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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A gorgeous young mom suddenly goes missing or did she?

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us here at Phoccination and Serious exem one eleven.

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Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 2: wa Ay.

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Speaker 3: Mother is desperately searching for her daughter Tonight, gone without

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Speaker 3: a trace. She explains the last time anyone saw Mary

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Speaker 3: Isabel and her worst fears about where she might be.

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Speaker 3: Debbie Wood is heartbroken, to say the least. Her daughter,

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Speaker 3: Mary Elizabeth Isbel has been missing since November twenty third.

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Speaker 2: Part of me wants to believe she's still here.

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Speaker 4: The part says, I'm ready for a funeral.

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Speaker 2: Can you even imagine that? As a mother? You think

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Speaker 2: all your love, all your time, all your energy, all

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Speaker 2: your money, your hard work literally blood, sweat and tears

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Speaker 2: into raising your child, and then suddenly you don't know

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Speaker 2: if they're dead or alive where they are. Seemingly, this

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Speaker 2: girl Mary Isbel vanishes into thin air, not a trace

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Speaker 2: left behind. That's really rare in our world. First, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go straight out to James shell Nutt, high profile

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Speaker 2: lawyer joining us from the shell Nut Firm twenty seven

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Speaker 2: years in Metro, major case and SWAT and you can

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Speaker 2: find them at shell Nut Law Firm dot com. When

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Speaker 2: I say that's really odd, because we all leave some

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Speaker 2: sort of a trace, I mean, if you looked at

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Speaker 2: my NAV on my minivan, you'd see the triangle home school,

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Speaker 2: grocery store, church, home school, grocery church are just over

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Speaker 2: and over and over again. That leaves a trace, that

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Speaker 2: leaves a trail. Cell phones, social media, you name it.

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Speaker 2: We leave traces as to where we've been, what we're doing.

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Speaker 2: But seemingly Mary i Isspel just vanished and the mom

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Speaker 2: has no idea where her daughter is. Can you even

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Speaker 2: imagine that?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 5: And you're right, I mean, normally there is some evidence.

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Speaker 5: You can find something somewhere. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 5: times there actually is a piece of evidence in some trace,

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Speaker 5: but it just takes a while for law enforcement to

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Speaker 5: locate that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it takes a minute. I'm looking at a

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Speaker 2: shot of Maryspel right right now, and I got to

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Speaker 2: tell you she looks like a beauty queen. I mean, big,

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Speaker 2: beautiful smile, perfect teeth, perfect smile, the long blonde hair,

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Speaker 2: great figure. Joining me right now is Savannah Sap, multimedia

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Speaker 2: journalist reporter WAFF forty eight. Savannah, thanks for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I mean she looks like the Homecoming Queen and Miss

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Speaker 2: Sweet Potato wrapped all together in one. What do we

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Speaker 2: know about Mary iskeel Well, one.

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Speaker 6: Thing is for sure that she is a loving mother

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Speaker 6: and a loving sister. Mary issell Right had three older sisters,

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Speaker 6: I believe, and once she was reported missing. From what

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Speaker 6: I've seen on social media, it is amazing how they

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Speaker 6: jumped in together to find her. But she was family

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Speaker 6: oriented and like you said, Nancy, beautiful woman and a

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Speaker 6: loving mother as.

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Speaker 2: Well, loving mother to a young son. Doctor Bethany Marshall

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Speaker 2: joining me Renow psycho analyst joining us out of Beverly

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Speaker 2: Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, thanks

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Speaker 2: for being with us. Then not knowing the not knowing

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Speaker 2: what happened, that is tortuous. And I got to tell

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Speaker 2: you something, doctor Bethany. I didn't like what I knew

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Speaker 2: about what happened to my fiancee, Keith, who was murdered.

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Speaker 2: But I knew, I knew that he was dead. I

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Speaker 2: didn't go to sleep every night wondering can I help him.

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Speaker 2: Can I find him? Will he be found?

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 2: Is he suffering? What is happening to him? Is there

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Speaker 2: any way I can save him? The not knowing has

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Speaker 2: got to be excruciating.

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Speaker 8: Nanthy, you heard me say this over and over again.

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Speaker 8: In the space of the unknown, we read our worst

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Speaker 8: possible fears, and there's an evolutionary basis for that. When

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Speaker 8: we were developing sort of millennia ago, when we didn't

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Speaker 8: know where the predator was, we had less of a

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Speaker 8: chance of survival. So now in our modern day world old,

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Speaker 8: when we don't know what happened, we become more anxious.

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Speaker 8: Now have you heard families when they have a lost

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Speaker 8: loved one say, I just want them to bring my

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Speaker 8: daughter home. It's dead or alive, I just want her home.

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Speaker 8: And you think it's so interesting. It's less. I mean,

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Speaker 8: obviously they want their loved one to be alive, but

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Speaker 8: primarily they want to know what happened to that person.

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Speaker 8: If you've said the imaginations run, and I think with

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Speaker 8: everything we know about crime and all the stories that

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Speaker 8: you expose, the worst possible fear is that person is

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Speaker 8: being tortured and kidnapped and held somewhere and then there's

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Speaker 8: the thought that every second, every second that ticks by,

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Speaker 8: is a precious second.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, I think I've ever told you this, but

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Speaker 2: for a long time after my fiancee Keith was murdered,

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Speaker 2: the dreams are not necessarily about his death. The dreams

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Speaker 2: were about him still being alive and me trying to

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Speaker 2: find him. That in the dream, I would know something

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Speaker 2: horrible was happening, but he was still alive. For instance,

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Speaker 2: I would find out, let's just pretend he was at

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Speaker 2: forty three New York City Avenue, and I would be looking.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it would always be at night, and there

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Speaker 2: would meet the street lights, and I'd be trudging along

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Speaker 2: this show of the road and there'd be forty one,

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Speaker 2: forty two, forty four, and I would look. I go

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Speaker 2: back to try to find forty three, and I could

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Speaker 2: never find. I could hear his voice, and I could

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Speaker 2: hear music, or I could hear conversation and laughter, and

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Speaker 2: I'd be trying to find it. And then I'd wake up,

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Speaker 2: thinking he's still alive, jump out of the bed literally

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Speaker 2: and start running toward the door to try to help.

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Speaker 2: And then it would hit me, wait, wait, he's I

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Speaker 2: can't help him. There's nothing I can do so that

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Speaker 2: not knowing whether this woman, this gorgeous mom, Mary Elizabeth

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Speaker 2: ispell Wright, is dead or alive, I can't even imagine

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Speaker 2: that much less for the sun she has a boy.

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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, you are having trauma dreams, and I'm sure

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Speaker 8: this mother is having nightmares of her own. And you

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Speaker 8: and I have talked about this so many times that

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Speaker 8: in the face of the unknown, we read our worst

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Speaker 8: possible fears. It's almost better to know if the person's

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Speaker 8: dead or alive than to not know at all. Because

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Speaker 8: if we don't know what's happened to the lost loved one,

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Speaker 8: we imagine them being held. We imagine them being tortured.

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Speaker 8: We imagine minutes and seconds just ticking by and us

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Speaker 8: standing by helpless. So many families say I just want

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Speaker 8: my bring my child home. I hope they bring him

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Speaker 8: home or her home, And what they really mean is

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Speaker 8: dead or alive. They want to know what happened. We

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Speaker 8: have a need to know. Ante there's a strong evolutionary

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Speaker 8: biological basis for this. Our ancestors had a better chance

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Speaker 8: of survival if they knew where the danger was coming

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Speaker 8: from and they could get away from it. But if

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Speaker 8: they didn't know, their chances of a survival lowered. And

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Speaker 8: I think it's the same with these lost person cases

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Speaker 8: that when we know there's a better chance of survival

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Speaker 8: for the victim.

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Speaker 2: Guys, the search is on for this woman, her mom

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Speaker 2: desperately wanting answers. Take a listen to our friend Nikael

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Speaker 2: Williams Waay a police ay.

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Speaker 3: They first received reports of isbel being gone in January.

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Speaker 4: Now I can't find her.

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Speaker 9: Typically, you know, we don't have adults go missing this

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Speaker 9: long or make contact with a family member within two

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Speaker 9: or three months.

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Speaker 10: So this is a this is abnormal.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's super irritating and sometimes devastating to a

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Speaker 2: missing person case. Have you ever noticed Chris Buyers Christopher Byers,

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Speaker 2: former police chief John's Creek, twenty five years in Elle

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Speaker 2: law enforcement, now private investigator and polygrapher with Lancaster Information Services. Chris,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us when an adult goes missing,

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Speaker 2: and I've seen it happen with juveniles as well. When

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Speaker 2: cop say no offense, Ah, she'll turn up. She's just

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Speaker 2: off with her new boyfriend. Well guess what. Typically there's

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Speaker 2: not a new boyfriend. And I will never forget when

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Speaker 2: that was said about Stacy Peterson, a mom of I

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Speaker 2: think three who just vanished. Of course, you got to

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Speaker 2: consider the source in that one, Chris. That was Drew Peterson,

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Speaker 2: her cop husband, saying, oh, she just ran off with

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Speaker 2: her lover. They're having an a there, you know, trying

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Speaker 2: to drag her through the well. She's dead. Her body

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Speaker 2: has never been found. He just got convicted for the

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Speaker 2: murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. Meanwhile, Stacy Peterson

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Speaker 2: body still missing. But I can tell you that she

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Speaker 2: did not run off with a sex interest. There was

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Speaker 2: no book lover, there was no boyfriend. Drew Peterson killed her.

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Speaker 2: And that is one example of the theory she ran

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Speaker 2: off with Phil in the blank, It's not true. And

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Speaker 2: I'm just wondering how much that played into the missing

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Speaker 2: person's report of Mary Elizabeth Espell.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, definitely. It's one of the things that I am

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Speaker 11: very critical of my fellow officers and my profession and

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Speaker 11: as a public information officer for about twelve years. It's

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Speaker 11: it just seems to be that within law enforcement there

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Speaker 11: is this there is this tendency to downplay these missing

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Speaker 11: person cases on adults. It's definitely a pitfall that law

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Speaker 11: enforcement needs to be aware of. But yes, I agree

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Speaker 11: with you. It is a trend that I see all

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Speaker 11: too often throughout my career, and it is extremely frustrating.

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Speaker 2: And you lose such valuable time while the missing person

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Speaker 2: is quote off with a new boyfriend. I don't like it,

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Speaker 2: especially when you have a child involved. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: is no way. Just let me put it on the record.

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Speaker 2: I would ever willingly, no way in h e double

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Speaker 2: al willingly leave my twins. Ever, no matter what, I

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Speaker 2: don't need me time. I don't need to go sit

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Speaker 2: in a mud bath somewhere. I don't need those hot

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Speaker 2: rocks put on my back. I don't need a girl's weekend,

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Speaker 2: don't I don't need to go check in to some

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Speaker 2: hotel and read and watch movies. I'm fine leave. That's

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Speaker 2: how most mothers feel regarding they may need some time out,

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Speaker 2: but leaving your children yet, that's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 8: So, Nancy, if I should jump in that, but I stop.

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Speaker 2: You could I stop? You Go ahead, guys, you're hearing

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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 1: Marshall Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle dupre Is with us. Who is uncharacteristically quiet.

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Speaker 2: Right now, She's shot to the front of public consciousness

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Speaker 2: during the Alexan Murdoch double murder trial. Doctor Dupre forensic pathologist,

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Speaker 2: medical examiner, former detective, and author of literally wrote the

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Speaker 2: book Homicide Investigation Field Guy Dodtor Dupre jump in. Okay,

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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, Well.

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Speaker 8: Well, if some mothers going to abandon a child, which

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Speaker 8: is very rare, chances are she abandoned the child from birds,

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Speaker 8: or she has a history of not being bonded.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you mean like a cat. How they have a

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Speaker 2: litter out under the deck off the back of the

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Speaker 2: house and then they just disappear and you find the

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Speaker 2: cats and have to take care of them. That yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: what do you call that? I'm sure you have a

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Speaker 2: very fancy psychoanalyst term for acting like a cat.

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Speaker 8: Well, it's pretty simple. We say lack of maternal bonding.

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Speaker 2: I like acting like a cat better. But you know,

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Speaker 2: you say tomato, I say tomato. So here there was

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Speaker 2: not that at all, no lack of bonding with the sun. So, guys,

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Speaker 2: how did the whole thing go down? When do we

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Speaker 2: realize that Mary Spell is missing? Take a listen to

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Speaker 2: Nick Brown, Chief investigator out of Alabama.

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Speaker 9: Mary was reported missing by her ex host to Heartsell

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Speaker 9: Police Department, and that was December twenty seventh of They

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Speaker 9: started working the case and they determined through phone records

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Speaker 9: that Mary was living in our area into Cab County

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Speaker 9: at the time, on Lookout Mountain and we picked up

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Speaker 9: the case. I received the phone call from one of

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Speaker 9: the lead investigators at HERTZLL.

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Speaker 3: What says she stopped by the house that day but.

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Speaker 4: Call my husband Dannie at work, and they left Haunsell

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Speaker 4: and headed home. He called the police because we really

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Speaker 4: didn't know at the time who it was. And by

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Speaker 4: the tom he got there, the place was gone, but

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Speaker 4: they were up the road and no more SIGNABAA.

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Speaker 2: So let me understand what happened. First of all, we

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Speaker 2: know that this is Lookout Mountain area in Alabama to

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Speaker 2: Cab County, Alabama. Savannah South is with us WAF forty eight.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the area, let's just start with that.

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Speaker 11: Well, see, the.

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Speaker 6: Area of the Cab County is filled with beautiful mountains,

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Speaker 6: but it's pretty much for the most part rural. You

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Speaker 6: have areas like Fort Payne, Hnegar. You know, all of

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Speaker 6: the surrounding areas including Lookout Mountain are pretty quiet, pretty serene.

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Speaker 6: And it's interesting to note that Mary Elizabeth Ifel was

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Speaker 6: reported mentalingly in Hertzell, but was found to be living

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Speaker 6: into Cab County, which is about I would say, around

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Speaker 6: two hours east of Hartzell. So it was kind of

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Speaker 6: jarring for all of us to learn that she was

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Speaker 6: in the Cab County or supposedly into Cab County this

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Speaker 6: entire time, or was living there for a short period

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Speaker 6: of time.

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Speaker 2: Where in Alabama is Decab County and Lookout Mountain? Where

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Speaker 2: is that? Exactly?

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Speaker 6: If you're looking at Huntsville, the Tennessee Valley area Fort

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Speaker 6: Pain in the Cabb County is going to be the

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Speaker 6: northeastern side of Alabama, right under the Tennessee state line.

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Speaker 2: Now in Lookout Mountain. The Lookout Mountain area in Alabama

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Speaker 2: population is about two thousand, very similar to where I

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Speaker 2: grew up in rural Bibb County in Georgia. And I

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Speaker 2: can tell you about this area specifically. I've been there

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Speaker 2: many many times because in Huntsville, not that far away,

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Speaker 2: there is a huge Scout center, a National Boy Scout Center,

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Speaker 2: I believe, isn't it James shell Nutt joining us. Isn't

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Speaker 2: there also a NASA structure there as well, a NASA center.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a NASA center in the Huntsville and not

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Speaker 5: in Little River Canyon.

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Speaker 2: So she said that she mentioned the Huntsville area. It's very,

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Speaker 2: very mountainous and every road is very circuitous, hard to

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Speaker 2: really get anywhere, and that adds to the difficulty of

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Speaker 2: the search in this case. So where is Elizabeth Beth

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Speaker 2: is spelled seemingly vanishing into thin air? Take a listen

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Speaker 2: again to Nick Brown. Chief investigator Parsel.

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Speaker 9: PD had began working at They put her into Cab

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Speaker 9: County by phone records.

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Speaker 2: Through those phone records.

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Speaker 9: We determined some of the people that she was speaking

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Speaker 9: with at the time of her disappearance. We were pretty

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Speaker 9: sure that it happened between October and November of twenty

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Speaker 9: twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Through those phone.

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Speaker 9: Records, whe we were able to track down a few

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Speaker 9: people and talk to them and determine where she was leaving.

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Speaker 9: We recovered physical evidence from her home that showed signs

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Speaker 9: of a struggle, and we knew that at that time

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Speaker 9: that it was a crime scene.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that progressed pretty quickly, So they did all this.

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Speaker 2: The investigators here, who are keeping everything very close to

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Speaker 2: the best, they find where she was living through phone records.

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Speaker 2: They then analyze the phone records and determine to whom

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Speaker 2: she is speaking the most. They that's how they find

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Speaker 2: her friends, people she's talking to all the time. And

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Speaker 2: isn't this right? James shell Nutt, high profile lawyer joining

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Speaker 2: us out of this jurisdiction. You can also ping the phone.

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Speaker 2: You can determine how long conversations last, but you look

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Speaker 2: for recurring numbers, who the individual is speaking with the most,

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Speaker 2: how often those calls were made. But you have to

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Speaker 2: go through a subpoena. The phone company is not the

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Speaker 2: friend of police or prosecutors. You have to go through

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Speaker 2: a jump a lot of hurdles to get these phone records.

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Speaker 2: And then what do you do with those phone records

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Speaker 2: and the information you get from them.

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Speaker 5: Well, you're Arm's saying correct, they're not the friend of

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Speaker 5: law enforcement. A lot of the time do have to

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Speaker 5: force them to turn that information over. Of course, there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of privacy laws, but once you get those

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Speaker 5: phone records, you know, you essentially develop what's more or

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Speaker 5: less a spreadsheet and determine how often like you said,

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Speaker 5: they've called these people, what type of contact they've had,

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Speaker 5: how frequent it is, And that's so important because you know,

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Speaker 5: in a missing person's case or some other type of

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Speaker 5: case like that, where you're looking for someone, you want

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Speaker 5: to start with the people closest to them and speak

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Speaker 5: with those people first, the people who they've had the

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Speaker 5: most recent contact with, that they've had the most contact with,

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Speaker 5: including family and friends, and then work your way further

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Speaker 5: out of that circle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So often we say, what's taking so long? Well,

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Speaker 2: this is what's taking so long. Somebody vanishes into thin

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Speaker 2: air and you have to subpoena their phone documents and

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Speaker 2: then start structuring what was happening around the last time

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Speaker 2: they were seeing. Now we know that the mother goes

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Speaker 2: to where her daughter's living, nobody there. She calls police,

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Speaker 2: but the woman beth Elizabeth isbel is first reported by

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Speaker 2: her exported missing and frankly, doctor Bethany Marshall, when you

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Speaker 2: have someone report the individual missing, that tends to indicate

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Speaker 2: they didn't have anything to do with it.

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Speaker 8: Oh, Nancy, you're absolutely right. But occasionally there's the husband

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Speaker 8: or the boyfriend who once they find out their partner's missing,

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Speaker 8: and they failed to report. They're the ones that go

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Speaker 8: out and hand out the flyers, walk around the neighborhood crying,

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Speaker 8: they go on air and say, oh, I'm trying to

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Speaker 8: find I'm trying to find Mary or Elizabeth or whoever.

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Speaker 8: And they're the ones who did it. So if it's

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Speaker 8: the perpetrator, they tend to jump in after the fact

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Speaker 8: in a very dramatic way. If it's somebody who's really

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Speaker 8: in a sense it has nothing to do with the crime,

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Speaker 8: they are the first ones to go forward, and they're

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Speaker 8: usually the first ones to notice because in this case,

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Speaker 8: this was her former husband. This was the father of

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Speaker 8: that teenager whose mother didn't call on Christmas on his birthday,

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Speaker 8: and they said she always called during very important holidays

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Speaker 8: and seasons, and she was remarkably absent during those important times.

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Speaker 8: So they've felt the absence there that says, but this

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Speaker 8: man is not the perpetrator, clearly, And.

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Speaker 2: Of course talked to Michelle Daprie. You've seen a lot

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Speaker 2: of dead bodies, going to many mini homicide scenes and

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Speaker 2: conducting literally thousands of autopsies. And this is not based

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Speaker 2: on statistics, this is anecdotal. I often see the husband

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Speaker 2: of the boyfriend calling when they quote find the body,

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Speaker 2: not when the person is missing and nobody's found the

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Speaker 2: body yet, but when they find the body. Let's just

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Speaker 2: talk about Murdoch again. He's the one that called nine

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Speaker 2: one one when he quote found Maggie and his son

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Speaker 2: Paul dead. Of course he killed them. But when they

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Speaker 2: find the body, or ostensibly find the body, they call

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Speaker 2: when the person is just missing. I don't see those

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Speaker 2: calls coming from the love interest as much.

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Speaker 10: Nancy. I think you're absolutely right. And you know, anytime

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Speaker 10: there is a suspicion of foul play, the husband or

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Speaker 10: the wife or the boyfriend or girlfriend is always one

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Speaker 10: of the first suspects, and whoever finds that person is

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Speaker 10: always one of the first suspects as well, because that's

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Speaker 10: the way to keep themselves involved in the investigation and

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Speaker 10: try to throw off law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Big red flag. When they get to Elizabeth's home, they

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Speaker 2: find signs of a struggle. Listen to our friends at WHNT.

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Speaker 12: Investigators gave us a good bit of insight today into

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Speaker 12: how they got to this point in the case. It's brutal, yes,

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Speaker 12: a lot of evil from the beginning. Chief and to

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Speaker 12: Gator Nick Brown, says they felt something was wrong in

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Speaker 12: the missing person's case of Mary Elizabeth is Boll.

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Speaker 9: We recovered physical evidence from her home that showed signs

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Speaker 9: that they struggle, and a we knew that at that

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Speaker 9: time that it was a crime scene.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you know it's a crime scene. You find signs

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Speaker 2: of a struggle. But what did they find? Take a

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Speaker 2: listen to our friend Nikel Williams.

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Speaker 4: And you thuck had to get her body back.

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Speaker 2: I'd rather he were love. But my feory is she's

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Speaker 2: not seen anymore.

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Speaker 3: A Debbie Wood says, police chants out to see cab County.

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Speaker 2: Where is the lid?

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Speaker 3: They found her driver's license and her social Security card,

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Speaker 3: but not her If you know anything about where she

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Speaker 3: might be called authorities.

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Speaker 2: So where are you going to go in life as

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Speaker 2: an adult without your driver's license or your social Security card?

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Speaker 2: That's what they found, leading them to believe she went

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Speaker 2: nowhere willingly. Plus they say they found evidence of a crime.

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Speaker 2: So about asaf joining us WAFF forty eight, do we

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Speaker 2: know what suggested a crime had been committed? What did

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Speaker 2: they find in her own well?

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Speaker 6: Yancy and my understanding this from the times that I've

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Speaker 6: spoken to investigators. They investigated her residence where she was

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Speaker 6: said to have been living at the time, and as

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Speaker 6: well as the vehicle she was driving. You know, they

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Speaker 6: described that they had found physical evidence. They would never,

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Speaker 6: you know, disclose what that physical evidence was, but they

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Speaker 6: did enter it into a database, came up with the matches.

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Speaker 6: But from what investigators saw at her residence and in

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Speaker 6: her vehicle, there were signs of a struggle. Quoting she's

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Speaker 6: investigator Nick.

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Speaker 2: Brown, signs of a struggle. But then as we were

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Speaker 2: talking earlier about the ex husband, the father of the

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Speaker 2: teen boy reporting Elizabeth missing, then all eyes began to

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Speaker 2: focus on the new boyfriend. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 2: friends at w AAY thirty one.

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Speaker 3: Her mother says she was in a new but troubled relationship.

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Speaker 4: They were always fighting and then it's like poof, he's gone.

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Speaker 4: Don't know where he's at. I finally get to talk

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Speaker 4: to him and he said, hey, I know she's missing.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 3: Her only wish is that someone who knows anything will

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Speaker 3: just come forward.

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Speaker 2: A name of girl. Okay, that's not good when your

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Speaker 2: boyfriend disappears right after you disappear. How many times Christopher

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Speaker 2: Byer's former police chief, John's Creek. Have we seen that

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Speaker 2: happen the boyfriend just disappears?

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Speaker 11: Oh yeah, absolutely, it happens more time than that, And

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Speaker 11: even the FBI would call that a clue that you

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Speaker 11: need to start to circle in.

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Speaker 2: Even the FBI, I would call that a clue.

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Speaker 11: So yeah, it's time to start looking hard at him.

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Speaker 2: But then, amazingly, he takes the call from Mary, Elizabeth

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Speaker 2: Espell's mother and tell sir what she's missing. Okay, I

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Speaker 2: don't believe that either. How could he not know the

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Speaker 2: girlfriend is missing? But he did take the call, so

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Speaker 2: he is reachable. But then out of the blue, a

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Speaker 2: turn and the case listen to Emily Forrester, wh and T.

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Speaker 12: For a year and a half, they tracked down leads,

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Speaker 12: but nothing came to Fruition investigators said they got a

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Speaker 12: new credible tip last Tuesday that matched some of their

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Speaker 12: early findings.

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Speaker 9: The tip that came in was some of the names

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Speaker 9: I was looking at at that time, So that kind

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Speaker 9: of re sparked a interest in those certain people.

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Speaker 2: Well, right there, that tells me that the tip that

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Speaker 2: they get a year over a year after or Elizabeth

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Speaker 2: Estpell goes missing matches up. He says, people that they

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Speaker 2: were looking at earlier. Does that mean somebody on that

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Speaker 2: call list from her cell phone? Okay, take a listen

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Speaker 2: again to w H and T.

436
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 9: Once was very cooperative and helped us and to lead

437
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 9: to Mary's remains where we recovered them Wednesday. They were

438
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 9: actually confirmed today to be Mary Elizabeth and it's no

439
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 9: better day than on her birthday.

440
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 12: Brown says. It appears Isabel died from being thrown off

441
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 12: a cliff in Little River Canyon National Park.

442
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: Thrown off a cliff. Beth ispell is not missing. She's dead.

443
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: Thrown off a cliff, you know Dr Bethany Marshall's taco

444
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: Ally side of Beverly Hills. I've seen a lot of homicide,

445
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: but it takes a certain let me just say, mindset

446
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: to push somebody off a nity.

447
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 8: This is so cool and heinous. I can't even find

448
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 8: the words like, I'm just imagining whoever the perpetrator or

449
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 8: perpetrators are uh apprehending this poor woman, kidnapping her, clutching her,

450
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 8: picking her up, throwing her off the cliff. The rage

451
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 8: that went into this. You know, we cover homicides where

452
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 8: there are you know, multiple stabbings, where there are you

453
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 8: know where women are are raped, choked, beaten, but thrown

454
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 8: off a cliff takes a unique type of rage towards

455
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 8: the victim exactly.

456
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: Nancy, Wait, who is this Michelle Duprey?

457
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 11: Yeah?

458
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: Can you imagine her last moments?

459
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 10: I cannot. And this is something very personal, mancy. You

460
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 10: have to touch that person, and you know, you have

461
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 10: to know that you are up close and personal. It's

462
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 10: not like shooting a gun from a distance. This was

463
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 10: very parsonal to push or shove someone off a cliff.

464
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: I wonder if she was lured there, if she was

465
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 2: forced there, How does she get to the top of

466
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: a cliff to be shoved off? And how do we

467
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: know she didn't slip at fall? Guys, now take a

468
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: listen to this.

469
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 12: Investigators made the first arrest in the case Sunday and

470
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 12: announced the second suspect Friday.

471
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 9: One of the co defendants was very cooperative and helped

472
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 9: us and to lead to Mary's remains where we recovered

473
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 9: them Wednesday.

474
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 12: Several factors led them to charge the suspects with capital murder.

475
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 9: This case meets the criteria not only by kidnapping, but

476
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 9: by multiple other statutes that bring in the capitol so

477
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 9: It's very unhuman, very human and brutal. What these ladies

478
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 9: done to Mary.

479
00:29:51,040 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: What these ladies, What these ladies did to Mary. Ladies,

480
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: listen to our friends wh and t.

481
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 12: A mother and daughter now facing capital murder charges and

482
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 12: the death of a woman investigators believe was pushed off

483
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 12: a cliff. The Dacab County Sheriff's Office says Mary Elizabeth

484
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 12: Ibol has been missing since late twenty twenty one. Her

485
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 12: remains were found two days ago in Little River Canyon

486
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 12: National Park and identified today on what would have been

487
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 12: her thirty ninth birthday. Two women are charged with capital

488
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 12: murder in her death, now, Loretta Carr and Carr's daughter,

489
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 12: jesse Eden Kelly.

490
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 9: They are all acquaintances, mainly to a boyfriend, so I

491
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 9: can't give too much details on that right now, but

492
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 9: they all do come back to one specific person.

493
00:30:41,920 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 13: Okay, crime stories with Nancy Grace, Please tell me, Savannah

494
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 13: sap w Aff forty eight.

495
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: That these two women, a mother and a daughter, did

496
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: not push Elizabeth Ispell off a cliff over a man.

497
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 6: According to River investigators, Nancy, they did. And it's interesting

498
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 6: to me that you know one of the descendants is

499
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 6: basically being very very cooperative with investigators, while the other

500
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 6: is filing emotions in court saying there's not enough, there's

501
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 6: not enough evidence to charge her. It's very interesting, you

502
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 6: know that there's kind of two sides of this. They're

503
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 6: both kind of petered against each other.

504
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: So you've got one ratting out the other, and the

505
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: two co defendants are mother and daughter. I mean, I've

506
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: seen a lot to murder this gorgeous young mom by

507
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: throwing her off a cliff over a man. No offense

508
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: to the men on the panel right now, but I

509
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: remember my grandmother on my father's side would say they're

510
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: all alike, you know, they just look different. Plus I

511
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: knew it will come along every fifteen minutes like a bus.

512
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: So they commit murder in a heinous fashion over a man.

513
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: Now the man has not been named yet by authorities.

514
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: But I'm looking at a photo right now posted by

515
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: the Elder car the mother, Loretta Ray Carr, aged forty three,

516
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: posing at a national preserve with her then fiance Robert Mitcham.

517
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: Not the actor. He appears to be much younger than her,

518
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: and he has blue hair. Now, is this the guy

519
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: that they were fighting about that they throw a young

520
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: mother off a cliff over him. Is he the one?

521
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: We don't know yet? But I'm looking at this photo

522
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: of the mom car with this young guy, big smile,

523
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: and there, interestingly at a national preserve. Then I'm looking

524
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: at another photo of the mom car wearing the same shirt,

525
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: which indicates to me the same day possibly, and lo

526
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: and behold Savannah sap is Lorette K Carr posting a

527
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: photo to Facebook. She did this to herself. I didn't

528
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: go looking for it. It's right there. And she is

529
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: at the spot where Elizabeth Eastpel's body was found. Hello,

530
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: she's posting a shot of herself. It's a selfie and

531
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: you can see this deep, deep cliff behind her, and

532
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: she posted it on Facebook. Help me? Is this truth

533
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: about us out?

534
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 6: Yes? This is absolutely true. And when I stumbled across

535
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 6: it doing my own investigative work, I just kind of

536
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 6: had a hit in my stomach because even though these

537
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 6: these thoughts were posted in the year twenty nineteen, about

538
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 6: around two years before it's felt disappearance, it still gives

539
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 6: you an eerie, almost disturbed feeling because it's a selfie,

540
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 6: you know, car living her everyday life with you know,

541
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 6: beautiful canyon behind her. But once you know the story

542
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 6: and you know what what she is eventually accused of,

543
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 6: it leaves a really almost creeped out feeling.

544
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: I got a very creeped out feeling, and I'm looking

545
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: at her in this young fiance and it leads me

546
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: to think, now, this is just an educated guest. Everybody

547
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: on the panel and wants you to jump in. It

548
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: leads me to think that Loretta Ray Carr is the

549
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: one involved with a man and she enlists her daughter

550
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: Jesse Eden Kelly h twenty one to kill They quote

551
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: other women. That other woman would be Mary Elizabeth isbel

552
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: Wright because we know a mom and daughter duo are

553
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: now charged with the murder of this young mom. Take

554
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: a listen to Kila Smith WHNT.

555
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 14: We are still working to get information about how investigators

556
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 14: tied the suspect to the death of the victim, Mary

557
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 14: Elizabeth I isbel Here's what we know from a criminal

558
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 14: criminal complaint filed this week. The document shows Loretta Carr

559
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 14: from Fort Payne is charged with capital murder. Jail records

560
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 14: reveal Carr was booked into the Camp County Jail Sunday night.

561
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 14: Carr is accused of abducting isbel in October of twenty

562
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 14: twenty one.

563
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: What exactly would that do to a body? Doctor dupree

564
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: to die by being slung a cliff.

565
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 10: When you're thrown over a cliff, you're going to have

566
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 10: a lot of blunt force injuries, things like obviously broken bones, fractures,

567
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 10: all sorts of things like that, pretty much all over

568
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 10: your body, of course, depending on how far the drop is.

569
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: I'm just imagining this beautiful young mom being murdered in

570
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 2: this heinous fashion. Guys, we're talking about Mary Elizabeth estpell Wright.

571
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: Her mother distraught trying to find her, where's my daughter?

572
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: But the reality is her daughter was long dead, her

573
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: crumpled and broken body at the bottom of a cliff and,

574
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: according to police, pushed over the cliff by a mother

575
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: daughter tag team angry that Estbell was dating their love object,

576
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: one of their love objects. But it's not the first time,

577
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: of course, that this has happened. Take a listen to

578
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:03,479
Speaker 2: hour cut twenty does a name Lisa Noak ring a Bell.

579
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: She was with NASA, an astronaut.

580
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 7: Listen before she drove from Houston to Orlando to intercept me.

581
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 7: She hid her intentions and her whereabouts, I believe for

582
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 7: the weekend.

583
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: From her coworkers.

584
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 7: She chose to drive one thousand mile distance rather than fly,

585
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 7: which ensured no record of her trip. She covered her

586
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 7: tracks by traveling under a fake name, wearing a disguise,

587
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 7: and making minimal stops and using only cash. She brought

588
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 7: with her a myriad of weapons, which one season detective

589
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 7: had called a murder kit. Lisa Iak told police, but

590
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 7: she planned to use the weapons that she brought with

591
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 7: her to force me to sit with her.

592
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 2: To sit with her, that's not exactly what Noak had

593
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: in mind.

594
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 7: To listen, she blasted me with what felt like acid.

595
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 7: It burned my eyes, my nose, in my mouth, and

596
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 7: it sucked the air out of me. I don't know

597
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 7: what other weapons she had at the ready, because I

598
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 7: didn't hang around to find out. I stomped on the

599
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 7: gas and I wondered if there was a gun pointed.

600
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: At my head.

601
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 7: My eyes and throat were on fire, my lungs ached

602
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 7: for I thought the urge to breathe in whatever poison

603
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,959
Speaker 7: it was that she had braved me with. I thought

604
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 7: I had just escaped a car jacking, and I was

605
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 7: sure that she had just tried to kill me to

606
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 7: steal my car. I had no idea that a high ranking,

607
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 7: high paid military officer had just attacked me. I believe

608
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 7: I escaped a horrible death that night.

609
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: You're hearing the victim in that case, Colleen Shipman, giving

610
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: her victim impact statement about the attack made by her

611
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: then boyfriend's former girlfriend. He drives all the way across

612
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: the country to attack Colleen, But she's certainly not the

613
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 2: only one. Does the name Caitlin Armstrong ring abel her

614
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: victim Mariah Wilson. Take a list our cut twenty three,

615
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: Fox seven, Austin.

616
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 15: Caitlyn Armstrong wanted by the US Marshals for the murder

617
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 15: of cyclist Mariah Wilson. Wilson was visiting from California and

618
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 15: staying with a friend. She was in Austin ahead of

619
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 15: a race in Hiko. Core paper say the night of

620
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 15: the murder, Wilson went for a swim at deep Eddie

621
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 15: Pool with Colin Strickland, another cyclist, Then they went to

622
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 15: Poolberger before Strickland dropped her off at her friend's house.

623
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 15: Documents say Strickland and Armstrong were in a relationship before

624
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,959
Speaker 15: briefly ending it for a couple of weeks last year.

625
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 15: At the time he was involved with Wilson.

626
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: So now Mariah Wilson is dead World champ cyclist in

627
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: her twenties, her life and in front of her. Of course

628
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: she's not the only one. Take a list. Now we're

629
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: cut nineteen Fox to Detroit.

630
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 16: Twenty six year old Chinania Williamson saw her baby's father

631
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 16: in a car with another woman. He also got pregnant again.

632
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 16: The two women, according to authorities, are pregnant at the

633
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 16: same time by the same man.

634
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: Her boyfriend or ex the relationship.

635
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 16: Status to somewhat unclear, gets out of the vehicle and

636
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 16: is arguing with Williamson, and that's when she allegedly fires

637
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 16: into the other car, hitting the other pregnant woman in

638
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 16: the leg. But we're told that woman is going to

639
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 16: be okay. She drove herself to the hospital.

640
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: You know, Doctor Bethany Marshall and anybody on the panel

641
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: please jump in. The first of all, murder, but the

642
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 2: mode of murder, pushing Espell Elizabeth Espell off a cliff

643
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: to her death. Did they lure her there? Did they

644
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: force her there? I don't know the answer of that.

645
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 2: But over a man number one, A cheating man, apparently

646
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: because it seems like it was having a relationship with

647
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: two women. It was, But who cares. I'm not the

648
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: church lady. I don't care who's sleeping with who, but

649
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 2: not only to do it, but to enlist your daughter

650
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: or your mom to commit murder and that person going

651
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: along with it. Who are these two minions from hell?

652
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 8: You? Nancy? When I first read or heard that it

653
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 8: was a mother daughter duo, I thought, this has to

654
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 8: be over a man. It has to be over jealousy

655
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 8: of some sort. And I would imagine this mother daughter

656
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 8: duo had a long history applauding and planning against anybody

657
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 8: who interfered with their feelings of importance in the world.

658
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 8: Wasn't there another case where a girl failed to become

659
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 8: a cheerleader and they went after the coach the mother's

660
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 8: daughter a team did I'm trying to remember that story,

661
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 8: but right that was a well known one made into

662
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 8: a film. But jealousy and envy are the strongest emotions

663
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 8: and often negative emotions that a person can face. They

664
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 8: come from very early in life. They're very infantile, and

665
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 8: most crimes are motivated by jealousy or envy. Envy you

666
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 8: have something, I want someone to take it from you.

667
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 8: That's deft jealousy. Somebody I want is interested in you

668
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 8: rather than me, So I'm just gonna snuff you out.

669
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 8: And the way that this mother daughter duo threw Beth

670
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 8: over the cliff, I mean the terror she felt as

671
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 8: she was falling to her death, and that's selfy that

672
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 8: the perfect trader took. I mean, I want the listeners

673
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 8: to try to look it up and see it go

674
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 8: on the crime online website, because it's not just the selfie.

675
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 8: She has her head cocked back so that what's in

676
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 8: the back of the selfie is the precipitous decline of

677
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 8: the cliffs. You can see where Beth fell to her death.

678
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 8: I mean she's really triumphing over the victim there.

679
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: Who is the man they were fighting about? Don't know?

680
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: Were people sleeping around, don't know. But I can tell

681
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: you this much. If my husband, David Lynch, cheats, she

682
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: can have him. I'll send him to you cod cash

683
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 2: on delivery. You're paying the fright lady. I don't want

684
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: him back. I'll find somebody that can be true. So

685
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: far there's been no hint of cheating, but I can

686
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 2: tell you this much. Don't commit murder over a man

687
00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: or a woman. All their lives are altered forever over

688
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 2: what an Alabama woman suspected of pushing a missing mom

689
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: off a cliff to her death and enlisting her daughter

690
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: as a hench person. We waked as just as unfolds. Goodbye, friend,