WEBVTT - Richie Furay 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.520 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bottom Left such podcast. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.640 My Yest today is the one and only legendary Richie 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.880 Furay Ritchie. Good to have you on the podcast. Bob, 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.279 Thank you so much for inviting me. This is really 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.439 nice man. I'm I'm excited. Okay, you have a brand 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.040 new album coming out which I listened to. It is 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.760 as good as the hype. It's fantastic, wonderful called in 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:33.920 the Country. How did this come to be? You know? 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:38.560 I was doing a concert for the Wild Honey Orchestra group. 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:43.200 They take um bands like the Beach Boys or the Birds. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.920 They took Buffalo Springfield and they do they recreate the 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.400 whole catalog. And uh, they invited me out and Val Gray, 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.200 who I've known since way way way back in Buffalo 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.920 Springfield days, he came to the show and he approached 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:59.440 me and he said, hey, would you like to make 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.760 a record. What do you got in mind? He said, well, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.160 would you like to do uh country? Uh, some iconic 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.840 country songs? And I said, well, uh, let's start matching 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.120 songs up. Because I didn't know how far back he 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.240 wanted to go. And it might have been too far back, 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:19.039 you know, But when we first um started the list songs. Uh. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.120 The very first song that he had on his list 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.880 was a song, believe it or not, that I had 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.160 on my list that I heard back in the nineties, 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.080 a song by John Barry called Your Love Amazes Me. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.280 And when I saw that we were both on the 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:34.920 same page for that, I said, let's do it and 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.399 start matching songs. Okay, I did not know that song, 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.800 but that's the best song on the album. Oh wow, man, 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.080 that is I love it, Bob. I mean, you know, 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.760 I heard it when I was in Montana and I 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.880 was fishing, and I was driving in a car with 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.840 some friends and the radio kept going in and out 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:54.920 and in and out, and I said, man, I gotta 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:56.880 catch a line so when I get home, I can 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.080 find out what this song is and who it was 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.400 that did it. And when I found it, manage, I 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.720 loved it, and it was one of VAL's. It was 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.640 both of our first songs on the list. So we 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:08.600 went from there. U. Well, I love it that you 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.480 love it, man, that's great. Right, Let's talk about Val. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.680 I've known Vale long time. He says he was there 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.680 when Buffalo Springfield was named, when they were paving the 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.400 street and think came down. Is that match your memory 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.560 or it's too long ago. He's got a better memory 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.240 than me, man, because I don't remember it. All I 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.280 remember is we found a sign on a Buffalo Springfield 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.960 steam roller on Fountain Boulevard or avenue. I don't know 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.200 is a boulevard or avenue. I don't know what it is, 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.919 but and we took it into in the Steven says I, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:37.800 I don't know if Vow was around. He was hanging 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:39.480 out a lot at the time. You know, he had 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.079 his good I think a group of the Great Sunflower 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.120 or something like that. I don't I don't even remember. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.920 But whether he was there or not, if he wants 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.760 to be there, he can be there today. I don't care. Okay, 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.560 let's go back to the rest of the songs on 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.160 the album. How did you choose those? We had a 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.720 list and uh, he sent me a list, and I 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.480 sent him a list, and then we started a sort 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.640 of amount um. I picked I Hope You Dance the 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:09.800 Leanne Womack uh song, and I picked she Don't Know 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.239 She's Beautiful because I just think of my wife when 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.600 I sing that song. It's such a simple little rock 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.400 and roll song. But you know what I mean, My 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.520 wife is so unassuming and she's just the most beautiful 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:23.160 thing in my life, you know, and so I just 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.840 I picked that song. There's of course, your love amazes me. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.200 I picked Lonesome Town because Ricky Nelson had such an 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.800 influence on me early on on Ozzie and Harriet. Let's 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.480 stop there. Tell us about Ricky's influence. You know. Um, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.760 at the end of every Ossie and Harriet show, Uh, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.000 he would come on and he would play. But there 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:49.080 was one significant time uh that that I remember distinctly. 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.920 He maybe I made it up in my mind. I'll 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.440 be honest with you, I don't know, but this is 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.560 what I remember. He was singing Bebop Baby over a 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.560 crib to probably David's first child. I don't know what 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.400 it was, boy or a girl. But when it got 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.760 to the last verse, it switched to the high school 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.640 gymnasium and there he was with James Burton and Joe 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.880 Osborne and I don't know who was playing drums. But 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.680 it was like, Oh my gosh, I gotta do this. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.000 If he can do this, I can do this too. 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.240 That's what I said. Look, not even thinking well, he's 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.920 in a Hollywood family. Man, I'm just living in this 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.440 little town in Yellow Springs, Ohio. You know. But that 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.720 was the impetus, I really I if there was a 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.960 defining moment, that was it watching him sing with just 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:39.440 an acoustic guitar be Bump babyby be Bump Baby, and 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.920 then boy, when it got to the chorus, it was 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:43.600 like with the whole band, and it was like, oh 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.560 my gosh, I love this. Gotta do it, gotta do it, okay, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.320 And the rest of the tracks on the record, going 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.240 through the rest of them, I actually suggested walking in 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.400 Memphis may be a dispute here, but and and I'm 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.280 already there and in this life and Chalk, which I 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.919 remember as written in chalk, you know already there was 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.760 a song I didn't even know if I was gonna 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.920 be able to sing on the album because Bob, to 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.599 tell you the truth, every time I listened to that song, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.360 I just started bawling, just started crying. And and I 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.480 there was something about that song I'm not even sure 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.880 you know. I mean, my picture of it is a 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.360 guy that's in the service someplace, calling his wife and 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.039 getting ready to, you know, go overseas and and uh, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.599 I don't. I don't know why. It just it just 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.400 hit me. I was I was never in the service, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.520 I never left my wife like that, you know. And 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.480 but it's just something that just hit me. And there 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.560 would be times I just sit and listen Lone Star 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.120 did the did the song the hit that I remember, 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.400 and um, it was just I just start crying. And 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:43.960 I just didn't even know if I was ever gonna 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:45.680 be able to get through it when we recorded it, 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.960 but we made it. Okay. You are one of the 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:54.640 people responsible for injecting country into rock. Now, I'm a 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.600 little younger than you, and country was pooh pooed at 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.760 the time, even though I, you know, Tom Petty, I 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.120 know was listening to it. So when you were growing 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.239 up in Yellow Springs, to what degree were you listening 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.040 to country music? Well, well, on the radio. I really 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.680 liked what you call rockabilly. I guess you know the 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:17.120 gene Vincent, um, uh, Carl Perkins, Buddy Holly. I mean, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.279 you can even put Elvis Presley in some of that. 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.919 But Eddie Cochrane, those kind of guys, those are the 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.240 guys that I liked growing up. And um, I think 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.279 there's where I got the country, the country stuff, but 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.080 I also moved from there to do what I love Diona, 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.359 the Belmonts and and uh a little Anthony Imperials and 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.960 songs like that. I had an eclectic mix, you know. Okay, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.560 So those who followed your career, you know, you were 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:46.800 in Buffalo, Springfield, Poco, souther Hillman Furay band, you went solo, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.520 but then you took a long time to become a preacher. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.239 So at this point in time, how do you feel 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.159 about your career and how active are you active in 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.360 what way? Well, going on the road, making music, desiring 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:08.000 more fans, satiating fans, stuff like that. Okay, I get it. Yeah, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.000 you know, um, there there was a time in my life. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.560 You know, I've been married for fifty five years, Nancy 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.840 and I have and we tried to divorce twice. We 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.440 tried to divorce at three and at seven, and we 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.520 both made it through. Wait wait, wait, I'm really interested man. Okay, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.680 what caused the intention of divorce and what brought you 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.640 back together both times? Okay? The first time, Uh, Nancy 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.880 wanted the divorce and what was happening. Poco was on 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.680 the road constantly at that time because we you know, 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:42.920 we we never had when I was in the band, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.560 We never had the A M hit and that was 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.840 the thing that launches. So you're out there, you know, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.040 you're just playing every gymnasium or what a little small 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.840 place in towns and we were on the road all 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.240 the time. And tell you the truth, Bob, I just 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.720 got lost. I got I got caught up, and we 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.679 rifted apart, and uh almost uh you know, it almost 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.360 cost me my marriage. I'm interested at that particular point, 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.920 did you or did you not have children? Yes, we 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:15.160 had one child. We had one child, and Nancy um 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.760 actually the second time then she was pregnant with our 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.920 with our second daughter. But um, and I'm you know, 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:26.360 the circumstances of that first one. Um was was just crazy, 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.640 you know, I was I was just I was lost. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.040 I was caught up in in music, I was caught 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.520 up in life, I was caught up in in everything. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.640 And I was actually driven at the time. I wanted 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.600 to be a rock and roll star, but little did 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.120 I know what it would cost me. And then that 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.600 led to the second Um, you know, a couple of 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.280 years later. Uh, it led me to the to the 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.280 second time when she decided she wanted out of the 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.280 marriage at that point in time, you know. I mean, 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.240 the first time, I guess I made a mistake. I 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.840 was thinking I want out of the marriage. The second 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.160 time she wanted out of the marriage. And that was 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.840 the one that was because there's where the Lord caught 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.439 up with both of us along the way. And this 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.079 one has some pretty interesting stuff in it. We were 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:12.040 recording with Richie Podler at American Recording Studio on on 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.360 Ventura Boulevard, and I remember I went in to do 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.080 uh some uh some background singing with Chris Hellman on 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.040 one of his songs that he had on the album. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.280 And we were we were just really finishing up the 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:24.960 record and I didn't think, you know, it would be 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.880 very long, and I left my guitar in the car. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.000 I had a little Porsche nine eleven at the time. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.559 Everybody was driving those at the time, you know, And 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.160 and I had my little Porsche out there, and you know, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.400 we went in and came out at two o'clock in 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.480 the morning, I mean, and it was night and I 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.520 noticed that my windshield had been broken. I noticed that 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.280 the endiction ignition in my car had been stolen, and 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.560 my guitar was gone, and I had no idea, man 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.240 what to do. We reported it to my business manager 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.280 at the time, and then we went off to Hawaii. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.920 Little did I know that my wife had had an 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:03.880 encounter with Al Perkins, who was in Southern Hillman Furay 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.880 at the time. She had an encounter with his wife 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.200 and she got in the closet and basically she accepted 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.280 the Lord in the colis. She just said, I don't 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.839 She read a book called how Lindsay called um uh 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.560 Satan is alive and well on planet of the Earth, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.000 and she said, I don't want to have anything to 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.120 do with this, you know, and she made a commitment 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.800 to Christ in her life. Uh, in the closet. We 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.800 went to Hawaii. I didn't even know it, She didn't 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.800 even tell me. And all I know is that we 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.360 had a house. We rented a house from Chip Douglas 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.880 and David Cassidy up on the north shore of Hawaii. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:39.840 And um, I mean David was a friend of ours 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.160 at the time, and uh, and of course I knew 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:43.960 Chip from just days on when he was with the 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.640 Modern fol Quartet and all that we it was just, uh, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.760 everybody was in the inner circle, but my wife I 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.040 couldn't figure it out. Every morning she'd be reading her Bible. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.360 And by the time we came home and my business 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.520 people told me we found your get are And I said, 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.600 what makes you Why do you think you found my guitar? 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.920 Said well, it's in a pawn shop out in Pacoima. 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.240 And I said, oh, my goodness, you're you gotta be kidding. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.800 He said, no, the serial numbers match up. You gotta 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.760 go out and get it. Well, on the way out, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.280 Nancy told me that she had been praying that that 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.120 guitar would be found the whole time we were gone, 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.280 and then explained to me, you know that she had 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.319 accepted the Lord and all that. Well, when we got 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.080 out the Pacoima um, you know, kind of back in 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.600 those days, it was a CD into town, no doubt 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.560 about it. I wouldn't even let her get out of 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.280 the car, and I walked in the pawn shop. They 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.400 took me in the back room and dog going with 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.480 my guitar. It was my DT my Martin Dwight, that 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.120 Bob I had written every song that I had ever 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.400 written up to that point in salary human furae on 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.880 and so I mean monetarily, no one could really have it. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.920 Wouldn't buy the guitar back, but the fact the sentimental 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.120 value of it, and I got it back. I got 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.360 the guitar back, and lie just went on from there. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.199 But uh man, there's just so much that I mean, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.560 let's let's focus on the first issue. Why did she 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:14.120 want to divorce them? Well, when she wanted the divorce, Um, okay, 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.400 let let me just put this together. In my mind, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.600 I gotta put the two of them together. Um, I 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.360 was gone. I was gone all the time. Her dad 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.080 died when she was seven years old. So she grew 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.600 up with her mom and she didn't have a father 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:35.880 figure basically in the home. And she saw me out 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.240 on the road, gone all the time, and she didn't 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.480 want to live that life with her, you know, have 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.800 our kids grow up in that same way. And so 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.320 she just decided, you know, I want a divorce because 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.280 I'm gonna start I'm gonna have a family, and I'm 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.640 gonna have a father figure in the you know, in 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.200 the in the home. And um, that was the basic 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.760 reason you know that she wanted out of the marriage. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.040 I was gone, and she just she wasn't going to 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.200 live that life again. And she you know she didn't think. 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.240 So how did it resolve itself? Well, I meant with 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.480 a whole lot of friends. Uh. Al Perkins introduced me 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.920 to a bunch of folks down at Coasta Mesa, California, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.600 in a in a church called Calvary Chapel down there, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.080 and I met a lot of friends, and uh, I 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.760 just started really digging into the Bible. In the meantime, 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.679 she had already set accepted the Lord, and so she 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.679 was having a dilemma because you know, I mean, she 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.800 she knew that the scripture says is God doesn't look 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.840 highly upon divorce. So she was having a dilemma. And 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.680 when I finally called her and told her that I 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.280 accepted the Lord, you know, this was like a crisis 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.480 in her life. You know. Oh, no, I gotta bring 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.000 him back home now all that and it was, it was, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.560 it was just one thing after another. But she finally 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:50.800 acquiesced and and I came home. I remember um a 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.920 good friend of mine. Oh, this is a funny story. 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.440 When I when I went home the first time, because 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.319 it happened more than once, I had to go. I mean, 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.760 she didn't she didn't buy into it the first time, 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.120 but I was Uh. I was staying with Alan Debbie 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.720 at the Perkins at their house, and Uh, I just 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.240 got this, I got this, I gotta I. I don't 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:11.800 know what it was. It was something just told me 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.880 go home. And I didn't know why. I didn't know 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.520 why I was supposed to go home. And uh I 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.080 walked back in the house and and told Alan Debbie 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.360 that I just I really since I gotta go home. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.040 We've been we'd we'd been separated for probably four or 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:30.080 five months at this time. And UM, they said, well, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.040 you know what, let's take you to the airport. Because 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.680 the message to me basically, and I'm not I don't 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.640 want to get weird and eerie here. But it was 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.040 like go home now. Don't wait two weeks, don't wait 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.200 three days, go home now. It was it was like 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.400 I was I was moved to go and uh they 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.720 took me to the airport and this guy as I 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.000 was walking up to the to the ticket counter, Uh, 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.320 he started singing, picking up the pieces and humming. And 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.960 it's like, oh my gosh, I gotta deal with this now, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.440 you know. I looked at this guy's a a big 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.600 six foot guy. Can't even remember his last name. It 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.440 was his first I know his first name was John 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.120 because he was a good friend of mine. I'll tell 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.720 you in a minute. And uh, I acknowledged him, but 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.640 then I ignored him when I started walking down to 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.040 the gate, and of course he was going to Denver 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.480 as well, and he started humming picking up the pieces again. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.800 So we struck up a little bit of a of 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.200 a conversation, and he said, how are you getting? Are 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.040 you going to Boulder? I said, well, I'm gonna try 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:27.720 and get there. I don't know how I'm gonna get there. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.840 He said, well, I had a friend that was gonna 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.920 pick me up and and take me to Boulder, but 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:34.760 I haven't been able to get ahold of him. This 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.080 was way before cell phones and computers and all that stuff. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.560 And he said, let me try and call him one 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.600 more time. And while we're both waiting down here, I 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.040 didn't know how I was going to get home. I 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.480 didn't know how I was gonna get the Boulder. All 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.680 I knew I was going to get to Colorado. And 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.400 he called the guy up and lo and behold it 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.480 was a guy I had done an interview with on 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.280 numerous occasions only, and the last one was probably about 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.480 three or four months earlier, Kenny Weissberg. I don't know 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.160 if you know Kenny or not. I do. I hear 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.560 from an email all the time, and Kenny's a great, 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.320 great friend. And he said, Kenny's gonna pick me up. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.560 He'll take you right up to your house. And so 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.920 it was worked there, and I remember sitting on the 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.560 porch Nancy had gone to get our daughter, Timmy, who 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.520 was in school, and sitting on the steps because I 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.600 tried to do the whole credit card thing to get 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.880 in the door. I didn't have a key anymore, trying 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.800 to do the credit card thing, and uh. When she 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.480 drove up, she looked at me, man, and it was like, oh, no, 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.680 what are you doing here? You know? And you know, 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.920 I said, I don't know. I just I got this 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.920 feeling and I was supposed to come home right now. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.080 She says, well, I didn't think you're supposed to come 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.240 home right now. What are you doing? But you know, Bob, 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.960 this was probably one of the most sensitive things that 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.200 ever happened to me in my life. Nancy was scheduled 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.640 to have an abortion with our second daughter in that 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.600 next week, and that's what I went home to try 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.680 and get her to stop, and it did. She stopped it, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:00.960 and you know, I mean, she didn't go and have it. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.240 But that was why I wasn't supposed to go two 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.200 weeks from then, I wasn't supposed to go three weeks. 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.440 I was supposed to go right then, and we started 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.399 to talk things out, but she wasn't ready for me 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.680 to come home, but she did. She did cancel her appointment. 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:15.960 So how did you ultimately come home. Well, we were 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.639 recording the second souther Hillman Furae record up at Cariboo Ranch, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.760 which was like three miles from my home. And during 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.960 that whole period that we were up there, and this 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.920 is one of the most I when I think back 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.840 on it, it really hurts a lot. Because we had 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.560 Tommy Dowd producing the record. I don't even remember making 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.119 the record. I don't I was so I was so 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.640 disco disconnected to making that record that I don't even 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.919 remember it. I don't even remember with working one of 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.920 the greatest producers of all times, you know. But she 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.080 had me move everything out of my house. I had 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.960 a road manager go up and take the stuff out 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.480 of the house and and all because I couldn't even 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.919 do it. But as we were finished sen up the record, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.320 she called me and she said, you know, Timmy, our 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.639 first daughter. She said, Timmy wants to come up and 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:11.040 and see you. And so I said, great, I'd love 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:12.760 to have her come up and you come up, you know. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.080 And so they came up and they had dinner, and 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.479 Nancy actually spent the night with me, and uh, and 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.600 we talked and uh, we we kind of started to 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.840 work things out. But even at that, it still would 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.160 take probably about another month before you know, she actu asked. 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:30.760 And even on the night that I was because I 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.520 went back to California to live with some friends out there. Um, uh, 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.159 even before we started back. Um, the night that, the 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.960 night before I was supposed to leave, I called her up, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.239 said we're on our way. She said, don't come, don't come. Well, man, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.560 I had sold my Porsche, bought a pickup truck. I'm 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.359 ready to come to Colorado. And I said, we're coming. 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.040 And so that was basically it, I mean, and it 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.000 and it took work, you know. I mean, it wasn't 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.280 something like just flipping on a switch and everything was 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.280 blue sky's, green lights and tops down weather Man. We 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:02.879 had to we had to work on it, and she 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.280 had to see that I was actually committed to her 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.040 and the marriage and and wasn't so, you know, driven 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.280 anymore by by this rock and roll stuff, because that 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.679 was the thing that I had to decide, do I 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.960 want to be a rock and roll munician musician or 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.480 do I want my family? And I chose my family. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.400 That's what I wanted. And so I met all these 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.359 folks out at Calvary Chapel at Costa Masa, great friends, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.879 and and that that was how we started. You know, 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.919 I came back and um, it took a while, but 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.600 we we worked out our our differences and here we 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.080 are today. Okay, how did you ultimately go to the 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:43.160 pulpit from someone who started out as you know, far 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.919 from that. Everybody that I met at Calvary Chapel was 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.800 a pastor. I mean they were young pastors. And some 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.640 of these guys, I mean they had there's a there's 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.639 a book that's out now that talks about some of 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.479 these young pastors that Chuck Smith who was the pastor 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.720 of Calvary Chapel and Cousta mac passed away a couple 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.360 of years ago. But some of these guys were like crazy, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.159 crazy crazy guys, I mean drug dealers. They were like 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.480 they were like crazy guys and they became my friends. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.680 And when I finally went back to Colorado, we found 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.520 a church and I basically said, Lord, what will you 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.800 have me to do? And I didn't have a clue. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.119 I was writing some songs with a guy that was 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.359 actually doing what they have where Saturday night concerts at 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.960 Coasta Masa at the time, and I became friends with 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.399 this guy. He actually took me into his house, the 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.359 first guy to take me into the house when Nancy 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.399 and I were separated, and he moved back to Colorado 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.000 later on because we were writing songs together. His name 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.200 was Tom Stipe, and he passed her to church in Denver. 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.400 He too, just passed away a couple about a year ago. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:53.000 But uh so one day I was just, you know, what, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:54.560 what do you want me to do? Lord? I I 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:56.480 didn't think it was to be another, you know, put 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.600 another rock and roll band together. It ultimately turned into 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.600 that because the guys that I was now uh talking 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.920 to about who were pastors, some of these guys were 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.040 musicians and I actually used part of them in a 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.960 in a band that Bill Shnay and Michael o'marty and 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.080 both produced with me called I've Got a Reason. But 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.639 it wasn't certainly on my radar that I was going 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.000 to put a band together and uh, just ask the Lord, 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:23.920 what do you want me to do? And there was 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.760 a little diversion for me actually starting to become a pastor. 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.520 I actually did put a band together with these guys 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.639 and went out and did a little more music together. 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.680 But then that didn't you know, it didn't last long, 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.000 and I, uh, I stepped back, you know, because I 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.680 wanted to make sure that my wife knew and that 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.600 I was focused on on my family. She was pregnant 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.520 with our second child and actually had he had to 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.600 check a second child, and so it was oh boy, 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.280 it was man to relive. Some of this is like, uh, 0:21:52.400 --> 0:22:02.280 heavy duty stuff. Man, that's good though, it's good, Okay. 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.600 Subsequent to the demise, we're talking about this period nineteen, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.679 the demise Southern Hillmansury Bean. You made a number of 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:14.080 albums on a silo. I did, So, how was that 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.720 relative to the marriage. Well, I owed David Geffen three 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:23.440 records and basically I've Got a Reason, dance a little light, 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.520 and I still have dreams were the records, uh that 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.120 I made, and the first one, I've Got a Reason, 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:33.080 was an interesting record because again I was torn. I 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:34.720 didn't know whether I was going to be a musician. 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.520 I didn't know what I was gonna be doing, and uh, 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.320 so I made this record, I've Got a Reason. And 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:45.000 interestingly enough, that record was, um it was it was 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.919 to Jesus for the uh, secular world, and it was 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.679 too secular for the Jesus people or the or the 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.360 Christian market that I was in. Interesting enough, the name 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.399 of Jesus isn't on the record at all. I just 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.639 told about some of my story when Nancy and I 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.199 were uprated, and that's the one that Bill Schney and 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:07.520 uh and Michael o'marty and produced together. Um. And then uh, 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:09.800 you know, we didn't go out on the road a lot, 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.600 but we did travel, but I really kept it under control. 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:16.000 Then dance a Little Light came along, and well, I 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:17.920 would tell you that, you know when I when when 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.400 I Got a Reason was getting underway, David Geffen did 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:22.879 call me and he said, you're not gonna give me 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:26.720 any of that Jesus music, are you? And uh, I mean, 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:28.959 but that's the time he started to do Donna Summer 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.000 and some of these other people that were, you know, 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:34.480 really becoming outspoken Christians or whatever. But it was kind 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:37.880 of funny. I love David. I mean I really, I've 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:40.320 only had good experiences with him. Lots of people don't 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:42.280 like him, but you know what, I I've only had 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:45.920 good experiences with David. Haven't seen him for years, but 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.639 when those things were going on, we were pretty close 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.399 and spent some time together. And and that's why I 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.840 felt obligated to make these records and just finish this commitment, 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:56.600 you know, without trying to bail out. But by the 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:00.000 time I made Dance a Little Light, David had left 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:05.320 Asylum and it was Joe uh oh, gosh, Joe Smith, 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:09.359 Joe Smith, thank you um and I made Dance a 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:13.160 Little Light. And each each one of these records became 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.880 less and less about me and who I was with 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.160 my faith, but they were more secular in uh in, 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.000 in scope. But it did nothing. And I remember playing 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.680 at the Roxy, and I remember Asylum, you know, coming down, 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:30.159 we want to come down and here you and I 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.320 was hoping, boy, they're gonna come down and say get out. 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:34.600 We don't want you know you're out of your contract. 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:36.240 We don't want you any more. Well, we blew the 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.600 place apart. I had a band. It was terrific, and 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:40.399 we blew the place apart. And they said, when are 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:43.080 you gonna do your next record? Oh man, that that 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.480 one had just come out, you know, but that's what 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.200 they wanted, and that's when I got together and ended 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:51.320 up doing I Still Have Dreams. That was another interesting 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:56.800 project because I recorded most of that record the first time. 0:24:56.840 --> 0:24:59.480 I recorded it twice. I recorded it up at Cariboo 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.399 Ranch with my band, with my with my band, and 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:05.639 when we got done with it, it just it didn't 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:09.040 have I wanted it to sound more alive. And a 0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.040 guy named Charlie Reardon was working with me at the time. 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:16.920 He was an Asylum UM record uh runner here in Denver, 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:19.640 and he said, well, let me, you know, call Asylum 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:21.120 and tell him you're not gonna do it, and we'll 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:23.960 just call, you know, we'll see, you know what we 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:27.280 can do. We ended up doing Val Gray and the section, 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.920 you know, and it was like, oh man, I tell you, Bob, 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:33.359 it was a record that I'll never forget because that's 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.439 one thing with Val that on both records that I've 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:39.159 done with him, I've been able to sing nine percent 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.760 of the records live while the tracks are going down, 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:44.800 and most of the time you're always overdubbing, you know. 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:48.880 But anyway, um, we had already recorded up at Cariboo, 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:50.840 and I said, I don't like it and I don't 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:52.880 want to you know, I don't want to put this out. 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:54.760 And he said, well, let's go out there, l A 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:56.600 and do it. Man. We'll get the section and get 0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:59.920 uh you know, so Val produced. I still have dream 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.560 teams with you know, Russ Kunkin and Les Clare and 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:05.399 Dan Doug Moore and and Wadi wak Tell and Craig 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:09.159 Dergy and there was the band man and you know, 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:12.879 I still have dreams. Became a top ten radio hit, 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.040 but no one bought it it, uh, you know, and 0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:20.439 so things are kind of like, okay, what now? And 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:22.680 I think that's when I decided, you know, I need 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:24.440 to really figure out what I'm gonna do. And that's 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.560 when I started pastoring a church for about thirty five years. Okay, 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:30.880 so you didn't make another record for fifteen years. I'm 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:36.040 interested in the details of how you end up getting 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:38.920 your own church. Did you get involved with the church 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:41.880 that existed. Did you start your own church? How did 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.800 you start preaching? How did that all happen? Well, basically, 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:47.880 we started a home Bible study. Nancy and I start 0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:49.800 a home Bible study in our home. We were living 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:52.000 up off of uh, you know, up in the mountains 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:54.920 west of Boulder, and there was a neighbor up there 0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:57.920 and said, hey, would you like to He approached me 0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:00.000 and he said, hey, I've heard, you know from another 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.520 neighbor up here that you're a Christian and and um, 0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:05.800 you know, want to do a Bible study. And so, 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:07.840 you know, we got together on our home and we 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:10.720 both sat around and it was like, okay, who's gonna 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:13.840 lead this thing? And nobody did anything, you know. We 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:16.720 were just sitting there twiddling our thumbs and kind of like, okay, 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:19.159 that was nice. We'll get together some other time, you know. 0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:22.440 And so I went down to the local bookstore and 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:25.600 I got I'd already come home with a bunch of 0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:29.360 Chuck Smith tapes through the Bible. That's what he did. Uh, 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:32.760 Calgary Chappell does book by book, verse by verse, and 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.560 so you you got to hit everything or you or 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:38.520 you don't. It's not topical studies in other words. And 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:40.240 so I went down and I got I got the 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:42.480 Book of John, a commentary on the on the Book 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:45.760 of John, and uh, I said, Okay, when we get 0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:48.720 together again, I'm gonna take over. I'm gonna start and 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:51.480 lead this thing. And so that's basically how I started doing. 0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:54.280 And I listened to Chuck Smith tapes and I listened 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:56.720 to and I read, I read commentaries that I got 0:27:56.760 --> 0:27:59.960 at the local bookstore, and you know, we started get 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.240 some more people that would come around to the house 0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:05.000 and and uh, we just had our little home Bible. 0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:07.679 Say that's how the church got started. Okay, so what 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:11.119 happened after that? After that, I had a friend down 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:14.520 at which was really Calgary Chapel in Denver, who was 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:17.879 making worship records at the time, and came to a 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:19.960 friend of mine who was in our church at the time, 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:24.040 and um, he was my worship leader, and asked if 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:26.840 we had some songs to contribute to a worship album 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:28.640 that we were doing well. By the time we got 0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:31.680 around to it, we had played him ten or twelve songs. 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.520 He said, you've got enough for an album yourself. And 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:37.760 so we went into studio with this guy, Randy Rigby, 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:40.960 and John Macy here in Denver, and uh, and we 0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:43.800 recorded in my father's house. And so that was the 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.480 first record that I actually made after Seasons of Change, 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.280 which was really uh that was that was one of 0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:53.280 the last secular Christian when I was I don't like 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:57.280 to call my my my records or my Christian records 0:28:57.320 --> 0:28:59.400 or whatever. You know. Some of them are more devotional, 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:01.520 some of them, you know, but they're just in my 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:04.800 father's house. And I am sure we're two devotional records 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:08.120 that came out of that accounter with Randy Rigby and 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:11.960 and John Macy. Okay, but that was already I got 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:16.080 way ahead of myself here. So you're having Bible study 0:29:16.120 --> 0:29:19.400 in your house, you're leading that. How do you end 0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:23.920 up with your own church? Well, as it turned out, um, 0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:27.920 in the Bible study that we did, people came to 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:30.280 me and they said, you know, because the Bible study 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:33.080 was growing, and they said, when are we going to 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:36.320 start church? And I'm trying to think that must have 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:38.800 been about a d two or eighty three somewhere, maybe 0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:42.800 two somewhere and there. I can't remember. Man, it's like beep, beep, 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:46.560 beep beep. Their short circuiting. But they came and they 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:48.959 said and I basically told him, I said, well, when 0:29:49.000 --> 0:29:52.240 the Lord leads, well, some of them decided they were 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.080 in a hurry to get started, and so they kind 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:56.200 of broke off from our little Bible study and they 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:59.560 started their own thing on on Sunday mornings, and it 0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:02.200 just flopped and went nowhere. And in the meantime, I 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:05.080 went looking for a building, you know, that maybe we 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:06.880 could meet in with the rest of the people. And 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:08.960 so that's what we did. I found a little Seventh 0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:11.880 day Baptist church on the corner of a Rapaho and 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:15.200 Ninth Street and Boulder, and they didn't meet on Sundays, 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.479 and so we we started meeting on Sundays in in 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:20.440 that place that we I took the rest of that 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:24.560 Bible study over there, and actually we just we started church. 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:28.200 We just we're Calgary Chapel a Boulder at the time. 0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:32.600 No no seminary, no nothing, just Chuck Smith tapes and 0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:36.640 the way we go. Okay, so you recently retired, when 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:41.080 you retired and passed the baton, how big was the church? 0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:43.800 How many people would come? You know, My wife and 0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.200 I were just talking about this, and our church was 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:48.760 always pretty small. And as she said, we had between 0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:52.040 two hundred and two undred fifty people, you know, counting kids. Right, 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:54.960 that's pretty good size. I have to ask because it 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:58.360 is the music business. Yeah, your deal with the asylum 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:02.640 is over. What are you doing for money? Living? Financially? 0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:05.200 I had the church, but I also would go out 0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:08.400 and I would play some concerts because this one band 0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:12.600 that I had with Randy Rigby, UM, we actually did 0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:16.640 some churches. And then Kenny called me and he said, hey, 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.800 do you want to come out to um? Uh what 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:21.760 what did it by the bay out there in San Diego? 0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:27.040 Um Humphreys Humphrey. Yeah, And he said would you like 0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:30.600 to come out now? It's been probably ten years, you know, 0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:33.520 And I said, well, I got this little band, but Kenny, 0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:35.360 I haven't played. I just don't know if I can do. 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.040 I'll find the show for you. And he called me 0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:40.280 back in about a month and he said, I got 0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:42.280 the perfect show for you to do. And he said 0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:46.600 as Steven Stills. I said, really, And I thought about 0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:48.479 it and I talked to my to my buddy at 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:50.880 the time that was he was like my band because 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:53.440 he played guitar, ban Joe and do Bro and all 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:55.320 kinds of it was just the two offus we were. 0:31:55.640 --> 0:31:58.040 He said, we can do this, and so we put 0:31:58.040 --> 0:32:00.320 about seven or eight songs together and one out and 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.400 open for Steven Stills, and the next thing I know, 0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:06.040 you know, we've we're going out back and forth to 0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:08.760 Calvary to Humphreys by the Bay. Kenny had us out 0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:10.840 there six times, and each time I had a little 0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:12.800 more of a band, a little bit bigger of a band. 0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:17.040 And so I'm actually playing music on um you know, 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:20.800 I'm taking time off from from the church. Not lengthy time, 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:22.520 so I would I would never be away from the 0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:24.800 church for more than probably two weeks at a time. 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:27.320 And that was that was like very rare that I 0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:29.960 would do that maybe a week. But that's how all 0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:33.200 of that just started. Kenny was really the impetus behind 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:35.400 all of that off but he he had his plan 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:37.920 with the Emmy Lou Harris, and then he had his 0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:39.840 plan with Poco, and he had his plan. I mean, 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.440 he had us doing all kinds of concerts out there. Okay, 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.960 so tell me about how you decided to retire as 0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:50.280 a pastor, and it appears that you're more invested in 0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:54.360 music subsequent to that. Tell me, what's going through your brain? There? Oh? Man? 0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:58.360 You know, once you really have music, it's always there. 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:01.680 And I not only had had recorded in my father's 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:04.840 house and I am sure, but then I recorded Heartbeat 0:33:04.880 --> 0:33:08.080 of Love. I did Alive the double C D with 0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:10.600 my band. I did Heartbeat of Love and I did. 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:13.880 I am sure. But but what's going on here? Is 0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:18.160 pose the question again? I'm sorry man, I'm getting old. Well, okay, 0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:21.400 you know you have a thirty five year career as 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:25.200 a pastor. How did you decide to retire? And it 0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:29.040 appears that you're refocusing on music? But tell me what 0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:31.320 you feel. Well? See, I never walked away from music. 0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:34.760 Always made these records on my own, went to next film, 0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:37.400 made him. But here's what happened with the church after 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:40.840 thirty five years. Um, you know, my life has always 0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:44.120 been giving. It's always whether it's been music, whether it's 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:46.320 been the church. You know, you're you're always doing it. 0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:50.120 And I came down with Bell's palsy. I didn't even 0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:53.640 know what Bell's palsy was. And this was like two 0:33:53.720 --> 0:33:58.200 days before Christmas. Um, and uh, my wife and I 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.160 are having breakfast and he she says, she said, are 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.080 you okay, I said, yeah, what's wrong? She said, well, 0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:04.760 it looks like the whole left side of your face 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:08.040 is just drooping. And so we headed over to the 0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:09.960 doctor and the next thing, I know, you know, they 0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:12.719 diagnosed it the best they could and said, you got 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:15.440 Bell's palsy. After putting me in that little tube that man, 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:18.759 I just I can't. I'm claustrophobic and can't do that thing. 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.280 But they finally got me in it. Man, they drugged 0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:23.480 me up enough they got me in it. And you know, 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:25.279 Nancy and I just talked and said, you know what, 0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:28.759 I think I was seventy five at the time, and 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:31.000 I said, you know what, we've we've we we've really 0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:34.919 put a lot of time in and probably have neglected ourselves. 0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:37.640 Maybe it's time just to step away so that I 0:34:37.719 --> 0:34:40.120 don't always you know, I don't always have to be 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:43.239 in one place at one time. Let's just start focusing 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:46.920 on ourselves. And bobbed us basically, what really caused me 0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:49.280 to step away from the church apter thirty five years. 0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:52.319 We just wanted to spend more time with ourselves, with 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:55.239 our kids, with our grandkids, and just you know, just 0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:58.719 really uh um, you know, living our life together. Here 0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:02.160 we are old people, you know, but we're still wanting 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:05.200 to you know, we're I wrote that song called hand 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:07.759 in Hand. You know, after all these years, we're still 0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:11.880 going hand in hand. And we just that was really 0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:14.319 the what was behind it. We just wanted or I 0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.640 just wanted to step away from having the commitment of 0:35:17.680 --> 0:35:20.120 having to be at church and serving and doing this 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:22.080 and do it. I wanted to. I wanted to focus 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:24.280 on my wife, which maybe I should have done even 0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:26.880 ten years earlier, but who knew. But it took Bell's 0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:29.919 palsy to really, you know, put me in that uh, 0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:32.359 in that frame of mind to start thinking about that. 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.439 Sometimes Bells pausy doesn't go away. So how is your 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:38.040 Bell's pauls? It's great, you know, And I was. It 0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:41.160 was like it was almost like a miracle. Mine lasted 0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:47.400 maybe maybe six to seven, maybe two months, two months. 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:50.040 My friend and I spoke about earlier Tom Stipe, who 0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:52.520 was a pastor that just passed away. That was my 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:54.439 good friend. I wrote quite a few songs with him 0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:59.120 and I've got a reason and uhh, yeah, I've got 0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:02.040 a reason to dance. He got it and he had 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:04.759 it for a long time. I mean, he really did 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:06.960 have it for a long time. But uh, yeah, I 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:09.440 can wink at you right now with both eyes. And 0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:13.799 it was crazy though, Man, I never even heard of 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:16.879 Bell's palsy. I didn't even know what it was. Yeah, 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:19.040 I had a friend who had it. And so in 0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:23.600 any event, you're stepping away from the church, is music 0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:27.200 just one thing you're doing, or you refocusing and devoting 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:30.279 more time to music A little bit of both. You know. 0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:32.680 I stepped away and I had a band together at 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:38.920 the time, and we were actually um uh there were 0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:41.760 some crisis is that went on in the church after 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.600 after I stepped down and turned it over. I don't 0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:46.600 know that I necessarily need to get into him, but 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:50.080 I had some things booked. I had actually David had 0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:54.800 had actually encouraged me to do the delivering uh c D. 0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:58.600 And um you know, I already was playing all but 0:36:58.719 --> 0:37:02.759 three songs, uh you know, at a various times, uh, 0:37:02.800 --> 0:37:06.200 in my in my sets, and so I was doing that, 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:09.919 I was focusing on music. I wasn't focused. I never 0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:12.399 have focused on it, like, Okay, you know what, I'm 0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:15.160 gonna have another career and do that again. I never 0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:18.799 thought about that. And so around the same time. You know, 0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.239 that's when Val kind of approached me not too long 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:25.920 after that about in and Um. So, I mean it's 0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:29.080 always been music. And you know, one thing that I've 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:33.960 been very um, I've been very proud of that I've 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:37.279 been able to write music that I really feel is 0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:39.719 is good music, you know. I mean it's really good 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:42.800 music on heartbeat of love and and and I am sure. 0:37:43.040 --> 0:37:45.719 So I've been creative. I haven't just sat around and 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.439 twiddled my thumbs. And I've always been creative. And when 0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.560 something came around to write some music and some songs, 0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:55.680 I've done that. And um, and been fortunate enough to 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:58.319 have some good people to play with. I got some 0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:01.040 great people right now, Dan one of them, who's sitting 0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:04.200 back here with me, who's helping to tape this, and 0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:06.560 and on, and my daughter Jesse, and then I've got 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:10.000 some other friends in San Diego. Because I had some issues, 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:12.080 I had to break up my band that I actually 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:14.439 played with longer than I ever played with any other 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:16.840 band in my life. So how come you have to 0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:19.120 break him up because I was betrayed? Yeah, I will 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:21.440 leave that of that. Let's go back to the beginning. Okay, 0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:25.960 Yellow Springs Ohio was a college town. So what were 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:28.560 your parents doing there when you were growing up? My 0:38:28.880 --> 0:38:31.319 dad and mom had a drug store. Now my dad 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:35.080 was not a pharmacist, but he owned the business. He 0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:39.160 owned the drug store, and um, he passed away when 0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:43.120 he was forty five years old. I was thirteen years old. Yeah, 0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:46.520 he had an aortic aneurysm. And I can remember it 0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:48.839 to this day when the ambulance pulled up in front 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:52.560 of our house at six one six Zeni Avenue, and um, 0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:54.320 you know they were they were carrying him away and 0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:56.600 that was it. I mean, you know, it's like John 0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:58.480 Ritter when he passed away. If you're not in the 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:02.080 hospital and something like that, uns, you're done. And he 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:06.880 was done. But they were business people and um, you know, 0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:11.280 my mom then after after he passed away several years, 0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:14.080 uh you know, sold the business of the drug store 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:16.919 and opened up a gift shop and uh and all 0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:19.919 and so they were they were business people in town. 0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:23.839 How the family just my sister and uh, she's three 0:39:23.920 --> 0:39:26.640 years older than I am. Just saw her last week 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.440 at the coach House, which was really sweet, and her 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:32.560 whole family. So what kind of kid were you? Good student? 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:36.640 Bad student? Popular, not popular. I was a terrible student. 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.839 I would like to think that I I was a 0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:45.600 popular student. Uh My. My graduating class at Brian High 0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:49.360 School in Yellow Springs was forty six people, so I 0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:52.000 mean it was very small, and I'd like to think 0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:54.279 I ran with the with the in crowd, you know, 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:56.960 I'd like to think that, But who knows me. Did 0:39:57.000 --> 0:40:01.319 you play any music in high school? I did basically though, 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:06.959 from the junior high to just into high school. Uh 0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:09.560 is when I played most of the music because it 0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:13.200 was popular. Music wasn't really the popular thing to do 0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:15.080 at the time. The popular thing to do was to 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:18.200 be an athlete, and so I really started focusing on 0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.040 baseball factors. When I went to college, I thought I 0:40:21.080 --> 0:40:23.560 wanted to I thought I really wanted to pursue a 0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:27.240 baseball career. And I got the I got the college man, 0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:31.240 and I went to the team. Well that's not gonna work, 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:33.680 is So I think, I think I'll be an actor. 0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:36.239 Then you know what happened. Man, my roommate he was. 0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:39.440 He he was an actor, and here we are freshmen, 0:40:39.640 --> 0:40:42.080 and we both tried out for the first play and 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:44.600 we went into the into the room you know where 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:46.520 they have the list of you know, and he got 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:48.440 the lead into play and I had to go clear 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:51.880 down to the cleared down to the chorus to find hours. 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:56.360 So I said, well, this isn't gonna work either, and so, um, 0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:58.640 you know, I was kind of thumbing along at that time, 0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:00.880 not knowing what I was gonna do. I met two guys, 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:03.839 Bob Harmelenke and Nels Gustuson, and they were they were 0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:08.520 good friends. I did win the college talent show. I sang. 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:10.640 They called the win Mariah. And so that's where we 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:14.920 picked up and we became we became the campus folk singers. 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:18.200 We went around from otter Vine in Westerville, Ohio, Ohio, 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:21.359 Staton around there and singing, you know. And and that's 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:23.400 when we went off to New York later on, you know, 0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:33.240 on on the Acapella Choir tour. Okay, so how long 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:35.360 were you in college here and a half. I actually 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:38.320 had a rupture dependix my sit my sophomore year and 0:41:38.360 --> 0:41:40.879 I never went back. At Christmas time, I never went back. 0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:43.719 So how did you decide not to go back? And 0:41:43.760 --> 0:41:46.719 what did you do that? Well, college wasn't for me, man. 0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:49.360 I went to college because it was the it seemed 0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:51.360 like the thing to do at that time. I was 0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:54.120 following in the footsteps of my sister, she went to 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:58.760 atter Vine and all. But the one thing that really 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:02.400 um attracted, I mean that that kept me kind of 0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:06.840 hooked into college was there was an acapella choir tour 0:42:07.080 --> 0:42:10.680 that was planned for the spring of my sophomore year 0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:13.600 that was going to New York and Bob and Nels 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:15.560 and I who were doing all the Peter Paul and 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:19.000 Mary Kingston trio and and all those songs, you know, 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:22.880 and we were gonna go in uh downtown in the city, 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:26.080 and we were we were going to become the next, 0:42:26.480 --> 0:42:28.799 you know, the next big thing in in New York, 0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:30.840 you know. And here I have I have a rupture 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:35.160 to panics, and I said, I I school didn't appeal 0:42:35.239 --> 0:42:38.600 to me. And I was able to talk to college 0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:43.399 into allowing me to go on that choir tour if 0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:45.719 I came up for the rehearsals. And so I would 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:49.359 drive up to Westerville, you know, probably two times a week. 0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:51.680 I was working at a place called Pratt and Whitney 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:54.959 Aircraft making tire no no no no no Morris meaning 0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:59.080 company uh making um tire castings at the time at 0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:03.920 home and then driving up there to um to uh 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:07.319 do the rehearsals. And you know, they allowed me to 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:10.080 go on that trip. And that's how it all got started, 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:13.399 you know, from way back when we went down into 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.279 the village on a Saturday night on our on our 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:19.960 day off, and Nell's who could sell you anything. I 0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:22.560 get a load of this, this is good. He he 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.360 went up to these clubs and uh, I think we 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:28.040 played at the Village Gate and I think we also 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.960 played at the four not the we did play at 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:34.080 the Four Wins, but at the Cafe Wah. But here's 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:37.959 the catch. We played as they turned the audience over. 0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:42.239 I mean, I thought, man, this is the big time. 0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.399 But you know, this was the time when tourists were 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:46.960 coming through the village, you know, and folk music was 0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:49.799 the big thing. And they said, sure, man, you can play. Well, 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:51.960 we're getting the people out and the other people in, 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:54.120 you know, And that's what we did. But Bobby was 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:56.759 enough to sell me man that Uh. You know, we 0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.640 went back that that next summer. I talked the guys 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:03.080 in the on back that summer and and um we 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:05.000 one of the other little clubs we played out was 0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:08.560 a past the basket place called the Four Winds, and uh, 0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:11.760 that's that was that's where I met Stephen. Okay, so 0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:14.360 you went back and worked in the tire planted for 0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:16.320 a year and then came back to New York City. 0:44:16.480 --> 0:44:19.120 It actually wasn't a year when when when the tour 0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:21.719 was over, when the Apell acquired tour was over, we 0:44:21.760 --> 0:44:24.440 went back and they finished their sophomore year. So I 0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:27.759 only went back to that tire company. Morris beIN a 0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:32.320 company for probably what another three months or so before 0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:35.000 we all went back to New York around probably June 0:44:35.040 --> 0:44:36.960 or July something like that. So how do you meet 0:44:37.000 --> 0:44:40.600 Steven Still? He was in the same pack. I I 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:43.600 contacted Johns Hopkins, who was the kind of like the 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:47.040 manager of the Four Winds, and um, man, I was 0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:49.560 kind of stupid, you know, I mean, can we come 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:51.759 back and work at your club? Well, of course you can. 0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:54.520 It's a pasta basket place. I don't have to pay you, 0:44:54.520 --> 0:44:56.799 you know, I mean, he didn't say that. But so 0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.319 I went back and Stephen was doing the same thing. 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:04.040 He was in that same club, and um uh, and 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:06.640 that's where we met. And so we started, you know, 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:10.799 becoming we became friends. Okay. Was it a natural connection, 0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:13.960 you know, you bonded, or was it more like, this 0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:16.600 is a business, how can we make it work? Now, 0:45:16.600 --> 0:45:19.279 it was definitely a bonding thing, and but at that 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:22.440 time it was just I appreciate you, and he appreciated us. 0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.239 He he liked us and and Bob and Nells and 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:27.839 it was very friendly and Stephen was an outgoing guy 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:30.080 and so so we hit it off. But there was 0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:35.880 a guy his name was Eddie Miller, and he came 0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:39.640 to us at one time and he he had he 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.200 had I'm not sure if he was managing this group 0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:44.680 that was working up on eighth I think it was 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:49.040 Eighth Street. They were called the Bass Singers, and there 0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:51.000 was a guy named Roy Michaels in that band who 0:45:51.040 --> 0:45:53.919 was in Cap Mother and the All Night Newsboys. But 0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:57.359 but but that was a group, another folk group. They 0:45:57.360 --> 0:46:00.360 were kind of like more uptown than we were. And 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:04.479 he took that group and took my group with Bob 0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:09.240 and Nells and Stephen, and then he took Roy Michaels, 0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:13.239 who was in the Bay Singers, his girlfriend Kathy King 0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:16.480 and put us together as like a new Christie minstrel 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:20.440 serendipity singer backporch majority whatever you know. We ended up 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:22.759 being called the Go Go Singers after the Cafe a 0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:24.920 Go Go the hair in the city. But he put 0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:29.480 us together and we we uh we in in a 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:34.080 sixth probably in a six month period of time, we 0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:38.280 did a Rudy Valley on Broadway to night television show. 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:42.560 We did a off Broadway play that was off off 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:46.160 Broadway in two weeks. Very quickly, we did a supper 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.359 club tour of Texas, and I'm trying to think there 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:51.880 was one other thing we made that record for for 0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:55.040 Roulette Records called they call us a Go Go Singers. 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:57.319 So we did all of that, then it broke up. 0:46:58.000 --> 0:47:02.840 And when it broke up, uh, Steven's the Bass Singers, 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:07.080 I guess had booked a little tour across Canada, and 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:10.799 Stephen went with them as their lead singer because they 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.279 really didn't have a lead singer. And that's where he 0:47:13.360 --> 0:47:18.000 met Neil Young in Toronto, and so he told Neil man, 0:47:18.080 --> 0:47:20.640 come on down to to New York or whatever, you know, 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:22.480 if you need to do anything down there, because we've 0:47:22.560 --> 0:47:24.600 kept an apartment down there, and I would come down 0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:27.880 and and stay at the apartment and do auditions in 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:30.320 New York myself when I was working up at Pratt 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:32.160 and Whitney Aircraft, because I was working at Pratt and 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:36.160 Whitney at the time. Okay, you're in the Go Go Singers. Yeah, 0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:38.320 how do you end up working at Pratt? And when 0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:41.160 when the group broke up, I needed to eat and 0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:45.000 doing auditions wasn't paying me anything. But there were things 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:47.759 that we're going on. Uh, you know, I called my 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:51.239 cousin who um uh you mentioned in the in in 0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:54.719 your liner notes of the of the Delivering record, you know, 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:57.759 my cousin up at Pratt and Whitney, and uh he 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:01.640 convinced you know, I con tim basically that I was 0:48:01.680 --> 0:48:05.600 in for the gold Watch and u uh he had 0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:09.799 me come up and I was actually uh dating basically 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:12.719 one of the uh the girls in the base thing 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.600 or her sister at the time. They lived in Massachusetts, 0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:19.160 So I went up and and stayed with that family 0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:25.600 while I commuted from Wilbraham down to East Hartford. And um, 0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:28.759 so that's how I started working at Pratt and Whitney Aircraft. 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:32.759 And UM, I don't want to get ahead on myself here. 0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:34.319 I want to make sure I got all that right. 0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:37.400 So yeah, basically when when the Agogla Singers broke up, 0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:40.279 I just needed to eat. And a living across the 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:43.839 street from me in New York City, though, was Graham Parsons. 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:49.440 And Graham's the one that really kind of I gotta 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:53.000 say he was. He was really a force in getting 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:55.360 me to call Stephen to find out what he was doing, 0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:58.080 because there was nothing happening for me. I was handing 0:48:58.080 --> 0:48:59.760 out tools in the tool crib, and I was probably 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:02.480 gonna be handing out tools in the tool crib until 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:04.520 the day I died if something didn't happen. And what 0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:08.239 happened was Graham brought the Bird's first record up to 0:49:08.280 --> 0:49:09.839 me and he said, you got to hear this. This 0:49:09.920 --> 0:49:12.560 is fantastic. And when I listened to it Bob and 0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:15.279 heard it, it was like I never heard anything like it. 0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:18.520 Here's Bob Dylan electric. You know, It's like, oh my gosh, 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:20.680 this is terrific. And so I got ahold of Stephen, 0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:24.319 and um, I think, as you elated to in in 0:49:24.360 --> 0:49:26.360 the in the liner notes, you know, I didn't know 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:29.040 how to get ahold of Stephen, but I contacted his dad, 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:32.440 sent him a letter, give me Steven's address, give me 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:34.799 is you know, give me somehow to get in touch 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:37.120 with him. And I waited and I waited, I wait 0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:39.160 and I waited, and I thought, oh my gosh, the 0:49:39.239 --> 0:49:41.319 letter did never reach him because he was in El 0:49:41.360 --> 0:49:44.080 Salvador and I had I mean, I was, I don't 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:46.840 even know how I had that address. I really don't 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:49.680 to this day know how I had that address. But 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:54.080 the letter came back no postage, not enough, not enough postage, 0:49:54.080 --> 0:49:57.000 and it was like, oh my gosh, Uh so I've 0:49:57.040 --> 0:49:59.719 got enough postage, sent it back, and you know what, 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:02.800 within two or three weeks, I was in touch with Stephen. 0:50:03.160 --> 0:50:05.759 He had moved from his he was up in San 0:50:05.800 --> 0:50:07.920 Francisco with it at his mom and had moved down 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:10.520 to Los Angeles and he said, hey, come on out 0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:12.840 to l A. I've got a band together. All I 0:50:12.880 --> 0:50:16.880 need is another singer. We're ready to go. And I said, 0:50:17.480 --> 0:50:19.319 let me take care of business here and I'll be 0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:22.680 out there now. That was pretty bold on me because 0:50:22.719 --> 0:50:25.200 I had also heard Stephen a couple of months earlier 0:50:25.239 --> 0:50:28.480 try to put a night owl, uh love and spoonful 0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:32.960 type band together and it was awful handy, I mean, 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:35.759 it was a train wreck. Actually, I backed Stephen and 0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:37.520 I talked about this a couple of weeks ago, and 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:40.240 he didn't even remember doing it, so you know it 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:44.520 it had to be bad, man. But uh, handing out 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:47.240 tools into tool croup sounded better. So for me to say, 0:50:47.440 --> 0:50:49.839 I'm on my way to go clear across country, man, 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:54.440 this was a big step. And uh, interestingly enough, when 0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:56.600 I got out there, I waited at the at the 0:50:56.760 --> 0:51:00.800 l A Airport, and I watched all these little yellow 0:51:00.920 --> 0:51:04.440 they looked like vacuum cleaners driving around that little circle 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:06.839 on the at the airport. Man. It was it was 0:51:06.880 --> 0:51:09.920 like these little cars, man, And the one that stuck 0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:12.880 out was a bright yellow car. They were Porsches, you know, 0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:16.720 these nine eleven Porsches, and and watch them go around 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:18.799 and go around and go around and find a little 0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:21.680 v w you know, keep packed up and and and 0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:24.120 stopped in front of me, you know. And it was 0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:28.040 it was Stephen and he was with Dickie Davis, and uh, 0:51:28.680 --> 0:51:31.920 uh you know, we went back to I don't know 0:51:31.960 --> 0:51:34.680 if it was Dickie's house or Steven's apartment or whatever, 0:51:34.840 --> 0:51:37.400 but that was how we, you know, the whole thing started. 0:51:37.400 --> 0:51:39.400 But when I got there, there was no band. It 0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:43.640 was me and him, and it was like, oh boy, 0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:46.400 what have I done now, you know, because this was 0:51:46.480 --> 0:51:49.040 like I come all the way across country, I've i've 0:51:49.080 --> 0:51:52.359 I've quit my job, and there's no band. He had 0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:56.480 told me all I need is another singer, and I said, okay, 0:51:56.520 --> 0:51:58.759 but when I get But you know what, that all 0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:03.080 worked out perfect. And it worked out perfect because for 0:52:03.280 --> 0:52:07.360 probably a month, maybe three weeks, three to four weeks, 0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:12.240 we sat in this little apartment on Fountain Avenue, sitting 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:15.560 right across from one another. Stephen had written all the 0:52:15.640 --> 0:52:18.840 songs that he wrote for the first Buffalo Springfield Record, 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:23.719 and we learned to harmonize, we learned a phrase, We 0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:26.400 learned to sing in unison because the Beatles were like 0:52:26.480 --> 0:52:28.919 you know, they were like that, yeah man, and so 0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:31.319 it was like the Lennon and McCartney. And then when 0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:34.120 and when Lennon McCartney sang together, yeah, I mean there 0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:36.719 were three, you know, with George Harrison and Paul and 0:52:36.719 --> 0:52:39.080 George and John they were all lead singers. But then 0:52:39.239 --> 0:52:43.000 Paul and John would sing together, and so Steve and 0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:45.600 I learned to sing unison. We learned to sing harmony, 0:52:45.600 --> 0:52:47.960 we learned a phrase, and so when we went in 0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:50.600 to make the record, which was actually at gold Star 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.200 on a four track, you know, uh, you know, some 0:52:54.239 --> 0:52:57.080 of some of the singing we had already just we 0:52:57.120 --> 0:53:00.160 had already leveled it, you know, but we hadn't at 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:04.440 Neil yet. It was just me and him. Okay, So 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:06.640 how did the band ultimately come together? And how long 0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:09.080 did it take? You know, I don't know the time frame. 0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:12.480 We had a guy, Barry Friedman, who was working with us. 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:17.120 Uh later changed his name to Fraser Mohawk and uh, 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:20.200 he was he was he was helping us out. Um 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:22.480 and Stephen and I were kind of like living up 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:24.640 in a little place in front of his house. In 0:53:24.680 --> 0:53:28.000 the back. He was working with another group called Maston 0:53:28.080 --> 0:53:31.560 and Brewer, which later became Brewer and Brewer and then 0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:34.759 Brewer and Shipley. Uh so it was Tom Maston and 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:38.640 and and Mike Brewer and UM. They were putting a 0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:41.880 band together. Barry didn't think that we were ready, so 0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:44.880 he took us down his screen Gems and Stephen that 0:53:45.000 --> 0:53:47.399 was when Steven sold sit Down, I Think I Love 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:49.840 You two screen Gems and the Mojo Men made a 0:53:49.880 --> 0:53:52.200 hit out of it. I sold a song called My 0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:54.280 Kind Of love. We both sold him for a hundred 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:57.000 bucks man and that was it. But but I think 0:53:57.040 --> 0:54:00.799 Stephen did better than I did with with Mojo Man. 0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:04.800 But anyway, Um, that's that's what helped us live for 0:54:04.840 --> 0:54:07.920 a little bit. And we just kept doing our thing 0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:11.600 until one day we're on Sunset Boulevard and I have 0:54:11.760 --> 0:54:15.280 no idea. Um, you know, Barry didn't think we were ready, 0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:17.279 and but we were hanging out with him and we 0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:20.680 were driving down Sunset Boulevard. We were actually going west 0:54:21.239 --> 0:54:25.879 and he was uh and and Neil, I'm sorry, we 0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:29.200 were going east. We were coming east. Neil and Bruce 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:37.560 in Niel's old hearse with Ontario license plates. Kind of 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:40.440 we crossed right there. I don't know what the intersection is, 0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:44.560 but it used to be Ben Frank's and yeah, it's 0:54:45.040 --> 0:54:46.440 I don't know what it is that what is it 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:49.920 that uh today changed to a chain? But you're just 0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:55.000 west of Lasiana, Yeah, La Sienega and there's a traffic cam. 0:54:55.480 --> 0:54:58.480 Figure it out. Figure it out. No, I mean, this 0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:00.600 is like fate happening right a way, you know. I 0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:03.280 mean Steven has already been a friend of of Nil's. 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:06.400 Neil had come down to New York to pedal songs 0:55:06.400 --> 0:55:09.480 and I I met him down there. He actually taught me. 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:13.400 Nowadays Clancy can't even sing at that particular time. But 0:55:13.520 --> 0:55:16.399 here we are on Sunset Boulevard. They have been there, 0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:19.239 Bruce and and Neil had been there for I don't 0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:22.560 know for weeks anyway, And again this is well before 0:55:23.000 --> 0:55:26.600 cell phones and computers, and you know, nobody knew how 0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:29.520 to get in in touch with one another. And Bruce 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:32.560 and and Neil were leaving town. They were heading west 0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:35.360 on on Sunset Boulevard to the four oh five to 0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:37.440 go to San Francisco. They were done with l A. 0:55:37.920 --> 0:55:39.960 And there we were, man right there at that little 0:55:40.000 --> 0:55:44.959 intersection or nearby where where Ben Franks was and and uh, 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:48.120 Stephen or and I. I. I've heard so many stories 0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:50.239 of how it happened, But in our car, I don't 0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:51.680 know who it was, if it was me or here 0:55:51.800 --> 0:55:54.440 you nobody. Wow, look at that. That's gotta be new 0:55:54.640 --> 0:55:57.839 young man, and that stupid looking Hurst man with Ontario 0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:00.520 license plate. And sure enough, man in the middle of 0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:03.719 a traffic jam, we got everybody turned around and pulled 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:06.600 into Ben Frank's parking lot and there was Neil. We 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:09.400 took him back to the apartment, played him some of 0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:11.600 the things that we were doing that Stephen and I 0:56:11.640 --> 0:56:14.560 were working on steven songs and I had actually played 0:56:14.800 --> 0:56:18.560 and taught Stephen. Nowadays, Clancy can't even sing at the time, 0:56:18.600 --> 0:56:20.880 so we were able to like audition that if you 0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:24.160 will for Neil, and he was sold. And so now 0:56:24.200 --> 0:56:26.720 we've got a We've got a two lead guitar players 0:56:26.719 --> 0:56:29.239 and a realthic guitar player and a bass player. We 0:56:29.280 --> 0:56:31.800 need a drummer. But there's the beginnings of the band 0:56:31.920 --> 0:56:34.560 right there. How does it become the band? How does 0:56:34.600 --> 0:56:37.840 it become Buffalo Springfield? How do you get a record deal? Well, 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:42.480 we became a band. Um Again, Barry was trying to 0:56:42.520 --> 0:56:46.200 put us together with a couple other people, and he 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:48.319 tried to put us together with Billy Mundy and I 0:56:48.360 --> 0:56:52.719 love Billy, Billy say sweet guy. Um but um it 0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:56.480 didn't work. And somehow another David Crosby and Chris Hillman 0:56:56.640 --> 0:57:00.279 both you know, had found out about us and knew 0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:03.319 that we were looking for a drummer. And they were 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:08.719 being managed by uh dis uh Tickner and Dixon at 0:57:08.760 --> 0:57:13.400 the time, and the Dillards were also being were managed 0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:17.120 by them, and they were a blue grass group that 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:19.840 had tried to you know, put bass and drums, make 0:57:20.000 --> 0:57:22.160 you know, make it a little more lively with stuff, 0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:24.520 and that it wasn't working for him. And Dewey Martin 0:57:24.680 --> 0:57:28.840 was their drummer, and so it all turned around that 0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:33.920 Dewey was introduced to us and um uh so when 0:57:33.960 --> 0:57:35.960 he auditioned, he said, the only thing, you know, if 0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:38.240 if he gets it, the only thing he wanted to 0:57:38.240 --> 0:57:40.160 do is be able to sing a little bit, you know, 0:57:40.200 --> 0:57:44.800 because he said, I sing like Wilson Pickett. And so anyway, 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:47.240 we listened to Dewey and you and you know Bob 0:57:47.880 --> 0:57:50.560 so often it's like this. You know, it might not 0:57:50.680 --> 0:57:54.040 be the greatest players, might not be the greatest singers 0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:57.920 or whatever, but you know what, it worked. It worked 0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:02.360 somehow with Bruce and Dewey. Bruce was a phenomenal bass player. 0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:06.240 Dewey was a very simple drummer, you know, but it 0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:09.480 just worked for us. And and that's that's what, you know, 0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:12.320 The band worked like that, and it wasn't. Man, I 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:15.320 don't know if it was. Uh, I don't know how 0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:18.040 much it was weeks you know that we were actually 0:58:18.080 --> 0:58:20.480 going out and we were opening up for the Birds 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:22.920 doing some of their concerts at that time, and it 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:25.840 was like crazy. And then then we became the house 0:58:25.880 --> 0:58:30.440 band along with the Doors and Love and um Um 0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:32.960 maybe leaves in a couple of the other bands, you know, 0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:35.000 the l A bands at the time at the Whiskey 0:58:35.000 --> 0:58:38.120 Igogo thanks to Chris and and and David at the 0:58:38.120 --> 0:58:41.520 same time. You know. But that was how you know 0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:43.640 it all started. You know, they heard us and they 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:47.480 got us. Uh, they got us, Dewey, and Dewey was 0:58:47.520 --> 0:58:51.560 satisfied and uh, there you go. Okay, tell us the 0:58:51.680 --> 0:58:54.520 story of how you name it Buffalo Springfield and how 0:58:54.560 --> 0:58:57.040 you actually get the record deal. Okay, Well, you know, 0:58:57.280 --> 0:58:59.880 we didn't have much money at that time, so I 0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:02.680 think we'd I think we're going out to Pioneer Chicken. 0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:11.080 You remember Pioneer Man. That is the best cheap chicken 0:59:11.120 --> 0:59:13.640 in town. And I gotta jelly. I loved it, man. 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:16.920 And so we had gone down to Pioneer Chicken Man 0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:21.080 and got some chicken, and we're coming back and there 0:59:21.120 --> 0:59:23.120 was there was a steam roller. They were doing some 0:59:23.160 --> 0:59:28.080 work on Fountain is an avenue or Bulevard It is avenue. Yeah, 0:59:28.440 --> 0:59:31.840 on Fountain Avenue and there was a Buffalo Springfield steam 0:59:31.960 --> 0:59:34.919 Rollers that was there, and somebody, I don't know who 0:59:34.960 --> 0:59:37.320 it was, I'm not gonna take credit for it, took 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:41.240 one of the ten signs off and um came back 0:59:41.240 --> 0:59:43.480 to Barry's house in the way I remember it man 0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:45.920 as we put it up on the Barry Friedman's Uh. 0:59:46.160 --> 0:59:47.960 He had a little fireplace in his house, put it 0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:50.919 up on the mantel and said, looks like a name. 0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:52.560 You know, now we've got a name for the band, 0:59:52.560 --> 0:59:57.080 Buffalo Springfield and uh. Um. I don't know how long 0:59:57.120 --> 1:00:01.560 it was that we got introduced to Charlie Green and 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:06.840 Brian Stone. Um they were they were managing Sunny and 1:00:06.960 --> 1:00:10.959 Share at the time. You know, I can't remember how 1:00:11.000 --> 1:00:16.960 they became involved with us. Uh, Barry must have introduced us. 1:00:17.960 --> 1:00:21.880 Um I'm an rdigan. Oh gosh, I'm I'm I feel 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:24.040 like uh, I feel like I'm really old. Now I'm 1:00:24.080 --> 1:00:27.240 short circuiting because I can't remember this this exact little 1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:32.920 part about how who introduced. For some reason, I'm thinking 1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:36.280 that I'm an Erdigan introduced us to Charlie and Brian. 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:38.480 But Charlie and Brian had Sonny and Share. I don't 1:00:38.480 --> 1:00:40.800 know how there's a there's something going on there. I'll 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:42.440 have to go back and read one of my stories 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:45.600 when I was younger to see if I remember. Man. Okay, 1:00:45.640 --> 1:00:49.080 so what does Ahmed say about the band? I'm an erdigan. 1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:55.400 Loved the band. He was knocked out. I mean, I 1:00:55.400 --> 1:00:58.360 mean he really, he really loved the band. I don't 1:00:58.400 --> 1:01:02.760 know if you remember around the time the Buffalo Springfield 1:01:02.880 --> 1:01:06.040 was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Uh, 1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:08.480 you know, he got up there and there were almost 1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:11.080 tears in his eyes that he he was talking about 1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:15.800 the time when uh, you know, we we broke up. Basically, Um, 1:01:15.880 --> 1:01:18.160 he was he was, he was a good man, and 1:01:18.200 --> 1:01:21.480 we really liked domand a lot and Ahmad really uh 1:01:21.520 --> 1:01:24.360 he supported the band. Unfortunately, you know, we didn't really 1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:27.760 stay together long enough to uh he he did help 1:01:27.840 --> 1:01:30.880 us though, Uh in in in with for for what 1:01:31.000 --> 1:01:33.920 it's worth? Uh the song because he's the one that 1:01:33.960 --> 1:01:36.040 actually heard the song. Yeah, I tell you a little 1:01:36.040 --> 1:01:39.960 story about that. We the first the first album didn't 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:45.440 really um, it didn't have the sales that they thought 1:01:45.480 --> 1:01:49.320 and and my opinion is they released the wrong single. Nowadays, 1:01:49.360 --> 1:01:52.160 Clancy was too Esoteric to be the first single. I'm 1:01:52.160 --> 1:01:54.480 sorry to say that I love the song, but I 1:01:54.520 --> 1:01:56.560 think if we would have released do I have to 1:01:56.600 --> 1:01:59.120 come right out and say it, I think it had 1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:03.120 more accessibility to people at the time. It was a 1:02:03.160 --> 1:02:05.400 love song and had a good melody and had a 1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:09.120 hook to it, you know. But that's that's regardless of that. Uh. 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:13.120 We we had all gathered together at Steven's house and uh, 1:02:13.280 --> 1:02:15.520 he wanted to hear songs if we had songs for 1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:18.840 the next album, and um, you know, Neil played his 1:02:18.960 --> 1:02:21.960 songs and Stephen played his songs, and I played my songs, 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.440 and as everybody's kind of packing up at the end 1:02:24.480 --> 1:02:27.440 of the day, Uh, the way I remember, Stephen said, well, 1:02:27.720 --> 1:02:31.000 I've got another one, for what It's Worth, and that 1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:34.360 was it, and Alma said, we gotta record that right now, 1:02:34.480 --> 1:02:36.680 and so we went back into the We went back 1:02:36.680 --> 1:02:38.680 into the studio and recorded for what It's Worth and 1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:41.000 it took one of Stephen's songs, baby Don't Scold Me 1:02:41.600 --> 1:02:44.800 off of the first album and then re re released 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:46.720 it again with for what It's Worth on it. But 1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:56.440 that's how I remember it came about. Okay, so that 1:02:56.720 --> 1:03:01.280 was about the Sunset Strip riots. You were there, what 1:03:01.360 --> 1:03:04.000 was your sensation of what was going on? Well, I 1:03:04.040 --> 1:03:07.800 did not see the riots. Steven did, obviously he had 1:03:08.160 --> 1:03:11.280 right there at the last Uh yeah, las Cienaga, suns 1:03:11.320 --> 1:03:14.760 up Boulevard Laurel Canyon. There was a little triangle there, 1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:18.000 there was a there was a club there called Pandora's Box, 1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:23.320 and um, the police had decided a gathering like that 1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:26.440 was a little bit more than what they really wanted, 1:03:26.880 --> 1:03:29.280 and so they were trying to shut the place down, 1:03:29.720 --> 1:03:32.360 clear out all the traffic. And that's what Stephen was. 1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:36.919 He there's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. 1:03:37.080 --> 1:03:39.600 There's a man with a gun over there, and telling 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:41.800 us we'd better be aware. And so, I mean, he 1:03:41.880 --> 1:03:43.720 it was perfect, you know. I think he wrote the 1:03:43.760 --> 1:03:46.040 song just like that. But so, yeah, they wanted to 1:03:46.040 --> 1:03:50.280 shut down Pandora's Box, and you know, things were intense 1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:54.720 at that time. Um. I remember, uh, you know, being 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:58.320 at the Whiskey sometimes and and I would avoid I 1:03:58.360 --> 1:04:01.520 was down at living off of hermosa and and um 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:05.240 a fountain at the time, and with with Dickie Davis, 1:04:05.960 --> 1:04:10.000 and I remember I would avoid Sunset Strip and go 1:04:10.080 --> 1:04:12.160 down a block, you know, to where you could just 1:04:12.600 --> 1:04:16.840 down the fountain basically, And I remember that a little 1:04:17.280 --> 1:04:21.160 convenience store had been broken into, and I got stopped 1:04:21.160 --> 1:04:25.880 by the cops and I remember distinctly man them asking 1:04:25.920 --> 1:04:28.480 for my I d or They didn't say i'd either. 1:04:28.600 --> 1:04:32.960 They said driver's license, and I said, I'm not driving. 1:04:33.680 --> 1:04:35.360 That was not the That was not the right thing 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:38.880 to say, because that was not at that particular time 1:04:39.080 --> 1:04:40.640 in my life. That was not the right thing to 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:42.880 say because I didn't I know what was going on. 1:04:42.960 --> 1:04:45.480 But they want to check me out. And I said, well, 1:04:45.520 --> 1:04:48.480 I'm not driving. He said, show me your driver's license 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:51.200 right now, because I want to see him. And if 1:04:51.240 --> 1:04:52.760 you don't show it to me, I'm gonna knock you 1:04:52.840 --> 1:04:55.520 on your You can you can fill in the blanks. 1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:58.880 So what did I do. I pulled out my driver's 1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:02.320 license man and showed him. But yeah, it was so, 1:05:02.520 --> 1:05:04.480 I mean, there was there was some intense things going 1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:07.120 on in l A at that time. And and um, 1:05:07.160 --> 1:05:11.800 obviously you know, with long hair and hippies and and 1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:14.960 uh kind of like that, you know, we were, we 1:05:15.080 --> 1:05:17.520 were we could have definitely been tagged at the time, 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:20.200 you know, Okay, so you cut for what it's worth. 1:05:20.240 --> 1:05:22.640 I'm it said, that's a hit. Tell us about cutting 1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:24.960 that track to the degree you remember, it went right 1:05:24.960 --> 1:05:26.920 over my head. I mean, when I'm gonna heard it, 1:05:26.960 --> 1:05:29.360 the song went right over my head. I said, that's 1:05:29.400 --> 1:05:31.920 a nice little folks song. Man. I was into Bluebird 1:05:31.920 --> 1:05:34.080 and rock and roll woman and Mr Soul and I was. 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:35.880 I was into the rock and roll at the time, 1:05:35.880 --> 1:05:39.440 and here we got this little bing bing you know, 1:05:39.920 --> 1:05:42.560 something happened. You know. To me, it was a nice 1:05:42.600 --> 1:05:44.480 little folks song. But I was wanting to play for 1:05:44.600 --> 1:05:47.320 rock and roll, so it basically went over my head. 1:05:47.320 --> 1:05:49.680 But Ahmad knew, he knew that there was a hook 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:53.040 in there that uh that that had something, you know, 1:05:54.200 --> 1:05:57.520 something that he could latch onto. Okay, so what was 1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:01.400 it like when they had to begin a huge smash. 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:04.480 There were nine people in and out of Buffalo Springfield 1:06:04.480 --> 1:06:07.640 in two years, so you can figure out what was 1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:10.000 going on. Even though there was a hit going on. 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:13.600 Neil I I don't think Neil ever really settled into 1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:16.360 wanting to be in the band, I really don't. I 1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:18.280 think he always wanted to be a solo guy. And 1:06:18.320 --> 1:06:20.920 that's fine. You know, I don't have any problem with that. 1:06:20.960 --> 1:06:22.640 I love Neil to this day, you know, I don't 1:06:22.680 --> 1:06:26.560 have a problem with it, and and all. But he 1:06:26.640 --> 1:06:29.720 was he was off. He he had been off and 1:06:29.760 --> 1:06:32.440 starting to do his own thing. Nick Bruce had been 1:06:32.480 --> 1:06:36.360 busted a couple of times and had been deported. So 1:06:36.440 --> 1:06:39.080 we were having trouble. And here we got this hit record, 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:42.120 and I think we went back to Boston, you know, 1:06:42.400 --> 1:06:44.040 and and we were gonna go to New York and 1:06:44.040 --> 1:06:46.280 be on the Johnny Carson Show. And Neil never showed 1:06:46.360 --> 1:06:48.840 up at the UH at the airport, you know, so 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:51.040 we went back and that was the only time that 1:06:51.120 --> 1:06:53.600 I can ever remember we got fired from a gig 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:56.480 in Boston where we played one night with four of 1:06:56.560 --> 1:06:58.920 us and they said, you guys don't need to come 1:06:58.960 --> 1:07:05.240 back tomorrow. Not so um. It was tough. I mean, 1:07:05.400 --> 1:07:07.520 it was hard because we did we had a hit record. 1:07:08.000 --> 1:07:10.440 We had, I mean, who you couldn't ask for anything 1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:12.560 more at that time, and you we had a hit record. 1:07:12.600 --> 1:07:15.240 We were on our way, and there was so much 1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:18.280 craziness going on, you know, because we just couldn't juggle 1:07:18.280 --> 1:07:20.320 the band. It was like one step forward and two 1:07:20.320 --> 1:07:22.680 steps back. So it was. It was a struggle. So 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:26.480 how did it ultimately break up? I remember appearances without 1:07:26.560 --> 1:07:28.520 you know young one night I saw you, you know, 1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:31.080 how did everybody say this is the end for me? 1:07:31.680 --> 1:07:34.400 As long as Stephen was in the band? I had 1:07:34.880 --> 1:07:37.200 in my heart, I said, I'm gonna be in the band. 1:07:37.320 --> 1:07:39.880 We were friends from New York. I was gonna be 1:07:39.960 --> 1:07:43.720 with him. But when Stephen decided, you know, hey, enough 1:07:43.800 --> 1:07:45.960 is enough, you know, And it never got down to 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:50.680 enough is enough. I mean he never said that, but basically, 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:53.200 you know, he he was off and and started to 1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:55.040 go off to do some other things, and and and 1:07:55.080 --> 1:07:58.440 we just knew it it was over. Um, we were 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:01.760 doing beach Boy tours and I mean we were really 1:08:01.800 --> 1:08:03.840 living the life. It was fun at that time. There 1:08:03.880 --> 1:08:06.480 was a lot of stuff that was going on. But again, 1:08:06.520 --> 1:08:09.640 we just couldn't keep up with with the with the traction. 1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:12.880 Jimmy Messina was now playing bass with us at the time, 1:08:13.480 --> 1:08:16.120 and we just couldn't We couldn't keep up with the 1:08:16.320 --> 1:08:19.719 uh with with all the changes, and finally, you know, Stephen, 1:08:20.160 --> 1:08:21.880 we just knew it was over. And so when it 1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:24.920 was over, Jimmy and I had become friends and we 1:08:24.960 --> 1:08:29.160 had basically said, if ever this falls apart, you know, 1:08:29.960 --> 1:08:32.800 why don't we just go ahead and pick it up 1:08:32.840 --> 1:08:37.240 and pick up the pieces? Okay, when Steven left, did 1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:40.080 you have any idea he was gonna cook up with 1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:43.360 Crosby and Mash. I didn't know at that particular time 1:08:43.400 --> 1:08:48.680 he was doing the Mike Bloomfield Umson Uh, the super sessions, right, 1:08:49.240 --> 1:08:51.519 and so I didn't know it at that time. No, 1:08:51.920 --> 1:08:56.840 So tell me about the formation of Poco. Well, Uh, 1:08:57.240 --> 1:08:59.880 Jimmy and I had decided that we were gonna con 1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:02.240 canue on. At this time, Amma had come to him 1:09:02.280 --> 1:09:05.720 and asked him to ask Jimmy because Jimmy was an 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:08.479 engine and Jimmy's a He's brilliant. I mean he really is. 1:09:08.560 --> 1:09:13.680 He's not only a fantastic uh and and uh stylized 1:09:13.720 --> 1:09:17.760 guitar player, but he really understands, you know, the technical 1:09:17.840 --> 1:09:20.800 aspects of recording. And Ama already gonna come to him 1:09:20.800 --> 1:09:24.799 and asked him if he would finish uh last time around. 1:09:25.160 --> 1:09:27.479 And that's when everybody was just coming with bits and 1:09:27.479 --> 1:09:30.080 pieces of songs or not bits and pieces. But here's 1:09:30.080 --> 1:09:31.599 the song for you, here's the song for you. Put 1:09:31.640 --> 1:09:34.120 him together. I think the only song, I I think 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:36.040 the only song that the that the full band was 1:09:36.080 --> 1:09:37.800 on at that time was on the Way Home. I 1:09:37.840 --> 1:09:41.800 think I don't I can't remember for sure, but um 1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:45.720 so we've we finished that album, but we wanted to 1:09:45.760 --> 1:09:48.599 put a steel guitar on a song of mine called 1:09:48.680 --> 1:09:53.240 kind Woman and a road manager of ours at the time, 1:09:53.479 --> 1:09:55.240 because Jimmy and I didn't have a clue who do 1:09:55.360 --> 1:09:57.479 I mean, we had names that we could have called. 1:09:57.920 --> 1:10:01.439 But a guy named Miles tom m us Uh came 1:10:01.479 --> 1:10:03.800 and he said, look, I know the best deal guitar player. 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:07.120 Where his young guy back in Denver, Colorado, and and 1:10:07.520 --> 1:10:11.200 he would be great on this song sight Unseen. We 1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:13.640 got ahold of him, told him to come out. You know, 1:10:13.720 --> 1:10:15.840 we got him out to We didn't tell him were 1:10:15.840 --> 1:10:18.160 you pay to get We paid his way out to 1:10:18.280 --> 1:10:23.679 Colorado and um and and uh he came out Rusty 1:10:23.760 --> 1:10:25.519 played on the song. I think when he played on 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:27.760 the song, Jimmy and I kind of looked at each 1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:31.800 other and said, there's our guy, you know. And so 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:35.040 when he got through with kind Woman, Uh, we started 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:38.320 talking to him about joining the band. And we didn't 1:10:38.320 --> 1:10:41.120 have a drummer. We didn't have a bass player. So 1:10:41.240 --> 1:10:43.320 he said, I know a drummer. I mean, I've been 1:10:43.320 --> 1:10:46.479 playing with this guy back in Colorado and he's a 1:10:46.560 --> 1:10:51.400 great drummer, and he's also a really good high he 1:10:51.439 --> 1:10:55.240 sings high harmonies. George grant them and so we got 1:10:55.400 --> 1:10:58.200 George out to Colorado and George joined the band. So 1:10:58.280 --> 1:11:00.960 once again here we are with four people, but this 1:11:01.040 --> 1:11:03.439 time we got the drummer. We don't have the bass player. 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:07.600 And so Myles Thomas, I think again, was instrumental in 1:11:08.040 --> 1:11:14.479 recommending Randy Meisner and um, Timothy B. Schmidt both. Timmy 1:11:14.560 --> 1:11:17.000 was in a band named Glad at the time, and 1:11:17.040 --> 1:11:19.120 I'm trying to think Randy was in a group called 1:11:19.120 --> 1:11:23.839 the Poor and um we we auditioned Randy and Timothy 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:25.599 at the same time. I'm not at the same time, 1:11:25.640 --> 1:11:28.519 but on the same day from what I remember, and 1:11:28.720 --> 1:11:32.240 um it was kind of cool. Um uh you know 1:11:32.320 --> 1:11:36.040 when when Randy, uh we we settled on Randy and 1:11:36.160 --> 1:11:38.840 I got a letter though from Timothy, which was I 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:41.080 just found it in a box of stuff, maybe about 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:44.960 five or six years ago, and Timothy had written he said, man, 1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:47.519 I really thank you for the time. I mean, you know, 1:11:47.600 --> 1:11:51.320 Timothy and he's just the sweetest guy in the world. Matthy. 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:54.320 You can see this letter, and it's really I just 1:11:54.360 --> 1:11:57.000 thank you so much for letting me have the privilege 1:11:57.040 --> 1:11:59.800 of of of auditioning for you, and I know you'll 1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:01.800 may the right choice. And I just want you to 1:12:01.800 --> 1:12:03.680 tell you how honored I was to be able to 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:07.000 have this opportunity and all and and then Randy of 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:10.000 course got got the gig. But I framed that little 1:12:10.120 --> 1:12:12.280 letter and sent it off to Timothy because I thought 1:12:12.320 --> 1:12:14.559 he needed he it should be in his possession more 1:12:14.640 --> 1:12:17.120 than mine. But then he turned out to be in 1:12:17.120 --> 1:12:19.880 the band. A little bit later on when Randy, you know, decided, 1:12:20.240 --> 1:12:22.920 you know, for reasons, you know, there's different reasons that 1:12:23.120 --> 1:12:26.040 that he had for not uh um, you know, stick 1:12:26.120 --> 1:12:29.519 stick with the band. But that's how basically the band 1:12:29.560 --> 1:12:32.559 with George and Rusty and Jimmy and myself and Randy 1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:34.760 got together. How do you end up on Epic? Well, 1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:37.760 that was the first base and only baseball trade of 1:12:37.920 --> 1:12:42.160 the music business, because Crosby, Stills and Nash was getting together, 1:12:42.760 --> 1:12:47.439 Graham was on Epic, I was on Atlantic. Ahmad were 1:12:47.760 --> 1:12:54.840 wanted Crosby, Stills and Nash and uh so um. In 1:12:55.320 --> 1:12:59.000 order for you know, us to end up on on Epic, uh, 1:12:59.080 --> 1:13:01.840 you know, Live Davis had to be willing to give 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:04.800 up and go for Graham Nake. Now, don't don't make 1:13:04.880 --> 1:13:06.600 me get into this. Who got the best deal? You 1:13:06.640 --> 1:13:10.960 know because as as a as success went, you know, 1:13:11.400 --> 1:13:14.800 but that's basically what happened. It was a swap. You know. 1:13:14.840 --> 1:13:17.280 There wasn't really much to it except to swap. Graham 1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:19.679 went over to Atlantic and I went over to the Epic. 1:13:19.920 --> 1:13:23.120 I have to ask, do you believe if you'd been 1:13:23.160 --> 1:13:27.559 on Atlantic it would have played out differently? I don't know. 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:30.040 I can't tell you. Okay, So this is very much 1:13:30.120 --> 1:13:37.320 your band. The record comes out, has phenomenal reviews, phenomenal reviews, 1:13:37.479 --> 1:13:39.920 and it sells. It's an album era, but there's not 1:13:40.040 --> 1:13:42.719 a hit, right And of course at the same time, 1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:46.160 Crossby Stills in Nash blow up. What's going through your head? 1:13:46.320 --> 1:13:49.599 You know? There was there was disappoint where with our band, 1:13:50.160 --> 1:13:52.800 obviously because there was still the struggle with Randy who 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:55.360 even when it came you know, before the record came out, 1:13:55.400 --> 1:13:57.479 he had decided to leave and I thought, oh man, 1:13:57.479 --> 1:13:59.680 we're not gonna do what happened to the band, to 1:13:59.760 --> 1:14:01.840 the off of Springfield or the Birds and all this 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:06.080 here we here, we got it happening. So, you know, Bob, honestly, 1:14:06.600 --> 1:14:10.400 you know, I can't really say that, uh that there 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:12.560 was any I mean I was happy for Stephen and 1:14:12.920 --> 1:14:15.240 Graham and David at the time. I really was. I mean, 1:14:15.280 --> 1:14:18.280 I didn't think that we were in a competition. You know. 1:14:18.400 --> 1:14:20.240 All I knew was what I was doing, and I 1:14:20.280 --> 1:14:23.000 was focused in on what I was doing at the time. 1:14:23.320 --> 1:14:26.200 I heard the Crosby Stills and Nice record in David's 1:14:26.240 --> 1:14:29.759 apartment New York, and I thought, Wow, this is terrific. 1:14:30.200 --> 1:14:33.280 I was happy for him, I really was. What was 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:36.760 I not happy for my for for Poco? Because yeah, 1:14:36.800 --> 1:14:40.080 we were we were we were we like you said, 1:14:40.120 --> 1:14:44.520 we had wonderful reviews. We had uh you know, audiences. 1:14:44.560 --> 1:14:46.360 I mean we were playing at the Troubadaur I think 1:14:46.400 --> 1:14:49.360 at the time, and I mean we're having full houses. 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:51.120 It was great. I mean it was great. You know, 1:14:51.240 --> 1:14:54.599 we had everything but the hit record. Okay, Randy leaves 1:14:55.000 --> 1:14:58.040 and then Jim Leaves. What was going on there? I 1:14:58.080 --> 1:14:59.760 guess Jimmy, you know you're gonna have to talk to 1:14:59.840 --> 1:15:02.600 jim me about this because to this day, you know, 1:15:02.720 --> 1:15:05.280 I think he has issues that you know, I'm not 1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:07.400 even aware of, because he even said when I tried 1:15:07.439 --> 1:15:09.240 to get him to come when I was when I 1:15:09.280 --> 1:15:13.200 was recording uh the new album in the Country, Jimmy's 1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:15.120 moved to Nashville, and I wanted him to come, you know, 1:15:15.240 --> 1:15:17.800 and and there was there were some difficulties. And I'll 1:15:17.840 --> 1:15:20.280 be honest with you, man, I love Jimmy, I mean, 1:15:20.400 --> 1:15:23.760 I really do. But he he did not even want 1:15:23.760 --> 1:15:27.040 to come. I invited him to uh to get on 1:15:27.600 --> 1:15:31.719 uh my Heartbeatle Heartbeatle Love record with a Kind Woman 1:15:31.760 --> 1:15:33.400 and all that. I wanted Jimmy to sing on the 1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:35.519 song or do a song, and and he's not. I'm 1:15:35.560 --> 1:15:38.120 too busy, you know. But Kenny's on it. Kenny Loggins 1:15:38.200 --> 1:15:42.200 is on Kind Woman. And also, um, you know, Jimmy's 1:15:42.320 --> 1:15:46.240 Jimmy's issues were. I think he thinks I was too dominearing. 1:15:46.720 --> 1:15:49.320 That's what it was. He he thought I was too dominearing, 1:15:49.880 --> 1:15:53.479 and you know, who knows, maybe I was. I don't know. 1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:56.880 I apologized to him, I did if I was, I 1:15:56.960 --> 1:16:00.960 apologized to you, I did. I made that apology and 1:16:00.960 --> 1:16:03.479 and all. So when Jimmy left, it was it was 1:16:03.560 --> 1:16:06.320 kind of hurtful, but at the same time, you know, 1:16:06.439 --> 1:16:09.880 auditioning and looking for I think at the time that 1:16:10.000 --> 1:16:13.160 he left, we were looking for something a little more 1:16:13.360 --> 1:16:16.080 rock and roll than a little cut a little more country. 1:16:16.120 --> 1:16:17.760 Jimmy was a little more you. Jimmy was a little 1:16:17.760 --> 1:16:20.120 more James Burton, who was one of the greatest guitar 1:16:20.160 --> 1:16:22.360 players in the world, you know, I mean, James is 1:16:22.520 --> 1:16:26.040 absolutely terrific. And Jimmy had that he had that same 1:16:26.720 --> 1:16:31.120 he had that same uh stratocaster telecaster. You know, he 1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:34.479 was good. But we wanted something a little more electric, 1:16:34.560 --> 1:16:36.400 and so we set out. I mean, it wasn't like 1:16:36.479 --> 1:16:39.120 the end of the day, you know. And and Jimmy 1:16:39.200 --> 1:16:43.080 was actually very agreeable. Even when we got Paul Cotton, 1:16:43.360 --> 1:16:45.360 Jimmy said, look, I'll go on the road with you 1:16:45.479 --> 1:16:47.479 and I'll teach Paul all of all of the parts 1:16:47.479 --> 1:16:49.640 that I played. So, I mean, it was it was 1:16:49.680 --> 1:16:54.960 all amicable. I think that's the word, right. And and 1:16:54.960 --> 1:16:58.960 and Timmy, Timothy had already joined the band. After that. 1:16:58.960 --> 1:17:02.120 That was another trip. After you know, Randy quit, I 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:04.920 went up to Sacramento where Timothy was playing with his 1:17:05.000 --> 1:17:07.400 band and Dickie Davison. I went up and we were 1:17:07.439 --> 1:17:10.120 in also, jymnasiing up there where where his group Glad 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:13.040 was playing, and they all knew why I was there, 1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:16.120 you know, and asked timmoth Iffy if he was still 1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:18.000 up for joining the band, and he said yes, so 1:17:18.080 --> 1:17:20.439 he had come down. So we already had, you know, 1:17:20.720 --> 1:17:24.599 somebody to replace Randy, but we needed someone to replace 1:17:24.800 --> 1:17:27.680 uh Jimmy. And so when we we auditioned, uh, we 1:17:27.760 --> 1:17:30.920 auditioned Paul, who had been in Illinois speed Press passed 1:17:30.920 --> 1:17:36.080 away a little recently. Okay, so you sold Geron, you know. Ultimately, Crosby, 1:17:36.120 --> 1:17:38.800 Stills and Nash gets young and they implode. But there's 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:44.040 a million solo albums. Theoretically, Missina is gonna be a producer. 1:17:44.200 --> 1:17:47.639 Suddenly he hooks up with Loggins and they have huge hits. 1:17:48.120 --> 1:17:52.599 What's going through your head? I'm thinking, man, what about me? Literally? 1:17:52.720 --> 1:17:55.479 You know, I mean, I'm just as good as these guys. 1:17:55.920 --> 1:17:58.320 This is my ego speaking. This isn't really I mean, 1:17:58.320 --> 1:18:00.320 this is just my ego speaking to my heart. You know, 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:03.000 you're just you're just a good there? What what about me? 1:18:03.080 --> 1:18:06.559 But we couldn't, you know, come up with the hit 1:18:06.600 --> 1:18:08.720 record at the time. We couldn't. We couldn't come up 1:18:08.760 --> 1:18:11.120 at the hit and so I was. I was frustrated 1:18:11.400 --> 1:18:13.479 at that point in time. I was, because, yeah, they 1:18:13.520 --> 1:18:16.160 had all gone off, Jimmy and Randy and and all 1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:19.000 of them going off and haven't hit records, and and 1:18:19.240 --> 1:18:21.800 Steven and Neil and on, and it's like, whoa, I'm 1:18:21.880 --> 1:18:25.479 left behind here. Things work out the way they work out, though, 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:27.680 you know. I mean I got get over it, you know, 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:29.519 I got over it. But at the time, yeah, it 1:18:29.600 --> 1:18:32.639 was like I can't deny it, you know, I thought, yeah, man, 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:35.599 what do I mean? To what degree did you feel 1:18:35.640 --> 1:18:38.760 the pressure, whether from the company or yourself to make 1:18:38.800 --> 1:18:41.360 a hit record? And to what degree did you follow 1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:44.880 through on that? Well? I think I tried, and I 1:18:44.920 --> 1:18:49.439 wrote a song called good Feeling to Know, and everybody 1:18:49.479 --> 1:18:52.080 you know in our little camp thought we had Jack 1:18:52.160 --> 1:18:55.400 Richardson who we were looking for a producer at the time, 1:18:55.840 --> 1:18:59.280 we were looking for a hit record producer. I actually 1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:01.800 wanted Richie Poddler at the time because he had done 1:19:01.840 --> 1:19:04.080 Three Dog Night and Stepan Wolf and he was all 1:19:04.120 --> 1:19:08.160 over the radio and m epic wouldn't. They wouldn't go 1:19:08.200 --> 1:19:11.520 for it, And so we started looking for a producer 1:19:11.560 --> 1:19:14.439 and we all settled on Jack Richardson, who was doing 1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:18.920 the guests who at the time, and um, everybody thought, 1:19:19.240 --> 1:19:22.679 Good Feeling to Know is the record, And we made 1:19:22.720 --> 1:19:24.640 the record. And here we are, man, we're back in 1:19:24.680 --> 1:19:27.080 New York playing every s U N why there is 1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:29.080 back there, you know. And on the radio, you know, 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:30.639 we're on the way to the gig and I hear 1:19:30.640 --> 1:19:33.160 what We're traveling at a road trying to listen to 1:19:33.240 --> 1:19:37.160 the load, and it's like, ah, my heart just sunk again, 1:19:37.200 --> 1:19:40.120 you know, because Good Feeling to Know came out around 1:19:40.200 --> 1:19:42.280 the same time, and it was like, oh my gosh, 1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:46.120 really and there was another dud. So how did you 1:19:46.240 --> 1:19:49.519 end up leaving Poco? Had you already gotten the offer 1:19:49.600 --> 1:19:53.160 to join Southern Hillman or had you decided to quit? 1:19:53.479 --> 1:19:55.480 How did that all go down? Well? I was frustrated, 1:19:55.520 --> 1:19:58.519 There's no doubt about it. And so at one point 1:19:58.520 --> 1:20:00.680 in time, you know, I got a to David and 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:03.800 and and I, you know, we were we had recorded 1:20:03.880 --> 1:20:05.760 a Good Feeling to Know and the whole album. We're 1:20:05.800 --> 1:20:08.400 probably doing some work. But all this time it was 1:20:08.439 --> 1:20:10.960 going through my mind. You know, it's it's never gonna happen. 1:20:10.960 --> 1:20:13.439 For Poco, It's never gonna happen. And so I called 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:16.240 David and I had that conversation with him and said, well, listen, 1:20:16.600 --> 1:20:18.760 you know, Chris Hillman is looking for something to do. 1:20:18.880 --> 1:20:21.360 J D. South is looking for something to do. I mean, 1:20:21.400 --> 1:20:24.000 he's writing all these songs for the for the Eagles 1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:26.120 and all, and he you know, why why don't we 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:30.320 just put together another Crosby Stills in Nash And I thought, really, 1:20:30.840 --> 1:20:32.920 that's all there is to it. You know, I've been 1:20:32.920 --> 1:20:35.120 at this for six seven years and I can't get 1:20:35.120 --> 1:20:37.160 a I can't get and all I have to do 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:40.080 is join up and we'll put together another Crosby Skills 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:42.679 in Nation. You know, Bob all the all the time 1:20:42.760 --> 1:20:44.800 in the background. I think there's an awful lot of 1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:47.960 business that's going on, you know that. You know, I'm 1:20:48.000 --> 1:20:50.479 just doing music. I'm not involved in that, and I 1:20:50.520 --> 1:20:52.960 think that was a part of it. But so, you know, 1:20:53.120 --> 1:20:55.680 David convinced me that if I got together with the 1:20:56.360 --> 1:20:59.479 UM with J D and and Chris, you know, that 1:20:59.520 --> 1:21:01.439 we would we would start having to hit records and 1:21:01.439 --> 1:21:04.000 have the success that they had, and so, you know, 1:21:04.280 --> 1:21:08.880 I stuck around long enough for Crazy Eyes and UM 1:21:09.120 --> 1:21:12.519 and that album. And then you know, David actually came 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:16.000 down and called the guys off into the back room 1:21:16.040 --> 1:21:19.080 and he told him I was leaving. I tell him. 1:21:19.720 --> 1:21:21.720 I didn't even tell him I was leaving. Man, it 1:21:21.800 --> 1:21:23.760 was I think it was a sore spot for a 1:21:23.800 --> 1:21:27.439 long long time, you know, but uh um, you know. 1:21:27.520 --> 1:21:30.519 And and so then joined up and with Chris and 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:32.840 j D and we started working out. But you know, 1:21:32.880 --> 1:21:36.920 there was never the family feeling for like I did 1:21:36.960 --> 1:21:39.400 with Poke. There there was even with all the stuff 1:21:39.439 --> 1:21:42.120 that went on with Poco, there was a family feeling. 1:21:42.400 --> 1:21:45.040 I can't explain it, you know, it was it was 1:21:45.120 --> 1:21:47.519 really more of a family with with with Chris and 1:21:47.600 --> 1:21:49.639 j D, who I loved this day. I mean, Chris 1:21:49.680 --> 1:21:52.120 and I worked together. J D came by the studio 1:21:52.160 --> 1:21:53.880 when I did in the country, and it was like, 1:21:54.240 --> 1:21:57.880 oh my gosh, man, it was so good to see him. 1:21:57.960 --> 1:22:00.479 It was I mean, he was a ferent guy. I 1:22:00.479 --> 1:22:02.240 don't know what it was, but he was just a 1:22:02.280 --> 1:22:06.320 different guy. Man. And not that j D was difficult, 1:22:06.400 --> 1:22:08.479 but he was a young he was a young guy 1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:11.160 on his way man when we were putting this thing together. 1:22:11.200 --> 1:22:14.040 But he he had just he had just changed, you know, 1:22:14.080 --> 1:22:15.880 a couple of years ago, and we did this record. 1:22:15.960 --> 1:22:26.799 It was so good to see him. It was just wonderful. Anyway. Okay, 1:22:26.800 --> 1:22:31.679 so Southern Helman Furay is not organic. Geffen tells Poco 1:22:31.800 --> 1:22:34.679 you're leaving. How does he introduce you to the other 1:22:34.680 --> 1:22:38.160 guys and not even start? Well, I knew Chris and 1:22:38.160 --> 1:22:42.559 and I knew Actually I can't say I knew j D. 1:22:42.760 --> 1:22:46.559 But I knew of j D with Glenn because of 1:22:46.640 --> 1:22:49.080 Long Branch Penny was when Glenn used to come over 1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:51.640 to my house and somebody told me that j that 1:22:51.720 --> 1:22:54.519 j D came over to when I was rehearsing Poco 1:22:54.880 --> 1:22:59.080 at hundred Laurel Canyon Boulevard, you know, and and uh 1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:04.000 and but uh so I think I I think David. 1:23:04.439 --> 1:23:08.880 David had the he had the he knew us all, 1:23:09.000 --> 1:23:11.000 so he brought us all together. I I don't know. 1:23:11.040 --> 1:23:14.080 I mean, I knew Chris and uh and all, but 1:23:14.120 --> 1:23:16.280 I don't I can't say that I knew j D 1:23:16.400 --> 1:23:18.960 at the time. So it was David. Okay, so you're 1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:21.960 sit in a room and what do you say, Hi, guys, 1:23:22.080 --> 1:23:27.080 we're gonna be another crossby Steals and I don't I 1:23:27.120 --> 1:23:29.280 don't remember. All I know is that at that point 1:23:29.320 --> 1:23:31.160 in time, we knew we were going to be a band, 1:23:31.160 --> 1:23:33.080 and we needed to start to find a band, get 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:36.920 some songs together. I think we probably started playing, you know, 1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:42.120 different songs. Um. I had a song called Believe Me 1:23:42.200 --> 1:23:46.320 and a song called for falling in Love and uh 1:23:46.439 --> 1:23:49.320 fly to the Dove I think on on that particular record, 1:23:49.400 --> 1:23:51.800 and and I can't remember all the other songs the 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:54.639 other guys on the record, but you know, we started 1:23:54.680 --> 1:23:57.479 putting them together. We started putting a band together. Chris 1:23:57.520 --> 1:24:02.000 brought in uh j D. Chris brought in UH Paul 1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:06.160 Harris on keyboard. And actually when he brought in Al Perkins, 1:24:06.240 --> 1:24:08.679 I said, no, I don't want this guy. I don't 1:24:08.720 --> 1:24:12.960 want Al because you know why because Al Al had 1:24:13.000 --> 1:24:16.400 a fish sticker on his guitar that said Jesus Lord. 1:24:17.000 --> 1:24:19.680 And I said, huh, that guy is gonna stop us 1:24:19.720 --> 1:24:22.640 from becoming rock and roll stars. I Al could have 1:24:22.680 --> 1:24:26.120 been anything. He could have been a womanizer, a drunk, 1:24:26.200 --> 1:24:28.040 a drug addict, he could have been a but he 1:24:28.080 --> 1:24:30.240 was a Christian, and I didn't want him in my band, 1:24:30.600 --> 1:24:33.240 but Chris went out and he joined the band, and 1:24:33.280 --> 1:24:35.920 then we got Jimmy Gordon. And I don't know how 1:24:36.040 --> 1:24:38.840 we got Jimmy Gordon, but jim I tell you, I 1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:43.479 never met a guy that was I mean he okay, 1:24:43.520 --> 1:24:46.880 everybody know he was Jack on Hide. I mean when 1:24:46.880 --> 1:24:49.920 when when Jimmy was straight man, he was like just 1:24:50.040 --> 1:24:53.160 the sweetest, loving, big teddy bear that you would ever 1:24:53.240 --> 1:24:56.400 want to meet. And when he was not, he was not, 1:24:56.640 --> 1:24:58.880 he was like just it was Jack on Hide and 1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:02.320 I just my heart goes out. My heart goes out 1:25:02.360 --> 1:25:06.080 for him today because it's not you know, obviously not good, 1:25:06.120 --> 1:25:10.360 but boy to play with him and uh to have him, 1:25:10.680 --> 1:25:13.080 uh you know, I mean it was. It was one 1:25:13.080 --> 1:25:16.400 of one of the best rock and roll drummers ever 1:25:17.040 --> 1:25:19.160 I can remember. I mean, he had three sets of 1:25:19.280 --> 1:25:22.160 drums going around town when he was working with us, 1:25:22.400 --> 1:25:26.000 putting our our songs together. And we would go to 1:25:26.000 --> 1:25:29.800 town sometimes playing and we would go out after after 1:25:31.040 --> 1:25:33.920 after a show to a little funky, you know, place 1:25:34.000 --> 1:25:36.840 to eat or something. Somebody playing the jukebox and there 1:25:36.880 --> 1:25:38.760 was a song Jim played on you know, I mean 1:25:38.760 --> 1:25:41.080 it was he It was just like he was. He 1:25:41.160 --> 1:25:43.320 was on everything you heard at the time. Man, what 1:25:43.400 --> 1:25:46.000 a drummer, what a what a rock and roll drummer, 1:25:46.000 --> 1:25:48.800 And what a musician to playing the end of of 1:25:48.920 --> 1:25:51.960 such things as Layla on the piano. I mean, what 1:25:52.080 --> 1:25:55.680 a guy, man. But what a tragic story, Bob, what 1:25:55.760 --> 1:25:59.360 a tragic story. It most certainly is. Was this an 1:25:59.400 --> 1:26:02.360 album recorded as a group or was it more like 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:06.680 the songs were recorded individually and then assembled at the end. No, 1:26:06.960 --> 1:26:10.439 we recorded as a group, and Richie Podler was definitely 1:26:10.479 --> 1:26:12.479 the right guy at the right time. Man. He and 1:26:12.520 --> 1:26:16.440 Bill Cooper, man, they were terrific and I think everybody 1:26:16.520 --> 1:26:19.360 loved working with. In fact, is Richie who was an 1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:26.960 accomplished um um not a Flamenco but yeah, maybe Flamenco guitar. 1:26:27.040 --> 1:26:29.960 You was a guitar player, a really accomplished guitar player. 1:26:30.280 --> 1:26:33.400 We could not come up for an intro to Falling 1:26:33.479 --> 1:26:37.080 in Love, and he brought a you know, the little 1:26:37.080 --> 1:26:39.439 talk back and his hey, guys canact him out there 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:41.479 and just give you a guy, let me try something 1:26:41.479 --> 1:26:43.000 to see if you like it or not. But it 1:26:43.080 --> 1:26:45.120 was a whole band effort that we were doing. But 1:26:45.200 --> 1:26:49.680 Richie sat out there there, I turn air turned there 1:26:49.800 --> 1:26:51.640 and there it was. Man, we had the intro to 1:26:51.680 --> 1:26:55.360 the song. Man, Okay, was it your decision to have Richie? 1:26:55.520 --> 1:26:58.439 I definitely think it was because I wanted Richie to 1:26:58.720 --> 1:27:02.479 produce Poco well years earlier, and I knew that he was. 1:27:03.080 --> 1:27:06.240 He knew how to make hit records. Man, nobody made, 1:27:06.400 --> 1:27:08.679 I mean, nobody made records like he and Bill made. 1:27:08.720 --> 1:27:11.880 I mean they would take at that time at the 1:27:11.960 --> 1:27:14.040 board and you you could have a word that had 1:27:14.200 --> 1:27:16.680 three syllables in the word, and they would take it 1:27:16.720 --> 1:27:19.519 from three different tracks, I mean, and put a word 1:27:19.560 --> 1:27:21.760 together and you wouldn't even know it when you listen back. 1:27:22.400 --> 1:27:25.200 They were great. I loved him. I bought that album. 1:27:25.479 --> 1:27:30.280 I love that album, played it incessantly. The album went gold. 1:27:30.520 --> 1:27:32.479 So what was going on on the other side of 1:27:32.479 --> 1:27:36.080 the fence. I was having issues at that time. My 1:27:36.160 --> 1:27:38.439 wife was deciding. That was at the time that she 1:27:38.600 --> 1:27:43.680 was deciding we're done. So I was that's you know, 1:27:43.760 --> 1:27:45.679 everybody thinks that Chris and j D and I didn't 1:27:45.680 --> 1:27:48.760 get along. You know, it wasn't at all. It was 1:27:48.840 --> 1:27:51.400 I was having personal issues that I had to deal 1:27:51.439 --> 1:27:53.479 with in my own life that had nothing to do 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:56.240 with Chris or j D. You know, that was when 1:27:56.360 --> 1:28:00.960 family stuff started to really happen in my life. Okay, 1:28:01.000 --> 1:28:04.320 the second album, it's almost like it didn't even come out. 1:28:04.920 --> 1:28:07.680 You said earlier you were kind of checked out. What 1:28:07.840 --> 1:28:10.559 can you tell us if anything about the second album? Well, 1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:13.200 you know, not a whole lot. It was recorded like 1:28:13.320 --> 1:28:17.240 three miles from my home and I wasn't even able 1:28:17.280 --> 1:28:20.439 to live there. My wife and I were separated. Um, 1:28:20.880 --> 1:28:25.439 we had our band up there. I'm trying to think 1:28:25.479 --> 1:28:27.960 who was drumming for us at the time, because Paul 1:28:28.080 --> 1:28:30.680 was up there hours up there. It says, you know, 1:28:30.720 --> 1:28:32.880 I just looked it up Ron Grinnelle. Well, I'm not 1:28:32.920 --> 1:28:36.639 familiar with Ron. You're now thank you boy. You're quick man, 1:28:36.760 --> 1:28:40.160 you got that damn um. But you know, for for me, 1:28:40.439 --> 1:28:43.920 I was really distant. Man, I just don't. I don't 1:28:44.040 --> 1:28:47.479 remember a lot about that record. I even felt like 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:51.920 the the two songs that I offered were not really 1:28:52.040 --> 1:28:57.880 completed songs. Um. It was a very very very dark 1:28:58.040 --> 1:29:01.800 time in my life, man. I mean my I you know, 1:29:01.840 --> 1:29:04.600 it was just a dark time. I was like devastated 1:29:04.640 --> 1:29:06.800 that you know, Nancy and I were not you know 1:29:06.960 --> 1:29:08.880 C and I I and we were going to break 1:29:08.960 --> 1:29:12.200 up and head for divorce and it was it was 1:29:12.439 --> 1:29:14.680 it was hard, man, it was really hard. So how 1:29:14.680 --> 1:29:18.040 did Southern Hill in Fury ultimately literally died? Well, I 1:29:18.040 --> 1:29:20.040 think it was at the end of that record. You know, 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:24.080 I didn't go on tour, and uh, basically it was over. 1:29:24.160 --> 1:29:26.040 I think, you know, I just told him I can't 1:29:26.080 --> 1:29:29.000 do it. And that's when, you know, I mean, I 1:29:29.040 --> 1:29:32.120 put the focus on family and all of it, trying 1:29:32.120 --> 1:29:34.880 to get my wife back together, and you know, we 1:29:34.880 --> 1:29:38.160 we were separated. I you know, again, it was at 1:29:38.200 --> 1:29:43.280 that time. I remember um uh you know, being uh 1:29:44.280 --> 1:29:46.639 lost in l A at the time, you know, living 1:29:46.680 --> 1:29:50.360 with uh, living with people down in Coasta, Mesa, John 1:29:50.400 --> 1:29:55.160 Mayler and Tom Stipe and and uh and up with 1:29:55.200 --> 1:29:57.960 Al Perkins. It was during that whole time, that whole 1:29:58.000 --> 1:30:01.240 transition was just really taken taking part. And I had 1:30:01.280 --> 1:30:03.960 no interest in I had no interest in a band 1:30:04.120 --> 1:30:07.720 at all. Okay, how did you meet your wife at 1:30:07.720 --> 1:30:10.640 the whiskey to go go? We're in your tenure? What 1:30:10.680 --> 1:30:12.639 were you doing when you were at the whiskey? Well, 1:30:12.680 --> 1:30:15.360 we were playing no, I mean, was it Buffalo Springfield? 1:30:15.360 --> 1:30:18.120 What was it. No, it was Buffalo Springfield and a 1:30:18.160 --> 1:30:23.200 friend of um uh, well, her boyfriend. Uh he was 1:30:23.320 --> 1:30:27.559 actually in a band I think called Leaves the Leaves. 1:30:28.520 --> 1:30:32.080 His name was Bill Reinhardt, and he said, you gotta 1:30:32.120 --> 1:30:34.240 hear this band at the Whiskey. They're a great band. 1:30:35.080 --> 1:30:37.920 And so she came down. Listen if you know anything 1:30:37.960 --> 1:30:41.640 about my wife today. Even then, I looked back on 1:30:41.680 --> 1:30:43.680 it and I think, oh my gosh, man, this is 1:30:43.760 --> 1:30:46.400 so the Whiskey A go go is so. I mean, 1:30:46.439 --> 1:30:49.280 that scene was so out of character for Nancy. How 1:30:49.320 --> 1:30:52.640 she ever met Bill, I I don't even know. But anyway, 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:55.559 she would stand right at the foot of the stage 1:30:56.080 --> 1:30:59.479 and I can remember singing sit down and I think 1:31:00.160 --> 1:31:03.639 love you, you know to her, you know. And another 1:31:03.800 --> 1:31:07.360 friend of mine and who was actually Val Gray's pardner today. 1:31:07.479 --> 1:31:13.040 His name's Michael Miller. Um uh. Michael was was a 1:31:13.040 --> 1:31:15.479 friend of mine and a friend of the groups, and 1:31:15.560 --> 1:31:18.920 he was really instrumental in helping you know, me get 1:31:18.960 --> 1:31:23.479 to know or introduced it, introduced me to Nancy. And uh, 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:26.479 I remember when I finally got it together. You know 1:31:26.640 --> 1:31:29.599 that that I'm that I'll see you tomorrow night, you know, 1:31:29.840 --> 1:31:32.640 she said, no, I'm on my way to Hawaii with 1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:35.840 my friend and was like, oh, no, you know. But 1:31:36.040 --> 1:31:38.000 when she got over there and she she found out 1:31:38.040 --> 1:31:40.840 you know that, um, because Dickie was actually dating the 1:31:40.920 --> 1:31:44.360 friend that she went to uh to Hawaii with. And 1:31:44.400 --> 1:31:46.760 when when she found out that I actually wanted to 1:31:46.800 --> 1:31:49.720 start dating her, she actually left and came back, um, 1:31:50.320 --> 1:31:54.680 back to California and uh and we started dating. How 1:31:54.680 --> 1:31:56.960 many times did you come to the whiskey? I don't know, 1:31:57.000 --> 1:31:59.800 it's more than once. It wasn't a one time deal. No, 1:32:00.040 --> 1:32:02.200 you would come and and then she she would come 1:32:02.200 --> 1:32:04.280 back because I would remember she had a friend and 1:32:04.560 --> 1:32:07.880 her name was Nancy too, and they both stood right 1:32:07.920 --> 1:32:10.360 at the front of the of the stage, you know, 1:32:10.400 --> 1:32:13.000 and it's like I wore glasses, you know, and I 1:32:13.080 --> 1:32:15.400 have my glasses on. I look around which one, you know, 1:32:15.400 --> 1:32:17.559 and I decided, you know, I like this one better. 1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:20.120 And I was right. So how did you get rid 1:32:20.160 --> 1:32:22.360 of the old boyfriend? They broke up. I don't know 1:32:22.400 --> 1:32:24.360 how they broke up, but they broke up. And so 1:32:24.520 --> 1:32:27.879 once you started dating, it was pretty much clear sailing 1:32:27.960 --> 1:32:31.439 onto marriage from there. Well, you know that there was 1:32:31.840 --> 1:32:35.479 there was moments, I know, Buffalo Springfield was working at 1:32:35.479 --> 1:32:38.639 the time, and um, you know, we were actually doing 1:32:38.720 --> 1:32:41.840 some some of those gigs where there's three or four 1:32:41.920 --> 1:32:44.280 bands on a on a on a show, and The 1:32:44.320 --> 1:32:47.000 Turtles was on one show that we did at Redondo Beach, 1:32:47.040 --> 1:32:49.839 and I had I didn't have a place to stay anymore. 1:32:50.280 --> 1:32:52.840 And I remember Mark Vollman, you know, he said, hey, 1:32:52.840 --> 1:32:55.360 come on man, Stad was right around Happy Together time. 1:32:55.400 --> 1:32:57.479 He said, come on my house. Man, no problem, man, 1:32:57.520 --> 1:32:59.800 you can got a room. But done a done this 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:02.640 and the other, and so did Dad and Nancy and 1:33:02.680 --> 1:33:05.439 I actually stayed up there for a while and and 1:33:05.479 --> 1:33:07.360 I thought, man, I had lost her at one point 1:33:07.400 --> 1:33:11.479 in time because she and her she had a roommate 1:33:11.840 --> 1:33:14.160 that they lived right around the corner at a little 1:33:14.200 --> 1:33:18.960 school right on Lookout. And I remember they lived in 1:33:19.000 --> 1:33:22.920 a little apartment. Man, I hope I'm not wandering too much. Man, 1:33:23.360 --> 1:33:25.760 know this is great, Keep going, keep going. Okay, Well, 1:33:26.160 --> 1:33:30.080 they had a little apartment, and I know that her roommate, 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:33.559 they both had. Nancy had a red Volkswagen and her 1:33:33.800 --> 1:33:37.320 and her her her roommate had a green Volkswagen. And 1:33:37.400 --> 1:33:39.680 I decided, you know, I'm gonna put some flowers on 1:33:39.760 --> 1:33:43.320 my on my girl's car, you know. And little did 1:33:43.360 --> 1:33:47.320 I know that her roommate had literally broken up with 1:33:47.360 --> 1:33:50.479 her boyfriend at the time. So I sneak over early 1:33:50.520 --> 1:33:53.599 in the morning, and I'm color blind or basically color weak, 1:33:54.080 --> 1:33:57.960 and so guess what I put the I put the 1:33:58.000 --> 1:34:00.799 flowers on the wrong color car. Man, and I found 1:34:00.840 --> 1:34:03.280 him laying in the in the in the in the 1:34:03.400 --> 1:34:06.200 road man run over and I thought, oh, no, man, 1:34:06.280 --> 1:34:09.519 I have lost my I've lost my opportunity with my girl, 1:34:09.600 --> 1:34:12.320 you know. And so that was a nightmare. I don't know, man, 1:34:12.400 --> 1:34:15.400 it was crazy. But anyway, we got back together, Nancy 1:34:15.439 --> 1:34:19.240 and I we started we started dating for real, and 1:34:19.360 --> 1:34:22.120 I think we only knew each other maybe, I don't know, 1:34:22.240 --> 1:34:25.280 six months before we actually said I do. And we 1:34:25.360 --> 1:34:29.519 said I do and and um, it was really close 1:34:29.600 --> 1:34:32.360 to a night we were doing some television show I 1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:35.800 can't remember. I don't think it was Smothers Brothers, but 1:34:35.840 --> 1:34:37.559 it was. It was one of the shows that Buffalo 1:34:37.560 --> 1:34:42.120 Springfield did. I can't remember which one, but m yeah, 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:44.240 I mean, we we got married and the next night, man, 1:34:44.280 --> 1:34:46.439 I do a television show and it was like, I mean, 1:34:46.479 --> 1:34:49.200 it was like NonStop from there, you know. And what 1:34:49.280 --> 1:34:51.880 was Nancy doing for work when you met her? She 1:34:51.920 --> 1:34:54.679 worked a little club on not a club, a little 1:34:54.720 --> 1:34:59.080 address shop on La Sienega Lasi Angego Boulevard called a 1:34:59.080 --> 1:35:02.080 hole in the wall. And she was she was working 1:35:02.120 --> 1:35:05.320 at that, at that club down that, that little dress 1:35:05.360 --> 1:35:07.160 shop down there. And how did you end up living 1:35:07.200 --> 1:35:12.080 in Colorado? Well, it was during the Poco days, and 1:35:13.760 --> 1:35:16.880 it was that time, and think things were nuts. She 1:35:16.960 --> 1:35:20.880 read something in the paper one time that a child 1:35:21.000 --> 1:35:24.240 born in l A at the time would develop emphysema 1:35:24.479 --> 1:35:27.400 by the time she was two years old, you know. 1:35:27.920 --> 1:35:31.280 And so we decided that it was time to make 1:35:31.560 --> 1:35:36.560 the move. And Rusty and and and George were from Colorado. 1:35:37.760 --> 1:35:41.320 But interestingly enough, we also were looking at and don't 1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:44.160 ask me how this happened, we were looking at San Francisco. 1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:47.200 That was like going from the from the fire, from 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:50.080 the frying pan into the fire. I can remember going 1:35:50.160 --> 1:35:52.880 up and telling George, now, George, we're gonna move to Colorado. 1:35:53.040 --> 1:35:55.360 He's on a ladder painting, and I think he dropped 1:35:55.400 --> 1:35:57.920 his paint brush. At the time, he had already rented 1:35:57.920 --> 1:36:00.960 a place up there, you know. But so that's how 1:36:01.000 --> 1:36:04.759 we we ended up in Colorado though we uh just decided, 1:36:04.840 --> 1:36:07.080 you know, we're gonna make the move to Colorado. Nancy 1:36:07.080 --> 1:36:08.880 and I came back here and found a place. You know, 1:36:09.000 --> 1:36:11.400 Rusty was able to find a place, Paul and Timothy 1:36:11.400 --> 1:36:14.080 found a place, and George finally found a place. But 1:36:14.800 --> 1:36:17.639 it was because of it was because of that little 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:21.479 article that Nancy had read that said a child would 1:36:21.479 --> 1:36:23.720 develop emphysema. You know by the time they were like 1:36:23.800 --> 1:36:26.559 two years old, had they had. We stayed in l 1:36:26.600 --> 1:36:28.599 A with all the smog and all that at the time, 1:36:28.640 --> 1:36:30.519 and so we we decided that we're out of here, 1:36:30.560 --> 1:36:32.840 we're moving. We're gonna find another place to go, and 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:35.840 ended up in Uh, we ended up in Colorado, and 1:36:35.840 --> 1:36:38.759 I'm the only guy that lasted Okay, and you're still 1:36:38.800 --> 1:36:42.040 alive unlike some of them. Man. Oh yeah, so maybe 1:36:42.040 --> 1:36:46.000 that article was right. But in any event, you have 1:36:46.200 --> 1:36:49.880 this marriage crisis, you sort of remove yourself from the 1:36:49.960 --> 1:36:53.880 everyday music business. You have this gold record, the first 1:36:53.880 --> 1:36:58.240 Southern Hillman Furay band. But then Timothy B. Schmidt goes 1:36:58.280 --> 1:37:01.479 to the Eagles and Poco Chain just labels and starts 1:37:01.479 --> 1:37:06.400 having hits. But at that time, I was so wrapped 1:37:06.479 --> 1:37:08.200 up in what I was doing. I mean, not that 1:37:08.320 --> 1:37:10.160 you know, Timothy going to the Eagles Man that was 1:37:10.200 --> 1:37:12.120 that was a that was a fine thing, you know, 1:37:12.160 --> 1:37:15.040 But Poco having hits, and and you know, Rusty never 1:37:15.120 --> 1:37:17.639 failed to mention, you know, we didn't have any hits 1:37:17.640 --> 1:37:19.280 as long as Ritchie was in the band. As as 1:37:19.280 --> 1:37:21.040 he left the band, we start having hits, you know, 1:37:21.560 --> 1:37:23.720 and so he never he never failed to rub it in. 1:37:23.800 --> 1:37:29.280 But uh, I I really believe, Bob, in my heart 1:37:29.320 --> 1:37:32.599 of hearts, we had hits, you know, I really do. 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:34.479 I believe good feeling, you know, it should have been 1:37:34.479 --> 1:37:36.960 a should have been a hit. I believe that Paul 1:37:37.000 --> 1:37:39.280 Cotton had some songs, you know that could have been hits. 1:37:39.320 --> 1:37:41.519 I believe that a song called Just for Me and 1:37:41.600 --> 1:37:45.599 You on our second uh uh well, uh the Steve 1:37:45.680 --> 1:37:48.640 Cropper record, I believe that that was a hit, you know, 1:37:48.720 --> 1:37:51.040 Besid mean, I believe we had hits. I just don't 1:37:51.080 --> 1:37:54.200 think they ever never materialized. But that's the way it 1:37:54.280 --> 1:37:57.800 happens in the business. Looking back from this great distance, 1:37:58.479 --> 1:38:04.040 any regrets, any feeling like you know, you got screwed, 1:38:04.760 --> 1:38:09.360 any issues of legacy, what's your perspective here, almost sixty 1:38:09.439 --> 1:38:12.080 years off. I wouldn't change the thing. I wouldn't change 1:38:12.080 --> 1:38:13.800 the thing. I've got a I've got a wife of 1:38:13.840 --> 1:38:16.400 fifty five years, i got four daughters, I got three 1:38:16.439 --> 1:38:19.880 great son in laws, I got thirteen grandkids. What what more? 1:38:20.200 --> 1:38:23.880 I mean? And I'm still making music at this age. Man, 1:38:23.960 --> 1:38:26.599 I can't even believe it. You know, the Lord has 1:38:26.640 --> 1:38:29.519 allow me to make music. And I've got great friends, 1:38:30.000 --> 1:38:33.160 you know, working with me and and I. The record 1:38:33.240 --> 1:38:37.320 that I made with Val is just I mean, I 1:38:37.400 --> 1:38:39.439 love it, man, I was. I can't even believe I 1:38:39.439 --> 1:38:41.800 can still see myself standing the only thing I just 1:38:41.920 --> 1:38:43.760 I don't like it. I was just taking three years 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:47.000 to get it out because of this COVID COVID deal, 1:38:47.080 --> 1:38:49.200 you know, and and but I can still my see 1:38:49.240 --> 1:38:53.160 myself standing in that in that vocal booth, looking over 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:56.160 seeing Victor and Drizzio and looking over here and seeing 1:38:56.200 --> 1:38:59.120 Glenn Wharf, and seeing Dan Doug Moore, my good friend, 1:38:59.160 --> 1:39:02.759 and Chris losing your and uh and then meeting Tom 1:39:02.800 --> 1:39:08.840 Bucavic and Steve um um oh or give me Steve's name, man, 1:39:08.880 --> 1:39:13.719 I don't know, like uh oh, I can't remember the keyboard. Oh, 1:39:13.920 --> 1:39:15.960 this is terrible. I can't remember. I gotta I gotta 1:39:16.000 --> 1:39:19.000 have Steve's name. Can you find? Can you get the album? Find? 1:39:19.040 --> 1:39:23.400 I gotta find because we were cutting. Um uh is 1:39:23.400 --> 1:39:26.559 it open? Can I can you open it? I'm sorry, Dan, um, 1:39:26.720 --> 1:39:28.600 we we were cutting. I hope you dance and he 1:39:28.680 --> 1:39:30.360 came back and you know I played on the original 1:39:30.400 --> 1:39:34.000 of that. I love it. Man, Oh man, I know 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:37.559 Steve's name. I go, oh man, I'm terrible. I'm getting old, 1:39:37.920 --> 1:39:39.960 but I can just see it, you know, man, going 1:39:40.080 --> 1:39:42.599 down that wreck. This record is I don't even know. 1:39:43.000 --> 1:39:45.360 The record business has changed so much. I don't know 1:39:45.400 --> 1:39:48.080 what it means. But the record to me is a 1:39:48.200 --> 1:39:53.400 most satisfying record. Um. I mean it's it's really great 1:39:53.560 --> 1:39:58.360 to find Steve's name, Steve Nathan, Steve Nathan. Yeah. Now, 1:39:58.720 --> 1:40:03.400 the business is riddle with musicians who have no money 1:40:03.439 --> 1:40:06.280 and broke and terrible stories. You have a good story, 1:40:06.360 --> 1:40:08.720 but how you're doing financially and do you ever get 1:40:08.760 --> 1:40:12.720 any royalties? What's going on there? You know? Somehow I'll 1:40:12.720 --> 1:40:15.040 know that they keep coming in and I'm thankful when 1:40:15.080 --> 1:40:17.759 they do. Not great. I never had a hit record, 1:40:18.080 --> 1:40:19.880 had I had to hit record, you know it'd be 1:40:19.960 --> 1:40:22.920 would be even bigger. But you know, a little piece 1:40:22.920 --> 1:40:25.280 of for what it's worth has helped me out along 1:40:25.280 --> 1:40:28.200 the way. And you know, Nancy and I were frugal, 1:40:28.720 --> 1:40:30.920 you know, we don't we don't overspend, but you know what, 1:40:30.960 --> 1:40:33.000 we're able to do what we want to do when 1:40:33.000 --> 1:40:35.280 we want to do it, and things been. It's it's 1:40:35.320 --> 1:40:38.120 been good, you know. I mean, I'm not a I 1:40:38.560 --> 1:40:42.240 don't have three houses and an airplane park someplace and 1:40:42.280 --> 1:40:43.960 this not in the other. But you know what I got, 1:40:44.040 --> 1:40:47.920 I got all I need. Man, that's fantastic. You've been fantastic, Richie. 1:40:48.080 --> 1:40:50.519 I could listen to tell these stories all day long. 1:40:50.840 --> 1:40:53.920 I think we got the general overview, so I think 1:40:53.960 --> 1:40:58.360 we're gonna draw close to it in this chap All right, man, excellent, 1:40:58.479 --> 1:41:01.599 that's a great storyteller. The personality not even know why 1:41:01.640 --> 1:41:05.439 you have such success. That's Richard Furay. Until next time. 1:41:05.840 --> 1:41:15.480 This is Bob left side,