WEBVTT - Episode 71: VISION54 (Feat. Lynn Marriott & Pia Nilsson) 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.320 The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.040 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:06.480 hit any shot I kind of want. 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:08.440 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:10.600 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.040 Hey, hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping proven Grounds podcast. 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.959 Shane Bacon with Marty Jerts and Marty very excited about 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.239 this episode. I've been a Vision fifty four fan for 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.160 a long time, just the idea of it. I've listened 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.400 to podcasts before. I know you have discussed a lot 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.639 of stuff with these two ladies and been very impressed 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:29.639 with what they've been able to do. Lynn Marriott and 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:31.760 Pia Nielsen. And Lynn, I want to start with you 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.280 because for people that have never heard of Vision fifty 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.319 four don't know what it is, can you just kind 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.919 of give what I guess your overarching pitch to what 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:39.519 you guys do. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.320 Yeah, well, fifty four is obviously a number, and we 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.599 believe a player is going to shoot fifty four or 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.560 lower someday. We don't know who and when, but I 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.360 mean it's core to our belief and with that we 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.960 look at possibilities and I'll just say that. Also, we've 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.680 coached two professional players that have shot fifty nine fifty. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.160 Four, But can you share who that is or no? 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.759 Oh sure it's Anika okay and Russell Knox okay. Yep, 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.840 So you know it is a number. But as I said, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.240 it's really about looking at possibilities, and so many people 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.800 have things in their game that aren't yet realized, and 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.640 we need to help them realize those things. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.040 I mean, p is this about like unlocking the mental box? 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:22.200 You know? 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:23.640 I mean, you know, you hear so many things like 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.640 we only use ten percent of our brains, things like that. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.000 I mean you think about you know, great golfers going 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.760 out there and you play well for three rounds and 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.679 you're in an uncomfortable position and you don't play well 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.440 in the final round. We see that in major championships 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:36.920 a lot. Is it unlocking parts of the brain they 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:37.720 didn't know existed. 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.520 Well, it's actually more than that, because the big thing 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.360 for us is, you know, we want to have good 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.080 equipment and want to have a good technique and good fitness. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:48.800 But when you go and play on the golf course, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:53.800 the process of playing requires you to manage both your body, 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.200 mind and emotion, like how do you actually prepare for 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.080 a golf shot and make a decision to trust? How 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.000 do you stay focused in the motion? I know, how 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.760 do you best react? And every round we play has 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:09.080 so much variability, and we as teach, as coaches and 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.280 coaching for the future, we need to help them manage 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.920 that because we are never the same. But many times 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.040 why the swing changes on the course, it's actually not 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.360 the technique's fault. It's something that influenced the technique. You're 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.840 getting too tight because then error is narrow fair way 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.440 or you know someone is sitting it further than new 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.880 so you swing too fast. So we just want to 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.240 expand the width of what golf training, golf coaching he 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:34.680 is about. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:35.000 We don't. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.400 We think it's been too narrow, and so we call 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.120 it more. We need to look at the reality of 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.960 golf and have coaching for all the aspects needed to 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:43.640 play the game. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.880 Pere one thing that I think we've seen even the 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.679 PGA of America. Do you gals might have been part 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.640 of this change? Is this the word change of golf 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:59.480 instruction from instructor to coach. And you've always I feel 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.639 like you've always use the word coach. How much does 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.520 that matter? What is your approach on thinking about, you know, 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.000 coaching versus just being a teacher or instructor. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.480 I mean, actually we love that and we find it 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.280 fun because some now call themself coach, but they still 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.200 do the same as when they call themself teacher and instructor. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.400 So it's kind of like, you know, I can be 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.160 a teacher and teach you the grip, or teach your alignment, 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.919 or teach you how to get more speed, or teach 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.760 your math. But the coach for us is when you 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.920 help a player go from point A to point B. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.920 It's like learning. It could be teaching, but then you 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.160 need to coach them to help them have ownership and 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:41.200 help them actually play the game better. And that's different 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.000 from just teaching a skill. So we might teach some 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.000 but we always continue and be coaches so we can 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:48.400 transfer the knowledge to them. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.400 Yeah, and I'll just say this. I've been a PGA 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:58.040 member for forty years, so you know, my initial instruct 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.880 instruction as a teacher was to teach. And so I 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.040 was a teacher. I taught people golf swings or strokes 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.880 and chips, and you know, I taught technique and people 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.800 got better technique, they got better, but then they went 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.760 on to play golf and they didn't necessarily play better, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.960 and sometimes they played worse. But as a teacher, I 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.359 didn't really think it was my fault or my responsibility. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.159 I had taught them how to have a better technique. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.559 So when I made that transition to coach, as Pas said, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.320 and that was all about what do they do on 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.520 the golf course and how can I help them manage 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.480 themselves on the golf course, and techniques part of that, 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.599 and teaching might be part of that, but it's really 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.600 helping them, as Ps said, take ownership, like be able 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:46.960 to self manage out there and self regulate. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:47.560 You know. 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:48.320 Then it's interesting. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.440 I mean I think about you know, you kind of 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.599 get in a box in terms of instruction, right and 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.159 I mean, you know, we're sitting at the proving grounds 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.520 and you have people getting fit right now behind us, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.919 and you have fitters at times that are you know, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:01.719 paying attention to golf or maybe it's a ten handicap, 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.880 twelve handicap and they're trying to fit them in equipment. 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.840 They might also have instruction for them as well. With 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.520 the golf swing right, and maybe you know, some people 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.920 feel more comfortable saying you know, if you're taking it 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.400 that far outside, it's not going to be great. I 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.560 do think opening up the mind to like just wanting 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.880 to help somebody be better at golf at the end 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.240 of the day is kind of the end goal versus 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.240 you know, no matter if you're a coach or an instructor, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.920 a teacher or whatever, if you're helping somebody get better 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.159 at golf through all of those things, that's the win. 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.960 Yeah. But I think at Vision fifty four we have 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.120 a little bit more of a distinction right now, and 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.040 it really has been our focus for twenty plus years. 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.200 We wanted to play better on the golf. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.400 Course, and that's where it matters, I know. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.720 But that is a clear distinction because so many players 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.560 prepare to play and they work on their games on 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.880 the range, they get fit for clubs, they do all 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.800 of that, but they still lack skills on the golf course. 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:58.359 Interesting. 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.480 Yeah, you know, Marty, we just did a podcast with 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.480 a PJA Tour player and we were talking about how 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.400 you prep and get ready for golf tournaments, and it 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.000 was interesting because he said all of the stuff he 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:09.920 looks at in terms of numbers he looks at when 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.359 he's on the golf course versus when he's hitting on 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:13.839 the range, because he goes, you know, you can dial 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.160 in numbers, especially when you're that level of talent. On 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.200 the range, it's easy to do that, but it's important 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:19.359 when you got on the golf course to see what 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.039 those numbers look like. 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.440 Yeah. Absolutely, And Shane, one of the reasons we love 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.040 working with Pa and Lynn is there's a lot of 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.320 similarities in what we're trying to do with club fitting 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.640 because it'd be very easy to optimize a driver when 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.960 you're just hitting one after another. We're trying to work 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:40.719 on this concept of you know, game like fitting where 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.560 it's like, how can we bring those aspects of on 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.039 course play into the fitting environment. Both of you just 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.440 had a fitting with Kim Paez, had a great. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:49.560 Experience, fantastic. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.520 What over the years have you seen in a fitting 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.960 experience that some things that are maybe better than incorporate 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.960 some of the principles of your coaching versus some maybe 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.000 mistakes that can be made in just the fitting experience. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.479 And I must say, just having done you know, fittings 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.320 here myself a few years it's just getting better and 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.480 better and better. And what I notice now when we've 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.640 done it is more consideration to how I actually play golf. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.640 You don't tit like you know, ten seven irons in 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:24.760 a row. There's more flexibility. And also you know, it's 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.600 not scraping and hitting, because sometimes when you get fit, 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.440 you keep hitting and they want to hit the good one, 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.760 good one. They start forcing it and it gets so 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.240 out of context to how you do it on the 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.840 golf course. So I just felt there are more with 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.520 the fit. There's more consideration to that. It took more 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.880 breaks and you know, change targets more and make it 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.880 more golf like and asking more questions how I play 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.080 golf and what clubs I want to hit, instead of 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:55.360 just being set formula how you do fitting with everybody. 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.880 It's more uniqueness to it because I can think it 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.880 can be very uncomfortable otherwise when you just feel this pressure, 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.520 I better hit five good drive Snyles, so otherwise I'm 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:05.520 not going to get the good fit. 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.840 You know. Yeah. One of the pieces we brought from 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.400 from your school is remember you know you have your 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.120 bag of balls you leave behind in the thing box 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.400 you have to go grab one, be very intentional about 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.960 your shot in our driver fittings. That's one of the 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.160 pieces we do at the end is Okay, we're going 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.440 to take away the pyramid of balls and I'm going 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.520 to throw you one ball kind of like a tour player. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.720 Maybe how you aim it and pretend the fairways between 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.800 those two poles out there and things of that nature. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.600 Yeah, yeah, I mean as close to an actual golf 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.360 course as possible. So I want you to take us 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.720 back because you know, you've kind of explained what you 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.080 guys do and how you do it, and you know 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.680 the conversations you might have with golfers about playing better 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.439 on the golf course. But how did this begin? Like 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.080 where did the idea of this come from? And we 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.040 were talking before he got going. You initially had had 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.120 this in terms of talking to instructors and coaches before 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.480 actually talking to players. So take us back to the 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:58.120 late nineties. 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.480 Yeah, well I think we need to go even further 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.760 back because Vision fifty four started in Sweden. 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:04.520 Yeah, but you can tell your store first. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.520 Well I know, but I'm wanting to Vision fifty four. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.640 Well it came because in Sweden, Yeah, you know, after 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.840 being a tour player. I just happened to get into 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.440 coaching and I ended up being a head coach of 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.240 our national teams in Sweden. But having been more Americanized 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.679 and being on tour and played college golf and all 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.440 of that, I just realized that we need to get 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.280 these players here to have a little different shift because 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.520 they had so many excuses where they couldn't be good. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.839 So we just realized that that the players on the 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.079 national team, they had made birdies on each one of 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.000 the holes of their home course, most of them. So 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.880 we just started asking them like, Okay, you've already done 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.280 it on each hole, so what would it take if 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.480 anyone would ever be able to do it during the 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.240 same round, Like just if it would be possible, how 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.280 do you need to swing? How fit you need to be, 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.240 how do you need to think? It just kept going 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.160 and we realized it was just getting them out of 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.160 having a better vision of the future. So that's where 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.120 it started, and it's the best thing we ever did, 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.280 because then we had to look at us as coaches, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.280 if we're going to support players towards this, who do 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.800 we need to be, what do we need to know? 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.880 And obviously Anika Serstam is one of the ones that 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.080 heard it the first time, and she always had a 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.440 fifty four head cover in her bag, so she's not 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.280 expecting to do that, but going for the possibility. So 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.480 but for me, it came with I've been a tour 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.160 player and played college golf here and was among the 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.560 first Europeans to come over and do that. And then 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.920 when I started coaching, my first thought was what are 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.599 the things I wish I would have had? And I 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.880 had had fantastic teachers and coaches, but I knew not 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.079 I didn't get enough actually observing and feedback what happens 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.120 on the course because I could hit it well, but 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.240 then I don't know why it didn't work on the course. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.200 So I just started to figure out what are the 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.920 things they're still lacking. So that's where my discovery started. 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.920 And I realized this is like golden nuggets here because 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.040 we need all the what we have, but we need 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.440 more of this what actually happens when I play golf, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.920 and every golfer has a unique way of doing it, 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.600 we need to help them capture it sooner so it 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.600 doesn't have to take twenty years. So and we started 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.880 having a lot of success doing it. Like this, and 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.160 I went to the US a lot for trainings and 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.560 seminars and conferences, and I would always run into one 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.360 other female teacher who was my age and was Linn. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.520 So we just became really good colleagues and realized that 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.320 we both from different backgrounds, had thoughts about this could 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:32.720 be done different in the future. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.120 So that was the initial idea. 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:36.680 Yeahsage Genes, and then you. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.400 Guys team up together in the late nineties to kind 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.719 of like start a company that wasn't originally collevision but before. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.679 No, we had this vision that if this is going 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:50.000 to happen for more people, we need to train coaches differently. So, 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.360 I mean, that was our whole passion. So we started 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.840 a company and it's still our incorporated name, Coaching for 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.560 the Future. And so in ninety eight we did our 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.800 first coaching seminar in Stockholm, Sweden, and I don't know, 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.640 we had like forty coaches come, some college coaches from 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.160 the US, I mean from all over and you know, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.440 I had been actually head of teacher training for the 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.000 LPGA for ten plus years, so I said, let you know, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:20.200 let's do this thing and really help coaches, because you know, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.320 teachers are only going to teach what they're told to teach. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.920 So I unfortunately at that time, I felt like the 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:32.560 PGA and also in the LPGA was doing a better 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.960 job than the PGA, but they were still they you know, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:40.320 they were at low level basic skills as coaches, and 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.480 people were not getting better at golf. So how can 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:44.960 we help that? 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.239 I mean, if you're coaching somebody and they're not improving, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.720 coaching in general, right exactly. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:50.360 I wanted to. 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.480 Get them to a place where they're obviously playing better, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:53.840 scoring better, shooting better numbers. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.760 I mean that's the way, and enjoying the game more, right, Yeah, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.400 I mean that was a big deal for us. 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.160 So, I mean they enjoying the game, because we shocked 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.160 how many come off the eighteenth old being miserable and 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.680 it doesn't make sense. So obviously we've been doing tool 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.360 coaching for very many years and they're many very great players, 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.200 but they're very unhappy and it doesn't make sense. So 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.880 we just want to want them to be good but 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:22.160 actually enjoy and feel that there it means something to 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.000 them to do this competitive. 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:25.199 Golf thing, is it? 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.280 Are you guys mostly working with tour players, mostly working 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.680 with everyday golfers, Like, what's the percentage mix of the 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:32.920 students you guys work with. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.280 I mean, we still do a lot of golf schools, 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.480 and we do some very unique golf schools, like one 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.440 is called to day on course only and that's all 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.640 they do is they're on the golf course with our coaches. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.880 But I'd say like maybe thirty percent tour coaching now, yeah, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.439 and then golf schools and writing books. So we've been 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.080 pretty PA has been really the initiator of this, but 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.920 it's been writing some books to help people make these 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.760 skills tangible that we do. And we have a big project. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.240 We're writing a coaching book. Cool yeah, cool yeah, coaches. 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:09.680 Both of you. 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.880 I think a big part of our concept is to 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.320 coach the human. But at the same time, I feel like, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.400 at least from what I've observed, you haven't been afraid 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.320 to dabble with some technology, things like eye tracking, maybe 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.200 some brainwave stuff HRV. We did HRV stack, Yes, the 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.280 Stack speed training. I kind of call it biohacking, but 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.560 it's not really taking the shortcut. It's just you know, 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.560 what tools have you been a part of used either 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.400 through research or do you currently use in your coaching 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.880 and what do you think is coming on the technology front. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.480 Well, you know, so we've always been curious, and you know, 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.560 we always believe in the technique and technology. We just 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.640 think it's insufficient. So you know, even with TPI and 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.760 body swing connection, we were some of the first to 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.800 get certified with that, and early on wanted to learn 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.040 from track men and on and always stay up to date. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.440 But then what happens to with our coaching. Most of 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.160 the golfers come to us because they need these things 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.800 that are still missing. So it's like we want to 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.320 be updated and use some of the technology, but then 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.560 when they come to us, they want to learn the 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.040 other skills you need to play the game of golf. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:23.200 So therefore we do most of what we do without 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.880 the technology. But it doesn't mean we don't believe in it. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:30.200 It's just because that's what golfers are lacking. Yeah, does 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:30.720 that make sense? 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:32.320 Definitely, And you. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.600 Know, obviously we think for the future we can keep 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.320 on staying so in tune with it to see what 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.160 AI can do and all of that and the measurements, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.920 but we can never go away from It's still a 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.600 human being who's going to play golf, and the human 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:53.440 being has this subjective reality to you know, you need that. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 We need to listen to to trust the decision and 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.640 stay focused and feel the swing moves and deal with 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.880 all the variability. So we just don't want just to 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.320 forget that just because we have so much advancement in technology. 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.880 Yeah, a couple of things I want to say regards 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:15.440 to technology. One is I hope the framework or the 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.520 mindset is that we are using it so people become 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.840 less dependent on it, so that they have more ownership. 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.560 And I don't see that happening yet, but I hope 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:28.760 that that's the future. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.280 I just did a teaching and coaching summit and Chris 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.200 Como talked and they asked him what all the technology, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:36.880 if you could pick one thing, what would it be. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.760 And he's been on vocal and force plates and you know, 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.840 everything imaginable and he said, well, the video. I mean, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.040 and I think it's because he's he's kind of trained 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.080 himself so much with these other tools that he can 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.320 kind of decouple from it. So it's kind of similar 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:53.840 in that regard. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.480 Yeah, but I think you know, you said this the 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.800 other day that like you have this avatar and you 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.960 have all these numbers and measurements of the club and 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.040 the body and all that, But what about that inner reality, 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.520 like you said, that subjective reality. The more we can 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:15.320 use technology to help people self regulate that and notice 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.200 like increase your self awareness so they can self reference 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:25.040 and self regulate, then yay. Now we're talking about people 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.120 that can go out and manage themselves on the golf 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.679 course when it matters. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.560 All right, Pee, I got a very I'm going to 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.080 call it a simple question, it's probably got a complicated answer. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:40.760 So every golfer goes through this professional amateur, good amateur player, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.199 club champion, whatever the case may be. You get to 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.240 a place on the golf course that you've always wanted 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.359 to get to, whether it's breaking a personal number, maybe 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.840 you've never been this many under par before. And then 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.080 you start to think about it and you bogeat to 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.720 with the last three holes, or you bogee or double 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.240 the last hole, you get a shot out of bounds. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.440 Why do we do that? 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:01.919 No? 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.080 It's yeah, so you know they have as humans, you 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:12.560 can be in the t three timeframes, future, present, the past. Right, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.360 So what happens to you me all these conferences when 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.719 we get to that moment the mind is exactly so 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.679 it's like you need to find the balance when you 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.040 play your best. You know, we always need a little future. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.879 We need to know where the next shot is going. 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:27.920 But usually what. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.400 Happens is it goes too much to the future. So 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.359 often players need when they get to that moment in time, 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.480 they need to walk between shots and feel their feet 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.560 or focus on their breathing and be extra focused on 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.719 getting really present before the shot and if they want to, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.879 you know, feel the grit pressure, do much more to 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:52.040 double up because the human tendency is to expect the future, right, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.080 and it's so so anything you can do and knowing 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.239 it's totally normal, but you need you can't do what 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.920 you did the leading up to that point. You need 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.960 to change. And this is where this variability comes in. 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.800 And it's so fun to help golfers with this because 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.440 it's a moment that we all all get you, all right, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.840 you know. And I still think from the when Anika 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.400 Surta Stamp shot fifty nine at Moon Valley here in Phoenix, 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.200