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Speaker 2: co slash MMA. All right, welcome to hoops tonight here
Speaker 2: at the volume. Happy Tuesday, everybody, Oh love you guys
Speaker 2: are having a great week. Well, we are going to
Speaker 2: be diving headlong into the NBA Draft today, which is tomorrow.
Speaker 2: It feels like the NBA Finals were yesterday and here
Speaker 2: we are. The draft has already to take place. I
Speaker 2: can think of nobody better than mister Sam Besini, my
Speaker 2: good friend, somebody that I trust as a basketball mind
Speaker 2: more than most. But I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna come off as pandering here, but I think
Speaker 2: he's the very best at covering the draft as well.
Speaker 2: In addition to diving into a year round, he also
Speaker 2: gets the players themselves on his show with him. They
Speaker 2: go over tape together, he picks their brain. It's just
Speaker 2: it's an incredible Uh, it's just an incredible process that
Speaker 2: he goes through to properly cover the draft. If you
Speaker 2: guys haven't checked out his draft guid yet, you have to.
Speaker 2: If you're not following or subscribing to his YouTube channel yet,
Speaker 2: you need to. But Sam, I'm really excited to get
Speaker 2: into this draft today.
Speaker 1: I was telling you.
Speaker 2: Before we we uh, before we started the show, that
Speaker 2: this is one of the hardest shows that I've ever
Speaker 2: had to prep for, just simply because I don't look
Speaker 2: at the draft at all during the regular season, and
Speaker 2: that I try to cram it all in in a week.
Speaker 2: But also there's just so much up in the air
Speaker 2: this year. It feels like nobody knows where anybody's going.
Speaker 2: And obviously you're a lot more well connected, and it
Speaker 2: seems like from what you've told me that it's been
Speaker 2: like that for you as well. So why don't you
Speaker 2: just tell us a little bit about this draft and
Speaker 2: what it's been like covering it this season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. I mean, the big thing
Speaker 3: that I would take away from this is that because
Speaker 3: the talent is so flat at the top, right, there's
Speaker 3: no Victor wembin Yama. There's no like everyone knew Kay
Speaker 3: Cottingham was going number one the year that Kay Countingham
Speaker 3: went number one. There's nos that I'm Williamson. I would argue,
Speaker 3: there's not even really like a Markel Foltz where people
Speaker 3: felt like, you know, longso Ball and Jason Tatum in
Speaker 3: that year were pretty similar at least, if not, you know,
Speaker 3: in the same tier to Markelle Fultz. It was very
Speaker 3: clear that Markell was gonna go number one that year.
Speaker 3: I would argue, there's not even you know, for instance,
Speaker 3: I do tiers in the draft guide every year, and
Speaker 3: I don't have a Tier one or a Tier two player.
Speaker 3: Tier one guys are like guys I expect to be
Speaker 3: all NBA players.
Speaker 2: Tier two I noticed that I was confused. I was like,
Speaker 2: am I missing pages? Like what's going on here?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So Tier two is guys that, like I think, you know,
Speaker 3: very realistic chance that they're all stars. It's like you're like,
Speaker 3: I thought chet holmme Grid fit into that bucket. I
Speaker 3: thought Paula Banco fitted into that bucket really high level.
Speaker 3: I think both those guys are probably gonna exceed that
Speaker 3: at the end of the day. But you know, I
Speaker 3: had some questions about them in general, and I felt
Speaker 3: a little bit more confident putting them into the All
Speaker 3: Star bucket as opposed to like the definite like you know,
Speaker 3: top fifteen guys in the league, like All NBA bucket. Right,
Speaker 3: I had Victor in that bucket last year. I don't
Speaker 3: have anybody in those two tiers. And I'm not like
Speaker 3: Stingy with those grades. In the four years I've been
Speaker 3: doing the draft guy prior to this one, I've ranked
Speaker 3: sixteen players with a Tier one or Tier two grade. Look,
Speaker 3: sometimes it works out and you have Brandon Miller with
Speaker 3: a Tier two grade. Other times it doesn't work out,
Speaker 3: and you have James Wiseman with a Tier two grade. Right,
Speaker 3: And I think I had Tier two's on like Anthony
Speaker 3: Edwards and LaMelo Ball year. You know, I think I
Speaker 3: had you know, I think Evan Mobley was two. I
Speaker 3: think Jalen Green was two. I think Sugs was the two,
Speaker 3: and I still believe in basically all those guys in
Speaker 3: some respects. But yeah, I would say that this class
Speaker 3: does not have a guy that I look at and
Speaker 3: I can confidently project all star like an all star
Speaker 3: future onto them undeniably just by the law of large
Speaker 3: numbers in the way that development works. Once these kids
Speaker 3: get into situations, guys will emerge as all stars, no
Speaker 3: questions asked. But when trying to find like a middle
Speaker 3: ground in terms of that evaluation and like an expected outcome,
Speaker 3: I don't know that I can like confidently tell you
Speaker 3: this specific player like I have Alex R at number one.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can tell you that Alex
Speaker 3: aar I am expecting a number one level of production
Speaker 3: or an all star quality level production for him. I
Speaker 3: think he has a chance to be that player. I
Speaker 3: think there are certainly outcomes that he can hit where
Speaker 3: he becomes that player. But I don't know that I
Speaker 3: can sit here and tell you for sure that you
Speaker 3: know that that's what I expect of him either, And
Speaker 3: that goes all the way through my top group of prospects,
Speaker 3: So you know there will be all stars that come
Speaker 3: out of this class. It's just going to be really
Speaker 3: hard to identify them, and I think that they're going
Speaker 3: to be maybe even a little bit more development based
Speaker 3: than what we've seen in previous years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. So let me put you on
Speaker 2: the spot here. So if you had Jalen Green as
Speaker 2: a Tier two prospect, does that mean that if Jalen
Speaker 2: Green was coming out of this class you would have
Speaker 2: had him number one.
Speaker 3: I'm not even close.
Speaker 2: That's super fascinating to me, and I'm not surprised because like,
Speaker 2: obviously I went through all these guys today and like
Speaker 2: Alex Sar obviously you had at number one. That was
Speaker 2: a guy we're going to talk about Zachary Rosasche here
Speaker 2: in a minute, because he's actually the Veguas favorite to
Speaker 2: go number one, which I really want to dive into
Speaker 2: here in a minute. But as I was watching Alex,
Speaker 2: I'm like, good player, really good defensive player. Doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like a number one overall pick to me, you know,
Speaker 2: And so like that makes sense to me, and like
Speaker 2: and to your point, like just that kind of that
Speaker 2: kind of tier that you're talking about, that tier too,
Speaker 2: And I by the way, Chet and Pawlow like they
Speaker 2: both have exceeded expectations. I would say, when they got
Speaker 2: to the NBA, they both have been better faster than
Speaker 2: we expected. And that's I think that those sound properly
Speaker 2: rated to me. So like I wanted you had mentioned
Speaker 2: to me before we started too, that you wanted to
Speaker 2: that you were expecting a lot of draft d a
Speaker 2: trades or things surrounding the draft that involved trades. Let's
Speaker 2: get to that as we kind of go through the picks.
Speaker 2: So I want to start with number one here. So
Speaker 2: according to DraftKings, Zachary Versace is the heavy favorite.
Speaker 1: To go number one overall.
Speaker 2: As I was watching his film, I'm like, interesting, kind
Speaker 2: of like weak side shooters, super confident, can drive, close
Speaker 2: out some interesting stuff on the ball. I thought about
Speaker 2: what you talked about with me when you came on
Speaker 2: during the finals, and we talked about like the two
Speaker 2: things that you look for in in uh like in
Speaker 2: terms of success for modern NBA basketball with spacing and
Speaker 2: then groundcoverage on defense. And I thought about his length,
Speaker 2: and he's pretty mobile, and he's pretty good on the
Speaker 2: weak side, like jumping passing lanes and being a help defender.
Speaker 2: But again, I I don't even see the angle there
Speaker 2: over Alex sar So, like, what is what is? What
Speaker 2: do you think is driving the intel that Zachary's gonna
Speaker 2: go potentially number one overall? Do you expect that to happen?
Speaker 2: And if so, is it gonna go? Do you think
Speaker 2: he'll end up in Atlanta or do you think there'll
Speaker 2: be a trade there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the easiest way for me to talk about
Speaker 3: this right now is first and foremost, I don't feel
Speaker 3: wildly confident about anything with Atlanta. And the big key
Speaker 3: with Atlanta is there are just a number of voices
Speaker 3: in that room. From what I understand, Quinn Sneider is
Speaker 3: certainly a voice in that room. They convinced him to come,
Speaker 3: you know, out of after he left Utah, and like
Speaker 3: they didn't convince him to come just by telling him,
Speaker 3: you know, you're the coach and that's it, right, Like
Speaker 3: he has a voice in the room whenever it comes
Speaker 3: down to crunch time. Landry Fields certainly is a voice,
Speaker 3: you know there is there are differing degrees to which
Speaker 3: you will hear from folks that ownership and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: Tony Wrestler and his son Nick Wrestler will have a
Speaker 3: voice when it comes to it on draft night. So
Speaker 3: that creates a lot of differing incentives. It creates a
Speaker 3: lot of very challenging things for opposing teams. Is they're
Speaker 3: trying to get a plan for what Atlanta's trying to
Speaker 3: do to parse through. I would say that right now, look,
Speaker 3: I have the Nachary Risichet marked or mocked right now
Speaker 3: at number one. They I know that Atlanta has certainly
Speaker 3: reached out to a few different teams looking at potentially
Speaker 3: moving down the board. They're trying to figure out is
Speaker 3: there a way we can trade down? Which makes sense? Right,
Speaker 3: They're looking at a number of different options on a
Speaker 3: board where one through five or so looks pretty steady.
Speaker 3: Right in terms of talent. There are teams that have
Speaker 3: preferences in that group. There are teams that maybe have
Speaker 3: one of those guys a little bit ahead of the other.
Speaker 3: But it makes sense why you would try and trade
Speaker 3: down when all of the talent is relatively flat. The
Speaker 3: problem that I understand the running into is like who's
Speaker 3: gonna move up in that case? Who's trying to you know,
Speaker 3: get to Zachary versus Chet When you know, I kind
Speaker 3: of just outlined that I don't think that his likely
Speaker 3: outcome is necessarily like all star. I think he's going
Speaker 3: to be a really good starter. I think he's gonna
Speaker 3: be a guy that you know, like you said, like
Speaker 3: great week side shooter. I think he can attack closeouts,
Speaker 3: But the problem is, I think he struggles to maintain
Speaker 3: advantages after attacking. He's very skinny right now, So it's
Speaker 3: a big hope that he can continue to develop his
Speaker 3: frame and really get stronger. Despite being like kind of
Speaker 3: thinly framed, Like he doesn't have a lot like wide shoulders.
Speaker 3: He's actually like quite skinny in terms of his shoulders.
Speaker 3: So like the worry there is how does the frame develop?
Speaker 3: Is he going to be able to actually maintain the
Speaker 3: advantages that he creates in space? In traffic? I think
Speaker 3: that he generally has struggled a little bit with contact
Speaker 3: this season. If you look at him when he's like
Speaker 3: driving to the ram and trying to finish, if he
Speaker 3: gets bumped, I think that like he kind of loses
Speaker 3: control of the ball, loses control of his touch a
Speaker 3: little bit. So I I have him at number five. Personally,
Speaker 3: I really like him, and again I have him in
Speaker 3: this top group, So anybody in that top group of players,
Speaker 3: like I'm not going to crush Atlanta for taking them,
Speaker 3: because I just don't see it as all that different.
Speaker 3: But yeah, like you mentioned Dlex Sar Like, I just
Speaker 3: think Sara is bigger, covers ground a little bit better.
Speaker 3: He's definitely a worse shooter than what risus Schet is,
Speaker 3: but I think that if you look at where the
Speaker 3: league is going, like these dribble pass shoot bigs are
Speaker 3: kind of worth their weight in gold, and I would
Speaker 3: just rather take in informed. This NBA draft is all about.
Speaker 3: This is the easiest way for me to explain it.
Speaker 3: This NBA draft is all about informed bets.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: You're trying to think about this in terms of bets,
Speaker 3: not in terms of you know what this guy is
Speaker 3: going to be. I am trying to figure out who
Speaker 3: are my best bets in terms of the intersection of
Speaker 3: upside and like relatively high floor. I have Stephan Castle
Speaker 3: ahead of Zachary rissa Chet. I think Steph's upside is
Speaker 3: higher than risus Chet because I think Steph can pass,
Speaker 3: I think that he can play through traffic. I think
Speaker 3: he's a better defender than risus Chet, But undeniably his
Speaker 3: floor is lower than risus Chet's because risus Chet can
Speaker 3: shoot it, and Steph Castle right now struggles to shoot it.
Speaker 3: If Steph Castle continues to struggle to shoot it, it's
Speaker 3: gonna be a problem for Steph. But if the shot
Speaker 3: comes to, the informed bet that you're taking would be
Speaker 3: that Steph Cassel is probably going to become an All
Speaker 3: star if the shot comes together in time. So thinking
Speaker 3: about this draft almost more in terms of like bets
Speaker 3: and like informed bets, And I don't like love it
Speaker 3: seems like dehumanizing on some level, and I don't necessarily
Speaker 3: love framing it that way, but that's the way that
Speaker 3: you almost have to think about it in terms of
Speaker 3: like investing in this class in some way.
Speaker 2: Well, in the ruthless world of sports, that is how
Speaker 2: it works, unfortunately, But I agree with you it is
Speaker 2: kind of it is kind of funky talking about it.
Speaker 2: I always feel like it's weird being like a super
Speaker 2: micromanergy about prospects too. You're like, oh, this guy struggles
Speaker 2: with this, It's like, but he's awesome about all this
Speaker 2: other stuff. It's kind of just the weird nature of
Speaker 2: the job in so many different ways. Totally, Yeah, I'm confused. So, like,
Speaker 2: if Atlanta were to take Risus Shay. How does that
Speaker 2: clash with Jalen Johnson, because don't they kind of are
Speaker 2: they viewing him more as a threat.
Speaker 3: I think it's actually a good fit with Jalen Johnson
Speaker 3: for what it's worth, because Jalen, I think, is probably
Speaker 3: gonna be best as like a crash and like bang
Speaker 3: athlete who runs up and down the court and transition
Speaker 3: and is physical and is you know, driving. I think
Speaker 3: Versus Shay can like help space the floor and then
Speaker 3: you can have guys at the three and four. Jalen
Speaker 3: Johnson's like this immense athlete who's you know, driving and
Speaker 3: trying to pass and playmake and do everything that we've
Speaker 3: seen him do in his breakout season this year in
Speaker 3: his third year, Versus Shay can be the you know,
Speaker 3: kind of off wing who can really knock down shots
Speaker 3: and be able to like have like high level defensive
Speaker 3: capabilities on the weak side, uh, taking up a bunch
Speaker 3: of space with his frame and with his length. And
Speaker 3: Jalen Johnson as well is a pretty good defender. So
Speaker 3: I actually really like that fit. I do like have
Speaker 3: questions about what it would mean for somebody like DeAndre Hunter.
Speaker 3: Do they try and just move you on Hunter the
Speaker 3: summer at the end of the day. Uh, I have
Speaker 3: some questions about, you know, what it would mean for
Speaker 3: their guard room just in general. That's another piece of
Speaker 3: this Atlanta conversation is nobody knows with the rest of
Speaker 3: the well straight up, just with the rest of their roster, Like,
Speaker 3: you know, how are they going to get under the
Speaker 3: tax Like are they gonna trade Clint Capella? Are they
Speaker 3: going to try and do it via the potential to
Speaker 3: John sat Murray trade like it? You know, will they
Speaker 3: consider moving Trey Young if someone tried to blow them
Speaker 3: away with an offer. There's just so many different variables
Speaker 3: with the Hawks right now, and that's what makes rejecting
Speaker 3: their pick hard. Folks around the league that I talked
Speaker 3: to do tend to say risset Chet's name more than others.
Speaker 3: But Donovan Klingon went in there, had a great workout
Speaker 3: with Atlanta from what I understand, really, you know, fits
Speaker 3: a lot of what Quinn Snyder particularly is looking for
Speaker 3: from the center position, having come from Utah, having had
Speaker 3: Rudy Gobert, who was this unbelievable screener, unbelievable drop coverage
Speaker 3: rim protector big. I think that Quinn Snyder would do
Speaker 3: a lot of really great things with Donovan Klingen, But
Speaker 3: Donovan Klingon would not be a particularly sexy number one
Speaker 3: overall pick, right as I'm sure you watched when you
Speaker 3: saw Klingon, you know, really good player, like gonna be
Speaker 3: an awesome player if he snuck like an All Star
Speaker 3: Berth kind of like how Jarrett Allen did that year
Speaker 3: in Cleveland, would by no means surprise me. But I
Speaker 3: would say he projects as like a top ten starting
Speaker 3: center in the league. And that's just like not something
Speaker 3: teams are wildly enthusiastic about taking it. One.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I had mentioned the fit, I was more
Speaker 2: meaning on the defensive end. Do you think Jalen Johnson's
Speaker 2: good enough on the ball, Because I always get worried
Speaker 2: about the as someone who rooted for the Lakers last year,
Speaker 2: When you have a three and four that both suck
Speaker 2: on the ball, it could be a little bit of
Speaker 2: an issue. And so that's more what I look at, like,
Speaker 2: I almost want one of my three or four to
Speaker 2: be a guy that can like fight over screens and
Speaker 2: chase a shooter around.
Speaker 1: Or chase a ball handler around.
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Speaker 4: slash volume.
Speaker 2: What I like about the Alex sarfit is like it
Speaker 2: makes sense, Like you think of Jalen Johnson and Alex
Speaker 2: Sar as kind of like this foundational kind of front court. Obviously,
Speaker 2: right now, Alex Sar is not good enough offensively to
Speaker 2: play the four.
Speaker 1: Actually, one of the.
Speaker 2: Things that I'm one of the reasons why I'm higher
Speaker 2: on Alex, even though the shooting is obviously an issue. Well,
Speaker 2: first of all, his shooting has been making some improvements.
Speaker 2: It seems like year over year the form isn't awful.
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 2: It doesn't cause me any major concerns. And the main
Speaker 2: thing is is he's really comfortable with dribble handoffs, which
Speaker 2: makes me think, like, especially if Quinn Snyder were to
Speaker 2: kind of continue to kind of like build out more
Speaker 2: of a five out type of system where there's more
Speaker 2: ball in player movement and Jalen Johnson's coming off of
Speaker 2: dribble handoffs out of you know, Chicago action out of
Speaker 2: the corner and stuff like that. Like, I just imagine
Speaker 2: Alex Sar being a really functional piece there. I liked
Speaker 2: the short role reps he was getting with Bryce Cotton
Speaker 2: out in Perth to like just when he was just
Speaker 2: making quick decisions on the role. Like I just kind
Speaker 2: of see him as more of a shoe in natural fit.
Speaker 2: But to your point, like what it's like, if you
Speaker 2: like Zachary Rissasche, how how long how big of a
Speaker 2: drop off is it to like a Cody Williams as
Speaker 2: a big, lanky wing that can that can play if
Speaker 2: you were to trade down, how big of a drop
Speaker 2: off is it to go from an Alex Sar to
Speaker 2: a different big further down in the draft. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, if you can't actually trade down because
Speaker 2: no one else wants to trade up, then you're kind
Speaker 2: of stuck. And so like to me, Alex Sar just
Speaker 2: kind of seems like a more natural fit in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: But I mean, the Vegas numbers seemed pretty confident that
Speaker 2: he's going to be headed, that it's going to be
Speaker 2: Zachary Resachet. So if ver Sachet goes one, who do
Speaker 2: you think goes number two?
Speaker 1: To Washington? Yeah?
Speaker 3: The name that I've gotten mostly connected there is Sar.
Speaker 3: You know, it feels like you know that that seems
Speaker 3: like where this is headed is Alex R to Washington.
Speaker 3: Will Dawkins, who is now the general manager of the
Speaker 3: Washington Wizards, was the assistant general manager of the Oklahoma
Speaker 3: City thunder Prying prior to getting the shob you know,
Speaker 3: played a role in drafting chet Holm Grin. Alex Ar
Speaker 3: certainly also repped by w M. E. Bill Duffy, the
Speaker 3: same agent that he's represents chet Holmgrin. It's it's a
Speaker 3: pretty easy connection to make there in terms of you know,
Speaker 3: Will Dawkins, I think wants guys that have this immense
Speaker 3: upside athletically and allows him to play a potentially interesting
Speaker 3: five out brand of basketball in a similar way to
Speaker 3: how Oklahoma City has built their roster. It is difficult
Speaker 3: to find senators who can dribble pass shoot, or at
Speaker 3: least that have potential to dribble pass shoot. It's part
Speaker 3: of the reason, like we're not going to talk about
Speaker 3: this guy today, but you know, Kyle Philipowski seems to
Speaker 3: be a guy that's like kind of falling down boards
Speaker 3: whenever I talk to teams, Like, I don't know where
Speaker 3: his flora is on draft night quite yet, but I'm
Speaker 3: way higher on him because he's a genuine dribble pass
Speaker 3: shoot big man in an NBA that is like begging
Speaker 3: for those guys right now. Alex Aar has potential to
Speaker 3: genuinely be that on offense, even if it is trying
Speaker 3: to think about the extent to which I want to
Speaker 3: say is quite theoretical right now at this point. The jumper,
Speaker 3: you know, when I watched him throughout the year, I
Speaker 3: thought it had way too much offhand interaction more than anything,
Speaker 3: he'd get like a bit of a side spin on
Speaker 3: the ball. When I saw him later in the year,
Speaker 3: he clearly had been working through cleaning that up in
Speaker 3: a real way. It looks a little bit less side spinny.
Speaker 3: And then I saw him in a pre draft workout,
Speaker 3: and you know, look, there was like a very very
Speaker 3: small amount of side spin, but it was clear that
Speaker 3: like he's making that adjustment, you know, in real time
Speaker 3: being a teenager kind of fixing his shot. I think
Speaker 3: he has good rhythm through the shot. I think he
Speaker 3: has very good balance for a guy he moves like
Speaker 3: a wing at seven feet tall, right, like seven foot
Speaker 3: four wingspin, and you know that ground coverage defensively is
Speaker 3: really critical. He's very comfortable dribbling with the ball in
Speaker 3: his hands. You mentioned kind of the dribble handoff game,
Speaker 3: the short role passing that I think he's flat, but
Speaker 3: it's all it's all in flashes though right now with
Speaker 3: Alex it's not you know, this is not chet Holmgrin.
Speaker 3: When chet Holmgren came out Againzaga, I was like, this
Speaker 3: is the most like anticipatory big defender that I've evaluated.
Speaker 3: Like he just doesn't have Victor's tools, right, you know,
Speaker 3: Victor is foot four with an eight foot standing reach,
Speaker 3: which gives him this like immense margin for error. But
Speaker 3: like Chet's anticipation defensively is unbelievable for a guy that is,
Speaker 3: you know, seven foot with seven foot five winspan. And
Speaker 3: then on offense, he's a forty three point shooter at
Speaker 3: Gonzaga who could like grab and go on the break
Speaker 3: and like be functional with his balance and coordination. Like
Speaker 3: Alex isn't any of that yet, but he has potential
Speaker 3: to get to a point where he is like a
Speaker 3: fifteen point you know, eight rebound, you know ree assists
Speaker 3: per game guy that's also a really high level defender
Speaker 3: with like all defense level upside because of how much
Speaker 3: ground he can cover on the weak side. And I
Speaker 3: think even in switch scenario down the road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love how aggressive he is in ball screens too,
Speaker 2: Like one of my biggest pet peeves watching bigs defend
Speaker 2: in ball screens. This used to always kill me with
Speaker 2: Daniel Gafford when I was scouting him. But when the
Speaker 2: Mavericks got him where it's almost like they just they
Speaker 2: almost find themselves in no man's land where they're not
Speaker 2: bothering the ball handler or bothering the roll man in
Speaker 2: any way, shape or form, like what And he gets
Speaker 2: burned for it sometimes. But I like how Alex is
Speaker 2: aggressive on the ball handler. And one of the reasons
Speaker 2: why I think that could be beneficial is, like, especially
Speaker 2: against certain types of teams with the guards are a
Speaker 2: little hesitant to make those passes or when they struggle
Speaker 2: to make those passes. His length, being aggressive in ball
Speaker 2: screens I think could be useful. I think he does
Speaker 2: have a pretty damn high floor, which is why it
Speaker 2: made sense to me that you had him at number one.
Speaker 2: Like he's going to be a solid NBA center. It's
Speaker 2: just a question of whether or not he has that
Speaker 2: true upside, and obviously only time will tell. As you said,
Speaker 2: it's an informed gamble. So number two on your big board,
Speaker 2: you had Reed Shepherd out. Obviously he had that rough
Speaker 2: game in the NCAA tournament, but he had just a
Speaker 2: historic shooting season at Kentucky. I was really fascinated reading
Speaker 2: in your draft guide his his background and just the
Speaker 2: pedigree that he came from, and just like, just like
Speaker 2: that's crazy. His dad was the most outstanding player in
Speaker 2: the NCAA tournament back in ninety eight, was it ninety eight?
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, like that, that is crazy. He's Kentucky royalty.
Speaker 2: Like it's the easiest way to put it, like he
Speaker 2: is University of Kentucky royalty. Like his dad, Jeff is
Speaker 2: one of the like beloved players in the University of
Speaker 2: Kentucky's basketball history, and his mom, Stacey is like one
Speaker 2: of you know when she retire, you know, stopped playing
Speaker 2: at Kentucky. I think she was like one of the
Speaker 2: ten best players in University of Kentucky history.
Speaker 3: Like it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what you had in the bios.
Speaker 2: She's a top I think she's like top ten all
Speaker 2: time in scoring at Kentucky, which is crazy. So I
Speaker 2: do you read in my brief little film session I
Speaker 2: did with him, I kind of view him as a
Speaker 2: guy that I think could be a really good fifth,
Speaker 2: like fifth best player on a good team, just because
Speaker 2: he does everything really well, functions within a team really well.
Speaker 2: Just a deadly shooter from all these different ranges. He's
Speaker 2: got the ability to get shots off from every kind
Speaker 2: of footwork, Like he can hop into it, he can
Speaker 2: left right, he can right left, he can come off
Speaker 2: the movie, he can go off the bouts. Like, there's
Speaker 2: so much that he can do creatively a little bit.
Speaker 2: Ausa reeves in there with some of the creative rise
Speaker 2: and fire stuff from the fifteen to eighteen foot range.
Speaker 2: Where where do you see? Where do you want him
Speaker 2: to go? Where do you expect him to end up?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I like the idea of him in Hugiston personally,
Speaker 3: when I look at that young Houston core, I see
Speaker 3: you know, Amen Thompson, Jabari Smith, Jalen Green, Tari Eason,
Speaker 3: you know Cam Whittmore certainly I think deserves to be
Speaker 3: mentioned in that group. And then Alfred Shengun of course,
Speaker 3: is like their you know center that you know could
Speaker 3: be an All Stars soon as next season. And the
Speaker 3: one thing that I think they're missing there is like
Speaker 3: a super high level shooter at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: getting read to like operate in dribble handoffs with Aupura
Speaker 3: and Shngun like that would be disgusting to me. I
Speaker 3: also think Reid like really fits well with a men
Speaker 3: Thompson in terms of like having that secondary playmaker out
Speaker 3: there if you want to try and make a man
Speaker 3: a point guard, which is what he was drafted as,
Speaker 3: even though this year he played kind of more on
Speaker 3: the wing and like even in the front court at
Speaker 3: times after sheng Gun went down. I think that Reed
Speaker 3: just makes a ton of sense for them as like
Speaker 3: a connector and is the kind of guy that helps
Speaker 3: you win. I think that his anticipation defensively is just
Speaker 3: like outstanding. He has physical tools that are very limiting.
Speaker 3: He is six foot one, not super long in terms
Speaker 3: of his uh, you know, arm length or anything. He
Speaker 3: has like a six three six four wingspan something like that.
Speaker 3: But he blocked shots. You know, he has a forty
Speaker 3: inch vertical leap and he blocked like point seven shots
Speaker 3: this year, which is a crazy number for a guy
Speaker 3: that measured in just under six foot two. He is
Speaker 3: somebody that like really scrambles well on the back line defensively,
Speaker 3: Like he makes these crazy like scramble reads where he'll
Speaker 3: just like force steals at a super high level. And
Speaker 3: one thing that like I've watched a lot of recently,
Speaker 3: and we'll talk about this when we talk about Devin Carter.
Speaker 1: Two.
Speaker 3: I know that you are a fan of after watching
Speaker 3: his tape. The degree to which you can space the court,
Speaker 3: not just in terms of percentage, but in terms of
Speaker 3: how far away you can actually shoot from. That is
Speaker 3: really important to me, if only because if you don't
Speaker 3: have these immense athletic tools or an immense bag of
Speaker 3: like tricks where you're crossing dudes up. I think that
Speaker 3: being able to shoot from thirty feet is kind of
Speaker 3: a differentiator because It gives you so much more space
Speaker 3: to operate away from help defense. If you can change
Speaker 3: pace and you can shoot from thirty feet, it's just
Speaker 3: hard to stay in front of guys just point blank.
Speaker 3: At this point in the NBA, Reid made fifty percent
Speaker 3: of his threes from beyond what is the number here?
Speaker 3: I have from beyond twenty seven feet this year, So,
Speaker 3: like crazy, I kind of think that you're gonna have
Speaker 3: to account for him in such a real way. It's
Speaker 3: kind of like Tyrese Haliburton, right, Tyre's Halliburton has that
Speaker 3: kind of funky load into his shot.
Speaker 1: So what did he do?
Speaker 3: He just learned how to shoot from thirty feet at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, and that's how he became
Speaker 3: so valuable as like a floor space there and then
Speaker 3: allowed him to use his passing ability and take advantage
Speaker 3: and really get into the teeth of the defense and
Speaker 3: spray the ball out. I'm not saying that Reid is
Speaker 3: that as a passer. I don't think he is. I
Speaker 3: think Read's the best transition passer in this draft class.
Speaker 3: But in terms of like half court reads, I think
Speaker 3: he's still figuring it out. But I also think that
Speaker 3: like that shooting gravity gives him way more upside than
Speaker 3: what people are thinking in the class when mixed with
Speaker 3: the fact that he can also handle the ball.
Speaker 2: I like the Houston Fit a lot too, just because
Speaker 2: I imagine with them playing a lot with pace and with
Speaker 2: all their athletes in transition. I loved watching his footage
Speaker 2: at Kentucky operating in transition, where like everyone's kind of
Speaker 2: scattered and that's when he can really get into some
Speaker 2: nifty footwork and dribble combinations and to pull up three
Speaker 2: point shots. And I just imagine defense is reacting to
Speaker 2: him there and then just athletes running around him and
Speaker 2: him being able to find those reads. I enjoyed watching
Speaker 2: him today.
Speaker 3: Or even even better with that real quick or a
Speaker 3: men Thompson like sprints down the court all the way
Speaker 3: and then you've just got Reed Shepherd like trailing and
Speaker 3: sprang out to the wings, right. Yeah, Like it's just
Speaker 3: it's really synergistic in the way it would work. I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the thirty footers two are great when you get
Speaker 2: to be old like me, that's how you that's how
Speaker 2: you play lazy basketball. You're you're six six and you
Speaker 2: shoot thirty foot three point shots and you don't have
Speaker 2: to worry about landing on someone's ankle.
Speaker 1: Okay, so uh.
Speaker 2: Stefan Kass from Yukon famously was being left wide open
Speaker 2: in the tournament but making some making making him pay
Speaker 2: hit a couple of them. I really enjoyed watching him too.
Speaker 2: It's kind of there were some fun players I enjoyed watching.
Speaker 2: There's some fun players in this in this draft. The
Speaker 2: to me, Stefan Castle kind of reminds me of like
Speaker 2: a bigger version of Jalen Hood Chafino, if that makes sense,
Speaker 2: in the sense that like he's very it's very pace
Speaker 2: pace heavy. I know, I know, but you gotta remember,
Speaker 2: like like I've I that that burned me too.
Speaker 1: It's a whole other thing. But uh uh.
Speaker 2: The what I mean by that is, like I he
Speaker 2: reminded me of Jalenhod Chafino when I was scouting him
Speaker 2: last year, where it's like the jumpers, the big question mark,
Speaker 2: more of like a power methodical put you in jail,
Speaker 2: kind of operate from the short range kind of area,
Speaker 2: deadly hook and floater, short jump shot, that sort of thing,
Speaker 2: but just a way better version of him. And the
Speaker 2: main reason why I think his footwork is better. I
Speaker 2: think he's got more counter moves in that short to
Speaker 2: mid range that allows him to operate. And like, honestly,
Speaker 2: like I didn't see anything with his jump shot. He's
Speaker 2: a little down in front of the face, a little
Speaker 2: bit of a long load, but I think that can
Speaker 2: be worked out in time. I'm I'm pretty high on
Speaker 2: Stefan Castle. I saw you had him way up at
Speaker 2: third on your list. Where do you see him ending up?
Speaker 3: I'm really glad that you brought up the shot because
Speaker 3: you know, you mentioned that, like he has like the
Speaker 3: load up here and then like it comes up and
Speaker 3: it's kind of a funky shot, and he has like
Speaker 3: a little bit of a hitch kind of at the top.
Speaker 3: I think that that's mostly when he's kind of going
Speaker 3: to his left. I think when he's going to his left,
Speaker 3: because like most right handed shooters right just more comfortable
Speaker 3: stepping back to their left or kind of you know,
Speaker 3: drifting to their left a little bit, just helps them
Speaker 3: get into rhythm a little bit easier. But with him,
Speaker 3: what I see is he drifts a little bit too
Speaker 3: far to his left, and I think it kind of
Speaker 3: like throws off his grat like center of balance. And everything,
Speaker 3: And I think the SHOT's a little bit hitchier when
Speaker 3: he's going to his right. He tends to take those
Speaker 3: shots off the hop, and I think that, like it
Speaker 3: just looks way cleaner, And I think that everything like
Speaker 3: kind of tracks a little bit easier. And if I
Speaker 3: was an organization kind of working through his shot, like
Speaker 3: I would love to just you know, kind of with
Speaker 3: his shot prep and like you know, getting into the
Speaker 3: shot and his load into it, just like start having
Speaker 3: him take things off the hop a little bit more.
Speaker 3: Like he does this a one to two step from
Speaker 3: the left side, take it off the hop in the right, Like,
Speaker 3: I just think it looks cleaner, uh, going off the hop.
Speaker 3: But in terms of where I see him going, you know,
Speaker 3: san Antonio has been connected with him, you know, for
Speaker 3: a while now, you know, for a couple of months.
Speaker 3: It feels like that is a situation that everyone would
Speaker 3: be like pretty amenable to in terms of both san
Speaker 3: Antonio and Castle's camp. If you know, there was somebody
Speaker 3: who fell to number four, Like if Red Shepherd got there,
Speaker 3: I think it would be a question. If Rissuschet got
Speaker 3: to four, I think it'd be a real question. But
Speaker 3: and then I think the Castle would very likely probably
Speaker 3: go six at the latest. You know, maybe eight would
Speaker 3: be the latest, let's say, because I would be surprised
Speaker 3: if he would get beyond the San Antonio second pick
Speaker 3: at number eight, right. But somewhere in that four to
Speaker 3: eight range, I would say is where Steph will end up.
Speaker 3: I think that you kind of hit the down on
Speaker 3: the head in terms of what the offense is. I
Speaker 3: think he's a really sharp passer. If you'd even go
Speaker 3: back to his high school stuff, you can see some
Speaker 3: like really impressive ball screen reps utilizing his passing ability
Speaker 3: where he'd hit skip passes pretty well and he'd be
Speaker 3: able to really really be able to get downhill out
Speaker 3: of that screen and maintain that advantage, kind of like
Speaker 3: you mentioned keeping guys in jail, kind of on his
Speaker 3: hip and everything. The big question is the shot though.
Speaker 3: And the other thing I will say is I don't
Speaker 3: know if I think of him as an all defense
Speaker 3: level defender, but I think of him as this incredible
Speaker 3: chess piece defender who is kind of above average doing
Speaker 3: every assignment on defense. Like they had him in the tournament.
Speaker 3: Guard Marks, who was an All American point guard at
Speaker 3: the point of attack and just make his life miserable.
Speaker 3: You know, they had him guard produce point guard Braydon
Speaker 3: Smith throughout the season. They would have him like Chase
Speaker 3: Baylor Shireman, another potential first round pick this year, off
Speaker 3: of screens because you know, Creyton just ran Baylor off
Speaker 3: of screens constantly. They would have him guard like true
Speaker 3: off guards, like scoring guards and things like that, as
Speaker 3: opposed to winings. I think he can guard fours with
Speaker 3: how physical and strong he is. There's just a lot
Speaker 3: of versatility in what his role can be on defense,
Speaker 3: and I think that, particularly in San Antonio, it would
Speaker 3: be really valuable to have somebody like that next to
Speaker 3: Victor wen Binyama, next to Devin Vessel, particularly as well,
Speaker 3: because Vassell looked like a guy who's going to be
Speaker 3: a really good defender coming out of Florida State, and
Speaker 3: it just hasn't really happened at this point for him.
Speaker 3: In the NBA, I would love to get somebody like
Speaker 3: Steph Castle in there that can like just take on
Speaker 3: a lot of different assignments, and you know, hopefully the
Speaker 3: offensive game just continues to grow and develop.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna move to a little bit more of
Speaker 2: a rapid fire format here because as usual, Sam, we
Speaker 2: just have a tendency to go for a very long time.
Speaker 1: And I know, I said, it's.
Speaker 3: So funny you like you like complained. No, you didn't complain.
Speaker 3: You were like, thank you so much for coming and
Speaker 3: doing this. Thank you, Like I know, it's crazy busy.
Speaker 3: I'm just like Jason, I love doing this, Like this
Speaker 3: is great. These are like by some of my favorite
Speaker 3: conversations that I do is with you and like thinking
Speaker 3: about the game in different ways. It was just like,
Speaker 3: very funny.
Speaker 2: Complaining in our profession is always relative. That's always something
Speaker 2: we have to keep in mind. But I want to
Speaker 2: I want to get to a bunch of additional players,
Speaker 2: and I want to get to Brownie in the next
Speaker 2: sixteen minutes.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go a little bit more.
Speaker 2: Rapid fire here really quickly, really quickly. If if you
Speaker 2: when you talk to people from San Antonio, when you
Speaker 2: do some digging on that front, what would be their
Speaker 2: dream outcome for getting four and eight?
Speaker 3: Who is I don't not come there, So I think
Speaker 3: that their dream outcome would be finding a way to
Speaker 3: get risa schet and castle. If they could find a
Speaker 3: way to move up and get like you know, four
Speaker 3: and five or three and four in some way. Uh,
Speaker 3: if they could figure out a way to do that,
Speaker 3: I think they'd be really happy on draft night. I
Speaker 3: think it'll be a little bit difficult, but that would
Speaker 3: be my guess in terms of how they foresee a win,
Speaker 3: especially if Risu sche goes one, I think it'd be
Speaker 3: a little bit difficult.
Speaker 1: To do that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed Stefan Castle Like he just no matter
Speaker 2: how big the game was, no matter how big the
Speaker 2: situation was, he just forgot sped up. He just was
Speaker 2: always kind of playing at his own pace. He was
Speaker 2: fun to watch. Donovan Klingon I like a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff with him. I love how he functions in that
Speaker 2: Yukon offense, just as like a really good You talked
Speaker 2: a lot about his screening in the uh in the
Speaker 2: in the Draft guy that you did. But I also
Speaker 2: think he has got a really good instinct for when
Speaker 2: to slip like he always can. He always just kind
Speaker 2: of has his eye on when his defenders showing, and
Speaker 2: as soon as his defender decides the show, he just
Speaker 2: doesn't even bother seting the screen anymore, just gets out
Speaker 2: of there and then like he just he's got good hands.
Speaker 2: He finishes most most of his catches around the basket.
Speaker 2: The one thing that freaks me out with him is
Speaker 2: I worry about him being a little bit matchup dependent
Speaker 2: because I don't think he's quick footed enough to guard
Speaker 2: in space. What's your take on, Dovin klingon No.
Speaker 3: I agree with all of that. I think he's like
Speaker 3: pure drop coverage is a big What I will say
Speaker 3: is generally, you know, in terms of the scouting, I
Speaker 3: think you really nailed what he is. It's not a
Speaker 3: complicated evaluation. He's just an elite level drop coverage big man,
Speaker 3: an elite level rim protector, great finisher at the basket.
Speaker 3: The thing I will throw on is he's a really
Speaker 3: good high post passer and like passer in terms of
Speaker 3: he can run dribble handoffs, deny drible handoff, find a
Speaker 3: cutter like a super super high level. He manipulates defenders
Speaker 3: already really good at that. But if he gets down
Speaker 3: to like the three to six range on draft night,
Speaker 3: there are a bunch of teams, So like the three
Speaker 3: six range, the Rockets have Shengun, the Hornets have Mark Williams,
Speaker 3: the Pistons have Jalen Duran and then four is San Antonio.
Speaker 3: They Victor Weeb Nyama, Right, So like those teams don't
Speaker 3: need a center in theory, right, there are a number
Speaker 3: of teams in the like seven to twelve range, or
Speaker 3: so let's call it seven to eleven range. I throw
Speaker 3: Oklahoma City and I guess that have like a real
Speaker 3: degree of interest in him, and that's kind of the
Speaker 3: one that I'm targeting, Like I if I'm Memphis in particular, right,
Speaker 3: Like that's my favorite fit in this draft would be
Speaker 3: Memphis ending up on draft night with Donovan Klingon. Maybe
Speaker 3: if he falls to five, they trade a future first
Speaker 3: round pick and number nine to move up to number
Speaker 3: five to assure themselves Donovan Klingen, who would be this
Speaker 3: incredible fit within their scheme setting screens for John Morant
Speaker 3: being the drop coverage defender to let Jaron Rome on
Speaker 3: the backside defensively. But if Donovan Klingon gets into that
Speaker 3: three to six range, look for somebody to move up
Speaker 3: to get him. In my opinion, because if you hear
Speaker 3: as I hear things from teams, it seems like there's
Speaker 3: a lot of interest in him in that like seven
Speaker 3: to twelve range, and I think somebody will try and
Speaker 3: spike up to grab him.
Speaker 1: That's super interesting.
Speaker 2: So you're saying these front offices basically have like a
Speaker 2: bunch of a bunch of game plans that are contingent
Speaker 2: on what's on, who's going where. So if this guy slips,
Speaker 2: then we're prepared to draw trade up if in the
Speaker 2: event that that happens. I really like the clinging fit
Speaker 2: with Memphis as well. I think they're rangy enough around him.
Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think people realize good yet
Speaker 2: how good GGI Jackson is too, and just slott it.
Speaker 2: If they get a legit center and it's Morant Baye
Speaker 2: Jackson and then Jaron Jackson and then a legit center
Speaker 2: like that, I think they're going to be right back
Speaker 2: in the mix at the top of the conference next year,
Speaker 2: especially as a regular season team with all their youthful exuberance.
Speaker 3: They have Marcus Smart too, Like that's the other thing.
Speaker 3: They have Mark Smart right, like gg Jackson, Like I
Speaker 3: want to see where it goes with GG Jackson, Like
Speaker 3: I'm really interested in Like if I was redrafting last year,
Speaker 3: I think I would have gig like in the top
Speaker 3: seven of that class, like point blank. But you know
Speaker 3: next year, like Marcus is going to be the guy
Speaker 3: that's like really valuable for them, and like we'll see
Speaker 3: what GG looks like. It's a little where I'm at.
Speaker 2: Well, and and then also there's that they would inevitably
Speaker 2: have to have a small ball look anyway where you
Speaker 2: can imagine GG being the four of next to Jaron Jackson. Now,
Speaker 2: you and I are admittedly biased on the Williams family.
Speaker 2: I think I think you and I might be the
Speaker 2: two biggest Jalen Williams fans in the world. Although I
Speaker 2: did almost get in trouble with Sam the other day
Speaker 2: on the phone because I told him that I thought
Speaker 2: that Jalen Williams has potential to be better than Shay
Speaker 2: and and Sam had to quickly put him put me
Speaker 2: in my place.
Speaker 3: But Cody would I don't even I don't even know
Speaker 3: that I did that. I was just like, oh wow,
Speaker 3: like I was, I was taken aback.
Speaker 2: But I love take so obviously, you know, it's kind
Speaker 2: of funny. I there's a little bit of Jalen in
Speaker 2: Cody's game, mainly the pull up jump shot footwork looks
Speaker 2: similar in the sense that they both look really good
Speaker 2: going left. They have that same right left footwork where
Speaker 2: they both kind of lean back a little bit. But
Speaker 2: Cody just has this like a totally different look to
Speaker 2: him because he's like lanky and in a little bit
Speaker 2: a little bit taller, a little bit skinnier. Tell us
Speaker 2: a little bit about Cody Williams and where you want
Speaker 2: him to end up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he really is kind of like a
Speaker 3: you know, when Jalen was that young, Jalen was still pretty,
Speaker 3: he was shorter actually, like when he committed to Santa
Speaker 3: Clara as a senior, he was I want to say,
Speaker 3: like six foot three or so, like honestly, it might
Speaker 3: have been like six foot two and then like grew
Speaker 3: before he got to Santa Clara and then kept growing
Speaker 3: all the way up to like six four and a half.
Speaker 3: I think he is without choose now, but has that
Speaker 3: enormous seven foot two wings fan. Cody is six '
Speaker 3: seven seven foot one on wings band, so big and long,
Speaker 3: just very skinny and is continuing to grow into his frame.
Speaker 3: I think that the footwork is a driver is where
Speaker 3: I see the similarities. I think that a lot of
Speaker 3: that looks quite similar. I'm glad you brought up the
Speaker 3: pull up game, because you know Cody's pull up game
Speaker 3: is definitely still developing. I would say you didn't take
Speaker 3: a ton of pull up jumpers in high school where
Speaker 3: he went to. I think Perry down in your neck
Speaker 3: of the woods in Arizona. You know, just a really
Speaker 3: really good upside bet. I think is a wing that
Speaker 3: could be like a playmaker. I think he passes really well.
Speaker 3: I would like to see him be like a little
Speaker 3: bit more disruptive defensively, but I think he can get
Speaker 3: there just with his lengthen with his physical tools. So
Speaker 3: I look at what Cody Williams has and I ended
Speaker 3: up with him six on my board. You mentioned the
Speaker 3: Britischet comparison earlier in the show. I have them literally
Speaker 3: five and six, So I don't see an enormous difference
Speaker 3: between the two of those players. They're different types, but
Speaker 3: I quite like j Cody Williams as well.
Speaker 2: That's I think a good indicator of this draft right
Speaker 2: there is Rische might end up going number one, and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Cody's not a perfect corollary. They played a different style,
Speaker 2: but there are two lanky wings right that you like.
Speaker 2: I think Obviously, Versasche is a much better shooter at
Speaker 2: this point, but Cody shot well in catch and shoot situations.
Speaker 2: It seemed like when I was looking into it today,
Speaker 2: all right, we have three more quick players that we're
Speaker 2: going to get through.
Speaker 1: First.
Speaker 2: Probably the guy that I had the most fun watching today,
Speaker 2: Devin Carter out of Providence. I really like thought it
Speaker 2: was fascinating. He was seeing really aggressive coverages, which I'm
Speaker 2: assuming had a lot to do with the roster that
Speaker 2: he was playing with, but like it seemed like towards
Speaker 2: the tail end of the season his playmaking was improving
Speaker 2: after struggling with it a little bit to start the year.
Speaker 2: But freaky athletic, really good score. Just I thought he
Speaker 2: I thought his motor really impressed me. Just in general.
Speaker 2: He just was like he just seemed like a Foxhole
Speaker 2: type of dude, Like a guard that I'd love to
Speaker 2: have competing alongside me. So tell us about Dev Carter
Speaker 2: and where you hope to see him end up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of a like, you know, very different players,
Speaker 3: but like a Derek White like kind of starter kit
Speaker 3: to me. You know, Devin I think is the best
Speaker 3: athlete in the class. Just kind of you know, I
Speaker 3: keep saying point blank, but point blank, he is a
Speaker 3: forty inch vertical leap guy. He is. You know, any
Speaker 3: combine tests you put him through, he's gonna win. I
Speaker 3: think he literally won almost all of the combine test thing.
Speaker 3: And he's not one of those guys where it's not functional.
Speaker 3: It shows up all over his tape, like he blocks
Speaker 3: one shot per game. He gets into passing lanes and
Speaker 3: you know, creates transition opportunities. He had like thirty half
Speaker 3: court dunks or something this year at six foot like
Speaker 3: a six foot nine wingspan. He is a serious, serious leaper.
Speaker 3: And then the big thing is like what is the handle?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: It's a lot of straight line stuff, a lot of
Speaker 3: like trying to change pace. How he started to account
Speaker 3: for that this year was he just started moving back
Speaker 3: and taking deeper three right if teams were gonna collapse
Speaker 3: down on him whenever he shot, Okay, I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: take twenty seven foot threes, right. That's the big question
Speaker 3: with Devin. You know, his first two years in college
Speaker 3: one at South Carolina, one at Providence, which is where
Speaker 3: he ended up this year as well. I made like
Speaker 3: twenty seven percent from three this year got way better
Speaker 3: way up to the volume. Was it like thirty eight
Speaker 3: percent or so from three on seven? Three point attempts
Speaker 3: per game, a lot of pull up shots, a lot
Speaker 3: of contested shots. The thing I love about Devin though,
Speaker 3: is like I've seen him work out, Like I've talked
Speaker 3: to people about him everything that you see on tape.
Speaker 3: In terms of why you love him being a fox
Speaker 3: hole guy, it's who he is off the court, like
Speaker 3: incredible work ethic, you know, great competitor, like all of
Speaker 3: the boxes get ticked there. I ended up with him
Speaker 3: at seven. I'm probably the highest person in the public
Speaker 3: sphere on him. I've talked to teams that are higher
Speaker 3: on that him than that honestly. So yeah, I love
Speaker 3: Devin Carter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of reminds me of the JJ
Speaker 2: Reddick convers Obviously it's different from a coach, but it's like,
Speaker 2: give me a super competitive dude who loves basketball and
Speaker 2: has the natural talent, like the understanding of the game.
Speaker 2: I just feel like they're going to find a way
Speaker 2: to figure it out. That's the kind of the way
Speaker 2: I feel with Devin Carter. It's like super competitive, loves
Speaker 2: the game, relentless worker. Any elite athletic tools like that
Speaker 2: just automatically, to me, makes you a super interesting player
Speaker 2: and a guy that I'd be willing to take a
Speaker 2: bet on. All right, two more quick ones. Dalton Connect
Speaker 2: out of Tennessee. You and I talked a lot about
Speaker 2: him during the tournament this year.
Speaker 1: The Jeco Brethren, the Jewco Brethren.
Speaker 2: I know, Yeah, this is Dalton's like the much much
Speaker 2: better version of me. He's like what I would have
Speaker 2: been like if I was way better at basketball, similar
Speaker 2: kind of to height, like a six y five and
Speaker 2: a half without shoes on six ten wingspan kind of
Speaker 2: a score first mentality. Really showed some high level shot
Speaker 2: making in the NCAA tournament. What do you kind of
Speaker 2: see him looking like as an NBA player? Where do
Speaker 2: you like to see him end up?
Speaker 3: Plug and play shooter? For sure, really needs to improve
Speaker 3: on defense in terms of hitting like top ten upside.
Speaker 3: I would like to see him land in a scheme
Speaker 3: where like he'll run off of all that like floppy
Speaker 3: stuff that Tennessee would run him off of, run him
Speaker 3: off of all sort of like flares and try to
Speaker 3: get him shots early in offense. To me, that's where
Speaker 3: he'll hit like a real ceiling. But you know, regardless
Speaker 3: of where he goes, he's gonna knock down shots and
Speaker 3: he's gonna be valuable.
Speaker 2: I think, hmm, So we absolutely have to per per
Speaker 2: our agreement as NBA media members discuss Brownie James, and
Speaker 2: I obviously have not watched him nearly as closely as
Speaker 2: you have. So why don't you just give us just
Speaker 2: your pure, unadulterated, unbiased perspective on what Bronnie James looks.
Speaker 2: Because important little disclaimer here, like I don't give a
Speaker 2: shit about the nepotism angle. Like he's gonna get his opportunity.
Speaker 2: He's gonna get several years to figure out whether or
Speaker 2: not he's an NBA player, So like everyone just needs
Speaker 2: to accept that that's the reality.
Speaker 1: He's gonna get his shot. The question is if he gets.
Speaker 2: Two three years in an NBA organization to try to
Speaker 2: figure this out, what NBA level tools does he have
Speaker 2: and is there a realistic shot for him to round
Speaker 2: out into an NBA player eventually.
Speaker 3: So the idea behind Brownie James is like a three
Speaker 3: and T guard, not like a three and D wing.
Speaker 3: He's like six foot one and a half, right, So
Speaker 3: he is a guard. The names that will come up
Speaker 3: are Gary Harris and Avery Bradley, Like those are the
Speaker 3: two most popular names I've heard from teams and if
Speaker 3: they like him or like anybody, that's like trying to
Speaker 3: figure out a point of comparison. I don't think people
Speaker 3: quite understand how good those guys were in high school
Speaker 3: and college. Both of those guys were five star recruits
Speaker 3: coming out of high school. Avery Bradley a top five
Speaker 3: kid in his class. Gary Harris was like, you know,
Speaker 3: top twenty kid in his class. Gary Harris eventually went
Speaker 3: on I think he won Big Ten Player of the Year.
Speaker 3: If he didn't win Big Ten Player of the Year,
Speaker 3: he was first team All Big Ten. Was like an
Speaker 3: outstanding outstanding player over multiple years at Michigan State. Top
Speaker 3: twenty pick, was fantastic, you know, became this awesome three
Speaker 3: in d guard, like you know, could guard even up
Speaker 3: to the three eventually. Avery Bradley was a guy that
Speaker 3: averaged like eleven three and three in his freshman year
Speaker 3: at Texas or maybe like eleven five and three and
Speaker 3: was by the end of his year at Texas one
Speaker 3: of like the great perimeter defenders in college basketball. Like
Speaker 3: he was a monster at the point of attack, which
Speaker 3: is why he ended up going in the top twenty.
Speaker 3: Bronnie was I thought a good defender this year for
Speaker 3: a freshman. I didn't feel like he was particularly crazily
Speaker 3: disruptive anywhere. I would say defense was his best attube
Speaker 3: this season as a basketball player. And we really wouldn't
Speaker 3: be having this conversation if it wasn't for Lebron being involved.
Speaker 3: I kind of have gone back, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna cut you off really quickly here, Just how much
Speaker 2: do you think let me play Devil's Advocate surgery before
Speaker 2: the season. Does that imp Doesn't that have a substantial
Speaker 2: impact on what his USC film slash statistical production would
Speaker 2: have looked like?
Speaker 3: I think it has an impact for sure. My issue
Speaker 3: with Bronni has kind of always been though that I've
Speaker 3: never seen him as like a half court shot creator
Speaker 3: at all. I've always seen him he's pretty good in transition.
Speaker 3: I think he makes like pretty solid passing reads. I
Speaker 3: think he's smart and like understands the game and in
Speaker 3: an intuitive level in a way you would expect from
Speaker 3: Lebron's child, right, just the genetics that kind of filter
Speaker 3: down whatever it is, Like I think he sees the
Speaker 3: game in the open court in a really positive way.
Speaker 3: It's just really hard for me to envision a player
Speaker 3: that averaged, you know, under five points per game as
Speaker 3: a freshman at six foot one being a draft prospect,
Speaker 3: Like I've kind of gone back through, but like back
Speaker 3: to like two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 3: like something like that. I believe Bronnie James would be
Speaker 3: the first player drafted that is like under six foot
Speaker 3: two and averaged under five points per game as a
Speaker 3: one and done player. It's just an extremely uncommon degree
Speaker 3: of production and size to be entering the NBA draft. Now,
Speaker 3: you and I just talked about how much we love
Speaker 3: Devin Carter, and like we truly like adore that guy's game.
Speaker 3: I think that there are outcomes where if Bronnie had
Speaker 3: stayed in college for a couple of years, we could
Speaker 3: have been looking at Bronnie as a similar player to
Speaker 3: Devin Carter. Because Devin Carter started South Carolina averaged like
Speaker 3: seven points per game, eight points per game whatever. First year,
Speaker 3: moved up to Providence average fourteen points a game, you know,
Speaker 3: and six rebounds or so, and then this year was
Speaker 3: you know, twenty points eight rebounds for as this like
Speaker 3: was one of the best players in the country. You
Speaker 3: could have convinced me of that pathway. But where I'm
Speaker 3: worried now about Bronnie is I don't think he can
Speaker 3: play point guard in the G League unless they force it,
Speaker 3: like if they might force the issue, Like let's just
Speaker 3: be honest about it. So I'm worried about him getting reps,
Speaker 3: being able to develop his ball handling and develop his
Speaker 3: half court feel as a playmaker in the way that
Speaker 3: would allow him to get the most out of his
Speaker 3: game long term. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I
Speaker 3: wish the best for the kid, obviously, Like the kid
Speaker 3: has gone through a crazy number of difficult situations between
Speaker 3: the heart condition, the pressure that's on him as Lebron
Speaker 3: James's kid, the fact that he seemingly is as well
Speaker 3: adjusted as he is, and like everybody will kind of
Speaker 3: tell you he is quite well adjusted. And you know,
Speaker 3: I've been in like media scrums with him before. He
Speaker 3: seems like a really really nice dude and like a again,
Speaker 3: like a mature beyond his years in some way like teenager,
Speaker 3: but like at some level, like the game is the game, right,
Speaker 3: and you got to be able to prove it. Like
Speaker 3: everyone talks about like Tony Allen, Right, Tony Allen's you
Speaker 3: know more our age ish, Right, do you remember how
Speaker 3: good Tony Allen was at Oklahoma State, Jason, Oh my god,
Speaker 3: Tony Tony Allen won the Big Twelve Player of the Year,
Speaker 3: He won the Big Twelve Tournament MVP. He led Oklahoma
Speaker 3: State to a thirty one and four record and led
Speaker 3: them to the Final four. And that guy like Boston
Speaker 3: like tried to make him point guard for a minute
Speaker 3: or whatever, but he eventually settled in as like one
Speaker 3: of the great defensive players in the league. And that's
Speaker 3: the vision that people have for Brownie. And there's just
Speaker 3: like no to me, Like, I just don't know what
Speaker 3: the backing for that is based on what we've seen
Speaker 3: so far. Is maybe the fairest way to put it,
Speaker 3: but maybe he can get there.
Speaker 1: Do you think quickly?
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think this was a strategic
Speaker 2: move on the family and Clutch Sports part to capitalize
Speaker 2: on more of the intrigue around him knowing because like,
Speaker 2: here's the thing, I would imagine he'd actually make more
Speaker 2: money going back to USC in nil.
Speaker 1: Deals so or at least close.
Speaker 2: So, like, do you think they're actually trying to avoid
Speaker 2: him putting more college tape out there that kind of
Speaker 2: dampens or kind of like minimizes some of the intrigues
Speaker 2: around his potential.
Speaker 1: Nay.
Speaker 3: I think that everything about this has been strategic from
Speaker 3: Clutch like Rich I've never heard an agent be more
Speaker 3: public about the way he's handling a prospect and Rich
Speaker 3: Paul has been with at this point, and to me,
Speaker 3: all of that is very strategic. Coming out and saying
Speaker 3: that he won't take a two way is trying to
Speaker 3: drive him down the board at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: because if you're you're trying to stop other teams from
Speaker 3: taking him, you know, coming out and saying that he'll
Speaker 3: only work out certain places, that that's trying to drive
Speaker 3: him to a specific situation. So I think the whole
Speaker 3: thing has been trying to control the process, drive him
Speaker 3: to specific situations.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Let's be honest, Like it seems like the Lakers. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to sit here and say, like, for sure
Speaker 3: it's the Lakers, but the way Rich Paul is handling
Speaker 3: this process is exactly the way you would handle it
Speaker 3: if your goal is to get him to a specific
Speaker 3: destination without saying that that is one hundred percent the goal,
Speaker 3: and that I know that's one hundred percent the goal.
Speaker 3: Everything he has done has been acting like that is
Speaker 3: the goal, at least, let's say so like and I
Speaker 3: respect it, like I understand the goal. I understand everything
Speaker 3: about it in terms of like making more an il
Speaker 3: lesson nil if he had just stayed in school. The
Speaker 3: most popular college that I got for Brownie because he
Speaker 3: did enter the transfert transfer portal, so college's you know,
Speaker 3: kind of had a sense of what was going on
Speaker 3: the most popular name. I'm not saying he would have
Speaker 3: gone there. I'm just saying the most popular idea I
Speaker 3: got for Brownie James was for him to go to Dukane,
Speaker 3: which is where Drew Joyce just got the head coaching job.
Speaker 3: Drew Joyce played high school basketball with Lebron at Saint
Speaker 3: Vincent Saint Mary's his dad. You know, I believe Drew
Speaker 3: Joyce senior or the second, I can't remember, Drew coaching
Speaker 3: Ducaine now is the third or not was a coach
Speaker 3: at Saint Vincent Saint Mary, you know, for Lebron. And
Speaker 3: then Drew Joyce who just took the Duquane job, was
Speaker 3: the head coach, or was an assistant coach under Keith Danbrot,
Speaker 3: who was Lebron's head coach, also at St. Vincent Saint
Speaker 3: Mary's early in his career, so there were a lot
Speaker 3: of familial connections where if you're gonna send Brownie somewhere,
Speaker 3: it would be very comfortable, right. That's a place where
Speaker 3: you know that Bronnie will be treated well, where you
Speaker 3: know that he'll get every opportunity to succeed. And honestly,
Speaker 3: like in the A ten level, I think that'd be
Speaker 3: great for Bronnie to get a chance to like thrive
Speaker 3: and get a chance to play on the ball and
Speaker 3: showcase what he's capable of. But you know, ultimately they
Speaker 3: decided to go a different way, and I respect it.
Speaker 3: I just have concerns as to whether or not it
Speaker 3: was what was best for his development because the G
Speaker 3: League is a higher level of basketball.
Speaker 2: At the end of the game, it's gonna be very
Speaker 2: sink or swim for him for sure. Yeah, and again,
Speaker 2: my last take on it again is like I hate
Speaker 2: when people complain about the nepotism, because guess what, nepotism
Speaker 2: has existed in every single field for as long as
Speaker 2: I can possibly remember, not even the first time it's
Speaker 2: happened in the NBA, Like big who cares. He's going
Speaker 2: to benefit from it. He's going to get a lot
Speaker 2: of opportunity as a result of it. But guess what,
Speaker 2: no good coach is going to put him on an
Speaker 2: NBA floor in a meaningful basketball game if he doesn't
Speaker 2: earn his opportunity to be there. So like it at
Speaker 2: a certain point, like we talked, we opened the show
Speaker 2: with it, like this is the nature of the ruthlessness
Speaker 2: of professional sports. He might have his opportunity to grow
Speaker 2: and to learn on the fringes of the NBA, but like,
Speaker 2: no one's gonna just hand him a starting role on
Speaker 2: a legitimate NBA team. He's going to have to earn it.
Speaker 2: He's just going to get an opportunity by virtue of this.
Speaker 2: But that is all we have time for today, Sam,
Speaker 2: Can you please just tell everybody how to find your
Speaker 2: draft guide, how to find your other NBA draft content.
Speaker 2: I think it was. I can't even tell you how
Speaker 2: much it helped me today in my crash course on
Speaker 2: this NBA draft to just as a reference as I
Speaker 2: was going through film like it just was such an
Speaker 2: incredible product and I want you to shout it out
Speaker 2: to everybody's we can get as many people over there
Speaker 2: as possible.
Speaker 3: We have a testimonial. Go to the Athletic where the
Speaker 3: draft guide is up. It's like one hundred and thirty
Speaker 3: thousand words on the seventy five best prospects in this class,
Speaker 3: recorting to me, at least you'll be able to read
Speaker 3: about their backgrounds a little bit, get more of an
Speaker 3: understanding of where they come from, understand their strengths, their weaknesses,
Speaker 3: and kind of where I stand on them as prospects.
Speaker 3: Go to the Game Theory YouTube channel. I have interviewed
Speaker 3: like eight or nine or ten of these kids, where
Speaker 3: you'll be able to watch film of me breaking down
Speaker 3: film with them. Right today I released Donovan Klingen, Right,
Speaker 3: Donovan was super fun. He's like this awesome kid, really
Speaker 3: good personality. Tomorrow I'll release Tristan da Silva, who's like
Speaker 3: one of the most mature and like super high IQ
Speaker 3: basketball players I've gotten a chance to talk to as
Speaker 3: a player rising from college to the NBA. So go
Speaker 3: to the Game Theory Podcast with Sam Senior YouTube channel.
Speaker 3: You'll see all that, and look, I'll be going live
Speaker 3: for the draft, so I'm excited to kind of run
Speaker 3: through it and talk through it all with you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you're sick of me telling you thank you,
Speaker 2: but thank you again for making the time to do
Speaker 2: this for us today.
Speaker 3: That we might as well record it, Jason, we might
Speaker 3: as well record it right because we're gonna do it
Speaker 3: anyway over the phone.
Speaker 1: So exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Product out there in the content space.
Speaker 2: Right exactly, might as well might as well have it
Speaker 2: help our jobs a little bit, all right, guys, That
Speaker 2: is all we have for today. Tomorrow I am recording
Speaker 2: a video on the five Biggest Takeaways from this postseason,
Speaker 2: which is also going to feature some of the things
Speaker 2: that Sam and I have talked about over the course
Speaker 2: of the last few weeks. And then obviously we'll be
Speaker 2: reacting to the draft on Thursday morning. As always, I
Speaker 2: sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting the show and we'll
Speaker 2: see you tomorrow.
Speaker 4: The volume