WEBVTT - Rick Mueller 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.320 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to this week's edition of the Bob 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:11.719 Left Sets podcast. My guest today is Rick Mueller, who's 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:16.280 president of A E. G Presents North America. Good to 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.079 have you here. Thanks for having me, Bob. Like I 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.000 do with everybody, We're gonna get into ticketing, We're to 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.160 get into touring, we're gonna get to other things musical. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.560 But I like to get where a person comes from 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.520 because that reflects who they ultimately are. You're from North 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.800 Cow right correct to grew out in the East Banna 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:31.720 town called Lafia, just on the other side of the 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.960 Berkeley Hills, Lafayette. It's like what, I don't even I 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.199 didn't even know the name Lafiat. Pretty much grew up 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.000 in the suburban dream, deep suburbs of the San Francisco 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.640 Bay area. My dad was an executive at Chevron. I 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.040 grew up going to high school like thousand people, pretty 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.239 much the American dream. I think your father was an 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.640 executive at Chevron doing what do you have any idea? 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.080 He worked in chemical additives division, and so he did. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:58.960 I mean, so when I go to the Chevron stage 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:00.720 and it says you want to buy show run because 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.320 of tech Ron. He's that guy. He is. Indeed, he 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.720 would oftentimes at the dinner table tell me what you 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.080 know additives did to gasoline. I couldn't recount any of 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:13.120 that today, but you know, but he was passionate about it. Yeah. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:14.840 He was a hard working guy. He was smart guy. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.120 As a trained chemist from m I T and worked 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.400 his way in the executive side and finished his career 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.479 living in Singapore managing and building a refinery and doing 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.160 deals in the Pacific. Room thought your parents remained married. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.080 They just had their fiftieth winter in anniversary. Okay, so 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.200 they moved to Singapore after you were out of the house. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.800 They did after my freshman year. I went to school 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.520 at Santa Barbara. They left I think that spring and 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.200 my first year of college, and they spent the next 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.400 seven or eight years there. Okay, so you're the only kid. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.800 How many kids in the family, two kids, older brother 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.160 he went to Santa Barbara as well, and then went 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.920 to business school at U T in Austin and then 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.160 never left Austin. What does he do? He and his 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.960 wife had their own mortgage brokersh company. Okay, so you're 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.160 living in northern California and are you into music. Grew 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.960 up on music, So music because you're parents, role, your 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.640 older brother, your personal passion, personal passion. Early just I 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.440 was a Kinnectic kid. Music resonated with me so early on. 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.679 My mom got me enrolled in drum lessons because I 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.800 don't know if I just you know, she saw me 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.400 like an animal from the Muppet movies. I was a 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.720 bit for sure growing up in this day and age, 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.560 I would have been diagnosed as they like the A D. 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.720 D kid and probably put on adderall or something to 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.079 like calm me down. But she got me involved in 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.120 a lot of sports. She signed me up for drum lessons, 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:27.639 and these were all kind of outlets to get the 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.240 energy out. But I really resonated in music early on. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.840 And then as I got into high school, they had 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.480 a high school radio station, so I signed up for 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.400 that and we used to broad a little bit slower. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.040 So how old were you when you started to play drums? Eight? 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.240 Ten years old? Okay? Did you ever play with bands? 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.120 Try to played through the jazz bands in high school. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.680 A few failed attempted rock bands that they never got far. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.320 There wasn't really much of like a rock band music 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.800 scene in the suburbs. Of this would have been eighty 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.600 eight to ninety two ish. And do you have a 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.960 drum set today? I do not? I uh in college, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:01.960 I took it with me to Santa Barbara. I played 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:03.840 a little bit, and this is right as I was 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.240 getting into concert promoting at school at Santa Barbara, and 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.360 I decided that I was just better at promoting events 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.120 than I was a drummer. I think many concert promoters 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.680 and people in the music business are failed musicians, so 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.799 they got onto the business side of the absolute We 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.880 all try yeah, and then woke up one day and 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.000 realized we didn't have What a total failure. Where are 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.040 those drums today? Sold long gone. I'm not a big 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.000 keeper of stuff, so like if I'm done the opposite, 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.480 I'm around my girlfriend crazy. But in any event, you're 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.160 in high school, you're in the band correct playing the 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.240 drums played jazz band, and the drums had to do 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.880 the orchestra band as requirement to get into jazz band. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.400 Hated that, and we just put on headphones and play 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.920 along with rock tracks at home. At the time. What 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:47.920 music were you listening to at home? I think the 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.920 first really big band to me was the old Van 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.120 Halen the David Lee Roth Ara van Halen is like 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:53.680 the first thing that really what do you think about 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.520 Van Halen is they were a big band. These played 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.560 the star Wood, which no longer exists, and I went 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.040 to the Santa Monica Cific. This is a couple of 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.680 months before the first album came out, and they were 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.960 the opening band for Nils Loft Grin who came and 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.200 he would do his little flip on the mini tramp whatever. 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.000 And you laughed because people listen to the podcast may 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.559 not be old enough to remember this band, Black Oak, Arkansas, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.400 but the leader Jim Dandy, who had the same stick 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.040 as David Lee Roth, the long blondier the open Street 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.480 and I was laughing. And then of course the record 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.240 came out with Running with the Devil, and you go, wow, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.400 this is great. Well, it just came down with the 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.120 guitar plane right right exactly, but it was it was 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.159 beyond that. Even the people who poo poo that sound 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.480 said that Eddie was a great guitar player. Okay, so 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.680 you were into uh van Halo, van Halen and and 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.320 that era of hard rock heavy metal at the time, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.840 and then you know, I think around my junior year 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.400 of high school junior going to senior high school, Kurt 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:52.120 Cobain put out, uh, never mind, and that turned me 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.120 on my head. I went deep into the alternative scene. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.359 As soon as I got to college, I got turned 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.560 onto hip hop. Um, and that was where I just 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.159 kind of got to see a lot more music happening 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:04.800 when it was, you know, once I got to school 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.720 at Santa Barbara. Okay, So when you're in high school, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.440 you have no dream of being in the music business, 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.080 or do you. I don't know that headed dreams for anything. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.880 At that point, I was just finding my way. I 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:18.120 enjoyed doing music. I enjoyed doing the radio station. Um, okay, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.840 so what I mean? But this was much more sophisticated 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.200 than my era. There was a high school radio station 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.120 casey e Q Rock of the Dons. And how far 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.159 away could you hear it? At least to the parking lot. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.720 You remember how many watts it had? I don't. I 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.640 I remember, like, I'm not sure you could have gotten 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.400 it at the other side of town. It was really 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.040 not it was it was more of a of a 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.719 hobby than it really was. We were actually entertaining anybody 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.200 out there. But um, I pursued it with a lot 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.640 of passion. We definitely worked on my playlist every day. 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.320 So how often what were the hours of the station? 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.400 It would run from, you know, like late periods of 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.640 the afternoon into I think the last show ended up 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.320 at like ten o'clock at night really, so it was 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.080 like a regular way to Yeah, you're a kid, you 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.080 had like a two hour shift, maybe three hour shifts 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.200 something like that. But you must have been pretty passionate 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.720 to be involved. Loved it, loved it. I think it 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.240 was the president of the Radio Club or whatever they 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.840 called it at that time. So you go to Santa 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.880 Barbara with a you know, once one goes to college, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.400 it's a reset and you can join or not join. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.200 What did you then do to further your music career? First? 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.080 Did you? Did you join the radio station? I did not. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.280 I looked at it. It was a little too um 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.520 at that point. It was a little too alternatives that 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.520 the right word. It was just a little too left 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.000 for me with the political views and it with the 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.440 snobbery of the music and that kind of stuff. It was. 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.200 I just didn't get the right vibe from it when 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:41.680 I first checked it out, and I didn't really kick 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.120 the tires that hard because you also had to start 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:45.880 out with shows that were like at two in the morning, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.920 because it was put in your dues and I probably 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:53.119 wasn't that interested in it. Um. Actually further the music 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.799 interest kind of on accident. So my freshman year of college, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.200 I went through fraternity rush in the spring and I 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.320 hated it and it just wasn't my scene. I didn't 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.320 like it. And at that point I was looking around 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.760 what to do, and my friend who lived on my 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.280 floor at the door and said, hey, come check out 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.240 the programming committee. Um, there's some jobs open there. My 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.680 buddies on it. They do all kinds of stuff, And 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.240 I said, why not. I went down and checked it 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.960 out and filled out an application. It was hired on 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.880 as the movie coordinator, so I booked movies that would 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.600 happen on campus every year. But as soon as I 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.720 got in the door for that, I fully locked in 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.080 on the guy who was booking concerts. I said, what's 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.640 that's all about? I was super interested in it still 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.040 right in. It's how I learned to use Excel to 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.400 do budgeting. Um, I learned how to you know what 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.360 the poll star thing was all about and start so 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.160 you go at the end of your freshman year, did 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.400 you book movies? I did, and that would be just 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.040 what would be the economics of that? That was more 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.200 for what I think for most colleges, it was more 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.120 of just a lost leader of entertainment on campus. We 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.400 charged a couple of bucks to get into the IV 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.520 theater um and we do you know, new releases. A 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.760 lot of the movie companies would say, hey, we want 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.400 a premiere this movie, and they do free premiers to 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.520 kind of get the word of mouth going with college kids. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.160 And then we'd also run you know, second run films 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:12.960 in there that kind of had some you know how 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.320 much marketing and promotion was there for those films. It 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:16.720 was a lot of hand to hand. It was kind 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.320 of good early early concert promoting training. I did a lot. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.360 I did a lot of walking around campus with flyers 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.640 and putting up posters. Still probably have a couple of 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.240 staple guns in the garage. Okay, so how long before 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.720 you start to become active in the contract end of it? Uh? 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.920 The following year when they opened up the concert promoter job, 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.480 I applied for that and got that, So I ended 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.719 up promoting shows. You became the concert promoter. So there 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.400 was you know, there was a concert promoter job within 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.280 the program where there was a movie program or a 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.640 concert promoter, a production guy, a marketing guy, uh, you know, 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.200 kind of what would be a business affairs type person 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.960 who would handle the contracts and the organization internal organization. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.680 So I applied for the concert promoter, which is really 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.120 becoming the buyer. But I really immersed myself in the 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.680 whole thing. One would think that would be a desirable job, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.880 that other people would want that job. There was a 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:08.680 bunch of people who were into it. The guy who 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.680 had the job became before me. I became friends with 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.680 really quick and just kind of I was all over 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.160 him my first year when I was doing the movies 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.600 about concerts. And I don't know if I was a natural, 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.760 but I was certainly like chasing that thing pretty vigorously. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:24.720 So I think there were a few other people that 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.760 applied for it, but at that point I had had 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.120 the experience in the tenure on the program board and 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.000 lit and behold, they got the job. Okay, So, so 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.440 you really didn't work on concerts before you got that job. Lets, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:38.840 so you got the job, what's the first thing you 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.600 have to do books and bands. So so you know 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.480 many I went to a small college and there were 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.839 certain times a year when they booked named talent. It 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.760 was like three times a year. How many slots were there. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.680 At UCSB, we had more of a pot of money, 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.040 and whatever the pot was, we could book bands until 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:57.559 we were out of money, and at the end of 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.319 the year whatever, some amount of money was all back 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.360 for the big spring show. So if we book shows 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.120 and we figured out how to make money or lose 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.680 less on them, it was we had to keep going. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.400 So um I started booking bands. If we made money 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.480 on shows, we put it back. So the first year 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.520 you did In the second year, how many shows did 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.720 you actually book? Probably did about four or five shows 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.720 in my first year. Okay, so knowing people in the business, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.240 you're dealing with a middle agent to book those shows, No, sir, 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.640 just for those people don't know a lot of colleges, 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.440 they don't deal directly with W M. E or CIA. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.800 There are people who who are middle men who booked 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.040 those shows. But you didn't do that. No. I I 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:41.360 don't know if it was as much of a scene 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.520 was in college, but I never they had they had 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.679 some middleman type agencies called Nakpa that would like he 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.000 could go. Well, that was a convention where you could 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.079 go and you could see all the talent and meet 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.080 all the people. Correct, it was Nacka, not na Um. 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.719 But uh I called I got up polls Star, and 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.920 I called up Frank Riley at are your peninicial Artists 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.520 and said, we'd like to book Fish at UC Santa 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.679 Barbara And they were doing a college tour. Do you 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:13.400 remember just would have been nineteen four, okay, relatively early 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.319 in Fisher's tenure. Correct, So the the programming committee already 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.560 had a subscription to poll Star. That's how you were 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.920 aware of that. Correct. So you call up Frank and 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.520 Frank says, what UH send in the offer? We're doing 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.120 a college tour. Get me these dates. So put together 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.079 everything facts in the offer because it was pretty email. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.720 Uh probably called Frank once a week for the next 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.040 three four or five weeks, just probably mostly annoying him 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.600 because there was no answer. They just hadn't finished routing 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.000 and pulled part of your personality, how much does your 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.959 relentlessness figure into ultimate success? Well, in this particular case, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.520 it probably almost figured into my failure because I think 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.560 Frank was getting tired of hearing from me at the time. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.800 But um, eventually we confirmed the date and it's sold 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.959 out and which was how many people people? Four thousand 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.840 people played the events center there. Do you remember how 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.679 much you charged? No if I had a guest somewhere 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.320 around twenty bucks and you booked Fish because you were 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.199 a fan or you knew they would sell uh, because 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.320 they were So I was not a huge jam guy, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.360 but I mean it was well aware of Fish and 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.679 somebody maybe somebody turned me onto the opportunity that they 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.800 were gonna be touring. So I just started chasing it down. 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.280 And so you have that's your first gig, so you 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.840 must be feeling like a million bucks. Well yeah, until 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.320 the show played and then we got overrun by Fish fans. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.199 I was not very popular on campus after they played, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.960 because you know, Fish is actually very prepared band, even 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.839 even in the early days. They had great road people 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.880 and they did pretty thorough security advances because of the scene. 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.680 You know, it was very grateful dead esque and people 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.000 who have followed them on the road, and we had 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.240 a bunch of you know, new age hip. He's taken 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.080 over you see Santa Barbara Campus and I don't think 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.439 the police department was particularly I don't know, it's probably 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.800 an extra thousand people around realized that didn't get into 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:01.160 the show. Yeah. Yeah, but the show was a financial success. 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:02.720 Where do you go from there? It was a winner. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.640 So we did that and then I did shows with 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.559 We did Ben Harper, we did G Love I did 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.000 you know? At that point, I think I had started 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.439 in turning the Golden Voice in the summer, So that's 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.200 another Southern California promote. At one point I met Mitch Oakman, um, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.199 and we started booking No Doubt, who was already a 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.160 pretty successful Southern California band in that scene. They were 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:30.240 playing and selling out thousand clubs throughout Southern California before 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.800 Tragic Kingdom came out. Um, So we had them on 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.520 sale and then Tragic Kingdom came out and just a 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:40.559 Girl was blowing up and so that sold out there. Um. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.120 And they're actually the first band I did from clubs 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.200 to selling out twenty two thousand seats at Shoreline. Okay, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.160 did you do anything that didn't work? Uh? Did we 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.280 do anything that didn't work? We had a pretty good 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.520 track record, did we Oh, we booked a Sponge show. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.000 I got bullied into booking Sponge one point in time, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.200 by whom the agent think just kind of like, hey, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:02.640 we'll sell you some other stuff, but you got to 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.480 do this one. It's a big college tour. It's really 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.840 important to us, and and that one didn't work so well, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:10.960 and we had a widespread panic show that didn't work 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.680 so good as well. Okay, now you're starting from zero 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.079 and it's a bullying business, so you must have learned 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:21.080 a few lessons along the way there in college. Yeah. Honestly, 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.320 when you're in college here it's a you could be 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.480 a bit more irravulant because I wasn't at that point 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.560 thinking of it as a career. So it was sometimes 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.800 easier to say no to certain agents as opposed to 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:32.720 you know, in the relationships where we have with a 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.800 William Moore associated now, where you want to be full 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:36.720 service and try and help them out with a lot 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.440 more even though you know or don't feel it's gonna work. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.320 So what were the lessons you learned promoting in college? 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.840 I think really how to be utilitarian about it, so 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.800 you know, we'd go out and hand out flyers, try 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.320 and sell tickets. I learned about ticket printing. You know, 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.360 at that time it was still a hard ticket business 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.960 on campus. It was an electronic system. So I had 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.600 to learn a little bit about the ticketing business. I 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.160 had to learn a little bit about production. I had 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.760 to learn a little bit abou settlement and get myself 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.200 proficient enough to come off as we were quasi professionally 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.960 presenting these concerts. And at what point do you wake 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:10.960 up and say, WHOA, this might be a career. It's 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.640 very clear moment for me. So spring of nineteen nineties six, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.440 we're in your college career, my senior year, so I'm 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.560 going to be graduating. Uh. That June I went to 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.000 the career center on campus and I remember flipping through 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.120 this binder and they have the companies that are coming 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.320 to interview on campus and what kind of jobs they have. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.760 And I was flipping through, flipping through, flipping through, and 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.200 then I said, you know, if I leave right now, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.600 I can go and work on that budget for the 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.680 three leven Farside cypercill tour that Caro Lewis had called 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.360 me about. And uh, I closed the book and went 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.400 and did that and never did anything. At that point. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.040 I was all in on concerts. Okay, so you graduate, 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.440 what is your next job? I started it at Bill 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.480 Graham Presents three days after I graduated. How did you 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.920 get the gig so um backing up before that my 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.320 after my junior year, I or spring of my junior year, 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.640 and uh and some that summer I had talked my 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.880 way into an internship with Paul to let Rick van 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.920 Stanton a Golden Voice. So I cut class three days 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:21.440 a week in the spring and drove to l a 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.320 and would work out of the Golden Voice office. And 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.360 then as soon as classes friends couches that I do 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.800 in l a UM and so I'd work for them 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:32.920 in the spring and and and then the summer. And 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.920 which was like the best next step for learning because 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.080 had I intern at a company like Bill Cranbers, because 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.880 Bill gran Presents, I would have been in the back 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.880 and their poster archives finally posters all summer, wouldn't wouldn't 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.600 have had the access sitting literally right in between Rick 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.360 and Paul. I got to prepare offers for them. I 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.080 got to see how they do settlements. I got to 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.520 see watch them do a lollapaloos a year um, you know, 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.440 out of the field, and really get hands on and 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.480 get real jobs. I got to work the box office 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.320 Duke box office settlements. It was way more access than 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.040 a college kid was getting to professional concert promoting at 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.200 that point in time. So, um, you had Paul to Lett, 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.440 who ultimately went on as well. Both he and Rick 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.280 co founded Coachella and was as a visionary in our business. 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.360 But you had Rick and Paul and Moss Jacobs, who 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.639 I worked with again now all these years later. Um, 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.200 I got access to these guys and how they were 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.119 promoting their styles, and it was just an incredible learning experience. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.280 So then I went back to Santa Barbara. We actually 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.640 ran the concert program in the Black the whole year, 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:33.879 uh that following year, and I think we probably did 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.240 close to twelve to fifteen shows that year for for concerts, 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.960 I mean, sorry for our college promoters, quite a bit 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.920 of shows. Um. So, as I was decided to try 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.440 to get into this business, I went to see Paul 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.800 t as they were opening up the Glass House out 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.359 in Pomona and gave them the big pitch that I 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.160 wanted to be in the business. And at that point 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.600 in time, they just weren't in a fine financial position 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.920 to hire me on full time, and I said, great, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:59.520 if you can give me a reference as I go 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.159 hunter round for whoever else is out there, I'd appreciate it. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:08.320 So my production managers girlfriends father was friends with Greg 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.719 pearl Off, who was running bill Gram Presents. So it's 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.880 all about the connections, all about the well anyway, I've 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.320 i've i've, you know, fact in a resume cold the 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:22.280 Bill Gram Presents. Uh. One day and UH to Greg 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.880 and UH said, hey, I'd be interested in working here. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.359 And I know, uh, your friends, uh daughter who knows 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.040 my production manager, and I really love concerts, and I'd 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.119 like to work at bill Gram Presents and send in 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.600 with my resume. And I remember on a Friday afternoon, 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.440 I got a call from Greg when I was probably 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.240 you know, two beers, two beers or into the afternoon 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.800 and eating a bowl aposta in my apartment and uh 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.040 and you know, as you often did at the UC 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.920 Santa Barbara, and uh he flew me up for an interview, 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.919 and I went up there to interview. Uh. This is 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.280 obviously in the spring of nine. I had a good interview. 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.200 I brought, you know, I brought my my show file 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.920 from the Big Fish jo a done and having worked 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.760 the summer Golden Voice, I felt like I had a real, 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.479 you know, professional looking show file, which it was probably 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:10.320 it was probably in a pretty good shape. And I 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.840 remember sitting in an office with Greg pearl Off, Sherry Wasserman, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.520 and Lee Smith, and Sherry looked through the Fish show 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.400 file where they're asking me with questions, and she told 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.440 me years later that one of the reasons they hired 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.040 me is because I had kind a better deal than 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.879 they did on Fish. They had done the U. C. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.040 Davis show themselves, and I got Santa Barbara. So she said, 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.240 you know, you actually looked like you know what you're 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.240 doing for a college kid. So worked out pretty good. Okay, 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.080 But you know you said, Golden Voice couldn't afford you. 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.280 It couldn't for me. They just weren't. They weren't. They 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.520 just weren't in a position to hire. It wasn't like 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.760 I was negotiating. Was just like, we don't understand, but 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:46.639 B G P had an opening or they made an 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.920 opening for you. Uh, maybe a little bit of both. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.440 In a sense. I think there had been some talk 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.119 about hiring somebody young that they could bring in as 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.480 an assistant and groom into a booker for the department, 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.720 and I presented the right opportunity in case at the 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.919 right time, and it was the gig. I started out 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.320 as Lee Smith's assistant in the booking department, and I 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.840 was pretty active about um learning everything I could. When 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.199 I got to Bill gram Presents, uh, you know, listening 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.280 on all his phone calls, whether he knew it or not, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.359 and uh learned how he talked to agents, learned about 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.919 booking bands, kind of learned what different agent styles were about, 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:24.080 and again kind of further further to my knowledge base 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.800 of you know, how they how they process contracts, how 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.960 they built show budgets, how they you know, executed shows, 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:32.199 and the Bill Graham way of doing things. Now you 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.200 start in the spring of at the end of nine 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:40.080 s comes the famous roll up by Sillerman into Clear 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:45.199 Channel where he buys multiple promoters within they bought Bill Graham. Correct. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.800 It was It was about a year, about a year 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.240 into my tenure there that Bob Stillman came along and he, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.600 you know, I think we were bilgram Presents was probably 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.600 in the middle of the middle of that row of acquisitions. 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.040 Somewhere in there. I don't but you know it wasn't 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.160 at the very beginning, but it certainly wasn't the last 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.199 of them either. Okay, so you worked there for a 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.760 year and you slowly gained more responsibilities, I would assume. Yeah, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.480 about a year and a half in they started letting 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.240 me book my own shows. Um I think I was 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.680 a full time talent buyer there. Okay, could you book 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:16.880 at any of their venues or you do? It's got 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.040 specific venues to book. Uh. You know, when you first 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:21.879 start out, they give you a kind of maybe the 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.000 less desirable agents to work with. Um. I booked a 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.399 lot of third party venues. Michael Bailey was pretty much 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:30.919 the exclusive booker at the Fillmore on Warfield at that 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:32.960 point where they're which is where their main two clubs. 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.240 Um So I didn't really do anything there, but I 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:37.640 think one of the first shows I booked for Bill 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.159 Represents was BB King at the Paramount Theater. Um. But 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.399 it was it was actually kind of a good, uh 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:46.520 good way to cut my teeth because I learned how 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.359 to book R and B and blues, I learned how 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:51.080 to book Lyle love It and a lot of the 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.520 M O R stuff, you know. Coming out of college, 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.600 it was a kid who loved Nirvana and indie music 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.720 and hip hop like learning these other genres of music 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.960 that I wasn't really that turned onto. Uh. It was 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:04.840 a good way to become a more well rounded promoter 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.760 and understand the business. Okay, so you're working at Bill Graham, 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.679 it ultimately gets brought by Sillerman. How do you end 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:16.399 up working what results as Live Nation today? For me, 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:18.800 it was just pretty much a steady arc through all 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:20.960 of that that I call I always generally refer to 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.560 it as the consolidation roller coaster. So Bob Stillerman and 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.480 the original SFX came in and bought all the promoters. 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.959 He flipped that to Clear Channel Radio. Clear Channel Radio 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:35.760 stuck with it for a number of years and then 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.879 will eventually spun that company off into Live Nation. The 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.919 big reason Clear Channel Radio spun off Live Nation is 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:44.800 that when they acquired it, it was all on the 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.439 concept that there's going to be synergy between sponsorships of 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.600 what we can sell in the concerts, and we'll be 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.760 able to take our clout with artists and help generate 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.080 more concerts, will generate more sponsorship, and we'll grow the 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.080 business that way. At the time, the business wasn't predictable 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.920 enough that you know, concert promoter years could be very 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.320 spiky in terms of revenue and profitability, and for a 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.480 public company at that point in time, it was really 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:09.240 difficult for them to get their head around it because 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.760 Clear Channel was kind of a straight line of growth 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.040 and at that time what was either Clear Channel Entertainment 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:18.040 or that part of the division would be very up 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.320 and down year over year in that economy. So I 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.800 think there became a frustration that they weren't it was 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.960 hurting the overall Clear Channel performance. UM. Their frustration grew 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.639 within that because nobody UM seemed to be able to 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.200 kind of get their arms around and get a consistent 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.480 result out of the concert company. So they spun that 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:38.840 off and that was around the same time that uh, 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.200 Michael Roppino came in and took hold of what them 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:43.520 became Live Nation UM when they finally gave it the 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:45.600 new name, and Michael has done a great job with 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.040 its sense. So you were at Bill Graham, how do 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.080 you move up the food church just buying shows. I've 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.600 been fortunate of a lot of good circumstance and opportunities, 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:56.199 so I've put in a lot of hard work but 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.560 so I came into the department and Lee Smith and 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.199 Sherry Ossman were booking most of the shows throughout San Francisco, 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.560 and that was from everywhere from theater stuff up to 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:11.800 Shoreland Amphitheater and the stadium shows. Um I'd say right 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:14.600 around the time I got promoted, UM, Lee Smith had 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:16.520 kind of a change of heart in terms of what 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:18.520 he was focusing on, and he left the day to 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.080 day booking department to go work on new business development. 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.000 So it then became mean Cherry Wasserman booking most of 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:27.200 the shows in there, and at that point Sherry was 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.800 probably focused a bit more on passion projects and interesting 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:32.840 projects that she was on day to day stuff. So 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:35.920 I was essentially the you know, nine to five guy 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.479 in the office picking up the phone. And I just 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:41.199 was so in love with getting out offers and promoting 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:45.040 shows that it was really this wide open opportunity for 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.879 me to promote as much as I could in my career. 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:49.639 So not a lot of people get there. I mean, 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:51.959 you hear far more stories about people having to compete 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:55.320 for their lane. I had a different opportunities that, you know, 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:57.600 this unique opportunity where I didn't have to compete with 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:00.280 people within the company to get my you know, my 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:02.399 lane of talent. And I just got to do a 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:04.520 ton of shows across a lot of different genres, and 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:06.879 I had the support of Sherry. We would work together 0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:09.520 and whatever Greg was working on, And those guys turned 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:11.840 me onto their relationships of people they had worked with 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:15.160 a long time and probably some of the fun most 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:16.840 fun I've ever had in the business. And how do 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:18.960 you end up in the main office in Los Angeles. 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:22.640 So as the consolidation happened and it rolled out, UM 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:26.160 Greg and Sherry left around two thousand three to start 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:30.520 another Planet Entertainment. Um Lee came back out of the 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:34.480 out of the business development world of what he was 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:39.680 doing UH and was running the office. I was working 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:43.200 with him booking shows. I eventually got promoted to run 0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:48.000 the San Francisco office UH there and in two thousand eight, 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:52.200 Jason Garner, who was running Live Nation for North America 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:54.080 at the time and as a friend of mine who 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:56.680 I had started doing Latin shows with in San Jose 0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:59.760 when he was a local promoter in Northern California, UH, 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:04.520 recruited me to come down and oversee the Los Angeles office. 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:06.800 In addition, to still having some oversight of San Francisco. 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.360 So in two thousand and eight, I had the opportunity 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:11.840 to come to l A. Uh. My wife is from 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.000 Redondo Beach. We talked it over and it's kind of 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:17.240 a good time in life. With our daughter about to 0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:19.520 go into the school, going to school, she was four 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.040 years old. We said, you know, we've been in San 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:24.639 Francisco for a while. It's spent my entire life except 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:26.840 for college, up in in Northern California, and it just 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:28.199 felt like the right time to make a move. And 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:30.040 it was a good job opportunity down here. So you 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:31.800 work for a Live Nation how long, well, if you 0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:34.320 count their early days counting Los Angeles, how long you 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:36.520 in Los Angeles two thousand and eight to two thousand 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.000 eleven for a Live Nation? Okay, and then you leave 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:41.560 to go to a g correct And what is the 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:44.040 job they're offering you at a When I was leaving 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:47.639 Live Nation at that point, the economy kind of rode 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.639 the economy down when I moved to Los Angeles. You know, 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.240 the bottom fell out in two thousand eight, and it 0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:54.000 was pretty bad. You know, it was a tough time 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:56.080 in the concert business from eight to two thousand eleven, 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:58.840 a lot of belt tightening going on at a public 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.720 company in terms of there was ten percent layoffs of 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.640 couting back staff weren't selling. They weren't selling and um. 0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:07.879 You know, that was the early days of the Ticketmaster merger, 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:09.399 and there was a little bit of competition I think 0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:12.399 between A's Off and Rappino, and being right in the 0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:15.560 middle of that l A got to be a tricky navigation. 0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:18.119 So I just was a little bit burnt out on 0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.640 that part of the job and running that business UM 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:25.080 and wanted to start working on different projects and step 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:27.639 away from the scenario that I was in. So I 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:30.080 called Paul to Let who I used to intern with, 0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:34.359 and we started talking about opportunities and he UM he 0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.840 helped facilitate a discussion with a g which owns Golden Voices, 0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:40.800 and I went over there to start working on projects 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:43.600 with Paul and the Golden Voice team throughout. So he 0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:46.520 did not go all over as any kind of hands 0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:49.480 on booker. You were going over with what to go. 0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:51.880 I went over to book and do create new projects. 0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:55.960 And I also they needed some help organizing their UM 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.080 some of their venue platforms and stuff in l A, 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.639 so I came UM to help them a little bit 0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.240 run the Golden Voice business and really to focus on 0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:06.280 new projects. Okay, and then how do you end up 0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:10.040 being head of North America. So in two thousand and thirteen, 0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.320 I think Randy Phillips was let go and so was 0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:16.560 Tim Lowicky Ja Marciano was brought back from running the 0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:20.560 O two in London to oversee a G Live at 0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:25.600 the time, which now presents UM, and he put myself 0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.560 UH in as President of North America. So I had 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:30.080 kind of come in saying I want to get out 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.760 of running the day to day operations and budgeting and 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:37.880 forecasting and the business side of UH of Concert Pony 0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:40.440 and focus a little bit more on events UM. I 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:42.320 did that for a year and a half. Two years 0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:45.720 the change happened in management and Jay said, hey, I'd 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.080 really like you to take on this role overseeing the 0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:51.120 entire country. I had connected with Jay when he came 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.120 back to a G just in a very social way 0:28:53.200 --> 0:28:55.680 and we we connected. So when he asked me to 0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:57.880 take the job, obviously it's a very good job. It's 0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:00.200 back to more towards what I had been doing it liveation. 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:02.320 But I wasn't opposed to it, and I felt good 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:08.760 about jumping right back in. We're having a good time 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:11.760 talking about the music business. Rick Mueller and me. Let's 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:15.040 pause for a moment, get right back into it. Thanks 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:16.960 for listening to this week's edition of the Bomb Left 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:19.480 Sets podcast. If you want to see photos and videos 0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:21.479 of my guests arriving in the Dude in studios here 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:25.120 in Venice, California, check out tune in dot com or 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:29.720 at tune in on Twitter and Instagram and now more 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:35.560 with a G presents North American President Rick Mueller. So, 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.360 I know that part of your job is to scout 0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:42.480 and sign new venues. Correct, how much of your time 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:44.960 is that? Probably spent a third of my day thinking 0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:47.480 about venue deals, where we're going to open them, where 0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:50.880 new markets we can get in um acquisitions, or if 0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:53.160 we're gonna build them from the ground up. So how 0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:56.760 many have you either purchased or started building on since 0:29:56.800 --> 0:30:03.240 you've had this gig a dozen eight new venues? And 0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:07.360 how do you decide um? There's a lot of variables. 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:10.280 I think what services in a marketplace? So some you 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:13.400 know there's an example of the venue you purchased. So 0:30:13.440 --> 0:30:17.520 we bought two clubs in Richmond, Virginia and uh Norfolk 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:21.280 called the National and then orv a beautiful rock clubs. 0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:25.600 So they existed pre existed. UM. The guys who built 0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:29.000 them did a great job. I think they were probably 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.600 more visionary than they were business people, and they had 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:35.440 trouble with covering the financing and the debt was catching 0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:38.160 up with them, and we started talking about with them 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.680 about UM coming to join a g and we looked 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.640 at that and in that case, we purchased two existing 0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:45.240 clubs and we put our infrastructure behind it, and the 0:30:45.240 --> 0:30:48.520 clubs are doing great today. UM. We just bought the 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.640 Agora Ballroom in Cleveland, Ohio, which was kind of a 0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:53.720 storied one of the storied rock rooms in the early 0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:56.480 days of rock and roll that has fallen off and 0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:58.800 being you know, it's become a little bit dilapidated, and 0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:02.040 we're renovate current renovating it right now and we'll reopen 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:05.320 it this uh the spring. We bought that building as well. 0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:07.960 It turns out real estates in Cleveland is still more 0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.960 affordable than Los Angeles. UM. And then we've done other 0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:12.880 deals where we took over at lease at the Shrine 0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:16.360 Auditorium here in Los Angeles where um after the Universal 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.760 Lampitheater went away and became a Harriet Potter ride. There's 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:22.480 obviously a hundred shows a year that uh, we're going 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:24.240 on up at the Universal Lampatheater that we're going to 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:26.440 be up for grabs. You know, they're really not making 0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:28.240 a whole lot of new six thousands the venues in 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:31.640 Los Angeles these days. So we decided, uh, you know, 0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:34.200 to go start having discussions with the shriner about taking 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:36.800 over that room. And I mean, ultimately, if you dig down, 0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:38.880 there's a pretty storied history of rock and roll at 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:42.640 the Shrine as well. So I like old classic rooms 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:44.440 that you can be refurbished. When I had moved down 0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:46.920 to Los Angeles for a two thousand eight for Live Nation, 0:31:46.960 --> 0:31:51.480 I inherited the Palladium renovation which Brian Murphy, who was 0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:54.640 the long time Avalon Tractions promoter, was working for Live 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.520 Nation and they SFS had acquired Avalon le Brian had 0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:02.040 gotten the lease on the Pladium and there was a 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.400 renovation going on there. So I got to be barely 0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:08.400 hands on on renovating the Hollywood Platium, which was absolutely amazing. 0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:12.120 So when you make a decision, how much do you believe, 0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:16.640 look into what the market can sustain, what the competition is. 0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:19.480 What are the factors that go in to decide before 0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:22.360 you put down your money. Well, number one, is it 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:25.120 a good room? You know, we've we've opened some good rooms, 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:27.360 we've opened some bad rooms. And there's nothing worse than 0:32:27.440 --> 0:32:29.480 having to book a bad room once it's open, once 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.640 the you know, the word is out on the venue 0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:34.840 and it either feels cold or it isn't well received. 0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:37.120 So I do my best to make sure I feel 0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:39.160 good that whatever the project is going to be, it's 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:40.960 a good room. Then you're gonna be looking at what's 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.280 the competition in the market, and that's going to dictate 0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:47.360 how much you can spend either renovate, rent by the venue, 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:49.800 and how good of a business opportunity it's going to 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.560 be for you. You say clubs, Now, in the old 0:32:52.640 --> 0:32:54.840 days a club was somewhere between a hundred and fifty 0:32:54.880 --> 0:32:56.960 and four hundred. What do you can sit? Now? They 0:32:57.000 --> 0:33:00.080 called the Wilterner Club, which is almost two thousand. Do 0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:02.240 you these these clubs that you talk about our what 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:06.840 size anywhere from twelve to three thousand seats? I would think, okay, 0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:09.760 let's just go below that to what degree are you 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:14.320 involved in under twelve hundred seats at ag Uh, We've 0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:17.440 got so. I mean we we have a lease on 0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:20.800 the Roxy on Sunset Boulevards. So that's probably the smallest 0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:23.320 club that we operate in Los Angeles that ultimately falls 0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:26.160 under my world. UM So we do everything from We 0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:28.080 don't have a lot of those. We've got them in 0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:34.200 l A, Denver, New York. Okay, so you're booking the Roxy. 0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:35.840 Can you make at the end of the day, can 0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:37.440 you make money at the Roxy? You can make a 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:38.960 few bucks. You have to be really tight and you 0:33:38.960 --> 0:33:42.040 have to be very disciplined on it. But in l 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:44.000 A where it's very competitive and you want to get 0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.680 in early with artists and you want to um so, 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:48.920 you know, we call it building a vertical and get 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:50.960 them on the path through your venue system so you 0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:53.040 can grow the band and stay with them through their career. 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:56.440 The Roxy's iconic. Um it's a great room for a 0:33:56.440 --> 0:33:58.920 band to start out and have a first play. That 0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:01.360 is call it more R and D. From our side 0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:02.760 of the equation, we don't really look at it as 0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:04.760 a huge profit center. We make a few bucks on it. 0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:06.959 It's not what you know, I guess it's to our 0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.680 budget every year for sure. Okay. Now, in the old days, 0:34:09.760 --> 0:34:13.200 meaning the seventies, prior to the crash of two thousand 0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:16.640 and Napster, the record companies supported all these clubs. They 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.480 bought tickets, they bought drinks, and that is how you 0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:23.600 got act started. A that economic support doesn't exist anymore, 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:26.440 correct for the most part. Yeah, okay, but what do 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.160 you believe? I you know, I grew up in the 0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:31.319 pre Internet era where you were staring at the four 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:33.560 walls and I gotta go out. I gotta have to 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:37.719 go here a band, okay, whereas today all the entertainment 0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:39.560 is at home if you go back to the pre 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:41.600 BlackBerry area, so I have to go home and check 0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:44.160 the email. But if I'm sitting at all, I have Netflix, 0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:49.239 I have all these other things. Is there a business? 0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:53.080 Is there an attraction of people going to hear either 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:57.120 unsigned or marginal talent in a live setting? Are you 0:34:57.160 --> 0:34:59.000 asking the question is people want to just go out 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:01.480 for the sake of going out? Well, I'm actually asking 0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:03.480 all of the questions. I want to end your your business. 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:05.680 Had I look at it this way? Okay? It used 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:08.560 to be in the seventies eighties, you went out, certainly 0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.320 on the weekend, the bar had a band, The band 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:15.360 was tended to be covers unless they were a known entity, 0:35:15.440 --> 0:35:18.960 and then there was a sheered, clear delineation between those 0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:22.000 bands and bands that had record deals, where today anybody 0:35:22.040 --> 0:35:24.480 can make and release their music. So if I went 0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:28.040 to a bar now, chances are they would have a DJ. 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:31.440 I want to hear recognizable music as opposed to just 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:35.320 going to hear some unsigned band play their new music. 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:38.719 I don't think there's that strong as desire to do 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.880 that because there's so many other opportunities to entertain yourself. 0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:44.319 I think it's a little bit different now because with 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:49.279 streaming services and where music is so ubiquitous that you 0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:52.480 can find it anywhere, that bands are happening now before 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:55.560 you realize it. So when I first got into the 0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:59.160 concert business, the l a Weekly in San Francisco, the 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:02.040 SF Weekly, and even the Chronicle Sunday Pink section with 0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:03.879 the strip ads of what was playing at the film 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:07.800 wore was hugely important to kind of knowing what was 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:10.120 going on in town. And as you know, as the 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:12.319 smallest room that we ran in San Francisco was the 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:14.600 film where we look at what was playing Slims, we 0:36:14.680 --> 0:36:18.080 played music Hall, Rick shall stop. In the smaller rooms, 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.000 you pay attention. You'd work the guys who booked those 0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:23.320 rooms to what was selling out, what was hot. You 0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:25.400 stay in touch with the agent so you'd have a 0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:29.200 better understanding what then presented the film are. Um, Now 0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:32.600 there's bands that can self promote their way into selling 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:34.799 out a night at the Roxy before most promoters are 0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:37.120 even aware of it. Right, So we'll rent the room 0:36:37.160 --> 0:36:38.800 to anybody who wants to come in and promote a 0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:42.759 show and there, um, for the most part, that doesn't happen. 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:45.000 We have buyers to go in there. But now you 0:36:45.280 --> 0:36:48.000 don't rely on the l a weekly. There's there's a 0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:50.480 headline show for all of these bands that are essentially 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.640 baby bands. They don't need the label support to sell 0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:56.680 five tickets at the Roxy anymore. Okay. Two things. So 0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:59.880 you're saying, at this level the band has a built 0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:02.960 the audience, absolutely, Okay, what if you do not have 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:05.160 a built in audience? Were not as much and we're 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:07.400 not booking in cover bands. But but but but forgiving you, 0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:09.320 I'm just talking about looking at the business at large. 0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:13.279 If someone the old concept of Hey, I'm going out. 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:15.520 I'm going to my local bar. I hear a band, 0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:18.480 they're good, I start to follow them. Does that even exist? 0:37:19.000 --> 0:37:21.480 I think the closest it really comes. You see a 0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:23.040 lot at the House of Blues. They book like a 0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:25.759 lot of Journey cover bands and and you know other 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:27.839 different style cover bands that are kind of like party 0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:29.640 night of rock and roll, and they can do pretty 0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:32.200 good business. Um, we don't do a lot of that 0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:34.240 stuff because we're not just trying to do the turnstyle 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:36.320 business through our club, So we're really focused more on 0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:40.200 actually asking in societal change. I understand the business, but 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.960 do you believe that on a raw percentage basis, fewer 0:37:44.040 --> 0:37:47.600 people are going out in search of marginal live. Marginal's 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:51.200 got its own connotation, marginal live talent as they were before. 0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:53.160 I mean, I think I think they're going out because 0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:54.759 they're going to go see the band they want to see. 0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:56.959 I don't think they're going out just to explore music 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.320 for a night. Okay, so the bands they want to 0:37:59.360 --> 0:38:03.120 see have built they're following online. Do you remember the 0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:05.520 name of anybody you've booked at the Roxy who you 0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:07.640 were unaware of? That comes with their own audience We 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:10.280 sold out two shows with Russ on the on sale 0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:13.640 before anybody knew who Russ was. And Uh, one of 0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:16.400 our guys who books hip hop uh at Golden Voice, 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:19.560 you know, put these shows in there. Same with the 0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:23.359 artist Black. These guys just blew out shows, um, long 0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:28.120 before they were internet sensations, long before they were on 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.879 on radio. And how do your buyers become aware of them? 0:38:30.960 --> 0:38:33.080 We've got a couple. Uh, We've got a lot of 0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:34.839 buyers who just have their ear to the ground. That's 0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:36.480 the new part of you know, the same way that 0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:39.279 when I was twenty one coming out of college, he 0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:41.160 had to work hard to keep your ear to the 0:38:41.160 --> 0:38:42.719 ground and talk to the right people who were in 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:46.880 the scene, and study CMJ and study the that's a 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:49.960 college music journal. That was an old tip sheet and 0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:53.799 twenty years ago, you know, read the European magazines and 0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:55.759 find out what was happening abroad and what you could 0:38:55.760 --> 0:39:00.279 bring over and and now it's SoundCloud and various sites 0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:02.600 that people go to. And Okay, so let's say one 0:39:02.600 --> 0:39:05.640 of these acts plays the Roxy. What is the journey 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:09.600 for them? Well, the journey for them is we try 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:12.920 to help steer them through our venue vertical and and 0:39:12.960 --> 0:39:15.239 get as many as we can in with their We 0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:18.200 also out of Los Angeles, we have you know, Golden 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:22.200 Voice owes and operates Coachella. So you know, ultimately we're 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:24.000 trying to encourage bands to kind of be on the 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.560 path to Coachella. But do you believe any of the 0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:30.959 bands that play in the afternoon, not on the main 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:36.080 stage get a real benefit from playing a festival? A 0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:41.399 festival or Coachella. Let's start with Coachella. I do think 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:44.640 bands get a benefit from playing that. Is that based 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:46.840 on being on the poster or is that based on 0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:50.520 the actual performance? Both make no mistake. It is not 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:53.359 an easy set to play at two o'clock as a 0:39:53.400 --> 0:39:55.239 young band in the desert if it's you know, one 0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:57.120 of those hundreds green days out in the desert. But 0:39:57.920 --> 0:40:00.960 you know, if you can bring it and put in 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:03.760 a notable show, I think where the mouth starts growing 0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:05.759 from there. I won't say that that's the same one 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:08.440 every festival. Can you name two acts that you feel 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.040 benefited from that? Coach call me on the spot. No. 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:14.239 The reason I mentioned is I don't really I can't 0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:16.360 think of a single act that is broken from a 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:20.279 festival doesn't mean they haven't gotten some notoriety, but people say, oh, 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:22.440 you know, I think the festival is almost like the 0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:25.640 new south By Southwest, although you get paid. Okay, Now, 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:27.440 if you have an investment in the act and you 0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:28.840 have the vertical and you're gonna put him in the 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.520 l Ray whatever, that's a different thing. But I have 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:34.520 not seen any man get a buzz at a festival 0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.400 then ultimately become bigger. There's some acts that have general 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:41.160 buzz that have never boken through, like Gary Clark Jr. 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:43.160 And he plays all the festival, but he already had 0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:46.640 visibility by time he played Coachella. Well, look, Stacy V 0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:50.319 who works with Paul, has this phrase of that Paul 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:53.799 has been very good at buying cream bananas, so he 0:40:53.840 --> 0:40:55.960 buys the banana when it's green, and by the time 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.000 Coachella plays, it's yellow. That visibility in the meaning the 0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:02.279 visibilities happened. And a good example that be would have 0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:07.000 been Gautier. He bought Gautier for an incredibly little amount 0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:09.680 of money to play both weekends of Coachella, and then 0:41:09.680 --> 0:41:12.279 the big song happened, and I think at that point 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:14.880 he had the number one single uh in the country. 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:18.320 The tent was packed, so you know, Gautier started happening 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:20.680 despite you know, before Coachella, but he had his eye 0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:23.000 on there, so you know, did he break it? I 0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:26.239 don't know that, Paul. That was a huge record that 0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:30.240 Coachella was sure on top of the cake at best. Correct, 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:34.520 But fast forward that or changed that timeline by three months, 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:38.800 and you'd say he's breaking out of Coachella. Well, let's 0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:40.440 I mean, I don't want to go down because we 0:41:40.480 --> 0:41:44.080 have so many acts in so many years, but let's 0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:47.400 make it different terms of breaking an act today. Well, 0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:49.640 I will also say, but the act was already broken 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:53.960 and known. But the legend of Daft Punk is because 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:56.879 of that set they played at Coachella twelve years ago. Yeah, 0:41:56.920 --> 0:41:59.920 but it was a headlining set. Well, but I'm standing like, 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:03.680 from how big Daft Punk was at that time to 0:42:04.000 --> 0:42:07.680 the general public, how big how big they are today? 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:11.000 I agree totally. Are we at peak festival? Are there 0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:13.439 any more festivals to be built? I think there's lots 0:42:13.440 --> 0:42:15.239 of festivals to be built. I think the question is 0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:17.680 how big they will become? How big in terms of 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:21.000 will they grow or will they intentionally be seen as 0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:24.799 smaller niche festivals. So we just did the One Love 0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:27.480 Festival down in Long Beach at the Queen Mary and 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:30.040 the Great Lawn they have out there. Um did fifteen 0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:33.680 thousand people a day with a mixture of different reggae bands. 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:36.520 And again I would not have guessed that the reggae 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:38.479 scene was the strong enough in this day and age 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:41.279 to have sold out fifteen thousand tickets a day in 0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:43.640 two thousand and eighteen. Just doesn't seem like there's a 0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:45.799 scene for that kind of music. So I think there 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:48.680 are niche festivals. You look at what Tim Sweetwood is 0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:51.960 doing with the Shakingese Festival down in Atlanta, where it's 0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:56.080 all guitar driven rock. There's no hip hop, electronic, other 0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:58.279 genres within there. It's really kind of stays true to 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:01.359 guitar driven rock kind of build. Does he do He's 0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:03.560 you know, I don't know for sure because he doesn't report, 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:05.840 but I'm going to guess he's in the mid twenties. 0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:09.640 With the sales. I don't know if in this day 0:43:09.640 --> 0:43:12.120 and age, with the popularity of rock with youth culture, 0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:14.799 if he's going to get to fifty thou people, but 0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:18.359 if he's making money at twenty five people and he's 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:20.880 servicing the niche. I think that that's the future. If 0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:23.799 he can make money at that, that's really smart. Okay, 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:27.400 let's break it down the fifteen thousand who went to 0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:30.760 the reggae festival. How was the experience? Were you selling 0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:33.319 food and obviously you're always selling food, but how much 0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:36.080 was the band's on stage and how much was the environment. 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:39.319 I think the music is driving that one more because 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:42.200 nobody had been I mean, they the festival took place 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:44.399 once last year, but for the most part, people aren't 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:47.120 going to buy into the specific experience, So I think 0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:50.680 that is being more musically driven. You know, Coachella is 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:56.080 more about the all companies experience Coachella, Lolla BLUSA and 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:59.200 maybe Austin city limits and maybe outside the lands which 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.319 those are established, those of go out Forever Coachella, the 0:44:02.360 --> 0:44:05.240 brand name being the progenitor of the Granddaddy Lalla Blues 0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:08.600 are the great location in Chicago. Once we move from 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:13.840 those four locations at that level, okay, where you're trying 0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:17.360 to get, certainly in access of fifty people a day, 0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:21.080 how many can our countries support. I think we're approaching 0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:24.880 the plateau, right and the fact that I'm generally speaking, 0:44:24.920 --> 0:44:27.920 let's leave Cogella a little bit aside, because it's really 0:44:27.960 --> 0:44:31.600 kind of unique. But generally speaking, all of these festivals 0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:35.160 have the same headliners now, so it used to be 0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:38.600 you had to travel cross country to have the experience. 0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:41.680 Now it's coming closer to you. I'd agree with it, 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:45.279 but I put the distinction as so Outside Lands is 0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:48.680 an incredible experience, The site itself is incredible. Coachell is 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:52.279 an incredible experience, Lalla Blues is an incredible experience in 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:56.120 that park, Austin city limits, Austin an incredible party town, 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.520 Zilka Park is amazing. But past that, you know, like Bonnaroo, 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:01.200 I think it's ruggling a little bit because it's a 0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:04.719 pure camping festival and in the heat and Tennessee, Um, 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:07.359 maybe it's lost a little bit of its identity as 0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:09.359 a camping festival and it's been a little bit up 0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:11.160 and down the last couple of years. Doesn't mean it's 0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:13.880 by means in the in the toilet are going away. 0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:16.320 I think there's a huge following for Bonnaroo, but what 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:19.960 does it stand for and is the site special? Uh? 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:23.960 You look at one of my favorite festivals, his Electric Forests, 0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:27.280 which a company that a g owns Madison House Productions. 0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:31.719 Madison House Presents produces in partnership with the Soomniac. So 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:37.680 that one is up in uh up in uh Ro Rothberry, Michigan, 0:45:37.840 --> 0:45:40.080 and I think is one of the most unique festivals 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:43.720 presented in America today. It's electronic music meets jam bands, 0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:46.600 so string, cheese and based nectar up there. But it 0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:51.080 is so experiential in terms of what goes on in 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:53.439 the forest because the for those who haven't been, it's 0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:56.920 a festival that has three or four stages scattered throughout 0:45:56.960 --> 0:45:59.040 the site that is intermixed with a lot of trees 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.880 and forestry there. So it's you're you're really weaving in 0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:04.839 and out of an experience all day. And for me 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:06.960 when I go there, it's almost like, oh, there's a 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:09.680 there's bands playing. It's so much fun to wander in. 0:46:10.280 --> 0:46:12.720 Let's see the art that Jeremy Stein, who who produces 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:16.200 the festival, puts in every year. He brings in you know, 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:18.439 Carni traders who have like you know, I could take 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:20.960 my cell phone and you know leave with a bow 0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:23.160 and arrow if I want to like trade my way 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:26.600 through the the trading shop the trading post shop and 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.920 he is producing an experience every Saturday night as the 0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:33.759 Pittical Moment with string cheese that is fireworks and acrobats 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:37.520 and it's really immersive for the weekend. So you know, 0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:40.919 if you're into that kind of camping festival, that's that's 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:42.719 a festival that's growing. You know, we've gone for one 0:46:42.719 --> 0:46:44.960 weekend selling out a month in advance to adding a 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:47.600 second weekend. So I do think that there's growth. But 0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:49.759 I think you have to really stand for something. I 0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:51.440 think your site has to be great. I think the 0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:54.480 experience has to be great. Um, otherwise it's going to 0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:57.400 be harder to achieve the scale to get up to 0:46:57.440 --> 0:47:00.520 where kind of these you know, highly law at festivals. 0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:04.640 Let's go back to Bonaru. Did Bonaro lose cashe and 0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:07.400 audience because it muddied the water of what it was 0:47:07.440 --> 0:47:10.399 about it? Originally it was a jam band festival, then 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:13.719 it just became another festival with bands in Tennessee, It's 0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:17.920 possible they pivoted from jam bands pretty early on to 0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:20.280 I mean, if you're gonna be a jam band festival, 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:23.440 the talent pool is pretty shallow of headliners that can 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:27.160 really drive people to your festival. So I think Bonro 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:29.799 did a good job of pivoting into general use. I think, 0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:32.480 but when they were at their height, there was nothing 0:47:32.520 --> 0:47:35.200 else throughout the south there, and now there's so much more. 0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:38.640 You've got you know, Okachobes, and you've got the Hangout 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:41.800 Festival down in Atlanta, You've got uh down to the 0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:45.560 Gulf Shores, You've got Shaking Knees and Atlanta, you've got 0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:47.640 you know, festivals to the north of you know, gov 0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:51.399 Ball and Firefly, and there's stuff litter all over, so 0:47:51.680 --> 0:47:53.760 you know, you're competing for a lot more So how 0:47:53.920 --> 0:47:57.799 does Bonnaro distinguish itself as a festival from these other things? 0:47:57.800 --> 0:47:59.920 Because Chance the Rapper, you know, is an act the 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:02.520 people will point to play a lot of festivals. Last year, 0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:04.120 you know, Florence and the Machine had played a lot 0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:05.960 of festivals. Outcast play a lot of festivals. L c 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:08.399 D shows up on a lot of festivals. So you're 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:10.880 right and that these bands are playing a circuit of 0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:14.040 festivals and it's great, but doesn't mean the festival experience 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:16.880 can't be great. So okay, So as we move forward, 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:19.160 is it going to be a hundred thousand people in 0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:21.600 a field seeing headliners, or is it going to be 0:48:21.640 --> 0:48:26.400 more about each festival is branded based on the experience. Well, 0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:28.960 I think the bigger ones are going to be all 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:31.319 about the experience, and they're gonna have to be great 0:48:31.400 --> 0:48:34.439 musically and have to stand for something, but they're also 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:36.480 going to have to have a great experience to kind 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.560 of sustain at that hundred thousand person level, because if 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:42.200 you're just talking about a band selling a hundred thousand tickets, 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:44.920 you're really talking about stadium shows, right, I'm not talking 0:48:44.920 --> 0:48:47.600 about that. Let's go back to the festival. I remember 0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:50.879 this is probably six or seven years ago. Headliner night 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:55.200 to at Coachella was Radiohead. They came, they brought their 0:48:55.239 --> 0:48:57.800 arena show, which means it's small for an audience of 0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:01.600 sixty people, and they host to audience. Everybody was going 0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:05.600 to the Sahara tent for the electronic music, dance music, 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:10.880 ETCETERA question becomes in the festival experience. How important is 0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:14.800 the DJ the electronic music experience depends on your festival, 0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:18.279 I suppose. I mean, there's no doubt that electronic music 0:49:18.400 --> 0:49:22.560 is incredibly popular at Coachella. But you know, back going 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.000 back to my reference of Timmis Sweetwood. It well, let's 0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:27.600 put it this way there, Coachella and I only focused 0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:31.239 on this primarily because it's your company. Uh. Coachella had 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:35.279 a long history of reuniting legendary rock bands. So in 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:38.080 the last last year, in this year, there seems to 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:41.680 be a pivot to more modern acts. So the question 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:46.160 would be, have we seen the sunset on festivals of 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:50.040 old acts and is it really now about present day acts? Okay, 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:52.480 so in the last three years, a C d C 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:55.840 and Guns and Rose's headline coach Ella, Yes, but that 0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:59.359 was two years ago. Last year, Uh, And my point, 0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:01.080 you know, most of the eventional wisdom that A C 0:50:01.200 --> 0:50:04.399 d C was a bust, and when you go last 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:07.800 year it ended up being Gaga, and this year it's Beyonce. 0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:10.640 That's a far cry from A C d C and 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:12.920 Guns and Roses. So you're in a very short period 0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:15.319 of time there have been rock bands headlining. No, I 0:50:15.360 --> 0:50:18.080 believe you know, I discussed this when you discussed with Paul. 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:19.920 You know, I believe two or three years ago, two 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:23.400 years ago, Bieber should have been the headliner, and everybody said, no, 0:50:23.520 --> 0:50:25.520 that's crazy. I think if you were willing to do 0:50:25.560 --> 0:50:26.759 it and I said, hey, Biber is gonna be the 0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:29.120 headline today. It would be a matter of negotiating the money. 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:31.359 I think they look the interesting part in the tricky part, 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.000 and this is certainly don't speak for Paul because he's 0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:37.279 done incredible job curating Coachella for twenty years. But also 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:40.160 Coachella sells out with no lineup announced. But if you 0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:42.280 don't do a good job every year and it becomes stale, 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:44.520 people will move on. He's you know, we're still selling 0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:46.279 out in advantage. But let's not make it about coach. 0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:48.359 Let's just make it about a change of the audience. Sure. 0:50:48.480 --> 0:50:50.600 I think that the important part to focus on air 0:50:50.680 --> 0:50:52.920 is that as hip hop has become more popular and 0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:56.320 pop has become more popular because music is so ubiquitous 0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:57.759 an easy to get hold of, like a pop act 0:50:57.800 --> 0:50:59.200 as a hip hop act, and hip hop act could 0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:02.080 be a pop act there collaborating together. The boundaries between 0:51:02.200 --> 0:51:06.000 genre are much more gray now than they were, But 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:08.960 it's very different from reuniting an act from the sixties, 0:51:08.960 --> 0:51:12.160 seventies or eighties. It seems like there's a giant transition 0:51:12.560 --> 0:51:16.120 between the heritage acts and the acts of now, and 0:51:16.160 --> 0:51:19.480 that this is the summer when the festival. People are saying, no, 0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:21.400 if you're an old act, you can play the areena, 0:51:21.440 --> 0:51:23.279 you can play your own audience. But it comes to 0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:25.360 the festival, it's a younger audience and they want to 0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:28.279 see these younger acts, whether they be hip hop or pop. Well, 0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:30.160 there's no doubt. I mean, I don't know if there's 0:51:30.160 --> 0:51:32.960 as much of an appreciation for some of the classic 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:36.040 rock stuff from what's generally called it the millennial generation 0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:38.879 as previous generations before that. You know, I mean even 0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:41.880 Radioheads a classic rock band at Coachella, right, But you know, 0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:46.040 relatively recent Radiohead and Coldplay and Dave Matthews Beings were 0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:48.040 the last bms to break through on v H one 0:51:48.280 --> 0:51:50.799 for the whole thing blew apart. They were there. They 0:51:50.840 --> 0:51:53.560 were beneficiaries of the monoculture. But let's let's switch gears 0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:56.160 a little bit more. Okay, so I'm a concert goer, 0:51:56.560 --> 0:52:02.719 let's explain the economics of the con business generally speaking, 0:52:02.800 --> 0:52:05.160 or Michael Rapino's head of Live Nation, he would say, 0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:08.720 if I don't pay the act, somebody else will. There's 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:12.320 always someone who will pony up without money a casino 0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:16.120 or something. Do you agree with that, Yes, okay. They 0:52:16.120 --> 0:52:19.640 will also say that generally speaking, once we get to 0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:22.360 a name talent, let's not talk about the bands that 0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:25.080 are selling the roxy or even playing these clubs. But 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:28.960 once you're getting to an arena level act that generally speaking, 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:33.440 all of the money for the ticket revenue meaning not 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:36.200 the not the up charges, but the ticket revenue is 0:52:36.280 --> 0:52:39.520 essentially going to the act. Correct. Okay, So explain the 0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:42.160 economics to my audience, because you obviously have a business. 0:52:42.360 --> 0:52:45.160 We're making money, right, I guess as a general statement, 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:47.799 the bigger the act is getting the more of the 0:52:47.840 --> 0:52:50.680 lion's share of the ticket revenue they can command and 0:52:50.960 --> 0:52:53.080 a deal with either a SARTA Live Nation or any 0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:56.360 promoter throughout the world. Promoters are making their money if 0:52:56.400 --> 0:52:59.160 they own an operative venue off of peanuts, popcorn and 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:01.880 parking for them at part um. If we don't own venues, 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:04.480 we try to make deals that scale up with artists, 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:08.680 so we produce a Rolling Stones tour worldwide. So scaling 0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:11.320 up meaning what uh I mean? We're we want to 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:13.160 do all the dates with a band as opposed to 0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:17.319 the traditional way. Um twenty years ago, was maybe even 0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:20.480 thirty years ago. Is that acts were sold more market 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:22.960 by market to the local promoter by an agent. And 0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:25.640 in this day and age of concerts, most artists sell 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:29.000 tours that are arena size a bigger to a single 0:53:29.040 --> 0:53:33.560 promoter who produced their tours uh nationally or internationally. So 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:37.200 if you're gonna make less per show on doing an 0:53:37.280 --> 0:53:40.040 artist because of the amount of money that the artist commands, 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:42.760 you want to do more shows to grow your business 0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:45.279 and reach your budget every year. Let's assume you have 0:53:45.400 --> 0:53:48.719 a international tour with one of these acts, you pay 0:53:48.760 --> 0:53:51.320 them a lump sum such that if there's some acts 0:53:51.360 --> 0:53:54.960 some dates that are very successful, others that are marginal losers, 0:53:55.160 --> 0:53:57.120 it all comes out in the wash. I think every 0:53:57.200 --> 0:53:59.440 company has got their own model only I think Live 0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:02.200 Nations of a company and is very revenue driven. We're 0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:04.560 maybe a bit more bottom line driven as a company. 0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:07.040 You know, we approach everything at a g as can 0:54:07.080 --> 0:54:08.879 we make money on this act. I don't think we're 0:54:08.960 --> 0:54:11.319 necessarily looking at anything coming out in the wash. But 0:54:11.680 --> 0:54:14.319 by no, make no mistake, we don't win on every 0:54:14.320 --> 0:54:16.279 show that we go ahead and book. I mean it's 0:54:16.640 --> 0:54:18.600 very much a risk business and it takes a big 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:21.560 stack of chips to sit at the poker table on 0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:23.919 those games. But I say let's do them. I'm coming, 0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:26.400 I'm act X, and I make a deal with you 0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:29.480 for fifty million dollars. You're gonna pay me that fifty 0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:33.279 million dollars and then a g Some some dates maybe 0:54:33.360 --> 0:54:36.160 do better than others. Correct. If you own the building, 0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:39.120 you have all the concessions, the parking, etcetera, etcetera. If 0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:42.319 you don't own the building, explain to my audience how 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:45.600 the ticketing fee revenue is split up. So we'll work 0:54:45.600 --> 0:54:48.000 with the artist to set the ticket fee structure and 0:54:48.040 --> 0:54:50.680 what tickets are ultimately going to cost our function of 0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:52.920 you know, what the artist is trying to make, What 0:54:53.040 --> 0:54:55.480 it costs to operate the arena on a given night, 0:54:55.640 --> 0:55:00.319 what's marketing, backstage catering, security, stage hands, and so forth. 0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:03.239 So you're trying to generate a certain amount after you 0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:06.839 pay off all those expenses, and you know, grows as 0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:08.600 much as as much money as you can to make 0:55:08.640 --> 0:55:10.680 as much money that you can split up with the artist. 0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:13.280 If you do a good job with it, here's money 0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:15.480 to split up and everybody's making money. If you do 0:55:15.520 --> 0:55:18.080 a bad job of it, you've guaranteed an artists a 0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:20.520 floor on that deal, and you're gonna be paying them 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:23.600 whenever you guaranteed them and come up short for the night. Okay, 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:25.759 let's just say a ticket is a hundred dollars and 0:55:25.800 --> 0:55:29.680 there's twenty five dollars in fees. Where might those fees go? Well, 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:32.360 the fees go depend on the ticketing companies. Some buildings 0:55:32.400 --> 0:55:35.560 own their own ticketing companies. Ticketmaster will make deals with 0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:38.560 buildings where they will give them advances or help them 0:55:38.560 --> 0:55:42.040 pay for capital projects, and in terms of keeping more 0:55:42.040 --> 0:55:44.319 of the fee themselves, they'll rebate it to the to 0:55:44.360 --> 0:55:47.440 the building. Sometimes the building will then incentivize either the 0:55:47.520 --> 0:55:49.319 artist or the promoter to come there with some of 0:55:49.360 --> 0:55:51.920 those fees. It's just a different source of revenue that 0:55:52.120 --> 0:55:56.120 comes into the game of how deals are made. Okay, 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:59.280 but generally speaking, that's where the profit is the promoter 0:55:59.640 --> 0:56:04.800 and then extra of the fees oftentimes yes, but uh, 0:56:05.040 --> 0:56:07.400 but as you're talking about huge grosses and if you 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:09.759 do uh, you know, we did a really successful tour 0:56:09.800 --> 0:56:13.279 with Holland Oates and Tiers for Fears last year. There 0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:17.120 was there was plenty of profit beyond ticketing fees with 0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:19.000 the shows. Every show has made money at the end 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:20.880 of the day. And in those deals, well, you do 0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:23.799 an international tour, national tour, there's a guarantee. Is there 0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:26.000 also a percentage of upside? Correct? They get a split 0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:27.960 at the back. Okay, let's go there, You and me. 0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:30.160 You may or may not remember we're famous as a manager. 0:56:30.200 --> 0:56:34.640 Bruce Allen and Bruce Allen manages, amongst other people, Michael 0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:38.000 Bubley and Brian Adams. He's based out of Vancouver. This 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:40.839 happened to be Canadian Acts. And he said, hey, Bob, 0:56:40.880 --> 0:56:43.319 I'm always and Bruce a very smart guy. And Bruce said, 0:56:43.320 --> 0:56:47.000 I'm trying something. I'm putting out Brian Adams with uh, 0:56:47.800 --> 0:56:50.680 what's his name? Did uh? One bourbon, one Scotch and 0:56:50.719 --> 0:56:53.040 one beer? Church there? Okay, right, and you said it's 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:56.560 not gonna work. Okay, What works and what doesn't work. 0:56:56.680 --> 0:57:01.399 That's the intangible of being a successful concert promoter. I'll 0:57:01.400 --> 0:57:03.279 go back to the hollow notes. Teers refers to her 0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:07.040 when that opportunity came across my desk, I looked at it, 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:09.799 and when it came across you was already hollow, notatees 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:12.080 and tears for fears. The bands were talking they wanted 0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:14.000 to go out and to her. Their agent was out 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:17.720 shopping the tour and discussing it with people, and I 0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:21.680 was doing my homework. When the opportunity came up. We 0:57:21.800 --> 0:57:24.640 talked internally about what we thought we could sell, did 0:57:24.680 --> 0:57:27.080 some homework in various markets. Uh, And there was a 0:57:27.160 --> 0:57:29.120 lot of people sitting on the fence, you know, like 0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:31.920 it's it's not very hard to like identify that Beyonce 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:33.520 is going to sell a lot of tickets for their 0:57:33.560 --> 0:57:38.200 It's how how you can manipulate and maximize the deal 0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:41.680 for the artist and to get earnest she's going to 0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:44.000 do the business. Everybody knows Beyonce is gonna sell tickets 0:57:44.480 --> 0:57:46.600 on hollow notes and tears for fears. It was a 0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:49.040 bit more of a question of it was didn't seem 0:57:49.080 --> 0:57:51.800 like an automatic to everybody at first. So if they 0:57:51.880 --> 0:57:54.760 say up front if they wanted to play big rooms, yes, 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:56.560 they were clear they wanted to go out and do arenas, 0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:58.360 and you know, then they had a price tag of 0:57:58.440 --> 0:58:01.160 what they were looking for. And in a competitive marketplace, 0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:02.720 you can't just assume that the other guys are going 0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:04.640 to pass and you can low ball your way into 0:58:04.640 --> 0:58:07.600 a deal. So we have to really do your research 0:58:07.640 --> 0:58:09.160 and feel confident about the bet that you're going to 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:13.160 put down. Okay, so walk us through the experience. So 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.880 we we threw our hat in the ring. Live Nation 0:58:15.920 --> 0:58:18.160 had done the previous tour with Hollow notatees in the amphitheaters, 0:58:18.200 --> 0:58:19.840 but it was a bit of a different model, lower 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:22.000 ticket price, it wasn't grossing as high. Going into the 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:24.480 arenas can come with more risk because they tend to 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:27.919 be more expensive to produce the shows. Um, we went 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:29.320 ahead and made the bid and came out on the 0:58:29.400 --> 0:58:32.240 right side of getting the deal. Um. At that point 0:58:32.280 --> 0:58:36.040 I jumped in with Hollow Notates manager and and Tears 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:39.000 and Fierce manager and went ahead and got the marketing 0:58:39.000 --> 0:58:42.840 plan together and launched that tour and ultimately people reacted 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:44.840 well to the chemistry of the package. I mean, Hollow 0:58:44.920 --> 0:58:49.960 Notates three years ago was more or less playing theaters. Um, 0:58:50.120 --> 0:58:52.880 and that would be how many tickets, uh, you know, 0:58:53.040 --> 0:58:54.800 I think they were playing anywhere from two to four 0:58:54.840 --> 0:58:57.280 thousand seat venues. And you know, they had a success 0:58:57.280 --> 0:59:01.000 in the circuit. Um and they changed agencies to Pete 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.520 pop Lardo at a g I and Pete had a 0:59:03.520 --> 0:59:05.320 bit more vision of how to get these guys back 0:59:05.320 --> 0:59:08.720 because they were very successful arena band in their day. Um. 0:59:08.800 --> 0:59:11.920 He grew them uh and and really pushed forward to 0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:14.320 push them into the amphitheaters to get them in front 0:59:14.360 --> 0:59:16.440 of more people. I think they went out with Sharon 0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:19.160 Jones and the Dap Kings and Trombo and Shorty that year. 0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:23.240 Good package did business, not huge grosses um, but it 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:25.840 was ultimately trying to get them back into an arena 0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:29.760 level production and performance. I think that's what the band 0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:31.840 ultimately wanted to get to. It's what he pitched them on. 0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:34.200 So they came up with the Tears for Fears package, uh, 0:59:34.400 --> 0:59:37.280 and that was I think that was Pete's ideas or 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:41.040 Jonathan's who manages uh Hollow Notes. So they had been 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:43.080 discussing it already when it came to me, and then 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:46.000 when the opportunity came to us, we like the package, 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:48.800 made the bet um and then worked really closely with 0:59:48.840 --> 0:59:50.919 the Hollow Notes camp and teers Fers and like, how 0:59:50.920 --> 0:59:53.480 can we maximize and promote this and launch this big 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:56.120 and let everybody know it's coming because neither Neat well 0:59:56.400 --> 0:59:58.280 teers re Fiers hasn't had music out there still making 0:59:58.320 --> 1:00:00.360 new music hollow notes is not making the USI so 1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:03.400 you really have to kind of help create the story. Uh. 1:00:03.440 --> 1:00:06.400 And Jonathan is a former PR guy and is a 1:00:06.440 --> 1:00:08.400 great partner in terms of getting the word out and 1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:10.760 made sure John and Darrel were on the phone doing 1:00:10.800 --> 1:00:14.200 phoners in every city and oh yeah they were out 1:00:14.200 --> 1:00:16.880 they were out there working at how much was late 1:00:16.960 --> 1:00:19.600 you know buying walk up business on that tour? Uh? 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:21.680 You know what, we had a good start and slow 1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:23.680 and steady wins the race, you know was you know, 1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:26.560 you know, a big night on that tour was two 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:28.400 or three d tickets to night a show, which is 1:00:28.440 --> 1:00:30.680 not good. I mean it's not bad by any means. 1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:32.960 It's not you know, phenomenal based off of what some 1:00:33.320 --> 1:00:36.360 bands can sell day of but uh, but you know, 1:00:36.400 --> 1:00:38.400 I think we averaged close to eleven thousand tickets a 1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:40.040 show on that tour and it was so what do 1:00:40.120 --> 1:00:45.120 we learn ultimately good packaging? Look, a classic rock is 1:00:45.160 --> 1:00:49.400 hot right now? I mean hasn't it always been hot? No? No, no, 1:00:49.600 --> 1:00:52.560 I mean rewind ten years and you'd find more spotty 1:00:52.600 --> 1:00:55.160 classic rock tours out there, you know, wasn't you know, 1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:58.120 Let's put this way, Tom Petty's Uh tour that he 1:00:58.160 --> 1:01:01.360 did right this past year before passed on. It was 1:01:01.400 --> 1:01:03.800 a home run. Um, he was making more money than 1:01:03.840 --> 1:01:05.600 he's ever made in his career before. But you could 1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:09.480 rewind back to two thousand to two thousand and ten 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:12.080 and Petty's businesses up and down and he'd have good years, 1:01:12.160 --> 1:01:14.480 bad years depends on how far he was away, how 1:01:14.480 --> 1:01:19.800 long it was away. Thanks for listening to the Bob 1:01:19.880 --> 1:01:23.520 Left Sets podcast. I hope you're enjoying the episode so far. 1:01:24.000 --> 1:01:26.280 There's only so much I can get into a podcast. 1:01:26.480 --> 1:01:28.640 But if you simply can't get enough and want to 1:01:28.640 --> 1:01:30.480 know more of my thoughts on the future of the 1:01:30.560 --> 1:01:34.440 music industry, technology and current events, you'll want to subscribe 1:01:34.480 --> 1:01:37.680 to my newsletter. Now I'm not shameless promotion. Let's dive 1:01:37.760 --> 1:01:42.960 back into the interviews. Let's go back. If you look 1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:46.200 at the amphitheater business, there are certain acts that go 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:49.800 every year. Def Leppard goes every year, Sticks goes every year. 1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:53.760 How does that work? Well, the country acts to the 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:57.560 country is a different business. Let's start with these heritage acts. 1:01:57.680 --> 1:02:00.200 They're not making new music to anybody's listening to were 1:02:00.480 --> 1:02:05.920 very hardcore fans. Why are people going. I think the nostalgia, 1:02:05.920 --> 1:02:08.920 I mean, but every year, I don't know if that 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:11.440 they're going every year. I guess some of these juggle 1:02:11.480 --> 1:02:13.760 if they change an act this year it's Aureo Speedwagon 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:16.280 on I mean, I mean literally Deaf Leppard, I believe 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:19.200 has been out every year. Sticks is absolutely out every year, 1:02:19.560 --> 1:02:22.240 and if they get it packaged right, it works. You know. 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.280 The first big one that came out like this was 1:02:25.320 --> 1:02:30.240 Journey def Leopard years ago toured together and I was 1:02:30.280 --> 1:02:32.480 at Live Nation then and everybody was a little wary 1:02:32.760 --> 1:02:35.000 of how it was going to do, but everybody poning 1:02:35.120 --> 1:02:38.040 up the money um HK managed the act and drove 1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:39.520 a hard deal. So it was you know, it wasn't 1:02:39.560 --> 1:02:42.520 the cheapest show um to get at the time, but 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:47.040 it did phenomenal business. Outperformed everybody's expectations, basically sold out 1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:49.640 every amphitheater in the country that summer, and I really 1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:52.840 think that kicked off the era of classic rock packaging. 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:55.520 UM So you're seeing a lot more packaging and they're 1:02:55.560 --> 1:02:58.680 doing they're being far more aggressive about getting people out 1:02:58.720 --> 1:03:01.600 for those summertime shows that the amphitheaters now Okay, but 1:03:01.680 --> 1:03:05.120 now that package is playing stadiums. It is what do 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:08.160 you predict there? I don't know how people. I mean, 1:03:08.320 --> 1:03:10.360 they just went out last summer and did really well 1:03:10.360 --> 1:03:12.320 in the amphitheaters and business was huge. I don't I 1:03:12.320 --> 1:03:15.120 haven't paid too close to attention to how many stadiums 1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:18.520 they're playing this summer, but it's a big bet. Stadium 1:03:18.520 --> 1:03:20.520 aren't cheap to produce that does that audience want to 1:03:20.560 --> 1:03:25.240 go to the stadium. My opinion is I don't think 1:03:25.280 --> 1:03:28.320 that the core classic rock audience wants to go to 1:03:28.400 --> 1:03:30.640 a stadium. They'll go to a stadium for big events. 1:03:30.880 --> 1:03:33.320 But if you give them their Druggs, the smaller the 1:03:33.400 --> 1:03:35.400 venue the better to them, because everybody wants to buy 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:37.280 a seat close up. They want They don't want to 1:03:37.280 --> 1:03:40.440 deal with traffic and whatnot. But if package correctly and 1:03:40.480 --> 1:03:43.440 you create enough excitement, you know, stadiums have a big 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:46.160 communal feel to them and it can be done. You know, 1:03:46.240 --> 1:03:48.840 you can drive people there. Okay, so where are we going? 1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:53.120 It used to be five or six years ago pop 1:03:53.160 --> 1:03:54.960 acts would have a number one record. They play the 1:03:54.960 --> 1:03:58.480 House of Blues. Now pop acts play arenas. In addition, 1:03:58.560 --> 1:04:02.400 hip hop not only sells arenas, it sells festivals. Are 1:04:02.400 --> 1:04:05.520 we at a tipping point here? Yeah? Well, I think 1:04:05.560 --> 1:04:08.120 everything is more accelerated right There. Used to be much 1:04:08.120 --> 1:04:10.800 more of a developmental path where an artist might play 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:13.600 a club to start, and then play a venue like 1:04:13.640 --> 1:04:15.480 the Novo or the will Turn, work up to the 1:04:15.520 --> 1:04:18.880 Greek and then be playing Staples Center, form Hollywood bol 1:04:18.920 --> 1:04:22.680 or something like that Los Angeles plays. Now you're seeing 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:27.120 bands that are accelerating so fast they skip right past 1:04:27.520 --> 1:04:30.680 the initial steps. So they might play a club underplay 1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:32.760 to launch, and then it gets so big so fast, 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:37.320 you're going right into arenas, which um can work sometimes 1:04:37.320 --> 1:04:41.600 and maybe not. Okay, you know, if you go back 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:45.320 to the MTV era, there was the uh, the cliche 1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:47.720 that yes, MTV will blast you to the moon, but 1:04:47.800 --> 1:04:51.720 you'll fall back just that fast. So these acts play 1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:54.320 arenas very soon. Do you think that hurts the longevity 1:04:54.320 --> 1:04:59.000 of their career? Not if they keep putting out good music. Well, 1:04:59.000 --> 1:05:01.320 it's more competitive than ever. But let's you know, let's 1:05:01.320 --> 1:05:04.440 segue to the hip hop acts, because they put out 1:05:04.480 --> 1:05:07.800 a lot of product and they're continuing to go. So 1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:09.400 what how do you envision the future of the hip 1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:12.160 hop business? I think it's going to continue. I mean, look, 1:05:12.520 --> 1:05:16.360 Spotify and streaming services have made this a singles culture, right, 1:05:16.400 --> 1:05:17.920 So if you look at an act like they're not 1:05:18.120 --> 1:05:21.200 hip hop, but the Chain Smokers, they their success is 1:05:21.200 --> 1:05:24.160 putting out a series of singles. Um. To a large degree, 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:27.360 Drake is about putting out a series of singles. UM. 1:05:27.400 --> 1:05:31.200 So it's timing those announcements and and what their plan 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:37.640 is to promote whatever brand artist or group together and 1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:40.800 and what's the strategy for this cycle of touring, this 1:05:40.920 --> 1:05:43.320 cycle of music. And I don't think I think the 1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:45.680 album has become irrelevant. I don't think you know, call 1:05:45.800 --> 1:05:49.000 kids today, but kids today don't really care about your album. 1:05:49.080 --> 1:05:52.280 They care about the songs. So but let's say you're 1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:54.600 an act that has a couple of songs. Can you 1:05:54.640 --> 1:05:56.800 then and there's a huge bus, can you then sell 1:05:56.840 --> 1:06:00.200 an arena? It reacts a little bit different. But so 1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:02.640 that's reading the tea leaves. You gotta read how hot 1:06:02.680 --> 1:06:05.000 something is and will people make the bet on you? 1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:07.000 And then there's playing promoters will make the bet, But 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:09.320 you have to kind of understand how hot you are. 1:06:09.800 --> 1:06:13.000 You're looking at a young artist like Khalid who's gone 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:16.360 from barely playing clubs and theaters right now too. He's 1:06:16.400 --> 1:06:19.520 out doing amphitheaters this summer, UH for Live Nation with 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:22.800 a package which is, you know, really ambitious. But he's 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:26.000 got a huge following already and the kids are are 1:06:26.080 --> 1:06:28.760 chasing him. So he may have success the summer. I 1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:31.720 bet you he will. Um, but you know what does 1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:33.680 that mean for the future. I think he's got to 1:06:33.720 --> 1:06:35.840 come back with more good music if he wants to sustain. 1:06:36.120 --> 1:06:39.480 But you say the album is irrelevant, someone will say 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:41.479 there's a monster hit song. I'll go to the show 1:06:41.560 --> 1:06:43.960 just to hear that monster HITNG think so yeah, I 1:06:44.000 --> 1:06:46.280 think it takes a few monster hit songs to get 1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:49.760 to an arena level success. But I don't I don't 1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:51.840 think anybody's were like, oh man, I really hope they're 1:06:51.840 --> 1:06:55.560 playing track seven. Okay, so then let's go back. You 1:06:55.600 --> 1:06:57.959 talk about doing these tours with the top line acts 1:06:58.000 --> 1:07:01.680 all encompassing. Okay, we make an international or national deal, 1:07:02.840 --> 1:07:04.920 Why does that act be the major depending on who 1:07:04.960 --> 1:07:08.320 their manager is and what other services. I think if 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:10.600 you look at what if you talk to Geiger at 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:15.040 William Morris there putting together deals with that artist that 1:07:15.200 --> 1:07:18.000 encompassed so much more than just the live experience, right, 1:07:18.040 --> 1:07:21.600 So they're tying in sponsorship brands into the live experience, 1:07:21.720 --> 1:07:24.440 or tying in movie deals not necessarily to the live 1:07:24.480 --> 1:07:28.680 experience with their tying the movie deals and potentially um 1:07:28.800 --> 1:07:32.040 brand launches, integrating all of these things into their total 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.200 relationship with the artists. So I think that as the 1:07:35.360 --> 1:07:40.440 artists get bigger and bigger and command more revenue and 1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:43.680 business lines, that that if the agencies are servicing them all, 1:07:43.720 --> 1:07:47.320 they have a very important value in the equation. And 1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:50.520 since you brought up sponsorship, how big is sponsorship part 1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:53.360 of promotion for a g Oh, it's a big part 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:55.960 of what we do. It's it really drives our venue platforms, 1:07:56.000 --> 1:07:59.080 which allows us to be aggressive with these that we 1:07:59.120 --> 1:08:01.040 pay artists. So yeah, it's a big part of our business. 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:04.400 How about any tour where you are not uh, well 1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:07.040 you don't own all the buildings, will you have? Will 1:08:07.080 --> 1:08:10.280 you put together a sponsorship deal for that tour? We 1:08:10.360 --> 1:08:12.600 try to. It depends on, you know, can we find 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:15.040 the right artists that's excuse me, the right sponsor that's 1:08:15.040 --> 1:08:17.840 suitable to the artists, and while the artists accept it, 1:08:17.920 --> 1:08:21.000 and can we get a deal put together in time 1:08:21.040 --> 1:08:24.240 to kind of make it worthwhile to take the cash 1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:25.679 and do the tour. I mean a lot of times 1:08:25.680 --> 1:08:29.280 tours come together not last minute, but shortly before they 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.799 go ahead and launch the on sale cycle. So sometimes 1:08:32.840 --> 1:08:35.200 brands are spending their money long before and acts decided, 1:08:35.400 --> 1:08:37.599 you know, what their tour plan is. So what's going 1:08:37.600 --> 1:08:40.080 on with the country business, because these country acts are 1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:41.640 out every year and some of the business got a 1:08:41.640 --> 1:08:43.559 little bit soft. Look, a lot of the artists have 1:08:43.600 --> 1:08:46.000 been out doing the same thing for years and years 1:08:46.000 --> 1:08:48.360 and years, and it's starting to wane a little bit. 1:08:48.439 --> 1:08:50.920 But I just think you also went from you know, 1:08:50.960 --> 1:08:52.559 when I was at Live Nation probably left in two 1:08:52.560 --> 1:08:56.680 thousand and eight, there was probably eight country headliners. I 1:08:56.720 --> 1:08:59.200 think the country music has blown up so much more. 1:08:59.240 --> 1:09:02.840 There's far more headliners out there, and there's competing for 1:09:03.720 --> 1:09:05.880 not the same dollar. I think the dollar has grown. 1:09:05.880 --> 1:09:08.559 The audience has grown some, but it's not exponentially grown 1:09:08.960 --> 1:09:10.640 with the with the number of acts out in the 1:09:10.640 --> 1:09:13.800 country scene. So the artists that you know haven't been 1:09:13.840 --> 1:09:16.120 putting out interesting music or have a story to tell 1:09:16.479 --> 1:09:19.200 might be feeling might be feeling it at the box 1:09:19.200 --> 1:09:21.400 office when they're not selling quite as much as opposed 1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:24.480 to a guy like Stapleton, who has been a phenomenon 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:26.120 in the last couple of years. And just you know, 1:09:26.240 --> 1:09:29.200 here's a guy who doesn't fit the mold of country 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:32.519 music of the last few years. He's you know, Luke 1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:35.479 Bryan's essentially a pop act right and has pop appeal 1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:38.160 and whether you want to calm you know, bon Jovi 1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:40.439 style to what you know bon Jovi was, to Rocky 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:43.160 is the country. Um, those are all great things and 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:46.479 that service a certain audience and it's scales up nicely. Uh. 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:50.400 Stapleton was the singer songwriter and had this pinnacle moment 1:09:50.560 --> 1:09:53.040 on uh the A M A's or C M A 1:09:53.200 --> 1:09:56.400 s with the like and it was phenomenal. I mean, 1:09:56.439 --> 1:09:58.840 we had him on sale at the l Ray, which 1:09:58.880 --> 1:10:01.080 is an eight hundred seat love in Los Angeles with 1:10:01.320 --> 1:10:03.799 I think we're sitting after a month with three tickets 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:06.360 left to sell on the show, so it wasn't knocking 1:10:06.360 --> 1:10:08.759 down the doors. And he had that performance in those shows, 1:10:08.760 --> 1:10:11.639 those tickets sold in about thirty seconds and we're going 1:10:11.680 --> 1:10:15.960 for three sho of the next day. And his rise 1:10:16.040 --> 1:10:19.360 has been phenomenal. Sin there I'm a huge fan, So 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:22.280 I just think that he's putting out incredible music, and 1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:25.800 really that opportunity opened everybody's eyes is like how great 1:10:25.840 --> 1:10:28.920 he is because you know, to me, he he fulfills 1:10:28.960 --> 1:10:33.320 that somewhere between like that southern rock to Tom Petty 1:10:33.439 --> 1:10:36.160 vibe of rock and roll style with you know, country souls. 1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:40.280 The fascinating thing about Stapleton is on every metric he's victorious. 1:10:40.560 --> 1:10:42.719 When he had that moment and he won the award, 1:10:43.120 --> 1:10:47.120 he's the favorite of everybody in Nashville who are playing 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:50.400 the game when he isn't. But in addition, his consumption 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:54.040 numbers and sales exceed everybody else's, even though he until 1:10:54.080 --> 1:10:57.320 recently hasn't got much radio played, which seems to say, hey, 1:10:57.360 --> 1:11:00.519 we want this credibility. It's like the inmates, you know, 1:11:00.880 --> 1:11:04.320 who feel that they're incarcerated in the walls that don't exist, 1:11:04.520 --> 1:11:06.360 so we can't break out. But look at this guy 1:11:06.400 --> 1:11:10.000 who broke out. Now, why is it? The country is 1:11:10.560 --> 1:11:16.599 play stadiums more than any other genre. Taylor Swift originally 1:11:16.640 --> 1:11:19.480 was country. Kenny Chesney goes out every year of country, 1:11:19.720 --> 1:11:22.280 you know, Jason Aldan, they go out with packages, but 1:11:22.360 --> 1:11:25.040 they're the ones we're pushing the limits on stadiums. Well, 1:11:25.080 --> 1:11:28.679 I think country is still largely driven by country radio, 1:11:28.760 --> 1:11:33.639 which is of that format still pretty healthy. UM, so 1:11:34.040 --> 1:11:37.200 they've had a pretty Country music has had much more 1:11:37.240 --> 1:11:41.200 of a developmental system in place, um relative to rock, 1:11:41.360 --> 1:11:44.519 pop or the other genres, and it has kind of 1:11:44.520 --> 1:11:48.719 propelled these guys. And as country music has become crossed 1:11:48.760 --> 1:11:53.040 over a bit towards pop, it's it's really gone mass appeal. 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:56.439 So the genre is very accessible right now. I'd say 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:58.680 that's a big part of the reason you're seeing more 1:11:58.800 --> 1:12:01.800 stadium shows with artists like that. But I'm I'm just 1:12:01.840 --> 1:12:04.000 thinking that you're starting to see more classic rock tours 1:12:04.000 --> 1:12:07.520 and stadiums again. You're seeing more you know, the Beyonce's 1:12:07.600 --> 1:12:11.320 and jay Z's and Eminem's having played stadiums recently. I 1:12:11.360 --> 1:12:14.320 don't know that countries out pacing a lot of other genres, 1:12:14.360 --> 1:12:16.160 right I think the other ones are coming in. There 1:12:16.160 --> 1:12:18.240 were not many people going up and failing. They just 1:12:18.240 --> 1:12:21.880 weren't even going into that marketplace. So as we look forward, Hey, 1:12:22.120 --> 1:12:26.400 is rock dead? No, it's not dead. What I just 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:28.800 it's just not as popular as it used to be 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:31.920 with a younger demographic right, so classic Roc Hotter and 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:34.439 ever doing some of the best business. So again you're 1:12:34.479 --> 1:12:37.679 retretting on nostalgia there, but it's still very much alive 1:12:37.680 --> 1:12:40.160 that people are enjoying it. But you have you know, 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:42.559 we just put two shows with cretiv on Fleet on 1:12:42.600 --> 1:12:45.080 sale this morning and blew them out in two minutes. 1:12:45.120 --> 1:12:49.400 Okay there, uh John Anson Ford amphitheater here and that's 1:12:49.520 --> 1:12:53.320 very small first place in reality. If Geiger said how 1:12:53.360 --> 1:12:55.160 big can we go? I would have said, like, let's 1:12:55.200 --> 1:12:56.640 put it at the Greek Theater and we would have 1:12:56.680 --> 1:12:59.160 sold six thousand tickets in a day. It's they're playing 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:01.360 anywhere from hous and theaters. How about some of these 1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:05.320 acts that have renowned but have not broken through mass consciousness, 1:13:05.400 --> 1:13:09.320 like the War on Drugs not compelling enough? I guess, 1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:11.200 I mean, I love the War on drugs, but it 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:13.800 just hasn't resonated at a level that Well. A great 1:13:13.840 --> 1:13:17.439 Evan Fleet, which the record is certainly original. Hep is great, 1:13:17.479 --> 1:13:19.680 and it's it leads up when retread. Can you name 1:13:19.720 --> 1:13:24.320 one or two other acts that are burgeoning in that way? Burgeoning? No, 1:13:24.600 --> 1:13:27.839 there's I mean, rock is not developing a ton of superstars. 1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:30.439 I mean, you've seen Portugal. Demand is a rock band 1:13:30.439 --> 1:13:32.599 that's been around a long time, had a huge hit 1:13:32.680 --> 1:13:34.920 this year, great rock band, and they're just finally starting 1:13:34.920 --> 1:13:36.880 to break through. It might take longer to get through it. 1:13:37.040 --> 1:13:40.080 That's kind of a poppit. That's that if someone did 1:13:40.080 --> 1:13:41.960 not someone did not know Portugal the man, they would 1:13:42.000 --> 1:13:44.800 not say this is rock music. Fair fair enough. I mean, 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:47.280 I don't think gret Evan fleets and a novelty act, 1:13:47.280 --> 1:13:49.120 but you can say that's a novelty song because it's 1:13:49.120 --> 1:13:51.400 got such thing. The interesting thing with Greta van Fleet 1:13:51.479 --> 1:13:54.240 is the original people created that music. The classic rockers 1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:57.280 were listening to the blues masters, where the tracks, the 1:13:57.320 --> 1:14:01.400 songs were somewhere between years old. It's been more than 1:14:01.439 --> 1:14:04.960 thirty or fifty, forty or fifty years since Creams, since 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:08.000 led Zeppelin, So on some level, younger generation picking up 1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:10.639 on that, we could see the same paradigm. I don't 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:14.520 know if it's ultimately going to play out, but uh 1:14:14.760 --> 1:14:18.040 we saw a dip in two thousand and ten with 1:14:18.120 --> 1:14:21.679 live business. Anything gonna happen, but what do you foresee. Look, 1:14:21.720 --> 1:14:24.120 I think that dip was the economy was was in 1:14:24.160 --> 1:14:27.320 the worst recession since the Great Depression. I mean, discretionary 1:14:27.479 --> 1:14:30.559 income went out the window. So I think that in 1:14:30.640 --> 1:14:32.960 large part I wasn't like all of a sudden people 1:14:33.000 --> 1:14:35.720 became less interested in music. I think people have less 1:14:35.760 --> 1:14:38.040 dollars to spend. Flip it over. There's many people who 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:41.439 believe that it's all about experiences now and then the 1:14:41.479 --> 1:14:43.120 only place you can get it is that the live show. 1:14:43.160 --> 1:14:48.000 So that's driving business. Certainly, the live business is king 1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:49.639 in this day and age, you know, in a sense 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:51.280 of I think two thousand seventeen was the first year 1:14:51.280 --> 1:14:53.920 that recorded revenue for two years. Yeah, so you know, 1:14:53.960 --> 1:14:56.559 the live business revenue has been growing for for years 1:14:56.600 --> 1:14:59.120 and been growing rapidly since the economy picked up in 1:14:59.120 --> 1:15:01.640 two thousand and twelve, and the live business has been phenomenal. 1:15:01.960 --> 1:15:03.360 You read a lot of articles and you hear a 1:15:03.400 --> 1:15:05.760 lot of things about everybody wants the experiences, and I 1:15:05.800 --> 1:15:08.720 think that is true to a large degree, and the 1:15:08.800 --> 1:15:12.320 festivals have helped propel that culture where it's music is 1:15:12.360 --> 1:15:16.760 computal right, So when you are by yourself listening to music, 1:15:16.760 --> 1:15:18.479 it's one thing, and when you want to spend time 1:15:18.520 --> 1:15:20.280 with people, and as we spend more and more times 1:15:20.280 --> 1:15:22.800 in our homes with our big screen TVs or iPads 1:15:22.800 --> 1:15:24.760 and our Netflix and all of those things like how 1:15:24.760 --> 1:15:26.960 do you get your communal fix? I think that the 1:15:27.040 --> 1:15:30.799 live experience in large part supports that. Now the number 1:15:30.840 --> 1:15:36.000 one talking point amongst attendees is the availability and price 1:15:36.080 --> 1:15:41.160 of tickets. Where do you stand on should the fan 1:15:41.360 --> 1:15:44.800 be able to get in at a cheap price or 1:15:44.840 --> 1:15:48.559 should tickets be whatever the market value is. So a 1:15:48.640 --> 1:15:52.040 few years back, Neil Young did a theater tour and 1:15:52.080 --> 1:15:55.120 I got myself in trouble responding to the left sets letter. 1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:58.519 So Neil was out there and I think he was 1:15:58.600 --> 1:16:01.559 charging close to to in her fifty dollars for the 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:04.960 top ticket at his theater tour, which Neil Young should 1:16:05.000 --> 1:16:06.840 not be playing. If it's if you're just talking about 1:16:07.360 --> 1:16:09.920 the demand in a given market, Neil Young consent saw 1:16:09.960 --> 1:16:12.640 out a theater and any town he goes to, the 1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:15.680 minute it goes on sale, it's it's a what you 1:16:15.680 --> 1:16:19.320 generally call it underplaying our business. So Neil plays it. 1:16:19.360 --> 1:16:23.480 He's charging to seventy five and people are a gas because, um, 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:27.240 they feel they should be paying whatever fifty bucks thirty 1:16:27.240 --> 1:16:29.439 five bucks whenever they felt the right Neil Young price, 1:16:29.479 --> 1:16:31.840 which is those prices are probably what you call the 1:16:31.880 --> 1:16:36.880 bore traditional uh rock and roll ticket prices. But the 1:16:36.920 --> 1:16:40.439 reality is scalpers for years have been getting tickets and 1:16:40.680 --> 1:16:44.320 reselling them on the secondary market, whether that was Barrious 1:16:44.360 --> 1:16:47.439 tickets back in the day or today stub Hub or 1:16:47.720 --> 1:16:50.840 Vivid or any of the other Internet platforms that are 1:16:50.880 --> 1:16:54.960 driving the market. So at the time I replied back 1:16:55.000 --> 1:16:57.960 to you and said, you know, I actually think Neil 1:16:58.040 --> 1:16:59.760 Young is doing the right thing because this is a 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:03.200 flying demand economics. Um, this show is going to sell 1:17:03.240 --> 1:17:06.920 it instantly. If Neil Young prices them at seventy five dollars, 1:17:06.920 --> 1:17:10.160 there's going to be people that are professional scalpers, and 1:17:10.680 --> 1:17:13.120 you know, weekend scalpers in a sense of the get 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:15.599 tickets say wow, I could make you know, I got 1:17:15.680 --> 1:17:17.479 I bought two tickets or four tickets or so many 1:17:17.479 --> 1:17:19.920 five They can sell two of them for two hundred 1:17:19.920 --> 1:17:22.200 and fifty bucks and either pay for my night at 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:25.839 a show, or you know, put profit in my scalping business. 1:17:25.960 --> 1:17:30.439 And ultimately, who's not sharing in that Neil Young's not 1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:32.760 sharing in that, the promoters not sharing in that his 1:17:32.800 --> 1:17:36.160 manager doesn't share, and that that lift of the scalper 1:17:36.200 --> 1:17:38.679 is keeping. So I said, look, if the market value 1:17:38.720 --> 1:17:40.679 is two hundred fifty dollars for a Neil Young ticket, 1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:44.160 I'm okay with them charging it because people are happy 1:17:44.200 --> 1:17:48.000 paying nobody's nobody's upset that they spent two hundred fifty dollars. 1:17:48.040 --> 1:17:50.240 If you if you get the seat you want. And 1:17:50.280 --> 1:17:52.599 that's how stuff help came to prominense because the constant 1:17:52.640 --> 1:17:55.920 industry for years was under pricing their tickets right. So 1:17:56.880 --> 1:17:59.439 I'm a big fan of market pricing your tickets correctly, 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:01.960 and that's that's gonna work two ways. And a smaller 1:18:02.040 --> 1:18:03.840 venue with Neil Young, there's not gonna be a lot 1:18:03.880 --> 1:18:07.240 of cheaper tickets in that experience as a venue gets bigger. 1:18:07.520 --> 1:18:09.439 Um jay Z. There was a lot of talk about 1:18:09.520 --> 1:18:12.200 jay Z's tour, whether it's a success or not. And 1:18:12.240 --> 1:18:15.559 from what I gather, they had really respectable grosses and 1:18:15.560 --> 1:18:18.880 he was selling tickets, but he had tickets going from 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:21.800 you know, five hundred to a thousand dollars maybe all 1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:24.040 the way down to like twenty in the back of 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:27.680 the arena. So to me, if your expectations, I want 1:18:27.720 --> 1:18:29.479 to pay twenty dollars and sit in the front row 1:18:29.680 --> 1:18:31.960 and arena to see jay Z. Well, that's gonna be 1:18:32.000 --> 1:18:33.840 a little unrealistic. But if I want to go see 1:18:33.920 --> 1:18:35.799 jay Z live and I want to spend twenty dollars, 1:18:36.040 --> 1:18:39.160 there's a place for you in that scenario. So I 1:18:39.160 --> 1:18:42.559 think you're seeing more and more price points within arena 1:18:42.640 --> 1:18:44.720 which have really existed for years, because if you think 1:18:44.760 --> 1:18:48.360 about it, we would roll out uh any kind of concert. 1:18:48.400 --> 1:18:50.720 Take your pick a Tom Petty show. Um, if you 1:18:50.800 --> 1:18:53.479 put that show on sale, we might have picked four 1:18:53.560 --> 1:18:55.760 or five price points. You could go to StubHub the 1:18:55.840 --> 1:18:57.680 next day and look at all the people who were 1:18:57.680 --> 1:19:01.320 speculating on reselling tickets and there would be a thousand 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:04.599 different price points. But but they did not go under 1:19:05.120 --> 1:19:09.080 the nosebleed price. That's not always the case. No, No, 1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:11.320 they did as they approached the show correct but not 1:19:11.360 --> 1:19:13.600 the next one. One would say, I don't want to 1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:16.400 make this about you, but this is a relatively recent 1:19:16.439 --> 1:19:19.920 phenomenon to drop the price of the nosebleed seats to 1:19:19.960 --> 1:19:22.640 a very low price in music, not not in like 1:19:22.680 --> 1:19:24.719 it's been going on for sports. You gotta lose your team. 1:19:25.320 --> 1:19:27.160 People are like, you know, I've gotten to plenty of 1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:29.719 baseball games where you know, you just buy some tickets 1:19:29.720 --> 1:19:31.840 on StubHub for the upper deck at Dodger Statium for 1:19:31.880 --> 1:19:34.599 ten bucks. You know, like I don't, I don't even 1:19:34.600 --> 1:19:35.880 know what the face was, but you can you know 1:19:35.880 --> 1:19:38.519 anybody is paying for a nupper back ticket at Dodger 1:19:38.560 --> 1:19:40.720 Stadium for more than ten bucks is like I guess 1:19:40.760 --> 1:19:42.759 the Yankees are in town or whoever is super popular. 1:19:42.840 --> 1:19:45.479 But in concerts is happening more and more, especially as 1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:47.080 you're pushing the price. So if it's not a hot 1:19:47.080 --> 1:19:49.519 tour and people need to sell those tickets, and there's 1:19:49.560 --> 1:19:51.360 more and more speculators in the game now than there 1:19:51.360 --> 1:19:54.759 ever was. The Stones, who are one of your racks, 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:59.920 legendarily flex price. They change the price during the core 1:20:00.080 --> 1:20:03.240 so the on sale correct. What is the future of that? 1:20:03.720 --> 1:20:06.280 I think dynamic pricing is already here. It is that, 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:08.880 I mean the future is already here. It's you're seeing 1:20:08.880 --> 1:20:11.760 more and more shows being priced dynamically based off of 1:20:11.760 --> 1:20:16.679 what the market demand is. So if you know, if 1:20:16.680 --> 1:20:18.960 a front row seats worth a thousand dollars, you're going 1:20:19.000 --> 1:20:21.280 to see it get charges thousand dollars. And if it's 1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:23.960 not moving at that. It might move down, um, and 1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:26.320 a price might a price point might move up. Basically 1:20:26.600 --> 1:20:28.519 email from people who are piste off. I paid to 1:20:28.720 --> 1:20:31.040 fifty and now the seat next to me's on sale 1:20:31.040 --> 1:20:34.840 for a bucket a quarter. Uh you know, it's like 1:20:34.880 --> 1:20:37.679 an airline price. The only thing is everybody hates the airlines. 1:20:38.160 --> 1:20:41.200 It's just the models, supply and an end pricing though. Right, yeah, 1:20:41.200 --> 1:20:42.760 we have we have a couple of things going. I'm 1:20:42.760 --> 1:20:45.720 not saying that the first row shouldn't be a thousand dollars, right, 1:20:46.160 --> 1:20:49.479 I'm saying that when I have a seat that I 1:20:49.520 --> 1:20:52.040 paid five for and the person next to me paid 1:20:52.040 --> 1:20:55.120 two and fifty dollars for, I'm not happy about that. 1:20:55.200 --> 1:20:57.439 I accept it with the airlines, I have a model, 1:20:57.640 --> 1:21:00.719 But the airline business is different from going to see 1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:04.200 a live music at so you paid five. This is 1:21:04.320 --> 1:21:08.160 my hypothetical. The number one ticketing site on the Internet 1:21:08.280 --> 1:21:10.720 is stubb Hub, right, and the music business. For a 1:21:10.760 --> 1:21:12.360 long time they were hated because they were seen as 1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:15.519 the scalping site, right, But from a consumer perspective, they 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:18.519 love it because a lot of people are frustrated going 1:21:18.520 --> 1:21:20.760 to Ticketmaster not being able to get the ticket that 1:21:20.800 --> 1:21:23.200 they want when they are there promptly at ten am 1:21:23.240 --> 1:21:25.040 for the on sale and they type in you know 1:21:25.360 --> 1:21:28.479 b O B L and the entire lower bill sold 1:21:28.520 --> 1:21:30.120 out before you can type the rest of your last 1:21:30.200 --> 1:21:34.719 name right. So they're upset, or it's like six months 1:21:34.720 --> 1:21:36.320 before the show and they don't know where they're going 1:21:36.400 --> 1:21:38.400 to be. They really want to go see their favorite 1:21:38.439 --> 1:21:41.519 band the hell, you know, like, who who would want 1:21:41.520 --> 1:21:43.559 to do buy the ticket? In that experience, it's a 1:21:43.680 --> 1:21:48.360 terrible selling experience as opposed to, uh, three weeks before 1:21:48.400 --> 1:21:50.800 the show, I really want to go see my favorite band. 1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:53.519 I'm going to go to stub Hub quickly found a 1:21:53.600 --> 1:21:57.479 seat in the tenth row. It's five bucks. Cool, I'm 1:21:57.479 --> 1:21:59.639 happy with five hundred bucks and get the seat I want. Honey, 1:21:59.720 --> 1:22:03.160 let's go out. It's date night. Let's let's rock. Um. 1:22:03.200 --> 1:22:05.479 You might be sitting to somebody who got through on 1:22:05.520 --> 1:22:07.479 their initial on sale when the ticket was two or 1:22:07.479 --> 1:22:09.720 fifty bucks, and I agree with everything said, And let 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:11.600 me try to break the points across. Let's start with 1:22:11.640 --> 1:22:15.880 the first point. Does it hurt the act charging what 1:22:16.040 --> 1:22:18.760 the market value is? The market value is going to 1:22:18.880 --> 1:22:21.240 charge what it is regardless of the act. Different issue. 1:22:21.400 --> 1:22:23.160 There's a whole guy wrote a whole essay. I think 1:22:23.160 --> 1:22:24.840 it happened to be in poll Star one of the 1:22:24.880 --> 1:22:27.640 economists that said in terms of longevity of act, and 1:22:27.720 --> 1:22:31.439 I always felt the opposite, that to charge what the 1:22:31.479 --> 1:22:33.800 market will bear actually hurts the longevity of the act. 1:22:34.479 --> 1:22:37.120 You're saying leaves some meat on the bone, right, don't 1:22:37.120 --> 1:22:39.599 don't you know, don't kill your audists. You never attacks him, No, No, 1:22:39.920 --> 1:22:43.360 My point is the perception will be that you're fan friendly, 1:22:43.400 --> 1:22:46.280 even though these third parties will be making bank and 1:22:46.320 --> 1:22:48.680 it won't go to you. But in the long run 1:22:48.720 --> 1:22:51.679 you will have a longer career. I mean, it's it's 1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:54.760 a premise. I don't think the Stones have charged less 1:22:54.800 --> 1:22:57.760 over time, and they're and they're still doing okay because 1:22:57.760 --> 1:23:02.760 it's started with tickets were under ten. Next question becomes, 1:23:03.280 --> 1:23:07.720 where does paperless fit in this equation. Well, look, there's 1:23:07.760 --> 1:23:09.519 two paths that you're going to go down to as 1:23:09.520 --> 1:23:12.519 far as the purchasing experience. A. There's market value, right, 1:23:12.560 --> 1:23:16.240 which is gonna drive up the best seats um at 1:23:16.240 --> 1:23:17.840 the you know, at the highest price, and try and 1:23:17.880 --> 1:23:19.920 get the maximum yield out of that. And some of 1:23:19.920 --> 1:23:22.479 it may yield cheaper seats in the back, but it's 1:23:22.479 --> 1:23:24.880 really going to fluctuate as to what true market pricing 1:23:24.880 --> 1:23:27.519 demand is. The second option is there's a lot of 1:23:27.560 --> 1:23:30.200 bands out there who feel I don't want my fan 1:23:30.400 --> 1:23:32.800 basically following up what we were talking about paying more 1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:35.120 than thirty five dollars for this ticket. And maybe a 1:23:35.160 --> 1:23:38.200 great example would be Adel who topped out her ticket 1:23:38.200 --> 1:23:42.439 prices of a hundred fifty dollars. So she used paperless ticketing, 1:23:42.760 --> 1:23:46.360 which is a format of ticketing that you don't actually 1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:47.840 get a physical ticket. You have to show up with 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:49.880 your I D and a credit card and then go 1:23:50.000 --> 1:23:52.160 right into the venue. And what that is intended to 1:23:52.200 --> 1:23:55.960 do is prevent um a secondary market from transferring the 1:23:55.960 --> 1:24:00.280 ticket to another party. So I think it's technology gets better. 1:24:01.240 --> 1:24:05.360 Artists should have the ability to not to limit or 1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:09.040 control the pricing on their ticket. Right now, scalpers and 1:24:09.080 --> 1:24:12.840 technology have far outpaced the industry and their ability to 1:24:13.520 --> 1:24:17.679 thwart systems like paperless ticketing from working at a high 1:24:17.720 --> 1:24:22.000 success rate. So you know there's our company, ticketing company 1:24:22.040 --> 1:24:24.559 Access is working on ideas. Ticket Masters hard at work 1:24:24.600 --> 1:24:27.519 on ideas on how you can secure the ticket. And 1:24:27.520 --> 1:24:29.719 there's a lot of other reasons to talk about securing 1:24:29.720 --> 1:24:34.400 the ticket because as you see UM attacks happen over 1:24:34.640 --> 1:24:38.320 in Europe at the Ariana Grande show and in Paris 1:24:38.320 --> 1:24:41.000 where the people came, well, that was charging through. But 1:24:41.080 --> 1:24:44.000 like to know who's in the building UH at any 1:24:44.040 --> 1:24:47.880 given time and have that customer data handy is becomes 1:24:47.960 --> 1:24:50.600 much more valuable as well. So will a ticket in 1:24:50.640 --> 1:24:53.679 the future become much more transferable to person to person 1:24:53.720 --> 1:24:55.280 and you'll be able to track that ticket. I think 1:24:55.320 --> 1:24:58.719 that's where the technology is going. Okay, then also talking 1:25:00.040 --> 1:25:05.719 about UH, you know, let's go back, so in terms 1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:10.040 of prices changing after the original on sale goes on, 1:25:10.200 --> 1:25:14.439 do you envision that happening more? And then there's very 1:25:14.439 --> 1:25:18.280 little transparency. The average person sitting at home believes when 1:25:18.280 --> 1:25:21.560 the on sale goes on Saturday morning that all the 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:24.800 tickets are available, when in reality may be less fewer 1:25:24.840 --> 1:25:30.160 than ten percent of the overall UH ticket availability. So 1:25:30.520 --> 1:25:35.840 first explain where all those other tickets go. Usually there's 1:25:36.240 --> 1:25:40.080 you're seeing far more stage staggered on sales as I 1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:42.639 would call them. So you're seeing artists fan club preise 1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:46.000 sales as you're seeing UH sponsor pre sales. American Express 1:25:46.040 --> 1:25:48.599 sponsors a lot of pre sales, will contribute marketing dollars 1:25:48.600 --> 1:25:50.960 to help promote the show. So if you have an 1:25:50.960 --> 1:25:53.320 ann X cards, you'll have access to buy tickets early. 1:25:53.560 --> 1:25:56.519 For there's venue pre sales, there's radio station pre sales, 1:25:56.880 --> 1:26:01.519 they're Spotify pre sales. How those choose to get rolled 1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:04.040 out are really a decision between both the artist promoter 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:06.599 and everybody in the business side of the equation. And 1:26:06.640 --> 1:26:08.960 some people feel they're great because they help them sell 1:26:09.200 --> 1:26:11.759 more tickets and get more people access to the tickets, 1:26:11.800 --> 1:26:13.840 and then there's other people who don't participate in them 1:26:13.880 --> 1:26:17.639 because they feel it limits the access to tickets. Well, 1:26:17.720 --> 1:26:20.080 I can say is a lot of this although baked 1:26:20.080 --> 1:26:24.280 into the business for historical reasons, not fan friendly in 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:27.080 an Internet era where a site that is not the 1:26:27.200 --> 1:26:30.840 unfriendly usually is you know, bombarded with criticism and might 1:26:30.880 --> 1:26:33.400 go down. So what is the future We're just going 1:26:33.479 --> 1:26:36.479 to continue to have this opacity or is it going 1:26:36.520 --> 1:26:40.240 to change? Well, look, I think you're gonna see slower 1:26:40.240 --> 1:26:41.800 on sales. I think you're going to see what the 1:26:41.840 --> 1:26:44.439 demand is for, you know, for artists that want to 1:26:44.479 --> 1:26:47.040 maximize the gross and are really focused in on how 1:26:47.120 --> 1:26:49.800 much I can gross the concert and get what the 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:52.400 real market value is for this concert. You're going to 1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:55.840 see a mix of technology supporting that, and you may 1:26:55.880 --> 1:26:58.200 see a slower rollout of tickets in a sense of 1:26:58.200 --> 1:27:00.519 not every ticket may go on sale at the onset 1:27:00.600 --> 1:27:04.120 while you're determining what market pricing is. And then on 1:27:04.160 --> 1:27:06.240 the flip side of it, as you be able, as 1:27:06.280 --> 1:27:10.080 we are able to buckle down the technology to the 1:27:10.080 --> 1:27:12.679 point where you can really control transferability of a ticket, 1:27:13.120 --> 1:27:15.320 then the artist that it's very important to that their 1:27:15.320 --> 1:27:17.360 fan don't pay over a certain price point will be 1:27:17.400 --> 1:27:20.040 able to do that as well. And really technology is 1:27:20.040 --> 1:27:22.000 going to drive this. So one of the two biggest 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:27.000 challenges you have in your day to day job, Um, well, 1:27:27.439 --> 1:27:29.479 we have a very big business. We do over twelve 1:27:29.520 --> 1:27:32.639 thousand shows a year. So one of my biggest challenges, 1:27:32.680 --> 1:27:34.840 just as I generally call it cat hurting, I have 1:27:34.880 --> 1:27:36.960 a lot of details to follow up on a day, 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:40.680 and so staying organized and focused on the goals of 1:27:40.680 --> 1:27:43.799 the month, the year are it's probably my number one challenge. 1:27:43.840 --> 1:27:46.720 But um you know, we we we compete every day 1:27:46.760 --> 1:27:49.040 against the biggest conscert phone in the world. So I 1:27:49.080 --> 1:27:52.200 have to sharpen the knife and come with a lot 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:55.320 of focus and try and move quickly to uh to uh, 1:27:55.600 --> 1:27:57.960 you know, fight for our piece of the pie that day. 1:27:58.200 --> 1:28:03.680 And one or two things you've learned in years? Two things, um, 1:28:03.720 --> 1:28:08.439 that I've learned in twenty five years, Um, that I 1:28:08.479 --> 1:28:10.720 don't always want to meet every artist I used to 1:28:10.760 --> 1:28:14.280 admire because you don't have time or they're disappointing. You 1:28:14.320 --> 1:28:17.560 were what Sometimes they disappoint you, you know some Sometimes 1:28:17.560 --> 1:28:22.400 I've I've loved a band less after meeting them. It 1:28:22.479 --> 1:28:23.960 could be a big fan of a band, and I've 1:28:24.040 --> 1:28:26.080 I've met an artist or have done business with them 1:28:26.680 --> 1:28:29.200 and or other people to the point where it kind 1:28:29.200 --> 1:28:31.840 of put a little tarnish on my view of the 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:34.880 band and enjoyment of the music. So I think the 1:28:34.880 --> 1:28:37.680 old adage is careful, careful about meeting your heroes. Right. 1:28:37.720 --> 1:28:43.040 Have you ever met anybody who's lived up to the legend? Uh? Yeah, 1:28:42.520 --> 1:28:44.920 I look, I've met a lot of great artists along 1:28:44.960 --> 1:28:48.519 the way. UM. I mentioned earlier that one of the 1:28:48.520 --> 1:28:50.960 first bands that I promoted kind of from big are 1:28:51.000 --> 1:28:55.200 Small to Big was No Doubt And the guys in 1:28:55.240 --> 1:28:57.599 no doubt. Tony Canal and Adrian and Tom are all 1:28:57.600 --> 1:28:59.800 good friends of mine and like I just I root 1:28:59.840 --> 1:29:02.920 for them and any project that they do. So um, 1:29:03.240 --> 1:29:05.400 I've got a special place in my heart for for 1:29:05.439 --> 1:29:09.439 them in that band because uh, you know, they were 1:29:09.479 --> 1:29:11.000 they were with me in the early days. I was 1:29:11.000 --> 1:29:12.840 with them in their early days, so it was went 1:29:12.880 --> 1:29:15.519 through the war together. Yeah, and and they're and they're 1:29:15.760 --> 1:29:18.800 good people, so they deserve all the success that they had. Well, 1:29:18.840 --> 1:29:21.160 you know, one of the biggest acts who lives up 1:29:21.200 --> 1:29:23.559 to the legends, Steven Tyler. The moment I met him, 1:29:23.720 --> 1:29:25.720 he is that guy. He's the rock star. He's very 1:29:25.800 --> 1:29:28.559 quick with the language, you know, whereas there other people 1:29:28.760 --> 1:29:32.040 very disappointing. Yeah. Well, and and look, I've been really 1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:34.400 fortunate because I want to say, I don't want to 1:29:34.520 --> 1:29:36.760 say it's bad meeting artists. It's been great. But you know, 1:29:36.760 --> 1:29:38.680 when you get to meet you know, I get to 1:29:38.720 --> 1:29:41.200 meet a lot of artists in the business, and that's 1:29:41.240 --> 1:29:42.760 a fun part of it. And when you go to 1:29:42.960 --> 1:29:44.760 a party with friends who aren't in the business, that 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:47.840 sounds incredible. And I don't really care who I meet 1:29:47.880 --> 1:29:49.280 for the most part. For day to day but every 1:29:49.320 --> 1:29:50.960 once in a while, like you know, I got to 1:29:51.760 --> 1:29:54.839 George Landau introduced me to Bruce Springsteen after a benefit 1:29:54.880 --> 1:29:57.360 show and I had to make small talk with Bruce 1:29:57.360 --> 1:30:00.760 for what was What was the nature of the small talk? Uh, 1:30:01.200 --> 1:30:03.720 he was performing at the Shrine. I talked about some 1:30:03.760 --> 1:30:05.479 of the renovations we had done at the Shrine and 1:30:05.520 --> 1:30:07.640 the nature of the benefit. And you know, he was 1:30:07.680 --> 1:30:09.760 coming to do the River that that next year at 1:30:10.040 --> 1:30:12.000 the Sports Arena, which we were producing. So we talked, 1:30:12.240 --> 1:30:14.200 you know, for a minute about that. It was three 1:30:14.240 --> 1:30:16.880 minutes of that. But as you know, you're just sitting 1:30:16.920 --> 1:30:19.880 there the whole time, like I'm sitting three ft from 1:30:19.920 --> 1:30:22.240 Bob having this converse. Imagine he was Bruce Springton and 1:30:22.479 --> 1:30:23.960 the whole time Bruce is talking to me. I'm trying 1:30:23.960 --> 1:30:27.000 to sound not sound like an idiot going fucking Bruce 1:30:27.000 --> 1:30:30.120 Springsteen in front of me. The factor actually having a 1:30:30.160 --> 1:30:33.599 conversation is what I'm focusing on. Because frequently, you know, 1:30:33.800 --> 1:30:36.599 frequently they give the limp musician Handshakeen, that's it, We're 1:30:36.640 --> 1:30:38.679 all start talking to you have They have no idea 1:30:38.720 --> 1:30:40.479 who I am. They don't care about it. But when 1:30:40.479 --> 1:30:44.679 you're actually engaging in the conversation. Your heart pitter powders circumountain. Yeah, 1:30:44.720 --> 1:30:47.519 it's it's amazing to watch some artists. I tell this 1:30:47.640 --> 1:30:51.639 story a lot is um We've produced Katie Perry's last 1:30:51.680 --> 1:30:57.680 few tours and uh sheep, you know, on the on 1:30:57.760 --> 1:31:01.080 the two tours ago, Uh, we were getting hit left 1:31:01.080 --> 1:31:04.720 and right with uh meet and greet requests. So she 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:07.080 ultimately made the decision that she was only going to 1:31:07.479 --> 1:31:10.880 um do meet and greets for kids that were in 1:31:10.880 --> 1:31:13.920 bad he make like make a wish style requests, and 1:31:14.000 --> 1:31:15.600 it limited it because you know, it would be an 1:31:15.680 --> 1:31:18.280 endless stream of people, uh that wanted to meet her. 1:31:18.360 --> 1:31:22.439 And at st Staples was ended up being one of 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:24.360 her tour sponsors that year. So when she did play 1:31:24.360 --> 1:31:27.280 Staples Center, there were some you know Staples executives that 1:31:27.280 --> 1:31:28.840 were part of that and a few other people, and 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:30.559 so it kind of broke the rule for that night 1:31:30.560 --> 1:31:32.960 and there was a row of people meeting there and 1:31:33.000 --> 1:31:35.640 my my daughter at that time, was probably around ten 1:31:35.720 --> 1:31:38.759 years old, and I set it up with Steve Jensen, 1:31:38.920 --> 1:31:41.960 Katie's manager, to meet her, and so we were standing 1:31:41.960 --> 1:31:44.080 there at the end of the line, you know, watching 1:31:44.080 --> 1:31:45.640 her do the meet and greet with the kids and 1:31:46.080 --> 1:31:49.559 working her way down and you know she I just 1:31:49.640 --> 1:31:53.000 watched her and she was so locked in instantly on 1:31:53.040 --> 1:31:56.479 what every kid was saying to her. Uh, and she 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:58.479 connected with them in a way that I was like, wow, 1:31:58.600 --> 1:32:01.120 Like it wasn't surprised to me why she was such 1:32:01.120 --> 1:32:03.320 a big star, you know. And we were towards the 1:32:03.439 --> 1:32:06.519 end of the line and she, you know, she she 1:32:07.680 --> 1:32:09.599 walked up to my daughter, whose name is Katie, and said, 1:32:09.600 --> 1:32:11.200 your name is Katie, My name is Katie. You know, 1:32:11.320 --> 1:32:13.759 made a big to do about that, started talking about 1:32:14.360 --> 1:32:16.760 instantly locked in on what my daughter was wearing. And 1:32:16.800 --> 1:32:19.320 they had a nice little chat for like maybe a 1:32:19.360 --> 1:32:21.040 minute and a half, and you know, you get your 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:23.519 courtesy picture and I go to take I take up 1:32:23.520 --> 1:32:24.800 my phone to take a picture of the tomb, and 1:32:24.840 --> 1:32:27.320 she grabs my phone and she flips it around and 1:32:27.400 --> 1:32:30.760 she shoots the selfie with my daughter and like a 1:32:30.840 --> 1:32:34.200 kid my daughter's age, that's far more valuable than like 1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:36.880 the fact that it was shot selfie style, and it 1:32:36.960 --> 1:32:39.719 was so smooth and so connected in and I go, man, 1:32:40.080 --> 1:32:42.439 she is just locking in this fans, Like she's just 1:32:42.479 --> 1:32:45.160 like that personal connection is that that that charisma and 1:32:45.200 --> 1:32:46.920 touch that she had. I was just like, I was 1:32:46.960 --> 1:32:51.439 so taken with how she each one of those things. 1:32:51.439 --> 1:32:52.720 And I mean that line had to be for two 1:32:52.720 --> 1:32:54.400 people long, and there's a lot of artists that will 1:32:54.439 --> 1:32:56.479 do even more than that, and like she just connected 1:32:56.479 --> 1:32:58.559 with each other. And I go, man, that is that 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:01.840 is amazing? And the you see, you know, the artist 1:33:01.840 --> 1:33:05.080 personal touches. For years, the country rule has been, you know, 1:33:05.120 --> 1:33:06.400 you go out on the road, you're the first to 1:33:06.479 --> 1:33:08.640 three on one of those country packages in the MP 1:33:08.680 --> 1:33:11.720 theaters and the openers up at the concessions, sorry, the 1:33:11.760 --> 1:33:14.479 merch stand selling T shirts and sign an autographs for 1:33:14.560 --> 1:33:17.040 everybody there. And I you know, it's it's interesting the 1:33:17.080 --> 1:33:18.799 bands that will put in the work to go connect 1:33:18.840 --> 1:33:21.439 with people, um and talk to him, because I think 1:33:21.840 --> 1:33:25.639 that breeds a lot of loyalty and longevity, you know, right. 1:33:25.760 --> 1:33:28.719 Speaking of your daughter, we've talked about this before. She's 1:33:28.760 --> 1:33:31.680 a huge Hamilton's fan, Yes, and you've seen Hamilton's a 1:33:31.720 --> 1:33:34.120 couple of times. Is that a unique property? Does it 1:33:34.280 --> 1:33:36.720 have lessons for the rest of the business. Look, I 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:40.360 think Hamilton's a great example of it's just great music, right, 1:33:40.439 --> 1:33:43.840 So lin Manuel made an incredible score. I before we 1:33:43.880 --> 1:33:45.519 went to go see it, I had listened to that 1:33:45.600 --> 1:33:48.760 soundtrack no less than three hundred and fifty times uh 1:33:48.800 --> 1:33:52.040 in a year period. We listened to it every day. UH. 1:33:52.080 --> 1:33:55.240 And so when we when we got tickets to it, it 1:33:55.160 --> 1:33:57.720 it was a big exciting thing. But you know, I 1:33:57.760 --> 1:34:00.200 thought it was my daughter at first, who's she had 1:34:00.200 --> 1:34:03.880 a predisposition to musicals, and she's into the Broadway seeing. 1:34:03.920 --> 1:34:05.880 She's performed in a few kids theaters and things of 1:34:05.920 --> 1:34:09.439 that nature. So I didn't think that much of it 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:12.320 at the time, and I just liked the soundtrack myself. 1:34:13.000 --> 1:34:14.880 As we got closer to going to see the play 1:34:14.880 --> 1:34:17.600 at the end of the year in New York, UM, 1:34:17.640 --> 1:34:19.200 I was paying more and more attention to what was 1:34:19.240 --> 1:34:21.719 going on with with Lynn, and I just hadn't opened 1:34:21.760 --> 1:34:24.160 my eyes wide enough, and I realized what a phenomenon 1:34:24.320 --> 1:34:27.160 was and how it was, you know, one of five 1:34:27.200 --> 1:34:31.000 albums that year to sell over a million copies, UM, 1:34:31.040 --> 1:34:34.120 which I think is saying something Broadway soundtrack of all 1:34:34.120 --> 1:34:37.960 the pop records with no hits. And where it really 1:34:38.280 --> 1:34:41.320 blew my mind is we uh were on a family 1:34:41.320 --> 1:34:46.320 trip after the New Year, and I uh in Vale, Colorado, 1:34:46.479 --> 1:34:48.600 and we were I met up with a friend that 1:34:48.680 --> 1:34:50.320 I had went to high school with, and she brought 1:34:50.360 --> 1:34:52.760 up her two daughters and we all the families hung 1:34:52.760 --> 1:34:55.080 out for a few days. In the first night, at dinner, 1:34:55.160 --> 1:34:58.439 the the kids were talking about Kay brought up how 1:34:58.520 --> 1:35:00.280 we went to go see Hamilton's over the hall days, 1:35:00.400 --> 1:35:03.360 and they started, everybody loved Hamilton's, And all of a sudden, 1:35:03.360 --> 1:35:06.200 there's three kids and units at the table start word 1:35:06.240 --> 1:35:10.200 for word wrapping the first, second, and third songs like 1:35:10.360 --> 1:35:12.960 I just it was. It was, And then as it 1:35:13.000 --> 1:35:14.800 kind of pushed Katie on more and more of her friends, 1:35:14.840 --> 1:35:19.160 like it's a It was just a phenomenon through all 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:22.880 these junior high kids that were just fully into a 1:35:23.000 --> 1:35:25.760 musical of hip hop about warning the about one of 1:35:25.760 --> 1:35:28.360 the founding fathers. I found it fascinating even so much 1:35:28.600 --> 1:35:31.800 like Uh. This past Valentine's Day a few days ago, 1:35:32.360 --> 1:35:34.080 I came home and I was looking at her lunch 1:35:34.160 --> 1:35:37.200 box and one of her friend had made Hamilton's Valentine's Day. 1:35:38.040 --> 1:35:39.800 It was like Linn Manuel and it says, I'm not 1:35:39.800 --> 1:35:42.200 going to waste my shot on you with a little 1:35:42.200 --> 1:35:45.559 hard around it. So like it's It really is kind 1:35:45.560 --> 1:35:49.040 of a phenomenon of how this musical has like all 1:35:49.040 --> 1:35:52.240 the way down to like young kids. Wow, it really sustains. 1:35:52.600 --> 1:35:54.360 Now you've been doing this for twenty five years, you 1:35:54.479 --> 1:35:56.800 like music as much I love it. I love it. 1:35:56.920 --> 1:36:00.400 In fact, I was last weekend just making mixed well 1:36:00.439 --> 1:36:03.000 you know, make masage, make playlists now, but it was 1:36:03.360 --> 1:36:06.160 making playlists and digging around. And that's what one of 1:36:06.200 --> 1:36:08.240 the things I love about Spotify is that my music 1:36:08.280 --> 1:36:10.920 collection is so much bigger now so it was. It's 1:36:10.960 --> 1:36:13.840 way more fun than when I was eighteen in my 1:36:13.920 --> 1:36:16.040 bedroom with limited by how much I could afford to 1:36:16.080 --> 1:36:19.240 buy of music in a given day. Well, Rick, this 1:36:19.320 --> 1:36:21.439 has been wonderful. We've covered a lot of ground both 1:36:21.439 --> 1:36:23.960 for the people on the inside and on the outside. 1:36:23.960 --> 1:36:26.439 You missed the pra seed before we turn on the 1:36:26.520 --> 1:36:29.920 mics where we discuss chocolate chip cookies and soda. We'll 1:36:29.920 --> 1:36:31.680 have to have a comeback for that. But thanks so 1:36:31.760 --> 1:36:33.800 much for doing the Bob left Sets pods for having 1:36:33.840 --> 1:36:40.200 me Bob. That wraps up this episode of the Bob 1:36:40.280 --> 1:36:43.400 Left Sets Podcast with my guest Rick Mueller of A 1:36:43.640 --> 1:36:46.639 G Presents. I really enjoy getting to hear his path 1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:48.640 through the music business. But I know, based on the 1:36:48.680 --> 1:36:51.240 fact that so many people listen to and comment on 1:36:51.280 --> 1:36:54.439 the Nathan Hubbard podcast, that this ticketing conversation is an 1:36:54.479 --> 1:36:57.719 interesting one. If you want to take a deep dive 1:36:57.800 --> 1:37:00.200 into ticketing, go back to episode two with the Thin 1:37:00.280 --> 1:37:03.200 if you haven't already and get his perspective. Don't miss 1:37:03.200 --> 1:37:05.920 an episode of my podcast by subscribing on tune in, 1:37:06.320 --> 1:37:09.200 Apple Podcast, or your app of choice. Until next time, 1:37:09.320 --> 1:37:16.800 I'm Bob left steps. He reason don't know exactly one 1:37:18.160 --> 1:37:21.439 must be it's out of this seas