WEBVTT - #252 Jason Flom with Allan Woodhouse and Brian Anderson 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.680 On Tuesday, July seventeenth, nineteen seventy three, a local chef 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.720 and father of two, Ting Fong Chan, walked home from 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:13.920 his night shift in Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada at around six am. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.720 His body was found beaten and stabbed death near a 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.680 construction site. An eyewitness saw the assailants through the darkness 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.000 and described the group as four or five men with 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.040 long hair. The police asked if the assailants may have 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.560 been indigenous. The eyewitness couldn't say either way without a 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.680 definitive answer, investigators began canvassing the local indigenous population, and 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.240 a man named Adam Woodhouse told them about a recent 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.880 gathering at his home attended by Clarence and Russell Woodhouse 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.479 as well as their cousin Brian Anderson. However, this gathering 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.720 happened on Thursday night, not on Monday into Tuesday, the 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.080 night of the crime. Despite the confusion over the date, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.880 as well as the uncertainty over the assailants ethnicity, Clarence 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.920 and Russell Woodhouse, Brian Anderson, as well as their younger 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.400 friend Allan Woodhouse underwent a series of coercive and in 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:06.520 some cases, violent interrogations, resulting in four false confessions written 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.760 in the language in which none of them were entirely fluent. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.320 The trial consisted of the presentation of these alleged confessions 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:19.440 against four matching recantations, as well as alibi witnesses and 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:24.760 accusations of police misconduct and brutality. Fifty years later, Brian 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.880 Anderson and Alan Woodhouse share their harrowing story and the 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:46.680 struggle to clear their names. This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.560 back to wrongful Conviction. This is an episode it's going 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.000 to take everyone who listens on a journey, not just 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.320 far away because this took place in the Great White North, 0:01:55.520 --> 0:02:00.680 but also to a place of disbelief for how a system, 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.240 in this case, the system in Canada, can do what 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.800 it does to innocent civilians. Let me introduce our guests 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.320 and then we'll explain more about the case. With us, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.800 we have two wrongfully convicted men. First of all, Brian Anderson, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.960 Welcome to wrongful Conviction. I'm sorry you're here under the circumces, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.480 but I'm happy you're here. Thank you and with us 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.760 as well as Alan Woodhouse, so grateful for you being 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:26.440 here as well. 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.160 Thank you very much for having me here today. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.240 And joining us. Is an incredible woman named bob and Sody. 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.360 Bobbin is the attorney of record for these men. She 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.239 was the legal director at Innocence Canada at the time 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.120 that she got involved with this case, and she's currently 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.720 got one of the most amazing and interesting jobs I 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.960 think in the entire world of criminal justice. She is 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.080 the intake director at the Innocence Project of New York. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.320 So Bobin, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.320 Thanks so much for having us, Jason, so. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.360 Bobn I almost feel like I want to let you 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.520 set the stage here. I mean, this case is so nuts. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.320 It involves lies from people in positions of power, false confessions. 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.320 At least one of the men didn't even speak the 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.320 language of the confession that he was signing, that he 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.240 didn't even know was a confession, Jason. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.240 For me, this was one of the first cases I 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.640 worked on in my role as legal director at Innocence Canada, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.960 and it's one of those cases that right off the 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.480 batch you know that something isn't right. You know. My 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.040 co counsel, Jerome Kennedy has always put it best. We 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.040 started off knowing that this was a nineteen seventy three case. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:41.520 It involved the Winnipeg Police Service, four young Indigenous men 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.480 and George Dangerfield. And as far as innocence Canada was concerned, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.080 that is a recipe for wrongful conviction. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.400 And George Dangerfield just what a name for a guy 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.160 who has the dubious distinction of being the crown prosecutor 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.240 who is responsible for the most wrongful convictions in Canadian history. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.040 And he was unfortunately the top prosecutor in Manitoba, Canada 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.520 for thirty years. And just to paint a picture of 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.120 the guys who ended up getting caught in this nightmare, 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.400 Brian Anderson, who's with us today, had seventh grade education 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.719 and no knowledge of the criminal legal system. He grew 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.880 up on the Fairford Indian Reserve between Lake Manitoba and 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.160 Lake Saint Mark, about two hundred and thirty kilometers or 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.560 one hundred and forty three miles north of Winnipeg. The 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.400 oldest had ten children. At eighteen, he moved to Winnipeg 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.560 to work and live with his grandparents. And his first 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.240 language was not English. He barely spoke English at all. 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.719 His first language was Ojibwe Salto. And he had no 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.880 criminal record whatsoever. This is important, that's important to know, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.160 but it turned out not to matter in this case. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.600 So Brian, tell me about your life growing up. Did 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:44.760 you have a happy childhood? 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:45.520 Yes? 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.840 I did, I think I did. You don't know anything 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.320 about life at that age. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.520 So right, you're a kid, I mean, let's face it. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.400 As a teenager you just said yeah, exactly, figuring it 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.279 out just like anybody else. And Alan, what about for you? 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.279 You lived on the Fairport Indian Reserve as well, with 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.360 English as a second language. You had a ninth grade 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.160 education there. You were seventeen years old, but also with 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.600 no criminal record and moved to Winnipeg two months before 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.240 this awful crime happened. So Alan, what was your life 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.039 like growing up in those times? 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.120 From what you can remember, Well, my childhood is pretty rugged, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.240 so to speak, of eight brothers and two sisters, as 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.760 I was a lot of people. Brian's younger brother I 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:31.400 have and I used to be my hindout buddy. We're 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.800 up at the same age. Brian were a bit of wolder, 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.840 so he hung out with you a wlder crowd. The 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.960 only reason I was in Winnipeg is because to look 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.480 for work. There's no work in a reserve, of course, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.680 because I was over sixteen, so I just moved to 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.719 Winnipeg about a couple of months when I got arrested. 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.320 Right, and before you were arrested, the police picked up 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.120 Clarence Woodhouse, followed by Russell Woodhouse, then you allan Woodhouse, 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.520 and lastly Brian Anderson. And the whole thing started with 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.800 a statement from Woodhouse. First of all, that's a lot 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.520 of woodhouses. So just to keep things straight for our audience. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.000 From what I gather, woodhouse must be a common name, Brian, 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.000 Are any of you guys related. 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:15.160 Yes, I am. They are my cousins, which is the Woodhouses. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.560 Clarence and Russell. We had the same grandfather. We knew 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.440 each other right from the little kids. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.200 I'm not related to any of them, actually not even 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:24.680 Adam Mudos So. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.440 Clarence and Russell were related to you, Brian. But Adam 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.440 and Allen aren't related to any of you guys, right, yes, 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.679 So the crime itself. July seventeenth, nineteen seventy three, forty 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.960 Oho men in ting Pung Chan was beaten and stabbed 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.160 to death near a downtown construction site in Manitoba, which 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.720 is Winnipeg. Mister Chan was a father of two and 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.039 a chef at a restaurant called the Beachcomber. He was 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.440 walking home from the night shift, and his body was 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:54.719 found at six am on the seventeenth. So then comes 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.680 this ridiculous quote unquote investigation. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:02.120 For the first couple of days after Chan's body was found, 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.200 no investigation occurred. Essentially, they were doing a scan of 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.320 the neighborhood and they came across a witness named Daisy 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.640 Towel and Daisy, what's interesting about her is she didn't 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.280 really see much at all. What she claims to have 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.240 seen under the light of a lamp post in the 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.600 middle of the night without her glasses, and she indicated 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:27.760 that she had very poor vision was the outline of 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.080 four or five individuals that had long hair. And when 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.640 the officers put it to her whether she thought they 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.840 were indigenous, she said, well, yes, they could be. And 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.720 you know, the important point here is this was the seventies, 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.640 and so I'm presuming a lot of people had long hair. 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.920 I have fond memories of that era. I mean, long hair, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.880 great music, and this witness could have easily and vaguely 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.720 stuck me into this group as well. I mean I 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.000 fit that much of the description. That's the only description 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.120 they had. So it's important to note that the police 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.640 offered this blurry cited eyewitness the suggestion that the assailants 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.800 were Indigenous, not the other way around. And Alan, I 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.640 know you eventually became a jail house lawyer. Does it 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.840 strike you as business as usual for the police in 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.040 that era with in doubt, just take an indigenous guy, right, 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.520 just start targeting Indigenous people. 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.320 Oh yeah, I mean I think goes wrong right away. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.400 It's Native people even in the reserve. You know, something 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.880 happened outside the reserves. There's better community out there, right 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.280 there has just been Native people. There'd be police driving 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.200 around looking for so and sorry though probly that's the 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:33.960 reality of it. 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:39.240 Unfortunately, the police ended up canvassing the neighborhood on the 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:44.000 lookout essentially for young Indigenous men. And that's how a 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.840 few days later they came upon Adam Woodhouse's house and 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.960 spoke to him. They also spoke to his common law 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.400 partner and his common law partner's daughter. And what I 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.600 will say is English wasn't even the first language of 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.319 these witnesses. So Adam was also someone who was struggling 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:06.120 to understand this context, wasn't provided an interpreter and was participating. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.520 And so when they spoke to Adam on July twenty second, 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.560 he said, well, yes, on the night of the murderer, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.680 I had a group of young Indigenous men with me, 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.880 including Brian Anderson, Clarence Woodhouse, and Russell Woodhouse. And he 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.439 distinctly didn't mention Alan. And what's interesting about the fact 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.680 that he said that is almost immediately following his common 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.920 law partner and his common law partner's daughter said yes, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.960 these young men were at our house, but that actually 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:40.360 occurred Thursday and not on the night in question. And 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.840 the reason that's interesting is a lot of the information 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.680 that Adam was recalling from the evening actually related to 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.840 things that happened on Thursday. So, for example, he referenced 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.320 receiving his check he usually receives that on a Thursday night. 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.160 He referenced using that check in order to buy beer 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.559 again as a result of what happened on Thursday night. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.920 But essentially, the police, ignoring what you know, his common 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.800 law partner and her daughter said, decided to venture out. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.640 And this is when this web began to weave, and 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:17.719 within twenty four hours they managed to get you alleged 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:24.600 confessions from Clarence Woodhouse, Russell Woodhouse, Allan Woodhouse and Brian Anderson. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:29.840 Wow. So no, I mean they didn't even pretend to 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.160 do a real investigation, just the assumption by the police 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.720 that the assailants were indigenous. And Adam Woodhouse told them 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.120 about gathering at his home with Clarence, Russell and Brian, 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.079 nothing about a murder or any conspiracy to commit murder 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:46.840 or any criminal activity at all. And it even turned 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.760 out to be the wrong night entirely Monday into Tuesday 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.400 was when it happened. This was Thursday, but that didn't matter. 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.520 And now the interrogations and false confessions began in a 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:00.160 language you guys didn't even. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.600 I think a really important part of this is understanding 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.400 the sequence of the confessions, just to understand how they 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:12.160 utilized classic read technique despite the fact that everything pointed 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.800 against them. So yes, all four confessions, and this is important, 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.640 all four of the confessions that these boys are alleged 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.640 to have made start off with the exact same sentence. 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.200 All four of them say on Monday night, I was 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.360 and when I read that, I knew that something was amiss. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.280 We have four men who are alleged to have written 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:41.400 these confessions in separate rooms, separate circumstances, varying understanding of English, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.080 and yet all of their statements start the exact same way. 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.160 And so that's when I delved into the actual sequence, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.320 like how did they obtain them? And what I saw 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.760 was classic retechnique. You know. They started off with Clarence. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.280 They took him to the scene, brought him back to 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.199 the station, They asked him to mark up the body 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.400 and where it was that he had attacked, you know, 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:08.640 tingfong Chen, immediately assuming that he was the person responsible. Ultimately, 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.800 this allegedly led to his confession. And what's interesting about 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.199 the confession is it's a partial confession and the only 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.360 person that's mentioned in it is Russell. Then they go 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.480 to Russell and they go look at this confession that 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.960 Clarence gave you. And what's interesting about that is that 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.480 Russell didn't even have enough of an understanding of the 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.080 English language to be able to read the confession that 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.480 Clarence apparently made. So they brought Clarence into the room 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.480 with Russell to read to his brother this confession he's 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:47.040 alleged to have made. And so Russell apparently makes a 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.080 confession same thing on Monday night I was. And so 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.839 not only does he now mention Clarence himself, but he 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.160 also references Alan, and so that is how Alan is 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.360 brought into the story, and so then Alan is arrested. 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.280 He is also shown the confession that now Clarence has 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.360 made and subsequently Russell have made. And what's interesting about 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.600 Alan is he was subjected to physical abuse because he 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.800 refused to make this confession. 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.760 That night, in that particular, when I got picked up, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:20.120 you know, there was a knock on the door, and 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.920 there's two people standing there in suits. I guess you 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:23.880 call them plaines calls. 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:24.160 Now. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.480 He asked me what my name was, So I told 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.760 him who I was. So I said, sorry, grand them 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.400 my wrist. You're the one we're looking for it. So 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.240 I said, way wait, I said, what's going on? I 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.840 want to talk to you. I went downstairs with and 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.240 Mark carra On downstairs and they took me to the 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.679 police stas we're not were the police. I asked him 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.600 what news this about it? He said murder? I said murder. 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:45.600 I said, maybe they had found a dead body and 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.920 they wanted me to go and recognize some of the 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.199 body or see you know, what I mean when we got 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.080 to the police station and they said, Okay, where were 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.199 you on Tuesday night? So I tell at home? Who 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.600 else was there? There's nobody there. It's just me, my 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.240 mother and I lived there. She just had that little apartment, 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.160 and my mother, well, she went out a lot, she 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.000 drank a lot. But anyway, so I told him I 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.600 was at home and they said, oh, there's nobody there, said, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.520 I know, you weren't there. You were at Adam's Wood Streets. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.520 I said, no, I wasn't there. I was there on Thursday. 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:14.360 Yeah. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.600 They went back and forth for a while and they 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:21.160 got angrier and angrier, and they started getting physical. I 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.200 mean they were really rough. I mean they were they're 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.400 hitting me. I mean, I was all bloody. So after 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.960 four hours they rode up the statement, told me to 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.720 sign it and then you can go, I said, So 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.360 I signed it, I said, after they signed, their hand 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.120 covered me ultimately. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.840 Again. Interesting, his confession starts off with on Monday night, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.320 I was and the variation there was. Now this confession 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:50.200 includes Clarence, it includes Russell, it includes Alan, and there 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.080 is the first reference to Brian Anderson. And so then 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.080 they go to Brian and they speak to him, and 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.520 they take Brian to the scene. They show him alleged 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.520 weapons that were utilized, you know, and they show him 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.680 the confessions of the other three boys. Like on Monday night, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:08.160 I was. 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.800 On the twenty third, I got picked up for murder. 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.120 Like I wasn't even a suspect. I was charged already. 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.360 They got me to sign a piece of paper, which 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.400 I did, and I didn't know that was the confession 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.360 that supposedly I had made. 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.160 The idea that you were signing a piece of paper 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.600 in a language you didn't speak with nobody there to 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.040 guide you or help you or advise you. I read 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.880 somewhere that you had thought that it might have been 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.440 just something related to your possessions that they were keeping 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.360 in storage for you while they arrested you. Is that accurate. 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.880 Yes. What they do is they make you empty your 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.120 pockets and that they put stuff aside and you have 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.840 to sign for them. And that's what I thought it was. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.040 That's how crooked they were, you know, they didn't care 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.400 just because they had these witnesses. They were calling them. 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:00.920 That's where they based all their stuff from. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.080 And so at the end of the day, as a 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:08.440 result of this sort of linear sequential experience. Now all 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.920 four boys are alleged to have participated. The statements that 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.400 start very much the same build on each other. So 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.920 first you have just Clarence, then you have Clarence and Russell, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.520 then you have Clarence Russell and Alan, and finally the 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:29.080 final statement Clarence, Russell, Alan and Brian have participated. And 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.800 so essentially you have each of the young men pointing 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.720 the finger at each other and weaving this web for 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:35.320 the police. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:43.880 Actually feels a little bit like a Canadian version of 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.320 New York City's own horror show known as The Central 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.280 Park five, currently known as Exonerated five because they use 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.920 some of the same techniques differently, but you know, using 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.400 everybody against each other and the physical abuse. And it's 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.680 very important for our audience to know that in twenty 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.720 nine percent of the DNA exonerations, the person who was 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:10.520 proven with absolute certainty scientific certainty to be innocent confessed 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.560 to the crime they didn't commit. Just like in this case, Bobin. 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.880 What about physical or forensic evidence? Did they collect any, 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.920 did they examine it? Was there any? Did they even 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.040 make a show out of trying to solve this case? 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:28.239 So that is where this case gets interesting, Jason, They 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.840 actually did collect a lot of forensic evidence. The Winnipeg 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:37.159 Police Service collected fiber analysis here microscopy, So there was 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.600 three hairs that were grasped in Ting Fong Chan's hands. 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:46.119 They had fingerprints, they collected clothing, they undertook presumptive blood tests, 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.359 there was a series of knives that were collected, and 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.680 essentially they used a number of different you know, and 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.080 I used air coute sciences, sciences that have since been 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:02.119 dubbed junk science to these things. But what's amazing about 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.239 this case is Brian Anderson, Alan Woodhouse and the other 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.399 two co accused were excluded from all of them. So 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.679 they engaged in this efforts to try and get something 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:19.399 beyond the confession undertaking these sciences again air quotes that 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.480 have contributed to a number of wrongful convictions, but in 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:27.200 this instance, remarkably, these four men were excluded. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:33.280 So even when they were using these super subjective, absolute 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.120 junk sciences that are very useful for when you want 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.520 to conjure up corroborating evidence for a false confession or 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.280 misidentification or a jail house snitch testimony, even when they 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:48.120 tried to cheat they failed, where so many other unscrupulous 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.320 prosecutors and law enforcement officials have succeeded time and time again. 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.520 So I mean, I'm sure that there are a number 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.880 of people in the audience scratching their heads as I'm 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.440 doing right now and saying, wait, I thought she said 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:02.919 they were excluded. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.399 That's the weirdest thing about this case. So in every 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.080 other case I've ever worked on, there's something more. You know, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.960 there might be hair mark cross that was performed, there 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.879 may be fiber analysis that matches. There might be you know, 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.080 a smudge, fingerprint, or some kind of presumpted blood. But this, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.439 this is that case that the only thing that ties 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.800 these individuals to the case are these confessions they're alleged 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.399 to have made. All of the air quotes. Science that 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.200 they tried to utilize excluded them. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:44.240 But they marched right ahead as if it included them, right, exactly, 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:46.720 It just keeps piling up, right, So we have the 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.679 blind witness, right, we have the false confessions that might 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.280 as well have been written in Chinese or Greek Portuguese 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.560 because you didn't know what the hell you were signing, 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.879 And the physical and forensic evidence collected does match. So 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.280 it's already the pile of sculpatory evidence and factors is 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.520 growing and growing. But also you had an alibi. It 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:10.680 wasn't like you were by yourself that night, right. 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.840 That's right now, staying at my grandfather at the time, 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.040 That's where I was, and Clarence and Russell that was 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:19.080 their residence too. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.400 Yes, I was at home and my mother can confirm 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.800 that the aster where I was on the guy got killed. 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.880 She said I was at home when she got home, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.800 but then she said she was drunk. There's the bars 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.960 closed about twelve o'clock. Then she walked from the main 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.040 street to Isabel Street, the a'ster about fifteen minute to 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.639 twenty minute walk, So that would be about two o'clock 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.520 when I was at home, because she said I was 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.760 complaining to her about her becoming home late, because you know, 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:49.240 I had to get up in the morning. Hear this, 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.879 So I don't I be walking at two o'clock in 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.720 the morning and waking me up, And that's how she remembered. 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.320 So you guys both underwent preliminary hearings. Alan you were 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.919 discharged November nineteen seventy three after the preliminary hearing based 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.000 on the finding that the statement to police was involuntary 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:11.360 and thereby inadmissible, and you were discharged, but you were 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.880 mentioned in the other statements, and then they were still 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.280 able to put you on trial, and they had you 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.560 bumped up from juvenile court into adult court. It just 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.320 keeps getting worse to stand trial along with Brian and 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:24.840 your other two co defendants. 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:26.080 Right, that's right. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.040 So now we get to the trial, and you got 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.520 George Dangerfield. We talked about the notorious prosecutor. This trial 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:37.400 took place February eighteenth through March fifth. Now, obviously you've 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.440 studied it in detail, Bob, and tell us about this trial. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.960 The only thing here is the confessions the trial. Jidge 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:46.720 actually says that, and I'm going to read you a 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.119 quote from his instructions to the jury. The whole case 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.200 basically against these accused, each of them rests on his 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.480 own statement, and that sort of summarizes the trial. The 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.840 entire length of the trial focused on these statements, and 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:07.680 it was essentially a competition on who was telling the truth. 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.560 You know, you had these supposedly upstanding officers that were 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.119 presenting this case vouching for the fact that these individuals 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.560 had confessed to them. And on the opposite side you 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.919 had four young indigenous men who were sort of villified. 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.720 They didn't speak English, they weren't provided with interpreters, and 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.240 essentially it was their word against the police, the. 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.960 Word of the same police officers who had beaten Allen, 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.520 who was a child. They literally beat him to extract 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.520 the statement that was then, of course, later presented against 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:41.200 him at trial. 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:43.640 Oh yeah, well that's the only thing. That's the only 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.320