Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: All right, all right, welcome back.
Speaker 1: Make some noise. We're backing on our fest. Hey, it's Maya.
Speaker 1: Welcome to a very special episode of A slight Change
Speaker 1: of Plans. We recorded this conversation in front of a
Speaker 1: live audience at on AirFest, an event that brings people
Speaker 1: together in Brooklyn every year to celebrate audio storytelling.
Speaker 3: Please welcome to the stage, Doctor Maya Shankar and Rachel Gross.
Speaker 1: Rachel Gross is an award winning science journalist who's written
Speaker 1: for outlets like The New York Times and National Geographic.
Speaker 1: I've heard people compare Rachel to Miss Frizzle, the beloved
Speaker 1: frizzy hair teacher from the PBS show The Magic School Bus.
Speaker 1: I totally get what they're saying. There's definitely something frizzlesque
Speaker 1: about Rachel's approach to science journalism. Her writing serves as
Speaker 1: that metaphorical shape shifting school bus, with the power to
Speaker 1: take readers deep into niche worlds, filling them with wonder
Speaker 1: and discovery. In twenty twenty four, Rachel unexpectedly became the
Speaker 1: subject of her own reporting when some strange things started
Speaker 1: happening in her body that she couldn't explain.
Speaker 2: I couldn't control my voice.
Speaker 3: Things were not coming out as I intended them, and
Speaker 3: my body wasn't moving as I was instructing it. It
Speaker 3: was like there's something getting lost from my brain to
Speaker 3: my body. I felt like an alien, impersonating myself.
Speaker 1: This is a story about suddenly feeling like a stranger
Speaker 1: to yourself and the curious work of figuring out what
Speaker 1: makes you you. I'm Maya Shunker and this is a
Speaker 1: slight change of plans, a show about who we are
Speaker 1: and who we become in the face of a big change.
Speaker 1: I of course had to start our conversation with a
Speaker 1: nod to Miss Frizzle. Fun side note, I too have
Speaker 1: been called Miss Frizzle, but it is because on a
Speaker 1: humid day my husband believes that I resemble this fictional character.
Speaker 2: To Miss Frizzles on stage is very powerful.
Speaker 1: And I've you know, flow dry and all help today.
Speaker 1: It was so interesting because when you look at your
Speaker 1: journey as a reporter, you studied fascinating things that I
Speaker 1: would say or maybe related to your life, but not
Speaker 1: necessarily where you are the subject of the reporting. And
Speaker 1: there was a recent episode in twenty twenty four where
Speaker 1: you ended up turning the camera on yourself because you
Speaker 1: had something that you had to figure out in your
Speaker 1: personal life. Let's go back to twenty twenty four when
Speaker 1: you first noticed that something was feeling a little bit
Speaker 1: off in your body. Tell me about that moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a pleasure to be here, Maya.
Speaker 3: It was late in May twenty twenty four, and over
Speaker 3: the course of a week, these like weird things started
Speaker 3: happening to my body that I couldn't fully explain. So,
Speaker 3: like my handwriting and typing started kind of being off,
Speaker 3: like really awkward and stilted. And when I like went running,
Speaker 3: instead of it sort of being this background activity like
Speaker 3: I could think my thoughts while running, I had to
Speaker 3: like force all my arms and my legs like pumped together.
Speaker 3: Like these automatic things were somehow becoming conscious. I go
Speaker 3: to karaoke every week, and I couldn't control my voice.
Speaker 3: Things were not coming out as I intended them, and
Speaker 3: my body wasn't moving as I was instructing it. It
Speaker 3: was like there's something getting lost from my brain to
Speaker 3: my body, and it kind of just intensified over a way.
Speaker 1: How did you find yourself explaining these symptoms in the moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, It's amazing how powerful denial can be. So
Speaker 3: I honestly never thought of anything neurological. I was just like,
Speaker 3: that's odd. I feel a little bit like awkward and shaky.
Speaker 3: And I told some friends and they were like, yeah,
Speaker 3: when I get stressed and anxious, I also mix up
Speaker 3: words or I have trouble typing. Why don't you like
Speaker 3: sleep on it? Give it a couple of days. And
Speaker 3: I was like, that sounds right. A friend even sent
Speaker 3: me an article that was like from WebMD that was
Speaker 3: like stress or stroke, and I like went.
Speaker 2: Through it and the answer was stress. That was like great.
Speaker 2: But I was like asking people in my life.
Speaker 3: I was telling them I felt off that week, which
Speaker 3: I think is a good instinct to maybe one as
Speaker 3: a reporter, and so I think I knew something was
Speaker 3: more wrong than it was outwardly showing because everyone's like,
Speaker 3: you sound fine. I could hear like a slur in
Speaker 3: my voice there, like I don't hear anything. And over
Speaker 3: the course of the week, it was like my body
Speaker 3: had kind of figured it out before my brain had.
Speaker 3: So my heart was like beating faster a troublesleep being,
Speaker 3: and I kind of started like bursting into tears randomly,
Speaker 3: and that, honestly like clued me in that this was
Speaker 3: something important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you feel that your symptoms were intensifying with
Speaker 1: each subsequent day?
Speaker 3: They were eventually got to the point where I tried
Speaker 3: to like write in my journal and I couldn't read
Speaker 3: my own writing. It was like chicken scratch and I
Speaker 3: couldn't stop my body from kind of having a panic attack.
Speaker 3: So I ended up going to urgent care, and that's
Speaker 3: how I eventually learned that I had a bleed in
Speaker 3: the back of my brain, which I didn't realize at
Speaker 3: the time, but it was a stroke.
Speaker 1: So wow, when you first heard, oh my god, you
Speaker 1: have a stroke, what was your initial reaction.
Speaker 2: Well, the way it was put to me, it was interesting.
Speaker 3: It was like they did a CT scan and the
Speaker 3: PA was like, honey, you have a bleed in the
Speaker 3: back of your brain, but the good news is this
Speaker 3: explains your symptoms.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, So I really went into shop.
Speaker 3: To be honest, I was in shock for a little while,
Speaker 3: and I was in hospital room like on a stroke
Speaker 3: ward and my family came and I still couldn't process
Speaker 3: the news. It was kind of how the fact that
Speaker 3: they were so serious and terrified. Kind of helped me
Speaker 3: realize the gravity of the situation. Yeah, it was just
Speaker 3: so foreign to me. I'd never thought about brain stuff.
Speaker 3: That's really weird to say. As a science journalist, everything
Speaker 3: I write about is all like down here in the pelvis,
Speaker 3: and it was just unfathomable. And I think that's why
Speaker 3: nobody guessed it over the course of the week, Like,
Speaker 3: why would you think that a healthy thirty five year
Speaker 3: old woman who was literally writing articles, running, going to
Speaker 3: karaoke would ever be having a stroke at the same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One thing that was so fascinating is that doctors told
Speaker 1: you you actually got que quite lucky when it came
Speaker 1: to the part of your brain that was affected by
Speaker 1: the stroke. What exactly did they tell.
Speaker 3: You, Yeah, that's right. It was basically like I won
Speaker 3: the stroke lottery. They said, this is cerebellum and I
Speaker 3: was like, what is that. I have no idea what
Speaker 3: that means. And they were like, fortunately, it's a part
Speaker 3: of the brain that kind of does motor stuff, which
Speaker 3: again explains your motor symptoms, your trouble with fine movement.
Speaker 3: It's like aha, And they said, eventually you will have
Speaker 3: to get a surgery, but when you wake up, you'd
Speaker 3: be clumsy, but you'll still be you. And I took
Speaker 3: that as very reassuring. One surgeon said, if I had
Speaker 3: a stroke, I would want it to be in the cerebellum,
Speaker 3: and I was like, that's I guess great.
Speaker 2: Like I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I got that this was such a lucky thing to happen,
Speaker 3: but I guess I'll hold onto that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when the doctor said you will still be you,
Speaker 1: how did you process that given you felt very much
Speaker 1: not like you in the preceding week.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, I didn't know what to think because
Speaker 3: I was in the middle of a totally acute crisis
Speaker 3: and I absolutely did not feel like me. Besides the
Speaker 3: motor stuff, I also felt like the gears of my
Speaker 3: brain were kind of like running through molasses at the end,
Speaker 3: Like it was really difficult for me to hold on
Speaker 3: to conversation and to pay attention, to focus and to
Speaker 3: find the right word, which obviously feels quite cognitive. So
Speaker 3: on the one hand, I am like really clinging to
Speaker 3: any reassurance that I can get and to this idea
Speaker 3: that this could explain most of my symptoms, But in
Speaker 3: the back of my head, no pun intended. I think
Speaker 3: I was, like, there's something wrong. My brain is injured.
Speaker 3: I can feel the difference, and I have no experience
Speaker 3: with this. So what I don't know is how much
Speaker 3: the brain can bounce back, how much it can heal.
Speaker 3: I've just never been through anything like this, but like,
Speaker 3: I'm scared yea. So it kind of went between like
Speaker 3: trying to comfort myself and being like this is truly
Speaker 3: an unknown.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the areas that I've explored as a
Speaker 1: cognitive scientist is psychological essentialism, and it's basically almost a
Speaker 1: philosophical inquiry into what makes each of us us right?
Speaker 1: So is or maya essence is the Rachel essence right?
Speaker 1: What does it even mean to feel like ourselves? And
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know in what way did you not
Speaker 1: feel like Rachel? Was it simply, oh, I can identify
Speaker 1: these five impairments and that makes me feel not like me?
Speaker 1: Or did it feel almost like a binary shift? Like
Speaker 1: I can't quite even put my finger on it, but
Speaker 1: I simply don't feel like myself. I would not be
Speaker 1: able to describe on a checklist all the ways in
Speaker 1: which I'm not feeling like myself.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all that's a mind blowing field and
Speaker 3: I totally want to learn more about that, especially now.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it depends at what point because I was
Speaker 3: still processing how to make sense of all this, But
Speaker 3: I guess after the show for them months afterwards, it
Speaker 3: was like I had pictured myself like many people probably
Speaker 3: picture this Discardian mind body divide, where like, my mind
Speaker 3: exists and it controls my body, which is my flesh cage.
Speaker 3: And there was some like again breakdown in the transmission
Speaker 3: from like my control commands to the body, and like,
Speaker 3: I didn't anticipate how off that would make me feel,
Speaker 3: so let me thank like how it changed my sense
Speaker 3: of self.
Speaker 1: For example, if I had waved a magic wand and
Speaker 1: some of the impairments resolved themselves, let's say three out
Speaker 1: of five of the biggest impairments, would that have made
Speaker 1: you feel closer to feeling like Rachel or do you
Speaker 1: think again it was more just like a categorical shift,
Speaker 1: like until everything's resolved, they're just not going to feel
Speaker 1: like my old self, or there's something just separate from
Speaker 1: even the neurological impairments that's making me feel different.
Speaker 3: No, it would have helped, and I think it has
Speaker 3: helped over time, as I have recovered a lot of
Speaker 3: it back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was really.
Speaker 3: This delay and this distance between how I saw myself
Speaker 3: in my head and how I was conceptualizing myself and
Speaker 3: what was coming out and how I was coming off
Speaker 3: to people. So it's partly like how I'm being perceived,
Speaker 3: how my intentions are like manifesting in real life, and
Speaker 3: the amount of effort it's taking to honestly like performed myself.
Speaker 3: I felt like an alien impersonating myself. Even like being
Speaker 3: in the subway trying to get into a subway train,
Speaker 3: I had to be like, wait, you need to go
Speaker 3: to the right. Wait, you're going to hit someone. Wait,
Speaker 3: you need to keep focused on the subway car. So
Speaker 3: I was having this internal dialogue. I felt like jerky
Speaker 3: and off and not kind of smooth and fluid and
Speaker 3: at one with my body and with my surroundings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like so many of the things that it
Speaker 1: felt effortless that were the results of unconscious processing were
Speaker 1: now the result of very deliberate conscious processing, And that
Speaker 1: you're used to being the conductor of your body and mind,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, like the orchestra is not
Speaker 1: paying attention. It's like, hello, musicians, violinists, feelss, why aren't
Speaker 1: you playing when you're supposed to do? Like you're off tempo? Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And that's exactly how I described it. It
Speaker 3: was like I hadn't realized there was an invisible conductor
Speaker 3: that was doing all this choreography behind the scenes and
Speaker 3: making it feel smooth and seemless. Now the seams were
Speaker 3: showing and I was kind of now to switch the metaphor,
Speaker 3: I was like a puppet master, pulling each string individually,
Speaker 3: and that took a lot of conscious effort. It was
Speaker 3: like everything was unconscious kind of bubbled up to the
Speaker 3: surface and became within my awareness, which, let me tell you,
Speaker 3: is exhausting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I obviously cannot relate in any way to the
Speaker 1: magnitude of what you endured, but I have a little
Speaker 1: anecdote that makes me empathize with what you went through,
Speaker 1: which is I had a career ending violin injury, and
Speaker 1: I remember, after years and years of not being able
Speaker 1: to play in multiple surgeries, I picked back up my
Speaker 1: instrument and my mind had not forgotten how to play
Speaker 1: the mentals and violin concerto.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It was it felt like effortless, and I knew exactly
Speaker 1: how I would phrase it and what my finger should do,
Speaker 1: and yet my brain had lost all the muscle memory
Speaker 1: around how to actually play the instrument, and I would
Speaker 1: get so frustrated not being able to translate what was
Speaker 1: in my head into the actual mut that I was producing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's exactly it.
Speaker 3: I'm really glad you actually used that imagery, if you
Speaker 3: do understand. I literally felt like I'd been handed an
Speaker 3: out of tune instrument because suddenly I was doing the
Speaker 3: same things mentally and it wasn't producing what I was
Speaker 3: used to. And that's definitely what I felt in karaoko.
Speaker 3: It was like I know how to listen to a
Speaker 3: note and just like repeat it and make the same
Speaker 3: sound come out, Like I know how to perform this,
Speaker 3: and suddenly it was like I don't know what's coming
Speaker 3: out of me. I can't do all these things at once.
Speaker 3: Like again, I kind of felt like an alien. I
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, this isn't me.
Speaker 1: I'm so interested to explore something that you mentioned, which
Speaker 1: is you felt like you had to be an actress
Speaker 1: of sorts when it came to engaging with your community,
Speaker 1: right your friends and family, and I imagine that you
Speaker 1: were presenting to them as normal, but we're feeling at
Speaker 1: the same time massively impaired. What did that look like
Speaker 1: in daily life? And how did you figure out how
Speaker 1: to get your community to catch up to what your
Speaker 1: mind knew about your actual state.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the challenge because like in some conditions,
Speaker 3: I think maybe it was a little bit more obvious.
Speaker 3: So in karaoke, like everything is kind of magnified, like
Speaker 3: you're on stage as a spotlight. And I guess I
Speaker 3: didn't realize until then, but my stage name is Rikira,
Speaker 3: and I do a.
Speaker 2: Lot of hip stuff.
Speaker 3: Apparently, like unconsciously, I'm always just like rolling my hips
Speaker 3: and just like shaking my ass and everything.
Speaker 2: So and like that wasn't happening anymore.
Speaker 3: So I'd be on stage and suddenly like be aware, like, oh,
Speaker 3: the audience looks kind of bored. Maybe you should shake
Speaker 3: a little or like shimmy Rachel and be like, oh, wait,
Speaker 3: you have to keep singing at the same time, like wait,
Speaker 3: sing the words, and I'd like focus really hard on
Speaker 3: the screen and I just like standing there woodenly, and
Speaker 3: when you're doing that and you're singing, like I touch
Speaker 3: myself by Da Vinil's It's not really going to like
Speaker 3: sell the song I'd I learned, so I'd have like
Speaker 3: these awkward moments from like I'm really not getting like
Speaker 3: the applause that I usually do, Like something's not working.
Speaker 3: But in my regular life, Yeah, people didn't notice, even
Speaker 3: my closest friends and family, which was very like alienating.
Speaker 3: So I got a ton of reassurance that I looked
Speaker 3: and seemed fine, which like on the one hand, like
Speaker 3: good on the other hand, than what is happening internally?
Speaker 3: What is this discrepancy, this like chasm between what I
Speaker 3: feel and what people notice. And what I learned is
Speaker 3: that like, if you do have to perform yourself, you
Speaker 3: kind of can do it pretty well because you know
Speaker 3: your mannerisms, how you move through the world, you know
Speaker 3: the stories you tell and how people react, and if
Speaker 3: you have to pull every lever yourself, you can. But
Speaker 3: it's very exhausting and it's very isolating. As someone who's
Speaker 3: an extrovert and like really craves like deep connection with people,
Speaker 3: I wasn't getting that I was just performing and like
Speaker 3: hoping they didn't notice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what is sobering high level observation, which is, Wow,
Speaker 1: even the people with whom we think we have the
Speaker 1: most intimate connections, are they really only getting a snapshot
Speaker 1: of who we are and any given moments such that
Speaker 1: you could pass as quote normal, Rachel, your cognitive impairments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was definitely an instance of like passing was the
Speaker 3: word that came to mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 3: That was like a philosophical kind of disturbing question I had.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, I think that people have a
Speaker 3: lot of unconscious cognitive processes themselves to reassure themselves that
Speaker 3: the situation is okay. They're kind of like filling in
Speaker 3: the gaps and kind of projecting what they know about you.
Speaker 3: People started like finishing my sentences and cutting me off
Speaker 3: all the time because I was slower to you complete
Speaker 3: it myself, or I couldn't find the word, and they
Speaker 3: didn't notice that was happening. They just thought I had
Speaker 3: finished the sentence and they knew what I was going
Speaker 3: to say anyways, And I was like, this is interesting.
Speaker 3: That's not where I was going to go with that,
Speaker 3: But I'm observing this now.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is so fascinating. Yeah, you're saying
Speaker 1: if you love someone, your protective instincts are going to
Speaker 1: go into full gear in order to protect yourself from
Speaker 1: the devastating truth that this loved one might be, you know,
Speaker 1: impaired in some way. You just figure out how not
Speaker 1: to see it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you put that beautifully. But I will say,
Speaker 3: like I think there's.
Speaker 2: It was your idea, some mispriss all.
Speaker 3: I mean, stop, no you, But I think there's like
Speaker 3: love in that gesture, right, because like they were also
Speaker 3: seeing a part of me that I was having trouble accessing.
Speaker 3: And like it's true I was in there, and like
Speaker 3: I was recovering over time, so parts of me were
Speaker 3: not accessible and not being expressed. But like it was
Speaker 3: being around people that knew be the most that helped
Speaker 3: bring that out. So like there is beauty in it,
Speaker 3: it's not there's devastation as well. I definitely don't like
Speaker 3: to sugarcoat, but like I'm also grateful because I was
Speaker 3: eventually able to access a little more of that and
Speaker 3: like they kind of like bullied me during that.
Speaker 1: After the break, Rachel's cauriosity leads her on a magic
Speaker 1: school bus ride into her own brain. We'll be right
Speaker 1: back with a slight change of plans. Rachel's stroke affected
Speaker 1: a part of the brain called the sarahbellum. Doctor said
Speaker 1: her motor function would be affected, but outside of that
Speaker 1: she should expect to feel more or less like herself.
Speaker 1: But the problem was that Rachel didn't feel at all
Speaker 1: like herself. Everyday behaviors things that had once felt so automatic,
Speaker 1: like how to laugh at an appropriate volume or how
Speaker 1: to articulate her thoughts out loud, now required thinking an effort.
Speaker 1: Rachel had questions, and so she did the one thing
Speaker 1: she knew to do in situations like these, She put
Speaker 1: on her journalist's hat. And this frizzled it.
Speaker 3: But I definitely remember literally being in the hospital room
Speaker 3: and asking for more research on the cerebellum and being
Speaker 3: handed a paper that said, this part of the brain
Speaker 3: is ineloquent and redundant and it doesn't have a role
Speaker 3: in language recognition and it's safe to operate.
Speaker 2: In so have bad it, guys.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I just remember at that moment, like again my
Speaker 3: thinking was pretty impaired, but just being like huh, Like
Speaker 3: how can they say what it doesn't do? Because like,
Speaker 3: how do you really know what any part of the
Speaker 3: brain does. It's all like mysterious and interconnected. Like to
Speaker 3: definitively say that it doesn't do that sounds weird, but
Speaker 3: I kind of realized that, like that was the party line.
Speaker 3: But there was this whole like cadre of neuroscientists who
Speaker 3: were questioning it and saying, like, actually, the cerebellum might
Speaker 3: be more interconnected and central than we thought. And it's
Speaker 3: called the downstairs brain, but it's connected to the upstairs
Speaker 3: brain in a way that we didn't realize until recently.
Speaker 3: And it seems like summarizing all these scientists I talk to,
Speaker 3: every kind of thought and gesture and emotion before it
Speaker 3: makes its way from inside your brain to outside, it
Speaker 3: kind of passes through this part of the brain.
Speaker 2: It's like the unionstation of the brain.
Speaker 3: And so something's happening where this thought gets transformed in
Speaker 3: some way. We're not exactly sure how, but it might
Speaker 3: be some kind of polishing or refining process to make
Speaker 3: it more appropriate to the situation, so that by the
Speaker 3: time it leaves your brain it's kind of what you intended.
Speaker 3: And all this is happening unconsciously, like we're saying, this
Speaker 3: is all automatic in the background, So you can imagine
Speaker 3: that when it gets damaged suddenly, like all those tiny
Speaker 3: little tweaks now are conscious and it's just like overwhelming,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, learning that made me really appreciate
Speaker 3: what ceahbellum had been doing, and like, I do hope
Speaker 3: that's something that people get out of this. And it
Speaker 3: also it made me feel like it's kind of this
Speaker 3: connective tissue between like mind and body and between you
Speaker 3: and your environment.
Speaker 2: It's like working at that interface between the two.
Speaker 1: Before you found out that the cerebellum might play this
Speaker 1: critical role, and you just got that paper saying the
Speaker 1: cerebellum doesn't do anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you almost.
Speaker 1: Feel like the science was gaslighting you or that I
Speaker 1: was denying or undermining your experience in some way? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it is funny because most of my
Speaker 3: reporting is on medical gaslighting and is on diseases that
Speaker 3: are considered to be all in your head or to
Speaker 3: be no big deal that turnout have like.
Speaker 2: A very physical basis.
Speaker 3: So it was very odd to be put in the
Speaker 3: patient perspective, to put it mildly, I don't know, to
Speaker 3: be like I was still putting it together because I
Speaker 3: was still being told by everyone around me, including every neurologist,
Speaker 3: like they're giving me cognitive tests or saying you're cognitively intact,
Speaker 3: you look perfect, you're graduating from occupational therapy, physical therapy.
Speaker 3: So like, by their stay, it's true, this part of
Speaker 3: the brain wasn't crucial, and like I am able to
Speaker 3: speak and write again, but then like there's something weird.
Speaker 3: There's still a chasm between my experience and when I'm
Speaker 3: being told, and I think I was still figuring it
Speaker 3: out rather than feeling gas lit. There was one moment
Speaker 3: where I had started like misfrizzling and like calling scientists,
Speaker 3: and I talked to a speech therapist who specifically worked
Speaker 3: on singing and the cerebellum, and she was telling me, yeah,
Speaker 3: all my cerebella patients, they're.
Speaker 2: Really fatigued, like exhausted.
Speaker 3: And it's not because like this is the part of
Speaker 3: the brain that causes more fatigue. It's because suddenly, like
Speaker 3: instead of being on autopilot, they're on manual, so they're
Speaker 3: thinking each thing out loud. And the most extreme or
Speaker 3: obvious way I can explain it is when I was
Speaker 3: learning to walk again after surgery, I had to literally
Speaker 3: tell my feet. I was like, you need to put
Speaker 3: your weight on the inner corners of your feet, which
Speaker 3: if you've ever learned to like ice skater, roller skate,
Speaker 3: that's something that you started being consciously and later becomes
Speaker 3: muscle memory, like you were mentioning. So it's like I
Speaker 3: lost the muscle memory. So that's like there are things
Speaker 3: that are much more subtle, but that's kind of the
Speaker 3: most obvious, I think, way to explain what the Sarah
Speaker 3: Beltan's doing.
Speaker 1: You know, after a big incident like this one, obviously
Speaker 1: one can feel gratitude. Okay, I'm grateful it wasn't worse.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful on having, you know, a pretty significant recovery here,
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm surpassing expectations by my doctors. But there's
Speaker 1: also the reality of, oh wow, I'm a working professional,
Speaker 1: I'm a science journalist. I'm not working with the same
Speaker 1: raw materials I had before. How did you adapt to
Speaker 1: this new mental state that was constantly in flux? Right?
Speaker 1: You don't know how much you're going to improve over
Speaker 1: a three month period or six month period. And you know,
Speaker 1: not everyone here has had a stroke, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people have dealt with some kind of loss that
Speaker 1: set them back in some way or prevented them from
Speaker 1: doing what they love. And so I'm curious to know
Speaker 1: what your approach was.
Speaker 3: I think it's a really good way of putting it.
Speaker 3: It was really dealing with the unknown that was the scariest.
Speaker 2: This is part of whatever.
Speaker 3: I want to call it, my thinking brain, the brain
Speaker 3: I value, the brain that I think of as I.
Speaker 3: So now how do I incorporate that into my identity?
Speaker 3: And Yeah, it made me do a lot of soul
Speaker 3: searching about what I value and what I valued about
Speaker 3: my quickness of processing, and about my kind of fluency
Speaker 3: in the world of science and literature and journalism. Like I,
Speaker 3: like probably many people in this room, I was very
Speaker 3: much like brought up to value high academic achievement. My
Speaker 3: parents were all scientists. I didn't get into that, but like,
Speaker 3: my dad's a theoretical physicist. My mom's a doctor researcher.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, stop stop this guzzle.
Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics, that's matter physics.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I don't understand it at all. I just know what
Speaker 1: he does. Oh my goodness. I even say, people whose
Speaker 1: dads are theoretical physicists, Okay, keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I shaped some very odd progeny so odd curious,
Speaker 3: and mom's a doctor and my stepmom's a molecular biologists.
Speaker 3: So I think hard science was really pushed on me,
Speaker 3: and like it ended up because I big a science journalists,
Speaker 3: Like a lot of my job relies on convincing PhD
Speaker 3: scientists that I am smart enough to understand that their
Speaker 3: latest research that they have spent twenty years mastering, and
Speaker 3: to like distill it and translate it to the public
Speaker 3: without screwing up while stroking their ego while I'm interviewing them.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of emotional and other forms of
Speaker 3: technical intelligence going on. And yeah, it was a total
Speaker 3: panic of like, can I still, I don't know, maintain
Speaker 3: this like status and do what I love?
Speaker 2: And it was also a realization.
Speaker 3: Of what I love about all this, Like I love
Speaker 3: being a bridge between science and the public. I love
Speaker 3: getting to know scientists really closely as like these interesting, quirky,
Speaker 3: flawed characters like miss Brissil, and I do love communicating,
Speaker 3: whether that's public speaking or whatever, and I didn't want
Speaker 3: to lose that. But I think like the deeper fear
Speaker 3: in there was kind of losing my connection to people
Speaker 3: period and through my writing and science fluency and like storytelling,
Speaker 3: that was how I just connected to the world and
Speaker 3: connected people deeply. And the idea that because I've lost
Speaker 3: some memory or the ability to like convey my personality
Speaker 3: or my humor, that I would just be more like
Speaker 3: isolated from people. I think that was the really the
Speaker 3: underlying fear.
Speaker 1: Did you have any adaptations you employed at.
Speaker 3: The time, Yeah, so I think fortunately I just started
Speaker 3: like over doing everything, like over reporting, overwriting, writing more
Speaker 3: stuff down, like writing down outlines to timelines, and I
Speaker 3: don't know, as a woman in a pretty male dominated
Speaker 3: field of science journals, something I'm pretty used to that
Speaker 3: doing like twice as much work to yeah, have the
Speaker 3: same cut.
Speaker 2: As someone else.
Speaker 3: But I guess I'm glad that I sort of experimented
Speaker 3: with what worked for me, and and I like, yes,
Speaker 3: I did need to find new systems and adaptations and
Speaker 3: kind of get to know my new brain even as
Speaker 3: it was evolving, and even though I didn't know exactly
Speaker 3: how what recovery was going to look like.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad I did that.
Speaker 3: I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the
Speaker 3: need to change, so I think I was so stuck
Speaker 3: in my brain and with this idea that I had
Speaker 3: to write the same amount the same kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: I had to ask myself hard questions like why do
Speaker 3: you need to perform at this level and do this
Speaker 3: much and be like this much smarter and impress this
Speaker 3: many people?
Speaker 1: Like what.
Speaker 2: Is this?
Speaker 3: What gives you value in the world? And do you
Speaker 3: expect to keep doing this until what? Like what is
Speaker 3: this going to get you? Eventually? So I spent a
Speaker 3: lot of energy resisting and trying to be who I
Speaker 3: was and just like struggling behind the scenes and treading
Speaker 3: water and losing sleep, which was especially bad with a
Speaker 3: brain injury, and like, honestly, I just hit a wall
Speaker 3: at some point and I had a breakdown, which involves
Speaker 3: like kind of losing some short term memory for like
Speaker 3: a short amount of time. And that was kind of
Speaker 3: a come to Jesus for me. I was like, I
Speaker 3: actually can't just run myself to the ground trying to
Speaker 3: perform myself in public life because I physically literally can't.
Speaker 3: It's going to hurt me in the long run, and
Speaker 3: like it's making me miserable. Yeah, and again I think, right,
Speaker 3: not everyone has had a stroke but I And but
Speaker 3: the experience of realizing you're not invincible, whether through aging
Speaker 3: or any confrontation with loss. Like, I think that's pretty relatable.
Speaker 3: It was just a little more extreme for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's one thing to have to come to
Speaker 1: Jesus moment, but it's another thing to actually practice changing
Speaker 1: these fundamental principles and these north stars that you've lived
Speaker 1: your whole life kind of shooting towards. Right. You said
Speaker 1: you grew up in a high intensity, high achievement oriented household.
Speaker 1: Tell me about so when you were asking yourself these
Speaker 1: really thought provoking questions like why do I need to
Speaker 1: perform at this level in order to feel valuable in
Speaker 1: this world? What were the answers that your brain was
Speaker 1: serving up? And then how did you actually force yourself
Speaker 1: to slow down and not be so bothered by it?
Speaker 3: I did know, deep down like some of the reasons
Speaker 3: that I perform like that. I know that just based
Speaker 3: on my personality and upbringing, Like I did want that
Speaker 3: external validation like so many of us.
Speaker 2: I did thrive on that.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 3: I I liked being able to have some sort of
Speaker 3: platform for like the work I do and care about,
Speaker 3: and be able to have my voice out there. For sure,
Speaker 3: maybe I always kind of lived under this pressure or
Speaker 3: fear of I don't know, disappointing. I think just like
Speaker 3: the only reason I wore a dress was because when
Speaker 3: I was introduced to your podcast, I was introduced as
Speaker 3: a well dressed journalist, and I didn't want to let
Speaker 3: you down.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to make sure that I'm showing up here.
Speaker 1: So thankfully I've never been called a well dressed host. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was going to do orys that I was allowed.
Speaker 3: To, but I Rachel who we did this for each
Speaker 3: other over two halves of the same person for yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: So I think I was partially like doing a lot
Speaker 3: for like the outer gaze or for like there was
Speaker 3: a person inside. There was an idea of who I
Speaker 3: should be in the world, right, And some of that
Speaker 3: comes to internally, some comes from external factors.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, being like an author and a public speaker kind
Speaker 3: of puts you in the public spotlight in a way
Speaker 3: that's weird and kind of warps your sense of self.
Speaker 3: And I did have to get back to like why
Speaker 3: do I love writing these stories?
Speaker 2: What's meaningful about it for me?
Speaker 3: And I know one thing I kept going back to
Speaker 3: was like authenticity, which I know is super overused. I
Speaker 3: used to be like really allergic to like aphorism and
Speaker 3: cliche and now I like draw a tarot card every
Speaker 3: day and do my yoga and I'm like authenticity and gratitude.
Speaker 2: But it is true that like.
Speaker 3: A lot of a lot of people can be very
Speaker 3: smart and synthesize things and still information. AI can do that, actually,
Speaker 3: but like when it comes to really both speaking your truth,
Speaker 3: and I would like to think that when I tell
Speaker 3: like patient stories in my work, like getting to the
Speaker 3: marrow of something and like a true lived experience or
Speaker 3: doing the best I can, like that takes a different
Speaker 3: skill set. That's something I really value on that I know,
Speaker 3: like speaks to people and to whatever extent I can do.
Speaker 2: That, Like I really really value that.
Speaker 3: Emotional connection, and so like the technical stuff, some of
Speaker 3: it is harder for me now.
Speaker 2: It was really interesting.
Speaker 3: Everyone's very I'm very obsessed with Alyssa lu the ice
Speaker 3: Ginter right, and I feel like part of the attraction.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of things that are really cool about her,
Speaker 3: but her fluidity and how at home she is in
Speaker 3: her body and how she's just like she's like performing
Speaker 3: joy and ease and fluidity and and like, in some sense,
Speaker 3: I still strive for that, like that's what I feel
Speaker 3: is missing in a lot of the way I move
Speaker 3: through the world now. But also I'm trying to come
Speaker 3: to peace with like maybe I'm not as fluid in
Speaker 3: this world and maybe like I'm a little more jerky
Speaker 3: and not as like great to watch on the ice, definitely,
Speaker 3: but like that it's okay to show up that way,
Speaker 3: and you're gonna draw different things out of people, and
Speaker 3: you're gonna appreciate the moments when you feel that like
Speaker 3: flow and being at one. You're gonna appreciate those moments
Speaker 3: a lot more because they're rare and you're aware of
Speaker 3: them now. And I think that's like maybe the biggest
Speaker 3: gift this is given to me is that heightened awareness
Speaker 3: of when things are flowing and when I feel like
Speaker 3: connected or like at one with an audience, in a
Speaker 3: room with a person. And I thought a lot about
Speaker 3: embodied cognition, the fact that we do like move through
Speaker 3: the world in a body, and I used to kind
Speaker 3: of dismiss these very physical activities that I do, like
Speaker 3: now yoga and running and singing, and now I think
Speaker 3: there's something very special about those moments where like body
Speaker 3: and mind come together and when you're like emotionally, physically
Speaker 3: and intellectually present, everything is kind of flowing or connected,
Speaker 3: and it's kind of there's like a for singers, there's
Speaker 3: like a space between your chest and your head voice.
Speaker 3: There's like a transition that's extra awkward and you're likely
Speaker 3: to like break your voice during that part, and it's
Speaker 3: kind of like the transition between updog and down dog
Speaker 3: and yoga. So there's these like times where it's like
Speaker 3: it demands a lot of you when it's very uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: But I think that if you can and like the
Speaker 3: gift is that you were fully present and alive in
Speaker 3: that moment and you're kind of in the world in
Speaker 3: a different way and experiencing it with a heightened awareness.
Speaker 3: And I think maybe that's also something that I feared
Speaker 3: losing with the stroke, was that presence and being aware
Speaker 3: and alive in the world.
Speaker 2: And so now I.
Speaker 3: Really really treasure those moments and those experiences, and I
Speaker 3: guess I appreciate my body more and I think of
Speaker 3: that as a type of intelligence, I guess, is what
Speaker 3: I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2: So I have a greater appreciation for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful. Thank you so much, Rachel forting for long.
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like we only just scratch the surface.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for joining us, and thanks.
Speaker 2: For time to be here. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Hard Hey, thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode, we hope you'll send it to someone who
Speaker 1: might resonate with Rachel's story, and if it moved you,
Speaker 1: be sure to leave a comment or review wherever you're listening.
Speaker 1: We love hearing from you, and any engagement with the
Speaker 1: show helps other people discover it. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a week with another episode of A Slight Change of Plans.
Speaker 1: I'll see you then. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written,
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change
Speaker 1: family includes our showrunner Alexandra Garratin, our editor Daphne Chen,
Speaker 1: our lead producer Megan Lubin, our associate producer Sonia Gerwitz,
Speaker 1: and our sound engineer Erica Huang. Luis Scara wrote our
Speaker 1: delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.
Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,
Speaker 1: So big thanks to everyone there, and of course a
Speaker 1: very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. And I have yet
Speaker 1: another Magic School Bus episode with my husband where I
Speaker 1: once had to get this horrible procedure called the laryn
Speaker 1: goscabee where they put tubes up your nose in order
Speaker 1: to put cameras down your throat in order to look
Speaker 1: at your vocal cords. So I was diagnosed with a
Speaker 1: problem called I get so excited when I talk, I
Speaker 1: forget to breathe syndrome, and so I had to do
Speaker 1: speech therapy for multiple months and I had to get
Speaker 1: the larrogospy because they were like, we don't know why
Speaker 1: your vocal cords are screwed up. And I'm like, I'll
Speaker 1: change my personality. I promise, And so I still remember
Speaker 1: my husband was in the exam room and as we're
Speaker 1: doing this horribly painful thing, he treated it like the
Speaker 1: Magic School Bus. He's like, whoa, there we go. Now
Speaker 1: we're going down into like there's her tongue, We're going
Speaker 1: to her throat. It's like, Jimmy, stop it