WEBVTT - Why These ETFs Died During a Bull Market 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:06.800 Welcome are Trallians. 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:11.680 I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernas. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:16.360 Eric, it's the time of the year where everybody gets 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.040 crazy costumes for Halloween and we have this annual tradition 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:24.480 of sorts on trillions where we talk about the ETF Graveyard. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.760 Every time this time of year roll's around. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:28.680 We do. 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:34.000 It feels right, and it's also good to look at 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.479 what didn't work and do a post mortem, why did 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.360 something not last? Sometimes these are shockers, and sometimes these 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.360 are totally expected, and some you just don't even notice, 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.400 you know, they just fade into oblivion and next thing 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.239 you know, you're in your team chat and you're like, 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:51.400 what in the hell happened to this? 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.000 And you pull it up and it's liquidated. And that 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:55.120 happens all the time, Joel. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.120 So this year there's about one hundred and fifty liquidations 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:04.000 which were already make it the third biggest year of liquidations. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.520 It's only got i mean still got a shot to 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.319 be the second and possibly the record, but we're in launches. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.800 This is crushing the record. So the gap between launches 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.960 and liquidations is actually pretty wide. Sometimes that gap shrinks 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.280 when the market's really rough because there's more liquidations, less launches. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:23.800 But I think that gap being wide also points to 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:29.160 how great the markets are. I mean, everything's up, gold, bitcoin, stocks, bonds, 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.840 name it. You know, it's having a good year. So 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.240 which tells me if you close this year, you. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.119 Must really be suck and wind. You know what I mean? 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.280 All right, So to help us take a tour of 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:43.039 this year, if. 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.520 You close this year, you have major issues. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.280 It's gonna it's a spooky laugh there from Eric. Yeah, okay, 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.040 So to help us take a tour of this year's 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:58.000 ETF graveyard, were joined by Vildana Hadric Across, asset reporter 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.560 with Bloomberg News, In Bluth, an ETF analyst with Verify, 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.840 and Athanasios Sara Vegas, an ETF analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence, 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:11.720 this time on. 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.119 Trillions the ETF grad. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.280 Todd vil Donna, Athanasios, Welcome back to Trillions. 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:26.919 Thanks for having us, Thanks for having us. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:28.120 Nice to see you guys. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.960 Okay, Eric, very high level. Were there any big takeaways 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:34.640 other than the numbers that jumped down to you? What 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.760 about themes or issuers or anything anything else specific. 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.120 You know, I was looking through the closures and it 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:47.080 was just so so much variety. If there was one 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:48.600 thing that I was shocked to see so much of 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.360 it was international, which kind of makes sense because of 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.880 all the things I said doing so well, one thing 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.320 that isn't doing great is international. It's okay, but some 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.320 countries have really just been like struggling for this whole. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.079 Like you know, in the US, everything's so wonderful and bullish, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.360 but not every country's like that. So there were a 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.679 good degree of international ones. Definitely some sustainable esg as 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.160 we predicted before it was cool, and then like some 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.320 thematic ETFs, you know, like work from home, that kind 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.040 of stuff that you know already feels kind of dated. 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.280 That's generally what I've found in here, but you know, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.639 you look through here, there are some there's much more 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.480 than that, but a very diverse group of ETFs here. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.840 I suppose one common thread would be that most of 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.760 them would be very tiny allocations in your portfolio. None 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.360 of these are like big vanilla stuff. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.839 All right, Todd, you brought some candy, I did. There's 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.880 a candy pack on the table. We're gonna be very 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.800 careful not to touch too much of the candy pack. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.000 But it's a combo of kit Kat, Twizzlers, Reeses and 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.560 Hershey fees on. How do you feel about this selection 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:55.920 of chocolate that Todd brought. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:57.760 I'm not thrilled with it. 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.120 I guess it's candy. It's more than chocolate. What's the 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:01.920 what's the high? 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.480 Swizzlers are no good? They are the same category for 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:07.640 me as Swedish fish, which I think are Yeah. 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.040 Okay, So there's something about red chewy stuff that you. 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.240 Let's say, your trick or treating. You go to his house. 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.680 He shows you this basketfull that you're allowed to pick. 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.480 Do you just walk away? Yeah? Yeah, for sure. I like, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.280 you know, thanks, And then what would you say if 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:24.839 that happened? 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.520 I would say, if you invite me someplace, I'm going 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.960 to bring a present, and you don't insult the present 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.760 that shows up front, You're gonna get a lecture when 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.360 you when you walk away, and when I walk back 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.320 out of the Bloomberg office, thanks for hosting me. You 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.599 can then talk about the candy all you want. I'm 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:44.520 gonna have the races because those are delicious. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:44.719 Okay. 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:45.839 The kit Cat is not bad? 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:46.160 Okay? 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:47.760 All right, So there may be some candy that we 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:52.360 bestow during this run Todd. Do you have a couple 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.680 ETFs off of this year's list that you'd like to discuss? 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.400 Well, I like that Eric front ran this by naming 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:59.920 one of them, So I'm not going to use that 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.640 work from Home ETF that was on my list because 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.240 he already took He already covered that, so I don't. 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.120 Since I think I only get a couple of bites 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.520 at the kit kat, I'm not gonna waste it on that. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.840 So I'm going to group a couple of them together 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.960 if I can. I think there were three cannabis ETFs 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:25.120 that closed Global X, Cannabis POTX, the Axis Cannabis ETF THHCX, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.640 and Subversive Cannabis ETF, which I think just launched a 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:34.120 year beforehand or just came to market LGLZ. We saw 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.400 a hope with MJ when it converted, and we saw 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:43.120 advisor shares have success with cannabis thematic ETFs, and then 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.839 we had eight or nine of them relatively quickly. Now 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.920 we have a lot fewer because they're in the graveyard 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.279 those cannabis ETF so MSOs is still about a billion 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.080 dollars I think roughly nine hundred million in assets, So 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.840 there is a leader clearly in this space. But three 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:02.839 ETFs just didn't make the cut. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.600 So you think that speaks to the there was just saturation, 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.440 and now we're to a point where the winners have 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.400 emerged and the losers are backing up. 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.200 Yes, I think there's a race to get into an 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.040 ETF space and try to differentiate, certainly in the thematic world, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.880 all taking a slightly different approach, and then the market 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.359 decides a couple of years later who's gonna make it 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.960 work and who's not gonna make it work, And three 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.599 three thematic ETFs, three cannabis ETFs didn't survive this year. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.720 I would say that some of these were real late. 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.279 You know, if you're in a tiny category and you're 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:40.160 like third or. 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:41.240 Fourth, you got a shot. 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.560 But if you're like eleventh or twelfth, unless you are 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.240 bringing something really novel, I mean, even my shares will 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.400 struggle at that rate. It's just the pond is just 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.599 too small. There's only like three fish in there. You 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.880 can't be like the eighth fishermen. It's just too little, 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:00.400 so too little, too late, dollar late, no dollar short 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:00.800 day late. 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.600 Okay, Todd, I thought, I think that's a really interesting observation. Uh, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.919 what other observations did you muster? 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.840 Yeah, I guess I'll I'll stick on the international theme 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.120 that Eric talked about again. Global Actually they stand out 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:15.600 as first of all, as a firm that closed the 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.960 number of funds they I guess finally is the word 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.120 I would use closed their Chinese sector suite of products. 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.800 So there was the global X China Infotech ETX ETF 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:31.760 excuse me, chik, the global X China Financials ETF CHIX, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.440 and I think six or seven other ones. I didn't 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.080 write them all down or type them all down here. 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.040 Sector investing is very popular in the United States, the 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:45.600 sector spiders the Vanguard suite of products. It's not popular 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.400 investing outside the United States. So China was out of 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:52.200 favor in general. But slicing up the Chinese market in 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.240 individual sectors, I don't think that ever took off, and 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.800 global X finally decided they were going to shut the 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:00.640 shut the door on those products. 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.760 One thing about that, I will say, when you see 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.480 a product close and you look at the market and 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.400 you're like wow, because the market's been down four or 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.560 five years, I almost feel like that's a signal to buy. 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.720 Because China just went on a tear. So this thing 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:19.920 and you know, Athanasius and I have these different framings 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.400 for things. And there is this sort of group of 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.880 ETFs that seem to like they liquidate right before their 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:27.640 number comes up. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:28.920 We've talked about this before. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:30.960 We can't find a metaphor for it. Somebody said, oh, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.040 leaving the movie right before the good part happens, or 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.400 you know, sometimes they get recycled. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:36.600 We call that the Lazarus list. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.440 But there is a group like the short Squeeze ETF 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.120 liquidating like three months before the game stop stuff. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:43.760 It happens occasionally. 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.760 If that China Healthcare ETF we're around, I bet it 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.520 gets a couple of bites because there is a feeding 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.760 frenzy in China right now. So it's interesting looking through 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:53.160 these for maybe by signals. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.959 Yeah, I just think I think there's a need for 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:00.440 I think there's demand for China ETFs. And Kweb is 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.960 shown that there's success in a targeted China ETF. I 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.319 didn't list it here. I don't know the ticker, but 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.080 there's a China Utility ETF. I don't think the American 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.440 investor is going to be moving into that one anytime soon. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.520 So what's interesting to me is sometimes we'll see a 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.680 firm just decide we're going to cut the whole suite 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.160 as opposed to just pulling out an individual one. And 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.360 I think that's certainly the case with global X. 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.160 Can I bring up one of the global X the 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.520 close which is interesting, which was the Nigeria ETF. So 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.920 this ETF I have a long history with this fund. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.000 First of all, I always just thought, Wow, this is 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.120 how far ETF can go. They can get to Nigeria. 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:40.640 It was like, wow, we get you know, anything with 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.079 an ETF. And then over the years, like when I 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.920 joined BI, they were like, oh, do some more modeling 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.000 and stuff Like I was like all right. So I 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.679 would have this report where I would look at ets 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.120 by lowest price to earnings ratio to be like, hey 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.680 it's got a low PE, maybe it's a good buye. 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.120 And this is how I learned the hard way that 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.240 like a low PE doesn't necessarily mean it's a good bye. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.760 So the Nigeria ETF would always be lowest. It would 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.880 have a P of like four, right, Like that's like 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.400 the S and P is like what twenty five? Yeah, 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:11.880 So you're like so I was like oh, maybe the 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:16.400 Nigeria and it would go to three. So this Nigeria 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.959 ATF is such a great lesson in like, no matter 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.960 how low you think the basement is, there could be 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.640 like a cellar door to that too, Like it never 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:26.800 ends with skeletons. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.000 And but nobody ever bought the ETF. I mean, I 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:30.360 know other people might have seen that. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.360 Never went on a run, right, it never got out 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.040 of the basement. It only went to another basement. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:35.880 I'm trying to make a Halloween joke here. 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.839 I'm trying someone. I'm throwing out so much stuff for 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:40.160 you guys. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:43.599 The classification. There's like the tomb and then there's the headstone. 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:45.600 You know, we could be we could we could have some. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:46.200 More fun with us. 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.360 Okay, Todd, run rund it out. What's your what's your 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:49.199 last observation? 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:50.560 All right, well my last. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.360 There'd be more, I'm sure, but yeah, last one. 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.600 The last one I just want to highlight is the 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.560 Tickers Journey Jr. And why it's the ALPS Global Travel 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:04.400 Benefit Sherr's ETF because Vetefy is actually the was the 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:06.080 index provider behind it. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:07.720 And wait, wait to make this about yourself. 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.559 Well, I'm not making it about myself. I'm in the 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.920 Bloomberg office. I imagine that we're gonna hear about some 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:13.920 Bloomberg index based products. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.840 They're all really great, They're all really good. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.079 They have they none of them have ever none. 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:20.880 That you think we're gonna like subtly promote all of 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:21.480 our own stuff. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.320 Well, the reason this caught my eye was we I 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.520 think we were on together in the past talking about jets. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.880 So the jets ETF, which soared in demand around just 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.760 as the pandemic was happening. It was a three billion 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.880 dollar RETF. It's now a billion dollar RETF. We just 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:46.200 haven't seen demand for travel related ETF's Journey just didn't 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:51.640 survive despite having exposure to airlines and other travel related areas. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.560 And so I don't think people know of vetify as 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.720 an index provider. So figured i'd shouted out that we 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.920 lost one of our children earlier this year. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.760 Journey may be gone, but don't stop believing. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.760 It's gonna say there's a travelers. 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.480 Is anybody not think of a Journey song when they 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:09.080 see that ticker. 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:10.520 It's like I was going to say, maybe it was 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.160 the wrong ticker, because you know, people were associating it with. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.920 Music and there we now have those. 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.000 It's also honestly like there's five or six of these 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:24.160 traveling you even though one the first one from Invesco. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.520 Probably doesn't have that much an assets. That's a tough secker. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.120 Yeah, it's a it's a narrow theme. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.760 Okay, Bill, Donna take us through the graveyard with flashlight. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.680 What did you find that's really good? 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:40.359 Yeah. 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.559 I tried to group them, as you guys did, into categories. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.679 So to continue Todds, there's a bunch from the pandemic 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.560 that closed that were really emblematic of the pandemic. So 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.720 you mentioned the Work from Home Fund, Eric, that's I 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.440 w f H. I work from home maybe, but the 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.720 I because it's Eye Shares, it only got like two 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.319 point nine million dollars. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.040 So I don't know. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.360 It's just interesting to see, especially in I Shares Fund clothes, 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.880 and they did have a couple of closures GERM g 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:16.600 R M Amplify Treatments, Testing and Advancements ETF also only 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.440 got like ten million dollars, and then last year at 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:20.880 the end of last year we had m R n 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.760 A clothes I think, so just you know, the pandemic 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.160 era is really over, it's over. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:25.520 Yeah. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:30.440 I like GERM was during during COVID, GERM had the 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:35.320 most hardcore vaccine type companies. What was the other one 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.000 that was competing with Germ that they put out and 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.280 it was all full of like it had like Netflix 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:41.920 in it, Bug or something. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:43.720 Somebody else put out put out one. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.800 That was like yeah, GERM was Pacer, right, no, amplify amplify. 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.040 Then Pacer had one, but I forgot the ticker. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.679 Pacer had one and it had like it was very oh, 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.240 it was called the virus v I r S. So 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.120 it's interesting. These are great one two study with like 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:01.960 how to make sure to do your homework. 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.000 VRRS was like broad. 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.200 It was like, hey, let's put Netflix in there because 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:07.640 more people will be home watching Netflix. 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:08.680 That's a stretch, right. 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.840 GERM was like hardcore and it gave like Maderno and 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.440 some of these companies that weren't quite a big waiting 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.040 a big waiting, And I actually thought it was the 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.120 perfect ETF to play the COVID and the sort of 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.520 medical response. But VRS got a little more of the assets. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.200 Now they're both liquidated, like neither of them could like 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.880 turn that whole pandemic into success. 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.520 And even the work from Home, by the way. 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.920 WFH, which was the original that has twenty four million. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:40.040 So like almost everything pandemic related just gonevie one. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.640 I just said I like germ. Is that I'm so 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.520 thrown by the fact of I'll. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.200 Be honest with you, I do like germs. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.320 I'm a fan of putting, you know, being natural out there, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.080 letting the germs come in your system, and giving your 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:52.000 immune system practice. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.360 So in a way, I do like germs. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.200 Okay, I've been fighting a coll for a little while. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:56.360 Would you like a sip in my soda? 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.560 I'm not that hardcore, but I generally open to germs. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.360 Alright, this is fascinating, all right. My second category is 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.360 I tried to look for the same issuer liquidating funds, 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.520 and so if I had five liquidate and all of 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.080 them had really really good tickers B YOB be your 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.360 own boss, ETF which is a gig economy, tf E, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.160 n r G which is smart energy, t WEB which 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.720 is web three weekly, w k l Y was a 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.840 weekly dividend ETF, and t G i F a weekly 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.120 income ETF, and all of those, I mean, they just 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.600 had some such good tickers, very little money in them. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.280 So what do you think. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.200 Was it just clearing house? Just like, let's look at 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.120 the bottom of the barrel and close up shop. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.320 Well, I'm looking here and it doesn't look like you know. Look, 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.280 if you're a thematic ETF acute ETF, you need two. 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:53.200 Things to happen. To get assets. 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.080 You need a shiny object moment. I don't think any 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.840 of these really went to the stratosphere. The second thing 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.600 you need is when everybody's looking at you in the 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.840 sky like a shooting star. They got to think, oh, yeah, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:04.880 I know a guy did this, or I saw a 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.480 video of a robot doing a summersault. This must be real. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.320 You can need the imagination to lock in with the price. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.120 And I don't think any of these had either of those. 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.160 I mean, be your own boss, gig economy, I mean 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.480 maybe there's a little of that, like oh, I've seen 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:21.560 some people, but like, that's why I think AI and 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.600 Robotics is the most powerful theme right now, because it 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.320 does have these nice pops and everybody has starting to 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.320 see AI touch their lives or videos of stuff, and 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.840 those two things together I think are a powerful combination 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.560 for theme. If you don't have both of those or 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.240 at least one of those, you're probably gonna fail. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:41.800 I just think they didn't commit to that. They still 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.120 haven't committed to the ETF space so far. I mean, 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.880 they've have a brokerage platform that appeals to a younger 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.800 investor base, but that's all that. I think their efforts 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.960 are to try to tap into that base, as opposed 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.720 to fully embracing the ETF community and the marketing efforts 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.640 that are needed to have distribution. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:03.520 On the flip. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.719 Their SOFI Select five hundred has about a billion, and 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.359 I agree they're not out there that much, but that 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.399 so FI five hundred is a much more like broad 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:17.080 appealing fund versus like the Beer Own Boss and byob 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:18.680 by the way, is not known for beer and Boss 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:19.600 move for bring your own beer. 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:21.560 That's a whole other issue with that. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:23.920 One thing I was gonna add about the Donna's picks 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.919 that I like about. I love how opportunistic the industry is, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.320 right so work from home, work from home ETFs, trade 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:33.000 war ETFs, mag sevent ETFs. But you gotta be careful 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.360 with that because once that trade fades, there's this risk 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.320 of closure. But I love that they can jump on 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.199 an idea really quickly. Yeah, and this brings me up 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.080 to K pop. So K pop is not on the list, 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.159 but in our team chat we troll Ethan constantly because 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.240 just the fact that K pop still exists bothers him. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.440 He thinks it should have been gone by now. It's 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.040 down like seventy percent since it launched or something crazy. 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.119 It's got no assets and it just keeps going. I 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.560 think the guy we interviewed the guys started this is 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.320 not his main thing. He's off doing all this. 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.520 I think he just forgot he launched it, and it 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.000 just it exists to bother him. 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.919 Well, man, I love that. Maybe next year Ethan, uh 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.280 Bill Donald bring us home. What was the what was 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:12.600 your last one? 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.560 More set from the same issuer, and it's Subversive Capital. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.639 So you guys already mentioned l G LZ the cannabis ETF, 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.080 but they closed a bunch of other ones K CAL 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:27.680 K c A L which is food security sane really 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.359 good ticker s A n E. It's the mental health ETF, 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.159 the legalized and then d k RB which was a 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:39.520 decarbonization ETF. They charged a lot all of them and 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.840 just garnered just so little in assets, like five hundred 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:48.800 thousand dollars per So those are really interesting because Subversive 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:54.600 has two other Congressional Trade tracker ETFs crews and Nance 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.679 kr U Z n A n C. Those have flows 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.919 and Nance n A n C is actually beating the 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.120 S and P five hundred this year, which is really interesting. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.280 So those are those are still going just I guess 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.200 these four couldn't couldn't really garner attention. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.119 Interesting, All right, they've done it for your first You get. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:15.800 A kick cat, which is thank you so much, your 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:17.760 favorite of those options that Todd gave you. 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:23.439 Uh again, I'm going to give it to after. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.280 Okay, Athanasius, thank you you got some uh some stuff 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.360 to show us with a flashlight in the graveyard. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:31.000 Uh yeah, I do. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.119 But actually these two like robbed most of my ideas. 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.639 But there's a couple of that works. 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.520 Oh man, that's a dirty business, you know. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.040 So I had a couple of those picks. But one 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.320