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Speaker 1: From My Heart Radio. This is missing on nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: the story of one woman who vanished on the eve

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Speaker 1: of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: John Wallzac. This is the sound of the lobby of

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Speaker 1: two World Trade Center, the South Tower, captured on August

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Speaker 1: one by sound engineer Benchia Ben, a film and TV

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Speaker 1: veteran whose credits include The Wire, Fargo and The Big Lebowski,

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Speaker 1: made twenty recordings that day. They stand out as high

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Speaker 1: quality audio artifacts. None have ever been published until now.

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Speaker 1: Close your eyes, listen. You're in the lobby of the

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Speaker 1: World Trade Center. You're in an elevator. Only two weeks

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Speaker 1: before nine eleven. All right, m y y way. It

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Speaker 1: was the time when they have a tar event trying

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Speaker 1: to get thing. Only seventeen days later and again Darien

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Speaker 1: said that Will Trade said, yeah, you fellas have a

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Speaker 1: tree one here you set up to where the building?

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Speaker 1: Can you go to pay that because we have injured

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Okay, all right, thank you, very

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Speaker 1: sick Billy want lobby getting up in the lobby of

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Speaker 1: two lobby and Bill okay, okay, we have like the

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Speaker 1: every big in fact, we have vengeance. Go over and

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Speaker 1: building four uh, billy everyday air grating, body works. They're

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Speaker 1: having numerous people were broken light who was the blood?

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Speaker 1: They want to know where we would pretty game in

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Speaker 1: the buildings so they can bring everybody down two World

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Speaker 1: in the lobby, the lobby. Okay, okay, all right, friend.

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Speaker 1: This recording was made at AM. By that point, thousands

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Speaker 1: of victims have been evacuated away from the towers, out

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Speaker 1: of the danger zone. But there was a triage area

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Speaker 1: set up in the South Tower lobby for victims who

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Speaker 1: couldn't walk. What snayha, they're helping. It's possible, but unlikely anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking to find out. I'm a Ragius kid nurse.

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Speaker 1: I'm currently working right now and I wanted to help out.

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Speaker 1: I know they have a triage place set up at

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Speaker 1: West Chamber. Yes, is there anything else? Uh? You know,

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Speaker 1: any you know path I could take to get there

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Speaker 1: at the help? Um, what are they doing? And they

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Speaker 1: calling in nurses or what? I don't think they're not

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Speaker 1: calling in nurses and das in here, right and it's

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Speaker 1: realized I haven't Yeah, no, now they're not calling us.

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Speaker 1: Who the dators into the site? You needed to stay

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Speaker 1: at the hospitals through all hospitals or want a hospital. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they cure. You're working right now at Bassol. I'm working

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Speaker 1: in a in a hospital right now. I was going

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Speaker 1: to uh go there. Okay. Now they want over the

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Speaker 1: docks and right now they want all the dassors and

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Speaker 1: notions to stay at the Bassole. Okay, okay, right. First

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Speaker 1: responders wanted people out, not in, even if they were

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Speaker 1: well intentioned doctors or nurses. One more tape AM a

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Speaker 1: call from the south tower lobby the emergency two World

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Speaker 1: Trade Center. We have injured people in the lobby of

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Speaker 1: the building. They need medical attention. They're on the south

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Speaker 1: side of the building. However, they're not gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to come in that way. They have to figure away

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Speaker 1: into it because we've got the bree all over the

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Speaker 1: outside of the building. Okay, okay, uh that's two World

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Speaker 1: Trade Center, right, that's correct, Two World Trade Center, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: And they're on the south side of the lobby. Actually

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Speaker 1: have more than one occupant engine, but we have looks

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Speaker 1: like serious injuries. They got the guy sitting up on

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Speaker 1: a chair. I don't know how that happened, but Jerry

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Speaker 1: reported hold up the mn SO, hold on paper. That's wow. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean why we've got any and you in

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Speaker 1: the lobby. Yes, we all first floor Loop Street. It's

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Speaker 1: between Liberty Street and Church Street, the building and West Street. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's already a job, man, it's it's E. M.

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Speaker 1: S is not picking up. Okay, Well maybe you could

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Speaker 1: keep trying. I gave you my infrom and I kind

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Speaker 1: of gotta get gold. This was my job. Okay, Look,

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Speaker 1: we're sorry, Slarry, Bill, I S E. And what's the celephone?

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Speaker 1: Have you calling from? Seven? Okay? I supposed to be there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're welcome, bye, bye luck. Five minutes later, the tower collapsed.

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Speaker 1: Nine eleven may have been the most photographed event in history,

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Speaker 1: but nearly all footage was captured outside the towers. From inside,

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Speaker 1: we have nine one one calls, voicemail, dispatched tapes, oral histories,

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Speaker 1: and emails, but very few photos and videos. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to imagine now, but in two thousand one, no smartphones,

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Speaker 1: no social media. As it pertains to snay Ha. That's

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Speaker 1: critical because any image of her in the towers solves

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Speaker 1: this case. Surpri using Lee, there was no comprehensive list

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Speaker 1: of footage captured in the Towers on nine eleven, so

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Speaker 1: I made my own. In the end, I confirmed forty

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Speaker 1: five photos. Thirty three were taken by one man, John Labriola,

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Speaker 1: as he evacuated the North Tower, twelve were taken by

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Speaker 1: five other people, and two are unconfirmed. As for video,

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Speaker 1: we have dramatic footage from the North Tower captured by

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Speaker 1: French filmmaker Jewels not a plus one other short unconfirmed video.

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Speaker 1: So forty five confirmed photos, one confirmed video, to unconfirmed photos,

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Speaker 1: one unconfirmed video. That's it. The most complete account of

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Speaker 1: what it was like in the Towers on nine eleven

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Speaker 1: is a book called One and two Minutes by Jim

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Speaker 1: Dwyer and Kevin Flynn of the New York Times. It's

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Speaker 1: a remarkable work of narrative journalism. I read it twice.

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Speaker 1: Jim died last year. Kevin still works for the Times.

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Speaker 1: We focused on the floors that seem to have the

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Speaker 1: most substantial influence on the day, meaning the floors where

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Speaker 1: there are the planes that actually struck, and then the

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Speaker 1: floors above, and we split them up among the five reporters.

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Speaker 1: For example, I had the windows on the World, which

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Speaker 1: was the top of the of the North Tower, and

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Speaker 1: began to try to construct what had happened at Windows

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Speaker 1: on the World. I told you I located forty nine

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Speaker 1: photos and videos taken inside the towers during the attacks.

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Speaker 1: But there are two things I haven't told you. First,

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Speaker 1: at least one photo was taken out Windows on the

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Speaker 1: World on top of the North Tower, only fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: before flight eleven hit the tower. It shows three men

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Speaker 1: at the risk Waters Financial Technology conference. It was taken

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Speaker 1: by a Bloomberg photographer who left right before the planehead

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Speaker 1: I don't know the photographer's name. Did they take any

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Speaker 1: other photos that morning, I don't know neither, just Kevin Flynn.

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Speaker 1: I never had the name of the photographer. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: someone who took some pictures and then them developed. And

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Speaker 1: it may have been that Bloomberg just wanted to protect

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Speaker 1: the privacy of that person. Maybe they were upset about

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Speaker 1: having been there and escaped or whatever. But anyway, I

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Speaker 1: never got that name. Kevin and I also discussed snay

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Speaker 1: House case. The North Day footage is at least all

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Speaker 1: incompensing to the point where I think that she probably

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Speaker 1: would have reported in to the command desk had she arrived.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she sounds like she was a responsible person right,

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Speaker 1: And so I don't think she would just like have

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Speaker 1: freelance and gone up the stairs without talking to those people.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like she would have been captured on

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Speaker 1: camera in the North Tower. So I think that looking

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Speaker 1: for her in the South tower makes more sense because

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Speaker 1: there's no footage of the South tower. Basically Kevin saying

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Speaker 1: that if ran into the North Tower, she likely would

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Speaker 1: have gone to the lobby command center. Then day footage

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Speaker 1: gives us a good view of the North Tower lobby

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Speaker 1: and there's no sign of snay huh. So if she

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Speaker 1: in into the towers, it's likely she went to the

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Speaker 1: South tower. And there are zero photos and no video

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Speaker 1: taken in the South Tower lobby besides Labriola and the

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Speaker 1: nor Day Brothers. I don't think that there and there's

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Speaker 1: certainly some photographs from outside the building from taking from

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Speaker 1: the news photographers, but actually inside the building, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that there's much beyond that. Yeah, So I've been

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Speaker 1: able to document, well, the vast majority of what exists,

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Speaker 1: like you said, is the no Day Brothers and John

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Speaker 1: Labriola's photos. Past that, I've been able to document nine

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Speaker 1: other photographers and videographers, but all extremely limited many just

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Speaker 1: a single image from inside the building. From inside the building.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking at it right now, and there are

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Speaker 1: three there's a videographer and two photographers. I haven't been

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Speaker 1: able to confirm, but what I have one picture from three,

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Speaker 1: from one from the one, five from to from the

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Speaker 1: sixty one, and then the Were you aware that the

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Speaker 1: FBI recovered a disposable camera at ground zero that included

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Speaker 1: images taken on the upper level of one of the

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Speaker 1: towers and developed the images after nine eleven. No, this

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Speaker 1: is the second thing I haven't told you. It's fascinated

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Speaker 1: me for eighteen years. Shortly after nine eleven, the FBI

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Speaker 1: located a disposable camera at ground zero in the pocket

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Speaker 1: of a man who jumped or fell from one of

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Speaker 1: the towers. No one I interviewed, authors, experts, curators knew

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Speaker 1: about these photos. I first heard about them in two

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Speaker 1: thousand three when I read a Baltimore Sun article by

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Speaker 1: Laura Sullivan profiling the FBI's Explosives Unit. Three paragraphs immediately

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Speaker 1: captivated me. I cut them out and saved them all

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Speaker 1: these years. Quote. There is one other piece of evidence

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Speaker 1: of the events leading to the collapse of the towers,

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Speaker 1: that few outside the unit. No of unit members found

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Speaker 1: a disposable camera and the pocket of a man who

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Speaker 1: jumped from one of the tower. When they developed the

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Speaker 1: film months later, investigators found a chilling chronology of the

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Speaker 1: man's experience that morning. The photos show the man, who

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Speaker 1: appears to be a construction worker, standing at the window

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Speaker 1: as the other tower burns behind him. The photos, which

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Speaker 1: include pictures he took as well it's a few taken

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Speaker 1: by someone else, also capture other jumpers falling. The man

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Speaker 1: looks stricken, his face one of shock and disbelief. His

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Speaker 1: family is aware of the photos, investigators said, but it's

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Speaker 1: not asked to see them. The units investigators were initially

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Speaker 1: confused by the film because the last pictures on the

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Speaker 1: roll show the man laughing among friends at a birthday party.

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Speaker 1: They took the film to a photo expert in the unit,

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Speaker 1: who explained that disposable camera film is developed in reverse.

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Speaker 1: Laura is now an award winning investigative journalist for NPR.

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Speaker 1: She wrote that article at the dawn of social media.

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Speaker 1: It was quickly forgotten, but it's stuck with me for

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Speaker 1: more than a decade. I've tried to get the photos

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Speaker 1: from the FBI. I failed, And I know what you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: Why do you need these photos? If they're graphic and upsetting,

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Speaker 1: If the man's family doesn't want to see them, why

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Speaker 1: should you to me? There there's a pruder film of

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Speaker 1: nine eleven, the only photos captured high in the towers,

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Speaker 1: presumably above the point of impact during the attacks before

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Speaker 1: the towers fell. Their singular and unique a point of view,

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Speaker 1: unlike any other documenting a monumental moment in American history.

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Speaker 1: There's an ethical debate to be had about which, if any,

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Speaker 1: should be published, but that's for a future date because

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Speaker 1: so far the FBI has refused to release them. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it appears the FBI lost the photos, raising critical questions

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Speaker 1: about how the bureau catalog and handled nine eleven evidence.

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Speaker 1: Since I filed multiple Foyer requests trying to get the photos,

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Speaker 1: every time the same answer no. First, the FBI said

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Speaker 1: it couldn't find any responsive records. Then it said that

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Speaker 1: I didn't reasonably describe them. I appealed the latest denial.

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Speaker 1: The Department of Justice denied my appeal. The d o

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Speaker 1: J said my request would quote require the FBI to

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Speaker 1: conduct an unreasonably burdensome search. Your request is not reasonably

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Speaker 1: described because you did not characterize the record SAW it

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Speaker 1: in such a way that they could be located without

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Speaker 1: individually pulling and reviewing thousands of files. End quote. That's

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Speaker 1: a crop of shit. We're talking about extremely unique, one

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Speaker 1: of a kind photos eleven evidence, but the FBI can't

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Speaker 1: find them without individually pulling and reviewing thousands of files.

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Speaker 1: So two possibilities here. Either the FBI is stonewalling or

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Speaker 1: the FBI lost them. Yes, lost. If I ask you

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Speaker 1: to find your car keys and you can't locate them

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Speaker 1: without digging through a thousand boxes, what would you call that?

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Speaker 1: Last year, I got fed up, so I emailed FBI

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Speaker 1: Director Christopher Ray. His office bounced me to the Public

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Speaker 1: Affairs office, which bounced me back to the FBI's in

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Speaker 1: transigent FOIA office. Here's what I wrote. Quote. I'm seeking

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Speaker 1: images developed from a disposable camera recovered as part of

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Speaker 1: a massive investigation of immense public interest. The images were

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Speaker 1: already shown to a reporter. I described them in detail.

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Speaker 1: They are extremely unique, and yet the FBI's response is

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Speaker 1: that the records SAW are not detailed enough to find

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Speaker 1: their location. How is that possible unless I'm missing something,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to give the bureau a fair chance

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Speaker 1: to respond here. I interpret that as either stonewalling my

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Speaker 1: request or that the bureaus system for story nine eleven

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Speaker 1: evidence is so disorganized it can't locate these images, in

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Speaker 1: which case, past these specific photos, this becomes a bigger story.

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Speaker 1: The FBI responded, quote, good afternoon. The records are not

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Speaker 1: detailed enough to find their location. As such, it would

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Speaker 1: be unduly burdensome to pull and review thousands of files, respectfully,

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Speaker 1: Public Information Officer, The FBI has consistently been a nightmare

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Speaker 1: to work with, and not just in this case. It's

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Speaker 1: been sued multiple times over its FOIA practices. Regardless of

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Speaker 1: your politics, you should care about this because nobody benefits

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Speaker 1: when the nation's premier law enforcement agency decides more or

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Speaker 1: less that it doesn't give a shit about FOIA requests.

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Speaker 1: To learn more about the disposable camera photos, I wrote

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Speaker 1: to Donald sac Laban in two thousand three. He was

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Speaker 1: the agent in charge of the FBI's explosives unit. He's

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Speaker 1: the person who showed the photos to Laura Sullivan, the

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Sun reporter. Sac Laban is now in prison in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, he pleaded guilty to both child porn charges

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Speaker 1: and to leaking classified information. I mailed him a letter

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Speaker 1: in prison. He wrote back, quote, Mr Wallsac, I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's much I can add to your information about

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Speaker 1: those photos. As best I can recall, the film slash

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Speaker 1: camera was found at the w TC site and sent

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Speaker 1: to our lab for processing. I mentioned it in the

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Sun article, mostly because it was a unique item.

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Speaker 1: I do not recall the name of any person associated

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Speaker 1: with the camera. There were hundreds of thousands of photos

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Speaker 1: related to the nine eleven investigation. I imagine these images

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Speaker 1: are tucked away in some storage bin. Good luck with

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Speaker 1: your endeavors, sincerely, Donald suck Laban, I wrote again, pushing

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Speaker 1: for details. He responded, Dear Mr Wallzac, as you may know,

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Speaker 1: I'm currently serving a term of incarceration for disclosure of

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Speaker 1: national security information. While the items you seek may not

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Speaker 1: be classified, I still do not feel comfortable discussing them.

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Speaker 1: I the interview to the Baltimore Sun with the full

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Speaker 1: knowledge and authorization of the FBI. I no longer hold

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Speaker 1: that authority. Good luck with your endeavors, sincerely, Donald suck Lavin.

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Speaker 1: There was one final person to interview the only civilian

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Speaker 1: to ever see these photos. I'm Laura Sullivan. I'm a

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Speaker 1: correspondent with NPR. I started out as a print reporter

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Speaker 1: and one of my first real jobs in journalism was

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Speaker 1: as a two year intern at the Baltimore Sun, and

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Speaker 1: that turned into a real job at the Baltimore Sun,

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Speaker 1: which is where I was on nine eleven. I was

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Speaker 1: a reporter in Baltimore. So I was covering. This is

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Speaker 1: back in the heyday of newspapers, and we had all

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Speaker 1: kinds of resources, and there was actually a beat where

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Speaker 1: you covered the National Security Agency in the Naval Academy,

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Speaker 1: which were like our local agencies in that area of

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Speaker 1: our of the Baltimore Sun readers, and so that was

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Speaker 1: my beat, and I remember the morning sort of hearing

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Speaker 1: it on the radio. Actually, I mean as print reporters,

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Speaker 1: you know, we sort of started day late and ended

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Speaker 1: it late, and I remember jumping in my car and

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Speaker 1: sort of driving down to Annapolis, not really sure what

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Speaker 1: I was going to be covering at all. The next

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Speaker 1: day they sent me to Washington and I never left

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Speaker 1: after that, And so I started covering the Justice Department, Homeline,

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Speaker 1: Security Department, and all kinds of terrorism and the FBI.

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Speaker 1: And it was crazy. It was every single day for

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Speaker 1: for months and months and months. It just never ended.

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Speaker 1: And so you know that brings us to this this article.

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Speaker 1: So I email you out of the blue this year

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Speaker 1: and I say, I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: an article you wrote eighteen years ago. Did you kind

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Speaker 1: of just wonder like, what what is this? What is this?

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, what did I possibly right?

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Speaker 1: What did I do? Now? Been some who? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're just you're saying, oh god, it must have I

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Speaker 1: must have just done something crazy twenty years ago. So

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Speaker 1: on December one, two thousand three, you wrote this article

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Speaker 1: for The Sun headlined FBI team puts together pieces from

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Speaker 1: scenes of terror bombings. When I asked you about the article,

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Speaker 1: did you remember it immediately or did you have to

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Speaker 1: go dig around for it? I had a sudden flash

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Speaker 1: of being in the FBI's evidence area, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: I think there was some sort I did some sort

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Speaker 1: of story about the thing that came to my mind

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Speaker 1: when you said something about the camera was picturing Mohammed

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Speaker 1: addas suitcase. I don't know. I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: really remember this story at all. I'm not sure I

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Speaker 1: remember too much about it, but I had a flash

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Speaker 1: of Mohammed out as suitcase, and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: think there was some sort of story. And then I

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Speaker 1: went and looked for it. I couldn't find it. It

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Speaker 1: was like I didn't know what the search for. I

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Speaker 1: was like Laura Sullivan's son camera, Like it was like

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Speaker 1: there was no way to even find the story. So

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Speaker 1: then thankfully you sent it to me, So then it

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Speaker 1: and then it came sort of rushing back. I don't remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like you you just have little pieces.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've done thousands of stories, and I just

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Speaker 1: have little pieces of that. After I read the story,

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Speaker 1: I remember the room, I remember that suitcase. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why that left such an impression on me. I

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Speaker 1: think because it was like, you know, this it was

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Speaker 1: like brand new because I never made it onto the flight,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it just was so creepy. Here was

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Speaker 1: Mohammadada's suitcase. And then I remember him showing me the photos.

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Speaker 1: So walk me into that evidence bay. What was the

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Speaker 1: big cavernous warehouse? What? What do you remember of this?

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Speaker 1: The weirdest thing is I can't remember where I was

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Speaker 1: was I in Virginia. Was I in Maryland. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I didn't get on a plane for this story. They

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Speaker 1: would have never paid for that. So it was somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the vicinity of d C. And I do remember

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Speaker 1: it took a long time to get these sort of

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Speaker 1: this sort of access to these interviews. But this was

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Speaker 1: my be, you know, covering the FBI. And I was

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Speaker 1: always asking to do features, especially when you're sort of

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Speaker 1: at the sun. You gotta fight against the big dogs

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Speaker 1: at the Times and the Post and and they're right,

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Speaker 1: always trampling all over your So the more features you do,

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Speaker 1: the more people you get to know. And so I

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Speaker 1: was always asking for things like this, And I was

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Speaker 1: always like taking random tours of things. Whenever they had

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Speaker 1: a tour, I was like, I'll go, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: blood Drive, I'll go. This is the kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: I did a lot of. And I remember it was

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Speaker 1: a giant room. It was very clean, and it was

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Speaker 1: very gray, that's my memory of it. I remember walking downstairs.

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Speaker 1: It was just like concrete and metal and big and

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Speaker 1: gray and open. And uh, I barely remember the the

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Speaker 1: guy Satchel Ben at all. And he comes across like

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Speaker 1: a really great character in my story. Sort of tragic

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Speaker 1: the way that ended. But then he just went through

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Speaker 1: the stuff. There was just piles of stuff, like like

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Speaker 1: plastic tubs, like labeled plastic tubs of stuff that they had,

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Speaker 1: which I found riveting, just sort of like the little

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Speaker 1: details of the day. And then I remember him showing

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Speaker 1: me these photographs, which really struck me. The photographs themselves

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Speaker 1: weren't that these were not professional photos. These were just

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Speaker 1: sort of like they they weren't in an of them.

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Speaker 1: It was like a man in sort of a beige

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Speaker 1: outfit standing by a window. That's like my memory of

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Speaker 1: these photos. I remember the birthday party thing too, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like a dramatic photo. It was just sort

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Speaker 1: of the emotional pull of them that they were taken

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Speaker 1: in this moment of just tragedy. And so I just

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Speaker 1: I don't know, they just always they that they resonated

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Speaker 1: with me. It's interesting because so I've read this article

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Speaker 1: when I was fifteen. I was on a Christmas vacation

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Speaker 1: with my family and I saw it in the newspaper.

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Speaker 1: I'm so impressed you were reading the newspaper fifteen. Can

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Speaker 1: I just say, well, that's what I was gonna say

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Speaker 1: it dates me too, because I actually cut it out

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Speaker 1: of the paper. Um, I still have it somewhere. And

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Speaker 1: then all these years later I had to go figure

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Speaker 1: out why I had these three paragraphs like who wrote this?

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Speaker 1: Where did this come from? You know? But uh, and

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Speaker 1: that that was the light reading I was doing around

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Speaker 1: Christmas in two thousand three. I mean, yeah, do you

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Speaker 1: were in some kind of a dark place like terrible thing?

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Speaker 1: It's stuck with me, I mean it. You know, all

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Speaker 1: these years, I've saved that little piece of paper, so

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you more or less for

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Speaker 1: the last eighteen years. You know what I find so

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Speaker 1: frustrating and reading this article now is the sentence that

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Speaker 1: I wrote, apparently where I said his family is aware

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Speaker 1: of the photos but has not asked to see them.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what, Like, I want to go back and

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Speaker 1: inquire more about that. What do you mean they don't

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Speaker 1: want to see them? Are you sure you've showed them?

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Speaker 1: How you sure you've talked to them? Who was this family?

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Speaker 1: I just I'm frustrated with myself that I didn't follow

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Speaker 1: up with that a little bit more like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I just took his word for when he said, well, well,

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Speaker 1: we let the family know that we had these, but

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Speaker 1: they have not asked to see that. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why that. It's something about it doesn't

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Speaker 1: sit with me, right. You know, It's interesting all these

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Speaker 1: years I had to actually go back and find the articles,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't remember who wrote it. I just knew

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Speaker 1: I had this little piece of paper that described the

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Speaker 1: disposable camera. But I always wondered, like, why didn't this

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Speaker 1: reporter follow up? Like it's such a fascinating little tidbit.

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Speaker 1: It immediately captivated me. Um so that and then as

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Speaker 1: soon as I found out that you wrote the article,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, well, she went on to very

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Speaker 1: distinguished career where she had, you know, three three peabodies

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Speaker 1: and a lot of serious investigative work. That's why. That's

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Speaker 1: why she didn't follow up on the disposable camera. But

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Speaker 1: I think because I saw the photos, I think there

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Speaker 1: was kind of a sense of like, okay, I've seen them,

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Speaker 1: and you know that I remember them not being like

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Speaker 1: very The photos themselves were not the thing that was gripping,

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Speaker 1: you know. It was literally like a man in a

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Speaker 1: construction outfit or in something beige standing in front of

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Speaker 1: a window. It wasn't like he was like holding up

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Speaker 1: a sign saying goodbye to his family, or you know,

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Speaker 1: taking pictures of people huddled in a corner. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like that. There was no there was no drama to

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Speaker 1: the actual photographs themselves. It's like he took a picture

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Speaker 1: of the building burning across the street. So like when

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Speaker 1: you would imagine, I guess you would do if you

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Speaker 1: didn't think you were necessarily going to die. But you

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Speaker 1: maybe we're getting sense. I don't. I'm just you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just extrapolating like what he might have been thinking,

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Speaker 1: Like he had a camera on him, the building, his head,

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Speaker 1: he takes some photos and then things turn for the

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Speaker 1: worse for him. So maybe for that, I was like,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the photos themselves, but that it captured this

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Speaker 1: moment that was his last moments that he didn't really

428
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: know when he was taking the photos were his last moments.

429
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: It's interesting though, because you say it doesn't capture anything dramatic,

430
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: but it's a high level view of one of the

431
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: towers burning, and you wrote in the article that it

432
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: also shows people falling out of the towers. So and

433
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: I don't remember that as well. But yeah, that's what

434
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: I must have seen, and they captured other jumpers falling.

435
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: He must have been taking a picture of the maybe

436
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: the jumpers and other building, or the jumpers in his

437
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: building falling. It's interesting because obviously I've told you I've

438
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: tried to obtain the photos for literally eleven eleven years now.

439
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: But even if obviously if I got them, I wouldn't

440
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: just immediately published some there's obviously a huge ethical question

441
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: of what to publish. But since I haven't seen them,

442
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: as far as I know, you're the only civilian who's

443
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: ever seen the photos. And I'll also tell you that

444
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: literally nobody knows they exist. So your article came out

445
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: at an interesting moment because it's right at the dawn

446
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: of social media and it's very hard to see that

447
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: detail escaping people today. But at the time, you know,

448
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: nobody remembers this article. You couldn't even find it, like

449
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: I had to go digging for it. And so like

450
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I've interviewed Kevin Flynn, who co wrote a hundred in

451
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: two minutes, I interviewed the chief curator of the nine

452
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: eleven Museum. I've talked to authors zero people that I've

453
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: talked to are aware of these photos. And from my perspective,

454
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: what part of why it captivated me is because so

455
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: few photos and videos were captured in the towers on

456
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: nine eleven, that because it was this turning point in technology.

457
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: I actually went through and found every single photo and

458
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: video that I could, including confirmed, confirmed and unconfirmed photos

459
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: and videos, and it was less than fifty I think

460
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: it was forty nine. So these are are really presumably

461
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, he died, so presumably taken above the point

462
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: of impact. So these are really unique view of a

463
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: monumental moment in American history that we've never seen before.

464
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: Taken high up in the towers. There's there's nothing like them. Um.

465
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: And I think when I read that, I mean, you've

466
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: seen the photos. But I think that when people learn

467
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: about these photos again, there's just going to be this

468
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: really strong, I don't want to say morbid curiosity, because

469
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: it's beyond it's beyond that, because it's such a different

470
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: point of view of history. What else do you remember

471
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: about them? That they were that I did not know

472
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: who it was, and he did not tell me, and

473
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: I already knew that I was like in a special

474
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: space and there was only so much I could push.

475
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: I definitely never knew who this camera belonged to, or

476
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: who or who or even who took the photo. I mean,

477
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: who you know? Is the birthday party the same thing.

478
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: There wasn't like a lot of clarity, and there wasn't

479
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: and there was still a real sense, I mean, this

480
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: was just two years after. There was a real sense

481
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: that this stuff was very private, that this belonged to

482
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: the grieving families of the victims, and that it was

483
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: not to be chased down, or that I was not

484
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: supposed to go knock on someone's door and say, why

485
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: don't you want to see these photos? Or did they

486
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: even know? Do you know these photos? It was like

487
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: I was lucky to be there in the first place,

488
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: looking at the toothbrushes of the hijackers. I mean, I mean,

489
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: where are the toothbrushes? I guess I you know. And

490
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: it's part of this doesn't surprise me at all, by

491
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: the way, because I'm working on this story that this

492
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: is not. That's about nine eleven, and the FBI cannot

493
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: find the only known video of the nine eleven hijackers

494
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: at an apartment party in the Los Angeles about nine

495
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: months before the attack. It is the only known video

496
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: of the hijackers. Multiple people saw it from the nine

497
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: eleven Commission, and they have lost it. They have lost

498
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: let me repeat this. They have lost the only video

499
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: of Hamsey and Midhar who win Los Angeles before the attacks.

500
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: And they no longer have any idea where this video is.

501
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: This video existed, it's it's it's in a footnote of

502
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: the nine eleven Commission. The nine eleven Commission. People saw it.

503
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: It was a real thing, and it is totally gone.

504
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: They have no idea where this thing is. I don't

505
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: know how you lose, like I mean, there's a lot

506
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: of evidence from this, I'll give them that, But like

507
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: disposable camera, they lost the video of the hijackers before

508
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: the attacks. So I don't know where this stuff goes.

509
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I actually I do after all these years

510
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: of covering law enforcement, that somebody needs it for something else,

511
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: and then they put it in a different box, and

512
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: then somebody takes it home because they want to review

513
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: the evidence, and now it's in somebody's basement, and then

514
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: somebody dies and then they send it out to junk

515
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's what happens to this stuff. It's interesting

516
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: because that's the other big issue here. So part of this,

517
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: part of what interests me is obviously the images themselves.

518
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought the same thing. I mean, I

519
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: didn't know that about the video obviously. That's that's that's

520
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: kind of incredible because I already scripted this episode. This

521
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: is the last piece of it before we put it together,

522
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: and that that's something that I raised. Two is just

523
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: how is this evidence stored? How is it cataloged? Like

524
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't know that about the video.

525
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: But even these images that I've always gotten to know

526
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: when I filed for a requests, which you know from

527
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: the FBI, doesn't surprise me. But uh, but the different

528
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: excuses every time, and the most recent was we wouldn't

529
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: be able to locate these without manually sorting through thousands

530
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: of files and thousands of boxes. And I hesitated to

531
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: use at first the word lost. But it's like I

532
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: I joke in the show, like if if I ask you,

533
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, where are your car keys and you say, well,

534
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to go search through three thousand boxes to

535
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: find them, like you lost them, They've got a lost. Well,

536
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: the other thing is those three thousand photographs. It's been

537
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: twenty years. They belong to the American public. These things

538
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: should be accessible, foilable, and open to public viewing. At

539
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: this point, there's not a lot of secrets that need

540
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: to be kept after nine eleven. And I guess I'm

541
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: obviously a journalist, but I just feel that this belongs

542
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: in the public sphere. And if there are thousands of

543
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: photographs from nine eleven, then we should be able to

544
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: see them and and people should be able to review

545
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: them for just this reason, so that we can track

546
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: down exactly what happened that day and what that experience

547
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: is was like, so that we don't forget it. Yeah. Absolutely,

548
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: And beyond these photos specifically, there's still so many unanswered

549
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: questions obviously about the hijackers, about possible foreign ties to

550
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, about I was looking at the timeline of

551
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: the hijackers recently. I was just in Portland, Maine a

552
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: few months ago, and I've drove by the motel where

553
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: they stayed on September ten, and and and there's just

554
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, there's still the quote, why were they in Portland?

555
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: Like there are auto was in Portland. There's so many

556
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: unanswered questions, Um, I agree with you. I'm working on

557
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: that right now. Well, I guess I'll ask you in

558
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: terms of the FBI. Obviously you have much more experience

559
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: working with this kind of stuff than I do, and

560
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: I want to be fair to the FBI. Am I

561
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: missing something or like I I? Like I said, I

562
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: hesitated to use the word lost, but I've tried for

563
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: eleven years and they've thrown a million different excuses at me,

564
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: and it just by their own admission, they can't find

565
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: these these images and you're telling me they can also

566
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: find a video that was cited in the nine eleven report.

567
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: Is there something I'm missing or is It's just like,

568
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: is there a Do you think that there's a bigger

569
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: systemic problem with how nine eleven evidence was cataloged and handled?

570
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent question, and I mean I do.

571
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: I wish I knew the answer to it. I'd say

572
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: the fact that there isn't just a very clear outline

573
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: of what there is and where it exists, then yeah,

574
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: there's a problem with how this evidence was handled over time.

575
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: It was a sprawling investigation. This was the largest investigation

576
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: and FBI history, and it's warehouses full of stuff. But

577
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: there's really no excuse for not knowing at this point

578
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: exactly what you have, where it is, and what it means.

579
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: So I'm sure you know the years that I've covered them.

580
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: This is a budget issue, this is a resources issue.

581
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: It takes people, take space, it takes you know, you've

582
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: got to rent these things, and there's sometimes there's not

583
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: always a will to keep all of that. And then

584
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: you also have to have somebody, I mean, you basically

585
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: need a library of people to organize it all and

586
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: put it into some kind of form that people can

587
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: can find it. But what I think is somewhat it's

588
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: very hard for them to defend is why there aren't copies.

589
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: There should have been copies of these photos. There should

590
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: have been copies of these video of the video, and

591
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: that I don't understand at all. Are you still trying

592
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: to obtain or find the video? Yeah, it's gone though,

593
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: it's gone, like they've pretty much acknowledged a and then

594
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: then the legal case that they're in right now that

595
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: they can't find it. Huh, Okay, Well, these photos in particular,

596
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, nobody that I've talked to

597
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: knows about them. And from the point of history. I

598
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: guess I would ask you, would you want to see

599
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: them again if you had, if you had the opportunity,

600
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: I'm assuming the answer is yes, Yes, I definitely would

601
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: like to see them again, and I think the rest

602
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: of the public should see them too. I just hope

603
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: that all of this evidence is somewhere, you know. I

604
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: hope these photos and I hope their toothbrushes, and I

605
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: hope all of it has been kept somewhere, because while

606
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: it feels like it's just like a macabre like kind

607
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: of look into a tragedy that caused so much pain

608
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: to somebody, and it feels like you're just like stuck

609
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: in the details, it's in the details that that all

610
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: the information is. It's like I think, over time and

611
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: over the decades that passed like nine o leven will

612
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: become just this thing that happened in history, and it

613
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna end up like kids are gonna

614
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: watch it and you know, oversimplified years from now, and

615
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: it's just going to become this kind of this moment

616
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: that that isn't real anymore, and there's something in these

617
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: details and and actually looking at the belongings of the

618
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: hijackers and the belongings of the victims on that day

619
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: that make it real and that make people understand that

620
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: this was this horrific thing that our country endured and

621
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 1: is still dealing with twenty years later. And that's why

622
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: all of these things are so important, and we can't

623
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: lose them, and we need to make sure that they're

624
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: available so that people can see them because it brings

625
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: you back in such a real way. Homework one. If

626
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: you know the name of the Bloomberg photographer who left

627
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: window us on the world right before the attacks began,

628
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: please contact us too. If you work on the hill,

629
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: if you're a reporter, or if you're concerned citizen, fight

630
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: for Fourier reform, especially as it pertains to the FBI.

631
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: The bureau should be more transparent. It shouldn't be allowed

632
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: to indiscriminately trample over foil law with that bid excuses.

633
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: And if you're a National security or d o J reporter,

634
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: ask the FBI about how it handled catalog and stored

635
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: nine eleven evidence about why it can't locate specific unique

636
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: photos evidence without manually sorting through thousands of files. You

637
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: can reach us by phone at one eight three three

638
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: New tips that's one eight three three six, three, nine,

639
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: eight four seven seven again one eight three, three, six, three, nine,

640
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: eight four seven seven, or you can reach us via

641
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: email at tips at iHeart media dot com. That's tips,

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Speaker 1: t I p s at iHeart media dot com. Also,

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Speaker 1: we obtained unique, unpublished nine eleven an audio, which we

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Speaker 1: plan to share with you soon, so keep an eye

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Speaker 1: on our feed. Ben Bolan is our executive producer, Paul

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Speaker 1: Decan is our supervising producer, Chris Brown is our assistant producer,

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Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam Ti Garden is

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Speaker 1: our research assistant, and I'm your host and executive producer

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Speaker 1: John Waalzac. Cover art by Pam Peacock, Donald Sockleman, voiced

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Speaker 1: by Ben Boland. Special thanks to Tamika Campbell at I

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Speaker 1: Heeart and to Christoph Zapary in New Orleans. Also thank

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Speaker 1: you to Ben Chia, Kevin Flynn, Laura Sullivan, and ASoP Rock.

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend Kevin's book one hundred and two Minutes,

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Speaker 1: The Unforgettable Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the

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Speaker 1: Twin Towers. Original theme music by ASoP Rock. Check out

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Speaker 1: a SOOPS website at ASoP rock dot com. If you

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Speaker 1: like this show, check out our first season, Missig in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: about the nineteen seventy two disappearance of two congressmen missing

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Speaker 1: on nine eleven. Is a co production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Greenfork Media