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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have personal?

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Speaker 3: Indeed we do.

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Speaker 4: Nice to be back in the studio. Nice to have you.

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Speaker 1: Back, Thank you, thank you. Yes, here we are to everybody.

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Speaker 1: We're back. We've survived the Great snow Apocalypse at twenty

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Speaker 1: so far.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, we are actually just ano week, but anyway, we

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Speaker 2: are here and it feels nice to be here, and

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Speaker 2: there's a lot.

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Speaker 4: To talk about.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, we continue to have our eye on those horrific

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Speaker 2: fires west in La. Already two of the fires are

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Speaker 2: the worst and the second worst, most devastating fires in

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Speaker 2: the history of LA some of the worst fires in

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Speaker 2: all of California's history. So we're taking a look at that.

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Speaker 2: We've got new horrific images from the ground. New political

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Speaker 2: fallout will cover all of it. Biden actually decided to

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Speaker 2: give I guess a bit of an exit interview to

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Speaker 2: USA today. It's the only time, this is crazy during

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Speaker 2: his four years in office, the only time he sat

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Speaker 2: down with a major newspaper, and it is pretty interesting

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Speaker 2: what he had to say.

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Speaker 4: So we'll break that down for you.

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Speaker 2: We've got Democrats joining with Republicans on an immigration crackdown.

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Speaker 2: What is in that bill and what does it say

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Speaker 2: about where our politics are right now? Jeff Stein is

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Speaker 2: going to join. He had what turned out to be

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Speaker 2: kind of a controversial scoop with regard to tariffs. People

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Speaker 2: were mad at him, the Trump people pushed back on him.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we have a lot of trust in

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Speaker 2: Jeff and his reporting, So we'll tell him. We'll find

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Speaker 2: out from him what his latest view is on how

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Speaker 2: Trump is planning to implement this massive terrorist gen Fox

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Speaker 2: News is being accused of slipping Trump the town hall

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Speaker 2: questions in advance for this Fox News town while you

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Speaker 2: guys might remember with Brett Baer and Martha McCollum, so

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Speaker 2: take a look at that, and Sager has a big

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Speaker 2: old monologue on the whole H one B situation, which

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Speaker 2: I personally very much looking forward to. Is one of

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Speaker 2: the stories that we really missed your voice on.

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Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. I was desperate to weigh in, but

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Speaker 1: you know how it is when you're on vacation, your

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Speaker 1: wife doesn't want you to so so be it. That's

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Speaker 1: true pain for anybody who've ever had to suffer it.

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Speaker 1: I've done my best here to try and weigh in

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Speaker 1: later on with as much as I can add. But

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Speaker 1: let's get to Los Angeles particularly, just heartbreaking, one of

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Speaker 1: the best cities in the United States, and just horrible,

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Speaker 1: horrible images coming out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolute insane apocalyptic images coming out of LA right

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Speaker 2: now before we jump into them, just to give you

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Speaker 2: the overview. I know Ryan and Emily did a great

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Speaker 2: job covering this yesterday, but a number of fires have

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Speaker 2: broken down around LA. The largest one is the Palisades Fire,

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Speaker 2: the second largest one is the Eton Fire. There was

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Speaker 2: another one that broke out yesterday in the famed Hollywood

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Speaker 2: Hills area, causing further evacuations. So far, the numbers in

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Speaker 2: the New York Times this morning say that they have

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Speaker 2: burned more than twenty seven thousand acres. That's equivalent to

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Speaker 2: nearly twenty thousand football fields. They have destroyed at least

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Speaker 2: two thousand structures. And as I said before, the two

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Speaker 2: largest fires here the Palisades which is the worst, the

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Speaker 2: Eaten Fire, which is the second worst. They are the

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Speaker 2: first and second worst fires in the history of la

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Speaker 2: Both of them are in the top twenty most destructive

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Speaker 2: fires in the history of California. Fed by massive drought situation,

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Speaker 2: the worst drought that the southwestern United States has faced

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Speaker 2: in some twelve hundred years. So fuel that, and then

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Speaker 2: you add to that the Santa Ana winds and you

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Speaker 2: have an absolute catastrophe on your hands. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and take a look at some of the latest horrific

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Speaker 2: images that are coming out here. This is an aerial

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Speaker 2: view that you can see of the Palisades area. This is,

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Speaker 2: you know, a very beautiful, very affluent area which has

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Speaker 2: now been burnt to an absolute crisp. You can see

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Speaker 2: this is driving around that neighborhood and you know, sections

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Speaker 2: of it, there's just nothing left. Everything charred, homes, businesses, schools, churches,

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Speaker 2: you name it, charred to the ground. This was a

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Speaker 2: horrifying video that came out. There was a lot of

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Speaker 2: concern for the person who recorded this video, but we've

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Speaker 2: since learned that the individual recorded that is thankfully safe

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Speaker 2: and sound. But you could see the fire lapping at

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Speaker 2: their home. This is another view. This is I believe

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Speaker 2: a former Starbucks that we saw there, a relatively famous

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Speaker 2: Starbucks in La This is a school that is a

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Speaker 2: blaze in the same area. And I think the last

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Speaker 2: image we have is of this blood red sunrise. Again

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Speaker 2: dystopian and apocalyptic as I mean, you can hardly that

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Speaker 2: looks like that looks fake, right, doesn't even look real.

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Speaker 2: So these are just some of the scenes of devastations

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Speaker 2: that are coming out. And you know, there's the larger picture,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, this climate fueled disaster, climate change

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Speaker 2: fuel disaster, and then there's also basically everything that could

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Speaker 2: go wrong seems to be going wrong. The city, led

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Speaker 2: by Mayor Karen Bass We're going to talk more about

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Speaker 2: in a moment, has just recently cut the budget by

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars for the firefighting department, which, you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're talking about a city where there's always been

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Speaker 2: a risk of wildfires and that risk has only escalated

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Speaker 2: in this time of extreme climate events, seems like the

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Speaker 2: wrong direction to go in.

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Speaker 4: And sure enough, it turns out they are saying.

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Speaker 2: Officials are saying, we don't have enough firefighters to fight

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Speaker 2: this blaze.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to a little bit of what

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Speaker 4: they had to say.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for the question. So I'll start at the

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Speaker 5: end and work back.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 5: La County and all twenty nine fire departments in our

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Speaker 5: county not prepared for this type of widespread disaster. There

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Speaker 5: are not enough firefighters in La County to address four

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Speaker 5: separate fires of this magnitude. We were prepared. We did

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Speaker 5: get state preposition resources that came from northern California that

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Speaker 5: were up in the Santa Clarita Valley. We did hire

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Speaker 5: additional firefighters from the La County Fire Department and preposition

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Speaker 5: them in the Santa Monica Mountains. The La County Fire

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Speaker 5: Department was prepared for one or two major brush fires,

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Speaker 5: but not four, especially given these sustained winds and low humidities.

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Speaker 5: Like our director of Emergency Management said, this is not

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Speaker 5: a normal red flag alert, and.

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Speaker 2: Sager, you know, one of the things that people have

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Speaker 2: been focused on is, as I mentioned before, that fire

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Speaker 2: department funding was just cut by twenty three million dollars

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Speaker 2: in an era when obviously, you know, the risks continue

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Speaker 2: to escalate. And in addition to this, Mayor Karen Bass

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Speaker 2: has been out of the country, was in Ghana, Ghana,

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Speaker 2: which you know, I mean, here's travel you could say, okay,

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Speaker 2: just came out and no nowhere. No one could have

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Speaker 2: predicted the extent of the fires here and just how

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Speaker 2: destructive and damaging they would be. However, the Santa Ana

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Speaker 2: wins are predictable, the drought was known, the you know,

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Speaker 2: tinderbox conditions were certainly known, and as we're about to

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Speaker 2: get to but I'll get your reaction first, she did

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Speaker 2: herself no favors in terms of her lack of response

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Speaker 2: to some very basic questions about her own leadership failures here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, then this is one of those where people look

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Speaker 1: to the person in charge and they need to have

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Speaker 1: confidence that their government is looking out for them. If

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Speaker 1: you live in Los Angeles and if you think about

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Speaker 1: these areas, Pacific Palisades. We're talking about an area where

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Speaker 1: I believe the average home price is like several million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which means that the residents there are paying astronomical property taxes.

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Speaker 1: They're probably tax if they're making over a million or so,

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Speaker 1: fourteen percent state income tax. It's like, listen, if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna pay that much, you know, you pay the sunshine task.

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Speaker 1: But part of it is sunshine tax. Part of it is, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're probably going to if there's a horrible fire, someone's

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Speaker 1: gonna come out and look out for me. So this

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Speaker 1: is a real abdication of leadership and just systematic basic failure.

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Speaker 1: And so that's as you said, you've got to separate

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Speaker 1: out historic temperatures and all of the other problems, but

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Speaker 1: there are realistic things that should have been done. It's

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Speaker 1: not me just saying this. There have been a lot

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Speaker 1: of critiques in Los Angeles around this, around the fire hydrants,

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Speaker 1: the draining of reservoirs, the fact that there is no water,

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Speaker 1: which we're going to get to, the cutting of the

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Speaker 1: fire department, forest management. All of this, of course is

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Speaker 1: going to have to be scrutinized heavily afterwards. But for

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Speaker 1: the mayor having approximately five days notice. From what I

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Speaker 1: understand of the Santa Ana Wins end of the tinderbox conditions,

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Speaker 1: it is just unforgivable to stay in Ghana because really

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Speaker 1: we're talking about vanity trips here, like we're not talking

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Speaker 1: about visiting Tokyo or somewhere else where you do a

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Speaker 1: significant amount of business, you know, as the mayor or

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Speaker 1: somebody of Los Angeles, I believe the purpose of the

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Speaker 1: trip was just one of these cultural exchanges, just from

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Speaker 1: what I saw in my initial research. And so yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and look fine, all right, but let be the US

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Speaker 1: ambassador handle it. The mayor of Los Angeles does not

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Speaker 1: need to handle it, and so for her not to

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Speaker 1: come back as a problem. And then the thing is

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Speaker 1: is that she delayed it up until like a very

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Speaker 1: very last moment that we saw for coming back, and

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Speaker 1: since has now basically refused to answer any questions when

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Speaker 1: she was confronted at the airport. So we have here

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Speaker 1: a clip. It appears to be a British journalist. We're

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Speaker 1: not exactly sure where it was taken. It's from Sky News.

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Speaker 1: It was taken from somewhere I believe it was in

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Speaker 1: the UK. Possibly transiting through that airport on her way

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Speaker 1: back to LA But she's basically catatonic in questions about

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Speaker 1: why she's out of the country and why she got

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Speaker 1: the fire department budget.

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Speaker 6: Let's take a listen, do you, oh, citizen's an apology

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Speaker 6: for being absent while their homes were burning, cutting the

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Speaker 6: fire department budget by millions of dollars? Madam Mayre, Have

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Speaker 6: you nothing to say today? Have you absolutely nothing to

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Speaker 6: say to the citizens today? Do anything to say to

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Speaker 6: the citizens today as you returned? Second, Madam Mayor, just

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Speaker 6: a few words for the citizens today as you return

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Speaker 6: to deal with a catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: I mean literally catati. I just don't understand why anybody

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Speaker 1: would act like that. I mean, it's one thing if

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Speaker 1: you're a member of Congress and someone's asking about a

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Speaker 1: question about like a Trump tweet, it's like you're the

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Speaker 1: mayor of Los Angeles. Your city is burning to the ground.

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Speaker 1: On top of that, I mean, you need to answer

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Speaker 1: a question here about these fire hydrants, about reservoirs, uh

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Speaker 1: and the stuff which is in your immediate purview. And

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Speaker 1: so there's multiple like layers of crisis here that are

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Speaker 1: happening from the fire department level, the managerial level of

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Speaker 1: basic city function. We're talking about water resis of war management.

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Speaker 1: Then the governor, the gubernatorial level who right now Gavin

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Speaker 1: was asked about it yesterday. He goes, oh, that's a

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Speaker 1: local matter. In terms, it's like, okay, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: even if we think about La County and we have

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Speaker 1: all these little different like municipalities, as I understand is

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Speaker 1: like Santa Monica, etcetera. You know, they're all like self

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Speaker 1: governing institutions. Somebody needs to look out for them. And

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Speaker 1: it's just sounded like a big major culture. Of course,

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Speaker 1: is a cultural capital of the United States. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the largest cities in the US. I think it's

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Speaker 1: number two, uh, and it's it's one of the it's

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Speaker 1: it is the one of like the beating hearts of

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Speaker 1: America's entertainment industry, of arts, of a lot of our culture.

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Speaker 1: And it's really sad, you know, it's just on a

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Speaker 1: personal level. I know people who've been affected by the fires.

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Speaker 1: But this is a great American city and it looks

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Speaker 1: it's had a lot of problems in recent years. But

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Speaker 1: to have it just watch get burned to the ground.

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Speaker 1: And we're about to talk about insurance. Who knows if

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Speaker 1: it will ever be the same A lot of these people.

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Speaker 1: I mean me tell you, if I had the amount

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Speaker 1: of money that I was living in the Pacific Palisades

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Speaker 1: and my home burned to the round, I'm not going back.

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving. I'll be like, listen, you guys failed me

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Speaker 1: in the biggest moment. You know that, in the moment

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Speaker 1: that we paid all these millions of dollars in property taxes.

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Speaker 1: I'm out. And I think a lot of people are

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Speaker 1: going to feel that way, especially if they can't even

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Speaker 1: buy fire insurance again, which it seems likely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And for the wealthy, like it's still

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Speaker 2: no matter who you are on your income level, is

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Speaker 2: devastating to lose your home. It's devastating to lose, you know,

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Speaker 2: something that's cherished and where you've built lots of memories

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Speaker 2: and the possessions that you have attachment to, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So I don't want to minimize their loss. But they're

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Speaker 2: going to be okay, They're going to be able to build.

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Speaker 2: They can leave wherever they want. They can leave, they

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Speaker 2: can go somewhere else, they can if they want to stay,

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Speaker 2: they can rebuild. They can take the risk of not

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Speaker 2: having fire insurance and you know, have.

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Speaker 4: The wealth to be able to just rebuild on their own.

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Speaker 2: But obviously, when a natural disaster like this strikes, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't distinguish by class. So you have every sociate and

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Speaker 2: economic class in la that has been devastated by this,

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Speaker 2: and you know, in a city that does have these

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Speaker 2: sort of like you know, it's very local, partly because

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Speaker 2: the traffic is so bad that you just want to

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Speaker 2: like stay in your neighborhood and not have to drive

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Speaker 2: around that much. This has really been kind of a

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Speaker 2: unifying event because everyone is affected, even the areas that

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Speaker 2: haven't been.

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Speaker 4: Burnt to the ground.

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Speaker 2: Which, by the way, let's put a two up on

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Speaker 2: the screen just so you guys can see this image

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Speaker 2: that is making the rounds of this is the overview

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Speaker 2: of this is specific. This is palasades like that is insane.

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Speaker 2: There is nothing left. But yeah, for the wealthy, they're

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Speaker 2: going to be able to put it back together. They're

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Speaker 2: going to be able to rebuild. If you're someone who

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Speaker 2: was already struggling, who was already on the edge, and

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Speaker 2: you've lost everything and you may not have a choice

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Speaker 2: to go somewhere else. You may not have the funds

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Speaker 2: to go somewhere else. Your job, you know, your only

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Speaker 2: like lifeline to being able to have a prayer of

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Speaker 2: paying the rent and being able to rebuild may be there,

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Speaker 2: so you may not have an option just to go

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Speaker 2: back to Karen Bass. And I mean that clip is

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Speaker 2: one of the most politically catastrophic clips I have ever seen.

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Speaker 2: And to just freeze up very obvious basic questions here,

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Speaker 2: how hard would it be to say, as soon as

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Speaker 2: I saw the fires breakout, I did everything I could

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Speaker 2: to get back as soon as I could. And you know,

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Speaker 2: here's what we're doing, and here's our action plan, and

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Speaker 2: we're going to make sure everybody's okay in LA's and

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Speaker 2: now's the time to come down like whatever political but

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Speaker 2: like say something, To have no answers in that moment

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Speaker 2: is truly astonishing. And what I would say is for

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Speaker 2: Karen Bass and every mayor, every elected official around the country,

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Speaker 2: you better get really good at mitigation. You better get

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Speaker 2: really good at thinking about how your budget can be

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Speaker 2: leveraged to try to protect people from these extreme climate events,

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Speaker 2: because you know, these are the worst fires in LA history.

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Speaker 2: We just saw again again fueled by a worse than

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Speaker 2: twelve hundred year drought. The temperature, the average temperature in

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Speaker 2: California has risen by a full degree celsius, which is

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Speaker 2: about two and a half degrees fahrenheit. Just since nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty we saw the devastating her canes that ravaged western

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Speaker 2: North Carolina and other areas with you know, flooding. These

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Speaker 2: are areas that never really thought I mean, people had

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Speaker 2: moved to those areas because they thought they were escaping

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Speaker 2: the worst of extreme climate events like this is the

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Speaker 2: era that we live in now. And I think there was,

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Speaker 2: you know, a time when it was open a question

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Speaker 2: whether we and the rest of the world would get

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Speaker 2: our act together and use the technology available to us

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Speaker 2: and curb some of the lifestyle and the bottom line

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Speaker 2: of the ultra wealthy in order to get climate change

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Speaker 2: under control and try to limit the damage. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I look at this and it's we're effectively beyond that.

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Speaker 2: The wealthy and especially the actors that you know that

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Speaker 2: led fossil fuel companies, that led a political cover up

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Speaker 2: for years and years, who knew for fifty years the

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Speaker 2: impact they were causing on the climate. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: sort of the worst villains here, But there's all kinds

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Speaker 2: of characters that are complicit. But this is the era

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Speaker 2: we're in now. So if you're the mayor of la

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Speaker 2: and you know, you've got to sit that is fire

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Speaker 2: prone and only becoming more so every single year that

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Speaker 2: these patterns persist and the climate gets hotter and hotter,

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Speaker 2: and the swings get more and more extreme, you've got

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Speaker 2: to be insane to be cutting the firefighting budget. And

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Speaker 2: then at the same time, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: subplots here is also that there are these private firefighters

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Speaker 2: effectively for hire that exist in these areas, that are

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Speaker 2: effectively hired by the insurance companies to protect the properties

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Speaker 2: that they've ensured. So you know, it's just as dystoping

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Speaker 2: as it can possibly be. And effectively, you know, the

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Speaker 2: ultra wealthy effectively run this country and buy and large

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Speaker 2: run the world. They've decided, rather than trying to deal

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Speaker 2: with the core of the issue, they're going to try

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Speaker 2: to mitigate for themselves and limit the catastrophic damage for

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Speaker 2: themselves and letter rip and that's effectively where we are

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Speaker 2: to get back to the micro level here, as Soccer

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Speaker 2: was mentioning. In addition, to the fact that Karen Bass

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Speaker 2: was gone, in addition to the fact that the fire

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Speaker 2: chief is saying we just literally do not have enough

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Speaker 2: firefighters to fight this blaze. Also, as was alluded to,

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Speaker 2: some of the fire hydrants are running dry because of

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Speaker 2: the obviously strain on the system. Let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: take a listen to some of the details that have

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Speaker 2: been announced on that.

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Speaker 7: We're losing water pressure up here. We have a lack

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Speaker 7: of resources. The wind, as you see, is pushing it

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Speaker 7: very violently, and the lack of water is a huge,

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Speaker 7: huge hurdle that we're trying to overcome so we can

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Speaker 7: save as much as we can.

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Speaker 1: So, lack of water, no pressure in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 7: All the hydrants have run dry.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, so what do you do now?

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Speaker 7: So we send our water tenders or our engines down

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Speaker 7: to shuttle water from further away, different different hydrants that

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Speaker 7: still have water.

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Speaker 1: This is bad.

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Speaker 7: It makes it challenging to do our job. But we're

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Speaker 7: just up here trying to do the best we can

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Speaker 7: for the citizens in the community.

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Speaker 2: Hydrants running dry unbelievable, and we have a tear sheet

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Speaker 2: to this effect too from the La Times that did

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Speaker 2: some reporting on this cruise battling the Palisades blaze face

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Speaker 2: and additional burdens scores of fire hydrants in that area

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Speaker 2: had little to no water flowing out. The hydrants are down,

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Speaker 2: said one firefighter in internal radio communications.

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Speaker 4: Water supply just drop.

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Speaker 2: By three am Wednesday, all water storage tanks in the

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Speaker 2: Palisades area went dry, diminishing the flow of water from

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Speaker 2: hydrants in higher elevations. According to the chief executive and

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Speaker 2: chief engineer of the LA Department of Water and Power,

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Speaker 2: that is the city's utility. So you've got hydrants running

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Speaker 2: dry at the same time. I'm sure you guys have seen,

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Speaker 2: you know, at times when they're battling these blazes, they'll

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Speaker 2: use helicopters. But because these winds are so extreme, we're

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Speaker 2: talking gusts of at times one hundred miles per hour,

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Speaker 2: that is hurricane force gusts, which is part of what

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Speaker 2: fueled this horrific blaze, with embers blowing everywhere and blowing in,

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Speaker 2: you know, in ways that are not actually typical. Even

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Speaker 2: with the Santa Anna wins. You can't fly a helicopter

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Speaker 2: in one hundred mile per hour gust situation. So my

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Speaker 2: understanding saga is that they are able to use aircraft

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Speaker 2: to help to battle the flames. Today, the winds have

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Speaker 2: subsided somewhat. The forecast calls for them to pick back

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Speaker 2: up into tomorrow and into the weekend. But you know,

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Speaker 2: to have imagine being out there trying to battle this

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Speaker 2: blaze and you just literally there's no water, no water.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the LA Council member Tracy Park for Pacific

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Speaker 1: Palisades revealed that all three of the major reservoirs ran dry.

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Speaker 1: So she said that they are the three large water

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Speaker 1: tanks in the Pacific Palisades area with a million gallons each.

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Speaker 1: The first ran dry at four to forty five pm Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: the second eight thirty pm, and the third was dry

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Speaker 1: as of three am on Wednesday, and by that time

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Speaker 1: the entire place had burned. As you said, there was

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Speaker 1: an extraordinary demand. But that's actually not an excuse as

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Speaker 1: I understand it, because there had been previous there's been

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Speaker 1: previous just major fights in the LA area about reservoirs

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Speaker 1: and about water management. This goes back again to some

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Speaker 1: like very basic city stuff, and I think again this

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Speaker 1: is gonna have to take a lot of scrutiny in

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Speaker 1: terms of the basics of this, but you know, the

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Speaker 1: truth is is that. And I'm listening to the local

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Speaker 1: reporters here on all of this. We're genuinely trying to

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Speaker 1: stay out of the politics. They're like this, And I

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Speaker 1: listened to one who was like, look, this is basic stuff,

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Speaker 1: water management, city infrastructure, cutting, the budget, lack of investment,

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Speaker 1: and it's been a failure and it is tragic. As

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Speaker 1: you said. You know, I talked about the Pacific Palisades people,

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Speaker 1: that's only one of four fires you know that is

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Speaker 1: currently burning. You don't have to be ultra wealthy to

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Speaker 1: live in some of these places, especially if you moved

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Speaker 1: there thirty forty years ago. You just like a normal

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Speaker 1: middle class person. You know, maybe you want it. You

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Speaker 1: were retiring, you got lucky. You own the house kind

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Speaker 1: of near the beach. You bought it for a couple

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. Now it's worth like two or three million.

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Speaker 1: But this gets us now to the insurance question, and

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Speaker 1: that is one where I really do think we're going

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Speaker 1: to see a total like rewrite of insurance law in

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Speaker 1: the state of California. By the way, if you think

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Speaker 1: the feds are' going to bail them out. There's just

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Speaker 1: no chance they have to basically at this point, and

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Speaker 1: the insurance companies themselves were very much ahead of this one.

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Speaker 1: Let's put a seven please on the screen. You can

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Speaker 1: see that these upscale quote West Side, LA neighborhoods were

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Speaker 1: hit hard by State Farm home insurance cancelations. This was

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Speaker 1: just a few months ago. Thousands of Californians won't see

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Speaker 1: their home insurance renewe by State Farm this summer. Homeowners

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles County, with these West Side neighborhoods hit

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Speaker 1: especially hard, A majority were listen to this. Neighborhoods in

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Speaker 1: West Los Angeles in the Santa Monica Mountains, including pel Air,

435
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: Pacific Palisades, and Woodland Hills are going to lose their coverage.

436
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: The State Farm move obviously affects some of the richest neighborhoods,

437
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: but the reason for it was specifically fire is that

438
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 1: these insurance companies picked up on the fact that there

439
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: was a significant problem with fire coverage in that area.

440
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: Listen to this in Pacific Palisades. So just in April

441
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, sixty nine percent of the policy holders

442
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: in the area will lose coverage. Seventy percent as of

443
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,719
Speaker 1: a few months ago lost all of their coverage. I

444
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: also believe that there are caps in the number of

445
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: insurance for the payout that does not even come close

446
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: to the actual value of the homes. This is complicated

447
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: in terms of policy and all these others. Some people

448
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: can self ensure have different but on average, it does

449
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: seem like there will be think about this as well.

450
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: We have a national home crisis right now. I mean,

451
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: do know how much wood, timber and materials it will cost?

452
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: So you can just see a total disaster. It's not

453
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: as bad as the Maui situation, obviously, but you know,

454
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: because it's on the mainland US. But even rebuilding this

455
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: it will take tens of billions of dollars. Federal infrastructure

456
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: is going to rewrite home insurance. If you live in

457
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: Florida and or California, I mean, good luck, because that's

458
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: another thing with these insurance companies. There's been previous propositions

459
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: and laws. In California, they tried to cap insurance companies

460
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: from raising premiums to make it basically unaffordable to have

461
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: home insurance, and so they capped the number that they

462
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 1: were allowed to have. You can you can change that

463
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: if you want to, but then most people will probably

464
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: just not buy it, or you know, you're going to

465
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: have to have the state and the federal government step in. Heres.

466
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: This is a huge mess. It's a disaster.

467
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

468
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 2: Effectively, extreme weather events have broken the home insurance market,

469
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: Like State Farm is not going to ensure and no

470
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: company is going to ensure this. Nobody's when they see this.

471
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: I mean they looked and they saw this risk. They're

472
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: like twelve hundred year drought, you know, unbelievable conditions. It's

473
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: only a matter of time. We're cutting this off. And

474
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 2: you know, if you're going to let the free market determine,

475
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: then we're going to see more and more areas of

476
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: the country, which this is already We've covered this previously

477
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: with regards to to Florida and other parts of the country.

478
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 2: This is already in effect. I mean, Florida has a

479
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: total mess on their hands because of their susceptibility to hurricanes'

480
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: entire Gulf coasts. You know, Colorado is another area where

481
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: the home insurance. Homeowners insurance market is really struggling. You know,

482
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: oftentimes you can't get a mortgage if you can't get

483
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: that homeowner's insurance not to mention, you know, even if

484
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: you can, then the premiums are absolutely skyrocketing. So that

485
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: is the reality we live in now. And so you're

486
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 2: going to have increasing swaths of the country that are

487
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: just uninsurable. And then there's a question as a society,

488
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: do we want effectively, you know, the federal government, because

489
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: the state governments won't really have the funds to be

490
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 2: able to handle it.

491
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: Do we want.

492
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: As a public to subsidize this market and you know,

493
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: insurance for people who are living in these areas. This

494
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: is one of the sort of societal questions we have

495
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: to ask at this point because otherwise places like and

496
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: I think Ryan said a version of this on the

497
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 2: show with Emily yesterday, you know, places like the Pacific Palisades,

498
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: you're going to have either people who can afford to

499
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: just roll the dice and if their property is burned

500
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: to the ground and they have to rebuild, they've got

501
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: the funds to be able to comfortably do that and

502
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: they're willing to live at that risk, or people who

503
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: can't afford to go anywhere else and are forced into

504
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: the position of effectively having to roll the dice. So

505
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: you know that's that is the era we live in

506
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: and that is where we are right now. The last

507
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 2: piece of this, just to give the backstory here, why

508
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: Karen Bass was in Africa while all of this was

509
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: breaking out? We could put this tear sheet up on

510
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 2: the screen. This is what I was referencing before this.

511
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: There we go a Why was Mayor Karen Bass in

512
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: Africa during the LA fires? She was apparently there to

513
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: celebrate the inauguration of the new Ghanaian president and would

514
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: meet with the country's first female vice president as well

515
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: during a press conference.

516
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: Her deputy chief of staffs she would.

517
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: Be on the ground shortly, and you know, was never

518
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: going to be great for her being out of the

519
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: country for this, especially when there was some ability to

520
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: predict that there could be a problem. Again, no one

521
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: could have known the extent that this would be the

522
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 2: worst fire in the history of LA including loss of life,

523
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: including thousands of structures that are completely destroyed. But there

524
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 2: was a high risk maybe that was overcomeable just from

525
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 2: a political perspective. That clip of her stonefaced no answers,

526
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: I think is, like I said before, one of the

527
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: most devastating political clips that I've ever seen.

528
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 4: And every elexed official.

529
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: Around the country needs to be taking notes of what

530
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: not to do, and they all need to get really

531
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: smart about thinking about the risk to their area and

532
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: what they can possibly do to mitigate it, because I

533
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: think it's pretty clear at this point we're not getting

534
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: our shit together to be able to actually deal with

535
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: the underlying issue and the challenge, Like, the impacts are

536
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: already here. So even if we got series tomorrow, the

537
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: impacts have already arrived.

538
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: I think that this should be a wake up call

539
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: to the governor or the mayor of every major city

540
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: in America, especially in these places you know this is

541
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: an existential, actually event. I think for California that may

542
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: seem crazy to say, but look, California New York in

543
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: particular have a system which is heavily reliant on the

544
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: ultra wealthy, where they pay almost fifty percent of the

545
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: tax and a lot of the property tax. Right. Well,

546
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: when you have that model, it only works if they

547
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: don't leave. Now one hundred and thirty people with thirty

548
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: thousand people or so left the state of California, I

549
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: think just last year. It's one of those places with

550
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: net loss migration. But if the disproportionate number of those

551
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: people are let's say ultra wealthy. It's a huge debt

552
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: to the tax base. So, like I said, if the

553
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: Pacific Palisades I just looked it up, four point five

554
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: million dollars median home list price, that's a lot of

555
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: property tax. And if let's say twenty percent of them

556
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: don't come back, that's boom wiped out. So now you

557
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: have way less money. I mean, a lot of these

558
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: folks are already seen billionaires on my timeline. They're like,

559
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: that's it, I'm moving to Nevada, like I'm done, and

560
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: you know they can afford that. But the point is

561
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: is that they are so heavily relied on by the

562
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: state to pay for all of this other stuff for

563
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: the entire California Los Angeles. I mean, this is like

564
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: the bedrock of how the entire city functions. So if

565
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 1: they do not get their act together and they've decided

566
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: to tax their system that way, that's fine, but you

567
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: better make sure that you know those people want to stay,

568
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: because if you don't, then all of the poorer people

569
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: of the what are their eight million people who live

570
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: in La County, all of their social services, and you know,

571
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: tax base and all of that is going to be

572
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: wiped out. So they've got the pyramid basically a way

573
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: that they use their taxation system that they've decide on,

574
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: and if they start to lose all of the intrinsic

575
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: value of what makes the city of what it is,

576
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: you could really see it get wiped out. So I

577
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: really do feel for them. Like I said, I love

578
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people who are like screwed

579
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I love Los Angeles living, it's amazing. I

580
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: love the state of California. Yeah, it's got a lot

581
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: of problems, but natural, beauty wise and more. And yeah,

582
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: it's just it's painful, you know, to why it's like

583
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: any great American city. I would say the same thing

584
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: about Chicago, New York, any of these places. They're special

585
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: for a reason, and to see them stuffer like this

586
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: is horrible. You know. Let's also remember, like you said,

587
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: our producer Griffin used to live in one of the

588
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: areas which is burning. Many of his friends had to

589
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: flee apparently overnight. As he knows, they all got out safely,

590
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: but because he knows somebody who personally lost their house,

591
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: this is devastating for people, not just billionaires even multimillionaires,

592
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: just normal people working in the industry or whatever. And

593
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: then just imagine if you lost your house. Now, it's

594
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: not the most important thing, but you know, especially when

595
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: you have to deal with these insurance companies and others,

596
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: it's just it's just it's probably one of the most

597
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: taxing events that is up there for stress for your family.

598
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: What do you do now? I can't imagine having to

599
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: go through.

600
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: When you're in LA You're very like it just there's

601
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 2: an aura that settles on you of just the sense

602
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 2: of all these people who are chasing their dreams, who

603
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: are true and it is a very it's a very

604
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: unique vibe when you get there, when you go to

605
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: the restaurant and the waiter is the aspiring actor actress,

606
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: like that is the heart of this.

607
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: You know, iconic cultural phenomenon.

608
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: And yeah, those are the people who are gonna suffer

609
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: the most because they're you know, they're scraping to get

610
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: by and trying to make it, trying to chase their dreams.

611
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: And you know this, this could be extinguishing a lot

612
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: of dreams here. And I do think the series of

613
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: climate catastrophes that we've had. They do represent an existential crisis,

614
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: certainly for California. You know, the irony here, both with

615
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: California and with Florida is these are places people move

616
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: to because of the weather, right, this beautiful, nat beauty,

617
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: sunshiny days. I mean, there's no probably nowhere in the

618
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: country that has a better weather than southern California, Like

619
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: San Diego is ridiculous, right, It's just like, how how

620
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: is this just not even fair? Like why do you

621
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: get this weather all the time?

622
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 4: This isn't right?

623
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: And now that weather is really a double edged sword.

624
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: And same thing with Flora. I mean, people moved to

625
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: Florida because they love the beaches in the sunshine and

626
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: it's warm year round and all that stuff, and now

627
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: the weather comes with this also tremendous downside. So a

628
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: lot of questions about where people will go in La

629
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: from here, about where the country will go from here,

630
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: how local officials will handle these events. But Karen Bass

631
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: is so far a model of what not to do.

632
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: And I have to say, I think Gavin Newsom is

633
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 2: kind of lucky that she's screwed the pooch so badly, because.

634
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 4: He's taking some of the focus off.

635
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, he's got his own problems, like

636
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: just today, we didn't have time to put it into

637
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 1: the show. But he was asked about this fire hydrant thing.

638
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: He goes, Oh, that's a local matter. I'm like, that

639
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: ain't gonna cut it the right.

640
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 4: No, that's not going to cut it all right.

641
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: Well, in speaking of political failures, let's get to our

642
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: current incredible president and.

643
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 4: His great leadership.

644
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 2: So he's at a press conference with Gavin Newsom, supposedly

645
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: responding to the storm. He did cancel a trip to

646
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: Italy to be on the ground and make sure that

647
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: he can marshal the federal resources, not that it really

648
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: has the capability to, you know, with his brain, to

649
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: do much of anything. But anyway, he is here in

650
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: the States for what it's worth. So take a listen

651
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: to him at this press conference again supposedly Laser focused

652
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: on these devastating fires where five people have lost their lives,

653
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: twenty thousand football fields burned. And it'll be a little

654
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: bit difficult to hear, but after the clip plays, I'll

655
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: fill you in. If you aren't able to catch the

656
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: way he changes the subject. Here, take a listen.

657
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 8: You got the.

658
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 9: Conflications today maybe st state, I'm sure what good news is,

659
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 9: I'm a great frans flower.

660
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: What it did?

661
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 9: Four?

662
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

663
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 2: So if you weren't able to hear, changes the subject.

664
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: Suddenly he's like, what the good news is, I'm a

665
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: great grandpa, and then, in classic Biden fashion, doesn't seem to.

666
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 4: Know whether the baby is a girl or a boy?

667
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: Still a boyar, Oh, it's a boy. What did he

668
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: say for?

669
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 4: You said girl?

670
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: And then he seems so But anyway, whatever he, you know,

671
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: is in such an adult state and you and then

672
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: combined with like the narcissism of making this moment about

673
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: you and forcing everyone in the room to be like, congratulations,

674
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: way to go, Like people are dying in an iconic

675
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: American city, is getting burnt to the ground, but happy

676
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: for your personal you know, joy in this moment.

677
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 4: It's just it's just too perfect.

678
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, dude, it's not about you. Yeah, it's nice.

679
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: Congratulations on being the very first president ever to be

680
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: a great grandfather. Not a milestone I would personally be. Yeah,

681
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: he's literally the only president in American history to be

682
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: at the age where you could have great grandchildren. That's

683
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: especially crazy because if you think about some of the

684
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: founders and others who were probably with their sixties or seventies,

685
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: and when people were getting married and having children, and

686
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: they're like sixteen and seventeen years old, you would have

687
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: thought that someone would have been old enough even in

688
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds or so. So, you know, congratulations Joseph

689
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: Robin at Biden for past Bacon history. He is making.

690
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: He is making history in a lot of ways. I mean,

691
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: it's funny, but it's not funny just because, like I said,

692
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: I mean, this is going I think I said this

693
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: on election night and before too, I was like, he

694
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: will go down as one of the most selfish, narcissistic

695
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: individuals in the history of the American presidency. And I

696
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: like to judge him by the things that he set

697
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: out to do. Joe Biden never set out to be

698
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: fdr ll. Maybe in his head he thought so, but

699
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: in reality it was what I need to stop Donald Trump,

700
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: and instead he ushered in Donald Trump's popular vie electoral mandate.

701
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: And if you look at him, his narcissism still somehow

702
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: is able to fight through the Alzheimer's or dementia or

703
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: whatever and rear its ugly head. This sit down with

704
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: Biden is one of the most extraordinary things I've ever

705
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 1: seen from an American president. Let's put this up there

706
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: on the screen, because the very first line that they

707
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: quote is they ask him, do you have the vigor

708
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: to complete four more years in office? And he says,

709
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: so far, so good, But who knows what I'm going

710
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: to be when I'm eighty six years old. Well, that

711
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: might have been an interesting question and proposition to undertake

712
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: when you were running for president as of one year

713
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: ago and lying to the American people about your capacity.

714
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: You guys did a good job of covering that Wall

715
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: Street Journal expose. I mean, but do you remember, you know,

716
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: prior to Biden dropping out, the Journal wrote a much

717
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: more tepid piece, just being like, hey, the president's old

718
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: and people are worried about it. And they were savage,

719
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: you know, ruthlessly by the American If anything, they massively

720
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: understated it. So I just I don't know of reading this,

721
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 1: I just it fills me with like fury and rage. Look,

722
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm happy Biden is not going to be present anymore

723
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: and that they lost and all of that, but it

724
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: doesn't matter because he was our leader. On the global stage,

725
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: and if you just think about, you know, the damage

726
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: that his presidency has wrought, both to the reputation of

727
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: the United States but also just domestically in the strife

728
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 1: that it invited. We effectively had a vacuum of leadership

729
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: for over four years. I just think it's criminal, honestly.

730
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 8: I did.

731
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not just him, like oh, all the people

732
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: around him and the journalists who didn't, who either were

733
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: so dumb that they bought the cheap fakes line or

734
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 2: were actively complicit in a cover up. And I think

735
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: that there was certainly some of both in the press score.

736
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it truly is astonishing, And this is something

737
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: I've been thinking a lot about. I don't know if

738
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: you saw, like Matt iglaci as his.

739
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 4: End of the year, did you guys?

740
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I didn't know he thought this, but

741
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: some of four did, like a oh, they talked to

742
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: journalists about.

743
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 4: What did I get wrong with?

744
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: Oh, oh I did see this the text or whatever.

745
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, well, you know, I genuinely believed the

746
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: Biden iManage. Like you know, maybe that's even more embarrassing

747
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: than being part of a cover up. But I just

748
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: was that naive that I thought, I'm paraphrase and aren't

749
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: it exact words that I genuinely thought, like, oh, he

750
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: seems fine, you know, and he's going to prove the

751
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: hater's wrong at the debate and blah blah blah.

752
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: And here you have.

753
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: Matt Iglesias, who I think he went to Harvard. You know,

754
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm sure has a very high IQ. He's

755
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: probably somebody who's been told his whole life how like

756
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: super smart he is whatever, and he could not see

757
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: what some eighty percent of the American public saw. And

758
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: this is fundamentally why I'm a populist, because like, and

759
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 2: that's not just him, This is so many members of

760
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: this elite media class who were Ivy League educated and

761
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: have all these sources in Washington and you know, think

762
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: of themselves and have been told their whole lives how

763
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: smart they are. And something that was so obvious and

764
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: so basic if you just were watching the clips that

765
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: were coming out of Joe Biden really starting in that

766
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen primary, when you and I were like, hey,

767
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 2: this guy is lost like eight steps already. Imagine what

768
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 2: this is going to look like four years later. But

769
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: they were willing or able, or you know, they were

770
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: willing to engage in a cover up worst case scenario,

771
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 2: or they were so easily manipulated and able to trick

772
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: themselves and talk themselves into thinking, no, no, he's fine,

773
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: there's no problem here. It really is an astonishing, scandalous event.

774
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: And in this sit down interview, so there's a number

775
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 2: of things that are interesting. So Sager mentioned the one

776
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: where he's like, yeah, I was basically willing to roll

777
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 2: the dice on whether or not I would be cogent

778
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: enough to function for another four years, or even alive

779
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: for another four year. I was willing to roll the

780
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: dice on that, which is crazy admission in and of itself.

781
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: Then he gets asked, could you have won? Could you

782
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 2: have beaten Donald Trump? And he says, it's presumptuous to

783
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: say that, but I think yes, really really, because one

784
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: of the things that we have learned first post election

785
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: is that his own polling showed him losing four hundred

786
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: Electoral College votes to Donald Trump.

787
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 4: And he still thinks, and I think he genuinely.

788
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: Believes this as absolutely he.

789
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: Still thinks that he could have won. Then, when he's

790
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: asked about if he would have had the vigor to

791
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: serve another four years in office.

792
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 4: He said, I don't know.

793
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: And then he talked a little bit about his decision

794
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: to run again, and he was saying that, you know,

795
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 2: after bo died, he didn't really wasn't really planning on running,

796
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: and then he talked to Barack and he kind of

797
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: decided that he better. And he says, when Trump was

798
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: running again for reelection, I really thought I had the

799
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 2: best chance of beating him. But I also wasn't looking

800
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: to be president when I was eighty five years old,

801
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: eighty six years old, and so I did talk about

802
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: passing the baton to the next generation of Democratic leaders,

803
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: of phrase many in his party took to mean he

804
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: was not likely to seek a second term.

805
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 4: In terms of how he wants his.

806
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: Legacy to be viewed, he says, I hope history says

807
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: I came in and I had a plan how to

808
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: restore the economy and re establish America's leadership in the world.

809
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 4: That was my hope. I mean, you know who knows,

810
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 4: And I hope.

811
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: It records that I did it with honesty and integrity,

812
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: that I said what was on my mind. Okay, delusional

813
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: that you think that your legacy is two things. Overseeing

814
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: a genocide in Gaza and losing to Donald Trump. That's

815
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: your legacy.

816
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: I would actually add Ukraine to that as well, because

817
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: that's very.

818
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 4: That was a pivotal thing as well. I think you're

819
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 4: right about that.

820
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: And you know, there were good things that I praised

821
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: him for that he did. Economically, right, it's early in

822
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 2: the administration. He did some positive things the National Relations Board,

823
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 2: Lena Khan at the FDC, like, there were some things

824
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: that if he had first of all, it had gotten

825
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: built back better through so you had a stronger social

826
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: safety net that people actually felt an experience in real time. Domestically, economically,

827
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: I think that was a pivotal mistake. But then in

828
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: terms of foreign affairs, I mean, it's just outside of

829
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: withdrawing from Afghanistan, which I hope history O record was

830
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: the right decision, but I've been staying there forevery he

831
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: took on a lot of water politically for the fallout

832
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 2: from that, but Ukraine and Gaza utter and complete disaster.

833
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: And then, as you said, Sager, the one thing that

834
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: he was really sent there to do by the voters

835
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: was to defeat Donald Trump. And you have now ushered

836
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: in a sort of consolidated Trump era, which will be

837
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: reflected in the next block when we talk about Democrats

838
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: now joining with Republicans on these immigration crackdown measures.

839
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't want to. It's difficult. I

840
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: think I did a Lex Readman thing on this. I

841
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: was like, look, it's hard to assess presidents in real time.

842
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: But if you have a good if you have a

843
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: fifty thousand foot view, you can generally tell what are

844
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: the things that you know. I have some of these

845
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: books behind me that are like long ago retrospectives. And

846
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: if you read a history book and it's like, well,

847
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: what are the major events that happened. You had Israel

848
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: and Gaza, you had Ukraine, Yes, Afghanistan will be a footnote.

849
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: We'll be like, yeah, it was decent. You know, in

850
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: the long run, everyone can kind of admit that that

851
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: was a good not needed to happen, It needed to happen,

852
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: you know. The long word will how all have critics,

853
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: criticisms of how it was done, et cetera. Glad that

854
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: that happened, but it will. They will talk about the

855
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: American people's radicalization, about the role of government. They will

856
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: talk about inflation, and they will talk about the legacy

857
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. I mean, people do not. If you

858
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: think about Grover Cleveland. One of the only things people

859
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: note about Grover Cleveland is that he was elected to

860
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: non consecutive terms. Every kid probably learns that in grade

861
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 1: school when they look at the place matter or whatever,

862
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: and oh, what happened there? That's the Biden will be

863
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: the guy in between Trump. That's it. I mean, that's

864
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: all anybody will really remember one hundred years or so

865
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: from now about him, and that he's one of the

866
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: oldest men to have rocket the Oval office and how much,

867
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: honestly of a tragedy it is. If anything, the historian

868
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: writing the age will just be like, how did the

869
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: media you know, even go along with this grotesque farce

870
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: for three years? It was so obvious, as they will

871
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: write and cite editorials and criticisms from twenty nineteen. I

872
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: remember getting so many angry emails and others at the

873
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: time talking about Joe Biden's fake stutter and about how

874
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: the fact that he was just old and his brain

875
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: was melted. Back then, I'm like, you know, it doesn't

876
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: feel good, I guess to be right, but it is

877
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: somewhat vindicating in that if when you can say the

878
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: truth out loud, it's actually powerful, you know in the

879
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: long run. So yeah, reading this, I just I think

880
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: he's so horrible, the way that he foisted himself on America,

881
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: the way that the cover up and all of that

882
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: happened all the My only consolation is that all of

883
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: the people around him, like Jake Sullivan and Anthony Blincoln

884
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: and all the other folks have become such a laughing

885
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: stock in the globe. They won't be like the Obama

886
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: folks who all got cushy jobs at Uber and elsewhere.

887
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: I think they're just to sail off into the sunset. No,

888
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: because even.

889
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 4: They know they're evil people, and you know, really evil people.

890
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: Think about it with Trump in twenty sixteen, he was

891
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: the aberration right, and people could have some false narrative

892
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: about way Obama and all the people around him were heroes.

893
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, you've seen Meta and all these

894
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: other companies be like, oh wait, we actually live in

895
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: Trump's America. He won the popular vote. Why would you

896
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: go out and hire all of these fake ex Biden

897
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: folks who not only perpetrated the crime of his foreign

898
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: policy and others, but really just like domestically covered up

899
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: his age, you know, for so long. I just don't

900
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: think they have any credibility in the same way. I

901
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 1: could be wrong.

902
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 4: I hope you're right.

903
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: There's still so much commitment among bipartisan elites to the

904
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 2: you know, to stand strong with Israel and all that stuff.

905
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: And I mean that's what Tony Blanket is most associated with.

906
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: I think at this point, I don't know. I don't know,

907
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 2: but I hope you're right about that because I genuinely think,

908
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 2: like I watched his whole his whole exit interview Tony

909
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: Blinkens with the New York Times, and I just you know,

910
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: he I truly think, and I don't say this a

911
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: lot about a lot of people.

912
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 4: This is an evil individual.

913
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: Like the things that he perpetrated, the things that he

914
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: still you know, will cover up and lie about. It's

915
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 2: just absolutely astonishing. But to get back here to Biden,

916
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: let's go out and put b three up on the screen.

917
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: This New York Times tear sheet that just had some

918
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: of the details about how little he talked to the press.

919
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 2: Their headline is this is based on the USA Today

920
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: interview of Applied Technologies he's might not have been able

921
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: to serve four more years, which is crazy, but anyway

922
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: they write in this the interview with USA Today just

923
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: demonstrated how the White House tried to shield him from

924
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: encounters that might throw him off after four years in office.

925
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: It was the first time he's ever given an interview

926
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: to any reporter from any major mainstream newspaper. Unlike any

927
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: president in generations, he has never given one while in

928
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: office to reporters from newspapers like the Wall Street Journal,

929
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: the Washington Post, the LA Times, the Financial Times, or

930
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: the New York Times. Overall, mister Biden has given fewer

931
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: interviews of any kind and conducted fewer news conferences than

932
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: any president in decades. So in the modern era, fewer

933
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: news conferences, fewer interviews of any kind. He is at

934
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: the bottom of the list for all presidents in the

935
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: modern era. And again these are all things like the

936
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: New York Times would have been keenly aware of the

937
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: fact that they had no access to this man, that

938
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 2: they had never gotten in interview with this man. Remember

939
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: when we covered his decision not to do the interview

940
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: at the Super Bowl. You know which if you think

941
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: that this is a person who is remotely coherent, reliably coherent,

942
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: then that decision makes absolutely no sense. And you know,

943
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: people who were raising red flags about this were just dismissed,

944
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 2: like that was such a tell, the fact that he

945
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: would not get in front of the press, would not

946
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: do a single interview with a single major mainstream newspaper,

947
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: and you thought this guy was fine, Like, it really

948
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: is astonishing, It really is astonishing.

949
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still don't know how it took that much

950
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: of a genius to point out and be like, hey,

951
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: it's pretty weird not to do these interviews. It's pretty weird.

952
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: How you know, you have all these incidents, what was

953
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: it whenever you like went wandering off into the wandering

954
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 1: off the parachute guy. I mean, there was a fake.

955
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a cheap fake. It just never

956
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: ends with them. So look, I hope that their credibilities

957
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: are raised. America certainly seems to think so Biden is

958
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: a joke and will be remembered as such. But you know,

959
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: in terms of the media scandal and all that, I

960
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: think that's probably the real story. And I honestly don't

961
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: know how they're going to recover from it because there's

962
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: so many people who just think that they'll never believe

963
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: any of this stuff again. Again, I could be totally wrong,

964
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: but you know, seeing the way that Mark Zuckerberg and

965
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: all these other people like Legacy Media and others, even

966
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: the people they relied on to pressure are like, no,

967
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: the emperor has no clothes now at this point. So

968
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: I think their power significantly diminished. Although with Trump, because

969
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: he himself also loves the legacy media in his own way,

970
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: he certainly could empower them.

971
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 2: Again, I think their power is diminished because there has

972
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 2: been a liberal reckoning with theirs as well, because that's

973
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: what was what was causing them to remain with the

974
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 2: level of power that they had, is that they had

975
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: so much control in the Democratic Party, and I think

976
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: that has been significantly undercut.

977
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: You know.

978
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: If anything, I think historians will record an even war

979
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: scathing indictment of Joe Biden and even like people like

980
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: you and I have in our assessment because partly, I mean,

981
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 2: we'll see what trajectory the country goes on, but if

982
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: it's very possible that we look back at the Biden

983
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: era and really see it as this like you know,

984
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: pathetic gasp of a dying empire that you would put

985
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: this old feeble man in charge, and that he would

986
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: think that he was up to the job of running

987
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: for reelection again, and that the entire press corps would

988
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: either delude themselves or actively participate in a cover up.

989
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: And you know, the the decisions with regard to Ukraine

990
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: and then the decisions with regard to you know, being

991
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: complicit in this this Gaza genocide.

992
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 4: It really has ended.

993
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: I mean that was that was the ending of the

994
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: international rules base there, the order that was set up

995
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: post World War two govern govern international relations and create

996
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: some sort of stability and some sort of framework outside

997
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 2: of if I can, I will and might makes right done,

998
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: gone over.

999
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 4: And it's Joe.

1000
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: Biden who supposedly's primary political commitment was to like restoring

1001
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: that order and rebuilding that order and giving that order

1002
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 2: more strength. Instead, he put the final nail in the coffin.

1003
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: So you know, uh, history will be able to look

1004
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: back and record what the fallout is from the end

1005
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 2: of ultimately that order.

1006
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. At the same time, and signs of

1007
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: the vibe shift that is currently happening here, some major

1008
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: Democrats are joining with Republicans to pass the Laken Riley

1009
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: Act who large largely led by some of the new

1010
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,479
Speaker 1: Democrats in the United States Senate and in Congress, people

1011
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: like Reuben Diego and others. But Senator John Fetterman, who

1012
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: represents the state of Pennsylvania, which Donald Trump, of course

1013
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: one took to Fox News to actually push for the bill.

1014
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: Let's take a.

1015
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 10: Listen, like it's really common sense. And I'd like to

1016
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 10: remind everybody that we have hundreds and hundreds of thousands

1017
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 10: of migrants here illegally that have convicted of crimes. And

1018
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 10: I don't know why who wants to defend to allow

1019
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 10: them to remain in our nation. There that and now

1020
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 10: if you're here illegally and you're committing crimes and those things,

1021
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 10: I don't know why anybody thinks that it's controversial that

1022
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 10: they all need to go.

1023
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: Do you think that this was one of, if not

1024
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: the biggest issue for this.

1025
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 10: Election, Well, I think if we can't. You know, there's

1026
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 10: forty seven of us in the Senate, and if we

1027
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 10: can't pull up with with seven votes, if we can't

1028
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 10: get at least seven out of forty seven, and if

1029
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 10: we can't, then that's the reason why we lost. That's

1030
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 10: one of them. That's one of why we lost.

1031
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: In part vibes are shifting. That was Senator John Feeder. Well,

1032
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: I guess not with him, but with the with the

1033
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: other ones.

1034
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 4: I mean over longer trajectory.

1035
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 2: Certainly his own wife came to this country as an

1036
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 2: undocumented immigrant.

1037
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 4: Ye, that's something that he used.

1038
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, exactly what.

1039
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: His progressupposed progressive bona fides. So yes he has. I

1040
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: mean he's done a total one to eighty. But in

1041
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: the near term, this is part of the course.

1042
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: Is part of the course for him in the near term.

1043
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: You're right in terms of the long term. But I

1044
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: think really where it indicates the most to me are

1045
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: people like Alyssa slock In Ruben Diego. Ruben Diego, the

1046
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: newly elected senator from Arizona, is actually co sponsoring the bill.

1047
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: Let's put the bill up there on the screen. So

1048
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: obviously the House of Representatives, which is controlled by the Republicans,

1049
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: was able to pass the bill and send it to

1050
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: the United States Senate. Can we put this c two

1051
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: please now from this Actually, what's interesting is that a

1052
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: couple of Democrats from the House of Representatives did join

1053
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: them in passing.

1054
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: Forty eight Democrats who voted for it this time last time,

1055
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: because this is they tried to pass it last session

1056
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 2: as well.

1057
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 4: That was thirty seven Democrats.

1058
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: So there's been a number of new There's been eleven

1059
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: increase increase.

1060
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: Now, the question was always going to be in the Senate.

1061
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: So remember in the Senate that you need to cross

1062
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: the sixty vote threshold to be even able to debate

1063
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: the bill on the floor. That was the big question

1064
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 1: as to whether that was even going to be allowed.

1065
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: It does appear now that they do have the votes

1066
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: to actually advance this further. Now, keep in mind, this

1067
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the bill itself as written is going

1068
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: to pass. Let's put this up there on the screen.

1069
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: Senator Katie Britt, who's one of the sponsors of the bill,

1070
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 1: told Senate Republicans that she has the necessary eight votes

1071
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: to advance it over filibuster. Again, this is to be

1072
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: for consideration. Democrats are saying that they would like to

1073
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: amend certain parts of it, but the bill itself is

1074
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: actually I mean, in my opinions, well, I guess we

1075
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: could debate. It basically requires ice US Immigration and Customs

1076
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: Enforcement to take custody of I legal immigrants in the

1077
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: US without legal permission who have committed theft related crimes

1078
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: like shoplifting. Current US law says that the people who

1079
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: should be most prioritized for deportation are those convicted of

1080
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: a felony, but not necessarily of minor crimes. So the

1081
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 1: name of the bill is related to Lake and Riley,

1082
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,439
Speaker 1: who was of course killed earlier in twenty twenty four

1083
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: by a gentleman who was actually who had been arrested

1084
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: previously in a nearby apartment building. It appears after the

1085
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: commission of this horrible crime. So the point is is

1086
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,240
Speaker 1: that this is a vibe shift, quote unquote, and because

1087
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: this was a bill, as you said, Crystal, that previously

1088
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 1: had not achieved as much, had not achieved as much

1089
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: democratic support, but now actually does look like it is

1090
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: going to pass the United States Senate in some form.

1091
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: We're not exactly sure what form that is. Sure there'll

1092
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: be amendments and fights there, but the fact that it's

1093
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: even getting to the floor, I mean, this would be

1094
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: one of the most significant changes to ice enforcement policy

1095
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: in I think. I don't think policy on this has

1096
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: changed since the Obama era. Just to give people an idea,

1097
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump is not even the President of the

1098
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: United States yet and will be in some eleven days.

1099
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: So it's extraordinary the fact that its even go to

1100
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: the Center floor.

1101
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: So there's a political part of this bill, which is

1102
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: probably probably the most significant part, and then there's the

1103
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: actual impact of the legislation as far as migrating of

1104
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 2: the bill, the most significant impact is that it shifts

1105
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 2: the balance of power in terms of immigration enforcement towards

1106
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: the states. So it provides the states with the mechanism

1107
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: to sue the federal government if they feel that they're

1108
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: not enforcing immigrant law as it exists now. Of course,

1109
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 2: as with any law, there's a lot of sort of

1110
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: prosecutorial discretion. This is what Obama famously made use of

1111
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: in Dhaka in terms of which immigrants you're going to

1112
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: undocumented immigrants you're going to prioritize for detention and for deportation.

1113
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: So it hands states like Texas, for example, a weapon

1114
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: to use against the federal government. And I have a

1115
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 2: feeling that that will probably be the most significant, lasting

1116
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 2: impact ultimately of this legislation. And you know, the way

1117
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: that I look at this from a political perspective, the

1118
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 2: obviously the name is very evocative, you know, very intentionally

1119
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: chose Lake and Riley Act. This is part of the

1120
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: Trump and Republican narrative about what is ailing the country.

1121
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 2: Right in the Trumpian frame, one of the biggest problems

1122
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: is immigrants who are stealing your jobs, committing crimes, et cetera,

1123
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: et cetera. Obviously, this is not a frame I agree with.

1124
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 2: This is their frame. And so what I find most

1125
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 2: significant about this is, uh, this is effectively Democrats validating

1126
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: that frame. Now, they had already done this before the election.

1127
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: You know, they did their whole bipartisan border bill, which

1128
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: you know Sager wanted to see it go further, but

1129
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: I don't think you would disagree that it was a

1130
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 2: break from the traditional in the the you know, past

1131
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 2: couple of decades democratic approach which tied more border enforcement

1132
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 2: with legal pathways to citizenship. That bill said we're ditching

1133
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: the you know, pathways citizenship part and we're just doing

1134
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 2: the hawkish border enforcement. So in some ways they had

1135
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 2: already validated the Republican view and frame of the world.

1136
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: But this is another step in that direction, you know,

1137
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 2: and another indication that that will be a primary Democratic

1138
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: reaction to the Trump era. And this is effectively what

1139
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 2: I expected. You know, I think that we are most

1140
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: likely to see from the Democratic Party a replay of

1141
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: kind of what Bill Clinton was able to success from

1142
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 2: his perspective, accomplish when he came into office, which is,

1143
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 2: rather than trying to rekindle the New Deal or rekindle

1144
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, an oppositional framework to the Reagan era or

1145
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: the neoliberal era, instead, I'm going to embrace the core

1146
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 2: tenants of that. I'm going to you know, do a

1147
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 2: democratic version of that. And in some ways his version

1148
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 2: was even more far reaching because he had this Democratic

1149
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: brand behind him and you know, for him personally it

1150
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 2: was electorally successful. It ultimately led to devastating Democratic losses

1151
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: in rural areas and you know, the situation that they

1152
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 2: find themselves in today, but it was for him electorally successful,

1153
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, this is an indication that

1154
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: that is effectively the direction the Democrats are going to go,

1155
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: and they're going to embrace more or less the Trumpian

1156
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: frame of the world there do their own sort of

1157
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 2: like you know, potentially kinder, gentler version of it. And

1158
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: the era of you know, total Trump resistance, the era

1159
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 2: of trying to articulate competing view of the world, that

1160
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 2: era likely is passed. Now this will all shake out

1161
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: in terms of the Democratic primary in you know, the

1162
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 2: next presidential election. I'm sure there will be a fight

1163
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 2: amongst the factions and how they want to respond to

1164
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 2: the rise of trump Ism. But you know, so far,

1165
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: this is where the bulk of the momentum is within

1166
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party and with their aligned media class, which

1167
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: is almost as important and as significant here.

1168
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 4: And that's why the.

1169
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 2: Zuckerberg News and you know, Elon controlling Twitter, and the

1170
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 2: LA Times doing what they're doing, and the Bezos owned

1171
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: wash imposts doing what they're doing, and all the social

1172
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 2: media giants effectively lining up to kiss the ring with

1173
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. That means that, you know, the media ecosystem

1174
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 2: is also aligned very much with what you describe as

1175
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: a vibe shift.

1176
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: That's part of what But I just can't get away from.

1177
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: What else are you supposed to do Trump won the election.

1178
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: What argument are you going to make people whose shoplift

1179
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: to are here illegally should be in the country. That's crazy.

1180
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: I just don't think anybody can agree with that. In

1181
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: the past, they always fake it. They're like, oh well,

1182
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: we just it's cruel or whatever, and then they'll focus

1183
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: on child separations if it has anything to do with

1184
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: a guy who murdered Lake and Riley previously have been

1185
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: arrested for theft in the state of New York and

1186
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: some other thing eventually was released, goes on to murder her.

1187
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm just think this is an indefensible policy, Like, if anything,

1188
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: this has just revealed, like the veneer of how the

1189
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: architecture of like all this language the people basically use

1190
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: to justify tens of millions of people coming here illegally,

1191
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: and when people vote for a popular mandate for somebody

1192
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: who has now won the popular vote who explicitly ran

1193
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: on mass deportation, Like, I just have no idea what

1194
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: counter argument you're supposed to make if you're a democratic politician.

1195
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: I mean, Reuben Diego was literally elected with the counter

1196
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: argument to carry Lake by saying, I'm the serious person

1197
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: who will help Donald Trump. I mean, in a certain sense,

1198
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: there is a democratic argument here to be made of,

1199
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: Like this is genuinely what people want. And I look,

1200
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: people have made the immigrant argument, they illegal immigrant argument

1201
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: now for twenty five years, and I think people have

1202
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: rejected it correctly. In my opinion, I'm going to talk

1203
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: a lot about this in my monologue, but if you

1204
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: really understand, like the way, I mean, look at California

1205
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: what it is right now, because anyone says is a

1206
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: well run state, part of it is is that they

1207
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: focus on bullshit like passing sanctuary city laws which say

1208
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: that they're not going to cooperate with ICE. I mean,

1209
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: this is now. This was like an in vogue policy

1210
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: for what twenty twelve, twy probably twenty nineteen or so,

1211
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: and I think you just have a devastating consequences. A

1212
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: lot of these people came to I could bite them

1213
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: in the ass because Republicans smartly just shipped a bunch

1214
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: of them to these cities and they're like, okay, you

1215
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: deal with it. And then, of course what happened the

1216
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: population was like, oh my god, we can't deal with this.

1217
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: This is crazy. You know, in a sense, you kind

1218
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: of reap what you sew. So, I mean, I just

1219
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: don't think it's an argument. I think it's a reality problem.

1220
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: Biden changed the status quo more than any president in

1221
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: modern American history. Let ten million people illegally into the country.

1222
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: Of course, the argument is going to change, and the

1223
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: reaction of the people is just so extraordinary when you

1224
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: look at the data. So I just when I see this,

1225
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: the Democrats have no choice Otherwise, what are they going

1226
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: to say, Yes, people who are here illegally shoplift shouldn't

1227
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: be deported. Good luck. I mean, I just have no

1228
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: idea how you can make better.

1229
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 4: I think this bill.

1230
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 2: There's no doubt this bill would be very difficult for

1231
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 2: them to pose for exactly the like rhetorical reasons you're

1232
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 2: laying out. But why I'm saying that it validates the

1233
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 2: Republican frame is because Republicans like to seize on crimes

1234
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: like the horrific murder of lacoln Riley's truly a whrror,

1235
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 2: and try to paint all immigrants, all undocumented.

1236
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 4: That like they are.

1237
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: Of course it's true, like they're dispropertionally criminal. Okay, this

1238
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: is the same thing that like Elon Musk is doing

1239
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 2: in the context of the UK with the quote unquote

1240
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 2: grooming gangs, when of course you know the statistics. I

1241
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 2: know the statistics undocumented immigrants and legal immigrants are more liable,

1242
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: law abiding than US born citizens. So I don't deny

1243
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: that this would be a tough bill for Democrats to oppose,

1244
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 2: given the election results, given where the public is on

1245
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 2: this issue, et cetera. But I also don't think it's

1246
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 2: quite as one dimensional as you portray it, because on

1247
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: this issue, like on many issues, but I think this one,

1248
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: maybe in particular, what you get from the public really

1249
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 2: depends on how you ask the question. So still, if

1250
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 2: you ask the public, are immigrants a net benefit to society,

1251
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 2: they say yes. Still, if you ask the public, you know,

1252
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 2: should there be a pathway to citizenship for people who

1253
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 2: are here who are undocumented, the answer is yes. So

1254
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,919
Speaker 2: there is in fact a broader zooming out from this bill,

1255
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 2: a broader case to be made that is, yeah, of

1256
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: course we should know who's coming into the country. Of

1257
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 2: course there should be, you know, a border secure that

1258
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 2: we can make sure that people who are criminals are

1259
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 2: not coming in willy nilly, etcetera, etc. But immigrants are

1260
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 2: a net benefit to the country, and the problems that

1261
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 2: we have are not about immigrants. The problems we have

1262
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 2: are massive income inequality fueled by a billionaire class who

1263
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 2: has rigged the rules to their benefit. And you know,

1264
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 2: we see that playing out right now in LA with

1265
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: this climate fueled catastrophe.

1266
01:02:58,400 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 4: You see it.

1267
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 2: Playing out in you know, the Elon Musk taking control

1268
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: of the government and like ushering in an era of

1269
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 2: just brazen oligarchy and using the government as his tool

1270
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 2: so that he can make as much money as he

1271
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 2: possibly can in China and get the AI rules and

1272
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 2: whatever written to benefit him, et cetera. That to me,

1273
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 2: that's my view of what are the biggest challenges in

1274
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 2: the country. And yeah, of course when you have a

1275
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: lot of new people coming here, especially when you have

1276
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: you know, a system that is truly archaic.

1277
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 4: That means that you know, you.

1278
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 2: Can exploit it by saying I have an asylum case

1279
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 2: and then it's going to be years before it's adjudicated.

1280
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 2: In the meantime, you can just be here in the country. Like, Yes,

1281
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: those are all problems that need to be dealt with.

1282
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: Is it the central issue that is causing people to

1283
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 2: struggle with housing costs, with low wages, with you know,

1284
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 2: low union density, with so little power in terms of

1285
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 2: their democracy and in terms of in their work lives.

1286
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 4: No, I don't think it's the central.

1287
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: See that's why I just totally disagree. I think it's

1288
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: a massive impact. I mean again, is basic supplying demand.

1289
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: You let thirty million people in the country illegally over

1290
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: forty year period, and then you're shocked whenever prices go

1291
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 1: up and wages go down. This is I mean again,

1292
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: like the argument is what they consume and through the

1293
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: black market economy and through their fake GDP consumption that

1294
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: they were all supposedly better off. That is the same

1295
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: neoliberal arguments.

1296
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: Just there's just not evidence for what you're arguing. You've

1297
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 2: been asking the maurial boat when you had a huge

1298
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: influx of Cuban immigrants into the state of Florida. That's

1299
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 2: as close to a natural experiment as you could possibly

1300
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 2: have and the impacts were minimal, if any, according to

1301
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 2: like the entire body of research that was done on

1302
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 2: that particular event. So no, I do think immigrants overall

1303
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 2: are a net benefit to the country. I think they

1304
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 2: are a huge part of what has made this country great.

1305
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 2: And you know, I just reject the idea that the

1306
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 2: fingers should be pointed at them rather than pointed up

1307
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: at you know, the people who have created the laws,

1308
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 2: created the system, will run the country, who run our politics,

1309
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 2: who are screwing workers and lowering weight. Is like the

1310
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 2: corporate bosses are the ones here.

1311
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: The corporate bosses are the ones union. The corporate bosses

1312
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: are the people who love illegal immigration. I'm going to

1313
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: My entire monologue is about how Elon Musk and all

1314
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: these other people explicitly like low wage labor of which

1315
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: has no legal recourse, specifically because they can chain them

1316
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: in order to well, that's create more profits.

1317
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 2: And I agree with you on that on when you

1318
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 2: talk about a guest worker program where people's labor, like

1319
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 2: their immigration status is directly tied to their employer, like,

1320
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: that is an inherently exploitive situation. But that doesn't mean

1321
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: that there isn't a way to do immigration that you know,

1322
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 2: eliminates those sort of exploitative, abusive behaviors and you know,

1323
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 2: make sure that wages aren't being undercut for the people

1324
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 2: who are here. You can trust in the history of immigration, yes.

1325
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: But the history of immigration policy in the country has

1326
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: been legalization. And then maybe we'll get to wages late.

1327
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: Oh oops, forgot to get to that one, Ronald Reagan.

1328
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: That's the reality. People have no trust and they shouldn't.

1329
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: I think that if you look at it right now,

1330
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: there's a mass movement basically against at the very least

1331
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: current illegal immigration. And you know, a lot of these

1332
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: questions are outdated too. Should you have a pathway to

1333
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: citizenship for who? For the ten million who came in

1334
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: four years ago, for the twenty million who preceded them

1335
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: from Mexico, from Haiti, which ones you know, Cuba, etc.

1336
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 1: I mean there's are each one, and that's another problem

1337
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: immigrant that means nothing there. I have nothing in common

1338
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: with somebody who came here illegally two years ago, or

1339
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: my parents have nothing in common with somebody who came

1340
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: here illegally two years ago, who doesn't even have a

1341
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: basic high school diploma and can barely speak Spanish, let

1342
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 1: alone English. This term is meaningless, which is why you

1343
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: need skills based, high points immigration system like they have

1344
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: in the entire Western world. But move away from that

1345
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 1: when you actually look at the basics of this demographic change,

1346
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 1: strain on the American character, on the American welfare system. Yes, absolutely.

1347
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I don't know why these terms are

1348
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: such like taboos when Donald Trump just got reelectric press.

1349
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: Is being a nation of immigrants, that is the American

1350
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 2: character to That's why you're here, That's why I'm here

1351
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 2: to go back even further. That is what built the

1352
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 2: American character. That's what makes America so interesting. That's one

1353
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 2: of the things that that's one of the things that

1354
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 2: is most like when I feel pride in this country,

1355
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: it's when I watch things like the Olympics and you

1356
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 2: see this incredible rainbow of people from all of the

1357
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 2: world who have come together in this country and have made.

1358
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 4: It what it is.

1359
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 2: That's part of what makes it so different from Europe

1360
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: or that you do have more of this like you know,

1361
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,959
Speaker 2: ethnic based, blood and soil type of ingrained nationality. That's

1362
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: never been what we are about. And that's what has

1363
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 2: made this country so innovative, so dynamic, and given it.

1364
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 4: Its best character and quality.

1365
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: So I don't know why at a time when you

1366
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 2: know a lot of the parts of this country are

1367
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 2: sort of like crumbling and lacking in dynamism, why you

1368
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 2: want to close the door to the thing that has.

1369
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: Because the people who are coming here, the people who

1370
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: are majority coming here, are low skilled. Now, I mean, look,

1371
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: you talk about the American character, do you think part

1372
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: of the American character should be speaking English? Yeah, I

1373
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: think so it should be you'd be like educated and

1374
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: not a net loss on the economy. Yes, I think

1375
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 1: so these are all like basic questions, have nothing to

1376
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: do with race, nothing to do with blood and soil

1377
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: or any of this other stuff. And again I would say,

1378
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, America has not always been just vast open

1379
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 1: door to everybody. Who've had several periods in our history,

1380
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: correctly in my opinion, where we did shut the door

1381
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: for a long time. There's a reason they shut the

1382
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 1: door in the nineteen hundreds because we were basic.

1383
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 2: Gennis Eugenics was popular, and it was the bil Kraft

1384
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 2: Are you literally eugenicis?

1385
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 11: I mean?

1386
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: Christal? The reason that you're considered white quote unquote is

1387
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: because of that. At the if we had continued to

1388
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: allow that, I don't know what your heritage is, you

1389
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: would have been Scottish, American or whatever. I don't want

1390
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: to live in hyphenated America in the famous Teddy Roosevelt quote,

1391
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: which was the case, by the way, at the time.

1392
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: The idea that Irish people were white is a very

1393
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: modern concept that only happened because we allowed a period.

1394
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 2: My goal isn't to like increase the number of people

1395
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 2: in the country who are deemed white, So not.

1396
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: Sure what point. Their goal is to make sure that

1397
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,759
Speaker 1: people don't identify with being Venezuela and American, Indian American,

1398
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: Pakistani American and just say I call myself.

1399
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 4: That That just happens naturally.

1400
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: No, No, but it's not it's a literal government policy

1401
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: of shutting things down. No, you can actually look it's

1402
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: very simple.

1403
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 2: Look at the number of Latinos who migrated here a

1404
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 2: generation or two generations ago.

1405
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 4: They just consider themselves.

1406
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 2: Like Textans, and it took a long they're voting for

1407
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 2: Donald Trump and associated with the Republican Party. It didn't

1408
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 2: take a long time. It takes usually like one generation

1409
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: long time. And this happens naturally. And no, it wasn't

1410
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: an official government policy. This is just what happens when

1411
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 2: you live in a country, and you live in a place,

1412
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 2: and you go to the local schools and you assimilate

1413
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 2: into the nation. That's been the story of our entire history,

1414
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 2: whether it was Irish immigrants, or Italian immigrants, or Germans

1415
01:09:55,640 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 2: or Polish immigrants or now Mexican immigrants that is just

1416
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 2: or Indian American immigrants, right like that is just the

1417
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 2: natural flow of how things happen when you come and

1418
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 2: you live in the country and you and.

1419
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 1: By it, I think you're calling it natural when it

1420
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: was an intentional government choice to immediately shut down immigration

1421
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: for a forty year period to encourage in sibilation the period.

1422
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 1: The point that you're making about Latinos is exactly what

1423
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: I mean, quote unquote white Hispanic fake term that they

1424
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: created for themselves. I don't care, that's fine, but it

1425
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: took forty fifty years of the Chicano Texican whatever identity

1426
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,599
Speaker 1: to be created, and the fact that those people also

1427
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,440
Speaker 1: voted for Donald Trump. That happened to shut down immigration,

1428
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:34,600
Speaker 1: But it's pretty.

1429
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 2: Happen as a result of intentional government policy. When the

1430
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 2: government policy you're talking about ended what.

1431
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 4: In the eighties.

1432
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: What I'm talking about specific well, first, I'm using the

1433
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds example. That was an intentional government policy to

1434
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 1: specifically encourage assimilation, which I think is good. Second, around

1435
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: the Texicano or whatever, the Chicano to Texican whatever, white

1436
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: Hispanic identity it was. Yeah, it's a long one, but

1437
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: it's also not just recent arrivals. A lot of those

1438
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: people have been there for hundreds of years.

1439
01:10:59,320 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 4: Sure.

1440
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: Beyond that comes to this question of the people who

1441
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 1: are coming here, don't speak English, don't have any education.

1442
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 1: In a service based economy that is not industrialized anymore.

1443
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 1: We do not need Irish and Scotsman and Slovenians to

1444
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: shovel coal into a fire anymore. We need people who

1445
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: have language skills, are highly educated people who are not

1446
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: not let net loss on the economy. If anything, our

1447
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: low wage work, if you look at the wages and

1448
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,919
Speaker 1: all that has been depressed significantly because of illegal immigration,

1449
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: no evidence that. Okay, well again if I will, as

1450
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: you can see in my natural H one B experiment, Yes,

1451
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 1: it is true that Goldman, Sachs and others people who

1452
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: have been quote unquote unable to find that. However, Harvard Universities,

1453
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: George Waras, who again I've cited many times from twenty

1454
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: seventeen as significant evidence on that. So we can debate

1455
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 1: the studies or whatever if you want. All of the

1456
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,640
Speaker 1: reliance on immigration is good for America. It says that

1457
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 1: it increases GDP because they buy stuff that is just

1458
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: completely ridiculous. And America, as I said, has seen through it.

1459
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: They have voted for a person who had a sign

1460
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 1: behind him that said one thing massed deportation. I just

1461
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: don't see at this point how the argument cannot be.

1462
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, in a sense you're almost saying it in

1463
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: a way, you're like, yeah, we have to control the border,

1464
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: we need this, we need that, and we can have

1465
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 1: debates over the levels of immigration. But if you see

1466
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: right now, the vast preference and the median of where

1467
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 1: things are is significantly away from where the Democratic policy was,

1468
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: which is a wide open door, let anybody in, have

1469
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 1: no enforcement. No, it is true. It's true out of

1470
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: ten million people arrived here.

1471
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:39,799
Speaker 2: People get supported under Joe, But how many people.

1472
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 4: Got sported under Barack Obama?

1473
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: Joe Biden actually deported more people than Donald Trump when

1474
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 2: he was in Austine.

1475
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:48,759
Speaker 4: Now, you're right different.

1476
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 2: But it's not like any of these people have ever

1477
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 2: been open borders. There's not a single member of Congress

1478
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 2: who supports an open border policy. So don't care, don't

1479
01:12:59,080 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 2: caricature it.

1480
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 4: That's all I'm asking.

1481
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 1: Eighty and million people come here legally, and what two

1482
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: percent or whatever get deported? What do you think that

1483
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 1: means ninety eight percent of the people who arrived.

1484
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 2: But Zager, my point is we should know. But I

1485
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: think the question isn't should we control the border. Of

1486
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 2: course we should. The question is how many people can

1487
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 2: the country accept what is beneficial for the nation, And

1488
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 2: I just don't agree with your arguments that.

1489
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 4: That number zero.

1490
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't agree.

1491
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 2: I don't fetishize this like everyone must assimilate immediately.

1492
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 4: It is a process that happens naturally over time.

1493
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 2: I do think that immigrants, even you know, people who

1494
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 2: come here not speaking the language and not having a

1495
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:39,719
Speaker 2: you know, Ivy League.

1496
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 4: Education, that they're beneficial.

1497
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 2: That they're beneficial to the country, and that is what

1498
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 2: the overwhelming bulk of the research shows. So should they

1499
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,720
Speaker 2: come in here in these like exploitative H one B

1500
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 2: processes that ties them to employer No, of course not,

1501
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 2: and that does undercut that is exploited to them and

1502
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 2: does undercut the workers that they're competing with in that industry,

1503
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 2: as we've seen with these tech layout. But if you

1504
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 2: look more broadly at the immigration system, yes, they've been

1505
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 2: a net benefit. I think you and your family have

1506
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:06,680
Speaker 2: been a net benefit to the country. I'm glad you're

1507
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 2: here at Thoer.

1508
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But the point is, and this is

1509
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: why I personally find it offensive. I don't want to

1510
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: be looped in with somebody who doesn't have a not

1511
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:16,440
Speaker 1: because I have nothing.

1512
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 4: Being that's the only thing that potentially.

1513
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: We're both humans and we should be evaluated as.

1514
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 2: Our individuals realize their capability and in this.

1515
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: Bay, do that in Guatemala or Venezuela or else, And

1516
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: oftentimes reason they can't is because of the way that

1517
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 1: we've sanctioned and screwed those countries. Is just too Again,

1518
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: if we're going to argument that policies from the nineteen

1519
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: eighties or now, not.

1520
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 2: The nineteen eighties, when did we stop intervening in Haiti?

1521
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 1: Uh?

1522
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 2: Well, we're doing it right now, all right, So when

1523
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 2: we stop thanking a we're.

1524
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:48,679
Speaker 4: Doing it right now.

1525
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about back you know, in Ronald Reagan

1526
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 2: or under Dwight Eisenhower, whatever, I'm talking about literally right now.

1527
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 2: But even putting that aside, we should be glad that

1528
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 2: people want to come to this country.

1529
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice, our fortunate doesn't they get to come.

1530
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 2: And the same people who are out here obsessing about

1531
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:04,600
Speaker 2: the birth rate declining and oh my god, this is

1532
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 2: going to be then to the civilization are the same

1533
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 2: ones who want to close the door to people who

1534
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,640
Speaker 2: want who want to come here. Who you know, it

1535
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 2: is a problem if a country has a low birth

1536
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 2: rate and you know, you don't have a productive workforsus.

1537
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 2: So we're lucky that we have people who want to

1538
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 2: come here. And you know, I think that the Democratic

1539
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 2: Party should be making that argument. I think there should

1540
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 2: be an oppositional view. And you know, yes, immigration was

1541
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 2: an important part of thish of this election. I don't

1542
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 2: think anyone could possibly deny that, But there was no

1543
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 2: one making the counter case. The Democrats have been making

1544
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: that countercase for years at this point. They have not

1545
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 2: made that countercase for years at this point. And you

1546
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 2: know that's I think that that has been already a

1547
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 2: political disaster for them. It certainly did not help them

1548
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 2: in the context of this election. And I just also

1549
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 2: happen to think it's wrong. So no, when I have

1550
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 2: principles in something I view as correct, even if it

1551
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 2: is on the wrong side of public opinion, that doesn't

1552
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 2: mean I'm just going to like abandoned those principles and

1553
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 2: stop making that case.

1554
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 4: But that is what you're acting.

1555
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that electorally, if you want to

1556
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: win election, I wouldn't run on that And I think

1557
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: that's important. I think the will of the people here

1558
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: actually matters.

1559
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 2: Now, Jo Biden did run on that in twenty twenty.

1560
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,800
Speaker 2: He did run on that alternative view, and he was successful.

1561
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:18,640
Speaker 1: So I mean, are we really going to say he

1562
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: won because immigration, like.

1563
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 4: That's just well, it didn't cause him to lose. It

1564
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 4: wasn't you know.

1565
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 2: And Trump was certainly making the opposite case and it

1566
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 2: didn't cause him to lose. And in fact, the last

1567
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 2: time Trump was in office was when we had some

1568
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 2: of the highest supports in history for increasing the amount

1569
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 2: of legal immigration. So you know, yeah, maybe people feel

1570
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 2: a certain way right now. People's views are complex, they're

1571
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 2: not ideological in the way that we are. And even

1572
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 2: on this issue at this moment in time, polls showed

1573
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 2: their views continue to be complex. They continue to value

1574
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 2: immigrants as a part of the country. They continue to

1575
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,719
Speaker 2: believe that they bring more positive than negative to this country.

1576
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think there is an opportunity to make

1577
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 2: an alternative case about the benefits of you know, net

1578
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 2: positive migration done the right way. I just think Democrats

1579
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:09,879
Speaker 2: have decided that they are not going.

1580
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,760
Speaker 1: To make that argument can only be made when there's

1581
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:16,639
Speaker 1: actually secure law enforcement at the border. When people here

1582
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 1: are illegally who for example, who murder a girl named

1583
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: Lake and Riley get you know, maybe deported befohen they're

1584
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: arrested here before they can commit a crime like that.

1585
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: And look, I mean, just to return to the core

1586
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: of illegal immigrant crime, the reason why it get to

1587
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 1: focus is they're not supposed to be here. The point

1588
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: is is that it's a crime that was never supposed

1589
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: to happen, in actual preventative crime as opposed to a

1590
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 1: natural born US citizen when the way that we adjudicate

1591
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: and look at that. So even this whole talking point

1592
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 1: about oh they commit less crime, first of all, no

1593
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 1: one even knows that's true. I can't even tell you

1594
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: the number of people who are here illegally. So how

1595
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 1: are you supposed to compute like proper crime statistics. If

1596
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 1: you look at states, many of them don't even say

1597
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: the immigration status, etc. All of this is anecdotal. So

1598
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: the true status basically doesn't exist at a philosophical level.

1599
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: Whenever something happens that was supposed to be prevented, and

1600
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 1: then it does happen, you can't say, well, oh it's fine,

1601
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: because even though it's supposed to be preventable, that there's

1602
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: all these other reasons why it's okay. People naturally understand that.

1603
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 1: That's why they look at the fire hydrant thing that

1604
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: we talked about today, or with illegal immigration crime, that's

1605
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 1: the reason it's in a special and a different class

1606
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: than people were here naturally US or legal US citizen.

1607
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: There was an actual process. So that's where I would

1608
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: say on that one. But if you want to propose

1609
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:33,720
Speaker 1: the views that you're proposing, it only works, as it

1610
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: has in the past, when there is order and a

1611
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 1: sense that this is something that is being used to

1612
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 1: the benefit of the country. The H one B process,

1613
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: which I'm talking about today, it passed in nineteen ninety three.

1614
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: What was happening in nineteen ninety three not a bunch

1615
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 1: of mass illegal immigration. There was a big question about

1616
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 1: the dot com boom. They had all this optimism about America.

1617
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 1: That's the nature of the country that you need to

1618
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 1: be able to pass something like that, or even if

1619
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:01,679
Speaker 1: you want, you know, one million people, I think that's crazy.

1620
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: But look, if you want to make that argument, fine,

1621
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:06,640
Speaker 1: you can do that if there's an orderly process, if

1622
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 1: you talk about the caps, if you feel as and

1623
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: people may even support it if they feel as if

1624
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: it can also be circumvented by big corporate interests and

1625
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 1: people coming here illegally under asylum law. It only works

1626
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 1: in one way. And the point is is that where

1627
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: we are right now, with the you know, complete chaos

1628
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: at the border, with lack of ice enforcement, with sanctuary

1629
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 1: cities and all this, it's impossible. And so in the

1630
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,799
Speaker 1: balance of all of that, I think that's why people

1631
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 1: ultimately just pull the red liver lever for Trump is

1632
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 1: they just felt like there was no choice with this

1633
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: completely uncontrolled system. And so look, I mean, this is

1634
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 1: step one. I think we'll see if they go along

1635
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: with some of the other stuff. My prediction is no,

1636
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 1: they start screeching any minute now. But you know, the

1637
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 1: point is is that when you when you don't have

1638
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 1: any of that and alrighty it's a titanic task to

1639
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: impose order and all of that at the border, you

1640
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 1: can't have any even of the discussion that we're having here.

1641
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's possibleocratically, especially because for them,

1642
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,479
Speaker 1: the chaos and the feel as if there is no

1643
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: controlled system of no even democratic will or say over

1644
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,560
Speaker 1: who or say it gets to come here. That is

1645
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,719
Speaker 1: lost in the vacuum of what we've had to have.

1646
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 2: More control at the border is to have more legal

1647
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,519
Speaker 2: pathways for people to come Okay, And the more that

1648
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 2: it's true, but it's true, the more that you try

1649
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 2: to just totally close the border, the more illegal. I mean,

1650
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 2: it's it's just like with with drug legalism. That's like

1651
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: the more you do, the more you're going to It's

1652
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 2: exactly what happened with prohibition. The more that you crack

1653
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 2: down and try to ban alcohol, the more criminal gang

1654
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: activity you ended up with. And it's the same thing

1655
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,280
Speaker 2: with the border. The more that you have it completely

1656
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 2: shut and absolutely impossible to come here if you have.

1657
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,720
Speaker 1: To, we're going to let foreigners determine level.

1658
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:53,840
Speaker 2: No, because it's hot, it's positive for the country. So

1659
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:55,799
Speaker 2: I do think that one of the things that people

1660
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 2: react strong to is the sense of chaos and like

1661
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 2: we don't have control. And one of the ways is

1662
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 2: to obtain to have actual control and be able to

1663
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 2: do this is to have more legal pathways for people

1664
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 2: to be able to come through here through an orderly process.

1665
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 2: No one wants to go with some like you know,

1666
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:16,600
Speaker 2: coyote and risk their lives, et cetera, et cetera. So

1667
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 2: if you have a legal pathway to do that, people

1668
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 2: will avail themselves of that and then guess what, you

1669
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 2: will know who's coming and be able to evaluate them

1670
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 2: in their criminals.

1671
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:24,600
Speaker 1: But I think the bad news is that if we

1672
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 1: do have a legal process, none of these people are

1673
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: going to be allowed in, like, you know, under any reasonable.

1674
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 4: What do you mean, none of these under any.

1675
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: Reasonable points based immigration system. People who are coming here

1676
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 1: with no English, with no high school diploma are not

1677
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 1: being let in for what job?

1678
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 2: Who said it has to be a points based system?

1679
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:41,640
Speaker 2: I didn't say that.

1680
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 1: Well, every western country in the world uses a points

1681
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 1: based immigration system except for the United States. So and

1682
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: even if you look under chain migration, the current existing

1683
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 1: ridiculous system that we have right now, a lot of

1684
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 1: these folks don't even qualify under the chain based status.

1685
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 1: So look, I mean, that's the truth is is that

1686
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: most of the people coming here and not going to

1687
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,720
Speaker 1: qualify under any real legal system. Part of the reason

1688
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 1: why I think, you know, to say, oh, if we

1689
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 1: have more legal pathways like, they may not like the

1690
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 1: results because the people who are the least skilled with

1691
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: the least connection of the country. They're not coming, there's

1692
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 1: no way for them to be able to qualify, and

1693
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:18,120
Speaker 1: they'll probably still try to get here illegally. That's why

1694
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: I just don't think we can use that argument of like, oh,

1695
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 1: they're going to come anyway. It's like, well, their willingness

1696
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 1: to come does not determine our law.

1697
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 2: We get to decide, sure, but the fact that we

1698
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 2: have it's so narrowly structured, But it's not where people

1699
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 2: have to come here illegally because there's no other there's

1700
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:34,759
Speaker 2: no other possible.

1701
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: A million people come here a year legally. That's just

1702
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 1: that's not true. I mean, under chain based immigration one

1703
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 1: hundred thousand per year.

1704
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:43,799
Speaker 4: It very much depends on where you're immigrating.

1705
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:44,839
Speaker 1: Yes, that's true.

1706
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 2: And so yeah, if you are from a certain country,

1707
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 2: you know it's going to be nearly impossible to come

1708
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,639
Speaker 2: through any sort of legal pathway. So in any case,

1709
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 2: just last piece on this on the democratic vibe shift

1710
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 2: and the way that they're coroaching the Trump administration so

1711
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 2: different than they did last time around. If we can

1712
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 2: put this last piece C five up on the screen

1713
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 2: from Chuck Schumer. He says he's going to work with

1714
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 2: Trump on renaming the Gulf of Mexico to America if

1715
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 2: he will work with Democrats on lowering costs. Okay, yeah,

1716
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 2: I won't hold my breath on that, but you know,

1717
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 2: it just does show the elites in the party have

1718
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 2: decided that capitulation to Trump. And during the Joe and

1719
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 2: Mega trip to mar A Lago, the Mark Zuckerberg hostage video,

1720
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 2: the Tim Cook million dollars to the Inauguration Fund, like,

1721
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 2: that's basically how the heads of the Democratic Party have

1722
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 2: decided to approach the Trump administration as well. So you know,

1723
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:43,599
Speaker 2: I think, well, this is what I expected after this election.

1724
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 2: I will say I did predict this direction, even though

1725
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 2: a lot of people found it far fetched at the time.

1726
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,719
Speaker 2: But here we are, and that's exactly what is currently happening,

1727
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 2: and I will see also America. I will say it's

1728
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 2: not that I don't think that this could potentially be

1729
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:04,640
Speaker 2: electorally successful, because Bill Clinton, right for himself, was electorally successful,

1730
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 2: even though he then went and presided over like massive

1731
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:10,799
Speaker 2: midterm losses, just like Barack Obama electorally successful for himself,

1732
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 2: massive devastation in terms of the wider Democratic parties so

1733
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 2: do I think they could pick up seats in the midterms,

1734
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 2: and do I think that they could potentially win back

1735
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 2: the presidency next time around?

1736
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 4: It's possible with this strategy.

1737
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 2: I just think it's, you know, effectively, what you're doing

1738
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 2: is ideologically ushering in just as Bill Clinton ushered in

1739
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 2: the neoliberal era, ideologically locking in the Trump era. And

1740
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 2: I think that's basically what many people in the party

1741
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 2: have decided to do.

1742
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:40,639
Speaker 1: I think. So I also think that people had something

1743
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: to do with that. But yeah, there is a theory.

1744
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,720
Speaker 1: I think it's uh, I think it's Julius Crime said this,

1745
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 1: that there's a theory of one party rule. Is an

1746
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 1: America is always under one party rule, they just don't

1747
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 1: know it, and those two parties operate within that. So

1748
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 1: under FDR and the New Deal, even if you look

1749
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: at Eisenhower, yeah he was a Republican. We proken a

1750
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:00,640
Speaker 1: New Deal, so we lived in a new for a

1751
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: long time. Then we lived in a Reagan era for

1752
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 1: a long time. I think Obama was like kind of

1753
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:05,720
Speaker 1: a bridge ish.

1754
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:09,760
Speaker 4: No, I don't mean he was pure neoliberal.

1755
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: Yes, but he also ushered something in which I still

1756
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: don't have the correct term yet to really think about,

1757
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: but he was, he had that, and Biden was like

1758
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:21,879
Speaker 1: a continuation of that. Trump one point zero was a signal,

1759
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 1: but it was not one that was really ready to

1760
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 1: take power obviously, as what happened during those four years,

1761
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: mostly because the elite saw him as completely illegitimate. But

1762
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 1: I do think that his actual election here with the

1763
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 1: popular vote is part of what changed everything. And now

1764
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 1: I do I mean, we will retroactively look at the

1765
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 1: Trump era as twenty eleven onward, but I think now

1766
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,519
Speaker 1: is when it really became sole locked in.

1767
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 2: I think so too, And I think I see Biden

1768
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 2: as like a Carter figure with a foot in both.

1769
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, straddle.

1770
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,880
Speaker 2: Transitional figure, which is part of why his presidency was

1771
01:25:56,920 --> 01:26:00,759
Speaker 2: such a catastrophe. But you know, he kept the tariffs

1772
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 2: with China, right, so there was a new direction. There

1773
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 2: was industrial policy, and then there was also you know,

1774
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 2: but it's still a lot of the neoliberal elements, et cetera.

1775
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 2: So he really was kind of, you know, buffeted by

1776
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 2: these forces. And I mean that's not to deny him

1777
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 2: his own agency for his catastrophic presidency ultimately, but I

1778
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 2: do think he kind of ends up being this transitional figure,

1779
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 2: and then when things will really be solidified is when

1780
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,839
Speaker 2: you have if you end up having a Democratic president

1781
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:35,719
Speaker 2: who fills that role of Bill Clinton, basically solidifying that

1782
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:39,759
Speaker 2: both parties are now operating under the same ideological framework.

1783
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:42,760
Speaker 4: Now what exactly that ideological framework is is.

1784
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 2: Significant question at this point, given that Elon Musk is

1785
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 2: oppositional to some elements of the way that trump Ism

1786
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,680
Speaker 2: has been sold to the public, which is part of

1787
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 2: what makes that fight so central and so ultimately interesting.

1788
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, I basically that's where we are in history.

1789
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:02,960
Speaker 2: As I said, I think it'll be a big fight

1790
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,600
Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty eight Democratic primary about whether or

1791
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 2: not the party does just sort of like embrace the

1792
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 2: Trumpian vision of the world, including this you know, anti

1793
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:17,679
Speaker 2: immigrant antipathy towards any net migration effectively direction.

1794
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 4: But all of that remains to be seen.

1795
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, the good news, I think for you is that

1796
01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 1: Donald Trump mostly at this point agrees with you. And

1797
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 1: if only if Stephen Miller a few others get their way,

1798
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:31,000
Speaker 1: will my view ever be represented here. But anyway, it

1799
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 1: is interesting. Nonetheless, let's get to Jeff Stein. He's got

1800
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: some great reporting on tariffs, that, let's see what he

1801
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 1: has to say.

1802
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:41,840
Speaker 2: We're fortunate to be joined this morning by Jeff Stein,

1803
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 2: white House economics reporter for the Washington Post, with a

1804
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:46,719
Speaker 2: hot scoop on tariffs.

1805
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:47,719
Speaker 4: Jeff, great to see.

1806
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 1: You, go to see you man.

1807
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 3: Thanks for guys.

1808
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, Ill. Let's put your reporting here up

1809
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:55,760
Speaker 2: on the screen. This caused a little bit of controversy

1810
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 2: that we can get into as well. But your headline

1811
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 2: here is Trump aids ready the universal and you put

1812
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 2: that in quotes tariff plans with one key change, and

1813
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,719
Speaker 2: effectively what you outlie is outline is Trump, of course,

1814
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 2: when he was running said universal tariffs on every country,

1815
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:13,080
Speaker 2: on every good across the board. What they're looking at,

1816
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 2: according to your reporting, is universal in the sense of

1817
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 2: applies to all countries, but a more limited amount of

1818
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 2: goods that this would be subject to. And this would

1819
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 2: still be a massive economic shift, but not quite as

1820
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,600
Speaker 2: one might say revolutionary as what was proposed on the

1821
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:32,360
Speaker 2: campaign trail.

1822
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 4: Go ahead and break down for is what you've learned.

1823
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is as you alluded to.

1824
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 11: This is the first time I've ever been called fake

1825
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 11: news directly by the president.

1826
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 4: Congratulations, congrat friends, have.

1827
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 11: Been trying to figure out what nickname will come up

1828
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,639
Speaker 11: with for me little Jeff for I don't know. I'll

1829
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 11: have to say the reporting that the president was objecting

1830
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 11: to him, he can get into what his objections were,

1831
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,639
Speaker 11: what we were, as you out lines. During the campaign,

1832
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 11: Trump said universal tariffs, meaning import duties, taxes essentially on

1833
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,160
Speaker 11: everything that comes into the United States. We import four

1834
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,040
Speaker 11: trillion dollars or so worth of goods every year, which

1835
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 11: is a lot. And what Trump was talking about was

1836
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 11: on the campaign a ten to twenty percent tax on

1837
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 11: all of that. So that was looking like potentially, you know,

1838
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:28,639
Speaker 11: the numbers vary, but maybe to four hundred five hundred

1839
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 11: billion dollar tax increase unilaterally by a Republican president. Shocking idea.

1840
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:37,639
Speaker 11: And what I've been told by.

1841
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 3: Trump officials and people close to the transition is.

1842
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:44,800
Speaker 11: That they're looking at saying, well, Okay, some of these

1843
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:47,679
Speaker 11: goods that we import, we can't even really make here,

1844
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 11: Like Mexican avocados do not grow in sufficient quantities in

1845
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:56,520
Speaker 11: the United States to like on shore production of avocados,

1846
01:29:57,120 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 11: cheap consumer electronics from China, Like, do we want to

1847
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:03,919
Speaker 11: put taxes on those.

1848
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:05,560
Speaker 3: Import on those imports?

1849
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:11,520
Speaker 11: To stand up domestic production of super cheap consumer electronics

1850
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:14,880
Speaker 11: or would just drive up prices for consumers and make

1851
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:19,679
Speaker 11: them unhappy. So we reported provisionally conditionally that the Trump

1852
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:24,719
Speaker 11: people were looking at potentially changing that universal tariff plan,

1853
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 11: not to throw out the universal component of it, because

1854
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:31,640
Speaker 11: as we can discuss, Trump really wants to prevent circumvention

1855
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 11: where you know, trying to can send its imports via

1856
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:37,679
Speaker 11: Vietnam and then it gets into that back door.

1857
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 3: So they really want to go universal in that sense.

1858
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,759
Speaker 11: But what they're looking at is saying, maybe those agricultural products,

1859
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 11: maybe you know, the cheap consumer goods, maybe those don't

1860
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:48,919
Speaker 11: have to be part of the overall tariff program.

1861
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 3: So we wrote that that was pairing back.

1862
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 11: That was the language I use Trump's initial plan because

1863
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 11: frankly is that is what it is.

1864
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 3: It is pairing back what they proposed.

1865
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,920
Speaker 11: Trump in his social media post calling me fake news,

1866
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 11: did not say I am going to put tariffs on

1867
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,599
Speaker 11: every import. He didn't say that. He said I am

1868
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 11: not backing down. And if the President will elect wants

1869
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:18,240
Speaker 11: to go out there and say, hey, this is still

1870
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:22,400
Speaker 11: a huge policy that no other president has done, I

1871
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 11: mean that's true, Like this is still a massive, as

1872
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 11: Crystal said, a massive mathematic expansion of any tariffs that

1873
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:30,640
Speaker 11: we've ever done, depending what they actually said alone, but

1874
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:32,840
Speaker 11: almost certainly what.

1875
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:35,719
Speaker 3: Is still the case is that it's a step back.

1876
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 11: From what he said he was going to do, and

1877
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 11: therefore we stand by reporting that said that it was

1878
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:42,720
Speaker 11: a pairing back of what he initially did.

1879
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's totally fair, and I mean, I

1880
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:46,679
Speaker 1: will say I'm pretty sure this is what we called

1881
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 1: here in terms of like what this stuff looks like

1882
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 1: in practice. As you said, of course, avocado is a

1883
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 1: perfect example. I think they come from Micho La Khan.

1884
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:57,599
Speaker 1: They can't grow here. It's a difcient quantity that too

1885
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,639
Speaker 1: manly millennials eat them, right, and that's why they can't

1886
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 1: buy how but as you said, it would still be

1887
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 1: a massive expansion. Can you lay out for us how

1888
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: this would work, which you do a little bit in

1889
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:14,320
Speaker 1: the pace. Would it involve USTR, the Unit Series Trade Representative,

1890
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:18,599
Speaker 1: the Treasury Department, would Congress be able to have any input?

1891
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 1: What would this look like?

1892
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 11: That's a great question that they're trying to sort through

1893
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:26,599
Speaker 11: right now. We reported sort of during the campaign they

1894
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 11: were looking at a few different legal authorities. The president

1895
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 11: has unilateral teriff authority, but this would be stretching it.

1896
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 3: I think is pretty clear.

1897
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:39,080
Speaker 11: The thing is, from the Trump administration's perspective, the courts

1898
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:42,640
Speaker 11: have been enormously deferential to the executive branch when they

1899
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 11: invoke any sort of natural security justification. And the Trump

1900
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 11: people could say, I think somewhat legitimately that the inability

1901
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:53,720
Speaker 11: of the US to domestically produce.

1902
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 3: Goods necessary for our military.

1903
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 11: Industrial supply chain, goods necessary for our medical supply chain,

1904
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 11: and pharmaceutical is goods necessary for our energy production, that

1905
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 11: these are matters to national security, and use the IEPA

1906
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:10,240
Speaker 11: law from nineteen seventy seven to say that is the

1907
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 11: basis for these universal, massive tariff plans.

1908
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 3: The challenge this is not exactly what you're asking, but

1909
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 3: I think the.

1910
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 11: Big challenge from a congressional perspective is that Trump and

1911
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 11: the Republicans on the Hill are trying to pay for

1912
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:28,679
Speaker 11: a tax bill that could be as big as four

1913
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 11: five trillion dollars to extend the twenty seventeen Republican tax pits,

1914
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:36,040
Speaker 11: and to do that they want to use the revenue

1915
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:39,520
Speaker 11: that they are raising from tariffs, especially you know, Republicans

1916
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:40,760
Speaker 11: on the Hill, a lot of them don't like the

1917
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 11: tariffs at all, but they're going to say, you know, hey,

1918
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 11: if Trump is doing it anyway and it's going to

1919
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 11: hurt you know, businesses that rely on imports anyway, we

1920
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 11: may as well say that that money is being used

1921
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 11: for you know, that our tax bill is less expensive

1922
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:56,679
Speaker 11: because it's paid for an import by these tariff duties.

1923
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:01,519
Speaker 11: That said, that could really delay the Trump agenda, because

1924
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 11: if Trump says I'm going to wait but whatever, four

1925
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,840
Speaker 11: or five months until Congress passes that bill, that might

1926
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 11: mean that he.

1927
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:11,440
Speaker 3: Has to wait to do the tariffs.

1928
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 11: And he already blew up that memei for saying that

1929
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:16,559
Speaker 11: he was pairing back his agenda. And if he waits

1930
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 11: until Congress passes a bill to do tariff that would

1931
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:26,559
Speaker 11: be a huge potential missed opportunity from their perspective about,

1932
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 11: you know, on raising tariffs.

1933
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 2: Gotcha, just since we referenced the Trump true social post,

1934
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:34,479
Speaker 2: I just wanted to read it so people know the

1935
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 2: specific language that he used.

1936
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 4: He says.

1937
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 2: The story in the Washington Post, quoting so called anonymous

1938
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:43,240
Speaker 2: sources which don't exist, incorrectly states that my tariff policy

1939
01:34:43,320 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 2: will be paired back. That is wrong. The Washington Post

1940
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 2: knows it's wrong. It's just another example of fake news.

1941
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 2: I mean, my rate of this, Jeff is Trump loves

1942
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:53,880
Speaker 2: to stake out a maximali's position and then use that

1943
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 2: as a negotiating leverage to arrive at whatever the ultimate

1944
01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:01,320
Speaker 2: position is. And so you know it, He's probably angry

1945
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 2: that you're sort of exposing the game of where he

1946
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:07,000
Speaker 2: wants to ultimately end up and you know, eliminating the

1947
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 2: ability for him to pretend like he's actually committed to

1948
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 2: putting tariffs on avocados and bananas and all sorts of

1949
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 2: things that it would just be completely idiotic to put

1950
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 2: a tariff on.

1951
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 11: And there's also this like key tension here a lot

1952
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 11: of people have picked up on, I think accurately that

1953
01:35:22,200 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 11: you know, Trump is busy, like with a million things.

1954
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:28,760
Speaker 11: You know, he's got like has a state coming to

1955
01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:31,200
Speaker 11: kiss the ring of mar A Lago, like Bezos and

1956
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 11: Zuckerberg or like calling him and like he's buying Greenland,

1957
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 11: Panama and whatever and so like. I don't know for sure,

1958
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,840
Speaker 11: but my impression is that Trump is not like studying

1959
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:47,880
Speaker 11: the like USTR codes under which like tariffs will be applied, right,

1960
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:51,639
Speaker 11: So there's this opportunity for his staff so maybe do

1961
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,120
Speaker 11: not exactly what he would do if he were like

1962
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:57,720
Speaker 11: able to really focus and do it.

1963
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:01,400
Speaker 3: And so there's that that gap.

1964
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 11: That I think is super interesting where you know, his

1965
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:06,680
Speaker 11: his aids are saying, sir, these are universal tariffs, are

1966
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:09,240
Speaker 11: going to be on everything, and Trump is like, well,

1967
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 11: if they're not on every good and the Washington Post

1968
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 11: is calling them a step back, then are we really

1969
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 11: doing universal? And I don't have this like fully confirmed,

1970
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:24,440
Speaker 11: but there's some say rumor skull, but that the response

1971
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:27,880
Speaker 11: to my story and his tweets, you know, his social

1972
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 11: media posts about it may actually sort of affect the

1973
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 11: process itself, where now the aids who had sort of

1974
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:35,200
Speaker 11: hope to get.

1975
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 3: Get these tariffs.

1976
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 11: These universal tariffs in and tell convince him that they

1977
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 11: were the universal tariffs, are now having going to have

1978
01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:47,680
Speaker 11: to convince him that these more moderate plans actually are that.

1979
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 2: Why do you think they wanted to talk to you, Jeff? Like,

1980
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:52,720
Speaker 2: why do you think that they wanted this story to

1981
01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 2: come out? Because it does seem like kind of from

1982
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 2: their perspective, if they wanted to try to sell them

1983
01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:59,519
Speaker 2: like see these are these are universal terrorists.

1984
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:00,639
Speaker 4: This is what you ran on.

1985
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 2: That that really sort of backfired if that was ultimately

1986
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:03,760
Speaker 2: their goal.

1987
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's hard to know with sources why they talk

1988
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:11,880
Speaker 11: to you. I'm assume that it's because of charming and persuasive,

1989
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 11: but I know that's probably that that every journalist thinks

1990
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:17,960
Speaker 11: that and it's not true ever, Right, So what was

1991
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:19,600
Speaker 11: the incentive here to leak this?

1992
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:20,520
Speaker 3: And I think.

1993
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:24,600
Speaker 11: Trying to think how to phrase this. I mean, I

1994
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 11: think there are people in the Trump orbit who are

1995
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 11: worried that these will be paired back too far and

1996
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 11: want stories to create the effect that we were just

1997
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:37,519
Speaker 11: talking about.

1998
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:38,960
Speaker 3: Yea, that.

1999
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 11: For the corner perspective of people who are worried that

2000
01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:46,280
Speaker 11: these will be sort of you know, down by the

2001
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:50,160
Speaker 11: by the free trade Reaganites in the Trump orbit, this

2002
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,120
Speaker 11: story has worked out brilliantly for them because now Trump

2003
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:56,160
Speaker 11: is aware that people might be trying to weaken them, and.

2004
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:59,200
Speaker 2: So they wanted this reaction from Trump and for him

2005
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 2: to be pissed off. You're hard to know, right ro Mey, Yeah,

2006
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:04,439
Speaker 2: but that's a possible, That's one possibility, man.

2007
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while since we've done some crimlinology

2008
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:10,160
Speaker 1: here on the show. I don't miss it, but I

2009
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:13,679
Speaker 1: guess that's four more years what we're in store.

2010
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:15,559
Speaker 4: Jeff, one last question for you.

2011
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:19,759
Speaker 2: Obviously, Elon Musk has tremendous power within this administration. Trump

2012
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,479
Speaker 2: completely sided with him on H one B visas. You know,

2013
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:24,720
Speaker 2: what is his view of Terris. This is something that

2014
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 2: he could potentially take a personal interest in it as well,

2015
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:29,720
Speaker 2: because he is in a lot of ways is a

2016
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 2: much more ideological figure than Donald Trump himself is.

2017
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 3: I'm actually it's a great question.

2018
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:38,639
Speaker 11: I'm not sure where Musk is specifically on the tariffs,

2019
01:38:39,439 --> 01:38:42,760
Speaker 11: but as a businessman, with the amount of interest he has,

2020
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 11: clearly he's going to be at least somewhat dependent on

2021
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:48,720
Speaker 11: im force for all his companies. And we've seen now

2022
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 11: like a few times this this fracture point emerge over

2023
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 11: the H one B visas and over I think we're

2024
01:38:58,360 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 11: going to see.

2025
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:02,520
Speaker 3: It for sort of over terifs potential.

2026
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:06,920
Speaker 11: Are the sort of tech executives Musk and Omswami, but

2027
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 11: also injuries in Horowitz and many of them Teal and

2028
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:14,920
Speaker 11: their incentives are just not necessarily aligned with the nagabase

2029
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 11: or the protectionists. And yeah, No, it's a great recording target.

2030
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:22,960
Speaker 11: And I should probably figure out because Musk is a

2031
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 11: huge amount of power right now, and is he going

2032
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 11: to try to get you know, you know, the tariffs

2033
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:31,799
Speaker 11: not placed on things that would affect his private business,

2034
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:37,439
Speaker 11: that was requests being submitted by other We'll be you know,

2035
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:38,920
Speaker 11: we'll be watching that very closely.

2036
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I know, he said. He praised Javier Malay

2037
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 2: for rolling back tariffs. Yeah, in that context. And you know,

2038
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 2: if you did have a different definition of universal here,

2039
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 2: it would certainly open up the door to Musk and

2040
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 2: others being able to say, like, well, that component that

2041
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,720
Speaker 2: I need for my rockets, sure early you're not going

2042
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:02,400
Speaker 2: to tear of that, Or that I need for my

2043
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:03,919
Speaker 2: tesla assembly.

2044
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:05,640
Speaker 4: Sure you're not going to tear of that.

2045
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:07,640
Speaker 2: So it would certainly open up a door for him

2046
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 2: to be able to influence that process.

2047
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2048
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely, all right, Jeff, We appreciate you man. We'll see

2049
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:14,639
Speaker 1: you later.

2050
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:17,839
Speaker 4: Congrats Jeff on the presidential on the presidential call.

2051
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:20,200
Speaker 1: Out, keep it coming, see you guys.

2052
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:20,759
Speaker 4: Bye.

2053
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 1: At the same time, in terms of media scandals out there,

2054
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,920
Speaker 1: there certainly are no true heroes in the Big three.

2055
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,599
Speaker 1: Fox News finding itself in a major controversy. Let's put

2056
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen. A new book by

2057
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:40,200
Speaker 1: reporter Alex Eisenstadt, who look, he's a great reporter, he's

2058
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:43,759
Speaker 1: a solid campaign finance person followed him for many years,

2059
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:48,519
Speaker 1: claims that a Fox News insider actually fed questions to

2060
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:53,800
Speaker 1: the Trump team in advance to somebody there, specifically questions

2061
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:59,320
Speaker 1: about quote unquote retribution that were obviously dogging Trump at

2062
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: the time. We watch this live. I think we even

2063
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:04,960
Speaker 1: covered this answer here whenever we did the show, so

2064
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, we would think that makes sense. We thought

2065
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:11,679
Speaker 1: that this was off the cuff. There's always allegations about

2066
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:15,479
Speaker 1: insider questions and all that, but here's what in. Eisenstadt writes,

2067
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 1: thirty minutes before the town hall was set, a senior

2068
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,280
Speaker 1: aide started getting text messages from a person on the

2069
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 1: inside at Fox. Holy shit. The team thought they were

2070
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:25,840
Speaker 1: images of all the questions Trump would be asked and

2071
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:30,280
Speaker 1: the planned follow ups, down to the exact wording Jackpot.

2072
01:41:30,520 --> 01:41:32,840
Speaker 1: This was like a student getting a peek at the

2073
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:35,880
Speaker 1: test before the exam started. Behar and McCollum planned to

2074
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 1: ask Trump if he would divest from his businesses if

2075
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 1: he won, whether the party was risk making a risk

2076
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 1: nominating him giving his indictments. They planned to press Trump

2077
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 1: to disavow political violence and ask if his White House

2078
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 1: would be focused on retribution, but with the questions in hand,

2079
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:54,320
Speaker 1: the team quote workshopped the answers. Eisenstadt told CNN that

2080
01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:57,320
Speaker 1: the anecdote was based on quote multiple people with direct

2081
01:41:57,360 --> 01:42:00,320
Speaker 1: knowledge of the event. Fox says, while we we do

2082
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:03,240
Speaker 1: not have any evidence of this occurring, Alex Eisenstat has

2083
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:06,519
Speaker 1: refused conveniently refused to release the images for fact checking.

2084
01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: We take these matters very seriously and plan to investigate

2085
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:11,879
Speaker 1: should there prove to be a breach within the network.

2086
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 1: I mean it would be extraordinary. Look also, why would

2087
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:18,280
Speaker 1: he release the images? Obviously the images would then give

2088
01:42:18,320 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 1: away the person. He shouldn't do that. Yeah, I mean

2089
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:23,720
Speaker 1: I don't think he's lying, Like that's what a lot

2090
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:25,760
Speaker 1: of people have said, like, oh, this is obviously a

2091
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,679
Speaker 1: fake plan. I'm telling you, guys, I followed Alex. It's possible.

2092
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:31,799
Speaker 1: I followed him for many years, solid campaign finance reporter.

2093
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:34,439
Speaker 1: I don't think this one is fake news. I don't

2094
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 1: know why.

2095
01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:37,600
Speaker 2: People would think that it's so far fetched that you

2096
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:41,599
Speaker 2: would have some strong Trump supporters working at Fox News

2097
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 2: as producers, who would feed the team this info. I mean,

2098
01:42:45,320 --> 01:42:50,080
Speaker 2: there's massive ties between Trump and Fox News.

2099
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:52,519
Speaker 4: He's calling John Hannity all the time.

2100
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:55,519
Speaker 2: You know, he's Kaylee mc nanny works there now and

2101
01:42:55,560 --> 01:42:59,599
Speaker 2: work for Trump previously. Like obviously there's huge interconnections there.

2102
01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:02,720
Speaker 2: And so to think that it's so far fetched that

2103
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 2: they would feed him the questions, I don't think that's

2104
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 2: just silly to me.

2105
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 4: Now.

2106
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is that, according to eisenstas reporting, the

2107
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:13,439
Speaker 2: Trump team was actually kind of nervous about this town

2108
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:16,559
Speaker 2: hall because it's Brett bare and Martha McCallum, who were

2109
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 2: supposed to be more of the like hard news folks

2110
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:21,400
Speaker 2: over at Fox. Even though Brett bare is kind of

2111
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 2: like buddy buddy with Trump too, like plays golf with

2112
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 2: him at times.

2113
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 4: Whatever.

2114
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 2: Obviously they are more right leaning as well, but they

2115
01:43:28,479 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 2: like to preserve an image as were like the real

2116
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:33,000
Speaker 2: news folks here, and so they were concerned that they

2117
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 2: might ask him some questions that were difficult for him

2118
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 2: to handle, or that he might have whatever kind of

2119
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 2: reaction to So for them to have the chance in

2120
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:42,479
Speaker 2: advance to be able to workshop some of these more

2121
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:46,320
Speaker 2: challenging answers was important. This was also during the time

2122
01:43:46,479 --> 01:43:49,480
Speaker 2: that there was an ongoing Republican primary and Ron DeSantis

2123
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:52,280
Speaker 2: was maybe potentially theoretically some sort of a threat to him,

2124
01:43:52,280 --> 01:43:54,320
Speaker 2: So there were a lot of Dysantis questions that were

2125
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:57,160
Speaker 2: mixed into this town hall as well. But you know,

2126
01:43:57,320 --> 01:44:02,519
Speaker 2: obviously CNN was feeding Kamala Harris questions or feeding Joe

2127
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:03,680
Speaker 2: Biden questions.

2128
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:06,759
Speaker 1: Well, yes, yeah, yeah, exactly.

2129
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a scandals because you know, these news

2130
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 2: organizations try to preserve some level of credibility. But yeah,

2131
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:20,040
Speaker 2: it's embarrassing for Fox and was clearly beneficial to Trump,

2132
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:22,280
Speaker 2: and you know, and you just shouldn't take any of

2133
01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 2: the Fox is an ideological organ of the Republican Party.

2134
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:27,479
Speaker 2: It was effectively set up to be that. I mean,

2135
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 2: that's what does set Fox sort of apart, is that

2136
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:32,320
Speaker 2: the conception from the beginning was we are going to

2137
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 2: be an ideological weapon for use by the Republican Party

2138
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:38,599
Speaker 2: so that we can compete with you know, the quote

2139
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:42,960
Speaker 2: unquote liberal news media ecosystem. So you know, this is

2140
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 2: not a particularly surprising turn of events, but still noteworthy.

2141
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:47,639
Speaker 4: The other part of the book.

2142
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:51,519
Speaker 2: That was interesting is again speaking of the connectivity with

2143
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:56,800
Speaker 2: the Fox News universe. Apparently Trump really considered Maria Bartiromo

2144
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:59,599
Speaker 2: as being his running mate instead of JD.

2145
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 4: Vance. Apparently really liked her.

2146
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:03,759
Speaker 2: He said that she, you know, the donors love her,

2147
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:06,080
Speaker 2: and of course he loves that. She's you know, very

2148
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:09,720
Speaker 2: fluent on TV and really combative on TV. She did

2149
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:13,040
Speaker 2: any number of just like embarrassingly softball interviews with Trump

2150
01:45:13,080 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 2: as well, so I'm sure he enjoyed that too, so

2151
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 2: and I think he you know, I do think he

2152
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 2: had somewhat of a preference potentially for a female in

2153
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 2: that role as well. But that's kind of funny to

2154
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:25,040
Speaker 2: imagine that she could have gotten that pick and had

2155
01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:27,439
Speaker 2: to be talked down of by what Susie Wilde.

2156
01:45:27,479 --> 01:45:29,280
Speaker 1: Apparently it was by Susie wide hooped.

2157
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 4: In to try to talk him out of that particular idea.

2158
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, who knows how serious it all was.

2159
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:36,760
Speaker 1: It genuinely would have been hilarious if Trump had gone

2160
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:40,040
Speaker 1: in that direction in some ways quite fitting. You know,

2161
01:45:40,120 --> 01:45:42,960
Speaker 1: she backed him up on everything from voter fraud to

2162
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:46,360
Speaker 1: She's always been one of the most like slavish defenders

2163
01:45:46,439 --> 01:45:49,559
Speaker 1: of him. So yeah, yeah, that's where it is. With

2164
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I mean, look, it's humiliating that it's humiliating

2165
01:45:54,479 --> 01:45:58,160
Speaker 1: if this did happen any news organization, the White House

2166
01:45:58,160 --> 01:46:02,200
Speaker 1: and campaigns, they always press you for questions and you

2167
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:05,160
Speaker 1: can maybe give a topic, you know, if I think

2168
01:46:05,160 --> 01:46:10,200
Speaker 1: that's reasonable, but the direct questions themselves is outrageous. And

2169
01:46:10,240 --> 01:46:13,760
Speaker 1: then you know to use that to prepare, like if

2170
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,120
Speaker 1: a member on the staff was able to do that.

2171
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:19,160
Speaker 1: Another big question for Fox as well is you know,

2172
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 1: they probably probably were alerted by this a long time ago,

2173
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:25,559
Speaker 1: so nobody's been fired, no action has been taken. I

2174
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:27,719
Speaker 1: would be assumed that there's not a ton of people

2175
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,080
Speaker 1: who have access to this for very good reason, so

2176
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,800
Speaker 1: that there's a narrow, you know window of a number

2177
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:33,880
Speaker 1: of people who this would even know.

2178
01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:38,479
Speaker 2: There's probably like ten people these specific.

2179
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 4: Questions in advance.

2180
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:42,719
Speaker 2: There's probably like a ten person you know, producer group

2181
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 2: that would be privy to that level of information. So yeah,

2182
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:48,840
Speaker 2: if they want to figure out who it is, they

2183
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:49,960
Speaker 2: can figure out who it is.

2184
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:52,320
Speaker 4: The question is like, do they really want to know? Yeah,

2185
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:52,920
Speaker 4: they really care?

2186
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:53,599
Speaker 1: That's a good question.

2187
01:46:53,720 --> 01:46:56,600
Speaker 2: Probably not, because they probably like having people who are

2188
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 2: friendly to Trump, just like the rest of the media

2189
01:46:59,360 --> 01:47:01,559
Speaker 2: organizations want to suck up to Trump at this point.

2190
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:03,759
Speaker 2: Fox at one point was the kind of all announce

2191
01:47:03,800 --> 01:47:05,000
Speaker 2: with him, and they want to make sure that they

2192
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:07,200
Speaker 2: stay in his good graces. So I don't think any

2193
01:47:07,200 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 2: sort of retribution will likely becoming.

2194
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:12,160
Speaker 1: It will probably correct, although I still think at a

2195
01:47:12,240 --> 01:47:13,679
Speaker 1: very basic level they should be fired.

2196
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:16,599
Speaker 2: Oh, of course, of course, anyway, all right, all right, soccer,

2197
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 2: what are you looking at?

2198
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:22,960
Speaker 1: Winning an election is easy. Actually, governing is a much

2199
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:25,760
Speaker 1: more difficult thing. It's a trite but universal lesson of

2200
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:29,360
Speaker 1: all presidencies. We're in our two party system, Disparate coalitions

2201
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:33,080
Speaker 1: come together to dream before an election, and inevitably then

2202
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:36,760
Speaker 1: somebody is disappointed when actual decisions have to happen. As

2203
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: usual with administrations, especially with one as loosely defined as

2204
01:47:40,360 --> 01:47:43,679
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's, the knife fights start early, and sometimes even

2205
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 1: on Christmas. I'm referring, of course, to the massive maga

2206
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:49,880
Speaker 1: civil war that has taken place over the Christmas holidays

2207
01:47:50,120 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 1: that began with the critique over H one B Visas,

2208
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,280
Speaker 1: then a tech write versus maga write fight about who

2209
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:59,320
Speaker 1: really is in power, and then a racist versus globalist

2210
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:02,000
Speaker 1: fight over who's American and It ended with one of

2211
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:05,520
Speaker 1: the most extraordinary posts I've ever seen from vuvek Ramaswami.

2212
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,960
Speaker 1: It basically said, white people are lazy, so let's start

2213
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:11,599
Speaker 1: with a roadmap and let's go from the beginning. Things

2214
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:13,840
Speaker 1: got kicked off when full disclosure personal friend of mine

2215
01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:16,680
Speaker 1: shreve Ram Krishnan, he was appointed by Donald Trump to

2216
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 1: be an advisor to the incoming administration on Ai stre

2217
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 1: Ram is a former venture capitalist of A sixteen and

2218
01:48:23,240 --> 01:48:26,639
Speaker 1: Z who in the past had vocally supported an increased

2219
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: number of H one B visas and uncapped country quotas

2220
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 1: for green cards. Now this set off an immediate firestorm

2221
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 1: of criticism from the Magga universe, who saw the street

2222
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:40,240
Speaker 1: Ram appointment as a betrayal of Trump's promises to reset

2223
01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:43,479
Speaker 1: US immigration policy and as a corporate giveaway. Some of

2224
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:47,080
Speaker 1: the discussion was just genuine racism against Indians to the US,

2225
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:49,400
Speaker 1: But what was really interesting was to actually see the

2226
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:53,840
Speaker 1: conflict began from grassroots Day one supporters versus many newly

2227
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:57,320
Speaker 1: arrived technology sector Trump supporters who were at direct odds.

2228
01:48:57,479 --> 01:49:00,680
Speaker 1: Many of these people of Trump awarded Trump from the

2229
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:03,519
Speaker 1: tech sector were shocked that the movement they aligned themselves

2230
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,920
Speaker 1: with including other venture capitalists and others engage in these

2231
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:09,760
Speaker 1: big fights online. We're trying to justify the H one

2232
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:12,759
Speaker 1: B visa. But the ultimate tech aligned right wing figure

2233
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:15,960
Speaker 1: that weighed in with, Elon Musk, tweets this quote. The

2234
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,960
Speaker 1: reason I am in America along with so many critical

2235
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:21,799
Speaker 1: people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies

2236
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:24,080
Speaker 1: that made America strong is because of H one B.

2237
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:27,200
Speaker 1: Take a big step back and fuck yourself in the face.

2238
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:29,760
Speaker 1: I will go to war on this issue, the likes

2239
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 1: of which you cannot possess. So why the emotion there

2240
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:38,280
Speaker 1: from Elon Musk and others? Obviously for a tech entrepreneurs

2241
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 1: who supported Donald Trump. The truth, beyond any personal interest,

2242
01:49:41,680 --> 01:49:44,160
Speaker 1: is that H one B visa is what the entire

2243
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 1: US technology industry runs on. And the dirty truth is

2244
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 1: that it exploits both the workers themselves and the US

2245
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:54,160
Speaker 1: workers who are they are competing against. So let's define

2246
01:49:54,160 --> 01:49:56,960
Speaker 1: some terms. What the hell is the H one B visa.

2247
01:49:57,320 --> 01:49:59,840
Speaker 1: H one B visa is basically a supposedly high skilled

2248
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 1: G worker program other than that otherwise known as a

2249
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:06,680
Speaker 1: Specialty occupation visa, created by the United States Congress in

2250
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:09,640
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety The justification for the visa, which has an

2251
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 1: annual cap of eighty five thousand per year, is at

2252
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:15,439
Speaker 1: high skilled industries like technology and engineering, that there's not

2253
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 1: enough available talent in the United States. Thus, the H

2254
01:50:18,479 --> 01:50:20,920
Speaker 1: one B allows the so called best in the brightest

2255
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:22,760
Speaker 1: of the world to come to the United States to

2256
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:25,479
Speaker 1: work for specific company in a specific role for three

2257
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:28,120
Speaker 1: to six years before they become eligible for a green card.

2258
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 1: In theory, it's very easy to see how this visa

2259
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:33,479
Speaker 1: category was created, but in practice it has become very

2260
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:37,120
Speaker 1: controversial for the major reliance of the US technology industry

2261
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:39,960
Speaker 1: has on it. H one B visa holders are not

2262
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:43,880
Speaker 1: allowed to easily switch jobs without risking their immigration status,

2263
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:47,320
Speaker 1: effectively chaining them to the original sponsor for the visa,

2264
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,040
Speaker 1: and systematic study has now shown us that the H

2265
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:53,879
Speaker 1: one B visa holders depress wages for US citizens because

2266
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,080
Speaker 1: they are willing to work for less for the benefit

2267
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:59,160
Speaker 1: of being able to emigrate to the United States. Now,

2268
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:02,040
Speaker 1: those who defend the program say, we're only talking about

2269
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:04,960
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand or so visas a year here. These

2270
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:07,720
Speaker 1: people feel jobs that Americans, according to them, are not

2271
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:10,240
Speaker 1: qualified to do. So let's actually dig into the numbers

2272
01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:12,599
Speaker 1: and just take a look at this. Norman matt Lofos

2273
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:14,519
Speaker 1: weighed in with the definitive piece here, and so I

2274
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:17,320
Speaker 1: will quote him from length from Compact magazine. H one

2275
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:19,920
Speaker 1: B advocates like to point out that eighty five thousand

2276
01:51:19,960 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 1: year visas is only a small fraction of overall STEM employment,

2277
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:26,880
Speaker 1: but that is misleading. Assuming a six year stay the

2278
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:29,559
Speaker 1: nominal time limit, at any given time, there would be

2279
01:51:29,680 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand visa holders in the country. More importantly,

2280
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:36,519
Speaker 1: the impact is cumulative. The H one B worker who

2281
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:39,640
Speaker 1: transitions to green cards becomes a permanent fixture in the

2282
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:43,639
Speaker 1: labor market, especially tech heavy regions. In nineteen ninety, thirty

2283
01:51:43,680 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: percent of Silicon Valley engineers were foreign born. By twenty fourteen,

2284
01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 1: that figure had jumped to seventy four percent. So let's

2285
01:51:50,240 --> 01:51:52,040
Speaker 1: think about that. We're talking here about a sector of

2286
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:55,439
Speaker 1: our economy which is roughly twenty percent of US GDP

2287
01:51:55,880 --> 01:51:58,640
Speaker 1: and almost entirely responsible for the growth of all of

2288
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:02,240
Speaker 1: our stock intacies, and the vast majority of visioneers are

2289
01:52:02,240 --> 01:52:05,360
Speaker 1: not from here. That's not bad, per se, but it

2290
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:08,800
Speaker 1: does raise a question why who's benefiting from this here? Again,

2291
01:52:09,040 --> 01:52:11,880
Speaker 1: basic labor law supply and demand come into play. If

2292
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:14,519
Speaker 1: you run a business like we do here, what's the

2293
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,439
Speaker 1: number one pain in the ass staff turnover? So what

2294
01:52:17,479 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 1: do you do when you want to prevent staff turnover?

2295
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:22,040
Speaker 1: How do you prevent that person? If you employ US

2296
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 1: citizen from leaving, you pay them more and you try

2297
01:52:24,280 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 1: to have good working conditions. How does that work with

2298
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:29,479
Speaker 1: an H one B. Actually, you can pay them less

2299
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:32,400
Speaker 1: and they can't leave. That's a good trade, easy way

2300
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:35,519
Speaker 1: to juice the stock price, You reduce employee compensation, you

2301
01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:37,479
Speaker 1: get more riches for yourself, and you don't have to

2302
01:52:37,479 --> 01:52:39,800
Speaker 1: deal with one of the biggest threats to any business

2303
01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:43,080
Speaker 1: talent leaving. Now the H one bvs A holder themselves

2304
01:52:43,280 --> 01:52:45,160
Speaker 1: might be miserable in the job, but he or she

2305
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,280
Speaker 1: has other things on their mind, Like listen, I've only

2306
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:49,840
Speaker 1: got a few more years where I have to take

2307
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:52,120
Speaker 1: this that I can get a green card. Once that happens,

2308
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm free. I can do whatever I want. So you

2309
01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 1: sit there and you take it. The person who loses

2310
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:58,240
Speaker 1: out here is the applicant who is a native born

2311
01:52:58,320 --> 01:53:02,520
Speaker 1: US citizen. Because of theirs can leave whenever they want. Furthermore,

2312
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 1: there is no implied compensation like there is for the

2313
01:53:05,479 --> 01:53:08,080
Speaker 1: H one B vis a holder. The citizen already lives

2314
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:10,679
Speaker 1: in America. The H one B visa holder can accept

2315
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:13,280
Speaker 1: less because a big part of the benefit is getting

2316
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 1: to stay now here. Again, Matt Loof weighs in by

2317
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: noting a University of California Berkeley study that shows that

2318
01:53:19,360 --> 01:53:22,639
Speaker 1: high tech engineers and managers have experienced less wage growth

2319
01:53:22,760 --> 01:53:25,759
Speaker 1: than all of their counterparts nationally. How is that possible.

2320
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:29,320
Speaker 1: We're talking again about the fastest growing sector of the

2321
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 1: US economy. Wages should be booming, and yet they're actually

2322
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:36,559
Speaker 1: growing less than average. Again, it's very simple to see why.

2323
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 1: With the vast majority of jobs at these tech companies

2324
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:41,759
Speaker 1: now held by H one B visa holders, technology companies

2325
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:45,200
Speaker 1: can depress industry standard wages and keep out these troublesome

2326
01:53:45,320 --> 01:53:48,880
Speaker 1: US citizens. Worse, in many cases, US citizens themselves can

2327
01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:51,559
Speaker 1: be fired to be replaced by H one b's they

2328
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:53,800
Speaker 1: take a look. Take a look, for example, at this

2329
01:53:53,880 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 1: recent report from sixty Minutes, where a former IT administrator

2330
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:00,600
Speaker 1: for a hospital in the state of California describes the

2331
01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:03,719
Speaker 1: anguish of being fired and then forced to train his replacement.

2332
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:04,840
Speaker 8: What did they say to you?

2333
01:54:04,920 --> 01:54:07,439
Speaker 12: Well, sorry to inform you that as of February twenty eighth,

2334
01:54:07,479 --> 01:54:09,479
Speaker 12: you'll no longer have a job. We're going to ask

2335
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 12: Social Position to discompany in India.

2336
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:13,879
Speaker 7: To accompany in India.

2337
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:17,800
Speaker 8: Sir Harrison was told he could stay on the job,

2338
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:20,759
Speaker 8: get paid for four more months, and get a bonus

2339
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:23,360
Speaker 8: if he trained his replacement.

2340
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:26,120
Speaker 12: Now I'm being told that I am not only going

2341
01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:27,679
Speaker 12: to lose my job, but I also have to train

2342
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:28,920
Speaker 12: these people to take my job.

2343
01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:31,280
Speaker 8: Are you angry? Pissed?

2344
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:35,320
Speaker 7: That exceed is angry?

2345
01:54:35,440 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 12: I'm really not a valant guy.

2346
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:38,080
Speaker 7: I love people, but.

2347
01:54:38,320 --> 01:54:41,560
Speaker 12: I've envisioned myself just backhanding the guy as he's sitting

2348
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:44,240
Speaker 12: next to me trying to learn what I know. And

2349
01:54:44,280 --> 01:54:47,120
Speaker 12: I was like, God, please don't let them send anybody

2350
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:50,120
Speaker 12: the sit next to be the shadow me. I don't

2351
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:51,560
Speaker 12: want to do this, I really don't.

2352
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:56,400
Speaker 8: Harrison and his colleague staged a protest outside the medical center.

2353
01:54:57,000 --> 01:55:01,680
Speaker 8: His fellow worker, Senior systems administrator Ho, is losing his

2354
01:55:01,800 --> 01:55:06,200
Speaker 8: job too. He had just trained his replacement from India.

2355
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:07,880
Speaker 11: I think, for once, we're going to stand up as

2356
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 11: an American and say enough is enough.

2357
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:12,080
Speaker 3: We're not going to take it anymore.

2358
01:55:12,440 --> 01:55:14,560
Speaker 1: So, with all that in mind, is it really such

2359
01:55:14,560 --> 01:55:16,600
Speaker 1: a surprise that Elon Musk is willing to go to

2360
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:19,600
Speaker 1: war for H one bs. A basic perusal of the

2361
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:22,840
Speaker 1: data shows us that Tesla is the sixteenth largest H

2362
01:55:22,880 --> 01:55:26,240
Speaker 1: one B employer in the United States, Yes, far behind

2363
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:30,080
Speaker 1: Amazon and Cognizant, a company that does it systems or

2364
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:33,400
Speaker 1: Infosis or IBM or Microsoft or Meta. Do you get

2365
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 1: the picture here? Technology giants. So let's make clear that

2366
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:40,160
Speaker 1: this is about money for them. But to obfuscate that

2367
01:55:40,440 --> 01:55:43,480
Speaker 1: is where Vivike Ramaswami comes in. During much of the

2368
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:46,880
Speaker 1: debate around H one b's, what many tech leaders basically

2369
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:50,080
Speaker 1: came to admit is that they prefer predominantly H one

2370
01:55:50,160 --> 01:55:53,800
Speaker 1: B workers from India because they work harder than Americans.

2371
01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 1: Implicit in that is, they say Americans are lazy. It

2372
01:55:57,360 --> 01:56:00,360
Speaker 1: was implicit until Vivik just said that out loud, which

2373
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:02,320
Speaker 1: I know you've heard some of this, but it's really

2374
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:05,360
Speaker 1: worth ruminating. On the crux of Vivike's posts is that

2375
01:56:05,400 --> 01:56:08,720
Speaker 1: Americans are fat, lazy and that our culture venerates the

2376
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:13,000
Speaker 1: quote jock instead of the math olympiad like him. Perfect

2377
01:56:13,040 --> 01:56:16,600
Speaker 1: Ax's formulation. The reason that top tech companies hire foreign

2378
01:56:16,600 --> 01:56:21,160
Speaker 1: workers over native Americans is because Americans, and particularly white Americans,

2379
01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:25,040
Speaker 1: are lazy. He blames this on cultural degradation and obviously

2380
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 1: personal feuds that he had growing up, where he watched

2381
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:30,920
Speaker 1: Corey from Boy Meets World and Zach and Slater from

2382
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:34,120
Speaker 1: Saved by the Bell get venerated instead of math olympiad

2383
01:56:34,160 --> 01:56:37,440
Speaker 1: nerds like himself. Now, a Vik's prescription is that Americans

2384
01:56:37,480 --> 01:56:40,400
Speaker 1: instead to adopt a parenting culture like the one he

2385
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:43,440
Speaker 1: was raised in, the immigrant striver model best known to

2386
01:56:43,480 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 1: Americans from the book Battle Him of the Tiger Mother

2387
01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:48,440
Speaker 1: by Amy Chua. And in the meantime, of course, he

2388
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:50,480
Speaker 1: needed more H one bs. Now this might be a

2389
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 1: surprise to the Vivike Ramaswami of twenty twenty three who

2390
01:56:53,120 --> 01:56:55,480
Speaker 1: called for the end of the H one B visa system,

2391
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:58,480
Speaker 1: but nonetheless let's take it seriously. As I laid out

2392
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:01,640
Speaker 1: in my own lengthy response to vivig Vivic is not

2393
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 1: wrong that many companies hire foreign born workers or children

2394
01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:08,000
Speaker 1: of immigrants because they work hard, But he is wrong

2395
01:57:08,160 --> 01:57:10,920
Speaker 1: in thinking it is somehow implicit to these groups and

2396
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:13,520
Speaker 1: not one that Americans have not always had in their

2397
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:16,600
Speaker 1: own culture. It's certainly true much of our culture today

2398
01:57:16,680 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 1: revolves around hedonism, gambling, drinking, getting stoned. But the fact

2399
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:25,440
Speaker 1: is is that as a solution is American as apple pie.

2400
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:28,360
Speaker 1: You just have to return to what we all once valued.

2401
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:31,160
Speaker 1: In fact, in the period before World War Two, many

2402
01:57:31,400 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools and other so called prep schools for

2403
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:39,000
Speaker 1: the American elite explicitly emphasized athletics, social skills, and leadership

2404
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:43,080
Speaker 1: over rote memorization and academics that is characteristic of much

2405
01:57:43,080 --> 01:57:45,920
Speaker 1: of Asian parenting today. The reason they did that is

2406
01:57:45,960 --> 01:57:48,800
Speaker 1: because if you lay a foundation for discipline through sport,

2407
01:57:49,040 --> 01:57:51,840
Speaker 1: and you create well rounded leaders, you can combine that

2408
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 1: with academic inquiry to create the entrepreneurial culture that gave

2409
01:57:55,800 --> 01:57:58,840
Speaker 1: birth to the American culture that beat the Axis powers

2410
01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:00,840
Speaker 1: in World War two and put a man on the moon.

2411
01:58:01,080 --> 01:58:03,960
Speaker 1: If Avig's model of parenting was a solution for greatness,

2412
01:58:04,040 --> 01:58:06,160
Speaker 1: then you would see the greatest companies in the world

2413
01:58:06,200 --> 01:58:10,080
Speaker 1: being built in China, India, Singapore, Korea, and Japan. And look,

2414
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:12,320
Speaker 1: as much as you all know, I love Japan, let's

2415
01:58:12,360 --> 01:58:15,040
Speaker 1: be honest, it's not the case. The reason so many

2416
01:58:15,080 --> 01:58:17,680
Speaker 1: people want to immigrate to the United States and are

2417
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:21,120
Speaker 1: willing to do so even undercut US wages. Is because

2418
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:23,080
Speaker 1: this is the place where you have, or at least

2419
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:26,360
Speaker 1: had the best shot of being whoever you want to be.

2420
01:58:26,400 --> 01:58:28,520
Speaker 1: As I lay out in the very reason that Indians

2421
01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:32,240
Speaker 1: succeed in the US is precisely the dynamism, frontier spirit,

2422
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:35,800
Speaker 1: and foundation laid by the American founding fathers. It is

2423
01:58:35,840 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 1: by combining their cultural rejection of hedonism and now current

2424
01:58:40,120 --> 01:58:43,160
Speaker 1: focus of the family unit with hard work that they

2425
01:58:43,200 --> 01:58:46,160
Speaker 1: are able to achieve such stupendous success in such a

2426
01:58:46,200 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 1: short period of time. And absolutely none of this is

2427
01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:53,160
Speaker 1: intrinsic to being Indian. It is the same story of small,

2428
01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:56,840
Speaker 1: high achieving immigrant groups. The lesson for us all is

2429
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:01,600
Speaker 1: a universal one. Pure consumerism, individualists, hedonism in an atomized

2430
01:59:01,640 --> 01:59:04,120
Speaker 1: America as a way that we have today will lead

2431
01:59:04,280 --> 01:59:06,760
Speaker 1: to ruin. The way that you get out of it

2432
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:09,120
Speaker 1: is not to bring in guest workers who have yet

2433
01:59:09,160 --> 01:59:13,000
Speaker 1: to be tainted by this, but instead to reinvigorate the

2434
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:16,520
Speaker 1: spirit of the United States and refocus all US government

2435
01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:19,720
Speaker 1: policy on the prosperity of the American family over the

2436
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:24,919
Speaker 1: prosperity of shareholder capitalism. Vivic and Elon's proscription is actually

2437
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:29,040
Speaker 1: the one that is truly anti American. It effectively believes

2438
01:59:29,320 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 1: America is so deurrascinated and lazy it can no longer

2439
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:37,680
Speaker 1: accomplish what it once did without foreign guest workers. This

2440
01:59:37,760 --> 01:59:40,600
Speaker 1: only makes sense if your civic ideal is to increase

2441
01:59:40,680 --> 01:59:43,400
Speaker 1: a company's shareholder value. But as I said in my

2442
01:59:43,480 --> 01:59:47,800
Speaker 1: response to Vivic, if you prioritize a reinvigorated civic nationalism,

2443
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:52,280
Speaker 1: that will inevitably clash with capitalist interests. In my opinion,

2444
01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:54,600
Speaker 1: we should have no more widespread immigrations to the US

2445
01:59:54,800 --> 01:59:58,000
Speaker 1: for the foreseeable future. Our power and population is just

2446
01:59:58,120 --> 02:00:00,920
Speaker 1: far too high, and at any time you history, we

2447
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:04,000
Speaker 1: have nearly flooded this country with twenty million illegal immigrants

2448
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:06,080
Speaker 1: in a short span of a few decades, and all

2449
02:00:06,120 --> 02:00:07,920
Speaker 1: of the signs of ethnic strife that we saw one

2450
02:00:07,960 --> 02:00:10,640
Speaker 1: hundred years ago have returned. At that time when the

2451
02:00:10,640 --> 02:00:13,600
Speaker 1: similar levels of high foreign born population reached a crescendo,

2452
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:16,800
Speaker 1: the United States effectively shut down the vast majority of immigration.

2453
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:20,640
Speaker 1: In that forty year or so period, something happened interesting happened.

2454
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:24,280
Speaker 1: People went from Irish, American or Slovenian American or German

2455
02:00:24,320 --> 02:00:27,800
Speaker 1: American to just American racist nativism which was fueling the

2456
02:00:27,880 --> 02:00:31,000
Speaker 1: KKK actually disappeared for a generation and the country that

2457
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:32,800
Speaker 1: put a man on the Moon was born. Now, this

2458
02:00:32,960 --> 02:00:35,480
Speaker 1: was directly at odds with the oligarchs of their day,

2459
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:38,400
Speaker 1: who also relied on cheap labor from Europe's poor to

2460
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:42,160
Speaker 1: flood their factories. But nonetheless the population understood at that

2461
02:00:42,200 --> 02:00:44,840
Speaker 1: time it was near a breaking point. It is my

2462
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:46,920
Speaker 1: opinion that is what we need again, and with the

2463
02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:48,920
Speaker 1: popular vote for Donald Trump, I think some of you

2464
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:51,080
Speaker 1: feel the same. But even if you do not, what

2465
02:00:51,160 --> 02:00:53,120
Speaker 1: I at least hope to convince you of this in

2466
02:00:53,160 --> 02:00:56,320
Speaker 1: this monologue is of what the US immigration system today

2467
02:00:56,320 --> 02:01:00,160
Speaker 1: has become a vehicle for corporate interests to protect their

2468
02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:03,160
Speaker 1: profit and having your interests secondary. You do not even

2469
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:05,520
Speaker 1: have to agree with me on immigration levels to get that.

2470
02:01:05,800 --> 02:01:07,280
Speaker 1: I will prove it to you by ending with some

2471
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:09,240
Speaker 1: words from a US senator. I'll tell you his name

2472
02:01:09,280 --> 02:01:11,840
Speaker 1: at the end quote. The primary purpose of H one

2473
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 1: B and other guest worker programs is not to employ

2474
02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:17,760
Speaker 1: the best in the brightest, but instead to replace American

2475
02:01:17,800 --> 02:01:20,920
Speaker 1: workers with lower paid workers from abroad who often live

2476
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:24,360
Speaker 1: as indentured servants. The cheaper it is to hire guest workers,

2477
02:01:24,400 --> 02:01:27,840
Speaker 1: the more money the multi billionaire owners of large corporations make.

2478
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:31,800
Speaker 1: Multi billionaire oligarchs in big tech should not be allowed

2479
02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:35,000
Speaker 1: to hire guest workers to fill entry level and mid

2480
02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:38,480
Speaker 1: level IT jobs. Those jobs should be going to American

2481
02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:41,280
Speaker 1: workers who have the constitutional right to form a union

2482
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:45,360
Speaker 1: and collectively bargain for better wages, benefits, and working conditions.

2483
02:01:45,560 --> 02:01:47,920
Speaker 1: It must never be cheaper for a corporation to hire

2484
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:51,720
Speaker 1: a guest worker from overseas than an American worker. Mister

2485
02:01:51,840 --> 02:01:54,760
Speaker 1: Ramaswami and others have argued we need a highly skilled

2486
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:58,240
Speaker 1: and well educated workforce. They are right. But the answer, however,

2487
02:01:58,360 --> 02:02:01,000
Speaker 1: is not to bring in cheap labor from abroad. That

2488
02:02:01,120 --> 02:02:04,760
Speaker 1: was Senator Bernie Sanders writing for Fox News. So perhaps

2489
02:02:04,840 --> 02:02:07,480
Speaker 1: there is a bipartisan future on this issue, at least

2490
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 1: ahead of us. I mean, it's been interesting to watch

2491
02:02:10,720 --> 02:02:12,120
Speaker 1: the ideological.

2492
02:02:13,160 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 4: Issue on both sides since Trump is on TM.

2493
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:20,200
Speaker 1: Trump, which is amazing. We'll say we did a monologue

2494
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:22,080
Speaker 1: about it at the time, or sorry, a segment about

2495
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:25,400
Speaker 1: it which people can watch. Remember during the all In

2496
02:02:25,400 --> 02:02:27,880
Speaker 1: interview where he's like, we need to staple. All of that.

2497
02:02:28,000 --> 02:02:31,200
Speaker 1: I accurately called it as a betrayal. But the theg

2498
02:02:31,320 --> 02:02:34,400
Speaker 1: thing is actually more shocking to me, because I mean,

2499
02:02:34,440 --> 02:02:36,280
Speaker 1: you and I were talking a bit about this. His

2500
02:02:36,480 --> 02:02:39,800
Speaker 1: parenting model has already been tried. It is the model.

2501
02:02:39,840 --> 02:02:42,560
Speaker 1: The Tiger Mother model is the model of the American

2502
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:45,320
Speaker 1: elite and has been for twenty years. How's the American

2503
02:02:45,400 --> 02:02:47,880
Speaker 1: elite doing? I don't think they're that great. They are

2504
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:49,680
Speaker 1: the people who covered up Joe Biden. They are the

2505
02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:51,280
Speaker 1: people who went to Ivy League schools and went to

2506
02:02:51,320 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 1: go work at McKenzie to help Purdue Pharma juice their profits.

2507
02:02:55,600 --> 02:02:58,080
Speaker 1: Are we putting men on the moon? No, are we

2508
02:02:58,120 --> 02:03:01,560
Speaker 1: doing anything great. No way that you really make a

2509
02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:03,600
Speaker 1: ton of money in America today is to go work

2510
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:06,520
Speaker 1: for a health insurance company and use AI to deny claims.

2511
02:03:07,160 --> 02:03:09,640
Speaker 1: Or it's like, what are we educating people for? It's

2512
02:03:09,720 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 1: for such great purpose? Like I don't see anything all

2513
02:03:12,200 --> 02:03:15,080
Speaker 1: that good happening in the US society right now. And

2514
02:03:15,120 --> 02:03:19,120
Speaker 1: that's just where the breakdown in his whole theory is incorrect.

2515
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:22,480
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, study and be good at violin.

2516
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:25,880
Speaker 1: I just reread Tier Mother. It's an insane book. It's

2517
02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:28,600
Speaker 1: actually crazy just where she sits there and like whips

2518
02:03:28,640 --> 02:03:32,080
Speaker 1: her child rhetorically for not being good enough at the piano.

2519
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:33,800
Speaker 1: And it's like, to what end? So you could go

2520
02:03:33,840 --> 02:03:37,000
Speaker 1: to Harvard Law for what? For? What question was never

2521
02:03:37,160 --> 02:03:39,880
Speaker 1: answered by these people. And that's the problem I have

2522
02:03:40,160 --> 02:03:41,600
Speaker 1: with this whole thing. It's just bullshit.

2523
02:03:41,680 --> 02:03:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, ye, well, I already fought with you about immigration,

2524
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:45,480
Speaker 2: so we'll put that part to the tide and talk

2525
02:03:45,480 --> 02:03:49,200
Speaker 2: about the VIVG thing because I do find it really fascinating. Also,

2526
02:03:49,280 --> 02:03:51,840
Speaker 2: it's just like such a bit. I mean, Trump just

2527
02:03:51,960 --> 02:03:55,200
Speaker 2: won this election on the backs of non college educated

2528
02:03:55,240 --> 02:03:59,120
Speaker 2: workers who explicitly rejected this view of the world that

2529
02:03:59,160 --> 02:04:02,440
Speaker 2: has this essentially even embraced both by elite liberals and

2530
02:04:02,600 --> 02:04:04,760
Speaker 2: by who you know, look at the white working class

2531
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:06,080
Speaker 2: and are like, it's your fucking fault.

2532
02:04:06,120 --> 02:04:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah they hail, Yeah, right, that's that is the view that.

2533
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:13,600
Speaker 2: Was rejected in you know, Trump is twenty sixteen, and

2534
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:15,840
Speaker 2: so for fake to be like, no, actually, I do

2535
02:04:15,880 --> 02:04:17,840
Speaker 2: think it's your fucking fault that you and your kids

2536
02:04:17,920 --> 02:04:20,680
Speaker 2: are allowed to be which is increab I actually am too,

2537
02:04:20,760 --> 02:04:22,240
Speaker 2: because it's a mask off moment.

2538
02:04:22,280 --> 02:04:24,920
Speaker 4: And now we can talk about it. So there's that.

2539
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 2: There's also this part, really I don't know why the

2540
02:04:29,080 --> 02:04:31,680
Speaker 2: sticks in my crop, but the culture he's describing doesn't

2541
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:34,600
Speaker 2: even exist anymore, like the mall culture and the universal

2542
02:04:34,600 --> 02:04:37,760
Speaker 2: sitcom culture. Things were so much better when we actually

2543
02:04:37,840 --> 02:04:40,240
Speaker 2: had that culture, right, not that that was perfect, and

2544
02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:43,080
Speaker 2: obviously mall culture is all wrapped up in consumersm or whatever.

2545
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:45,640
Speaker 2: But we're trying to have Derek Thompson on next week

2546
02:04:46,120 --> 02:04:49,720
Speaker 2: is tracking the way that these social trends, like teenagers

2547
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:51,960
Speaker 2: don't even hang out with each other anymore, be better

2548
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:53,640
Speaker 2: if they were hanging out together at the mall. He

2549
02:04:54,040 --> 02:04:56,840
Speaker 2: goes after like he's like, you shouldn't have your kids

2550
02:04:56,880 --> 02:04:59,200
Speaker 2: go to sleepovers. They should instead be studying for the

2551
02:04:59,200 --> 02:05:02,040
Speaker 2: math Olympics. But it's like that's the exact wrong direction

2552
02:05:02,480 --> 02:05:06,200
Speaker 2: because these teens are miserable, depressed, and of course they're

2553
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:08,760
Speaker 2: not going to live up to whatever the best version

2554
02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:12,320
Speaker 2: of themselves is when they're struggling with these mental health

2555
02:05:12,360 --> 02:05:14,880
Speaker 2: issues and the lack of social engagement is a big

2556
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:15,280
Speaker 2: part of that.

2557
02:05:15,320 --> 02:05:16,160
Speaker 4: So that's number one.

2558
02:05:16,320 --> 02:05:19,360
Speaker 2: Number two, like Vivek is a political leader in a

2559
02:05:19,400 --> 02:05:22,000
Speaker 2: position of political power. No, we didn't vote for him,

2560
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:23,760
Speaker 2: but that's who he is now. I don't need our

2561
02:05:23,800 --> 02:05:26,680
Speaker 2: political leaders lecturing to us about what our culture is

2562
02:05:26,720 --> 02:05:30,040
Speaker 2: and how we should be raising our kids. Focus on policy,

2563
02:05:30,560 --> 02:05:32,680
Speaker 2: because you know, I think you and I have a

2564
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:35,880
Speaker 2: different view of how much culture drives these trends. I

2565
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:39,880
Speaker 2: think policy drives much of these outcomes, much more so

2566
02:05:39,920 --> 02:05:44,640
Speaker 2: than these different individual cultural dynamics. But whether you think that,

2567
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:47,080
Speaker 2: agree with me on that or not, the thing you

2568
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:49,640
Speaker 2: have control over, the thing that you've been put in

2569
02:05:49,760 --> 02:05:53,480
Speaker 2: charge of, is policy. So stop lecturing people about what

2570
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:56,600
Speaker 2: sitcoms they watched when they were twelve years old, and

2571
02:05:56,640 --> 02:05:58,720
Speaker 2: start focusing on how to make life better for people.

2572
02:05:58,760 --> 02:06:00,840
Speaker 2: And then the number three thing, This is really the

2573
02:06:00,840 --> 02:06:05,880
Speaker 2: core of it. Neoliberalism effectively says the only thing that

2574
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:10,080
Speaker 2: matters is GDP growth and shareholder value. You as a person,

2575
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:13,920
Speaker 2: if you don't make it in the market, not only

2576
02:06:14,080 --> 02:06:16,440
Speaker 2: is it your own fault, and you have failed as

2577
02:06:16,440 --> 02:06:20,120
Speaker 2: a human being. There is nothing redeeming about you. If

2578
02:06:20,120 --> 02:06:23,520
Speaker 2: you aren't going to Harvard, if you aren't providing shareholder

2579
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:26,640
Speaker 2: value for one of Elon Musk's many companies, you have

2580
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:31,400
Speaker 2: failed as a human being. I fundamentally reject that view

2581
02:06:31,720 --> 02:06:35,360
Speaker 2: of humanity. There are so many more ways to be

2582
02:06:35,520 --> 02:06:39,880
Speaker 2: valuable to society than just to go work at McKenzie

2583
02:06:40,280 --> 02:06:43,120
Speaker 2: or go get your Harvard law degree, or go come

2584
02:06:43,200 --> 02:06:47,160
Speaker 2: up with the latest exotic financial instrument on Wall Street.

2585
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:49,600
Speaker 4: There are so many actually better.

2586
02:06:49,400 --> 02:06:55,440
Speaker 2: Ways to be a useful, valuable, honorable, decent family member,

2587
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:59,360
Speaker 2: community member, member of society, et cetera. And so I

2588
02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:03,040
Speaker 2: find this whole way of viewing human beings to be

2589
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:06,280
Speaker 2: totally disgusting. And where I saw it up close and

2590
02:07:06,320 --> 02:07:10,800
Speaker 2: personal was more so less in the immigrant families that

2591
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:14,840
Speaker 2: I'm close with, but more actually with the elite manhattanites

2592
02:07:15,160 --> 02:07:17,360
Speaker 2: that I saw when I was working at MSNBC who

2593
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:21,680
Speaker 2: had adopted this model for themselves, their families, and their kids.

2594
02:07:22,000 --> 02:07:23,920
Speaker 2: This is the type of mentality that leads to like

2595
02:07:23,960 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 2: the Varsity Blue scandal, where you think that the only

2596
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:32,720
Speaker 2: thing that matters is this specific mode of achievementism, and

2597
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:37,120
Speaker 2: you will do anything including schedule your child down to

2598
02:07:37,240 --> 02:07:40,960
Speaker 2: the minute and force them into all these you Latin

2599
02:07:41,000 --> 02:07:44,080
Speaker 2: tutoring and the math Olympics and the fencing, because that's

2600
02:07:44,120 --> 02:07:46,360
Speaker 2: the best way to get a scholarship, et cetera. That

2601
02:07:46,840 --> 02:07:49,040
Speaker 2: you will schedule them down to the minute and never

2602
02:07:49,160 --> 02:07:53,120
Speaker 2: let them just be and discover who they are intrinsically

2603
02:07:53,160 --> 02:07:55,720
Speaker 2: and what they might want and enjoy.

2604
02:07:55,520 --> 02:07:56,800
Speaker 4: To contribute to the world.

2605
02:07:56,840 --> 02:08:01,440
Speaker 2: So I actually completely reject this model of parenting as

2606
02:08:01,480 --> 02:08:03,800
Speaker 2: a parent well and find it really.

2607
02:08:03,560 --> 02:08:06,720
Speaker 1: Dist most Americans do, and that's why reading the Vivike this, Look,

2608
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:09,040
Speaker 1: you can't call me racist for saying this. It literally

2609
02:08:09,080 --> 02:08:11,120
Speaker 1: sounds like a foreigner trying to tell people what to do.

2610
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:15,640
Speaker 1: Like it's it's crazy. You're like, dude, this is the

2611
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:19,800
Speaker 1: mentality of all of the Indian elite in India. If

2612
02:08:19,800 --> 02:08:23,480
Speaker 1: it worked, then why isn't it working there. It's obviously

2613
02:08:23,520 --> 02:08:27,080
Speaker 1: something intrinsic here in the US that makes it possible

2614
02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:30,440
Speaker 1: for people like to Vivike become fantastically wealthy in a

2615
02:08:30,480 --> 02:08:35,440
Speaker 1: single generation. And yet he's basically prescribing it for people

2616
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:38,440
Speaker 1: while and I mean just in general, like telling them

2617
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:40,960
Speaker 1: what to value and whatnot. Now, listen, I agree with

2618
02:08:41,000 --> 02:08:43,040
Speaker 1: some of his critiques. I do think it's true a

2619
02:08:43,080 --> 02:08:44,960
Speaker 1: lot of people don't work very hard and all of that,

2620
02:08:45,040 --> 02:08:47,800
Speaker 1: et cetera, and we have a culture of hedonism, et cetera.

2621
02:08:47,880 --> 02:08:49,760
Speaker 1: But I agree with you completely that a lot of

2622
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:53,240
Speaker 1: that is policy. The H one B thing is perfect example.

2623
02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:56,040
Speaker 1: It's like you, it's not in your control how much

2624
02:08:56,080 --> 02:08:59,360
Speaker 1: you get paid. It's a macro system based on visa.

2625
02:08:59,480 --> 02:09:01,880
Speaker 1: You know the I didn't put this in. The actual

2626
02:09:01,920 --> 02:09:05,760
Speaker 1: person who wrote the H one B law, he said

2627
02:09:05,920 --> 02:09:08,080
Speaker 1: at the time that he was duped by the technology

2628
02:09:08,120 --> 02:09:10,880
Speaker 1: companies and he's outraged at the way that it is

2629
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:14,600
Speaker 1: now used. The congressman who passed H one B and

2630
02:09:14,760 --> 02:09:17,120
Speaker 1: wrote the law said he is outraged at the way

2631
02:09:17,160 --> 02:09:19,920
Speaker 1: that the technology companies have circumvented it to use and

2632
02:09:20,000 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 1: discriminate against the US workers. And look at that video

2633
02:09:23,200 --> 02:09:25,640
Speaker 1: of that guy. Again didn't have time to play it.

2634
02:09:25,720 --> 02:09:27,720
Speaker 1: He worked at a children's hospital and he's like, you know,

2635
02:09:27,880 --> 02:09:30,680
Speaker 1: I took my work really seriously keeping these systems up

2636
02:09:30,720 --> 02:09:32,600
Speaker 1: because I would walk around and see parents with children

2637
02:09:32,600 --> 02:09:35,040
Speaker 1: who are fighting cancer. He's like, somebody who's not here

2638
02:09:35,080 --> 02:09:37,520
Speaker 1: in the building has no idea, you know what the

2639
02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:40,080
Speaker 1: responsibility and all that, and that describes what you're saying.

2640
02:09:40,080 --> 02:09:41,720
Speaker 1: It's not just about the bottom line. And you know

2641
02:09:41,760 --> 02:09:44,680
Speaker 1: the craziest part too, that was a state institution, so

2642
02:09:44,680 --> 02:09:47,200
Speaker 1: those were government dollars that they were being paid. That

2643
02:09:47,240 --> 02:09:47,920
Speaker 1: were outsourced.

2644
02:09:48,040 --> 02:09:50,240
Speaker 2: I mean, here's the thing, is, like, you don't want

2645
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:52,560
Speaker 2: to deny people agency, like the choices they make in

2646
02:09:52,600 --> 02:09:55,680
Speaker 2: their lives, Like, yes, personal responsibility blah blah blah. But

2647
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:58,760
Speaker 2: is the primary reason that the working class in America

2648
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:02,400
Speaker 2: keeps going backwards because of their own moral personal failings?

2649
02:10:02,520 --> 02:10:02,760
Speaker 9: Yeah?

2650
02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:02,880
Speaker 7: No?

2651
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:07,839
Speaker 2: Or is it because their jobs were shipped to shipped

2652
02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:12,120
Speaker 2: overseas by a combination of you know, NAFTA and PNTR

2653
02:10:12,400 --> 02:10:14,920
Speaker 2: and the busting up of unions and all of these

2654
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:20,920
Speaker 2: elite driven policies that were meant that were meant to

2655
02:10:21,520 --> 02:10:24,960
Speaker 2: crush the working class and make them desperate, make it

2656
02:10:25,000 --> 02:10:27,560
Speaker 2: so that they can't bargain for better wages, that they

2657
02:10:27,600 --> 02:10:31,080
Speaker 2: have no other options, and they will be effectively like

2658
02:10:31,120 --> 02:10:32,880
Speaker 2: those in denreservants.

2659
02:10:32,200 --> 02:10:34,200
Speaker 4: That they're now just you know, bringing in for H

2660
02:10:34,280 --> 02:10:34,959
Speaker 4: one b's.

2661
02:10:34,720 --> 02:10:37,880
Speaker 2: Et cetera, who are literally their job status is tied

2662
02:10:37,920 --> 02:10:39,000
Speaker 2: to their employment.

2663
02:10:39,520 --> 02:10:44,040
Speaker 4: That is, that is the real crux of the problem. So, yes, of.

2664
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:46,120
Speaker 2: Course, your own personal choices and the way you raise

2665
02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:46,960
Speaker 2: your kid blah blah blah.

2666
02:10:46,960 --> 02:10:48,320
Speaker 4: Of course these things have an impact.

2667
02:10:48,520 --> 02:10:50,640
Speaker 2: But when you look at a trend that is infected

2668
02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:55,960
Speaker 2: an entire society, you have to say these were because

2669
02:10:56,000 --> 02:11:01,240
Speaker 2: of policy choices, not because you liked a certain character

2670
02:11:01,640 --> 02:11:04,680
Speaker 2: in boy Meet's world when you were thirteen years old,

2671
02:11:05,120 --> 02:11:08,400
Speaker 2: or because you let your kids have sleepovers. Okay, so

2672
02:11:08,800 --> 02:11:13,040
Speaker 2: that's what is so revealing about the whole vake monologue.

2673
02:11:13,120 --> 02:11:14,760
Speaker 4: And listen, he said it out loud.

2674
02:11:14,800 --> 02:11:21,000
Speaker 2: But trust and believe many Republicans, many Democrats think the

2675
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:24,920
Speaker 2: same thing, especially about the white working class, because Democrats

2676
02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:27,160
Speaker 2: have a story about if you're you know, a group

2677
02:11:27,200 --> 02:11:30,040
Speaker 2: that's like, in their view, officially oppressed, they have a

2678
02:11:30,080 --> 02:11:31,880
Speaker 2: story about why you may have been held back and

2679
02:11:31,920 --> 02:11:33,720
Speaker 2: not made it blah blah blah blah blah. If you

2680
02:11:33,760 --> 02:11:37,160
Speaker 2: are a white man living in America, they do not

2681
02:11:37,320 --> 02:11:39,280
Speaker 2: have a story for why you aren't making it. So

2682
02:11:39,880 --> 02:11:42,320
Speaker 2: must be something you did, must be some failure, It

2683
02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:45,640
Speaker 2: must be your fault. And so yeah, the vag saying

2684
02:11:45,680 --> 02:11:47,680
Speaker 2: it out loud, and by the way, using rhetoric that

2685
02:11:47,840 --> 02:11:50,560
Speaker 2: many Black Americans will recognize as the type of rhetoric

2686
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,760
Speaker 2: that many elites, but especially Republicans, have used about their

2687
02:11:54,800 --> 02:11:58,240
Speaker 2: culture and why they've struggled to succeed as well, is

2688
02:11:58,320 --> 02:11:59,560
Speaker 2: also really quite something.

2689
02:12:00,480 --> 02:12:04,160
Speaker 1: Is it's either all individual agency or all systems. I

2690
02:12:04,200 --> 02:12:06,240
Speaker 1: am a big believer in both, but in.

2691
02:12:06,480 --> 02:12:08,920
Speaker 2: When you're t I am more of a believer in

2692
02:12:08,920 --> 02:12:11,920
Speaker 2: the systems. But when you're talking about politicians, like, who

2693
02:12:11,960 --> 02:12:14,440
Speaker 2: are you to tell us exactly how we should raise

2694
02:12:14,440 --> 02:12:17,280
Speaker 2: our kids and what sort of like, you know, cultural

2695
02:12:17,360 --> 02:12:20,200
Speaker 2: enjoyments we should partake in when we're in our rare

2696
02:12:20,280 --> 02:12:20,880
Speaker 2: leisure time.

2697
02:12:21,240 --> 02:12:23,880
Speaker 1: Exactly right, all right? I enjoyed writing that one. I

2698
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:26,440
Speaker 1: hope you guys liked it. We will see you all later.