1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: One of the most interesting and significant philanthropists today in 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: the United States is Lorene pal Jobs, the widow of 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Apple founder Steve Jobs. She's using her considerable fortune today 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: to remake the world of philanthropy in areas such as 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: immigration reform, education access, climate change, and healthcare. I sat 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: down with her in her offices in Washington see to 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: see what unique approaches he's using to each of these 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: philanthropic endeavors. So, in recent years, you become one of 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the largest philanthropists in the United States, but you've done 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: largely this by anonymity that's not well known what you're 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: supporting generally, and you try to stay in the background. 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: I think, so, why do you try to do your 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: philanthropy this way? Often what happens, David, as you know 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: with philanthropy is that there's a lot of um power 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: that accrues to the giver and not as much to 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: the organizations and the leaders that are doing the work 17 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: on the ground. And so I wanted to make sure 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: that that we were not the story that we were 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: supporting people who were the story, that the leaders and 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: the incredible workers who were doing day to day work 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: to improve the lives of other humans were actually in 22 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: the front and we were in the back. And I 23 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: didn't ever want there to be the emphasis on me 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: as a donor, or on Emerson Collective as a donor 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: as much as the work that's being done on the ground. 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: So we started off as as almost entirely anonymous donors 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: and givers. Over time, at the behest of the organization 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: or the leader, sometimes we will be in the front. 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: Of course, if you're supporting nonprofit journalism, that has that 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: has to be publicly acknowledged. So there there are plenty 31 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: of times where we are where we are happy to 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: acknowledge that we've made um a gift or a donation 33 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: or what cour it over a long period of time. 34 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: But that's not how we want to lead. So you 35 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: do your philanthropy largely through Emerson Collective LLC. That's right. 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: Why do you use an LLC rather than a foundation 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: or nonprofit foundation, which is what people typically do. Yeah, 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: it's true. From the beginning, I always felt that I 39 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: didn't want to be encumbered by by a foundational constraint. 40 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: My intent was always to deploy capital at as smartly 41 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: and usefully as I possibly could, so define the highest 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: and best use of the next dollar and and so 43 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: I thought I could always hold off and form a 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: foundation if if it turned out we were only going 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: to be philanthropists as a group. But I also wanted 46 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: to use other methodologies for for positive social change, like 47 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: investing in entrepreneurs, sending companies, and perhaps using advocacy and artists, 48 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: and and supporting movements and practices, and perhaps um young 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: emerging leaders who didn't have a C three yet. And 50 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: so I had I kept that level of ultimate flexibility 51 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: and nimbleness, and it served us really well. I think 52 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: the other issue that's really important to note is I 53 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: came into philanthropy and and and Emerson collective as a 54 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: broader practice from the vantage point of not wanting to 55 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: accumulate wealth and and so my intention is to deploy 56 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: resources and assets as effectively as I can not and 57 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: so I didn't need any kind of tax preference for 58 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: the dollars. So a number of the areas that you 59 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: focus your own philanthropy owner I think worth talking about 60 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: for a moment while you're interested in them. One of them, 61 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: for example, is immigration. What makes you so interested in 62 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: immigration reform? And why are you spending so much of 63 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: your time on that issue. I'll back up for a second. 64 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: The organization that that I founded and was running in 65 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: the beginning is called College Track, and I started College 66 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: Track in East Palo Alto, right next to Palo Alto, California, 67 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: because I had visited high school class. I had been 68 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: invited to speak to seniors who were first generation college 69 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: bound seniors, and the entire class was from East Palo Alto, 70 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: and despite the fact that they were intending to go 71 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: to college, I found very quickly that none of them 72 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: had taken the S A T S. Very few had 73 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: ever been on a college campus. We were in the 74 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: fall of their senior year, and they hadn't received any guidance. 75 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: So rather than have one time visit, I promised to 76 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: the class at the end of the hour that I 77 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: would come back every Friday afternoon and I would be 78 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: their college counselor. And that realization, that experience changed my life. 79 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: So I started then with freshman in high school, and 80 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: by their senior year, I discovered that many of them 81 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: didn't have a source security number. And these were students 82 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: who were were fully American. They were raised as American, 83 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: but they were brought here as toddlers. And very young, 84 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: and they didn't know that they were undocumented. This was 85 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: in the early two thousand's, before people were talking about 86 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: the Dream Act and before people were talking about undocumented students. 87 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: So I immediately started learning about immigrated scan law and 88 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: immigration standing so that I could serve the students in 89 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: their families properly. And we started advocating for the passage 90 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: of the Dream Act because what I learned was that 91 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: this was not an isolated, rare case. And so we 92 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: built out at Emerson Collective a bit of UM, a 93 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: much deeper understanding of the issue, but a bit of 94 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: a muscle around um, how do we actually work with municipal, state, 95 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: and federal government to try to clarify this, to try 96 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 1: to bring some common sense solutions to this. Because every 97 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: single one of us it is either a a direct 98 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: or a descendant of an immigrant. And the whole nature 99 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: of the American dream is to come here for economic 100 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: and social mobility and to activate our own potential, and 101 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: so for us to be blocking that for people right 102 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: now in our lifetime seems like something we need to 103 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: all devote our time and attention to. Another area that 104 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: you're interested in is climate change and that's an area 105 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: that many people are focused on. What do you do 106 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: in climate change that tries to bring your particular expertise 107 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: and interest to the subject. We have we have what's 108 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: invested in what's called the Elemental Accelerator, which is an 109 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: accelerator for for young companies who are typically between their 110 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: seed and A rounds, sometimes between their A and B rounds, 111 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: who need who need the type of capacity building and 112 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: organizational support that will allow them to dig in, have 113 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: further proof of concept and raise further capital. We've had 114 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: over a hundred and seventy companies go through the accelerator 115 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: and they've attracted more than seven billion dollars on follow 116 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: on investment. In addition to that, we have our own 117 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: funding practice around companies that are leaning into the new 118 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: green economy and the transition economy. But then we also 119 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: have philanthropic practice that focuses on environmental justice and local 120 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: communities who need to have perhaps a bridge between the 121 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: state or federal policies that don't often reach local communities 122 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: and who are the ones most impacted by the the 123 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: toxicity of their communities air, water, and soil, and also 124 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: are having deleterious health effects as a result of it. 125 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: So we have we have a full kind of holistic 126 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: focus around what does the change in climate mean for 127 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: individuals everywhere. Let's talk about your youth, your teenage years, 128 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: and where you spent them. You grew up in upstate 129 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: New Jersey, New Jersey. My father died in a plane 130 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: crash when I was three. He was he was He 131 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: was a military pilot and um he was. This was 132 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: during inactive duty. He was training other pilots and he 133 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: died during during this training session. And my mother was 134 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: twenty nine years old at the time with four children 135 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: under the age of six, and she had been a 136 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: history high school teacher before she had children. And what 137 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: she ended up doing within about six months was starting 138 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: a nursery school. It was it was a really smart 139 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: pivot for her. She had some family and friends apporting her, 140 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: but she needed to also take care of her children 141 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: and support us as a family. So you went to 142 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: college at University of Pennsylvania at Wharton. Why don't you pick? 143 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: Wharton's a great school. But were you interested in business 144 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: at that time? Well, I started at University of Pennsylvania 145 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: as pre med and I had in my mind that 146 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: I was going to be a doctor. And so I, 147 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: in addition to work study and and doing my school 148 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: work and doing waitressing on the side for pocket money, 149 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: I also volunteered at the Hospital of the University of 150 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania at HUB and the doctors there were really generous 151 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: with me and allowed me to scrub in on UH surgeries, 152 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: and and I was in labor and delivery, and I 153 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: had all sorts of jobs. And what I noticed, however, 154 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: was the degree of commitment that is required and how 155 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: and the narrowing that must happen um to be great 156 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: at that discipline. And so I I questioned whether that 157 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: was the right field for me to pursue. At the 158 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: same time, in my work study job, I was working 159 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: for penn student agencies and a few months in I 160 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: had an idea for an agency. So I proposed it 161 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: to the man who was running in and he was 162 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: a warton grad student, and he told me to go 163 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: write a business planning. So it's a good idea, but 164 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: you need to write a business plan. So I wrote 165 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: up a business plan for what we called Parents Services Agency, 166 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: which was to market to parents the ability to send 167 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: birthday cakes and care packages to students while they were 168 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: going through mid terms of finals and obviously for all 169 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: their birthdays and and the business ended up flourishing and 170 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: we added more and more services. Uh. What I didn't 171 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: count on was, of course we were working around the 172 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: clock during mid terms and finals on our business. But 173 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: it gave me that bug I didn't know about about this, uh, 174 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: the field of entrepreneurism. And so I became an entrepreneur 175 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: when I was at Penn and I loved it, and 176 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: so so perhaps sophomore year I decided to I stayed 177 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: at the College of Arts and Sciences, but then I 178 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: added in a degree at Warten. So so I ended 179 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: up getting both degrees. And so you got your degrees, 180 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: and then what did you do after you graduated? I 181 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: had to answer the need to pay off significant student loans. 182 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: So I ended up going to Maryland Asset Management for 183 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: about six months. I loved the work. But within a 184 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: few months Maryland Asset Management had moved from New York 185 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: City to Plainsborough, Print right near Princeton, New Jersey, which 186 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: made everyone accept me very happy. And I was doing 187 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: a reverse commute to Princeton, and I decided that I 188 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: needed to find a job in New York City, and um, 189 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: I knew someone at Goldman tax who who immediately said 190 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: I should come to join them. So I interviewed and 191 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: I started working pretty swiftly on the fixed income trading floor. 192 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: You decided at some point to go to business school 193 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: and why did you decide to go across the country 194 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: to Stanford? A great business school. But a lot of 195 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: people in East Coast often stay in East Coast, So 196 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: what prompted you to go to Stanford? I wanted to 197 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: go and study further, and so I did. And I 198 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: went to Stanford because that was the place where exciting 199 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: new things were happening, and that was what I understood. Uh, 200 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: it was in a golden age of entrepreneurship. I say, 201 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: all right, so you went to Stanford, and um, you 202 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: met Steve Jobs then I did. And how did you 203 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: meet him? It was my first week of school, first year, 204 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: and he came and spoke to the the Business School 205 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: during a speaker series called View from the Top, where 206 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: there are several leaders that come throughout the year, and 207 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: and Steve spoke to the Business School and he was 208 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: electrifying and compelling and funny and delightful. And afterwards he 209 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: asked me out to dinner and we went to dinner 210 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: and we were together ever since. So at the time 211 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: he was not at Apple, but he rejoined Apple, he 212 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: was at Next Next. So when he rejoined Apple, did 213 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: you tell him it was a good idea to rejoin 214 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: the company had been at before, because usually when you 215 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: go back to your previous place, employment doesn't always work out. 216 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: We had a very long talk about it because it 217 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: was the first time that in probably is certainly in 218 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: our married life, that we had a little bit of 219 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: a reprieve, and he was he was a little torn 220 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: about going back into a company, of course that he 221 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: was deeply devoted to and loved, but also he knew 222 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: that they were not in good shape, and he knew 223 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: deeply what it was going to take in order to 224 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: turn things around, and that meant a lot of time 225 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: away from family. So the company became after Steve went back, 226 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: the most valuable company in the world. And Steve helped 227 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: to invent this little product that says, the greatest consumer product, 228 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: I guess of all time, the iPhone and most valuable probably, 229 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: So when he did, he had come home one day 230 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and say, guess what I got this iPhone? It's going 231 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: to be the greatest thing of all time? Or or 232 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: did he didn't keep it? He kept it from you? 233 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: What do you think? Uh, well, I'll tell you he 234 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: didn't keep it from me. He didn't ever predict that 235 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: anything that Apple creative was going to be the biggest 236 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: thing of all time. In fact, he was quite accustomed 237 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: to Apple being the the David to the rest of 238 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: the industries Goliath. And they they have a beautiful or 239 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: had a beautiful ethos and culture of of of being 240 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: rebels and thinking about things differently and and differentially. So 241 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: I did have the great fortune of of seeing some 242 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: of the products. He didn't really bring them home, but 243 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: I could go visit them, um, under the cloak of 244 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: darkness in some of the design studios every now and then, Yes, 245 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: but we would. We we talked about business and the 246 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: business of Apple most every night, and it was that 247 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: was a great joy for me. So when Steve became ill, 248 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: eventually he decided to step back a bit shortly before 249 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: he passed away. Um, but did you talk very much 250 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: about him in those days about philanthropy, because he had 251 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: not been that actively involved in philanthropy compared to what 252 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: you have done. He thought about his work in the 253 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: way that artists often think about their work, and so 254 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: in his body of work, he felt that he was 255 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: giving some service to humanity. Steve greatly esteemed what Andrew 256 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: Carnegie did. He thought the creation of the libraries across 257 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: the United States was the greatest active philanthropy because it 258 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: allowed people to use their own determination and resolve and 259 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: motivation too to further educate themselves. So having resources and 260 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: and information and knowledge available and accessible to people what 261 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: was for him the most important thing. He himself was 262 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: an autodidact. He was immensely curious. I am also immensely curious. 263 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: I think humans are immensely curious creatures, and so giving 264 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: everyone the ability two improve their their area of interest, 265 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: to improve their situation in an accessible, equal way, was 266 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: what he thought we should be doing. You announced recently, 267 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: I believe is that you're going to do something called 268 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: those Steve Jobs Archive. And what is that designed to do. 269 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: It's um, it's under construction in a certain way, it 270 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: is evolving. I will say. We are trying to honor 271 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: and elevate individuals through the inspiration of Steve in his life, 272 00:18:51,640 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: and so we are we are collecting stories, remembrances, uh, 273 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: data archival material, so original archival material in a thoughtful way. 274 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: We have archivists who are doing that, but I think 275 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: much more importantly, we are trying to find the best 276 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: way to communicate to others his ethos and his sense 277 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: of enormous human possibility, so that people can encounter the 278 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: archive and feel inspired to do something even greater in 279 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: their own lives, or to stretch what they think is 280 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: a boundary or or something that they didn't contemplate for themselves. 281 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: So so we we are still in the collection and 282 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: development mode. We're building out programs. I think you'll see 283 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: in the future. You'll see some scholarships and fellowships, you 284 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: may see some publications, but it's it's much more about 285 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: forward looking and inspiring people to think about how they 286 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: can be part of positive movement. When you do philanthropy 287 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: or when you do business through Emerson, you have metrics. 288 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: In the business world, when you make an investment, you 289 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 1: typically are looking for profitability or some kind of internal 290 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: ready return. In philanthropy, there's not an easily agreed upon 291 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: metric that you meant to measure success. So how do 292 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: you measure success in your philanthropic undertaking? So how do 293 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: you measure success in your investment entertaining? Oh, well, there 294 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of ways to measure success in philanthropy. 295 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: I actually disagree with you. Um, there are plenty of metrics. 296 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: It depends on what the goal is. Uh So, for example, 297 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: if you have an education organization, you can measure student learning, 298 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: you can measure students, serves, you can see if there's 299 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: economic and social mobility over the course of a decade. 300 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of quantifiable measurements and we 301 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: and we look at all of them. There's a lot 302 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: of data to collect. There's also qualitative data where we 303 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: can we can and do talk to people directly and 304 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 1: we are in communities and we ask people about how 305 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: how they're feeling about their lives and their opportunities and 306 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: the possibilities, and so we we collect both qualitative and 307 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: quantitative metrics. You collect this data, do you ever say, well, 308 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: it's not really working and we should try something else, 309 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: or you typically continue to support the projects you initially 310 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: start with. Well, it's a good question. Sometimes the arc 311 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: of change happens slower than one would like, and so 312 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: there are there are indicators that could be positive, indicators 313 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: that don't quite reach the goal, and so we we 314 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: sometimes double down and sometimes we stick within. Other times 315 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: we often make exit grants. And in the same way 316 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: you exit investments, we exit investments and grants. So, when 317 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: you're a well known philanthropist as you are, how do 318 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: you avoid having people come up to you at every 319 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: cocktail party or every event and say, I have a 320 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: great idea for you, and you must have a process 321 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: for filtering these things. But how do you avoid all that? 322 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: I don't avoid. Well, I wited by not going out 323 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: to cocktail parties, but otherwise I don't avoid it because 324 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: I know great ideas come from everywhere, and I read 325 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: all my own email, even though there's there can be 326 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: several hundred a day, and and I'm always sending ideas 327 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: on two different team members or responding we say no 328 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 1: an awful lot. But every now and then we find 329 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: someone who's doing something remarkable, and I never want to 330 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: correct for that. I will. I will happily go through 331 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: hours and hours of of of people pitching me on 332 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: ideas for that one gem. So, um, you were close 333 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: to President Obama. I think you knew him really well. Um, 334 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: suppose President Obama had said or President Biden said, I'd 335 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: like to appoint you to a senior cabinet position. Come 336 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: in the government, or somebody said to you you should 337 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: run for governor or center. Any interest in doing anythings 338 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: like that in the government. I do live a life 339 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: of service now, and I feel like I am getting 340 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: good at it, better and better each day, learning a ton. 341 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: I love what I do. To stop doing what I'm 342 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: doing for a different way the realm of service would 343 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: would require a great deal of deliberation. It's not my intention, 344 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: but I would not necessarily shy away from another opportunity 345 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: if I thought this was the highest and best use 346 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: of my time. I think what I'm doing right now 347 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: is the highest and best use of my time, and 348 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: it took me a while to get here, so I'm 349 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: very happily doing it. Thanks for listening to hear more 350 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast 351 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.