1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 2: Tim Freeman's work takes him to some of the most 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: remote places in Papua New Guinea PNG. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 3: For those who don't know, it is a very very 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 3: complex country in terms of terrain. We've got lots of 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 3: mountains and such like, and getting stuff is very expensive 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 3: and often we have to go to places with aeroplanes 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 3: and sometimes even helicopters. 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: Those helicopters that traversing mountainous terrain. It's all part of 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: an important mission that Tim's been chipping away at for decades. 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: He's the program manager of Rotarians Against Malaria, an NGO 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: funded by the Global Fund and partnered with Papua New 13 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: Guinea's National Malaria Control program, and their goal is to 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: eliminate malaria in the country. 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 3: I have a team of people here that we literally 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 3: we jump from one province to another every one to 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 3: two months, and basically this team of people work with 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 3: the local health authorities and we literally visit every village. 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: Tim says they do a census, checking every household in 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: every village of the country for the purpose of distributing 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: mosquito nets. Malaria is transmitted almost entirely through mosquitos who 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 2: carry the disease and in the poorest parts of the world. 23 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: One of the primary tools against these mosquitos are insecticide 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: nets that can kill them before they bite and infect someone. 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 2: How many nets total have you distributed over your time there? 26 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 3: Oh, overall since we've been here, about twenty million nets, 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: I think. 28 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 2: And for a while it really seemed like their strategy 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: was working. 30 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 3: By the time we got to twenty fifteen, the number 31 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: of cases that we were recording in the country was 32 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 3: half of what it was in two thousand and six, 33 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 3: So everybody here was very excited, thinking, right, we're on 34 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 3: the way to elimination. 35 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: In twenty ten, the total number of suspected malaria cases 36 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: in Papua New Guinea was one point seven million. By 37 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, there were only around nine hundred thousand, and 38 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: Tim says it looked like the country was on track 39 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: to completely eliminate malaria by twenty thirty. But then something changed. 40 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 3: All those dreams disappeared very quickly. 41 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: Today on the show Why, researchers say a single business 42 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: decision made by the world's biggest manufacturer of bednets reversed 43 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: years of work to eradicate malaria in a country that 44 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: at least for a while, was on track to beat it. 45 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 46 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News. 47 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 1: Malaria is a horrifying disease. It is a high fever, 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: shaking and chills. You have trouble breathing, diarrhea, abdominal pain, fatigue, 49 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: You suffer. People with malaria suffer. 50 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 2: That's my colleague Michelle fey Cortez. She's a global healthcare 51 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: reporter and senior editor at Bloomberg, and she broke down 52 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: why malaria is such a high stakes disease. 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: It can be very quickly fatal. People can die within 54 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: twenty four hours with malaria, and it's not the sort 55 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: of thing that you recover from quickly. It takes weeks 56 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: and months. It's just a terrible disease. 57 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: Malaria can be devastating for individuals and families, but it 58 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 2: can also have an impact at scale. The World Health 59 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: Organization or WHO, estimates the disease is responsible for dampening 60 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: the GDPs of some African countries by one point three percent, 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: and in its most recent malaria report, the organization says 62 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: as much as half of the world's population is now 63 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: at risk, including some parts of the US. One of 64 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: the most effective tools for combating malaria was developed at 65 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: the turn of the century, long lasting insecticidal nets. 66 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 4: That's a fancy name for a net that is coded 67 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 4: in insecticide. 68 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: That's my colleague Anna Edney. She also covers healthcare at Bloomberg. 69 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: She and Michelle teamed up on this reporting, and you'll 70 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: hear from both of them in the episode. They say 71 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: all their sources agreed that these nets that came with 72 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: insecticide built in were a total game changer. 73 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: Before these were invented, villages were receiving nets, and they 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 4: were having to dip them in the insecticide themselves, and 75 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 4: then when you wash them that can cause problems. You 76 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 4: need to dip it again, and so it's. 77 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: Laborious, laborious, and they didn't work as well. These new 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 2: pre treated nets were much more effective, and the results 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: spoke for themselves. Mosquito populations would plummet in the communities 80 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: where they were widely used, and malaria cases went down 81 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: with them. 82 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: When you look cumulatively over the course of time, the 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: impact of these insecticide treated nets is just amazing. One 84 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: of the few public health measures that has really made 85 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: a significant difference on one of the leading causes of 86 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: death in the developing world. 87 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: For a long time, all the insecticide treated nets in 88 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea came from one source, a Swiss company 89 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: called Vestigard. 90 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: Vestiguard has an amazing reputation for quality. They were one 91 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: of the very first companies to get involved in this space, 92 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: and everyone told us they were the gold standard, that 93 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: the nets that they were putting out and the other 94 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: efforts that they had made when it comes to public 95 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: health were really top notch. 96 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 2: Thanks to Vestigard's nets, it looked like the country was 97 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: on track to a malaria free future. But between twenty 98 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty twenty two, something shifted. Researchers found that 99 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: the annual number of malaria cases in Papua New Guinea 100 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 2: nearly doubled, completely, erasing the progress to him and his 101 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: team had seen. So what happened, that's after the break 102 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: we're back. From twenty six to twenty fifteen, Papa New 103 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 2: Guinea was on course to wipe out malaria from the country, 104 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: largely thanks to an insecticide laced mosquito net from the 105 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: Swiss company Vestigard. But in twenty sixteen cases started to 106 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 2: climb and researchers wanted to know why. Over the next 107 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: five years, as the problem continued to worsen, they considered 108 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: a lot of possibilities climate change, mosquitos growing resistant insecticides. 109 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: The list goes on. The country had reserves of unopened 110 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: vestigard nets going back to two thousand and seven, and 111 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: they were able to test their effectiveness at killing mosquitoes 112 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: from year to year. 113 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 4: They found that the nets worked much much better prior 114 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 4: to twenty twelve twenty thirteen, and they actually got worse 115 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 4: in the later years. There were only about seventeen percent 116 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 4: effective compared to one hundred percent effective before twenty twelve. 117 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: A team of researchers published those findings that the older 118 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: vestigard nets were much more effective than the newer ones 119 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: in a peer reviewed journal in twenty twenty, but they 120 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: still didn't know why it was happening. How could these nets, 121 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 2: which were touted as the gold standard in the fight 122 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: against malaria suddenly drop off in quality. 123 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: They really couldn't figure it out, and they did try 124 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: for quite some time. Then some researchers from Papua New 125 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: Guinea went to a meeting in Liverpool actually, and they 126 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: came across another expert in chemical coatings, and that person said, 127 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: have you actually looked at the way the nets were made, 128 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: at what was being put on the nets to see 129 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: if there was a change there. So that's when a 130 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: light bulb moment occurred and the researchers sent off the 131 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: nets and found out in fact that there had been 132 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: a change in the coating of the netting that happened 133 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: in twenty twelve twenty thirteen, and that that is what 134 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: they believe was the cause of the issue. 135 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: It would turn out that right around twenty twelve and 136 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, Vestiguard changed the way it bonded the insecticide 137 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: to its nets. Up until that point to get the 138 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: insecticide to stick to the net for years, even after 139 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: multiple washes, the company had used what are known. 140 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 4: As polychloro alcohol substances, which you might know is pfos 141 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 4: or forever chemicals. 142 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: PFAX chemicals have historically been used and things a lot 143 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: of us use every day, from nonstick cookwaar to water 144 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: repellent clothes to stain resistant fabrics and carpets. But even 145 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: if pfast chemicals are really good at getting insecticide to 146 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: stick to mosquito nets. They're not without their own risks. 147 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 4: There's a cancer risk that's associated with pfas as well 148 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 4: as potentially developmental issues for kids, so not great to 149 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 4: have that in the coding. 150 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: And it reached out to Vestiguard to ask the company 151 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: why it had decided to stop using pfast chemicals in 152 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: its manufacturing process. 153 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 4: Vestor Guard said that they changed the nets because the 154 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 4: supplier that they got the ingredients for the coding from 155 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 4: stopped selling the PIFAs material and that they needed to 156 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 4: change that. They didn't say who the supplier was, but 157 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 4: they said that they decided to go with a different ingredient, 158 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 4: which they didn't tell us what the ingredient was. 159 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 2: To report the story, Anna and Michelle spoke with more 160 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: than three dozen malaria and net experts, business leaders, and 161 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: industry consultants from around the globe, and while Vestigard told 162 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: Bloomberg that it had stopped using a p fas coding 163 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: because of supplier issues, Anna and Michelle also talked to 164 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: two consultants with knowledge of net technology, including one who 165 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 2: used to work at Vestigard and asked not to be named, 166 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: and they said, Vestiguard could have chosen a more effective 167 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: substitute for prefast chemicals, and the fight against malaria and 168 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea wouldn't have lost as much ground if 169 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: only the company had decided to go with a more 170 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: expensive option. They said. The reason the nets stopped working 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,479 Speaker 2: as well was because the company had picked a cheaper replacement. 172 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 4: They had different options that they could have gone with, 173 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 4: but they decided to go with this option. 174 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: How has Vestigard responded to that criticism and the allegation 175 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: that the nets are less effective? 176 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 4: So they haven't acknowledged that the nets are less effective. 177 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 4: They have acknowledged that there is a broad range of 178 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 4: what can be considered an effective net and that they 179 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 4: still fit into that category. So they still meet who's 180 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 4: criteria for being a net that and be sold to 181 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 4: prevent malaria, but they still aren't as good as they 182 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 4: once were. 183 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: Until twenty seventeen, the WHO did not require net manufacturers 184 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: to inform them of manufacturing changes, and Vestiguard didn't disclose 185 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: the change to their nets, but that had wide implications. 186 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: The thing is is that at the time, the company 187 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: didn't notify the World Health Organization that they were changing 188 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: the way they made the bed nets, and they didn't 189 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: tell anyone who was being affected by that. They also 190 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: didn't tell anyone when we started seeing these rates increasing 191 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: and as people on the ground in Papua New Guinea 192 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: were trying to figure out what was going on. They 193 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 1: also didn't say it then. 194 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: And has done a lot of reporting on healthcare products 195 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: that don't work as well as they're supposed to, and 196 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 2: she says the story of Vestigard in Papua New Guinea 197 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: is an example of what can happen when the balance 198 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: between cost and quality is thrown off. 199 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: One thing that was reinforced when I was reporting as 200 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 4: that when, particularly in public health, we're looking at products 201 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: that we're trying to buy for either medicine or preventing disease, 202 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 4: is anything along those lines that just buying the cheapest 203 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 4: thing is not always going to be the best. 204 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea has been able to secure nets made 205 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 2: by other manufacturers, but Vestigard is still producing and distributing 206 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: its nets all over the world. The company can test 207 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: the methods that researchers used to show that their nets 208 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: were less effective than before, but the World's Health Organization 209 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: has told Bloomberg it is very concerned by the implications 210 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 2: of the research. They've asked for the underlying data to 211 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: look into it more. The WHO has also raised concerns 212 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: about the quality of nets manufactured by other companies and 213 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 2: in other countries, and compounding trends in the industry like 214 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: growing global demand for nets and more competition among suppliers, 215 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: have some researchers worried that the quality of these life 216 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: saving nets will only continue to drop. Tim Freeman says 217 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: they're feeling the effects of those shifts on the ground 218 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: in Papua New Guinea. 219 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 3: The simple message here is the nets that we are 220 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: receiving now, not only from vesta God, don't seem to 221 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: be as good as the ones that we had in 222 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: the past. So this is not just a problem for 223 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: vestor God. It seems to be right across the board. 224 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: What I want to see is new generational nets that 225 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 3: are much more efficient than the previous ones that via 226 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 3: in distributing for the last ten years. 227 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: Though today's nets aren't perfect, Anna and Michelle's sources emphasize 228 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: that having nets at all is better than having no nets, 229 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 2: Even as people on the ground advocate for better ones. 230 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: Everyone that we've talked to has said, you know, please 231 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: don't denigrate nets. We need people to believe in the nets. 232 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: We need the funders to pay for the nets. We 233 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: need the doctors to distribute the nets. We need the 234 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: people on the ground who are dealing with malaria and 235 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: their daily rates to believe in the nets and to 236 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: use them, to put their kids under them, to sleep 237 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: under them every night. But that doesn't mean that they're 238 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: as good as they can be. It doesn't mean that 239 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: they're as good as they used to be. And that's 240 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: something that we really do feel like should be a 241 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: discussion in public health circles. 242 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 243 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by David Fox. It was edited 244 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: by Aaron Edwards, Caitlin Kenny, and Angelie Cordero. It was 245 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: mixed by Alex Uguia. It was fact checked by Tiffany Choi. 246 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: Our senior producers are Naomi Shaven and Jill did Dy Carly. 247 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 2: We get editorial direction from Elizabeth Ponso. Nicole beemsterbor is 248 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: our executive producer. Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. 249 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Please follow and review, The Big Take 250 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts that helps new listeners find 251 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: the show. We'll be back tomorrow.