WEBVTT - Expert Testimonies | BONUS

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, it's Stephanie. In this bonus episode, I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>share some parts of the June tenth trial we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get to in episode seven. Ultimately, you know how this

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<v Speaker 1>trial ends. Judge Mata ruled in Clayton's favor and referred

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<v Speaker 1>the matter to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review

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<v Speaker 1>of Laura Owens's actions. This family court trial was jam

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<v Speaker 1>packed because there was a two hour time limit, So

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<v Speaker 1>in this bonus episode, I wanted to go back to

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<v Speaker 1>the experts testimonies. Laura Owens's team brought in doctor Michael Medchill,

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<v Speaker 1>a retired OBGYN who said he had delivered over twenty

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<v Speaker 1>thousand babies before the trial. Doctor Medschill reviewed medical records

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<v Speaker 1>provided by David Jingris and reached a notable conclusion.

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Medschill, based on your review of Laura's medical records

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<v Speaker 2>that you've identified in your report, did you form any

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<v Speaker 2>opinions at all regarding whether or not she was pregnant

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty three at any time?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I believe she was pregnant with over ninety nine

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<v Speaker 3>percent probability.

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<v Speaker 1>But the validity of the medical records doctor Medschell reviewed

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<v Speaker 1>were a point of contention.

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<v Speaker 3>You understand, Laura has admitted to faking medical records in

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<v Speaker 3>this case.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, this became a central point of dispute during cross examination,

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<v Speaker 1>especially because Laura had already admitted under oath both at

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<v Speaker 1>her deposition and again on June tenth, to doctoring medical records.

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<v Speaker 1>But there was something even more stunning about doctor Medschell's testimony,

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<v Speaker 1>a moment that became infamous in coverage of the case.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's David Jingers.

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<v Speaker 2>During the trial, mister Eckert has said that he doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>believe that a pregnancy was possible here because there was

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<v Speaker 2>no intercourse. Do you have an opinion about that? Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>regarding general, not regarding him or her, but in general.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's said that men are like basketball players. They

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<v Speaker 3>dribble before they shoot. They also dribble afterwards. And if

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<v Speaker 3>you are rubbing genitalia together, it is possible to get pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>After this moment that later became etched into the lore

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<v Speaker 1>of this trial, Jingers asked doctor Medschill to address the

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<v Speaker 1>elephant in the room head on, and he doubled down.

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<v Speaker 2>How much weight would you assign to the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>mister Ecker denied sexual intercourse. Is that significant to the

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<v Speaker 2>question of whether she was pregnant or is it a

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<v Speaker 2>minor point.

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<v Speaker 3>It has nothing to do with whether she was pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>This testimony gave me pause. I always understood penetrative sex

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<v Speaker 1>to be a near universal precursor to conception, so I

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<v Speaker 1>called my own expert.

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<v Speaker 4>My name is doctor Marissa Weiss. I'm a board certified OBGIN.

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<v Speaker 4>I currently am practicing in the space of infertility, which

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<v Speaker 4>into so specialty fellowship in.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Weiss specializes in infertility which means she works with

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<v Speaker 1>the science of conception every day.

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<v Speaker 4>Probably the most common comment I get from my patients

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<v Speaker 4>again who are patients who are actively trying to conceive,

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<v Speaker 4>is how surprised people are at the likelihood of conception

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<v Speaker 4>on any given month. You know, when we are given

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<v Speaker 4>kind of sex at in middle school, we're led to

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<v Speaker 4>believe that if you have untregeted intercourse, there's basically a

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<v Speaker 4>one hundred percent chance you're getting pregnant. But in reality,

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<v Speaker 4>even with intentional, well timed intercourse around the time of ovulation,

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<v Speaker 4>your odds of pregnancy on any good month or twenty percent.

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<v Speaker 4>Contrary to kind of what we're told in middle school,

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<v Speaker 4>and high school on any given month, it's more likely

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<v Speaker 4>that you won't get pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>Importantly, what doctor Weiss is talking about here is vaginal intercourse,

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<v Speaker 1>not oral sex, and there is a huge caveat that.

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<v Speaker 1>Penetrative sex also has to occur at the time of ovulation,

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<v Speaker 1>which means there's a small window on any given month

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<v Speaker 1>that a person can conceive. Another part of trial that

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<v Speaker 1>was stuck in my head was the detail about Laura

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<v Speaker 1>running to the bathroom after the blowjob?

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<v Speaker 2>Where did you complete our mouth both times?

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<v Speaker 3>What happened the same second time?

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<v Speaker 2>She ran straight to the bathroom.

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<v Speaker 1>Wouldn'tick told me he always found it to be a

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<v Speaker 1>suspicious detail in the chain of events. Would Nick said

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<v Speaker 1>he never ruled out a kind of spit maneuver. But

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<v Speaker 1>I wondered if it was even possible for someone to

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<v Speaker 1>impregnate themselves this way. So I asked doctor Weiss if

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<v Speaker 1>sperm could even survive that long.

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<v Speaker 4>Sperm motility decreases within minutes in the saliva, and most

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<v Speaker 4>sperm are kind of immobilizer dead within fifteen to thirty minutes,

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<v Speaker 4>So in some extent, it kind of depends on how

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<v Speaker 4>long is you know, elapsing between the ejaculation and then

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<v Speaker 4>the collection. In theory, if you did it within seconds

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<v Speaker 4>or minutes, even I guess there's a slight chance. But

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<v Speaker 4>again then you also run into all the other things

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<v Speaker 4>has to be around the time, bobulation and everything else,

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<v Speaker 4>so it's kind of a Swiss cheese model. A lot

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<v Speaker 4>of things have to line up in order for it

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<v Speaker 4>to happen. But theoretically, if within a couple minutes of

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<v Speaker 4>ejaculation into someone's mouth, they to collect the sperm and

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<v Speaker 4>put it in the vagina, either you know, via some

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<v Speaker 4>ki badginal insemination or elsewise, and they happened to be

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<v Speaker 4>on a tomicvogulation, there's still a small chance of pregnancy,

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<v Speaker 4>but again the odds are I would say, probably less

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<v Speaker 4>than one percent.

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<v Speaker 1>So it seems unlikely that a spit maneuver would have

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<v Speaker 1>resulted in a pregnancy at all.

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<v Speaker 3>But hang on for a second.

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<v Speaker 2>She came over to your house, she gave you oral

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<v Speaker 2>sex twice. The next day you told her you weren't

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<v Speaker 2>interested in her. That's correct, I rejected her. Yes, And

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<v Speaker 2>then four days later what happened. Four days later she

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<v Speaker 2>started making claims that she could possibly be pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>And then eleven days after they hooked up, Laura claimed

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<v Speaker 1>she'd taken a positive pregnancy test. She was taking one

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<v Speaker 1>of those at home tests where you pee on the stick.

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<v Speaker 1>Laura's was positive, and as we know, Laura later went

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<v Speaker 1>to an urgent care and had another test which confirmed

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<v Speaker 1>she had an elevated hCG level. I asked doctor Weiss

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<v Speaker 1>to explain more about how hc works and why it's

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<v Speaker 1>often used as an early pregnancy test.

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<v Speaker 4>HGG levels rise exponentially in early pregnancy and then generally

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<v Speaker 4>half every forty eight hours once a pregnancy has ended,

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<v Speaker 4>so you're in pregnancy test to text the pregnancy hormone,

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<v Speaker 4>which is hCG. Depending on what type of test you have,

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<v Speaker 4>there's somewhat of a range of detection. The early response

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<v Speaker 4>tests can detect at a lower level of HDG, which

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<v Speaker 4>lets you detect kind of earlier in pregnancy, or put

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<v Speaker 4>another way, sooner after ovulation. But they're detecting HGG in

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<v Speaker 4>the urine, so the HGG level has to achieve a

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<v Speaker 4>certain amount in the bloodstream before reaching the urine. If

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<v Speaker 4>you're testing with your in pregnancy test. For most people,

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<v Speaker 4>it's kind of most reliable within twelve to fourteen days

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<v Speaker 4>after ovulation. Obviously, after a mis period, which is generally

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<v Speaker 4>fourteen days plus after ovulation, is even more accurate.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Weiss explained that hCG is a hormone you can inject,

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<v Speaker 1>and if someone did inject it, they could test positive

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<v Speaker 1>for pregnancy on a urine test, even if they weren't pregnant.

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<v Speaker 4>There's medication specifically that we use in fertility treatment in

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<v Speaker 4>which we give patients synthetic HDG. So if they were

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<v Speaker 4>to take that injection as prescribed by their fertility doctor

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<v Speaker 4>and then do your own pregnancy test, it would come

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<v Speaker 4>back positive.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Weiss sometimes sees false positives with her patients who

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<v Speaker 1>take at home tests. Some other medications that have been

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<v Speaker 1>known to raise hCG levels can produce a false positive,

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<v Speaker 1>and then there are anomalies ways in that home test

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<v Speaker 1>can fail.

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<v Speaker 4>There's something called evaporation lines, which if you kind of

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<v Speaker 4>the instructions on your pregnancy test tell you exactly how

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<v Speaker 4>long to wait before interpreting the result. If you wait

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<v Speaker 4>longer than that period of time, you can get something

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<v Speaker 4>called an evaporation line, which is a faint line that can,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, oftentimes fool people to, you know, look initially

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<v Speaker 4>on the bathroom counter, see it to negative, and then

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<v Speaker 4>leave it there and then come back and be falsely

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<v Speaker 4>either positively or negatively.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Weiss stressed that conception is more difficult than we

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<v Speaker 1>were led to believe in high school sex set, and

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<v Speaker 1>that the most reliable way to test for pregnancy is

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<v Speaker 1>having an ultrasound in person with the doctor.

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<v Speaker 4>You'd ask me the hot tum question. I was ready

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<v Speaker 4>for that one.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for listening. Stay tuned for new

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<v Speaker 1>episodes and bonus content on the Love Trapped Feed