1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always as 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Pardon me, Josh, before we get down. Seriously, 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: I just had a flashback. I used to do the 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: show with Chris Pilette. Anybody who listens to tech Stuff. 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: If you don't, you should will know that he is 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: among the punniest people on the planet. Are you invoking 10 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Pillette and my name in the same sentence? Wow? You 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: you shoot puns like that at me? You get the 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: you get the big guns. Alright, all right, pardon me 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: then before we get to this business, right, I just 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: want to say big welcome to a certain individual. All right, Um, 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: A little girl named um Sophia Milan Harris was born 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: today July h M. She's the daughter of my future 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: brother and sister in law, Josh Harris and Mika Harris. 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: People are probably like, Josh had a baby and didn't 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: even tell us, right, yeah, the other Josh you me 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: and her sister, both with Josh's so is that adorable? 21 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: And I met both of them right at your birthday party? Sure, yeah, yeah, 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: the one I was on a horse. That's awesome. So 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: welcome to the world, Sophia Milan, who's going to be 24 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: called Mila from now on. So thank you very much, 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: Chuck for indulging. Sure, and since you brought it up, 26 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: I should point out that at Josh's birthday party there 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: were a pony, horse, bunnies, and goats. Yeah, it was 28 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: like the farm was brought in for the party and 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: there weren't enough kids there to justify it, so we 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: all know what really was going on. Yeah, you mean 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: was like, you're so spoiled, I'm going to get you 32 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: a pony, and she got me a pony. Of course, 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Emily spent like half the party in the goat create 34 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: so well, they were pretty cute goats. One looked like 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: pure Satanic evil, but the other one was just beyond adorable, 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: little pigmy goat because it was three months old, so 37 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: it was really little and cute. Yes, so baby goats, 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: human babies. So far, it's been like a minute and 39 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: a half and we're already like the cute factors through 40 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: the roof man well, we can take care of that. 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk about pretty much the exact opposite of that, 42 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: shall we, Okay, buddy, I was um disheartened to hear 43 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: that July ten came and went and not a lot 44 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: of people marked it. But this day was the day 45 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: that Um Barack Obama, Mr Change, the president went past 46 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: John Adams presidency or administration neglect of clemency requests. So 47 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: he waited longer than the other president. It is very interesting. Um, 48 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: John Adams went five hundred and thirty six days, and um, 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: I should say, ly tenth is the day that Obama 50 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: tied him. You mean John Adams, the second uh, the 51 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, the first vice president in the United States. Yes, 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: that that same John Adams. Yeah. Um, So anyway, it's 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: it's been several days since then. There's been no action 54 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: taken on any um requests for pardons from Obama, and 55 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, that's kind of weird. Um, 56 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: he's in third place right now to Clinton, M George W. Bush. 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: He's busy, Yeah, but as you'll find out, he really 58 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: doesn't have to do too terribly much. And the other 59 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: thing is what's what's odd is he's not doing anything. 60 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: He's not saying. They're just denying. I'm denying of denying him, right, 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: he's not doing anything with he He inherited a couple 62 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: of thousand requests for clemency um, and he I had 63 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: I think have had a few thousand more come up, um, 64 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: and he hasn't taken any action on any of them. 65 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: It's really puzzling, and it's not very talked about news story. 66 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: But I I I don't have a good answer why 67 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: I haven't been able to find one. I've looked, I 68 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: mean I looked. Well, usually don't hear about clemency much 69 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: till the last part of the president's final term. Not 70 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: necessarily true. And I should say, well, that's when you 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: lest I should say, that's when you really hear about it, 72 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: because that's when they come flying in. Yeah, and they 73 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: come hard and fast, and the real dirty ones come 74 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: up around that, you know. Um, I should say that 75 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: Obama has pardoned two individuals. There are two turkeys. Oh yeah, yeah, 76 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: that he pardoned last Thanksgiving. Um. And seriously, those are 77 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: the only pardons that he's given so far. Who started that? 78 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: Do you have that info? We don't really know. No 79 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: one knows. They think it was a lot of people 80 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: say it was Lincoln, but people have turned up that 81 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: it was actually Harry Truman. But Truman came up with 82 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: the idea. Possibly. I think Lincoln made a joke about it. 83 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: Truman came up with the idea, and I think John F. 84 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: Kennedy was the first to actually ever follow through with interesting, 85 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: that's what I've heard. And I think we talked about 86 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: our Thanksgiving podcast, but I can't remember. So Lincoln made 87 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: a joke about it as he hatcheted off the head 88 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: of a turkey. Yeah, he said he was gonna pardon 89 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: Tad's turkey because mom's so crazy these days. I'm gonna 90 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: gotta do something for the kid. So then he cut 91 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: off the head and said, l O L just kidding, right, 92 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: all right, so let's get down to this show. We 93 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: presidential pardons. And you wrote this and this was an 94 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: awesome article, dude, Thank you. Well. It was one of 95 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: those interesting ones, like the topics just interesting, you know, 96 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: because I mean, you think about it, Chuck. We have 97 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: a government of that consists of checks and balances, right, 98 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: so I mean, well, the way it's set up, you know, 99 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: the the Senate has has final approval on the people 100 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: the president tries to appoint to the Supreme Court. That's 101 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: a check. Um. The Senate can come up with Bill's laws, 102 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: but the President has veto power over him and UM 103 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: with the Supreme Court, you can impeach a Supreme Court. This. 104 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: Did you know that? I did not, um, although it 105 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: was in the article, So I guess I knew it 106 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: at one point in time when I was reminded of it. 107 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: So there's always checks and balances, Um, except the presidential pardon. 108 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: It exists in this weird vacuum side of everything else, 109 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: totally unchecked. You can't do anything about it. Yeah, And I, 110 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: like you pointed out in the article that Congress spends 111 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: a lot of time when all the pardons come flying 112 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: in hard and fast towards the end, just kind of 113 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: like I can't do anything. But I noted that the 114 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: same congressman they want that pardon too, for when they're 115 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: in trouble. You know, there's a lot of disingenuous electioneering 116 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: or politic politicizing, I guess with pardoning. But originally that's 117 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: not what it was intentionally created for. Uh. It has 118 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: become a political tool, right, and as as a result, 119 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: it's really kind of generated this uh, this ire in 120 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: public perception. Um. Pretty famously, Gerald Ford took a hit 121 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: in the public sector, right, Yeah, he pardoned Nixon. Yeah, 122 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: that was not a very popular move. No, um, and 123 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: that was kind of sweeping because he pardoned Nixon before 124 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: any charges were ever formally filed, which is no, no 125 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: technically with pardons, but weird and hinky. Yeah, and he 126 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: he kind of you know, a lot of people thought 127 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: Ford was a dummy president, not not a smart guy. 128 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: Maybe football injury and they said on dating confused. Um, 129 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: But I remember when he died learning that a lot 130 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: of people considered him something of a hero because he 131 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: fell on his sword. He through he gave up the 132 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: presidency to heal the country and just get the Nixon 133 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: era over with by pardnering the guy right and just 134 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: doing it himself, taking the full ire of the American 135 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: public just said forget it, I'm out of here. Right. 136 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: Another big one was Scooter Libby. Right. Yeah. Every president has, 137 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, a slew of pardons, and every president has 138 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: some shady ones where they kind of get their buddies 139 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: out of trouble because when big money's involved in politics, 140 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: there's usually some malfeasants going on. So Scooter Libby was 141 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: pardoned by Bush. Yeah, he was j right right, and 142 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: he was a um well, he was convicted of obstructing 143 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: justice perjury lying to federal investigators. Yeah, exactly, except he 144 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: got really thrown under the bus. But it was for 145 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: the whole Valerie Plane thing, the CIA outing right right, 146 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: supposedly allegedly in retaliation for Plane's husband coming up with 147 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: analysis that saying like Iraq does not have weapons of 148 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: mass instruction, good times. Clinton was also under fire, of course, 149 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: for Mark Rich. Yeah not Mark Rick. Mark, No not, 150 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: you can't. You can't pin anything on Mark Rick. That 151 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: guy's so squeaky clean. Yeah. Mark Rich was the tax 152 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: famous tax evader whose wife x wife left a large 153 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: sum of money to the Clinton Library. And so Bill said, yeah, pardon. 154 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: I was hoping you're going to do that. But one 155 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: thing I thought was interesting was that it was a 156 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: conditional pardon, which we'll talk about. You noticed that as well, Yeah, 157 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: because he agreed basically he went to Switzerland to I 158 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: guess of aid charges initially. Yeah, he pled the country, yeah, 159 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: like Polansky style. And Clinton said, I'll pardon you if 160 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: you agree not to defend yourself against the civil suits 161 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: brought by the United States government. And so he said, yeah, 162 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: that's that's fine, Sure I'll do that. But they were 163 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: pretty substantial. It wasn't just text evasion. I uncovered this 164 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: when I was researching for this podcast. The guy was 165 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: also um indicted for selling or making oil deals with 166 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: Iran during the Iran hostage crisis, and there was a 167 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: full on embargo. Yeah that's light treason, right, Well, that's 168 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: that's the funny thing though, on that fun But he said, sure, 169 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: go ahead and pardon me, and I'll agree not to 170 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: defend myself when I come back to the US. And 171 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, he never came back. Yeah, he's stayed in Switzerland. 172 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: He's like, thanks for the pardon. It's kind of nice here. 173 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: So I think when there's a couple of reasons, the 174 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: Mark Rich case stands out. The Mark Rich pardon stands 175 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: out so much as it seems so it's it's just 176 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: the worst kind of politics when some kind of elitist politician, 177 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: um pardons one of his or her own Yeah, well 178 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: so far one of his own, right, um. And then 179 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: also there were questions about whether Mark Rich bought that pardon, 180 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: whether that that endowment to the Clinton Library was in 181 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: exchange for a pardon. Right, I bought a lot of books. 182 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know. The other interesting thing. You know 183 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: who was lead counsel for Rich William William Kunsler for 184 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: fifteen years. Scooter Libby. Oh wow, he was his lawyer. 185 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: And he defended him and said, oh, he didn't evade 186 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: any taxes. And Clinton used Scooter Libby and said, we 187 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: have a hardcore Republican lawyer that's defending this guy saying 188 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: that he didn't do it. So then it's just funny 189 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: how inbred it all this. I think it's funny that 190 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: people still differentiate between Democrats and Republicans. Yeah, that's a laugh. Um. Also, 191 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: what lastly, this Mark Rich case red hot. It came 192 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: back when Obama was trying to get um Eric Holder 193 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: appointed as his attorney general. Yeah, trying to get him 194 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: past the Senate. That was the big contentious issue. How 195 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: did you sign off on the Mark Rich pardon? It 196 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: was like arguably the worst pardon ever in the history 197 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: of presidents um and he almost didn't get nominated. I 198 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: remember they stretched it out for weeks. Yeah. So anyway, 199 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,719 Speaker 1: let's talk about this and then when we we'll go 200 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: back and talk about some more some more famous and 201 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: not so famous but interesting pardons. That sounds good, Josh, 202 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: Thanks chuckers Man. We are doing this on the fly 203 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: with the record button on what we usually go and 204 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: then talk about it and then edit that part out right. So, Chuck, 205 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: what does a pardon do? Why would Mark Rich even 206 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: be interested in having a pardon like this? Why would 207 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: somebody who's been convicted of a crime, sentenced to prison, 208 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: serve their time, and been out for several years be 209 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: interested in in getting a pardon? What's the point? Well, 210 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: first I would say, what are you kidding? But we'll 211 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: spell it out for you. A pardon, Uh. The main 212 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: thing it does is it gets you out of prison, 213 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: which is awesome. But the really awesome thing that it 214 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: does beyond that is it restores your civil rights as 215 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: a as a you know, free non uh federally incarcerated 216 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: individual or somebody who hasn't being convicted of a felony, 217 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: you know, as a felon, Chuck, you're not allowed to 218 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: own a firearm or right, which is why you couldn't 219 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: vote on Tuesday, um or Jerry Ditty, which is that's 220 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: kind of nice, but right, yeah, that one. I don't 221 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: know if that's it's a disability, but that's what they're 222 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 1: called collectively. When you lose those rights after being convicted 223 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: of a felony and that goes on your record, you 224 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: you lose these rights, and that's called civil disability, right, 225 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: and it restores every bit. It's it's almost like an annulmen. 226 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: It's as if nothing ever happened save for the fact 227 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: that it does stay on your record, right, and the 228 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: records remain that. It took several hundred years for them 229 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: to finally establish that. There's a Supreme Court case and 230 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: I think the nineties that said the records stay. There's 231 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: nice right off the top of your head too, um, 232 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: but there's no they don't have any effect on you 233 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: as a citizen and the longer. But that's just with 234 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: the federal government, and that's not even with all branches 235 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: of the federal government. Basically, the president. When the president 236 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: issues a pardon, the president is daddy of the country 237 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: right then and is saying, on behalf of the rest 238 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: of the American family, We're gonna forgive you for this 239 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: transfer transgression. I'm your dad, I'm everybody else's daddy. I'm 240 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: gonna make the decision and let's just move on passes. Now, 241 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: your brother, the I R S, your uncle, the I 242 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: R S, I should say, is probably still going to 243 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: sue your off your drunk uncle, right, but you are, Um, 244 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: I can't do anything about that. But you broke the laws, 245 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: and we're going to forgive you for breaking the laws. Right. 246 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: Should we talk about other forms of clemency, just so 247 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: everyone's squared away, Yeah, because of pardon. Clemency is the 248 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: umbrella term. Ye, pardon is one type of clemency. That's 249 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: the best point. Yeah, that's what you're gunning for. We 250 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: can we can draw the distinction, though, my friend with 251 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: um pardons, commutes, um remissions and what's the last one? Respite? 252 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: Respite commutation when you commute a sentence, that means you 253 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: just make it shorter, right, that's not used a whole lot. 254 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: You can also commute a sentence before it even starts. Yeah, 255 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: that's weird. That's what happened with Scooter Libby. Yeah, sure 256 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: he got a commutation, but not a pardon. So he's 257 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: a blemished individual as a citizen, but he didn't have 258 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: to go to prisons. He can't vote no, or serve 259 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: on a jury, or own a handgun or own a handgun. 260 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: That's probably a good thing. Um. We already talked about 261 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: the full part in the Granddaddy of them all. There 262 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: is the conditional pardon, which we mentioned, which means, um, 263 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: I will do this for you if and the Clinton 264 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: example was one. Another good one you listed was Jimmy Haffa. 265 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: Nixon pardon Haffa and said, I'll you know, I'll pardon 266 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: you as long as you don't take part in any 267 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: more labor organization, right And he was like, and go 268 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: sleep with the fishes. But that's all I do, right, Yeah, 269 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: And he had to go full on with the mob 270 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: after that. His inevitable course was set. With that agreement 271 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: remission we mentioned that is like when you say you 272 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: don't have to pay a fine, it releases you from 273 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: a legal obligation. Again, but that's just with like the 274 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: the federal government, and it's not necessarily with the I 275 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: r S. The I r S sees you in civil court. 276 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: It's it can't. It can't a civil obligation you owe 277 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: to a family for restitution, they can't. They can't remiss 278 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: that is that right, remiss remit, but you would be remissed. 279 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: Jerry's laughing in there. Respite is basically a temporary thing 280 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: where the president is like, you know what, let me 281 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: hold this off for a month or two while we 282 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: look at it, right, like an execution. Well, isn't that 283 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: a stay or is it the same thing? I don't know. 284 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if a stay of execution is just 285 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: issued by the governor, or if a stay of execution 286 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: is a type of respite because this is only federal cases, 287 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: because the president can't touch state or local cases. Yeah, 288 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: so maybe that's a deaf does Yeah, the Feds. The 289 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: Feds execute people. The president could could keep somebody who 290 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: was sentenced to death through a court martial, they could, 291 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: they could give them respite. It's kind of like, hey, 292 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: here's a nice hot towel. Sit in the corner while 293 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: we figure out whether they we're going to kill you 294 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: or not, and you can you can polose on top 295 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: of each other. If you need more time, you can 296 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: issue them in succession and it's it doesn't interfere with 297 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: the trial or anything like that. Right, So you like 298 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: a lot of these kind of working conjunction like the 299 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: the the booyah combo that you want is the commutation 300 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: of sentence before it even starts, followed by or in 301 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: conjunction with, the full parton or a rest bit maybe 302 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: then the full part. Right. But I mean, if you 303 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: if you love a sense of drama, yeah go you 304 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: can tack the rest fit onto the beginning. I just 305 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: want to keep my butt out of jail. I don't 306 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: care if it's dramatic, right, just give me whatever puts me, 307 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, back on the sidelines or back in the game. Sorry, 308 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: mixing sports metaphors that reminds me of a dream, Chuck 309 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: that I had. Um. I dreamt that I was at 310 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: a breakdancing championship, which I've actually been to you before. Um, 311 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: but I was sitting there like watching like all these 312 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: people break dance, you know, watching it. No, Actually, what 313 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: I figured out was I dreamt that I was watching 314 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: other people breakdance. I don't even have enough of an 315 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: opinion of myself to dream that I, myself is an 316 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: awesome break That's what I about to say, Dude, that 317 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: would be the master champion breakdancer in my dream. Right, 318 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: But you just said that you want to be out 319 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: of jail, so you can get back to the sideline. 320 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: That's what triggered that. Maybe we'll edit that out in post. 321 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: Huh no, so Chuck, what doesn't a pardon do? It 322 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: sounds like it's um basically the hand of God coming down, 323 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: touching you on the head and saying, go buy a 324 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: gun because you can uh one thing it does not 325 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: do and you cannot touch. And they were pretty smart 326 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: back when they wrote the constitution. Um, they made sure 327 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: that a you can impeach a president and be that 328 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: you cannot pardon an impeachment, right. Um. They they actually 329 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: didn't include presidential pardons in a couple of the plans 330 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: for the constitution. The New Jersey Plan and the Virginia 331 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: Plan both lacked presidential pardons, and Alexander Hamilton's was like, 332 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: I think Federal's paper number seventy four. Yes, yeah, Um. 333 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: He argued that there are times when this could really 334 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: come in handy guys, So let's put it in, but 335 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: let's make sure it doesn't apply to impeachment, right, because 336 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: if the president can be impeached and if he can't 337 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: pardon himself while he's being impeached, then he won't become 338 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: this absolute authoritarian. He can't possibly right, So, um, that 339 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: was how it ended up in there. But actually that 340 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: went further back, and we'll talk about that in a minute. 341 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: But they almost left the whole thing out and then 342 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: they said, no, we'll just follow custom. What were you 343 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: going to say it came over from England? Yeah, say 344 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: it man, Well it's actually the whole the whole idea 345 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: is rooted in the prerogative of the king, the English king. Yeah, 346 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: we got a lot of our early ideas clearly since 347 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: we had just uh, you know, come from England. We're 348 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: based on good old England, right, English common law or 349 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: royal law, I guess is what this would be, um, 350 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: And I think that's probably why presidential pardons weren't included 351 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: in a couple of the really popular plans for the Constitution, 352 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: because it was kind of smacked of royal tyranny, right yeah. 353 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: But they Charles, the second, I think, is the one 354 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: who originally thought of the impeachment idea, right, Well, either 355 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: he thought of it and was a fan, or he 356 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: was one of the weaker kings or one of the 357 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: more benevolent kings. Because a parliament that was in session 358 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: while he was reigning managed to slip that onto the 359 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: custom of the prerogative of the English king. So you 360 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: can overturn any court case except cases of impeachment, right, yes, 361 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: which is you know, there's some other ways that the 362 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: courts over the years of sort of shaped. Um. I 363 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: guess you could say limited or defined how you can 364 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: pardon and how you can't. Um like we said, it's 365 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: only federal cases. You can't affect civil civil cases at all, 366 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: and um like we all I mentioned restitution to a family. 367 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: So let's say if O. J. Simpson, in a weird 368 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: alternate world, were convicted of cutting his wife's head off, 369 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: if he had done that, if he had really done that, 370 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: he could not have been he could have been pardoned 371 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: for that. But um it, let's say if the president 372 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: was a big fan of the juice, but he could 373 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: not have been relieved of paying a goldman all that 374 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: money that he lost, Which is weird because he was 375 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: found guilty or not guilty, But what do you call 376 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: it's libel for her death and his son's death in 377 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: a civil suit. Guilty in a court of law, criminally, Yeah, weird, 378 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: so strange how that can happen in this country. Yeah, 379 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: that was a really weird moment in this country's history. 380 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: Huh um, chuck. There's some other ways that the presidential 381 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: pardon has been shaped. Um, you can't force the well, 382 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: you the the idea used to be was that you 383 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: can't force a person to take a parton. That's my 384 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: favorite little nugget in this whole article. Right, So you 385 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: would think like, oh, yeah, here's your partner, especially if 386 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: it's like a commutation of sentence and you get out 387 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: of jail early. Um, not everybody's done with that. Some 388 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: people are what we called institutionalized, can't make it out 389 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: on the outside any longer. Yes, he was institutionalized. He 390 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: couldn't make it, and he hung himself in the little 391 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: halfway house sort of that they set him up with. Right. 392 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: It was one of the sadder moments of the Shaw 393 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: Shank redemption. There was another guy who, um that may 394 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: or may not happen have happened to His story kind 395 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: of ends slightly before that as far as we can tell, 396 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 1: as far as we know, Um, Calvin Coolidge, the cool 397 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: he uh he he gave a pardon to a guy 398 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: who was in jail, and the guy didn't want to leave, 399 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: so he directly ordered the warden to get the guy 400 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: out of prison and shut the cell behind him. Well, 401 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: that was the one caveat you did mention was, Um, 402 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: you can refuse a pardon, but not when it applies 403 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: to cases of life or death. So if you're on 404 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: death row, you don't get a choice if you're pardoned. Yeah. Yeah, 405 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court worked that out as well. They're saying like, no, 406 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: if you if you want to die, we're not going 407 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: to kill you just because you want to die if 408 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: we've decided that you shouldn't die, And what's the deal 409 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: with content of court? I didn't quite get that. Okay, 410 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: So Chuck, this is this is a very very important 411 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: part because this is the one too. I agree. I 412 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: went back and read it, and I think it was 413 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: one of those things where, um, I was just so 414 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: hot and bothered about it, like, oh, yeah, here's the 415 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: crux of my whole article. Yeah right, I um just 416 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of ram past actually explaining it. Well, so let 417 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: me try to do it a little better here. Okay, Um, 418 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: you were saying that if um, the president, if if 419 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: for some reason O. J. Simpson had been convicted of 420 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: his alleged murder of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Coldman, Right, Um, 421 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: and the president had pardoned him, that pardon would have 422 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: had any effect on the civil case against him by 423 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: the Goldman family, by the Brown family. Right. Because murder 424 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: is legally an affront to the United States. It's an 425 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: affront to the laws of the United States. And by 426 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: the way, also this would only only if he had 427 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: been convicted in federal court. Could the president's pardon have 428 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: helped him? Right? Remember that, Um, because the murdered also 429 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: has an effect on this family. We have civil courts, 430 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: there's civil law and criminal law. President can forgive criminal law, 431 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: can't do anything for civil law because pardons only cover 432 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: in affront to the United States. So, at one point 433 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: in time, a guy named William Howard Taft, who is 434 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: Supreme who is the chief Justice of the Supreme Court, 435 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: and after his presidence here it was after he was president, 436 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: eleven years after he left the White House. He said 437 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: he always said like he felt like he fulfilled his 438 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: destiny is Supreme Court justice. He didn't like being president. Yeah, 439 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: but as Supreme Court justice, he helped give a tool 440 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: to Congress. Um by saying that the presidential pardon is 441 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: only to cover affronts to the United States, it doesn't 442 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: cover affronts to a court. Write a contempt of court 443 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: charge sounds like a loophole. That is a loophole, and 444 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: Congress has exploited it because Congress actually has the ability 445 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: to hold people in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify. 446 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: So remember that whole impeachment clause right where it literally 447 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: says in the Constitution you can the president has the 448 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: power to pardon people except in cases of impeachment. Right 449 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: Without that court contempt of court loophole, you'd have another 450 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: loophole where the president could be like, I'm gonna do 451 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: anything I want and Congress can investigate me all at once, 452 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: but none of my people are talking because they can be. 453 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: They can be um arrested and charged and sentenced and 454 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: pardoned and keep their mouth that the whole time. You 455 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: know there's a pardon coming. That doesn't work for contempt 456 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: of court cases because contempt of court or contempt of 457 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: Congress is not technically in affront to the laws of 458 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: the United States. It's in affront to Congress in front 459 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: of the court. So the presidential pardon can't do anything 460 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: about it. So there's the one tool Congress has as 461 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: far as battling the presidential pardon, they can compel witnesses 462 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: to testify, and if they don't, they can they have 463 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: actually a little jail in the Senate and I think 464 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: House chambers where they keep them the person in contempt. 465 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: That's a nice jail. Was that any better? I got it? 466 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: But however, if a president does if it's legitimate, and 467 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: if and if it's legal, and if he does it 468 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: right or she the woman president one day, it is 469 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: completely irrefutable. Yeah, if if they do it right and 470 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: it's on the well we say, on the level, like 471 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: some of those last ones aren't really on the level 472 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: ethically speaking, but they but they're legal, but you can't 473 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: you can't challenge whether they're on the level or not right. 474 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, ground Congress has tried to put 475 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: a stop to this over the years here and there 476 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: they've introduced bills uh to limit um pardon power, but 477 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: they've all failed because of a couple of reasons. Because um, 478 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: it's in the Constitution very clearly, Article two, Section two, 479 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: and Supreme Court like stuffhold the Constitution when they can, 480 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: like to stand behind it when they can. And the 481 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: other reason is it's you know, it's kind of a 482 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: long standing power, and uh, they're not really used to 483 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, they're not hip to getting rid of these 484 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: things that have been around for a couple of hundred years. Right, 485 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: And for everybody who's just opened their email client to 486 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: send us some all these examples of the Supreme Court 487 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: not standing behind the Constitution when they can't, Chuck meant 488 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: specifically standing behind them the pardon power article. That's what 489 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: you meant, right, that's what we're talking about. Okay, Yeah, sorry, 490 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: thanks for pointing that out and stopping the flood of emails. 491 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: And not only that, Chuck, they actually in Supreme Court 492 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: decreed this is a it is spelled out in the Constitution, 493 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: the president's power to pardon. And if you're gonna find 494 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: any flaws in it, you're gonna have to go to 495 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: that like one two sentence section and find your flaws there, 496 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: because it's in the Constitution and you really can't touch 497 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: it outside of the Constitution. Right. So, Chuck, we were 498 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: talking about the origins of this. You know that it 499 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: was found in um the prerogative of the English kings, 500 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: and then you know, they talked about it and finally 501 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: the founders put it in the Constitution, and originally it 502 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: was to give the president the ability to say queil rebellion, 503 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: insurrection and just basically make it deal with people who 504 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: were rising up against the government and saying, look, if 505 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: you guys go back home, we're going to forget all 506 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: this happened. I'll issue a blanket pardon, a k amnesty. 507 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: Very shortly after the constitution was written. Uh. And then 508 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: and I think seventeen sev George Washington said this is awesome. 509 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: There's a whiskey rebellion going on. The farmers are uprising 510 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: because they don't like being tax I'm gonna just forgive 511 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: all you guys if you pipe down because you've been arrested. 512 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: And they said, okay, all right, we'll go back home. 513 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: And that was like right afterward. Yeah, and Jimmy Carter, 514 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: like you said, to heal national wounds, Ford kind of 515 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: pardon Nixon just to wrap that up. Uh. Carter did 516 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: a similar thing to sort of put an end to 517 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: the Vietnam era by pardoning all the draft dodgers, which 518 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people probably didn't like that move very much. Yeah. Either, 519 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: good point. One of my favorites, Josh is when you 520 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: point out that UM pardons a lot of times can 521 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: sort of undermine laws, and that was the case with 522 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: Kennedy in nineteen fifty six, and National Narcotics Act was 523 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: basically a big hard, one of the first big hard 524 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: drug laws where they had mandatory minimums for kind of 525 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: small time offenders. So Kennedy said, you know, it's really 526 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: not fair that these small time offenders, are first time 527 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: offenders are in prison for like five or more years, 528 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: and it's no good. So I'm going to issue a 529 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: blanket pardon for all these guys and gals. And it 530 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: kind of overturned the law in essence. Yeah, and he's 531 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: not the only person to do that. Um, there's calls 532 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: right now for Obama to issue issue blanket pardons to 533 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: people who are convicted under mandatory crack minimums because there's 534 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: such a disparity between UM, mandatory minimums for cocaine, which 535 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: is predominantly or considered a white drug, and crack, which 536 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: is considered a black drug. UM. So if you get 537 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: caught with the same amount of crack and coke same value, UM, 538 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: you go to jail, you know, five times longer for 539 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: crack under these mandatory miniums. He hasn't so far, but 540 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: there's a call for that same use of the presidential 541 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: pardon to use a tool. Um. Warren Harding basically overturned 542 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: the Espionage Act, Right, Yeah, that was was that the 543 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: Tokyo Rose No No Espionage Acts was World War One. Basically, 544 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: if you were talking out against World War one war 545 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: in general, or were a conscientious objector, the federal government 546 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: through you in prison for up to ten years. Right, yes, 547 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: And so you're talking about Eugene dev This guy is 548 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: kind of a hero of mine. He was a Socialist 549 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: Party candidate. Um, what I thought was funny. He was 550 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: a candidate five times in nineteen hundred, oh, four, oh eight, twelve, 551 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: and twenty. So he took off nineteen sixteen. I guess 552 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: to regroup. I wondered if there were like two, if 553 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: there was a candidate or two in there that he 554 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: was like the guys better than me, let him run, 555 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: or if he Yeah, I would have thought after he 556 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,479 Speaker 1: lost four times, he's like, I can't do this again. Well, 557 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: I think he's kind of like the Ralph Nader of 558 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century, the turn of the 559 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Well, he spoke out like you said, UM 560 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: against our involvement in World War One, and he was 561 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: convicted as for treason a speech under the Espionage Act 562 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: and then UM sinence to ten years in Harding said 563 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, Yeah, in the in the federal Pokey. 564 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: He got a million votes from prison. Yeah, and for 565 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: his nineteen campaign, a million votes. Ninety's a lot of votes. 566 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: It was a lot of votes. And he was enough 567 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: of a contender that when UM Mr President Warren G. 568 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: Harding issued a blanket pardon for people under the Espionage Act, 569 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: he invited Eugene Debs to drop by the White House 570 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: to hang out after he got out of the pen. Yeah, 571 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 1: and what Debs say, No, way, no we went. Oh 572 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: he did. Yeah, he had a visit. I'm just kidding, 573 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,959 Speaker 1: uh Ford, Um, I mentioned Tokyo Rose. He pardoned the 574 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: only American woman that was part of the propaganda reading 575 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: of Japanese propaganda reading on radio Tokyo zero hour and 576 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: she was convicted of um was it treason again? And 577 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: years later, years later report or dug up some info 578 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: that was kind of like this is a trumped up 579 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: charge and this isn't really right. So Ford said, pardoned. Yeah, 580 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: her story is pretty interesting in and of itself. Oh yeah, 581 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: the whole tokeyo roast thing is. I think Patty Hurst 582 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: she got a pardon. I love Patty Hirst. She got 583 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: We talked about her, I think in the Brainwashing podcast. 584 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: Remember when I took you into a preppy Yeah. Um. 585 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: She was kidnapped and allegedly forced to commit bank robberies 586 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: with the Symbionese Liberation Army, who also made an appearance 587 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: by the way, for you stuff you should know fact 588 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: finders in the swap podcast. What sl did? Yeah, remember 589 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: they got in the shootout with the first SWAT teamer. 590 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: They were one of the reasons the SWAT team came up. Yeah. Anyway, 591 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: well we should point out who she was, just for 592 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: those of you don't know. She was the granddaughter of 593 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: a newspaper magnet, William Randolph Hurst, which is what Citizen 594 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: Kane was. He was based on him. Citizen Kane and 595 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: um Elvin and the Chipmunks, the squeak Will that was 596 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: based on Hurst too. It was. It was basically remake 597 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: as this in Kane. I had no idea, So yeah, 598 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: Hurst was. She's like, oh, they brainwashed me and made me. Uh, 599 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: they kidnapped me and brainwashing made me Rob Banks and 600 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: so they said, and no, I don't think so, you're 601 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: you're convicted. Um, just in in prison for seven years 602 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: and Jimmy Carter stepped in and commuted it. And then 603 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: later on he asked Billy Billy Boy to give her 604 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: the full part in what she did, and then she went. 605 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: She was in every John Waters movie ever made. I 606 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: think since then, I've not seen a one she I 607 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: think she was in cry Baby to begin with, and 608 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: she's been in everyone since then, including his upcoming film, 609 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: What is It? Fruitcake? Is this next one he has 610 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: the best? He said, it's a Christmas a Christmas movie 611 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: fruit Cake? I've never seen. We've never seen a movie. 612 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: I like John Waters. He's cool. You know what you 613 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: should see? I guess if you have never seen one. 614 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: I wouldn't start you off with the early like really 615 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: nasty ones. I actually made her It's perfect for you, Flamingos. 616 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: I would think, right, get pink flamingos and watch Divine 617 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: eat poop. For for the love of God, I would say, 618 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: sereal mom. Another one with Kathleen Turner before she was 619 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,919 Speaker 1: a man. I thought that was probably during the man transition. 620 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: The mansition, Perhaps, Josh, I want to talk about Arthur 621 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: O'Brien just for a second. He's my favorite one because 622 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: President Abraham Lincoln pardoned him from a charge of beast reality, 623 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: attempted beast reality. Do you know what he was actually 624 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: trying to do with what animal? I think I did 625 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: when I wrote this, but I don't anymore. Not important. 626 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: Let's just call it beast reality. But Lincoln said, you 627 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: know what, he's a really good guy otherwise, and he's 628 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: led a really good life, and he was really hammered 629 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: when it happened. So I'm just gonna go ahead and 630 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: pardon that. Yeah, and he did. Arthur O'Brien is now 631 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: a unbesmirched beast list zoo phillist, zoo phillist. I think, so, Chuck, 632 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: Actually that Arthur O'Brien cases a really exemplary of the 633 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: kind of thinking that goes into a presidential partner is 634 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: supposed to write. Um. Lincoln said, Hey, the guy was drunk. 635 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 1: He's live an exemplary life, Um, And he is. He's 636 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: just he's he made a mistake when he was doing 637 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: that with that animal, right, and he knows that clearly. 638 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: He hasn't tried to get with an animal since so 639 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to pardon him. Uh. In eighteen nine, the 640 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 1: d o J said, you know what, the president needs 641 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: help with this kind of stuff. So, um, we're we're 642 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: going to take on this power. Our Congress said, d 643 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: o J. Take on this power in the Office of 644 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 1: the Pardon Attorney was created. Yeah, and he's basically I say, 645 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: I keep saying he. I feel like I should say 646 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: she because I don't know if we've had a female 647 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: partner attorney. But they are generally they're completely in charge 648 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: of handling the thousands of request that office is. So 649 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: what they do is they do the same thing as 650 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: they did way back with Lincoln. They dig around the case, 651 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: they find out the circumstances of the case, whether or 652 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: not they've made restitution and led a really good life 653 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: and maybe they've left prison, or maybe they'd work with 654 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: kids and have done really great things. And then they 655 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: are the ones who make the recommendation to the president. 656 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,479 Speaker 1: But the president, I mean, if they're smart, they'll listen 657 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 1: to what they say because they've done all the legwork. 658 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: But the president doesn't have to know follow the advice. 659 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: And actually the the apparently the d o j or 660 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: the Partner Attorney's office said, Um, you probably shouldn't pardon 661 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 1: Mark Rich he doesn't really fit the criteria, and Clinton went, 662 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: that's going around, right, Should we close with some stats? Yeah, 663 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: let's do it. We can't talk about pardons without just 664 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: throwing out who has done what. So we're gonna go 665 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: ahead and say that the all time granddaddy of pardons 666 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 1: was was Roosevelt, not americally, well, numerically Franklin three terms. Yeah, 667 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: but there were what like over three thousand pardons there were, 668 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: and it's a lot of pardons. But that's I think, 669 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: um of the partners that come across his desk he 670 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: signed off on. Truman led the way with percentage wise 671 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:16,479 Speaker 1: right forty something, and um, James Garfield and William Henry 672 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: Harrison of course had no pardons because they weren't in 673 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: office very long. No, U W H. H. Died of 674 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: pneumonia after a month. I'm William Wait, here's William Henry Harrison. 675 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: I died in thirty days. Uh, Jimmy. Recently, let's just 676 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 1: go over the recent ones. Carter issued five six six, 677 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: Reagan issued four oh six. Oh, Billy Clinton did for 678 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 1: fifty six and then the Bush Boys came along and 679 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: Um Bush Senior, Herbert Walker only seventy seven, and George W. 680 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: Can I'm sorry, pardoned right? And m Herbert Walker pardon seven? 681 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: You said one of them was Caspar Weinberger, who is 682 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: the Defense secretary in the ir On Contra affair. That 683 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: was his big controversial When everyone has at least one, sure, 684 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: why not? It's on your way out anyway, Yeah, wacky commanders, 685 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: you're going to work for Goldman Sacks afterward. Anyway, you 686 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: might as well as who cares? So I guess that's it, right. Yeah. 687 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: If you want to see some funny pictures of old 688 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: timey presidents or George W. Bush partnering a turkey, you 689 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: should probably look up presidential pardons in the search bar 690 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: at how stuff Works dot com. All right, so Chuck, 691 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: then what are we going to do then? Right now? 692 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: A couple of little orders of business, A little pitch 693 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: and thank you. So we need a new sound. It's 694 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: time for pitch, all right. I have no idea what 695 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 1: that sound was, uh, Josh, we are having We are 696 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: recreating our awesome all star trivia night that we did 697 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: in New York, right here in our hometown of Atlanta, Georgia, 698 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: and uh, we have not got a location yet and 699 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: we are not positive on a date, but it's looking 700 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,720 Speaker 1: like it might be the first weekend Timber the weekend 701 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: of dragon Con, which is a Labor day, Labor Day weekend, 702 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: we're looking at that Friday, September three. Don't hold us 703 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: to that, but we are having an all star trivia 704 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,479 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. It will probably be the weekend of dragon Con. 705 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: So we're gonna say most likely. I don't know about 706 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: the Friday or whatever. I think it's probably going to 707 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: be that weekend. I don't see why we wouldn't. Why 708 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't we exactly let's do it. So once again we're 709 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: putting a call out to people that have venues that 710 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: might be interested in hosting UM Suggestions trivia guys. Sure, yeah, 711 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: whatever you got. And we also want to say thank 712 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: you quickly to Mark Rhodes. Mark Rhodes is a big 713 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: fan and he's been helping us troubleshoot this OS for 714 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: iPhone update issue that we've been having where people cannot 715 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: download directly to their phone and Mark has been a 716 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: big help. So thank you Mark for that. And I 717 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: want to say thank you to Tom Rhodes, the stand 718 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,439 Speaker 1: up comedian who was huge in the nineties whose act 719 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: I caught at the Gotham Nightclub. The Gotham Comedy Club 720 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: is what it was. He was hilarious. So thank you 721 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: to Mark Rhodes and Tom Rhodes, and thanks to Dusty Rhodes. 722 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah for just such a great wrestler exactly. Uh, we 723 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: have another Rhodes chuck. Uh, Lieutenant Rhodes who's in a 724 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: rock right now? Yeah? Sure, yeah, we haven't heard from 725 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: me in a while. No, so hey, send in an email, 726 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: will you, Lieutenant Rhodes, and let us know you're doing 727 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: all right? Uh? If you know Rhods that we should 728 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: be thanking, let us know. Maybe we'll thank them. There's 729 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: roads all over the place. Apparently you can wrap it 730 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: up spanking on the bottom and send it to stuff 731 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com for more on 732 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff 733 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: works dot com. Want more House stuff Works, check out 734 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page. 735 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 736 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: It's ready, are you