WEBVTT - Legally Brunette: Menendez Brothers & Gene Hackman 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.680 Hi, guys, welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.400 will be your host today Emily Simpson with my co 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.159 host Shane Shane. Okay, today we thought it was really 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.200 important to do, first of all and update in the 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:20.760 Menendez case. It is proceeding along actually very swiftly, and 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.960 it's been interesting because Gavin Newsom has now really gotten 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.720 involved in this case. First of all, you all know 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:33.760 that DA Nathan Hawkman is involved in the Menendez case 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:38.839 and in the resentencing, he reversed the course of his predecessor, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.839 who was Gascon. He was a more progressive DA. He 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.000 was the one that was really pushing for the resentencing 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.360 of the Menendez brothers. But Hawkman came out and said 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.640 that he will only reconsider if the brothers apologize for 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.200 what he calls a litany of lies. So he was 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.480 interviewed and he told NBC News quote, if they go 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.800 ahead and sincerely and unequivocally for the first time in 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.000 thirty years layout that they have now lied on their 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.160 entire defense and finally admit that they killed their parents 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.520 in cold blood, then that will be a new insight 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.759 that the court should then reconsider what he is doing, 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.800 what Hawkman is doing is withdrawing the DA's support for 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:27.760 their recenencing, and he featured a list of sixteen unacknowledged 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.600 lies by the brothers. Now we'll get into some of 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.440 these sixteen lies that he's saying that they need to 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.160 basically come clean and fess up to before he would 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.560 even consider giving a recommendation that the judge should resentence them. Basically, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.319 he's saying, I'm not supporting the resentencing at this point. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.560 That was on Monday, March tenth. 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.480 So all so far. The only condition that he's adding 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.560 is that they confess to a cold blooded murder. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.720 No, they did murder their passion. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.000 She may not confess, but he wants them to apologize. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.480 No, he said that. Basically, what he's done is he's 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.320 gone back and he's basically retrying them, which is not 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.720 what resentencing is about. This is where I think he's 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.840 completely off base and he's not understanding resentencing. Resentencing is 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.600 based on rehabilitation and where they are now and have 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.200 they learned their lessons and are they different. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.880 People revisit them revisiting. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.799 He's gone back and I feel like he's retrying them, 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.280 and he's saying, look in this first trial, there's these 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.839 sixteen lies. And before I'll even consider giving a recommendation 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.200 that you should be resentence, you need to go back 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.080 and admit that you know, lied about all these things. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.680 And literally the first trial or the second trial, it. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.919 Was the first trial. But here's the thing. When they 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.800 were tried in the first trial, all of these lies 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.760 were testified to, they were cross examined on, the jury 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.840 heard them, and then the jury ended up being a 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.639 hung jury. So I don't think to me, those are 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.160 moot issues at this point. We've already tried these They 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:01.840 were also eighteen and twenty one at the time, so 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.400 we do have to consider that we're talking about thirty 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:10.440 five years prior. So next, this is on Monday, March tenth, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.720 when Hawkman withdrew any type of support for their resentencing. 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:19.679 I think Newsom is playing chess with Hawkman, because then 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.480 the next day, on Tuesday, March eleventh, California Governor Gavin 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:29.919 Newsom dropped a breaking news on his new podcast, announcing 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.520 that Lyle and Eric will go in front of the 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:36.440 Parole Board on June thirteenth for a hearing. So what 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:41.000 he's ordered is a public risk assessment report to be 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.320 done and then they're going to have a parole Board 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:49.880 hearing on June thirteenth. So I feel like his pushing 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:51.120 for them to have a hearing in front of the 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.680 Parole board was a direct response to Hawkman saying we 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.320 withdraw any support for the resentencing. I mean, you can 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:04.320 tell that to me. It's like like Gavin Newsom's playing 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.760 chess with Hawkman. Hawkman makes a move and then the 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.720 next day on his podcast, Gavin Newsom's like, well, I'm 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.360 going to give him a parole board hearing and we're 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.000 going to do this risk assessment. 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.320 You know. It's kind of like the publicity with the 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:24.120 Netflix special and whatnot afforded them the opportunity the voice 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.280 where people wanted a resentencing or whatever and it kind 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.599 of resurfaced, right, So it gave him kind of that spotlight, 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.159 and it's also giving them the spotlight where now Gavin 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.440 Newsom and other people are like stepping in and everyone 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.919 wants to be in the kitchen, you know, cooking on 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:39.360 this thing. 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.239 And well, yeah, I mean, let's be honest, we're talking 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.320 about To me, it's a pr stot on both sides. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.839 Because Hawkman likes to give news conferences all the time. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.560 He clearly enjoys being in front of the camera, and 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.480 the way for him to get publicity in front of 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.679 the camera is to talk about Menendez because everyone's obsessed 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.839 with this case. Then Gavin Newsom has a new podcast. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.480 So what's a better way for him to get views 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.120 on his podcasts and to get his podcasts out there 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.120 than to announce that he that he's asked, you know, 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.120 the parole board to give them a hearing and so 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.400 but you know, what's also interesting is that they independently 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.880 have hearings on June thirteenth in front of the parole board, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.320 which means that they're not being lumped together into like 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.599 one decision. It is normal, but I think for me, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.120 even though that you've. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.279 Seen them together all the time, so then it's like 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.200 you just assume that it's right. One of them is 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.919 a couple committing the crime, and so they should be 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:36.880 tried the same, and they're the same, and here they 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.080 are being separated, and then it runs the risk of 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.400 one being you know, getting a different result than the. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.160 Other exactly well that that there's a potential for that 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.839 because they have independent parole hearings. Even though I do 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.320 know that they've had amazing prison records over the past 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.479 thirty five years. They've been heavily involved in lots of 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.200 things like green space where they're putting you know, they're 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.640 painting murals and creating green space in the prisons. They've 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:07.760 been involved in the hospice, and they've both academically excelled 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.440 and gotten degrees, and they've worked with, you know, other 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.120 victims of abuse. And they also claimed on a recent 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.960 podcast that they did with Garagos you know how Garaghos 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:23.920 and what's the guy's name from TMZ, Harvey Harvey Harvey Harvey, 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.960 because you know, because you watch TMZ all the time. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:28.320 No, yes, you do. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.320 You're the one that told me that TMZ stood for 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:31.280 a thirty mile zone. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.720 What do I mean? I know? I wat? 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.760 Well, okay, you get TMZ, you get TMC alerts on 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:38.320 your phone. 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:39.560 I know this annoying. 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.440 Well that's what I'm saying, all right. Anyway, anyway, so 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.520 the brothers actually did an interview on their podcast recently 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.080 I think this was last week, and they were talking 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.320 about all these things that they've done in prison. Anyway, 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.400 my whole point is the recencing comes down to rehabilitation. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.159 And are they a different person than they were thirty 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:03.160 five years ago? Have they grown, have they rehabilitated themselves? 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.880 Are they a risk to society? How does their family feel? 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.960 And we all know that their entire family supports them 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.320 being released and being recent So anyway, that's where we at. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.120 So they still have also which is interesting because I'm 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.600 not really sure how this works, but they still have 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.760 their resentencing hearing scheduled for March twentieth and the twenty first. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.520 So I was actually chatting about it with Alex who 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.280 represents them, she's on their team, on their legal team, 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.360 and she was saying, well, it hasn't been continued or 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.600 rescheduled or anything at this point. So basically what they 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:42.560 could do is proceed forward and present evidence of their rehabilitation, 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.120 their prison record, the family and all of that stuff, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.640 and then we'll see what happens on June thirteenth when 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.440 they go before the parole board. 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.119 So basically, Menendez update is another stay tuned. 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.680 It is another stay tuned. But I think what's really 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.920 interesting is that Hawkman comes out and basically kills the 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.480 resentencing like it, you know what I mean, Like he 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.920 it's doomsday for him and then Gavin Newsom comes out 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.480 the next day and he's like, no, it's not Kevin 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.600 news Some just Granthum plenacy Commune. Yes he could, and 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.560 that's that's another option. So we still have two options 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:19.160 at this point. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.480 And then he should have him on his podcast. Exactly 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:23.360 wants the ratings there you go. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.800 Yeah, he's going to have to pay a lot for that, though, 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.480 I think they're not just going to go on a 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.320 podcast for he's got money. Let's talk about just a 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.680 little bit of the sixteen. Hawkman calls them the unacknowledged 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.480 lies that they have not admitted to, So let's just well, 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:41.800 we won't go through all of them, but let's just 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.480 go through some Eric and Lyle Liby. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.840 Next question, so these lies are in the first trial, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.040 not in the second. If in the first trial there 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.760 are lies and then the second trial just for arguments 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.400 there were no lies, then why is he going back 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.560 to that like the first trial that got thrown out? 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.120 Anyway, Well, I think that's the whole point of he's 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.280 not really understanding or wanting to understand. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.920 Or allows them to be released. He won't be able 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.360 to do any public speaking anymore. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.280 No, he needs another famous case, cam up the. 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.200 Murders out. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.199 They are staying in so that I can give weekly 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.800 press conferences. All right, he said, some of these lies 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:25.600 are Eric and Lyle lied when they claim that their 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:27.800 parents were going to kill them and that they had 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.600 to act in self defense by murdering them. First, first 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.280 of all, their defense in their first trial was not 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.640 self defense. It was actually imperfect self defense. So that's 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.800 not exactly accurate. And imperfect self defense is a partial 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.960 defense that doesn't meant all legal requirements, but may reduce 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.280 the severity of a criminal charge. So, for example, a 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.600 defendant may claim imperfect self defense, which the brothers did, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:58.160 if they reasonably but mistakenly believe that they were in 0:09:58.240 --> 0:09:59.840 danger of death or serious injury. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.240 Yeah, so, which is like, okay, you genuinely were in 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:08.280 fear for your safety. However, a reasonably prudent person would 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:09.679 not be in fear. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.720 Right and exactly, and this is what their defense was 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.800 in the first trial was imperfect self defense because there 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.040 was no immediate harm when they killed their parents. Their 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.160 parents were sitting and you know, in the in the 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.920 den watching a movie, eating ice cream and blueberries when 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.679 they came in and shot them. So the imperfect self 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.520 defense was a reasonable person would not feel that their 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.880 life was in imminent danger at that time. However, their 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.040 defense was they had been abused for so long that 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.720 they weren't thinking like a reasonable, rational person, and that 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.280 they felt that they were that their parents were going 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:43.960 to kill them. 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.520 And I feel that children always apply it a self defense, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.880 and it's really an imperfect self defense. It's like, yeah, Okay, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.959 you're scared, I get it, but you shouldn't be scared, right, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.400 I get it. He hurt your feelings, so you hit him, 0:10:58.440 --> 0:10:59.560 but you shouldn't have been hurt. 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.520 So you're just saying kids in general, their excuses are 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.280 always imperfect self defense. But they're eighteen and twenty one. 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.360 Are they still considered kids at this point? 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:09.360 I was just talking about our kids. 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.320 You were just talking about our children. Now, Okay, So 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.320 from now on, when Annabel argues with me, I'm going 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:14.680 to be like, that's an imperfect self is. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.160 Going to mitigate your punishment. It's not going to alleviate 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:19.280 you from any We're just. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:26.120 Raising little lawyers over here or defendants or that. So 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.800 is Annabel a defendant or a future lawyer, She's a 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:30.640 person of interest. 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:33.400 Ally Day always a. 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.280 Person of interest, all right. Another one is to support 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.199 their self defense claims. Eric and Lyle tried to suborn 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.719 perjury by asking Eric's friend Brian to testify that they 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.360 borrowed one of his handguns the night before the murder 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.360 to defend themselves against their parents. So there are there 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:54.839 were several instances of them trying to get people to 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.319 testify to their defense. Another one was, I believe Lyle 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.040 asked a girl friend to testify that, you know, his 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.840 dad had made sexual advances at her or raped her 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.280 or something like that. They also testified the purpose of 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.600 their one hundred and twenty mile drive to San Diego 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.480 was not to buy shotguns, when in fact, that was 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:15.960 the reason that they made the trip. 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.160 These two kids, we'll just go off the you know, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.400 we'll just be in agreement that they killed their parents 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.000 for their own safety, so I can make my argument. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.920 So if they're doing that, most people, if not all, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.880 don't like you kill your parents cold blooded? Right because 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.640 you did it without being provoked. You did it, And 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.960 now let me think, so do you do it? You 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.280 kill your parents? They didn't attack you. You just walked in. 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.600 They're on the couch. You shoot them they're dead, you 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.240 feel better. You're not going to think, hey, I have 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.880 a self defense because I was in fear of my safety. 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.120 They're gonna worry, holy crap, we just killed our parents. 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.520 We have to hide this. If someone advised them in 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.640 the beginning, look this, you can have a defense where 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.920 there's a time where you're you know, in fear of 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.480 your safety and this and that, and so you kill 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.240 them because it's your only way out and blah blah 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.440 blah blah. Then they might have been truthful. But it's 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.640 normal for people to think, holy crapit has killed someone. 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.360 I better hide this, even if they did it for 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.720 their safety. So if a female kills the boyfriend because 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.959 he's a jerk and he keeps beating her, not all 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.839 of them are like, well, had I had a good 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.360 legal defense, They're going to think I just killed someone. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:26.839 I better cover this up, right. 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.400 So you're saying a reasonable person is going to hide 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.640 the fact that they murdered someone because that's just the 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.240 natural instinct of what to do. 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.360 But reasonable people don't even kill, so I arguably in 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.400 a reasonable state of mind. I mean, I hate it 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.199 when they say a reasonable person would have called the 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.360 police No, I don't know. I'd probably be scared to death, 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.040 and I would have attacked the person that was coming 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.280 in my house or reacted in a way. It's like, no, 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.400 one's like someone comes and points a gun at me, 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.120 and then the law is telling me to act like 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:55.480 a reasonably prudent person. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:03.160 What about the now we know with sexual abuse, we 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.600 know that they lie about the abuse, and they lie 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.480 to cover up the abuse. So is that a factor 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.719 that should be taken into consideration considering that they might 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.040 have lied about a litany of things, as Hawkman says, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.920 but maybe their first instinct is to lie about things 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.680 because they're still trying to cover up the abuse that 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:21.320 they enter. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.800 So you're saying, it's like, oh, I I didn't kill them. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.360 Oh it wasn't me, Oh it was my friend. Oh 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.920 it was because he attacked me. Oh it was I 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.000 thought he was going to kill me. Okay, you know what, 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.200 he just made my life miserable growing up, and I 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:35.920 hated it and I had no way out and I 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:37.960 was fearful of him, so I killed him. Okay. Sorry. 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:39.440 Then it's like, well, then why do you say all 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:40.200 that in the first. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.360 Place, right, But my point is based upon what you 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:49.520 just said, that sexual abuse victims lie initially to cover 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.520 it up, like they're not forthcoming about sexual abuse. So 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:54.480 I'm saying that. 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.480 Oh, they cover up the abuse, right because maybe embarrassment 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.000 they feel their right. 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.120 Well, like we know that as a fact based upon 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.400 psychological research, that sexual abuse victims lie about the abuse. 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.280 It's just a tough call for in all scenarios. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.520 They also tried to get someone to lie and say 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.440 that they were present when their mother tried to poison. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.320 Their family, but they had a legal defense or they didn't. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.560 They thought that that was a better thing than saying, oh, 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.480 I was scared of my daddy. So they're probably trying 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.240 to come up with scenarios to get out of this thing. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.440 But this is when they're testifying, I believe. Yeah, when 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.120 they did shoot their parents, they staged it in a 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.240 way to look like a mafia style hit. So they 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:39.680 shot the dad in the back of the head, they 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.400 shot the mother in the face, they shot him in 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.280 the knee caps it was supposed to and then they said, 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.840 oh it was mafia. He was my dad was evolved 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.280 in you know, dirty business practices. So they use that 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.440 as as a way to rewrap the police and the 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.040 investigation get it. Eric and lyle lied when they testified 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.320 that doctor Ozell, who remember, was the psychologist that Eric 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.880 confessed to. They lied when they claimed that he blackmailed 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.720 them into confessing on tape. Parents. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.000 That's the psychiatrist that talks in his sleep. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.440 Oh, I don't know, what do you mean, Well, he 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.880 had a mistress that he would tell things to. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.280 It wasn't in his sleep. I don't think claimed that 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:21.160 it was in his sleep. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.360 Oh, she might have originally because he. 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.000 Was I would never go to that psychiatrist that he 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.800 should have a warning on the door, Like a psychiatrist 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.960 is known to talk in his sleep to mistresses. 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.080 And he sleeps with other women besides his wife. Right, 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.240 let me just give one thing. Lylman Does posted on 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:44.320 Facebook after Hawkman did his after Hawkman did his press 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.040 conference and basically said he wasn't he was withdrawing the 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.560 DA's support of them being recent and so, Lyleman Does 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.160 posted on his Facebook page that quote. Of all those 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:57.400 lies Hawkman talked about, several of them were admitted stipulated 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.480 to in the first trial, and several of the other 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:04.879 lies were absolutely disproven or reasonably disputed. So he responds 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:10.280 to Hawkman's accusation. Also, the jury was a hung jury 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:14.960 in the first one, so you have to remember that. 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.440 Well, yeah, okay, you wanted to talk about the lies 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.240 in the first draw. Why don't we talk about the 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.320 fact that a handful of jury members found them not guilty? Right? 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:23.919 Right? 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:25.280 Consider it? Consider everything. 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.760 Oh, also, Mark Garrigos, who is there? Who is the 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:34.120 menindaz brothers attorney. He responded to Hawkman, and he said, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.679 there were twenty two family members who signed on and 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.760 told the DA's office stop retraumatizing us. We could tell 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.720 at the meeting that Hawkman had no interest in that, 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.080 and I think that means that he had no interest in, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.280 you know, the resentencing. This really kind of points out 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.800 one of the fallacies, if you will, of the DA 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.080 office here. They're not interested in victims. There isn't a 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.960 single living victim who endorses this. In fact, every single 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.919 victim wants them out. He continued, this, gentleman, this DA 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.560 retraumatizes the family repeatedly. He's almost serially abusing them with 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.120 his lies and his litany of lies. Family members who 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.800 support the Brothers say the DA has quote blinders onto 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.320 the fact that Eric and Lyle were repeatedly abused, feared 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.400 for their lives, and had atoned to their actions. When 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.879 asked about the sixteen lies the DA would like the 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:27.840 brothers to admit to, Gargo said, quote, he's obviously show voting. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.880 He knows for a fact both brothers were cross examined 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.159 for weeks in the first trial on all of these things. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.399 Every single one of these things that he mentioned was 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.560 either abandoned or cross examined in the first trial. And 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.280 guess what happened. Two juries not one, one for Eric 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.360 and one for Lyle. Both juries voted against murder over 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:50.800 the majority. Gargo said, Also, this is interesting. The family 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.679 sent a letter to the US Attorney's office asking that 0:18:54.800 --> 0:19:00.399 Hawkman be removed from this case because they claim that 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:05.280 he's hostile, dismissive, and patronizing towards them. These are victims, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.399 and apparently he's not very kind to them, according to 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.560 this letter that they've written, and they've asked that he 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.840 that it be looked into, or that he'd be even 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:18.440 removed from the case. So yeah, okay, now I'm officially 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:19.160 done with min indest. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:20.639 Time will tell. We shall see, We. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.040 Shall see what happens on March twentieth and twenty first, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.520 if they continue to go forward with that or if 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.280 it gets continued. And if they do go forward with it, 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.160 then we will continue to see what happens on June 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.479 thirteenth when they go before the parole board, when they 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.000 get this risk assessment done, and then we will see 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.080 what Governor Gavin Newsom does. So we'll have to follow 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:38.520 his podcast to find out. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.000 What's the name of this podcast. 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:41.640 I don't know. 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:42.119 I think. 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.240 He doesn't have to have a creative name because he's 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:54.920 the governor, so he can just call it his own name. Yeah, 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.280 all right, let's get into this is interesting. Gene Hackman 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.960 and his wife Betsy. We did a little last time 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.679 we recorded. We did a little synopsis on what was 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.000 known so far, which was little. At that time. We 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:09.840 just knew that they were both found dead. Now there 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.199 have been a lot of updates, so we want to 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.040 do an update on this case and talk about it 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.960 because I still find this case, even though there's there's 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.040 answers now, I still feel like there's now more questions. 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:21.800 So the new Mexico chief, let's. 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.639 Be honest, Emily always thinks that they're bigger conspiracy. I 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:26.880 have a bean. You would if they said we determine 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:32.119 if the medical examiner determined that aliens came down and 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:33.840 killed them, she would be satisfied. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:34.200 I would. 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.480 But when it's like, oh, they have this rat disease 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.000 and all the timers and he fell, then she doesn't 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:39.359