1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hi, We're on vacation, but we have an amazing special 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: episode for you. In the last year, we set out 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: to ask some questions to the smartest people in their 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: fields about what Democrats should do when they regain power. 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: We hope you'll enjoy this special episode of Project twenty 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: twenty nine, a Reimagining. Hello and welcome to Part three 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: of our new docu series, Project twenty twenty nine of Reimagining. 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm Molly john Fast, a columnist, podcaster, are and person 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: you occasionally see on Gable News. In this series, we're 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: trying to start a conversation about where the Democratic Party 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: goes when it regains power. The hope is that there 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: will be an agenda that puts people first and creates 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: incentives for many of the voters Democrats have lost to 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: come back to the party. In this episode, we're going 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: to discuss reproductive rights and how when Democrats regain power, 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: we can work to make sure those rights are codified. 17 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: We've assembled some of the smartest people we know to 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: explain to us how we can begin to protect, to codify, 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: and help change our legislation so we never have to 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: fight for these rights again. But first, it's easy to 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: forget just all the ways these rights are being attacked. 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: So let's walk through where we are at this very 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: moment in America today. First, we'll hear from Mary Ziegler 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: about the overturning of Roe v. Wade. 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 2: Probably the most significant thing that's happened in recent years 26 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: is that the Supreme Court overturned Rob Wade, which opened 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: the door to a bunch of other legal changes that 28 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: are really unprecedented. Right, So, we've seen criminal abortion laws 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: that are much more stringent than anything that was on 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: the books in the nineteenth century. We've seen those laws 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: interpreted in ways that preclude physicians from intervening in miscarriages 32 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: and stillbirths, not just in situations where people are seeking abortions. 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: And we've seen that those laws can have unintended consequences 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 2: for people at the end end of life too, people 35 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: who whose advanced directives don't address pregnancy, or who don't 36 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: have an advanced directives at all. So I think one 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: of the things we've seen is that what seems to 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: be changes just about abortion, which are significant enough in 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: their own right, are spilling over into lots of areas 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: involving people's lives, whether that's birth control or IVF on 41 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: the one hand, or certainly people with wanted pregnancies having 42 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: pregnancy complications on the other. 43 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: Now we'll hear from Nancy north Up about Texas's impact 44 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: on abortion laws. 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 3: So you both have the flat out criminal laws that 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 3: make abortion of crime, aiding a betting abortion of crime. 47 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 3: You know, Texas has been the innovator on this, for 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: lack of a better word, that allows these bounty hunting 49 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: lawsuits where or dary individuals can sue someone because they 50 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 3: have provided an abortion aided and bed providing an abortion. 51 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: They've just passed a law about going after the manufacturers 52 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 3: and the shippers of medication abortion, which has been a 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 3: lifeline in post row America. So it's everything from the 54 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: state prosecuting to giving individuals the power to become sort 55 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: of their own vigilante attorneys general to go after people 56 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: who again might be a friend helping someone go out 57 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: of state. I mean, we have represented individuals in the 58 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: state of Texas where an abusive boyfriend has sued the 59 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: friends and family of a woman in one case who 60 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 3: left the state of Texas to have an abortion another 61 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: state that's perfectly legal to do, but he brought this 62 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 3: lawsuit against them. We represent another woman. She found out 63 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: when she was driving around that a million dollar lawsuit 64 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: had been followed against her for allegedly helping a friend 65 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: secure medication abortion in the state of Texas. 66 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: And all of this madness started with SB eight. Mary 67 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: Ziegler will explain what SB eight was designed to do. 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: So SBA was passed in twenty twenty one, and at 69 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: the time, it was mostly designed to circumvent row. So 70 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: the idea was that instead of the government enforcing criminal 71 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: abortion laws, that enforcement would be outsourced to private citizens 72 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: who could sue anyone who performed an abortion for at 73 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: least ten thousand dollars, regardless of whether that person had 74 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: any connection to the abortion. So this was designed to 75 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: scare abortion providers to stop offering services. It was designed 76 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: to kind of incentivize a group of bounty hunters to 77 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: go after them, and it legally meant that some of 78 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: the constitutional roadblocks that could be in place if the 79 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 2: government was enforcing these laws would go away. And of 80 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 2: course SBA stopped mattering as much when Roe came down 81 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: because Texas could enforce lots of other criminal bands, but 82 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: it still mattered in lots of other ways, because we've 83 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: seen that sometimes politicians hesitate to enforce the most stringent 84 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: bands because they know that doing so will be politically unpopular. 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: Here's Nancy northup on how medication abortion could be banned. 86 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 3: Medication abortion, which is a two pill regime that has 87 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 3: been on the market, approved by the FDA for twenty 88 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 3: five years as safe and effective determinative pregnancy in the 89 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: early period of pregnancy. This has been the case is 90 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 3: ten thousand women are getting abortion pills in states where 91 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 3: there's a ban. So of course it's in the sight 92 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: line of those who want to ban abortion entirely, and 93 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: they're different ways that they're going about this. Texas just 94 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 3: passed a law that goes into effect December fourth, h 95 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: House Bill seven, which says that vigilantes can come and 96 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 3: sue manufacturers people who are mailing medication abortion to try 97 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 3: to stop it. Second, you know, the Trump administration has 98 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: asked the FDA to take another look at the approval 99 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 3: of medication abortion. Now, this is something that should be 100 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 3: a determination on the science, on the facts, as it 101 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: has been for twenty five years, but they are seeking 102 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 3: to get a reversal from the Agency of the approval 103 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: of medication abode because then it would not only cut 104 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: off medication abortion states where it's band, but it would 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: cut off medication abortion. It stays where it's legal across 106 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: the United States. 107 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: And this, of course means every woman, whether seeking an 108 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: abortion or not, can feel the implications of these overreaching laws. 109 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: Kelly Badden explains how this puts women at risk. 110 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 4: What this means is that every woman's pregnancy is suspect 111 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: and every woman's reproductive health is at risk. We are 112 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 4: seeing that with people who are pregnant and want to 113 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: continue their pregnancies but face a healthcare issue or healthcare crisis, 114 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 4: who can't get the care that they need. We've seen 115 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 4: that in Texas and Florida and Georgia. We've unfortunately seen 116 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 4: the tragic deaths of several women, some of whom were 117 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: not seeking abortion care. They were seeking help with their 118 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 4: pregnancies that they wanted. And I think that is the 119 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 4: unfortunate reality of abortion bands, is that doctors and hospital 120 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 4: systems feel scared to provide necessary care because the state 121 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,239 Speaker 4: law could essentially criminalize them for doing so. It puts 122 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 4: every woman in every person's health at risk. 123 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: This is Jessica Vlendi, who writes the definitive sub stack 124 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: on women's health abortion every day. She has tirelessly chronicled 125 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: these attacks on women's health. 126 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 5: Women are dying, women are going septic, The maternal mortality 127 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 5: rate is going up, the infant mortality rate is going up, 128 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 5: the sepsis rate is going up. Right, like all of 129 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 5: these things that we could sort of expect. Then there 130 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 5: are the ripple effects of bands where you have obgins 131 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 5: leaving anti abortion states. As a result of that, maternity 132 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 5: wards are shuttering. As a result of maternity wards shuttering, 133 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 5: there are these huge maternal health deserts across the country, right, 134 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 5: and so there's sort of like the medical piece that's happening. 135 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 5: What is pos I will say, and this is the 136 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 5: thing that they're trying to attack the most. It should 137 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 5: go without saying, But it doesn't that there isn't a 138 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 5: fetal heartbeat when these bands are our limiting abortion, right, 139 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 5: when Republicans pass a heartbeat law, it's generally at around 140 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 5: six weeks of pregnancy. There is no heartbeat then, because 141 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 5: there is no heart formed yet. And so this it 142 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 5: really is just again a fake science thing to try 143 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 5: to ban abortion as early as possible. Most people are 144 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 5: not going to know that they're pregnant at six weeks. 145 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 5: And I think it's part of this broader effort by 146 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 5: Republicans to seem medically credible, to seem scientifically credible, because 147 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 5: they can't just say, oh, we just don't want you 148 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 5: having a but right, or this is religious or this 149 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 5: is ideological, because they know how incredibly incredibly unpopular it is. 150 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 5: That's the same reason they're doing We're just concerned about 151 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 5: women's health, We're just concerned about coercion, we're just concerned 152 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 5: about clean water. They can't say they actually want because 153 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 5: no one agrees with them, and I mean no one, 154 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 5: not even in red states, even in the reddest states 155 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 5: and the states that are considered the most anti abortion, 156 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 5: people still don't want these laws, right like they still 157 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 5: want to repeal abortion bands. Republicans still want to repeal 158 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 5: abortion bands. There's no overseating how unpopular these laws are. 159 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 5: I think they may be the most unpopular laws on 160 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 5: the books in America. And again, this is part of 161 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 5: why I do the newsletter too, because there is this 162 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 5: real issue with a lot of lefty mail pundits and 163 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 5: you know, experts who want to say that we need 164 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 5: to compromise on abortion, and that's how we're going to 165 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 5: win red states, and that's where we're gonna, you know, 166 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 5: meet in the middle somehow. And it's so far removed 167 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 5: from the reality of this issue that I'm just I'm 168 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 5: desperate to be like constantly reiterated this so that people 169 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 5: understand how popular this issue is for Democrats. I think 170 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 5: one of the best examples of that is the rise 171 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 5: of what conservatives call equal protection bills, which basically claim 172 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 5: they're a fetal personhood push, basically claim that fetus' embryos, 173 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 5: fertilized eggs have equal protection rights under the fourteenth Amendment 174 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 5: of the Constitution. And we've seen over a dozen states 175 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 5: introduced bills that would state that and would make having 176 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 5: an abortion would punish the abortion patient as a murderer, 177 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 5: and in a lot of these states that could mean 178 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 5: the death penalty. A couple of years ago, Republicans would say, 179 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 5: you know, the legislators said, oh, these are just a 180 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 5: couple of outliers, These are a couple of extremists. No 181 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 5: one is taking these bills seriously. Guess what we're seeing 182 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 5: more of the bills introduced. We're seeing the bills get 183 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 5: more co sponsors. Just a couple of weeks ago, South 184 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 5: Carolina had multiple hearings on one of these bills. This 185 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 5: is a real thing, and it really concerns me that 186 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 5: the mainstream media in particular, because they know that these 187 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 5: bills are not going to pass right now, they sort 188 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 5: of tend to ignore them, right or they treat them 189 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 5: as if, well, you know, again, these are extreme, this 190 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 5: is radical, This is not going to go anywhere. That's 191 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 5: not true. We see it increasing. I think it was 192 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 5: a few months ago after Kentucky introduced one of these bills, 193 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 5: the Courier Journal in Kentucky, like the largest most circulated 194 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 5: newspaper in Kentucky, ran an op ed by one of 195 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 5: these guys who pushes equal protection bills. They call themselves 196 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 5: abortion abolitionists. They ran an op ed by him where 197 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 5: he's defending this, and it's like, how is it possible 198 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 5: that we've gotten to the point where a state's you know, 199 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 5: paper of record is seriously talking about whether or not 200 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 5: to give them in the death penalty for abortion. The 201 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 5: other thing, in addition to the equal protection is the 202 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 5: attacks on travel right we've seen multiple states, and attacks 203 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 5: on speech. We've seen multiple states like Idaho and Tennessee 204 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 5: pass what they call anti trafficking anti abortion trafficking laws 205 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 5: that they claim are to help miners who might being abused. 206 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 5: It says you can't take a minor out of state 207 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 5: without a parental permission for an abortion, which on its 208 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 5: face sounds like okay, like that sounds reasonable. The laws 209 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 5: are written, and they, I should say, they are in 210 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 5: court in some sections of this have been blocked. But 211 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 5: the way that they're written, it basically says helping a 212 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 5: teenager get an abortion in any way, not just helping 213 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 5: them leave the state, driving them to the post office 214 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 5: to pick up abortion pills, texting them the URL to 215 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 5: a clinic could be a felony, right, And then you 216 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 5: have I forget how many counties it is, but it's 217 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 5: like over a dozen counties in Texas that have passed 218 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 5: anti trafficking ordinances not just directed at miners, but of 219 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 5: women of all ages, so that it's illegal to help 220 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 5: someone leave the state in these counties. And so you're 221 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 5: talking about literally restricting adult women's right to travel. We're 222 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 5: not hearing about it, right, Like if there were dozens 223 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 5: of counties doing this, dementsing men can't leave the state, 224 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 5: or you can be sued if you help a woman 225 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 5: leave the state. You would hear about it every day. 226 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: And while many anti choice activists believe that you can 227 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: ban abortion and still protect pregnant women from the downstream 228 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: effects of banning abortion, we know that in reality that 229 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: doesn't work. Nancy Northope points out the difficulty in having 230 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: exceptions when it comes to abortion bands. 231 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 3: What people aren't seeing because although it gets coverage to 232 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 3: some extent in the press, it doesn't get covered a lot. 233 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 3: Is how impossible it is to craft exceptions to abortion 234 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 3: bands for health risks. It is impossible. You cannot list 235 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 3: the conditions, and part of it's impossible because the way 236 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: healthcare is normally practice, you make a decision for yourself 237 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: about benefits and risks. 238 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: Mary Ziegler discusses the unintended consequences of criminalizing abortions. 239 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that one of the things we've 240 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: seen since Rose overturned is that movements to criminalize abortion 241 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: are having a lot of unintended consequences. So we've seen 242 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: that doctors and hospitals and lawmakers don't know what abortion means, right. 243 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: So if you have someone coming in suffering from pre eclemsia, 244 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: or someone who's had a miscarriage, and there may still 245 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: be fetal cardiac activity, but a pregnancy is fundamentally ended. 246 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: We've seen doctors saying, sorry, you know, your wife may die, 247 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: but we can't intervene yet because if we intervene, that'll 248 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: be an abortion, and that will be committing a felony 249 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: and we'll go to jail for a decade or more. 250 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: And so we've seen a lot of people who are 251 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: not a worshion seekers right, people who are just have 252 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: wanted pregnancies, who are having medical emergencies be turned away. 253 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: We've seen hospitals, sometimes the Associated Press reporting that some 254 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: emergency rooms don't want to treat pregnant patients at all 255 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: because they're afraid of the legal complications. We've seen patients 256 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: and end of life scenarios who are diagnosed with essentially 257 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: brain death have their families be unable to decide whether 258 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: they should remain on life support during a pregnancy because 259 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: doctors and lawmakers interpret the law to say that that 260 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: would be an abortion. And we've seen IVF families, some 261 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: of whom view their own embryos as their children, be 262 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: told that as an unintended consequence of some of these changes, 263 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: they no longer have access to IVF. 264 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: It's not just that the right refuses to carve out 265 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: protections for pregnant women. It's more than that they have 266 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: declared war on birth control. And this war on birth 267 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: control has spilled out into one of the greatest technological 268 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,239 Speaker 1: achievements for having more children IVF. 269 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: IVF wasn't a culture were issue until recently, if you 270 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: think about it, and it's become one. I think because 271 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: of the overruling of Row. That was pretty obvious in 272 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: February twenty twenty four when the Alabama Supreme Court held 273 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: that the state's wrongful death law, which allows you to 274 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: bring certain lawsuits, applied to IVF embryos, and that had 275 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: the effect of basically entirely stopping IVF in the state 276 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: until lawmakers passed a statute essentially not denying that IVF 277 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: embryos were people, but allowing IVF to go forward. But 278 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: that wasn't the end of it. We've seen people in 279 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: the anti abortion movement continuing to push to limit IVF 280 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: and promoting what they call a more effective alternative to IVF. 281 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: They call restorative reproductive medicine. So we've started to see 282 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: states in the South promoting this idea as an alternative 283 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: to IVF. And what restorative reproductive medicine is, just for context, 284 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: is essentially a lot of the treatments that you would 285 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: get for infertility that stopped short of IVF. They focus 286 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: almost entirely on female infertility, and they often end up 287 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 2: being ineffective for people who would need IVF, for people 288 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: dealing with male factor infertility, and they can be used 289 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: by people whose clock is running out as far as 290 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 2: the efficacy of IVF is concerned. So we're seeing an 291 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 2: ongoing effort to restrict IVF and also to fund and 292 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: promote an alternative that may not work as well for 293 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 2: people experiencing infertility. 294 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: And what you see over and over again is these 295 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: laws sweep up people who aren't even having abortions. This 296 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: case is a prime example. Jessica Valenti explains how the 297 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: right wants to control women's pregnancies and how they're failing 298 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: at it. 299 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 5: Should a miscarriage and like most people, do you put 300 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 5: your miscarriage remains in the trash? What else are you 301 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 5: supposed to do with them? And so she was arrested 302 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 5: for that. There was a woman in Texas who spent 303 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 5: five months in jail after she miscarried in a public 304 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 5: bathroom because they didn't like that she flushed it. I 305 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 5: have taken, like internally to calling them like ick laws, 306 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 5: because all of these it's like the ick factor. All 307 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 5: of these mostly male cops and prosecutors have no idea 308 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 5: what pregnancy laws really looks like. They get icked out 309 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 5: when they see blood, right, and they're desperate to punish people, 310 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 5: and so it really is this like loophole. It's this 311 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 5: way around the prohibition on arresting abortion patients. They figure 312 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 5: out different seemingly unrelated charges to bring against women. 313 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: And crisis pregnancy centers are the right answer to much 314 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: of this, and we all know those do nothing but 315 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: fail women's health needs. 316 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 5: That like crisis pregnancy centers really are central to Republicans 317 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 5: plan for all of this. That you know, CPCs are 318 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 5: their enforcement arm. They are trying to sort of give 319 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 5: CPCs this super immunity from state regulation, so that trying 320 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 5: to regulate them at all, trying to say hey, you 321 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 5: can't lide away, you can't put out this nonsense is 322 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 5: considered a First Amendment violation and so they're really it's 323 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 5: not just that they're using these groups to funnel, you know, 324 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 5: millions of taxpayer dollars into into religious organizations, but they 325 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 5: are emboldening and empowering these organizations, which they say are 326 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 5: good to replace all the planned parenthood clinics that their 327 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 5: policies are shuddering, right, So they are saying, yeah, they're 328 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 5: they're the they're the opposite, and they don't they're not 329 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 5: real healthcare clinics. Like that's how little they think about 330 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 5: our health. They're saying, we're going to give million dollars, 331 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 5: like millions and millions of dollars to these groups that 332 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 5: don't have doctors on staff for the most part. Sometimes 333 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 5: they have like a medical director that'll come in once 334 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 5: or twice a month, and usually they're like a retired urologist. 335 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 5: It's just absurd. They're not real. But they're trying to 336 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 5: paint this picture of CPCs as a reasonable replacement for 337 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 5: planned parenthood clinics. And one of the primary reasons they're 338 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 5: doing that is to enact in informal ban on birth 339 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 5: control right. They don't want to come out and say 340 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 5: birth control is illegal. They don't want to. They don't 341 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 5: want that heat. They don't want that backlash. But if 342 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 5: they can get rid of every single credible reproductive health 343 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 5: clinic in a state and replace it with a crisis 344 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 5: pregnancy center that one can't prescribe birth control because there's 345 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 5: no doctors there, and two won't and the only way 346 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 5: that they'll talk about it is to say that it'll 347 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 5: give you cancer or it'll kill you. There, you have 348 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 5: like a ban on birth control without ever having to 349 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 5: write it in the books. 350 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: And what is very striking is that the abortion rate 351 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: has actually not gone down despite all the obstacles and 352 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: work the right wing has put into trying to make 353 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: it harder to get an abortion. 354 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 5: So what is positive is that the abortion rate hasn't 355 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 5: gone down. Right, These laws have been shockingly ineffective at 356 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 5: reducing the abortion rate. The only thing that they have 357 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 5: done is increased suffering, increased death. Right Like, they're not 358 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 5: reducing the abortion rate, and that's in large part because 359 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 5: of abortion medication and telehealth. Right now, I think it's 360 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 5: about one and four. The last study showed one in 361 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 5: four abortions in America are provided via telehealth. And so 362 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 5: you have all of these women in red states getting 363 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 5: abortion pills shipped to them from doctors and shield states. 364 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 5: Anti abortion people are really really pissed about that, and 365 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 5: so the vast majority of attacks that we're seeing right now, 366 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 5: the attacks that we're seeing this year especially are on 367 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 5: abortion pills. That is what they are most desperate to 368 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 5: do away with with telehealth specifically, and some. 369 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: Blue states have already enacted shield laws. Let's hear from 370 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: Kelly Badden about what these shield laws do. 371 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 4: Abortion shield laws are policies that states enact that aim 372 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 4: to in some way protect abortion providers in that state 373 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 4: from being able to provide care to those who live 374 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 4: in other states. So essentially protecting an abortion provider in 375 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 4: your state from any charges from a state that bands 376 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 4: abortion and might want to go after you. About twenty 377 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 4: two states have some kind of shield law on the 378 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 4: books in some way, but eight states have a really 379 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 4: important component, which is this extension of the shield law 380 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 4: protections to telehealth provision. So that's what really allows a 381 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 4: provider in a protective state to treat a patient in 382 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 4: another state via telehealth and get them the medication that 383 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 4: they need to have the abortion care that they need. 384 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 4: So incredibly important, huge innovation lots for states to continue 385 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 4: enacting them and also continue strengthening them, because the legal 386 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 4: developments on these change almost every week, week to week, 387 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 4: month to month, and so it's really important for states 388 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 4: to know that none of these laws are one and done. 389 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 4: You can't just pass one shield law or pass the 390 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 4: right to abortion and call it a day. You have 391 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 4: to keep abreast of what the attacks are and keep 392 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 4: finding ways in your state to respond to them and 393 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 4: to protect abortion in provision. 394 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: But the goal here is to protect women's reproductive rights 395 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: so that there isn't a cycle of losing and gaining right. 396 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: Mary Ziegler points out that voters don't want things like 397 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: fetal personhood. 398 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: The kind of endgame for the anti abortion movement is 399 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: fetal personhood, the idea that you know from the moment 400 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: of fertilization their constitutional rights, and they think that would 401 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: be a path to a national abortion band through the 402 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 2: judiciary that would also apply to things like IVF. It 403 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: turns out, unsurprisingly that strong majorities of voters don't want this, 404 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: and that they could put some effective pressure on state 405 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: judges and even federal judges and Republican politicians not to 406 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: embrace this. But normal people don't know that that's what 407 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 2: this is. 408 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: Right. 409 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 2: It's like the life begins at conception thing. If you 410 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: say to an average voter, when do you think life begins? 411 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 2: Some of them who are not opposed to may well 412 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 2: say conception, right. I mean it doesn't follow. All this 413 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 2: other stuff doesn't follow from that. So I think if 414 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: people want to make a difference sun reproductive rights, in 415 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 2: addition to voting, in addition to campaigning, in addition to 416 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 2: donating to organizations that are either litigating this or helping 417 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: people access services, there's also just telling your neighbors what 418 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: this actually is and is not right to say to people. 419 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: The issue here is not that when you see an 420 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: ultrasound from your friend who's excited to be pregnant, that 421 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: you think that's a baby. The issue is do you 422 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: want people who do these things to go to jail? 423 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: Because that's what we're talking about. It's not about do 424 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 2: you value life or do you not value life? Or 425 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 2: do you value this life more than the pregnant person's life. 426 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 2: It's essentially putting women and pregnant people back in the 427 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: picture and seeing what we're doing is criminalizing some of 428 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 2: these people. We're not actually helping anyone by doing that, 429 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: we're just creating a bigger carcial state. 430 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Northup emphasizes the importance of passing comprehensive legislation when 431 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: it comes to reproductive rights. 432 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: When there is a majority in the Congress that supports 433 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 3: abortion rights and a president who will sign that legislation, 434 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: that Congress needs to pass comprehensive legislation to protect access 435 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 3: to abortion. And it cannot be about going back to, 436 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 3: you know, the shreds that were left a row. It 437 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 3: has to be comprehensive. It has to be stronger. And 438 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: here's the thing, because of Roe versus Way, for many years, 439 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: people did not understand that Congress has the power to 440 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 3: do this. But they do. And let me just say 441 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: about this, the American public is already way ahead of 442 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 3: Congress on this. In every state where they've been given 443 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 3: the opportunity, a majority has voted for access to abortion. 444 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 3: So we think about people have to realize this is 445 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 3: within grasp of being able to have, you know, Congress 446 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: address the national nightmare of the criminalization of abortion. Congress 447 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 3: can do it. The movement has been working on some 448 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 3: very strong legislation that when there is a majority supporting 449 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 3: abortion rights, I would fully expect to be introduced. It 450 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 3: would be legislation that covers the two big proms, which is, 451 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 3: you know, the legal right to access abortion care, and 452 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 3: the second would be the addressing the financial issues, the 453 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 3: insurance issues that I just talked about, you know, as 454 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 3: well as issues of you know, not excluding immigrants from healthcare. 455 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: And here's Mary Ziegeler on repealing outdated laws. 456 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: One thing I think a kind of bare minimum idea 457 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: Democrats would explore would probably be repealing bad old laws 458 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: like the Comstock Act, which is sort of hanging fires 459 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: of possibility for a Republican administration to use to mail 460 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 2: van the mailing of any item related to abortion, which 461 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: could be a backdoor national ban on abortion. So I 462 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: think a first step for Democrats would be to take 463 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 2: that off the table. Democrats have also been focusing on 464 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: some kind of federal guarantee for access to reproductive rights. 465 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: The model that was receiving the most attention the Biden 466 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: years was the Women's Health Protection Act, and we may 467 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: see a kind of updated, you know, Women's Health Protection 468 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: Act two point zero that will recognize some of the 469 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 2: changes we've seen since that bill was drafted. Because that 470 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 2: bill was drafted of course, you know in an era 471 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,719 Speaker 2: where a lot of the kinds of state laws were 472 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: seeing from conservatives just weren't on the books. So and 473 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: the reason that's important is because Republicans are not very 474 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 2: likely to pass a sweeping bill criminalizing abortion, an IVF, 475 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 2: and contraception, because then they're going to have to have 476 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 2: that be on their voting record. The danger about something 477 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: like the Comstock Act is that Republicans can say, hey, 478 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 2: it's not me, it's just existing federal law. I'm just 479 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 2: enforcing existing federal law. So removing the Comstock Act would 480 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 2: mean essentially that to get to the same results, Republicans 481 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 2: would actually have to be accountable for what they were 482 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 2: voting for, and I think that would be a much 483 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 2: much heavier lift for people opposed to abortion. 484 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: Kelly Badden explains that Roe was not the end all, 485 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: be all of reproductive rights and what we can do 486 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: to approve on it. I know Roe v. 487 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 4: WAD was the floor, not the ceiling, and I think 488 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 4: that's an important reminder for what we think about now 489 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 4: when we think about, Okay, Roe is gone, we have 490 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 4: to build back something better and stronger and something that 491 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 4: really allows for true reproductive health care access. For all 492 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 4: and not the limitations that we had even under the 493 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 4: ROW framework that. 494 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 5: There's no one fixed. 495 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: This is an effort that needs to happen at every 496 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 4: level of government, the state legislature's, the courts, Congress, and 497 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 4: federal administration. Nothing short of an all out national right 498 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 4: to abortion for anyone at any time, without barriers is 499 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 4: acceptable from a values judgment, right, from a values point 500 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 4: of view, from our human rights point of view. But 501 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 4: what that means practice is we have to be responding 502 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 4: to all of the attacks that we are seeing. There 503 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 4: are city councils who are passing laws saying you can't 504 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 4: use the roads in that city or county to leave 505 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 4: to go get an abortion. There are states that are 506 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 4: trying to ban people from helping someone leave the state 507 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 4: to get abortion care that is legal in another state. Right, like, 508 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 4: they are really finding any lever they can to criminalize 509 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 4: patients and providers and really limit your ability as a 510 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 4: human being to move around the country with ease, which 511 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 4: is your constitutional right to travel. And so I say 512 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 4: that because we can't just say, hey, there's one silver 513 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 4: bullet here. It's not ballot measures. That's part of the toolbox, right, 514 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 4: that's one tool in the toolbox. The wins that we've 515 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 4: had in state ballot measures are an incredible display of 516 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 4: clear articulation that the public wants to see abortion rights 517 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 4: protected even in what we would consider kind of traditionally 518 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 4: hostile or red so called bread states. Right, that's not 519 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 4: universally true, but it's by and large true, And I 520 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 4: think that I would start with a state by state strategy, 521 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 4: leave no state untested. When you can win in Missouri, 522 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 4: when you can win in Kansas, it means you can 523 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 4: win in other places. To build the ground game, build 524 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 4: the state policy muscle, to remove abortion bands, to overturn 525 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 4: abortion bands, and to start focusing on access right, not 526 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 4: just legality, but access, and then use that momentum at 527 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 4: the federal level to enact in a national right to abortion, 528 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 4: and to do things like protecting your ability to travel 529 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 4: across state lines for healthcare of any kind, protecting your 530 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 4: ability to access a full range of information about how 531 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 4: to use mifipristone, or how to use medicaids in abortion, 532 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 4: to enact levers, and create abortion funds that are publicly funded. 533 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 4: Make sure Medicaid and other public insurance programs cover abortion care. 534 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 4: Make sure there are not limitations for private insurance. We 535 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 4: know that the High Amendment has been a horrific policy 536 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 4: for also nearly fifty years that even while Roe stood, 537 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 4: really stopped people from getting the care that they need 538 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 4: that they otherwise would have gotten. 539 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: We need to think big. This new era of politics 540 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't be about Democrats taking half measures the way they 541 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: might have in previous administrations. Jessica Valenti doesn't think the 542 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: government should be involved in women's pregnancies at all. 543 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 5: The ideal scenario is national protections for abortion by just 544 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 5: saying the government has no place intervening in pregnancy. Ever, 545 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 5: pregnancy is too complicated to legislate at any point, and 546 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 5: we are like, I don't want to hear about like 547 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 5: row or storing row. I don't want to hear about 548 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 5: twenty four weeks. I don't want to hear about viability, 549 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 5: which is a made up term that's not a medical term. 550 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 5: Just there is no place for the government in pregnancy. 551 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: Another thing we must do is protect women from frivolous 552 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: lawsuits filed to strip away their reproductive rights. 553 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 5: From civil suits. Right, Like, That's the other thing that 554 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 5: we're seeing. Texas, which is always leading the way in 555 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 5: these sort of like nightmare bills. They passed a law 556 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 5: that just went into effect this month that allows people 557 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 5: to sue pretty much anyone who touches abortion pills on 558 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 5: their way to a woman in Texas for one hundred 559 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 5: thousand dollars. And so again it's a way to get 560 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 5: around this idea that like there's a prohibition on actually 561 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 5: criminalizing or actually suing the pregnant person who's had an abortion. 562 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 5: Instead of doing that will ruin everyone's life around you, Right, 563 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 5: We'll make it so you have no support system. We'll 564 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 5: make it so that your friends and family are too 565 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 5: afraid to help you get abortion pills, too afraid to 566 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 5: lend you money to get out of town, too afraid 567 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 5: to give you advice. They want to create isolation and 568 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 5: fear and this chilling effect. 569 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: Lastly, Mary Ziegler thinks Democrats need to take better action 570 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: to protect reproductive rights. 571 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: So I think there's definitely a question of Democrats getting 572 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 2: their stuff together about it, because we've had plenty of 573 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 2: scenarios where Democrats had majorities that could pass federal protections 574 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 2: for reproductive rights, and they've literally never done it. They 575 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: didn't do it in the nineties, they didn't do it 576 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: in the oughts, and so I think an important thing 577 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: to happen if Democrats are able to do this again 578 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 2: is to finally say this time it's a priority. 579 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: Right. 580 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 2: There was always this sort of either Democrats worrying with 581 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: one another about how progressive or practical to be to 582 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: the point where they didn't do anything, or it was 583 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: Democrats saying, well, we can deal with reproductive rights later 584 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: because we have bigger problems. And I think if Democrats 585 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 2: get into power again, there would have to be a 586 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: moment where they say, you know, the time is really now, 587 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 2: this is a priority. It's this is going to take 588 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 2: back seat again to whatever other issue of the day 589 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: happens to be there. And I'm not that pessimistic about that, 590 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: because I think we've seen since Roe was overturned that 591 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: this is an issue on which democrats principles and kind 592 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 2: of selfish priorities dovetail. Right, A lot of democrats political 593 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 2: self interest aligns with their ability to enact their principles. 594 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: Here. 595 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: This isn't a situation where Democrats are out on a 596 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 2: limb doing something that's likely to cost them electorally. When 597 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 2: they're acting on their principles, because one of the lessons 598 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: we've seen since the overruling of Dobbs is that reproductive 599 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: rights are not a democratic issue. They're an issue everybody, 600 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 2: not everybody, but that a majority of Americans agree on. 601 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 2: It's a winning issue in deep red states like Missouri, 602 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 2: it's a winning issue in purple states like Arizona and Michigan. 603 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: Polling in places like Louisiana suggests that a majority of 604 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 2: voters there think their abortion laws are too harsh. So 605 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 2: the ballot an issue of campaign's been a really powerful 606 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 2: way to take advantage of that, where it's possible to 607 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 2: say essentially that where the Republican Party is on this 608 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 2: is not where the American people are on this anywhere, 609 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 2: including in some of the red estates in America. 610 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for watching this episode. We made 611 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: this series to get the conversation going about what happens 612 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: after trump Ism. Democrats need to be more than just 613 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: anti Trump, and part of this includes a bold vision 614 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: to rebuild after Trump's disastrous agenda reshapes America. We'd love 615 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: to create as much of a conversation around this as possible. 616 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: Solea you share it with a friend and click like 617 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: on this video and comment, so it spreads to more 618 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: people on YouTube