1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Before we get started, I want to let you know 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: that we'll be talking about eating disorder. Behavior is pretty 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: candidly in this episode. If you find that topic triggering, 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: please feel free to skip this one. Risking your health 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: just isn't worth it. What was your first impression of balancing, 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: like the first time you actually saw in person? Most 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: of it was first hearsay because there was such a 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: cult around all of it. In the school, of course, 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: it was an insular world into which we were permitted 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: to enter and chosen, and so I don't even know 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: really what that first impression could have been, other than 12 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: nervous anticipation and excitement and a desire to be seen. 13 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: Stephanie the land is a form or dancer. When she 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: stepped into balancing school for the first time, he was 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: in his mid sixties. Stephanie was fourteen, and she knew 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: the only way to dancer balancing in his company was 17 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: to train in his school, the School of American Ballet. 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: People were not taken from the outside. We had to 19 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: go through the school for at least two or three 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: years even to be considered for the company. Nobody ever 21 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: came from the outside. We always had to be an insider. 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: It was definitely a unique situation in that way, and 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: getting into that school wasn't easy to do. Do you 24 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: remember your first day at the School of American Ballet. 25 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: I first remember my audition. I think I went in 26 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: sixty eight. It was a private audition, and I went 27 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: in and I was fourteen and a half and I 28 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: only had had occasional classes, and I was told to 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: ring point shoes. I didn't have point shoes. I've never 30 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: been on point. Stephanie didn't know a lot of the 31 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: names of the steps. So Diana Adams, a famous balancing 32 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: dancer who had retired from the stage and was running 33 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: the school, demonstrated every step for her and she showed 34 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: me everything. I imitated her by all standards of what 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: I understand now. I was extremely unsophisticated, and it was terrifying. 36 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: I came out and she came to my mother and 37 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: she said, well, she's years behind. I'll put her in 38 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: with the eleven year olds. It's unlikely that it's going 39 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: to work, but she does have some turnout. That was it. 40 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: Fourteen year old Stephanie towered over the eleven year olds 41 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: in her class, but it didn't deter her. I love 42 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: to move, I love to dance. I was fascinated by 43 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: where I was, and I was enchanted by the people 44 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: around owned me. Stephanie didn't know what she was doing, 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: but she imitated well. She could copy the other students 46 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: and replicate the movement, even when she didn't know what 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: step came next or even what it was called. And 48 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: three months later I was moved up. It was exciting, 49 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: and I thought everybody was the most beautiful creatures on 50 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: the earth that I'd ever seen, and they were so talented. 51 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: So I'd come home report about all these people I'd 52 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: seen and how beautiful they were. M m m. And also, 53 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: there's something about being elite, you know, I'm just going 54 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: to say that, as much as I don't like to 55 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: say that about being chosen an elite, you know, there's 56 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: this um ego. Part of your sense of self recognizes 57 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: that you are being selected and selected in our particular 58 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: arena where it is so super refined and quite close 59 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: to the outside world. We were christened, we were graced 60 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: to be allowed in the school and allowed to be 61 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: in that studio, and allowed to be in relationship to 62 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 1: that organization, to the organization. It's like when you first 63 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: fall in love and you feel like you're the person. 64 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's me. How can that not be? 65 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: Throwing from my heart? Podcasts and Rococo Punch, This is 66 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: the turning Room of Mirrors. I'm Erica Lance, Part three, 67 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: We're ESK Call. When Stephanie started at the School of 68 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: American Ballet, she was entering something big. New York was 69 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: in the middle of what came to be known as 70 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: the dance boom in the six season seventies. New York 71 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: was a hub for all kinds of dance. I was 72 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: going to two or three performances a week. Dance historian 73 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,679 Speaker 1: Lynne Garafola remembers being at the start of her career 74 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: as a critic and writer in the seventies. It seemed 75 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: like everyone was talking about dance. There were performances everywhere, 76 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: Tickets were still relatively cheap. There were ballet companies coming 77 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: from many different places. So I think there was this 78 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: sense of energy and possibility, and at the center of 79 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: this movement was Balanching. By then, he'd been in the 80 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: US for thirty years. He'd built a ballet school and 81 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: a ballet company. As far as the dance world was concerned, 82 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: he'd become the Shakespeare of neo classical ballet, and audiences 83 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: got to watch him write his masterpieces right in front 84 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: of them. Balancing in the New York City ballet became 85 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: really one of the pre eminent artistic institutions. These were 86 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: just one of the pre eminent cultural moments in New 87 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: York City. This is historian Jim Steaken. He got people 88 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: who aren't necessarily into ballet to care about ballet. You 89 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: made ballet something that was on TV on a regular basis. 90 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: He turned certain ballerinas into cultural icons that girls wanted 91 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: to emulate and inspire them to study ballet. One thing 92 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: I would like to say is that it's pretty clear 93 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: when you read all the reviews beginning in the late sixties, 94 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: seventies into the nine eighties, the balancing is portrayed as 95 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: someone who could do no wrong. Even when he does 96 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: a really terrible ballet. The language is kind of nice. 97 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you read some of those things, it's like 98 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,239 Speaker 1: he could do no wrong. It's like he was a god. 99 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: Balancing was ever present in the school. He could walk 100 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: into any class any day and wait to see what 101 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: would catch his eye. As the world around her worshiped 102 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: Balancing Stephanie c the Land was still a teenager, hoping 103 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: to join his company someday. One day she was asked 104 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: to be part of these performances they called lecture demos, 105 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: where students would go to public schools to demonstrate ballet. First, 106 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: they had to learn the choreography. There were three couples dancing. 107 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: Stephanie and her partner were in the back behind the 108 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: lead couple. I wasn't very good at ballet in my mind, 109 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: not yet, she remembers. That day. A talented dancer named 110 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: Fernando Bojones was there sitting on the udio floor at 111 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: the front, and then Balancine walked in. She'd never met 112 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: him before, and I thought, well, nobody looks at the 113 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: people in the back. And I thought, well, he's not 114 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: watching me. Balanciine is not watching me, so it really 115 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I can do whatever I want back here. 116 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: And Fernando said, well, he didn't take his eyes off 117 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: of you for one minute. You know, by the time 118 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: he saw me, I don't know how old he was. 119 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: He had seen so many dancers, he'd lived such a 120 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: long life. If you spark his curiosity, that's a good thing. 121 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: He never wanted to be told who to like, and 122 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: very often, in fact, I think he went the other way. 123 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: So if the heads of the schools, who were his 124 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: Russian colleagues at the time, would say we like this 125 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: and this and this person, likely he would turn his 126 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: head and look for somebody else. Balancine wanted good dancers, 127 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: but Stephanie said he was also looking for someone unformed, 128 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: someone's still raw, somebody who doesn't quite have it all, 129 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: and he could shape them. He could form them. She 130 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: doesn't quite know what she's doing, but there's something. Then 131 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: it was very what you say, Chavi and Pygmalion a 132 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: little bit, you know, Eliza Dolittle. There's perhaps a sculpture 133 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: in that marble. He could make sixty mistakes and one 134 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: was going to come out of full sculpture. H And 135 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: that was basically how he saw it. And he even 136 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: would talk about, you know, it could be a field 137 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: of grass, but one flower. Could Stephanie be that flower. 138 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: Stephanie quickly learned how much the school of American Ballet 139 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: was about balancing and his choreography. People were trained to 140 00:09:52,640 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: hone his particular sensibilities, even his ethics, so that there 141 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: would be a readiness definitely a readiness and all of 142 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: us to fall right into the company, efficient and ready 143 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: to be useful, immediately, ready to execute and embody his visions. 144 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: Usually when you're a teenager, you don't meet the one 145 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: person who will make all of your career decisions. But 146 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: that's kind of what balancinge was. Balancine was basically the 147 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: be all, end all answer to the rest of your life, 148 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: sounds wise. As a student, Stephanie a Land learned there 149 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: were many expectations for dancers at the School of American Ballet, 150 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: some explicit, some so ingrained in the culture they didn't 151 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: have to be said aloud. There's a certain stringent criteria 152 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: for body types and adhering to those body types. There 153 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: were criteria that were very very clear and in no 154 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: uncertain terms. What were the criteria generally long limbed, tall, 155 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: long necks, small heads, that was understood, fair skin. I 156 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: think I've even heard something like when you slice an 157 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: apple open, that kind of the whiteness of the fruit. 158 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: There was certainly exceptions, but that was it. It's well 159 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: documented that Balancine had a preference for pale, thin dancers, 160 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: for dancers he loved. He'd praised them with phrases like 161 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: alabaster princess or pale skin that reflected the light. He 162 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: had a lot of opinions about dancers bodies. Here he 163 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: is in the nineteen sixty three interview on w n 164 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: y C talking about how he evaluates female dwan. There's 165 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: specifically girls. He starts by comparing the pros and cons 166 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: of two girls bodies. One girl is tall, It's very 167 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 1: very tall, with beautiful legs and fantastic extension. One of 168 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: them but doesn't turn as fast and has a beauty 169 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: will express her marble face, you know, almost like Angel. 170 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: Where another girl is short. The other one would be shorter, cool, 171 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: short legs, dark face. She can't jump very high and 172 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: stretch her legs, but she could be very faster, and 173 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: maybe her ability to express with the face, maybe she 174 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: exceeds the first in terms of artistic expression. I mean 175 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: they're all different animals balance, She says, you can't say 176 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 1: who is better. It's like you say what's better m 177 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: leopard or jaguar or line or He had animals and 178 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: images for everyone. One dancer said she was a porcupine, 179 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: her friend a delicious mushroom. Whether this was playful or dehumanizing. 180 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell, but if you made the cut, 181 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: it might have been because of your idiosyncrasies, your individual style. 182 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: It might be a shimmer of something balancing could mold 183 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: into a timeless sculpture. When balancing choreographs, it's like it 184 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: fits like a glove, you know, It's like it's meant 185 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: for you, and that's so special. It's it's a glove 186 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: that fits. Deborah Austin entered the school as a shy 187 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: thirteen year old. She'd always depended on dance to draw 188 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: her out of her cocoon. Then she found herself vying 189 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 1: for a position with Balancing's company. And they told my 190 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: parents that most likely I would never get into the 191 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: New York City Vallet because I would not fit in. 192 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: The message came from a teacher at the school that 193 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: she would not fit in because of the color of 194 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: her skin, because she's black. They said she could never 195 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: dance in the court ballet, the group of dancers you 196 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: often see dancing behind the soloists, because she wouldn't match. 197 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: You know, I would have to be a soloist if 198 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: that was possible. And I'm looking at them at thirteen 199 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: years old, thinking, I know I have talent, but a soloist, 200 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: you've got to be getting me. Jumping from student to 201 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: soloists seemed impossible, but Deborah wanted to dance for me. 202 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: It was like there was not going to be a no. 203 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I was going to achieve this on my own, Marrior, 204 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: no matter what color I was, no matter what I did. 205 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: You had to sparkle something for him to be interested 206 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: in you. I mean, just being there was not exactly ideal. 207 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: You had to really show your worth. Balancine had been 208 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: watching her, and she did get in. At age sixteen. 209 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: She was the first black female dancer admitted into the company. 210 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: She danced in the Core and Swan Lake, a role 211 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: she'd been told she could never dance, and she danced 212 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: soloist rolls, one that Balancine specifically choreographed for her. He 213 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: was so kind, just the way he took your hand 214 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: and said, come here, dear. You know yet you were 215 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: still scared of him, at least I was. He could 216 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: be tough, but he was a father figure, you know, 217 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: to some of us, and we were his disciples. I 218 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: think he cared more about individuality than he cared about 219 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: a look. I think he cared about how you were 220 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: or as a artist. I really don't believe that there 221 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: was a specific type that he wanted. I mean, supposedly 222 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: he wanted the skin tone to be the color of 223 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: a fresh peeled apple. My skin color was not the 224 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: color of a freshly peeled apple by no stretch of 225 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: the imagination. So there you have it. Still, the reality 226 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: was that Balancie's company was almost entirely white. For the 227 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: nine years Debbor dance at the New York City Ballet, 228 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: she was the only black female dancer there. I might 229 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: have paved something. I I literally made a driveway, but 230 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: I was there for nine years by myself. It might 231 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: have hindered me, you know, in some ways because of 232 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: what I was told when I was younger. I feel 233 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: like I wanted to fit in, keep down inside. Possibly 234 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: I went back into my cocoon and myself for many 235 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: years in the company. Deborah believes that Balancine didn't have 236 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: one type in mind, that he was open to many 237 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: kinds of dancers, and this is one of those areas 238 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: where Balancine seems to hold opposites at the same time. 239 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: Did he want dancers to conform to his aesthetics or 240 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: did he value variety. What was clear was that being 241 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: thin was important. I mean, I just wanted to be 242 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: thinner because I knew being thinner was gonna get me parts, 243 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: and he was gonna like me more. And you wanted 244 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: so badly, you know, you please him. Then he used 245 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: to call us all briocious because we were all like 246 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: the young and our bodies changed from being these skinny 247 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: little things to like becoming women. But he wanted us 248 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: dinner than we probably were being pubis and young girls. 249 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: Now I look it picked with myself when I was 250 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: younger in those photographs, and I go, oh my god, 251 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: they called me fat, Like how is that even possible? 252 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: We were definitely indoctrinated with a certain aesthetic that was 253 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: known as the Balanchine body. Stephanie and Deborah overlapped at 254 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: the company in one piece. They danced back to back 255 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: solos while Debora spins off stage in a joyful mix 256 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: of peak turns and jumps. Stephanie, almost mirroring Deborah, twirls 257 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: on stage all length and speed. The preference for very 258 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: long legs for thin I did not match that. In 259 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: all moments. I was a little more round than the 260 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: preferred body. There were times when I was taken out 261 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: of ballets because of my weight, and this was before 262 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: it was politically incorrect to address it, so basically I'd 263 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: just be called fat and pulled out. So I had 264 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: those phases and those conflicts and self deprecation certainly, and 265 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: went through them. Some see balancing as the person most 266 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: responsible for changing the expectation of ballerina's bodies not just 267 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: to be slim, but to be absolutely as thin as possible. 268 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: If you look at photos of the late nineteenth century ballerinas, 269 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: they're very, very different from the ballerinas of the twenties 270 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: or the nineteen forties. In the nineteen fifties, slender dancers 271 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: all had little shapes, they had wastes. No one in 272 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: New York City ballet in the late sixties or nineteen 273 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: seventies or early eighties had waste They were much more straight, 274 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: and that was what Balanchine apparently wanted. Historian Lyne Garef 275 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: points out it's hard to pin the extreme body standards 276 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: all on balancing. In the sixties and seventies, extreme thinness 277 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: became apparent across the fashion industry. If one picks up 278 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: fashion magazines from the mid nineteen sixties on and you 279 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: see Twiggy. You know this is a moment when the 280 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: beauty industry is saying that thinness is really what is beautiful. 281 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: Either way, Balancing's dancer is worthinner than their predecessors, and 282 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: Balancing pressure dancers to lose weight. One time, he told 283 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: a dancer named Heidi Vostler she was too fat to 284 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: dance the ballet serenad just moments before she had to 285 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: go on stage and perform it. She was so upset 286 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: she could barely get through the steps. Another former dancer, 287 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: Suzanne Farrell, received a letter from Balancing and included a 288 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: personal poem and a ps that read, vote I hope 289 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: by now you are thin and beautiful and light to lift. 290 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,479 Speaker 1: Suzanne later said she felt frightened and hurt. She wrote quote, 291 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: I should have known it. I shouldn't have had to 292 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: be told. I felt stupid and inadequate, and I was 293 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: so upset that I proceeded to try to lose weight 294 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: right there. Thus my life was now hinging on two 295 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: big problems, getting my entrance right and losing weight. Suzanne 296 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: would eventually become Balancin's most famous dancer. His muse he 297 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: was in love with her and her dancing. Soon, younger 298 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: dancers were trying to mold themselves after her. Gelsie Kirkland 299 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: was one of them. She famously wrote about it in 300 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: her memoir Balancing. Teased Gelsey for having a big head. 301 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: Everyone wanted a small head like Susanne. Gelsie was desperate 302 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: to look just like her, Balanchine's favorite ballerina. She wrote, quote, 303 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: he had such an obsession with her face that everybody, 304 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: all of my friends, were trying to imitate the shape 305 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: of her mouth. I went to the dentist and said 306 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: that I want buck teeth, and Gelsie knew she had 307 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: to be thin, she says. Balanchine wrapped his knuckles on 308 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: her stern um and said, must see bones. He did 309 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: not merely say eat less, she says, he repeatedly said 310 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: eat nothing. I think I tried harder to please balancing 311 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: than anybody. The physical cost was that it killed you 312 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: to do it. An interviewer asked her once if Balancine 313 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: cared about her body. She said he cared how it looked, 314 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: not how it felt. When she was too sick to dance, 315 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 1: she writes, Balancine gave her pills. He told her they 316 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: were vitamins, but later she realized they were in phetamines. Eventually, 317 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: Gelsie would depend on drugs to get through her performances, 318 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: and when Balancine thought that her head was too big 319 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: for her body, something she says he pointed out to 320 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: her all the time, I'm she got silicone injections and 321 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: had her ear lopes trimmed. Gelsie said, I starved by day, 322 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: then binged on junk food and threw up by night. 323 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: I took injections of pregnant cow's urine, reputed to be 324 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: a miraculous diet aid. I emptied myself with enemas and 325 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: steam bass, anything to mold the body her boss wanted. 326 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: You might think, based on these clearly desperate measures, that 327 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: Gelsie was unappreciated, but actually no, she was a legend, 328 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: one of Balanchine's favorites, frequently cast in lead roles. But 329 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: these were the kinds of measures she felt she had 330 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: to take. Plenty of dancers resorted to plastic surgery or 331 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: other extreme measures to stay slim. The pressure was real, 332 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: and they knew what was required of them. You eat, sleep, 333 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: and drink ballet. It is first, it's before everything down 334 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: precedes everything. You give your all after balancing, noticed Stephanie. 335 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: He visited her class frequently, often his eyes were on her. 336 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: She couldn't understand why I really was behind and I 337 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,239 Speaker 1: really was not capable of delivering the goods consistently. But 338 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: when I was allowed to do whatever I wanted to 339 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: do in my own particular way, that worked. And then 340 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: he started coming around, and then the teachers would say, 341 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, go to the front of the room, and 342 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: I didn't want to go to the front of the room, 343 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: and I would have practical panic attacks when he would 344 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: come in, and I'd hide, and balancing would start, even 345 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: coming into the back of the studio if I wouldn't 346 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: go forward, whatever he saw, I can't say. What I 347 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: do know is that I haven't over the topness. I've 348 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: been told I don't do things some little ways. So 349 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: I think what he saw was this person that if 350 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: let loose, was going to run. Stephanie was willing to 351 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: go there. When she danced, she didn't hold back. Balancine 352 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: had this thing he said to his dancers all the time. 353 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: People quoted again and again in the middle of rehearsal 354 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: or the middle of class. If a dancer seemed not 355 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: to be giving absolutely everything. He looked at them and say, 356 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: what are you saving for? Dear, where are you gonna lose? 357 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: You're gonna fall down. The floors really close by, and 358 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: so you fall down, you get up. We were trained 359 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: for that risk all, basically risk all, And then I 360 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: got in and I didn't know which way was up. 361 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: H m hm hm. I definitely loved drama. I loved 362 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: heightened experiences, extremities, zig zagging. I don't I don't know 363 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: that I loved it so much as I was drawn 364 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: by it, to it and and embodied that as much 365 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: as possible. Stephanie got into the company when she was eighteen. 366 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: It meant a life of extremes. It was glamorous. And 367 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: then we did a tour and then suddenly I was 368 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: in and I was really in. It was really like quicksamp. 369 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: Being in meant Stephanie had an intense schedule as a 370 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: company member. You'd have morning class at ten am, rehearsals 371 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: all day, get ready for a performance, perform in the evening, 372 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: and finally leave the theater at maybe eleven at night. 373 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: On top of that, you never know your exact schedule 374 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: until the evening before when it would be posted, so 375 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: you can't make plans for your life outside the company 376 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: to be near the studio. All the dancers lived in 377 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: the same area, a stretch of blocks on the upper 378 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: west Side the dancers called the Ballet Belt. Because there 379 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: is very little control of one's life in a company 380 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: that size in terms of casting scheduling, there is a 381 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: feeling of lack of control and a lack of ability 382 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: to make choices for oneself. Decisions about you are being 383 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: made for you, and so what happened was I would 384 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: lash out by going dancing at clubbing, sleep with someone 385 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: and staying up all night. That could be self harming 386 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: in certain ways, but it was a way to work 387 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: out that energy of frustration that I was not getting 388 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: to choose. I think that's a normal Ladlescent behavior, to 389 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: tell you the truth. But my escapes were really physical venting, 390 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: really really physical venting. That was a coping mechanism for me. 391 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: I could feel like you lived or died by what 392 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: balancing thought of you. A dancer named Barbara wall Zach 393 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: wrote about it. She says, I remember talking to him 394 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: once when I must have been about sixteen. He said, 395 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, dear, I know you someday want to dance 396 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: Swan Lake. But you know, if you ever do Swan Lake, 397 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: I will never come to see you, because you will 398 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: be terrible. Barbara writes, I was absolutely destroyed. Still, Barbara 399 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: felt she had to dance for Balancing and not another 400 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: ballet company. Balancing looked through you. When he watched you dance, 401 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: she said, he saw things no one else saw. And 402 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: she says the feel of having him set the steps 403 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: on you, of the music, of the counts, of the 404 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: kind of kinesthetic movement and quality was addictive that dancer. 405 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: Barbara danced with him for fourteen years. When she was 406 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: eventually let go, she says it was so wrenching she 407 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: had a nervous breakdown. The reality was that even if 408 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: you gave everything, you could be fired without warning and 409 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: without explanation. You might hear it directly from someone other 410 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: than balancing that he decided it was time for you 411 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: to leave. You might just get a pink slip in 412 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: the mail. I could be in the wings or the 413 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: studio and feel like phenomenally insecure home and cry and 414 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: just feel that I couldn't possibly ever measure up. But 415 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: the minute I was on stage it felt like another 416 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: him all entirely. I just felt very connected, very alive. 417 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: I loved being on stage, but I love to dance. 418 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: She loved feeling that she was doing something deeper, something important, 419 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: and that was a feeling you had in the company. 420 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: It was more than a job. You were buying into 421 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: a philosophy, a way of life. There was a sense 422 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: you were part of something sacred, like balanching was channeling 423 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: something higher and turning it into steps in front of 424 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: your eyes. That's what it felt like very frequently with 425 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: balancing in the room. It really was. He was just 426 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: like a funnel or a vessel, and like divine inspiration. 427 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and for the observer, looking effortless and very graceful. 428 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: M hmm. I just really feel that I was a 429 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: witness too, and a participant in thing quite unusual and 430 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: rare in the world. Could you tell me about Balancine's philosophy? 431 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, just danced, dear, don't think what does that mean? 432 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: I think it means a myriad of things. If I 433 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: were being narrow or defensive, it would be just so 434 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: that he could get everything precisely as he wanted it, 435 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: and he didn't want the mind or the personal vantage 436 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: point of a dancer to interfere with what he was 437 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: looking for. And yet I also see it as very zam. 438 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: Don't clutter, don't get in your own way. Just danced here, 439 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: Just danced here. Balancine wanted his dancers to be in 440 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: the moment completely, to live like the present was all. 441 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: They had to believe that this moment was of utmost importance, 442 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: and in that way dance at the highest level. Balancing 443 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: was known for choreographing incredibly speedy movement in his ballets. 444 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: It was something the dancers had to train for and 445 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: he drilled them on it incessantly. They had to learn 446 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: to move faster than they ever had before. We had 447 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: to get it into our bones, into our nervous system, 448 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: because it's not a brain process. It's really like a 449 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: trigger finger. He likened it very often to a horse 450 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: when the gun goes off at a race. You have 451 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: to be out of the gate when it starts, not 452 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: thinking about going out of the gate, and you have 453 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: to be ready. We would have classes with pot of 454 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: Ray for a half hour. Oh my gosh, practicing direction, speed, 455 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: weight transfer, being super super quick, and you get the 456 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: thighs to get together faster. The back leg is almost 457 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: the front leg before the front leg even gets a 458 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: chance to start transferring weight. We could have sixty four 459 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: tondos with speed of light front side and back and 460 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: one M, three and four and five, you know, and 461 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: then you could go one and just go and you'd 462 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: have to do it. And if you're not doing it, 463 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: somebody is. That's the other thing about the company. If 464 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: you're not doing it through, somebody replace you. Stephanie learned 465 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: that Balancine might ask you to do just about anything 466 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: in class, even things that seemed impossible. So for example, 467 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: let's say you're jumping. You're doing these little jumps in place, 468 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: straight up into the air, switching your feet from front 469 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: to back and back to front. That's called a changement. 470 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: Then you start jumping higher and you start beating your 471 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: feet together while you're in the air. That's an entra shakat. 472 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: Then you add more beats and notre cise. All of 473 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: us is normal. Usually you'd start these jumps by bending 474 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: your knees a little what's called a plier, a small 475 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: knee bend. Usually you have a small, little one, and 476 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: you practice your little beats and you land. But he's 477 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: famous for giving what we call a grand pliers into chasse, 478 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: and that's a big knee bend. Okay, what we called 479 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: fifth position. Instead of bending your knees a little, you 480 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: crouch next to the floor. In fifth position. In a 481 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: grand plier, your legs are flattened to the sides and 482 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: you're balancing on the balls of your feet. And from 483 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: that almost torturus thigh burning position, you're supposed to jump 484 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: all the way up into the air to three beats, 485 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: beating your feet together while you're in the air and landing. 486 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: He would do it out of these extreme positions just 487 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: to see even if you had the volition to do it. Wow. 488 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: It was also a test of are you a patriot? 489 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: Are you a citizen? Are you willing to do these 490 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: unheard of things? Are you willing to do whatever I 491 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: ask you to do? Set yourself beyond the margins of 492 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: safety and it might actually be possible. Yeah. Sometimes when 493 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: I'm explaining to people that were not exposed to this 494 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: into that particular culture, I laugh at my former self, 495 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: because not only would you want to demonstrate something when 496 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: he asked for it, you would show that you were 497 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: excited about showing that you were showing you're showing your 498 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: fervor kind of exactly you were demonstrating your fervor. It 499 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: was layer on layer on layer of energy for revolution. Yeah, 500 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: it's like you have to demonstrate your passion for the 501 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: art and your your reverence for it. Just being there 502 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: is not enough. You have to really amplify it to 503 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: let it be known in the visible world. He would 504 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: request things that could be almost undoable, and most of 505 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: it was really challenging our willingness to risk. It was 506 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: really about risk and and passing through any kind of 507 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: imagined limitations or real limitations, doing the impossible. M hm. 508 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: The dancers learned it was music first, choreography second, you third, 509 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: the dancers were in service to the music and to ballet. 510 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: Too many in the audience, it was Balancine who was 511 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: the star. He stood in the wings every single performance. 512 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: He was always in the front wing, watching and waiting 513 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: to be either surprised, entertained, intrigued or otherwise I suppose. 514 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: But he was always in the wing. So we were 515 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: always not not only literally on our toes, but we 516 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: were always aware of his part in our lives mm hmm, 517 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: and his part in your lives being what exactly ever present, Yeah, 518 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: ever observing, ever present, and also realizing that we were 519 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: we were taking part in something that was his creation, 520 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: that was run by his aesthetic, and that the criteria 521 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: was to be met to the absolute best of our ability. 522 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: In all moments, He was God in the theater. And 523 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: in fact, I don't know if I told you that 524 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: when the theater apparently was built, you know, we only 525 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: had windows and very little slipper windows on the fourth 526 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: floor in the offices. There are no windows otherwise because 527 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: basically we don't need windows because the outside world doesn't matter. 528 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: We are not part of the outside world. Wow, It's 529 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: separate from us, and we are removed from it. And 530 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: once you go downstairs into the theater, enter through the 531 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: stage entrance, and go into the studios, the dressing rooms 532 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: in the stage, there is no need for the outside 533 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: world because we are removed from it and apart from 534 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: it and in our own unique sphere, we had our 535 00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: own universe. YEA. The Turning is a production of Rococo 536 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: Punch and I Heart Podcasts. It's written and produced by 537 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: Allen Lance Lesser and me. Our story editor is Emily Foreman. 538 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: Mixing and sound designed by James trout. Jessica Carissa is 539 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: our assistant producer. Andrea Swage is our digital producer, fact 540 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Our executive producers are John 541 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: Parotti and Jessica Albert. At Rococo Punch, I Get Trina 542 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: Norvelle and Nicki e Tor at I Hard Podcasts. For 543 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: photos and more details on the series, follow us on 544 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out via 545 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: email The Turning at Rococo Punch dot com. M I'm 546 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: Erica Lance. Thanks for listening. M.