Speaker 1: The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how
Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can
Speaker 1: hit any shot I kind of want.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
Speaker 2: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping proven Grounds podcast.
Speaker 3: Shane Bacon with Marty Jerts and Marty very excited about
Speaker 3: this episode. I've been a Vision fifty four fan for
Speaker 3: a long time, just the idea of it. I've listened
Speaker 3: to podcasts before. I know you have discussed a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff with these two ladies and been very impressed
Speaker 3: with what they've been able to do. Lynn Marriott and
Speaker 3: Pia Nielsen. And Lynn, I want to start with you
Speaker 3: because for people that have never heard of Vision fifty
Speaker 3: four don't know what it is, can you just kind
Speaker 3: of give what I guess your overarching pitch to what
Speaker 3: you guys do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, fifty four is obviously a number, and we
Speaker 4: believe a player is going to shoot fifty four or
Speaker 4: lower someday. We don't know who and when, but I
Speaker 4: mean it's core to our belief and with that we
Speaker 4: look at possibilities and I'll just say that. Also, we've
Speaker 4: coached two professional players that have shot fifty nine fifty.
Speaker 1: Four, But can you share who that is or no?
Speaker 4: Oh sure it's Anika okay and Russell Knox okay. Yep,
Speaker 4: So you know it is a number. But as I said,
Speaker 4: it's really about looking at possibilities, and so many people
Speaker 4: have things in their game that aren't yet realized, and
Speaker 4: we need to help them realize those things.
Speaker 3: I mean, p is this about like unlocking the mental box?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you hear so many things like
Speaker 3: we only use ten percent of our brains, things like that.
Speaker 3: I mean you think about you know, great golfers going
Speaker 3: out there and you play well for three rounds and
Speaker 3: you're in an uncomfortable position and you don't play well
Speaker 3: in the final round. We see that in major championships
Speaker 3: a lot. Is it unlocking parts of the brain they
Speaker 3: didn't know existed.
Speaker 5: Well, it's actually more than that, because the big thing
Speaker 5: for us is, you know, we want to have good
Speaker 5: equipment and want to have a good technique and good fitness.
Speaker 5: But when you go and play on the golf course,
Speaker 5: the process of playing requires you to manage both your body,
Speaker 5: mind and emotion, like how do you actually prepare for
Speaker 5: a golf shot and make a decision to trust? How
Speaker 5: do you stay focused in the motion? I know, how
Speaker 5: do you best react? And every round we play has
Speaker 5: so much variability, and we as teach, as coaches and
Speaker 5: coaching for the future, we need to help them manage
Speaker 5: that because we are never the same. But many times
Speaker 5: why the swing changes on the course, it's actually not
Speaker 5: the technique's fault. It's something that influenced the technique. You're
Speaker 5: getting too tight because then error is narrow fair way
Speaker 5: or you know someone is sitting it further than new
Speaker 5: so you swing too fast. So we just want to
Speaker 5: expand the width of what golf training, golf coaching he
Speaker 5: is about.
Speaker 1: We don't.
Speaker 5: We think it's been too narrow, and so we call
Speaker 5: it more. We need to look at the reality of
Speaker 5: golf and have coaching for all the aspects needed to
Speaker 5: play the game.
Speaker 2: Pere one thing that I think we've seen even the
Speaker 2: PGA of America. Do you gals might have been part
Speaker 2: of this change? Is this the word change of golf
Speaker 2: instruction from instructor to coach. And you've always I feel
Speaker 2: like you've always use the word coach. How much does
Speaker 2: that matter? What is your approach on thinking about, you know,
Speaker 2: coaching versus just being a teacher or instructor.
Speaker 5: I mean, actually we love that and we find it
Speaker 5: fun because some now call themself coach, but they still
Speaker 5: do the same as when they call themself teacher and instructor.
Speaker 5: So it's kind of like, you know, I can be
Speaker 5: a teacher and teach you the grip, or teach your alignment,
Speaker 5: or teach you how to get more speed, or teach
Speaker 5: your math. But the coach for us is when you
Speaker 5: help a player go from point A to point B.
Speaker 5: It's like learning. It could be teaching, but then you
Speaker 5: need to coach them to help them have ownership and
Speaker 5: help them actually play the game better. And that's different
Speaker 5: from just teaching a skill. So we might teach some
Speaker 5: but we always continue and be coaches so we can
Speaker 5: transfer the knowledge to them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'll just say this. I've been a PGA
Speaker 4: member for forty years, so you know, my initial instruct
Speaker 4: instruction as a teacher was to teach. And so I
Speaker 4: was a teacher. I taught people golf swings or strokes
Speaker 4: and chips, and you know, I taught technique and people
Speaker 4: got better technique, they got better, but then they went
Speaker 4: on to play golf and they didn't necessarily play better,
Speaker 4: and sometimes they played worse. But as a teacher, I
Speaker 4: didn't really think it was my fault or my responsibility.
Speaker 4: I had taught them how to have a better technique.
Speaker 4: So when I made that transition to coach, as Pas said,
Speaker 4: and that was all about what do they do on
Speaker 4: the golf course and how can I help them manage
Speaker 4: themselves on the golf course, and techniques part of that,
Speaker 4: and teaching might be part of that, but it's really
Speaker 4: helping them, as Ps said, take ownership, like be able
Speaker 4: to self manage out there and self regulate.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Then it's interesting.
Speaker 3: I mean I think about you know, you kind of
Speaker 3: get in a box in terms of instruction, right and
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we're sitting at the proving grounds
Speaker 3: and you have people getting fit right now behind us,
Speaker 3: and you have fitters at times that are you know,
Speaker 3: paying attention to golf or maybe it's a ten handicap,
Speaker 3: twelve handicap and they're trying to fit them in equipment.
Speaker 3: They might also have instruction for them as well. With
Speaker 3: the golf swing right, and maybe you know, some people
Speaker 3: feel more comfortable saying you know, if you're taking it
Speaker 3: that far outside, it's not going to be great. I
Speaker 3: do think opening up the mind to like just wanting
Speaker 3: to help somebody be better at golf at the end
Speaker 3: of the day is kind of the end goal versus
Speaker 3: you know, no matter if you're a coach or an instructor,
Speaker 3: a teacher or whatever, if you're helping somebody get better
Speaker 3: at golf through all of those things, that's the win.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But I think at Vision fifty four we have
Speaker 4: a little bit more of a distinction right now, and
Speaker 4: it really has been our focus for twenty plus years.
Speaker 4: We wanted to play better on the golf.
Speaker 1: Course, and that's where it matters, I know.
Speaker 4: But that is a clear distinction because so many players
Speaker 4: prepare to play and they work on their games on
Speaker 4: the range, they get fit for clubs, they do all
Speaker 4: of that, but they still lack skills on the golf course.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Marty, we just did a podcast with
Speaker 3: a PJA Tour player and we were talking about how
Speaker 3: you prep and get ready for golf tournaments, and it
Speaker 3: was interesting because he said all of the stuff he
Speaker 3: looks at in terms of numbers he looks at when
Speaker 3: he's on the golf course versus when he's hitting on
Speaker 3: the range, because he goes, you know, you can dial
Speaker 3: in numbers, especially when you're that level of talent. On
Speaker 3: the range, it's easy to do that, but it's important
Speaker 3: when you got on the golf course to see what
Speaker 3: those numbers look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And Shane, one of the reasons we love
Speaker 2: working with Pa and Lynn is there's a lot of
Speaker 2: similarities in what we're trying to do with club fitting
Speaker 2: because it'd be very easy to optimize a driver when
Speaker 2: you're just hitting one after another. We're trying to work
Speaker 2: on this concept of you know, game like fitting where
Speaker 2: it's like, how can we bring those aspects of on
Speaker 2: course play into the fitting environment. Both of you just
Speaker 2: had a fitting with Kim Paez, had a great.
Speaker 1: Experience, fantastic.
Speaker 2: What over the years have you seen in a fitting
Speaker 2: experience that some things that are maybe better than incorporate
Speaker 2: some of the principles of your coaching versus some maybe
Speaker 2: mistakes that can be made in just the fitting experience.
Speaker 5: And I must say, just having done you know, fittings
Speaker 5: here myself a few years it's just getting better and
Speaker 5: better and better. And what I notice now when we've
Speaker 5: done it is more consideration to how I actually play golf.
Speaker 5: You don't tit like you know, ten seven irons in
Speaker 5: a row. There's more flexibility. And also you know, it's
Speaker 5: not scraping and hitting, because sometimes when you get fit,
Speaker 5: you keep hitting and they want to hit the good one,
Speaker 5: good one. They start forcing it and it gets so
Speaker 5: out of context to how you do it on the
Speaker 5: golf course. So I just felt there are more with
Speaker 5: the fit. There's more consideration to that. It took more
Speaker 5: breaks and you know, change targets more and make it
Speaker 5: more golf like and asking more questions how I play
Speaker 5: golf and what clubs I want to hit, instead of
Speaker 5: just being set formula how you do fitting with everybody.
Speaker 5: It's more uniqueness to it because I can think it
Speaker 5: can be very uncomfortable otherwise when you just feel this pressure,
Speaker 5: I better hit five good drive Snyles, so otherwise I'm
Speaker 5: not going to get the good fit.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah. One of the pieces we brought from
Speaker 2: from your school is remember you know you have your
Speaker 2: bag of balls you leave behind in the thing box
Speaker 2: you have to go grab one, be very intentional about
Speaker 2: your shot in our driver fittings. That's one of the
Speaker 2: pieces we do at the end is Okay, we're going
Speaker 2: to take away the pyramid of balls and I'm going
Speaker 2: to throw you one ball kind of like a tour player.
Speaker 2: Maybe how you aim it and pretend the fairways between
Speaker 2: those two poles out there and things of that nature.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean as close to an actual golf
Speaker 3: course as possible. So I want you to take us
Speaker 3: back because you know, you've kind of explained what you
Speaker 3: guys do and how you do it, and you know
Speaker 3: the conversations you might have with golfers about playing better
Speaker 3: on the golf course. But how did this begin? Like
Speaker 3: where did the idea of this come from? And we
Speaker 3: were talking before he got going. You initially had had
Speaker 3: this in terms of talking to instructors and coaches before
Speaker 3: actually talking to players. So take us back to the
Speaker 3: late nineties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I think we need to go even further
Speaker 4: back because Vision fifty four started in Sweden.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you can tell your store first.
Speaker 4: Well I know, but I'm wanting to Vision fifty four.
Speaker 5: Well it came because in Sweden, Yeah, you know, after
Speaker 5: being a tour player. I just happened to get into
Speaker 5: coaching and I ended up being a head coach of
Speaker 5: our national teams in Sweden. But having been more Americanized
Speaker 5: and being on tour and played college golf and all
Speaker 5: of that, I just realized that we need to get
Speaker 5: these players here to have a little different shift because
Speaker 5: they had so many excuses where they couldn't be good.
Speaker 5: So we just realized that that the players on the
Speaker 5: national team, they had made birdies on each one of
Speaker 5: the holes of their home course, most of them. So
Speaker 5: we just started asking them like, Okay, you've already done
Speaker 5: it on each hole, so what would it take if
Speaker 5: anyone would ever be able to do it during the
Speaker 5: same round, Like just if it would be possible, how
Speaker 5: do you need to swing? How fit you need to be,
Speaker 5: how do you need to think? It just kept going
Speaker 5: and we realized it was just getting them out of
Speaker 5: having a better vision of the future. So that's where
Speaker 5: it started, and it's the best thing we ever did,
Speaker 5: because then we had to look at us as coaches,
Speaker 5: if we're going to support players towards this, who do
Speaker 5: we need to be, what do we need to know?
Speaker 5: And obviously Anika Serstam is one of the ones that
Speaker 5: heard it the first time, and she always had a
Speaker 5: fifty four head cover in her bag, so she's not
Speaker 5: expecting to do that, but going for the possibility. So
Speaker 5: but for me, it came with I've been a tour
Speaker 5: player and played college golf here and was among the
Speaker 5: first Europeans to come over and do that. And then
Speaker 5: when I started coaching, my first thought was what are
Speaker 5: the things I wish I would have had? And I
Speaker 5: had had fantastic teachers and coaches, but I knew not
Speaker 5: I didn't get enough actually observing and feedback what happens
Speaker 5: on the course because I could hit it well, but
Speaker 5: then I don't know why it didn't work on the course.
Speaker 5: So I just started to figure out what are the
Speaker 5: things they're still lacking. So that's where my discovery started.
Speaker 5: And I realized this is like golden nuggets here because
Speaker 5: we need all the what we have, but we need
Speaker 5: more of this what actually happens when I play golf,
Speaker 5: and every golfer has a unique way of doing it,
Speaker 5: we need to help them capture it sooner so it
Speaker 5: doesn't have to take twenty years. So and we started
Speaker 5: having a lot of success doing it. Like this, and
Speaker 5: I went to the US a lot for trainings and
Speaker 5: seminars and conferences, and I would always run into one
Speaker 5: other female teacher who was my age and was Linn.
Speaker 5: So we just became really good colleagues and realized that
Speaker 5: we both from different backgrounds, had thoughts about this could
Speaker 5: be done different in the future.
Speaker 1: So that was the initial idea.
Speaker 4: Yeahsage Genes, and then you.
Speaker 3: Guys team up together in the late nineties to kind
Speaker 3: of like start a company that wasn't originally collevision but before.
Speaker 4: No, we had this vision that if this is going
Speaker 4: to happen for more people, we need to train coaches differently. So,
Speaker 4: I mean, that was our whole passion. So we started
Speaker 4: a company and it's still our incorporated name, Coaching for
Speaker 4: the Future. And so in ninety eight we did our
Speaker 4: first coaching seminar in Stockholm, Sweden, and I don't know,
Speaker 4: we had like forty coaches come, some college coaches from
Speaker 4: the US, I mean from all over and you know,
Speaker 4: I had been actually head of teacher training for the
Speaker 4: LPGA for ten plus years, so I said, let you know,
Speaker 4: let's do this thing and really help coaches, because you know,
Speaker 4: teachers are only going to teach what they're told to teach.
Speaker 4: So I unfortunately at that time, I felt like the
Speaker 4: PGA and also in the LPGA was doing a better
Speaker 4: job than the PGA, but they were still they you know,
Speaker 4: they were at low level basic skills as coaches, and
Speaker 4: people were not getting better at golf. So how can
Speaker 4: we help that?
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're coaching somebody and they're not improving,
Speaker 3: coaching in general, right exactly.
Speaker 1: I wanted to.
Speaker 3: Get them to a place where they're obviously playing better,
Speaker 3: scoring better, shooting better numbers.
Speaker 4: I mean that's the way, and enjoying the game more, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean that was a big deal for us.
Speaker 5: So, I mean they enjoying the game, because we shocked
Speaker 5: how many come off the eighteenth old being miserable and
Speaker 5: it doesn't make sense. So obviously we've been doing tool
Speaker 5: coaching for very many years and they're many very great players,
Speaker 5: but they're very unhappy and it doesn't make sense. So
Speaker 5: we just want to want them to be good but
Speaker 5: actually enjoy and feel that there it means something to
Speaker 5: them to do this competitive.
Speaker 1: Golf thing, is it?
Speaker 3: Are you guys mostly working with tour players, mostly working
Speaker 3: with everyday golfers, Like, what's the percentage mix of the
Speaker 3: students you guys work with.
Speaker 4: I mean, we still do a lot of golf schools,
Speaker 4: and we do some very unique golf schools, like one
Speaker 4: is called to day on course only and that's all
Speaker 4: they do is they're on the golf course with our coaches.
Speaker 4: But I'd say like maybe thirty percent tour coaching now, yeah,
Speaker 4: and then golf schools and writing books. So we've been
Speaker 4: pretty PA has been really the initiator of this, but
Speaker 4: it's been writing some books to help people make these
Speaker 4: skills tangible that we do. And we have a big project.
Speaker 4: We're writing a coaching book. Cool yeah, cool yeah, coaches.
Speaker 1: Both of you.
Speaker 2: I think a big part of our concept is to
Speaker 2: coach the human. But at the same time, I feel like,
Speaker 2: at least from what I've observed, you haven't been afraid
Speaker 2: to dabble with some technology, things like eye tracking, maybe
Speaker 2: some brainwave stuff HRV. We did HRV stack, Yes, the
Speaker 2: Stack speed training. I kind of call it biohacking, but
Speaker 2: it's not really taking the shortcut. It's just you know,
Speaker 2: what tools have you been a part of used either
Speaker 2: through research or do you currently use in your coaching
Speaker 2: and what do you think is coming on the technology front.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, so we've always been curious, and you know,
Speaker 5: we always believe in the technique and technology. We just
Speaker 5: think it's insufficient. So you know, even with TPI and
Speaker 5: body swing connection, we were some of the first to
Speaker 5: get certified with that, and early on wanted to learn
Speaker 5: from track men and on and always stay up to date.
Speaker 5: But then what happens to with our coaching. Most of
Speaker 5: the golfers come to us because they need these things
Speaker 5: that are still missing. So it's like we want to
Speaker 5: be updated and use some of the technology, but then
Speaker 5: when they come to us, they want to learn the
Speaker 5: other skills you need to play the game of golf.
Speaker 5: So therefore we do most of what we do without
Speaker 5: the technology. But it doesn't mean we don't believe in it.
Speaker 5: It's just because that's what golfers are lacking. Yeah, does
Speaker 5: that make sense?
Speaker 2: Definitely, And you.
Speaker 5: Know, obviously we think for the future we can keep
Speaker 5: on staying so in tune with it to see what
Speaker 5: AI can do and all of that and the measurements,
Speaker 5: but we can never go away from It's still a
Speaker 5: human being who's going to play golf, and the human
Speaker 5: being has this subjective reality to you know, you need that.
Speaker 5: We need to listen to to trust the decision and
Speaker 5: stay focused and feel the swing moves and deal with
Speaker 5: all the variability. So we just don't want just to
Speaker 5: forget that just because we have so much advancement in technology.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a couple of things I want to say regards
Speaker 4: to technology. One is I hope the framework or the
Speaker 4: mindset is that we are using it so people become
Speaker 4: less dependent on it, so that they have more ownership.
Speaker 4: And I don't see that happening yet, but I hope
Speaker 4: that that's the future.
Speaker 2: I just did a teaching and coaching summit and Chris
Speaker 2: Como talked and they asked him what all the technology,
Speaker 2: if you could pick one thing, what would it be.
Speaker 2: And he's been on vocal and force plates and you know,
Speaker 2: everything imaginable and he said, well, the video. I mean,
Speaker 2: and I think it's because he's he's kind of trained
Speaker 2: himself so much with these other tools that he can
Speaker 2: kind of decouple from it. So it's kind of similar
Speaker 2: in that regard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think you know, you said this the
Speaker 4: other day that like you have this avatar and you
Speaker 4: have all these numbers and measurements of the club and
Speaker 4: the body and all that, But what about that inner reality,
Speaker 4: like you said, that subjective reality. The more we can
Speaker 4: use technology to help people self regulate that and notice
Speaker 4: like increase your self awareness so they can self reference
Speaker 4: and self regulate, then yay. Now we're talking about people
Speaker 4: that can go out and manage themselves on the golf
Speaker 4: course when it matters.
Speaker 3: All right, Pee, I got a very I'm going to
Speaker 3: call it a simple question, it's probably got a complicated answer.
Speaker 3: So every golfer goes through this professional amateur, good amateur player,
Speaker 3: club champion, whatever the case may be. You get to
Speaker 3: a place on the golf course that you've always wanted
Speaker 3: to get to, whether it's breaking a personal number, maybe
Speaker 3: you've never been this many under par before. And then
Speaker 3: you start to think about it and you bogeat to
Speaker 3: with the last three holes, or you bogee or double
Speaker 3: the last hole, you get a shot out of bounds.
Speaker 3: Why do we do that?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: It's yeah, so you know they have as humans, you
Speaker 5: can be in the t three timeframes, future, present, the past. Right,
Speaker 5: So what happens to you me all these conferences when
Speaker 5: we get to that moment the mind is exactly so
Speaker 5: it's like you need to find the balance when you
Speaker 5: play your best. You know, we always need a little future.
Speaker 5: We need to know where the next shot is going.
Speaker 1: But usually what.
Speaker 5: Happens is it goes too much to the future. So
Speaker 5: often players need when they get to that moment in time,
Speaker 5: they need to walk between shots and feel their feet
Speaker 5: or focus on their breathing and be extra focused on
Speaker 5: getting really present before the shot and if they want to,
Speaker 5: you know, feel the grit pressure, do much more to
Speaker 5: double up because the human tendency is to expect the future, right,
Speaker 5: and it's so so anything you can do and knowing
Speaker 5: it's totally normal, but you need you can't do what
Speaker 5: you did the leading up to that point. You need
Speaker 5: to change. And this is where this variability comes in.
Speaker 5: And it's so fun to help golfers with this because
Speaker 5: it's a moment that we all all get you, all right,
Speaker 5: you know. And I still think from the when Anika
Speaker 5: Surta Stamp shot fifty nine at Moon Valley here in Phoenix,
Speaker 5: and the first thing she said walking off the green
Speaker 5: was Pierre now knows even more possible to go lower? Wow,
Speaker 5: because she started with eight birds in a row, and
Speaker 5: she got scared. It's felt too good to be true,
Speaker 5: so she did exactly this.
Speaker 1: She got moved into the future.
Speaker 5: So she then she made a couple of safe parts
Speaker 5: till she caught herself like, I'm having a good day.
Speaker 5: I need to go back to only caring about the
Speaker 5: commitment for each shot and only caring about that. And
Speaker 5: even though the thought about the score is there, I
Speaker 5: don't give it an energy.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so interesting.
Speaker 3: We did a podcast with Matt McCarty and we were
Speaker 3: talking before the podcast got going about you know, low numbers,
Speaker 3: that what's the which you've shot, and he goes, I
Speaker 3: think he said, his fourth professional tournament, he shot fifty
Speaker 3: nine I think in the first or second round. It
Speaker 3: was a mini tour event. He said it was a
Speaker 3: relatively easy golf course. And then he said the next day, again, golfers,
Speaker 3: our minds are always racing, We're always thinking about stuff.
Speaker 3: And he said, the next day, he's even par through eight,
Speaker 3: and he's like so mad, you know, because again I think.
Speaker 1: He'd seen what's possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then all of a sudden, you start out
Speaker 3: and you're even through eight and you're going, wait, why
Speaker 3: am I not doing what I did yesterday? So for him,
Speaker 3: he went to the past, you know, not the present, right,
Speaker 3: instead of going to you know, person's playing, well they
Speaker 3: going in the future. He went to the past as
Speaker 3: opposed to be in the future in the present.
Speaker 5: So this is part of this management that belongs to
Speaker 5: the fundamental skills of golf.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's it is, It is always wild.
Speaker 3: I do want to ask you guys, because I've seen
Speaker 3: you guys talk about this in different platforms before. The
Speaker 3: think box, the playbox, the memory box, do you mind
Speaker 3: just kind of expanding on on how you guys got
Speaker 3: there and what that means for the golfer.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, the distinction is is that there's a preparation time.
Speaker 4: So now you're in the future. Sure, you're preparing the shot,
Speaker 4: so your brain's actually like, oh, I want to eat
Speaker 4: it there with this club and this shape and blah
Speaker 4: blah blah. So that's the think box is the preparation.
Speaker 4: The play box is totally the present. It's like totally
Speaker 4: immersed right now in this swing and stroke with what
Speaker 4: I've committed to. And then the memory box is how
Speaker 4: to deal with your outcomes on an emotional level. And
Speaker 4: I was going to say earlier, when you're talking about
Speaker 4: how people race to the future, some people actually go
Speaker 4: to the past, and that's because they haven't learned the
Speaker 4: skill of a good memory box. But we can talk
Speaker 4: about that more.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 5: So you know, so we just like the distinction of
Speaker 5: the names because most golfers just moush them all together.
Speaker 5: They step into the shot and they're still undecided on
Speaker 5: the club or the wind or whatever, and they're still
Speaker 5: fiddling with maybe what is my thwing's thoughts. So it's
Speaker 5: just like very cluttery. So we just want to clean
Speaker 5: it up for golfers so they can perform better. And
Speaker 5: that's that's what's any golf no matter what handicap level
Speaker 5: or how long they played golf, they need some kind
Speaker 5: of a process, a future, present and past of every
Speaker 5: golf shop.
Speaker 1: Marty.
Speaker 3: I think when I a couple of years ago, I
Speaker 3: played some pretty good tournament golf and I was putting well,
Speaker 3: and I remember I got to a place in my
Speaker 3: mind where I you know, my mind can raise like
Speaker 3: I can think about a million different things. I mean
Speaker 3: when I'm playing golf and I remember I got to
Speaker 3: a place that summer where I realized that there were
Speaker 3: two outcomes when I hit a putt. I was gonna
Speaker 3: make it or I was gonna miss it. And as
Speaker 3: long as I was okay accepting those two things, I
Speaker 3: was gonna be okay. And so, you know, a downhill
Speaker 3: like I'm left handed, a downhill right to left putt
Speaker 3: on a quick green, you know, and you know it's
Speaker 3: a little nervy kind of putt, and it's like, just
Speaker 3: try to hit a good putt and then after if
Speaker 3: you make a good stroke or a good committed stroke,
Speaker 3: there's two outcomes, and that's kind of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's an awesome memory box round.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't bring that back in twenty twenty five, Marty.
Speaker 2: What is the talk a little bit about focusing a
Speaker 2: little more on that memory box, like what is the
Speaker 2: what is the importance of that and maybe even to
Speaker 2: get it technical on how the brain works.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, because actually it's based on on brain science.
Speaker 5: So we know as humans, no matter where I come
Speaker 5: from on the planet, thinks that the experience that is emotional,
Speaker 5: it gets stored stronger as a memory if I react
Speaker 5: to something more factual, objective, two days later, it's hard
Speaker 5: for me to recall it. I mean, if you've seen
Speaker 5: a movie that doesn't engage you and you're not into it,
Speaker 5: like two days later, it's like, I don't quite remember.
Speaker 5: So it's just human nature. But what we have found
Speaker 5: many golfers that they can have a habitually hit great shots,
Speaker 5: good shots, good enough shots, and they just say that
Speaker 5: was good and they put the club away. So there's
Speaker 5: just objective and then the shots they're not good, they
Speaker 5: go like, oh god, right, and they don't know that.
Speaker 5: So what happens is the ones that emotionalize gets stored
Speaker 5: as a memory and then they pop up when I
Speaker 5: get to similar situations.
Speaker 4: So if you're designed to do that, yeah, So.
Speaker 5: If I've done that every time on the fourth hole
Speaker 5: of my home course, whether I have hooked it in
Speaker 5: the trees, I've done it. You know a few times
Speaker 5: I can come to that tea and I can already
Speaker 5: feel the misshot. But there's no mystery. It's just how
Speaker 5: our beautiful brain of designed for survival. So we just
Speaker 5: wanted golfers to be smart about this so you can
Speaker 5: keep gaining confidence and have more shots you trust on
Speaker 5: the golf course.
Speaker 3: I want to ask you know you think of the
Speaker 3: term vision fifty four and kind of the ideology of
Speaker 3: it in fifty four, you know, shooting this perfect score.
Speaker 3: But something I found really interesting is you guys just
Speaker 3: worked with an F wind driver. Obviously that is not
Speaker 3: golf oriented, but how is that experience working with an
Speaker 3: F wind driver and using what you guys have kind
Speaker 3: of implemented for golfers two different style of athletes.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's really fun because it's like, Wow,
Speaker 4: he's in this car for three plus hours, right, and
Speaker 4: he's got a kind of go in and out of
Speaker 4: what we call the playbox. You know, on the straightaways,
Speaker 4: he can come out of it a little bit, but
Speaker 4: when he's going to do the cours, yeah, I know exactly.
Speaker 4: I'm like, this is a whole different league. But we
Speaker 4: talk a lot about how to stay sensory present and
Speaker 4: you know with him, and it was really cool because
Speaker 4: he says, you know, the way I feel the car,
Speaker 4: I actually feel it my bum and he goes, you know,
Speaker 4: me and the car are won. But then he might
Speaker 4: not hit a corner that he likes, and he talks
Speaker 4: about that in his head. That's exactly like golf is interesting.
Speaker 4: I mean, like, oh, I should have hit that putt,
Speaker 4: you know, ball more out to the right, right. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And so it's how to manage the self talk that
Speaker 4: comes up and then get back to being sensory present.
Speaker 4: That is just like golf.
Speaker 3: It was there as you guys had those conversations. Did
Speaker 3: you see golfers in the way he was thinking just
Speaker 3: in terms of you know, I mean, every athlete is
Speaker 3: very different, but the core athletes are extremely I mean
Speaker 3: very good athletes are extremely petitive, and they're smart, and
Speaker 3: they understand their sport way better than most people. I
Speaker 3: think think they understand their sport. Did you see some
Speaker 3: similarities in some of the pro golfers you guys worked
Speaker 3: with With an F one driver.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yeah, And that's a good question.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I was saying so, and I think
Speaker 5: for them it's even more extreme. There's so much facts
Speaker 5: and signs and numbers and he knows that, and he
Speaker 5: needs to have this checklist and there's so much going
Speaker 5: into that for the car and him driving the track
Speaker 5: and all of that. But then still to be the
Speaker 5: best driver, he needs to be back to being intuitive
Speaker 5: and present and being in the field so it feels
Speaker 5: like it's golf, but even more challenging because of the
Speaker 5: speed golf.
Speaker 3: You're not normally going to die.
Speaker 4: But he's even shared with us. He goes, obviously, I
Speaker 4: don't think about that. It goes, you know, it's it's quick.
Speaker 4: But I just I've got to you know, it's just
Speaker 4: got to I've got to stay present.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, do your job and you'll be okay.
Speaker 3: And you're right, same as a golfer, do your job.
Speaker 3: If you can stay in it for eighteen holes and
Speaker 3: you're a professional golfer, you're somebody like Marty who's extremely
Speaker 3: good at golf. If you can handle all the emotions
Speaker 3: of a four and a half hour round of golf,
Speaker 3: it's probably gonna go pretty well.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And another thing he you know, in golf, we talk
Speaker 5: about a lot commit to golf shops and what that
Speaker 5: actually means, and he said he needs to have one
Speaker 5: hundred percent commitment too, for every corner. He can't be
Speaker 5: like ninety five. It's not good enough. And so many
Speaker 5: similarities there as well.
Speaker 3: How's the relationship gone with you guys in ping? And
Speaker 3: how did that start?
Speaker 4: I love ping?
Speaker 1: How did the relationship well?
Speaker 5: For me because you know, I came in I came
Speaker 5: here in the seventies to play for Arizona States. So
Speaker 5: I was fortunate enough to get to know Carston and
Speaker 5: Luis way way way back and started playing Pings then.
Speaker 5: And so the family has always been so supportive and
Speaker 5: it was what I played on tour, and as I
Speaker 5: started coaching, I had training camps here in Phoenix at
Speaker 5: Moon Valley and I've been honored to be so captain
Speaker 5: and being around the family that way. So it's it's
Speaker 5: for me much more than the club company. It's the
Speaker 5: culture that is. It's fantastic, and it's it's a really
Speaker 5: nice family to belong to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I came back here from a stint of
Speaker 4: working in California and became the director of instruction at
Speaker 4: Carston at ASU and and that was really when I became,
Speaker 4: you know, part of the Pink family and the thing
Speaker 4: and so the thing that I appreciate the most is
Speaker 4: like this cutting edge research, all these engineers, attention to detail,
Speaker 4: and then this feeling like you're part of a family
Speaker 4: that they really care. I mean, it's really unique, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I mean I have similar experiences, you know, I
Speaker 3: mean I was a blogger, you know, and I was
Speaker 3: writing articles like coming out of College, and they out
Speaker 3: lived in Phoenix, and they'd buy you out, and you know,
Speaker 3: you'd get treated like you were somebody important, you know,
Speaker 3: even though I mean I wasn't important. You know, they
Speaker 3: made you feel like it mattered. And you know, you
Speaker 3: get an email from Bill, you know, every six months
Speaker 3: you need anything, you know, those types of things. And
Speaker 3: then to get to this point where I've been able
Speaker 3: to work alongside the company, I mean, you really get
Speaker 3: that same sensation, and you hear from the tour players
Speaker 3: as well. I mean, I kind of across the board.
Speaker 3: It's a great company.
Speaker 4: So I just want to add too. The thing is
Speaker 4: here is that they also have an open mind, like
Speaker 4: they're interested in learning about what we're doing and how
Speaker 4: we're doing it. And sometimes I haven't felt that with
Speaker 4: other companies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going to say for me too. Early on,
Speaker 5: we just talked about your teachers here locally and in
Speaker 5: mind coming here from a foreign country. Was Pembernett, who
Speaker 5: was an LPGA player and she worked for Ping and
Speaker 5: she taught me just about everything I know about professional
Speaker 5: golf and the golf swing and how to act as
Speaker 5: a profession how to regroup my clubs, and without term
Speaker 5: I wouldn't have that connection with the ping.
Speaker 2: I think it'd be very easy for us to kind
Speaker 2: of think about our business as transactional. You know, you
Speaker 2: buy the equipment and you know, come see us for
Speaker 2: your next set irons. But we truly believe that it's
Speaker 2: in our tagline play your Best, is that we want
Speaker 2: people to play their best golf on the golf course.
Speaker 2: We want to have lifetime customers, and so I think
Speaker 2: it's been an awesome fit to have both of you
Speaker 2: officially part of the part of the family and helping
Speaker 2: us out.
Speaker 3: Peel In. This has been lovely. You guys are awesome.
Speaker 3: Been a fan of you guys for a long time.
Speaker 3: So I'm so pump we got to do this on
Speaker 3: the podcast. Thanks for the insights. People want to check
Speaker 3: out anything you guys do, go to one of those camps.
Speaker 3: Is the easiest way to go to Vision fiftyfour dot com.
Speaker 3: Is that the easiest way to do it, So check
Speaker 3: that out. Two of the rock Stars and golf. This
Speaker 3: is the Pink proven Grounds Podcast.