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Speaker 1: Welcome are Trallians.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernas.

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Speaker 3: Eric, it's the time of the year where everybody gets

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Speaker 3: crazy costumes for Halloween and we have this annual tradition

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Speaker 3: of sorts on trillions where we talk about the ETF Graveyard.

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Speaker 3: Every time this time of year roll's around.

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Speaker 1: We do.

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Speaker 4: It feels right, and it's also good to look at

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Speaker 4: what didn't work and do a post mortem, why did

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Speaker 4: something not last? Sometimes these are shockers, and sometimes these

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Speaker 4: are totally expected, and some you just don't even notice,

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Speaker 4: you know, they just fade into oblivion and next thing

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Speaker 4: you know, you're in your team chat and you're like,

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Speaker 4: what in the hell happened to this?

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Speaker 2: And you pull it up and it's liquidated. And that

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Speaker 2: happens all the time, Joel.

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Speaker 4: So this year there's about one hundred and fifty liquidations

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Speaker 4: which were already make it the third biggest year of liquidations.

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Speaker 4: It's only got i mean still got a shot to

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Speaker 4: be the second and possibly the record, but we're in launches.

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Speaker 4: This is crushing the record. So the gap between launches

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Speaker 4: and liquidations is actually pretty wide. Sometimes that gap shrinks

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Speaker 4: when the market's really rough because there's more liquidations, less launches.

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Speaker 4: But I think that gap being wide also points to

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Speaker 4: how great the markets are. I mean, everything's up, gold, bitcoin, stocks, bonds,

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Speaker 4: name it. You know, it's having a good year. So

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Speaker 4: which tells me if you close this year, you.

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Speaker 2: Must really be suck and wind. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: All right, So to help us take a tour of

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Speaker 1: this year, if.

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Speaker 2: You close this year, you have major issues.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna it's a spooky laugh there from Eric. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: So to help us take a tour of this year's

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Speaker 3: ETF graveyard, were joined by Vildana Hadric Across, asset reporter

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Speaker 3: with Bloomberg News, In Bluth, an ETF analyst with Verify,

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Speaker 3: and Athanasios Sara Vegas, an ETF analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 3: this time on.

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Speaker 1: Trillions the ETF grad.

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Speaker 3: Todd vil Donna, Athanasios, Welcome back to Trillions.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having us, Thanks for having us.

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Speaker 6: Nice to see you guys.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Eric, very high level. Were there any big takeaways

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Speaker 3: other than the numbers that jumped down to you? What

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Speaker 3: about themes or issuers or anything anything else specific.

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Speaker 4: You know, I was looking through the closures and it

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Speaker 4: was just so so much variety. If there was one

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Speaker 4: thing that I was shocked to see so much of

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Speaker 4: it was international, which kind of makes sense because of

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Speaker 4: all the things I said doing so well, one thing

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Speaker 4: that isn't doing great is international. It's okay, but some

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Speaker 4: countries have really just been like struggling for this whole.

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Speaker 4: Like you know, in the US, everything's so wonderful and bullish,

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Speaker 4: but not every country's like that. So there were a

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Speaker 4: good degree of international ones. Definitely some sustainable esg as

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Speaker 4: we predicted before it was cool, and then like some

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Speaker 4: thematic ETFs, you know, like work from home, that kind

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Speaker 4: of stuff that you know already feels kind of dated.

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Speaker 4: That's generally what I've found in here, but you know,

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Speaker 4: you look through here, there are some there's much more

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Speaker 4: than that, but a very diverse group of ETFs here.

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Speaker 4: I suppose one common thread would be that most of

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Speaker 4: them would be very tiny allocations in your portfolio. None

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Speaker 4: of these are like big vanilla stuff.

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Speaker 3: All right, Todd, you brought some candy, I did. There's

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Speaker 3: a candy pack on the table. We're gonna be very

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Speaker 3: careful not to touch too much of the candy pack.

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Speaker 3: But it's a combo of kit Kat, Twizzlers, Reeses and

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Speaker 3: Hershey fees on. How do you feel about this selection

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Speaker 3: of chocolate that Todd brought.

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Speaker 7: I'm not thrilled with it.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's candy. It's more than chocolate. What's the

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Speaker 3: what's the high?

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Speaker 7: Swizzlers are no good? They are the same category for

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Speaker 7: me as Swedish fish, which I think are Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So there's something about red chewy stuff that you.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, your trick or treating. You go to his house.

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Speaker 2: He shows you this basketfull that you're allowed to pick.

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Speaker 2: Do you just walk away? Yeah? Yeah, for sure. I like,

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Speaker 2: you know, thanks, And then what would you say if

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Speaker 2: that happened?

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Speaker 5: I would say, if you invite me someplace, I'm going

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Speaker 5: to bring a present, and you don't insult the present

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Speaker 5: that shows up front, You're gonna get a lecture when

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Speaker 5: you when you walk away, and when I walk back

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Speaker 5: out of the Bloomberg office, thanks for hosting me. You

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Speaker 5: can then talk about the candy all you want. I'm

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Speaker 5: gonna have the races because those are delicious.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 7: The kit Cat is not bad?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 3: All right, So there may be some candy that we

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Speaker 3: bestow during this run Todd. Do you have a couple

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Speaker 3: ETFs off of this year's list that you'd like to discuss?

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Speaker 5: Well, I like that Eric front ran this by naming

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Speaker 5: one of them, So I'm not going to use that

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Speaker 5: work from Home ETF that was on my list because

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Speaker 5: he already took He already covered that, so I don't.

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Speaker 5: Since I think I only get a couple of bites

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Speaker 5: at the kit kat, I'm not gonna waste it on that.

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Speaker 5: So I'm going to group a couple of them together

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Speaker 5: if I can. I think there were three cannabis ETFs

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Speaker 5: that closed Global X, Cannabis POTX, the Axis Cannabis ETF THHCX,

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Speaker 5: and Subversive Cannabis ETF, which I think just launched a

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Speaker 5: year beforehand or just came to market LGLZ. We saw

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Speaker 5: a hope with MJ when it converted, and we saw

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Speaker 5: advisor shares have success with cannabis thematic ETFs, and then

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Speaker 5: we had eight or nine of them relatively quickly. Now

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Speaker 5: we have a lot fewer because they're in the graveyard

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Speaker 5: those cannabis ETF so MSOs is still about a billion

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Speaker 5: dollars I think roughly nine hundred million in assets, So

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Speaker 5: there is a leader clearly in this space. But three

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Speaker 5: ETFs just didn't make the cut.

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Speaker 3: So you think that speaks to the there was just saturation,

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Speaker 3: and now we're to a point where the winners have

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Speaker 3: emerged and the losers are backing up.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I think there's a race to get into an

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Speaker 5: ETF space and try to differentiate, certainly in the thematic world,

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Speaker 5: all taking a slightly different approach, and then the market

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Speaker 5: decides a couple of years later who's gonna make it

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Speaker 5: work and who's not gonna make it work, And three

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Speaker 5: three thematic ETFs, three cannabis ETFs didn't survive this year.

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Speaker 4: I would say that some of these were real late.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you're in a tiny category and you're

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Speaker 4: like third or.

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Speaker 2: Fourth, you got a shot.

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Speaker 4: But if you're like eleventh or twelfth, unless you are

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Speaker 4: bringing something really novel, I mean, even my shares will

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Speaker 4: struggle at that rate. It's just the pond is just

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Speaker 4: too small. There's only like three fish in there. You

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Speaker 4: can't be like the eighth fishermen. It's just too little,

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Speaker 4: so too little, too late, dollar late, no dollar short

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Speaker 4: day late.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Todd, I thought, I think that's a really interesting observation. Uh,

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Speaker 3: what other observations did you muster?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess I'll I'll stick on the international theme

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Speaker 5: that Eric talked about again. Global Actually they stand out

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Speaker 5: as first of all, as a firm that closed the

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Speaker 5: number of funds they I guess finally is the word

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Speaker 5: I would use closed their Chinese sector suite of products.

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Speaker 5: So there was the global X China Infotech ETX ETF

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Speaker 5: excuse me, chik, the global X China Financials ETF CHIX,

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Speaker 5: and I think six or seven other ones. I didn't

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Speaker 5: write them all down or type them all down here.

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Speaker 5: Sector investing is very popular in the United States, the

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Speaker 5: sector spiders the Vanguard suite of products. It's not popular

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Speaker 5: investing outside the United States. So China was out of

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Speaker 5: favor in general. But slicing up the Chinese market in

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Speaker 5: individual sectors, I don't think that ever took off, and

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Speaker 5: global X finally decided they were going to shut the

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Speaker 5: shut the door on those products.

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Speaker 4: One thing about that, I will say, when you see

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Speaker 4: a product close and you look at the market and

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Speaker 4: you're like wow, because the market's been down four or

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Speaker 4: five years, I almost feel like that's a signal to buy.

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Speaker 4: Because China just went on a tear. So this thing

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Speaker 4: and you know, Athanasius and I have these different framings

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Speaker 4: for things. And there is this sort of group of

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Speaker 4: ETFs that seem to like they liquidate right before their

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Speaker 4: number comes up.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this before.

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Speaker 4: We can't find a metaphor for it. Somebody said, oh,

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Speaker 4: leaving the movie right before the good part happens, or

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Speaker 4: you know, sometimes they get recycled.

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Speaker 2: We call that the Lazarus list.

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Speaker 4: But there is a group like the short Squeeze ETF

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Speaker 4: liquidating like three months before the game stop stuff.

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Speaker 2: It happens occasionally.

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Speaker 4: If that China Healthcare ETF we're around, I bet it

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Speaker 4: gets a couple of bites because there is a feeding

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Speaker 4: frenzy in China right now. So it's interesting looking through

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Speaker 4: these for maybe by signals.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I just think I think there's a need for

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Speaker 5: I think there's demand for China ETFs. And Kweb is

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Speaker 5: shown that there's success in a targeted China ETF. I

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Speaker 5: didn't list it here. I don't know the ticker, but

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Speaker 5: there's a China Utility ETF. I don't think the American

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Speaker 5: investor is going to be moving into that one anytime soon.

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Speaker 5: So what's interesting to me is sometimes we'll see a

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Speaker 5: firm just decide we're going to cut the whole suite

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Speaker 5: as opposed to just pulling out an individual one. And

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Speaker 5: I think that's certainly the case with global X.

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Speaker 4: Can I bring up one of the global X the

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Speaker 4: close which is interesting, which was the Nigeria ETF. So

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Speaker 4: this ETF I have a long history with this fund.

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Speaker 4: First of all, I always just thought, Wow, this is

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Speaker 4: how far ETF can go. They can get to Nigeria.

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Speaker 4: It was like, wow, we get you know, anything with

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Speaker 4: an ETF. And then over the years, like when I

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Speaker 4: joined BI, they were like, oh, do some more modeling

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Speaker 4: and stuff Like I was like all right. So I

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Speaker 4: would have this report where I would look at ets

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Speaker 4: by lowest price to earnings ratio to be like, hey

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Speaker 4: it's got a low PE, maybe it's a good buye.

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Speaker 4: And this is how I learned the hard way that

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Speaker 4: like a low PE doesn't necessarily mean it's a good bye.

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Speaker 4: So the Nigeria ETF would always be lowest. It would

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Speaker 4: have a P of like four, right, Like that's like

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Speaker 4: the S and P is like what twenty five? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: So you're like so I was like oh, maybe the

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Speaker 4: Nigeria and it would go to three. So this Nigeria

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Speaker 4: ATF is such a great lesson in like, no matter

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Speaker 4: how low you think the basement is, there could be

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Speaker 4: like a cellar door to that too, Like it never

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Speaker 4: ends with skeletons.

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Speaker 5: And but nobody ever bought the ETF. I mean, I

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Speaker 5: know other people might have seen that.

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Speaker 4: Never went on a run, right, it never got out

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Speaker 4: of the basement. It only went to another basement.

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Speaker 7: I'm trying to make a Halloween joke here.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying someone. I'm throwing out so much stuff for

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Speaker 2: you guys.

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Speaker 3: The classification. There's like the tomb and then there's the headstone.

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Speaker 3: You know, we could be we could we could have some.

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Speaker 1: More fun with us.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Todd, run rund it out. What's your what's your

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Speaker 3: last observation?

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Speaker 5: All right, well my last.

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Speaker 1: There'd be more, I'm sure, but yeah, last one.

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Speaker 5: The last one I just want to highlight is the

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Speaker 5: Tickers Journey Jr. And why it's the ALPS Global Travel

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Speaker 5: Benefit Sherr's ETF because Vetefy is actually the was the

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Speaker 5: index provider behind it.

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Speaker 1: And wait, wait to make this about yourself.

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Speaker 5: Well, I'm not making it about myself. I'm in the

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg office. I imagine that we're gonna hear about some

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg index based products.

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Speaker 7: They're all really great, They're all really good.

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Speaker 5: They have they none of them have ever none.

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Speaker 2: That you think we're gonna like subtly promote all of

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Speaker 2: our own stuff.

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Speaker 5: Well, the reason this caught my eye was we I

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Speaker 5: think we were on together in the past talking about jets.

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Speaker 5: So the jets ETF, which soared in demand around just

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Speaker 5: as the pandemic was happening. It was a three billion

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Speaker 5: dollar RETF. It's now a billion dollar RETF. We just

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Speaker 5: haven't seen demand for travel related ETF's Journey just didn't

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Speaker 5: survive despite having exposure to airlines and other travel related areas.

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Speaker 5: And so I don't think people know of vetify as

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Speaker 5: an index provider. So figured i'd shouted out that we

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Speaker 5: lost one of our children earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: Journey may be gone, but don't stop believing.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna say there's a travelers.

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Speaker 4: Is anybody not think of a Journey song when they

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Speaker 4: see that ticker.

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Speaker 3: It's like I was going to say, maybe it was

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Speaker 3: the wrong ticker, because you know, people were associating it with.

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Speaker 5: Music and there we now have those.

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Speaker 4: It's also honestly like there's five or six of these

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Speaker 4: traveling you even though one the first one from Invesco.

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Speaker 2: Probably doesn't have that much an assets. That's a tough secker.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a it's a narrow theme.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Bill, Donna take us through the graveyard with flashlight.

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Speaker 2: What did you find that's really good?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I tried to group them, as you guys did, into categories.

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Speaker 7: So to continue Todds, there's a bunch from the pandemic

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Speaker 7: that closed that were really emblematic of the pandemic. So

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Speaker 7: you mentioned the Work from Home Fund, Eric, that's I

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Speaker 7: w f H. I work from home maybe, but the

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Speaker 7: I because it's Eye Shares, it only got like two

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Speaker 7: point nine million dollars.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know.

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Speaker 7: It's just interesting to see, especially in I Shares Fund clothes,

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Speaker 7: and they did have a couple of closures GERM g

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Speaker 7: R M Amplify Treatments, Testing and Advancements ETF also only

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Speaker 7: got like ten million dollars, and then last year at

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Speaker 7: the end of last year we had m R n

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Speaker 7: A clothes I think, so just you know, the pandemic

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Speaker 7: era is really over, it's over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I like GERM was during during COVID, GERM had the

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Speaker 4: most hardcore vaccine type companies. What was the other one

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Speaker 4: that was competing with Germ that they put out and

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Speaker 4: it was all full of like it had like Netflix

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Speaker 4: in it, Bug or something.

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Speaker 2: Somebody else put out put out one.

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Speaker 6: That was like yeah, GERM was Pacer, right, no, amplify amplify.

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Speaker 6: Then Pacer had one, but I forgot the ticker.

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Speaker 4: Pacer had one and it had like it was very oh,

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Speaker 4: it was called the virus v I r S. So

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Speaker 4: it's interesting. These are great one two study with like

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Speaker 4: how to make sure to do your homework.

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Speaker 2: VRRS was like broad.

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Speaker 4: It was like, hey, let's put Netflix in there because

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Speaker 4: more people will be home watching Netflix.

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Speaker 2: That's a stretch, right.

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Speaker 4: GERM was like hardcore and it gave like Maderno and

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Speaker 4: some of these companies that weren't quite a big waiting

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Speaker 4: a big waiting, And I actually thought it was the

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Speaker 4: perfect ETF to play the COVID and the sort of

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Speaker 4: medical response. But VRS got a little more of the assets.

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Speaker 4: Now they're both liquidated, like neither of them could like

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Speaker 4: turn that whole pandemic into success.

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Speaker 2: And even the work from Home, by the way.

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Speaker 4: WFH, which was the original that has twenty four million.

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Speaker 4: So like almost everything pandemic related just gonevie one.

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Speaker 5: I just said I like germ. Is that I'm so

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Speaker 5: thrown by the fact of I'll.

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Speaker 2: Be honest with you, I do like germs.

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Speaker 4: I'm a fan of putting, you know, being natural out there,

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Speaker 4: letting the germs come in your system, and giving your

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Speaker 4: immune system practice.

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Speaker 2: So in a way, I do like germs.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I've been fighting a coll for a little while.

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Speaker 5: Would you like a sip in my soda?

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Speaker 2: I'm not that hardcore, but I generally open to germs.

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Speaker 7: Alright, this is fascinating, all right. My second category is

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Speaker 7: I tried to look for the same issuer liquidating funds,

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Speaker 7: and so if I had five liquidate and all of

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Speaker 7: them had really really good tickers B YOB be your

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Speaker 7: own boss, ETF which is a gig economy, tf E,

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Speaker 7: n r G which is smart energy, t WEB which

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Speaker 7: is web three weekly, w k l Y was a

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Speaker 7: weekly dividend ETF, and t G i F a weekly

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Speaker 7: income ETF, and all of those, I mean, they just

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Speaker 7: had some such good tickers, very little money in them.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think.

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Speaker 3: Was it just clearing house? Just like, let's look at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the barrel and close up shop.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm looking here and it doesn't look like you know. Look,

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Speaker 4: if you're a thematic ETF acute ETF, you need two.

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Speaker 2: Things to happen. To get assets.

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Speaker 4: You need a shiny object moment. I don't think any

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Speaker 4: of these really went to the stratosphere. The second thing

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Speaker 4: you need is when everybody's looking at you in the

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Speaker 4: sky like a shooting star. They got to think, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I know a guy did this, or I saw a

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Speaker 4: video of a robot doing a summersault. This must be real.

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Speaker 4: You can need the imagination to lock in with the price.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think any of these had either of those.

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Speaker 4: I mean, be your own boss, gig economy, I mean

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Speaker 4: maybe there's a little of that, like oh, I've seen

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Speaker 4: some people, but like, that's why I think AI and

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Speaker 4: Robotics is the most powerful theme right now, because it

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Speaker 4: does have these nice pops and everybody has starting to

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Speaker 4: see AI touch their lives or videos of stuff, and

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Speaker 4: those two things together I think are a powerful combination

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Speaker 4: for theme. If you don't have both of those or

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Speaker 4: at least one of those, you're probably gonna fail.

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Speaker 5: I just think they didn't commit to that. They still

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Speaker 5: haven't committed to the ETF space so far. I mean,

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Speaker 5: they've have a brokerage platform that appeals to a younger

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Speaker 5: investor base, but that's all that. I think their efforts

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Speaker 5: are to try to tap into that base, as opposed

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Speaker 5: to fully embracing the ETF community and the marketing efforts

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Speaker 5: that are needed to have distribution.

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Speaker 2: On the flip.

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Speaker 4: Their SOFI Select five hundred has about a billion, and

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Speaker 4: I agree they're not out there that much, but that

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Speaker 4: so FI five hundred is a much more like broad

351
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Speaker 4: appealing fund versus like the Beer Own Boss and byob

352
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Speaker 4: by the way, is not known for beer and Boss

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Speaker 4: move for bring your own beer.

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Speaker 2: That's a whole other issue with that.

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Speaker 6: One thing I was gonna add about the Donna's picks

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Speaker 6: that I like about. I love how opportunistic the industry is,

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Speaker 6: right so work from home, work from home ETFs, trade

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Speaker 6: war ETFs, mag sevent ETFs. But you gotta be careful

359
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,360
Speaker 6: with that because once that trade fades, there's this risk

360
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Speaker 6: of closure. But I love that they can jump on

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Speaker 6: an idea really quickly. Yeah, and this brings me up

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Speaker 6: to K pop. So K pop is not on the list,

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Speaker 6: but in our team chat we troll Ethan constantly because

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Speaker 6: just the fact that K pop still exists bothers him.

365
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Speaker 6: He thinks it should have been gone by now. It's

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Speaker 6: down like seventy percent since it launched or something crazy.

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Speaker 6: It's got no assets and it just keeps going. I

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Speaker 6: think the guy we interviewed the guys started this is

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Speaker 6: not his main thing. He's off doing all this.

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Speaker 4: I think he just forgot he launched it, and it

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Speaker 4: just it exists to bother him.

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Speaker 3: Well, man, I love that. Maybe next year Ethan, uh

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Speaker 3: Bill Donald bring us home. What was the what was

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Speaker 3: your last one?

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Speaker 7: More set from the same issuer, and it's Subversive Capital.

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Speaker 7: So you guys already mentioned l G LZ the cannabis ETF,

377
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Speaker 7: but they closed a bunch of other ones K CAL

378
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Speaker 7: K c A L which is food security sane really

379
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 7: good ticker s A n E. It's the mental health ETF,

380
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,159
Speaker 7: the legalized and then d k RB which was a

381
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,520
Speaker 7: decarbonization ETF. They charged a lot all of them and

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Speaker 7: just garnered just so little in assets, like five hundred

383
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 7: thousand dollars per So those are really interesting because Subversive

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Speaker 7: has two other Congressional Trade tracker ETFs crews and Nance

385
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Speaker 7: kr U Z n A n C. Those have flows

386
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 7: and Nance n A n C is actually beating the

387
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,120
Speaker 7: S and P five hundred this year, which is really interesting.

388
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Speaker 7: So those are those are still going just I guess

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Speaker 7: these four couldn't couldn't really garner attention.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, All right, they've done it for your first You get.

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Speaker 3: A kick cat, which is thank you so much, your

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Speaker 3: favorite of those options that Todd gave you.

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Speaker 2: Uh again, I'm going to give it to after.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Athanasius, thank you you got some uh some stuff

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Speaker 3: to show us with a flashlight in the graveyard.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I do.

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Speaker 6: But actually these two like robbed most of my ideas.

398
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 6: But there's a couple of that works.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a dirty business, you know.

400
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 6: So I had a couple of those picks. But one

401
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 6: we didn't talk about was a cryptocurrency, so a vank

402
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 6: Ethereum Futures e f U T was the ticker. But

403
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 6: I think this closed for a good reason. It's because

404
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 6: Etheroeum spotty tfs became live. So there's a better product.

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Speaker 6: There's a better exposure to theory, and so all the

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Speaker 6: future based ones had closed out. I think there was

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00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,160
Speaker 6: a bitcoin strategy one they also had that closed as well,

408
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 6: But this one is just a byproduct that a better product.

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Speaker 1: Had come along and replaced it.

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Speaker 5: So basically, you're telling Eric that the crypto theme really

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Speaker 5: didn't work in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you look at it that way, it

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Speaker 1: actually we could use that.

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Speaker 2: It's too weak of a troll.

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Speaker 1: It's two weeks.

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Speaker 2: There's too much, so much better.

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Speaker 1: I used the troll, but.

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Speaker 5: I just gave up.

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Speaker 1: I was like, it's just it's too tired.

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Speaker 7: You know, they have billions of influence.

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Speaker 5: Listen when when when when there's ETF closures within the industry,

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Speaker 5: that's a sign that it's at the top, right, Isn't.

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Speaker 2: That how this works?

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Speaker 4: In that case, that thing gets got rolled over by

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Speaker 4: all the new ones which were giving you.

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Speaker 2: Direct look in an ETF.

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Speaker 4: In the ETF world, if you can give it to

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Speaker 4: somebody direct, physically backed, they're going to choose that they

429
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 4: want the real thing. Nobody wants in direct ways of

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Speaker 4: getting exposure. Generally, you're being too calm about this. I'm

431
00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 4: trying to get you to.

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Speaker 2: It's two weak of a troll. He's done better.

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Speaker 6: Uh no, but it's to your point that once investures

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00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 6: want the real things, once a better product comes along,

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Speaker 6: they will naturally just go over to that.

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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: All right, Nathan, what else you got? All right?

437
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 6: I was gonna mix this one up. Can I pick

438
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 6: one that hasn't died but has its tombstone picked out already?

439
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: Because it's it's.

440
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 2: Gonna close already talked about K pop?

441
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: No, this is another one.

442
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 6: This is it already has a closure day and now

443
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 6: so it's FM, which is the I Shares Frontier Markets ETF.

444
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 6: They announce it they're gonna close, they said maybe early

445
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,479
Speaker 6: next year. And this one's pretty interesting because it had

446
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 6: about four hundred million in assets, so it's pretty odd

447
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 6: to see an ETF that large close. So we kind

448
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 6: of looked at why are they closing? And it's frontier markets,

449
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 6: so it's very kind of small liquid markets. It was

450
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 6: actually problematic for them to run it, so they decided

451
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 6: that it wasn't worth running it if they couldn't do it.

452
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 6: So they're starting to unwind it, and anyone does have it,

453
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 6: just keep in mind like it's pretty much just holding

454
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 6: cash now, so which is slowly sort of unwinding itself,

455
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 6: but that's something that is going to close. They don't

456
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 6: know officially, but they said sometime in the first quarter.

457
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 5: So we lost Nigeria and we're about to lose frontier markets.

458
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 5: Was Nigeria part of the frontier markets?

459
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 6: I don't remember, but I think it is in that

460
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 6: in that category.

461
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 5: But we still have Vietnamese ETF.

462
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 2: So the rtical closed too. There's still the.

463
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 5: Vanak Vietnam ETF that is a frontier market. I think.

464
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 4: Honestly, FM went on a tear like seven or eight

465
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 4: years ago. I like it because it's all these countries

466
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,239
Speaker 4: that are it's almost like investing in like I don't know,

467
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 4: double A baseball players or something, because they got to

468
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 4: go to emerging markets and when they get picked to

469
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 4: come up, their country goes up big time. And this

470
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 4: is where we catch it. You don't get it after

471
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 4: you get it when it's in FM. I think our

472
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 4: shares was just reviewing and it was just too painful

473
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 4: because I called them and then I it's funny someone

474
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 4: was interested in like buying it from them and like

475
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 4: and basically like restarting it. But they they were like, Nah,

476
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 4: we're just you know, we don't want to We're closing

477
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 4: it because we think it's bad for the public, not

478
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 4: because of finding financial reasons, so they don't want to

479
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 4: like get have anything to do with it. But I

480
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 4: do think this is a not bad Lazarus List potential.

481
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: But it's got to close first, so keep an eye.

482
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 3: I had another Eye Shares one that kind of caught

483
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: my eye that I wanted to ask you about, Eric,

484
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: which was I a u F Which was the I

485
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 3: Shares Goldie TF, Like, it's really shocking that, you know,

486
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: gold is totally on a tear this year and then

487
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 3: one of the biggest names in ETS decides to close

488
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: it down.

489
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask what you made of that?

490
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 4: Oh, I see this, correct me if I'm wrong, Todd

491
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 4: or Ethan, But this is a Gold strategy. I believe

492
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 4: they were trying to use the future's curve and like

493
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 4: pick out the right futures at the.

494
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 2: Right time or something.

495
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: So pretty technical.

496
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, nobody Again, if you have a commodity where you

497
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 4: can physically store it, no problem.

498
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: Nobody's gonna pick the futures. So that's my take. You

499
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: got it? Am I wrong there?

500
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 7: Well?

501
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 5: I think that's the case. But they still have very

502
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 5: popular IAU that that's seen a lot of inflows. And

503
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 5: I think they have a lower cost version that the

504
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 5: ticker's failing me at the moment.

505
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: I U M.

506
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: Maybe something like that.

507
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 5: It's their GLDM version that has seen a lot of success.

508
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 2: This aum what you Matt? Yeah, look at that.

509
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 5: When you stroll by the graveyard, you pick up a

510
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 5: couple of ideas along the way. So I Shares is

511
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 5: still committed to the gold space, just not into the

512
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 5: future side.

513
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 4: All right, IAU M one point four billion? Who they

514
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 4: grew up so fast. They grow up fast or they liquidate, which.

515
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: Is why we're here. Ethan.

516
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: Uh, you get a Hershey's for your efforts today. All right, Eric,

517
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: bring us on. What else?

518
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: What else jumped out at you?

519
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: Okay?

520
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 4: Micro sectors US, big oil three X. At the time

521
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 4: this came out, it was I think the most volatile

522
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: e TN. It was ne TN ever introduced. It had

523
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 4: two billion dollars. So I asked Mike Eshman over at

524
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 4: micro Strategies, like, Hey, what's going on here?

525
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 2: You got a huge hit on your hands. Why would

526
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: you close it?

527
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 4: He said, Look the size and concentrated nature of the

528
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 4: basket made it difficult to hedge, so they have Oi

529
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 4: l U, which is a bit more diversified, so they

530
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 4: they as Ethan kind of calls it flew too close

531
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 4: to the sun. I think there is a point where

532
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 4: it's just too it's too much, too far away from home,

533
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 4: and this one was and that's tough to give up.

534
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 4: But they were probably hearing it from the ecosystem. Hey man,

535
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 4: we cannot make a market in this, and we're not.

536
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: And you can't leave your ETF out there without market

537
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 4: makers interested in working with it, So that one stuck

538
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 4: out to me.

539
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: It's the first ETN we've talked about, I mean, which

540
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 5: shows you how much the industry has is We talked

541
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 5: about exchange traded products, but it's mostly exchange traded funds,

542
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 5: and most of these that we're talking about are so tiny,

543
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 5: you know, certainly less than one hundred million up for

544
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 5: the FM one which hasn't yet closed, So calling it

545
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 5: a little bit.

546
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 4: Early death watch death watch, Yes, yeah, okay, another one.

547
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: The alpha dog atf HM. Great ticker rough, are you ff?

548
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: There are some incredible tickers in this list.

549
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 4: So I don't totally know who was behind this. I

550
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 4: remember when it launched and I was like kind of

551
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 4: a cool memorable you know, it just hits quickly and

552
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 4: you get it. This is someone going out and being

553
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 4: a dog for Alpha.

554
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: What did Alpha dog hold?

555
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 2: So this was here's what it says.

556
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 4: It invested primarily in large and mid cap securities, so

557
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 4: it was just an active fund coming to the market.

558
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 4: Now Indie sounds like indie. I don't think it was

559
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 4: connected any bigger firm.

560
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: But here's the problem.

561
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 4: It was ninety basis points and it launched in October

562
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one rate before the Sahi t hit the fan,

563
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 4: which was twenty twenty two when the FED rays rates.

564
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 4: And so this thing launched right into a buzzsaw. And

565
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: if your game is just alpha, it's hard to launch

566
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 4: to a bus all like a theme metf can launch,

567
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 4: go down and then come back up and still have

568
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 4: the shiny object moment.

569
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: But so bad timing.

570
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 4: Highphee. Indy wasn't meant to last. But that said, it had.

571
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 4: I remember filing. I remember it launching because it actually

572
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: broke through the clutter with that name sough rough rough rough.

573
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 5: It's rough out there.

574
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it got put down Okay, what else you got?

575
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 2: This is pet cemetery stuff.

576
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 5: This is man but we still have By the way,

577
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 5: we still have S dog and I dog.

578
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: We do a lot of dogs.

579
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: Left pause.

580
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: Eric found found the corner of the cemetery that nobody

581
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 3: really wanted to touch, and he took us there.

582
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, you know, I got to pick this one.

583
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: You know's what is it? He knows it's got to

584
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 4: be an ESG fund. Well I have one of those,

585
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 4: but okay, yeah, so I'll go there the Wisdom Tree

586
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 4: ESG fund R E s P. And look, Wisdom Tree

587
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 4: isn't really into this. I mean, let's just face it.

588
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 4: There's a couple of firms that are really into ESG,

589
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 4: and I think they'll carry on. You know, you got

590
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 4: to really be into it. They that's not their thing.

591
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 4: Like a currency had GTF, Wisdom Tree is really into.

592
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: They're gonna keep those open. It's the Johnny cum Lately's

593
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 4: little closed. In fact, there was a currency heagg from

594
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 4: I shares I shares Hedge Hedge Germany, which closed because

595
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 4: that's not really their thing. So if it's not your

596
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 4: thing and you launch late, you don't see you're just

597
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 4: gonna close it. And speaking of these ESG closures, you know,

598
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 4: I was predicted there would be a bunch of closures,

599
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 4: so I bet Todd and I was right, but I

600
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 4: was one year early.

601
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: So he ended up winning that one. Technically, so I

602
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: ate a steak.

603
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: Technically you did that, you paid for you did technically, Yeah, no,

604
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 4: you did.

605
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 5: I was.

606
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: I got a little excited with this prediction, but it

607
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: ended up being right. Now.

608
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 4: You know what they're doing. Now they're taking ESG and

609
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 4: just kicking out of the name. So they're gonna keep

610
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: the fund around, just move ESG. ESG is almost borderline radioactive.

611
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 4: It's become like not just like profitable. I think if

612
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: you're a wholesale and you show up to like an

613
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: advisor in like Nebraska or Texas or anywhere, I don't

614
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: think the advisor now to have the client react to

615
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 4: ESG and the fund.

616
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: It's got too much baggage. So this is a real

617
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: problem they have.

618
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 4: The hardcore like hippie types are gonna seek this out

619
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 4: and buy it, so there will be a small niche.

620
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 4: But outside of that, all these Johnny com Lately and

621
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 4: tourists ESG issuers, they're gonna close these funds, so not shocked.

622
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: There no the one I wanted to pick, the one

623
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: on the list that really hurts. Inverse Jim Kramer s Jim, Now, listen,

624
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 4: remember I predicted, or I even recommended to the industry

625
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: they should launch this. Matt Tuttle did it. God bless him.

626
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 4: He launches you know, all kinds of stuff and he

627
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: even track Kramer's picks. The problem with this ETF wasn't

628
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 4: the idea, it was the execution. This ETF is designed

629
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 4: to go long his short picks and short his long picks.

630
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: Makes sense.

631
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 4: The problem is then you have a long short portfolio,

632
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: so every day they mostly offset, so the movement in

633
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: the fund was very low vall. It never it could

634
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 4: never get a shiny object moment. What he should have

635
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 4: done is had two ETFs, long his shorts that done,

636
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 4: and short his lungs. Because I'm telling you, this guy

637
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 4: is spectacularly wrong on a regular basis. All he need

638
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 4: is a couple of those grand slams and one of

639
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 4: these would have had that shiny object moment. This was

640
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 4: designed wrong, and I think if total we're here, he

641
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 4: would agree. But maybe they'll try it again.

642
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: Another Lazarus list candidate.

643
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no way. I mean it was a

644
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 5: gimmick that failed.

645
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 4: I just told you it was design wrong though, and

646
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 4: but it got no money because people like it can

647
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: ever go.

648
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 5: People like to shout at the TV when something goes wrong.

649
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 5: It don't break out their money in to gimmick. It

650
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 5: was a gimmick. And if I can go back for

651
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 5: a second, they're pulling ESG off of the name because

652
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 5: the regulators are requiring that they have ESG in the

653
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 5: name that it fits certain subjective criteria in terms of

654
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 5: what the SEC says. So we're seeing names come off

655
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 5: for ESG because the fund can't operate with ESG in

656
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 5: the name. It isn't because what do you call it?

657
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 5: Hippies from from from where? That isn't the reason behind.

658
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: Wait to critique that one.

659
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: Okay, are the regulators also why the outflows are coming into.

660
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 5: Well, the fs do that too. The funds closed, So

661
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 5: that's what we're talking about.

662
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: So anyway closed.

663
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 5: The names didn't change for that reason.

664
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: I think Todd's bitter about you know, nobody really like

665
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 3: liking his candy selection.

666
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 5: Oh no, I'm happy with it.

667
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: You're happy with.

668
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 3: That's the goal is like when you put the candy

669
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 3: bull out and nobody likes the candy and you get

670
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: to keep it.

671
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 1: All all right.

672
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 4: Just a couple of quick a couple other ones quickly

673
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 4: the arrow reverse cap five hundred yps, which is spy backwards.

674
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: This took the S and P and just reversed weighted it.

675
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 4: It was like, so it's like yours market cap weight

676
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 4: we get mag seven at the top, equal weighted. Everybody's

677
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 4: two percent or this, which is everything is reverse reversed,

678
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 4: So the bottom of the S and P has the

679
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 4: biggest waiting.

680
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: So honestly it's all of midcaps. Sometimes midcaps have a run.

681
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: This thing was just very novel.

682
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: And I remember Phil back when he used to run

683
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: it had used the reverse card, the UNO card.

684
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: I thought that was kind of cool marketing.

685
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 4: And the ticker was good, but innovative idea wasn't meant

686
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: to be. It gave it a good like what five

687
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 4: or six years?

688
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 5: Is there anything that could perform worse than the opposite

689
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 5: of the nag?

690
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, like I said, it's this time d And then

691
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 4: here I've got innovator triple stacker January.

692
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: You know the word innovator, I see it multiple times

693
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 3: on this list at least three. What's up with the

694
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: one that you picked?

695
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 4: Well, innovator in this case is the name of the

696
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 4: company versus say the direction Moonshot Innovators, which is more

697
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 4: of a Kathy Wood type ETF that didn't work out,

698
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 4: But this one is well call him at this one.

699
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 4: I always loved the triple stacker, which makes me think

700
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: of like a Denny's breakfast item. You know, hey, I'll

701
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: take the triple stacker. Sonny set up ye wheat toast,

702
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 4: thank you, But it didn't work out here.

703
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: It didn't work out.

704
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: It wasn't the I don't know bad, it just wasn't

705
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: the right thing. The innovator, to their credit, they've innovated.

706
00:32:58,960 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: They've innovated quite a.

707
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 4: Bit, and they really introduced the buffer. They created that category.

708
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 4: First Trust has actually taken in more flows this year

709
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 4: than them, but they're doing fine. This one didn't work out.

710
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: And then finally the Procure Disaster Recovery ETF FEMA. This

711
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 4: was from Andrew Chain and who who really was behind

712
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 4: the famous hack Hack went to a new firm, put

713
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 4: his all into this.

714
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 5: He sillys ufo.

715
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: He stills ufo.

716
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 4: But this one, especially after the hurricanes. Thought it might

717
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: have had a nice little run, but it couldn't really

718
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 4: get going. So I bet someone Lazarus lists this one

719
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 4: disaster recovery. We'll see, but and then another one all

720
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 4: got out throw in there. I share his Pakistan, I

721
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 4: know in over single countries, I thought that one would

722
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 4: find a market just because it was so volatile and

723
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 4: could really provide a lot of juice. But like I said,

724
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 4: international across the board had a tough time because the

725
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: US just dominated so much.

726
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: Right, Well, this was another great year through the graveyard

727
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: and wanted to think Todd, Vil, Donna, and Athanasias for

728
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: joining us on this episode of Trillions.

729
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 5: Thanks for having us, agains for having us.

730
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 3: Thanks for the toyslers, Thanks for listening to Trillions until

731
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 3: next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal,

732
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you'd

733
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're

734
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 3: on Twitter, I'm at Joel Webber Show.

735
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: He's at Eric Baultnis.

736
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus and Rickson.

737
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 3: Bye