WEBVTT - Laurene Powell Jobs 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.520 One of the most interesting and significant philanthropists today in 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.520 the United States is Lorene pal Jobs, the widow of 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.280 Apple founder Steve Jobs. She's using her considerable fortune today 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.880 to remake the world of philanthropy in areas such as 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:20.079 immigration reform, education access, climate change, and healthcare. I sat 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.480 down with her in her offices in Washington see to 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.000 see what unique approaches he's using to each of these 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.159 philanthropic endeavors. So, in recent years, you become one of 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.240 the largest philanthropists in the United States, but you've done 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.800 largely this by anonymity that's not well known what you're 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.320 supporting generally, and you try to stay in the background. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.479 I think, so, why do you try to do your 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.519 philanthropy this way? Often what happens, David, as you know 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:48.440 with philanthropy is that there's a lot of um power 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.839 that accrues to the giver and not as much to 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.240 the organizations and the leaders that are doing the work 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.320 on the ground. And so I wanted to make sure 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.240 that that we were not the story that we were 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.080 supporting people who were the story, that the leaders and 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:08.000 the incredible workers who were doing day to day work 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.600 to improve the lives of other humans were actually in 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.520 the front and we were in the back. And I 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:19.520 didn't ever want there to be the emphasis on me 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.120 as a donor, or on Emerson Collective as a donor 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.000 as much as the work that's being done on the ground. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:33.120 So we started off as as almost entirely anonymous donors 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:39.399 and givers. Over time, at the behest of the organization 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.119 or the leader, sometimes we will be in the front. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.720 Of course, if you're supporting nonprofit journalism, that has that 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.640 has to be publicly acknowledged. So there there are plenty 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.680 of times where we are where we are happy to 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.080 acknowledge that we've made um a gift or a donation 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.920 or what cour it over a long period of time. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.440 But that's not how we want to lead. So you 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:11.360 do your philanthropy largely through Emerson Collective LLC. That's right. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.200 Why do you use an LLC rather than a foundation 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.480 or nonprofit foundation, which is what people typically do. Yeah, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.800 it's true. From the beginning, I always felt that I 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:28.440 didn't want to be encumbered by by a foundational constraint. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:35.560 My intent was always to deploy capital at as smartly 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.720 and usefully as I possibly could, so define the highest 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.480 and best use of the next dollar and and so 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.280 I thought I could always hold off and form a 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.600 foundation if if it turned out we were only going 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.680 to be philanthropists as a group. But I also wanted 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:58.359 to use other methodologies for for positive social change, like 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:04.680 investing in entrepreneurs, sending companies, and perhaps using advocacy and artists, 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:11.320 and and supporting movements and practices, and perhaps um young 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.320 emerging leaders who didn't have a C three yet. And 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:20.440 so I had I kept that level of ultimate flexibility 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.040 and nimbleness, and it served us really well. I think 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.720 the other issue that's really important to note is I 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:33.440 came into philanthropy and and and Emerson collective as a 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:38.920 broader practice from the vantage point of not wanting to 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:46.400 accumulate wealth and and so my intention is to deploy 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:51.360 resources and assets as effectively as I can not and 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.800 so I didn't need any kind of tax preference for 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.720 the dollars. So a number of the areas that you 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.560 focus your own philanthropy owner I think worth talking about 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.400 for a moment while you're interested in them. One of them, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:08.520 for example, is immigration. What makes you so interested in 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.200 immigration reform? And why are you spending so much of 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.680 your time on that issue. I'll back up for a second. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.479 The organization that that I founded and was running in 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:24.040 the beginning is called College Track, and I started College 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.839 Track in East Palo Alto, right next to Palo Alto, California, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.920 because I had visited high school class. I had been 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.400 invited to speak to seniors who were first generation college 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:42.120 bound seniors, and the entire class was from East Palo Alto, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.120 and despite the fact that they were intending to go 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:51.080 to college, I found very quickly that none of them 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.400 had taken the S A T S. Very few had 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.400 ever been on a college campus. We were in the 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:01.000 fall of their senior year, and they hadn't received any guidance. 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:08.479 So rather than have one time visit, I promised to 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.720 the class at the end of the hour that I 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.400 would come back every Friday afternoon and I would be 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:21.039 their college counselor. And that realization, that experience changed my life. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:25.720 So I started then with freshman in high school, and 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.160 by their senior year, I discovered that many of them 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:34.320 didn't have a source security number. And these were students 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.320 who were were fully American. They were raised as American, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.880 but they were brought here as toddlers. And very young, 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.680 and they didn't know that they were undocumented. This was 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.159 in the early two thousand's, before people were talking about 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.080 the Dream Act and before people were talking about undocumented students. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:01.039 So I immediately started learning about immigrated scan law and 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.320 immigration standing so that I could serve the students in 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.479 their families properly. And we started advocating for the passage 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.480 of the Dream Act because what I learned was that 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.400 this was not an isolated, rare case. And so we 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:22.320 built out at Emerson Collective a bit of UM, a 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.919 much deeper understanding of the issue, but a bit of 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:33.000 a muscle around um, how do we actually work with municipal, state, 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:38.039 and federal government to try to clarify this, to try 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:42.239 to bring some common sense solutions to this. Because every 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:47.040 single one of us it is either a a direct 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.279 or a descendant of an immigrant. And the whole nature 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.960 of the American dream is to come here for economic 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:59.400 and social mobility and to activate our own potential, and 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.400 so for us to be blocking that for people right 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.080 now in our lifetime seems like something we need to 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.200 all devote our time and attention to. Another area that 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.720 you're interested in is climate change and that's an area 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.560 that many people are focused on. What do you do 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.480 in climate change that tries to bring your particular expertise 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:25.880 and interest to the subject. We have we have what's 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.880 invested in what's called the Elemental Accelerator, which is an 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:36.640 accelerator for for young companies who are typically between their 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.560 seed and A rounds, sometimes between their A and B rounds, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.640 who need who need the type of capacity building and 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:50.400 organizational support that will allow them to dig in, have 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.120 further proof of concept and raise further capital. We've had 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.000 over a hundred and seventy companies go through the accelerator 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.280 and they've attracted more than seven billion dollars on follow 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.040 on investment. In addition to that, we have our own 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:11.040 funding practice around companies that are leaning into the new 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.920 green economy and the transition economy. But then we also 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:23.160 have philanthropic practice that focuses on environmental justice and local 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:28.880 communities who need to have perhaps a bridge between the 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:33.200 state or federal policies that don't often reach local communities 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:39.000 and who are the ones most impacted by the the 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:46.040 toxicity of their communities air, water, and soil, and also 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:51.520 are having deleterious health effects as a result of it. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.840 So we have we have a full kind of holistic 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:01.160 focus around what does the change in climate mean for 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.880 individuals everywhere. Let's talk about your youth, your teenage years, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.360 and where you spent them. You grew up in upstate 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.199 New Jersey, New Jersey. My father died in a plane 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.920 crash when I was three. He was he was He 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.839 was a military pilot and um he was. This was 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:26.439 during inactive duty. He was training other pilots and he 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:32.800 died during during this training session. And my mother was 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.200 twenty nine years old at the time with four children 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.040 under the age of six, and she had been a 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:47.160 history high school teacher before she had children. And what 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.400 she ended up doing within about six months was starting 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:57.000 a nursery school. It was it was a really smart 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.760 pivot for her. She had some family and friends apporting her, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.600 but she needed to also take care of her children 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.000 and support us as a family. So you went to 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.960 college at University of Pennsylvania at Wharton. Why don't you pick? 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.280 Wharton's a great school. But were you interested in business 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.559 at that time? Well, I started at University of Pennsylvania 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.880 as pre med and I had in my mind that 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.160 I was going to be a doctor. And so I, 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:30.120 in addition to work study and and doing my school 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.640 work and doing waitressing on the side for pocket money, 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.360 I also volunteered at the Hospital of the University of 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:41.600 Pennsylvania at HUB and the doctors there were really generous 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.439 with me and allowed me to scrub in on UH surgeries, 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.679 and and I was in labor and delivery, and I 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.840 had all sorts of jobs. And what I noticed, however, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.560 was the degree of commitment that is required and how 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.840 and the narrowing that must happen um to be great 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.520 at that discipline. And so I I questioned whether that 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.440 was the right field for me to pursue. At the 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.959 same time, in my work study job, I was working 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.720 for penn student agencies and a few months in I 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:19.520 had an idea for an agency. So I proposed it 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.440 to the man who was running in and he was 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.880 a warton grad student, and he told me to go 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:26.920 write a business planning. So it's a good idea, but 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.480 you need to write a business plan. So I wrote 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.440 up a business plan for what we called Parents Services Agency, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:37.040 which was to market to parents the ability to send 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.080 birthday cakes and care packages to students while they were 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.920 going through mid terms of finals and obviously for all 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.080 their birthdays and and the business ended up flourishing and 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:51.319 we added more and more services. Uh. What I didn't 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.640 count on was, of course we were working around the 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.280 clock during mid terms and finals on our business. But 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:03.000 it gave me that bug I didn't know about about this, uh, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.520 the field of entrepreneurism. And so I became an entrepreneur 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.920 when I was at Penn and I loved it, and 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:15.480 so so perhaps sophomore year I decided to I stayed 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.720 at the College of Arts and Sciences, but then I 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.320 added in a degree at Warten. So so I ended 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.920 up getting both degrees. And so you got your degrees, 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.440 and then what did you do after you graduated? I 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:31.360 had to answer the need to pay off significant student loans. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.880 So I ended up going to Maryland Asset Management for 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:40.000 about six months. I loved the work. But within a 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.439 few months Maryland Asset Management had moved from New York 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:49.319 City to Plainsborough, Print right near Princeton, New Jersey, which 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.959 made everyone accept me very happy. And I was doing 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:57.280 a reverse commute to Princeton, and I decided that I 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.000 needed to find a job in New York City, and um, 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.960 I knew someone at Goldman tax who who immediately said 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:10.400 I should come to join them. So I interviewed and 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.160 I started working pretty swiftly on the fixed income trading floor. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.360 You decided at some point to go to business school 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.840 and why did you decide to go across the country 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.520 to Stanford? A great business school. But a lot of 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.440 people in East Coast often stay in East Coast, So 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.840 what prompted you to go to Stanford? I wanted to 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.720 go and study further, and so I did. And I 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:36.720 went to Stanford because that was the place where exciting 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.920 new things were happening, and that was what I understood. Uh, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.480 it was in a golden age of entrepreneurship. I say, 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.880 all right, so you went to Stanford, and um, you 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.200 met Steve Jobs then I did. And how did you 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:56.400 meet him? It was my first week of school, first year, 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:01.000 and he came and spoke to the the Business School 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.680 during a speaker series called View from the Top, where 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.920 there are several leaders that come throughout the year, and 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.600 and Steve spoke to the Business School and he was 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:18.480 electrifying and compelling and funny and delightful. And afterwards he 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.240 asked me out to dinner and we went to dinner 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.400 and we were together ever since. So at the time 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.360 he was not at Apple, but he rejoined Apple, he 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.600 was at Next Next. So when he rejoined Apple, did 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.320 you tell him it was a good idea to rejoin 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.280 the company had been at before, because usually when you 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.320 go back to your previous place, employment doesn't always work out. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:44.040 We had a very long talk about it because it 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:49.480 was the first time that in probably is certainly in 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.040 our married life, that we had a little bit of 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:57.440 a reprieve, and he was he was a little torn 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.960 about going back into a company, of course that he 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.880 was deeply devoted to and loved, but also he knew 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.360 that they were not in good shape, and he knew 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.160 deeply what it was going to take in order to 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.920 turn things around, and that meant a lot of time 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.760 away from family. So the company became after Steve went back, 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.960 the most valuable company in the world. And Steve helped 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.720 to invent this little product that says, the greatest consumer product, 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.480 I guess of all time, the iPhone and most valuable probably, 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.280 So when he did, he had come home one day 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.200 and say, guess what I got this iPhone? It's going 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.360 to be the greatest thing of all time? Or or 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.840 did he didn't keep it? He kept it from you? 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.280 What do you think? Uh, well, I'll tell you he 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.400 didn't keep it from me. He didn't ever predict that 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.480 anything that Apple creative was going to be the biggest 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.600 thing of all time. In fact, he was quite accustomed 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.880 to Apple being the the David to the rest of 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.680 the industries Goliath. And they they have a beautiful or 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:12.680 had a beautiful ethos and culture of of of being 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:18.800 rebels and thinking about things differently and and differentially. So 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:23.800 I did have the great fortune of of seeing some 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.200 of the products. He didn't really bring them home, but 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.280 I could go visit them, um, under the cloak of 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.840 darkness in some of the design studios every now and then, Yes, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.200 but we would. We we talked about business and the 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.320 business of Apple most every night, and it was that 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.160 was a great joy for me. So when Steve became ill, 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.800 eventually he decided to step back a bit shortly before 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.760 he passed away. Um, but did you talk very much 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.440 about him in those days about philanthropy, because he had 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.840 not been that actively involved in philanthropy compared to what 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.200 you have done. He thought about his work in the 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.760 way that artists often think about their work, and so 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.320 in his body of work, he felt that he was 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:18.000 giving some service to humanity. Steve greatly esteemed what Andrew 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:24.400 Carnegie did. He thought the creation of the libraries across 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:31.359 the United States was the greatest active philanthropy because it 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:37.439 allowed people to use their own determination and resolve and 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:45.560 motivation too to further educate themselves. So having resources and 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:52.080 and information and knowledge available and accessible to people what 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.520 was for him the most important thing. He himself was 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:02.240 an autodidact. He was immensely curious. I am also immensely curious. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:07.680 I think humans are immensely curious creatures, and so giving 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:15.200 everyone the ability two improve their their area of interest, 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:22.000 to improve their situation in an accessible, equal way, was 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.880 what he thought we should be doing. You announced recently, 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.800 I believe is that you're going to do something called 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.320 those Steve Jobs Archive. And what is that designed to do. 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:37.560 It's um, it's under construction in a certain way, it 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:43.679 is evolving. I will say. We are trying to honor 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:51.080 and elevate individuals through the inspiration of Steve in his life, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:19:01.119 and so we are we are collecting stories, remembrances, uh, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:08.800 data archival material, so original archival material in a thoughtful way. 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.560 We have archivists who are doing that, but I think 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:18.439 much more importantly, we are trying to find the best 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:24.280 way to communicate to others his ethos and his sense 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:30.080 of enormous human possibility, so that people can encounter the 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.840 archive and feel inspired to do something even greater in 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.040 their own lives, or to stretch what they think is 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:43.480 a boundary or or something that they didn't contemplate for themselves. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.439 So so we we are still in the collection and 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:52.680 development mode. We're building out programs. I think you'll see 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.359 in the future. You'll see some scholarships and fellowships, you 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:03.760 may see some publications, but it's it's much more about 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:08.440 forward looking and inspiring people to think about how they 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:13.520 can be part of positive movement. When you do philanthropy 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.600 or when you do business through Emerson, you have metrics. 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:18.639 In the business world, when you make an investment, you 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.719 typically are looking for profitability or some kind of internal 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.920 ready return. In philanthropy, there's not an easily agreed upon 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.600 metric that you meant to measure success. So how do 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.760 you measure success in your philanthropic undertaking? So how do 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.560 you measure success in your investment entertaining? Oh, well, there 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.240 are a lot of ways to measure success in philanthropy. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.240 I actually disagree with you. Um, there are plenty of metrics. 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.159 It depends on what the goal is. Uh So, for example, 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:52.840 if you have an education organization, you can measure student learning, 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.160 you can measure students, serves, you can see if there's 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.840 economic and social mobility over the course of a decade. 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.000 So there are a lot of quantifiable measurements and we 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.000 and we look at all of them. There's a lot 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.360 of data to collect. There's also qualitative data where we 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.040 can we can and do talk to people directly and 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:19.719 we are in communities and we ask people about how 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.240 how they're feeling about their lives and their opportunities and 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:29.639 the possibilities, and so we we collect both qualitative and 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.080 quantitative metrics. You collect this data, do you ever say, well, 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.280 it's not really working and we should try something else, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.480 or you typically continue to support the projects you initially 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.280 start with. Well, it's a good question. Sometimes the arc 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.200 of change happens slower than one would like, and so 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:50.680 there are there are indicators that could be positive, indicators 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.520 that don't quite reach the goal, and so we we 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.640 sometimes double down and sometimes we stick within. Other times 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.960 we often make exit grants. And in the same way 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:06.360 you exit investments, we exit investments and grants. So, when 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.119 you're a well known philanthropist as you are, how do 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.560 you avoid having people come up to you at every 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.439 cocktail party or every event and say, I have a 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.120 great idea for you, and you must have a process 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.680 for filtering these things. But how do you avoid all that? 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:22.760 I don't avoid. Well, I wited by not going out 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.600 to cocktail parties, but otherwise I don't avoid it because 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.800 I know great ideas come from everywhere, and I read 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:34.000 all my own email, even though there's there can be 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:38.400 several hundred a day, and and I'm always sending ideas 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:42.000 on two different team members or responding we say no 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.959 an awful lot. But every now and then we find 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.919 someone who's doing something remarkable, and I never want to 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:55.800 correct for that. I will. I will happily go through 0:22:55.880 --> 0:23:00.600 hours and hours of of of people pitching me on 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:05.000 ideas for that one gem. So, um, you were close 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.040 to President Obama. I think you knew him really well. Um, 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.240 suppose President Obama had said or President Biden said, I'd 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.040 like to appoint you to a senior cabinet position. Come 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.600 in the government, or somebody said to you you should 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:20.000 run for governor or center. Any interest in doing anythings 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:23.040 like that in the government. I do live a life 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:28.160 of service now, and I feel like I am getting 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.160 good at it, better and better each day, learning a ton. 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.560 I love what I do. To stop doing what I'm 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:41.480 doing for a different way the realm of service would 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.240 would require a great deal of deliberation. It's not my intention, 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:52.680 but I would not necessarily shy away from another opportunity 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.400 if I thought this was the highest and best use 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.000 of my time. I think what I'm doing right now 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:00.159 is the highest and best use of my time, and 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.240 it took me a while to get here, so I'm 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:07.199 very happily doing it. Thanks for listening to hear more 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:10.280 of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.040 on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.