1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My name 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Time to venture into the Vault. This episode originally aired 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: on July and it is about artificial gravity. Yeah, this 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: is a really fun episode. Uh, and it's and I 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: think it's a great one to to re air here 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: as our last Vault episode of But it gets into 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: various models for how we could conceivably carry out artificial 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: gravity aboard us some sort of an artificial vessel. Now, 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: why did you think this would be a great last 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: Vault episode of the year. Is that that you expect 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: to be floating around the end of December or what? Well, yeah, 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: I guess you know your New Year's Eve celebrations, everybody's 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: going to feel a little floaty, feel yourself or maybe 15 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna feel more drawn to the year. I hope 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: everyone's gonna feel a little lighter. You need some centrifugal anchoring. 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: That's the other thing. People are may very well feel 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: like they've been spun around in some sort of human 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: concoction and uh, and they're struggling to to keep their 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: feet underneath them. That's going to be the new trendy 21 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: hangover cure. Just get inside your high efficiency washing machine. Absolutely, 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, this is a great episode. We get to 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: talk about a number of sci fi properties. We talk 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: a little bit about two thousand and one of Space Odyssey. 25 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: Uh so, hey, everyone, enjoy and we'll catch you on 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: the other side. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind 27 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey you, welcome to 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. And Robert, I know that many 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: times you must have imagined what life is like in 31 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: a zero gravity environment, right, Oh yeah, I mean you 32 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: can't help you, You can't help thinking about it as 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: you read about space exploration and and engage with with 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: various science fiction scenarios. What would it be like to 35 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: to float free, uh, inside of a capsule? Yeah, and 36 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: people obviously imagine the very simple stuff, right, you know, 37 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 1: floating from one end of the room to the other, 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: not being able to walk normally, maybe fear that you 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: would experience some motion sickness. You know, many, many people 40 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: who go to space, I think at least half I 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: think is the number, experience some kind of space adaptation problem, 42 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: space sickness once they arrive that might go away after 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: some time, or you tend to focus on the amazing 44 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: and the horrible ideas, like you know, for instance, how 45 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: fun it would be to drink orange juice and space 46 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: by chasing the globs around the capsule, or the more 47 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, they're definitely horrible or or almost horrible scenarios 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: such as, of course, uh, you know, the bone mass 49 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: density loss, as well as the problem of trying to 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: poop in a toilet. Right, I thought you were going 51 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: to immediately go to using the bathroom. I was immediately 52 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: going to go to the bathroom, and then I thought 53 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: I should I should reference like the really pivotal problem 54 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: here as opposed to just the one that is difficult. No, 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: I mean, going to the bathroom isn't necessarily a big problem. 56 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: You know, you it might not sound all that appealing 57 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: to essentially poop into a vacuum cleaner, but our bag. 58 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people maybe that's something they've 59 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: always wanted to try out. It's not necessarily a horrible idea, 60 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: but it will definitely be horrible. I don't know if 61 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: you make a mistake in this process That's where the 62 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: horror stories kick in, is when the the the super 63 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: expensive space toilet malfunctions. The same thing, of course, is true, 64 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: well not exactly the same thing. A similar thing is 65 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: true of you mentioned chasing orange juice globules with your 66 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: mouth to hunt them down. But eating in space, I mean, 67 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: we depend on gravity so much for a lot of 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: our eating activity. Keeping food in a container, I mean, 69 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: you just can't compose dishes in space. You've gotta again 70 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: kind of like you poop into a bag. You've got 71 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: to eat out of a bag um, or have something 72 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: that's relatively solid and doesn't have crumbs that are going 73 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: to get everywhere. I mean, can you think about trying 74 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: to salt your food in space? You sort of need 75 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: to like salt into a bag and shake it up 76 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, or just have like a hot sauce 77 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: packet that you you add into your own mouth afterwards. 78 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: I feel like I could get buying a number of 79 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: like bagged curries and whatnot. Yeah. Now, of course, another 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: thing Astronaut's report about zero gravity environments is that your 81 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: sense of taste is all jammed up, Like you can't 82 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: taste things the way you normally would and part of 83 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: this probably has to do with the fluid redistribution in 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: your body that leads your head and upper body to 85 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: swell because you don't have the normal gravity pulling all 86 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: the fluids in your body towards your feet, which your 87 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: body is naturally trying to overcompensate for. Another gravity tidbit 88 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 1: that that I always find fascinating is that I believe 89 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: Mary Roach pointed this out in their book A Packing 90 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: for Mars. If you're in a microgravity zero gravity environment, 91 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: your bladder doesn't fill up from the bottom up would 92 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: feel like in the center right, It fills like all 93 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: around towards the very center. So you don't realize that 94 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: you need a urinate, uh, typically until you're absolutely about 95 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: to burst, because because we have evolved to sense the 96 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: to detect that the need for our own urination on 97 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: a gravity invite, in a gravity environment, on a on 98 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: a world with gravity, we are creatures of gravity. It 99 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: reminds me of a piece of terminology I haven't really 100 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: thought of since elementary school. But back then, there would 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: be a thing that would be like a p quote emergency. 102 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: Remember the emergency? Oh yeah, well, I mean I guess 103 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: if you have kids there's such a thing as an emergency. Yeah. 104 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: I have a five year old son, and so he 105 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: has these where it's like suddenly it's super dire, like 106 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: you have. He has to run outside off the front 107 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: door is closer to him, uh, you know, grabbing himself 108 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: the whole time and going I gotta go pee and 109 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: then immediately paying Um. This is the kind of thing 110 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: adults tend not to experience, unless perhaps you go into space. Right, 111 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: So those are the the less dire things now you 112 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: already alluded to, of course, the deterioration of body tissues, 113 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: loss of bone density, loss of muscle mass, and and 114 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: and all the different negative consequences that happened to the 115 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: body under zero gravity or microgravity conditions. These things can 116 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: really stack up, and it's not a trivial effect. Astronauts 117 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: have to exercise constantly when they're in microgravity environments. They've 118 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: got to spend hours a day working out in these 119 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: weird machines just to try to offset some of the 120 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: damage that's being done to their bodies by the lack 121 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: of gravity in their environment. And it's still not enough. 122 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: I mean, they still come back to back to Earth 123 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: messed up, and they need time to re reacclimate. Hopefully 124 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: they will eventually come back to something like full health. 125 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: But but it's not good for you. Yeah. And and 126 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: of course one of the problems is that uh, astronauts 127 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: want to go back to space, so they're not necessarily 128 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: going to be as forthcoming about the about how they 129 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: drinks at the feeling. Yeah, I guess that is a 130 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: thing to worry about. You'd hope that they'd be accurately 131 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: reporting how bad it is, but maybe they just they 132 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: want to get back up there. Yeah, I mean that, 133 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: that's that's what what I've I've heard is that generally speaking, 134 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: and you don't go to space then and you're you're like, oh, 135 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: that's enough of that. I'm good. An astronaut a person 136 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: it's worth their whole life to do this for not 137 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: even just to do this, but for the chance of 138 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: doing this. Of course they're gonna want to go back. 139 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: So my question is, why don't the people who run 140 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: the I S S. I don't know whoever they are, NASA, 141 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: I guess maybe not NASA space agencies around the world. 142 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: Why don't the people who run our space stations just 143 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: take advantage of the Holtzman effect and put some gravity 144 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: plating in there so that you can walk around like 145 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: a normal Earth humans. A. Yeah, so yeah, you're so 146 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: you're drawing in both Star Trek and Done here, but 147 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: they're they're both prime examples because they're straight into the blender, 148 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: right because this is uh, this is one of the 149 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: key aspects of our science fiction when it comes to 150 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: gravity or lack of gravity and space. They're basically three models. 151 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Either you're gonna you're gonna try and go hard science 152 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: and have some sort of an artificial gravity scenario like 153 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: some of the realistic scenarios we're going to discuss in 154 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: this podcast. You're gonna just go you know, micro gravity 155 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: zero G and have people floating around, which of course 156 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: can be difficult from a special effects standpoint. Or you're 157 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: gonna go space wizards. Yeah, you're just gonna go magic 158 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: artificial gravity and just say hey we let's Star Trek. 159 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: We have gravity plates in the floor. Of course there's gravity. Uh, 160 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: it's the in in in in Dune. You have the 161 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: the Holtzman effect generated by the Holtzman field generator, and 162 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: Herbert never explain exactly what it was or how it worked, 163 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: but it allowed for the generation of anti gravity, faster 164 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: than light travel, personal shields, artificial gravity on ships, you know, 165 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: all the things you need to sort of go ahead 166 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: and establish your interstellar uh empire and then tell the 167 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: stories you want to tell. You know, I'm okay with 168 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: that be because in lots of science fiction stories, essentially 169 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: they're trying to tell a character drama or it's a 170 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: fantasy story set in space. I don't need all science 171 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: fiction to be hard science fiction, but I really do 172 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: appreciate hard science fiction that tries to take the physics 173 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: that we know seriously. This does not, But that's okay, 174 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, that's doing its own thing. Yeah. I mean, 175 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: Herbert had areas that he was definitely going to focus 176 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: in on, such as ecological issues, philosophical, religious, cultural issues, 177 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: and of course this the drama that is especially seen 178 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: in the first book. So I kind of slack. Yeah, 179 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: I'm fine with some magic anti gravity. Now, in terms 180 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: of sci fi properties that do take it really seriously. 181 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: What are what are a few films that come to mind? Well, 182 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: of course, you you immediately think of two thousand one 183 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey. Now that's got multiple spacecraft. There's a 184 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: space station and there's a spacecraft that both use something 185 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about later in the episode, rotational 186 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: UH structures for centripetal force driven or centrifical, centrifugal or 187 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: centripetal force driven artificial gravity scenarios. Also, there is a 188 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: good artificial gravity ship in the Martian UH, and I remember, 189 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: I think there's one in a space station, and Interstellar 190 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: isn't there? Yes, I do believe, I remember the spinning situation. 191 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: And I also want to point out James S. A. 192 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: Corey's Expanse series, both the books and the sci fi 193 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: TV show, which which does I think a really good 194 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: job of going after from near future interplanetary culture and technology. 195 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: And it's also the only sci fi property that I 196 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: can think of that that actually explores one of the 197 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: anti gravity schemes that're gonna we're gonna be discussing today. 198 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: Linear acceleration. Well, linear acceleration, I can see why that's 199 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: limited because it has sort of limited applicability if you're 200 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: going to try to be real about like it only 201 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: works in certain types of ships doing certain types of 202 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: things to a certain extent. We can we can chat 203 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: about this this this later. Okay, we'll correct me. Well, 204 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's not really correction. But I 205 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: think one of the problems is that linear acceleration model 206 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: calls for a spaceship that is not a seagoing vessel 207 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: transported into space, because, as I said before in the program, 208 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: I think a lot of our science fiction are sci 209 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: fi ships are essentially seagoing vessels and tales of seagoing 210 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: vessels and seagoing captains, uh, taken from Earth and transposed 211 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: into space. I mean that was basically Gene Roddenberry's a 212 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: whole deal with Star Trek that it was was the 213 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: Master and Commander books that he wasn't No, it was 214 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: a different one. Um. I can't remember the series offhand, 215 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: but anyway, he was inspired by by literary tales of 216 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: of of adventurous humans at sea. Uh no, well maybe 217 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. Well I guess is yeah, from Hell's Hired. 218 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: I stabbed at the right. But it's it's more difficult 219 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: with linear acceleration because you have to have to take 220 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: that concept of an Earth vessel and you really have 221 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: to literally turn it on its side. You have to 222 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: think instead of a ship going from port to port 223 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: and stopping, you have to think about long continuous journeys. 224 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: But we'll get into all that in a bit. Okay, Well, 225 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: I guess we should first just take a real quick 226 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: look at what is the problem with artificial gravity, with 227 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: generating gravity and space. Why can't you just do it? Well, 228 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: I mean, so, gravity is something that is a field 229 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: generated by generally we think of it as mass. It's 230 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: generated by the stuff in the universe, energy and mass, 231 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, much more by matter that has mass. So 232 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: we all know that objects that have mass have a 233 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: mutual attractive force. They tend to attract one another. And 234 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, we've known this for a long time. It 235 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: was the laws of gravitation were to a certain extent 236 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: well explained by Newton in the seventeenth century, and he 237 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: basically described the laws of gravitation in a way that 238 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: that makes sense for most of the stuff we're going 239 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: to be looking at, for planets, for space ships, for 240 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: things like that. Now. Off later, Albert Einstein revolutionized our 241 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: understanding of what gravity is by telling us that gravity 242 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: is the curvature of space time, and that sort of 243 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: matter tells space time how to curve, and that the 244 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: curvature of space time tells matter how to move right 245 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: So let's start with mask because I think that's the 246 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: that's that's the essential part. That's that's a pretty easy 247 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: to understand here. So everything with mass, from a dust 248 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: moat to a star, exerts a gravitational pull. The strength 249 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: of the poll, however, increases with mass and proximity to 250 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: the object. So a smaller object can only attract another 251 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: small object of it's nearby, but a large opect can 252 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: pull in objects from across the vast distance. Right, And 253 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: this is kind of this is key to the structure 254 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: much of the structure of our of our universe. I mean, 255 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: this is how accretion occurs with little specks of space 256 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: dust and gas forming together and snowballing into larger cosmic bodies. Yeah, 257 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: I mean, this is how our solar system was created. 258 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: Was the coalescing of objects by the force of gravity. 259 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: Things are attracted to each other, eventually becoming stars, planets 260 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, And then alert Einstein's general theory of 261 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: relativity comes along and propose that the gravity is a 262 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: curve in the fourth dimension of space time. And there's 263 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: proof to back him up. Given sufficient mass, an object 264 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: can cause an otherwise straight beam of light to curve 265 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: astronomers called this effect gravitational lensing. Yeah, this was shown experimentally. 266 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: It was one of the first big experimental proofs of 267 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: Einstein's theory of relativity. Is that you could see light 268 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: from stars passing behind the Sun bending as it came 269 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: right around the Sun. So you know, if you could 270 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: have a solar eclipse and shield out the light from 271 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: the Sun, you could see stars in the background being 272 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: warped by the Sun's gravity as the beams of light 273 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: passed close to our Sun. Yeah. And similarly, the less 274 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: gravity there is, the slower time passes. And this is 275 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: a phenomenonme is gravitational time dilation. This is this is 276 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: the less key to what we're talking about. But it 277 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: just drives home like the place of gravity, uh in 278 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: our universe. Yeah, it sounds this is one of those 279 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: things that sounds like fantasy, but it's absolutely true. And 280 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: you saw that. We mentioned the movie Interstellar earlier. There's 281 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: actually there are a couple of great scenes and the 282 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: demonstrate this where they go down to a planet with 283 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: an incredibly high gravitational pull and uh, while they're down 284 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: there on the planet, much less time passes for the 285 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: people on the planet than passes for people in orbit 286 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: farther away. Yeah, As a physicist Paul Davies points out, 287 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: time runs a little bit faster in space than it 288 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: does down on Earth. It runs a little faster on 289 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: the roof than it does in the basement, and that's 290 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: a measurable effect. Then's the basics on gravity. But then 291 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: there's also this additional area of quantum gravitation and the 292 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: idea that that there is a there's a hypothetical particle, 293 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: the graviton, which in theory could cause optics to be 294 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: attracted to one another. Yeah, and this would be the 295 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: mediating particle of the force of gravity, in the same 296 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: way you've got like the electromagnetic force, the mediating particle 297 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: there is the photon. Hypothetically you'd have some mediating particle 298 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: delivering the force of gravity. But we've never seen gravitons 299 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: in the universe. Right. This is this whole hypothesis comes 300 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: together because quantum theory, to refresh, addresses how the universe 301 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: works at the smallest subotanic levels, and the resulting model 302 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: here does not explain gravity. So gravitons and the theory 303 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: of quantum gravity is an attempt to reconcile general relativity 304 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: with quantum theory. It's a basically an attempt to patch 305 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: up a hole in the standard model of particle physics, 306 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: which cannot explain gravity. Now, the last time I read 307 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: seriously about gravitons was a few years ago. I wonder 308 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: if any recent experiments in our particle colliders have have 309 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: shed any light on that. I mean, our physicists now 310 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: thinking gravitons are more likely or less likely. So well, 311 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: we certainly don't have any definitive proof on the matter yet. 312 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: But I guess for the purposes of our discussion here, 313 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: since we don't have proof of gravitons, we can't really 314 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: come up with a scheme to employ them or manipulate 315 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: them in some way that would give us artificial gravity. Yeah, so, 316 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: I guess are the point of our bringing up gravitons 317 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: is that you can't just wave a magic wand and say, 318 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: ah ha, gravitons will be the thing we use to 319 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: create artificial gravity in space. I mean, we don't know 320 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: if they exist. If they do exist, I'm not sure 321 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: anybody has a coherent idea of how they could be 322 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: harnessed to provide artificial gravity in space. It just seems 323 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: like I don't know what is So if they're generated 324 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: by mass, would you not need mass to generate them? Yeah, 325 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: I could. I looked around in my research and I 326 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: couldn't find any, like, any real theories about how gravitons, 327 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: if they exists, might be utilized in this fashion. And 328 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not aware of any science fiction that 329 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: explores the possibility, but I would love to know about it. 330 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: I think when it does, it's more just the kind 331 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: of it's the handwaving magic. Right. So we come back 332 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: to mass, then yeah, you could, I guess, have a 333 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: spaceship that's as massive as the Earth, and then that 334 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 1: would have that would give you the gravitational pool you need. 335 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: That's not exactly a terrible idea, and it's not unexplored. 336 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: I mean there have been these ideas, for example, in 337 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, stellar engineering projects that say, hey, so let's 338 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: say we want to travel to another solar system, wouldn't 339 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: it be easier instead of trying to build an arc 340 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: ship to take us there, to see if we can 341 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: build a structure around the Sun that will reflect some 342 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: of its radiation and allow us to steer the movement 343 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: of the entire solar system. Oh yeah, yeah, I just 344 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: move the solar system. Yeah, so like the solar system 345 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: becomes our spaceship. You can build these things called a 346 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: hypothetical structure called a Scatow thruster. Essentially, it would just 347 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: drive the sun. Yeah. That actually features into No Surprise 348 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: and Ena in Banks book, but I'm not going to 349 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: say which one because it's kind of it's kind of 350 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: a spoiler. Okay, but it's one of them. Leave it, 351 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: leave it there. Yeah, So that is one idea though. 352 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: If you wanted to travel through space on an object 353 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: that has Earth gravity, you could just take Earth with you. 354 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: Of course, it wouldn't really make sense to say, well, 355 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: I want to build a spaceship that generates Earth gravity 356 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: through natural mass generating effects, because then you would just 357 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: be building a spaceship the mass of Earth. Right, And 358 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: if you can do that, then, uh, I mean you're 359 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: already you're already a pretty powerful civilization. I'm not sure 360 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: where you would rank on the Cardassi of scale, but 361 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: you'd be you'd be potent. That'd be definitely a Cardassi 362 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: of one, maybe a Cardassi of two. All Right, so 363 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: we've talked about these scenarios involving natural gravity and and 364 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: the idea of manipulating natural gravitational forces. Luckily we're not 365 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: We're not forced to contend only with those. We can 366 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: also deal with artificial gravity, not in a magic sense, 367 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: but in a but in a real sense. Yeah, and 368 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: and this way, there are ways to generate artificial gravity 369 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: that are not hypothetical or speculative at all. I mean, 370 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: this is totally easy, standard settled physics, because one of 371 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: the insights of modern physics is that gravity is in 372 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: fact indistinguishable from acceleration. When you're being pulled toward a 373 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: planet's center and the planet has a mass such that 374 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: it generates a surface gravity of nine point eight meters 375 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: per second per second, which is what Earth's surface gravity is, right, 376 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: or whether you're accelerating through space at an acceleration rate 377 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: of nine point eight meters per second per second, the 378 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: effect you experience is exactly the same. You can't tell 379 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: the difference between these two situations. And so knowing this, 380 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: we could turn the idea of acceleration to our advantage. 381 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: And that's where our first model comes into play. But 382 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: first we're gonna take a quick break than alright, we're back. 383 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: So The first model of artificial gravity we're going to 384 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: discuss here is the one that I alluded to earlier 385 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: and discussing the expanse, and one that I think by 386 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: and large, bab, I cannot think of another single science 387 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: fiction property that employs this as their artificial gravity on 388 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: a spaceship. But yeah, linear acceleration, I can't really think 389 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: of many that do. But so, what's the basic idea here, Robert? 390 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: All Right, So, if you've ever written on a roller 391 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: coaster and felt yourself plastered to the back of the seat, 392 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: then you've experienced some of the power here. If you 393 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: were in a fighter jet and you were, you know, 394 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: traveling at a sufficient speed to pull you multiple g s, 395 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: you're you're also experiencing this as you're pushed back into 396 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: the chair. Right, So, if you can imagine being in 397 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: that fighter jet and you're being pulled back into your chair, 398 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: except instead of going back into your chair, you put 399 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: your feet on the chair, put your head in the 400 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: direction that the fighter jet is going, and the acceleration 401 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: rate of that fighter jet is nine point eight meters 402 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: per second per second, it would suddenly feel a lot 403 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: like it feels to stand on the ground. Right, Imagine 404 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: a skyscraper as a rocket ship. Imagine it blasting through 405 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: space at such a speed that the G force uh 406 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: equaled the pull of Earth's gravity on the internal environment. 407 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna read a couple of quick quotes from 408 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: James S. A. Corey's Uh First Expanse novel, because I 409 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: believe that these really capture what we're talking about. So 410 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: he's describing the Donager space ship here quote. Like all 411 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: long flight space craft, it was built in the office 412 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: tower configuration. Each deck one floor of the building. Ladders 413 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: or elevators running down the axis. Constant thrust took the 414 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: place of gravity. Now there's also a Mormon generation ship 415 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: in the book that uses both linear thrust and a 416 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: rotating wheel, which we'll get into, and this is the 417 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: description for it. Each compartment within the massive rings was 418 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: built on a swivel system that allowed the chambers to 419 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: re orient to thrust gravity when the ring stopped spinning 420 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: and the station flew to its next work location. Okay, 421 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: So by describing these ships with floors like an office building, 422 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: what you what you should really picture is like you've 423 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: got a skyscraper and it's flying through space with the 424 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: top of the skyscraper as the front the nose of 425 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: the ship, and all of the floors are where your 426 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: feet would be towards the back of the ship, and 427 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: your head would be facing the front of the ship. 428 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: It's taking the holes like Starship Enterprise situation and turning 429 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: it sideways. If you imagine the Starship Enterprise flying in 430 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: such a way that the top of the ship is 431 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: the front of the ship. I realized this gets complicated 432 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 1: when you're talking about outer space. But you're you're taking 433 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: and in this part of the problem. Like we we 434 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: understand the movement of things in our situational uh positioning 435 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: in a gravity rich world, and when we try and 436 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: take it out of that, it's it's kind of hard 437 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: to picture some of these, uh these situations. Right. But yeah, 438 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: So if this is taking place in space, you would 439 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: be able to generate a force towards the floor that 440 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: simulates Earth gravity. Now, this would this would have some complications, 441 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: I'm imagine because in order to perfectly simulate Earth gravity, 442 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: maybe you don't care how perfect it is, but if 443 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: the goal was to perfectly simulate Earth gravity, you would 444 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: need to be constantly accelerating at nine point eight meters 445 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: per second per second, that's a lot of constant acceleration. 446 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: You're always going that much faster. Yeah, I mean we 447 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: we see the required propulsion at work when a chemical 448 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: rocket creates enough for us to counter this gravitational pull 449 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: and achieve escape velocity. But they're only achieving it from 450 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: a matter of seconds or minutes. For our spaceship here 451 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: are theoretical spaceship, our office building on its side, you'd 452 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: need something more constant. So, just to refresh on the 453 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: g's here. Standing on the Earth, you'd experience one G 454 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: in free fall, saying an elevator or the vomit comet, 455 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: you'd experience zero G. At two G feel twice as heavy. 456 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: So you'd need a spaceship capable of propelling you fast enough, 457 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: like you said, to exert a constant one G. Yeah. 458 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: So one of uh, the sources we turned to for 459 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: this was a wonderful too thousand seven book Artificial Gravity, 460 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,239 Speaker 1: edited by Giles Climate and Angelie Buckley, And there's an 461 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: article in there by Buckley, Climate and William Pulaski of 462 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: NASA's Johnson Space Center, and uh, they point out that 463 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: a spaceship could in theory accelerate for the first half 464 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: of a Mars journey, then decelerate on the second half, 465 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: and in doing so maintain one G and reach Mars 466 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: in two to five days, depending on the distance. I 467 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: mean that would be you'd have to have incredible power, yes, 468 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: incredible thrust to like a powerful fuel to accelerate that much. Also, 469 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: I'm how did so do they explain how you do 470 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: the flip over? You'd have to be accelerating one g 471 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: the like half the way there, and then you have 472 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: to be decelerating at one G the other half of 473 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: the way there, which means I guess you'd have to 474 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: flip the spaceship around so that the floors stays the floor. Yeah, 475 00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: Or you'd have to have some sort of like an 476 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: intern habitat that's like a capsule on that rotates. Or yeah, 477 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: I guess you could have a spaceship where the floors 478 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: and ceilings are both can both work as floors, right, 479 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: And of course the distance here involved not to go 480 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: into the Mars opposition details here too much, but the 481 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: maximum distance between these two planets is two hundred and 482 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: fifty million miles with the Sun between the two. So 483 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: I guess that's not doable in two to five days. 484 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: The yeah, I would assume you would not try and 485 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: make the journey there unless I mean, but but if 486 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: you're achieving speeds like that, then you know, maybe you'd 487 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: go you'd go for it. But that the average distance 488 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: is more like one forty million miles and the closest 489 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: possible distance is a tantalizing thirty three point nine million miles. 490 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: But anyway, that's this is the basic Yeah. But yeah, 491 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: you would need to have, uh, some pretty awesome power 492 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: at your disposal, so awesome that I believe in the 493 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: Expanse books like they basically can't be the authors who 494 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: publishes as as James S. A. Corey, Uh, they had 495 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: to sort of create their own fictionalized propulsion breakthrough to 496 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: make that possible. Here's where you need the magic in 497 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,239 Speaker 1: this version. Yeah, instead of having magic gravity plating, you 498 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: have magic propulsion. And I guess is the case with 499 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: a lot of sci fi Like you, there's a certain 500 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: place you you want human civilization and or alien civilizations 501 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: to be at, you know, to be able to discuss 502 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: them and look at the ramifications. But yeah, we don't 503 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: have all the steps worked out about how we'd get there. 504 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: There's there are certain breakthroughs that we need to take place, 505 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: and you could explore them and try and come up 506 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: with some sort of uh, you know, complex of physics, 507 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: space theory, or you could just you know, put a 508 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: posted note there and and maybe write magic on it. Yeah. 509 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: Even in a lot of so called hard sci fi 510 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: or mostly hard sci fi, you know, you've got like 511 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: a list of steps in how something is achieved, and 512 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: most of the steps are something that's scientifically rigorous, but 513 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: one of the steps in the middle is like, here's 514 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: a magical element. I mean, it's kind of like a 515 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: lot of speculative properties that I enjoy. Sometimes there'll be 516 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: something completely ridiculous, uh, something completely magical, But then you 517 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: discuss all the real world ways it might play out. 518 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: Like one example that comes to mind is a World 519 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: War Z you know, the Zombie book. Not so much 520 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: of the movie, but the book looked at it's some 521 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: possible ideas for how this would play out, like culturally 522 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: and politically, without really getting bogged down in the fact 523 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: that zombies are are kind of a dumb I can't 524 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: actually exist. But it's like, roll with me. Zombies are real. 525 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: Let's discuss how this might work. I want to defend 526 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: zombies just a little bit. There are different types of 527 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: zombie scenarios, and some some are much more plausible than others. 528 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: Reanimated corpses, no, but you know, rage zombies, some kind 529 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: of weird virus Okay, maybe, okay, all right, yeah, I 530 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: mean we have rabies. I mean we don't have rabies, 531 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: but there is you never know, alright, so you're probably wondering. Okay, 532 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: we've established how this would work with talked a little 533 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: about the sci fi, but what kind of work has 534 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: actually gone into testing it. Well, there've been at least 535 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: a couple of experiments. The European Space Agency e s 536 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: A experimented with this in nineteen eighty five on the 537 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: Space Lab D one. Now I couldn't find an image 538 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: of it, but I'm assuming it's it's the same sled 539 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: or one similar uh that was used in the Night 540 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: one experiment where they were, you know, messing with the 541 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: nineteen eight one. It's basically this this chair on a 542 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: if you okay, imagine a short train track that you 543 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: could fit in a room and then you have a 544 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: chair on it. I'm glad, I'm glad you've provided this picture. 545 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: But this is crazy. It is. It looks crazy. There's 546 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: so there's a imagine a little train on a little 547 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: train car and there's a chair on it, and the 548 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: chair swivels, and you have somebody strapped into the chair 549 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: with a bunch of you know, electronic dude dads connected 550 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: to them, and then they would, uh, they would essentially 551 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: like fly back and forth on this little train track 552 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: with the with the seat swiveling along the way. It's 553 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: a very Terry Gilliam can traption, isn't it? Yes, it 554 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: it does. It looks very Terry Gilliam. Now they tried 555 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: this out and it peaks speeds. It only provided point 556 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: to G and according to a Clemon company, the threshold 557 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: for the perception of linear acceleration in humans is on 558 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: the order of point zero zero seven G, and the 559 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: threshold for humans in space seems to be more like 560 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: between somewhere between point twenty two and point five G. Yeah. 561 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: I've got some notes about that later on, about what 562 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: exactly would be tolerable as artificial gravity, But I don't know, 563 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe you're getting to it right now. So 564 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: you the the idea here is that you wouldn't necessarily 565 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: have to have one full G in order to counteract 566 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: some of the worst effects of microgravity. Yeah, it kind 567 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: of comes down to what are you looking to do? 568 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: Are you looking to to to counteract the effects of 569 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: microgravity to a certain extent to like just get you 570 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: there a little bit or have like a perfect Earth simulation, Right? 571 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: Do you want to, um, you know, awaken a coma 572 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: pace a board your spaceship and trick them into thinking 573 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: that there's still on Earth. Like that's a tricker scenario. 574 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you could do it by telling them 575 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: that they're they're they're nauseous or something. I don't know, Um, 576 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: they have they have some sort of illness, but you've 577 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: got an inner ear problem. Gravity is normal. Yeah, As 578 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: a Clement company point out in the article, quote, perhaps 579 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: it is not necessary to perceive artificial gravity at the 580 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: cognitive level for it to be effective as a countermeasure. However, 581 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: for purposes of defining the comfort zone of astronauts and 582 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: artificial gravity environments, whether it's a rotating spacecraft or an 583 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: onboard centrifuge, it would be extremely useful to determine the 584 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: threshold value of perceived artificial gravity. Unfortunately, there are no 585 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: plans to put a human centrifuge on board the I 586 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: S S, at least in the near term. So when 587 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: it comes to G's um you know, Mars is point 588 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: three seven six GS, Neptune is one point fourteen. G's 589 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: Saturn is one point of seven GES. Guess they're not 590 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: going to be standing on the surfaces of Neptune or 591 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: but we have stood on the surface of the Moon, 592 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: which is point one six Geese and Clement and Company 593 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: point out that when astronauts visited the Moon, they had 594 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: trouble figuring out which weight was up and down. They 595 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: didn't they didn't perceive a four point five degree floor 596 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: tilt in their landing unit during Apollo eleven. Yeah, can 597 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: you imagine that, Like you're you're on a slope, but 598 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: the gravity is so weak you can't you don't get 599 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: that you're on a slope, like you can't feel it. 600 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: And then when they're bouncing around out there on the 601 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: lunar surface. Uh, there were a lot of stumbles, and 602 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: a number of these stemmed from the inability to evaluate 603 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: terrain slope. Yeah, again, like you can't tell the difference 604 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: between uphill and downhill. It's hard to imagine. Yeah, and 605 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: yet I mean the moon gravity is perfectly enough to 606 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: keep you tethered to the surface of the Moon. You're 607 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: not gonna fly away or anything, right, Yeah, You're not 608 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: gonna leap up and achieve you know, escape velocity. Now, 609 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: there is another study, and this is actually a proposed 610 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: study currently, and this is the NASA funded turbo lift, 611 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: the turbo lator. Yeah, and this, Uh. The idea here 612 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: is to combat the effects of micro gravity by accelerating 613 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: an astronaut literally had one G for what a round 614 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: of one second, and then it's rotated uh degrees to 615 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: prepare for one G deceleration. It's kind of like being 616 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: shaken up in a cocktail shaker, uh, and only your 617 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: legs always point in the direction of the shake it. 618 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: It would, theoretically, according to the proposers here, uh, feel 619 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: like bouncing on a trampoline. So this would be a suggestion, 620 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: not for a habitable environment or from a for a spaceship, 621 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: but maybe for essentially some kind of exercise machine. Is 622 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: that what we're thinking? Yeah, that that's what That's what 623 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm getting from this is that said quote. The intermittent 624 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: loading is intended to reduce or eliminate the physiological deconditioning 625 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: in a comprehensive multisystem manner. It would be it would 626 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: be a situation where like, hey, Joe, I know you've 627 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: got stuff to do on the spaceship, but it's time 628 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: for your your one G treatment. You need to climb 629 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: in the capsule here, and we're gonna you back and 630 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: forth for however long you're treatment last. The flipping bullet. Yeah, Now, 631 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: this does indicate that there are these two very different 632 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: schools of thought about what to do when generating artificial gravity. 633 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: I guess we sort of alluded to this a minute ago, 634 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: but you still should keep in mind this question of 635 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: what is the goal. Is the goal just to have 636 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: an environment you can go into often enough to offset 637 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: some of the negative health effects of being in space. 638 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: Is it just sort of like tiny jim for your 639 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: body to stay healthy, or are you actually trying to 640 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: create an environment where some of the effects of Earth 641 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: gravity are simulated for normal living purposes, so you can 642 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: salt your food, so you can go to the bathroom 643 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: without pooping into a vacuum cleaner. Now, I do have 644 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: to say that, um, I can't help but think that 645 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: this the jumper scenario, this turbo lift scenario. I could 646 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: see it working if you had somebody in a hibernation 647 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: state or some sort of suspended animation, like maybe you 648 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: load their their corpsicle to one of these and shoot 649 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: them back and forth to to keep their need to 650 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: avoid any debilitating effects involved with their space travel. But 651 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: of course for that to work, you have to have 652 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: some sort of hibernation um a technique worked out, and 653 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: that's a whole that's a whole another podcast topic. Now, 654 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: in terms of complications with this linear model here of 655 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: artificial gravity, you of course you have to be in 656 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: motion there. You have to be able to produce that effect. Uh, 657 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: you have to always be on your way somewhere or 658 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: taking a roundabout way to continue the effect. But I'm 659 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: not sure if that's such a detriment, because after all, 660 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: space is big. The distance between planets, that's certainly between 661 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: stars is vast, and there's plenty of room to to 662 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: run around out there. Well yeah, I mean if you 663 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: actually want to travel to say, another star system, and 664 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: not just say to Mars, but if you want to 665 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: go to Alpha Centauri or wherever. I mean, as much 666 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: acceleration as possible is good. Uh, it's still I guess 667 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: I have the question of about what the propulsion idea is, Like, 668 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: how do you constantly generate that much acceleration? Exactly? Yeah, 669 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: I guess with some models you have these ideas of like, 670 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: you know, kind of like beamed propulsion back from Earth 671 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: where you line you know, you like you line up 672 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: this payload delivery of energy. Um, that's right. That's what 673 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: we have in the Blindside, the novel that you just 674 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: finished reading and I'm currently reading. Yeah. I mean, the 675 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: whole thing about this is this seems like a method 676 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: that would work and would be very interesting. Um, but 677 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: I guess it's just waiting on some kind of abundance 678 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: of energy and propulsion technology and the than the means 679 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: to use it or the opportunity to use it. All Right, Well, 680 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: that's linear acceleration for you. That's one model. We're going 681 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: to take another break, and when we come back, we're 682 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: going to dive into the much more popular artificial gravity scheme, 683 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: the one that you see in the movies, And then 684 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: of course is the spinning habitats, the Taurus, the standard 685 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: tow us, the double Taurus. All these different models were 686 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: of course talking about uh, the manipulation of centripetal force. 687 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: Than all right, we're back. So, Robert, you've seen two 688 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: thousand one of Space Odyssey. Oh yeah, one of my favorites. 689 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: And so if you've seen that movie, you've seen at 690 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: least a couple of different versions of the design for 691 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,399 Speaker 1: artificial gravity that exploits centripetal force or centrifugal force. I'll 692 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: talk about the difference between them in a minute now. 693 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: One example in the movie is this giant space station 694 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: called space Station five V for five, and it's shaped 695 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: like a wagon wheel. And the other is this round module. 696 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: It's a spherical module within the spaceship that how controls 697 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: in the movie, the spaceship the Discovery one, which is 698 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: the one that's on the way to I think it's 699 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: Jupiter in the movie and Saturn in the book, Is 700 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: that right, I believe? So yeah, this is the one 701 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: that's like really round in the front and long in 702 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: the back, right, and so uh, in this crew module 703 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: in the Discovery one in the movie, you see a 704 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: gravity like effect pulling passengers to the floor along the 705 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: equator of this compartment. So we can see the effect 706 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: in this one scene where Frank Pool the astronaut is 707 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: jogging in full circles around the inside wall of the sphere, 708 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: So he's jogging laps, but he's not jogging horizontal laps. 709 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: He's jogging full circular orbital laps. Yeah, i'd say it's 710 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: one of it's it's one of you. Not like the 711 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: greatest sequence in a science fiction film. It's just so 712 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: beautiful and and and and and thought provoking. So there 713 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: are multiple ways that you could set something like this up, 714 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: and I'll explore a few of those models in a minute. 715 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: But the basic idea is that you create a spinning 716 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: structure within your spacecraft, and the outside edge of the 717 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: spinning environment becomes a floor that pushes up against your 718 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: feet the same way the ground pushes up against your 719 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: feet as you are attracted steadily towards the center of 720 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: the Earth. So, in other words, it simulates the effect 721 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: of gravity. Now, like linear acceleration that we just talked about, 722 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: rotation based gravity also relies on the pseudo force sensation 723 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: generated by inertia to simulate gravity. It's your body's inertia 724 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: feeling like the gravitational force that pulls you towards the 725 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: center of the Earth. Now, in the case of the 726 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: spinning model, this is known as centrifugal force or the 727 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: centrifugal pseudo force. Now there are two terms that are 728 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: easy to get confused here, centripetal force and centrifugal force. Uh. 729 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 1: Centripetal forces is the real force in physics, and this 730 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: is really there two sides of the same coin. So 731 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: centripetal force is something that you will notice if you've 732 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: ever done the old experiment. You know, the thing you 733 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: do when you're a kid, is you get a bucket 734 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: of water and you spin it around in a vertical 735 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: circle so that the top of the circle your buckets 736 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 1: upside down, but the water stays in the bucket, doesn't 737 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: fall out like it would if you just hell the 738 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 1: bucket upside down, and you you realize intuitively something's going 739 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: on there about the force of your swinging motion with 740 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: your arm. For some reason, it being at the top 741 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: of a circular motion keeps the water in the bucket 742 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: in a way that just turning the bucket upside down 743 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 1: in the same place wouldn't. And so what that is 744 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: is the centripetal force of the bucket pushing down on 745 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: the water to hold it in while the inertia of 746 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: the water flying in this circular motion wants it to 747 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: fly off in a tangential pattern, uh, and a tangent 748 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: going straight out from the path it's flying along. So 749 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: you can think about it sort of like anytime something 750 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: is is flying around in a circular motion, say a 751 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: space station is orbiting the Earth, what it really wants 752 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: to do is keep traveling in a straight line forever. Right, 753 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: So if you've got the I s s it's orbiting 754 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: the Earth, what what it wants to do if there 755 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: were suddenly no Earth is just travel straight ahead, so 756 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: it just key going off into space. But what the 757 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: Earth does is it exerts a certain amount of force, 758 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: pulling that the space station down towards its center of 759 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: gravity and curving its path. And the same thing happens 760 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,959 Speaker 1: when you've got an object swinging in a circular path 761 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: but contained by some kind of physical structure or force 762 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: like your arm and the bucket holding the water in place. Now, so, 763 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: so the centripetal force is the inward force that pulls 764 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: everything toward the center of motion in a circular pattern. 765 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: The centrifugal force sometimes referred to as a pseudo force 766 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: because it's really just inertia in a moving reference frame. 767 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 1: That's the apparent force that acts on an object moving 768 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: in a circular path to push it outward from the 769 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: center around which it rotates. And this would be taking 770 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: the place of the gravity that actually pulls your feet 771 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: towards the ground on Earth. Now you can also feel 772 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: the intuitive physics of this on your body, just in 773 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: your imagination. If you've ever done the carnival ride where 774 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: you get on the what is it the cyclotron, the 775 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: circula gravitron, it's the thing where they put you in 776 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: a cage and your back is against the wall, and 777 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: it's this big disc where everybody's back is against the 778 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: inside wall of the disk, and then it starts spinning 779 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: you around very fast, and suddenly you're just pinned to 780 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,919 Speaker 1: the back wall. You can't lift your arms up. Uh, 781 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: And it's it's all this force that's that wants to 782 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: throw you off into space, but in fact there's a 783 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: wall they're stopping you, so instead of being thrown off 784 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: into space, you're just pinned to the wall. Yeah, that's 785 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: a carnival death machine that I've probably only written once, 786 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: but but I have written a similar device and that 787 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: is of course the like the pirate swinging ship. You know, okay, 788 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: it has a similar similar effect as the bucket scenario 789 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: if the pirates swinging ship or to go all the 790 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: way around, not the on I ride. But oh interesting, 791 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: uh well it's also yeah, this the centripetal centrifical force. 792 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: It's the same thing also that allows you in a 793 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 1: roller coaster to go around a loop. Roller coasters that 794 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: have loops because the force that's keeping you, you know, 795 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: you want your body wants to continue on a straight 796 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: line as it gets to the top of the loop 797 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: and just be flung off up into the sky. But 798 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: instead you've got that roller coaster. They're holding you, so 799 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: instead you're pressed down into your seat, which is actually 800 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: straight up from the ground. Um. And so the same 801 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: thing you can imagine could happen in space. If you've 802 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: got a space environment and you're on a thing that's spinning, 803 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: you know that you will experience some kind of force 804 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: pinning you to the outside wall of that spinning structure 805 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: in the same way as as the bucket of water 806 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: and the loop to loop on the roller coaster. So 807 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: then the question is how do you generate the right 808 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: amount of force there. Obviously, you don't want your the 809 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 1: inside of your space station to be like the gravitron 810 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: ride where you can't even lift your arm and you're 811 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: just pinned to the floor. Uh, you want to simulates 812 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: something within the realm of one g or one of 813 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: these fractions of one g that seemed like they might 814 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: be a tolerable living environment or at least help offset 815 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: some of the effects of micro gravity. And so you 816 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: calculate how much force you generate towards the floor of 817 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: a spinning structure by multiplying the radius of the structure 818 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: by the speed of the rotation squared. So your two 819 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: main variables are going to be how fast is the 820 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: thing spinning around and how big is it? And since 821 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: you're multiplying these together, the bigger the structure is and 822 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: the faster it rotates, the more force there is towards 823 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: the floor. And unlike the problem I just mentioned about 824 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 1: being pinned to the floor, actually mostly the problem that 825 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,720 Speaker 1: we're going to experience is how to generate enough force, 826 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: not how not to generate too much. Alright, so we 827 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: have the basic principle here. We've already mentioned some of 828 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: the sci fi scenarios. But what are some specific proposals. Well, 829 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: you've got some basic shapes that you could think about, 830 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: and then I'll talk about how those shapes have been 831 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: proposed in the history. Now, one thing you could obviously 832 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: look at is something like the two thousand one space station, 833 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: which is like a wheel. So you'd have a donut, 834 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: and inside the doughnut it's hollow, and people are walking 835 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: around on the outer wall of the inside of the 836 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: hollow donut. This would be the taurus shape or the 837 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: wheel shape. And we tend to gravitate towards this because 838 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: everyone loves the wheel, like the wheel is such a 839 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: such an excellent human symbol. There, of course we want 840 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: to see it in space, uh, you know, magnifying our 841 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: glory as a species. Yeah, well there's that. There's there's 842 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: the flying saucer. You know, we love to see a 843 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: wheel that way. There's the passage in Ezekiel about seeling wheels, 844 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: wheels and wheels. Now, there's also sort of the cylinder 845 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: model right where you you'd have the same effect where 846 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: you'd be moving on the outs or the inner wall 847 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: or sorry, now here you'd have a similar effect where 848 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: you'd be walking along on the inside of the outer 849 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: wall of a spinning cylinder, and that would be a 850 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: lot like the effects caused by the wheel. Another thing 851 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting is the idea of something like 852 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,800 Speaker 1: a bolus or a or a tethered counterweight, where instead 853 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 1: just imagine putting yourself in a box and then tying 854 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 1: that box via a rope to an equally weighted counterweight 855 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: out in space, and then you just set the two 856 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,760 Speaker 1: of you rotating against one another. This would also generate 857 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: a force toward the outer floor of the box. The 858 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: you know, the wall facing away from the rope would 859 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,439 Speaker 1: become the floor. Okay, it's less elegant. And the other 860 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,320 Speaker 1: thing about it is that it is called a bolus, 861 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: which brings to mind various things flying out of either orifice. Right, 862 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,840 Speaker 1: So you're saying, like, if you had to perform the 863 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: Heimlich maneuver on a fellow astronaut, they might cough up 864 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: a bolus of food they've been choking on while you're 865 00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: in the bullus. Yeah, and then of course that all 866 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: so read. Uh. I think I've read in like space 867 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,479 Speaker 1: manuals about uh using the toilet in space, they refer 868 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: to the fecal bolus really, So the less you have 869 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: to think about the fecal bolus or the traditional you know, 870 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: bolus of food that you're your your your tongue helps 871 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,359 Speaker 1: form before you swallow. Yeah, you don't want to think 872 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: about that when you're spinning around in a capsule in space. 873 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: No you don't, Robert, No, you don't at all. Okay, 874 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: So let's look at some specific examples of proposals for 875 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: for spinning artificial gravity stations in spacecraft throughout the years. 876 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,760 Speaker 1: And here I'm gonna cite a lot from a specific 877 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: chapter from that same book you mentioned earlier about artificial gravity. 878 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: This would be the chapter on the history of artificial gravity, 879 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 1: and that's again in that book by U by Clement 880 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: Bookley and Pulaski. So one of the earliest known designs 881 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: for a space station with artificial gravity created by rotation 882 00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:00,439 Speaker 1: comes from the Russian physicist Constantin L. Tilkowski, who lived 883 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,879 Speaker 1: from eighteen fifty seven and nineteen thirty five. And Tiolkowsky 884 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,160 Speaker 1: was an interesting dude. He was one of the pioneers 885 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: of rocketry theory, but he also was one of those futurists, right. 886 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: He was one of these people who became obsessed with 887 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: the idea of colonizing space. He wanted humans to colonize space. 888 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,359 Speaker 1: He wanted Earth domination of the galactic neighborhood. And one 889 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: interesting story I found is that he at one point 890 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: built a big centrifuge to test out the effects of 891 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: acceleration or artificial gravity on the human body. But he 892 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: didn't use human test subjects. He tested it on chickens 893 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: and made the gravity chickens rest in peace anyway. In 894 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: his manuscript, the title of which translates to free Space 895 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty three, Tiolkowsky sketched a hypothetical spacecraft and 896 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: designed how you could spin a spaceship to give it 897 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,799 Speaker 1: artificial gravity on the outward facing walls. Another pioneer who 898 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: would be Sergey Kralv, one of the great minds behind 899 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,760 Speaker 1: the Soviet space program. He was a really vicious guy, 900 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 1: and in nineteen fifty nine he was designing a trip 901 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,840 Speaker 1: to Mars in nineteen fifty nine via a spacecraft called 902 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: the Heavy Interplanetary Manned Vehicle. And no, this was nineteen 903 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 1: fifty nine. This was before Uri Gagarin's first spaceflight in 904 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one. No human had been to space at 905 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 1: this point, and this guy's like, all right, we gotta 906 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,680 Speaker 1: get this Mars trip on the road. Um. And anyway, 907 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,880 Speaker 1: this uh, this spaceship that he was designing, the h 908 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,240 Speaker 1: I m V. It would have a mass of seventy 909 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,479 Speaker 1: five tons, a length of twelve meters, and it would 910 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: have this cabin that was six meters in diameter. That's 911 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: not a whole lot, but he he did imagine that 912 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: he would be able to use this ship as a 913 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,600 Speaker 1: rotating artificial gravity environment. UM. We can talk later about 914 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: exactly how feasible very small rotating artificial gravity environments are. 915 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: The short answer is not very um. So coral Lev's 916 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: during were severely limited by material and political constraints, and 917 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: during the nineteen sixties he was forced to focus more 918 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,440 Speaker 1: on attempting to sort of match Apollo scale space projects UH, 919 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,600 Speaker 1: and to work on weapons programs of course, and so 920 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: he also ended up proposing a tethered capsule based artificial 921 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: gravity experiment, but it was never carried out and coral 922 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: Lev died in nineteen sixty six and the project was 923 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: shut down. But I mentioned this, this tethered system, the bolus. Right, 924 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: you have two things attached by a tether and you 925 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 1: rotate them against one another to see if you can 926 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: generate a force. That kind of system was actually tried 927 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: in space by the Americans. Now, if you'd asked me 928 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,399 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, I think I would have thought 929 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,800 Speaker 1: that that nobody had ever carried out large scale artificial 930 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,520 Speaker 1: gravity experiments on or at least on the human scale 931 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: in space. I know they you know, they've centrifuged a 932 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: few small animals and little contraptions, But I did not 933 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: know there had ever been anything on the human scale. 934 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: This experiment may count though it's it's a pretty weak attempt, 935 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: but it was an attempt. I don't mean to say 936 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: week like these astronauts and scientists didn't know what they 937 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 1: were doing, but they didn't attempt all that much in 938 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,359 Speaker 1: terms of artificial gravity, right, I mean, it has will 939 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: become clear as you explain it. It's still like anything 940 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,839 Speaker 1: you do in orbit is pretty balls. Yeah. So so 941 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: this this definitely qualifies. But to your point in might 942 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,080 Speaker 1: it's not exactly a robust exploration. Yeah. So this this 943 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,799 Speaker 1: is the Bullus method, and it was tested to a 944 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,240 Speaker 1: to a very small extent during the Gemini eleven mission 945 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six. Or as the people at the 946 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,840 Speaker 1: time would say, Jiminy. And it was crewed by Charles 947 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,399 Speaker 1: Pete Conrad and Richard Gordon. And while in orbit around 948 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,440 Speaker 1: the Earth, the Gemini spacecraft was attached to a heavy 949 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,960 Speaker 1: counterweight object called the Agena Target Vehicle by h and 950 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:57,319 Speaker 1: that Agena Target vehicle had on it a thirty meter tether. Now, 951 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,799 Speaker 1: at the time, we didn't have these really good complicated 952 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,680 Speaker 1: botic arms or auto locking cable jack's. To get these 953 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,880 Speaker 1: two objects connected via the tether, Richard Gordon, the crew member, 954 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,920 Speaker 1: had to leave the cabin in a space suit and 955 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: attach the tether manually. And apparently this job was grueling. 956 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,760 Speaker 1: Gordon got so overexerted doing it that his life support 957 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: system was stressed and he was sweating so much inside 958 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,640 Speaker 1: his space suit that he couldn't see out of his 959 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,359 Speaker 1: right eye. Oh man, because I imagine it's just kind 960 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,360 Speaker 1: of like pulling up, puddling up right, exactly like the 961 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,759 Speaker 1: dripping off frozen in the lake at the bottom of 962 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,759 Speaker 1: Dante's Inferno, you know. Oh oh man, yeah, wow, I 963 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,800 Speaker 1: never thought about I had really not thought about the 964 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,400 Speaker 1: like the sweating in space and blinding yourself with your 965 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: own tears horrible, but anyway, yes, sweating so much he 966 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: blinded himself in his right eye. Anyway, he did manage 967 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,719 Speaker 1: to get the two spacecraft attached by the tether. He 968 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,160 Speaker 1: got back inside the Gemini cabin and they were able 969 00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: to close the hatch and repressurize. Later, or after they 970 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,879 Speaker 1: were connected via the tether, the two spacecraft undocked from 971 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: one another, so they disconnected except for the tether. And 972 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 1: then they stretched out and pulled the tether taut and 973 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,919 Speaker 1: they began a rotation movement. And apparently it was hard 974 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,520 Speaker 1: to get this stable because they were what they called oscillations. 975 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,520 Speaker 1: I imagine that's like the tether being taught but then 976 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,719 Speaker 1: loosening maybe or moving side to side. Um, there were 977 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,320 Speaker 1: oscillations in the rotation and for the first twenty minutes 978 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,960 Speaker 1: or so, and then after that the rotation rate was 979 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,799 Speaker 1: was increased and the crew successfully managed to generate a 980 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,920 Speaker 1: tiny artificial gravity effect inside the Gemini eleven capsule. UH Supposedly, 981 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,400 Speaker 1: one way they measured this is somebody dropped a camera 982 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,960 Speaker 1: and it went in a straight line toward the floor, 983 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,399 Speaker 1: toward the outside wall of the capsule that was away 984 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: from where the tether was so they measured it and 985 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,280 Speaker 1: figured that they had generated about zero point zero zero 986 00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: zero five G. And but that was with row point 987 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,000 Speaker 1: fifteen revolutions per minute. So this is a very slow rotation. 988 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 1: It's not a huge construct. Um So, I mean, that's 989 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,960 Speaker 1: a reasonable thing to generate. If they had been rotating faster, 990 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,239 Speaker 1: or if the tether had been longer, they might have 991 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: been able to to to create a more powerful effect. 992 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,400 Speaker 1: But anyway, this did prove the principle. And afterwards the 993 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: tether was released and the edge in a vehicle was 994 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,279 Speaker 1: dropped to its orbital fate after about three hours. Now 995 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: moving on, the author's also talk about how in nineteen 996 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,880 Speaker 1: eight there was this Slovene engineer named Herman Potasnik, writing 997 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,800 Speaker 1: under the pseudonym Herman nor Dung, who proposed a wheel 998 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 1: shaped space station with habitation around the rim of the wheel. 999 00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 1: And his idea was that you'd have this wheel that 1000 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:47,800 Speaker 1: people would live in, and then the hub of the 1001 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,120 Speaker 1: wheel you'd have a power generating station and this would 1002 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 1: have been thirty meters in diameter. It was called the 1003 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,360 Speaker 1: one rod or living wheel. And then in nineteen fifty 1004 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,120 Speaker 1: three in Collier's Weekly, the German American rocket scientists Werner 1005 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:06,840 Speaker 1: von Braun took this wheel shaped model and updated it 1006 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,880 Speaker 1: to be larger with a seventy six meter diameter, and 1007 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,240 Speaker 1: von Braun calculated that if you had a wheel seventy 1008 00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,960 Speaker 1: six ms wide and it rotated at three revolutions per minute, 1009 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,719 Speaker 1: you could simulate a gravity of zero point three G, 1010 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,360 Speaker 1: which is sort of close to the gravity of Mars, 1011 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,320 Speaker 1: which is zero point three h G. And this would 1012 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: make it supposedly a good training facility from Mars expeditions, 1013 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,040 Speaker 1: but also, as we were talking about earlier, might be 1014 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,399 Speaker 1: within livable tolerances for human life. You know, if if 1015 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,719 Speaker 1: that's the best you could do in space, that might 1016 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,279 Speaker 1: still be better than micro gravity, better than nothing at all, right, 1017 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean, without without like actually doing any math on this, 1018 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,520 Speaker 1: if you could make it to wear really rigorous exercise 1019 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: regime for your space faring human if it allowed them 1020 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 1: to like to cleanly break even against you know, loss 1021 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,360 Speaker 1: to to bone in muscle, then it would be worth it, right, right, 1022 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd imagine three hours of exercise a day 1023 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,839 Speaker 1: and zero point three G does a lot more work 1024 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,600 Speaker 1: than three hours of exercise a day and zero G. Yeah, 1025 00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:12,640 Speaker 1: And on top of that you're getting acclimatized to the 1026 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,560 Speaker 1: gravity that you're headed towards. Totally. Yeah, and so there 1027 00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,279 Speaker 1: have also been some really interesting proposed odd models, Like 1028 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four Dandridge Coal and Donald Cox proposed 1029 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,520 Speaker 1: this interesting idea. So Coal was really interested in the 1030 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,680 Speaker 1: mining and colonization of asteroids, and one of his proposed 1031 00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,600 Speaker 1: ideas was that you'd capture a large asteroid to be 1032 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,280 Speaker 1: about thirty kilometers in length, that ideally be an elliptical asteroid, 1033 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 1: kind of egg shaped, and you'd hollow out the inside 1034 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,920 Speaker 1: of it, and then you would use propulsion to get 1035 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: the asteroid rotating along its major axis, and this would 1036 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: generate artificial gravity inside the hollowed out asteroid, and you 1037 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 1: could sort of build a bubble city on the inside 1038 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,960 Speaker 1: walls of the hollow space rocks, sustained by shining sunlight 1039 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,000 Speaker 1: into the core with rors. This was also explored on 1040 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,840 Speaker 1: the Expanse by the way they talk about colon cox Um. 1041 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,640 Speaker 1: I don't remember if they if they actually referenced them 1042 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,239 Speaker 1: in any way, but there's they discussed like the the 1043 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,720 Speaker 1: early efforts to reach these various asteroids and to create 1044 00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,640 Speaker 1: a spin mine amount get them spinning and then you 1045 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,440 Speaker 1: can build habitats inside them. Did it work or not work? 1046 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:28,160 Speaker 1: I mean in the in the knovel The Toll it worked. Yeah, okay, yeah. 1047 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,080 Speaker 1: The only thing that didn't work in the novels was 1048 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,400 Speaker 1: the colonization of Venus, like that ended up failing. They're 1049 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,360 Speaker 1: trying to create like floating cities. Yeah, but anyway, elm, 1050 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: that could go really bad. Well anyway, so yeah, another 1051 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: weird idea this, well, it's actually maybe not that weird 1052 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,320 Speaker 1: because here you get something like it. In two thousand 1053 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,240 Speaker 1: one of Space Odyssey would be a sphere. Yeah, so 1054 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,640 Speaker 1: the American physicist Gerard K. O'Neill proposed a rotating sphere 1055 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,640 Speaker 1: that he called Island one. And this would be five 1056 00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,720 Speaker 1: in diameter, rotate once every thirty second, which he said 1057 00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,680 Speaker 1: would generate about one earth g at the equator. Now 1058 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: that's an important thing to consider, a rotating sphere. It 1059 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,000 Speaker 1: would be different than a rotating wheel, and that there'd 1060 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,640 Speaker 1: be areas you could access that would not have the 1061 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,520 Speaker 1: same gravity. Right, Like, if if you go to the equator, 1062 00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,160 Speaker 1: you'd get your maximum gravity. But then if you walk 1063 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,040 Speaker 1: up to the poles of the rotating sphere, you'd basically 1064 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,320 Speaker 1: be waitless because it wouldn't be a like a hollow 1065 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,400 Speaker 1: Earth scenario where you would ideally have like the mass 1066 00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 1: of the crust. Like a mass is not going to 1067 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,200 Speaker 1: play a part in this, So yeah, you would. You 1068 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,960 Speaker 1: would only experience the the maximum GS at that equator 1069 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,560 Speaker 1: because again it's not actually due to gravity, is due 1070 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,840 Speaker 1: to acceleration, right, It's due to your inertia against the 1071 00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:52,960 Speaker 1: constant angular acceleration of the rotating reference frame. Later that 1072 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,680 Speaker 1: same guy, Gerard O'Neill, he proposed a larger model he 1073 00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,760 Speaker 1: called Island two and eventually this gigantic aluminum structure that 1074 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: came to be known as the O'Neill cylinder. And this 1075 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 1: would end up measuring more than thirty kilometers long and 1076 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,760 Speaker 1: three point two kilometers in radius. And you do this 1077 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,919 Speaker 1: by rotating a little over once every two minutes, which 1078 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,640 Speaker 1: could create earth gravity around the inside edges of the cylinder. 1079 00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: And he envisioned this model would actually it would be 1080 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,840 Speaker 1: like an Earth in space. It would contain natural landscapes 1081 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,919 Speaker 1: that have forests and rivers and individual villages within. Yeah, 1082 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 1: you'd have sunlight directed inside from external mirrors. I mean, 1083 00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,800 Speaker 1: crazy stuff that there's a he had a book book, 1084 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,680 Speaker 1: The High Frontier Human Colonies in Space, and the illustrations 1085 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: from this are just magnificent. I know you included one 1086 00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,880 Speaker 1: in in our notes for this this episode, not trying 1087 00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,280 Speaker 1: to include some on the landing page for this episode 1088 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:48,880 Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Because these 1089 00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:54,560 Speaker 1: are just gorgeous, gorgeous sci fi illustrations that really capture 1090 00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,560 Speaker 1: that sort of retro optimism for humanity's future beyond Earth. 1091 01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,600 Speaker 1: Why did they kind of make me think of like 1092 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Broigel or something. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's it's 1093 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:09,160 Speaker 1: these just landscapes, you know, turned on their side and 1094 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,960 Speaker 1: looped together to create this uh this this this internal 1095 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,800 Speaker 1: rotating world. Yeah, I'm not quite sure why, but this 1096 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 1: one illustration we've got included here, it reminds me of 1097 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:25,160 Speaker 1: uh Brogel's landscape with the Fall of Icarus. Though I 1098 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: don't think you're you're allowed to invoke Icarus when contemplating 1099 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,919 Speaker 1: such titanic feats of human achievement, and with so many 1100 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,160 Speaker 1: lives at stake, it is a temptation of the gods 1101 01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,960 Speaker 1: to call down uh misfortune on our Hubris, and I 1102 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 1: mentioned the lives involved because, for instance, in in In 1103 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,000 Speaker 1: O'Neill's Island one. Here he's talking about tens of thousands 1104 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,840 Speaker 1: of people living inside there and uh you know, a 1105 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,760 Speaker 1: living there out their planet free lives and a technological 1106 01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:59,520 Speaker 1: uh semilacrum of their home world environment. Anyway, you will 1107 01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,160 Speaker 1: have to to look at the images. That truly beautiful stuff, 1108 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,200 Speaker 1: totally and you can see in the images that like 1109 01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,600 Speaker 1: the idea for the hollow asteroid, this would use huge 1110 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,880 Speaker 1: windows and mirrors to shine sunlight inside for night and 1111 01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,000 Speaker 1: day cycles, which would be another thing that would be 1112 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:18,439 Speaker 1: absolutely crucial if you're trying to fully simulate an Earth environment. Now, 1113 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: I guess it's finally time to talk about probably the 1114 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,840 Speaker 1: favorite model, the thing that everybody usually goes to, which 1115 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:30,000 Speaker 1: is the Taurus. It's the standard, Yes, it is the standard, 1116 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,840 Speaker 1: and it is the standard from Stanford, the Stanford Taurus. 1117 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:37,000 Speaker 1: So this is really the answer to what's most feasible, 1118 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 1: or at least what scientists have concluded in the past. 1119 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,960 Speaker 1: So in ve NASA and the American Society for Engineering 1120 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,400 Speaker 1: Education put together a study comparing submitted designs for spacecraft habitats, 1121 01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,120 Speaker 1: and this was published by Johnson and Holbrow in nine 1122 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,560 Speaker 1: and it looked at wheel shaped design, cylinder design, spherical designs, 1123 01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,000 Speaker 1: and NASA ultimately decided that a design submitted by stand 1124 01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,600 Speaker 1: Ford students was the most feasible, and this was the 1125 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,720 Speaker 1: design that came to be known as the Stanford Taurus. 1126 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,680 Speaker 1: So it taurus is like we've been saying, a ring, 1127 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,920 Speaker 1: it's a hollow doughnut, and the Stanford Taurus would be 1128 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,480 Speaker 1: a ring shaped tube. So it's a tube like a cylinder, 1129 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:16,960 Speaker 1: except it's a tube that goes around in a circle 1130 01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,400 Speaker 1: and connects on itself a hollow donut. And so inside 1131 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,080 Speaker 1: that tube it would be a hundred and thirty meters across. 1132 01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,320 Speaker 1: Now keep in mind that's not the diameter of the 1133 01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,000 Speaker 1: whole ring that's inside the tube that makes the ring, 1134 01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,920 Speaker 1: but the diameter of the whole thing would be about 1135 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,480 Speaker 1: one point eight kilometers across, and then it would be 1136 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,600 Speaker 1: the tube would be about five point six kilometers long. 1137 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,760 Speaker 1: So that would be the circumference and spinning the ring 1138 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,479 Speaker 1: at one revolution per minute at these dimensions, it would 1139 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,760 Speaker 1: generate about one G along the outer edge of the 1140 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,000 Speaker 1: tube or earth gravity, and so feasibly you could build 1141 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,680 Speaker 1: whole earth environments inside, like the O'Neill cylinder. If this 1142 01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,600 Speaker 1: were built, you could supposedly have running wall or farms, woods, 1143 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,840 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff to make a space habitat 1144 01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,960 Speaker 1: as lovely and wonderful as our natural Earth habitat. And 1145 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,120 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties and seventies, NASA did investigate ideas 1146 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 1: for creating artificial gravity environments for upcoming space missions. There's 1147 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,560 Speaker 1: one illustration I found that I thought was pretty cool. 1148 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,360 Speaker 1: I I don't know what the name of this is. 1149 01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:22,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if it had a name. I'm calling 1150 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,840 Speaker 1: it the Rod because it's also a rotating space station, 1151 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,440 Speaker 1: but it's just a big rod. Now it's not rotating. 1152 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,000 Speaker 1: It's not rotating, you know, like rolling as a rod. 1153 01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:39,280 Speaker 1: It's spinning, spinning baton, which I thought was interesting. So 1154 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, the U. S. Space Agency concept 1155 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,520 Speaker 1: drawing for for this space station was produced. And I 1156 01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 1: think it's an interesting concept. But obviously it has you know, 1157 01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,200 Speaker 1: so it's got less material investment than the construction of 1158 01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,480 Speaker 1: a huge wheel. But I would imagine it also has drawbacks, 1159 01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:59,080 Speaker 1: like the farther you farther along you are towards the 1160 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:03,080 Speaker 1: ends of the raw odd, the more gravity you experience, right, 1161 01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,560 Speaker 1: because gravity is a product of the speed of the 1162 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,240 Speaker 1: rotation and the radius, and so as you go toward 1163 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,560 Speaker 1: the center of the rod, you're shortening your radius, and 1164 01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,480 Speaker 1: as you go towards the outside of the rod, you're 1165 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 1: lengthening your radius, and so at the center you'd be waitless. 1166 01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,360 Speaker 1: So I can imagine maybe something like this would be 1167 01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,760 Speaker 1: a system where the end compartments are again the places 1168 01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,120 Speaker 1: you go for your daily workouts in earth gravity, ha, Yeah, 1169 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,840 Speaker 1: to keep your your muscles and bones strong. And then 1170 01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,280 Speaker 1: the lower gravity environments would be I guess we'd do 1171 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,160 Speaker 1: other things. Maybe you'd sleep there, you know, I don't know, 1172 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,440 Speaker 1: store stuff there or something like that. Or it's just 1173 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,600 Speaker 1: where the captain gets to live, you know. Everyone else 1174 01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,520 Speaker 1: has to float and deal with it. Yeah, And and 1175 01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,920 Speaker 1: this does draw on conceptually something that we see in 1176 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,560 Speaker 1: science fiction a lot of the time, which is that 1177 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,200 Speaker 1: maybe not the entire habitable portion of the of a 1178 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:58,120 Speaker 1: spacecraft has artificial gravity. Maybe much of it is going 1179 01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,400 Speaker 1: to be a micro gravity environment where your flow around, 1180 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,800 Speaker 1: but there's like one room that's a rotating drum or 1181 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,360 Speaker 1: taurists or something that you can go into and there's 1182 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,120 Speaker 1: artificial gravity, and that one contained environment yeah. Now in 1183 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,240 Speaker 1: in Peter Watt's blind side, Yes, if I remember correctly, 1184 01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,160 Speaker 1: here there are portions of the ship that have artificial 1185 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:22,040 Speaker 1: gravity DA spin, Yes, but they're also working and even 1186 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,840 Speaker 1: sleeping in the zero gravity are I think so? Yeah? 1187 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,200 Speaker 1: I think so. I think most of the ship, if 1188 01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,720 Speaker 1: I recall, is going to be a zero gy environment 1189 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,440 Speaker 1: where you're floating around you have to propel yourself. And 1190 01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,400 Speaker 1: then there's one portion of the ship known as the 1191 01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,520 Speaker 1: drum that's the gravity environment. So there have been a 1192 01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,640 Speaker 1: lot of these propositions over the years. You know, NASA 1193 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,960 Speaker 1: has looked at how to create space stations like this, 1194 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,520 Speaker 1: but ultimately these designs would be extremely expensive to produce 1195 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,800 Speaker 1: and difficult to execute a little bit more on that later. 1196 01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,480 Speaker 1: But another factor is that, you know, NASA's scientists are 1197 01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:00,480 Speaker 1: looking at this and they're saying, well, a lot of 1198 01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:05,800 Speaker 1: the experiments we want to carry out or microgravity experiments anyway, Right, 1199 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,880 Speaker 1: So I don't know, do do we really need to 1200 01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:12,280 Speaker 1: spend all this money making the International Space Station UH 1201 01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,920 Speaker 1: an artificial gravity environment when people are going to be 1202 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,920 Speaker 1: spending their whole lives there, They're just gonna be there 1203 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:18,640 Speaker 1: for a short period of time. And then they're gonna 1204 01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,120 Speaker 1: come back and they'll be able to recover some the 1205 01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,560 Speaker 1: negative health effects. Yeah. I mean there's two two of 1206 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,880 Speaker 1: the main points wrapped up in that we don't really 1207 01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:30,120 Speaker 1: need um artificial gravity right now, not based on what 1208 01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,320 Speaker 1: we're currently doing. Yeah, and we're still there's still so 1209 01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:35,560 Speaker 1: much to learn about the effects of micro gravity on 1210 01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,120 Speaker 1: organisms right now. There's also still a lot to learn 1211 01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: about the effects of artificial gravity on organisms. Now if 1212 01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,880 Speaker 1: that's with the qualification it's taught. What you're talking about 1213 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:52,960 Speaker 1: there is the specific effects of centrifugal artificial gravity, because 1214 01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,680 Speaker 1: those are going to be somewhat different than just a pure, say, 1215 01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,160 Speaker 1: linear acceleration type artificial gravity that's going to be mostly 1216 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:04,120 Speaker 1: indistinguishable from Earth UM in centrifugal environments, if you're in 1217 01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,800 Speaker 1: a spinning environment, depending on how small the radius is 1218 01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,680 Speaker 1: and how fast you're spinning, it could have weird effects. 1219 01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,360 Speaker 1: And I'll talk about those complications in a minute. But 1220 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,920 Speaker 1: so to study those weird effects, scientists have conducted UH 1221 01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:22,760 Speaker 1: experiments on animals like fish, rats, turtles, and generally animals 1222 01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,320 Speaker 1: seem to survive centerfuging in space just fine, though in 1223 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:30,320 Speaker 1: systems with a very high rotation rate. Rats seem to 1224 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:35,160 Speaker 1: have a problem with orientation, movement, and vestibular and motor coordination, 1225 01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,000 Speaker 1: so it's not a big surprise. But if you put 1226 01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:41,280 Speaker 1: them in a rotating centerfuge with a small radius and 1227 01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,840 Speaker 1: very fast rotation, you get some very dizzy and confused 1228 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,840 Speaker 1: and uncomfortable rats. But on the plus side, the centerfuging 1229 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,680 Speaker 1: process does appear to stave off the wasting effects of 1230 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,240 Speaker 1: zero G, so if you put animals in a centerfuge 1231 01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,720 Speaker 1: like this, their bones and muscles do appear to stay strong. Now, 1232 01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,600 Speaker 1: just to turn to one more recent proposity, ession of 1233 01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,880 Speaker 1: an artificial gravity spacecraft, h I thought we should look 1234 01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,400 Speaker 1: at real quick at the Nautilus X. Apparently this is 1235 01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,240 Speaker 1: also the name of some vaping product, which is most 1236 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,960 Speaker 1: of what the Google results are about, so God help 1237 01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:15,240 Speaker 1: us there. But uh, the Nautilus X was a proposed 1238 01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,800 Speaker 1: NASA spacecraft that would contain a rotating centerfuge. It would 1239 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:22,160 Speaker 1: have a TURUS ring that was built to simulate partial 1240 01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:25,479 Speaker 1: Earth G for the habitable quarters. And this spacecraft was 1241 01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,639 Speaker 1: designed but never built, And you can look up images 1242 01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,719 Speaker 1: of the design on the Internet. It's kind of interesting 1243 01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,200 Speaker 1: to see and I think the idea is that part 1244 01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,759 Speaker 1: of it here would have this hollow doughnut that would 1245 01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,639 Speaker 1: be rotating and you could you could transfer its momentum 1246 01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,560 Speaker 1: to a flywheel and uh and so it would be 1247 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,400 Speaker 1: rotating around the ship and you could get in there 1248 01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:47,240 Speaker 1: to have some gravity time. And there have also been 1249 01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,520 Speaker 1: plenty of proposals over the years to add a centerfuge 1250 01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,280 Speaker 1: to the I S S in order to test artificial gravity. 1251 01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,759 Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, I don't think anything 1252 01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,200 Speaker 1: like that is still on the runway right now. I 1253 01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,519 Speaker 1: think these plans have pretty much stalled out. And I 1254 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,839 Speaker 1: don't know if you were able to do across anything. 1255 01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:04,559 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was that seemed actually active right now. Yeah, 1256 01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:06,720 Speaker 1: but there may be hope. So I don't know, if 1257 01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:08,439 Speaker 1: you're out there working on a center fugure for the 1258 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,000 Speaker 1: I S S and you think it might one day 1259 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,760 Speaker 1: get up there, let us know. Well, you know, the 1260 01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 1: Turbo lift that I mentioned, like that news of it 1261 01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:20,320 Speaker 1: being funded, that's just this year. So it's possible that 1262 01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:25,320 Speaker 1: there's some additional initiatives that have been funded in the 1263 01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,760 Speaker 1: past couple of months. I hope they're not in competition. 1264 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,559 Speaker 1: Would it be Turbo later versus centerfuge. Oh, it sounds 1265 01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:35,880 Speaker 1: like a great battle. That's just sure. Now I've mentioned 1266 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,879 Speaker 1: several times the possible complications of a spinning artificial gravity environment, 1267 01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,920 Speaker 1: right you can sort of imagine that there might be 1268 01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,000 Speaker 1: some that's spinning around in a circle towards the floor. 1269 01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,080 Speaker 1: Is not going to be exactly the same as having 1270 01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,280 Speaker 1: a gravitational force pulling you towards the ground. It it 1271 01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:54,800 Speaker 1: might in most cases, or depending on the radius and 1272 01:09:54,800 --> 01:10:00,559 Speaker 1: the rotation rate, be mostly indistinguishable, but especially it's smaller scales, 1273 01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:05,000 Speaker 1: there are gonna be some weird complications. This is gonna 1274 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:10,240 Speaker 1: be the frozen from concentrate orange juice version of fresh 1275 01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,800 Speaker 1: orange juice. Yep, I think we should talk about the 1276 01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:18,599 Speaker 1: Coriolis force. So, Robert, imagine you're on a ferris wheel. 1277 01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,439 Speaker 1: You at home as well. Imagine you're up there. You're 1278 01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:24,559 Speaker 1: in the car on the ferris wheel, and you're just 1279 01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:27,720 Speaker 1: coming up over the top of the ferris wheel, and 1280 01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,920 Speaker 1: you notice that a friend of yours is directly below you, 1281 01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:33,439 Speaker 1: and you want to pour some mountain dew on their head, 1282 01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,120 Speaker 1: so you pour away. You pour the mountain dew to 1283 01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,960 Speaker 1: hit your friend, but you miss, and the dew instead 1284 01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:44,000 Speaker 1: hits the people in the car directly behind your friend. 1285 01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,479 Speaker 1: And this really shouldn't surprise anybody, right, this is just duh. 1286 01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, you're on a ferris wheel. Even though your 1287 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,479 Speaker 1: friend was directly below you when you began pouring the 1288 01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,920 Speaker 1: liquid straight straight down, the wheel was in motion, and 1289 01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,479 Speaker 1: by the time the liquid fell and reach the bottom, 1290 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,160 Speaker 1: your friend had moved out of the way and somebody 1291 01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,639 Speaker 1: else had moved in. Now, this is totally normal, totally 1292 01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,519 Speaker 1: intuitive physics on a ferris wheel because we're generally looking 1293 01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:14,280 Speaker 1: at a ferris wheel from the outside. But if you 1294 01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:18,120 Speaker 1: try to imagine riding a rotating machine like a ferris 1295 01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:22,200 Speaker 1: wheel around in a circle in zero G in a 1296 01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:28,240 Speaker 1: closed environment, the rotation becomes your new stationary reference frame 1297 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,439 Speaker 1: you the The whole idea is that you're supposed to 1298 01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:34,200 Speaker 1: be able to forget that you're rotating, and instead of 1299 01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,479 Speaker 1: feeling rotation, just feel a pull toward the floor. Like. 1300 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,680 Speaker 1: Notice how even though your section of the Earth is 1301 01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:45,160 Speaker 1: orbiting the Sun and rotating around the Earth's axis, everything 1302 01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,840 Speaker 1: seems perfectly still. Right. This is your inertial reference frame, 1303 01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,439 Speaker 1: and since everything around you is moving, it roughly the 1304 01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 1: same speed in the same direction, everything feels like it's 1305 01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,960 Speaker 1: holding still, And the same thing could happen inside a 1306 01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 1: closed environment, rotating in a constant and speed in direction 1307 01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:04,479 Speaker 1: in space, and so then the exact same trajectory we 1308 01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,960 Speaker 1: saw with pouring the liquid down from the top to 1309 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,080 Speaker 1: the bottom of the ferris wheel still applies, but because 1310 01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,720 Speaker 1: we're not looking in from the outside, it starts to 1311 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,280 Speaker 1: look super odd. Like you could throw a packet of 1312 01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:21,240 Speaker 1: dehydrated space lasagna straight at somebody's face across the torus 1313 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,360 Speaker 1: from or across the cylinder or whatever it is in 1314 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:28,280 Speaker 1: this spaceship, and it would appear that even though you 1315 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,000 Speaker 1: threw it straight, this thing you threw would suddenly arc 1316 01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,920 Speaker 1: over to the side, and so from your perspective, things 1317 01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,840 Speaker 1: would have this bizarre motion that wouldn't appear to make 1318 01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,400 Speaker 1: any sense at all unless you were looking at the 1319 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,080 Speaker 1: ship from the outside. Yeah, and there's actually a point 1320 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,880 Speaker 1: in Blindside where they referenced this where one individual throws 1321 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,679 Speaker 1: it's either it's a ball or fruit or an apples. 1322 01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,240 Speaker 1: I think it's an apple, yeah, yeah, and uh and 1323 01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,559 Speaker 1: it kind of goes wide yeah yeah, yeah, And this 1324 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,680 Speaker 1: would be a problem. Now that might not be a 1325 01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:02,360 Speaker 1: big deal because you're like, well, how often do you 1326 01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,760 Speaker 1: need to throw something to somebody? Well, actually, if you 1327 01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,120 Speaker 1: watch people in the International Space Station, they're sort of 1328 01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,360 Speaker 1: tossing stuff to each other a lot. Yeah, they're taking 1329 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,920 Speaker 1: advantage of the microgravity. But it gets a lot worse 1330 01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,800 Speaker 1: than just tossing stuff to each other, because this also 1331 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,320 Speaker 1: is going to affect just general movement. If you're at 1332 01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,719 Speaker 1: a small enough scale, like if your radius is small 1333 01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,160 Speaker 1: enough and your rotations are fast enough, this is going 1334 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,160 Speaker 1: to be affecting how your body itself moves. And it 1335 01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:28,599 Speaker 1: gets even worse when you think about how it could affect, 1336 01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,479 Speaker 1: like affect your internal body systems. Yeah, I mean you 1337 01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,040 Speaker 1: could you could find yourself in your chamber and no 1338 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:37,040 Speaker 1: matter how how else the rest of you feels about 1339 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:41,200 Speaker 1: your your your artificial gravity scenario, you might feel a 1340 01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:45,679 Speaker 1: bit nauseous. The coreolis effects on inner ear into limp 1341 01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:51,120 Speaker 1: flow and on moving limbs creates a disorientation, nausea, vomiting, 1342 01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,920 Speaker 1: and even can cause loss of coordination. Yeah, and this 1343 01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,240 Speaker 1: actually isn't all that hard to understand because you've probably 1344 01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,639 Speaker 1: experienced something like this in your life. If you've ever 1345 01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,760 Speaker 1: been car sick while trying to read inside a moving car. 1346 01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,679 Speaker 1: In both cases, what's going on is that the fluids 1347 01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:09,200 Speaker 1: inside your body are slashing around in directions that don't 1348 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:12,800 Speaker 1: make sense to your eyes based on your environmental reference frame. 1349 01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,720 Speaker 1: So in a car, you're sitting in the car, you 1350 01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:18,120 Speaker 1: don't really feel like you're moving. You just kind of 1351 01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,280 Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, I'm sitting here stationary in a car, 1352 01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,559 Speaker 1: especially if you're reading or doing something with your eyes down, 1353 01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:29,160 Speaker 1: you're not getting the information about movement around in your environment. Meanwhile, 1354 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:31,800 Speaker 1: the inside of your body, especially your inner ears, saying 1355 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,120 Speaker 1: like whoa, We're all over the place, what's going on? 1356 01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:38,360 Speaker 1: And that discus This discontinuity or disagreement between the movement 1357 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,479 Speaker 1: information supplied by your senses and felt by your inner 1358 01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:46,200 Speaker 1: ear causes this destabilizing sensation. It makes you sick. Now. 1359 01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:48,200 Speaker 1: One of the issues here that we keep coming back 1360 01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:52,519 Speaker 1: to is that the smaller you're rotating environment, the more 1361 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,519 Speaker 1: it is actually a carnival ride, and that the larger 1362 01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,679 Speaker 1: it is, uh, the better chance you have it's smoothing 1363 01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:02,200 Speaker 1: some of the more undesirable effects out exactly right. So 1364 01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:04,479 Speaker 1: if you I mean, one thing you'll notice is that 1365 01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:09,160 Speaker 1: like there are Coriolis effects in the rotation of the Earth, right, 1366 01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:14,000 Speaker 1: but normally come yeah, if you throw a baseball, if 1367 01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,760 Speaker 1: you are just standing around, like, the Coriolis effect of 1368 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:18,800 Speaker 1: the rotation of the Earth is not messing with you 1369 01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,320 Speaker 1: too bad because the Earth is huge. Um, if you 1370 01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:25,200 Speaker 1: if you were in a much smaller rotating reference frame, 1371 01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:26,800 Speaker 1: it would be messing with you a lot more. I mean, 1372 01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:28,880 Speaker 1: mainly on Earth. You only see the rotation of the 1373 01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,839 Speaker 1: Earth causing Coreola's forces to affect a large scale movement 1374 01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,840 Speaker 1: such as like tides and weather patterns, you know, huge 1375 01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,559 Speaker 1: movements over long distances and long time. Yeah, and so 1376 01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,920 Speaker 1: the same would be generally true in an artificial gravity 1377 01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,519 Speaker 1: environment that was rotating, if it was a very very 1378 01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,400 Speaker 1: big radius and a slow rotation. In this environment, the 1379 01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,400 Speaker 1: Coriolis forces would be much less likely to have a 1380 01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,320 Speaker 1: noticeable effect on your body and on the stuff you're doing. 1381 01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:00,000 Speaker 1: Another side effect, especially of a small radius fast rotation 1382 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:03,200 Speaker 1: end system, would be in a rotating environment, you could 1383 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,439 Speaker 1: have unequal gravity loading. That's about as weird as it sounds. 1384 01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,960 Speaker 1: So the centrifugal force you feel like we were saying, 1385 01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,559 Speaker 1: is partially determined by your distance from the hub so 1386 01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,080 Speaker 1: in a big wheel, this isn't it's not gonna matter 1387 01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,120 Speaker 1: very much. You know, the percent distance from the hub 1388 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:21,200 Speaker 1: between your head and your feet, if the hub is 1389 01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:24,720 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of meters away, is just you know, 1390 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,439 Speaker 1: it's just not that much. If it's ten meters away, 1391 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,280 Speaker 1: then suddenly you might start to feel a significant difference 1392 01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,280 Speaker 1: between the gravity affecting your feet and the gravity affecting 1393 01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,080 Speaker 1: your head, and this could affect it could lead to 1394 01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:39,439 Speaker 1: problems with things like circulation. But it would also just 1395 01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:43,559 Speaker 1: be disorienting and make movement difficult, partially negating the benefits 1396 01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,680 Speaker 1: of artificial gravity. Another reason that if we were going 1397 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,760 Speaker 1: to make one of these things and it was to 1398 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:53,720 Speaker 1: be effective, it would need to be very big. And 1399 01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,799 Speaker 1: that is the answer to one of our final questions 1400 01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,000 Speaker 1: here at the end. You're saying, okay, so we know 1401 01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:01,440 Speaker 1: basically that we could make some for of artificial gravity 1402 01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,519 Speaker 1: sort of work. I mean, it might not be perfect, 1403 01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,000 Speaker 1: but this is you know, basic physics. This is not 1404 01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,280 Speaker 1: something that's totally hypothetical. It could work, So why haven't 1405 01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,599 Speaker 1: we done it? The main issue is size and cost 1406 01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,160 Speaker 1: for a spending artificial gravity environment to be tolerable to 1407 01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:19,240 Speaker 1: human occupants. It would need to be pretty big, and 1408 01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,640 Speaker 1: to be that big, you would need lots of construction materials. 1409 01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:25,720 Speaker 1: And to get lots of construction materials into space, you 1410 01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,080 Speaker 1: need lots of rocket launches. And rocket launches are very expensive. 1411 01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,400 Speaker 1: They're getting cheaper, but they're still very expensive for the 1412 01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,479 Speaker 1: tons of materials you need to get up there to 1413 01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,160 Speaker 1: build this stuff. So it really at this point is 1414 01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,640 Speaker 1: mainly a matter of cost, right, And I mean you 1415 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:45,280 Speaker 1: can basically any any space mission, any space initiative. I mean, 1416 01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,040 Speaker 1: they're going to be priorities, and you can even if 1417 01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,200 Speaker 1: if something like this is on the list, it's going 1418 01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:53,599 Speaker 1: to get pushed down by other initiatives. Yeah, yeah, totally. 1419 01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,759 Speaker 1: And I mean, so building a one of these big, 1420 01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:01,320 Speaker 1: functioning artificial gravity environments that would be something habitable, generating 1421 01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,880 Speaker 1: something close to Earth g could fit a lot of 1422 01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:05,840 Speaker 1: people on it. You're you're probably talking about just a 1423 01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,160 Speaker 1: multi trillion dollar project here. It would just be so 1424 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:13,400 Speaker 1: huge it's kind of not feasible for Earth space programs 1425 01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:18,520 Speaker 1: at the investment levels they're encountering. Now here's another problem. 1426 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,559 Speaker 1: We've got some limits on research. Right. Ideally, if you're 1427 01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,240 Speaker 1: gonna launch one of these things in space, you'd want 1428 01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,760 Speaker 1: to do a lot of preparation research up front to 1429 01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,439 Speaker 1: make sure you're not making a big mistake about what 1430 01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:31,479 Speaker 1: what's the best thing to do in space. But on 1431 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,599 Speaker 1: Earth there's really no feasible way to perfectly test out 1432 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,519 Speaker 1: artificial gravity concepts because on the surface of the Earth 1433 01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:41,919 Speaker 1: you have to deal with the constant complications of Earth gravity. 1434 01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:46,479 Speaker 1: So you can kind of try to simulate weightlessness, and 1435 01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,960 Speaker 1: so you could do like neutral buoyancy experiments, you know, 1436 01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,360 Speaker 1: where you're in water with a sort of balanced out 1437 01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:56,840 Speaker 1: buoyancy weight ratio, or you could do you could get 1438 01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,400 Speaker 1: in an airplane and do parabolic flights to have you know, 1439 01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:02,600 Speaker 1: twenty five seconds at a time or so of weightlessness. 1440 01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,280 Speaker 1: But these things aren't all that helpful when you're talking 1441 01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:09,640 Speaker 1: about trying to test out an artificial gravity environment at 1442 01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:13,280 Speaker 1: a like ship or space station size scale, Yeah, you 1443 01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,479 Speaker 1: really need enough in zero G micro G environment, and 1444 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,840 Speaker 1: to get that you have to go into space. You 1445 01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:20,840 Speaker 1: have to go to orbit, right, So to really test 1446 01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,000 Speaker 1: one of these things, you essentially have to do it. 1447 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,840 Speaker 1: You can't really test it without just making this thing 1448 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:28,400 Speaker 1: and putting it in space. Now, I guess the good 1449 01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,920 Speaker 1: news is that it's kind of to to to sort 1450 01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,160 Speaker 1: of reference the old Mitch Hedberg a bit about about 1451 01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,679 Speaker 1: an escalator. What do you call it? Broken escalator? It's stairs, right, 1452 01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,120 Speaker 1: Um is like if the thing didn't work, you just 1453 01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,240 Speaker 1: turn it off and you float. I guess right, Like, 1454 01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:47,800 Speaker 1: it's still going to be serviceable on some level. And 1455 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,160 Speaker 1: you can imagine that. I can imagine a scenario. Maybe 1456 01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,080 Speaker 1: they've even done this in a sci fi where you 1457 01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:56,080 Speaker 1: have like a non functional tourists space station where people 1458 01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:58,920 Speaker 1: arriving like, hey, what's with the walls? How come? How 1459 01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,240 Speaker 1: come this thing didn't work? Well, it's it's it. We're 1460 01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:02,880 Speaker 1: working on it. We gotta work out the kinks, so 1461 01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:06,360 Speaker 1: it's not fully functional yet, right, yeah, yeah, And people 1462 01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,640 Speaker 1: could complain. They'd be like, oh, but I'm I'm experiencing 1463 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,000 Speaker 1: space sickness. And you'd have to be like, hey, look, 1464 01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:15,240 Speaker 1: it's not as bad as the Coreoli's sickness, or it's 1465 01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,040 Speaker 1: a or it's a hotel. We have various rotating modules 1466 01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:21,920 Speaker 1: or rotating wings the hotel, and like, I'm sorry, all 1467 01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:26,040 Speaker 1: the all the rotating rooms are taken, all our gravity 1468 01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:29,600 Speaker 1: rooms are booked. Sorry, we've only got smoking rooms or 1469 01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:36,800 Speaker 1: smoking and micro gravity. That's it. Sorry, Uh, but so hey, 1470 01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,679 Speaker 1: we're saying why it's going to be a problem, uh 1471 01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:42,640 Speaker 1: to to build these environments. But we don't want to 1472 01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:45,439 Speaker 1: end on a downer because I've got something optimistic to say. 1473 01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:49,040 Speaker 1: To revisit a comment we made earlier. If you're willing 1474 01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,160 Speaker 1: to limit your ambitions, artificial gravity starts looking a lot 1475 01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,920 Speaker 1: more achievable. If only a small part of your spacecraft 1476 01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:59,640 Speaker 1: needs gravity, or if you're willing to settle for significantly 1477 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,120 Speaker 1: less than Earth gravity, you've got a lot more options, right. 1478 01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,280 Speaker 1: For example, the rotating sphere compartment in two thousand one 1479 01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,200 Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey. They say it produces only about the 1480 01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:12,320 Speaker 1: gravity of the surface of the Moon. That's not a lot, 1481 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,439 Speaker 1: but it might be enough that you can sort of 1482 01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,719 Speaker 1: jog like the character does. Uh. Basically, it's better than nothing. 1483 01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,280 Speaker 1: Things still fall towards the floor, even if it's not 1484 01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:23,800 Speaker 1: quite like being on Earth. And we mentioned some of 1485 01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:26,479 Speaker 1: those tests earlier, tests on human subjects in the nineteen 1486 01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:30,760 Speaker 1: sixties and these parabolic flights to basically determine what was 1487 01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,360 Speaker 1: tolerable or acceptable to people, you know, and they found 1488 01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:37,200 Speaker 1: out that zero point two G is actually a lot 1489 01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,200 Speaker 1: better than zero point one G. So there's like a 1490 01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,720 Speaker 1: pretty steep drop off point about what's acceptable somewhere in 1491 01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:48,400 Speaker 1: that range that normal human activities were mostly doable starting 1492 01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,479 Speaker 1: at about zero point two G. At about zero point 1493 01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:53,759 Speaker 1: five G, once you get to half of earth gravity, 1494 01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,519 Speaker 1: subjects felt about as sure of their movements as they 1495 01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,599 Speaker 1: did at one G. So once you're halfway there, it's 1496 01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:04,080 Speaker 1: basically good enough to do your movements and you know, 1497 01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:07,120 Speaker 1: maybe even sleep better at night. Yeah, all right, So 1498 01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,479 Speaker 1: there you have it. Artificial gravity. Uh, not to be 1499 01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:15,800 Speaker 1: confused with anti gravity. That's an entirely different podcast there. Now, 1500 01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,720 Speaker 1: how many times did we accidentally say anti gravity in 1501 01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,120 Speaker 1: this episode today? None that I know of, but there 1502 01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:25,080 Speaker 1: could be. Doesn't how many are later? I kept catching 1503 01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,559 Speaker 1: myself doing it in the notes. I kept I kept 1504 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,200 Speaker 1: typing in um anti gravity, and I have to go 1505 01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,719 Speaker 1: back and it was like, not anti gravity because anti 1506 01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:34,960 Speaker 1: gravity is sort of sort of even though it's fun 1507 01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:37,160 Speaker 1: and science fiction as well, it's sort of a dirty 1508 01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:41,120 Speaker 1: word in scientific research. There are other terms that you 1509 01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:43,559 Speaker 1: would use. But but again that's a that's a topic 1510 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,320 Speaker 1: for another time. If you guys want to discuss anti gravity, 1511 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,400 Speaker 1: we can do that in a later date. Anti gravity. 1512 01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:53,919 Speaker 1: It's actually fairly simple. It's commonly known as jumping and lifting. 1513 01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,040 Speaker 1: All right, Well, don't spoil it all, don't spoil it all, 1514 01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,680 Speaker 1: joke alright. So hey, if you want to listen to 1515 01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:02,320 Speaker 1: more episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you want 1516 01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,439 Speaker 1: to explore past episodes, and we have a bunch of them, 1517 01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,679 Speaker 1: many of which deal with space and space exploration. Head 1518 01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,599 Speaker 1: on over to Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1519 01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:13,840 Speaker 1: That is the mothership. Are are spinning mothership there and 1520 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:17,960 Speaker 1: you will find uh a boarded UH post, blog posts, 1521 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,400 Speaker 1: podcast episodes, videos, links out to our various social media 1522 01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,120 Speaker 1: accounts that just Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Instagram. We're on all 1523 01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:26,439 Speaker 1: of those. 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Dot com? 1534 01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:17,440 Speaker 1: Come bigo,