1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: The Library of Congress is the largest library in the world. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: It's led by Carla Hayden, the Librarian of Congress. She's 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: unique because she's the first woman to be library in Congress, 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: the first African American to be Library in Congress, and 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: also one of the first librarians to be library in Congress. 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: I had a chance to sit down with her recently 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: to hear her story and how she's trying to open 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: up the Library of Congress to all Americans. So why 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: does Congress need a library? Can't they just use the 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: regular library other people have. Why do they need their 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: own library? 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: Well, Congress, and think about this. In eighteen hundred, a 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: new nation, a new legislative body, there was the thought 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: that they needed some reference books, and they were mainly 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: law books. The first books that were purchased about six 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: hundred books. And that's how the Library of Congress really started. 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: Think of the name the Library of Congress. So it 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: is a reference and research tool for Congress. And they 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: knew that because they have parliamentary libraries and they knew 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: about those types of things, so they knew that as 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: legislators they might have to refer. 22 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Now in twenty twenty four. The Library of Congress is 23 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: much bigger than it was when we first started eighteen hundred. 24 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: But is it really properly named the Library of Congress 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: now because it isn't more than just a library for 26 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: congressmen and women. 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's evolved, and over time it evolved into not 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: only the reference tool for Congress. And there's still about 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: five hundred experts in just about every field that are 30 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: dedicated to being the researchers and nonpartisan experts for Congress. 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: And that's still there, but the library has expanded to 32 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: serve the people that Congress serves. 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: So now it is. 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: The largest library in the world, with one hundred and 35 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: seventy eight million items, and it serves everyone. 36 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 3: Now. 37 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: The only people who can actually check out materials in 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: the traditional sense are members of Congress and their staff members. 39 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: But members of the public, the general public, can come 40 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: into the Library of Congress's facilities and use materials on site. 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: Let's suppose I am a person who wants to use 42 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: the Library Congress for research and I need some books 43 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: I want to take home to read them at home. 44 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: I cannot do that if I'm a regular, you. 45 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: Could not do that. 46 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: What you could do and what many libraries, public libraries, 47 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 2: and university and college libraries throughout the United States and 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: even in some international facilities. The Library of Congress will 49 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: loan materials to another library and a patron could look 50 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: at the materials right there, but they couldn't take them home, 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: but they could look at them in their own library. 52 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so what does the Library Congress actually do? 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: Now? 54 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: The Library and of Congress is basically the CEO of 55 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 2: the entire enterprise, and that includes the US Copyright Office. 56 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: The Library of Congress in eighteen seventy became the administrative 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: operation and really the main manager of the US copyright system. 58 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: That's also how the library collection grew because when you 59 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: register for copyright whatever it is, you are required to 60 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: deposit too copies of whatever it is now that could 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: be wallpaper, video games, but books. And when the Library 62 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: of Congress became the administrator of the copyright system, they 63 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: were able to then select from deposits and the collection 64 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: really grew. 65 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: So we've had the Library of Congress who started in 66 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred. Many women have been librarians of Congress before you. 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: I'm their first female Library of Congress since eighteen oh two. 68 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: So the library itself was established the law books in 69 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: eighteen hundred, and then in eighteen oh two there was 70 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 2: a thought, well, we need somebody to manage this, and 71 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: that's when the first Librarian of Congress was appointed. 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: How many African Americans have been Library of Congress before you? 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: That's also me and so I'm a twofer in terms 74 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: of that. So there haven't been any people of color 75 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: or females, And it's interesting the most one of the 76 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: most unusual parts of being in the position is the 77 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: fact that I'm a female, because librarianship is one of 78 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: what they call the four feminized professions, where eighty five 79 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: to ninety percent of the people who work in the 80 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: institution are female, but the top management doesn't reflect that. 81 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: So is there a library that's bigger than the Library 82 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: of Congress anywhere in the world? Does any country have 83 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: a bigger collection of books than the Library of Congress. 84 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 2: We've just been designated in the Guinness Book of World 85 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: Records as the largest library in the world, and our 86 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: closest competitor, and it's really not a competition, is the 87 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: British Library. That's the National Library of Great Britain, and 88 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: we have a friendly kind of rivalry, but in terms 89 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: of number of items, and we definitely are the largest. 90 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: So you have more than books. You have regular books, 91 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: you have comic books, you have maps, you have manuscripts, so. 92 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: Photographs, film, all types, any format. 93 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: Let me ask you today, almost everything is digitized, it seems, 94 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: so why do we really need libraries since you can 95 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: just go on a computer and get everything. Do you 96 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: really need to keep all these books? Why not just 97 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: digitize them and then say thank you? 98 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: There are so many items that have not been digitized 99 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: and might not ever be digitized. When you think about 100 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: the diaries of Theodore Roosevelt. The Library Congress has the 101 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: papers of twenty three presidents from George Washington to Coolidge. 102 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 2: There will still be analog materials that could be digitized, 103 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: but will be in analog form and books. Even though 104 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: you can get things in digital form, there are still 105 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: people and there still will be an appetite for a 106 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 2: physical item. But the future is definitely digital, and so 107 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: libraries like the Library Congress, British Library, all libraries are 108 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 2: making sure that they have the infrastructure to be able 109 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: to get materials that are born digital. And so we 110 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: have quite a bit of materials that are coming in. 111 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: They never are in analog form. They're coming straight in 112 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 2: digital film and we're able to circulate. 113 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: Them as we talk. Now, what do you think you 114 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: have done in your period of time eight years or 115 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: so to open up the library to the average citizen 116 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: more than was done before, specifically with respective children. What 117 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: have you done well? 118 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: We've started to be a card member to use the 119 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: eighteen reading rooms of the library. 120 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 3: Cards will have to be sixteen. It's a card. 121 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: It's a reader's card to give you access to the materials, 122 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: to say that you're responsible in that even though you 123 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: can't check them out. It's to have a record of 124 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: who's coming in and to do that. What we've done, though, 125 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: is to expand the offerings that we have for young people. 126 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: We have a Young People's Ambassador for Literature, We have 127 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: literacy programs. 128 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: And you've been involved in. 129 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: Giving actual awards to literacy groups that help young people 130 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: learn how to read. And so the offerings that we 131 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: have for young people people have expanded greatly. 132 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: Literacy is a big problem in the United States. I 133 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: think fourteen percent of adults are functioning illiterate, which means 134 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: they can't read past the fourth grade. Level, that's a 135 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: large percentage of the population. Nothing the Library of Congress 136 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: can do can completely solve that problem. But are you 137 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: surprised at how many people still cannot read in this country? 138 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: And how many people have another problem called illiteracy or 139 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: literacy which means they can read, but they don't choose 140 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: to read. They don't and is that a growing problem? 141 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: And that's it's a challenge with the digital age because 142 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: people are they're reading on tablet, so we do count 143 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: that as reading. If you have an ebook, you're reading 144 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: the book. And I've been often asked if I'm listening 145 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: to a book, are you reading? 146 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 3: Does that count? 147 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 2: But there is a concern that the amount of reading 148 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: actual texts that people are doing is diminishing. And so 149 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: how do you work with other organizations? So the Library 150 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: Congress connects to public library school libraries and we do 151 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: joint programming with them because there is an opportunity for 152 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: us to let people know and to make reading more interesting. 153 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: So literacy is a challenge for sure, But in the 154 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: libraries around the country, our libraries being used more and 155 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: more because people can't afford to buy books, or are 156 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: they being used because it's a good place to gather 157 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: where it's quiet. Why don't we actually have all these 158 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: thousands of libraries anymore? When people are often doing things 159 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: digitally and they don't need to go to a physical 160 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: place to get a book. 161 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: People are using public libraries as and someone is it 162 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 2: as opportunity centers. They use the high speed computers to 163 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: fill out job applications, to interact with government. 164 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: They hold e government aspect. 165 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: They are using libraries as places to register to vote, to. 166 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 3: Vote and all types of things. 167 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: And libraries are offering collections that are beyond books. So 168 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: libraries are circulating and responding to communities in so many ways. 169 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: So let's talk a bit about your background, how you 170 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: became a librarian. So where were you born? 171 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: I was born on the campus of Florida A and 172 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: M University, historically Black college in Tallahassee, Florida. 173 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: And were your parents' teachers there? 174 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: Yes, My father had been recruited to start the string 175 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: department at that school. He was a classically trained violinist 176 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: and string instruments and so he was there. And then 177 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: my mom was a pianist. She was as a companists 178 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: many times, and so they went down there. 179 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 3: They'd never been to Florida. 180 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: They had never been to a historically back college and 181 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: they were from Springfield, Illinois, my dad and Champagne or 182 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: my mom, so it was just a totally different experience 183 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: for them. 184 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: So let me ask you how you got out of 185 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: Florida because you were born there, you're raised there. But 186 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: then where did you go to college? 187 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: Well, there was a little byway there. 188 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 2: My dad got bitten by the Jazz Book and we 189 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: moved to New York City so we could pursue that 190 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: parents got divorced because my mom did not get bitten 191 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: by that book. So then we returned to their home 192 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: states of Illinois. So I ended up going to high 193 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: school and then college in Chicago. 194 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: And you went to college ultimately. 195 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: Where Roosevelt University and University of Chicago. 196 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: Right, So you got a PhD in Library Sciences at 197 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: the University Coago. Yes, So are there many library schools anymore? 198 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: Because I thought some of them, that one of the 199 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: U in Chicago no longer exists. But are there still 200 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: a lot of library schools around the United States? 201 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: They're about fifty six library schools, but now they're mainly 202 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: called information science schools, Schools of information science or information management. 203 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: The University of Chicago school closed and the Columbia University 204 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: closed because their programs were deemed a little too academic. 205 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: So after you got your PhD from the University of 206 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: Chicago and library Sciences, what did you do well? 207 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 2: I went off to teach at the Library School and 208 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: University of Pittsburgh. And that school was really before its time. 209 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 2: The dean there was Tony Carbel, really wanted to make 210 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: sure that there was a merger with information science computer science. 211 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: She brought in technology companies and it was really an 212 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: innovative library school. 213 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: And then did you go back to Chicago from there? 214 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 2: I went back, and I went back because one of 215 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: my students that I had sent off with all this 216 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: knowledge is power and go and work in these libraries 217 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 2: and help people and everything. He came back and said, 218 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to get a PhD and. 219 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: I want to teach. 220 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: And I said, but you were doing so well, I 221 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: thought at this big urban library, and he said, well, 222 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: you told me to bring my ideas up. And I 223 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 2: saw the director of the library and I went up 224 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: to him and he I was trying to tell him 225 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: some of the things that I was interested in, and 226 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 2: he blew me off, and I thought, oh, okay, this 227 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: isn't and so I'm coming back to academ. 228 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: So what did you do? You joined the Chicago. 229 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: Chicago Public Library and you rose up to be the 230 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: chief librarian. I went back to Chicago also did a 231 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: stint at the Museum of Science and Industry, and that 232 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: was really helpful because I worked more with the curators, 233 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: but also opening up a public library in a museum. 234 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: So we're in Chicago. You met two people. Did they 235 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: borrow a lot of books of Barack and Michelle Obama? 236 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: Where they did they ever have overdue fines or anything? 237 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: Well, we could never tell if they did. But what 238 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: happened was when I went back, the person that was 239 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: the administrator for the city of Chicago that had in 240 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: her portfolio the public library was Michelle Robinson, and I 241 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: got to know her because she was responsible as a 242 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: deputy mayor type of position. And then she got engaged 243 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: to this gentleman who had an interesting name. And I 244 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: was recruited to head up the Baltimore Library. And so 245 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: in that July I missed the wedding. 246 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: Oh whatever happened to him, he did well. 247 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: It was so interesting too that years later I would 248 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: be sitting almost like this in the Oval Office being 249 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: interviewed by the President of the United States, because that's 250 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: the person who nominates the library to Congress. 251 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: And it's that. 252 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: So you already knew them. But let's talk about Baltimore. 253 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: You went to my hometown in Baltimore, where the library 254 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: system is called the inocaprat Free Library System, and you 255 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: became the head library and there for twenty two years. 256 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: Twenty two years. 257 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: Hey, so you're the head library for twenty two years 258 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: in Baltimore. And then the President of the United States 259 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: has the responsibility to nominate for Senate confirmation the Library 260 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: of Congress. I went members of Congress nominate the Library 261 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: of Congress since it's a Congress thing. 262 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: Believe it started with Lincoln, and that it would be 263 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: a position that the President would nominate similar to a 264 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: Supreme Court justice, and that it was that type of position, 265 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: and so you still have to be confirmed by the Senate. 266 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: And I went through that process. 267 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: So you interviewed with President Obama and he said, do 268 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: you want to be Library of Congress? And I guess 269 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: you said you were interested. 270 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: I was concerned about what I could bring to the 271 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: position because I had been so involved with public libraries 272 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: public access all of that career, but I never thought 273 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: of actually being part of the Library Congress because of 274 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: what the perception was that it was mainly for scholars. 275 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: It was that, And so what President Obama asked me 276 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: was he started it out with telling me that he 277 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: had seen the contents of Abraham Lincoln's pockets the night 278 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: he was assassinated. He had seen the first the draft 279 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: reading copy of the Gettysburg Address at lincoln Ton. But 280 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: he said at the Library of Congress. But he said, 281 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: I think that's because of my position, And he said, 282 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: what could you do with your background to open up 283 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 2: the Library of Congress to everyone? And that's what I 284 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: thought and said to him, I think I can do that. 285 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: So the government of the United States pays for the 286 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: Library of Congress. But do you take donations or you 287 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: do not interested in donations? 288 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: Well, we have wonderful philanthropic support the James Madison Council. 289 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: You've definitely have been the leader of that, and that's 290 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 2: the philanthropic arm of the library. And so there are 291 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 2: actual donations of cash that but also grants. The Mellon 292 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: Foundation gave the library one of its largest grants ever 293 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: to work with communities about their histories. And also we 294 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: just started a friends group. The Library of Congress had 295 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: never had a friends group. And so at a certain 296 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: level you can be a friend of the Library of 297 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: Congress and then people give actual collectictions and collection items, 298 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: and that's truly wonderful because we wouldn't be able to 299 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: purchase some of the things that people have given us. 300 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: So let me ask you about the library itself today. 301 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: How many employees do you have? 302 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 2: Roughly thirty five hundred are They're not all librarians. Those 303 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 2: are the people that you have, copyright lawyers, all types 304 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: of people that work at the library. 305 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: Car Now very often when I've seen Library of Congress employees, 306 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: I asked them how long they've been here, and they 307 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: sipicly say, oh, thirty five years. That's a long time. 308 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 1: They say, no, somebody here is forty years. Somebody here 309 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: is forty five years. Why don't people stay so long 310 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: at the Library of Congress. 311 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 3: They love it. One of the joys. 312 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: It's like being in a university. They're like faculty members, 313 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: and there are subject experts in whatever subject you have. 314 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: The Library of Congress there collects in four hundred and 315 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: seventy languages. Half of the collection is in languages other 316 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: than English, and so the Middle Eastern division, you're going 317 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 2: to have experts from the region who are from the 318 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 2: region and speak. 319 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: So today you've got thirty five hundred employees. Where do 320 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: you get your money from? To library finds? I assume 321 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: are not that big a part of your business. 322 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: And this is where the accessibility for everyone comes into play, 323 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: because eighty five to ninety percent of the library's operating 324 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: budget is from an appropriation from Congress, and that's taxpayer money. 325 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 2: And so that's another reason why we're really just devoted 326 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: to making sure people know that this is their library too. 327 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: So it was a joint committee on the Library. 328 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: For the library budget goes through the appropriations committees on 329 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 2: both sides Senate and House, and then there are pol 330 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 2: committees that help with the direction of the library itself, 331 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: though budgeting gives you direction as well. 332 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: What do you do when you're not being a library 333 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: in a Congress? 334 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: I always love to read, and so when I get 335 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: some spare time, I can look at old New Yorkers 336 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: and you know how they poll up. I could read 337 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 2: a mystery. I love mysteries and biographies. 338 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: But you don't go to any bookstores because you don't 339 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: need to buy books too. 340 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: You go to books to the Ivory Bookstore in Baltimore. 341 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: And it's funny because now people are watching what I'm buying, 342 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: so you have to be careful. 343 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: So as we talk, this weekend is the National Book 344 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: Festival Weekend. This has been going off for about twenty 345 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: plus years or so. What actually happens at the National 346 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: Book Festival. 347 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: Oh, and it is a festival. 348 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 2: It's a one day event with over ninety authors now 349 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 2: and it was started by first Lady Laura Bush, when 350 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: my predecessor, when she came to Washington, she had started 351 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 2: the Texas Book Festival. That's one of still one of 352 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: the largest book festivals in the country. And they started 353 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 2: it about twenty four years ago. And it when you 354 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 2: think about what we have for young people and what 355 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: we do for young people. There's an entire section that 356 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 2: is going to feature interactive activities and authors for young people. 357 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: Famous authors that we all know, Doris Currents, Goodwin, James McBride, 358 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 2: James Patterson will be there. You'll be there, and it's 359 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 2: just heartening when you we've just talked about illiteracy, and 360 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: when you see all of these book lovers that are gathered, 361 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of people. 362 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: Who presidents of the United States have will come up 363 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: and borrow a book, or they don't they're too busy 364 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: to do that. They don't call you and say do 365 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: you have this book or something. 366 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: Well, we have had some good relations with the White 367 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: House in terms of putting books on display for certain things, 368 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: and we've been doing more of that recently. 369 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: So what kind of books do you like to read? 370 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: Are you non fiction. 371 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: Or I mentioned mysteries. 372 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: A big mystery fan because you feel some sense of satisfaction. 373 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 3: With it. 374 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 2: Someone usually gets killed, nobody cares, but and then it's solved. 375 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 3: So that's very reassuring. 376 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the Library of Congress in the future. 377 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: Let's say ten, twenty thirty years from now. Do you 378 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: expect libraries like the Library Congress to be more relevant, 379 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: less relevant, more technologically savvy, or about the same as now. 380 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 2: They're going to be more technologically savvy, but they're also 381 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: going to be and we're seeing it now. Even though 382 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: there are some challenges in terms of what public libraries 383 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: and school libraries offer They're going to be even more relevant. 384 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 3: Because there's still trusted source of. 385 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 2: Information and in the world of misinformation, who can you trust? 386 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: What are those trusted sources? Libraries are still going to 387 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 2: be places that people look to. 388 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 389 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 390 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.