1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes life can be complicated and messy, and inner society, 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: made up of so many rules and expectations, being yourself 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: can be seen as an act of rebellion or bravery. Hi, 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: I'm Zach Stafford, and this is in the deep stories 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: that shape us. Join me as our guests black and 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Latin X men unraveled the complexities and struggles they face 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: in a place that doesn't always see them, all of 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: them for who they really are. I sit down with 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: the people, the athletes, community and thought leaders that have 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: struggled with the traditional ideals of masculinity, religion, and family 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: the society often imposes upon them. Each episode, we explore 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: the fears that make up the Black and Latin X 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: male psyche, understanding the effects of stigma and masculinity on 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: self identity. We'll talk about how these common themes of discrimination, culture, 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: and economics factor into the struggle, and yet how these 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: hardships aren't enough to stop these men on the road 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: to health and healing. I want to start off our 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: very first episode by talking about something I'm incredibly passionate about. Stories. 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: Stories we are told by family members, stories we tell 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: ourselves to make sense of the world around us. And 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: even the stories we tell ourselves to stay alive. I'm 22 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: so passionate about storytelling, not just because of my background 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: as a journalist, but because I always say that the 24 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: one thing we all do besides eat and drink each 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: day is tell each other. Stories. Is how we all communicate. 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: But what we rarely talk about is how these stories 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: shape our entire lives, maybe more than anything else, especially 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: when it comes to understanding the good and the bad 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: that happens to each of us. Today's guest, Frederick Joseph, 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: is special because he teaches us how to take our 31 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: own stories and swap trauma for love in a really 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: beautiful and expansive way. He's a New York Times bestselling author, 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: activists and philanthropists who isn't a stranger to heartbreak, and 34 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: I think his own stories of love and loss or 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: something we can all relate to, especially when some of 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: his own stories weren't always the truth as he now 37 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: knows it. But before we get to the heavier stuff, 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: I want to hear from Frederick. Where did his story begin? Frederick, 39 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: it's so great to have you today, and I'd love 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: to begin our conversation for the listeners just to like 41 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: locate who you are and where you come from. So 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: tell us where did you grow up, what was your family, 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: like all those good details about your past. Yeah, so 44 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: I grew up in Yonkers, New York. And for those 45 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: who aren't familiar with Yonkers, all of us like to say, well, 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: that's where like Mary J. Blodge is from, and that's 47 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: where DMX is from. So Yonkers is interesting. And I, 48 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, frankly, I grew up in the projects right, 49 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: raised by a single black mother, and I had a 50 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: ton of family in two places which also helped shape me, 51 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and in Columbia, South Carolina. So I spent 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, weeks at a time in South Carolina every 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: few months, and then just kind of a being the 54 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: Philly and things like that. So those all are just 55 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: ingrained in my DNA, you could say, Yeah, and I 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: had a like the inverse of that, I grew up 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: in Tennessee, but would go to the north, to Baltimore, 58 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: to Iowa, to Chicago to see family. And you know, 59 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: people don't like to think of us as black men, 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: as particularly mobile people in the world that we have 61 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: families all around. But it's a big part about being 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: black in America because due to the great migration, our 63 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: families are all over. What was it like for you 64 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: to go back and forth between these two places that 65 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: I know, personally, blackness the masculinity animates itself very differently 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: in these places sometimes, you know, I think that's an 67 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: excellent way of putting it. The manifestations of of patriarchy, 68 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: quite frankly, are different in all places. So like in 69 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: New York, you know, there's this culture of art. I 70 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: would say, men and boys, especially black men and black boys, 71 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: can practice art, but specific types of art. If you're 72 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: going to be in music, it had to be hip 73 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: hop or wrap or maybe like extremely you know, for 74 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: lack of better term, like swagged out R and B 75 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: or whatever. Right, um. But then in the South it 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: was very sports and labor intensive. I would go down 77 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: to South Carolina and that's actually where I learned to 78 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: play football, you know, just like yeah, like I learned 79 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: to play football in the South, which is kind of 80 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: like why I did so well in the norm. So 81 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: I think that the way masculinity and then patriarchy kind 82 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: of manifest in the South. For me, we're just like, 83 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: why are you doing anything pertaining in music? Why do 84 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: you care about anything pertaining art? Why are you not 85 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: more physical? Why are you not you know, kind of 86 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: like more aggressive. It was very very interesting how that 87 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: played out. You know, a word that would come up 88 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: really easily for us to say is code switching, you know, 89 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: cud switching, the very academic word where we usually refer 90 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: to that in like white versus Black spaces, Like you 91 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: go to your corporate job as a black man and 92 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: you act certain ways. You go back to your community, 93 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: you act one way. But we never talked about an 94 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: intra community about how our masculinity is changing. Do you 95 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: relate to that? Did you find yourself changing between black communities. 96 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: I was a surrogate for Elizabeth Warren's presidential campaign and 97 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: twenty and I would get sent to the South all 98 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: the time to meet with black people in various spaces, 99 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: whether that was barbershops or hair salons or churches. There's 100 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: like these recordings which my fiance laughs act She's like, oh, 101 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: whenever you go to the South, you become a Baptist 102 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: preacher whenever you're speaking publicly, And I'm just like, yeah, 103 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, because I do code switch down there. Down there, 104 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: I get very I get very Jesus five in the North. 105 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, hey, do you have the Restaurant'm like, hey, 106 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: do you have any kale and grilled chicken down there? 107 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you got you know, you've better green, 108 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: but you know, make sure the rings. I got too 109 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: much vinegar exactly. So there's definitely this code switching within blackness, 110 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: and I think that that speaks to the dynamism of 111 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: the black community, which is oftentimes a race through the 112 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: white lens that is the media, the white lens that 113 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: is entertainment and publishing in all these different spaces, as 114 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 1: if we're a monolith, but it's are from the truth. 115 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: Much of what Frederick talks about reminds me of this 116 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: idea I've heard before that a stereotype is just a 117 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: chapter in a book you haven't fully read. And as 118 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: a black man myself, I know the realities that come 119 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: with so many stereotypes constantly thrust upon us. So I 120 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: wanted to hear from Frederick what was that moment, that 121 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: aha moment that made him realize that blackness wasn't a 122 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: one size fits all. I had the privilege of going 123 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: to a performing arts elementary school in Yonkers, and you know. 124 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: I went to my first Broadway show when I was 125 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: about eight years old. I saw a Phantom of the 126 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: Opera I'll Never Forget. My grandmother and I went, and 127 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: I had to be quite frank. I don't even think 128 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: I had ever been to Manhattan, let alone to a 129 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: Broadway show. I see this play and I'm just like, 130 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: awe struck. I'm like, oh my god, like, what is 131 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: this right? Because the world that I come from, it's 132 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: just completely different. So what ends up taking place is 133 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: I'm walking out and there was this other play happening 134 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: at the exact same time it was Aida, and Aida 135 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: at the time was the star of Aida was Heather Headly, phenomenal, 136 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: phenomenal actress. And I had just came from seeing this 137 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: like brilliant show, like starring a cast of full white 138 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: people or whatever. But I'm like, there's a black show. 139 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 1: Black people don't have shows like like this, right, So 140 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: that moment switched something in me because one, I didn't 141 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: know that this world existed, and I didn't know that 142 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: black people, if this world exists, were allowed to exist 143 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 1: within that world that I didn't know existed, right, So 144 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: when I went home, it made me question all of 145 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: the constructs of blackness that were imposed upon me everywhere 146 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: I looked. Right, it was like, oh, black people have 147 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: to perform this, or have to sing this, or have 148 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: to sing that, or have to only get to do 149 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: these certain things. I'm like, well, what about Heather Heavily? 150 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: What about Heather? Yeah? What about Heather? You know, hearing 151 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: that story makes me better understand more than I did before. 152 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: Why you have a book coming out called Patriarchy Blues, 153 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: which explores as us a masculinity patriarchy from both a 154 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: personal and cultural standpoint. So why did you decide to 155 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: put this book out now? And how are your own 156 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: personal stories like the one you should before influencing that 157 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: book right now? So Patriarchy Blues is interesting because when 158 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: I my my personality is very much that like my 159 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: grandmother kind of built in me, this idea of as 160 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: long as you have the ability to use your hands 161 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: for good work, then use your hands for good work, right, 162 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: And Patriarchy Blue specifically is like aimed at myself to 163 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: a certain extent. Right, I think that a lot of 164 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: people do the easy thing of like pointing the finger 165 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: and wagging the finger at people and telling them how 166 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: they're wrong. But it takes something really special to be 167 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: vulnerable and courageous and calling yourself out about how you've 168 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: been wrong, right, And I think that that's the actual 169 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: work that people need to get to. So Patriarchy Blues 170 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: is me saying like, hey, you know, I was molested 171 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: by my babysitter from eight to ten years old, and 172 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: that put a chasm in my heart and actually made 173 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: me develop this anger towards women. And that anger ended 174 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: up evolving into becoming a womanizer in my teens and 175 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: in my twenties. That juxtaposed with living in this heteronormative, 176 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: patriarchal society, right, I was just like, oh yeah, like, oh, 177 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: I'm doing the right thing. Not only am I justified 178 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: in my pain, but I'm doing the right thing. Society 179 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: is telling me that. But what does it look like 180 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: to be in your thirties and actually say like, hey, 181 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: I've spent the last decade plus unpacking and trying to 182 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: be better than this. But I don't think that this 183 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: is just my work. This is our work, right, Like, 184 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: this is our work as a community. Um, I have 185 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: to ask you, you know, I was like a fellow, 186 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: a person that has moved to the world pretty similarly 187 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: in identity, When did you find this bravery to do 188 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: that work? What I have is my story, right, I 189 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: was like, if I have nothing else, I have my story, 190 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: my story of pain, my story of joy, my story 191 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: of agony, my story of desperate ration. And if I can, 192 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: in my words, use my pen to be vulnerable, combined 193 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: with my understanding of kind of how to market and 194 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: tell stories from that lens, then I think that you know, 195 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: my theory of changes, like people will grow? What lives 196 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: might that save? If I'm willing to do that, right, 197 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: what courage might that bring? And and I think it 198 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: just like honestly came from you know, when I was 199 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: about twenty four, I found out that I have multiples 200 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: gross is and you know a lot of things changed 201 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: at that moment where I I didn't spend all of 202 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: my late twenties drinking and party and I spent a 203 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: lot of my late twenties trying to develop the wisdom 204 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: of a man in his seventies. Right, Like, if I 205 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: was to look back on my life, if I was 206 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: to believe this earth tomorrow, what do you want your 207 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: legacy to be? And I want mine to be a 208 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: legacy of progress and healing. This road to healing reminds 209 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: me a lot about the power of truth. Often the 210 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: stories that are told to us are just as important 211 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: to the shaping of our lives as the stories we 212 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: create ourselves. I relate to this idea of truth stories because, 213 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: like Frederick, I've had an uncle pass from complications due 214 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: to HIV and was told it was cancer. I was 215 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: curious how that shaped his story, his community work, and 216 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: what his uncle represented in his life. Man, that is 217 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: that that's a nuanced story. So to tell that, I 218 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: have to first, you know, kind of talk about the 219 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: matriarch of my family, who was my grandmother, Thelma Forward. 220 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: She passed the breast cancer when I was eighteen, and 221 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: it was her second bout with breast cancer. The first 222 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: time she didn't tell anybody. The second time she said 223 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: she had a cold until she couldn't leave the hospital. Right, 224 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: there's this aspect I think, especially of certain generations of 225 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: black people, as she was from you know, once again, 226 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: she was from South Carolina, came up to the North. 227 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: She left the South because her first husband had been 228 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: lynched by the clan. That's the father of my uncle 229 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: who actually died of HIV. So just for some context, 230 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: real quick. She grew up in this hard, hard way, 231 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: like she came up hard. Right. So the way that 232 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: she has viewed not just masculinity, but the way she 233 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: viewed blackness is that it has to be as tough 234 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: as steel or else it will be bent, broken, melted down, 235 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, and then turned into bullets that will probably 236 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: be aimed at up other black people. Right. So she 237 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: was a lovely person who also didn't spend any time 238 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: with the privilege that I have of navigating what it 239 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: means to just be and not navigating what it just 240 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: means to be. She of course to navigate other people's realities, 241 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: such as homosexuality, right, And there was just the propaganda 242 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: of homosexuality, which she surface level was like, okay, surface level, 243 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: this is what I know, this is what I understand, 244 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: and this is what I don't want because she's equating homosexuality. 245 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: I'd imagine with all the things that were the opposite 246 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: of what a black person needs to survive. Right. So, again, 247 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: when you have in the seventies, eighties, nineties, these things 248 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: that are happening in the community, from the epidemic of drugs, 249 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: the epidemic of violence, so on and so forth, you 250 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: get a major usage of heroin. So my my uncle, 251 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: he was a heroin user and ultimately passed by contracting 252 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: HIV from a needle. But with the propaganda, HIV can't 253 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: be contracted with a needle from drug use, right of 254 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: course not, because HIV can only be contracted during that 255 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: time and even now I'm not gonna even just put 256 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: on that time even now. Problematically, the view is that 257 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: HIV is solely contracted through same sex acts. So ultimately, 258 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: when he did have HIV, my grandmother refused to tell 259 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: people that, right, And it wasn't just about homosexuality, it 260 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: was about everything that came along with it, I'm sure right, Like, oh, 261 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: my uncle's name was Butch. This is Butch Jr. Butch Sr. 262 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: Was murdered by the ku Klux Klan fighting back being 263 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: a revolutionary in South Carolina in the sixties. There is 264 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: no way that Butch Senior son is anything but hard, 265 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: anything but tough anything. But you know, the only thing 266 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: that could put him down is cancer, because cancer. Everybody 267 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: understands that. So so I was lied to and everybody 268 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: was lied to it and I found out actually because 269 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: I have three uncles, my uncle Butch died when I 270 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: was a preteen. My uncle Randall died during COVID. He 271 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: passed of complications with COVID. So my last uncle Mark, 272 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: he and I were going up state to collect his 273 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: brother's things and I said to him, I was like, 274 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, why is it that you know these things 275 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: happened to our family? You know, COVID cancer. He's like, oh, 276 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: who passed of cancer? Like Butch? Right? Like like Butch 277 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: passed of cancer? And he's like, he didn't pass of cancer, 278 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: he had HIV. Who told you that? Wow? Right? So 279 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: I'm dealing with having just lost an uncle of two 280 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: days before being in COVID, And now not only do 281 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: I have a reckoning of this lie in my family, 282 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: but I have to reckon with homophobia and my family 283 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: and unpacking it and just the devastating impact that had 284 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: generationally on my family, and how not navigating those waters 285 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: built systemic cultural, generational homophobia in my family that has 286 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: led you know, me and many instances to separate from 287 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: members of my family. To this day. I relate to 288 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: this so so much, and that you know, the stories 289 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: our families tell to protect us from each other and 290 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: from the world really that we have to sell these 291 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: certain versions of truth to better rationalize why something happened 292 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: to someone or how they aren't in the world and 293 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: why they are in the world. And and what I 294 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: really want to ask you about is like this idea 295 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: of lying. You know, I carried with me for many 296 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: years as a black gay guy that my family lied 297 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: to me by not telling me that my uncle died 298 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: from HIV he was gay, and I had a lot 299 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: of resentment, But lately I don't because I understand why, 300 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: being in like a more rural southern place, why they 301 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: couldn't say that word. So do you in your own 302 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: story and your own family, is calling it a lie 303 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: even useful to say because it sounds like they were 304 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: just trying to survive in this world. I think that 305 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: calling it a lie is useful because I believe in 306 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: what I call radical accountability, right, But I'm also a 307 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: restorative justice type of person. But you can't have restorative 308 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: justice without radical accountability. And radical accountability doesn't have to 309 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: be punitive, right. Radical accountability can simply be stepping towards 310 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: healing for both victims and abusers at times. Right. So 311 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: we don't come from a people you me black people globally, 312 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: Brown people globally, we don't come from cultures before colonialism 313 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: that were ingrained with such staunch homophobia or transphobia. History 314 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: shows that right. Actual research shows that it was capitalism 315 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: and white patriarchal constructs that did this. That's not lost me, 316 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: but you have to call it out and and the 317 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: reality is as assists head black man. What I also 318 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: dealt with as a kid, which played in part, I 319 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: think into this lie, was because I was molested. I 320 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: was never the kid who was like, I really like girls, 321 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm really into girls. That wasn't me. I was very 322 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: like inwardly focused or I just wanted to hang out 323 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: with boys, and I was afraid of girls. So they 324 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 1: were like in my family until I was probably sixteen, 325 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: there were rumors, oh, he must be gay. So I 326 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: think that they did everything in their power to quote 327 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: unquote make sure I wasn't gay, and then problematically and toxically, 328 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: I counteracted that by being you know, if heteronormativity exists 329 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: on a spectrum of positive and toxic, I went as 330 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: toxic as possible, because that's typically equated with being like, 331 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, in our society, as manly as possible, right, 332 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: So I went that direction and you're like, Okay, he's 333 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: a womanizer. No, he's good right, Like so yeah, so 334 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: that lie actually built the castle of all of my 335 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: pain and trauma and the traumas and pain that I 336 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: inflicted on a ton of other people. Uh. I love 337 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: that you're talking about, Like I love this kind of 338 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: complicated conversation about misogyny. For instance, that you know, due 339 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: to the own pain and violence you felt in your 340 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: own life, you overcompensated by hurting other people's I think, 341 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, my angel Lou says, hurt people, hurt people, 342 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: and that's like the truest thing in the world, which 343 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: makes me think a lot about I think about that, 344 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: and then this idea of radical accountability and it makes 345 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: me think about little Boosey and the baby and little 346 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: nos X. So let's use that as an example for folks. 347 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: How does radical accountability operate there? And how are you 348 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: seeing her people hurting people in that situation? Because that's 349 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,239 Speaker 1: what I see who But you know, I have psychoanalyze 350 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: these men so many times to myself or or in 351 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: my household, right, like, like what happened to them in 352 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: their lives that might have been similar. There's certain things 353 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: that happened to me potentially that they did not have 354 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: the privilege of overcoming or navigating, right, or maybe nothing happening. 355 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: They were just black men in the South, and you know, 356 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: capitalism rewards toxic masculinity and misogyny. But you know, with 357 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: the three of them, I've been hurt, and I'm gonna 358 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: also add Dave Chappelle to that, because I have been 359 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: hurt by the things that I've seen from them as 360 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: a fellow black man. Because what they don't realize, especially 361 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: in them saying that they want to protect children and 362 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: be pro black, is that what they're doing is actually anything. 363 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: But they're actually harming children, and they are further degredating 364 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: the black community. Right. So it not only breaks my heart, 365 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: but it is the complete contradiction of all the work 366 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: that I'm trying to do. And then because of their 367 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: platforms versus let's say, my platform, it makes that work 368 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: that much harder. I'm gonna be really honest with you, Zack. 369 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: I wrote about Dave Chappelle years ago, So to see 370 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: him doubling down, I actually started crying. I was in 371 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: the shower, just like tearing up because I looked up 372 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: to him growing up, like he was actually like a 373 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: hero of mine, because I always said that he was 374 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: punching up against white supremacy and classism in many ways. 375 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: So then he's like started becoming, you know, more famous 376 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: and more wealthy, start punching laterally, and now he's just 377 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: punching down at the most like oppressed community in the 378 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: world right, black and brown trans people and specifically black 379 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: and brown trans women. So with that being said, the 380 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: thing that hurt the most though, is that there are 381 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: these moments of potential reclamation, as you said, or radical 382 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: accountability where the people have not said, hey, we want 383 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: to cancel you, Dave. Literally, I have watched transactivists, trans 384 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: organizations say hey, can we sit down and like explain 385 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: to you what you were doing because you're such a 386 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: powerful voice, and we know that you were such an intelligent, brilliant, 387 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: brilliant person when it comes to storytelling, when it comes 388 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: to getting into hearts and minds of people, and you 389 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: would be a monstrous, devastatingly powerful being to be on 390 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: the right side of things, and Dave, instead of leaning 391 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: into that, has leaned completely out of it, and that 392 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: that hurts. And when you see people doing the wrong 393 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: thing they don't have to. It hurts so so much 394 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: because you're like, wait, you don't have to do this. 395 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: You don't have to make that decision at all. And 396 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: that's what's so frustrating with like the Dave Chappelle's and 397 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: the baby. But I want to bring it back to 398 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: you because I think you have an example in your 399 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: life right now where maybe people are doing the right thing, 400 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: and that's with a cousin of yours, correct who is 401 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: HIV positive. Talk to me about this person and kind 402 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: of how his experience may be very different than what 403 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: your uncle went through. So I actually have two cousins 404 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: who are HIV positive and their experiences are completely different. 405 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, So one of my cousins 406 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: opened up to the family that she's HIV positive in 407 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: the early two thousands, and there was still this moment 408 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: of pure ignorance. But I think that at times when 409 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: people don't realize is that a lot of black people, 410 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: all we have is our family. And I don't mean 411 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,479 Speaker 1: that hyperbolically. I mean like quite literally, for a lot 412 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: of black people, we have is our family, and in 413 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: that family you find hope. So in spite of all 414 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: of the victuals he was receiving for having HIV. You know, 415 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: she just kind of took it versus my cousin, who 416 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: is a bit younger than me. He is just a brilliant, 417 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: brilliant young man. He's just like, you know what, you 418 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: can't possibly love me in the ways in which I 419 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: need to be loved. So I'm going to step away 420 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: from all of you and only talk to those of 421 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: you who can love me for me and like the 422 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: things I'm going through. He's like, in spite of what 423 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: happened for uncle, I am gay and I did get 424 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: HIV practicing sex. He's like, and and that's not your business, right, 425 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: that is my business. You're either going to support me 426 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: or you're not. And what that forced our family to 427 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: do was this moment of radical accountability. Do you lose 428 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: your cousin, do you lose your nephew, Do you lose 429 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: your son? Or do you love them enough to break 430 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: the walls down of your ignorance? Do you have to choose? 431 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: Did you ever truly love this person or was it 432 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: all a facade within the constructs of what makes you comfortable? Yeah? Wow, wow, 433 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: wow wow? Did you ever pose that to them, Did 434 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: you ever say those words to them? So I said 435 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: all those words. I literally like convened everybody at my 436 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: house and I was like, this is it. And if 437 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: he feels like he has to walk away, I'm walking 438 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: away because what we don't want to do, Like I 439 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: very much preach from the book of accomplices and co 440 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: conspirators versus allies, right, and allies Somebody who wants the 441 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: world to be better in the complice and co conspirator 442 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: there in the trenches. So if I want the world 443 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: to be better for the lgbt Q plus community, I 444 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: gotta make myself uncomfortable, right, And that for me means like, oh, hey, Darren, 445 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that this has happened. No, no, forget that. 446 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: If Darren steps away, I'm stepping away. This Darren's not 447 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: by himself. So that's exactly what happened. I want to 448 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: talk to you about all this work you do to 449 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: give back, and like, something I read about recently was 450 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: you sending a lot of kids. I think Sissy Black 451 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: Panther a few years ago, So like, tell me about 452 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: that story, and like, why is it that like love 453 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: and joy at the end of the day, it seems 454 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: to be your driving kind of motive here. Actually have 455 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: the word love tattooed on my back. And that's a 456 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: funny story. When my grandmother was passing, she told my 457 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,959 Speaker 1: cousins and I like, all all of us, what like, 458 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: the one thing we need to focus on was when 459 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: she was going, when she was in hospice, and for me, 460 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: it was love. And I'm like, what do you what 461 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: do you mean? She's like, you know, you give a 462 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: lot of love, but you'll really be able to love 463 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: when you let people love you. And in all my pain, 464 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: you're talking about being a black kid in the eighties nineties, 465 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: without a father, growing up in poverty. My family is 466 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: decimated by the crack epidemic, decimated by the heroine epidemic. 467 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: My mother had me at eighteen. I've been molested by 468 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: my babysitter. I've watched, you know how life works in 469 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: an over police neighborhood. I didn't have a lot of 470 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: trust in being loved, right, And when I started receiving love, 471 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: allowing myself to receive love, I'm like, oh, this changes everything. 472 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: And what I want for people is for people who 473 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: I don't even know to receive love. Right. If a 474 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: stranger can do something for you. It doesn't just have 475 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: to be like, hey, if a kid lives in you know, poverty, 476 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: let's give them pencils and book bags and stuff to 477 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: have the baseline fundamental things. If I can also say, 478 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: like I want you to enjoy your life, that could 479 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: be a game change, right, Like this person I didn't 480 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: know at all wanted me to enjoy my life and 481 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: loved me despite not even knowing me. And that's kind 482 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 1: of like where all my philanthropy comes from. Loving people 483 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: radically even if you don't know them, right, just having 484 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: a love for society and mankind, loving people enough to 485 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: love themselves. How has that changed how you move to 486 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: the world, having that radical love for just strangers. Do 487 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: you see yourself walking down the street differently these days? 488 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: You know? It's interesting because I think that like both 489 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: things are juxtaposed, right, the radical love and the radical accountability. 490 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: You know, So if you do something, for example, that's 491 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: like oppressive, racist, homophobic, whatever it is, I'm gonna hold 492 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: you accountable. And it's through that accountability, like in my opinion, 493 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: like you know, where I grew up. You know, people 494 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: just get punched in your face with some nonsense. Right, 495 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: So so if I hold you accountable through like systems 496 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: of being like, hey, like you did this wrong, here's 497 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: the consequence for doing this wrong. Now. Also, you're still here, right, 498 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: You're still with us, And a lot of black people, 499 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are trans especially don't get 500 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: the privilege of growth because they're not still here with us. 501 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: So you still being here is even a privilege within 502 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: our system. So now that you are still here, you've 503 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: been held accountable. Now how are you going to grow? 504 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: And what are you gonna do with the rest of 505 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: your time? So that period is where the radical love 506 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: comes in. I can bunk you on your head with 507 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: the accountability, and then I can like hand you the 508 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: olive branch of love and be like, you know, these 509 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: two things combined will help you change the world. I 510 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: love that. I love that. So before I let you go, 511 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: I want to see if you'd be up for giving, 512 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,959 Speaker 1: you know, the audience of advice, because I think our 513 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: audience is very much people like us and and people 514 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: that like are in our community, but are definitely not 515 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: having these conversations all the time, which is a big 516 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: part of this and something you said earlier about you know, like, 517 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: trusting and letting other people love you is a big 518 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: part of loving others. What advice you have for folks 519 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: listening on the best way for them to begin that 520 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: trust fall for love? Mm hmmm. I would say that 521 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: the advices to unpack the realities of your trauma. Right, 522 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: I think that all of us living in these constructs, 523 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: I don't really I don't care what aspect of it 524 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: you live in, right, Like, whether it's able, is um capitalism, well, 525 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: whatever is um it is or obia whatever, whatever it is, 526 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: you are traumatized. And trauma is the direct adversary of love. 527 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: So as you are unpacking, unlearning, thinking about the traumas 528 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: that you not only have face with the traumas of 529 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: just being in your body when you step out of 530 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: your home or you go on Instagram, when you go 531 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter, or when you see the news, Unpacking that 532 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: and taking it out of your suitcase allows you to 533 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: put love in that suitcase, you know what I'm saying. 534 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: And and and that's been an important work for me. 535 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: And that's why I tell everybody go to therapy, because 536 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: that's where you do a lot of that unpacking. Like, hey, 537 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: take some of this out right, like and patriarch people 538 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: that said to my babysitter, who Lestlian, I wrote her 539 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: a letter and I told her, I wrote, I'm writing 540 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,479 Speaker 1: this letter so that I can let my fiance in 541 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: more right, I literally said that to her. I'm like 542 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: this because you don't own me, So I'm releasing you 543 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: of this space that you think that you occupy. I 544 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: am not confined. You were not confined. We are not 545 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: confined to this moment in time because I'm building other moments. 546 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: But I can't build those moments unless I make room 547 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: for them. Uh. I love that. I'm gonna take that 548 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: with me forever. I think that was like a an aha, 549 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: thank you for that. And you know, a lot of 550 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: what you're saying right there, and what makes that possible 551 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: is due to another thing you said is that we 552 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: are all still here and you're alife and you can 553 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: make a lot of choice is moving forward. So Frederick, 554 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here today. This has 555 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: been an incredible, incredible pleasure. You are just brilliant. I 556 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: knew it was going to be brilliant, and it was brilliant. 557 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: So thank you for showing up for this. Zach. I 558 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking the time and making the space. 559 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: This has been phenomenal, and this is it's just been 560 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: something for me going into the holiday season over the 561 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,239 Speaker 1: next few months that I'm just gonna it's gonna make 562 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: my heart full. So thank you. Our lives are collection 563 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: of stories, some that we tell often, some that we 564 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: are still learning, and others that stay hidden for good reason. 565 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: But as Frederick shows us, we are the narrator of 566 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: our lives, and no matter what chapter you are on today, 567 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: you still have the power to control the unwritten. All right, 568 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: until next time, remember to breathe, stay hydrated, and I'm 569 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: positive we can all live a healthier and happier life. 570 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: This has been in the deep stories that shape us. 571 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: Find this episode and others on the Heart Radio app, 572 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't forget 573 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: to share, rate and review if you enjoyed this conversation. 574 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,959 Speaker 1: This show is produced by Vane Chien and mastered by 575 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: James Foster. Our show researcher is John and Raggio and 576 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: our writer is Yvette Lopez. A special shout out to 577 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: our guest Predrick Joseph. I'm your host, Zach Stafford