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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, have you heard of the Zenos paradox? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Is that the one where you can't get to where

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Speaker 1: because you keep going half the distance and then half

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Speaker 1: that distance and half that distance. Yeah. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like this thought experiment where you say, all right, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to get home, so I'm gonna get to half

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Speaker 1: of the distance to my home, and then you stop

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Speaker 1: and you say, all right, now I'm gonna get half

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Speaker 1: of the distance to my home. And so you go

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Speaker 1: another half of that and you say, now I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go half of the distance to my home, and

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Speaker 1: you do that half, and so the question is will

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Speaker 1: you ever get home? I mean, it sounds like you

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Speaker 1: would always get there because you're always going half of

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Speaker 1: what's left, but you might never get there, right, And

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Speaker 1: it raises an interesting question, right, because if you can

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Speaker 1: cut a mile and a half and then cut that

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Speaker 1: in a half to a quarter mile, and cut that

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Speaker 1: in half to an eighth of a mile, can you

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Speaker 1: keep cutting it to infinitely small distances? Like are those

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Speaker 1: distances even meaningful on a physics point of view? Or

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Speaker 1: is there a shortest possible distance in the universe? Afterwards,

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Speaker 1: Zeno has to actually take that step right, So physics

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Speaker 1: could be like Zeno's paradox, more like Zeno's paradk Not,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Zino's paradox unraveled. I am and I'm Daniel,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe,

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Speaker 1: where we take the universe, cut it in half, and

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Speaker 1: then cut it in half again, and cut it in

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Speaker 1: half again and again until it's small enough for everybody

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Speaker 1: to understand and happily digest. This is Daniel Jorges podcast paradox.

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Speaker 1: And unlike that paradox, this will actually end at some

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Speaker 1: point in about thirty thirty five minutes, that's right. Not

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Speaker 1: if you listen to half the podcast and then half

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Speaker 1: was left, and then half of what's left right, infinitely

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Speaker 1: slicing the podcast, you can enjoy it forever. Yeah, at

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Speaker 1: some point you'll be like, but that's right, we'll be

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Speaker 1: listening to one unit of laughter. But that's sort of

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Speaker 1: the question we want to talk about today. Can you

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Speaker 1: slice up space into smaller and smaller pieces? Can you

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Speaker 1: divide it into short and short distances? Or is space

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Speaker 1: pixelated like a video game? That's right? Or your latest iPhone.

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Speaker 1: You look around you and it seems like the universe

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Speaker 1: is continuous and smooth, right, But it might be that

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Speaker 1: the universe is actually pixelated. That you can be here,

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Speaker 1: or then Jason pixelby, you can't be in between, that

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Speaker 1: there's the shortest possible distance to the universe. So not

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Speaker 1: the stuff is pixelated, but the actual like the universe itself,

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Speaker 1: the space in it is like a video game. It's pixelated.

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Speaker 1: It's not continuous and infinite resolution exactly. And it's a

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Speaker 1: perfect analogy to the stuff. Right. In particle physics, we

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Speaker 1: love to take things apart. We say your body is

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Speaker 1: made of molecules, and those molecules are made of atoms,

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Speaker 1: and those atoms are made of smaller particles, and those

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Speaker 1: little particles get down to corks and leptons. We're looking

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Speaker 1: for the tiniest particle, the base particle out of which

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Speaker 1: everything is built. But in a completely parallel track, we

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Speaker 1: can ask the same questions about space. Is a mile

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Speaker 1: built out of half miles, which just built out of

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Speaker 1: quarter miles, which eventually is built out of the smallest unit,

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Speaker 1: or can you infinitely divide it? So this is a

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Speaker 1: mind blowing question, And so we were curious what you

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Speaker 1: thought the answer was, do you think the universe is pixelated? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So I went around. I asked a random selection of

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Speaker 1: UC Irvine undergraduates who were not put off by a

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Speaker 1: weird physics professor holding a mic in their face, and

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Speaker 1: ask them this question, do you think the universe is pixelated?

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Speaker 1: Here's what they had to say. This quantized basically as

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Speaker 1: the atoms cannot be. I mean, of course they're made

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Speaker 1: by subatomic particles. But I think after that, like it

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Speaker 1: can be continuous. I think this spread to do it.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like I can ask him to like,

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Speaker 1: you reach smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller,

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Speaker 1: but you never get to like a finite like this

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Speaker 1: is the smallest thing. Um. I think it would probably

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Speaker 1: get smaller and smaller forever. I really don't know about this.

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Speaker 1: This is a tough lue. It's a topic. What's your

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Speaker 1: best guess? What do you think the job cuts say? Really?

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Speaker 1: You know this one is really beyond my understanding of

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Speaker 1: this whole ward right now? Yeah, all right to People

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Speaker 1: were kind of skeptical about this. There's a whole spectrum

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Speaker 1: of answers. I mean some people are like, no, you

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Speaker 1: can chop things down infinitely far. Other people like no,

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics says everything is quantized and therefore there must

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Speaker 1: be pixels. And other people are like, wow, I have

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Speaker 1: no idea, what are you talking about? And I totally

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Speaker 1: regret agreeing to answer your questions. It's like, I've never

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Speaker 1: heard these two words at the same time, universe and pixels.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, and it is a weird question,

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Speaker 1: you know. But the pixels is a perfect analogy because,

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Speaker 1: like if you have a modern iPhone and you look

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Speaker 1: at the screen, it seems like the pictures are fluid,

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Speaker 1: they're smooth, or you can't see the pixels because they

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Speaker 1: have this retin a display. It gives the illusion that

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Speaker 1: it's completely smooth. But it's kind of interesting because if

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Speaker 1: you look at an old phone, like just from five

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Speaker 1: to ten years ago, it looks horribly pixelated, that's right.

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Speaker 1: It looks crunchy and chunky, and you're you you think,

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Speaker 1: how could I ever have seen this and thought that

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Speaker 1: this was anything of quality? That's right. And you know,

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Speaker 1: even um old fashioned photographs, the ones that are analoged,

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Speaker 1: not digital, ones that use chemistry, those in effect have

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Speaker 1: pixels as well. They're just so small that you can't

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Speaker 1: see them, because you know, the development process is a

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Speaker 1: chemical process and so it's based on you know, molecules

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Speaker 1: and drops of fluid and whatever. It's just the pixels

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Speaker 1: are so small. So if the pixels are small enough

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Speaker 1: that you can't see them, it gives you the illusion

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Speaker 1: that it's perfectly continuous and that you could, you know,

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Speaker 1: zoom in forever and see more and more details, you know,

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Speaker 1: like on that on those cop shows, whether they like

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Speaker 1: enhance the image and it can just like zoom in

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Speaker 1: forever and read the time on somebody's watch or something

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Speaker 1: right right, or get like a face match. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: in a real picture, there's a limit to the information

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Speaker 1: that's been captured. And if you look from far away,

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Speaker 1: it looks like you could zoom in forever. But at

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Speaker 1: some point, as you start zooming in, you notice the pixels.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the question we were wondering about today, like, sure,

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Speaker 1: space seems continuous around us, but is it possible that

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Speaker 1: if we zoomed in far enough, the pixels could appear

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Speaker 1: at some point? Yeah, So that's kind of related to

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Speaker 1: the question of space itself, Like we know stuff is

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Speaker 1: made that a little bit, But is space itself also

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Speaker 1: pixelated like an iPhone screen or an old photograph. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this question is newly fascinating because we're only recently

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Speaker 1: learning what space is, right, Like the question of is

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Speaker 1: space pixelated is a reasonable question in parallel to is

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Speaker 1: matter quantized and made out of the smallest particles, because

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Speaker 1: we've recently realized that space really is thing. Also, it's

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Speaker 1: not just like emptiness. Those of you are out there

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Speaker 1: saying this is silly. Space is nothing and so of

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Speaker 1: course you could be anywhere in it and you can

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Speaker 1: divide it infinitely. We've recently realized this space is not nothing.

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Speaker 1: Before we thought it was nothing, just the absence of anything.

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Speaker 1: But actually it's not right. It's almost like a medium,

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Speaker 1: or like what the ocean is to fish. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: it's a thing. It has dynamical properties. Right. We know

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Speaker 1: that it's not nothing because you can do things that

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Speaker 1: nothing can't do. Right. For example, space can expand that's

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Speaker 1: what dark energy is. And for those of you whose

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Speaker 1: minds were just blown about the meaning of the phrase

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Speaker 1: space can expand, go off and listen to our dark

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Speaker 1: energy episode where we talk all about that and space

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Speaker 1: can wiggle, right, like things in space can expand and

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Speaker 1: contract with these wiggles as gravitational waves passed through them.

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Speaker 1: And you know, those of you interested in that, go

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Speaker 1: off and listen to our gravitational waves episode. And we

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Speaker 1: also know that space can bend, right, that's what general

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Speaker 1: relativity tells us, and tells us that gravity is not

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Speaker 1: a force, but in that it's a bending of space.

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Speaker 1: So space definitely is a thing. It has properties, and

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Speaker 1: we've only just recently discovered that it's a thing and

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Speaker 1: begun to investigate it. And so it's a very reasonable

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Speaker 1: question to ask, is space pixelated like we think matter

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Speaker 1: might be, Like what is it made out of it?

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Speaker 1: Or what's it like? Really? You know, it's not nothing,

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Speaker 1: So if it's something, it's like space is some famous celebrity,

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Speaker 1: you know, right, what space like? You know on the

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Speaker 1: weekend out? Is it egotistical? It seems egotistical, you know,

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Speaker 1: it seems so into itself. What spaces favorite color? Black? Black?

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Speaker 1: Space color? That one? I think we know that's a

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Speaker 1: settled question in science. No, I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: think about this question, like what is the smallest unit

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Speaker 1: of space? Right? What is space built out of? Um?

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Speaker 1: And I think the analogy to you know, understanding what

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Speaker 1: matter is built out of? Works? They're like, is space

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Speaker 1: built out of the little bits? Right? These pixels? And

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Speaker 1: then the next question if you discover space is built

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Speaker 1: that it pixels is what are those pixels made out of?

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Speaker 1: It could be that those pixels are made out of

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Speaker 1: something smaller and deeper that's nothing like space, So that

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Speaker 1: space itself is an emergent phenomenon, not a fundamental thing

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Speaker 1: in our universe. That's something that arises, you know, like

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Speaker 1: wetness or economics, you know, so not something that's built

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Speaker 1: in at the very beginning of the universe, but something

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Speaker 1: that comes out of how things interact. Well, let's take

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Speaker 1: this approach. So let's assume that space is pixel ated. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what is the space pixel mean or feel like or

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Speaker 1: look like? Or what would it do to things? Yeah? Well,

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Speaker 1: what would it would mean is that you can't be

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Speaker 1: just anywhere you want in space, you know, just like

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Speaker 1: Zeno the beginning of this episode. It would mean that

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Speaker 1: at some point, if you're small enough or you can

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Speaker 1: zoom down enough, it would mean that you have to

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Speaker 1: make a choice. Are you at location end or location

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Speaker 1: N plus one? Right? It would mean the space is

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Speaker 1: discrete the way integers are, instead of being continuous the

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Speaker 1: way real numbers are. Right, there's an infant the number

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Speaker 1: of numbers. For example, between one and two, there's one,

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Speaker 1: one point five, one point two, seven, eight four, and

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Speaker 1: you can always squeeze more numbers in there. It's an

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Speaker 1: infinite amount of numbers between one and two if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about real numbers, a continuous line of numbers. But

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Speaker 1: for integers, like there's just one and there's two, there's

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Speaker 1: no more integers in between. Space could be like that

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Speaker 1: where you're like, I'm at this spot, and if I

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Speaker 1: want to take a step, there's the shortest distance I

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Speaker 1: can step, and so you have to go to two.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like if you were on your iPhone

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Speaker 1: you were animating one pixel dot black dot on a

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Speaker 1: white background. This dot can't just be anywhere on the screen.

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Speaker 1: It has to move from one box to the next box.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It can't like cross over the boundary. You

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Speaker 1: can't be halfway between one pixel and another because then

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Speaker 1: each pixel would have to be half white and half black,

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Speaker 1: which they can't be. Right at pixel is the basic

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Speaker 1: unity either on or it's off, So like, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the iPhone from a distance, this dot would

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Speaker 1: look like it's moving smoothly across the screen, but really

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Speaker 1: it's taking a little jumps between squares, right, Like it's

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Speaker 1: in square ones at this moment, and then it's suddenly

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Speaker 1: in the next ware, and then suddenly it's in the

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Speaker 1: next player. You're saying that maybe, like I'm not really

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Speaker 1: moving continuously through space. Maybe I'm just kind of like

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Speaker 1: jumping from one box to the next exactly. And the

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Speaker 1: illusion of smoothness, the way you feel of it that

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Speaker 1: you are moving smoothly, is your brain stitching that together.

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Speaker 1: And it's easy to do because the pixels, if they exist,

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Speaker 1: would be super duper tiny. But they only have to

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Speaker 1: be smaller than we can notice. You know. For example,

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Speaker 1: if you slow down a movie, it's nothing but a

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Speaker 1: bunch of still images, right, and if you watch them

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Speaker 1: fast enough the key is faster than your eye can

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Speaker 1: register the differences, then it appears to be an infinitely

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Speaker 1: smooth sequence. It seems like you're watching something in real life.

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Speaker 1: Slow down of course, and you can see, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: just a bunch of still images. In the same way

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Speaker 1: space might be discreete We just haven't noticed, but that

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Speaker 1: if you get small enough, you realize that these nodes.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like you can't get off halfway between

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Speaker 1: subway stations, right, might be the space is like that

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Speaker 1: that every location in spaces like a subway stop. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to get off the train halfway between pasions

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Speaker 1: and get stuck in the tunnel. Right. You can't write

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Speaker 1: the universe forbids it Right, But if you're the pixel

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Speaker 1: like in the in the screen, the pixel isn't really moving.

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Speaker 1: You just turn it off in one square and you

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Speaker 1: turn it on them the next square, so it sort

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Speaker 1: of disappears and it appears. Yes, are you gonna ask

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Speaker 1: if that's really like teleportation? Yeah? Right, Like does that

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Speaker 1: mean as I'm moving through space, I'm actually like disappearing

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Speaker 1: here and appearing in the next spot. Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: it does, you know? I guess it means that you

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Speaker 1: zapp from one spot to the other without going in

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Speaker 1: between them, right, And so that really is a kind

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Speaker 1: of teleportation. I hadn't thought of that before. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of awesome. Um. In the same way, like if time

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Speaker 1: is quantized, then you know you're sort of slicing your

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Speaker 1: way through time. In the same way. That's fascinating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we're if space is pixelated, that we're all teleporting

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Speaker 1: right now, all the time, only you move, only if

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Speaker 1: you moved. Oh my god, we just invented teleportation right

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Speaker 1: here live on the podcast. Amazing. Get the legal team

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Speaker 1: on the patent please, will you? And there goes your

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Speaker 1: physics professorship right out the door right there. That's right. Boom,

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Speaker 1: I'm officially a crackpot. Well, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: before we go on. Okay, so that's what it means

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Speaker 1: for the universe to be pixelated, that we're all just

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Speaker 1: kind of trapped in an iPhone screen. Then we can't

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Speaker 1: really move anywhere. We have to move within these boxes.

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Speaker 1: That's right. But if it is, it's a really fancy,

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Speaker 1: super modern iPhone because the pixels would be super duper tiny, right,

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Speaker 1: it has an awesome graphics processor. What would you call

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Speaker 1: it the iPhone you It would be like a quantum display.

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Speaker 1: That's right, iPhone verse, Tim Cook, give us a call.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Somebody put a trademark on man. We need

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Speaker 1: like a constant legal team standing by just to you know,

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Speaker 1: get down all the great ideas we come up with.

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Speaker 1: On the fly. So how could we tell if we

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Speaker 1: are in a pixelated universe or not? Yeah, well that's

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Speaker 1: hard because to see that we are in a pixelated universe,

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Speaker 1: and we'd have to see the pixels, right, So we

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Speaker 1: have to zoom in somehow far enough to be able

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Speaker 1: to see them, and of course so far we haven't.

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Speaker 1: So far everything seems continuous. We don't notice discontinuities in

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Speaker 1: the way things move um, and we also have no

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Speaker 1: idea how big these pixels are. Right, so far, we

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Speaker 1: have explored space and matter using high energy particle colliders,

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Speaker 1: and that's let us probe down to about ten to

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Speaker 1: the minus twenty meters. That's zero point than twenty zeros

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Speaker 1: in a one. I mean, that's a tiny little distance.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what the prefixes for that. It's

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Speaker 1: some super tiny distance. We've studied space down about that

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Speaker 1: distance using particle colliders where we smash these tiny particles

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Speaker 1: together and use the probe tons so like look inside

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Speaker 1: the other protons, and that lets us study space. So

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Speaker 1: we know that if there are space pixels, they have

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Speaker 1: to be smaller than that, right, you meaning at the

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Speaker 1: large Hadron collider, you can poke things at that distance,

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Speaker 1: meaning you can tell if things matched together within that

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Speaker 1: small of a distance apart. Right, Yeah, Essentially, our current

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Speaker 1: theory assumes a space is continuous, and our current theory

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Speaker 1: doesn't break down down to ten of the minus twenty,

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Speaker 1: and so we would notice some deviation. Something would be different,

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Speaker 1: The calculations would be wrong if space became pixelated and

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Speaker 1: at a level let that we didn't expect. And so

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Speaker 1: so far we're pretty sure spaces seems continuous down to

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Speaker 1: ten to the minus twenty. So the pixels, if they exist,

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Speaker 1: have to be really small, right. But I wonder, you know,

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Speaker 1: if there's a philosophical limit there, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: sense that like, do you think Super Mario, if he's

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Speaker 1: in the video game and he's a pixelated character, could

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Speaker 1: he tell that the world was pixelated? You know, because

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Speaker 1: he's pixelated and he thinks in pixelated thought? Could he

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Speaker 1: not things pixelated thoughts? Yeah, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I think, in terms of thought units, here's a three

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Speaker 1: pixel unit thought. I think that's an interesting question. If

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Speaker 1: the pixels they we lived in a universe where the

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Speaker 1: pixels were fairly large in comparison to our bodies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's hard to imagine that realistically

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Speaker 1: because it would mean there's a pretty strong limit on

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Speaker 1: how complex our bodies could be. I mean, if your

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Speaker 1: body was made out of pixels that were like six

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Speaker 1: centimeters across, then you could just couldn't be very complicated

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Speaker 1: if you were a meat or tall. In order to

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Speaker 1: have enough complication to have an interesting mind, you know,

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Speaker 1: you need a huge, complicated brain. So the brain would

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Speaker 1: have to be enormous compared to the size of the pixels.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's pretty hard to have complex enough

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Speaker 1: life to ask that question um and still be small

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Speaker 1: compared to the size of the pixels. So if super

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Speaker 1: Mario is an idiot, then yeah, he'd probably be pretty

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Speaker 1: close to the size of the pixels. But then he's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be asking the question why am I pixels? Well,

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Speaker 1: his intelligence would be pixelated, so he probably have zero units.

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Speaker 1: And then if he takes a mushroom, is that going

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Speaker 1: to grow too? That's just you know, I always wondered

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Speaker 1: about those mushrooms, you know, does that change the way

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Speaker 1: he thinks? Like what is going on with those mustions?

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Speaker 1: But where do I get something? He doesn't actually get

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Speaker 1: bigger at just his pixels in his mind. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Then the other question is, you know, would he even

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Speaker 1: think to ask the question if pixels were obviously the universe,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't ask why is the universe pixelated? You would

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Speaker 1: just be one of the basic assumptions that you accept

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Speaker 1: day to day, you know. And that's one of the

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Speaker 1: things I find fascinating about physics is that we keep

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Speaker 1: unraveling basic assumptions about the universe that we didn't even

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Speaker 1: really think to question, you know, the questions like is

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Speaker 1: time the same for everybody? Right? Of course we used

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Speaker 1: to think, of course, it was like time is time

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Speaker 1: in a clock here and a clock there are the same,

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Speaker 1: And now we know it's not. Time is relative and

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Speaker 1: depends on your speed and all sorts of weird stuff.

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Speaker 1: So physics is helping us peel back the universe and

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Speaker 1: figure out where are perceptions have led to biases in

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Speaker 1: the way we view the universe, and so why that's

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Speaker 1: why this space pixelization is just like another one on

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Speaker 1: the list. It might be eventually, physics shows us that

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Speaker 1: space is different than the way we always imagine, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's made up of these little units. So I think

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Speaker 1: what you're saying is that as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: we look at the world around us and the complexity

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Speaker 1: of it, it's such that we're pretty sure that it's

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Speaker 1: not pixelated up to a certain scale, which is tend

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Speaker 1: to the minus twenty. Yeah, we certainly do. And if

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Speaker 1: we were close to the pixel scale, it would limit

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Speaker 1: how much complexity we could have in our universe. Right

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Speaker 1: If if the pixels were a centimeter across, then our

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Speaker 1: one meter scale life couldn't be very complex at all. Right, Right,

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Speaker 1: Like what kind of interesting thing could you build out

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Speaker 1: of actual real sized legos? Right, you can't make a

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Speaker 1: machine that's very complicated. You know, you want to see

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Speaker 1: these rich effects that you see when you put the

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Speaker 1: world around you. Yeah, yeah, Okay. So what makes scientists

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Speaker 1: even think that the universe could be pixelated? I think

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Speaker 1: they were just hanging out in the sevenies and smoking

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Speaker 1: too much weed and they were like, man, though, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not like um. Some people might think, Oh, it

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Speaker 1: comes from the idea that the universe is a simulation,

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Speaker 1: and if it's a simulation, then of course it's pixelated,

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Speaker 1: because computers in the outside the universe are pixelated. Now,

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Speaker 1: it comes from a deeper place becomes from noticing that

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics seems to work really well. Right, Quantum mechanics

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Speaker 1: has described everything we know except for gravity, and it

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Speaker 1: seems to be a fundamental description of the universe that

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Speaker 1: everything is quantized. You know, packets of light, for example,

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Speaker 1: can't have an arbitrary amount of energy, they can only

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Speaker 1: have certain units of energy. Matter itself is made out

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Speaker 1: of particles, which are little quantized bits of stuff. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it seems like, for for a reason we don't understand,

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Speaker 1: the universe is quantized, and quantized of course, just means

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Speaker 1: little units of stuff, and so it's very natural to

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Speaker 1: imagine that space also might be quantized. The space also,

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Speaker 1: instead of being infinitely divisible, might also be it out

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Speaker 1: of pieces. Because the universe seems to like quantum mechanics.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying that, like the stuff that we see

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Speaker 1: around us does have smallest bits, like there is a

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Speaker 1: lego piece of matter. You can't split an electron really

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Speaker 1: like you can have half an electron or a quarter

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Speaker 1: of electron. So maybe that says something about the universe

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Speaker 1: as a whole, like maybe everything is just kind of blocking.

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Speaker 1: That's right, it would make sense, it would it would

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Speaker 1: feel natural and it would feel coherent with what we

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Speaker 1: think about modern physics if space was also quantized. And

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Speaker 1: then there's you know, there's some technical reasons, like there

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Speaker 1: are some theories physics which just don't work if you

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Speaker 1: get small enough. What do you mean, you know, some

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Speaker 1: theories of quantum mechanics and the way it describes interactions

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Speaker 1: below a certain distance that you just start to get infinities.

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Speaker 1: Like you you know, how does the theory of physics work? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's something that predicts an experiment, right, say,

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Speaker 1: I think this is going to happen. What is my

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Speaker 1: theory of electromagnetism tell me? And so you can do

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Speaker 1: some calculation. It tells you the actron is gonna turn

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Speaker 1: left and go at this angle. But sometimes the theories

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Speaker 1: break and they give you numbers that make no sense,

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Speaker 1: like oh, the electron is gonna turn and it's gonna

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Speaker 1: go to infinite angle or have infinite energy. So there's

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Speaker 1: some theories and it's a bit too technical to get

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Speaker 1: into that break down at really really small scales um

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Speaker 1: and they just start to give infinities. And so some

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Speaker 1: of those problems are solved if you have the smallest distance,

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Speaker 1: because then you don't have to go to those smallest scales, right,

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Speaker 1: And this especially is a problem when people try to

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Speaker 1: describe gravity using quantum mechanics. It comes up with all

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Speaker 1: sorts of crazy problems. And one solution to that is

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Speaker 1: to say, well, what if there is the shortest distance,

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Speaker 1: then we don't have to think about doing these calculations

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Speaker 1: down to infinitely small distances. Right, So nothing can happen

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Speaker 1: at such a small scale. So in theory, the theory

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Speaker 1: doesn't break down. It's just nothing can happen at that scale.

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Speaker 1: So why you can worry about it. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: a clue. It's saying, oh, this theory doesn't work. It

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Speaker 1: can't describe universe where there's infinitely small distances something. Then

426
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: the idea is, well, maybe the theory is wrong, or

427
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: maybe the universe doesn't have infinitely small distances, in which

428
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: case the theory works. There's lots of fun ways to

429
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: make your theory work, and one of them is just

430
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: to imagine that the places where it breaks are the

431
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: places where it's not physical, where it's not actually describing

432
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: what's happening. Well, this is a perfect point to take

433
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: a break. Well, this is interesting. So there's apparently a

434
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: number that physicists think might be the pixel of the universe. Like,

435
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: there's like a concrete number they think might tell you

436
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 1: what the pixelation the resolution of the universe is, right

437
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: a little bit, I mean I think that's overstating it.

438
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 1: There is a number which we think might have something

439
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: to do with the pixelization of the universe. But the

440
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: argument is pretty weak. All right, I'll walk you through it,

441
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 1: but you'll be unimpressed with how strong argument is. Alright,

442
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: just trying to manage your expectations a little bit, right,

443
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: all right, I'll make them pixel size. There you go, Yeah,

444
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: I go from one unit of expectation. Here's the argument.

445
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: The argument is, we've noticed there are some fundamental constants

446
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: in the universe, like the speed of light, and that

447
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,479
Speaker 1: has units meters per second, right, And that's just a number,

448
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: and we measure it, and it's a parameter of the universe.

449
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: We don't know why it's this and why it's that,

450
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: and of course we have a whole podcast episode about that,

451
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: but it is a number. And there are other units

452
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: we've noticed, like the strength of gravity, right, it's called

453
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: big G. The gravitational constant appears in Newton's formula, and uh,

454
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,479
Speaker 1: you know, and the plank constant, the one that appears

455
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: in quantum mechanics. It tells you how um, well, you

456
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: can know two numbers at the same time. So there's

457
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: all these basic units that we've measured and we've discovered,

458
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: and we think they reveal something about the universe. We

459
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: think they tell us something about why the universe is

460
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: this way not that way, and we don't know where

461
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 1: they come from. They're kind of like the pie or

462
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: you know, just the number that exists in the universe. Yeah, well,

463
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: pies an especially fascinating one because it's unit lists, right,

464
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: so it's pure in some sense. But these numbers have units,

465
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: you know, they're like jewels per second or meters per

466
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 1: second or whatever. And so we think they tell us

467
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: something about why the universe is this size or has

468
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: this or you can go this fast, or you know,

469
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: it's some sort of like ratio between two things. Yes, exactly.

470
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: They fix the relationship between things like the speed of

471
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: light fixes the relationship between distance and time. Right, it's

472
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: meters per second, So I see that the speed of

473
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: light is like a universal physics number. Yes exactly, And

474
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: so there's other numbers like these in physics theories. Yeah,

475
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: there's a few that we've discovered along the way, and

476
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: we think they're deep and fundamental, and you know, some

477
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: future theory of physics might reveal why they are the

478
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: way they are, but currently they're just numbers, and we

479
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: imagine that they could have been set to something else,

480
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: and that's a whole other discussion. Here's the thing you

481
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: can do, though, is that you can manipulate these numbers.

482
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: You can multiply them by each other until you get

483
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: a number that has units of distance. So you multiply

484
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: um planks constant and you have the gravitational constant the

485
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: speed of light squared. You can cancel out all the

486
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: units until you get a number that has just units

487
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: of distance. Okay, so what is that number. Well, they

488
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: call it the plank length because it has planks constant

489
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: in it, and it's a number. And the number is

490
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: ten to the minus thirty five meters. That's zero point

491
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: thirty five zeros and then a one. So that's a tiny,

492
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: tiny number. And because it comes from these simple basic units,

493
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: we imagine it has special meaning. We imagine that it's

494
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: a clue that it tells us something about the way

495
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: the universe works. And because it's just units of distance,

496
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: we like to think that it tells us something about

497
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: the fundamental nature of distance in the universe, that does it?

498
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. It's just a bunch of numbers

499
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: we multiplied together, you know, and we thought those numbers

500
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: were important, but maybe they're not. It's kind of like

501
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: if you take the smallest things and the fastest things,

502
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, like the the smallest bit

503
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: of matter and the going up the fastest possible speed,

504
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: and you know, what would be the smallest distance that

505
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: it could go. That's kind of what it is to

506
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: mix all of these numbers together. Right, Yeah, it's it's

507
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: not that much smarter an argument than that great I

508
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: feelt like that was an insult. I don't say that

509
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: to insult physics, right, Like, it's not a great argument.

510
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: But it's the first thing you do, right, it's unit analysis.

511
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: Say well, if we have no clue, what can we do. Well,

512
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: let's command these numbers and maybe that will give us

513
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: a clue. So it's not no physicist are out there

514
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: saying this is definitely the fundamental unit of the distance.

515
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: It just says, if there is one, it might be

516
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: around this number. I mean, within a factor of a

517
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: hundred or a thousand would be a pretty still a

518
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: pretty good clue, right, tend to the negative thirty five,

519
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: which sounds really small. It is really small. It is

520
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: really small, but it's kind of it's not small comparative infinity,

521
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like the number Pi,

522
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: you can take decimals out to thirty five thirty five

523
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: million decimals. Yeah, but you're saying maybe the universe only

524
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: goes up to thirty five decimals. Yeah, that's right. It's

525
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: a lot bigger than you know, ten to the minus

526
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: one hundred, or ten of the minus one thousand, or

527
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: ten of the minus ten thousand, Right, these are much

528
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: much smaller numbers. Um. The thing is, it's also much

529
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: smaller than the thing we've seen. Remember we studied space

530
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: down about ten to the minus twenty, So that means

531
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: that we are a factor ten to the fifteen away

532
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: from seeing these pixels, if in fact they exist, and

533
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: if they're at that scale. Yeah, I mean, just for

534
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: a sense of scale, like the solar system is ten

535
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: to the fifteen meters across, I believe, so if you

536
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: could only see things, you know, down to ten to

537
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: the fifteen meters, you'd be missing a lot of interesting detail,

538
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: Like you'd miss Earth and life and planets and stuff

539
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: and us. What a tragedy, I know. How could you

540
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: study the universe without seeing the most important and best

541
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: looking two dudes in it? Right? Like if you were

542
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: a giant decisive a galaxy and you had an iPhone

543
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: the size of you know, the Milky Way, and the

544
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: biggest pixel in it was the sizeable solar system, there

545
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: would be a lot you'd be missing exactly. So between

546
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: where we've seen at tend of the minus twenty meters

547
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: and how far things might go attend to the minus

548
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: thirty five ms, they would be a huge amount of

549
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: complexity and richness down there that we're totally ignorant of.

550
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: Little tiny pixel people think asking these same questions, it

551
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: could be a little pixelated alien going Mario, hold on,

552
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard your time. That's pretty good,

553
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: and we just lost all of our Italian listeners. Um,

554
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: the Italian listeners please write in and comment at Jorge's

555
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: accent at Daniel and Jorge dot comn Jorgel fans, the

556
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: whole Country dot Com. Okay, well, um, let's get some

557
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: perspective here. What what do you think would mean for

558
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: us and our understanding of ourselves or universe if we

559
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: found out that the universe is pixelated? It would be

560
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: a really deep inside just into the very nature of

561
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: the universe. You know, to know that number tells you

562
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: something about the scale at which the universe was built. Right,

563
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: Everything in the universe happens from its basic elements. So

564
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: we have fascinating structure, you know, galaxies and superclusters and

565
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: all that stuff, but all that arises from the interactions

566
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: of smaller pieces, you know, particles and electrons. Everything is

567
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: determined by what happens at the smallest scale, right, So

568
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: everything in the universe comes out of these basic elements.

569
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: So to learn how big the smallest unit is tells

570
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: you how the universe was constructed. And in the end,

571
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: what is science and physics about other than this goal

572
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: of trying to deprogram the universe or look at the

573
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: source code or figure out how this thing is organized.

574
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: And so that would be pretty pretty awesome, but you

575
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: know it would actually just be a first step. Yeah, no,

576
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: it's it's you just made me realize it would really

577
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: kind of blow your mind to just have this sense

578
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: that the universe has a structure, right, that it's somehow

579
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: feels built, you know, like there's a scaffolding to the universe. Yeah,

580
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: like a graph paper, right, And then you have to

581
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: ask questions like who made the graph paper and why

582
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: that size? Right? Why is it ten of THEUS and

583
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: not ten of the minus five or ten of the

584
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: mines thirty meters? Right? What does that mean? There's like

585
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: a clue there about the very structure of the universe.

586
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: Is it a random number and it generated arbitrarily when

587
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: all the multiverses were created? Or does it give you

588
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: a clue somehow about something deep about the universe. On

589
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: the other hand, you know, we talked about like galaxy

590
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: is just being emergent phenomenon, right, there a really cool thing,

591
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: but they're just formed out of smaller bits and their

592
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: complex behavior arises into this thing called a galaxy. A

593
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: lot of people think these days that space itself could

594
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: be an emergent phenomenon, Okay, that these pixels of space

595
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: could be built out of something smaller that are not

596
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: that's not space. So space is not space, is what

597
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: you're saying space is actually you know, A and B

598
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: or a combination of Yeah, yeah, the way like you know,

599
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: cookies are not their ingredients, right, you mix them together,

600
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: you bake them, you get a cookie. But if you

601
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: start with flour and utter and sugar and none of

602
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: those things are cookies, right, So cookies an emergent phenomena

603
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: in your kitchen. They're not a fundament you know what

604
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean, unless you buy a lot of cookies and

605
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: that's all you buy, in which case they are the

606
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: fundamental pixel of your kitchen. Like, there's even some hidden

607
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: forces inside of space, is what you're saying, right, Like

608
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: there's something yes, yeah, And there's some pretty cool theories

609
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: about that. Like there's one that's called them quantum loop theory,

610
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: and it builds space out of these tiny little loops.

611
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: It says, maybe the fundamental unit of location in the

612
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: universe is not space, it's something else. It's these little

613
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: tiny loops, and those would be quantized of course, quantum

614
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: loop gravity. And out of those the way those things

615
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: are connected, space is formed. And that can tell you

616
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: all sorts of things, like well, maybe that tells you

617
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: why there's a maximum speed to how fast information can

618
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: travel through space because it's how fast these loops can

619
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: talk to each other. Like space is not like a space,

620
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: is not like a jelly or like a space. It's

621
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: more like a mesh or like a weed. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

622
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: or a really complicated subway system and connected by these

623
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: other forces. And so you hear people eminent um science

624
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: communicated saying things like maybe space emerges from the quantum foam, right,

625
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: and like I was to hear that, and I think,

626
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: what does that even mean? Man um And that's what

627
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: it means. It means that it's not a basic element

628
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: of the universe, but that it comes out of the

629
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: interaction of smaller stuff, right the way cookies come out

630
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: of ingredients. Because I'm walking down the street, what's actually

631
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: happened is that all of my electrons and protons and

632
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: cords are actually like moving around in this mesh, this

633
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: invisible mesh that is the universe. No, no, no, I

634
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: think it's even it's a trickier to think about than that,

635
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: because you can't think of these elements of this mesh

636
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: as bits of space. They're not right, You can't move

637
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: from one to the other. Somehow space arises from that

638
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: This whole concept of location and motion through it could

639
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: be an emergent phenomenon, right, and the one that doesn't

640
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: have any meaning below that distance. So you're not moving

641
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: through the mesh somehow, you know, information is propagating through

642
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: the measure, the mess is interacting with itself in some way.

643
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: But this notion of moving comes out of your assumption that,

644
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: like space is fundamental, and we have to rethink that

645
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: if space is not fundamental, meaning like a super Mario

646
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: moving around the screen in your TV, it's not actually moving.

647
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: He's just like a table of data in some program

648
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: that doesn't doesn't look like space. It's just numbers related

649
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: to each other exactly. That's the perfect way to think

650
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: about it. What makes those pixels right, not smaller pixels? Right?

651
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: It's some calculation inside the iPhone and is a little

652
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: bit of technology there that lights that up, and you

653
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: know it's not motion, So it's something totally different underneath.

654
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: And so it could be the universe is made out

655
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: of things that this gradation is granularity of space. These

656
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: grains are made out of something totally new and alien

657
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: to us, and discovering them could peel back a layer

658
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: and reveal something really deep about the universe and so

659
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, past the joint man, because we're we're getting

660
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: pretty deep here. So what do you think or hey,

661
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: do you think space is pixelated? Or you think this

662
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: is just a crazy idea? You know, intuitively, it seems implausible, right,

663
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: Like space seems so smooth, and like we said before,

664
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: it would mean that we're always sort of teleporting from

665
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: one spot to the other. But you know, like you said,

666
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: who knows, right, we used to think matter was perfectly smooth,

667
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: but it turned out not to be. So it sounds

668
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: like modern physics has uprooted you from all of your

669
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: beliefs about the way the world works. Huh. You know

670
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: you now have skepticism about everything. Yeah, are you even there, Daniel?

671
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: Um No. I think that's a healthy attitude, you know,

672
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: um And I think it's hard to hold that in

673
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: your head. I mean, on one hand, you go around

674
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: your daily life, you drive your car, you buy coffee,

675
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: you do all these things without thinking about the way

676
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: the world is working underneath you. And then sometimes I'm

677
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: just struck breathless by realizing the credible complexity of things

678
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: that are happening invisibly around us. Um And you know,

679
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: that things might be totally different from the way we imagined.

680
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: It's hard to hold that in your head a lot,

681
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: which is why it's nice sometimes to just read a

682
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: magazine and you a cup of coffee because it's breathtaking.

683
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: You know. It's disorienting the way learning that we're tiny

684
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: specs on a little mode of dust and a huge

685
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: universe is um but it's also fun. Well, I hope

686
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: that you guys out there listening also maybe see the

687
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: world a little bit differently. All right, thanks very much

688
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: for listening, and enjoy the rest of your day. If

689
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: you still have a question after listening to all these explanations,

690
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: please drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.

691
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at

692
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or email us at

693
00:35:54,680 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Nine