WEBVTT - Diatoms and Diatomaceous Earth, Part 1

0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:15.200
<v Speaker 2>name is.

0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.759
<v Speaker 3>Robert Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick. And today on

0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:20.760
<v Speaker 3>Stuff to Blow Your Mind, we're going to begin a

0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:27.000
<v Speaker 3>series of episodes talking about microbial organisms called diatoms, focusing

0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.840
<v Speaker 3>both on their living biology and on the way that

0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:35.720
<v Speaker 3>their fossilized remains in mineral form have pervaded human techno,

0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.040
<v Speaker 3>history and culture. Rob I don't remember if I told

0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.360
<v Speaker 3>you this, but I actually got the idea to do

0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.559
<v Speaker 3>this episode jumping off of a sort of research tangent

0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.479
<v Speaker 3>that I ended up not going down. When we did

0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.960
<v Speaker 3>an episode on sand a few weeks back. I was

0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.239
<v Speaker 3>looking at weird different kinds of you know, sand and

0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.360
<v Speaker 3>soil on Earth, and I started thinking, actually, diatamacious earth

0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.600
<v Speaker 3>is so much weirder than people think about when they

0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.880
<v Speaker 3>go buy a canister a food grade dietamacious Earth or

0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:03.920
<v Speaker 3>get some for their garden.

0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, and I don't think i'd really ever

0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.240
<v Speaker 2>encountered it on the commercial end of things before, Like,

0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I've ever purchased a canister of this

0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.640
<v Speaker 2>stuff before, or anything like that, but I do find it.

0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I think it's great that it's a spin off of

0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.400
<v Speaker 2>our Sand episode, which I think everyone was excited for

0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.959
<v Speaker 2>and so were we. It is also, in a weird way,

0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of a continuation of our Dust series from years back. Yes,

0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.640
<v Speaker 2>a series that some people were like, how are they?

0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.040
<v Speaker 2>When are they doing episodes on Dust? Makes me so angry,

0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.920
<v Speaker 2>But people love those episodes as well. We loved researching

0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.959
<v Speaker 2>them and recording them. We're getting into that same area,

0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.160
<v Speaker 2>and I think it's a fascinating world, especially when we

0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.720
<v Speaker 2>leave behind the human perspective and we start really zeroing

0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.360
<v Speaker 2>in on what's going on at a much smaller scale.

0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.760
<v Speaker 3>So I thought we should start with the organisms before

0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:00.800
<v Speaker 3>we get to dietamacious earth. We talked about dietoms themselves.

0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:07.640
<v Speaker 3>So diatoms are microscopic, single celled, photosynthetic algae that are

0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:15.000
<v Speaker 3>notable for living inside strange, beautiful geometric cell walls that

0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:20.320
<v Speaker 3>they manufacture for themselves out of what's called opaline silica.

0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:25.880
<v Speaker 3>So essentially, these are microscopic algal life forms, photosynthesizing single

0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:33.000
<v Speaker 3>celled organisms that live in transparent or translucent silicon based solids.

0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.399
<v Speaker 3>These little houses made out of a substance very similar

0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.240
<v Speaker 3>to glass, and these glass like shells they make are

0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:45.680
<v Speaker 3>called frustules. The weird and sometimes dazzling shapes of these

0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.280
<v Speaker 3>frustules are a major reason historically that diatoms have been

0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.079
<v Speaker 3>so interesting to people since they were first observed through

0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.040
<v Speaker 3>microscopes over three hundred years ago. But diatoms are not

0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:02.520
<v Speaker 3>just some obscure biological curiosity that's pretty to look at.

0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.840
<v Speaker 3>Diatoms are everywhere, and in a sense they are tied

0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.279
<v Speaker 3>up in the life of everything on Earth. So diatoms

0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:16.519
<v Speaker 3>are found in nearly every aquatic habitat on the planet, seawater,

0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:22.240
<v Speaker 3>fresh water, icy oceans, lakes and rivers, puddles, even damp soil.

0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.239
<v Speaker 3>You can find them stuck between layers of seasonal ice

0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.720
<v Speaker 3>that accumulates in Antarctica. Like anywhere there's water, you're going

0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.960
<v Speaker 3>to find them. And so if you put a drop

0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.160
<v Speaker 3>of water from any natural water source under a microscope,

0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.840
<v Speaker 3>there'll be some exceptions, but very likely, very high odds

0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.000
<v Speaker 3>you're going to find diatoms in that water.

0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.880
<v Speaker 2>To a certain depth. That's where its nottings were.

0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:50.120
<v Speaker 3>Yes, exactly. Yeah, So some of them live as free

0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.120
<v Speaker 3>floating plankton, so they'll be floating in the water, carried

0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.240
<v Speaker 3>about by currents in the water, and others live by

0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.360
<v Speaker 3>attaching themselves to surfaces in the water, like the outer

0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.040
<v Speaker 3>surface of aquatic plant tissues. Some of the earliest images

0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.280
<v Speaker 3>of diatoms people ever recorded seeing up close through microscopes

0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.880
<v Speaker 3>were attached to plant roots, or sometimes they will just

0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.440
<v Speaker 3>stick to inorganic surfaces, the surfaces of rocks, or even

0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.760
<v Speaker 3>the surface of ice. That's a strange place to find

0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.320
<v Speaker 3>things living, but there are interesting research about thriving diatom

0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.880
<v Speaker 3>communities that live on the surface of ice or even

0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:35.440
<v Speaker 3>in between layers of ice. So individually, most diatoms I'll

0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.040
<v Speaker 3>mention a couple of exceptions, but most diatoms are too

0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.240
<v Speaker 3>small to see with the naked eye. They live on

0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.680
<v Speaker 3>the scale of micrometers, with the smallest being only a

0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.920
<v Speaker 3>few micrometers wide, which is much too small to see

0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:53.960
<v Speaker 3>without magnification, and the largest growing to a few hundred micrometers,

0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.240
<v Speaker 3>which is roughly the width of a human hair. There

0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.000
<v Speaker 3>appears to be one extreme outline, a species that came

0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.640
<v Speaker 3>across called Ethmodiscus rex, which can grow up to two

0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.040
<v Speaker 3>or three millimeters in width while still being only a

0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.800
<v Speaker 3>single cell, which is pretty crazy to think about. Obviously,

0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.159
<v Speaker 3>that one is visible with the naked eye, but most

0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.279
<v Speaker 3>of them are not. And while almost all of them

0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.880
<v Speaker 3>are too small to see without a microscope, together they

0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:26.320
<v Speaker 3>have a massive impact on the planet. So in satellite

0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.400
<v Speaker 3>photography you can see them as blooms of color in

0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.200
<v Speaker 3>the ocean from orbit, and they are major atmospheric engineers.

0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:39.440
<v Speaker 3>Diatoms by themselves are responsible for producing somewhere between twenty

0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.240
<v Speaker 3>and thirty percent of the oxygen we breathe. They are

0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:48.600
<v Speaker 3>also a major primary producer of organic material and thus

0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.240
<v Speaker 3>a base of the food web in the ocean. According

0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.200
<v Speaker 3>to a twenty eighteen paper by Agira at All in

0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.920
<v Speaker 3>scientific Reports, which I'll come back to later, diatoms by

0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.680
<v Speaker 3>themselves a count for quote, forty five percent of total

0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.640
<v Speaker 3>primary production of organic material in the sea. So diatoms

0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.880
<v Speaker 3>are just going to be making up a huge portion

0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.200
<v Speaker 3>of the base layer of the food web in the

0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.880
<v Speaker 3>world's oceans, with other major primary producers in the oceans

0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:22.440
<v Speaker 3>including cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates. According to Agira and co authors,

0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.800
<v Speaker 3>there are actually there are more than one hundred thousand

0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.280
<v Speaker 3>species of diatoms I think those are not all documented.

0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.320
<v Speaker 3>I think those would be you know, there's some estimation

0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:35.039
<v Speaker 3>involved in there, because I've seen other estimates saying that

0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.159
<v Speaker 3>there are you know, somewhere between tens of thousands and

0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.040
<v Speaker 3>millions of species of diatoms. I think we don't really

0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.320
<v Speaker 3>know exactly how many species there are, and they tend

0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.800
<v Speaker 3>to be classified according to the shapes of their frustules,

0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.320
<v Speaker 3>these these glass cases that they build for themselves and

0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.159
<v Speaker 3>live within. So some of these frustules, and we'll do

0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.960
<v Speaker 3>much more intricate description as we move on, because that's

0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:00.880
<v Speaker 3>a big part of the series, is just looking at

0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.520
<v Speaker 3>these shells, looking at the frustuls. But some of them

0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:08.760
<v Speaker 3>are roughly shaped, like zigzagging chains of squares and rectangles.

0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.320
<v Speaker 3>Some of them kind of look like pistol, like piston

0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.440
<v Speaker 3>cylinders or tubes with these perforations in them. Some look

0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.720
<v Speaker 3>like little coin purses or glass lips. Others look like colosseums,

0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.480
<v Speaker 3>weird little Roman colosseums.

0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's amazing how they can feel like this weird

0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:32.560
<v Speaker 2>mix of organic and technological and psychedelic, and it really

0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.120
<v Speaker 2>feels at times when you're looking at images of these,

0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.600
<v Speaker 2>like the machine elves have like opened up the walls

0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and allowed you to see inside reality.

0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.640
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely. There's one micrograph image I saw that looked like

0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.440
<v Speaker 3>a stone hair brush, and that shook me. I don't know,

0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.920
<v Speaker 3>It's like, what's going on with this hair brush? But anyway,

0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.640
<v Speaker 3>one of the really interesting things is that these hard

0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.440
<v Speaker 3>silicon based cell walls have a life beyond the algal

0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:05.000
<v Speaker 3>organism that lives inside them. So when diatoms die, their

0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.560
<v Speaker 3>frustules do not just disappear. They usually sink down to

0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.560
<v Speaker 3>the sediment layer below the body of water where they live,

0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.960
<v Speaker 3>and in some cases, before they can be broken apart

0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.320
<v Speaker 3>and dissolved, they pile up and accumulate and form a

0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:25.040
<v Speaker 3>kind of silica based ooze which can become fossilized together

0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:32.400
<v Speaker 3>to create a porous, low density sedimentary material called diatamite,

0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.120
<v Speaker 3>which you can think of as a soft sponge like

0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:41.120
<v Speaker 3>sort of chalky fossil rock made out of compressed layers

0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:47.200
<v Speaker 3>of these microscopic glass shells. And if millions of years

0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.600
<v Speaker 3>later you dig up layers of this mineral diatamite, you

0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.720
<v Speaker 3>grind it up into a powder, you get a well

0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:58.800
<v Speaker 3>known and extremely common utility material called diatomaceous earth.

0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.439
<v Speaker 2>Which a misleading name. I think, like I think so,

0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.720
<v Speaker 2>I think we can already say just this, this far

0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.440
<v Speaker 2>into the episode, you could more readily call this like

0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.960
<v Speaker 2>necro dust or something like it's yeah, it's a lot grizzly,

0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.000
<v Speaker 2>or you know, this is like the mass graves of

0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:18.920
<v Speaker 2>a of a of a billion billion prehistoric creatures or

0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:23.120
<v Speaker 2>life forms. Rather this is this is so it's so fascinating. Again,

0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:24.800
<v Speaker 2>you just take it for granted and you're just like, yeah,

0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I bought that, sprinkled it, don't inhale it. That's the

0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.360
<v Speaker 2>most most people think about it, usually.

0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.200
<v Speaker 3>The trillions of razor hippodromes of death. Yeah. Yeah. But

0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:39.680
<v Speaker 3>so this stuff, dietamacious earth, despite having this strange you know,

0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:45.000
<v Speaker 3>organic fossil history, has all kinds of mundane, industrial and

0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.520
<v Speaker 3>practical uses throughout history and still today. And we'll cut

0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.520
<v Speaker 3>we'll definitely come back and discuss some of these uses,

0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.640
<v Speaker 3>both historical and today, in more detail later, but just

0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.360
<v Speaker 3>to run through a few of them. Dietamacious earth is

0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.640
<v Speaker 3>commonly used as a filtration medium for liquids like oils

0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.000
<v Speaker 3>and oil water emulsions like it's used in food filtration

0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.319
<v Speaker 3>food and beverage filtration. It's used in pool cleaning devices

0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.600
<v Speaker 3>for filtration and making beverages like beer and wine. It's

0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.520
<v Speaker 3>a used as a toiletry product in like some shampoos

0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.400
<v Speaker 3>and toothpastes. I think sometimes just generally used as an abrasive.

0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.600
<v Speaker 3>It's used in some types of cat litter. I think

0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.400
<v Speaker 3>you've got something about that, Rob.

0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.400
<v Speaker 2>And worth noting too at this point that like they're

0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.880
<v Speaker 2>broadly you'll find there, you know, different classifications of it,

0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.040
<v Speaker 2>including food grade dietamacious.

0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.440
<v Speaker 3>Earth, which I don't know. I don't know if we're

0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.400
<v Speaker 3>going to vouch for that yet. I don't want to

0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.200
<v Speaker 3>cast too much doubt on it either. I just I

0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.040
<v Speaker 3>haven't made up my mind. When I think about so

0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.320
<v Speaker 3>called food grade dietamacious.

0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Earth, well, I mean that's the technical classification, I believe,

0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.959
<v Speaker 2>the industry classification for it. I don't know. Yeah, I

0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:56.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know how much we're going to go into some

0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.840
<v Speaker 2>of the more human bodied centered uses and proposed uses

0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.920
<v Speaker 2>for this stuff. As always, we'll just refer to a

0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.320
<v Speaker 2>standard caveat of check with your doctor, check with an

0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.000
<v Speaker 2>action action doctor on any questions like that.

0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I have not researched for this episode a lot

0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.640
<v Speaker 3>of these so called these medical claims about diatamacious earth.

0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.280
<v Speaker 3>But just be aware that out there there are some

0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 3>health and wellness claims about diatamacious earth that appear at

0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.080
<v Speaker 3>first glance to me to be not super well founded.

0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.200
<v Speaker 3>But maybe we can come back and look at that

0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:31.000
<v Speaker 3>in more detail later.

0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because at the same time, again, it is everywhere

0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.040
<v Speaker 2>and in all sorts of products, right, and not in

0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:37.559
<v Speaker 2>a way that should alarm.

0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.920
<v Speaker 3>You, right, totally. I don't want to be alarmist about

0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.680
<v Speaker 3>it either. I just don't want to say that all

0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:47.400
<v Speaker 3>alleged uses of it are legitimate obviously, so anyway, so

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 3>it's in all that stuff. But also it's commonly used

0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.440
<v Speaker 3>as an insecticide. I think we'll have some stuff on

0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 3>this later, like a crawling insect repellent. It's used as

0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.880
<v Speaker 3>an additive in paints and varnishes, and it even played

0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 3>a key role in the invention of dynamite. Strange story there.

0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 3>So I think it's so interesting that this stuff that

0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.240
<v Speaker 3>you can buy in bulk at the tractor supply store

0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.719
<v Speaker 3>and and like has all of these mundane roles in

0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 3>human industry. If you zoom in on the particles of

0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.080
<v Speaker 3>this stuff with a high powered microscope. You can still

0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:27.160
<v Speaker 3>see fragments of these insane xenomorphic geometric structures. Like it's

0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.520
<v Speaker 3>like you go to the tractor supply and you buy

0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.679
<v Speaker 3>a bag of smashed up microbial cathedrals and these gears

0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 3>of alien machines. It's kind of wild.

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, I was looking at various images of these things,

0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.840
<v Speaker 2>and and and again I encourage everyone out there just,

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, do your standard image start to bring up

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:49.320
<v Speaker 2>some some some some some images of these different diatoms

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.880
<v Speaker 2>and diatamacious service close ups, and you're going to be astounded.

0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:55.880
<v Speaker 2>And I was thinking, like, what do these look like?

0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.199
<v Speaker 2>What are the different vibes that I'm getting off of these?

0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 2>And so this is just a short list. I would

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 2>say I definitely get a sense of uncooked romulin pasta

0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.520
<v Speaker 2>of exploded components of a high end Swiss watch, totally

0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:15.360
<v Speaker 2>defective components from a mechanical pencil factory. Okay, some of them,

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:20.280
<v Speaker 2>especially the more colorful presentations of different diatoms that you'll find.

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 2>I get a nineteen seventies bathroom tyle mosaic at your

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Aunt Helen's house, sort of feeling.

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.120
<v Speaker 3>In just a minute. I wanted to get into some

0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.439
<v Speaker 3>reasons for some of these different colorful versus more machine

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 3>looking ones, but yeah, totally, I see that too.

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I get a sense of checks mixed prototypes for the

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.199
<v Speaker 2>International Space Station ended up not being deployed, they sent

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 2>ramen instead of something. And then also especially with some

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 2>of the colorful images rejected Dead Can Dance album covers.

0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, I like all of those descriptions. I think

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 3>they're all valid. One of the things I noticed is

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 3>that two different descriptions of yours mentioned sort of printed

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:08.679
<v Speaker 3>or human made, but like mass manufactured food products. So

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.280
<v Speaker 3>one I think when you said like romul and pasta

0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 3>uncooked pasta, you're thinking of like cut pasta shapes, like

0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, those curly cues or tubes you get rigatonies

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.520
<v Speaker 3>and things. And then you also mentioned checks like checks mix,

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.280
<v Speaker 3>and I do see both of those things. I don't

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 3>know what's significant about that, but maybe it's because you

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 3>get these at once kind of organic looking, so it's

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:37.400
<v Speaker 3>kind of food, but also mass manufactured and tool and

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 3>component looking, so it's like you know, printed foods, these

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.760
<v Speaker 3>kind of like mass made foods that are all the same.

0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, definitely, I mean definitely, you're looking at something

0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 2>that is like a lattice work, and yeah, and you know,

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 2>we can't help but compare it to some of these

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 2>various food products.

0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 3>So one thing that is interesting, if you look up

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 3>micrograph images of diatoms and of diete maacious earth, even

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:06.840
<v Speaker 3>the ones that are similarly shaped will look pretty different

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 3>depending on whether the image is produced using visible light

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 3>microscopy or by a scanning electron microscope. And I didn't

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 3>put this together until I read it mentioned in one

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 3>of the explainer pages by an ecologist and dietom researcher

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 3>named Sarah Spalding on diatoms dot org, which is actually

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 3>that's a great website maintained by a group called Diatoms

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 3>of North America. It seems like most of the articles

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 3>on here are by this researcher, Sarah Spalding. But the

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 3>author here points out that under light microscopy, most diatom frustules,

0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 3>the glass like shells on the outside of the dietom.

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 3>Most of these are going to be transparent under light microscopes,

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 3>They're going to be like glass, So this gives them

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 3>the appearance of fine crystal glassware and jewelry. Dietoms are

0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 3>often compared to jewels, and so that's one sort of

0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 3>genre of diatom imagery. Whereas under a scanning electron microscope,

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.360
<v Speaker 3>the frustule is not transparent but opaque. And I think

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 3>there could be different reasons for this. This may be

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.720
<v Speaker 3>wholly or partially do not to inherent properties of the

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 3>frustul but to how samples are pre treated for the

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 3>electron microscope. Like I think they might get some sort

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.200
<v Speaker 3>of metallic coating to make them visible under this method.

0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm not totally sure about that, but whatever the cause,

0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 3>the result is that the electron microscope highlights the shape

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 3>and the texture of the frustule itself, producing these images

0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 3>that look less elegant and subtle and transparent. There's less

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 3>of a less light and color about them, so you

0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.000
<v Speaker 3>don't get that glowing gem appearance you get with the

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 3>light microscope images. These are the ones that look more

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 3>like the gray alien gears and machinery. And so I

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 3>think it's interesting that you, of course have different kinds

0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 3>of diatoms that on their own, you know, because of

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 3>their natural biodiversity, contribute to all these different types of

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:13.080
<v Speaker 3>shapes and colors and structures you get, but also the

0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 3>different microscope methods give you very different feelings when you

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 3>look at them. Yeah, yeah, so I know, we want

0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.119
<v Speaker 3>to talk about a couple of interesting and surprising uses

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:36.639
<v Speaker 3>of diatomacious earth made from these these fossil diatoms today,

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 3>But before we do that, I wanted to talk a

0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.200
<v Speaker 3>bit more about the biology of diatom frustules and these

0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.399
<v Speaker 3>glass like structures that the diatoms live inside. So to

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 3>picture a diatom as a living organism, you have to

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 3>think about a soft inner cell that looks in some

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.919
<v Speaker 3>ways like a typical cell of algae. Though if you

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 3>think algae, you may be thinking green. Your brain just

0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 3>naturally goes there because masses of algae we see, especially

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.800
<v Speaker 3>in like freshwater sources, are often green. A lot of diatoms,

0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.320
<v Speaker 3>I think, are going to be more like. They vary,

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.440
<v Speaker 3>but a lot of them tend to be more gold

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:19.159
<v Speaker 3>or golden brown in color. And technically, historically, dietoms have

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 3>been thought of as what we're We're called protists, so

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 3>that was kind of a cash all group for single

0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:30.000
<v Speaker 3>celled eukaryotic organisms with a cell nucleus housing their main

0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.719
<v Speaker 3>genetic material, but which were not plants, and we're not animals,

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.280
<v Speaker 3>and we're not fungi, and it's like that. It is

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.879
<v Speaker 3>not any of those things. It is a photosynthesizing and

0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 3>makes its energy from the sunlight, photosynthesizing, single celled organism.

0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.479
<v Speaker 3>It does have a cell nucleus, but it's not a plant,

0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.000
<v Speaker 3>it's not an animal, not a fungus. And as we've

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 3>been talking about, one of the main things that really

0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.400
<v Speaker 3>makes a diatom unique as an organism is that this

0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 3>soft inner cell is protected by the mortified cell wall,

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.240
<v Speaker 3>this rigid glass like material made out of silica that

0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.360
<v Speaker 3>goes all the way around the frustuel Frustules are often

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:13.920
<v Speaker 3>compared to pill boxes in design, and I was trying

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 3>to unders make sure I understood this right. I think

0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.159
<v Speaker 3>I finally landed on an analogy that makes sense of

0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 3>it for me. So Rob, we'll see if this gets

0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.400
<v Speaker 3>you there. So they're often described as pillboxes because die

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 3>tomshells are typically made of two interlocking halves, which are

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 3>known as the epitheca and the hypotheca. So think of

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.400
<v Speaker 3>a box or a container with two differently sized halves,

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 3>a base and a lid. Where you close them together

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.760
<v Speaker 3>by sliding the lid down over the top of the base.

0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.639
<v Speaker 3>A common comparison used in a lot of sources to

0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.160
<v Speaker 3>describe this is a Petrie dish, But I think that's

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.680
<v Speaker 3>probably an easier point of reference for people who work

0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.120
<v Speaker 3>in labs a lot. So the best comparison I could

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 3>think of for just regular people would be the boxes

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.000
<v Speaker 3>that board games come in. So you've got two halves,

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.840
<v Speaker 3>one is slightly bigger than the other, and the lid

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.119
<v Speaker 3>fits over the base by closing over it tightly.

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me.

0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so there's an interesting fact about the interaction between

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 3>the rigid frustule which exists in these two halves and

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:27.639
<v Speaker 3>diatom reproduction, and shout out that again. I came across this,

0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.480
<v Speaker 3>I think, originally by reading explainers by the researcher Sarah

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 3>Spaulding on diatoms dot org, but I was reading about

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 3>this in a few other places. So the way it

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:42.160
<v Speaker 3>works is like this, Diatoms reproduce both sexually and asexually,

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.680
<v Speaker 3>but a lot of the reproduction is asexual reproduction. Asexual

0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:51.240
<v Speaker 3>reproduction happens when a single diatom parent cell divides in

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 3>two and makes a copy of itself. So each new cell,

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:57.360
<v Speaker 3>now you've got two cells where there once was one.

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Each new cell gets to take one half of the frustul.

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 3>So each new diatom then treats its half frustule as

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.679
<v Speaker 3>the big half and makes a smaller half of a

0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 3>frustul to close inside of it. So, to follow from

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 3>the board game box analogy, imagine that the board game

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.640
<v Speaker 3>clones itself. You know, you've got your your Monopoly game

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.959
<v Speaker 3>inside that makes a copy of itself, and each copy

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 3>of the Monopoly game takes one half of the original

0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 3>box with it. So one new one game takes the lid,

0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 3>one game takes the base.

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Might this also be like if a human were too

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 2>spontaneously clone, and then one clone got to keep like

0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.159
<v Speaker 2>the shirt and the other clone got to keep the pants, right.

0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Sure, yes, putting aside structural differences between the rigid case

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 3>and the clothes. Yeah, it's much like that if a

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.480
<v Speaker 3>human reproduced by just splitting in two and making two humans.

0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.560
<v Speaker 3>One would take the shirt, one would take the pants.

0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's a long shirt in my mind, so

0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 2>you know it's still functional.

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.399
<v Speaker 3>They're fine, okay, But now imagine Following that analogy, I

0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 3>was going to say that for the board game, now

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.760
<v Speaker 3>you've got the two new Monopoly games, and each one

0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.200
<v Speaker 3>takes the half of the box that it took as

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.439
<v Speaker 3>the lid, and it makes a new base.

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.200
<v Speaker 3>In your analogy, I think it would be that you've

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.480
<v Speaker 3>got the two humans, and one takes the shirt, one

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.879
<v Speaker 3>takes the pants, but they both use that article of

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 3>clothing as the shirt, and so now they both need

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.680
<v Speaker 3>to make a new pair of pants. Okay, but let's

0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.679
<v Speaker 3>just stick with a board game analogy for a second,

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:35.640
<v Speaker 3>so I don't get confused. So, since the lid of

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.040
<v Speaker 3>the box always has to fit over the base of

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.719
<v Speaker 3>the box, you know, and they each took half, so

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:43.119
<v Speaker 3>one of them took away a base to make into

0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 3>a new lid. This means that the dietm that originally

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.840
<v Speaker 3>took the base and treated it as the lid will

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:54.719
<v Speaker 3>have a smaller shell overall than the original parent. And

0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.240
<v Speaker 3>if that dietm divides again, one of its offspring will

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.760
<v Speaker 3>have to be even smaller, and so on and so on. Now,

0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.639
<v Speaker 3>obviously this cannot go on forever. Over the course of

0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:11.119
<v Speaker 3>a few months, diatom reproduction can result in generations dramatically

0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.359
<v Speaker 3>smaller than the original ancestor. I think this varies somewhat

0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.280
<v Speaker 3>by species, Like I think there are some species maybe

0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:20.960
<v Speaker 3>that don't really shrink like this, and others that do,

0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.000
<v Speaker 3>and they might shrink to different extents. But anyway, some sources,

0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 3>at least talking about some species, said that you can

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.680
<v Speaker 3>get more than fifty or sixty percent reductions in size

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:30.679
<v Speaker 3>in just a few months.

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Yeah, so I think the board game box

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:36.280
<v Speaker 2>analogy actually works really well here, because, yeah, if the

0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:38.720
<v Speaker 2>top of the box becomes the new bottom of the

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 2>box and this process keeps going, eventually normal monopoly becomes

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.320
<v Speaker 2>travel Monopoly, and then eventually you have a monopoly set

0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 2>inside of a matchbox or something it's too.

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:54.200
<v Speaker 3>Small to play with eventually, Yeah, exactly. So this brings

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 3>us to a question, how does a diatom reproductive line

0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 3>get big again? Well, according Dispalding, diatoms get back to

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:07.280
<v Speaker 3>their original size by entering a specialized life phase where

0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:12.639
<v Speaker 3>they create a structure called an oxospore. So, instead of

0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 3>a rigid silica shell surrounding the entire cell like you

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:22.920
<v Speaker 3>get with regular diatoms, the oxospore only has these bands

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.879
<v Speaker 3>of silica which go around it. These bands are called perizonia,

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:32.000
<v Speaker 3>and because the oxospore lacks the full shell, the oxospore

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.679
<v Speaker 3>can grow to its ideal size before kicking off the

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:39.440
<v Speaker 3>reproductive line again through cell division, which results in full

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 3>size diatoms with full size frustules. So diatom species that

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 3>shrink like this usually use sexual reproduction to reach the

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:57.159
<v Speaker 3>oxospore phase. Highly shrunken diatoms are are triggered to produce

0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:00.919
<v Speaker 3>game meats, and these game meats come buying to become

0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:05.680
<v Speaker 3>the full sized oxospore. So it's like the shrinking process

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:09.240
<v Speaker 3>that triggers the sexual reproduction. Once they get shrunken down enough,

0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 3>it's like time to reproduce sexually. So you could say

0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 3>that in some cases diatoms are sexually frustulated. Hey, I

0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 3>think I'm probably not the first person to make that one. Now,

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 3>there are some other really interesting things about diatom biology

0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 3>that I want to get into, but I think I'm

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:29.800
<v Speaker 3>want to save them for the next episode because I

0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 3>also want us to talk today about some of the

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:39.400
<v Speaker 3>bizarre properties of diatamacious earth. The fossil remnants of these organisms,

0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 3>as they are often sold in bags and were in

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:43.720
<v Speaker 3>places all around the world.

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:48.359
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Yeah, So we're going to get into into

0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:51.480
<v Speaker 2>some of these topics concerning diatamacious earth. Here. We're going

0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:57.240
<v Speaker 2>to start talking a bit about diatamacious earth as an insecticide,

0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:02.440
<v Speaker 2>as a mechanical insecticide, or as a opponent in other insecticides.

0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:04.639
<v Speaker 2>And in order to get into this, I thought we

0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:07.760
<v Speaker 2>might sci fi it up a little bit, which is,

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:10.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, an exercise we sometimes do on the podcast

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:13.000
<v Speaker 2>and also often what happens in my own mind when

0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to understand something or sort of picture it.

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 2>So bear with me. Here. It is the year ten

0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:25.959
<v Speaker 2>sixty aee, Okay, you are part of the human exploration

0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 2>mission to the exoplanet let's see Blout sixteen oh six B.

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a dry world, not altogether lifeless, but no longer

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:39.520
<v Speaker 2>harboring intelligent life as you know it. Initial scans reveal

0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:43.960
<v Speaker 2>vast deserts and gaping canyons, but also isolated valleys that

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 2>could provide protection for landed modules. So you descend into

0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:52.679
<v Speaker 2>just such a valley where ancient black pyramids whisper of

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 2>a bygone age when the world's last civilization sought refuge

0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:59.959
<v Speaker 2>in these valleys, probably doing some sort of impending catacory

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:03.640
<v Speaker 2>that eventually destroyed them. But whatever lived here once your

0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:08.480
<v Speaker 2>bioscans indicate are no longer present. This valley is now lifeless,

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.359
<v Speaker 2>and tech scans also show no evidence of the machines

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:15.480
<v Speaker 2>that your civilization purged itself off North machine descendants of

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.520
<v Speaker 2>other alien civilizations. So everything seems good to go. Time

0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:21.160
<v Speaker 2>to land. You're going to keep your suit on, of course,

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 2>but you're going to land and check it out. So

0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:27.719
<v Speaker 2>that's what you do. You set out on foot, you

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.000
<v Speaker 2>and your team, your clad and your protective armored spacesuits

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 2>complete with powered exoskeletons and all the human enhancing technology

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:40.480
<v Speaker 2>that is currently permitted by the ecclesiastical authority. You scan

0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:45.000
<v Speaker 2>again for pathogens and the scans read negative. Emboldened, you

0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:48.120
<v Speaker 2>and the team descend into the largest of the Black pyramids.

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:52.879
<v Speaker 2>The inscriptions on the walls are indecipherable, composed in an

0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:56.120
<v Speaker 2>alien text, and then on top of that degraded by

0:27:56.280 --> 0:28:00.480
<v Speaker 2>untold ians of neglect. But you can't help but try.

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 2>As you're staring at them, and as you're staring at

0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:07.399
<v Speaker 2>these inscriptions, you hardly notice that the finely etched floor

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:10.440
<v Speaker 2>of black stone has steadily given away to some sort

0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:15.080
<v Speaker 2>of fine sand or dust. And as you encounter various

0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:20.360
<v Speaker 2>statues and are captivated by these hauntingly humanoid yet drastically

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 2>supernumerary figures with various limbs and appendages, you also fail

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 2>to notice how your footfalls are stirring up all of

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:32.920
<v Speaker 2>this fine dust around you. In no time, this dust

0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>adheres to your suit in each grain of the strange

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:40.959
<v Speaker 2>dust simultaneously slices into your armor and also somehow begins

0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:44.720
<v Speaker 2>to absorb it. Suddenly, a whole host of warning lights

0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:48.600
<v Speaker 2>are blinking in your helmets heads up display. You have

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:53.680
<v Speaker 2>indicators of multiple suit apertures. You have failures going out

0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 2>on throughout the system. Your powered exoskeletal movement is completely down.

0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Biocontainment is each and then you begin to lose moisture

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:05.600
<v Speaker 2>and an alarming rate to the dry environment outside of

0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 2>your suit and to the dust particles in themselves. So

0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:15.000
<v Speaker 2>live drains from each of you, leaving behind only desiccated

0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:20.120
<v Speaker 2>corpses within perforated technological shells, which soon splinter and collapse

0:29:20.160 --> 0:29:21.360
<v Speaker 2>into shards as well.

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Sounds rough don't want to go to that planet and

0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 3>actually it kind of reminds me. I don't know, I

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:30.320
<v Speaker 3>haven't read recently to what extent this is still a concern,

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 3>but I remember years ago reading about proposed you know,

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:38.120
<v Speaker 3>crude missions for longer habitation on the Moon or maybe

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 3>in other places as well. Particularly this was with reference

0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 3>to the Moon, the idea that the that the lunar

0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:48.240
<v Speaker 3>regolith had some abrasive qualities that actually would make it

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 3>rather hard to deal with that it's like sticky and

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:53.440
<v Speaker 3>abrasive at the same time, and would be harmful to

0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:56.080
<v Speaker 3>spacesuits and you.

0:29:56.040 --> 0:29:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Know, oh yeah, yeah things. There's certainly a lot of

0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:03.200
<v Speaker 2>dust related concerns in in space exploration, including things like

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:06.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, dark what happens of dark matter or not

0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.720
<v Speaker 2>dark matter, but you know, dark dust of some sort

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 2>adheres to your suit and then is hit with solar energy,

0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:16.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, is it heat up and so forth. So, yeah,

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:18.760
<v Speaker 2>there's there's a lot we could discuss on that matter.

0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 2>But for this, for our purposes here, yeah, this is

0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 2>a little sci fi indulgence. But this is also somewhat

0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:30.520
<v Speaker 2>how diatamacious Earth acts on insects and iracnids as a

0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:33.920
<v Speaker 2>mechanical pesticide, which is to say it's not a poison,

0:30:34.000 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 2>it's not a toxin, it's not a pathogen. It kills

0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:43.240
<v Speaker 2>insects via largely physical interaction with them. For starters, what's

0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:46.560
<v Speaker 2>going on here is, as we've been discussing, ditamacious, earth

0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:50.520
<v Speaker 2>is abrasive and at the scale of insects and arachnids,

0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 2>the particles slice into exoskeletal plates like and I've seen

0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:59.160
<v Speaker 2>various comparisons online, like the teeth of a roaring chainsaw,

0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:02.880
<v Speaker 2>like yards of glass and a tornado. I mean, you

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:06.880
<v Speaker 2>pick the the comparison that sounds the grizzliest to you.

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:10.959
<v Speaker 2>And this is the This is all caused by the edges,

0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:13.760
<v Speaker 2>the sharp edges of the fossil eyed diatoms.

0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, actually, I was about to think about what is

0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:19.680
<v Speaker 3>it like crawling through and I was thinking is it

0:31:19.720 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 3>like razor blades or whatever? But I wonder to what

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 3>extent it sort of would be like crawling through glass

0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:27.360
<v Speaker 3>because in the sense this material is kind of like glass.

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you know, coming back to sand a

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:31.600
<v Speaker 2>little bit. One of the we talked about different types

0:31:31.640 --> 0:31:35.240
<v Speaker 2>of sand, different uh smoothness levels of sand in our

0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:38.840
<v Speaker 2>episode on sand, and there are certain beaches that, you know,

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I always dig in the sand of them at a beach,

0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:44.080
<v Speaker 2>and some of the rougher beaches I've been to, the

0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:45.800
<v Speaker 2>ones that are you know, where the sand is composed

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 2>of like hard invisible pieces of shells, like some of those.

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Your your hands definitely begin to feel raw after a

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 2>certain amount of digging, you know. So you know, I

0:31:56.640 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>can't I can't help but compare it to that. But yeah,

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.640
<v Speaker 2>that's what's going on here. On one level, Yes, the

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>little particles of the diatamacious earth, the fossilized diatoms, are

0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:14.400
<v Speaker 2>like cutting into the exoskeletal layer of the insects and arachnids.

0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.240
<v Speaker 2>But on top of that, the particles are also absorptive,

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 2>and they are leeching away lipids from the waxy outer

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 2>layer of the creature's exoskeleton, and this essentially unseals the

0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 2>containment suit of the insect, allowing its inner moisture to

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.440
<v Speaker 2>be drawn out of the body as well, killing the

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:39.680
<v Speaker 2>organism via dehydration sometimes referred to as enhanced dehydration. And

0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 2>so this also works to varying degrees on snail, slugs

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>and other creatures, but it's particularly hard on exoskeleton bound arthropods,

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and as such, diatamacious earth is widely used as an insecticide,

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:55.760
<v Speaker 2>the one that functions in a different way compared to

0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:59.000
<v Speaker 2>what we might think of concerning like you know, more

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 2>chemical insecticie. So again, it requires external contact with the

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 2>organism to work, So it has to be applied in

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:09.520
<v Speaker 2>a way that will coat the organism, cause it to

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 2>be coated, or work as a barrier to prevent the

0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:15.880
<v Speaker 2>organism from crossing it like almost like a magical magic

0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>circle spelled out in salt to keep a demon at bay.

0:33:19.760 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 2>And indeed, salt is also used as a mechanical pesticide.

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:26.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, it draws the moisture out of bodies of

0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 2>certain pests or perceived pests. And also again it's mechanical

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 2>and therefore widely regarded as safe for humans and animals

0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 2>that don't have exoskeletons. Again, even coming in food grade forms,

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:44.080
<v Speaker 2>so you know it can be used. It's often used

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:48.560
<v Speaker 2>in agricultural settings and so forth. Now that's not to

0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:51.040
<v Speaker 2>say dietamatious earth can't hurt you it. You know, it

0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 2>certainly can be harmful if inhaled, it can irritate the

0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>eyes and other tissues. Obviously the large quantities rule is

0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:01.840
<v Speaker 2>in place for this as well, but it's not going

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:03.680
<v Speaker 2>to eat through your skin and turn you into a

0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 2>money right, And so yeah, on one level, ditamatious earth

0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 2>can work like this is an insecticide on its own,

0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:13.880
<v Speaker 2>but it also is apparently sometimes added to pesticide mixtures

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:18.160
<v Speaker 2>as well. And I've also read that it's it's very

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:21.400
<v Speaker 2>versatile in the ways you can use it as an

0:34:21.600 --> 0:34:25.840
<v Speaker 2>as an insecticide or an insect barrier, you know, sprinkling

0:34:25.840 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 2>it here, putting it in hard to reach places, and

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 2>so forth.

0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:32.520
<v Speaker 3>Trying to imagine up close, the magnified view of it

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:36.520
<v Speaker 3>working as a mechanical insecticide, I think is made especially

0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:40.799
<v Speaker 3>grizzly if you're looking at the like scanning electron microscope

0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:44.880
<v Speaker 3>images of it, and you're seeing all these little sharp

0:34:44.920 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 3>looking shards of these fossil shells, you.

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Know, Yeah, pieces looks like shrapnel exactly.

0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, These pieces of the colosseums, these pieces of the

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:57.880
<v Speaker 3>old fences, and all this mechanical looking It's like the

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.880
<v Speaker 3>world the terminators come from. It's just like piled up

0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:05.399
<v Speaker 3>scraps of things that look mechanical and things that look

0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:08.239
<v Speaker 3>organic all mixed together, but it all looks sharp, it

0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:09.439
<v Speaker 3>all looks like it would hurt.

0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:22.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now we've already touched a little bit on the

0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:26.920
<v Speaker 2>history of diatoms and anti diatamacious earth in terms of

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 2>our understanding of diatoms, and we're going to come back

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.360
<v Speaker 2>to that in the next episode as well. But I

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:35.160
<v Speaker 2>was curious about just how far back the use of

0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:39.799
<v Speaker 2>diatamacious earth, particularly as a pesticide, really goes. And one

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.320
<v Speaker 2>source I was looking at is Diatamacious Earth for Pest

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Control by William Quarrels. This was published in The IPM

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Practitioner back in nineteen ninety two and citing a nineteen

0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:56.520
<v Speaker 2>seventy two work by one F. Allen. The author here

0:35:56.560 --> 0:36:00.279
<v Speaker 2>mentions the possibility that the use of diatamatious earth as

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:03.600
<v Speaker 2>an insecticide might date back some four thousand years to

0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:06.360
<v Speaker 2>late Neolithic or early Bronze Age China.

0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Wow, I had no idea. I hadn't read anything about this. Yeah.

0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:13.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it wasn't able to uncover a ton here.

0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 2>So I'd definitely take this with a grain of fossilized

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:20.600
<v Speaker 2>diatom because this is not I don't know that this

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:24.600
<v Speaker 2>is something one can really put any hard numbers behind.

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:29.080
<v Speaker 2>But supposedly humans may have picked up on this. Ancient

0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:31.360
<v Speaker 2>humans may have picked up on this practice by observing

0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 2>birds engaging in dust baths.

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Huh.

0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:40.680
<v Speaker 2>So I believe we've all observed birds taking a dust

0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:45.319
<v Speaker 2>bath before. Certainly, if you have chickens, or you just

0:36:45.320 --> 0:36:47.719
<v Speaker 2>do a lot of bird watching, you may have observed this.

0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've seen this, Joe. There used

0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>to be a dusty place in my backyard and I

0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:56.200
<v Speaker 2>would sometimes catch birds in there. I'd see movement flapping.

0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:58.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what's going on? And it's just a bird

0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:00.840
<v Speaker 2>in there, just flapping around in the dust, just flinging

0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:04.360
<v Speaker 2>dust everywhere and then flying away when I get too close.

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:08.000
<v Speaker 3>Interesting. Well, I mean I would immediately start thinking, what's

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 3>that for? Why is it doing that?

0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because it seems it seems ridiculous, right, like a bath,

0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:15.239
<v Speaker 2>you don't take it in dust. You take a bath

0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:17.960
<v Speaker 2>to get rid of dust. What possible good comes of

0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:24.000
<v Speaker 2>taking a bath in dust? And basically it comes down

0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:29.560
<v Speaker 2>to individual pest control. And it's interesting because it does

0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:33.120
<v Speaker 2>seem to play a little bit. It seems like dietamacious

0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:35.799
<v Speaker 2>earth and the function of diatamatious earth does play a

0:37:35.800 --> 0:37:39.440
<v Speaker 2>little bit into what's happening with particularly avian dust baths.

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.200
<v Speaker 2>There are non birds that do something like a dust bath.

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 2>But for purposes here, we're going to be looking at

0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:47.840
<v Speaker 2>the birds. I look to a paper and this is

0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:50.160
<v Speaker 2>a really recent one. This came out March of twenty

0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:53.640
<v Speaker 2>twenty six in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 2>USA by Kuo at All, titled Mechanics of Dust Bathing

0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:02.600
<v Speaker 2>and Birds. One of the things that they point out

0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:06.719
<v Speaker 2>is that this is an area the actual mechanics of

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 2>what's going on here has long been kind of poorly understood.

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 2>We see birds doing it, but do we really know

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:17.319
<v Speaker 2>what's actually happening. I've read elsewhere that dust baths may

0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 2>actually mechanically impact parasites such as mites via dehydration, along

0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.160
<v Speaker 2>the same lines as what we're talking about with ditamacious earth.

0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:31.640
<v Speaker 2>But Kuo it All focused mostly on wing flapping powered

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:35.400
<v Speaker 2>substrate interaction. Now what does that mean. I'm just going

0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to read a quote from the paper here because I

0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 2>think this sums it up nicely.

0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:39.000
<v Speaker 3>Quote.

0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Collision modeling indicates that the impact force from sand particles

0:38:43.440 --> 0:38:49.440
<v Speaker 2>exceeds MTE adhesion forces. Thus collision is the dominant removal mechanism.

0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Mites are removed within seconds when sand is present, suggesting

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:57.560
<v Speaker 2>that sand plays an active mechanical role in parasite dislodgments.

0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:01.800
<v Speaker 2>So a bird gets in the dust, starts just whipping

0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.880
<v Speaker 2>that dust all around themselves, and what is happening is

0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:09.760
<v Speaker 2>those little particles, particularly if its stand like apparently there's

0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:15.440
<v Speaker 2>like boulders smashing into mites and knocking them physically, mechanically

0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:19.719
<v Speaker 2>knocking them off of the feathers of the birds. So

0:39:20.280 --> 0:39:25.799
<v Speaker 2>that's pretty crazy. Now, did humans use dietamacious earth in

0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:29.960
<v Speaker 2>ancient times based on the observation of avian dust baths? Again,

0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that we really know an answer to this.

0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:35.000
<v Speaker 2>I suppose it's possible, maybe even likely, But as the

0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:37.600
<v Speaker 2>researchers point out, again, the mechanics of what's going on

0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:41.000
<v Speaker 2>have been at best poorly understood. But there's all sorts

0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:43.200
<v Speaker 2>of things about the natural world that humans picked up

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 2>on because we observed our animal relatives doing something, and

0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:51.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, on some level we understood that they had

0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:56.239
<v Speaker 2>developed those methods and those acts and those practices and

0:39:56.239 --> 0:40:01.880
<v Speaker 2>those habits because they did something that it was useful

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:02.719
<v Speaker 2>to them.

0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I guess one thing to think about is

0:40:05.200 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 3>that dietamacious earth has a different anti insect or anti

0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:14.600
<v Speaker 3>arachnid mechanism than the sand, and this example does like

0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:19.560
<v Speaker 3>it's knocking off the external parasites, whereas if it was

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:22.080
<v Speaker 3>dietamacious Earth, what you would probably be thinking it was

0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 3>doing was like eventually killing them so that they die

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:26.279
<v Speaker 3>and fall off right.

0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:30.160
<v Speaker 2>And it's possible given I think it's possible, given different

0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:36.759
<v Speaker 2>components in different dust or sands, that you could have

0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:40.880
<v Speaker 2>some combination of things going on in a dust bath.

0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:44.240
<v Speaker 2>But again, I don't know that we really have everything

0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:47.239
<v Speaker 2>completely squared away on what's going on with an avy

0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:51.080
<v Speaker 2>and dust bath. But when it comes to say, chickens

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:54.840
<v Speaker 2>chicken farmers, I was reading online. I saw some various

0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:57.520
<v Speaker 2>threads about this. Chicken farmers seem to go back and

0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:02.040
<v Speaker 2>forth on whether you should add iotamacious earth to like

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 2>the to like the dust bath portion of a chickens

0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:09.759
<v Speaker 2>living area. Some people are like, yeah, do it, Others

0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:12.640
<v Speaker 2>are like no, no, no, don't do it. They go

0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:14.720
<v Speaker 2>back and forth on it. But there's some some people

0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:18.040
<v Speaker 2>argue that it helps them get rid of their own mites.

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:20.359
<v Speaker 3>But we're not making a call on that.

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not making a call on I'm just saying there

0:41:22.760 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 2>there is discussion out there on this topic. Now, coming

0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:30.759
<v Speaker 2>back to that paper by Quarrels, he also points to

0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.680
<v Speaker 2>some of the more recent history in the US regarding

0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:38.400
<v Speaker 2>the use of diatamacious earth and things like It. Points

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:41.400
<v Speaker 2>out that road dust was just was observed killing cotton

0:41:41.440 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 2>worms as early as eighteen eighty, points out that until

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen fifties, clay dust, sand, and silica jel were

0:41:50.400 --> 0:41:55.880
<v Speaker 2>more popular test materials than diatamite, and then insects he

0:41:56.000 --> 0:42:00.320
<v Speaker 2>lists controlled by different dusts up to nineteen fifteen included

0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:05.719
<v Speaker 2>the oriental fruit moth, the coddling moth, larva, flea beetles,

0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:11.400
<v Speaker 2>cucumber beetles, cockroaches, Mexican bean beetle larva, and stored grain pests.

0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:17.000
<v Speaker 3>So there is a even before targeted use by diatamacious earth,

0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:20.640
<v Speaker 3>there was a more general practice of using various types

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 3>of dust or other mineral grains, even sand in some cases,

0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:29.760
<v Speaker 3>to repel or harm insects that were considered pests.

0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.879
<v Speaker 2>Right right. He writes that quote dusts in general are

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:37.480
<v Speaker 2>repellent to insects, and he provides an overview of some

0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:40.120
<v Speaker 2>of the different findings that existed at this time. Basically,

0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:46.080
<v Speaker 2>different experimentations entailed different types of diatamacious earth, for instance,

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:52.080
<v Speaker 2>looking at ditamacious earth of marine origin and freshwater origin.

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Also different experiments with silica gel grain size sometimes factors

0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.799
<v Speaker 2>into how effective or ineffective it's seem to be. But

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:05.319
<v Speaker 2>also different insects seem to have different vulnerability levels to

0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:06.720
<v Speaker 2>dietamacious earth.

0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:08.279
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, and.

0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:10.760
<v Speaker 2>This makes sense because again we're talking about a physical

0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:14.120
<v Speaker 2>interaction here between these little tiny shards and some sort

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:20.120
<v Speaker 2>of surface. So more vulnerable include large surface area to

0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:24.480
<v Speaker 2>volume ratio insects, and this generally means smaller insects.

0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:28.200
<v Speaker 3>Because as you scale up, your volume increases cubically.

0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Right, Plus insects that have lots of he calls it

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:36.040
<v Speaker 2>body here. We know it's not quite here, but you know,

0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:39.600
<v Speaker 2>if an insect has lots of little things on it,

0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:42.640
<v Speaker 2>like hair that can pick up particles, that can grab

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:47.760
<v Speaker 2>onto particles, that also makes them more vulnerable. Thinner layers

0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:50.239
<v Speaker 2>as well can play into this. You know, again we're

0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:55.520
<v Speaker 2>talking about physical interaction. The thinner the armor, the more susceptible,

0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:58.239
<v Speaker 2>the easier it's going to be for something to breach it.

0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 2>And he also writes, quote insects such as the cockroach

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:07.200
<v Speaker 2>that is protected by a low melting grease are more

0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:13.360
<v Speaker 2>susceptible than insects with hardened, waxy cuticles. Now less vulnerable

0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:19.279
<v Speaker 2>include smoother beetles like the confused flower beetle. Insects that's

0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:21.920
<v Speaker 2>that's a type of beetle. Yeah, yeah, I didn't. I

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:23.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't do a deep dive on this, but that is

0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:27.279
<v Speaker 2>at least the common name for it. Insects with thick cuticles,

0:44:27.960 --> 0:44:31.400
<v Speaker 2>and they are also less vulnerable likewise, and then also

0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:35.719
<v Speaker 2>sucking insects that are constantly obtaining water by feeding on vegetation,

0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:39.640
<v Speaker 2>they're just going to be my understanding, they're moister compared

0:44:39.680 --> 0:44:44.319
<v Speaker 2>to say, dry grain feeding insects. Again, these are going

0:44:44.360 --> 0:44:46.800
<v Speaker 2>to be less vulnerable. So yeah, you can have a

0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:50.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of variability in exactly what kind of dietamacious earth

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:55.600
<v Speaker 2>you're you're using, and then what kind of insect is

0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:57.840
<v Speaker 2>on the receiving end of it, what kind of insect

0:44:57.960 --> 0:45:01.960
<v Speaker 2>or i racnet exoskeleton bound organism is on the receiving

0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:03.440
<v Speaker 2>end of your sand.

0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.120
<v Speaker 3>There is such a honey, I shrunk the kid's quality

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:09.319
<v Speaker 3>to this of the you know, the horrors that you

0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:11.880
<v Speaker 3>don't even really think about because of the scale on

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:15.480
<v Speaker 3>which you exist, and trying to imagine all of the

0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:19.719
<v Speaker 3>different ways the world is threatening. This reminds me of

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:21.520
<v Speaker 3>I feel like I've mentioned it on the show a

0:45:21.560 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 3>million times. At this point, I'm always thinking about it.

0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:26.640
<v Speaker 3>But the classic JBS Halliday and essay on being the

0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:30.319
<v Speaker 3>right size, which has to do in part with the

0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:35.640
<v Speaker 3>different physical forces that act on you most and represent

0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:39.120
<v Speaker 3>the most threat to you when you are different sizes,

0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:42.759
<v Speaker 3>so that like we at the size we are do

0:45:42.880 --> 0:45:45.440
<v Speaker 3>not really have to worry that much about the surface

0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:48.480
<v Speaker 3>tension of water as a physical force that can destroy us.

0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:51.600
<v Speaker 3>But like you know, a small insect that can get

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.200
<v Speaker 3>overwhelmed by a droplet of waters, like the surface tension

0:45:55.239 --> 0:45:58.520
<v Speaker 3>of water is a much more threatening physical force to

0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 3>very small creatures, whereas we really have to worry about gravity,

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:04.640
<v Speaker 3>and tiny insects don't have to, you know, like falling

0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:08.879
<v Speaker 3>for a tiny insect is not nearly as threatening. And

0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 3>that essay also includes, I think the part about how

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:15.560
<v Speaker 3>you know if a mouse falls down a mind shaft,

0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:21.000
<v Speaker 3>it bounces, a human is broken, a horse splashes. Yeah,

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.560
<v Speaker 3>but you know the counterpoint to that is like dietamacious

0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:27.719
<v Speaker 3>earth could maybe be like a lung or eye irritant

0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:29.279
<v Speaker 3>to us, Like you wouldn't want to get it on

0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.520
<v Speaker 3>your sensitive mucous membranes in certain ways. And you know,

0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:35.040
<v Speaker 3>it's not like completely harmless.

0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:36.680
<v Speaker 2>But you wouldn't want to swim in at Scrooge McDuck

0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:37.640
<v Speaker 2>style or riding.

0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:40.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it's not like completely harmless, but you mostly

0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:44.040
<v Speaker 3>don't have to worry about these these tiny razor gears

0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:47.480
<v Speaker 3>from the ancient diatoms. But for if the wrong kind

0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:50.080
<v Speaker 3>of insect, this is just a valley of thorns. It

0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:51.200
<v Speaker 3>is just this terror.

0:46:51.640 --> 0:46:54.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for the wrong sort of insect, like a line,

0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:57.200
<v Speaker 2>like a sprinkled line of this stuff is just a

0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.480
<v Speaker 2>barrier of death that they either will die in attempting

0:47:00.480 --> 0:47:02.879
<v Speaker 2>to cross, or they just cannot cross. They just will

0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:15.560
<v Speaker 2>say no, I want none of it. All right, Well

0:47:15.600 --> 0:47:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna leave it off there. But you know, as

0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:20.760
<v Speaker 2>with any of this, I'd love to hear from anyone

0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:26.200
<v Speaker 2>out there who has experience using dietamacious earth, particularly as

0:47:26.239 --> 0:47:30.280
<v Speaker 2>a pesticide or chicken farmers right in. I want your

0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:33.319
<v Speaker 2>opinion on all of this that the chicken farming world

0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:37.600
<v Speaker 2>is mostly new to me. I had some chicken stay

0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:40.160
<v Speaker 2>in my backyard once, like over the course of a weekend.

0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:42.239
<v Speaker 2>They were guests. I don't know what they were up

0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:46.839
<v Speaker 2>to aside from just pooping everywhere, but yeah, I didn't

0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:49.080
<v Speaker 2>get a lot of insight into what they wanted when

0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:50.320
<v Speaker 2>it came to a dust bath.

0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:53.240
<v Speaker 3>Man. You know, just last night I had an interesting

0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:57.960
<v Speaker 3>experience with some overwhelming bird poops and aarreos. I was

0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:00.239
<v Speaker 3>about to go out paddling on the river last night

0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:02.360
<v Speaker 3>after work, and I just happened to be standing in

0:48:02.360 --> 0:48:05.000
<v Speaker 3>a place right under a part of the bridge where

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:08.719
<v Speaker 3>there are many many swallow nests up above, and I

0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:11.400
<v Speaker 3>was just noticing, noticing, like, man, I just put my

0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:13.879
<v Speaker 3>kayak down, and suddenly there's bird poop on it. Oh

0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:17.279
<v Speaker 3>there's more, Oh there's more. What's going on? And then

0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:19.520
<v Speaker 3>I realized all around me it was just a it

0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 3>was just a yeah, a frenzy.

0:48:21.640 --> 0:48:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it can be quite overwhelming at times.

0:48:24.640 --> 0:48:26.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know if they all try to poop

0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:28.719
<v Speaker 3>on purpose at the same time. Is that a thing?

0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I had similar thoughts. In the last week, I was,

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:32.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was up in Denver with with my

0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:35.759
<v Speaker 2>family and we did some walks, and you know it,

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.359
<v Speaker 2>I encountered this pretty much wherever I go, wherever there

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.800
<v Speaker 2>are you know, geese, But geese will just poop everywhere.

0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:45.600
<v Speaker 2>And I was wondering, It's like, do they prefer to

0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 2>poop on human walkways? And at first I was I

0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:52.279
<v Speaker 2>was entertaining that idea, and then I was really noticed, like, no,

0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.279
<v Speaker 2>they're just pooping everywhere. I don't think they really have

0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:58.080
<v Speaker 2>a preference, but but I don't know this would be

0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:00.680
<v Speaker 2>this This kind of gets an to something we're going

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:02.920
<v Speaker 2>to be talking about in the next episode when we

0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:04.799
<v Speaker 2>get into a little bit into cat litter and talk

0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:08.160
<v Speaker 2>about dietamatious or within cat litter. But it's possible sometime

0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 2>down the line we should do an episode on where

0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:15.640
<v Speaker 2>to poop and where to urinate and how animals decide

0:49:16.600 --> 0:49:19.080
<v Speaker 2>what is the approximate place to do this, Like what

0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:22.560
<v Speaker 2>sort of material or environment should I do it in?

0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:26.279
<v Speaker 2>Where should I do it in terms of like you know,

0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:28.680
<v Speaker 2>top or bottom of a tree, that sort of thing.

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 2>There are a number of just a number of examples

0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:34.960
<v Speaker 2>that come to mind that are that are pretty fascinating.

0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:38.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, even in a captive environment. You know, we'll

0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:42.040
<v Speaker 2>see in situations where the animal will choose, like a

0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:44.759
<v Speaker 2>gecko will always have one particular corner in which it

0:49:44.800 --> 0:49:47.279
<v Speaker 2>does its business. And I'm sure everyone out here, you know,

0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.520
<v Speaker 2>certainly pet owners and people who raise animals can can

0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:52.640
<v Speaker 2>think of various examples of this as well. But anyway,

0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:53.960
<v Speaker 2>it might be something we could come back to in

0:49:54.000 --> 0:49:54.840
<v Speaker 2>a future episode.

0:49:55.080 --> 0:49:58.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, cross species investigation of bathroom strategies, I think would

0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:03.239
<v Speaker 3>would be good. Okay, Well, as we've said, next time,

0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:06.040
<v Speaker 3>we're going to get into more. We'll talk about cat letter,

0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:10.279
<v Speaker 3>probably talk about dynamite, probably talk about more dietm biology,

0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:15.359
<v Speaker 3>and plenty more. So join us again next time.

0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:18.799
<v Speaker 2>All right. Just a reminder to everyone out there that

0:50:18.880 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and

0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:24.880
<v Speaker 2>culture podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short

0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:27.520
<v Speaker 2>form episode on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set aside

0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:29.680
<v Speaker 2>most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film

0:50:30.120 --> 0:50:34.720
<v Speaker 2>on Weird House Cinema. You can find our podcast wherever

0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 2>you get audio podcasts and wherever that happens to be

0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.000
<v Speaker 2>a rate, review, and subscribe. Also be aware that there's,

0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:44.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, a huge backlog of episodes in there, huge

0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:47.960
<v Speaker 2>vault of episodes we've recovered, we've covered over the years.

0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:52.160
<v Speaker 2>You'll find topics like dust and sand and so forth.

0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:58.320
<v Speaker 2>If you are on Netflix watching us, the back catalog

0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:00.880
<v Speaker 2>is only going to go so far because this is

0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:04.080
<v Speaker 2>adding the video is relatively new. But we'll just remind

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.400
<v Speaker 2>you that you can find all of these additional episodes

0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:09.400
<v Speaker 2>in audio format where you get your audio podcast, but

0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:12.279
<v Speaker 2>wherever you listen to us, watch us, whatever. Do what

0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:17.440
<v Speaker 2>you can to help us out with star ratings, thumbs up, subscribing,

0:51:17.760 --> 0:51:18.880
<v Speaker 2>whatever the case may be.

0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:21.839
<v Speaker 3>Subscribing most important. Yeah, if you want to get more,

0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:25.000
<v Speaker 3>please subscribe wherever you listen and wherever you watch on Netflix.

0:51:25.040 --> 0:51:27.960
<v Speaker 3>I think the button click is remind me, remind me

0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:32.640
<v Speaker 3>for the It sounds kind of ominous, though, doesn't it

0:51:32.680 --> 0:51:37.439
<v Speaker 3>remind me? I don't know why? Okay, anyway, huge thanks

0:51:37.480 --> 0:51:41.040
<v Speaker 3>as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If

0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:42.799
<v Speaker 3>you would like to get in touch with us with

0:51:42.920 --> 0:51:45.239
<v Speaker 3>feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a

0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:47.319
<v Speaker 3>topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:49.880
<v Speaker 3>can email us at contact at Stuff to Blow Your

0:51:49.920 --> 0:51:57.920
<v Speaker 3>Mind dot com.

0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of heart Radio.

0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:03.840
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:52:04.000 --> 0:52:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:25.840
<v Speaker 1>M