purpose and the things that are in line with what
Speaker 1: we got a degree in. Sometimes it's not. And sometimes
Speaker 1: finding the permission to take that journey and really locate
Speaker 1: where meaning and purposes valuing your own life and capacities.
Speaker 1: I hear that coming out and what you're saying of.
Speaker 1: There was burnout, there was a lot of anxiety, there
Speaker 1: was fill in the blank, and you valued yourself enough
Speaker 1: and recognize your capacities enough to make some shifts within
Speaker 1: what you find meaning in, within your identity, within what
Speaker 1: it feels life giving to you, and what what you
Speaker 1: set your hands to can shift in drastic ways. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us need to hear that messaging
Speaker 1: over and over and over again that it's not just
Speaker 1: because of some set of specific circumstances that you have Jordan's.
Speaker 1: Everyone has the permission to shift in drastic ways what
Speaker 1: you're doing if you're really finding you know what. I know,
Speaker 1: I set my hands at this since I was thirteen
Speaker 1: years old, But my actual tasks can change, maybe some
Speaker 1: of where I find meaning and purpose can change. So
Speaker 1: whole smokes. It's like five massive bullet points that I
Speaker 1: just I'm taking with me, and I hope our listeners
Speaker 1: ken as well. One of the hypothesis of taking stuff
Speaker 1: the book I wrote actually is you shouldn't do it
Speaker 1: like me. I built my financial house and got myself
Speaker 1: financially in order, and only then did I think of
Speaker 1: meaning and purpose, and in fact That's why I think
Speaker 1: I became depressed and had a panic attack. Ideally, we
Speaker 1: start thinking of what I call purpose, identity, and connections,
Speaker 1: but it's that sense of meaning before and then build
Speaker 1: our financial structure around it. Yes, I was a doctor, Yes,
Speaker 1: in a sense, that was a place of privilege. But
Speaker 1: look no further than Jen Smith, co host of Frugal Friends,
Speaker 1: who started her career in acupuncture and did exactly that.
Speaker 1: She thought about purpose, identity and connections before she was
Speaker 1: financially independent, when I believe she had debt and was
Speaker 1: able to pivot even when she wasn't in that privile
Speaker 1: financial place and eventually lead to more wealth. And I'm
Speaker 1: using wealth loosely, not just more economic wealth, but probably
Speaker 1: more joy and satisfaction in what she was spending her
Speaker 1: time on a daily basis doing. And so I agree,
Speaker 1: And I'm the first to admit I come from a
Speaker 1: very privileged place to have gotten through medical school. They
Speaker 1: have had the money to afford it and to have
Speaker 1: a high paying job. But there are myriad examples of
Speaker 1: people who start using this knowledge at the beginning of
Speaker 1: their journey and then actually build a financial structure that
Speaker 1: supports that meaning and purpose and I think that's like
Speaker 1: a big takeaway. Yeah, absolutely, and it is something to
Speaker 1: to strive for. I think in whatever your financial goal
Speaker 1: is currently, the goal isn't too build X number of
Speaker 1: dollars of net worth or to save X number of
Speaker 1: dollars to become financially independent. The goal is to always
Speaker 1: discover who am I and how can I do more
Speaker 1: of what I love? How can I afford to live
Speaker 1: the life I love, that my partner loves, that my
Speaker 1: family loves, and like, nine times out of ten, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna You don't have to be a millionaire or
Speaker 1: a multimillionaire to live that. If you think about the
Speaker 1: life you want to live and who you are and
Speaker 1: unpack it and unpack it and unpack it some more,
Speaker 1: you can afford it way earlier than you think you can.
Speaker 1: This type of creativity because you're not talking about becoming
Speaker 1: financially independent and then quitting your job. You kept working
Speaker 1: you it allowed you to get creative in the way
Speaker 1: you pursue work. That is what financial security did for you.
Speaker 1: And that's really like the goal is not to quit
Speaker 1: working or retire early. It's too to be have this
Speaker 1: one thing taken care of and to be able to
Speaker 1: pursue the other things that you care more about. I mean,
Speaker 1: money is a tool and not a goal. And we're
Speaker 1: all stuck with the fact that we have a set
Speaker 1: amount of time on this earth. We don't we don't
Speaker 1: know how much right. Everyone is slightly different. Some people
Speaker 1: live longer, some people live less. But we have these
Speaker 1: time slots that we can't commoditize. We can't buy, we
Speaker 1: can't sell we change. We can't change them. Time passes
Speaker 1: no matter what. The one thing we might be able
Speaker 1: to change is what activities we place in those time slots.
Speaker 1: And so the idea of money is to use it
Speaker 1: as a goal to fill those time slots as much
Speaker 1: as possible with things that give us meaning and purpose.
Speaker 1: Here's the great thing. Sometimes you realize that you can
Speaker 1: fill yourself. You can fill those time slots with meaning
Speaker 1: and purpose before you have money. So a perfect example
Speaker 1: from my life how I did it wrong is it
Speaker 1: took me to become financially independent. I had to burn
Speaker 1: out and that when I discovered hospice. What if I
Speaker 1: had done more of this purpose and identity work when
Speaker 1: I had started my medical career and found hospice at
Speaker 1: the beginning, and maybe I wouldn't have practiced general medicine
Speaker 1: at all. I would have practiced hospice, and I would
Speaker 1: have made about a fourth of the income. But I
Speaker 1: probably would have never burned out. I probably would have
Speaker 1: enjoyed my life more. And so maybe I would have
Speaker 1: had to work another ten years, but I probably would
Speaker 1: have found that work so much more fulfilling. It would
Speaker 1: have changed my life, and it would have changed my trajectory. Now. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it's easy to look back hindsight and say, oh, I
Speaker 1: could have done this different or that different. But doing
Speaker 1: that work early might mean that you spend a lot
Speaker 1: more time early on doing things that have purpose and
Speaker 1: identity for you and delay your path to financial independence
Speaker 1: or retirement. But hey, that might be okay. You know,
Speaker 1: ask someone like my father, who died at forty that
Speaker 1: purpose and identity related activities that he did up into
Speaker 1: the age of forty. That was all the time he got.
Speaker 1: And thankfully he actually was very focused on hobbies and
Speaker 1: things he loved, and he loved the practice of medicine.
Speaker 1: So he did a great job of filling those spaces,
Speaker 1: the limited number of spaces he had, with things that
Speaker 1: were important to him. What you're saying here, Jordan is
Speaker 1: so interesting. Can can you talk more to both from
Speaker 1: the perspective of your own journey and your work with
Speaker 1: hospice patients about this whole I don't know if you'd
Speaker 1: use the word time hacking technique, but how you kind
Speaker 1: of modify this perception of time passing to be able
Speaker 1: to fill some of those moments with meaning. What do
Speaker 1: you have to say more on this topic? So, I
Speaker 1: think we need to be really thoughtful about time, because again,
Speaker 1: that's the one thing we can't change. It's pretty much
Speaker 1: said it. What we can do is change what activities
Speaker 1: we put in those time flots, and to a smaller extent,
Speaker 1: we can somewhat modify our perception of time. Which sounds
Speaker 1: like a funny thing, right, How do you modify your
Speaker 1: perception of time? But think about it. If I say
Speaker 1: count to a hundred and you do that, and then
Speaker 1: I say assume the plank position and also count to
Speaker 1: a hundred, I'm telling you that when you're doing in
Speaker 1: the plank position, it's going to feel like a lot
Speaker 1: longer than it is. Often, when we're doing things we
Speaker 1: don't like, we feel like time as slow as can be,
Speaker 1: and yet if we do something we love, time seems
Speaker 1: to fly. A favorite saying of mine from having children
Speaker 1: is the days are long and the years are short.
Speaker 1: The point is, at different times in our life we
Speaker 1: perceive time differently, and that's why when you're seven or
Speaker 1: eight years old, a full year feels like forever, and
Speaker 1: when you're forty eight, like me, the years seem to
Speaker 1: pass really quickly. So how does that play into our lives. Well,
Speaker 1: different people feel differently about time perception. So, for instance,
Speaker 1: at the beginning of my career, I really felt like
Speaker 1: I had all the time in the world because I
Speaker 1: felt deep down inside that unlike my father, I was
Speaker 1: probably gonna live to an old age. So I didn't
Speaker 1: mind when I was young grinding it out working long hours.
Speaker 1: I mean as a physician, especially as a young physician,
Speaker 1: I might work twenty four or thirty six hours in
Speaker 1: a row. The days lasted forever. I mean, it felt
Speaker 1: like forever, just from the beginning of residency the end
Speaker 1: of residency. But I was kind of comfortable with that
Speaker 1: because I felt like the days were lasting forever. I
Speaker 1: felt like I would live for a long time. For me,
Speaker 1: it made sense to work those days really fully and
Speaker 1: make as much money as I could and put it
Speaker 1: into the stock market and let it compound so that
Speaker 1: when I got older and time started to fly, at
Speaker 1: least then I wouldn't have to worry about working, because
Speaker 1: I'd have enough money to really have better control of
Speaker 1: those time slots. That's me, But then there are also
Speaker 1: some people who feel the exact opposite. There in their
Speaker 1: twenty maybe they think they're gonna die young, like my
Speaker 1: father actually thought he was going to die young, told
Speaker 1: my mom this when they got married. For someone like him,
Speaker 1: or someone who just really can't do the like working,
Speaker 1: you know, nine to eight every day, seven days a week,
Speaker 1: grinding it out. For those kind of people, they feel
Speaker 1: time fleeing immediately. Even if they're young, they feel they're
Speaker 1: wasting time by being in the office so much. For
Speaker 1: those kind of people, their path to financial independence might
Speaker 1: be something more with passive income inside hustles. Right, they
Speaker 1: may do some concerted effort to buy a bunch of
Speaker 1: real estate, or a concerted effort to build a podcast
Speaker 1: or sell digital products, and then that will allow them
Speaker 1: to have more free time. Now, their version of financial
Speaker 1: independence might be getting enough side hustle and passive income
Speaker 1: money every month to pay their bills, maybe not accruing
Speaker 1: a lot of long term wealth, but at least being
Speaker 1: able to pay their bills, so they have a lot
Speaker 1: more say over their time. So it all depends on
Speaker 1: how we per eve time. But if we think a
Speaker 1: little bit about that, we can then start building our
Speaker 1: life around that, both with meaning and purpose, but also
Speaker 1: with our financial independent structure, because in my opinion, there
Speaker 1: at least three main ways to hit financial independence, and
Speaker 1: every person goes out a little different. They're different things
Speaker 1: that are important to them which will help them decide
Speaker 1: which path to take. I appreciate how you're describing that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to look the same for everybody, but
Speaker 1: it's important to understand your own perspective and perception on it,
Speaker 1: and that that can be an indicator of how you
Speaker 1: want to go about your finances, making meaning of your time,
Speaker 1: finding purpose, getting at your identity, all of these things
Speaker 1: converging into one. I'm certainly one of the ones who
Speaker 1: wants to enjoy my life now and in the future.
Speaker 1: Thank you as somebody in the fire community who gives
Speaker 1: permission to people to live your life now and not
Speaker 1: on the other side, because that's what we read about
Speaker 1: so much, is to stalk away so much now to
Speaker 1: you know, like get rid of all of your debt
Speaker 1: and just like get financially fit percent now and then
Speaker 1: live your life um and then pursue entrepreneurship or whatever
Speaker 1: have you. But to give permission to have almost a
Speaker 1: balance too. But I hate viewing it like balance, because
Speaker 1: it is just to give permission to like live now
Speaker 1: because you don't know if you're going to get the
Speaker 1: years beyond forty, but you still want to live in
Speaker 1: a way that's wise and will not put a burden
Speaker 1: on your children when you're eighty. I mean there's a
Speaker 1: tension right between yolo you live only once, spend now
Speaker 1: and enjoy yourself and deferred gratification. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us don't spend any time actually thinking about
Speaker 1: that dichotomy. A lot of people either yolo all the
Speaker 1: time or they defer gratification all the time. And in
Speaker 1: reality and then practice, we need to be a little
Speaker 1: bit more thoughtful. If we make an error and go
Speaker 1: too much on one direction or the other, their consequences, right,
Speaker 1: So if you defer gratification too much, you never enjoy today,
Speaker 1: and God forbid you die young or something happens and
Speaker 1: you lose all your money, then you never really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, if you do the yolo thing
Speaker 1: and you spend all your money, you get to these
Speaker 1: later stages in life where you can't enjoy yourself, and
Speaker 1: God forbid, you might never retire. So we need to
Speaker 1: be real thoughtful about how much role both yolo and
Speaker 1: deferred gratification playing our lives. And the mistake is feeling
Speaker 1: that we have to pick one or the other. The
Speaker 1: truth of the matter is we have to toggle between
Speaker 1: them depending on where we are in life and what's
Speaker 1: important to us. And there's some really good ways to
Speaker 1: do that. You just have to be thoughtful about it.
Speaker 1: Mathematical formula that I can plug in to toggle that tension.
Speaker 1: Is there a formula that I can get, you know,
Speaker 1: like a rule variable? So here's the problem. There's no formula,
Speaker 1: but there's a way to be really thoughtful about it.
Speaker 1: So one of the questions I posed in this book,
Speaker 1: which I think will help you decide between those extremes,
Speaker 1: is are you afraid that you're gonna die too soon
Speaker 1: and never enjoy your wealth? Or are you afraid you're
Speaker 1: gonna live too long and die broke? If you can.
Speaker 1: You don't know the answer, right, No one knows what's
Speaker 1: going to happen to them. But if you can at
Speaker 1: least figure out which is your biggest fear, you can
Speaker 1: then start living today intentionally. So let me give you example.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, my father died at forty and he
Speaker 1: really believed he was going to die young. He told
Speaker 1: my mom this way before it happened. You know, my
Speaker 1: father didn't really save for retirement. I mean, he got
Speaker 1: life insurance for us, and he he actually encouraged my
Speaker 1: mom to go get a career on her own after children,
Speaker 1: because he's like, you never know if I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: here or not. But he turned down the first job
Speaker 1: out of his fellowship. He turned down an extremely prestigious
Speaker 1: position at a very high paying oncology group to stay
Speaker 1: at the university to do the work he loved, which
Speaker 1: was not nearly as stressful, didn't require nearly as many hours.
Speaker 1: But that's because he loved photography and he loved woodworking,
Speaker 1: and he was learning a new language when he died,
Speaker 1: and he was kind of taking advantage of the here
Speaker 1: and Now, my dad really did YOLO, and he didn't
Speaker 1: do much defer gratification, but that made sense because he
Speaker 1: died at forty and he wasn't going to live out
Speaker 1: all those years. He kind of had a premonition. If
Speaker 1: you feel like my dad did, then I tell everybody
Speaker 1: you should build a pathway towards financial independence. But let's
Speaker 1: say fifty percent of what you make each month goes
Speaker 1: to paying bills, so we can't do anything with that.
Speaker 1: So then we have the second. If you think you're
Speaker 1: gonna die young, maybe ten percent goes to financial independence
Speaker 1: and goes into a YOLO fund and you live it
Speaker 1: up like you use that money is what it was
Speaker 1: meant to be a tool. If you die young, then
Speaker 1: you lived really well up until the point you die.
Speaker 1: If you don't die young and you're wrong, well you've
Speaker 1: been saving the whole time ten percent, So you're probably
Speaker 1: not going to retire into your sixty five or even seventy.
Speaker 1: But you know what, your life has been pretty good throughout.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been spending money, enjoying yourself, taking those
Speaker 1: great vacations, and you can keep doing that all the
Speaker 1: way to sixty five or seventy when you retire. That's
Speaker 1: one extreme. The other extreme, Like me, I thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna live long, and I was afraid of running
Speaker 1: out of money. So for me, I didn't mind grinding
Speaker 1: it out and saving, you know, and putting ten percent
Speaker 1: in my yolo fund because I wanted a crew enough
Speaker 1: money so that I could put in the stock market
Speaker 1: and then it could compound and I could retire early
Speaker 1: and then have all the time and space I wanted.
Speaker 1: And so if you can kind of tie goggle between
Speaker 1: that question, it's not perfect. It's not going to say
Speaker 1: oh that, and probably there's trial and error, Like you
Speaker 1: might have to spend a year being a little more
Speaker 1: aggressive with your yellow and say, oh, well, maybe I
Speaker 1: want to be a little less aggressive because I want
Speaker 1: to retire a little bit earlier than that. Like, you
Speaker 1: can play around with it, but I've never found a
Speaker 1: better tool to help you start making that differentiation so
Speaker 1: that you can, in a sense, get the most best
Speaker 1: of both worlds. I appreciate this. It's not just making
Speaker 1: fear based decisions, but it's allowing our fear to inform
Speaker 1: us about what's important where we want to spend our time.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of liars that can inform the decisions
Speaker 1: that we make. But this does speak a little bit
Speaker 1: more to what we often talk about of just being
Speaker 1: curious with ourselves, not totally shoving those thoughts, concerns, fears aside.
Speaker 1: But what does this tell me about myself? How does
Speaker 1: this inform me about the way that I want to
Speaker 1: live now and in the future. I think it can
Speaker 1: be a really helpful way of perceiving this. Mm hmm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I absolutely love the again permission it gives us to
Speaker 1: be in the radical middle, Like, you don't have to
Speaker 1: be there. It's very uh easy to find influencers who
Speaker 1: are promoting extremes because that's what goes viral, but too
Speaker 1: actually have your own permission to get curious, to look
Speaker 1: into your fear and then like accept the part of
Speaker 1: the fears what makes you who you are, but not
Speaker 1: letting it dictate like the extent where you go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And the problem with extremes is extremes work for certain
Speaker 1: personality types. Right, So in a sense, it worked for
Speaker 1: me to be extreme on savings because I was just
Speaker 1: so head over heels at hitting financial dependence as quick
Speaker 1: as possible. But the reality is our financial plan has
Speaker 1: to be really personal, and to be really personal, it's
Speaker 1: really had had to go to the extremes because most
Speaker 1: of us aren't. We don't live in the extremes. Most
Speaker 1: of us live somewhere in that great big middle. But
Speaker 1: you know, rules and a lot of what people put
Speaker 1: out about personal finance, it's never gonna fit you exactly.
Speaker 1: So we have to take the best pieces of those
Speaker 1: things and then find a way to be really intentional
Speaker 1: and fit them into our lives. I love this idea
Speaker 1: that if we think enough about it, if we're intentional,
Speaker 1: we start considering things like purpose, identity, and connection, we
Speaker 1: can actually make a financial plan that is uniquely ours
Speaker 1: but then fits us better than any of the cookie
Speaker 1: cutter plans out there that you can, you know, spend
Speaker 1: a few cents on and buy a flow sheet and
Speaker 1: put in the numbers and know what to do. I
Speaker 1: think those are great starting points. I think we need those.
Speaker 1: But then I think we have to take that next
Speaker 1: step and start making them really personal. Yeah, do you
Speaker 1: know what else we can make personal and and have
Speaker 1: to be cookie cutter? And I am extremely passionate about
Speaker 1: the bill of the week. That's right, it's time for
Speaker 1: the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby
Speaker 1: was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid
Speaker 1: off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy
Speaker 1: to not have to pay that bill anymore. To Bill
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week, Jordan's.
Speaker 1: Every week, as you are familiar with, we ask our
Speaker 1: listeners or our guests to share with us their bill
Speaker 1: of the week, and I am excited to hear yours.
Speaker 1: So I have a bill squared. And this is actually
Speaker 1: to celebrate someone who has been incredibly supportive over of
Speaker 1: me over the years. I paid the bill at the
Speaker 1: United States Post Office to send an early signed copy
Speaker 1: of my book to one of my favorite people, Bill Youun't,
Speaker 1: who has been in the personal finance world, in the
Speaker 1: financial independence world for quite a long time and has
Speaker 1: always been incredibly supportive of me. So it's a bill
Speaker 1: squared because I paid a bill to send a book
Speaker 1: to a Bill and it's a chance for me to
Speaker 1: thank him for all the great things he's done for me. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. What is his blog? So he doesn't, well,
Speaker 1: he has a blog, but he's not that active. And
Speaker 1: it's The Financial Literacy Project is probably the best way
Speaker 1: to find him, and that's on Facebook, all right, the
Speaker 1: Financial Literacy Project. I knew I recognized that name. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that we have another bill person. It's
Speaker 1: always great to have a bill person. And then when
Speaker 1: they're liared bills, I don't know if we've ever had
Speaker 1: If you all listening, want to submit your bill of
Speaker 1: the week, if it is bill on bill on bill
Speaker 1: or just a single bill bill, cubed bill quad. We
Speaker 1: even get real crazy visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: slash bill, leave us what you got, and now it's
Speaker 1: time for lightning round. So today's lightning round question. We're
Speaker 1: all going to get a smidge vulnerable. What was the
Speaker 1: most life changing thing you've learned from someone? And I
Speaker 1: guess it could be like in a book, but like
Speaker 1: preferably in your life somebody who who somebody couldn't read about.
Speaker 1: It's not a mandatory stipulation. But so this for sure
Speaker 1: goes to my mother, you know, throughout childhood because I
Speaker 1: had a learning disability, because I think my father died
Speaker 1: because I was always very very hard on myself. You know,
Speaker 1: I was always really down on myself. I never felt
Speaker 1: like I was good at the things I tried. And
Speaker 1: one of the things I think my mom really taught
Speaker 1: me and is stuck with me is she always kind
Speaker 1: of said, you are enough already. And I think that
Speaker 1: was just such a big life lesson that even as
Speaker 1: an adult now, I find myself saying that to me
Speaker 1: when I feel down about something, like if I didn't
Speaker 1: accomplish something, or I didn't do it the way I
Speaker 1: wanted to do, or something big failed, or I'll turn
Speaker 1: that around if I'm about to walk into something that
Speaker 1: scares me. It's something that she kind of taught me
Speaker 1: and I try to teach my kids, and I think
Speaker 1: it's just had a profound effect on me as a person,
Speaker 1: and one a great thing to receive from your mom
Speaker 1: because that's such a pivotal relationship. So if she thought
Speaker 1: that of you, probably all the more able to take
Speaker 1: root inside of you. Yeah, certainly, And especially having kids
Speaker 1: like now, every day it's like, how can I show
Speaker 1: them that they're enough already, regardless of what tomorrow brings.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful for me. This is always tough for me,
Speaker 1: Like what what's the most What is your top favorite?
Speaker 1: I think there's so many collection probably for all of
Speaker 1: us and layers of things that form us. But one
Speaker 1: thing that has been pivotal comes from Oh, gosh, this woman,
Speaker 1: I'll shout her out, Bethan Miller. She is. It's hard
Speaker 1: to describe my relationship with her great friend, confident, mentor boss.
Speaker 1: She's my boss now I was her boss. It's a
Speaker 1: unique relationship. And she shared with me at one point
Speaker 1: or just maybe this admonition be kind to yourself. It
Speaker 1: was something she took from somebody else, and it was
Speaker 1: something she often repeated to me, and probably because she
Speaker 1: knew that I needed to hear it. I am definitely
Speaker 1: an achiever. I have high standards, high standard of responsibility,
Speaker 1: and will often sacrifice myself for step over myself for
Speaker 1: my own needs to kind of just like do the
Speaker 1: next thing. And this messaging of hey, be kind to
Speaker 1: yourself and to me, that really was congruent with freedom
Speaker 1: and permission and what would kindness towards another person look like, Hey,
Speaker 1: why don't you do that for yourself? Just so simple,
Speaker 1: but when I started to really grasp it, definitely pivotal.
Speaker 1: And for those I'm a counselor and social worker as
Speaker 1: my day job, and and I'm starting to hear some
Speaker 1: of my clients say that they're finding me on this podcast,
Speaker 1: which is a little bit alarming. I really talk about
Speaker 1: that in my day job. But they will also recognize
Speaker 1: this is a very common phrase that I will say
Speaker 1: to my clients at the end of every session. Be
Speaker 1: kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself. And it has
Speaker 1: been revelatory for me and hopefully for others as that
Speaker 1: message begins to take root. Mm hmm. Well, this is
Speaker 1: why I hate going last um because I read this before.
Speaker 1: I was the first one to read this, and I
Speaker 1: already my answer picked out, and so this is my
Speaker 1: original answer. It's this um, the social media like movement
Speaker 1: that says you are enough. I've been seeing these doodles,
Speaker 1: yeah right, Jordan, and I was thinking you went and
Speaker 1: I was like, dang it, um, But all these doodles
Speaker 1: and stuff that say you are enough, and I think
Speaker 1: seeing it over and over again, like, I too, am
Speaker 1: an achiever, and I think my worth is tied to
Speaker 1: the amount of money I can bring into the household
Speaker 1: and the success I can have. But actually having to
Speaker 1: stop when I get into those little tailspins, like the
Speaker 1: most recent one was literally this weekend, because I have
Speaker 1: you know our next like my next personal goal is
Speaker 1: for us to get a book deal and to look
Speaker 1: for an agent and and to pursue that. And it's
Speaker 1: something I've always wanted and just now feel like we're
Speaker 1: ready to pursue. And I had to sit I had
Speaker 1: to I was getting so worked up in it, and
Speaker 1: I had to sit down and be like, you are enough,
Speaker 1: whether you get this or not, whether you get the
Speaker 1: publishing house you want or not, whatever the royalty negotiation,
Speaker 1: however it goes, you are You are enough. You don't
Speaker 1: need this, like you are enough to your husband, to
Speaker 1: your child, to your friends. And that is something that
Speaker 1: keeps me. I am always a naturally ambitious person, so
Speaker 1: it's not going to keep me complacent, but it will
Speaker 1: keep me from having the tailspin of achievement failure sadness,
Speaker 1: because any ambitious person is going to fail, and you
Speaker 1: just have to fail with grace and fail forward. But
Speaker 1: if your entire identity is wrapped up in success and achievement,
Speaker 1: then that becomes a tailspin. And so it keeps me
Speaker 1: from that neg getivity. Just this phrase, you are enough.
Speaker 1: So how interesting all of our life changing things has
Speaker 1: to do with messaging to ourselves. That's really where it starts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I have a theory about life as a work.
Speaker 1: Through this book, I've really thought about happiness and what
Speaker 1: equates to people who generally feel contented and happy. And
Speaker 1: one of the conclusions I've come to is happy people
Speaker 1: generally tell themselves the stories about their lives that are
Speaker 1: magical regardless of what happened, and sad people tend to
Speaker 1: look at their lives and feel they got, you know,
Speaker 1: a bad shake at it. So people like who look
Speaker 1: at their lives and say, oh that you know, that
Speaker 1: person died and I lost that job and I was
Speaker 1: homeless and blah blah. But people say, but that was
Speaker 1: the magic of got what got me here today? Those
Speaker 1: people tend to be incredibly happy. So some of it,
Speaker 1: I think really is as you were saying, is this
Speaker 1: kind of stories we tell our self? Yeah. Absolutely, And
Speaker 1: I know that you have so many more of those
Speaker 1: stories in your book and I can't wait for people
Speaker 1: to read it. It's like one of these I think
Speaker 1: most important questions you can ask yourself is like, what
Speaker 1: do you want your obituary to say? And it's something
Speaker 1: that as somebody who does not work with the you know,
Speaker 1: people who are dead and dying you don't want to
Speaker 1: think about. But when you are constantly working with people
Speaker 1: who are going onto that next stage, you you get
Speaker 1: to think about it. And I think, if you don't
Speaker 1: want to work with dying people, at least read a
Speaker 1: book from somebody who comes from that. So um where
Speaker 1: can people find more from you and get your book?
Speaker 1: Et cetera. So the book is taking Stock a Hospice
Speaker 1: Actors Advice and financial independence, building wealth and living of
Speaker 1: grift free life. You can find it wherever you can
Speaker 1: find books, especially online. You're talking about Amazon, Barnes and
Speaker 1: Knowable Target books a million as well as you can
Speaker 1: go to Jordan Grummit dot com. That's j O R
Speaker 1: d A N G r u m et dot com.
Speaker 1: There you can find out all about the book, and
Speaker 1: there are also links to my really three main platforms.
Speaker 1: One is a medical blog which I don't write in anymore,
Speaker 1: but I've been writing since two thousand five about medicine.
Speaker 1: The link is there, as well as the link to
Speaker 1: my financial blog called diverse fi dot com, as well
Speaker 1: as the link to the Earning invest podcast. It's easiest
Speaker 1: way to get everywhere and learn my socials, or you
Speaker 1: can go to Earn and invest dot com if you're
Speaker 1: just interested in the podcast. It's a good podcast, great guests,
Speaker 1: great cast, especially that one that keeps talking amazing. Jordan,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing your perspective, both from
Speaker 1: your own life and the work that you do in
Speaker 1: a variety of spheres. I know that it has been
Speaker 1: inspiring to me and hopefully to our listeners. Thanks for
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you for having me on one of
Speaker 1: my favorite podcasts. That was definitely one of my favorite
Speaker 1: interviews that we've done, and half because Jordan is a friend,
Speaker 1: but also the other half is because I just when
Speaker 1: I listened to him, I feel like I'm living in
Speaker 1: a story, like I'm part of a story. He's very
Speaker 1: well spoken, and he does say is one of his
Speaker 1: enjoys in life is public speaking, and that certainly comes out.
Speaker 1: And even speaking from someone who doesn't know Jordan as
Speaker 1: well as you do, Jen me, I really really appreciate
Speaker 1: his perspective. Again, he stands out to me, and this
Speaker 1: is something I shared with him when we were on
Speaker 1: his show, because he didn't leave his field entirely and
Speaker 1: that really resonates with me. Yes, I personally find myself
Speaker 1: also in the personal finance space. But I also have
Speaker 1: not left my job. It doesn't always mean a complete
Speaker 1: departure from what we enjoy. Maybe what we grew up in,
Speaker 1: what what we were trained into. There's parts of it
Speaker 1: we might still enjoy. And and I think purpose and
Speaker 1: meaning and tasks and job assignments and roles can and
Speaker 1: do shift throughout life. Sometimes it's related to what we studied,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's a blend. So I think
Speaker 1: he just brings both from the medical field and the
Speaker 1: financial perspective and his own experience and the experiences of
Speaker 1: his patients, just so much good stuff. So anyhow, I
Speaker 1: could just say I resonate with what you say gen
Speaker 1: of really enjoying him, and I think we would do
Speaker 1: well to continue to soak up more content from him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I loved the all the all the permission, and
Speaker 1: it was separate from even him being a doctor. Like
Speaker 1: you can do that in your field, Jill, I have
Speaker 1: done it, like for me, is to just subtract act
Speaker 1: everything until you are only doing what you enjoy doing.
Speaker 1: But that's it's easier to do when you have like
Speaker 1: financial security, like I'm not financially independent. Absolutely not. I
Speaker 1: could not stop working, which is okay, because I love
Speaker 1: what I do. I don't want to stop working. Like
Speaker 1: I don't need to be financially independent. I don't make
Speaker 1: six figures like I'm not super wealthy. Neither does my husband.
Speaker 1: Like we don't make we're financially stable because we've worked
Speaker 1: towards making an income that affords us the lifestyle we want,
Speaker 1: and that's what we did, Like, you know, not super
Speaker 1: high incomes f my first class all the time. I
Speaker 1: don't even think that there's like an arrival either. I
Speaker 1: think I've hit already now, like in my mid thirties.
Speaker 1: I have hit this point of a pivot many times
Speaker 1: just in my career where I set my hands to
Speaker 1: do something. I did the thing, it was what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do, but then I kind of grew out
Speaker 1: of that and wanted to change in a shift, and
Speaker 1: then I set my hands to something new, and then okay,
Speaker 1: what's next. So I don't even think that even once
Speaker 1: we find the thing that feels life giving, that it's
Speaker 1: always going to look the same as it did when
Speaker 1: we even began it. And so there's freedom in that too,
Speaker 1: to keep discovering what are you good at, what is
Speaker 1: your experiences lent itself to, What knowledge do you now
Speaker 1: have and do you want to utilize it in a
Speaker 1: different way than maybe you did ten years ago. So
Speaker 1: it's also exciting glad to be along in the journey
Speaker 1: with you all. Thank you for listening. I hope this
Speaker 1: was as rich and beneficial to you all as it
Speaker 1: is to us personally. Many of you know that we
Speaker 1: also have a private community where we do monthly money challenges.
Speaker 1: Just like even more of this community and learning from
Speaker 1: one another. It offers accountability groups and so much more.
Speaker 1: And now we are wanting to be congratulating some of
Speaker 1: our members for big wins at the end of each
Speaker 1: of these episodes. So Emily, this is a shout out
Speaker 1: to you, she said. Since joining the Frugal Friends Club
Speaker 1: and working through the monthly challenges, I've made some huge
Speaker 1: mindset shifts. Now instead of running out to buy something
Speaker 1: I quote unquote need, I try to find a creative
Speaker 1: way to solve my problem or get what I need.
Speaker 1: Last month, we had family visiting and needed an extra
Speaker 1: sleeping accommodation. Instead of buying a bed we would need
Speaker 1: to sell when we move next year, or buying an
Speaker 1: air mattress we would hardly ever use. I asked in
Speaker 1: my local buy nothing group and was able to borrow
Speaker 1: a really nice air mattress from someone just down the road.
Speaker 1: This saved resources, time space in my closet, and money.
Speaker 1: Emily like, you're getting it, You've got it. I love
Speaker 1: that mindset. We love to hear. Congrats Emily. Thank you
Speaker 1: all for listening. If you want to check out our
Speaker 1: monthly challenge community, head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com
Speaker 1: sa ash Club and see what challenge we have coming
Speaker 1: up next. We love to gamify things and have fun
Speaker 1: with you all. Yes, we'll see you next time. By
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Syrian. So after talking
Speaker 1: with Jordan, I feel like I need to change my
Speaker 1: lightning round two. Sell them what they want, give them
Speaker 1: what they need. This is a phrase that I use often,
Speaker 1: and it's because traditional frugal living is not what we
Speaker 1: talk about, and so we almost are doing it backwards
Speaker 1: were the name of our show. But we get to
Speaker 1: talk about like this new brand of frugality every week
Speaker 1: that I love going. I love going up against the
Speaker 1: traditional definition of this word frugal and so kind of
Speaker 1: selling them what they think they want and then given
Speaker 1: them what they need. Is that a life changing thing
Speaker 1: that you've learned or is it a life changing thing
Speaker 1: you're trying to make up in for others, just like
Speaker 1: a marketing technique. It is. I didn't come up with it, though,
Speaker 1: so I can't say that I'm trying to change people
Speaker 1: with it. I don't remember where I heard it, but
Speaker 1: it has changed my life. Sometimes we don't know what
Speaker 1: we need until we get tricked into it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm here to manipulate you into everything you don't think
Speaker 1: you want, but I think you want. I didn't know
Speaker 1: I needed Eric. I kind of got tricked into my
Speaker 1: life with him. But it's the best thing ever. What
Speaker 1: a great trick. Now. I really thought that he was
Speaker 1: just going to be someone I dated for like ten days. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then you know quick bait, which ended up being
Speaker 1: married for ten years and counting. So yeah, that you
Speaker 1: don't He really did sell me what I wanted and
Speaker 1: gave me what I needed. Yeah, it changed all of
Speaker 1: our lives. Great. Yeah, and he's still he'll still doing it,
Speaker 1: still doing it. He is master manipulators. You two, that
Speaker 1: is how you have a spiral staircase up to your roof.
Speaker 1: Maybe the two of you are in cahoots. You both
Speaker 1: be telling me what I want, giving me what I need.
Speaker 1: I don't know. We were just talking about the new
Speaker 1: studio backdrop while you were in the other room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so knows what's coming for me next. I'm excited.