1
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Weird House Cinema. My name is

3
00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 2: Joe McCormick. My regular co host, Robert Lamb is not

4
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 2: with me today, so I am being joined by a

5
00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,159
Speaker 2: guest someone who will be familiar to longtime listeners of

6
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,720
Speaker 2: the show, our former producer and friend, Seth Nicholas Johnson.

7
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 2: How are you doing, Seth?

8
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 3: Hello? Everyone, I'm doing great. Happy to be back again,

9
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 3: and I'm glad to still be a part of the

10
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,600
Speaker 3: you know, Stuff to Blow your Mind family.

11
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,320
Speaker 2: Oh, it's really great to have you back, man. Yeah.

12
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,160
Speaker 2: So the movie we're going to be talking about today

13
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 2: is a movie you suggested, Seth, one that I had

14
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 2: never seen before, and I am thrilled to discuss it

15
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 2: today because it is so strange and so interesting. Today's

16
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,360
Speaker 2: film is the nineteen sixty eight psychedelic musical comedy Head,

17
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 2: starring the TV musical act The Monkeys, and people may

18
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,759
Speaker 2: say they monkey around, but the important thing to understand

19
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 2: is that being a monkey is a pact with Satan,

20
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 2: cursing you to a dreadful existence of meaninglessness and unfreedom.

21
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:21,919
Speaker 2: But also it's all for a laugh.

22
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,039
Speaker 3: You know, they monkey around a lot in this movie.

23
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,759
Speaker 3: Like if a reviewer simply wrote that after they saw

24
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,279
Speaker 3: the film, you know these boys, they really monkey around,

25
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,280
Speaker 3: they'd be correct. That is what's happening throughout the entire

26
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,040
Speaker 3: eighty six minutes of this film.

27
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,400
Speaker 2: But what's not true is that they're too busy singing

28
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 2: to put anybody down. This movie sort of does put

29
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,960
Speaker 2: a lot of people in things down, including the monkeys

30
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 2: and the creators of the monkeys, true, and everything that

31
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 2: enabled the monkeys to happen, and the fans of the monkeys,

32
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 2: and war and consumerism and the broader culture and basically everything.

33
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 2: It's a shocking indictment of humankind.

34
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 3: It's very true.

35
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,919
Speaker 2: So I first of all had no idea this movie

36
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 2: was going to have such dark threads running through it,

37
00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,920
Speaker 2: or that it would be as funny as it was.

38
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 2: But I previously actually didn't know much about the Monkeys.

39
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,640
Speaker 2: I didn't like grow up watching the show or anything

40
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 2: I knew, you know, so the songs that would play

41
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,760
Speaker 2: on the radio and stuff. So before we get into

42
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 2: discussing the film itself, Sethlake, what is your pre existing

43
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 2: relationship with the Monkeys and did that have anything to

44
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,720
Speaker 2: do with you suggesting this movie for today.

45
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 3: Definitely, I grew up on the TV show. Well obviously

46
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,519
Speaker 3: on the reruns. I wasn't around for the first round.

47
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 3: But if folks don't know, around the mid to late eighties,

48
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 3: MTV started replaying old episodes of The Monkeys simp believe

49
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 3: it was like the thirtieth anniversary, twentieth anniversary, something like that,

50
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 3: And when that happened, yeah, I guess would have been

51
00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,520
Speaker 3: the twentieth anniversary sixties, seventies, eighties, correct anniversary on MTV.

52
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 3: They had a bunch of reunions and they played the

53
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 3: TV Show and there was like a second wave of

54
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 3: Monkey Mania, and this was kind of a big bolster,

55
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 3: not only to their record sales, some of their albums

56
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 3: like re entered the charts and stuff like that, but

57
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 3: in addition to that, they started doing reunion tours like

58
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 3: the Monkeys came back in the mid to late eighties,

59
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 3: and I guess I was influenced by that as a

60
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 3: as a small child, because I watched those reruns and

61
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,920
Speaker 3: fell in love with it and just like the humor

62
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,799
Speaker 3: and the silliness, and honestly also the quality of the

63
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 3: music really won me over as a child and it

64
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 3: stuck with me for a long time. And eventually, when

65
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 3: I did become old enough to start like you know,

66
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 3: buying my own albums and like caring about music, I

67
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 3: was like, you know, some of these Monkeys albums are great.

68
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,600
Speaker 3: So then I went like through the effort of actually

69
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 3: like learning the history of them and when they took

70
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 3: over and started, you know, being in control of their

71
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 3: own music compared with when they just had a bunch

72
00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 3: of like you know, studio heads telling them what they

73
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 3: had to do, and what the difference between that sound was. Like,

74
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 3: I really did a deep dive and just to just

75
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 3: to you know, educate myself. And yeah, I would call

76
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 3: myself a big Monkeys fan. I have seen my personal

77
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 3: favorite Monkey, Mike Nesmyth, in concert multiple times, and you

78
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 3: know what, that's what I'll definitely say. I'm an enormous

79
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 3: Mike Nesmyth fan, and Mike Nesmyth used to be in

80
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 3: the Monkeys, That's what I'll say.

81
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 2: It is surprising when you go back and listen how

82
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,919
Speaker 2: good a lot of these songs are, like well written

83
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 2: pop tunes. Yeah, And I honestly Seth thought you might

84
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 2: say that you're on Ramp to the Monkeys was the

85
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 2: smash Mouth cover in the Shrek soundtrack. I'm a believer.

86
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm quite young enough for that. I'm

87
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,720
Speaker 3: sure the generation below us would definitely say that. But

88
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 3: now I was brought on board with the reruns on

89
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,440
Speaker 3: a MTV back in the late eighties.

90
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, was that song. By the way, this would be

91
00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 2: a good segue to the fact that actually a lot

92
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,239
Speaker 2: of the great Monkeys tunes that we know were written

93
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 2: by people who would go on to become great, you know, musicians,

94
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 2: well known stars and songwriters in their own right. I

95
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 2: think I'm a believer who was written by Neil Diamond,

96
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 2: wasn't it.

97
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 3: I believe there is some truth to that. I can't

98
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,799
Speaker 3: remember if it was originally intended to be a Neil

99
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,160
Speaker 3: Diamond song originally, but yeah, there was a bunch of

100
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,479
Speaker 3: that kind of like flip flopping back and forth back then.

101
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 3: But he was definitely involved, that's for sure.

102
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, But other songs of the Monkeys were written by

103
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,200
Speaker 2: like Carol King and collaborators. So, like, there are several

104
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: Carol King songs that pop up in this movie, and

105
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 2: they're fantastic. Probably one of the best songs in the movie.

106
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,640
Speaker 2: The Porpoise song is a Carol King and I forget

107
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 2: the collaborator to his name will come up later.

108
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,960
Speaker 3: Harry Nielsen too. They had some really good Harry Nielsen

109
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 3: collaborations in the future. And not to you know, harp

110
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,520
Speaker 3: too much on my favorite monkey, Michael Nesmith. But Michael

111
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,120
Speaker 3: Nesmyth definitely wrote all of the best Monkeys songs. Well,

112
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,679
Speaker 3: we'll hear at least one in this movie, a Circle Sky.

113
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 3: But when you hear that that Texas twang out of

114
00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 3: Mike Nesmyth's mouth, you know, you know it's a Nesmuth original.

115
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 3: And man, he writes a damn fine song. If folks

116
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 3: don't know he was, well, well, we'll get to this later.

117
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,479
Speaker 3: But he was already a famous songwriter before he joined

118
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,480
Speaker 3: the Monkeys, like, for example, he wrote Linda Ronstadt's Different Drum.

119
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 3: You know that song that's a Mesmith original? Yes, yeah,

120
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 3: uh yeah.

121
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,359
Speaker 2: Okay, So we'll have to talk about the different elements

122
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,480
Speaker 2: as we go along, But maybe before we go into

123
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 2: the history of the Monkeys and what the monkeys mean,

124
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 2: we should just give a brief description of what is head,

125
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 2: What is this movie? It is hard to describe, but

126
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,720
Speaker 2: I think the way I would put it is that

127
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,640
Speaker 2: it is a nonlinear mad cap comedy starring the mid

128
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,280
Speaker 2: sixties made for TV band the Monkeys as themselves or

129
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,560
Speaker 2: as the slightly fictionalized versions of themselves that were that

130
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 2: were the Monkeys, or actually you might say as like

131
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 2: a second order character, like a a second order fictionalized

132
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 2: version of the Monkeys that appears in this movie to

133
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 2: sort of comment on the characters that they played in

134
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 2: the show. Does that make any sense?

135
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 3: It absolutely does. And you know, I was just thinking

136
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 3: to myself, what other structures around this time were happening,

137
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 3: And here's something that I don't believe this can be

138
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 3: connected because the timelines are too similar. I think it

139
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 3: was probably just like the vibe going through the air was.

140
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 3: Did you ever used to watch Rowan and Martin's laugh.

141
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 2: In I think I've seen like one episode of it.

142
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 3: I had pointing out how old I am, But I

143
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 3: definitely used to watch reruns of Rowan and Martin's Laughing

144
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 3: back in the day, and it has that same highly gosh,

145
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 3: how to even put it, because there's a combination of psychedelia,

146
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 3: corny old jokes, rapid succession from like shot to shot,

147
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 3: very little from thing to thing, and that show came

148
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 3: out in nineteen sixty eight, the same year as this movie.

149
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 3: So okay, I'm not claiming that there's any connection there,

150
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 3: but I do think there must have been something in

151
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 3: the water that made people feel that this was like

152
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 3: where the pendulum was swinging, that this was the kind

153
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 3: of structure that was needed in the world.

154
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 2: Or something in the kool aid yea, the electric kool

155
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 2: aid exactly there, I think it would be. In fact,

156
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 2: I was going to say it would be hard to

157
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,280
Speaker 2: deny the drug influences on this movie, but in fact

158
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,199
Speaker 2: you couldn't. Even Like the creators have explicitly said this

159
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 2: movie was fueled by psychedelic drugs. Like Bob Rayfelson, who

160
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 2: will talk about in a bit, has given interviews extensively

161
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 2: talking about how much the use of drugs like marijuana

162
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,520
Speaker 2: and LSD played into the creative process that led to

163
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 2: this film. I don't know how much for the monkeys themselves,

164
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 2: but for the writers and the director certainly this is

165
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 2: a very psychedelic forward comedy comedy film. But also so yeah,

166
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,960
Speaker 2: you get that very like only loosely logically connected or

167
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 2: sometimes totally logically unconnected sequence of images and scenes. But

168
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,400
Speaker 2: also I just wanted to run down like a list

169
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 2: of things that this movie does. What these these comedic

170
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 2: episodes in the movie do so, they satirize American media,

171
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:35,560
Speaker 2: especially like movies and TV with traditional square storytelling genres

172
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 2: like westerns and war movies. But also they they satirize

173
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 2: American advertising and just the general landscape of the media,

174
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 2: news report reports and stuff like that. But also these

175
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,080
Speaker 2: there are several points in the movie that quite viscerally

176
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 2: critique the morality of US involvement in the Vietnam War

177
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:03,199
Speaker 2: with like truly shocking imagery. But then the movie also

178
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 2: experiments with psychedelic music and imagery styles. I think if

179
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,360
Speaker 2: I was going to offer some critiques of this film,

180
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,679
Speaker 2: one of them would be that I think they got

181
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 2: a little too excited about the solarization effect. I don't

182
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 2: know if that's quite as cool as they thought it was.

183
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 3: Right for sure, I felt the same thing. Eventually, it

184
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,319
Speaker 3: was just a one throwoff moment, so I doubt we'll

185
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,599
Speaker 3: be referencing it directly. There was a scene with a

186
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,800
Speaker 3: bunch of mylar balloons floating around, and I think they

187
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,319
Speaker 3: thought it would blow our minds, and I was like, nah,

188
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 3: we know what my lar balloons are. It's fine.

189
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,280
Speaker 2: But then along with all that we get traditional song

190
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 2: and dance numbers. There's even like a Broadway show tune

191
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,319
Speaker 2: kind of number in it. That's fantastic that there are

192
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,040
Speaker 2: just like constant detours into corny non sequitor jokes. Like

193
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 2: the jokes are not all you know, like dark, incisive comedy.

194
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,960
Speaker 2: A lot of it is just really the bottom of

195
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 2: the barrel kind of just the silliest puns and stuff.

196
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,559
Speaker 3: And like you said too, the non sequitur nonsensical nature.

197
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 3: Some of the humor is some of my favorites too.

198
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,040
Speaker 3: One of my favorites I'll mention later. It's early in

199
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,840
Speaker 3: the movie, so I'll bring it up later. But a

200
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,120
Speaker 3: lot of it is just good timing and good editing

201
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 3: with just like odd creative choices, especially captions. They use

202
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,079
Speaker 3: a lot of odd text on screen captions and editing

203
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,959
Speaker 3: choices that are fascinating.

204
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,400
Speaker 2: Oh like when the guy says to Mickey Dolan's.

205
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that yeah, that happens early in the movie.

206
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 3: We'll mention that scene soon, but that that genuinely made

207
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 3: me laugh out loud. That's that we'll mention soon, Okay.

208
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 2: But another big thing this movie does is it meditates on,

209
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:53,200
Speaker 2: I would say, from the movie's perspective, the genuinely quite terrifying,

210
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 2: implied psychic undercurrents of Beatlemania and monkey mania. The movie

211
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 2: almost suggest there is something like threatening and fascist about

212
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 2: the adulation of bands like this. And then also it

213
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 2: meditates on the meaninglessness of the Monkeys as a concept,

214
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 2: and on the meaninglessness of life, and on illusions of freedom.

215
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,160
Speaker 2: But also it's funny.

216
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 3: It's very true. It's it's genuinely a funny film. And

217
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,760
Speaker 3: it's amazing how they balance all of these pieces, that

218
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,600
Speaker 3: it can be this dark, this unconnected, but also this

219
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 3: watchable and this funny. It's it's actually quite masterful in

220
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,720
Speaker 3: many ways. Yeah.

221
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,960
Speaker 2: So in otherwise though, I mean, it's it's a movie

222
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 2: clearly made in the sixties, and like the sixties are

223
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 2: just wafting through it. So it is very dated in

224
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. But in other ways it stands

225
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 2: out as surprisingly fresh and good and even shockingly, as

226
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 2: I said earlier, sharp with its satire. Sometimes it's hard

227
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 2: for me to think of another movie be quite like this. Agreed,

228
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:38,439
Speaker 2: Maybe we should hear some trailer audio.

229
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,839
Speaker 4: Not since the Ten Commandments.

230
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 5: If you liked Covered Wagon Beyond from Here to Eternity.

231
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 5: They can't be the Marx Brothers.

232
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:50,320
Speaker 4: They're too young. Columbia Pictures presents the Monkeys Mickey, Davey,

233
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 4: Mike Peter in Head. That's right, Head, what's it all about?

234
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 4: Only Victor Mature's hair dresser knows for sure. Head is

235
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 4: the most extraordinary adventure, western comedy, love story, this greed, drama, musical, documentary,

236
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 4: satire ever filmed.

237
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 2: All Right, So this is the part of the episode

238
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 2: we usually call connections where we talk about some people involved.

239
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 2: There were a lot of people involved in this movie.

240
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 2: It has a ton of cameos that we can't possibly

241
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 2: name them all, but we'll try to talk through some

242
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:37,880
Speaker 2: of the main figures and then maybe we'll hit on

243
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 2: some other things as we go through the plot a

244
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 2: little bit. The plot quote, It doesn't have a plot,

245
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 2: but as we talk about what happens on screen. The

246
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,320
Speaker 2: director and writer of this film as a guy named

247
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 2: Bob Rafelson who lived in nineteen thirty three through twenty

248
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 2: twenty two. He was an American director, writer, and producer.

249
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,479
Speaker 2: Head was his first feature film, though he had previously

250
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 2: worked on TV as one of the creators of The

251
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,760
Speaker 2: Monkeys TV series for NBC in nineteen sixty five sixty six.

252
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 2: I think maybe he created it in sixty five and

253
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 2: it debuted in sixty six, I believe. But he would

254
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 2: later go on to be best known as a director

255
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 2: of films like Five Ez Pieces in nineteen seventy, which

256
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 2: he directed and co wrote with Carol Eastman and which

257
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 2: starred Jack Nicholson and Karen Black. He also directed the

258
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,960
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one adaptation of The Postman Always Rings Twice.

259
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 2: This is a story that was made had multiple movie

260
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 2: versions over the years, this version starring again Jack Nicholson

261
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 2: and Jessica Long, and then he also did The King

262
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 2: of Marvin Gardens in nineteen seventy two. Stay Hungry in

263
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, a film starring Jeff Bridges and Sally Field,

264
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 2: but also Arnold Schwarzenegger in a straight dramatic role. This

265
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 2: was I think his first movie after he appeared as

266
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 2: Arnold's strong in that Hercules film.

267
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 3: I've never seen that, and I'm actually kind of curious too.

268
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,359
Speaker 3: That sounds pretty fascinating.

269
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like it's not an action movie at all.

270
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 2: Arnold Schwarzenegger plays like a guy who either owns or

271
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 2: manages a gym and a gym I think somewhere in Alabama.

272
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 2: And Jeff Bridges is like a shady real estate developer

273
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 2: who's trying to like scam him into selling the gem

274
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,160
Speaker 2: property for some reason.

275
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 3: Fascinating And I bet this would have been technically the

276
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,720
Speaker 3: first time his voice was on film, because wasn't he

277
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 3: dubbed in that Hercules movie? Oh?

278
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 2: I bet he was. Yeah, that's sounds familiar. Yeah.

279
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 3: Interesting.

280
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: Rafelson also directed Black Widow in eighty seven, which is

281
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 2: a sort of neo noir movie. I think that has

282
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 2: a Deborah Winger in it. Andy did the nineteen ninety

283
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 2: biographical film Mountains of the Moon, about the journeys of Richard,

284
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 2: Francis Burton and John Hanning. Speak Rafelson along with his

285
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 2: partner Bert Schneider. They also provided funding for the production

286
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 2: of Easy Rider in nineteen sixty nine, which was huge.

287
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,920
Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to overstate the impact Easy Rider

288
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 2: on the film industry. It was hugely influential independent film

289
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,119
Speaker 2: and a kind of frozen in time snapshot of the

290
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 2: feeling of an era, that era being the late sixties counterculture,

291
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 2: and together with another producer named Steve Blouner, Rafelson and

292
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 2: Schneider would found a company called BBS Productions, which from

293
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 2: what I understand, they entered into an agreement with Columbia

294
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 2: Pictures to finance films without allowing creative interference by the studios.

295
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 2: And I think this is seen by some as like

296
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,880
Speaker 2: an important component in the evolution of the new Hollywood

297
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,400
Speaker 2: of the nineteen seventies, which was more it was sort

298
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,919
Speaker 2: of less focused on creative control by the studio and

299
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 2: more focused on creative control by the directors and filmmakers.

300
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 2: But before all that, Rafelson made The Monkeys. When I

301
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,199
Speaker 2: as a kid and I was aware of, you know,

302
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 2: the Monkeys, that I knew their songs from the radio

303
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 2: and stuff, I actually did not realize that they were

304
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 2: a band created for television. And I don't know if

305
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 2: this qualifies them as a quote fictional band, because I

306
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: was talking about this with my wife Rachel. We watched

307
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 2: the movie together and we were talking about, like, what

308
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,159
Speaker 2: does it mean for a band to be fictional? At

309
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 2: least what you can say about the Monkeys is they

310
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,400
Speaker 2: are not a band that formed by musicians on their

311
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 2: own right. They were formed for a project that was

312
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 2: organized by someone else, and originally not all members of

313
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 2: the band played their instruments and wrote songs, though they

314
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: would kind of grow into different roles. But because of

315
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: that like growth and coming more into musicianship over time,

316
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 2: I guess you might say that they could in some

317
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 2: sense be considered a quote real band, whatever that means.

318
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 2: But at least at the beginning, Yeah, they did not

319
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,879
Speaker 2: all write songs or play instruments the way I understand it,

320
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 2: and Seeth you can correct me if I'm wrong. I

321
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 2: think Mike Nesmith and Peter Tork played instruments, and Nesmith

322
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 2: alone had written songs, but the others were kind of

323
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 2: new to music in this way.

324
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 3: Kind Of one way that Mickey Dolans would often kind

325
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 3: of make an analogy for the situation was that they

326
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 3: hired Leonard Nimoy to play a vulcan, and eventually they

327
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 3: had to actually become a vulcan. That was their job.

328
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 3: And so let's see here, Davy Jones was a Broadway

329
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,399
Speaker 3: guy like he was. He got really popular because he

330
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 3: was the artful dodger in Oliver that was like his

331
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 3: like claimed defect fits. Yeah, exactly, your salesman. Yeah, very

332
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 3: very like soft shoe. That's his thing, and that's kind

333
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 3: of the role that he kind of kept throughout the movie.

334
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 3: In fact, Zappa Frank Zappa makes a great cameo later

335
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 3: and makes reference to that in the film, which we'll

336
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: we'll get there. But so, yeah, that was his background.

337
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 3: He could he could do like Broadway type singing, but

338
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 3: he wasn't really a musician. And when you see him

339
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 3: on the Monkeys, he's usually playing like the tambourine or

340
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 3: the moroccas or something like that. But he's sort of

341
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,880
Speaker 3: the lead singer exactly, although technically, if you go by

342
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 3: the numbers, Mickey Dolan's sang more than anyone. But but anyway, anyway, anyway,

343
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 3: so then we had Mike Nesmith, who was the full

344
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 3: blown real musician. He was making a living as a musician,

345
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 3: that was his job. And then Peter Tork definitely hung

346
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 3: out with hippies. In fact, the only reason he came

347
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 3: to the Monkeys was that his friend Stephen Stills had

348
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 3: auditioned been rejected, and then Stephen Stills said to Peter Tork, hey, man,

349
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 3: I think you're actually what they're looking for you should

350
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: go you should go check this out. And that's how

351
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 3: that happened.

352
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 2: I heard that. Yeah, the way I heard it put

353
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 2: was that he was like a younger, cuter version of

354
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 2: Stephen Still.

355
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. He's like, they weren't into this, but you might,

356
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 3: you might get it. Go ahead, Yeah, And then yes,

357
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 3: mick Key Dolan's was a child actor. So he was

358
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 3: the star of a television show called Circus Boy, I believe,

359
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 3: and so he was already like deep inside like the

360
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: Hollywood scene, and he had some experience I believe playing guitar,

361
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 3: but nothing else. And then as a default, when the

362
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 3: band kind of got together, they were like, someone has

363
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 3: to sit behind the drums. Mickey, that's you. And he's like,

364
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 3: I don't know how to play the drums. He's like, well,

365
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 3: you don't know how to play anything, You'll figure it out.

366
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 3: So Mickey by default had to learn how to be

367
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 3: the drummer. Okay, yeah, so yeah, yeah, they all had

368
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 3: some experience, but Nesmuth was the only real musician there.

369
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 3: But so they were.

370
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 2: The Monkeys were created by Rafelson and Schneider to pitch

371
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: as a show for NBC that would be like a

372
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 2: sitcom about a struggling folk rock band in California. But

373
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 2: it was, from what I understand, very much based on

374
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: Beatlemania and the success of the Beatles, maybe the Beatles

375
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: movies at that point.

376
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, let's go. Let's go a little bit into

377
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 3: the history here. And in fact, when he first pitched

378
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: this series, Rafelson, he pitched with the band The Love

379
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 3: and Spoonful. He said, this will be the band that

380
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 3: we will focus on, and that fell apart for who

381
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: knows how many reasons, and rumor has it? Who knows,

382
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, what's the saying there are many

383
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 3: fathers to a creative idea or something like that, you know,

384
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 3: whatever that phrase.

385
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: Is, success has a million fathers or something.

386
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: Something like that. Who knows the absolute truth behind all

387
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 3: of this. But Rafelson said that he did have the

388
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 3: idea for the Monkeys actually long before Beatlemania, but then

389
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 3: he had the clout to start pitching at it around

390
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 3: after the Beatles nineteen sixty four film A Hard Day's

391
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: Night hit the theaters and was a big success. It's

392
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 3: a very simple film. It basically just shows the Beatles

393
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: preparing for a concert and then they have some wacky

394
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 3: adventures along the way to their oncerts, with many little

395
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: musical interludes peppered throughout, but probably because it happened in

396
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: the height of Beatlemania, and also because it actually is

397
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 3: a genuinely good movie. Have you ever seen Hard Day's

398
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 3: Night before, Joe?

399
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 2: No. Strangely enough, the only one of the Beatles films

400
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: I've seen is Yellow Submarine, so I haven't seen. Yeah,

401
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: I have not seen Hard Day's Night, or I think

402
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 2: the other one from just a year later, which was.

403
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: Help, Help, is also quite good. And then also there's

404
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 3: one more which was more or less a concert film,

405
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 3: which was the Magical Mystery Tour. That one also exists.

406
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: But Harday's Night is actually quite good. If anyone the

407
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 3: audience hasn't seen it, I recommend it's actually a Criterion pick,

408
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 3: I believe. And so that was a big commercial and

409
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 3: critical success, and so based on that success, Bob Rafelson,

410
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: are you pronouncing it? Rayfulson? Is that? Is that what

411
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: we're going with?

412
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: I like that, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's what

413
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 2: That's what I heard Jack Nicholson say in an interview.

414
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: So I assume he's right because they were friends.

415
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: Exactly let's go with Rafelson. So Bob Rafelson then, based

416
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 3: on this success, was able to go around to the

417
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: studios and be like, hey, you saw that success, we

418
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 3: want to do that for TV. Let's do that. So

419
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 3: Bob Rafelson and as you mentioned earlier, Bert Schneider, they

420
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 3: were able to sell this concept to television, and the

421
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 3: concept was four charming musicians lived together and they have

422
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: wacky adventures just like just like a hard day's night.

423
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 3: And so this come is going to be called The Monkeys,

424
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 3: and basically it would a premiere September twelfth, nineteen sixty six.

425
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 3: They had a open cast and call, and they basically

426
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: had auditions with hundreds and hundreds of musicians which they

427
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 3: filmed actually, and they actually include some of that footage

428
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: in the TV show The Monkeys, which is actually very

429
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: charming and very entertaining. And they wound up hiring the

430
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 3: four that we've mentioned, Mickey Dolan's, Peter Tork, Michael Nosmith,

431
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 3: Davey Jones. Now, all four actors had some experience, like

432
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 3: we mentioned, but the only one amongst them that was like, no,

433
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: I'm a musician and I care about music was Mike Nesmyth.

434
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: These four, they were hired to be actors pretending to

435
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: be musicians. They were not hired to be musicians. All

436
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 3: the music from the show was going to be written

437
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 3: and recorded by quote unquote real musicians behind the scenes,

438
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: and these four actors were going to provide the singing voices,

439
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: and that's it. They were not. The creators had no

440
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 3: interest in this. I can go to much deeper detail

441
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: about the fights they had with like the original music

442
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 3: producers and all this other stuff, but another time, another time.

443
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: But basically, the first two albums that they recorded that

444
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 3: would have been nineteen sixty six Is the Monkeys and

445
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven's More of the Monkeys. These functioned as

446
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: like the soundtrack for season one of the TV show,

447
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: And eventually it just kind of came out that this

448
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 3: was all phony, this scripted TV show wasn't real. This

449
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 3: was how dark there so the audience they felt deceived.

450
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: They felt that like they had been sold a bill

451
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: of goods that was not genuine, and so then they

452
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: had to kind of like there was a backlash against

453
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: them now in defense of the Monkeys themselves. Nesmuth actually

454
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 3: complained about this pretty early on. For example, on the

455
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: first record the Monkeys. If you look at it, it

456
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: looks like just a genuine record from a band. There's

457
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 3: no like liner notes showing which musicians played on it

458
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: and who wrote and blah blah blah blah blah. It

459
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 3: looks like the Monkeys made this record. And he complained

460
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: about that. He said, you're fooling these people. He's like,

461
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: you're making them think that we're a real band by design,

462
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: and that's not going to work out in the long term.

463
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: I can see that, Okay. So I would have thought

464
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: it would be silly to be mad at this TV

465
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: band for not being what is portrayed as because it's

466
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: obviously a fictional show and all that. But I guess

467
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: I would feel differently if yeah, I can unders saying like,

468
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: if you put out a record in the liner notes,

469
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: don't give credit to the people who actually played on

470
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: the songs and all that, that would feel more like

471
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: a true deception exactly.

472
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 3: And so that's what happened on the first two albums,

473
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 3: and the Monkeys basically put their foot down. This is

474
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 3: in between seasons one and two, and they were like,

475
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: we want more creative control, especially over the music, but

476
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 3: in general, you know, if we are the Monkeys and

477
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: this is a hit, and it was a hit. Then

478
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 3: we want, you know, to feel like we are getting

479
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: our voice put through here and not feel like frauds,

480
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 3: not feel like hacks, you know. So that's what happened,

481
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: and they were able to start making their own music

482
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: and really focus on everything themselves, and that started with

483
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: their third album, Headquarters. And you know, based on whatever,

484
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: a different situation you want to say, after that season

485
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 3: where they took control, the series was canceled. So I

486
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: don't think we can fully blame that on the Monkeys,

487
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 3: but hey, that is something that definitely happened. And then

488
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: the next step after their TV show was canceled, Hey

489
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 3: let's make a feature length film. And that's the movie

490
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: that we're talking about today. And so after the commercial

491
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: and critical failure of head the movie we're talking about today,

492
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: the Monkeys then started a long series of breaking up

493
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: and getting back together and having a reunion and hey,

494
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: this time the Monkeys are just two people, and hey,

495
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: this time the Monkeys are three people. And basically every

496
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: combination you could imagine of those four either being together

497
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: or a part it happened at one point or another.

498
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 3: And in fact, there was this great joke made at

499
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 3: some point. This would have been in the early seventies,

500
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: where so Peter Tork was the first Monkey to quit.

501
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: This was after the movie came out. Then Nesmuth quit

502
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: soon after that, and so each Monkey's album for a

503
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: while there just had one fewer member. There was one

504
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: with just three, then there was one with two. And

505
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: then when a reviewer reviewed the album that just had

506
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 3: Mickey Dolan's and Davy Jones on and he's like, I'm

507
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: pretty sure the next album is just to be called

508
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: the Monkey and I was like, that's pretty good, that's

509
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: pretty funny. So so this happened on again, off again

510
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 3: for years and years. They had different like moments of

511
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: nostalgic popularity again. They even got back together to record

512
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: new albums at different points throughout their career. Some of

513
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: those are actually quite good, some of them not so much.

514
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: And this all kind of ended for sure for sure

515
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 3: in their final farewell tour that was just Nesmuth and

516
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: Dolan's and that tour ended in twenty twenty one, and

517
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: then the third of the Monkeys, Mike Nesmyth, he died.

518
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: So I believe Davy Jones was first. Peter Tork was second,

519
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: Mike Nesmyth was third, and Dolan's is our last living

520
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: monkey at this current date on twenty twenty four.

521
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, I did want to come back and emphasize

522
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: though there's one. Even though we're talking about how the

523
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: you know, the there was this frustration with the fact

524
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: that the creative direction of the music was mostly given

525
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: from the studio, originally from the television studio, and not

526
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: from the Monkeys themselves. I don't think we should undersell

527
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: the importance of the Monkeys, like the individual guys in

528
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: the band, as as as like what made the show popular,

529
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: because Rayfelson talks about how when they first put together

530
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: the pilot episode, they had only the scripted elements in it,

531
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: and the executives and test audiences whoever, everybody who looked

532
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: at it hated it. They were like terrible, awful. And

533
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: then he made a change. And the only change he

534
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: made was he inserted what you were talking about, some

535
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: of the interviews that were totally unscripted, just conversations, interviews

536
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: with the guys in the band when they were like

537
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: auditioning for the roles, and that completely changed the reaction.

538
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: Everybody loved it, and so it was like the original

539
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: personal charm of these four actors slash musicians, which was

540
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: what made the show initially as successful as it.

541
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: Was for sure. And yeah, I mean, if you ever

542
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 3: get a chance, I'm sure you could find them on

543
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: YouTube or just watch the TV show The Monkeys. I

544
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: think it's quite good. But yeah, like very funny Beatles

545
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 3: esque quips, like I remember in a Davy Jones's audition,

546
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: He's in there and the interviewer is just like, oh, so, like, well,

547
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: what kind of a sound do you make? And he's like,

548
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: what do you mean? I don't get that. He's like, no,

549
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: what kind of sound? Like a like a rock sound

550
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 3: or a folk sound. It's like, I make a terrible sound.

551
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: It's funny, very nice.

552
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: Okay. So another thing that will be important going into

553
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: talking about the movie is that I think I think

554
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: you could say that each monkey in the band has

555
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: a has a bit. They've each got sort of an

556
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: archetype they fit and seth. You can tell me if

557
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 2: I'm wrong about these, but this is the way I

558
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: understood it. I don't know the Monkeys as well as you,

559
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: but the way I read it is that Davy Jones

560
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: is the singer and he's the cute one. Mike Nesmith

561
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: is on guitar and he's like the serious one or

562
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: the brooding artist. Peter Tork is on bass and he

563
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: is the simple one, sort of the California stoner, the

564
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: surfer type. And then Mickey Dolan's is on drums and he's.

565
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: The cut up, the goofball. I think that's pretty accurate

566
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: for sure. I would quibble on very small things, like

567
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: I would say Peter Tork instead of being simple, he

568
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: was more naive, like he was the one that was

569
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: gonna believe you. He was the hippie. But I think

570
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: what you said was close enough. And then I would

571
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: like I mentioned before too, Mickey Dolan's, by the numbers,

572
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 3: is perhaps the actual lead singer of the Monkeys, just

573
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: because he sang on the most tracks. Many people consider

574
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: Mickey's voice to be the actual voice of the Monkeys,

575
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: but part of that might be just too that he

576
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: stuck with at the longest. He is the last surviving monkey,

577
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 3: so his voice is the voice of the Monkeys.

578
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: Now, I guess I'm thinking more about the way I've

579
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: seen them arranged on stage when forming that they have

580
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: they would have Davy Jones out front, and.

581
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: I've seen that talked about before too, where like I said,

582
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 3: none of them were drummers. One of them just had

583
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: to become the drummer. And they at first were thinking

584
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 3: about Davy and they're like, he's too short, we won't

585
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: see him. We need a bigger monkey back there. And

586
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: that's why Mickey became the drummer. And here's the interesting

587
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: thing too. Here's an interesting thing too, is that, like

588
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: I said, obviously they were trying to duplicate the Beatles

589
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: and the Beatles' success. So if you look at it,

590
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: the manufactured personality types are actually kind of one to

591
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: one to the Beatles. Davy Jones, the cute one was

592
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 3: Paul McCartney, The cute one Mike Nesmith. The serious artist

593
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 3: was John Lennon. The serious artist Peter Torque, the quiet

594
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: one was George Harrison, the quiet one. And then Mickey

595
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: Dolan's kind of the goof was Ringo Star kind of

596
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 3: the goof. I don't think it quite matches up because

597
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: they're real personalities of the monkeys actually kind of like

598
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: further develop, but it is interesting how close they are

599
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: one to one.

600
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mickey Dolans's goofiness is different than Ringo's goofy noess,

601
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: Like Mickey is not an octopus's garden kind of goof

602
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: He's a he's he's a different He's got a sharper

603
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: kind of goofiness.

604
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: He's a ham for sure. He definitely like he's putting

605
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 3: on a he's putting on a show. He he he

606
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 3: mugs to the camera. He's he's he's a he's a

607
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 3: Hollywood actor, That's what he is.

608
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 2: But actually the like it, I mean, he's good in there.

609
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: In some of his comedic scenes in Head, he's legitimately hilarious,

610
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: like the scene where he's fighting the coke machine is

611
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 2: I was laughing out loud, definitely. But briefly, to come

612
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: back to dray Felson for just a moment, I wanted

613
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: to mention a quote of his I found where he

614
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: said he said, quote, of course, Head is an utterly

615
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 2: and totally fragmented film. Among other reasons for making it

616
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: was that I thought I would never get to make

617
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: an other movie, so I might as well make fifty

618
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: to start out with and put them all in the

619
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 2: same feature. And when I read that, I was like,

620
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: that's exactly that's what this movie feels like. So he

621
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 2: did go on to become a big deal in Hollywood

622
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: in the seventies. He made a lot of other successful films,

623
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: but at this point that hadn't happened yet. He didn't

624
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: know that was going to happen. So it's like he

625
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: just tried to put everything he had on screen in

626
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: one go, and it's surprising how well it works.

627
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: It's almost like he was constructing his own like directors

628
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 3: reel that he could show off later.

629
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: Look, I did a more film, Look at my range.

630
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 3: I did a deserts I did a party, I did

631
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: a concert, I did all these things. I've actually heard

632
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 3: something similar from Jordan Peel, where when he started directing

633
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 3: stuff for Key and Peel, he went all out and

634
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: really dedicated himself to these big set pieces with lots

635
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 3: of production value, because in the future he knew that

636
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: if you wanted to say I'm a film director now,

637
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: he would be able to go back and show them

638
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 3: these examples of Oh, look at these zombies. I did zombies. Hey,

639
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 3: look at this. You know I did sports.

640
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: That would why the makeup effects on Key and Peel

641
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: were so good. Yeah, exactly, he was.

642
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 3: He was constructing a future directors reel much like Rafelson.

643
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: Okay, next person I want to talk about here with

644
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: head is the other writer of the film, Jack Nicholson

645
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: born nineteen thirty seven. Have we talked about Jack Nicholson

646
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: on the show before? A little known actor mostly famous

647
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 2: for playing the possibly playing the giant crab in Roger

648
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: Corman's Attack of the Crab Monsters. Speaking of this movie

649
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: in an interview many years later, Nicholson said, at this

650
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: point in his career he was actually thinking that he

651
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: probably wanted to be a writer director instead of an actor.

652
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: And at this point his acting career was mostly like

653
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: B movies. I mean, he'd actually done stuff with the

654
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 2: Roger Corman crew. You know, he'd been in Little Chop

655
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 2: of Horrors, I guess, and you know Corman type stuff.

656
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: He was in what was it called The Terror? Have

657
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: you ever seen that? It's a Corman movie from sixty three,

658
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 2: starring Boris Karloff and Jack Nicholson. So like actors I love,

659
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: you'd think it'd be riveting, But I think I've tried

660
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: to watch it and like literally never made it more

661
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: than ten minutes. I think it's a snooze fest from

662
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: what I can recall, but I don't know. Maybe if

663
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 2: I went back and revisited, I would think differently. It's

664
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: been a long time, but yeah, so he mostly had

665
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: like B movies under his belt at this point.

666
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 3: That's amazing. Can I tell you a couple of fun

667
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: things about Jack Nicholson directly tied into this movie?

668
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?

669
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: Here are a couple of fun facts about Jack Nicholson,

670
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: specifically when he was working on this film. One is

671
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 3: that if you listen to the soundtrack album of this movie,

672
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 3: it's actually highly respected. It's one of the Monkeys' most

673
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: beloved albums only from the fans, but also from the

674
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 3: Monkeys themselves. They think it's one of the best. Jack

675
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: Nicholson completely compiled and arranged that soundtrack because it's got

676
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 3: all kinds of little like clips and soundbits from the

677
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 3: movie itself and blah blah blah. It's really a beautiful

678
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 3: noise collage of an album. It's fantastic. And the reason

679
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: that happened was that one day Jack Nicholson saw Mike

680
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: Nesmuth working on It's like in the studio and he

681
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I'd love to help out with that

682
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 3: if he need If he needs some you know, need

683
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: to need an extra hand, and Nesmuth was like, I

684
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: just want to go home. You do it. So Jack

685
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: stepped in and just did it himself. And then because

686
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: this was, you know, at the time just probably the

687
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 3: biggest thing that Jack Nicholson ever had ever been associated with.

688
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: The Monkeys were all stars. This is amazing. He got

689
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: to write a monkey's movie. This is his big break.

690
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: You know. He took a very active hand in the

691
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 3: promotion of this film, doing all kinds of like you know,

692
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: like street team like stickering campaigns and stuff like that,

693
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: going to like all the different premieres, and he eventually said, quote,

694
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: I saw it like one hundred and fifty eight million times. Man,

695
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: I loved it.

696
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true, but I read

697
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: a supposed fact that Jack Nicholson was at one point

698
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: arrested for putting a sticker to promote the film on

699
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: a cops helmet in New York.

700
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: That matches with everything I've heard, so I think we

701
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 3: can call that in fact.

702
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, so he was. So this is interesting that

703
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 2: he eventually got so deep into this movie and was

704
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: so dedicated to promoting it, because that sort of clashes

705
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: with his initial reaction to the pitch. So this was

706
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: when he wanted to be a writer director instead of

707
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: an actor. This would be you know, the mid late sixties.

708
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: And the way he was explaining it in this interview

709
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: is he went to pitch himself as a writer to

710
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: Bob Rafelson, who he knew, and he was, you know,

711
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: trying to sell himself on that. He's like, yeah, put

712
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: me to work. Bobby said, Bob, I can write a

713
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: movie about anything, anything, And Rafelson said, okay, can you

714
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 2: write me a movie for the monkeys? And Nicholson replied

715
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: with evident disgust the monkeys. You gotta be kidding me.

716
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 3: Uh.

717
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: And I think this this indicates the interesting place this

718
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: movie came from. You were talking about this this earlier

719
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: assessed with the Monkey's backlash after the first couple of

720
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: seasons of the show, where they came to be perceived

721
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: as like brutally uncool by the by the the hip

722
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 2: out there taste makers, you know, sort of the acid

723
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: ronan like like Jack Nicholson and probably even Rafelson himself

724
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 2: like that. They were looking on this as oh, this

725
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 2: is very uncool now. And I think you could say

726
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: this is also indicative of a kind of there's a

727
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: thing like this that pops up, not just with respect

728
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: to the artists themselves, but I've often noticed like there's

729
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: like there's like a revulsion a lot of like dudes

730
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: have to to acts that are very popular vicially with

731
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: teenage girls. You know that there's like a kind of

732
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: sexist backlash to that too, And I bet that was

733
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: part of it as well.

734
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 3: What makes comparison to like the late nineties early two

735
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: thousands of boy bands assembled in the same way, there's

736
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: some you know, corporate overlord behind the scenes who puts

737
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: a cast and call out and just assembles the cute

738
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 3: ones and gives them each like a personality type, and

739
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: then they're presented to the public with music that they

740
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 3: didn't write and didn't perform. It was one hundred percent

741
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: like the original templates that became the boy band template

742
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: in the future, and that wasn't well respected when it

743
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: first happened. I think over time, you know, very similarly.

744
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 3: I'm sure boy bands, you know, take more control over

745
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: their creative output and et cetera, et cetera, and all

746
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: that stuff. But I can see why someone like Jack

747
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 3: Nicholson would be like you want me to make an

748
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 3: in Sync movie. No, I'm not interested.

749
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what the equivalent in the nineties

750
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: would be, like, who is the Jack Nicholson of the

751
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: time being asked to make an n Sync movie?

752
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 3: Well, you know what, here's here's an example. This would

753
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 3: have been much later, though, But do you remember when

754
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 3: it was first announced that the next David Fincher movie

755
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 3: was going to be the Facebook movie? And everyone thought, what, what? Why? Why? Why?

756
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 3: Of all the things David Fincher can do. He's the

757
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 3: seven guy, He's the game, you know, he's a What's

758
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: what's a great one? The fight Club? He's the fight

759
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 3: club guy? Why is he making a movie about Facebook?

760
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 3: And then the social network came out? And it's a

761
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: great movie because great, great artists can make great art

762
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: out of anything.

763
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and people didn't realize how dark the take would

764
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: be in the mid right, yes, but oh yeah. Anyway,

765
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: So coming back to like, so Nicholson's initial reaction is like,

766
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: you want me to make a movie for the monkeys?

767
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: I can't, You can't be serious. But then Rayfelson replies, like,

768
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: wait a minute, you just said you could write about

769
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: anything where you know, were you lying to me. So

770
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: Nicholson says, okay, I'll do it. And so the next

771
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: day Nicholson has to go in and pitch his Monkey

772
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 2: script to Rafaelson's partner, Bert Schneider, and Nicholson goes in

773
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: meets him. He tells him, Okay, I've got two movie

774
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: ideas for you, Bert. One of them I can guarantee

775
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: with one hundred percent certainty will be as big a

776
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 2: hit as A hard Day's Night, and the other one

777
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: I can guarantee you with equal certainty won't make a dime.

778
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: And then, without hearing another word, Schneider says, I want

779
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: the second one. Well, and you know, well, here we

780
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: are with.

781
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 3: This is actually gonna be something that is full blown

782
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 3: rumor mill. But some people believe this, including some of

783
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 3: the monkeys. There's a rumor that Jack Nicholson and then

784
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 3: Bert and Jack wait, wait, hold on, there's too many Jacks, right,

785
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 3: What's what's raf Bob Bob Bob Rafelson, Jack Nicholson and

786
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: Bert Schneider that the three of them intentionally tanked this

787
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: movie because they wanted to be done with the Monkeys,

788
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: in particular, that Bob Rafelson wanted to move on from

789
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 3: this into bigger and better things, and the only way

790
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: he was going to get that was if the monkeys

791
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: failed and went away. Now I think this is perhaps

792
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: complete fabrication, but many people believe it so much, to

793
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: the point that if you watch there's a biopic about

794
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 3: the monkeys. I believe it's called Daydream Believer, but it's

795
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 3: one of those made for TV, very low budget things.

796
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: There is a scene where they are filming the Dandriff scene,

797
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 3: which we will get to later of the film head

798
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: in the artificial made for TV biopic of the Monkeys.

799
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 3: I know this is getting like inception layers, but in

800
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: that scene, someone walks onto the set and it's like,

801
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 3: what are you doing? This is garbage. No one's gonna

802
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,959
Speaker 3: like this. And you see Jack Nicholson, the actor playing

803
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 3: Jack Nicholson, and the actor playing Bob Rafelson look at

804
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: each other and give each other a knowing look. Then

805
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: they continue filming. I don't think there's any confirmed truth

806
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 3: behind this, but that is something that many people believed,

807
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: including some of the monkeys.

808
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: I mean, that's interesting. I could see that being possible.

809
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 2: I will say that while I would regard that with skepticism,

810
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: I also regard with skepticism. A lot of the first

811
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 2: hand accounts of people like Rafaelson and Jack Nicholson about

812
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: their time working on these projects because like, I don't know,

813
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: some of them are kind of like contain self contradictory details,

814
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: like and also it's just like you know, it's Hollywood storytelling.

815
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: There's it's just notorious for people kind of like telling

816
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: tall tales about how projects came to be, maybe not

817
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 2: even remembering totally and just making it into a good story.

818
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: So who knows really, And as.

819
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 3: You mentioned, there were definitely drugs involved.

820
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: They were, Yeah, that's established. Rafelson said in an interview

821
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 2: that a lot of this movie was written under the

822
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 2: influence of psychedelics in Harry Dean Stanton's basement amazing, So

823
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 2: that's Harry Dean Stanton's basement is its own sort of

824
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: in theagen. I guess this was.

825
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 3: Also depicted in the biopic, and it's them sitting around

826
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 3: in a haze of pot smoke with a tape recorder

827
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: just saying all of the wildest ideas that can possibly think.

828
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 3: And it's a fascinating biopick if anyone wants to learn

829
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 3: more about the monkeys.

830
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 2: Now, when it comes to the cast of this movie.

831
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 2: Most of the cast, apart from the monkeys, I think

832
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,479
Speaker 2: could best be classified as cameos. They are not really

833
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 2: very substantial roles in the film, but more like people

834
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: who pop in and out for strange little scenes or

835
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: recurring gags.

836
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 3: Oh and audience, don't feel bad if you don't notice

837
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 3: these cameos when you watch this film, because I've seen

838
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 3: this movie many many times and I recognize like none

839
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: of them, even from actors and personalities I know, like

840
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: Terry Garr and a net Funicello. I cannot tell you

841
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: where Terry gar is in this movie, and I cannot

842
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 3: tell you where a net Foodedicello is in this movie.

843
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 3: I can blame part of that in my face blindness,

844
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: but I think the other part too, is that these

845
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: are just blips. These are just passing things in the nights.

846
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 3: Most of these cameos have very little substance to them.

847
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: And Rafelson has said in interviews that when finding when

848
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: finding people to do all of these cameos, he claims

849
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: he was specifically looking for people who were recognizable to

850
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: the public but who had in some way been like

851
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: used up, mistreated, rejected, or sort of grown passed so

852
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: he wanted this like large cameo chorus of has beens, weirdos,

853
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 2: outcasts and who's thats And I don't know if that's

854
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: exactly what he successfully summoned here, but if that's indeed

855
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: what he was going for, I can kind of see it.

856
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: The movie is frantic, and the lines that characters deliver

857
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: are not characteristic of the characters as they appear, if

858
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 2: that makes any sense. So it's almost like it's almost

859
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: like people like cameo people show up to do a cameo,

860
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: but the lines they say could have been randomly reassigned

861
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: to any of the other people, you know what I.

862
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 3: Mean, Yes, for sure. And the lines don't feel like

863
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 3: they're developing anything. Many of them are just non sequitur poetry.

864
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 3: In many ways, a lot of them don't actually mean

865
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 3: anything other than conveying a feeling or like maybe perhaps

866
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: just kind of setting the mood for the scene that

867
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 3: is to follow.

868
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: So there is no way I can mention all the

869
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: cameos in this movie, but I'm gonna just mention some

870
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: of the top ones who get some of the some

871
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 2: of the most screen time. So you already mentioned Seth

872
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 2: that there is Annette Funicello who live nineteen forty two

873
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: to twenty thirteen. She was an American actress who started

874
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 2: out as a child performer on The Mickey Mouse Club.

875
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 2: She was a mousekutier, and she would later become a

876
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: pop singer. In the sixties, she had success with movies

877
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: in the beach party subgenre. And I just love how

878
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 2: a popular genre of movies.

879
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 3: Used to be the beach Yes.

880
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: Sort of a Ken genre, you know, and it makes

881
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 2: me think, like, so the other you know her? Her

882
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: partner in these movies was often Frankie Avalon. So was

883
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 2: he sort of the original Ken?

884
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely? One hundred percent. Absolutely.

885
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: We also get Terry Garr who you mentioned born nineteen

886
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: forty four, American actress and comedian. Acted in lots of

887
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: TV and movies. She's famously very funny. She was a

888
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: dancer too. I think before she was an actress and comedian,

889
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 2: she was in movies as different as Francis Ford Coppola

890
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 2: as The Conversation and Young Frankenstein the Milbrooks movie.

891
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 3: Two questions for you, just real quick, I started to interrupt. One.

892
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 3: So was Terry Garr a known entity when she filmed this?

893
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: I guess we can't answer it. To me, I don't

894
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 3: you know we weren't alive at the time, because like

895
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 3: to me and I only have you know, hindsight to

896
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: look at this. To me, I picture like the birth

897
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 3: of Terry garr As being young Frankenstein. But that's just

898
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 3: because that's what I know her best from. So my

899
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 3: perception is definitely skewed. I wonder if someone in nineteen

900
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 3: sixty eight knew who she was and actually real quick

901
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 3: a net Funacello, where is she in this movie? I've

902
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 3: never once been able to, like pinpoint review in.

903
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: The I think she's in the scene where Davy Jones

904
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: wants to be a boxer, like he could have been

905
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 2: a contender. He's boxing with Actually, so he's boxing with

906
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 2: Sonny Liston. Okay, another cameo in the movie. So Sonny Liston,

907
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen thirty to nineteen seventy American pro boxer.

908
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: He became a world heavyweight champion in nineteen sixty two

909
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 2: after knocking out Floyd Patterson, and then in nineteen sixty four,

910
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: Sunny Liston was feeded by Muhammad Ali, who is then

911
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: known as Cassius Clay. So by the time this movie

912
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 2: was made, Liston had already lost his world heavyweight title,

913
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 2: and here he's in the scene where he's boxing Davy Jones,

914
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: and I think Annette Funicello is like Davy Jones' wife

915
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 2: who's sitting in the audience watching him. And then I

916
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 2: think he's supposed to take a dive. And then they

917
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 2: have this emotional scene where she's shown crying asking him.

918
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what she's asking him to do,

919
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 2: and you see like a hand reach in from from

920
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: off screen to like wipe her tears away. It's not

921
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: her hand.

922
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm learning. This is great.

923
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that's her. But so yeah, that's Sunny Liston.

924
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: That's another one of them. Timothy Carey is in this.

925
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: He's sort of he's recognizable. He lived twenty nine through

926
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: ninety four. He was an American actor known for playing

927
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: like weird, crazy characters. He was in several Stanley Kubrick movies.

928
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: He was in The Killing Who's in Paths of Glory,

929
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: and he was also in films as varied as the

930
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 2: Marlon Brando western One Eyed Jackson nineteen sixty one and

931
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: the nineteen sixty five beach party movie Beach Blanket Bingo

932
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: starring guess who, Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello. And then finally,

933
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: sort of, if this film has a villain, the villain

934
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: might be us the audience, but also the film's villain

935
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 2: might be Victor Mature who lived nineteen thirteen to nineteen

936
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: ninety nine. He kind of plays Satan like this, Okay,

937
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: So Victor Mature, the actor was an American actor. He

938
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: was known as like a suave leading man in movies

939
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: in the forties and fifties. He was like in the

940
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 2: Cecil b de mil biblical epics Samson and Delilah. And

941
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: in this movie he plays a cosmic trickster who sometimes

942
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: appears out of the sky, and he seems to want

943
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: to entrap the monkeys in a world of illusions that

944
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: will cause them to forget their true nature. So he's

945
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: sort of like like an old Hollywood gnostic demi urge.

946
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 3: I saw this movie at a young age originally, so

947
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 3: I always considered him to be the jolly green giant

948
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 3: of this film. Doesn't quite make sense, but that's still

949
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 3: a part of his character in my head whenever I

950
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 3: see it.

951
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are tons of other cameos who I

952
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: guess we should go ahead and say Frank Zappa's in

953
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: this for like half a second. He pops in to

954
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: say a line and then a cow talks after him

955
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: and his I would say Frank Zappa's vibe in this

956
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: movie is halfway between Alan Watts and Bertram Gilfoyle.

957
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 3: And it's fun too because Frank Zappa was definitely a

958
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 3: friend of the monkeys, and he makes an appearance in

959
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 3: the TV show as well, and the scene that he

960
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 3: played in the TV show, Frank Zappa plays Mike Nesmith

961
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: and Mike Nesmith plays Frank Zappa, and I've seen their clip.

962
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: It's very entertaining.

963
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 2: I've seen this clip. I think they're like they they

964
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: interview each other as each other, and doesn't Mike Nesmith

965
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 2: like try to grill Frank and Zappa as Mike Nesmith

966
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 2: on like why their music is so hollow and commercial?

967
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's great, it's great, and yeah, yeah, I

968
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 3: believe Frank's main thing here. So uh, it's right after

969
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 3: Davey has just performed like a soft shoe song and dance,

970
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: he comes out and Frank Zappa goes, man, that's really white,

971
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 3: and then Davy Jones goes, yes, so am I very strange,

972
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 3: very strange.

973
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: And then a cow talks. What does the cow say.

974
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 3: Oh I cuckoo chew or something, you know, gabba gabba hay,

975
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 3: something nonsensical. A lot of my favorite quotes in this

976
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 3: movie are complete nonsense.

977
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's the part where we would normally do

978
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: a full plot breakdown. This movie doesn't really have a plot,

979
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: so we can't do that, but we will instead try

980
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 2: to describe some things that happen. And in the movie. Yeah,

981
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: it opens with a scene that's like a ribbon cutting

982
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 2: ceremony where there are all these police gathered around marines

983
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: and silver helmets, and then we see a politician get

984
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: out of a limo. This character is credited as mayor Feedback,

985
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: and he comes up to a ribbon. Somebody like hands

986
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 2: them a huge pair of scissors and he walks up

987
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: to a ribbon and this is for the opening of

988
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 2: a new arch bridge in the Los Angeles area. This

989
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 2: this is apparently, I guess, supposed to be a real location,

990
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: like a bridge in Long Beach, California. But the mayor

991
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 2: like can't speak into the microphone without creating an infinite

992
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: echo of feedback, and we just see this like loop

993
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 2: of the cop keeps hammering on the microphone and then

994
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 2: handing it back to the mayor like it's fine, but

995
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: it's still creating all this feedback. So it's like, even

996
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 2: this moment seemed kind of thematically significant to me, Like

997
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 2: the person who's supposed to speak here knows that it

998
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: is not going to sound right, but he just keeps

999
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 2: getting the mic handed back to him like, yeah, go ahead.

1000
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 3: It's an amazing bit of timing from I'm sure the

1001
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 3: director but as well as the editor to have the

1002
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 3: confidence to start this, you know what. I'm sure would

1003
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 3: have been viewed as a children's film in nineteen sixty

1004
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 3: eight before anyone saw it. I'm sure a lot of

1005
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 3: fans of the TV show showed up waiting for the

1006
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: TV show in feature length, and this is how they start.

1007
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 3: Because it's not even a quick moment. It's what probably

1008
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 3: like four minutes perhaps of yeah, of this slow pondering

1009
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 3: view of a mayor trying to talk into a microphone

1010
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 3: and getting in It's just it's not something that someone

1011
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 3: would do, by the book, it's a very deliberate decision.

1012
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then so before the mayor can cut the ribbon. Oh,

1013
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 2: here come the monkeys. So there's the introduction, except there

1014
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 2: is no introduction. They just run through the frame. They

1015
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: run through like tearing through the ribbon, like the finish

1016
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 2: line of a race, signifying a kind of finality here

1017
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 2: at the beginning. And then they keep running, with Mickey

1018
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: Dolan's running ahead of the other guys while these loud

1019
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: sirens wail all around them as if they are being pursued.

1020
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,479
Speaker 2: It suggests a feeling of persecution, but also like, ooh,

1021
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: these boys are bad, but we never see anybody in

1022
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 2: pursuit at this point at least. But then the monkeys

1023
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 2: come to the edge of the bridge, and then Mickey

1024
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 2: Dolan's jumps off the side of the bridge, and this

1025
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: is like not a low bridge, it's like really high up.

1026
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: He just jumps off. That's a way to start a movie.

1027
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 3: And audience remember this scene for later, because I definitely

1028
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 3: want to talk about it at the end again and

1029
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 3: where it will have a completely different context.

1030
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this does come back. So we see Mickey's

1031
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: body tumble through the air in slow motion, occasionally cutting

1032
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: to long shots of an obvious dummy, but when it's

1033
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: close up, I think it looks like it actually is

1034
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 2: Mickey and he's jumping on a trampoline, but he plunges

1035
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: into the water below. And then we get our first

1036
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: musical number. And this is a strange choice for an

1037
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: opening musical number because it number one. I think this

1038
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: song is great. It's one of the best songs in

1039
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: the movie, and I love it, but it's not really

1040
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: the vibe you would expect for the first song in

1041
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: A Monkey's Movie, which you'd think would be a more,

1042
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, upbeat, tuneful pop number. Instead, this is

1043
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 2: kind of a slower tempo psychedelic sound with a big

1044
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: instrumental section with like guitars, cello and other strings, woodwinds, organ,

1045
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: ringing bells. So it's almost like a day in the

1046
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: life that has all this crazy orchestra in it, just

1047
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 2: like pounding on the beat while this languid melody plays.

1048
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: And the song is called the Porpoise Song. And seth,

1049
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to talk about your

1050
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: thoughts about the song before we discuss the lyrics.

1051
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: Oh, sure, sure, I love this song. I think it

1052
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: is amongst the Monkey's best tracks. And I grew everything

1053
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 3: you just said. I love the deliberate choice that the

1054
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 3: director and the writer and everyone honestly is making at

1055
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 3: this point to tell the audience get out of here.

1056
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 3: You know this movie you came to see, We're not

1057
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: going to give it to you. We're going to give

1058
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 3: you something very strange. Get out of this theater. And

1059
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 3: I think that's great, And there's actually a really great

1060
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 3: future use of this song. If anyone's ever seen the

1061
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 3: Cameron Crow film Vanilla Sky, this song is very intentionally,

1062
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 3: very prominently and in multiple locations used in Vanilla Sky.

1063
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 3: So if you've seen that film, you've heard this song.

1064
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: I have seen that movie, but it was long ago,

1065
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: and I don't remember the use of this. Do you

1066
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: what part of the movie is it?

1067
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 3: I guess I don't want to give anything away, but

1068
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 3: I will say never mind, but I'll give a very

1069
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 3: vague illusion. It matches in many ways Mickey's Leap from

1070
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 3: the Bridge.

1071
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: Okay, So this song was written by Jerry Goffin and

1072
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 2: car Old King. Carol King co wrote a couple of

1073
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: the best songs in the soundtrack, and the lyrics seem

1074
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 2: very much to be a commentary on the creative frustrations

1075
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: of the monkeys who wanted to be musicians on their

1076
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,439
Speaker 2: own terms, but were controlled by a corporate marketing apparatus.

1077
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,479
Speaker 2: So like there's a verse that so the first verse

1078
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 2: is my mi. The clock in the sky is pounding away.

1079
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 2: There's so much to say. A face, a voice, an

1080
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: overdub has no choice, an image cannot rejoice, And so

1081
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 2: the lyrics end up sort of holding up this idea

1082
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 2: of like whatever the singer's position is as kind of

1083
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 2: like an image or an insubstantial reflection opposite the idea

1084
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: of the porpoise. The porpoise, it says, is laughing goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

1085
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 2: The porpoise is kind of the image of freedom in

1086
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: the song. It's like a wild animal that can swim

1087
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: away in the ocean. And we hear the sounds of

1088
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 2: the porpoise literally like sampled at the end of the song. Uh,

1089
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: and it's just repeatedly. It's like the sounds become mocking

1090
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,439
Speaker 2: because it is clear that the singer will never have

1091
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 2: freedom like the porpoise does. The singer instead summarizes their

1092
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 2: situation in the verse that says, clicks clacks, writing on

1093
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 2: the backs of giraffes for laughs is all right for

1094
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 2: a while the ego sings of castles and kings and

1095
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 2: things that go with a life of style, wanting to feel,

1096
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: to know what is real. Living is a lie. The

1097
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: porpoise is waiting goodbye, goodbye.

1098
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 3: See and Sink would never do that. These boys far

1099
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 3: beyond it and sync.

1100
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 2: I think, you know, a lot of psychedelic songs have

1101
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 2: lyrics that, like, they kind of sound cool. They're more

1102
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: for sonic effect than they are for meaning. But I

1103
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: don't know, I think these are good, meaningful lyrics. It's

1104
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 2: really clever. The line about clicks and clacks, you know,

1105
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 2: clicks being the idea of like the clicks that control

1106
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 2: the band, the clicks of producers and so forth. The

1107
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: claques being clacked meaning like a paid audience members.

1108
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 3: And phonetically too, like just just just the automnopic sound

1109
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 3: of both those things works on that level as well.

1110
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 3: It's it's deep, it's meaningful, and it sounds good. It's

1111
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 3: it's excellent songwriting.

1112
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 2: But also it's an incredible downer of an opener, good Bye, Goodbye, Goodbye.

1113
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 2: The point of this song is that we will never

1114
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 2: have creative freedom, and we are living a life of

1115
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: falsity and illusion.

1116
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 3: Get out of the theater, kids, this isn't for you.

1117
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 2: So in the water here Dolan's like synks to the

1118
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 2: bottom and he's like surrounded by coral and here we

1119
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: get extensive use of that. I apologize if this is

1120
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 2: not exactly the correct way to describe this, but it's

1121
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 2: I think what would be called a solarization effect. It's

1122
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: where like the colors are all weirdly inverted. It's like

1123
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 2: sort of saturated and has opposite kinds of contrast intensities

1124
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 2: of what the original image would be. I think I

1125
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 2: read that the part of this was done because like

1126
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 2: they shot some underwater scenes somewhere out actually in the ocean,

1127
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 2: but there had just been a hurricane and so the

1128
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 2: water was really cloudy and so it didn't look right,

1129
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 2: and so then they ended up having to reshoot things

1130
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: in a swimming pool, and then they used this solarization

1131
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: technique to kind of cover that up. And it clearly

1132
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 2: at the time they must have thought, yeah, this looks

1133
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 2: so psychedelicly cool, but it kind of it wears at

1134
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: it's welcome pretty quick. But anyway down there in the water,

1135
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 2: like Mickey, he sinks down and then mermaids come to

1136
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 2: his rescue apparently.

1137
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 3: Well, rescue or doom, because you know, depending upon the

1138
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 3: mythology that we're talking about here. Okay, think about the

1139
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 3: movie Hook. You know those mermaids they rescued Peter Pan. However,

1140
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 3: you think about the other kinds of mermaids where they're

1141
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 3: luring you deeper and deeper into the water so ultimately,

1142
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 3: you know, make you drown and then consume your flesh.

1143
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 3: So it could be either it could be either one.

1144
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we see one of the mermaids. It appears

1145
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 2: to be resuscitating Mickey with mouth to mouth.

1146
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 3: Hook style, Peter Pan.

1147
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then the solarization departs and we can see

1148
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: them clearly again, and the water in the foreground is

1149
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: revealed to be not real water or not water that

1150
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 2: they're in, but only a fish tank in front of

1151
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 2: the camera with the mermaid and Mickey behind. And in fact,

1152
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 2: the mermaid is no longer a mermaid. It's just a

1153
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 2: regular woman with legs and everything. And she's kissing Mickey

1154
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 2: on the mouth. Then she walks away from him, revealing

1155
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 2: they're in some kind of weird apartment. This might have

1156
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 2: been correct me if I'm wrong here, Seth, this apartment

1157
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 2: might have been like a standard part of the Monkey's

1158
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 2: TV set.

1159
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 3: That's what it looks like. It's clearly not the exact

1160
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 3: same setup, but I think they're at least trying to

1161
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 3: either reuse the sets or make us feel, hey, we're

1162
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 3: back at the TV show for a moment. But yeah, yeah,

1163
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 3: I think that was intentional.

1164
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's kind of like that. It's like an

1165
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 2: apartment that's like the Monkey set, except it has like

1166
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 2: barbering equipment. There are people in these swiveling barber chairs

1167
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, and the rest of the monkeys are

1168
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 2: there too, And then the lady she kisses all of

1169
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 2: them in sequence. She kisses Mickey, then Michael Nesmith, then

1170
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: Peter tork Uh, then Davy Jones, and Davy Jones is last.

1171
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: He's in front of this big orange stained glass window

1172
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 2: with seagulls screaming outside. And after this, she goes to

1173
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 2: the door, looking kind of bored and unimpressed, and she's

1174
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 2: gonna leave the leave the apartment, but they ask her

1175
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 2: for a verdict. First. I guess this was like a

1176
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 2: kissing competition, and she's like, eh, even none of you

1177
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 2: is better than the other yep.

1178
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 3: Uh.

1179
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 2: And then things start getting really wild.

1180
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 5: Uh.

1181
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: There's another musical number that is credited as Diddy Diego

1182
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 2: or the War Chance, and this is sung by the

1183
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 2: Monkeys to the rhythm of the I don't know what

1184
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 2: this is originally called, but the Hello Operator song. The

1185
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 2: like the children's children's you know school yard rhyme dah

1186
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 2: da da da di duh, and so I'm not going

1187
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 2: to read all the lyrics, but some of the salient ones.

1188
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 2: It starts with, Hey, hey, we are the monkeys. You know,

1189
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 2: we love to please, a manufactured image with no philosophies,

1190
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 2: and then later in the song it says, you say

1191
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 2: we're manufactured to that we all agree, so make your

1192
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 2: choice and will rejoice in never being free. Hey hey,

1193
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 2: we are the monkeys. We've said it all before. The

1194
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: money's in. We're made of tin, We're here to give

1195
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 2: you more. And as they're singing this, the screen you're

1196
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 2: watching is filling up with miniature TV screens that I

1197
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 2: think are showing you different scenes of the movie you're

1198
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 2: about to watch. So they're all cutting in TV screens,

1199
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 2: showing you stuff that hasn't happened in the movie yet

1200
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: but will. Most of this stuff is silly in nature

1201
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 2: until the last screen pops up, which happens to show

1202
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: the execution of Nuin Van Limb, which was this important

1203
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 2: event in the history of the Vietnam War. It was

1204
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 2: like the summary execution of a Vietcong officer in Saigon

1205
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 2: in February nineteen sixty eight in a photo that was

1206
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,959
Speaker 2: captured by the Associated Press photographer Eddie Adams, but also

1207
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 2: was captured by a film TV camera and became like

1208
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 2: this really important image in the American anti war movement. Obviously,

1209
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 2: this is unbelievably tonally jarring on purpose, and then the

1210
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 2: film gives way to this overwhelming montage of war and

1211
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 2: violence imagery, just like bombs exploding and weaponry and war photography,

1212
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 2: and the monkeys do like a cheerleading chant of give

1213
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 2: me a W, give me an A, give me an

1214
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 2: R to spell war. So it's like, clearly, this incredibly

1215
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 2: sharp critique of the Vietnam War, making it look clearly

1216
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 2: intended to make it look barbarous and immoral, and then

1217
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 2: it cuts straight from that to a goofy trench warfare skit.

1218
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 2: I don't know how to explain, like I can't think

1219
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 2: of anything else like this it's so.

1220
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 3: Strange, incredibly strange, and I mean there is humor to it,

1221
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 3: but almost the humor is the existence of humor in

1222
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 3: such a dire situation like that, like like they are

1223
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 3: making genuine jokes, but I think the joke ultimately is

1224
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 3: that they are joking in this war scene when it

1225
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 3: is not something that should be joked about, which is

1226
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 3: kind of double layer fascinating.

1227
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the trench warfare scene is like a parody

1228
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 2: of a World War two movie, and this will come

1229
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 2: up again and again. Like I said, there's like there

1230
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: are all these scenes in the movie that are parodies

1231
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 2: of sort of square movie and TV genres. They're parodies

1232
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 2: of westerns, parodies of war movies, parodies of sports movies.

1233
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: And so the World War two movie scene has like

1234
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 2: these gags about helmets, like Mickey doesn't want to wear

1235
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 2: his helmet, which actually seems kind of thematically significant given

1236
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 2: the opening. And then Peter, I think, or at least

1237
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 2: there may be multiple of the other monkeys like run

1238
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 2: out across the disputed zone between the trenches to retrieve

1239
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 2: a different helmet for Mickey to wear, and eventually that

1240
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 2: ends with them like fighting a football player who keeps

1241
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 2: tackling them, but they steal his football helmet and come

1242
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 2: back and give it to Mickey.

1243
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 3: It's beautiful in many ways. In many ways, it's making

1244
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 3: these connections between warfare and sports and the violence and

1245
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 3: the one upsmanship and this like push and pull and

1246
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 3: conflict between us and them, and it's it's fascinating and

1247
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 3: beautiful and also very nonsensical and silly. It's it's odd.

1248
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 2: And then it transitions straight from that to a concert

1249
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: scene where this is just like a It starts off

1250
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 2: just kind of like a straight concert scene with the

1251
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,719
Speaker 2: band playing on stage. They're playing their instruments and singing

1252
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 2: in front of a crowd, and the song in this

1253
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 2: scene is the Mike Nesmith song Circle Sky, written and

1254
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 2: sung by Mike Nesmith. The whole band is playing on

1255
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 2: stage in front of an audience of screaming young fans.

1256
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 2: Fans shown shrieking and applauding with such intensity it looks

1257
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 2: almost more like pain and fear than happiness.

1258
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 3: Well, let's throw in one bit of context here, which

1259
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:48,839
Speaker 3: I'm please correct me if I'm not getting this completely correct,

1260
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 3: But this is kind of like the the series of

1261
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 3: images that I remember. So the four monkeys. They are

1262
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 3: trying to like breach this like cave or whatever, you know,

1263
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 3: in the war scene. Still, so we're still we're still

1264
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 3: picturing war. And when they get up there, you know,

1265
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 3: they're doing things. They throw a grenade in, they charge

1266
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 3: in as if they're about to attack, and that's the

1267
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 3: direct transition into the scene you just mentioned of them

1268
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 3: at their concert, right, So do they have this antagonistic

1269
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 3: feeling towards their live shows? Do they see their concerts

1270
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,799
Speaker 3: as a battle and their audience as like an enemy

1271
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 3: that must be bested that that this is this is

1272
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 3: this is conflict, This is war between them and this

1273
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 3: screaming horde that is their fan base.

1274
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 2: It's odd that would make sense given what happens at

1275
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 2: the end of this thing, because well, first of all,

1276
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 2: let's talk about Circle Skide the song, and then when

1277
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 2: we talk about how the scene finishes. This is a

1278
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 2: very weird and interesting song. I'd say it's another one

1279
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 2: of my favorites in the soundtrack. Rhythmically, it's built around

1280
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 2: a Bo Diddley beat, you know, bump a dump a dump,

1281
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,440
Speaker 2: a dump bump, but it also has this strange descending

1282
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 2: chromatic scale part after the verses that kind of reminds

1283
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 2: me of the riff in Pink Floyd's Interstellar Overdrive. And

1284
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: it's a weird sounding song. It's a lot more rock

1285
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 2: than most of the other Monkey songs I can think of,

1286
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 2: if that makes sense.

1287
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 3: Definitely, I mean, this is a this is a Nesmuth

1288
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 3: and one thing that Nesmuth is credited as inventing. And

1289
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 3: once again, no one invented anything. We're all building off

1290
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 3: each other's influences, et cetera, et cetera. But one things

1291
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 3: people give Nesmuth credit for is inventing the rock country genre,

1292
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 3: that melding, you know, something that we would see later

1293
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 3: with like the Birds and Wilco exactly exactly. He's given

1294
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 3: credit for that, which these early Monkeys songs definitely kind

1295
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 3: of hint towards, and then he gets really into it later.

1296
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,879
Speaker 3: This is just a quick bonus recommendation. There's a series

1297
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 3: of three solo albums from Mike Nesmyth that I think

1298
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,720
Speaker 3: you would love, Joe, but I think everyone would love

1299
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy Magnetic southeteen seventy Loose Salute, nineteen seventy one

1300
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 3: Nevada Fighter. All three are this Vibe and so if

1301
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 3: anyone likes this song and the way this is going

1302
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 3: that this is like a little hint at where Nesmuth

1303
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 3: is headed next. And he put out three albums in

1304
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 3: a row that are all this vibe and are all incredible.

1305
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, and even this may be a

1306
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 2: very strange comparison, but I would say, if you loosen

1307
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,640
Speaker 2: all of the bolts on this type of music significantly,

1308
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 2: you end up with the meat puppets.

1309
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely no, it's it's it's

1310
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 3: incredible song making. It's Mike Nesmith. I'm a huge fan

1311
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:40,640
Speaker 3: of his. I really really love what he does, and

1312
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 3: this is a great example of it. And this whole

1313
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 3: scene is just filmed beautifully as well. This whole like

1314
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 3: war into concert and then are you ready to go

1315
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 3: into what it goes into next?

1316
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, So they sing this song and it's a

1317
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 2: great musical number. But at the end of the song,

1318
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 2: the audience, which again is mostly teenage girls, they assault

1319
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 2: the stage, attack the band, and apparently kill them, except

1320
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 2: it reveals that the band are not flesh and blood like.

1321
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: They are ripped to pieces by the audience, revealing that

1322
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,440
Speaker 2: they are actually just puppets. And mannequins.

1323
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 3: They were phony the whole time.

1324
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 2: But I do want to dwell for a second on

1325
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 2: how like it's interesting the way the movie really focuses

1326
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 2: on the intensity of the feeling and the audience for

1327
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 2: the band. And I don't know how exactly this was filmed,

1328
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 2: like if they filmed a real a real audience for

1329
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 2: a Monkey's concert, or if these were just actors, you know,

1330
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: asked to portray screaming. I really don't know what they

1331
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 2: did here, but you can compare it certainly to live

1332
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: footage of real audiences reacting to the Beatles or any

1333
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 2: very popular band. And it just reminds me that I

1334
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 2: love music. But however much I love music now, there

1335
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 2: really is no way for me to access the kind

1336
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,519
Speaker 2: of excruciating passion I had for my favorite bands when

1337
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 2: I was a teenager. There's like a teenage relationship with

1338
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 2: music that that doesn't come back no matter how hard

1339
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: you try, you know, like the way that you would

1340
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,600
Speaker 2: just scream for a band at that age.

1341
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:19,719
Speaker 3: And like the physical output, like especially if like again

1342
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 3: you're in your young teenage years, you're going to a

1343
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,600
Speaker 3: metal show, a punk show, hardcore show, and that physical

1344
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 3: feeling you get of being amongst your peers jostling and

1345
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 3: being in a pit and all that stuff. I can't

1346
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 3: imagine doing that anymore, Like, not for a second. You know,

1347
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 3: I'm middle aged. There's not a chance.

1348
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 2: But at least in my memory, I strongly identified with

1349
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 2: the audience in the scene. Is like, I remember that

1350
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 2: feeling of like caring about a band, even a band

1351
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 2: that maybe years later I would think was silly. Caring

1352
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 2: this much, that is just overwhelming passion.

1353
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 3: It's wonderful. I'm glad music has that ability. And yeah,

1354
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 3: you're right, though I think teenagers connect to it in

1355
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 3: a perfectly teenage way.

1356
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 2: Oh but from here it goes on to all kinds

1357
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,599
Speaker 2: of other weird stuff. We get like a channel surfing

1358
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 2: montage where we see like a disembodied hand clicking a

1359
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 2: remote control. I don't think I even realized there were

1360
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 2: remote controls at this point, but clicking a remote and

1361
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 2: we see on the TV screen like cuts between commercials

1362
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 2: that highlight American consumerism. We get bits of Bible movies

1363
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 2: and stuff. There's one moment where it's a Bela Lagosi movie.

1364
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 2: I don't know what movie this is from. I didn't

1365
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 2: look it up. But it's where Bella Lagosi is talking

1366
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 2: to some guy and the other guy says, sounds like

1367
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:47,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of supernatural boloney to me, and Bello replies, supernatural,

1368
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 2: perhaps bloney, perhaps not.

1369
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,480
Speaker 3: This moment has a very prominent place on the album soundtrack,

1370
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 3: this spell Lagosi quote, and I love it every time.

1371
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 2: But then we go to another very memorable scene. It's

1372
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 2: the Mickey in the Desert scene where we get Mickey

1373
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 2: Dollins lost in the desert, wandering around shirtless, thirsty. He

1374
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 2: comes across a coke machine in the middle of the desert,

1375
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 2: but it malfunctions and won't give him his coke. I

1376
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,799
Speaker 2: found this scene very funny. Yes, he's like fighting the machine.

1377
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 2: And then later in the scene it becomes a parody

1378
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 2: of Lawrence of Arabia with like an Arabian horseman riding

1379
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 2: over the sand dunes, and then seth, did you want

1380
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 2: to describe this part?

1381
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 3: Sure? This is a moment we referenced earlier that genuinely

1382
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 3: made me laugh out loud just yesterday watching this. When

1383
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 3: the horseman rides up over the dunes, comes all the

1384
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 3: way up to Mickey, Mickey is confused, perhaps a little apprehensious,

1385
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 3: a little little worried, and he goes and he's like

1386
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 3: what and then he gets real close, he goes past,

1387
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 3: and then there's a big caption on the screen that

1388
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 3: just saysst some title. Yes, and then he just rides

1389
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 3: off and that's it. That's the end. I believe.

1390
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 2: Mickey once again goes what Yeah. But then there so

1391
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 2: after that, there's a part where an Italian tank drives

1392
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 2: up right. The driver gets out of the tank, goes

1393
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 2: up to Mickey and confirms he is American. He only

1394
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:19,559
Speaker 2: speaks Italian, I think, but Americano, and Mickey confirms, and

1395
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 2: then the tank driver gleefully surrenders to Mickey, and then

1396
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 2: we basically get to watch this huge train of soldiers

1397
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,720
Speaker 2: that are like all of the axis powers lining up

1398
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 2: to surrender to the monkeys.

1399
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 3: It's so what.

1400
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 4: Uh?

1401
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 2: And then oh, then finally Mickey gets in the tank

1402
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 2: and uses it to shell the coke machine, which I

1403
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 2: laughed out loud at.

1404
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,679
Speaker 3: You know who wasn't laughing was Coca Cola. They got

1405
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 3: mad and actually requested that this be taken out of

1406
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:52,799
Speaker 3: the film. But not too long afterwards, Coca Cola actually

1407
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:56,680
Speaker 3: bought the production company in the studio that made this film,

1408
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 3: so then they didn't mind so much.

1409
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see after this, let's what happened. Oh, it

1410
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 2: segues into another musical number and not so great scene

1411
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 2: where the monkeys are like hanging out dressed in Arabic

1412
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 2: clothing and surrounded by belly dancers. And this is to

1413
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 2: a company the Peter Torque song can You Dig It,

1414
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 2: which is set to I don't know what you call

1415
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 2: this genre, but it was like American psychedelic rock music

1416
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 2: of the sixties that was supposed to be inflected with

1417
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 2: I think like an Eastern sound, I.

1418
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:32,599
Speaker 3: Believe, right right, Yeah, when all of the white rock

1419
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 3: and roll musicians bought a sitar and didn't know how

1420
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 3: to play it, it was that era. Yeah. No, no

1421
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,720
Speaker 3: offense to George Harrison. I'm sure he was doing it

1422
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:40,519
Speaker 3: better than most.

1423
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, But but this one feels I

1424
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 2: don't know, this is not I think one of the

1425
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 2: better musical numbers in the movie.

1426
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 3: It feels like a little music video interlude, but one

1427
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 3: without as much meaning as the previous two Circle Sky

1428
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 3: and Porpoise song.

1429
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. No offense to the belly dancers, though they do

1430
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 2: great and we get for sure, no belly cam and

1431
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 2: all that. But then we transition to another genre parody,

1432
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,639
Speaker 2: this time a Western featuring Terry Garr In this scene

1433
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 2: where in the middle of the scene here Mickey gets

1434
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 2: fed up and walks off set, literally tearing a hole

1435
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 2: in the painted backdrop. And this is the first of

1436
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 2: many scenes in the movie where the fourth wall not

1437
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,759
Speaker 2: only breaks, but the monkeys like argue with the director

1438
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 2: and with the script and express dissatisfaction with the creative

1439
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 2: direction of the movie. And I think this thing. I

1440
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 2: don't know if it's happened already in other movies before this,

1441
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 2: but I feel like this will be a sort of

1442
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 2: copied in comedy movies that follow, like movies where people

1443
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,799
Speaker 2: break the fourth wall and start arguing with the director.

1444
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 2: I wonder if it comes from this.

1445
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, great point. I mean this is pretty early on

1446
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight is pretty early in the history of

1447
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 3: cinema for things to still be established, like, for example,

1448
01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:00,479
Speaker 3: this is a complete tangent. But something I learned recently, Joe,

1449
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 3: do you know where the very first fart in American

1450
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 3: cinema was?

1451
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 2: I do not know.

1452
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 3: Blazing saddles. Ah, that's how long it took to get

1453
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:13,959
Speaker 3: a fart in American cinema.

1454
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 2: That's really funny. Well, so long, what year was Blazing Saddles,

1455
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 2: by the way, you know, let's.

1456
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 3: Look it up. These are just dumb facts in my head.

1457
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 3: Let's find out because I was thinking.

1458
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 2: Of Blazing Saddles. As doesn't Blazing Saddles have a scene

1459
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 2: where the actors start arguing with the director?

1460
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:32,759
Speaker 3: They do, and that was nineteen seventy four. So perhaps

1461
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 3: Blazing Saddles was at least in part influenced by, if

1462
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,799
Speaker 3: not this film, other things that were happening around this film.

1463
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Or maybe it's just something that's commonly in

1464
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 2: the air in the sixties and seventies, and it is changing, yeah,

1465
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:48,600
Speaker 2: changing views about the role of the artist and understanding

1466
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 2: film as a medium to be critiqued from a step back.

1467
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1468
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:55,679
Speaker 3: It must have been fun though, that at that time

1469
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 3: you still could do things that were first that things

1470
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 3: oh felt still unexplored, like it was the wild West.

1471
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,680
Speaker 3: No pun intended that you could just kind of do

1472
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 3: something and have it be the first time it ever

1473
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:07,599
Speaker 3: happened on screen.

1474
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And I wanted to mention so there are

1475
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 2: these scenes where they argue with the director, and in

1476
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 2: one of these scenes later you see Bob Raefelson and

1477
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 2: Jack Nicholson as themselves like walk on screen and start

1478
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 2: arguing with Peter Torrik and stuff.

1479
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,760
Speaker 3: It's amazing because you immediately recognize Jack Nicholson like it's

1480
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 3: you know, Jack Nicholson is iconic, of course, and no

1481
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 3: one looks like Jack Nicholson except Jack Nicholson. Like he is.

1482
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 3: He's a legend, He's an icon from what I've heard.

1483
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 3: Dennis Hopper is also in this scene, but I have

1484
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 3: never been able to spot him, But then again, I

1485
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 3: also couldn't spot a net Funicello, so that's not saying much.

1486
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 2: I did not spot Dennis Hopper either, so I don't

1487
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 2: know where he is in there.

1488
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 3: But there's I do go in this scene though. It's

1489
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 3: so it's so beautiful, like and just everything that's happening

1490
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 3: in this scene. This is this is the diner scene, correct,

1491
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 3: the later scene where they're they're arguing with the with

1492
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 3: the the director. Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

1493
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 2: But let's see other things in the movie. We've already

1494
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:07,759
Speaker 2: mentioned that the Davy Jones boxing with Sonny Liston scene.

1495
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 2: There is there's the you're the dummy theme. This is

1496
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 2: a recurring thing in the movie where the monkeys kind

1497
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 2: of have a dispute about which one of them is

1498
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,599
Speaker 2: the dummy, and they decide Peter is the dummy. He's

1499
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: always the dummy, but in fact Peter in the end

1500
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 2: is revealed to be the one with wisdom right, and

1501
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,639
Speaker 2: this gives it goes into another one of the musical numbers,

1502
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 2: a song called as We Go Along, written by Carol

1503
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 2: King and Tony Stern. I don't know who's singing this one.

1504
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 2: It sounds like a female voice, so it could be

1505
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 2: Carol King singing, but I don't know for sure. This

1506
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 2: one's kind of a hopeful sounding hippie ballad almost kind

1507
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,639
Speaker 2: of reminds me of the vibe of like Both Sides Now.

1508
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 2: And we see Peter Tork wandering through landscapes of snow flowers, forests,

1509
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 2: rocky beaches. It's like a land escape video. But then

1510
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 2: this transitions straight into a montage of advertising billboards, and

1511
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 2: then we go into the factory scene where the monkeys

1512
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 2: are touring a factory. What does this factory make? I

1513
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 2: think it makes shapes, that's what we see. Yeah, and

1514
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 2: something that looks like v eight juice that we see

1515
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:20,679
Speaker 2: guys like coming. It's coming out of spouts and guys

1516
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 2: are drinking it, and the foreman giving them the factory

1517
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 2: tour explains that soon everything will be automated and then

1518
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 2: the only work left to humanity will be figuring out

1519
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 2: how to amuse itself, and he ominously comments that we

1520
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 2: should be careful what we wish for.

1521
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 3: We're getting closer to that every day.

1522
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the monkeys they like somehow from the

1523
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 2: factory they get they walk into a giant tu pay

1524
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 2: and they are like being I think they're being ordered

1525
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:52,559
Speaker 2: to film a commercial for something having to do with

1526
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 2: the two pay. Like this is the Dandriff scene? Can

1527
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 2: you explain this seth, what's going on?

1528
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, how transition from the factory

1529
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 3: to the dan Driff happens. I'm not entirely sure. There's

1530
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 3: a few really great transitions where you can kind of

1531
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 3: like see the A to the B. I'm not sure

1532
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 3: if I can connect to this one. But so we

1533
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:15,280
Speaker 3: have a giant and I mean enormous pile of fake

1534
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 3: large scale hair and the four monkeys dressed all in white,

1535
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 3: and the director is yelling at them and commanding them, no,

1536
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 3: roll around, roll on, wrap yourself up in there. You're

1537
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 3: dan drff, you're dander.

1538
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 2: Get in there, get in the hair.

1539
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 3: And then I think, once again, we see another example

1540
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 3: of your my puppets. Just do the stupid thing so

1541
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 3: I can hurry up and film it, we can move

1542
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 3: on with our lives. I need you to just do

1543
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,600
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. You don't need to understand it, you

1544
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 3: don't need to have any commentary. Just roll around in there,

1545
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 3: get in there.

1546
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 2: And then we get a like zoom out where the

1547
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 2: hair is revealed to be the hair of Victor Mature,

1548
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 2: the Hollywood actor and the like Hollywood leading man, who's

1549
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 2: got very nice looking hair, very well coaffed, and his

1550
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:11,879
Speaker 2: hair is being vacuumed. Was this a common hair grooming

1551
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:14,599
Speaker 2: procedure in the sixties to vacuum your hair?

1552
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:17,559
Speaker 3: To me, have you ever heard of it?

1553
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 2: But okay, so his hair is being vacuumed, and then

1554
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,679
Speaker 2: the monkeys get sucked up into the vacuum, and then

1555
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 2: somehow in this whole sequence, Davy gets separated, and then

1556
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 2: we get another musical number. It's completely different from anything

1557
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 2: that's come before, but I think is really good. Davy

1558
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 2: finds himself alone on a sound stage and begins a

1559
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 2: wonderful musical number that is visually dazzling by relying on

1560
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 2: such a simple visual effect, which is editing between two

1561
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 2: takes that each have completely inverted colors. So in one

1562
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 2: take it's a white set with Davy Jones wearing a

1563
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 2: black suit and a white shirt, and in the other

1564
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 2: all the colors are the opposite, and they cut back

1565
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 2: and forth between these two and the effect is fantastic. Also,

1566
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 2: Davies dancing is really good, and he's got a dancing

1567
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 2: partner and she's really good too. I was trying to

1568
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 2: find out who his dancing partner was here, but I'm

1569
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 2: not sure who it was.

1570
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,719
Speaker 3: I can say this in many situations throughout this film,

1571
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:20,160
Speaker 3: if you look into who the female cast member is,

1572
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:23,559
Speaker 3: it's quite often someone's wife or girlfriend that that happened

1573
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 3: many times, like Jack Nicholson's girlfriend at the time was

1574
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,959
Speaker 3: in this. I believe a couple of the Monkeys' wives

1575
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 3: were in this. Like that was a common thread throughout

1576
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 3: this film was Friends of the Monkeys.

1577
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:39,800
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, But then coming to the song itself, this

1578
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:43,639
Speaker 2: is the one written by Harry Nilson called Daddy's Song,

1579
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,439
Speaker 2: which the song sounds kind of cheerful, it sounds like

1580
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 2: it's like a classic classic Broadway show tune, but actually

1581
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 2: it is quite sad. It's a sad narrative about a

1582
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 2: young boy who remembers looking up to his father, but

1583
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 2: then his father abandons his family, and he tells about

1584
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 2: how his mother didn't know how to explain it to

1585
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 2: her son, and then he reflects on how he thinks

1586
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 2: he might never tell his own children. It is a

1587
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 2: once again, just like a very strange and much darker

1588
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,559
Speaker 2: and more thoughtful song then you would guess from the

1589
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 2: sound of it or from its context in the film.

1590
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 3: And Nielsen actually did this multiple times for them. Another

1591
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 3: really great one is a song called Cuddly Toy, another

1592
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,480
Speaker 3: one that has this kind of like soft shoe Broadway

1593
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 3: vibe to it. It's from their album Piss's Aquarius Capricorn

1594
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 3: and Jones Limited, and once again it's got Davy Jones

1595
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 3: up front being this kind of like corny dude with

1596
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 3: like a sad undertone. Like it's that they really had

1597
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 3: a good thing going at this point. And do you

1598
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 3: think that there was a deliberate metaphor here of separating

1599
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:56,680
Speaker 3: the the one monkey that did stand out that was

1600
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,479
Speaker 3: different from the others. He's one British monkey compared to

1601
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 3: the three am and monkeys. Ah, yes, he's the song

1602
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 3: and dance man. They're all hippies, Like, like, hmmm. I

1603
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 3: wonder if there was this kind of intentional division, or

1604
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 3: if perhaps it's as simple as like Davy Jones being like, hey,

1605
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 3: I want I want a song, you know, give me

1606
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 3: a chance to get up there and do my thing too.

1607
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that, but

1608
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:22,759
Speaker 2: it actually does connect to something that I was talking

1609
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 2: about with Rachel. So she actually she had more knowledge

1610
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 2: of the monkeys growing up than I did, so going

1611
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 2: into this movie she knew more about the monkeys than me.

1612
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 2: And she pointed out how the movie kind of messes

1613
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: with the character of each monkey. So like Davy the

1614
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:40,080
Speaker 2: cute one is the fighter in the movie. He's the

1615
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:42,679
Speaker 2: guy who's boxing and we constantly see him actually doing

1616
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 2: like doing karate and trying to fight people. Peter the

1617
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,719
Speaker 2: supposed dummy or the kind of like the naive one

1618
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 2: is the wise enlightened one in this movie. Mickey the

1619
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 2: funny one is shown having very like dark moods and

1620
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 2: is placed in a very dark context. And then the

1621
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 2: odd one out here is kind of Mike. I'm not

1622
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 2: sure how Mike fits this, like playing with the character.

1623
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 2: He does still seem pretty serious in the movie. I

1624
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 2: don't know if you have thoughts on that, but that

1625
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 2: seemed interesting to me that the movie takes time to

1626
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 2: single each one out at various points and then kind

1627
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:18,639
Speaker 2: of invert them for sure.

1628
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:20,240
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, I think you're completely right that

1629
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 3: Mike Nesbeth doesn't quite get the subversion. I don't think

1630
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 3: anything really happens to him. Maybe it's the fact that

1631
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:29,959
Speaker 3: in general he's seen as like the leader of the monkeys,

1632
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 3: and in this film he doesn't really lead them at

1633
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,559
Speaker 3: any point, like he is in many ways just kind

1634
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 3: of a passive character. But that's a stretch that's me

1635
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 3: really reaching for it. Now.

1636
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 2: There are a bunch of other sequences in the movie.

1637
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:52,639
Speaker 2: There's the horror movie sequence with like an eye behind

1638
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 2: a mirror. That's great stuff. Yeah, like Davy season eye

1639
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 2: behind a mirror in the bathroom and then he tries

1640
01:30:58,040 --> 01:30:59,760
Speaker 2: to show it to other people but they can't see it.

1641
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 2: There's that leads into a kind of go go dancer

1642
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 2: freak out scene set to a song called do I

1643
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,320
Speaker 2: Have to Do This all over again? That title's kind

1644
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 2: of on the nose from the themes. There's also this

1645
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 2: whole thing with like the monkeys searching for quote the answer,

1646
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,680
Speaker 2: and there is a scene where like a guru inspires

1647
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 2: Peter to reflect on how we cannot tell reality from illusion.

1648
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:28,599
Speaker 2: And then when we get to the ending, we actually

1649
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:31,120
Speaker 2: return to the beginning. Seth, I know you wanted to

1650
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:32,560
Speaker 2: talk about the ending. Do you do you want to

1651
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 2: take this here?

1652
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,040
Speaker 3: Sure? So at the end, we actually at first aren't

1653
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 3: even sure that we're re entering the beginning again, because

1654
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:43,840
Speaker 3: it starts with basically all the characters from all the

1655
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 3: scenes we've seen all the way up until now pursuing

1656
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:50,440
Speaker 3: the four monkeys. They're chasing them. Some of the characters

1657
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 3: are feeling quite you know, antagonistic towards them chasing them around,

1658
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, And eventually we do start to

1659
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:58,639
Speaker 3: put it together that oh, they're back on the bridge again,

1660
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:01,679
Speaker 3: and we're basically seeing the same scene from the beginning,

1661
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:04,920
Speaker 3: except that we just have context. Now we see who

1662
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,760
Speaker 3: the chaser is, the camera is letting us see this

1663
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:10,760
Speaker 3: mob behind them. So in the beginning, if you're just

1664
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:14,799
Speaker 3: watching it without context, it feels like the monkeys committed

1665
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 3: suicide on their own, that they felt the need, that

1666
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 3: they were like, the monkeys are over, let's go, and

1667
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 3: they just jump off the bridge. Now with this extra context,

1668
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 3: we can see that they were being pursued, that they

1669
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 3: were being forced to do this, that in many ways, we,

1670
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:32,679
Speaker 3: the audience or perhaps society at large, forced them to jump.

1671
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 3: That we ended the monkeys, not the monkeys. The monkeys

1672
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,519
Speaker 3: they were just they were just dealing with what we

1673
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 3: gave them, that they were reacting to our pursuits and

1674
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:47,719
Speaker 3: anger and whatever. Maybe even our need for the monkeys

1675
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 3: caused the monkeys to have to end. But yeah, it's

1676
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 3: it's that it's our fault. We ended the monkeys, not

1677
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:54,679
Speaker 3: the monkeys.

1678
01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 2: It's our fault. And it's the creators of the monkey's

1679
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 2: fault because it's like the filmmaking apparatus is also chasing them,

1680
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 2: all of the actors and everything.

1681
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 3: It's everyone's fault except the monkeys. Yeah.

1682
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so like they jump off, and but we

1683
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 2: get a return of the porpoise song. So there is

1684
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 2: this this idea of the freedom of the porpoise, and

1685
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 2: you wonder if maybe it's going to be a happy

1686
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 2: ending where they actually do become like the porpoise, and they,

1687
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:24,280
Speaker 2: you know, when they hit the water, maybe they swim

1688
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 2: out to sea and become free on their own. But instead,

1689
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 2: when we last see them in the water, and then

1690
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,519
Speaker 2: it is you're teased with this idea of them becoming

1691
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 2: like wild animals, you know, marine mammals with freedom, but

1692
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 2: instead we realize that they are in fact in a

1693
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 2: fish tank on the back of a truck being lorded

1694
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 2: over by Victor Mature. This like this devilish demi urge

1695
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,559
Speaker 2: figure who's like sitting there in a director's chair, smoking

1696
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:53,479
Speaker 2: a pipe and grinning wickedly as they are as they

1697
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 2: are carried away on a trailer presumably to be I

1698
01:33:57,240 --> 01:34:00,639
Speaker 2: don't know, like shelved and archived or something, or maybe.

1699
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 3: Put in a zoos. People can can continue to stare

1700
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:05,800
Speaker 3: at the monkeys, you know, you know, it would be

1701
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:08,799
Speaker 3: a fun art project that would actually be relatively easy.

1702
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 3: Think of this as like a museum art installation where

1703
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 3: you walk through and you see like those little like

1704
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,639
Speaker 3: side screening rooms where they're showing like an art film,

1705
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 3: you can sit down and watch for a minute and

1706
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 3: then get up and walk out. You could easily turn

1707
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 3: this movie into an infinite loop that they are pursued

1708
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:26,559
Speaker 3: and then when they jump, you just seamlessly edited that

1709
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:29,280
Speaker 3: back into the original jumping off of the bridge, and

1710
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 3: it just goes again and again and again. This could

1711
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:35,840
Speaker 3: very easily be an infinite loop of a movie, and

1712
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 3: I'd love to see that. I wonder how many times

1713
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:38,679
Speaker 3: they can make it through.

1714
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 2: That's a great idea. Yeah, organize it, Seth. You put

1715
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 2: it together, get the rights.

1716
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 3: I'll set aside some gallery space and yeah.

1717
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I think that is all I have

1718
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,479
Speaker 2: to say about head Seth. Do you have anything else

1719
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:57,320
Speaker 2: you want to talk about before we wrap up here?

1720
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 3: No, but I will say if anyone if this is

1721
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 3: their first introduction to the Monkeys, I'm sure there are

1722
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:04,960
Speaker 3: people in the audience who are very familiar with the

1723
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 3: Monkeys and some that have never seen anything from them.

1724
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:13,600
Speaker 3: I genuinely do recommend several Monkeys albums. But here's like

1725
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:17,000
Speaker 3: the big thing to keep in mind. The Monkeys actually

1726
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 3: barely existed like the in like the Grand Timeline of life.

1727
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,680
Speaker 3: When they were having like a successful artistic output. It

1728
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 3: was such a small window. The first album they put

1729
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 3: out was in nineteen sixty six. This album is in

1730
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,920
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, and in that window they released one, two, three, four,

1731
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:39,200
Speaker 3: five six albums and they had to already go through

1732
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 3: an entire upheaval of people thinking that they're frauds and

1733
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 3: fighting back for creative control. That whole window of sixty

1734
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:50,160
Speaker 3: six to sixty eight is just two years, and yet

1735
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:55,480
Speaker 3: it encompasses this whole enormous situation that just do It's

1736
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 3: it's it's similar to when you look at the Beatles

1737
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 3: and you see how much they accomplished and they short

1738
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 3: time as a band because they're releasing more than one

1739
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 3: album a year. In sixty seven, they released three albums.

1740
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 3: In sixty eight they released two. Oh I'm talking about

1741
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:10,680
Speaker 3: the Monkeys again, by the way. So I do think

1742
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 3: it's important to look into them as just a musical act.

1743
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 3: And I will say, personally, my three favorite albums of

1744
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 3: theirs are I mentioned it briefly. Pisce's Aquarius, Capricorn and

1745
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:24,760
Speaker 3: Jones Limited from nineteen sixty seven, The Birds, the Bees

1746
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 3: and the Monkeys from nineteen sixty eight. That one's kind

1747
01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 3: of their wide album because they all had their own

1748
01:36:30,479 --> 01:36:33,479
Speaker 3: very independent ideas of what they wanted their next album

1749
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:35,719
Speaker 3: to be, so they all kind of split off, produced

1750
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 3: their own things, and then cobbled it back together like

1751
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:41,799
Speaker 3: a quilt, which is pretty fun. Then, oh, of course,

1752
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 3: of course. And then in nineteen sixty eight Head of Course.

1753
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:49,080
Speaker 3: I think that's also a wonderful album, which there are

1754
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 3: two versions of. Both are good, but the original version,

1755
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 3: the one Jack Nicholson Babe's, that's the preferred version.

1756
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 2: And hey, folks, if you would like to hear Seth

1757
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:00,160
Speaker 2: talk about music like this all the time, you can

1758
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:04,559
Speaker 2: subscribe to his other podcast, Rusty Needles Record Club. Seth,

1759
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:06,960
Speaker 2: do you want to pitch the show? What's the deal

1760
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 2: with Rusty Needles Record Club?

1761
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 3: I love to It's an old style podcast, back in

1762
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 3: the days, pre advertising, pre gosh, what else do podcasts

1763
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 3: have now? Pre celebrities, pre true crime, none of that stuff.

1764
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:24,879
Speaker 3: It's the old style. We just sit around in chitchat

1765
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:27,880
Speaker 3: for a while and then it's over and much like

1766
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 3: this show, which I really appreciate. There's a big difference

1767
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:33,759
Speaker 3: between old style podcast and new style podcast. And anyway,

1768
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 3: that's a whole nother thing. Rusty Needles Record Club is

1769
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:39,080
Speaker 3: a show where it's like a book club, but for music.

1770
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:41,639
Speaker 3: Each episode is a different album me and my co host.

1771
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 3: We listen to it, we talk about it, we break

1772
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 3: it down based on facts, based on our feelings, and

1773
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:49,040
Speaker 3: then we give the album a review. But ultimately it's

1774
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:51,400
Speaker 3: just a place for people who love music to kind

1775
01:37:51,439 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 3: of get some music conversation in their ears, to have

1776
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:57,439
Speaker 3: like a nice relaxed parasocial relationship with some other people.

1777
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,920
Speaker 3: If you don't happen to have other friends around you

1778
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 3: that you can talk about things like what your favorite

1779
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:04,880
Speaker 3: Monkeys album is, I'll do that for you.

1780
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:09,000
Speaker 2: Well, chipchat, the show is Rusty Needles Record Club. And

1781
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 2: there's an apostrophe before the s on Needles right exactly.

1782
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:16,160
Speaker 3: This is Rusty Needle. He owns the record club.

1783
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:20,439
Speaker 2: Yes, there you go wherever podcasts are found. Yep, yep,

1784
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 2: look it up. Well, thank you so much for joining

1785
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 2: me today, Seth. It has been a real pleasure to

1786
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 2: have you back on the show again. And let's do

1787
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 2: it again in the.

1788
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 3: Future absolutely anytime.

1789
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 2: All right, that does it for today. Huge thanks again

1790
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 2: to Seth Nicholas Johnson for joining us. If you are

1791
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 2: new to the show and would like to check us out,

1792
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 2: why not subscribe to Stuff to Blow your Mind wherever

1793
01:38:44,439 --> 01:38:47,200
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts. We offer a variety of different

1794
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:50,680
Speaker 2: things on each day of the week. Our core episodes

1795
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 2: usually about science or science and culture in some way

1796
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:57,200
Speaker 2: or on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we read listener mail.

1797
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:00,360
Speaker 2: On Wednesdays we do a short form scripted series is

1798
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 2: called The Artifact or the Monster Fact or even new

1799
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 2: forms of the short scripted show or Emerging. On Fridays,

1800
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 2: we do this show Weird House Cinema, where we just

1801
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 2: talk about a weird film, good or bad, well known

1802
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:17,000
Speaker 2: or obscure. We do them all as long as they

1803
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 2: are strange in some way. And then on Saturdays we

1804
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 2: run an episode from the Vault, an older episode of

1805
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:26,960
Speaker 2: the show Let's See Huge. Thanks as always to our

1806
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 2: excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like to

1807
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:32,719
Speaker 2: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode

1808
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 2: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,

1809
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 2: or just to say hello, you can email us at

1810
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 2: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

1811
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,840
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1812
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,719
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1813
01:39:52,880 --> 01:39:56,160
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.