WEBVTT - Spencer Proffer 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Steps Podcast. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.599 My guest today is movie producer, record producer, all around 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.639 creative wonder Kin Spencer Prophet Spencer. Good to have you 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.720 on the podcast, Bob. It's good. I've been following you 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:26.560 for a year. It's good to see you're good to 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.200 talk to you man. Okay, So you have this new 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:34.959 movie about American Pie, Don McLean's legendary song. How did 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.320 this come to be? Well, it started when I was 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.480 a student U c l A. I pulled over when 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.839 I heard the song. Three minutes and I still kept listening. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.680 Six minutes and I still kept listening. I was in 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.599 a band. I've failed, but I said to myself, if 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.200 I ever grow up and get to be a macher 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.720 in the music business, I'd like to do something with it. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.520 Four years ago, I heard from Don's manager after I 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:06.800 finished my John Coltrane documentary with Denzel Washington narrating, and 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.920 Kurt Webster said, are you interested in doing it doc 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.240 on Don? I said, I'm really interested because I knew 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.520 that Don wrote American Pie to me a great piece 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.319 of poetry, not that I put it with you know, 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.120 Keats and Shakespeare, and Dennison, but I consider it great, 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.119 great literary work. I said it would be my honor 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.800 if I could do a dock on the journey of 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.960 the song, taking down up to when he wrote it 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.959 and then following the trajectory of the song for the 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.640 life of the song, past president of future. That's what 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.679 we did. But I got involved with it spiritually way 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.880 back fifty plus years ago. Okay, what was the inspiration 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.920 for the manager to call you to connect? I believe 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.440 we had a mutual friend, Ray Dela Garza, and he's 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:56.560 seen my John coltrane Um documentary which was on Netflix 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:01.240 at the time, directed by John Sheinfeld and Denzel Washington 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.680 had narrated Bill Clinton, Common Santana Or in it. It's 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.160 real good. And my approach to making dots is very 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:13.160 different than the normal bear. And possibly that that plus 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.440 Forbes article that said that I was from the inside 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.280 coming out as opposed to guys like brilliant guys Scorsese, 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.840 e Ron Howard, Peter Jackson, genius directors. But they're from 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.720 the outside end, as you know, because we met during 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.960 your sanctuary days. I come from the music. I care, 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.960 I get goose bumps, and uh, I want to make 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:40.799 film that reflects the goose bumps. Okay, so he calls you, 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:42.760 at what point do you decide you're gonna do it? 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.880 And what's the first step? First step is I immediately 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.320 and viscerally and spiritually said I have to be involved. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.959 Then the question is who pays for it, who distributes it, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.919 who markets it. There's some wonderful guys running the new 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.799 Paramount Global company from Bob back issues the chairman to 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.040 Bruce Kilmer, president of music. Now Bruce for thirty five 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.760 years used to be a VH one. So I called Bruce. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.320 I sent him the Coltrane film. I said I'd like 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.480 to talk to you about gave him a little bit 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.040 of the vision. He set up a zoom call Bob, 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.880 Bruce and I talked, and within seventy two hours I 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.040 started the process. We papered it with his business affairs 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:30.360 guys who were terrific, and literally within three weeks I 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.640 was on a director search. So how did you know 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.680 what the budget would be? Because I asked for and 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.560 so you just pull the pull the number out of 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.560 your rear red and said this this sounds to be 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.360 like what it would take to make a Doomic Lane film. No, 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.480 I said, how much is Bob lefts it's his house 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:52.720 worth now triple it now, now, seriously, I can't spend 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.080 less than a couple of million bucks to do something 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.960 the way I want to do it. Um, we brainstormed 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.640 what it could be. I didn't know who I would get, 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.640 I didn't know how deeply Garth Brooks would get into it. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.520 I didn't know how many songs we would use to 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.480 decorate the spirit of the time, the trajectory. I wanted 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.880 to do new, young versions of it to show the 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.960 public that the song is not only a classic then, 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.320 but it could be for the future. And we did, 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.200 and I just estimated in my head. I pulled the 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.200 number a little bit out of my butt, but I 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.720 kind of knew what it takes to do it at 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:30.560 the level that I want to do it. And it's 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.520 not like a generica. Okay, if you make a deal 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.080 with Paramount and the Paramount plus it ultimately released on 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:42.120 and how many how many rights do you cough up? 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:43.839 Do they own it a percent? Do you have a 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.440 back end interest? What are the deals in today's documentary world? Well, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.200 the deals with me are different than they are with others, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.719 and I can't you know, it's almost like Woodward and Bernstein. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.520 I can't reveal my sources. I can tell you that's 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.120 the copyright is in the name of uh my company 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.600 named Morland, named after my children. I can tell you 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.560 that they have the perpetual right to stream it. I 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.120 have some territories. I have some extension rights. We've done 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:15.360 an illustrated children's book on it, which is a prequel, 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.280 and it kind of talks about Donna as a young 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.680 newspaper boy learning about friendship and hope and how music. 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.240 For me it's people soul. I'm able to carve out 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.200 certain extension rights to it, but I can't go into 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.200 the details of what the deals truly are, other than 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.400 saying I continue making an Elvis comeback doc right now 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.080 with the same people, plan to do anymore. I really 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:42.039 like working with this team over a paramount plus, so 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:46.839 I had to find a director. I looked at different 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.080 people's work over a period of six months. Don was 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.440 tremendous in doing zoom calls. When I found someone I 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.039 was interested in, we did four and I remember when 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.599 Godless I'm Argan, when he was alive, he had told 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.040 me of a director that had done that Tom dow 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:08.240 Dock that actually dealt with them, great documentary, right, And 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.440 this guy is not famous, he's not a household name. 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.719 He's not sitting with m Emmy. He's an Academy nominations 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:16.880 like some of the people that I talked to. But 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.000 I'm all about the work. I'm not just about somebody's 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.440 resume or somebody you know that somebody's going to pay 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.480 me to do something. So I looked him up, and 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.599 I looked at a couple of other things Mark Mormon 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.440 that he did, and I said, oh my god, this 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.200 guy is really good. He really understands the psychist of 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.080 music and the evolution of music through periods, which is 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.640 what that doctor Tom down Dock was. And I was 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.760 also working with Eddie Kramer, who is kind of one 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.680 of the quintessential engineers. I am making Eddie stock through 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:52.200 his Hendrix, Rolling Stone Zeppelin period. And I said to myself, Man, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.800 this guy Mormon really knows the stuff. I reached out 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.240 to him cold and we talked and we bonded. He 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.560 flew out to l A. I did a zoom call 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:07.600 it Don. Don trusted me Don like Mark, and we started. Okay, 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.360 now the film goes extensively into the plane crash with 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:17.680 Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper. Richie Valens has uh the 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.160 actual corn field that they crashed in. How did you 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.600 decide on the construction of the movie in terms of 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:29.240 what was going to be the varying, varying elements. Well, 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:33.320 the elements were product of brainstorming between myself and the director. 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:38.200 But Mark has vision, he's a cinematographer. We definitely wanted 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.040 to anchor this to the field of Dreams and Iowa, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.080 where the plane did crash. Don doesn't pilgrimage. He did 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.400 one fifty years later to the Surf Ballroom, which was 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.160 the place, the last place that Buddy Holly and you 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.240 know they did that concert. So all of this was 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.120 the vision of his start there. But it's not a 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.080 Buddy Holly doc. It's not Iowa a doc. It's just 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.440 the anchor. But the song traveled way beyond Iowa. Okay. 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.720 So I'm very interested having watched the film. Was the 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.960 Surf Ballroom just preserved as it was because they realize 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.040 the monumental effect of those artists that they have gigs there? 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.920 Is it a museum? I know that ultimately Don plays 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.840 there in the in the film. But what's the status 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.840 of the Surf Ballroom today? It's living and breathing. It 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.560 is considered a national monument. They've kind of upgraded it. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.080 You can see by watching the film the pictures of 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.720 some of the icons who have played there, and of 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.640 course you see a tribute to Richie Ballance and Buddy 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.400 Holly and the Big Bopper. But now it's a living, breathing, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.600 functioning place. But at the same time it became the 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.040 anchor of the stock at least get going with it. Okay, 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.440 you have a long history of dealing with artists, and 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.240 one thing we know about artists, it's their one and 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.400 only career. If they make a mistake, it might kill 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.480 their career and a manager, dus or whatever label can 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:06.520 move on. Right, How difficult was it working with Don 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.360 who does not have a reputation for being easy going. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.360 I think Don is a brilliant, wonderful, warm guy if 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:18.360 you catch him properly, he's intelligent, he's got a number 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.640 of degrees. He doesn't suffer fools. Well, I had to 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.800 be on my game and I was, and he's got 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.720 a very smart manager who also paid attention. But I 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.480 found on to be very gracious, and he said, if 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.280 it ain't broke down, fixed it. Every time Mark and 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.240 I would come up with stuff and we'd have rough 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.480 cuts of this stat or the other. I'd share it 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.720 with them. I'm very collaborative with the artists, and because 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.800 I come from the music as opposed to a suit 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.760 trying to impose my view on it, Don became very collaborative. 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.600 He was great. Who is Don's manager? Guy named Kurt 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:56.240 Webster based on a national Okay, so what did you 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.720 learn making the movie about American Pie and Don mc lane? Well? 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.000 I learned the reveals that he decided to reveal. Who 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.680 was the jester? Was it Bob Dylan? What was thorny crown? Well, 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.000 Elvis was the king, but he didn't wear a thorny 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.320 crown because Jesus Christ bore the thorny crown. What I 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.959 learned was what was inside Donald's head and a heart 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.840 and spirit. When he wrote a big song for the country, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.840 the Marching, I used to run the sts at u 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.120 c l A very much protesting the war in my 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:33.880 younger days, and when the marching element came up in 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.280 the song, little did I know that there was a 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:41.400 march that was really happening. People were marching in seventy 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:45.280 seventy one. I got it's very deep. It's much deeper 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.000 than just a campfire song, but it's got a good hook. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.080 How did you segue from making records to making documentaries? 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.800 By having directed a number of videos on the records 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:02.240 that I produced, getting next to the creative as I've 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:06.959 always been, And actually in nine seven I had the 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.199 good fortune to work with Robbie Robertson, whose best friend 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.840 at the time was Martin Scorsese. We made it doc 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.480 on how Robbie kind of wanted to be in film 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.760 Scorsese wanted to be in music. How they teamed up 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.439 after the Last Waltz and I was able to work 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.160 with Ida grow Wits and some people that I knew 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.559 In putting that doc together. We had two Emmy nominations. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:34.080 That was before it was fashionable to do music docs. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.559 How did I segue? Because I come from the music 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.600 and I care about with the songs and the music 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.600 represents It became a logical outgrowth for me as I 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.000 started evolving my career and morphing into the next step. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.439 As you get older, you don't want a babysit rock 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:54.199 artists anymore. I had the good fortune to spend three 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.760 songs with Stevie Wonder that I got to produce and 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.360 arrange music with him with the Symphony Orchardstrap. Very the 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.199 quiet riot very different than when I met you, Bob, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.000 when you were working in Sanctuary, I was producing The 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.000 wasp Ountain, which wind up selling a couple of million 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.000 records back in But I do remember you coming into 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.440 my studio, and boy, little did I know that you 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:21.120 would become probably the most articulate purveyor of pop cultures 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.040 through your writing. So I'm really thrilled to talk to you. Man. Wow, 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.040 I don't know how to respond to that, so I'll 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:32.240 just keep flowing. Okay, many many producers from your era 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:38.280 you have have no more work, and if they're they're 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.720 living on their glory. Then there are people like Tom 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.040 Mormon who did a complete one eighty and ended up 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:48.440 running a B and B. In your particular case, did 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.320 you ultimately see way, there's no future for me in 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.160 this The game changes. I'm getting older and I'm going 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.760 to pivot to this. How conscious was the whole decision? It? 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.160 It was a natural outgrowth. I never worried that I 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.200 would be lacking work. I've been working since I worked 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.280 for Clive Davis, one of his twenty three um. I decided, 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.400 after having two children, I didn't want a babysit rock 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.560 artists anymore, and I didn't want to be in the studio, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.880 so I started supervising music for film before it became fashionable. 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.280 A good friend of mine, Jerry Off say it became 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.760 the head of production at showtime, and if you look 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.480 at my IMDb you'll see fifty five films that I quarterback. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.800 I mixed the scores, I wrote some title songs, and 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.200 that was my gradual evolution. I didn't do it to 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.240 make a living because I did a lot of back 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.640 end deals, because I'm the kind of guy that eats 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.640 what I killed. I don't try and frontload anything. By 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:50.240 the way, I was up in Massachusetts at Rman's place. 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.920 Tom is an old friend of mine. It's wonderful. I 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.599 love the whole, that whole Brookshire's area lot, which is 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.160 pretty cool. But now my conscious thing was logical. In 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.480 two thousand two, I teamed up with the buddy of mine. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.800 We made the first DH one on biographical movie, which 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.640 I put together, and I decided, you know, this is 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:14.000 kind of cool building uh, media out of music, and 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.480 I started doing that way before it became super fashionable. 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.240 I started that as I told you did any cost 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.520 for VH one in two thousand two, and it just 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.920 naturally evolved to do that making a difference in pop 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:34.680 culture using music and media. Now, the music business and 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.360 movie business are different in many ways. Certainly, the budgets 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.600 are lower in music and it's easier to get started. 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:47.080 There are producers who have multiple projects and they're waiting 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.960 for funding for decades. What has been your experience and 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.760 how do you deal with this frustration? I kind of 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.920 feel that I don't pitch. I share, and because I'm 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.880 next to the talent and I get the proprietary rights, uh, 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.280 I p is king and distribution is great and for me, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.800 I don't have a problem making anything that I do 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.160 get out to the World's the question of who's the 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.520 appropriate distributor marketing. I have a great team that worked 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.480 for me, that I believe in, I trust, and we've 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.760 all known each other for one guy does all my 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.520 underscore stuff. I've known for forty years. But if you 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.440 look at my sight, the average longevity of my relationships 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.520 to my team is probably a decade plus. And my 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.640 model also is I pay out of budgets so they 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.680 can go and build their life and do their work 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.360 their own way. But I've got fierce loyalty because maybe 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.000 I'm a decent guy at the end of the day, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:53.080 but I really care about the art. Well, Eddie Kramer 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:58.480 certainly deserves a documentary. Anything else in the pipe yeah part, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.480 you would know all these people who, as you are 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.120 a student of the business of pop culture. My friend 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.280 Del Bryant, who used to be the president of b 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.680 m I, his parents, Police and Buddle O'Brian actually wrote 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.600 all the big Everley Brothers hits. So the doc we're 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.240 going to make his call. That's done. It signed papered. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.480 All I Have to Do Is Dream, which was one 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.800 of the big Everley hits. But when you think of 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.400 the people who covered some of the Bryant songs from 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.400 Paul Simon too, you look at the influence that the 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.400 Everley Harmonies have had on McCarty, Lennon McCartney, etcetera. We're 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.760 going to make a doc called All I Have to 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.120 Do Is Dream, the pioneers of Nashville, and I can 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.280 link a little bit about that because in the sixties, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.920 as you know, New York was a hotbed of new 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.680 acoustic music and there were a lot of renegades there. Well, 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:50.040 the Bryants were the pioneers of bohemians of Nashville before 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.360 it was fashionable, you know, to be cool in Nashville, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.320 which it is today. So they would Devil would be 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:00.520 sitting on his dad's knee when Orbison and the Release 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.640 and Carl Perkins and all these people would come over, 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.880 and we're going to have demos that Della has. This 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.920 is a doc about his parents journey, but we're also 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.000 going to deal with the music. But we're not going 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.480 to do a generic music doc. It's really going to 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.320 be about pioneering music out of a Nashville Anchor will 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.720 bring it forward with some modern covers like I did 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.240 with McLean, But really that's the project of Excited about 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.760 Steven Schwartz wrote Godspell, Pippen, and the current Wicked movie 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.480 which he has written. Stephen is elected for me to 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.480 be his producer and produced the doc on his journey, 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.560 not a Wicked documentary, documentary on the kid who was 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.919 at Carnegie Mellon when he wrote god Steal. Then he 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.159 went and wrote Pippen. Then he had a problem with 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.639 Bob Fosse. Then he started writing music for films. He 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.679 tamed up with Alamanka. That's going to be an interesting story. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.760 We will do that working with God bless his memory. 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.320 Lamont Dozer was one of my dearest friends. We've written 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.520 some songs together when our kids had play dates. My 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.560 younger son Morgan used to date. Is not date could 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.840 go to school with his daughter. So he had written 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.159 the songs that he wrote in the sixties, whether it 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.400 be you know heat wave or standing in the Shadows 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.879 or this same old song. We live that through the 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.800 administration prior to Biden and so are we in a 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.359 heat wave? Is it the same old song? Were we 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.159 hearing the same things? So I've teamed up with a 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.440 director who's a South African, brilliant guy, and we are 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.679 sculpting the story from a South African point of view culturally, 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.320 but from a world point of view because Laumont, after 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.920 he left Motown, he toured South Africa, he toured Nigeria. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.160 We're just going to approach it a little differently than 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.840 the normal person. That which is do a soup to nuts. Hey, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.240 it's a dock on all this hits. Guys had fifty 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.560 one number one songs. But I'm interested in what those 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.520 songs mean to people then and today, as we did 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:11.080 with Lamont, as we did with Don McLean. Okay, going 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.520 back to Dell, who owns his parents songs now? Del 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.600 how Sobriant he and his brother own a So I 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.720 have no licensing issues, I have no sink issues. Everything 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.639 is built in into my partnership with Dell. Great. So 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.959 you're a student of the game yourself. What do you 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.680 think about all these artists selling their catalogs. I'm talking 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.960 about publishing catalog primarily those Springsteen were sold the records too, well, yeah, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.320 we understand, and an opal of years who were in 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.600 the Sanctuary it was kind of next to that. Mark 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.880 I think, Yeah, I think, And funny I've gone back 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.399 and forth with them. I'm proud of how he's built 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.000 what is hip knows his company. I see what the 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.800 big boys are doing, and I think that's really smart 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.399 because if you're Paul Simon, if you're Bob Dylan, and 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.119 you're after seventy years all you can get three four 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.520 five million dollars for your work and still consult on 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.160 it and still have a voice on how the things 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.240 are used and licensed. I think that's actually really smart, 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.160 because songs are the bedrock of the business. Who owns 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.840 all your rights? Me? So you haven't sold anything? No, 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:25.080 Well I did in the past, um because well, these 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:29.159 days I'm owning the i P to my films. I 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.480 used to own the I P to the copyrights on 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.640 the songs that I wrote and the records I produced. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.960 Some of them were owned by the distributors. When I 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.159 got smart, I wound up having j vs after my 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.040 Billy Thorpe experience. If you remember Children of the Sun, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.080 of course I wrote that I produced that with Billy. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.520 It was on Capricorn when they went belly up. I 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.840 didn't get a dime and we sold a million records. Bob. 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:58.879 In y eight I developed laser computer animated laser light shows, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.880 started Planet Arry shows, and I didn't get paid a time. 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.959 I realized I need to control my i P a 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.879 little more, so it evolved. I did go to law school. 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.359 The only thing I learned out of that was that 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.040 I didn't want to be a lawyer. A and B. 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.560 When Clive offered me a job, he could either pick 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.560 up my option as an artist, or take the job. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.040 I took the job, kidding forget. That was the end 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.639 of my recording career. So I've been that guy behind 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.040 the curtain, the frustrated artist, that frustrated guitar player. My 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.199 last who odd guitar? As I played with Ray Parker Jr. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.000 On the Tina Turner asked the Queen album, if you 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.280 look and you google if there were only two guitarists 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.640 me and right. But you know what, when I got 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.200 the chance to work with Jeff Beck with Brian May, 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.280 I said, wait a minute, these are real good guitarists. 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.240 If you see that guitar behind there, I use it 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.040 to strom you know, my hope, my future grandchildren to sleep. 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.600 But I'll tell you man, I'm not as good as 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:56.920 the people have worked with. That's why I defer. Don 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:01.399 McLean is one of the best guitarist show ever meet. Okay, 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:06.280 the Quiet Riot stuff. Yeah, I assumed that Sony owns 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.399 the recordings. Are you still getting revenue from that or 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.880 if you sold the rights to that? Now? I still 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.720 get revenue every quarter and the masters because at the 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:19.280 time I didn't have the Cloud, I had the opportunity. 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.480 Walter Yetnikoff gave me the opportunity, and that's the story 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.119 into itself. Because they all hated that record. I made it. 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.280 I directed the videos with a guy named Mark Rezko, 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.959 who was an out of work commercial Sky and MTV. 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:38.560 Actually Bob Pittman and his team Les Garland helped me 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:40.879 get it on the air. When I put a second 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.240 on my house made the video at cal Arts bypassed 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.840 the label, sent it to EMPTV. They put on the air, 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.359 went through the roof the first bang your Head video. 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:53.280 But I didn't own the masters. I owned the publishing 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:59.920 that I did sell back. Okay, you sold the publishing 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:07.560 just on that. Yeah, what was your motivation? M getting divorced? 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:14.159 That's a good motivation. Absolutely. How many times you've been married? 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.159 While I have the best marriage a human being could have. 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:21.960 I my first marriage was was someone you probably know of, 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:26.080 Trudy Green who and Trudy is still my dear friend. 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.720 After fifty years of friendship, we realized we'd be better 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:33.280