1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to this week's edition of the Bob 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: Left Sets podcast. My guest today is Rick Mueller, who's 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: president of A E. G Presents North America. Good to 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: have you here. Thanks for having me, Bob. Like I 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: do with everybody, We're gonna get into ticketing, We're to 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: get into touring, we're gonna get to other things musical. 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: But I like to get where a person comes from 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: because that reflects who they ultimately are. You're from North 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: Cow right correct to grew out in the East Banna 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: town called Lafia, just on the other side of the 11 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: Berkeley Hills, Lafayette. It's like what, I don't even I 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: didn't even know the name Lafiat. Pretty much grew up 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: in the suburban dream, deep suburbs of the San Francisco 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Bay area. My dad was an executive at Chevron. I 15 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: grew up going to high school like thousand people, pretty 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: much the American dream. I think your father was an 17 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: executive at Chevron doing what do you have any idea? 18 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: He worked in chemical additives division, and so he did. 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean, so when I go to the Chevron stage 20 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: and it says you want to buy show run because 21 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: of tech Ron. He's that guy. He is. Indeed, he 22 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: would oftentimes at the dinner table tell me what you 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: know additives did to gasoline. I couldn't recount any of 24 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: that today, but you know, but he was passionate about it. Yeah. 25 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: He was a hard working guy. He was smart guy. 26 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: As a trained chemist from m I T and worked 27 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: his way in the executive side and finished his career 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: living in Singapore managing and building a refinery and doing 29 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: deals in the Pacific. Room thought your parents remained married. 30 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: They just had their fiftieth winter in anniversary. Okay, so 31 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: they moved to Singapore after you were out of the house. 32 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: They did after my freshman year. I went to school 33 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: at Santa Barbara. They left I think that spring and 34 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: my first year of college, and they spent the next 35 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: seven or eight years there. Okay, so you're the only kid. 36 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: How many kids in the family, two kids, older brother 37 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: he went to Santa Barbara as well, and then went 38 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: to business school at U T in Austin and then 39 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: never left Austin. What does he do? He and his 40 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: wife had their own mortgage brokersh company. Okay, so you're 41 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: living in northern California and are you into music. Grew 42 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: up on music, So music because you're parents, role, your 43 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: older brother, your personal passion, personal passion. Early just I 44 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: was a Kinnectic kid. Music resonated with me so early on. 45 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 1: My mom got me enrolled in drum lessons because I 46 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: don't know if I just you know, she saw me 47 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: like an animal from the Muppet movies. I was a 48 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: bit for sure growing up in this day and age, 49 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: I would have been diagnosed as they like the A D. 50 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: D kid and probably put on adderall or something to 51 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: like calm me down. But she got me involved in 52 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: a lot of sports. She signed me up for drum lessons, 53 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: and these were all kind of outlets to get the 54 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: energy out. But I really resonated in music early on. 55 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: And then as I got into high school, they had 56 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: a high school radio station, so I signed up for 57 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: that and we used to broad a little bit slower. 58 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: So how old were you when you started to play drums? Eight? 59 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: Ten years old? Okay? Did you ever play with bands? 60 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: Try to played through the jazz bands in high school. 61 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: A few failed attempted rock bands that they never got far. 62 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: There wasn't really much of like a rock band music 63 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: scene in the suburbs. Of this would have been eighty 64 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: eight to ninety two ish. And do you have a 65 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: drum set today? I do not? I uh in college, 66 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: I took it with me to Santa Barbara. I played 67 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: a little bit, and this is right as I was 68 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: getting into concert promoting at school at Santa Barbara, and 69 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: I decided that I was just better at promoting events 70 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: than I was a drummer. I think many concert promoters 71 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: and people in the music business are failed musicians, so 72 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: they got onto the business side of the absolute We 73 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: all try yeah, and then woke up one day and 74 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: realized we didn't have What a total failure. Where are 75 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: those drums today? Sold long gone. I'm not a big 76 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: keeper of stuff, so like if I'm done the opposite, 77 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: I'm around my girlfriend crazy. But in any event, you're 78 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: in high school, you're in the band correct playing the 79 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: drums played jazz band, and the drums had to do 80 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: the orchestra band as requirement to get into jazz band. 81 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: Hated that, and we just put on headphones and play 82 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: along with rock tracks at home. At the time. What 83 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: music were you listening to at home? I think the 84 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: first really big band to me was the old Van 85 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: Halen the David Lee Roth Ara van Halen is like 86 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: the first thing that really what do you think about 87 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: Van Halen is they were a big band. These played 88 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: the star Wood, which no longer exists, and I went 89 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: to the Santa Monica Cific. This is a couple of 90 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: months before the first album came out, and they were 91 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: the opening band for Nils Loft Grin who came and 92 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: he would do his little flip on the mini tramp whatever. 93 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: And you laughed because people listen to the podcast may 94 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,559 Speaker 1: not be old enough to remember this band, Black Oak, Arkansas, 95 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: but the leader Jim Dandy, who had the same stick 96 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: as David Lee Roth, the long blondier the open Street 97 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: and I was laughing. And then of course the record 98 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: came out with Running with the Devil, and you go, wow, 99 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: this is great. Well, it just came down with the 100 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: guitar plane right right exactly, but it was it was 101 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: beyond that. Even the people who poo poo that sound 102 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: said that Eddie was a great guitar player. Okay, so 103 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: you were into uh van Halo, van Halen and and 104 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: that era of hard rock heavy metal at the time, 105 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: and then you know, I think around my junior year 106 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: of high school junior going to senior high school, Kurt 107 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: Cobain put out, uh, never mind, and that turned me 108 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: on my head. I went deep into the alternative scene. 109 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: As soon as I got to college, I got turned 110 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: onto hip hop. Um, and that was where I just 111 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: kind of got to see a lot more music happening 112 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: when it was, you know, once I got to school 113 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: at Santa Barbara. Okay, So when you're in high school, 114 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: you have no dream of being in the music business, 115 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: or do you. I don't know that headed dreams for anything. 116 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: At that point, I was just finding my way. I 117 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed doing music. I enjoyed doing the radio station. Um, okay, 118 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: so what I mean? But this was much more sophisticated 119 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: than my era. There was a high school radio station 120 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: casey e Q Rock of the Dons. And how far 121 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: away could you hear it? At least to the parking lot. 122 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: You remember how many watts it had? I don't. I 123 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: I remember, like, I'm not sure you could have gotten 124 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: it at the other side of town. It was really 125 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: not it was it was more of a of a 126 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: hobby than it really was. We were actually entertaining anybody 127 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: out there. But um, I pursued it with a lot 128 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: of passion. We definitely worked on my playlist every day. 129 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: So how often what were the hours of the station? 130 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: It would run from, you know, like late periods of 131 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: the afternoon into I think the last show ended up 132 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: at like ten o'clock at night really, so it was 133 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: like a regular way to Yeah, you're a kid, you 134 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: had like a two hour shift, maybe three hour shifts 135 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: something like that. But you must have been pretty passionate 136 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: to be involved. Loved it, loved it. I think it 137 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: was the president of the Radio Club or whatever they 138 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: called it at that time. So you go to Santa 139 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: Barbara with a you know, once one goes to college, 140 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: it's a reset and you can join or not join. 141 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: What did you then do to further your music career? First? 142 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: Did you? Did you join the radio station? I did not. 143 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: I looked at it. It was a little too um 144 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: at that point. It was a little too alternatives that 145 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: the right word. It was just a little too left 146 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: for me with the political views and it with the 147 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: snobbery of the music and that kind of stuff. It was. 148 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: I just didn't get the right vibe from it when 149 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: I first checked it out, and I didn't really kick 150 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: the tires that hard because you also had to start 151 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: out with shows that were like at two in the morning, 152 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: because it was put in your dues and I probably 153 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 1: wasn't that interested in it. Um. Actually further the music 154 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,799 Speaker 1: interest kind of on accident. So my freshman year of college, 155 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: I went through fraternity rush in the spring and I 156 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: hated it and it just wasn't my scene. I didn't 157 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: like it. And at that point I was looking around 158 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: what to do, and my friend who lived on my 159 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: floor at the door and said, hey, come check out 160 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: the programming committee. Um, there's some jobs open there. My 161 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: buddies on it. They do all kinds of stuff, And 162 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: I said, why not. I went down and checked it 163 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: out and filled out an application. It was hired on 164 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: as the movie coordinator, so I booked movies that would 165 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: happen on campus every year. But as soon as I 166 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: got in the door for that, I fully locked in 167 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: on the guy who was booking concerts. I said, what's 168 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: that's all about? I was super interested in it still 169 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: right in. It's how I learned to use Excel to 170 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: do budgeting. Um, I learned how to you know what 171 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: the poll star thing was all about and start so 172 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: you go at the end of your freshman year, did 173 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: you book movies? I did, and that would be just 174 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: what would be the economics of that? That was more 175 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: for what I think for most colleges, it was more 176 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: of just a lost leader of entertainment on campus. We 177 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: charged a couple of bucks to get into the IV 178 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: theater um and we do you know, new releases. A 179 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: lot of the movie companies would say, hey, we want 180 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: a premiere this movie, and they do free premiers to 181 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: kind of get the word of mouth going with college kids. 182 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: And then we'd also run you know, second run films 183 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: in there that kind of had some you know how 184 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: much marketing and promotion was there for those films. It 185 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: was a lot of hand to hand. It was kind 186 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: of good early early concert promoting training. I did a lot. 187 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: I did a lot of walking around campus with flyers 188 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: and putting up posters. Still probably have a couple of 189 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: staple guns in the garage. Okay, so how long before 190 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: you start to become active in the contract end of it? Uh? 191 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: The following year when they opened up the concert promoter job, 192 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: I applied for that and got that, So I ended 193 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: up promoting shows. You became the concert promoter. So there 194 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: was you know, there was a concert promoter job within 195 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: the program where there was a movie program or a 196 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: concert promoter, a production guy, a marketing guy, uh, you know, 197 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: kind of what would be a business affairs type person 198 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: who would handle the contracts and the organization internal organization. 199 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: So I applied for the concert promoter, which is really 200 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: becoming the buyer. But I really immersed myself in the 201 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: whole thing. One would think that would be a desirable job, 202 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: that other people would want that job. There was a 203 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: bunch of people who were into it. The guy who 204 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: had the job became before me. I became friends with 205 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: really quick and just kind of I was all over 206 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: him my first year when I was doing the movies 207 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: about concerts. And I don't know if I was a natural, 208 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: but I was certainly like chasing that thing pretty vigorously. 209 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: So I think there were a few other people that 210 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: applied for it, but at that point I had had 211 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: the experience in the tenure on the program board and 212 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: lit and behold, they got the job. Okay, So, so 213 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: you really didn't work on concerts before you got that job. Lets, 214 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: so you got the job, what's the first thing you 215 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: have to do books and bands. So so you know 216 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: many I went to a small college and there were 217 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: certain times a year when they booked named talent. It 218 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: was like three times a year. How many slots were there. 219 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: At UCSB, we had more of a pot of money, 220 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: and whatever the pot was, we could book bands until 221 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: we were out of money, and at the end of 222 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: the year whatever, some amount of money was all back 223 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: for the big spring show. So if we book shows 224 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: and we figured out how to make money or lose 225 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: less on them, it was we had to keep going. 226 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: So um I started booking bands. If we made money 227 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: on shows, we put it back. So the first year 228 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: you did In the second year, how many shows did 229 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: you actually book? Probably did about four or five shows 230 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: in my first year. Okay, so knowing people in the business, 231 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a middle agent to book those shows, No, sir, 232 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: just for those people don't know a lot of colleges, 233 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: they don't deal directly with W M. E or CIA. 234 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: There are people who who are middle men who booked 235 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: those shows. But you didn't do that. No. I I 236 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: don't know if it was as much of a scene 237 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: was in college, but I never they had they had 238 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: some middleman type agencies called Nakpa that would like he 239 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: could go. Well, that was a convention where you could 240 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: go and you could see all the talent and meet 241 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: all the people. Correct, it was Nacka, not na Um. 242 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: But uh I called I got up polls Star, and 243 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: I called up Frank Riley at are your peninicial Artists 244 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: and said, we'd like to book Fish at UC Santa 245 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: Barbara And they were doing a college tour. Do you 246 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: remember just would have been nineteen four, okay, relatively early 247 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: in Fisher's tenure. Correct, So the the programming committee already 248 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: had a subscription to poll Star. That's how you were 249 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: aware of that. Correct. So you call up Frank and 250 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: Frank says, what UH send in the offer? We're doing 251 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: a college tour. Get me these dates. So put together 252 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: everything facts in the offer because it was pretty email. 253 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: Uh probably called Frank once a week for the next 254 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: three four or five weeks, just probably mostly annoying him 255 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: because there was no answer. They just hadn't finished routing 256 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: and pulled part of your personality, how much does your 257 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: relentlessness figure into ultimate success? Well, in this particular case, 258 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: it probably almost figured into my failure because I think 259 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: Frank was getting tired of hearing from me at the time. 260 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: But um, eventually we confirmed the date and it's sold 261 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: out and which was how many people people? Four thousand 262 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: people played the events center there. Do you remember how 263 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: much you charged? No if I had a guest somewhere 264 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: around twenty bucks and you booked Fish because you were 265 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: a fan or you knew they would sell uh, because 266 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: they were So I was not a huge jam guy, 267 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: but I mean it was well aware of Fish and 268 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: somebody maybe somebody turned me onto the opportunity that they 269 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: were gonna be touring. So I just started chasing it down. 270 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: And so you have that's your first gig, so you 271 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: must be feeling like a million bucks. Well yeah, until 272 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: the show played and then we got overrun by Fish fans. 273 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: I was not very popular on campus after they played, 274 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: because you know, Fish is actually very prepared band, even 275 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: even in the early days. They had great road people 276 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: and they did pretty thorough security advances because of the scene. 277 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: You know, it was very grateful dead esque and people 278 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: who have followed them on the road, and we had 279 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of you know, new age hip. He's taken 280 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: over you see Santa Barbara Campus and I don't think 281 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: the police department was particularly I don't know, it's probably 282 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: an extra thousand people around realized that didn't get into 283 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: the show. Yeah. Yeah, but the show was a financial success. 284 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: Where do you go from there? It was a winner. 285 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: So we did that and then I did shows with 286 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: We did Ben Harper, we did G Love I did 287 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: you know? At that point, I think I had started 288 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: in turning the Golden Voice in the summer, So that's 289 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: another Southern California promote. At one point I met Mitch Oakman, um, 290 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: and we started booking No Doubt, who was already a 291 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: pretty successful Southern California band in that scene. They were 292 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: playing and selling out thousand clubs throughout Southern California before 293 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: Tragic Kingdom came out. Um, So we had them on 294 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: sale and then Tragic Kingdom came out and just a 295 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: Girl was blowing up and so that sold out there. Um. 296 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: And they're actually the first band I did from clubs 297 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: to selling out twenty two thousand seats at Shoreline. Okay, 298 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: did you do anything that didn't work? Uh? Did we 299 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: do anything that didn't work? We had a pretty good 300 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: track record, did we Oh, we booked a Sponge show. 301 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: I got bullied into booking Sponge one point in time, 302 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: by whom the agent think just kind of like, hey, 303 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: we'll sell you some other stuff, but you got to 304 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: do this one. It's a big college tour. It's really 305 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: important to us, and and that one didn't work so well, 306 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: and we had a widespread panic show that didn't work 307 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: so good as well. Okay, now you're starting from zero 308 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: and it's a bullying business, so you must have learned 309 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: a few lessons along the way there in college. Yeah. Honestly, 310 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: when you're in college here it's a you could be 311 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: a bit more irravulant because I wasn't at that point 312 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: thinking of it as a career. So it was sometimes 313 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: easier to say no to certain agents as opposed to 314 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, in the relationships where we have with a 315 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: William Moore associated now, where you want to be full 316 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: service and try and help them out with a lot 317 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: more even though you know or don't feel it's gonna work. 318 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: So what were the lessons you learned promoting in college? 319 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: I think really how to be utilitarian about it, so 320 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: you know, we'd go out and hand out flyers, try 321 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: and sell tickets. I learned about ticket printing. You know, 322 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: at that time it was still a hard ticket business 323 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: on campus. It was an electronic system. So I had 324 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: to learn a little bit about the ticketing business. I 325 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: had to learn a little bit about production. I had 326 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: to learn a little bit abou settlement and get myself 327 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: proficient enough to come off as we were quasi professionally 328 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: presenting these concerts. And at what point do you wake 329 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: up and say, WHOA, this might be a career. It's 330 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: very clear moment for me. So spring of nineteen nineties six, 331 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: we're in your college career, my senior year, so I'm 332 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: going to be graduating. Uh. That June I went to 333 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: the career center on campus and I remember flipping through 334 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: this binder and they have the companies that are coming 335 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: to interview on campus and what kind of jobs they have. 336 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: And I was flipping through, flipping through, flipping through, and 337 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: then I said, you know, if I leave right now, 338 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: I can go and work on that budget for the 339 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: three leven Farside cypercill tour that Caro Lewis had called 340 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: me about. And uh, I closed the book and went 341 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: and did that and never did anything. At that point. 342 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: I was all in on concerts. Okay, so you graduate, 343 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: what is your next job? I started it at Bill 344 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: Graham Presents three days after I graduated. How did you 345 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: get the gig so um backing up before that my 346 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: after my junior year, I or spring of my junior year, 347 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: and uh and some that summer I had talked my 348 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: way into an internship with Paul to let Rick van 349 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: Stanton a Golden Voice. So I cut class three days 350 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: a week in the spring and drove to l a 351 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: and would work out of the Golden Voice office. And 352 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: then as soon as classes friends couches that I do 353 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: in l a UM and so I'd work for them 354 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: in the spring and and and then the summer. And 355 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: which was like the best next step for learning because 356 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: had I intern at a company like Bill Cranbers, because 357 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: Bill gran Presents, I would have been in the back 358 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: and their poster archives finally posters all summer, wouldn't wouldn't 359 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: have had the access sitting literally right in between Rick 360 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: and Paul. I got to prepare offers for them. I 361 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: got to see how they do settlements. I got to 362 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: see watch them do a lollapaloos a year um, you know, 363 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: out of the field, and really get hands on and 364 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: get real jobs. I got to work the box office 365 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: Duke box office settlements. It was way more access than 366 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: a college kid was getting to professional concert promoting at 367 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: that point in time. So, um, you had Paul to Lett, 368 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: who ultimately went on as well. Both he and Rick 369 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: co founded Coachella and was as a visionary in our business. 370 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: But you had Rick and Paul and Moss Jacobs, who 371 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: I worked with again now all these years later. Um, 372 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: I got access to these guys and how they were 373 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: promoting their styles, and it was just an incredible learning experience. 374 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: So then I went back to Santa Barbara. We actually 375 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: ran the concert program in the Black the whole year, 376 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: uh that following year, and I think we probably did 377 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: close to twelve to fifteen shows that year for for concerts, 378 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: I mean, sorry for our college promoters, quite a bit 379 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: of shows. Um. So, as I was decided to try 380 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: to get into this business, I went to see Paul 381 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: t as they were opening up the Glass House out 382 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: in Pomona and gave them the big pitch that I 383 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: wanted to be in the business. And at that point 384 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: in time, they just weren't in a fine financial position 385 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: to hire me on full time, and I said, great, 386 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: if you can give me a reference as I go 387 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: hunter round for whoever else is out there, I'd appreciate it. 388 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: So my production managers girlfriends father was friends with Greg 389 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: pearl Off, who was running bill Gram Presents. So it's 390 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: all about the connections, all about the well anyway, I've 391 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: i've i've, you know, fact in a resume cold the 392 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Bill Gram Presents. Uh. One day and UH to Greg 393 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: and UH said, hey, I'd be interested in working here. 394 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: And I know, uh, your friends, uh daughter who knows 395 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: my production manager, and I really love concerts, and I'd 396 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: like to work at bill Gram Presents and send in 397 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: with my resume. And I remember on a Friday afternoon, 398 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: I got a call from Greg when I was probably 399 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, two beers, two beers or into the afternoon 400 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: and eating a bowl aposta in my apartment and uh 401 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: and you know, as you often did at the UC 402 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara, and uh he flew me up for an interview, 403 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: and I went up there to interview. Uh. This is 404 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: obviously in the spring of nine. I had a good interview. 405 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: I brought, you know, I brought my my show file 406 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: from the Big Fish jo a done and having worked 407 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: the summer Golden Voice, I felt like I had a real, 408 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 1: you know, professional looking show file, which it was probably 409 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: it was probably in a pretty good shape. And I 410 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: remember sitting in an office with Greg pearl Off, Sherry Wasserman, 411 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: and Lee Smith, and Sherry looked through the Fish show 412 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: file where they're asking me with questions, and she told 413 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: me years later that one of the reasons they hired 414 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: me is because I had kind a better deal than 415 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: they did on Fish. They had done the U. C. 416 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: Davis show themselves, and I got Santa Barbara. So she said, 417 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, you actually looked like you know what you're 418 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: doing for a college kid. So worked out pretty good. Okay, 419 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: But you know you said, Golden Voice couldn't afford you. 420 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: It couldn't for me. They just weren't. They weren't. They 421 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: just weren't in a position to hire. It wasn't like 422 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: I was negotiating. Was just like, we don't understand, but 423 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: B G P had an opening or they made an 424 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: opening for you. Uh, maybe a little bit of both. 425 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: In a sense. I think there had been some talk 426 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: about hiring somebody young that they could bring in as 427 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: an assistant and groom into a booker for the department, 428 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: and I presented the right opportunity in case at the 429 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: right time, and it was the gig. I started out 430 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: as Lee Smith's assistant in the booking department, and I 431 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: was pretty active about um learning everything I could. When 432 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: I got to Bill gram Presents, uh, you know, listening 433 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: on all his phone calls, whether he knew it or not, 434 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: and uh learned how he talked to agents, learned about 435 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: booking bands, kind of learned what different agent styles were about, 436 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: and again kind of further further to my knowledge base 437 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: of you know, how they how they process contracts, how 438 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: they built show budgets, how they you know, executed shows, 439 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: and the Bill Graham way of doing things. Now you 440 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: start in the spring of at the end of nine 441 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: s comes the famous roll up by Sillerman into Clear 442 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: Channel where he buys multiple promoters within they bought Bill Graham. Correct. 443 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: It was It was about a year, about a year 444 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: into my tenure there that Bob Stillman came along and he, 445 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, I think we were bilgram Presents was probably 446 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: in the middle of the middle of that row of acquisitions. 447 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: Somewhere in there. I don't but you know it wasn't 448 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: at the very beginning, but it certainly wasn't the last 449 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: of them either. Okay, so you worked there for a 450 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: year and you slowly gained more responsibilities, I would assume. Yeah, 451 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: about a year and a half in they started letting 452 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: me book my own shows. Um I think I was 453 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: a full time talent buyer there. Okay, could you book 454 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: at any of their venues or you do? It's got 455 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: specific venues to book. Uh. You know, when you first 456 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: start out, they give you a kind of maybe the 457 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: less desirable agents to work with. Um. I booked a 458 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: lot of third party venues. Michael Bailey was pretty much 459 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: the exclusive booker at the Fillmore on Warfield at that 460 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: point where they're which is where their main two clubs. 461 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: Um So I didn't really do anything there, but I 462 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: think one of the first shows I booked for Bill 463 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: Represents was BB King at the Paramount Theater. Um. But 464 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: it was it was actually kind of a good, uh 465 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: good way to cut my teeth because I learned how 466 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: to book R and B and blues, I learned how 467 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: to book Lyle love It and a lot of the 468 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: M O R stuff, you know. Coming out of college, 469 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: it was a kid who loved Nirvana and indie music 470 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: and hip hop like learning these other genres of music 471 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: that I wasn't really that turned onto. Uh. It was 472 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: a good way to become a more well rounded promoter 473 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: and understand the business. Okay, so you're working at Bill Graham, 474 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: it ultimately gets brought by Sillerman. How do you end 475 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: up working what results as Live Nation today? For me, 476 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: it was just pretty much a steady arc through all 477 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: of that that I call I always generally refer to 478 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: it as the consolidation roller coaster. So Bob Stillerman and 479 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: the original SFX came in and bought all the promoters. 480 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 1: He flipped that to Clear Channel Radio. Clear Channel Radio 481 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: stuck with it for a number of years and then 482 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: will eventually spun that company off into Live Nation. The 483 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: big reason Clear Channel Radio spun off Live Nation is 484 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: that when they acquired it, it was all on the 485 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: concept that there's going to be synergy between sponsorships of 486 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: what we can sell in the concerts, and we'll be 487 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: able to take our clout with artists and help generate 488 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: more concerts, will generate more sponsorship, and we'll grow the 489 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: business that way. At the time, the business wasn't predictable 490 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: enough that you know, concert promoter years could be very 491 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: spiky in terms of revenue and profitability, and for a 492 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: public company at that point in time, it was really 493 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: difficult for them to get their head around it because 494 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: Clear Channel was kind of a straight line of growth 495 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: and at that time what was either Clear Channel Entertainment 496 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: or that part of the division would be very up 497 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: and down year over year in that economy. So I 498 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: think there became a frustration that they weren't it was 499 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: hurting the overall Clear Channel performance. UM. Their frustration grew 500 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: within that because nobody UM seemed to be able to 501 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: kind of get their arms around and get a consistent 502 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: result out of the concert company. So they spun that 503 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: off and that was around the same time that uh, 504 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: Michael Roppino came in and took hold of what them 505 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: became Live Nation UM when they finally gave it the 506 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: new name, and Michael has done a great job with 507 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: its sense. So you were at Bill Graham, how do 508 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: you move up the food church just buying shows. I've 509 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: been fortunate of a lot of good circumstance and opportunities, 510 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: so I've put in a lot of hard work but 511 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: so I came into the department and Lee Smith and 512 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: Sherry Ossman were booking most of the shows throughout San Francisco, 513 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: and that was from everywhere from theater stuff up to 514 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: Shoreland Amphitheater and the stadium shows. Um I'd say right 515 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: around the time I got promoted, UM, Lee Smith had 516 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: kind of a change of heart in terms of what 517 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: he was focusing on, and he left the day to 518 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: day booking department to go work on new business development. 519 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: So it then became mean Cherry Wasserman booking most of 520 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: the shows in there, and at that point Sherry was 521 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: probably focused a bit more on passion projects and interesting 522 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: projects that she was on day to day stuff. So 523 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: I was essentially the you know, nine to five guy 524 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: in the office picking up the phone. And I just 525 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: was so in love with getting out offers and promoting 526 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: shows that it was really this wide open opportunity for 527 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: me to promote as much as I could in my career. 528 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: So not a lot of people get there. I mean, 529 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: you hear far more stories about people having to compete 530 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: for their lane. I had a different opportunities that, you know, 531 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: this unique opportunity where I didn't have to compete with 532 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: people within the company to get my you know, my 533 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: lane of talent. And I just got to do a 534 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: ton of shows across a lot of different genres, and 535 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: I had the support of Sherry. We would work together 536 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: and whatever Greg was working on, And those guys turned 537 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: me onto their relationships of people they had worked with 538 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: a long time and probably some of the fun most 539 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: fun I've ever had in the business. And how do 540 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: you end up in the main office in Los Angeles. 541 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: So as the consolidation happened and it rolled out, UM 542 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: Greg and Sherry left around two thousand three to start 543 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: another Planet Entertainment. Um Lee came back out of the 544 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: out of the business development world of what he was 545 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: doing UH and was running the office. I was working 546 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: with him booking shows. I eventually got promoted to run 547 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: the San Francisco office UH there and in two thousand eight, 548 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: Jason Garner, who was running Live Nation for North America 549 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: at the time and as a friend of mine who 550 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: I had started doing Latin shows with in San Jose 551 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: when he was a local promoter in Northern California, UH, 552 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: recruited me to come down and oversee the Los Angeles office. 553 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: In addition, to still having some oversight of San Francisco. 554 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: So in two thousand and eight, I had the opportunity 555 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: to come to l A. Uh. My wife is from 556 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: Redondo Beach. We talked it over and it's kind of 557 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: a good time in life. With our daughter about to 558 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: go into the school, going to school, she was four 559 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: years old. We said, you know, we've been in San 560 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: Francisco for a while. It's spent my entire life except 561 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: for college, up in in Northern California, and it just 562 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: felt like the right time to make a move. And 563 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: it was a good job opportunity down here. So you 564 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: work for a Live Nation how long, well, if you 565 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: count their early days counting Los Angeles, how long you 566 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles two thousand and eight to two thousand 567 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: eleven for a Live Nation? Okay, and then you leave 568 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: to go to a g correct And what is the 569 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: job they're offering you at a When I was leaving 570 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: Live Nation at that point, the economy kind of rode 571 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: the economy down when I moved to Los Angeles. You know, 572 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: the bottom fell out in two thousand eight, and it 573 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: was pretty bad. You know, it was a tough time 574 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: in the concert business from eight to two thousand eleven, 575 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: a lot of belt tightening going on at a public 576 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: company in terms of there was ten percent layoffs of 577 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: couting back staff weren't selling. They weren't selling and um. 578 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: You know, that was the early days of the Ticketmaster merger, 579 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: and there was a little bit of competition I think 580 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: between A's Off and Rappino, and being right in the 581 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: middle of that l A got to be a tricky navigation. 582 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: So I just was a little bit burnt out on 583 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: that part of the job and running that business UM 584 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: and wanted to start working on different projects and step 585 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: away from the scenario that I was in. So I 586 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: called Paul to Let who I used to intern with, 587 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: and we started talking about opportunities and he UM he 588 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: helped facilitate a discussion with a g which owns Golden Voices, 589 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: and I went over there to start working on projects 590 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: with Paul and the Golden Voice team throughout. So he 591 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: did not go all over as any kind of hands 592 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: on booker. You were going over with what to go. 593 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: I went over to book and do create new projects. 594 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: And I also they needed some help organizing their UM 595 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: some of their venue platforms and stuff in l A, 596 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: so I came UM to help them a little bit 597 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: run the Golden Voice business and really to focus on 598 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: new projects. Okay, and then how do you end up 599 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: being head of North America. So in two thousand and thirteen, 600 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: I think Randy Phillips was let go and so was 601 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: Tim Lowicky Ja Marciano was brought back from running the 602 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: O two in London to oversee a G Live at 603 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: the time, which now presents UM, and he put myself 604 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: UH in as President of North America. So I had 605 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of come in saying I want to get out 606 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: of running the day to day operations and budgeting and 607 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: forecasting and the business side of UH of Concert Pony 608 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: and focus a little bit more on events UM. I 609 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: did that for a year and a half. Two years 610 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: the change happened in management and Jay said, hey, I'd 611 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: really like you to take on this role overseeing the 612 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: entire country. I had connected with Jay when he came 613 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: back to a G just in a very social way 614 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: and we we connected. So when he asked me to 615 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: take the job, obviously it's a very good job. It's 616 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: back to more towards what I had been doing it liveation. 617 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: But I wasn't opposed to it, and I felt good 618 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: about jumping right back in. We're having a good time 619 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: talking about the music business. Rick Mueller and me. Let's 620 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: pause for a moment, get right back into it. Thanks 621 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: for listening to this week's edition of the Bomb Left 622 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: Sets podcast. If you want to see photos and videos 623 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: of my guests arriving in the Dude in studios here 624 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: in Venice, California, check out tune in dot com or 625 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: at tune in on Twitter and Instagram and now more 626 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: with a G presents North American President Rick Mueller. So, 627 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: I know that part of your job is to scout 628 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: and sign new venues. Correct, how much of your time 629 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: is that? Probably spent a third of my day thinking 630 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: about venue deals, where we're going to open them, where 631 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: new markets we can get in um acquisitions, or if 632 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna build them from the ground up. So how 633 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: many have you either purchased or started building on since 634 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: you've had this gig a dozen eight new venues? And 635 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: how do you decide um? There's a lot of variables. 636 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: I think what services in a marketplace? So some you 637 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: know there's an example of the venue you purchased. So 638 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: we bought two clubs in Richmond, Virginia and uh Norfolk 639 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: called the National and then orv a beautiful rock clubs. 640 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: So they existed pre existed. UM. The guys who built 641 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: them did a great job. I think they were probably 642 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: more visionary than they were business people, and they had 643 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: trouble with covering the financing and the debt was catching 644 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: up with them, and we started talking about with them 645 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: about UM coming to join a g and we looked 646 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: at that and in that case, we purchased two existing 647 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: clubs and we put our infrastructure behind it, and the 648 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: clubs are doing great today. UM. We just bought the 649 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: Agora Ballroom in Cleveland, Ohio, which was kind of a 650 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: storied one of the storied rock rooms in the early 651 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: days of rock and roll that has fallen off and 652 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: being you know, it's become a little bit dilapidated, and 653 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: we're renovate current renovating it right now and we'll reopen 654 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: it this uh the spring. We bought that building as well. 655 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: It turns out real estates in Cleveland is still more 656 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: affordable than Los Angeles. UM. And then we've done other 657 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: deals where we took over at lease at the Shrine 658 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: Auditorium here in Los Angeles where um after the Universal 659 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: Lampitheater went away and became a Harriet Potter ride. There's 660 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: obviously a hundred shows a year that uh, we're going 661 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: on up at the Universal Lampatheater that we're going to 662 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: be up for grabs. You know, they're really not making 663 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: a whole lot of new six thousands the venues in 664 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: Los Angeles these days. So we decided, uh, you know, 665 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: to go start having discussions with the shriner about taking 666 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: over that room. And I mean, ultimately, if you dig down, 667 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: there's a pretty storied history of rock and roll at 668 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: the Shrine as well. So I like old classic rooms 669 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: that you can be refurbished. When I had moved down 670 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: to Los Angeles for a two thousand eight for Live Nation, 671 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: I inherited the Palladium renovation which Brian Murphy, who was 672 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: the long time Avalon Tractions promoter, was working for Live 673 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: Nation and they SFS had acquired Avalon le Brian had 674 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: gotten the lease on the Pladium and there was a 675 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: renovation going on there. So I got to be barely 676 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: hands on on renovating the Hollywood Platium, which was absolutely amazing. 677 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: So when you make a decision, how much do you believe, 678 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: look into what the market can sustain, what the competition is. 679 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: What are the factors that go in to decide before 680 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: you put down your money. Well, number one, is it 681 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: a good room? You know, we've we've opened some good rooms, 682 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: we've opened some bad rooms. And there's nothing worse than 683 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: having to book a bad room once it's open, once 684 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: the you know, the word is out on the venue 685 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: and it either feels cold or it isn't well received. 686 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: So I do my best to make sure I feel 687 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: good that whatever the project is going to be, it's 688 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: a good room. Then you're gonna be looking at what's 689 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: the competition in the market, and that's going to dictate 690 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: how much you can spend either renovate, rent by the venue, 691 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: and how good of a business opportunity it's going to 692 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: be for you. You say clubs, Now, in the old 693 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: days a club was somewhere between a hundred and fifty 694 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: and four hundred. What do you can sit? Now? They 695 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: called the Wilterner Club, which is almost two thousand. Do 696 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: you these these clubs that you talk about our what 697 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: size anywhere from twelve to three thousand seats? I would think, okay, 698 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: let's just go below that to what degree are you 699 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: involved in under twelve hundred seats at ag Uh, We've 700 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: got so. I mean we we have a lease on 701 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: the Roxy on Sunset Boulevards. So that's probably the smallest 702 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: club that we operate in Los Angeles that ultimately falls 703 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: under my world. UM So we do everything from We 704 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of those. We've got them in 705 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: l A, Denver, New York. Okay, so you're booking the Roxy. 706 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: Can you make at the end of the day, can 707 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: you make money at the Roxy? You can make a 708 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: few bucks. You have to be really tight and you 709 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: have to be very disciplined on it. But in l 710 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: A where it's very competitive and you want to get 711 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: in early with artists and you want to um so, 712 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, we call it building a vertical and get 713 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: them on the path through your venue system so you 714 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: can grow the band and stay with them through their career. 715 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: The Roxy's iconic. Um it's a great room for a 716 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: band to start out and have a first play. That 717 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: is call it more R and D. From our side 718 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: of the equation, we don't really look at it as 719 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: a huge profit center. We make a few bucks on it. 720 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 1: It's not what you know, I guess it's to our 721 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: budget every year for sure. Okay. Now, in the old days, 722 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: meaning the seventies, prior to the crash of two thousand 723 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: and Napster, the record companies supported all these clubs. They 724 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: bought tickets, they bought drinks, and that is how you 725 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: got act started. A that economic support doesn't exist anymore, 726 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: correct for the most part. Yeah, okay, but what do 727 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: you believe? I you know, I grew up in the 728 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: pre Internet era where you were staring at the four 729 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: walls and I gotta go out. I gotta have to 730 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: go here a band, okay, whereas today all the entertainment 731 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: is at home if you go back to the pre 732 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: BlackBerry area, so I have to go home and check 733 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: the email. But if I'm sitting at all, I have Netflix, 734 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: I have all these other things. Is there a business? 735 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: Is there an attraction of people going to hear either 736 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: unsigned or marginal talent in a live setting? Are you 737 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: asking the question is people want to just go out 738 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: for the sake of going out? Well, I'm actually asking 739 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: all of the questions. I want to end your your business. 740 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: Had I look at it this way? Okay? It used 741 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: to be in the seventies eighties, you went out, certainly 742 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 1: on the weekend, the bar had a band, The band 743 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: was tended to be covers unless they were a known entity, 744 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: and then there was a sheered, clear delineation between those 745 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: bands and bands that had record deals, where today anybody 746 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: can make and release their music. So if I went 747 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: to a bar now, chances are they would have a DJ. 748 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: I want to hear recognizable music as opposed to just 749 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: going to hear some unsigned band play their new music. 750 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: I don't think there's that strong as desire to do 751 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: that because there's so many other opportunities to entertain yourself. 752 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit different now because with 753 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: streaming services and where music is so ubiquitous that you 754 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: can find it anywhere, that bands are happening now before 755 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: you realize it. So when I first got into the 756 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: concert business, the l a Weekly in San Francisco, the 757 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: SF Weekly, and even the Chronicle Sunday Pink section with 758 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: the strip ads of what was playing at the film 759 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: wore was hugely important to kind of knowing what was 760 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: going on in town. And as you know, as the 761 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: smallest room that we ran in San Francisco was the 762 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: film where we look at what was playing Slims, we 763 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: played music Hall, Rick shall stop. In the smaller rooms, 764 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: you pay attention. You'd work the guys who booked those 765 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: rooms to what was selling out, what was hot. You 766 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: stay in touch with the agent so you'd have a 767 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: better understanding what then presented the film are. Um, Now 768 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: there's bands that can self promote their way into selling 769 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: out a night at the Roxy before most promoters are 770 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: even aware of it. Right, So we'll rent the room 771 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: to anybody who wants to come in and promote a 772 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: show and there, um, for the most part, that doesn't happen. 773 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: We have buyers to go in there. But now you 774 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: don't rely on the l a weekly. There's there's a 775 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: headline show for all of these bands that are essentially 776 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: baby bands. They don't need the label support to sell 777 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: five tickets at the Roxy anymore. Okay. Two things. So 778 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: you're saying, at this level the band has a built 779 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: the audience, absolutely, Okay, what if you do not have 780 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: a built in audience? Were not as much and we're 781 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: not booking in cover bands. But but but but forgiving you, 782 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about looking at the business at large. 783 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: If someone the old concept of Hey, I'm going out. 784 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to my local bar. I hear a band, 785 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: they're good, I start to follow them. Does that even exist? 786 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: I think the closest it really comes. You see a 787 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: lot at the House of Blues. They book like a 788 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: lot of Journey cover bands and and you know other 789 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: different style cover bands that are kind of like party 790 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: night of rock and roll, and they can do pretty 791 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: good business. Um, we don't do a lot of that 792 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: stuff because we're not just trying to do the turnstyle 793 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: business through our club, So we're really focused more on 794 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: actually asking in societal change. I understand the business, but 795 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: do you believe that on a raw percentage basis, fewer 796 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: people are going out in search of marginal live. Marginal's 797 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: got its own connotation, marginal live talent as they were before. 798 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think they're going out because 799 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: they're going to go see the band they want to see. 800 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,959 Speaker 1: I don't think they're going out just to explore music 801 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: for a night. Okay, so the bands they want to 802 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: see have built they're following online. Do you remember the 803 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: name of anybody you've booked at the Roxy who you 804 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: were unaware of? That comes with their own audience We 805 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 1: sold out two shows with Russ on the on sale 806 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: before anybody knew who Russ was. And Uh, one of 807 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: our guys who books hip hop uh at Golden Voice, 808 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, put these shows in there. Same with the 809 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 1: artist Black. These guys just blew out shows, um, long 810 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: before they were internet sensations, long before they were on 811 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: on radio. And how do your buyers become aware of them? 812 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: We've got a couple. Uh, We've got a lot of 813 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: buyers who just have their ear to the ground. That's 814 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: the new part of you know, the same way that 815 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: when I was twenty one coming out of college, he 816 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: had to work hard to keep your ear to the 817 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: ground and talk to the right people who were in 818 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: the scene, and study CMJ and study the that's a 819 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: college music journal. That was an old tip sheet and 820 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, you know, read the European magazines and 821 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: find out what was happening abroad and what you could 822 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: bring over and and now it's SoundCloud and various sites 823 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: that people go to. And Okay, so let's say one 824 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: of these acts plays the Roxy. What is the journey 825 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: for them? Well, the journey for them is we try 826 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: to help steer them through our venue vertical and and 827 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: get as many as we can in with their We 828 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: also out of Los Angeles, we have you know, Golden 829 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: Voice owes and operates Coachella. So you know, ultimately we're 830 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: trying to encourage bands to kind of be on the 831 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: path to Coachella. But do you believe any of the 832 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,959 Speaker 1: bands that play in the afternoon, not on the main 833 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: stage get a real benefit from playing a festival? A 834 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: festival or Coachella. Let's start with Coachella. I do think 835 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: bands get a benefit from playing that. Is that based 836 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: on being on the poster or is that based on 837 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: the actual performance? Both make no mistake. It is not 838 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 1: an easy set to play at two o'clock as a 839 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: young band in the desert if it's you know, one 840 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: of those hundreds green days out in the desert. But 841 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you can bring it and put in 842 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 1: a notable show, I think where the mouth starts growing 843 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: from there. I won't say that that's the same one 844 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: every festival. Can you name two acts that you feel 845 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: benefited from that? Coach call me on the spot. No. 846 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: The reason I mentioned is I don't really I can't 847 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: think of a single act that is broken from a 848 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: festival doesn't mean they haven't gotten some notoriety, but people say, oh, 849 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think the festival is almost like the 850 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: new south By Southwest, although you get paid. Okay, Now, 851 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: if you have an investment in the act and you 852 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: have the vertical and you're gonna put him in the 853 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: l Ray whatever, that's a different thing. But I have 854 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: not seen any man get a buzz at a festival 855 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: then ultimately become bigger. There's some acts that have general 856 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: buzz that have never boken through, like Gary Clark Jr. 857 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: And he plays all the festival, but he already had 858 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: visibility by time he played Coachella. Well, look, Stacy V 859 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: who works with Paul, has this phrase of that Paul 860 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 1: has been very good at buying cream bananas, so he 861 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: buys the banana when it's green, and by the time 862 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: Coachella plays, it's yellow. That visibility in the meaning the 863 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: visibilities happened. And a good example that be would have 864 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: been Gautier. He bought Gautier for an incredibly little amount 865 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: of money to play both weekends of Coachella, and then 866 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: the big song happened, and I think at that point 867 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: he had the number one single uh in the country. 868 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 1: The tent was packed, so you know, Gautier started happening 869 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: despite you know, before Coachella, but he had his eye 870 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: on there, so you know, did he break it? I 871 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: don't know that, Paul. That was a huge record that 872 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: Coachella was sure on top of the cake at best. Correct, 873 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: But fast forward that or changed that timeline by three months, 874 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: and you'd say he's breaking out of Coachella. Well, let's 875 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to go down because we 876 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: have so many acts in so many years, but let's 877 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: make it different terms of breaking an act today. Well, 878 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: I will also say, but the act was already broken 879 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: and known. But the legend of Daft Punk is because 880 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 1: of that set they played at Coachella twelve years ago. Yeah, 881 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: but it was a headlining set. Well, but I'm standing like, 882 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: from how big Daft Punk was at that time to 883 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: the general public, how big how big they are today? 884 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: I agree totally. Are we at peak festival? Are there 885 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,439 Speaker 1: any more festivals to be built? I think there's lots 886 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: of festivals to be built. I think the question is 887 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: how big they will become? How big in terms of 888 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: will they grow or will they intentionally be seen as 889 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: smaller niche festivals. So we just did the One Love 890 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: Festival down in Long Beach at the Queen Mary and 891 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: the Great Lawn they have out there. Um did fifteen 892 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: thousand people a day with a mixture of different reggae bands. 893 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: And again I would not have guessed that the reggae 894 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,479 Speaker 1: scene was the strong enough in this day and age 895 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: to have sold out fifteen thousand tickets a day in 896 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen. Just doesn't seem like there's a 897 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: scene for that kind of music. So I think there 898 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: are niche festivals. You look at what Tim Sweetwood is 899 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: doing with the Shakingese Festival down in Atlanta, where it's 900 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: all guitar driven rock. There's no hip hop, electronic, other 901 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: genres within there. It's really kind of stays true to 902 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: guitar driven rock kind of build. Does he do He's 903 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know for sure because he doesn't report, 904 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: but I'm going to guess he's in the mid twenties. 905 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: With the sales. I don't know if in this day 906 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: and age, with the popularity of rock with youth culture, 907 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 1: if he's going to get to fifty thou people, but 908 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: if he's making money at twenty five people and he's 909 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: servicing the niche. I think that that's the future. If 910 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: he can make money at that, that's really smart. Okay, 911 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,400 Speaker 1: let's break it down the fifteen thousand who went to 912 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,760 Speaker 1: the reggae festival. How was the experience? Were you selling 913 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: food and obviously you're always selling food, but how much 914 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: was the band's on stage and how much was the environment. 915 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: I think the music is driving that one more because 916 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: nobody had been I mean, they the festival took place 917 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 1: once last year, but for the most part, people aren't 918 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: going to buy into the specific experience, So I think 919 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: that is being more musically driven. You know, Coachella is 920 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: more about the all companies experience Coachella, Lolla BLUSA and 921 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: maybe Austin city limits and maybe outside the lands which 922 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 1: those are established, those of go out Forever Coachella, the 923 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,240 Speaker 1: brand name being the progenitor of the Granddaddy Lalla Blues 924 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: are the great location in Chicago. Once we move from 925 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,840 Speaker 1: those four locations at that level, okay, where you're trying 926 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: to get, certainly in access of fifty people a day, 927 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: how many can our countries support. I think we're approaching 928 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: the plateau, right and the fact that I'm generally speaking, 929 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: let's leave Cogella a little bit aside, because it's really 930 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: kind of unique. But generally speaking, all of these festivals 931 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: have the same headliners now, so it used to be 932 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: you had to travel cross country to have the experience. 933 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: Now it's coming closer to you. I'd agree with it, 934 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: but I put the distinction as so Outside Lands is 935 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: an incredible experience, The site itself is incredible. Coachell is 936 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: an incredible experience, Lalla Blues is an incredible experience in 937 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: that park, Austin city limits, Austin an incredible party town, 938 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: Zilka Park is amazing. But past that, you know, like Bonnaroo, 939 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: I think it's ruggling a little bit because it's a 940 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 1: pure camping festival and in the heat and Tennessee, Um, 941 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 1: maybe it's lost a little bit of its identity as 942 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,359 Speaker 1: a camping festival and it's been a little bit up 943 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: and down the last couple of years. Doesn't mean it's 944 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 1: by means in the in the toilet are going away. 945 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 1: I think there's a huge following for Bonnaroo, but what 946 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: does it stand for and is the site special? Uh? 947 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: You look at one of my favorite festivals, his Electric Forests, 948 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 1: which a company that a g owns Madison House Productions. 949 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 1: Madison House Presents produces in partnership with the Soomniac. So 950 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: that one is up in uh up in uh Ro Rothberry, Michigan, 951 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: and I think is one of the most unique festivals 952 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,720 Speaker 1: presented in America today. It's electronic music meets jam bands, 953 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: so string, cheese and based nectar up there. But it 954 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: is so experiential in terms of what goes on in 955 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,439 Speaker 1: the forest because the for those who haven't been, it's 956 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: a festival that has three or four stages scattered throughout 957 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: the site that is intermixed with a lot of trees 958 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: and forestry there. So it's you're you're really weaving in 959 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: and out of an experience all day. And for me 960 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 1: when I go there, it's almost like, oh, there's a 961 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: there's bands playing. It's so much fun to wander in. 962 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,720 Speaker 1: Let's see the art that Jeremy Stein, who who produces 963 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: the festival, puts in every year. He brings in you know, 964 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,439 Speaker 1: Carni traders who have like you know, I could take 965 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: my cell phone and you know leave with a bow 966 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: and arrow if I want to like trade my way 967 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: through the the trading shop the trading post shop and 968 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: he is producing an experience every Saturday night as the 969 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: Pittical Moment with string cheese that is fireworks and acrobats 970 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: and it's really immersive for the weekend. So you know, 971 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,919 Speaker 1: if you're into that kind of camping festival, that's that's 972 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: a festival that's growing. You know, we've gone for one 973 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: weekend selling out a month in advance to adding a 974 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: second weekend. So I do think that there's growth. But 975 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: I think you have to really stand for something. I 976 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: think your site has to be great. I think the 977 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: experience has to be great. Um, otherwise it's going to 978 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: be harder to achieve the scale to get up to 979 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 1: where kind of these you know, highly law at festivals. 980 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 1: Let's go back to Bonaru. Did Bonaro lose cashe and 981 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 1: audience because it muddied the water of what it was 982 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,399 Speaker 1: about it? Originally it was a jam band festival, then 983 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 1: it just became another festival with bands in Tennessee, It's 984 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,920 Speaker 1: possible they pivoted from jam bands pretty early on to 985 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're gonna be a jam band festival, 986 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: the talent pool is pretty shallow of headliners that can 987 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: really drive people to your festival. So I think Bonro 988 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,799 Speaker 1: did a good job of pivoting into general use. I think, 989 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: but when they were at their height, there was nothing 990 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: else throughout the south there, and now there's so much more. 991 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: You've got you know, Okachobes, and you've got the Hangout 992 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,800 Speaker 1: Festival down in Atlanta, You've got uh down to the 993 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: Gulf Shores, You've got Shaking Knees and Atlanta, you've got 994 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, festivals to the north of you know, gov 995 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,399 Speaker 1: Ball and Firefly, and there's stuff litter all over, so 996 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, you're competing for a lot more So how 997 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 1: does Bonnaro distinguish itself as a festival from these other things? 998 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: Because Chance the Rapper, you know, is an act the 999 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: people will point to play a lot of festivals. Last year, 1000 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, Florence and the Machine had played a lot 1001 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: of festivals. Outcast play a lot of festivals. L c 1002 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,399 Speaker 1: D shows up on a lot of festivals. So you're 1003 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: right and that these bands are playing a circuit of 1004 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: festivals and it's great, but doesn't mean the festival experience 1005 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: can't be great. So okay, So as we move forward, 1006 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: is it going to be a hundred thousand people in 1007 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: a field seeing headliners, or is it going to be 1008 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: more about each festival is branded based on the experience. Well, 1009 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: I think the bigger ones are going to be all 1010 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: about the experience, and they're gonna have to be great 1011 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,439 Speaker 1: musically and have to stand for something, but they're also 1012 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,480 Speaker 1: going to have to have a great experience to kind 1013 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 1: of sustain at that hundred thousand person level, because if 1014 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: you're just talking about a band selling a hundred thousand tickets, 1015 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: you're really talking about stadium shows, right, I'm not talking 1016 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: about that. Let's go back to the festival. I remember 1017 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,879 Speaker 1: this is probably six or seven years ago. Headliner night 1018 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,200 Speaker 1: to at Coachella was Radiohead. They came, they brought their 1019 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,800 Speaker 1: arena show, which means it's small for an audience of 1020 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: sixty people, and they host to audience. Everybody was going 1021 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: to the Sahara tent for the electronic music, dance music, 1022 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 1: ETCETERA question becomes in the festival experience. How important is 1023 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,800 Speaker 1: the DJ the electronic music experience depends on your festival, 1024 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,279 Speaker 1: I suppose. I mean, there's no doubt that electronic music 1025 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: is incredibly popular at Coachella. But you know, back going 1026 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: back to my reference of Timmis Sweetwood. It well, let's 1027 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,600 Speaker 1: put it this way there, Coachella and I only focused 1028 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: on this primarily because it's your company. Uh. Coachella had 1029 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,279 Speaker 1: a long history of reuniting legendary rock bands. So in 1030 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 1: the last last year, in this year, there seems to 1031 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: be a pivot to more modern acts. So the question 1032 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: would be, have we seen the sunset on festivals of 1033 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 1: old acts and is it really now about present day acts? Okay, 1034 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 1: so in the last three years, a C d C 1035 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,840 Speaker 1: and Guns and Rose's headline coach Ella, Yes, but that 1036 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,359 Speaker 1: was two years ago. Last year, Uh, And my point, 1037 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, most of the eventional wisdom that A C 1038 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,399 Speaker 1: d C was a bust, and when you go last 1039 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,800 Speaker 1: year it ended up being Gaga, and this year it's Beyonce. 1040 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: That's a far cry from A C d C and 1041 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: Guns and Roses. So you're in a very short period 1042 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 1: of time there have been rock bands headlining. No, I 1043 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 1: believe you know, I discussed this when you discussed with Paul. 1044 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: You know, I believe two or three years ago, two 1045 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,400 Speaker 1: years ago, Bieber should have been the headliner, and everybody said, no, 1046 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: that's crazy. I think if you were willing to do 1047 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: it and I said, hey, Biber is gonna be the 1048 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: headline today. It would be a matter of negotiating the money. 1049 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,359 Speaker 1: I think they look the interesting part in the tricky part, 1050 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 1: and this is certainly don't speak for Paul because he's 1051 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,279 Speaker 1: done incredible job curating Coachella for twenty years. But also 1052 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: Coachella sells out with no lineup announced. But if you 1053 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,280 Speaker 1: don't do a good job every year and it becomes stale, 1054 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: people will move on. He's you know, we're still selling 1055 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,279 Speaker 1: out in advantage. But let's not make it about coach. 1056 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,359 Speaker 1: Let's just make it about a change of the audience. Sure. 1057 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: I think that the important part to focus on air 1058 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: is that as hip hop has become more popular and 1059 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,320 Speaker 1: pop has become more popular because music is so ubiquitous 1060 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 1: an easy to get hold of, like a pop act 1061 00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,200 Speaker 1: as a hip hop act, and hip hop act could 1062 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 1: be a pop act there collaborating together. The boundaries between 1063 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: genre are much more gray now than they were, But 1064 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 1: it's very different from reuniting an act from the sixties, 1065 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 1: seventies or eighties. It seems like there's a giant transition 1066 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: between the heritage acts and the acts of now, and 1067 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: that this is the summer when the festival. People are saying, no, 1068 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 1: if you're an old act, you can play the areena, 1069 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: you can play your own audience. But it comes to 1070 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: the festival, it's a younger audience and they want to 1071 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: see these younger acts, whether they be hip hop or pop. Well, 1072 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: there's no doubt. I mean, I don't know if there's 1073 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 1: as much of an appreciation for some of the classic 1074 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 1: rock stuff from what's generally called it the millennial generation 1075 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,879 Speaker 1: as previous generations before that. You know, I mean even 1076 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: Radioheads a classic rock band at Coachella, right, But you know, 1077 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 1: relatively recent Radiohead and Coldplay and Dave Matthews Beings were 1078 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,040 Speaker 1: the last bms to break through on v H one 1079 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,799 Speaker 1: for the whole thing blew apart. They were there. They 1080 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: were beneficiaries of the monoculture. But let's let's switch gears 1081 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: a little bit more. Okay, so I'm a concert goer, 1082 00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:02,719 Speaker 1: let's explain the economics of the con business generally speaking, 1083 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 1: or Michael Rapino's head of Live Nation, he would say, 1084 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,720 Speaker 1: if I don't pay the act, somebody else will. There's 1085 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,320 Speaker 1: always someone who will pony up without money a casino 1086 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,120 Speaker 1: or something. Do you agree with that, Yes, okay. They 1087 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,640 Speaker 1: will also say that generally speaking, once we get to 1088 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,360 Speaker 1: a name talent, let's not talk about the bands that 1089 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: are selling the roxy or even playing these clubs. But 1090 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 1: once you're getting to an arena level act that generally speaking, 1091 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,440 Speaker 1: all of the money for the ticket revenue meaning not 1092 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,200 Speaker 1: the not the up charges, but the ticket revenue is 1093 00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: essentially going to the act. Correct. Okay, So explain the 1094 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: economics to my audience, because you obviously have a business. 1095 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,160 Speaker 1: We're making money, right, I guess as a general statement, 1096 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: the bigger the act is getting the more of the 1097 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,680 Speaker 1: lion's share of the ticket revenue they can command and 1098 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: a deal with either a SARTA Live Nation or any 1099 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,360 Speaker 1: promoter throughout the world. Promoters are making their money if 1100 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: they own an operative venue off of peanuts, popcorn and 1101 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: parking for them at part um. If we don't own venues, 1102 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 1: we try to make deals that scale up with artists, 1103 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: so we produce a Rolling Stones tour worldwide. So scaling 1104 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,320 Speaker 1: up meaning what uh I mean? We're we want to 1105 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: do all the dates with a band as opposed to 1106 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,319 Speaker 1: the traditional way. Um twenty years ago, was maybe even 1107 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,480 Speaker 1: thirty years ago. Is that acts were sold more market 1108 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 1: by market to the local promoter by an agent. And 1109 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: in this day and age of concerts, most artists sell 1110 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: tours that are arena size a bigger to a single 1111 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,560 Speaker 1: promoter who produced their tours uh nationally or internationally. So 1112 00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,200 Speaker 1: if you're gonna make less per show on doing an 1113 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,040 Speaker 1: artist because of the amount of money that the artist commands, 1114 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,760 Speaker 1: you want to do more shows to grow your business 1115 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,279 Speaker 1: and reach your budget every year. Let's assume you have 1116 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,719 Speaker 1: a international tour with one of these acts, you pay 1117 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 1: them a lump sum such that if there's some acts 1118 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: some dates that are very successful, others that are marginal losers, 1119 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,120 Speaker 1: it all comes out in the wash. I think every 1120 00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,440 Speaker 1: company has got their own model only I think Live 1121 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: Nations of a company and is very revenue driven. We're 1122 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,560 Speaker 1: maybe a bit more bottom line driven as a company. 1123 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,040 Speaker 1: You know, we approach everything at a g as can 1124 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,879 Speaker 1: we make money on this act. I don't think we're 1125 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,319 Speaker 1: necessarily looking at anything coming out in the wash. But 1126 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,319 Speaker 1: by no, make no mistake, we don't win on every 1127 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,279 Speaker 1: show that we go ahead and book. I mean it's 1128 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,600 Speaker 1: very much a risk business and it takes a big 1129 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,560 Speaker 1: stack of chips to sit at the poker table on 1130 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,919 Speaker 1: those games. But I say let's do them. I'm coming, 1131 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 1: I'm act X, and I make a deal with you 1132 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: for fifty million dollars. You're gonna pay me that fifty 1133 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,279 Speaker 1: million dollars and then a g Some some dates maybe 1134 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,160 Speaker 1: do better than others. Correct. If you own the building, 1135 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,120 Speaker 1: you have all the concessions, the parking, etcetera, etcetera. If 1136 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,319 Speaker 1: you don't own the building, explain to my audience how 1137 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 1: the ticketing fee revenue is split up. So we'll work 1138 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,000 Speaker 1: with the artist to set the ticket fee structure and 1139 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,680 Speaker 1: what tickets are ultimately going to cost our function of 1140 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,920 Speaker 1: you know, what the artist is trying to make, What 1141 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: it costs to operate the arena on a given night, 1142 00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:00,319 Speaker 1: what's marketing, backstage catering, security, stage hands, and so forth. 1143 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 1: So you're trying to generate a certain amount after you 1144 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,839 Speaker 1: pay off all those expenses, and you know, grows as 1145 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: much as as much money as you can to make 1146 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: as much money that you can split up with the artist. 1147 00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,280 Speaker 1: If you do a good job with it, here's money 1148 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,480 Speaker 1: to split up and everybody's making money. If you do 1149 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 1: a bad job of it, you've guaranteed an artists a 1150 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,520 Speaker 1: floor on that deal, and you're gonna be paying them 1151 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 1: whenever you guaranteed them and come up short for the night. Okay, 1152 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,759 Speaker 1: let's just say a ticket is a hundred dollars and 1153 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: there's twenty five dollars in fees. Where might those fees go? Well, 1154 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,360 Speaker 1: the fees go depend on the ticketing companies. Some buildings 1155 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,560 Speaker 1: own their own ticketing companies. Ticketmaster will make deals with 1156 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 1: buildings where they will give them advances or help them 1157 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: pay for capital projects, and in terms of keeping more 1158 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,319 Speaker 1: of the fee themselves, they'll rebate it to the to 1159 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,440 Speaker 1: the building. Sometimes the building will then incentivize either the 1160 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: artist or the promoter to come there with some of 1161 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,920 Speaker 1: those fees. It's just a different source of revenue that 1162 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,120 Speaker 1: comes into the game of how deals are made. Okay, 1163 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: but generally speaking, that's where the profit is the promoter 1164 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,800 Speaker 1: and then extra of the fees oftentimes yes, but uh, 1165 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,400 Speaker 1: but as you're talking about huge grosses and if you 1166 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,759 Speaker 1: do uh, you know, we did a really successful tour 1167 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,279 Speaker 1: with Holland Oates and Tiers for Fears last year. There 1168 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: was there was plenty of profit beyond ticketing fees with 1169 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,000 Speaker 1: the shows. Every show has made money at the end 1170 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,880 Speaker 1: of the day. And in those deals, well, you do 1171 00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,799 Speaker 1: an international tour, national tour, there's a guarantee. Is there 1172 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: also a percentage of upside? Correct? They get a split 1173 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:27,960 Speaker 1: at the back. Okay, let's go there, You and me. 1174 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,160 Speaker 1: You may or may not remember we're famous as a manager. 1175 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,640 Speaker 1: Bruce Allen and Bruce Allen manages, amongst other people, Michael 1176 00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,000 Speaker 1: Bubley and Brian Adams. He's based out of Vancouver. This 1177 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,839 Speaker 1: happened to be Canadian Acts. And he said, hey, Bob, 1178 00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,319 Speaker 1: I'm always and Bruce a very smart guy. And Bruce said, 1179 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying something. I'm putting out Brian Adams with uh, 1180 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,680 Speaker 1: what's his name? Did uh? One bourbon, one Scotch and 1181 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 1: one beer? Church there? Okay, right, and you said it's 1182 00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,560 Speaker 1: not gonna work. Okay, What works and what doesn't work. 1183 00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:01,399 Speaker 1: That's the intangible of being a successful concert promoter. I'll 1184 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,279 Speaker 1: go back to the hollow notes. Teers refers to her 1185 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,040 Speaker 1: when that opportunity came across my desk, I looked at it, 1186 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,799 Speaker 1: and when it came across you was already hollow, notatees 1187 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,080 Speaker 1: and tears for fears. The bands were talking they wanted 1188 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,000 Speaker 1: to go out and to her. Their agent was out 1189 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: shopping the tour and discussing it with people, and I 1190 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,680 Speaker 1: was doing my homework. When the opportunity came up. We 1191 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 1: talked internally about what we thought we could sell, did 1192 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: some homework in various markets. Uh, And there was a 1193 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,120 Speaker 1: lot of people sitting on the fence, you know, like 1194 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,920 Speaker 1: it's it's not very hard to like identify that Beyonce 1195 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:33,520 Speaker 1: is going to sell a lot of tickets for their 1196 00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:38,200 Speaker 1: It's how how you can manipulate and maximize the deal 1197 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,680 Speaker 1: for the artist and to get earnest she's going to 1198 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,000 Speaker 1: do the business. Everybody knows Beyonce is gonna sell tickets 1199 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,600 Speaker 1: on hollow notes and tears for fears. It was a 1200 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,040 Speaker 1: bit more of a question of it was didn't seem 1201 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 1: like an automatic to everybody at first. So if they 1202 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,760 Speaker 1: say up front if they wanted to play big rooms, yes, 1203 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,560 Speaker 1: they were clear they wanted to go out and do arenas, 1204 00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,360 Speaker 1: and you know, then they had a price tag of 1205 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: what they were looking for. And in a competitive marketplace, 1206 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 1: you can't just assume that the other guys are going 1207 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,640 Speaker 1: to pass and you can low ball your way into 1208 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,600 Speaker 1: a deal. So we have to really do your research 1209 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 1: and feel confident about the bet that you're going to 1210 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,160 Speaker 1: put down. Okay, so walk us through the experience. So 1211 00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,880 Speaker 1: we we threw our hat in the ring. Live Nation 1212 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,160 Speaker 1: had done the previous tour with Hollow notatees in the amphitheaters, 1213 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:19,840 Speaker 1: but it was a bit of a different model, lower 1214 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,000 Speaker 1: ticket price, it wasn't grossing as high. Going into the 1215 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: arenas can come with more risk because they tend to 1216 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,919 Speaker 1: be more expensive to produce the shows. Um, we went 1217 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,320 Speaker 1: ahead and made the bid and came out on the 1218 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 1: right side of getting the deal. Um. At that point 1219 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,040 Speaker 1: I jumped in with Hollow Notates manager and and Tears 1220 00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: and Fierce manager and went ahead and got the marketing 1221 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,840 Speaker 1: plan together and launched that tour and ultimately people reacted 1222 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: well to the chemistry of the package. I mean, Hollow 1223 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,960 Speaker 1: Notates three years ago was more or less playing theaters. Um, 1224 00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,880 Speaker 1: and that would be how many tickets, uh, you know, 1225 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,800 Speaker 1: I think they were playing anywhere from two to four 1226 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,280 Speaker 1: thousand seat venues. And you know, they had a success 1227 00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 1: in the circuit. Um and they changed agencies to Pete 1228 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,520 Speaker 1: pop Lardo at a g I and Pete had a 1229 00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,320 Speaker 1: bit more vision of how to get these guys back 1230 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,720 Speaker 1: because they were very successful arena band in their day. Um. 1231 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,920 Speaker 1: He grew them uh and and really pushed forward to 1232 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,320 Speaker 1: push them into the amphitheaters to get them in front 1233 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,440 Speaker 1: of more people. I think they went out with Sharon 1234 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,160 Speaker 1: Jones and the Dap Kings and Trombo and Shorty that year. 1235 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,240 Speaker 1: Good package did business, not huge grosses um, but it 1236 00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,840 Speaker 1: was ultimately trying to get them back into an arena 1237 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,760 Speaker 1: level production and performance. I think that's what the band 1238 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,840 Speaker 1: ultimately wanted to get to. It's what he pitched them on. 1239 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,200 Speaker 1: So they came up with the Tears for Fears package, uh, 1240 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,280 Speaker 1: and that was I think that was Pete's ideas or 1241 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:41,040 Speaker 1: Jonathan's who manages uh Hollow Notes. So they had been 1242 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,080 Speaker 1: discussing it already when it came to me, and then 1243 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,000 Speaker 1: when the opportunity came to us, we like the package, 1244 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,800 Speaker 1: made the bet um and then worked really closely with 1245 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,919 Speaker 1: the Hollow Notes camp and teers Fers and like, how 1246 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,480 Speaker 1: can we maximize and promote this and launch this big 1247 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,120 Speaker 1: and let everybody know it's coming because neither Neat well 1248 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,280 Speaker 1: teers re Fiers hasn't had music out there still making 1249 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 1: new music hollow notes is not making the USI so 1250 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,400 Speaker 1: you really have to kind of help create the story. Uh. 1251 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,400 Speaker 1: And Jonathan is a former PR guy and is a 1252 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,400 Speaker 1: great partner in terms of getting the word out and 1253 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,760 Speaker 1: made sure John and Darrel were on the phone doing 1254 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,200 Speaker 1: phoners in every city and oh yeah they were out 1255 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,880 Speaker 1: they were out there working at how much was late 1256 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,600 Speaker 1: you know buying walk up business on that tour? Uh? 1257 01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,680 Speaker 1: You know what, we had a good start and slow 1258 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,680 Speaker 1: and steady wins the race, you know was you know, 1259 01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, a big night on that tour was two 1260 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: or three d tickets to night a show, which is 1261 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,680 Speaker 1: not good. I mean it's not bad by any means. 1262 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,960 Speaker 1: It's not you know, phenomenal based off of what some 1263 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,360 Speaker 1: bands can sell day of but uh, but you know, 1264 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,400 Speaker 1: I think we averaged close to eleven thousand tickets a 1265 01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,040 Speaker 1: show on that tour and it was so what do 1266 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:45,120 Speaker 1: we learn ultimately good packaging? Look, a classic rock is 1267 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:49,400 Speaker 1: hot right now? I mean hasn't it always been hot? No? No, no, 1268 01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean rewind ten years and you'd find more spotty 1269 01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 1: classic rock tours out there, you know, wasn't you know, 1270 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,120 Speaker 1: Let's put this way, Tom Petty's Uh tour that he 1271 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,360 Speaker 1: did right this past year before passed on. It was 1272 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,800 Speaker 1: a home run. Um, he was making more money than 1273 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: he's ever made in his career before. But you could 1274 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,480 Speaker 1: rewind back to two thousand to two thousand and ten 1275 01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,080 Speaker 1: and Petty's businesses up and down and he'd have good years, 1276 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: bad years depends on how far he was away, how 1277 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:19,800 Speaker 1: long it was away. Thanks for listening to the Bob 1278 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,520 Speaker 1: Left Sets podcast. I hope you're enjoying the episode so far. 1279 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: There's only so much I can get into a podcast. 1280 01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,640 Speaker 1: But if you simply can't get enough and want to 1281 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,480 Speaker 1: know more of my thoughts on the future of the 1282 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 1: music industry, technology and current events, you'll want to subscribe 1283 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,680 Speaker 1: to my newsletter. Now I'm not shameless promotion. Let's dive 1284 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:42,960 Speaker 1: back into the interviews. Let's go back. If you look 1285 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,200 Speaker 1: at the amphitheater business, there are certain acts that go 1286 01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 1: every year. Def Leppard goes every year, Sticks goes every year. 1287 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,760 Speaker 1: How does that work? Well, the country acts to the 1288 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,560 Speaker 1: country is a different business. Let's start with these heritage acts. 1289 01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,200 Speaker 1: They're not making new music to anybody's listening to were 1290 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,920 Speaker 1: very hardcore fans. Why are people going. I think the nostalgia, 1291 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,920 Speaker 1: I mean, but every year, I don't know if that 1292 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,440 Speaker 1: they're going every year. I guess some of these juggle 1293 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,760 Speaker 1: if they change an act this year it's Aureo Speedwagon 1294 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,280 Speaker 1: on I mean, I mean literally Deaf Leppard, I believe 1295 01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,200 Speaker 1: has been out every year. Sticks is absolutely out every year, 1296 01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,240 Speaker 1: and if they get it packaged right, it works. You know. 1297 01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,280 Speaker 1: The first big one that came out like this was 1298 01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 1: Journey def Leopard years ago toured together and I was 1299 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,480 Speaker 1: at Live Nation then and everybody was a little wary 1300 01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,000 Speaker 1: of how it was going to do, but everybody poning 1301 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,040 Speaker 1: up the money um HK managed the act and drove 1302 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:39,520 Speaker 1: a hard deal. So it was you know, it wasn't 1303 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,520 Speaker 1: the cheapest show um to get at the time, but 1304 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,040 Speaker 1: it did phenomenal business. Outperformed everybody's expectations, basically sold out 1305 01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,640 Speaker 1: every amphitheater in the country that summer, and I really 1306 01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,840 Speaker 1: think that kicked off the era of classic rock packaging. 1307 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,520 Speaker 1: UM So you're seeing a lot more packaging and they're 1308 01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,680 Speaker 1: doing they're being far more aggressive about getting people out 1309 01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,600 Speaker 1: for those summertime shows that the amphitheaters now Okay, but 1310 01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,120 Speaker 1: now that package is playing stadiums. It is what do 1311 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,160 Speaker 1: you predict there? I don't know how people. I mean, 1312 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,360 Speaker 1: they just went out last summer and did really well 1313 01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,320 Speaker 1: in the amphitheaters and business was huge. I don't I 1314 01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,120 Speaker 1: haven't paid too close to attention to how many stadiums 1315 01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,520 Speaker 1: they're playing this summer, but it's a big bet. Stadium 1316 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,520 Speaker 1: aren't cheap to produce that does that audience want to 1317 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:25,240 Speaker 1: go to the stadium. My opinion is I don't think 1318 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,320 Speaker 1: that the core classic rock audience wants to go to 1319 01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,640 Speaker 1: a stadium. They'll go to a stadium for big events. 1320 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 1: But if you give them their Druggs, the smaller the 1321 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,400 Speaker 1: venue the better to them, because everybody wants to buy 1322 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,280 Speaker 1: a seat close up. They want They don't want to 1323 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,440 Speaker 1: deal with traffic and whatnot. But if package correctly and 1324 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,440 Speaker 1: you create enough excitement, you know, stadiums have a big 1325 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,160 Speaker 1: communal feel to them and it can be done. You know, 1326 01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,840 Speaker 1: you can drive people there. Okay, so where are we going? 1327 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:53,120 Speaker 1: It used to be five or six years ago pop 1328 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,960 Speaker 1: acts would have a number one record. They play the 1329 01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,480 Speaker 1: House of Blues. Now pop acts play arenas. In addition, 1330 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,400 Speaker 1: hip hop not only sells arenas, it sells festivals. Are 1331 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,520 Speaker 1: we at a tipping point here? Yeah? Well, I think 1332 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,120 Speaker 1: everything is more accelerated right There. Used to be much 1333 01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,800 Speaker 1: more of a developmental path where an artist might play 1334 01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,600 Speaker 1: a club to start, and then play a venue like 1335 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,480 Speaker 1: the Novo or the will Turn, work up to the 1336 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,880 Speaker 1: Greek and then be playing Staples Center, form Hollywood bol 1337 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,680 Speaker 1: or something like that Los Angeles plays. Now you're seeing 1338 01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:27,120 Speaker 1: bands that are accelerating so fast they skip right past 1339 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,680 Speaker 1: the initial steps. So they might play a club underplay 1340 01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:32,760 Speaker 1: to launch, and then it gets so big so fast, 1341 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:37,320 Speaker 1: you're going right into arenas, which um can work sometimes 1342 01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:41,600 Speaker 1: and maybe not. Okay, you know, if you go back 1343 01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:45,320 Speaker 1: to the MTV era, there was the uh, the cliche 1344 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,720 Speaker 1: that yes, MTV will blast you to the moon, but 1345 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,720 Speaker 1: you'll fall back just that fast. So these acts play 1346 01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,320 Speaker 1: arenas very soon. Do you think that hurts the longevity 1347 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:59,000 Speaker 1: of their career? Not if they keep putting out good music. Well, 1348 01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,320 Speaker 1: it's more competitive than ever. But let's you know, let's 1349 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,440 Speaker 1: segue to the hip hop acts, because they put out 1350 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,800 Speaker 1: a lot of product and they're continuing to go. So 1351 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,400 Speaker 1: what how do you envision the future of the hip 1352 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,160 Speaker 1: hop business? I think it's going to continue. I mean, look, 1353 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,360 Speaker 1: Spotify and streaming services have made this a singles culture, right, 1354 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:17,920 Speaker 1: So if you look at an act like they're not 1355 01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,200 Speaker 1: hip hop, but the Chain Smokers, they their success is 1356 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,160 Speaker 1: putting out a series of singles. Um. To a large degree, 1357 01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,360 Speaker 1: Drake is about putting out a series of singles. UM. 1358 01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,200 Speaker 1: So it's timing those announcements and and what their plan 1359 01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:37,640 Speaker 1: is to promote whatever brand artist or group together and 1360 01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,800 Speaker 1: and what's the strategy for this cycle of touring, this 1361 01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,320 Speaker 1: cycle of music. And I don't think I think the 1362 01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,680 Speaker 1: album has become irrelevant. I don't think you know, call 1363 01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,000 Speaker 1: kids today, but kids today don't really care about your album. 1364 01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,280 Speaker 1: They care about the songs. So but let's say you're 1365 01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,600 Speaker 1: an act that has a couple of songs. Can you 1366 01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,800 Speaker 1: then and there's a huge bus, can you then sell 1367 01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,200 Speaker 1: an arena? It reacts a little bit different. But so 1368 01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:02,640 Speaker 1: that's reading the tea leaves. You gotta read how hot 1369 01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,000 Speaker 1: something is and will people make the bet on you? 1370 01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,000 Speaker 1: And then there's playing promoters will make the bet, But 1371 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,320 Speaker 1: you have to kind of understand how hot you are. 1372 01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:13,000 Speaker 1: You're looking at a young artist like Khalid who's gone 1373 01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 1: from barely playing clubs and theaters right now too. He's 1374 01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,520 Speaker 1: out doing amphitheaters this summer, UH for Live Nation with 1375 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,800 Speaker 1: a package which is, you know, really ambitious. But he's 1376 01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,000 Speaker 1: got a huge following already and the kids are are 1377 01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,760 Speaker 1: chasing him. So he may have success the summer. I 1378 01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,720 Speaker 1: bet you he will. Um, but you know what does 1379 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:33,680 Speaker 1: that mean for the future. I think he's got to 1380 01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:35,840 Speaker 1: come back with more good music if he wants to sustain. 1381 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,480 Speaker 1: But you say the album is irrelevant, someone will say 1382 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:41,479 Speaker 1: there's a monster hit song. I'll go to the show 1383 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,960 Speaker 1: just to hear that monster HITNG think so yeah, I 1384 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,280 Speaker 1: think it takes a few monster hit songs to get 1385 01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,760 Speaker 1: to an arena level success. But I don't I don't 1386 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,840 Speaker 1: think anybody's were like, oh man, I really hope they're 1387 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,560 Speaker 1: playing track seven. Okay, so then let's go back. You 1388 01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,959 Speaker 1: talk about doing these tours with the top line acts 1389 01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:01,680 Speaker 1: all encompassing. Okay, we make an international or national deal, 1390 01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,920 Speaker 1: Why does that act be the major depending on who 1391 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,320 Speaker 1: their manager is and what other services. I think if 1392 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,600 Speaker 1: you look at what if you talk to Geiger at 1393 01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: William Morris there putting together deals with that artist that 1394 01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,000 Speaker 1: encompassed so much more than just the live experience, right, 1395 01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,600 Speaker 1: So they're tying in sponsorship brands into the live experience, 1396 01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,440 Speaker 1: or tying in movie deals not necessarily to the live 1397 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:28,680 Speaker 1: experience with their tying the movie deals and potentially um 1398 01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:32,040 Speaker 1: brand launches, integrating all of these things into their total 1399 01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,200 Speaker 1: relationship with the artists. So I think that as the 1400 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:40,440 Speaker 1: artists get bigger and bigger and command more revenue and 1401 01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,680 Speaker 1: business lines, that that if the agencies are servicing them all, 1402 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,320 Speaker 1: they have a very important value in the equation. And 1403 01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,520 Speaker 1: since you brought up sponsorship, how big is sponsorship part 1404 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,360 Speaker 1: of promotion for a g Oh, it's a big part 1405 01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,960 Speaker 1: of what we do. It's it really drives our venue platforms, 1406 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,080 Speaker 1: which allows us to be aggressive with these that we 1407 01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,040 Speaker 1: pay artists. So yeah, it's a big part of our business. 1408 01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:04,400 Speaker 1: How about any tour where you are not uh, well 1409 01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,040 Speaker 1: you don't own all the buildings, will you have? Will 1410 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,280 Speaker 1: you put together a sponsorship deal for that tour? We 1411 01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,600 Speaker 1: try to. It depends on, you know, can we find 1412 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,040 Speaker 1: the right artists that's excuse me, the right sponsor that's 1413 01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:17,840 Speaker 1: suitable to the artists, and while the artists accept it, 1414 01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,000 Speaker 1: and can we get a deal put together in time 1415 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,240 Speaker 1: to kind of make it worthwhile to take the cash 1416 01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:25,679 Speaker 1: and do the tour. I mean a lot of times 1417 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,280 Speaker 1: tours come together not last minute, but shortly before they 1418 01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,799 Speaker 1: go ahead and launch the on sale cycle. So sometimes 1419 01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,200 Speaker 1: brands are spending their money long before and acts decided, 1420 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,599 Speaker 1: you know, what their tour plan is. So what's going 1421 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,080 Speaker 1: on with the country business, because these country acts are 1422 01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:41,640 Speaker 1: out every year and some of the business got a 1423 01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,559 Speaker 1: little bit soft. Look, a lot of the artists have 1424 01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,000 Speaker 1: been out doing the same thing for years and years 1425 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,360 Speaker 1: and years, and it's starting to wane a little bit. 1426 01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,920 Speaker 1: But I just think you also went from you know, 1427 01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:52,559 Speaker 1: when I was at Live Nation probably left in two 1428 01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:56,680 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, there was probably eight country headliners. I 1429 01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,200 Speaker 1: think the country music has blown up so much more. 1430 01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,840 Speaker 1: There's far more headliners out there, and there's competing for 1431 01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:05,880 Speaker 1: not the same dollar. I think the dollar has grown. 1432 01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,559 Speaker 1: The audience has grown some, but it's not exponentially grown 1433 01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:10,640 Speaker 1: with the with the number of acts out in the 1434 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,800 Speaker 1: country scene. So the artists that you know haven't been 1435 01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,120 Speaker 1: putting out interesting music or have a story to tell 1436 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,200 Speaker 1: might be feeling might be feeling it at the box 1437 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,400 Speaker 1: office when they're not selling quite as much as opposed 1438 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,480 Speaker 1: to a guy like Stapleton, who has been a phenomenon 1439 01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,120 Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. And just you know, 1440 01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,200 Speaker 1: here's a guy who doesn't fit the mold of country 1441 01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,519 Speaker 1: music of the last few years. He's you know, Luke 1442 01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:35,479 Speaker 1: Bryan's essentially a pop act right and has pop appeal 1443 01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,160 Speaker 1: and whether you want to calm you know, bon Jovi 1444 01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,439 Speaker 1: style to what you know bon Jovi was, to Rocky 1445 01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,160 Speaker 1: is the country. Um, those are all great things and 1446 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,479 Speaker 1: that service a certain audience and it's scales up nicely. Uh. 1447 01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:50,400 Speaker 1: Stapleton was the singer songwriter and had this pinnacle moment 1448 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,040 Speaker 1: on uh the A M A's or C M A 1449 01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,400 Speaker 1: s with the like and it was phenomenal. I mean, 1450 01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:58,840 Speaker 1: we had him on sale at the l Ray, which 1451 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,080 Speaker 1: is an eight hundred seat love in Los Angeles with 1452 01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,799 Speaker 1: I think we're sitting after a month with three tickets 1453 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,360 Speaker 1: left to sell on the show, so it wasn't knocking 1454 01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,759 Speaker 1: down the doors. And he had that performance in those shows, 1455 01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,639 Speaker 1: those tickets sold in about thirty seconds and we're going 1456 01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,960 Speaker 1: for three sho of the next day. And his rise 1457 01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:19,360 Speaker 1: has been phenomenal. Sin there I'm a huge fan, So 1458 01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,280 Speaker 1: I just think that he's putting out incredible music, and 1459 01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,800 Speaker 1: really that opportunity opened everybody's eyes is like how great 1460 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,920 Speaker 1: he is because you know, to me, he he fulfills 1461 01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:33,320 Speaker 1: that somewhere between like that southern rock to Tom Petty 1462 01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,160 Speaker 1: vibe of rock and roll style with you know, country souls. 1463 01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:40,280 Speaker 1: The fascinating thing about Stapleton is on every metric he's victorious. 1464 01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,719 Speaker 1: When he had that moment and he won the award, 1465 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:47,120 Speaker 1: he's the favorite of everybody in Nashville who are playing 1466 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,400 Speaker 1: the game when he isn't. But in addition, his consumption 1467 01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:54,040 Speaker 1: numbers and sales exceed everybody else's, even though he until 1468 01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: recently hasn't got much radio played, which seems to say, hey, 1469 01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,519 Speaker 1: we want this credibility. It's like the inmates, you know, 1470 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,320 Speaker 1: who feel that they're incarcerated in the walls that don't exist, 1471 01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:06,360 Speaker 1: so we can't break out. But look at this guy 1472 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:10,000 Speaker 1: who broke out. Now, why is it? The country is 1473 01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:16,599 Speaker 1: play stadiums more than any other genre. Taylor Swift originally 1474 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,480 Speaker 1: was country. Kenny Chesney goes out every year of country, 1475 01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,280 Speaker 1: you know, Jason Aldan, they go out with packages, but 1476 01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,040 Speaker 1: they're the ones we're pushing the limits on stadiums. Well, 1477 01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,679 Speaker 1: I think country is still largely driven by country radio, 1478 01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:33,639 Speaker 1: which is of that format still pretty healthy. UM, so 1479 01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,200 Speaker 1: they've had a pretty Country music has had much more 1480 01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:41,200 Speaker 1: of a developmental system in place, um relative to rock, 1481 01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,519 Speaker 1: pop or the other genres, and it has kind of 1482 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,719 Speaker 1: propelled these guys. And as country music has become crossed 1483 01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:53,040 Speaker 1: over a bit towards pop, it's it's really gone mass appeal. 1484 01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: So the genre is very accessible right now. I'd say 1485 01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,680 Speaker 1: that's a big part of the reason you're seeing more 1486 01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,800 Speaker 1: stadium shows with artists like that. But I'm I'm just 1487 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,000 Speaker 1: thinking that you're starting to see more classic rock tours 1488 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,520 Speaker 1: and stadiums again. You're seeing more you know, the Beyonce's 1489 01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,320 Speaker 1: and jay Z's and Eminem's having played stadiums recently. I 1490 01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,320 Speaker 1: don't know that countries out pacing a lot of other genres, 1491 01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:16,160 Speaker 1: right I think the other ones are coming in. There 1492 01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,240 Speaker 1: were not many people going up and failing. They just 1493 01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,880 Speaker 1: weren't even going into that marketplace. So as we look forward, Hey, 1494 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:26,400 Speaker 1: is rock dead? No, it's not dead. What I just 1495 01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,800 Speaker 1: it's just not as popular as it used to be 1496 01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,920 Speaker 1: with a younger demographic right, so classic Roc Hotter and 1497 01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,439 Speaker 1: ever doing some of the best business. So again you're 1498 01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:37,679 Speaker 1: retretting on nostalgia there, but it's still very much alive 1499 01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,160 Speaker 1: that people are enjoying it. But you have you know, 1500 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,559 Speaker 1: we just put two shows with cretiv on Fleet on 1501 01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,080 Speaker 1: sale this morning and blew them out in two minutes. 1502 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:49,400 Speaker 1: Okay there, uh John Anson Ford amphitheater here and that's 1503 01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,320 Speaker 1: very small first place in reality. If Geiger said how 1504 01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,160 Speaker 1: big can we go? I would have said, like, let's 1505 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:56,640 Speaker 1: put it at the Greek Theater and we would have 1506 01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,160 Speaker 1: sold six thousand tickets in a day. It's they're playing 1507 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,360 Speaker 1: anywhere from hous and theaters. How about some of these 1508 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,320 Speaker 1: acts that have renowned but have not broken through mass consciousness, 1509 01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:09,320 Speaker 1: like the War on Drugs not compelling enough? I guess, 1510 01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I love the War on drugs, but it 1511 01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,800 Speaker 1: just hasn't resonated at a level that Well. A great 1512 01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,439 Speaker 1: Evan Fleet, which the record is certainly original. Hep is great, 1513 01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,680 Speaker 1: and it's it leads up when retread. Can you name 1514 01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:24,320 Speaker 1: one or two other acts that are burgeoning in that way? Burgeoning? No, 1515 01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,839 Speaker 1: there's I mean, rock is not developing a ton of superstars. 1516 01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,439 Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen Portugal. Demand is a rock band 1517 01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,599 Speaker 1: that's been around a long time, had a huge hit 1518 01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,920 Speaker 1: this year, great rock band, and they're just finally starting 1519 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:36,880 Speaker 1: to break through. It might take longer to get through it. 1520 01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,080 Speaker 1: That's kind of a poppit. That's that if someone did 1521 01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:41,960 Speaker 1: not someone did not know Portugal the man, they would 1522 01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,800 Speaker 1: not say this is rock music. Fair fair enough. I mean, 1523 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,280 Speaker 1: I don't think gret Evan fleets and a novelty act, 1524 01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,120 Speaker 1: but you can say that's a novelty song because it's 1525 01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,400 Speaker 1: got such thing. The interesting thing with Greta van Fleet 1526 01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,240 Speaker 1: is the original people created that music. The classic rockers 1527 01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,280 Speaker 1: were listening to the blues masters, where the tracks, the 1528 01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:01,400 Speaker 1: songs were somewhere between years old. It's been more than 1529 01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,960 Speaker 1: thirty or fifty, forty or fifty years since Creams, since 1530 01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,000 Speaker 1: led Zeppelin, So on some level, younger generation picking up 1531 01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,639 Speaker 1: on that, we could see the same paradigm. I don't 1532 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,520 Speaker 1: know if it's ultimately going to play out, but uh 1533 01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:18,040 Speaker 1: we saw a dip in two thousand and ten with 1534 01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,679 Speaker 1: live business. Anything gonna happen, but what do you foresee. Look, 1535 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,120 Speaker 1: I think that dip was the economy was was in 1536 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,320 Speaker 1: the worst recession since the Great Depression. I mean, discretionary 1537 01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,559 Speaker 1: income went out the window. So I think that in 1538 01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,960 Speaker 1: large part I wasn't like all of a sudden people 1539 01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:35,720 Speaker 1: became less interested in music. I think people have less 1540 01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,040 Speaker 1: dollars to spend. Flip it over. There's many people who 1541 01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:41,439 Speaker 1: believe that it's all about experiences now and then the 1542 01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,120 Speaker 1: only place you can get it is that the live show. 1543 01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:48,000 Speaker 1: So that's driving business. Certainly, the live business is king 1544 01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:49,639 Speaker 1: in this day and age, you know, in a sense 1545 01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,280 Speaker 1: of I think two thousand seventeen was the first year 1546 01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,920 Speaker 1: that recorded revenue for two years. Yeah, so you know, 1547 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,559 Speaker 1: the live business revenue has been growing for for years 1548 01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,120 Speaker 1: and been growing rapidly since the economy picked up in 1549 01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,640 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve, and the live business has been phenomenal. 1550 01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:03,360 Speaker 1: You read a lot of articles and you hear a 1551 01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:05,760 Speaker 1: lot of things about everybody wants the experiences, and I 1552 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,720 Speaker 1: think that is true to a large degree, and the 1553 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,320 Speaker 1: festivals have helped propel that culture where it's music is 1554 01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:16,760 Speaker 1: computal right, So when you are by yourself listening to music, 1555 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:18,479 Speaker 1: it's one thing, and when you want to spend time 1556 01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:20,280 Speaker 1: with people, and as we spend more and more times 1557 01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:22,800 Speaker 1: in our homes with our big screen TVs or iPads 1558 01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:24,760 Speaker 1: and our Netflix and all of those things like how 1559 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:26,960 Speaker 1: do you get your communal fix? I think that the 1560 01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,799 Speaker 1: live experience in large part supports that. Now the number 1561 01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:36,000 Speaker 1: one talking point amongst attendees is the availability and price 1562 01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:41,160 Speaker 1: of tickets. Where do you stand on should the fan 1563 01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,800 Speaker 1: be able to get in at a cheap price or 1564 01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,559 Speaker 1: should tickets be whatever the market value is. So a 1565 01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,040 Speaker 1: few years back, Neil Young did a theater tour and 1566 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:55,120 Speaker 1: I got myself in trouble responding to the left sets letter. 1567 01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,519 Speaker 1: So Neil was out there and I think he was 1568 01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,559 Speaker 1: charging close to to in her fifty dollars for the 1569 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,960 Speaker 1: top ticket at his theater tour, which Neil Young should 1570 01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:06,840 Speaker 1: not be playing. If it's if you're just talking about 1571 01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:09,920 Speaker 1: the demand in a given market, Neil Young consent saw 1572 01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,640 Speaker 1: out a theater and any town he goes to, the 1573 01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,680 Speaker 1: minute it goes on sale, it's it's a what you 1574 01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:19,320 Speaker 1: generally call it underplaying our business. So Neil plays it. 1575 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,480 Speaker 1: He's charging to seventy five and people are a gas because, um, 1576 01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:27,240 Speaker 1: they feel they should be paying whatever fifty bucks thirty 1577 01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:29,439 Speaker 1: five bucks whenever they felt the right Neil Young price, 1578 01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:31,840 Speaker 1: which is those prices are probably what you call the 1579 01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:36,880 Speaker 1: bore traditional uh rock and roll ticket prices. But the 1580 01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,439 Speaker 1: reality is scalpers for years have been getting tickets and 1581 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:44,320 Speaker 1: reselling them on the secondary market, whether that was Barrious 1582 01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,439 Speaker 1: tickets back in the day or today stub Hub or 1583 01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,840 Speaker 1: Vivid or any of the other Internet platforms that are 1584 01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,960 Speaker 1: driving the market. So at the time I replied back 1585 01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,960 Speaker 1: to you and said, you know, I actually think Neil 1586 01:16:58,040 --> 01:16:59,760 Speaker 1: Young is doing the right thing because this is a 1587 01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,200 Speaker 1: flying demand economics. Um, this show is going to sell 1588 01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:06,920 Speaker 1: it instantly. If Neil Young prices them at seventy five dollars, 1589 01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:10,160 Speaker 1: there's going to be people that are professional scalpers, and 1590 01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, weekend scalpers in a sense of the get 1591 01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,599 Speaker 1: tickets say wow, I could make you know, I got 1592 01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,479 Speaker 1: I bought two tickets or four tickets or so many 1593 01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:19,920 Speaker 1: five They can sell two of them for two hundred 1594 01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,200 Speaker 1: and fifty bucks and either pay for my night at 1595 01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,839 Speaker 1: a show, or you know, put profit in my scalping business. 1596 01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:30,439 Speaker 1: And ultimately, who's not sharing in that Neil Young's not 1597 01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:32,760 Speaker 1: sharing in that, the promoters not sharing in that his 1598 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:36,160 Speaker 1: manager doesn't share, and that that lift of the scalper 1599 01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,679 Speaker 1: is keeping. So I said, look, if the market value 1600 01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,679 Speaker 1: is two hundred fifty dollars for a Neil Young ticket, 1601 01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 1: I'm okay with them charging it because people are happy 1602 01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:48,000 Speaker 1: paying nobody's nobody's upset that they spent two hundred fifty dollars. 1603 01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,240 Speaker 1: If you if you get the seat you want. And 1604 01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:52,599 Speaker 1: that's how stuff help came to prominense because the constant 1605 01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,920 Speaker 1: industry for years was under pricing their tickets right. So 1606 01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,439 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of market pricing your tickets correctly, 1607 01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:01,960 Speaker 1: and that's that's gonna work two ways. And a smaller 1608 01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:03,840 Speaker 1: venue with Neil Young, there's not gonna be a lot 1609 01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,240 Speaker 1: of cheaper tickets in that experience as a venue gets bigger. 1610 01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:09,439 Speaker 1: Um jay Z. There was a lot of talk about 1611 01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,200 Speaker 1: jay Z's tour, whether it's a success or not. And 1612 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,559 Speaker 1: from what I gather, they had really respectable grosses and 1613 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,880 Speaker 1: he was selling tickets, but he had tickets going from 1614 01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, five hundred to a thousand dollars maybe all 1615 01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,040 Speaker 1: the way down to like twenty in the back of 1616 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,680 Speaker 1: the arena. So to me, if your expectations, I want 1617 01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:29,479 Speaker 1: to pay twenty dollars and sit in the front row 1618 01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:31,960 Speaker 1: and arena to see jay Z. Well, that's gonna be 1619 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:33,840 Speaker 1: a little unrealistic. But if I want to go see 1620 01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:35,799 Speaker 1: jay Z live and I want to spend twenty dollars, 1621 01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:39,160 Speaker 1: there's a place for you in that scenario. So I 1622 01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,559 Speaker 1: think you're seeing more and more price points within arena 1623 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,720 Speaker 1: which have really existed for years, because if you think 1624 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:48,360 Speaker 1: about it, we would roll out uh any kind of concert. 1625 01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:50,720 Speaker 1: Take your pick a Tom Petty show. Um, if you 1626 01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,479 Speaker 1: put that show on sale, we might have picked four 1627 01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,760 Speaker 1: or five price points. You could go to StubHub the 1628 01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:57,680 Speaker 1: next day and look at all the people who were 1629 01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:01,320 Speaker 1: speculating on reselling tickets and there would be a thousand 1630 01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,599 Speaker 1: different price points. But but they did not go under 1631 01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:09,080 Speaker 1: the nosebleed price. That's not always the case. No, No, 1632 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,320 Speaker 1: they did as they approached the show correct but not 1633 01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:13,600 Speaker 1: the next one. One would say, I don't want to 1634 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,400 Speaker 1: make this about you, but this is a relatively recent 1635 01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,920 Speaker 1: phenomenon to drop the price of the nosebleed seats to 1636 01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:22,640 Speaker 1: a very low price in music, not not in like 1637 01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,719 Speaker 1: it's been going on for sports. You gotta lose your team. 1638 01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,160 Speaker 1: People are like, you know, I've gotten to plenty of 1639 01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,719 Speaker 1: baseball games where you know, you just buy some tickets 1640 01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,840 Speaker 1: on StubHub for the upper deck at Dodger Statium for 1641 01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,599 Speaker 1: ten bucks. You know, like I don't, I don't even 1642 01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:35,880 Speaker 1: know what the face was, but you can you know 1643 01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:38,519 Speaker 1: anybody is paying for a nupper back ticket at Dodger 1644 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,720 Speaker 1: Stadium for more than ten bucks is like I guess 1645 01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:42,759 Speaker 1: the Yankees are in town or whoever is super popular. 1646 01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,479 Speaker 1: But in concerts is happening more and more, especially as 1647 01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:47,080 Speaker 1: you're pushing the price. So if it's not a hot 1648 01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,519 Speaker 1: tour and people need to sell those tickets, and there's 1649 01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,360 Speaker 1: more and more speculators in the game now than there 1650 01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:54,759 Speaker 1: ever was. The Stones, who are one of your racks, 1651 01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:59,920 Speaker 1: legendarily flex price. They change the price during the core 1652 01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:03,240 Speaker 1: so the on sale correct. What is the future of that? 1653 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,280 Speaker 1: I think dynamic pricing is already here. It is that, 1654 01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,880 Speaker 1: I mean the future is already here. It's you're seeing 1655 01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,760 Speaker 1: more and more shows being priced dynamically based off of 1656 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:16,679 Speaker 1: what the market demand is. So if you know, if 1657 01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:18,960 Speaker 1: a front row seats worth a thousand dollars, you're going 1658 01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,280 Speaker 1: to see it get charges thousand dollars. And if it's 1659 01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,960 Speaker 1: not moving at that. It might move down, um, and 1660 01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,320 Speaker 1: a price might a price point might move up. Basically 1661 01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:28,519 Speaker 1: email from people who are piste off. I paid to 1662 01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,040 Speaker 1: fifty and now the seat next to me's on sale 1663 01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,840 Speaker 1: for a bucket a quarter. Uh you know, it's like 1664 01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:37,679 Speaker 1: an airline price. The only thing is everybody hates the airlines. 1665 01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:41,200 Speaker 1: It's just the models, supply and an end pricing though. Right, yeah, 1666 01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:42,760 Speaker 1: we have we have a couple of things going. I'm 1667 01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,720 Speaker 1: not saying that the first row shouldn't be a thousand dollars, right, 1668 01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:49,479 Speaker 1: I'm saying that when I have a seat that I 1669 01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,040 Speaker 1: paid five for and the person next to me paid 1670 01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,120 Speaker 1: two and fifty dollars for, I'm not happy about that. 1671 01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:57,439 Speaker 1: I accept it with the airlines, I have a model, 1672 01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,719 Speaker 1: But the airline business is different from going to see 1673 01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:04,200 Speaker 1: a live music at so you paid five. This is 1674 01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:08,160 Speaker 1: my hypothetical. The number one ticketing site on the Internet 1675 01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,720 Speaker 1: is stubb Hub, right, and the music business. For a 1676 01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:12,360 Speaker 1: long time they were hated because they were seen as 1677 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,519 Speaker 1: the scalping site, right, But from a consumer perspective, they 1678 01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,519 Speaker 1: love it because a lot of people are frustrated going 1679 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:20,760 Speaker 1: to Ticketmaster not being able to get the ticket that 1680 01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,200 Speaker 1: they want when they are there promptly at ten am 1681 01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:25,040 Speaker 1: for the on sale and they type in you know 1682 01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,479 Speaker 1: b O B L and the entire lower bill sold 1683 01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,120 Speaker 1: out before you can type the rest of your last 1684 01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:34,719 Speaker 1: name right. So they're upset, or it's like six months 1685 01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:36,320 Speaker 1: before the show and they don't know where they're going 1686 01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,400 Speaker 1: to be. They really want to go see their favorite 1687 01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,519 Speaker 1: band the hell, you know, like, who who would want 1688 01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,559 Speaker 1: to do buy the ticket? In that experience, it's a 1689 01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:48,360 Speaker 1: terrible selling experience as opposed to, uh, three weeks before 1690 01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:50,800 Speaker 1: the show, I really want to go see my favorite band. 1691 01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:53,519 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to stub Hub quickly found a 1692 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:57,479 Speaker 1: seat in the tenth row. It's five bucks. Cool, I'm 1693 01:21:57,479 --> 01:21:59,639 Speaker 1: happy with five hundred bucks and get the seat I want. Honey, 1694 01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,160 Speaker 1: let's go out. It's date night. Let's let's rock. Um. 1695 01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,479 Speaker 1: You might be sitting to somebody who got through on 1696 01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:07,479 Speaker 1: their initial on sale when the ticket was two or 1697 01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,720 Speaker 1: fifty bucks, and I agree with everything said, And let 1698 01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,600 Speaker 1: me try to break the points across. Let's start with 1699 01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:15,880 Speaker 1: the first point. Does it hurt the act charging what 1700 01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,760 Speaker 1: the market value is? The market value is going to 1701 01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,240 Speaker 1: charge what it is regardless of the act. Different issue. 1702 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:23,160 Speaker 1: There's a whole guy wrote a whole essay. I think 1703 01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:24,840 Speaker 1: it happened to be in poll Star one of the 1704 01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,640 Speaker 1: economists that said in terms of longevity of act, and 1705 01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:31,439 Speaker 1: I always felt the opposite, that to charge what the 1706 01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:33,800 Speaker 1: market will bear actually hurts the longevity of the act. 1707 01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:37,120 Speaker 1: You're saying leaves some meat on the bone, right, don't 1708 01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:39,599 Speaker 1: don't you know, don't kill your audists. You never attacks him, No, No, 1709 01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:43,360 Speaker 1: My point is the perception will be that you're fan friendly, 1710 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:46,280 Speaker 1: even though these third parties will be making bank and 1711 01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:48,680 Speaker 1: it won't go to you. But in the long run 1712 01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:51,679 Speaker 1: you will have a longer career. I mean, it's it's 1713 01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:54,760 Speaker 1: a premise. I don't think the Stones have charged less 1714 01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,760 Speaker 1: over time, and they're and they're still doing okay because 1715 01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:02,760 Speaker 1: it's started with tickets were under ten. Next question becomes, 1716 01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:07,720 Speaker 1: where does paperless fit in this equation. Well, look, there's 1717 01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:09,519 Speaker 1: two paths that you're going to go down to as 1718 01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:12,519 Speaker 1: far as the purchasing experience. A. There's market value, right, 1719 01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:16,240 Speaker 1: which is gonna drive up the best seats um at 1720 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:17,840 Speaker 1: the you know, at the highest price, and try and 1721 01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:19,920 Speaker 1: get the maximum yield out of that. And some of 1722 01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,479 Speaker 1: it may yield cheaper seats in the back, but it's 1723 01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:24,880 Speaker 1: really going to fluctuate as to what true market pricing 1724 01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:27,519 Speaker 1: demand is. The second option is there's a lot of 1725 01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:30,200 Speaker 1: bands out there who feel I don't want my fan 1726 01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:32,800 Speaker 1: basically following up what we were talking about paying more 1727 01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:35,120 Speaker 1: than thirty five dollars for this ticket. And maybe a 1728 01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:38,200 Speaker 1: great example would be Adel who topped out her ticket 1729 01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:42,439 Speaker 1: prices of a hundred fifty dollars. So she used paperless ticketing, 1730 01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:46,360 Speaker 1: which is a format of ticketing that you don't actually 1731 01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:47,840 Speaker 1: get a physical ticket. You have to show up with 1732 01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:49,880 Speaker 1: your I D and a credit card and then go 1733 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,160 Speaker 1: right into the venue. And what that is intended to 1734 01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,960 Speaker 1: do is prevent um a secondary market from transferring the 1735 01:23:55,960 --> 01:24:00,280 Speaker 1: ticket to another party. So I think it's technology gets better. 1736 01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:05,360 Speaker 1: Artists should have the ability to not to limit or 1737 01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:09,040 Speaker 1: control the pricing on their ticket. Right now, scalpers and 1738 01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:12,840 Speaker 1: technology have far outpaced the industry and their ability to 1739 01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:17,679 Speaker 1: thwart systems like paperless ticketing from working at a high 1740 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:22,000 Speaker 1: success rate. So you know there's our company, ticketing company 1741 01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:24,559 Speaker 1: Access is working on ideas. Ticket Masters hard at work 1742 01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,519 Speaker 1: on ideas on how you can secure the ticket. And 1743 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,719 Speaker 1: there's a lot of other reasons to talk about securing 1744 01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:34,400 Speaker 1: the ticket because as you see UM attacks happen over 1745 01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:38,320 Speaker 1: in Europe at the Ariana Grande show and in Paris 1746 01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,000 Speaker 1: where the people came, well, that was charging through. But 1747 01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:44,000 Speaker 1: like to know who's in the building UH at any 1748 01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:47,880 Speaker 1: given time and have that customer data handy is becomes 1749 01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,600 Speaker 1: much more valuable as well. So will a ticket in 1750 01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:53,679 Speaker 1: the future become much more transferable to person to person 1751 01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:55,280 Speaker 1: and you'll be able to track that ticket. I think 1752 01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,719 Speaker 1: that's where the technology is going. Okay, then also talking 1753 01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:05,719 Speaker 1: about UH, you know, let's go back, so in terms 1754 01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:10,040 Speaker 1: of prices changing after the original on sale goes on, 1755 01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:14,439 Speaker 1: do you envision that happening more? And then there's very 1756 01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:18,280 Speaker 1: little transparency. The average person sitting at home believes when 1757 01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,560 Speaker 1: the on sale goes on Saturday morning that all the 1758 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:24,800 Speaker 1: tickets are available, when in reality may be less fewer 1759 01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:30,160 Speaker 1: than ten percent of the overall UH ticket availability. So 1760 01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:35,840 Speaker 1: first explain where all those other tickets go. Usually there's 1761 01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:40,080 Speaker 1: you're seeing far more stage staggered on sales as I 1762 01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:42,639 Speaker 1: would call them. So you're seeing artists fan club preise 1763 01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:46,000 Speaker 1: sales as you're seeing UH sponsor pre sales. American Express 1764 01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,599 Speaker 1: sponsors a lot of pre sales, will contribute marketing dollars 1765 01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:50,960 Speaker 1: to help promote the show. So if you have an 1766 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,320 Speaker 1: ann X cards, you'll have access to buy tickets early. 1767 01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:56,519 Speaker 1: For there's venue pre sales, there's radio station pre sales, 1768 01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:01,519 Speaker 1: they're Spotify pre sales. How those choose to get rolled 1769 01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:04,040 Speaker 1: out are really a decision between both the artist promoter 1770 01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:06,599 Speaker 1: and everybody in the business side of the equation. And 1771 01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:08,960 Speaker 1: some people feel they're great because they help them sell 1772 01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:11,759 Speaker 1: more tickets and get more people access to the tickets, 1773 01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:13,840 Speaker 1: and then there's other people who don't participate in them 1774 01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:17,639 Speaker 1: because they feel it limits the access to tickets. Well, 1775 01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,080 Speaker 1: I can say is a lot of this although baked 1776 01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:24,280 Speaker 1: into the business for historical reasons, not fan friendly in 1777 01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:27,080 Speaker 1: an Internet era where a site that is not the 1778 01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:30,840 Speaker 1: unfriendly usually is you know, bombarded with criticism and might 1779 01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:33,400 Speaker 1: go down. So what is the future We're just going 1780 01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:36,479 Speaker 1: to continue to have this opacity or is it going 1781 01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:40,240 Speaker 1: to change? Well, look, I think you're gonna see slower 1782 01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:41,800 Speaker 1: on sales. I think you're going to see what the 1783 01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:44,439 Speaker 1: demand is for, you know, for artists that want to 1784 01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,040 Speaker 1: maximize the gross and are really focused in on how 1785 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:49,800 Speaker 1: much I can gross the concert and get what the 1786 01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,400 Speaker 1: real market value is for this concert. You're going to 1787 01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:55,840 Speaker 1: see a mix of technology supporting that, and you may 1788 01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,200 Speaker 1: see a slower rollout of tickets in a sense of 1789 01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:00,519 Speaker 1: not every ticket may go on sale at the onset 1790 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:04,120 Speaker 1: while you're determining what market pricing is. And then on 1791 01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,240 Speaker 1: the flip side of it, as you be able, as 1792 01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:10,080 Speaker 1: we are able to buckle down the technology to the 1793 01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,679 Speaker 1: point where you can really control transferability of a ticket, 1794 01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,320 Speaker 1: then the artist that it's very important to that their 1795 01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:17,360 Speaker 1: fan don't pay over a certain price point will be 1796 01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,040 Speaker 1: able to do that as well. And really technology is 1797 01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:22,000 Speaker 1: going to drive this. So one of the two biggest 1798 01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:27,000 Speaker 1: challenges you have in your day to day job, Um, well, 1799 01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:29,479 Speaker 1: we have a very big business. We do over twelve 1800 01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,639 Speaker 1: thousand shows a year. So one of my biggest challenges, 1801 01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:34,840 Speaker 1: just as I generally call it cat hurting, I have 1802 01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:36,960 Speaker 1: a lot of details to follow up on a day, 1803 01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,680 Speaker 1: and so staying organized and focused on the goals of 1804 01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:43,799 Speaker 1: the month, the year are it's probably my number one challenge. 1805 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,720 Speaker 1: But um you know, we we we compete every day 1806 01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,040 Speaker 1: against the biggest conscert phone in the world. So I 1807 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,200 Speaker 1: have to sharpen the knife and come with a lot 1808 01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:55,320 Speaker 1: of focus and try and move quickly to uh to uh, 1809 01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, fight for our piece of the pie that day. 1810 01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:03,680 Speaker 1: And one or two things you've learned in years? Two things, um, 1811 01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:08,439 Speaker 1: that I've learned in twenty five years, Um, that I 1812 01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:10,720 Speaker 1: don't always want to meet every artist I used to 1813 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:14,280 Speaker 1: admire because you don't have time or they're disappointing. You 1814 01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:17,560 Speaker 1: were what Sometimes they disappoint you, you know some Sometimes 1815 01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:22,400 Speaker 1: I've I've loved a band less after meeting them. It 1816 01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:23,960 Speaker 1: could be a big fan of a band, and I've 1817 01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:26,080 Speaker 1: I've met an artist or have done business with them 1818 01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:29,200 Speaker 1: and or other people to the point where it kind 1819 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:31,840 Speaker 1: of put a little tarnish on my view of the 1820 01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,880 Speaker 1: band and enjoyment of the music. So I think the 1821 01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:37,680 Speaker 1: old adage is careful, careful about meeting your heroes. Right. 1822 01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:43,040 Speaker 1: Have you ever met anybody who's lived up to the legend? Uh? Yeah, 1823 01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:44,920 Speaker 1: I look, I've met a lot of great artists along 1824 01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:48,519 Speaker 1: the way. UM. I mentioned earlier that one of the 1825 01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,960 Speaker 1: first bands that I promoted kind of from big are 1826 01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:55,200 Speaker 1: Small to Big was No Doubt And the guys in 1827 01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:57,599 Speaker 1: no doubt. Tony Canal and Adrian and Tom are all 1828 01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:59,800 Speaker 1: good friends of mine and like I just I root 1829 01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,920 Speaker 1: for them and any project that they do. So um, 1830 01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,400 Speaker 1: I've got a special place in my heart for for 1831 01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:09,439 Speaker 1: them in that band because uh, you know, they were 1832 01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:11,000 Speaker 1: they were with me in the early days. I was 1833 01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:12,840 Speaker 1: with them in their early days, so it was went 1834 01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,519 Speaker 1: through the war together. Yeah, and and they're and they're 1835 01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:18,800 Speaker 1: good people, so they deserve all the success that they had. Well, 1836 01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, one of the biggest acts who lives up 1837 01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:23,559 Speaker 1: to the legends, Steven Tyler. The moment I met him, 1838 01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:25,720 Speaker 1: he is that guy. He's the rock star. He's very 1839 01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,559 Speaker 1: quick with the language, you know, whereas there other people 1840 01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:32,040 Speaker 1: very disappointing. Yeah. Well, and and look, I've been really 1841 01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,400 Speaker 1: fortunate because I want to say, I don't want to 1842 01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:36,760 Speaker 1: say it's bad meeting artists. It's been great. But you know, 1843 01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:38,680 Speaker 1: when you get to meet you know, I get to 1844 01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:41,200 Speaker 1: meet a lot of artists in the business, and that's 1845 01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:42,760 Speaker 1: a fun part of it. And when you go to 1846 01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:44,760 Speaker 1: a party with friends who aren't in the business, that 1847 01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,840 Speaker 1: sounds incredible. And I don't really care who I meet 1848 01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:49,280 Speaker 1: for the most part. For day to day but every 1849 01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:50,960 Speaker 1: once in a while, like you know, I got to 1850 01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,839 Speaker 1: George Landau introduced me to Bruce Springsteen after a benefit 1851 01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,360 Speaker 1: show and I had to make small talk with Bruce 1852 01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:00,760 Speaker 1: for what was What was the nature of the small talk? Uh, 1853 01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,720 Speaker 1: he was performing at the Shrine. I talked about some 1854 01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:05,479 Speaker 1: of the renovations we had done at the Shrine and 1855 01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:07,640 Speaker 1: the nature of the benefit. And you know, he was 1856 01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:09,760 Speaker 1: coming to do the River that that next year at 1857 01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:12,000 Speaker 1: the Sports Arena, which we were producing. So we talked, 1858 01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, for a minute about that. It was three 1859 01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,880 Speaker 1: minutes of that. But as you know, you're just sitting 1860 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,880 Speaker 1: there the whole time, like I'm sitting three ft from 1861 01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,240 Speaker 1: Bob having this converse. Imagine he was Bruce Springton and 1862 01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:23,960 Speaker 1: the whole time Bruce is talking to me. I'm trying 1863 01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:27,000 Speaker 1: to sound not sound like an idiot going fucking Bruce 1864 01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:30,120 Speaker 1: Springsteen in front of me. The factor actually having a 1865 01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:33,599 Speaker 1: conversation is what I'm focusing on. Because frequently, you know, 1866 01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:36,599 Speaker 1: frequently they give the limp musician Handshakeen, that's it, We're 1867 01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:38,679 Speaker 1: all start talking to you have They have no idea 1868 01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:40,479 Speaker 1: who I am. They don't care about it. But when 1869 01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:44,679 Speaker 1: you're actually engaging in the conversation. Your heart pitter powders circumountain. Yeah, 1870 01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,519 Speaker 1: it's it's amazing to watch some artists. I tell this 1871 01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,639 Speaker 1: story a lot is um We've produced Katie Perry's last 1872 01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:57,680 Speaker 1: few tours and uh sheep, you know, on the on 1873 01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:01,080 Speaker 1: the two tours ago, Uh, we were getting hit left 1874 01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:04,720 Speaker 1: and right with uh meet and greet requests. So she 1875 01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:07,080 Speaker 1: ultimately made the decision that she was only going to 1876 01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:10,880 Speaker 1: um do meet and greets for kids that were in 1877 01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,920 Speaker 1: bad he make like make a wish style requests, and 1878 01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,600 Speaker 1: it limited it because you know, it would be an 1879 01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:18,280 Speaker 1: endless stream of people, uh that wanted to meet her. 1880 01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:22,439 Speaker 1: And at st Staples was ended up being one of 1881 01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:24,360 Speaker 1: her tour sponsors that year. So when she did play 1882 01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:27,280 Speaker 1: Staples Center, there were some you know Staples executives that 1883 01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:28,840 Speaker 1: were part of that and a few other people, and 1884 01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:30,559 Speaker 1: so it kind of broke the rule for that night 1885 01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,960 Speaker 1: and there was a row of people meeting there and 1886 01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,640 Speaker 1: my my daughter at that time, was probably around ten 1887 01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:38,759 Speaker 1: years old, and I set it up with Steve Jensen, 1888 01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:41,960 Speaker 1: Katie's manager, to meet her, and so we were standing 1889 01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,080 Speaker 1: there at the end of the line, you know, watching 1890 01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:45,640 Speaker 1: her do the meet and greet with the kids and 1891 01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:49,559 Speaker 1: working her way down and you know she I just 1892 01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:53,000 Speaker 1: watched her and she was so locked in instantly on 1893 01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:56,479 Speaker 1: what every kid was saying to her. Uh, and she 1894 01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,479 Speaker 1: connected with them in a way that I was like, wow, 1895 01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,120 Speaker 1: Like it wasn't surprised to me why she was such 1896 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,320 Speaker 1: a big star, you know. And we were towards the 1897 01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:06,519 Speaker 1: end of the line and she, you know, she she 1898 01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:09,599 Speaker 1: walked up to my daughter, whose name is Katie, and said, 1899 01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:11,200 Speaker 1: your name is Katie, My name is Katie. You know, 1900 01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:13,759 Speaker 1: made a big to do about that, started talking about 1901 01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:16,760 Speaker 1: instantly locked in on what my daughter was wearing. And 1902 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,320 Speaker 1: they had a nice little chat for like maybe a 1903 01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,040 Speaker 1: minute and a half, and you know, you get your 1904 01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:23,519 Speaker 1: courtesy picture and I go to take I take up 1905 01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:24,800 Speaker 1: my phone to take a picture of the tomb, and 1906 01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,320 Speaker 1: she grabs my phone and she flips it around and 1907 01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:30,760 Speaker 1: she shoots the selfie with my daughter and like a 1908 01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:34,200 Speaker 1: kid my daughter's age, that's far more valuable than like 1909 01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:36,880 Speaker 1: the fact that it was shot selfie style, and it 1910 01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:39,719 Speaker 1: was so smooth and so connected in and I go, man, 1911 01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,439 Speaker 1: she is just locking in this fans, Like she's just 1912 01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,160 Speaker 1: like that personal connection is that that that charisma and 1913 01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:46,920 Speaker 1: touch that she had. I was just like, I was 1914 01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:51,439 Speaker 1: so taken with how she each one of those things. 1915 01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:52,720 Speaker 1: And I mean that line had to be for two 1916 01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,400 Speaker 1: people long, and there's a lot of artists that will 1917 01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:56,479 Speaker 1: do even more than that, and like she just connected 1918 01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:58,559 Speaker 1: with each other. And I go, man, that is that 1919 01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,840 Speaker 1: is amazing? And the you see, you know, the artist 1920 01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:05,080 Speaker 1: personal touches. For years, the country rule has been, you know, 1921 01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:06,400 Speaker 1: you go out on the road, you're the first to 1922 01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:08,640 Speaker 1: three on one of those country packages in the MP 1923 01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:11,720 Speaker 1: theaters and the openers up at the concessions, sorry, the 1924 01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:14,479 Speaker 1: merch stand selling T shirts and sign an autographs for 1925 01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:17,040 Speaker 1: everybody there. And I you know, it's it's interesting the 1926 01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:18,799 Speaker 1: bands that will put in the work to go connect 1927 01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,439 Speaker 1: with people, um and talk to him, because I think 1928 01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:25,639 Speaker 1: that breeds a lot of loyalty and longevity, you know, right. 1929 01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,719 Speaker 1: Speaking of your daughter, we've talked about this before. She's 1930 01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:31,680 Speaker 1: a huge Hamilton's fan, Yes, and you've seen Hamilton's a 1931 01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,120 Speaker 1: couple of times. Is that a unique property? Does it 1932 01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:36,720 Speaker 1: have lessons for the rest of the business. Look, I 1933 01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:40,360 Speaker 1: think Hamilton's a great example of it's just great music, right, 1934 01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:43,840 Speaker 1: So lin Manuel made an incredible score. I before we 1935 01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:45,519 Speaker 1: went to go see it, I had listened to that 1936 01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:48,760 Speaker 1: soundtrack no less than three hundred and fifty times uh 1937 01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:52,040 Speaker 1: in a year period. We listened to it every day. UH. 1938 01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:55,240 Speaker 1: And so when we when we got tickets to it, it 1939 01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:57,720 Speaker 1: it was a big exciting thing. But you know, I 1940 01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:00,200 Speaker 1: thought it was my daughter at first, who's she had 1941 01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:03,880 Speaker 1: a predisposition to musicals, and she's into the Broadway seeing. 1942 01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:05,880 Speaker 1: She's performed in a few kids theaters and things of 1943 01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,439 Speaker 1: that nature. So I didn't think that much of it 1944 01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:12,320 Speaker 1: at the time, and I just liked the soundtrack myself. 1945 01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:14,880 Speaker 1: As we got closer to going to see the play 1946 01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the year in New York, UM, 1947 01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:19,200 Speaker 1: I was paying more and more attention to what was 1948 01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:21,719 Speaker 1: going on with with Lynn, and I just hadn't opened 1949 01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:24,160 Speaker 1: my eyes wide enough, and I realized what a phenomenon 1950 01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:27,160 Speaker 1: was and how it was, you know, one of five 1951 01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:31,000 Speaker 1: albums that year to sell over a million copies, UM, 1952 01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:34,120 Speaker 1: which I think is saying something Broadway soundtrack of all 1953 01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:37,960 Speaker 1: the pop records with no hits. And where it really 1954 01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:41,320 Speaker 1: blew my mind is we uh were on a family 1955 01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:46,320 Speaker 1: trip after the New Year, and I uh in Vale, Colorado, 1956 01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:48,600 Speaker 1: and we were I met up with a friend that 1957 01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:50,320 Speaker 1: I had went to high school with, and she brought 1958 01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:52,760 Speaker 1: up her two daughters and we all the families hung 1959 01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:55,080 Speaker 1: out for a few days. In the first night, at dinner, 1960 01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:58,439 Speaker 1: the the kids were talking about Kay brought up how 1961 01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:00,280 Speaker 1: we went to go see Hamilton's over the hall days, 1962 01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:03,360 Speaker 1: and they started, everybody loved Hamilton's, And all of a sudden, 1963 01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:06,200 Speaker 1: there's three kids and units at the table start word 1964 01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:10,200 Speaker 1: for word wrapping the first, second, and third songs like 1965 01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:12,960 Speaker 1: I just it was. It was, And then as it 1966 01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:14,800 Speaker 1: kind of pushed Katie on more and more of her friends, 1967 01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:19,160 Speaker 1: like it's a It was just a phenomenon through all 1968 01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,880 Speaker 1: these junior high kids that were just fully into a 1969 01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:25,760 Speaker 1: musical of hip hop about warning the about one of 1970 01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:28,360 Speaker 1: the founding fathers. I found it fascinating even so much 1971 01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:31,800 Speaker 1: like Uh. This past Valentine's Day a few days ago, 1972 01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:34,080 Speaker 1: I came home and I was looking at her lunch 1973 01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:37,200 Speaker 1: box and one of her friend had made Hamilton's Valentine's Day. 1974 01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:39,800 Speaker 1: It was like Linn Manuel and it says, I'm not 1975 01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:42,200 Speaker 1: going to waste my shot on you with a little 1976 01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:45,559 Speaker 1: hard around it. So like it's It really is kind 1977 01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:49,040 Speaker 1: of a phenomenon of how this musical has like all 1978 01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:52,240 Speaker 1: the way down to like young kids. Wow, it really sustains. 1979 01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:54,360 Speaker 1: Now you've been doing this for twenty five years, you 1980 01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:56,800 Speaker 1: like music as much I love it. I love it. 1981 01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:00,400 Speaker 1: In fact, I was last weekend just making mixed well 1982 01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, make masage, make playlists now, but it was 1983 01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:06,160 Speaker 1: making playlists and digging around. And that's what one of 1984 01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,240 Speaker 1: the things I love about Spotify is that my music 1985 01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:10,920 Speaker 1: collection is so much bigger now so it was. It's 1986 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,840 Speaker 1: way more fun than when I was eighteen in my 1987 01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:16,040 Speaker 1: bedroom with limited by how much I could afford to 1988 01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,240 Speaker 1: buy of music in a given day. Well, Rick, this 1989 01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:21,439 Speaker 1: has been wonderful. We've covered a lot of ground both 1990 01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:23,960 Speaker 1: for the people on the inside and on the outside. 1991 01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:26,439 Speaker 1: You missed the pra seed before we turn on the 1992 01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:29,920 Speaker 1: mics where we discuss chocolate chip cookies and soda. We'll 1993 01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:31,680 Speaker 1: have to have a comeback for that. But thanks so 1994 01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:33,800 Speaker 1: much for doing the Bob left Sets pods for having 1995 01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:40,200 Speaker 1: me Bob. That wraps up this episode of the Bob 1996 01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:43,400 Speaker 1: Left Sets Podcast with my guest Rick Mueller of A 1997 01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:46,639 Speaker 1: G Presents. I really enjoy getting to hear his path 1998 01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:48,640 Speaker 1: through the music business. But I know, based on the 1999 01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:51,240 Speaker 1: fact that so many people listen to and comment on 2000 01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:54,439 Speaker 1: the Nathan Hubbard podcast, that this ticketing conversation is an 2001 01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:57,719 Speaker 1: interesting one. If you want to take a deep dive 2002 01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:00,200 Speaker 1: into ticketing, go back to episode two with the Thin 2003 01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:03,200 Speaker 1: if you haven't already and get his perspective. Don't miss 2004 01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:05,920 Speaker 1: an episode of my podcast by subscribing on tune in, 2005 01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:09,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or your app of choice. Until next time, 2006 01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:16,800 Speaker 1: I'm Bob left steps. He reason don't know exactly one 2007 01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:21,439 Speaker 1: must be it's out of this seas