1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: It will not be any negotiations over the dead sailing. 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: I think it's a side of arrogance if you would 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: say he wouldn't even discuss it. We cannot open the 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: door to the Democrats peeling off several of our Republicans. 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: Floomberg Sound On Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top names. 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: Vicious is the fighting in the dumbs, A little bout 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: partisanship and different control, and the U. S. House of 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: Representatives will have the Congress early working for the American people. 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio que 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: the doomsday clock. It may be the only way to 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: solve the dead ceiling. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: says Worries intensify about a possible default later in the year. 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: Some Republicans are actually encouraging it. We'll talk reality with 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Congress reporter Eric Wasson and discuss possible solutions with 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: Mia McGinnis, president of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: And as more Russian missiles reign on Ukraine, President Zelenski 18 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 1: says the war will be one in the don Boss. 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: We're joined by Rebecca Heinrichs later this hour, senior fellow 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: at the Hudson Institute, an expert on asymmetrical warfare. Analysis 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: from our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis, Genie 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: Chanzano here for the hour. Thanks for joining us on 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics. The headlines are not getting 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: any easier. This is what happens, by the way, when 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: everybody leaves town. The House and Senate are out this week, right, 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: everybody's looking at Davos, and boy, the the pots just 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: boiling on this debt limit story. Doomsday clocks likely before 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: Congress hikes debt limit. As I read on the terminal, 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: this is coming back and forth with the White House 30 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: now and Kevin McCarthy. The message is not changing on 31 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: either end of Pennsylvania Avenue. Karine John Pierre, the Press Secretary, 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: asked again, of course you better believe today in the briefing, 33 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: and the Sir remains the same here she is. It 34 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: is something that should be happy, that should be done 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: without conditions. There should be we should not be negotiating 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: around it. It is the it is the duty, the 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: basic duty of Congress to get that done. And so 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: we're not going to uh, we're just not going to 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: negotiate about that because again it was done under the 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: last president. It was done three times again in a 41 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: bipartisan bipartisan waiting Well, this yere could be different. No negotiating, though, 42 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: is the line that we've heard every day since this 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: really started. Back and forth with the new Speaker of 44 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: the House, Kevin McCarthy says, hey, you know, we've got time. 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: Why don't we work something out here? He is, you know, 46 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: we're six months away approximately, And what I'd like to 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: do is I'd like to sit down with all the leader, 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: especially with the President, start having discussion. I think it's 49 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: a sign of arrogance if you would say he wouldn't 50 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: even discuss it. Of course, the White House says, there's 51 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: nothing to discuss. The money is already spent. And you 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: remember tomorrow I told you to circle the nine on 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: your calendar. That is when the U. S. Treasury begins 54 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 1: implementing what they call extraordinary measures to start stretching out 55 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: the cash. Here back to the headline on the terminal 56 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: doomsday clocks, likely before Congress hikes debt limit. Queue the 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: clock I mean, we got to do this right. If 58 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: anyone's gonna pay attention to coordinated universal time, Oh boy, 59 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: that's it. I think we're running out of time. Bloomberg 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: Congress reporter Eric Wasson shares the byline on this great story. 61 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: With the U. S. Government facing the danger of a 62 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: payments default later this year, Congress has a variety of 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: paths to avert in economic disaster and boost the debt ceiling. 64 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: If you really want to know what you're talking about 65 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 1: for your own information or for the cocktail party later, 66 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: Eric Wasason and Mike Dorning actually walked through all of 67 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: the like possibilities here because this could go a lot 68 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: of different ways. And Eric is with us right now. Eric, 69 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: thank you. I hope you appreciate the doomsday clock. Somebody 70 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: actually mentioned that to you. That was a quote from 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: a Rodney Davis, a former Republican congressman from Illinois. What 72 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: did he mean? Yeah, it just means it's going to 73 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: have to be a lot of media pressure, a lot 74 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: of public pressure and market pressure note write doubt in 75 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: order to force the source and the outcome here, because 76 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: we really have a staring contest is only deepening. You know, 77 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: you had McCarthy in the White House. Why I was was 78 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: saying no negotiation. The thing is is that Democrats used 79 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: to negotiate, as the President Obama did. He engaged with 80 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: Speaker Byner in Tleven. It led to a series of 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: budget caps that many of which were later waived by Congress, 82 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: but there was a deal made, and Republicans just feel like, 83 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, this might be a bluff from the White House, 84 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: and let's just try to pressure them into negotiating. A 85 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: lot of people ask and and and it's it's been 86 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: remarked that the market isn't even paying attention to this 87 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: yet because we're looking at what August or September is 88 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: likely when the Treasury would would actually want out of 89 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: cash to pay the bills. Here, Eric, why why is 90 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: it starting in January with such an intense uh feeling 91 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: in Washington? It's like issue number one. Well, Joe, one 92 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: thing I should say is that Yelling's letter to say 93 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: maybe early June. So this time I was moving up 94 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: a little bit. And there's going to be a crunch 95 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: because we see the President's budget now not coming till 96 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: March that US it kicks off the budget season. We're 97 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: going to see a lot of little steps that have 98 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: to take place here, especially in the House, to you 99 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: p passing a budget resolution, starting to pass some aprope 100 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: s bill, to establish what exactly is their demand, what 101 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: can they actually produce votes for, And that's going to 102 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: be a really crunch time around you know, April May. 103 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: So there's you know, they're just there's a lot of 104 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: maneuvering right now. This is kind of pre gaming it. Uh, 105 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, but and it's surrounding the yelling letter. But 106 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: they'll go quiet for a bit. That's going to really 107 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: eat up in the spring. Uh. You know, our our 108 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: our story looks at all the different options. One of 109 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: them is very intriguing to some people is this discharged petition. 110 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: You know, McCarthy is backed into a corner by the Conservatives. 111 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: They can bring this vote to oustim at any time, 112 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: but what if you try to make an run around McCarthy. 113 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: And we talked exploits and they basically said, look, you know, 114 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: you can have Democrats start a force a vote on 115 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: a clean death sailing bill if they can get six 116 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: Republicans to sign this discharge position with them. There's a 117 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: lot of pressure on Republicans. Got to do that. But 118 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: there's a sod Day thirty legislative day delay, you know, 119 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: So it's it's just two to three months. So even 120 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: if he came up with a deal of moderates something 121 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: to buy them off, you couldn't really start this clock picking. 122 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: So it's not a really nimble, you know, nimble device. 123 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: I'm also very intrigued by the idea of a Senate gang. 124 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: You saw that with the infrastructure bill. Maybe mansion, maybe 125 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: Cinema get together come up with something. You know, they've 126 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: talked about the need for for budget cuts or budget restraints. Uh, 127 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,119 Speaker 1: you know, they kind of go against the White House 128 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: line and come up with a compromise. Maybe that's the 129 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: seed of something. I love that we're talking solutions here 130 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: at least, Eric, thank you so much. I'll point everyone 131 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: else to the column, by the way, just to search 132 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: doomsday at that Herman Eric Watson Bloom a Congress reporter 133 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: with a good piece of work. And we turned to 134 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: Maya McGuinness for her thoughts on some of these solutions. 135 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: Because we can talk about standoff all day. I know 136 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: it's entertaining, there's lots of good sound bites, and look, 137 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna get hippy it'll get way worse than this, 138 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: but at some point we have to talk about a path. 139 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: Of course, the President for the Committee for a Responsible 140 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: Federal Budget maya welcome back. It's great to have you 141 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: before we get to a doomsday clock. What do you 142 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: think of some of these ideas that we're hearing a 143 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: discharge petition where Democrats actually start to to push this 144 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: a little bit, or even minting a trillion dollar coin. 145 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: Are you hearing anything real? What's what's reality? So there 146 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: are ideas that run the gamut from absolutely ridiculous and 147 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: something that you would only see in a Banana Republic 148 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: economy to possibly workable. But we shouldn't want to find 149 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: it out. We shouldn't want to get there. We just 150 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: want to use them. That's a big spread that it's 151 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: there's quite a spread. It's a big discussion. It's all 152 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: over the place, and it's gonna be like this for months, 153 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: which is the opposite of how it should be. There 154 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: should be one goal with one possible addition. The main 155 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: goal here is get the debt ceiling increased without any drama. 156 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: We've already failed that, right, There's going to be drama 157 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: no matter what, but without real drama that royals the 158 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: markets and royals the economy. And second, if possible, it 159 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: is a good idea to include some measures that would 160 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: include the fiscal improve the fiscal health along with raising 161 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling, which is what we used to do 162 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: all the time. Most of our debt ceiling increases used 163 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: to be accompanied by some kind of process or policy improvements. 164 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: But it seems that we are going to go through 165 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: a much uglier negotiation than spending our time now and 166 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: talking about what policies or a fiscal commission that could 167 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: be attached, and instead we're going to go through these things. 168 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: So debt prioritization. It might work, it might not work. 169 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: I don't think we should find out. I think even 170 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: talking about it and trying it could start to be 171 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: very dangerous in terms of stability for the markets, And 172 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: currently it just seems dumb politically and operation operationally. We're 173 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: not sure if it can work. Yeah, then you'd have 174 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: to pass a law that would be pretty darned difficult, 175 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't it. That would be incredibly difficult to get done. 176 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: Um the discharge position petition that could work, It takes 177 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: a lot of time to get done. They have to 178 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: get started right now. I mean, we always hope I 179 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: think that somewhere in the background there's already a plan 180 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: and that this is just theater, but there's not a plan, 181 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: and think, no, there's no plan, and so thinking that 182 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: something like a discharge position could get done in its 183 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: dance enough. They really need to start working on it 184 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: soon because it needs a lot of days to go 185 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: through Congress the process that is required. Alright, So, Miam 186 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: McGinnis is a no on a trillion dollar coin. You 187 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: didn't say it, but the'm just going out there. Okay. Now, 188 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: the idea of of a of a gang in the Senate, 189 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: you know, a cinema mansion kind of we're going to 190 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: cut through this? Isn't that more difficult now in this 191 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: new House majority where there's not there's not much respect 192 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: for what's going on in the Senate. They don't want 193 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: to be told this is Kevin McCarthy wants to negotiate 194 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: directly with the White House. Well, he does want to 195 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: negotiate with the White House, and I think the White 196 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: House should enter in discussions. I think we're not going 197 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: to have discussions. Isn't a healthy posture because we need 198 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: to I understand not engaging in. If you don't do 199 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: what we say, we're going to default. But I do 200 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: think talking about what to do about the fiscal situation 201 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. But in terms of negotiations, 202 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: this is not Republicans and Democrats, or even Republicans and 203 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: Democrats in the White House, because there's so many different 204 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: groups within the Republicans and Democratic Party right now that 205 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: there are negotiations that have to go within each of 206 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: the parties. First, I think there are a number of 207 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: more moderate Republicans who will probably get really tired of 208 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: this discussion if it continues to be around. There might 209 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: be a default, but would be really pleased if the 210 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: discussion is we need to do something to control spending 211 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: or put in place a fiscal commission or something more reasonable. 212 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: And so I think they have to figure that out 213 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: first amongst themselves. Well, I'll tell you the lawmakers who 214 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: were holding up the Republican lawmakers holding up Kevin McCarthy's speakership, 215 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: UH for fifteen rounds or whatever it was going into 216 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: that weekend. Boy, I don't think they love the idea 217 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: of a fiscal commission right that that will anger a 218 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: lot of conservative Republicans as well, and Maya, we haven't 219 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: even mentioned the name Mitch McConnell yet. Yeah, that's right, 220 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: we haven't. Well to your first point, I don't think 221 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: they'd like the idea of the commission. But also with 222 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: surprises me is how many of them are suddenly running 223 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: from what the most serious thing we need to do 224 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: and should do is, which is fixed Social Security and Medicare. 225 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: If you're serious about dealing with our fiscal challenges, what 226 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: should be on the table is making those two programs solvent, 227 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: which are headed towards and solvency. The trust funds are 228 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: going to run into trouble in the coming years, and 229 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: that's the most important thing we could do. And we 230 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: know how politically difficult that is. Uh, And you've already 231 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: seen many of the Republicans who hold out the most 232 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: on it's so important to deal with the fiscal issue 233 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: not being willing to talk about those very important issues. 234 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: And I think it started when President and Trump said 235 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: I promised not to fix Social Security and Medicare. That 236 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: isn't the right direction to move things fiscally. So so 237 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: again there's some issues there. Yes, your point about Mitch 238 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: McConnell is he would like to get this deal done. 239 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: But it also reminds me that some of the deals, 240 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: and he was involved with them, the past three deals 241 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: will raise the debt feeling under present Trump. They all 242 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: included policy measures that made the debt worse. And so 243 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: I think any of the leaders that push anything like 244 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: that are going to find themselves up against a very 245 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: strong wall of oppositions from those House Republicans we were 246 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: just talking about, Wow, this is really interesting. Is there 247 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: any are there any budget cuts that the White House 248 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: could offer that would not upset Democrats? Is there any 249 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: is there any low hanging fruit that Joe Biden could 250 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: bring that that could give Kevin McCarthy the off ramp 251 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: to say, hey, we got we got at least some 252 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: spending cuts on this. Well, that's a great question. The 253 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: problem is there there there's not much low hanging fruit 254 00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: because it's been used when it needed to and the 255 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: PSS and then they stopped using it and they just 256 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: started borrowing instead, which is why we're in this myth um. 257 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: I do think there's probably a small package of healthcare 258 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: reforms that has been put forward in in budgets of 259 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: both Republicans and Democrats, there's probably half a trillion dollars 260 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: of savings of healthcare reforms that could be there. Fixing 261 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: the way we calculate inflation using chain CPI is something 262 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: that they should be able to do. And reasonable spending caps, 263 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: but they'd have to be on defense and non defense. 264 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: It's something we've had for the past decade. They work, 265 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: They work if they are reasonable levels. They don't work 266 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: if they're too aggressive, So some medium ones could be workable. 267 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: I like the idea of those specific kinds of policies, 268 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: but I just think that's a lot to negotiate with 269 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling breathing down their back. Maybe a commission 270 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: was a very short amount of time to work on 271 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: those specific issues and hash house of details could work. 272 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. Maya thank you for helping us through this, 273 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: Mia McGinnis Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget with us 274 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Sound On. I'd love to hear what the 275 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: panel thinks of this, because it's hard to hell especially 276 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: you know what what resonates now may not in June, 277 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: but they do need to start crafting something here. To 278 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: Eric's point, sooner than later. Jennie Chanzana, when Rick Davis 279 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: joined us as Bloomberg Politics contributors. They make up our 280 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: signature panel. Rick, what do you think of this idea 281 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: for for Republicans to accept a fiscal commission or some 282 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: sort of promise at least to reform things going forward. 283 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: If if, say it was paired with a clean debt 284 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: limit bill, you know, I think they'd feel like they 285 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: were giving up nothing to get nothing. In other words, 286 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: the commissions have been tried before. I'm a big fan 287 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: of them because I think in a non political, hypercharged environment, 288 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: they tend to come up with good ideas. But then 289 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: even when the commission does come up with good ideas, 290 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: they tend to not get a hearing in Congress, and 291 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: nobody wants to be for you know, the commission for 292 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: various reasons politically, and so until you solve the politics 293 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: of this, I don't think there's going to be much 294 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: that that the House Republicans are going to see as productive, 295 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: and they're likely to be the no guys. Right. We 296 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: don't even know what they're asking for at this stage. Uh, 297 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: and yet they're already opposed to anything the administration wants 298 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: to give them. Is that just window dressing a commission? 299 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: Genie that doesn't bring the promise somehow of of reform 300 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: next year. Yeah. I mean, they are not going to 301 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: the five that we know of who have said they 302 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: don't want to negotiate at all on this. The Republicans 303 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: the House, that is not going to be something that 304 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: they're going to want to accept. And so the reality is, 305 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: and I think the scary part of this is is 306 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: the fact that they are talking about things like prioritization, 307 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: which means they are not thinking about resolving the debt 308 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: ceiling by lifting or suspending it and moving forward to 309 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: have a really important conversation about spending. What they're doing 310 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: is they're trying to say, we're going to play games 311 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: with the U. S. Economy. We are going to leave 312 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: this thing it is as it is, and we're going 313 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: to try to navigate a really, really dangerous situation. And 314 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: that's why this is going to consume Washington for the 315 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: next several months. And it is a very bad sign 316 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: that they're not trying to talk about how to get there, 317 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: but how to navigate. When they don't, well, I'll tell 318 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: you what, Andy Biggs, one of the members you're you're 319 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: referring to tweet it in the White House, Uh was 320 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: quick to respond, we cannot raise the debt ceiling. Democrats 321 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: have carelessly spend our taxpayer money, devalued our currency. They've 322 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: made their bed, so they must lie in it. So 323 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: what do we do then? Rick? In that case, if 324 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: if they're not gonna budge uh, then you could be 325 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: headed for a default. Yeah. No, I mean right now, 326 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: the snapshot of this is um is pretty bleak. Uh. 327 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: And I thought was summed up well by Christen Cinema 328 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: and Dabos today saying that deal's McCarthy cut may not 329 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: allow him to have a deal. Wow. We pick up 330 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: our conversation there next with the panel, Genie and Rick 331 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: with us for the hour. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. 332 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for choosing the fastest hour in politics. This is Bloomberg. 333 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Son with Joe Matthew on bloom Bird Radio. 334 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: The White House is accusing Republicans in the House of 335 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: quote unprecedented economic vandalism unquote reaching for the vandalism already here. 336 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: It's good. We've only what gotten two days into this week. 337 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: It's heating up quick. And that, of course, was in 338 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: response to the tweet from Andy Biggs that I mentioned. 339 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: This is one of the Republican members of Congress who 340 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: not only opposed Kevin McCarthy as speaker, but ran for 341 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: speaker himself. And he says, we're not raising the debt limit. 342 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: As I read for you a moment ago, he says, 343 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: Democrats have made their bed, carelessly spent our taxpayer money, 344 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: devalued our currency. They've made their bed, so they must 345 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: lie in it. Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis are with 346 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: us the panel. Genie, it's everyone's bed, that's the problem, 347 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: right if we default, that's everyone's retirement account, not just Democrats. Yeah, 348 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 1: that that tweet just killed me. Joe Matthew, thank you 349 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: for sharing that. I hadn't seen that one. You know, 350 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: let's start from the beginning. I mean, we are talking 351 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: about paying debts that the government owes because of money 352 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: spent and by the way, all of it allocated by Congress, 353 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: where Andy big sits number one. We're not talking about 354 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: future spending. We're talking about pass spending. Number two. The 355 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: tactic he wants to employ of not raising the debt 356 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: ceiling defaulting if if he cares so much about the deficit, 357 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: is going to make that much much worse. So by 358 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: what sort of sane sort of examination of this problem 359 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: does putting your heels down and saying you're not going 360 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: to negotiate, you're not going to have a conversation or 361 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: any of this make any sense in this regard, Raise 362 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling, get rid of it all together, and 363 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: then talk about the very important issue of spending. But 364 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: you can't couple the to their completely different things, and 365 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: you're going to make the matter you say you care 366 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: about so much worse. Well, any Biggs is one reason 367 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: why kirston Cinema made the remark that you might have heard. 368 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: Rick Davis mentioned she was on a panel in Dabos 369 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: and by the way, she sitting right next to Joe Mansion. 370 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: They high five agreeing on the filibuster. The quote is 371 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: that will make it very difficult. She's referring to the 372 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: concessions that led to Kevin McCarthy speakership. That will make 373 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: it very difficult for us to meet her obligation when 374 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: the debt limit fight comes up later this year. Uh, 375 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: might she be one to lead a gang in the 376 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: Senate Rick to force a deal? Yeah, I would think 377 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: that she would be a very good candidate to be 378 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: part of a gang of uh. You know, John McCain 379 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: made good use of gang of in various places where 380 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: you needed a bipartisan solution, and she's been, you know, 381 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: sort of fitting into his uh legacy quite well. So sure, 382 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: I and I think that would be something that she 383 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: do well. Republicans like to do business with her. She's 384 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: accomplished an enormous amount in her first term of office, 385 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: uh legislatively with bipartisan solutions to difficult problems. So uh, 386 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: but I don't think this that the Senate is actually 387 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: going to be the hold up. I mean, in the past, 388 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: the Senate can put a little pain into the discussions, 389 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: but right now I think the Senate is in a 390 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: place where working in a Bi Parson fashion has become 391 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: more the norm than the exception uh in the House 392 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: because of what she said. I think is a real issue, 393 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: and that is that the deal that that that that 394 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy had to cut with the right wing of 395 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: his party, the Freedom Caucus, actually prohibit him from using 396 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: some of the legislative tools that he has a speaker 397 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: to actually get a deal. And and that is really 398 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: a new problem that we have not seen recently there's 399 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: always this ability at the end where powerful people, you know, 400 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: whether they've been speakers on the House Republican side or 401 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: Democrats side, can use the tricks of the chamber to 402 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: get things done and his hands may be tied. Fascinating 403 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: and not in a good way. Uh. We heard about 404 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: some committees, some more committees over the past couple of days, 405 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: with some big ones the last twenty four hours, and 406 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: that's the Oversight Committee. Now you remember, Marjorie Taylor Green 407 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: was all in for Kevin McCarthy with her eyes. She 408 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: had been kicked off of committees by Democrats and she 409 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: didn't want just any She wanted Oversight so she could 410 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: help investigate the Biden White House. Let's travel back in 411 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: time here. This is Marjorie Taylor Green in the middle 412 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: of November when the McCarthy fight was just starting to cook. 413 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: We have a very slim majority, and so this is 414 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: why it's so important for us to stay unified and 415 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: get behind him as our speaker, because we cannot open 416 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: the door to the Democrats peeling off several of our 417 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: Republicans and and working together to choose a speaker that 418 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: they would control. We have to have the gavel well, 419 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: he's Speaker and she's on the Oversight Committee. Now Genie 420 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: Paul Gossar is on the Oversight Committee. You I'm sure 421 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: envisioned this, But what does it really mean for the 422 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: White House? You know, for the White House, it means 423 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: that they are facing what they knew they were going 424 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: to face, which is they are going to face investigation 425 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: after investigation after investigation. And of course they were preparing 426 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: for that before the issue of the classified documents arose, 427 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: which has given new life to this uh you know, 428 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: oversight focus. But and but now they're facing not only 429 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: just the oversight but they are facing a committee with 430 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: people like Green and Ghost Star and then of course 431 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: you see people named committees like Lauren Bobert landing these 432 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: powerful positions. So this is something that the White House, 433 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: I think is you know, knows they were going to 434 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 1: have to confront and in a way they think this 435 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: might work to their advantage that these people will say 436 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: or do something crazy that they can this playoff of 437 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: well that's where I was going to go here with 438 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: Rick Lauren Bobert indeed being another on the Oversight Committee, 439 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: is this going to end up becoming uh sort of 440 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: a Saturday Night lives it in Congress. I mean, you 441 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: can overreach pretty easily with people on this Well, yeah, 442 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: look at what we started this segment talking about Andy Biggs. 443 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean, for heaven's sakes, this guy is one of 444 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: the biggest cast of characters in the entire Congress, and 445 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: yet he's driving some of the policy discussion that we're 446 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: having today. I mean it's outrageous. I mean he is, 447 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: He's considered a fractional player at best, and yet considering 448 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: the new majority, you know, and how much of a 449 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: tilt to the right it's taken, he's of us all 450 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: of a sudden a powerful guy again. Um, but yeah, 451 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: I think I think it's gonna be a Halloween every 452 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: day of the week on the floor of the House 453 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: of Representatives. And what does that mean for the actual 454 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: oversight though? I mean, what what kind of investigations this 455 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: is gonna go beyond Hunter Biden's laptop And I'm assuming 456 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: they're going to be briefings by them every day. This 457 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: will be a daily bit of entertainment. Yeah. Well, look, 458 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: these are posers, right, I mean, these are people Marjorie 459 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: Taylor Green and Laurren Bobert especially, who have no interest 460 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: whatsoever in legislation or oversight. What they want to do 461 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: is be in the news. And so you're going to 462 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: have as many investigations that requires them to be in 463 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: the press every single day of the week. And and 464 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: I and I don't expect any of those investigations to 465 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: actually come to any logical conclusion because doing the hard 466 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: work is not what these members have been tasked to do. 467 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: Uh uh, it's it's it's making news and being celebrities. 468 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: And I think the loss in the House of UM, 469 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: people like Adam Kinsinger who used to call him out 470 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: for this and say, why don't you get to work 471 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: and actually help us pass some bills UM is going 472 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: to be sorely missed because now you know they're sort 473 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: of unhinged and can do pretty much whatever they want 474 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: because you know, they elected the speaker. That's right. Kevin 475 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: McCarthy needs to protect them. Genie, Oh my gosh, I 476 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: don't know if Joe Biden just sort of tries to 477 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: laugh his way through this. That's more difficult now with 478 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: the documents. But I wouldn't want to be Koree and 479 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: Jean Pierre for the next two years. Oh is she 480 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: going to be facing the questions. But yeah, I mean, 481 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: and the documents have really muddied the water for them 482 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: on this. But the reality is, if they could have 483 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: chosen a cast of characters to be engaged in this, 484 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: you know what what should be in a serious endeavor 485 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: and likely won't be, they would have chosen these people. 486 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: So in a way, McCarthy did their bidding. At least 487 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: that's what they're hoping. And this is what Joe Biden 488 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: ran on in the mid term election, what he hopes 489 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: to run on in twenty four. Don't let the crazies 490 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: get control of the White House the way they did 491 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: the House, and look what they did to their own leader. 492 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: One of the options in the piece that I mentioned 493 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: at the top on the debt limit, the doomsday clock piece, 494 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: which it's worth your read on the terminal just for 495 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: background and potential outcomes, your potential solutions. Uh, One of 496 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: the sections is McCarthy folds. That is a possibility obviously 497 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: here Rick Kevin McCarthy could find religion on this and 498 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: and change his tune. But we've gone through that before 499 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: that that could get him fired, right, Yeah, I mean, 500 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: this is the discharge petition that we've talked about so 501 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: many times since it came up as part of his 502 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: quote getting elected deal. Um, and it's a motion of 503 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: vacate and and it and it and it hangs over 504 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: his head, right, I mean, it's it's going to be 505 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: something that the the anybody can use as a wedge. 506 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: I would say, Um, there is a chance that he 507 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: does try to get something productive done. I mean short 508 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: of you know, sort of getting religion. Uh. He isn't 509 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: gonna want this to go all the way down to 510 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: the wire because the reality is he he can't rely 511 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: on his own caucus. Right. If anybody understands the pain 512 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: they can inflict, it's him. Tell me about the fifteenth 513 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: ballot and how good that felt. Uh. And and so 514 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: I think he'll try to rig a deal where we 515 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: don't have it all the way down to the train 516 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: hitting in the intersection, uh, with a car sitting in it, 517 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: because I think he realizes that at that point he 518 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: actually loses all of his control. And so you know, 519 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: speakers have a lot of power. This one still does. 520 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: And I think it'll be in his interest and I 521 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: think he's mad enough to want to do this, is 522 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: to make sure this doesn't get to a point where 523 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: he could ultimately be criticized if something bad happened. Rick Davis, 524 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: Geenie Schanzano. We turned to Ukraine next. This is Bloomberg 525 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: So Long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The weather 526 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: may not have been severe, at least so far, as 527 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: many feared for winter in Ukraine, but it has been 528 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: a season of horrors for the people who lived there. 529 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: President Zelenski today spoke to the gathering in Davo, spoke 530 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: to the World Economic Forum remotely from Kiev, and reflected 531 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: on some of the horrible headlines that we have seen 532 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: here as he asked for more support. The death toll 533 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: at a nine story apartment building in Denepro you may 534 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: have seen, climbed to thirty a couple of days ago, 535 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: was hit by what Ukraine's Air command said as a 536 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: Russian long range anti ship missile. But that's that's just 537 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: one of many. The numbers are horrifying there. But Russia 538 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: in fact launched UH fifty seven missile strikes in the 539 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: last twenty four hours, sixty nine strikes from rocket salvo 540 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: systems that, according to Ukraine's General Staff of President vladimir's Lensky, 541 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: in that speech reflecting on the attack on the apartment 542 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: building Ukraham lives thousands outside students, including three millions on 543 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: January fourteen. Three millions the time it took for a 544 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: Russian missile to travel hundreds of kilometers, keep a residential 545 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: block in Librol and kill at least forty five people 546 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: three minutes, he says, calling on world leaders to act quickly, 547 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: unite even more, he said with the message that Russia 548 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: was outpacing democracy. Listen the supplying of Ukraine. When air 549 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: defense systems must outpeace Russia's next missile at text this 550 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: supplies or Western tanks must outpace another invasion of Russian 551 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: tax their restoration of security and peace in Ukraine must 552 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: outpace Russia's A text on security and peace in all 553 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: the conference. This is where we begin with Rebecca Heinrich, 554 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a specialist on Ukraine. 555 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: Back with us here on Bloomberg. Sound on, Rebecca. It's 556 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: great to have you. We've heard a lot of talk 557 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: of tanks recently, whether Germany commits to them, Britain is 558 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: on board, We're giving them Patriot air defense systems, and 559 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: the question keeps coming. You know on on what else 560 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: can we can we deliver? And I know that there 561 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: are different answers to that question, but it sounded to 562 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: me like a different Vladimir z Olenski. It sounded to 563 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: me like someone who was feeling more worried than maybe 564 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: he was when he addressed a Joint Session of Congress, 565 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: if not just exhausted by this relentless uh series of 566 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: missile attacks by Russia. What's going through his mind right now? Well, 567 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: I think, first of all, whenever he was addressing the 568 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: Joint Session of Congress, he had to strike a very 569 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: careful tone. He couldn't appear to be quote unquote ungrateful 570 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: for the the weapons that Americans have paid for and 571 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: sent the economic aid, and so he had to strike 572 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: a relatively optimistic tone that things were achievable and working, 573 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: and then he was grateful. But the truth of the 574 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: matter is the United States still is reluctant to provide 575 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: certain categories of weapons, and so really it's a cat 576 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: and mouse games. The Russians continue to move further back 577 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: and out of range the categories of weapons that Ukraine 578 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: currently had, and so Zelenski is incredibly frustrated. These cities 579 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: are getting pummeled, and he wants the kinds of weapons 580 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: that enables him to go on a strong counter offensive 581 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: to actually do serious damage to the Russian military. Well, 582 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: his claim today that the don Boss is the key, 583 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: that if they're going to win this war, it will 584 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: be one of the Don Boss. We heard from John 585 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: Kirby as well, spokesman for the National Security Apparatus in 586 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: the White House today where he said, make no mistake, 587 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: listen vicious is the fighting in the in the Don 588 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: Boss today, UM, particularly around the Black Muten Solodar and 589 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: of the two even more towards the Ladder Solidar in particular, 590 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: the battles in these areas, the Donuts and Lahnsk regions, 591 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: including the cities that Kirby mentioned, are continuing without respite. 592 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: According to Zelenski, Uh does this turn into a war 593 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: of attrition? Rebecca Well, I hope it doesn't, because nobody 594 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: wins that UM, and I think that that's why you're 595 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: getting some frustration. I'm picking up a lot of that 596 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: from the polls from the Baltic nations, from the Brits 597 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: really urging Germany to to let the export of these 598 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: Leopard tanks because those are the kind of tanks that 599 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 1: that Ukraine needs to get closer to where they need 600 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: to go on the attack. The high mark Americans have 601 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: provided are becoming out of reach for where the Russians 602 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: are going, and so you either have to have tanks 603 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: that gets you closer with guns that can actually hit 604 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: with where the Russians are, or you have to have 605 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: longer range stripe systems like attack them or the big, 606 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: heavier drones that the United States has still been lows 607 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: to to export to Ukraine. We'll glad you mentioned the 608 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: tanks because we have We spent time yesterday talking about 609 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: Germany and whether it might commit Leopard tanks as have 610 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: been requested dozens of them. We know the Brits stood 611 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: up on this, and it's kind of a different situation 612 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: for American Abrams tanks because they're so difficult to maintain. 613 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: But I see in the Wall Street Journal Germany will 614 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: not allow allies to ship German made tanks to Ukraine 615 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: unless the US agrees to send American made battle tanks. 616 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: So how are we getting anything done with with that 617 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: kind of approach? And who needs to talk to Germany? Yeah, 618 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: I think that there's just again, I think that Germany 619 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: is playing games here, always one more saying there's always 620 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: one more thing that's just out of reach before Germany 621 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: will finally do something meaningful. And as you said, this 622 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: is not a matter of the United States in this 623 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: particular case thing to provide tanks. It's the it's the 624 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: German m leopard tanks that are necessary. And you know, 625 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: I'm very disappointed your President Biden had to talk with 626 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: Schultz today Germany Schultz, and and rather than Schultz coming 627 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,719 Speaker 1: out of that and saying, fine, we're going to do it, 628 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: he seemed to move further the other directions, saying we're 629 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: just simply not going to do this. And so this 630 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: is very disappointing for for no matter of of a 631 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: U S leadership perspective, to unite the alliance, the NATO 632 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: Alliance to actually provide what is necessary. I have gotten 633 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: to the point where I just concluded that the United 634 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: States should back the side of the NATO Alliance that 635 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: wants to see Ukraine succeed, and then forced Germany to 636 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: follow us rather than trying to unite US before moving forward. Well, 637 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: maybe that happens naturally, Rebecca, when you have Britain standing up, 638 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: when you have France standing up before Germany. Uh, you 639 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: may not have to ask for that. That's exactly right. 640 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: And I saw the Polish form ministers said today, you know, 641 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: we've been asking and maybe it's time paraphrasing him that 642 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: we're going to stop asking as well. And the other 643 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: way you have the alliance begin to pull apart is 644 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: that patient simply runs out and that people are no 645 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: longer willing to wait for Germany. If Germany is going 646 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: to be the weakest link, then they'll go ahead and 647 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: go forward. But oftenally um, clearly it's better whenever you 648 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: have the entire NATO Alliance moving forward. But these countries 649 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: can't afford to see Russia succeed, and they understand that 650 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: Ukraine is only the first link and the rest of 651 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: NATO along the um the borders, they're also at risk 652 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: if Russia is allowed to prevail, and so there is 653 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 1: a greater sense of urgency on that wing of the 654 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: of the NATO alliance. Will the war be one or 655 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: loss of the dawn boss as President Zelinski correct, I 656 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: don't know about that. I'm sure that he knows more 657 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: about than I do. Operationally, and what's necessary will have 658 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: strategic effects I do know that the only way the 659 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: war ends is if poot And decides that he's not 660 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: going to prevail militarily to get the games that he 661 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: wants to have, and so you have to you have 662 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: to force him to make that decision. He has not, 663 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: which means he still thinks that he can win by 664 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: by outlasting Um, the patient of the Alliance. We always 665 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: get smarter when we talked to Rebecca Heinrich, Rebecca, thank 666 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: you for being here, senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, 667 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: an expert on Ukraine who can come in a lot 668 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: of handy at moments like this when we try to 669 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: make sense of these headlines. We're gonna get back to 670 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 1: our panel next. As Joe Biden picks up the phone 671 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: to order a cheeseburger. All the stories that happen every 672 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: day in Washington, you know you're gonna hear about it 673 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: on this program. Sound on the fastest hour in politics. 674 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. So 675 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: no with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Bloomberg. Sound on 676 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: to you by Innovation Refunds. This is your daily reminder 677 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: from Innovation refunds the sacrifices you made keeping your employees 678 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: on the payroll during the pandemic or not forgotten checked 679 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: the potential refund but you're small to medium sized business 680 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,720 Speaker 1: may be eligible to receive through the employee retention credit 681 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: no upfront costs. Learn more at get refunds dot Com. 682 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: President had small business on his mind today. Well, everyone's 683 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: sitting in davosippic champagne talking about the future of the 684 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: world economy. President Biden was ordering cheeseburgers. He actually put 685 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: out a tweet ordered to bacon cheese burger from a 686 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: local restaurant to celebrate over ten million new small business 687 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: applications during my presidency. Uh, this was I guess for 688 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: lunch with Kamala Harris, the Vice president. You know they 689 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: have lunch every week. Remember what he was trying to 690 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: do that with Barack Obama. I guess they're still doing it, 691 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: and so you know, he picked up the phone to 692 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: place the order. As he writes in the tweet, I 693 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: may have caught Brittany off guard. Sebastian. Let's dial the phone. Hi. Hi, Yeah, well, 694 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: I'd like to have a bacon cheeseburger with American cheese 695 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: on a side of French fries. We'll have someone come 696 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: pick it up. Okay, how business a Ghostburgers these days? 697 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: It's pretty good at good Okay, I'm looking forward to 698 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: having lunch. That's crazy, says Brittany had but played it 699 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: pretty cool on the phone. They're shake it now called 700 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: Ghostburger and they're chowing there, and I said, this is 701 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Collin said, huh. I don't know if that's 702 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: out within, but hey, let's hear it for Ghostburger. That's 703 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: pretty good. Rick Davis and g. D. Schanzano join us 704 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: with final thoughts here. Good politics, don't don't you think, Genie, 705 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: But I don't care what it does on Twitter, but 706 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: being seen as a regular person and having a sense 707 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: of humor goes a long way to staying people's good races. Yeah, 708 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: he's got to ignore looking at Twitter and all the 709 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: people who called him boomer and said it didn't really 710 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: look like Brittany was actually caught off guard with all 711 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: the cameras in her face and how edited the video was. 712 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: Beyond that, it was Hey, listen, we're talking about the 713 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: small business applications, so that's a good thing for Biden 714 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: and anything to get him off the documents case. That's 715 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: also a good thing. So he may not be in 716 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: Davos with the champagne, but he's having burgers and that's better. 717 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: But is that how you connect with people at this 718 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: point whereck you know the power of social media? This 719 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: is what every corporation is trying to do, right, Get 720 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: some short form videos out there, get a bunch of 721 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: people to retweet it. This is actually how it's more 722 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: effective in many cases. And buying TV, oh for sure. 723 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean this is kind of buying TV and uh 724 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: and but it's a very modern way to get out 725 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: your message. And and and the reality is you don't want 726 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: to lose connection with the American people when you're president 727 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: United States, and so finding ways of connecting with them 728 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: something that they would do normally. Go to grocery store, 729 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: just be careful that you get that price of bread right, 730 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: and don't order a Hamburger right. And and I think 731 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,240 Speaker 1: these are the kinds of things that frankly American public 732 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: are hoping the president does every now and then. I mean, 733 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: if I were president, I'd order from Ghostburger for sure. 734 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: And when he does it, they're like, go Joe. That's great. 735 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,399 Speaker 1: That's the old Joe. We know you're here a little 736 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: bit different than Donald Trump. Not only did he like 737 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: his burgers I think at the Trump Hotel, Gennie, but 738 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: he wants he wanted them to be well done. That's right, 739 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: that's right. And you know what, listen with all the 740 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: talk of gas stoves today and what's happening, but that 741 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: this is a good thing for the Biden administration to 742 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: put out. And I don't know what I'm gonna cook 743 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: on that. The check is is that what Ghostburger is 744 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 1: doing and they cooking on gas. This is like a 745 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: whole new controversy you just started. Good Lord, you have 746 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: to call it or do some reporting. But it is true. 747 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: It cuts through even some of the sillier stories like 748 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 1: that one Rick, and is the contrast against Davos Worth something. 749 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: I feel like that's probably good for the president as 750 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 1: well as he at least tries to be blue collar. Joe. Yeah, 751 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: I think this is a great way to fill some 752 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: of the press vacuum him. I mean, it's been very 753 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: negative on him since the election, with the disclosure of 754 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: the documents case, and and so he needed a day 755 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: off from the negative media that that has surrounded him, 756 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: and and and I would say the one thing that 757 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: has been really interesting about Davos is it hasn't competed 758 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: to make any news true. Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano, 759 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: great conversation. Yeah, they're cooking on gas while looking at 760 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: these burgers. Does anyone listening to this not want of 761 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: cheeseburger and fries right now? Put in the order, listen 762 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: to Daybreak Asia, subscribe to the podcast This Is Bloomberg,