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Speaker 1: What's up his way up at Angela Yee.

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Speaker 2: This is exciting today because this is an occupation I've

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Speaker 2: never heard of. But I think after reading this book,

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Speaker 2: we can see why something like this is so important.

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Speaker 2: Darnelle La Mott Walker's here and you are a death

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Speaker 2: do yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right now.

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Speaker 1: As soon as I say that to somebody, they're like,

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Speaker 1: what is that?

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Speaker 2: So if you have to explain to people listening what

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Speaker 2: a death doula is, what would you say?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So first I just say, you know, I'm the

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Speaker 4: person who helps people die, so that pretty much shocks

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Speaker 4: the system. But then I say, you know, I'm there

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Speaker 4: to support the person and the family at the end

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Speaker 4: of life and throughout the transition, throughout the grief at

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Speaker 4: the core of it. That's what it is.

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Speaker 2: And you have a book out now called Never Can

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Speaker 2: Say Goodbye. The Life of a Death Doulah and the

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Speaker 2: Art of a Peaceful End. And you know, it's interesting

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Speaker 2: to me because death is something that's inevitable for everybody, right.

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Speaker 2: There are some things in life that we know we

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Speaker 2: got to do. They say, pay taxes and die and

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Speaker 2: die and those are two things that have to happen.

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Speaker 2: And this is something that you were a death douler

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Speaker 2: before you even knew what it was called for.

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Speaker 4: I think so many of us were. You know, I

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Speaker 4: learned from my grandmother who'd been doing this work for decades.

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Speaker 4: She had never heard the term. She died before anyone

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Speaker 4: used it that I knew, But back then it was

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Speaker 4: just this is what we do for family, this is

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Speaker 4: what we do for friends. We take care of each other.

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Speaker 4: We come from a long lineage of people who have

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Speaker 4: taken care of each other, and this essentially that's what

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Speaker 4: I do now. I don't do anything different than I

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Speaker 4: did when I before I heard the term.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, watching my mom.

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Speaker 4: Take care of a cousin who came home to die

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Speaker 4: of age, my grandmother do the same on the other

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Speaker 4: side of the family. That's the work too, holding someone's

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Speaker 4: hand and sometimes not even through death loss, but just

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Speaker 4: through grief, of losing a job, of losing a relationship.

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Speaker 3: It's all of that. So all that's the work.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: In the book, there's one part where you talk about

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Speaker 2: your grandmother, who was really important in your life, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and you say that she told you. She went on

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Speaker 2: to tell me that when Hamburger's with gravy and country

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Speaker 2: fry potatoes lost their flavor, and when she could no

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Speaker 2: longer play cards with the folks, she sit around her

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Speaker 2: living room table with almost daily slapping down cards and

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Speaker 2: coins while accusing each other of cheating. She'd be ready

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Speaker 2: to go before the old folks home gets me, she said.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and those were those conversations were so

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Speaker 4: important to me because it kind of I think we

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Speaker 4: all need to have that threshold where it's like, when

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Speaker 4: I can no longer do this, this is when I

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Speaker 4: want to leave. And you know, my wish for everyone

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Speaker 4: is that we leave we were able to leave when

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Speaker 4: we're ready to leave, But unfortunately that's not true.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: But because I knew that about my grandmother when she

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Speaker 4: was in hospice and things weren't looking good. She had

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Speaker 4: stopped eating, she wasn't responsive, I knew she was ready

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Speaker 4: to go. And sometimes people need that permission to go

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Speaker 4: and thank and so I'm thankful for those conversations because

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Speaker 4: I knew that those things were no longer.

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Speaker 3: Possible, and I had to be the one.

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Speaker 4: I was the last person to see her in there,

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Speaker 4: and I had to be the one to say listen.

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Speaker 4: So if I said, today, it looks like a really

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Speaker 4: good day to die. There's no one left to come

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Speaker 4: see you. You've done an amazing job. If you want

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Speaker 4: to die today, you should do it. And I know

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Speaker 4: you don't want to do it. While I'm here, I'm

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Speaker 4: a player song. I played Cold Place, Fix You, and

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Speaker 4: I played it and then I left. In fifteen minutes,

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Speaker 4: I drove to my dad's house, walked in, the phone rang,

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Speaker 4: and I knew who it was. It was the hospice

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Speaker 4: saying she died.

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Speaker 1: Is that also somewhat being an intuitive you think?

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Speaker 4: I think so, like having seen it so many times before,

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Speaker 4: I think, you know when people are I think one

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Speaker 4: people know when they're going to go in many cases,

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Speaker 4: or at least.

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Speaker 3: The body knows. The body knows how to die. And so.

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Speaker 4: Watching what she was going through, she wasn't eating before

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Speaker 4: she stops talking. She talked about how her mother would come,

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Speaker 4: and her mother died many years ago. And a lot

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Speaker 4: of times I see that with a lot of clients,

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Speaker 4: where a spirit may come into the room and they're

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Speaker 4: talking to them, you know, And so all of these

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Speaker 4: things adding up, it's like, oh, she's waiting for something,

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Speaker 4: and maybe today would be the time to let go.

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Speaker 4: So it's kind of intuitive and just kind of I

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Speaker 4: want you to stop suffering too. So it's selfless in

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Speaker 4: a way because I love my grandmothers are global treasures.

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Speaker 4: We all love our grandmothers. And I didn't want her

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Speaker 4: to go, but I knew she needed to.

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Speaker 2: I always look at it too, when it comes to

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Speaker 2: grandparents and even your parents, you always want them to

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Speaker 2: go before you do, because I couldn't imagine the pain

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Speaker 2: that a parent would feel, or a grandparent would feel

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Speaker 2: if you go before them, because of the order of

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Speaker 2: how things should happen.

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Speaker 4: No, absolutely, like we we all, none of us want

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Speaker 4: to lose our parents, you know, those loving you know,

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Speaker 4: especially when they're loving and they're supportive and they've been

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Speaker 4: there our whole life, but also knowing the pain they

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Speaker 4: would go through. And we've seen mothers lose lose their children.

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Speaker 4: We've seen it, oh, and we see it too often.

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Speaker 4: That's the grief we constantly live in, especially as black folks,

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Speaker 4: and we know that pain.

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Speaker 3: So it's let me let.

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Speaker 4: You go if you have to. And because I have

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Speaker 4: a son now he's twenty one, I could not.

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Speaker 2: Imagine you, yeah, could not, and he would never want

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Speaker 2: you to have to go through something like that. Another

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Speaker 2: thing that you talk about is how black men when

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Speaker 2: it comes to a death do Usually somebody will refer

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Speaker 2: you because it's not something they seek out necessarily.

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Speaker 3: It's sad to see.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's always a family member, always someone who calls

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Speaker 4: me for them because what I found and we heard

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Speaker 4: is so we've heard it so many times. I got

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Speaker 4: to be the rock of the family. I have to

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Speaker 4: be the strong one trying to run from those emotions,

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Speaker 4: all the things that black men avoid in life. Like

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Speaker 4: my dad even will not talk about death. We will

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Speaker 4: not talk about it. And so when I get called

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Speaker 4: in the first thing I have to do is try

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Speaker 4: to create a space where they can feel safe enough

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Speaker 4: to be able to express these things. And it doesn't

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Speaker 4: take long. Sometimes it just takes a hug or the

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Speaker 4: touch that they can't that they haven't received because they've

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Speaker 4: pretended to be the strong person for so long. But

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Speaker 4: and in that they don't get to grieve themselves, you know.

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Speaker 4: So they die and they never got the chance to cry,

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Speaker 4: never got the chance to be held, never got the

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Speaker 4: chance to be touched the way they needed to be touched.

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Speaker 4: And so a lot of my work is trying to

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Speaker 4: fix that.

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Speaker 2: You know, you have some extraordinary stories in this book

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Speaker 2: of situations that have happened. And one of the stories

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Speaker 2: that you talk about is leon and you talk about

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Speaker 2: going to Burning Man, which I commend.

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Speaker 1: You for that.

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Speaker 2: Have you been no, it's not for you, Well yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think it's for everybody. I was just think it's

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Speaker 3: for everybody.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear about bird.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 1: Why is that something that you feel like, thank you

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Speaker 1: for everybody?

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Speaker 4: For me, it's like this, it's this chance that we

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Speaker 4: we create this society that's just perfect. Money doesn't exist.

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Speaker 4: It's just love.

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Speaker 3: It's bartering, people feed you. You know.

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Speaker 4: It's like and it's you walk you walked through the

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Speaker 4: desert at night and somebody's like, hey, do you need

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Speaker 4: a hug? Absolutely I do. And I have this little

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Speaker 4: bracelet I love to give you.

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Speaker 3: Do you need a shirt? I have this too. And

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Speaker 3: it's like an amazing time.

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Speaker 4: It's art, it's music, it's DJ's from night till the

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Speaker 4: break of dawn. And if you want to sleep all day,

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Speaker 4: or if you want to go out during the day

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Speaker 4: and look at the art and just connect with the people,

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Speaker 4: it's it's all of that and I have a great camp.

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Speaker 4: And and yes, that is where I met Leon, who man,

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Speaker 4: he's a kid in his twenties. He came over and

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Speaker 4: it was you probably heard about the mud year, the

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Speaker 4: year it rained and poured down and everyone was trying

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Speaker 4: to escape but we couldn't.

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Speaker 3: We were stuck there for a few days.

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Speaker 4: Still still a great I think Chris Rock got a

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Speaker 4: helicopter out of there, but we he came over. Is

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Speaker 4: there something the toilets for bakdupt? So I'm not I'm

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Speaker 4: not selling it to you, but yeah, so he comes

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Speaker 4: over and he's one of those guys who he's a

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Speaker 4: lot of fun, you know.

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Speaker 3: He we'd all been drinking.

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Speaker 4: We said, we're having a good time in the desert

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Speaker 4: and me and him are going back and forth with

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Speaker 4: like fun like he was asshole kind of but a

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Speaker 4: fun one, you know, like my like my best friend,

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Speaker 4: I know these people, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 4: we having a good time. And then I had to

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Speaker 4: go to a whitting Houston party, me and some friends.

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Speaker 4: So we were like, oh yeah, I talked to you later.

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Speaker 4: But right before I left, this guy came up with

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Speaker 4: his bike. We couldn't ride. It was mud and Leon

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Speaker 4: helped the guy change out of these wet clothes that

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Speaker 4: he was in, and I just thought, like, after all

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Speaker 4: these after all this asshole ness and jokes and whatnot,

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Speaker 4: I thought that was such a beautiful moment. And so

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Speaker 4: I just snapped a photo and the light was hitting

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Speaker 4: just right, and I snapped a photo and we walked

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Speaker 4: and came back, and everyone at the camp was, you know,

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Speaker 4: pretty down about something.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking, you know, what happened, And they're.

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Speaker 4: Like, oh, well, someone died here, not a part of

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Speaker 4: our camp, but just died right over here. And I'm

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Speaker 4: going through and I show up in a lot of

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Speaker 4: places where I'm not a deathdol in a space, but

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Speaker 4: I turn into that. And so I find myself going

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Speaker 4: to you know, camp mats and consoling them and talking

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Speaker 4: to them and figuring out what happened. And one says, oh,

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Speaker 4: you know the guy. You were talking to him right

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Speaker 4: before you left, the young guy. And I'm like no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: no no no. And instantly I thought, man, when will

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Speaker 4: his parents get this news? When will his family hear

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Speaker 4: about this? We're stuck out here is the body. It's

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Speaker 4: like all of that, you know, And back to the

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Speaker 4: parent in me, it's what would I want to know

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Speaker 4: about my kids last moments?

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Speaker 3: And hadn't thought about the photo. I got to.

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Speaker 4: Bed that night and I'm going through my phone and

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking, oh, I think I have the last picture

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Speaker 4: of this guy. And immediately when I got back to civilization,

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Speaker 4: it was I have to find his people. They created

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Speaker 4: a GoFundMe is how I found a cousin of his

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Speaker 4: who led me to face book that led me to

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Speaker 4: his mom and I said, you know, if this was

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Speaker 4: my child, this is what I would want to know.

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Speaker 4: And I reached out to her and she and it

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Speaker 4: was just this for hours, going back and forth just

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Speaker 4: to you know, thank you so much. And it's sometimes

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Speaker 4: it's what we need to hear.

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Speaker 3: It.

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Speaker 4: It's the closure we need sometimes because we don't know

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Speaker 4: someone's last moments, and if someone was there for those,

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Speaker 4: it can be shared and I think, you know, it

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Speaker 4: should be and I'm so grateful that we were able to.

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Speaker 1: Do that for her and her family right and share

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Speaker 1: that picture.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's also nice to know, like because

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Speaker 2: I think when somebody dies in there alone and nobody

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Speaker 2: knows what those last you know, moments were like, and

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Speaker 2: I know they share with you my brother.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I need a minute.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you time please.

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Speaker 1: And so my brother was by himself.

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Speaker 2: He had an aneurysm, and it was so sudden, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, what happened, Like was he suffering for a

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Speaker 2: long time? Was he laying there? So it was nice

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Speaker 2: that a lot of people were sending me messages about,

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Speaker 2: you know, just how amazing he was. Even people I

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Speaker 2: never met, like the woman where he parked his car

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's the first of the month. He

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Speaker 2: would always bring me cake and he didn't come, and

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Speaker 2: I had no idea what happened, and you know, so

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Speaker 2: I was missing that. And then people in the neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: you know, his landlord, like everybody was just showing up

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Speaker 2: and talking about how great he was. One of his

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Speaker 2: neighbors was telling me about she sent me an email

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Speaker 2: about how which he moved in the building and she

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Speaker 2: was really nervous to move to New York and how

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Speaker 2: helpful my brother was in that process. And she had

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Speaker 2: like a date with somebody she met on an app

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Speaker 2: and he went with her and sat at the bar

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Speaker 2: while she had the date, just to make sure she

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Speaker 2: was okay, you know. And then when it was over,

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Speaker 2: he made sure she got back, you know, just really

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Speaker 2: nice things that.

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Speaker 1: He never told me about.

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Speaker 2: But I got to hear those stories from other people,

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Speaker 2: and it didn't really.

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Speaker 1: Help me a lot.

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Speaker 3: I love that so much. Can we say your brother's.

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Speaker 1: Name, Brian right on?

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Speaker 3: I appreciate it. Thanks for sharing that.

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Speaker 4: I talk so much about how everyone has to show

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Speaker 4: up for the funeral, right and that it doesn't have

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Speaker 4: to be the actual funeral.

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Speaker 3: But we need those stories.

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Speaker 4: We none of us you know, we don't, we know

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Speaker 4: we none of us know someone completely. You know that

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Speaker 4: reducess to life so much to say, oh I know

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Speaker 4: everything about them, No, we don't. And so it's good

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Speaker 4: to know that he brought that lady a cake, you know,

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Speaker 4: at the beginning, to sit on a date with this woman.

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Speaker 4: It's like, oh, he was that too, and so we

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Speaker 4: need that and it's so it's so important. Yeah, thanks

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Speaker 4: for sharing that about.

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Speaker 1: Him, you know.

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Speaker 2: And even like with my parents, my brother is a

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Speaker 2: really thoughtful person and so he's always doing stuff for them,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, dang.

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Speaker 1: I can't I can't compete with like the little.

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Speaker 2: Things that he would do, like showing up at my

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Speaker 2: mom's job and bringing her like, you know, some special

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Speaker 2: bread that she likes.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what that bread is. I have

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Speaker 1: to tell my mom.

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Speaker 2: I was like, listen, just getting ready for a downgrade.

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Speaker 2: Bring some wonder over to the it's not going to happen,

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Speaker 2: some you, some cupcakes, whatever it is I need to do.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I also it was when I was

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Speaker 2: reading this boocause I actually was reading it on the

301
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Speaker 2: train and I was like, I gotta.

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Speaker 1: Put it down because it was her.

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Speaker 2: Because I was like, I'm reading all these different stories

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Speaker 2: and I'm imagining the pain that people feel when they're

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Speaker 2: going through circumstances, like you had a friend who lost

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Speaker 2: his girlfriend, and you know when that happens and it's

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Speaker 2: so sudden and it's like she's not answering the phone

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Speaker 2: and you're you don't think anything of it, and then

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Speaker 2: that's always like the worst case scenario of something like

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Speaker 2: that happened. But I also think it matters how it happens,

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Speaker 2: because I remember when we went to my brother's apartment

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Speaker 2: and we were waiting for the police to come and

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Speaker 2: they were like, it's still an open investigation until they

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Speaker 2: can get the cause of death.

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Speaker 1: That was something that I.

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Speaker 2: Hadn't even thought of. I was like, did somebody break

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Speaker 2: in here and kill you know, because.

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Speaker 3: You get all kinds and you have to think about that.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, that would have been awful because

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Speaker 2: I would hate for it to have happened that way.

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Speaker 2: And I think about how much worse it is when

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Speaker 2: when people die, these tragic deaths, you know, in that way.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and you know, it leaves us with so many questions.

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Speaker 4: It leaves us with so many things that we just

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Speaker 4: may not ever know, and it's and that's hard, but

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Speaker 4: I do, you know, I do love and I believe you.

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Speaker 4: You spoke about it on your show, you know, following

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Speaker 4: that following your brother's death, of how important it is

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Speaker 4: to plan and having these conversations now because waiting, we

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Speaker 4: know what. We all know what happens when we wait.

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Speaker 4: You know, families have fallen apart. We're left with before

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Speaker 4: we can get to the grieving, before we can get

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Speaker 4: to the our real emotions and be held and be

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Speaker 4: in community with people, we have to go through the

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Speaker 4: logistics of holl let me go back to the police

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Speaker 4: station and talk to the funeral home. And now I

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Speaker 4: got to get this and especially if we don't have

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Speaker 4: much help, especially if we haven't already built that community,

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Speaker 4: and it's just us, which sounds like that was a

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Speaker 4: lot of that is yours, uh, that you were going

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Speaker 4: through your responsibility and so, you know, stressing the importance

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Speaker 4: of talking to whoever I loved ones are and sometimes

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Speaker 4: that's not family. I tell these things all my friends.

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Speaker 4: My friends probably know how I want to die more

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Speaker 4: than my family know how I want to.

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Speaker 3: Die, because we have to do it now, and because

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Speaker 3: we don't know.

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Speaker 4: I get on social media every day and someone you know,

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Speaker 4: on my way here, I get on there and I

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Speaker 4: see that someone I knew died right, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh.

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Speaker 1: And literally like all the time, all the time, and.

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Speaker 3: So and it could be any of us on the

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Speaker 3: way to work and we want to die. I was

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Speaker 3: gonna ask you that first. But for.

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Speaker 4: Me, I want the deathbed. I want the I want

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Speaker 4: to be there surrounded by people I love coming in

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Speaker 4: one at a time. I got music lined up, I

359
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 4: have a playlist, I have the foods. Well, my granddad

360
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,720
Speaker 4: was dying a big I was there for him, and

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Speaker 4: a big part of what we did was finding all

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Speaker 4: those foods he loved as a kid, and he's like,

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Speaker 4: you remember those pe cam pin wheels.

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Speaker 3: You remember I used to eat grabs. I used to

365
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Speaker 3: do this, and I'm like, I can find it.

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Speaker 4: I can find that somebody has it, and I'd go

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Speaker 4: out to these little corner stores and bring them back

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Speaker 4: and we would sit there and eat snacks.

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Speaker 3: I want that.

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Speaker 4: I want to have those final moments where people can

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Speaker 4: say or ask me anything they want to ask, and

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Speaker 4: we're all just honest. I think that's important. I know

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Speaker 4: so many people wanted to be instant or in their sleep.

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Speaker 4: I think that. I think that's beautiful too. I think

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Speaker 4: death is just can be a beautiful thing. But I

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Speaker 4: want that that dramatic ending that we see on TV

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00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 4: and seeing movies and reading books.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's I would like to

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Speaker 2: know it's coming so that I can be as prepared

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Speaker 2: as possible and everybody else can to. I always think

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Speaker 2: about what I want my funeral to be like that, okay,

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Speaker 2: because I definitely would like to have like a DJ

383
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Speaker 2: open bar, you know, I want it to be fun, right.

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Speaker 4: I always ask people, what, what's the what song do

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Speaker 4: you want to play at that moment, at the moment

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Speaker 4: of death.

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Speaker 2: You know, interesting because I did a playlist for my

388
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,680
Speaker 2: brother's funerals, okay, and people were appreciative of it, but

389
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Speaker 2: sometimes when them slower songs came on, it was really depressing.

390
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 2: I was like, maybe I should have made it a

391
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Speaker 2: little more upbeat, because it feels like it's supposed to

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Speaker 2: be wrong to be doing that, even though I know

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Speaker 2: we have repass and things like that. So I think

394
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Speaker 2: I now that I have to look back in retrospect,

395
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Speaker 2: I probably wanted to be a little more upbeat.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know, then I had it right though. It's

397
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Speaker 1: fun and.

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Speaker 2: Then I definitely I think the drinks were good. My

399
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Speaker 2: aunt told me, she said, this is the best funeral

400
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 2: I've ever been to. Well, the wake, she said, the wake,

401
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 2: which I thought was interesting.

402
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,879
Speaker 1: But I know my brother would like that.

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Speaker 4: I love that, like we know people, we know how

404
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 4: people and what they want, and it doesn't have to

405
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 4: be that sad because.

406
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Speaker 2: We think about traditionally, you know, everybody's crying, everybody's sad.

407
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 2: But this in particular didn't feel as heavy. It felt

408
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: like people were happy to see each other. You know,

409
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 2: it had its moments, but it also was a lot

410
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 2: of chatter and a lot of people came out, and

411
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 2: I think that was nice too, to see all different

412
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 2: kinds of people, whether it was for my parents, my family,

413
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 2: it was for me, and then it was for my

414
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 2: brother also, and I think all my really good friends

415
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 2: were also friends with my brother, you know.

416
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: So people were like flying in just seeing that.

417
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Speaker 2: And I also understood when people couldn't make it, because

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00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 2: I'm not the type of person to be like, oh

419
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 2: my god, I can't believe you didn't come. I was

420
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 2: fine with that, you know, And so I just think

421
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 2: it's just the time that I also wanted to get past.

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Speaker 4: No, absolutely, and I love what you said about just

423
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Speaker 4: you know, traditionally we sit in sadness, right because a

424
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 4: lot of times we feel guilty for and I think

425
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 4: it's important to let people know that so many so

426
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 4: often we feel guilty for being happy. We feel guilty

427
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 4: for the joy that we're experiencing, and we shouldn't like

428
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 4: that's that's important. We feel that that's real, and we

429
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,679
Speaker 4: know the person your brother would have appreciated that, you

430
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 4: know that. So it's good to laugh and and not

431
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 4: sit in that funk.

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Speaker 3: You know.

433
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got one I thought about to kill.

434
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 4: That was like.

435
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 3: Trying to find it.

436
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: You know.

437
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: Another thing, there's a story you tell early on in

438
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 2: the book and it is about Larry.

439
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Maurice.

440
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 4: I think that's my favorite story more so because it's

441
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 4: about the loneliness and people not being able to one

442
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 4: love who they want to love but also express their love.

443
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 3: And it's it's I see it so often.

444
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 4: And we were raised in generations, but we were raised

445
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 4: by generations that had the these special.

446
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,360
Speaker 3: Friends and you know, and all that.

447
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 4: And to see this man sitting in the back of

448
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,239
Speaker 4: this funeral for a man that he couldn't grieve and

449
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 4: he would have to go home alone and go through

450
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 4: this by himself, when everyone else there had someone to

451
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 4: hold them to get them through. That was gonna that

452
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 4: was going to be a painful, painful experience, you know.

453
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 4: And just to go through that story quickly for those

454
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 4: who haven't read the book or may want to get it.

455
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 4: But I went to a funeral as a photographer and

456
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 4: ended up being a death doula in a way to

457
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 4: a man who was the partner of the man who died,

458
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 4: and they were in there. The man who died was

459
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 4: in his eighties for sure, and Larry may have.

460
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: Been ten years younger, and people didn't know.

461
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 4: And people didn't know, and because even in the story

462
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 4: she's telling at the mic during the eulogy, she's like,

463
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,479
Speaker 4: you know, I'm just thankful for Larry for helping him

464
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 4: take care of this place as the groundskeeper for the

465
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 4: last you know. And I'm sitting there looking at Larry

466
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 4: in the back, like, oh, no, it's more. It's more

467
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 4: than And even if you know, I wasn't one hundred

468
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 4: percent short, but it was pretty obvious, and so I said,

469
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 4: I need to stay behind and just talk to him

470
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 4: and at least offer him a hug in the end.

471
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 4: And it's exactly what he needed. And I'm glad I

472
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 4: could do that for him, but so many of us.

473
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 4: I just got a call two weeks ago now from

474
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 4: a friend whose sister was with her boyfriend when he

475
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 4: when he died, and she's like, what can I do

476
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 4: to be there? And I'm giving her ideas and what

477
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 4: I do, and I'm like, well, maybe your sister, you know,

478
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 4: helping with the funeral. That helps with closure and doing

479
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 4: this and talking with the family and building community. And

480
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 4: she says no one knew about their relationship. He was

481
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 4: separated from his wife, and I'm like, oh, and so

482
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 4: now she this man she was with for three years,

483
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 4: she has to hide. She can't go to the funeral. Wow,

484
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 4: she can't like none of the things that we are

485
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 4: usually able to do. And it's how do you what

486
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 4: should she do it? I was like, just go there

487
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 4: and hold her, Go there and be present, Go feet her,

488
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 4: put lotion on her feet, whatever that is.

489
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 3: But it's about being present.

490
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 4: And I think if we are witnesses to people's lives

491
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 4: and we know people. You knew your brother, and it's

492
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 4: if we watch people, we know what they need.

493
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 3: You know.

494
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 2: It's interesting a story like that because it makes me

495
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 2: think of someone had told me a story about their

496
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: father passing, and their father had like a double life

497
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: and he had like a whole nother woman that he

498
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: was involved with, which they didn't find out until he

499
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: was dying, okay, and he had cancer. While he was

500
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: in the hospital, he actually asked his wife, can this

501
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: other woman come and see me before I die? Because

502
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 2: I love her too. His wife said no, absolutely not.

503
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: And she also had children not by him, who were

504
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 2: very affected by that. And that's a really interesting situation

505
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: and difficult one to navigate.

506
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 3: It's hard. It's hard to navigate. And it's.

507
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 4: What I think, you know, it's all it's up to

508
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 4: whoever's in that situation. I think we have to honor

509
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 4: the person who's at the end of their life. I

510
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 4: truly believe that in the work I do is I'm

511
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: here to honor the person who is actively dying or

512
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 4: the person who called me in. And in that case,

513
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 4: she should have called that woman and had her there

514
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 4: and so she could have closure too, because now she

515
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 4: won't get you know that, and he and he loved

516
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: her also. You know.

517
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: One thing that the wife also said was the fact

518
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 2: that she found this out helped her be able to

519
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: move on after he died, because she would have felt

520
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 2: really guilty moving on, but because she knew while he

521
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: was alive this because it was like a decades long deception.

522
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what was really hard.

523
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: And I think as the wife, she felt like, you

524
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: knew he was married, you knew you were a secret

525
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 2: all this time.

526
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: You know how I dare you?

527
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

528
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: Right now, it's really I mean to me and we

529
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: see all this all the time, right, somebody dies and

530
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 2: then it comes out that they had this going on.

531
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: They had that going on also, and it's such a

532
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: delicate time for these secrets to be revealed.

533
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: Oh. Absolutely.

534
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 4: There's even this one obituary I share often. This man died,

535
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 4: I can't tell you Pennsylvania, Ohio. But there are two

536
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: obituaries right next to each other, one that the wife

537
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 4: put in and one that the girlfriend put in. And

538
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 4: it's the same photo, same photo, and it reads like, oh,

539
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 4: he leaves behind his loving wife and his kids and

540
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 4: so and so, and then the other is like he

541
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 4: leaves behind his special friends, and.

542
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 3: You know, it's like okay.

543
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: But that's why another reason why getting your affairs in

544
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: order is important, because if you have this double life

545
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: that you live and you want to make sure both

546
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: people are taking care of, it won't happen.

547
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you know.

548
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 4: You have to talk about But I had a you know,

549
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 4: not to take a much more time, but I had

550
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 4: a brother who died doing something he absolutely had no

551
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 4: business doing with his fiance's sister.

552
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: Whoa die and we're all And he didn't die right away.

553
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: He was in a coma.

554
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 4: So I get to the hospital and the sisters, you know,

555
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 4: the fiance is there and she's telling me this story

556
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 4: and I'm like, Okay, you know she has one version,

557
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 4: but I know the honest version is that everyone else

558
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: And it's like, you don't want to die that way,

559
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: you don't want to die that way, but also you

560
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 4: want to plan.

561
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 3: We are.

562
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 4: Whatever that is, and we are seemingly I hope everyone,

563
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 4: me and you and everyone here has years left, but

564
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 4: we don't know.

565
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 3: So why aren't we talking about it with the people

566
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 3: we love? Now?

567
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: You know in this book you also say death for

568
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: many black folks is a subject often left on the

569
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: table in touch. There's not even so much as a

570
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: whisper about it. I've been a conscious witness to this

571
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 2: avoidance since I was nine years old, and maybe long

572
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: before that. After more than three decades, it no longer

573
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: baffles me. But I would love to see that change.

574
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: So what are the changes that you are seeing? And

575
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: how can we help make that change?

576
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: Oh?

577
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 4: The changes, the changes that are happening are beautiful. I mean,

578
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 4: even being here now, this wasn't happening ten years ago.

579
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: People weren't talking about death. What I was seeing then

580
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 4: was just it was I come from a big family,

581
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 4: but it was just me and my grandmother. On my

582
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 4: dad's side, they would talk about it, and me and

583
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 4: my mom on my mom's side, they would talk about

584
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 4: it even though people were dying constantly. Now we're having

585
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 4: these conversations we are we're at brunch talking about, oh.

586
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: Well, how you know, how do you want to die?

587
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: There are games now, card decks like the death Deck,

588
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 4: where people can go and just sit around and play

589
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 4: fun games, asking questions about how do you want this

590
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 4: to happen for you? We even, you know, like we're

591
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 4: talking sharing recommendations for therapy at brunch. So you know,

592
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 4: it's like, these are real conversations because we want to

593
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 4: be different, We want to we are so much more

594
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 4: open and I want us to and we're so much

595
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: more vulnerable than generations before us. And so you know,

596
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 4: I'm just happy to be a part of the group

597
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 4: of folks who are creating these conversations. Like even my dad,

598
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 4: like I said, my dad does not want to talk

599
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 4: about death. Ever I find ways to sneak him into

600
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 4: the conversation. He had a friend and his best friend

601
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 4: was in the hospice with pancreatic cancer, and I was like,

602
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 4: are you going to see him?

603
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, I can't go up there.

604
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 4: I was like, this is your best friend. What do

605
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 4: you want people to do when you are in this situation?

606
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 4: You know, And but so many people thought, you know,

607
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 4: just talking about death will bring it, bring it on,

608
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 4: and so you know, bringing people into these conversations and

609
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 4: saying listen, planning is love. The more we talk about this,

610
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 4: the more we plan it, the more we can actually

611
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: get to the holding each other in the community building.

612
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 4: But we have to be able to talk about it.

613
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 4: There families now putting their wills together. They advanced directives

614
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 4: because they saw what happened when their mother, when their

615
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 4: mother and father died, and it's like we fell apart.

616
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: You know, I haven't seen cousins in years. You know.

617
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 4: I did my even me, I did my launch for

618
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 4: this book at my hometown. A few family members showed

619
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 4: up because most of them don't want to talk about this,

620
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 4: have this conversation, and so it's let's just do it

621
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 4: really fast. Let's spend the day talking about it, planning

622
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: it out, and then we can get to the rest

623
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 4: of our life if we like. You know, I'm a

624
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 4: person who's fortunate enough to I say fortunate enough, but

625
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: I was diagnosed with the blood clotting disorder that almost

626
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: killed me when I was twenty two, and so now

627
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 4: I take a pill every day for it. But every

628
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 4: time I take that pill, I also have to realize

629
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 4: that I'm going to die one day, and with that

630
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 4: thought comes, well, I need to do a lot of

631
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: living before that. As long as I taken this pill,

632
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 4: that means I still have life.

633
00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: Cool.

634
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 4: Let me do a lot of living today while I

635
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: still have it. And so that's where we're going. It's

636
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: people who are open to facing that mortality and realizing

637
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: that it's helping shape how they live.

638
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: And you know, I want to say, another thing that's

639
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: important is supporting people who are dealing with a loss

640
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: close to them because a lot of us don't know

641
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: how to do that too.

642
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: And that's how really you got started in this in

643
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: this business. Yeah, and it is a business too.

644
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 2: So for somebody that's listening and they're like, Okay, Like

645
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: my friend Tella, her mother just passed and the funerals

646
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: actually this weekend, and I told her, I said, what

647
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: do you need? And I know you've said, like a

648
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 2: lot of times, people don't know what they need until

649
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: you know there's so much going on, they're not even

650
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: sure where to start. What are some things you would

651
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: tell people that they can do to be supportive in

652
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: that situation.

653
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 4: Well, absolutely, it's being present, Like being present is the

654
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: most important thing. Showing up knowing that you're not there

655
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 4: to fix anything you don't. There's no right thing to say,

656
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 4: wrong thing to say. You know, it's I'm here and

657
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 4: being We all want to be loved, but we all

658
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 4: want to be witnessed also, and so I'm here for you.

659
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 4: If we don't even talk, I will sit on the

660
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 4: other end of the couch. That's fine, But it's also

661
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 4: holding a hand, grabbing the drink. My friend Michelle I

662
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 4: talked about her in the book, her mother, Delphine died.

663
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: You know, we all went to school together, and so

664
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: a bunch of us got together and just bought gift

665
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 4: cards for restaurants because we were like, she's probably not

666
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 4: eating the way she should be. We got her a

667
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 4: spa day. You know, all of that. That's doing the

668
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 4: work too, but really just showing up saying I don't

669
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 4: know how to fix this either, but if you want

670
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 4: me to fall apart with you. When my and when

671
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 4: my fraternity brother's girlfriend died, I didn't even tell him

672
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 4: I was coming to Saint Louis. I showed up at

673
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 4: the door with the bottle of rum and was like, listen,

674
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: I don't know why I'm here, but we got a

675
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 4: week and a.

676
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 3: You hear me? Youar mean so? And it was like

677
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 3: He's like, oh okay.

678
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: And it was us in an apartment drinking rum, just

679
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: falling apart because this is what this is all we

680
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 4: can do right now. But it's all of that, it's

681
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: all of that, but knowing that you don't have to

682
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 4: go and figure out, oh, I'm not going to say

683
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 4: the wrong right thing.

684
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: It's just showing up, just showing up.

685
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: I just think about like when I for me, like

686
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: with my brother, I announced what happened because I knew.

687
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: The first thing that happens is everybody calls you and

688
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: they're like, what happened? And I was like, I don't

689
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: want to say what happened over and over five thousand times.

690
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: You know, here's what happened. So I made sure that

691
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: I said it one time so everybody knew what it was.

692
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: And I think depending on what happens, sometimes there is

693
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: shame for people around how you know, people like they'll

694
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: feel like, oh, he was doing this, and you know

695
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: he overdos see this, see that. Sometimes people are are like,

696
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: look at that, and it's hard for them to talk

697
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: about it in that way too.

698
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 4: It is, and but we have to realize like people live,

699
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 4: people live complex lives, and there is no shame in that.

700
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 4: We've all done it, but some of us have hit it,

701
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: you know, so much better than the others. But I

702
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: think it's worth telling a person's whole life. I remember

703
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 4: when may Angela died and people make, you know, honoring her,

704
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: but you know they're saying, you know, when she was

705
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 4: in sex, when she was doing sex work for this

706
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 4: and this, and when she was a kid she did this,

707
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 4: and people were offended. They were like, why would you

708
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: say that about doctor Mayangela. It's like, she wrote about it.

709
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: She's proud of the life that she came from.

710
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 4: This happened, And so because people are afraid ashamed of it,

711
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: we get these bad biopics because it's like, well, that's

712
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: not the full story.

713
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 3: How did Tina turn her in?

714
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: That with four kids at the end of the movie,

715
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 4: but we only see three in the in the middle,

716
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 4: and so it's like, oh, they didn't want to talk

717
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: about the kids she had first, you know. And so

718
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 4: we get these stories, but we have to tell the

719
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: full story. We deserve that, you know. And I tell

720
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 4: people all the time when I die, come to my funeral.

721
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 4: Whatever stories you have of me, you could say, right

722
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 4: in the mic, as loud as you want, post it,

723
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 4: because people deserve to be full, they deserve to be complete.

724
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 4: We have like I read bad obituaries and there, you know,

725
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 4: paragraph long, you know, and it's like, there was more

726
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 4: to this person's life, even the obituary I wrote in

727
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 4: the book for a friend. Her mom wasn't really there

728
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 4: for her much growing up. She was raised by a grandmother,

729
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: mom had a drug addiction, and so when it came

730
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 4: time to write her obituary, she's like, I want to

731
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 4: tell the truth about all of it. She's like the

732
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 4: hard stuff, the good stuff, she said, because that makes

733
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 4: a full story for my mom. And she deserves to

734
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 4: be a full person now when she couldn't be in life.

735
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 4: And so I really want so a lot of the

736
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 4: work I do as a death dealer, I do come

737
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 4: in and I help people transition and I help families

738
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 4: through the grief. But because I'm a writer professionally, I'm

739
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: a writer. My goal is to help people tell their story.

740
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: And so I come in and I say, I asked

741
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: questions about their childhood. I asked questions about when they

742
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 4: grew up, your most memorable moments, and we or what

743
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: do you want to leave behind for your children or

744
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 4: for the people who are left here? And they are

745
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 4: so open at the end, And so many families have said, I,

746
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 4: you know, have asked their kids or told their kids,

747
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 4: ask me everything you want to know. I will be

748
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 4: very honest with you. And I urge people to do that.

749
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 4: You know, even if they don't tell you to ask

750
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 4: them everything, ask them anyway. If they don't answer, sometimes

751
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 4: they won't, but they might, and then you have more

752
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 4: of your mom or your your dad, or your brother

753
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 4: or your sister than you had before.

754
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: What about your experience with your spiritual journeys and doing

755
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: things like let's get it.

756
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: To that, I want to talk about that. It's something

757
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 2: I haven't really experienced. Oh, absolutely, so kind of delve

758
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: into that for me.

759
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 4: So like ayahuasca mushrooms, it's been in every journey has

760
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 4: been incredible. I'll say with ayahuasca, especially the first time

761
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: I did it, I felt so cared for one by

762
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 4: the community I was with, the shaman I was with,

763
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: but also just this spiritual feeling of this is what

764
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: love feels like. And I go in with my intention of,

765
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 4: you know, I want to know what true love feels like,

766
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: and I want to know why I'm not where I

767
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 4: feel like I should be in this life. And my

768
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 4: mom shows up first, and she's like, give me a hug,

769
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 4: and she's not really there, but I see her and

770
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 4: I hug her, and I just break down in tears, crying,

771
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 4: and it's like, this is what real love is. It's

772
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 4: a mother's hug. And I thought, what about the people

773
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 4: who don't have their mother or not close to their mother,

774
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 4: where do they get it? And then suddenly my cousin

775
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 4: who came home to die in ninety four showed up.

776
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 4: Hadn't thought about him in decades at that point, and

777
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 4: he says, I never got the chance to thank you

778
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 4: for being one of the only two people I felt

779
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 4: loved me in the end. And it was just this

780
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 4: moment of oh my god, you know. And then after that,

781
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 4: many times i've done mushrooms or ayahuasca, it's been about

782
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 4: like there's always a theme of grief. There's always a

783
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 4: theme of you know, living things can still be supported

784
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 4: by dead things. So we're talking about family who've died.

785
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: Your brother, it's like, yes, but you have these stories

786
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 4: that can go on and you will do great things

787
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 4: because of what you've heard about him. And so that's

788
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 4: still that support from people who've passed before. I've seen

789
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 4: countless black men have come back to me and said,

790
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 4: I just want to cry because I've never got the

791
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 4: chance to experience. I'd never got the chance to grieve

792
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 4: myself in the former life. Can I just use you

793
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 4: to cry and that's the last thing I need to

794
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 4: do in this earthly realm.

795
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 3: And I'm like yeah.

796
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 4: And so there was a night where I sat on

797
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 4: the floor and just balled for hours because black men

798
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 4: just never got the chance to cry. And having those

799
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 4: experiences have really come into my work but also my life.

800
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 4: I make sure that my son, me, anyone my friends,

801
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 4: whether they want to talk about it or not, We're

802
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 4: going to have these conversations, even if it's for a

803
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: couple of minutes, even if it's for a second, because

804
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 4: I don't want you to end up like that. And

805
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 4: so the plant medicines have really helped me pull those

806
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 4: things out.

807
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: You've even been able to contact people that if somebody

808
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 2: asked you, like.

809
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 4: Rob for me, Yeah, oh yeah, you're able to absolutely.

810
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 4: My friend she asked me to content and she's a medium.

811
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 4: I very reluctant on using that title.

812
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 3: But she's a medium. And she said, he won't come

813
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 3: to me.

814
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 4: Could you see it that at that point, I had

815
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 4: never asked anyone to come. They've just come. And I said,

816
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 4: all right, I'll do it. And so that night all

817
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 4: the black men came. Is when he came, and he said,

818
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: tell she and I'm okay, I'm in a really good place.

819
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 4: I just want to cry. And I mean I was

820
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 4: stretched out on the floor balling. And I talked to

821
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 4: her the next day and she says, did you see him?

822
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 4: And I said, he came. She said, you know, he's

823
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 4: very dramatic. Was he like all over the floor crying?

824
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 4: I was like, yes, said that's John. I'm like, okay,

825
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 4: I'm glad. I'm glad he had his chance. But yeah,

826
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 4: that's kind And looking back, like I've had those experiences

827
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 4: since I was a kid. I remember being a kid

828
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 4: seeing these spirits and now it's so heavy and I'm

829
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 4: so grateful to be able to share those messages and

830
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 4: to be able to use them. I think it's so

831
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 4: much wisdom in that, and to be able to use them.

832
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 4: Pass that forward to anyone who needs to hear that.

833
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: How long have death doula like when you found out

834
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: about it? How long has this been something that's been like,

835
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it before this.

836
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I heard about it in twenty fifteen. I couldn't

837
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 4: tell you how long people have been using that term

838
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 4: before that. I heard about it from a hospice nurse

839
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 4: who said, oh, you're a death.

840
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: Of I'm like, okay.

841
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: But before that, like.

842
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 4: Until probably twenty twenty, honestly, so those five years, I

843
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 4: had never heard it again. And it wasn't until twenty

844
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: twenty that I heard of like a Lita author who

845
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 4: was doing amazing work as a death of little Black

846
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 4: woman death who created Going with Grace. But that was

847
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: five years between that, and so now it's becoming more

848
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 4: and more in the in the public language, thankfully.

849
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: But still, and you.

850
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: Said twenty twenty, that was the.

851
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: Pandemic, That was the pandemic.

852
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: What was what was work like during that time?

853
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 4: It was heavy because for me I was in New York.

854
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 4: I was living in New York then up in the

855
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 4: Bronx and you know, New York. And during the pandemic,

856
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 4: we were seeing trucks go up the street with bodies.

857
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 4: There were worldwide. We're watching videos of families that were

858
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 4: separated by a glass wall at a nursing home, and

859
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 4: it was like, what can we do. I had no

860
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 4: clients at the time because we were we're all so separated.

861
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 4: But I was with friends. I was with family building community.

862
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 4: We were taking care of each other uptown, you know,

863
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 4: and that's part of that work. It was like, okay,

864
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: well if we die, what what do you want?

865
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: My friend?

866
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 4: We were getting COVID, you know, and I think I

867
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 4: had it twice. I had a friend who had and

868
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 4: it was like, okay, if this is it, how do

869
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 4: you want this to happen? And it's make sure you call.

870
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 4: Here are the numbers you need to call. So we're

871
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 4: all putting numbers in our phone, we're all sharing information,

872
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 4: we're all sharing our locations because that's what needed to happen.

873
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: And it's no different now that's what still needs to happen. Yes,

874
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 4: we still have to do that.

875
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 2: You know, during that time. Doing those virtual funerals was awful.

876
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 2: My grandmother and my uncle. I just was on the

877
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: zoom watching yeah, and.

878
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 4: It's so disconnecting when you need someone like I just

879
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 4: need to hug, you know, I want to hug somebody

880
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 4: that's there. I want to see that body up close.

881
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 4: But it just wasn't possible. And so now we need

882
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 4: Everything we were doing was everything we did then we

883
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 4: need to do now without that threat because we we

884
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: all wait till the threat happens. We all wait till

885
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 4: the until it's too late to do it and we

886
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 4: don't have to.

887
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 2: Well, Darneld, thank you so much for coming through today.

888
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 2: Never can say goodbye the Life of a death dueler

889
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: and the Art of a peaceful and get your box

890
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: of tissues next to you where you're reading this.

891
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: But I was on the train. I was like whoo.

892
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: I know people were like, is she okay? But you know,

893
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: it is like things that people will relate to. But

894
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 2: I also feel like there's very useful information here. It's

895
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: something that we all need to be I guess I

896
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: don't know how if I would say prepared.

897
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 4: For prepared for it, and I think you touch you

898
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 4: touch on that, you know, with talking about your brother again,

899
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 4: you know you it's important that preparation.

900
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: I'm grateful that you you did that to let the

901
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: people know.

902
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely well, Darnell la Mott Walker. How can people

903
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: reach you?

904
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 3: I'm everywhere Darnel Lamart Walker.

905
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 4: Hello Darnell Instagram, Just yeah, type my name. I think

906
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 4: I'm the only Darnell Lamace a lot of Darnell Walkers.

907
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 4: I'm the only one who used the Lamart So find

908
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 4: me anywhere. Contact me.

909
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 3: I am reachable.

910
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 4: I love talking to people about this conversation about death

911
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 4: and very open to these conversations.

912
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: So all right, well, I appreciate you. Thank you so

913
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: much for coming through.

914
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: Thank you