1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: missing Day thirty eight. 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: This as we learn an alleged sighting. 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Has been reported and we find out the latest on 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Annie Guthrie's car online. Annie Guthrie, Savannah's sister in. Nancy 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Guthrie's daughter, has been subjected to a lot of torment 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: and accusations about where is her car. Well, tonight, maybe 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: we have an answer. This as Nanos Sheriff Nanos is 9 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: hit with a one million dollar lawsuit Between that and 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: his reality show? Is he a little too distracted to 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: find Nancy Guthrie and can her hearing aids be tracked? 12 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I 13 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. She would 14 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: not wrap her arm around a guy that she suspected 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: in her mother's kidnap. 16 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: This brother in law would not even be living with 17 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 3: the family. He would be somewhere else That family loves him. 18 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 3: I think it is tragic that the family has had 19 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 3: yet another assault. 20 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: Tonight we are learning about an. 21 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: Alleged sighting of Nancy Guthrie south of the border. 22 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: Is it real? 23 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: It cannot be discounted joining me in All Star panel, 24 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: but first straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative 25 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: reporter Dave Matt. 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 2: What do you know, Nancy. 27 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 4: Remember when we got the ransom notes that were sent 28 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 4: to TMZ. There was the fourth ransom note they gave 29 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 4: us certain from TMZ and law enforcement. Certain information was 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 4: given to the public, but not all of it. Now 31 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 4: we're finding that in the fourth missive sent to TMZ 32 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 4: there was an actual claim by the person sending the 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 4: email that they saw Nancy Guthrie south of the border 34 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 4: in Mexico with her alleged kidnappers. 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 5: This was not a proof of life. 36 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 4: It was merely something added to the email, and it 37 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 4: was sent in an effort to get money. Now, TMZ 38 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 4: offered to be the go between, the mediator between this 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 4: person and law enforcement, and nothing else came from it. 40 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 4: But this person claims that he or she saw Nancy 41 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 4: Guthrie in Mexico. 42 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: So many questions about the alleged siding. And of course, 43 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: in every case when someone goes missing, there are sightings. 44 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes they're true. I recall distinctly a case I had 45 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: been working and reporting on. It was the case of 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: Dylan and Shasta Gronie. They were kidnapped from their home 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: there in coord Lane. Their entire family wiped out and 48 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: killed because some perr was driving along and from the highway. 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: Dave Mac remember this. From the highway, he sees them on. 50 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: An above at an above ground pool that they had 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: and I guess their backyard pulls over. 52 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: Who would have thunk it? 53 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: Wait lies in, Wait wipes out the whole family and 54 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: takes Shasta and little brother Dylan, who he kills after 55 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: torturing in front of the little girl. And then a 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: sighting occurs, like a quick trip or a. 57 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: Convenience store, and it's her. 58 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: She had seen Shasta and Dylan on our show and 59 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: called it in and saved Shasta's life. So that's just 60 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: a true life experience. And there have been many, many 61 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: others this siding. Let's go out to the panel, straight 62 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: out to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us. Brian is a director 63 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: Operations USPA Nationwide Security. Why am I going to him 64 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: because he leads a team of investigators that are dedicated 65 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: to finding missing people, including extractions in Mexico around the world. 66 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: He is a former marine and an Iraqi war vet. Okay, 67 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: we cannot discount this. Obviously nanos can't find her in 68 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: the Catalina Foothills area. Could this be true? What do 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: you do when you get a tip like this? For 70 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, a tip has come 71 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: in spotting Nancy Guthrie south of the Border. Okay, tell me, Brian, 72 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: what do you do? 73 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 6: The first thing that's going to happen here in Nancy 74 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 6: is they're going to try to trace to find the 75 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 6: source of this tip, whether it came in via email 76 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 6: or a cell phone or submitted on a website form, 77 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 6: They're going to do everything that they can to find 78 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 6: the source and the person that submitted this tip. 79 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: Now, I will point out one thing. 80 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 6: This tip demanded one bitcoin, which to me raises an 81 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 6: immediate red flag. It was similar to previously reported information 82 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 6: asking for one bitcoin. There's a one point two plus 83 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 6: million dollar reward out there. Genuine tips at this stage 84 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 6: of an investigation are generally asking for that full reward. 85 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 5: They're not shortening it down to. 86 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 6: Fifty sixty thousand dollars versus one point two million. So 87 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 6: law enforcement still will track down the source of this. 88 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 6: They'll treat it very seriously, of course, but you know, 89 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 6: I have to say there's a major red flag here 90 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 6: in light of that report. 91 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a red flag put up his Gibbons, of 92 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: course there's a red flag. Who do you think the 93 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: kidnapper hangs around with nuns and priests and virgins? No, 94 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: somebody just like him. So who would have seen Nancy? 95 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: Likely a cohort, a compatriot of the kidnapper. That's as 96 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, Brian, when you get information, you have to 97 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: take it wherever you get it. 98 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I've put people on the stand that I 99 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: had to explain. 100 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: Away in opening statement because of their wrap sheet, because 101 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: of who they are, because of what they did. 102 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 2: Just it could be any number of things wrong with 103 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: the informant. 104 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: But I've got a problem with going to a news 105 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: outlet as opposed to police. But you know, unlike you 106 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: and I, some people don't like police, believe it or not. 107 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: As of right now, one bitcoin is sixty nine thousand, 108 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: nine hundred and fifty four dollars. Sixty nine thousand, nine 109 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty four dollars. 110 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: That ain't shabby. 111 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: But back to my original question, at the risk of 112 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: having to repeat myself, Fitz Gibbons, what do you do 113 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: when you get a tip, right, you do something, you 114 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: don't ignore it. 115 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: You have to follow through with it. And what is 116 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: step number one? 117 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, I have a JD, I have 118 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: an LLM, but I don't know how to pull teeth. 119 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: But Jackie, if you could get me set appliers, maybe 120 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: I can. 121 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: Right now, what's your first course of action? Explain it? 122 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, the immediate course of action is going to be 123 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 6: a technological search to try to find the source of 124 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 6: this tip, to identify the individual, be it an IP address, email, however, 125 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 6: they they're gonna go through that. However that tip came in, 126 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 6: we don't know the specifics of the method of which 127 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 6: it was received, but that's going to be the first. 128 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, maybe we do. 129 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: Maybe we do, And if that will help us in 130 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: our discussion, let me go straight to Dave Matt. We 131 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: know it was sent to TMZ in email form, correct, 132 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: What else do we know about it? Was it paired 133 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: with any other inform? Just tell me everything, you know. 134 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: This is one of those things where this is information 135 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 4: the lead out to us of the content of the 136 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 4: emails that TMZ was able to retreat was sent. We 137 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: know that it was part and parcel of the demand 138 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 4: for you know, the ransom money, remember the bitcoin, the 139 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 4: six million dollars. This is the last email TMZ got 140 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 4: from the alleged well not the kidnapper. 141 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 5: This is a sidebarg to the kidnapper. 142 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 4: This is somebody who claims to know who the kidnapper 143 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 4: is and is willing to out that kidnapper but has 144 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 4: yet to do so. 145 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 5: This is that guy or that. 146 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 4: Woman claiming that somehow thinking by saying, yeah, I saw 147 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie in Mexico is enough proof of life for 148 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 4: them TMZ or law enforcement to comp up a bitcoin. 149 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 4: That's what we know is that there's more information in 150 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 4: these notes that have been received by television and TMZ 151 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 4: that we don't know yet. 152 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 5: There's plenty more, you know. They paraphrased everything. 153 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: Specifically, it states quote, I know what I saw five 154 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: days ago south of the border, and I was told 155 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: to shut up, so I know who he is and 156 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: that was definitely Nancy with them now again, TMZ offered 157 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: to act as an intermediary. I don't know how the 158 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: FBI would feel about that. Straight out to the rest 159 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: of our All Star panel joining us, hold on, is 160 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: there anything else? Dave Mack, you need to tell me 161 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: before the panel weighs in anything else about the missive? 162 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: Did the was the location narrowed in any way other 163 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: than just south of the border, And what would south 164 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: of the border be? But do we know anything else 165 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: about the missive? 166 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 4: No, what we know is that south of the border, 167 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 4: it's a it's an assumption that is just over the border, 168 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 4: which is not a good assumption, Nancy. Somebody crosses the border, 169 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 4: they can take off in any direction they want to go. 170 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 4: This is merely a vague representation of what this individual 171 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 4: claims they saw in an attempt to get some money. 172 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 5: That's all it is. 173 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 4: And again, there's more to the email that we don't know. 174 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 4: We don't know all of the information. This is just 175 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 4: another sentence in that email received by DMAGA. 176 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: From looking at the map to me, south of if 177 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: you're in Arizona, directly south of the border, of course, 178 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: is Mexico, specifically Sonora to the south, Baja California to 179 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: the southwest. That's what I am assuming they're referring to it. 180 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: There's also Rocky Point that's Puerto Penasco. And just looking 181 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: along the border to see what else they could possibly 182 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: be referring to straight out to Kurt Dab, joining us 183 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: former detective there in Pima County with the Homicide Division. Kurt, 184 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What do you make 185 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: What would south of the border be from Pima County 186 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: what is considered south of the border. 187 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 7: To me, it would be directly south somewhere in Sonara, 188 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 7: whether it's Rocky Point to Aka perto Pinasco, maybe even 189 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 7: you know, as far southwest as Tijuana. I've investigated a 190 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 7: number of missing individuals that ended up south of the border. 191 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 7: We would usually get calls from the federal police saying, hey, 192 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 7: we located one of your you know, missing individuals. Usually 193 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 7: they were elderly, they have problems with dementia. So I 194 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 7: would hope that the investigators would reach out to the 195 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 7: Mexican authorities to help them, you know, track down this sighting. 196 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 2: If they haven't already. 197 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: Would the FANS be doing that current Dab or would 198 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: Nano's department be doing it? 199 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 5: Well? 200 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 7: From my understanding right now is they have a task 201 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 7: force working with homicide detectors from the Sheriff's department are 202 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 7: working in conjunction with the FBI at the FBI building. 203 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 7: So I'm assuming it would be that task force which 204 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 7: I think has had by the FBI. 205 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: Now joining us, Scott Iiker, digital forensics expert, founding member 206 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. He was also 207 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: with Norfolk Virginia PD for twelve years. Also he is 208 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: at Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, thank you for being with us. 209 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: What do you make of the alleged sighting. 210 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 8: Well, sightings are always great, as you mentioned before. Sometimes 211 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 8: they lead into great information and solving a case. But 212 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 8: a lot of times they're red herrings. So even though 213 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 8: we got to spend a lot of time doing those, 214 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 8: it's worth the time to track down each one of 215 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 8: those sightings just to try to vet them out. When 216 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 8: we did, I was dealing with Dylan RedWine down in Colorado, 217 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 8: missing boy. It was eventually killed by his father. We 218 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 8: had a lot of sightings of him, the boy Dylan, 219 00:12:54,440 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 8: even you know, months years after he went missing. Had 220 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 8: to track them down. 221 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: Guys, speaking of whether NANOS was is covering alleged signings 222 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: or is it the FEDS? Is NANOS too distracted to 223 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: find Nancy Guthrie to you, Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, 224 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: what can you tell me about a brand new whopper 225 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: lawsuit against nanas a million dollars. 226 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 4: Law shrinking number, a million dollar lawsuit coming from a 227 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,119 Speaker 4: former inmate at the Pima County Jail. In this lawsuit, 228 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 4: the Pima County Jail inmate claims that during COVID nineteen, 229 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 4: he was in the custody and his jail cell grouping 230 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 4: was exposed to a deputy who was working between one 231 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 4: jail cell that had a COVID positive inmates, and this 232 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 4: same sheriff's deputy was working between the COVID positive and 233 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 4: those who were not COVID positive in a separate cell, 234 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 4: and that this same jailer was going between the two groups, 235 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 4: basically spreading COVID all over the place. Because this individual 236 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 4: accuses the jailer of not wearing gloves, not cleaning his hands, 237 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 4: not cleaning himself after going into the cell with COVID 238 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 4: positive inmates, and then coming back into a cell that 239 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 4: had inmates who had not tested positive for COVID. That's 240 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 4: the million dollar lawsuit claiming they were put in physical 241 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 4: jeopardy with their lives on the line based on the 242 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 4: decisions made by the ny I. 243 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: Wonder if any of them actually got COVID, because if 244 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: none of them got COVID, they're barking up the wrong tree. 245 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: But between a million dollar lawsuit, which even if it 246 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: is meritless, you still have to pay thousands and thousands 247 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: of dollars to defend it. You got to hire a lawyer, 248 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: You got to give responses, You may have to give 249 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: a deposition. 250 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: He's got that hanging over his head. And of course 251 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 2: there's this the slow LA could turn fast and very quickly. 252 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 3: I don't want emergency. 253 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 7: The whole world going to this right now. 254 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 5: Well, your head's up. 255 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 8: This lawless out here, a Desert Law, and there's Wednesday, 256 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 8: January served that tent put a prime investigation on A 257 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 8: and E. 258 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 5: Watched next day on the A and E app. 259 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: That is from our friends at A and E and 260 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: their reality show Desert Law. Is it airing now in 261 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: the midst of Nancy Guthries the search for Nancy Guthrie? 262 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: Is it airing? 263 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 5: Oh yeah? 264 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 4: And the coverage of Nancy Guthrie's case going nationwide internationally 265 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 4: is actually causing a bump in the ratings for the show. 266 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, that's enough TV news. I want to 267 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: talk about Annie Guthrie's car. She has been the subject 268 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: online and beyond of a lot of scrutiny. This is 269 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's sister. Many people claiming she's actually the porch guy, 270 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: that her husband is responsible, a lot of unfounded claims. 271 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: This is from our friends at Fox News, and many 272 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: of those claims are based in the fact that any 273 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: Guthrie's car was confiscated and to many, many believe the 274 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: car is still in impound. Okay, what do you know, 275 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: Dave Matt. 276 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 4: Nancy, Any Guthries car was taken by the Sheriff's department 277 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 4: and has been searched, and has been searched and has 278 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 4: been searched. 279 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 5: The vehicle is not in the impound lot right now. 280 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 8: You know. 281 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 4: Last week the Sheriff's department said that the vehicle was 282 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 4: being released back two and it's not the case. The 283 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 4: vehicle is at the auto mechanic right now where it 284 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 4: is still in the custody of the PMA County Sheriff's Department, 285 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: not the Guthries, and is being worked on by this 286 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 4: auto mechanic out Nancy. When when a search form is 287 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 4: conducted on a vehicle, Dave Matt takes a lot of things. 288 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: Isn't it true when you say the car is being 289 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: worked on? Would a more accurate description be that it's 290 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: being put back together? Yes, after an exhaustive search. Yes, 291 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Why is it being put back together, Dave. 292 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 4: Matc Because it was taken apart while the Sheriff's department 293 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: and investigators were looking for evidence and it was. 294 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: But they're putting it back together in order. 295 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 5: To return it to the Guthries. 296 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: That's ah, I need the pliers again. First, Fus Gibbons, 297 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: now him. So are you telling me, Dave Matt that 298 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: your source says the car is being returned to any 299 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: Guthrie and it's been languishing in repair to put it 300 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: back together in order to give it back to Annie. 301 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 2: Is that correct? You know what this is called. 302 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: This is having to cross examine your own witness, typically 303 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: after you have them declared hostile on the stand. 304 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 2: I don't like doing that, but go ahead. 305 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 4: Well, yes, the Pema County Sheriff's Department has said they 306 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 4: are going to return the vehicle to the guth threes, 307 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: but that isn't being done yet, Nancy. They are still 308 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 4: in custody of the vehicle and it is at an 309 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 4: auto mechanics shop allegedly being put back together. But if 310 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 4: you go back and look at the statement made by 311 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 4: PMA County, they never said when the vehicle would be 312 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 4: returned to the Guthries, only that it would be at 313 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 4: some point in time in the future. The vehicle has 314 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 4: not been returned. It has been at the auto shop 315 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 4: being put back together. 316 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: To current to have joining us former detective Pema County 317 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: in the homicide division. And it's not easy to get 318 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: to homicide, by the way. First you start as a cadet, 319 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: then you're at a beat cop. Then you ultimately hopefully 320 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: get assigned somewhere, maybe in child support recovery, maybe hunting 321 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: down fugitives. You have to work up for a long 322 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: time to get into homicide. Okay, dab. When a vehicle 323 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: is confiscated, that is Sopie ste entered operating procedure. We 324 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,959 Speaker 1: know Anny Guthrie had her mom, Nancy Guthrie, in the 325 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: car that evening at some point we've been told, so 326 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: they probably wanted to look find out if there was 327 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: blood in the car, find out if there was anything unusual. 328 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: In the car. You would expect to find her. 329 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: DNA in the car because we know she had been 330 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: sitting in the car, like, there's my DNA in our 331 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: beat up minivan. But what were they looking for? 332 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: How long is. 333 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: The vehicle normally kept, and what's the timetable for returning 334 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: the vehicle? 335 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: Kurt dab. 336 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 7: Well, when you're collecting evidence in a case such as this, 337 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 7: you're going to keep that evidence until the case is completed, 338 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 7: and then you'll be able to determine what evidence gets returned, 339 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 7: you know, to suspects, witnesses, or other individuals that were interviewed, 340 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 7: the things that they could have been searching for. Obviously 341 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 7: they were searching for DNA, whether it be blood or 342 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 7: touch DNA. They're also probably going to download the computer 343 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 7: system on that vehicle. It's just surprising to me. In 344 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 7: the seven years that I spent in homicide, we never 345 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 7: took something and then fixed it and gave it back 346 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 7: to the people that we took it from. 347 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 5: So that's a little weird for me. 348 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 7: I would think that if they still held the car 349 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 7: in custody or in impound, that there's useful information there 350 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 7: and they're not going to release it back. So it's 351 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 7: a little perplexing to me as far as who's getting 352 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 7: the vehicle fixed. Who ordered it to be fixed before 353 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 7: returning it to the family, which still hasn't been done. 354 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 2: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. 355 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: To Scott Iiker joining US former FBI now a precision 356 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: cellular analysis. 357 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 2: They have to break down the car. 358 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: By the way, thanks Fox News for this video. They 359 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: have to break down the car, basically, take it apart, 360 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: take out the seeds, look under the seeds. They have 361 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: to wet, they have to vack the carpet, back the upholster. 362 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: I'm talking about MVAC for DNA, looking for DNA that 363 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: is invisible to the naked eye. They're looking for fibers, 364 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: They're looking for hair, They're looking for minuscule amounts of 365 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: blood or some other sort of DNA. They may even 366 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: be looking for soil, soil where Nancy may have been sitting. 367 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: We don't know what they were looking for, but I 368 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: do know the car has to be totally broken down. 369 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: Explain about breaking down a car and performing that type 370 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: of search. 371 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: It's particulous. 372 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 8: It is meticulous, and you have to think about, all right, 373 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 8: what type of case are we looking at. Are we 374 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 8: looking at a you know, a car that's been that 375 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 8: has compartments that you're hiding drugs in it. Well you've 376 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 8: seen that all the time. Is they tear up that 377 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 8: car pretty bad. I mean they're ripping out the dashboard, 378 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 8: they're ripping out everything. In this case, I wouldn't think 379 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 8: they're doing that much damage to the car. They might 380 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 8: get under some of the door panels, break some of 381 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 8: those little plastic things when they're taking off the door 382 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 8: panels to make sure they get everything, the DNA, the hair, 383 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 8: the fibers, everything, But it shouldn't be that much damage 384 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 8: to this type of car if all we have is 385 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 8: that she was later brought home in that car before 386 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 8: she went missing. So it gives me a red flag 387 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 8: that they've kept this car so long. 388 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: It does not give me a red flag because look 389 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: how long the DNA analysis is taking when you take down, 390 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: when you take a part of car like that. For 391 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: all I know, they were using the tires to make casts. 392 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: If you look at some of the original photos, I 393 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: know the driveway is gravel, partially gravel. Couple of aerial 394 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: views did show tracks right after the kidnapping. This is 395 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: from our friends at twelve News. For all I know, 396 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: they were making casts of those tracks comparing them to 397 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: the vehicle. Just a lot goes into that, and isn't 398 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: it true Brian Fitzgibbons joining us that in order to 399 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: make casts, think of your arm being put in a cast, right, 400 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: how long that takes and it has to solidify. That's 401 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: very much like making a cast of a tire. You 402 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: have to surround it. Just pretend paper mache, that's an 403 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: easy way to describe it or clay. Then you have 404 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: to remove it, let it dry, and then start comparing 405 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: it if they decide there's anything to it, if there 406 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: is a lead, if it matches, for instance, or possibly matches, 407 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: you have to keep the vehicle. You can't give it 408 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: back because it is now going to be states' evidence. 409 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: So a lot goes in to analyzing a vehicle in 410 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: a situation like this, because if you miss something technical 411 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: legal trum, you're screwed. 412 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 413 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 6: Absolutely, And you know as you're mentioning, these things all 414 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 6: take time and may require specialized teams to come in 415 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 6: and actually assess and analyze the evidence that's into or 416 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 6: potential evidence that's inside that vehicle. And I'll add one thing. 417 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 6: PMA County has been under a lot of pressure for 418 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 6: having returned to the residents a number of times, so 419 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 6: I think in this case they were learning from that 420 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 6: criticism that they're not going to give up this vehicle 421 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 6: until they're one hundred percent sure they're done with it. 422 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 9: Family always has to be rolled out. The inside knows 423 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 9: the most about Nancy. Why would she have to go 424 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 9: and grab some weeds from the garden and cover it. 425 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 9: It makes absolutely no sense. 426 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: That I guarantee you FBI has been three inches up 427 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: all of these children's tailpipes. A million dollar lawsuit or 428 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: reality show, a tip claiming that Nancy Guthrie has been 429 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: cited quote south of the Border. It's all swirling in 430 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: the search for Nancy Guthrie. Straight out to Scott Iiker, 431 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: founding member of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, here's a 432 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: new one. Let me throw this at you. Her hearing 433 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: aids absolutely can be tracked. Now we know one pair 434 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: of hearing aids were left behind, but many believe that 435 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: was her spare pair, that she was wearing hearing aids 436 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: when she left the home. Do we know that No, 437 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: but is there reason to believe that yes? If so, 438 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: can they be tracked? 439 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 8: And how Nancy? This is just like her pacemaker that 440 00:25:54,080 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 8: we were dealing with earlier on. It's Bluetooth connected connected debility, 441 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 8: so it can connect to your phone or to your 442 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 8: watch to kind of help you locate your hearing aids 443 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 8: within your house or in your car something like that. 444 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 8: But this is not long distance. Remember it's like, you know, 445 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 8: thirty to sixty feet you can get a Bluetooth signal. 446 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 8: With some special antennas, you might get further than that, 447 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 8: as we've seen them when they were searching for the 448 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 8: pacemaker signal, which was also Bluetooth. But we have to 449 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 8: run into the problem as do the hearing aids still 450 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 8: have power? You know, we know that pacemakers last for years, 451 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 8: but hearing aids you need to charge them quite often. 452 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 8: So if they are searching for her hearing aids, they're 453 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 8: using the Bluetooth scanner like they were doing for the pacemaker. 454 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 8: But again it's very short range and will not last 455 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 8: very long. We're into the sixth week now, surprisingly, if 456 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 8: those hearing aids would still be working. 457 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: But you can do historical tracking. Many many modern hearing 458 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: aids can be tracked using your smartphone app plus Bluetooth technology. 459 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: It can display the last known location on a map, 460 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: much like find my iPhone, Find my iPad. The apps 461 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: also show signal strength to help you find the hearing 462 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: aids within range, and they can provide GPS location data 463 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: even when they are out of range, out of range 464 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: of Bluetooth, providing the app was paired. How does it work? 465 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: You use basically a find my hearing a feature like 466 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: find my iPhone. When it's close. Apps show the proximity 467 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: bars or the signal strength. They show last no location. 468 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: They show if the hearing aid is disconnected or out 469 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: of range, like when you find your iPhone, it shows 470 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: you the amount of battery left. There are limitations because 471 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: the hearing aid it has to be paired with your phone. 472 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: That app's got to be running. So that's a lot 473 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: to take in. By the way, that video was showing 474 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: you from our friends at Fox News at this juncture 475 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: straight out to you, Brian Fitzgibbons, I mean we've got 476 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: to try everything. 477 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, I mean these Bluetooth signals we have, We've 478 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 6: talked extensively about the ability to potentially track the pacemaker 479 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 6: and now you know the hearing aids, it's certainly possible. Right, 480 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 6: What is the historical data? What was the last known 481 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 6: location was there a distance from Nancy's phone that could 482 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 6: help track this source? So you know it's certainly on 483 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 6: the table of something that needs to be looked at. 484 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: Well, when you say historical data, guys, this is from 485 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: our friends that blue fly on YouTube. When we keep 486 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:57,479 Speaker 1: referring to historical tracking, that means, let's see, how can 487 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 1: I explain this in a way like I would tell 488 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: a jury. For instance, when you have your child or 489 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: teen on Life three sixty, you can look and see 490 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: not just where they are at this moment, but you 491 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: can see where they've been. A little matt will show 492 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: they went here, they went to school, they went to 493 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: the grocery store, they went and got frozen yogurt, and 494 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: then they came home. You can see that there's a 495 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: line John the historical data, what happened in recent history. 496 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: That's what that means. 497 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: So when you hear experts talking about historical data, that's 498 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: all that means. 499 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 3: So let me. 500 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: Understand this, Scott Iker. Some hearing aids have apps like 501 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: find my iPhone, you know, like a tile you put 502 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: on your suitcase or whatever you're trying to keep up 503 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: with your car keys. 504 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: Is that how it works? 505 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 8: It is, it's similar to that, but you've got to 506 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 8: understand different devices have different capabilities. Not all hearing aids 507 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 8: have GPS. Most of them are just Bluetooth and can 508 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 8: and you get some historical data from Bluetooth devices sometimes 509 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 8: you can, depends on if it's a it's related to Google, 510 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 8: because Google does connect our track devices via Bluetooth and 511 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,959 Speaker 8: cellular and WiFi. 512 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: Scott, though, there are hearing aids that are paired with 513 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: your phone. That's if it is paired with your. 514 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: Phone, wouldn't it work like find my iPhone? 515 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 8: It will? But you know those little tiles that you 516 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 8: put in your are the air tags. They're not GPS, 517 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 8: they're Bluetooth, so it's reading all the Bluetooth a. 518 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: Minute, Wait a minute, Scott. 519 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: You can find your lost suitcase all around the world. 520 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: So if that's bluetooth, how does that work? 521 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: Because you're suggesting that Bluetooth is not as strong as 522 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: cellular and therefore we couldn't find her hearing ages if 523 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: in fact she was wearing them. 524 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 8: Bluetooth is short range, we understand that, but there's a 525 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 8: lot in the airports. There's a lot of Bluetooth capture 526 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 8: devices there. That's why they have of there to track 527 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 8: those type of air tags. So we can see those 528 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 8: air tags when they're at home and at at airport. 529 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 8: But if they're out in the middle of the field, 530 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 8: those air tags, you wouldn't be able to find them 531 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 8: because they're not giving out. There's no collection device, a 532 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 8: Bluetooth receiver to connect that device. 533 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Scott Iiker. 534 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: If the hearing aids are still functioning, and even if 535 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: they're the battery is dead by now, we would still 536 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: be able to get the historical data where it has 537 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: been before it went dead. You're telling me that would 538 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: exist if we're hearing aids were near any form of 539 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Bluetooth connection. 540 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 2: That's correct, Huh, A glimmer of hope. 541 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: They're comparing that shot of the porch guy to any 542 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: and saying that it's really Annie based on the whites 543 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: of the eyes of the perp. 544 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 9: That is not Annie walking up onto that fortune. Also, 545 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 9: wouldn't she know that camera existed? 546 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: An alleged signing a million dollar lawsuit against Sheriff Nano's 547 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: the reality show on the back burner? Is Nano's simply 548 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: too distracted to find Nancy Guthrie. How badly did the 549 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: delay in bringing in the FEDS hurt the search for 550 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: the eighty four year old grandmother and mother. Joining me 551 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: right now to answer a lot of questions is Tammy Ballard, 552 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: DNA crime scene consultant, crime scene investigation and reconstruction expert, 553 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: former DNA criminalist for the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab. 554 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: Tammy Ballard, thank you for being with us. I have 555 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: an issue Nanos keeps spouting off about DNA. We know 556 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: that there is stranger DNA inside Nancy Go's home. Found 557 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: inside her home, not a family member, not Nancy Guthrie, 558 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 1: not anyone that can be eliminated, such as the granny nannies. 559 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: What's the hold up? What are they doing at the lab? 560 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 10: So the laboratory is no doubt still evaluating additional samples. 561 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 10: I would assume they're going to evaluate that integrity of 562 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 10: the first results and whether or not they have mixtures, 563 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 10: whether or not they have data that they can use 564 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 10: to make comparisons to other individuals. If they do evaluate 565 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 10: that data and they realize that, okay, this could provide 566 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 10: good comparison data, then they're going to have to eliminate 567 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 10: all of the people that they have compared to before 568 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 10: those known samples from family members, law enforcement that may 569 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 10: have touched particular items. So there's a lot of complexity 570 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 10: involved to make sure that you're really identifying a potential perpetrator, 571 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 10: and hopefully they have enough of that data from the 572 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 10: original items they worked. But the second tier approach is 573 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 10: a very common one across laboratories. If you don't get 574 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 10: those great results on the front end, then you go 575 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 10: back and you dig deeper, see what more items can 576 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 10: be analyzed, and go from there. 577 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: I'm very curious Tammy Bell, and I'm going to circle 578 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: back on that topic regarding genetic genealogy family tree DNA 579 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: matches such as in the Golden State killer j as 580 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: of DiAngelo case. But give me an explanation if you can, 581 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: about that glove that was found about two point five 582 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. It was almost immediate 583 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: that Nano's came out and said, yeah, it's not connected. 584 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: It belongs to a restaurant employee nearby. How did they 585 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: get that back so quickly. 586 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 10: My guess would be that they either received information from 587 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 10: somebody that said, hey, this could be your person. They 588 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 10: obviously have some information that hasn't been provided to the 589 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 10: public such that they can do that direct comparison to 590 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 10: that individual and now say, Okay, this is the DNA 591 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 10: from this individual, and he's included or excluded from the investigation. 592 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 10: So they definitely have more information that they're not providing 593 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 10: to the public such that you know, they can make 594 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 10: those statements and now exclude that individual. 595 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: Which leads me back to the stranger DNA found inside 596 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: the home. If the lab is performing genetic genealogy, what 597 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: does that tell me? That tells me they have not 598 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: gotten a hit on CODIS, the Federal DNA Data Bank. 599 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: Then there are alternative data banks that allow to have 600 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: a lot lower standards. For instance, Tammy Ballard, and you 601 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: can explain this much better than me and the Codis 602 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: Data Bank. You have to make a very string criteria 603 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: in order for that DNA to put in to be 604 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: put into the data bank. Compared to the Arizona DNA 605 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: Data Bank, you can have all sorts of DNA can 606 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: be from a crime scene unresolved, it can be from victims, 607 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: it can be from bodies that have been found. 608 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 2: All sorts of. 609 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: DNA can go into the Arizona Data Bank. So once 610 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: you find first of all, let's explain that better than 611 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: I did. What's the difference in the criteria the standard 612 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: for the CODA Data Bank versus the Arizona State Data Bank. 613 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 10: Well, the Arizona State Data Bank is going to be 614 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 10: a CODAS database, but they can also have a local 615 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 10: CODAS database, they can have a state database, and then 616 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 10: you have the National CODAS database. Each one of those 617 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 10: is a tiered system because it's very important that the 618 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 10: quality of those profiles that enter into those data bases 619 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 10: will only be associated with a particular individual. If you 620 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 10: have millions and millions of people like you do in 621 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 10: the National CODEIS database, if you put in a mixture 622 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 10: of DNA that potentially is associated with fifty sixty seventy 623 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 10: different people, then you're no better off than you were before. 624 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 10: So you really have to put in very high quality 625 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 10: samples into each particular database. So the state database has 626 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 10: less individuals, allows for more ambiguity. You've got maybe some 627 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 10: more complex mixtures that can go into that database, and 628 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 10: then you can potentially associate with arrestees other cases that 629 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 10: have maybe some of those mixtures that aren't such high 630 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 10: quality either, so there's a lot more potential for a 631 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 10: hit or an association in those state databases, and definitely local. 632 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 10: San Diego had the largest local database in the entire state, 633 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 10: so we could put something in, run it and instantly 634 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 10: at your desktop. No, if you had an association at 635 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 10: the local level, So that also does help speed wise, 636 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 10: But they definitely should be maximizing all searches if at 637 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 10: all possible. 638 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 2: That said Tammy Ballard. 639 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: If they've had to come out of the code of 640 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 1: databases and go into genetic genealogy to find a match 641 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: to the stranger DNA found in Nancy Guthrie's home, that 642 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: could take how long? 643 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 10: Well, first, the positive news if there's genetic genealogy happening, 644 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 10: that means that the integrity of those samples is solid 645 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 10: enough to be able to go for the genealogy testing 646 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 10: the snip profile development, because that is one limitation of 647 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 10: or a potential limitation for genealogy at this point is 648 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 10: you cannot do the very complex mixtures like you can 649 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 10: with traditional DNA testing. So they must be working with 650 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 10: a mixture that is, you know, two very rare. There 651 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 10: might be a three person mixture if they can pull 652 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 10: somebody out. But the good news is if there is 653 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 10: genealogy going on. That means that there are some good 654 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 10: samples that were put forward. So why that can take 655 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 10: a long time is the development of the profile should 656 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 10: hopefully be you know, expedited. It should be a good 657 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 10: quality profile. But then with genealogy, you're only as good 658 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 10: as what's in the databases as well, and as how 659 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 10: many great genealogists are doing all of your legwork. You know, 660 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 10: you've got nationality differences, so if you've got different populations, 661 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 10: that may or may not be easier to provide that 662 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 10: information for genealogy. So there's a lot of actors involved, 663 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 10: but I guarantee of genealogy is going on. It's it's 664 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 10: happening on a very big team approach. 665 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 2: What about phenotyping, Tammy Ballard. 666 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 10: If you're talking about that, are you talking about the 667 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 10: facial recognition as far as like facial features, Yeah, that 668 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 10: that is I've seen some phenomenal work with that through 669 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 10: the years. We had a profile developed in San Diego 670 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,439 Speaker 10: for a violent rape murder case and I will tell 671 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 10: you that Parabond generated their snapshot technology and it was 672 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 10: it was spot on. So there there's definitely some value 673 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 10: in that. I think now that they have less it 674 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 10: seems like we have less individuals to compare to that, 675 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 10: and then maybe it's a multifaceted approach and you do 676 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 10: the phenotyping and snapshot is the recommendation for that for sure, 677 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 10: because even San Diego was a test lab for that, 678 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 10: which is pretty interesting. 679 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 1: Back in the day, straight out to Kurt Dab joining 680 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: us out of Tucson, former homicide detective in Pema County, 681 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:18,280 Speaker 1: what was the problem the slowdown on Anos's part bringing 682 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: in the Feds. 683 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 7: Well, that's a good question, Nancy. If I was in 684 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 7: charge of that case, they would have been at least 685 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 7: notified immediately. Contrary to popular belief. You know, there's not 686 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 7: a lot of kidnappings that occur in Pima County, and 687 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 7: those that are, they're usually drug cartel related or domestic 688 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 7: violence related. So the expertise with kidnapping obviously lies with 689 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 7: the FBI. I think that's one of the missteps that 690 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 7: Sheriff Dano's made and not contacting them originally and relying on, 691 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 7: you know, their investigator's lack of experience, if you will, 692 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 7: investigating a case is complicated. 693 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 2: As this, Kurt Dab. 694 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: Isn't it true that only one hundred and one out 695 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: of one hundred and ninety six on the force have 696 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: their full training. 697 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 5: Yeahs. 698 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 7: As far as patrol deputies, we have a one hundred 699 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 7: and ninety six patrol deputies on the Pema County Sheriff's Department, 700 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 7: and one hundred and one of those are still on probation, 701 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 7: which means they haven't passed their end of probation review 702 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 7: after the advanced academy. So it's pretty sad that the 703 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 7: department is this depleted, and what it leaves you is 704 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 7: a lot of inexperienced initial responders to a call like this. 705 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 7: They don't have the mentors that mentor cops you know 706 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 7: that have had ten or fifteen or even twenty or 707 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 7: more years on they're learning from young cops. So that's 708 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 7: where the mistakes, in my opinion, occurred early on in 709 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 7: the investigation. 710 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: You know, I've given Nanos a lot of hate Kurt Dab, 711 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: but I don't want to take away from the men 712 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: and women that are doing the searches. I don't want 713 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: them to be judged. I mean, I was in the trenches. 714 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: I was never an elected official like Nanos is. The 715 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,399 Speaker 1: people in the trenches are fighting and giving it their 716 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: best day in and day out, giving it there all. 717 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,240 Speaker 1: I don't want their efforts to be sullied. 718 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. 719 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 7: Even though they are young and inexperienced, the majority of 720 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 7: the agency, truthfully speaking, they're still hard working men and 721 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 7: women that know how to do the job. It's just 722 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 7: you have Sheriff Nanos and some of his antics makes 723 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 7: the entire agency look bad. Look, this is not Mayberry. 724 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 7: We are a medium to large size agency that covers 725 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 7: an area this size bigger than three states. So there 726 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 7: are a lot of hard working men and women. They're 727 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 7: doing the job. But sometimes when you have a lack 728 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 7: of experience in the field, those that are in the 729 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 7: command level staff, you know, end up making the calls 730 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 7: on the case. And I think that is some of 731 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 7: the things that happened or transpired early on in the investigation. 732 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: And you Scott Iiker joining us from Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, 733 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: what do you think is happening right now with all 734 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,240 Speaker 1: of the digital data. 735 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 8: They're still digging through all that digital data. I mean, 736 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 8: every time they get some new lead, they're going to 737 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 8: get some new digital data. They're going to down unload 738 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 8: phones as we're seeing with the cell right there, the 739 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,839 Speaker 8: Bluetooth snipper, all that stuff is continually working as new 740 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 8: leads come in, or they're going back through the thousands 741 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 8: of tips that they've had and going back and looking 742 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,799 Speaker 8: at Okay, yeah, this person has said this, all right, 743 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 8: let's go download their phone and see if that has 744 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 8: any value for it. Downloading cars. You know, they're still 745 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,240 Speaker 8: trying to deal with those visuals of those cars passing 746 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 8: by a neighbor's house. That's tough work trying to identify 747 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 8: the cars that are passing by so fast that night. 748 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 8: So I can see them still working this for a 749 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 8: long time in that aspect. 750 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: That earlier videos from our friends at Fox News and 751 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: the most recent from Fox Digital. If you know or 752 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: think you know anything regarding Nancy Guthrie s whereabouts, remember 753 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: a prosecution or even a rest is not necessary for 754 00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,840 Speaker 1: you to collect the reward. Dial toll free eight hundred 755 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,760 Speaker 1: two two five five three two four repeat one eight hundred, 756 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,439 Speaker 1: call FBI, or if you wish to remain anonymous five 757 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 1: to zero eight eight two seven four six three repeat 758 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: five two zero eight eight two seven four six three. 759 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 2: There is a one point. 760 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 1: Two plus million dollar reward for information leading to the 761 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: whereabouts of missus Guthrie. We remember American hero Deputy Sheriff 762 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 1: Kenneth Lewis, Fort ben County Sheriffs, Texas, killed in the 763 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: line of duty after serving eleven years, leaving behind three 764 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 1: grieving children. American hero Deputy Sheriff Kenneth Lewis. Thank you 765 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: to our guest tonight, especially to you for being with 766 00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: us and keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy 767 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: Gray signing off for tonight. 768 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 2: Good night for 769 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 10: Mm hmm.