1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to It Could Happen Here. I 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 2: am once again your occasional host Molly Conger joining me 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: today for a very special episode. Are my friends and 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: yours Scharen and Mia So Sharin Mia. We're here today 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: to honor and reflect upon a very somber and important holiday. 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: It is May fifteenth, as we are recording this today, 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: and today is actually recognized the world over as Knackba Day, 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 2: a day to remember the first Nakba, the founding of 10 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: the state of Israel, and the forest displacement of the 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 2: Palestinian people. And this year, as a new Knakua continues, 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: as the genocide is being committed against the Palestinian people, 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: it's more important than ever to remember that these atrocities 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: did not start last year. But that isn't the memorial 15 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: day I invited you here to talk about. Here in 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: the United States, the holiday officially on the books today 17 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: is not knack Ba Day. It is National Peace Officers 18 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: Memorial Day. In nineteen sixty two, President Kennedy signed a 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: proclamation establishing May this National Peace Officers Memorial Day and 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: the week it falls within as National Police Week. It's 21 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: an entire week to honor and commemorate the brave boys 22 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: in blue who've lost their lives in the line of duty. 23 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 2: And I can't think of a better way to spend 24 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: this afternoon with both of you than to talk about 25 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: how this holiday is celebrated and to share some of 26 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: these incredible stories of courage and sacrifice. So one of 27 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: the most frequently cited sources during Police Week and year 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: round when you're talking about the mortality rate of police 29 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: officers is a website called the Officer Down Memorial Page. 30 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: Highly encourage you to visit it, make an account, browse 31 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: the pages. The website is run by a nonprofit organization 32 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: by the same name and has had tax exempt status 33 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: since two thousand. According to their IRS Form nine nineties, 34 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: the tax form that tax exempt nonprofits have to file annually, 35 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 2: they're pulling in around seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars 36 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: a year, a third of which goes directly toward executive compensation. 37 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: And why why shouldn't someone make a quarter of a 38 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 2: million dollars annually to do such important work? Public records 39 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: show the website's founder, Chris Cosgriff, is a police officer 40 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: himself in Fairfax County, Virginia. Available salary data from twenty 41 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: eighteen shows him making a policeman salary of about sixty 42 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: nine thousand dollars. According to his LinkedIn page, Cosgriff still 43 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: works for the Fairfax County Police Department as a recruiting 44 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: supervisor the officer down memorial page. Tax documents show he 45 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: paid himself a paltry twenty four thousand, five hundred dollars 46 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three as the executive director of the nonprofit, 47 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: though they list key employee compensation at an expense of 48 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars that year, with no 49 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: indication of who's being paid that remaining two hundred and 50 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars or what that person's position is. 51 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 2: When the organization received a thirty thousand dollars PPP loan 52 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, they indicated on their loan documents that 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: there were five employees at the organization. I'm not an accountant, 54 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: so I won't hazard any kind of guesses here, but 55 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: I am having trouble making sense of that twenty twenty 56 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: four nine ninety, which lists five company officers by name 57 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 2: and only Cosgriff is drawing his salary. He paid himself 58 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars that year. So that same document from 59 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: twenty twenty shows that the organization had expenses of two 60 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars for compensation of officers, but it doesn't 61 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: say where that remaining one hundred and fifty thousand dollars went. 62 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 3: Hmmm, I worry. 63 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: Maybe they have a secret employee that they're not counting. 64 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: His son, his wife, his other wife. 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: The website indicates that donations to the nonprofit go towards 66 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: maintaining the website, making posts on their Facebook, maintaining the 67 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: site's companion mobile app, and historic research, claiming that their staff, again, 68 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 2: those five people have uncovered records of over two thousand 69 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: fallen officers that otherwise would have been forgotten to time. 70 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: The site has memorial pages for officers who died as 71 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: far back as seventeen seventy six, so it's as old 72 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: as America. 73 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 4: That's that's not. 74 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: Real, it's not We didn't actually really have what is 75 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: considered modern policing back then. So they're really kind of 76 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: stretching definitions, are they including. 77 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 4: Like people that went after slaves, like you know what 78 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 4: I mean? 79 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yeah. Tax collectors. 80 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: Yes, olive stretching, Yes, a lot. 81 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 4: You want to go that far back, but I mean, 82 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 4: do you. 83 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: Donations also help fund their No Parole for cop Killers program, 84 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: which tracks the cases of the people they call convicted 85 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: cop killers and flood local parole boards with letters advocating 86 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: against release. The donation page claims to have sent out 87 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 2: over ten thousand such letters in the last six months alone. 88 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: They also have a merch page where you can buy 89 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: a lovely trio of thin blue line Christmas ornaments in 90 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: a gift box for the low reasonable price of sixty dollars. 91 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 4: Jesus, out of all the things I thought you were 92 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 4: going to say, I did not think you were going 93 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 4: to say, Christmas ornaments. 94 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, beautiful, beautiful memorial ornaments. You can get them customized. 95 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 5: Wow. 96 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 2: The site list information about American law enforcement officers, prison employees, 97 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: and police dogs who have lost their lives in the 98 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: line of duty. Kind of see. While the website is 99 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: the source cited in every local news puff piece when 100 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: May fifteenth rolls around every year, putting their version of 101 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: the numbers in the headlines, the organization's stats don't match 102 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: those in the FBI's annual report on the subject an 103 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: official annual report called the Law Enforcement Officers Killed and 104 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: Assaulted or LEOCA Report. The data used by the FBI 105 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: is collected as part of the uniform Crime Reporting system, 106 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 2: and if you take just a minute to look at 107 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: the Officer down Memorial page's annual data, the reason for 108 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: this mismatch is immediately clear. They're padding their numbers by 109 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: including deaths by natural causes on duty, deaths due to 110 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: accidents or incidents unrelated to the officer's duties, and they're 111 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: including law enforcement adjacent personnel that the FBI does not 112 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: consider to be law enforcement deaths in their reporting. The 113 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: FBI's LEOCA report has really clear criteria for inclusion. To 114 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: be considered a law enforcement line of duty death, the 115 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: must have been a duly sworn law enforcement officer acting 116 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: in their official capacity at the time of their death, 117 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: So they have to be a real cop, somebody who 118 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: carries a badge and a gun and has full arrest powers. 119 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: And the FBI specifically excludes death binatural causes like heart 120 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: attacks or COVID deesth the occurred on duty, but quote 121 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: attributed to their own personal situation, such as domestic violence, 122 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: neighbor conflict, et cetera, which like that they have to 123 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: list that by name. If you died doing a domestic 124 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 2: violence in uniform, that doesn't count. How often is that happening? 125 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope people who killed them are getting parole, like. 126 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: Good God, right, Like if your wife kills you while 127 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 2: you're beating her, but you're on the clock, the FBI says, no, dice. 128 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: They also specifically note that they do not include corrections officers, 129 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: Bureau of Prisons officers, bailiffs, judges, probation and parole officers, 130 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: or US attorneys and assistant US attorneys. So just cops, 131 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: not the people who sort of work in the industry 132 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: around them but are not. 133 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 4: Cops, not people that basically are cops, like actual cops, 134 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 4: you know, and actual cops. 135 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the FA is really aware clearly that the 136 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: numbers on the ODMP get cited more often than their own, 137 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: because the FBI's Crime Data Explorer page offers this weasly 138 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: little caveat quote. The FBI's LEOCA program is one of 139 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: a number of entities that report information concerning line of 140 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: duty debts and or assaults of law enforcement officers in 141 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: the United States. Each organization has its own purpose and 142 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: may use different methods to collect and report information, or 143 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 2: focus on somewhat different aspects of these important topics. Therefore, 144 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: care should be taken not to compare LEOCA data to 145 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: data provided by other entities, such as the Officer down 146 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: Memorial page. So they're specifically saying, we know these numbers 147 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: don't match. We know these numbers don't match because a 148 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: few years ago we gave them a few hundred thousand 149 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: dollars in grant money to make numbers that are fake. 150 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 3: Wow. Incredible Wow. 151 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: So the ODMP is patting out their numbers with off 152 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: duty accidents, prison guards, parking lot, heart attacks, and COVID deaths. 153 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: The database includes nearly nine hundred COVID deaths, causing massive 154 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: statistical anomalies in their twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, and 155 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two data, they include officers who died of 156 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: natural causes years after sustaining minor on the job injuries, which, 157 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: you know, if you're involved in a civil lawsuit after 158 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: the death of a loved one, you could maybe argue 159 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: that this was sort of a you know, a downhill 160 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: kind of thing if you're trying to getting a settlement 161 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: from the state. Maybe you could say that, you know, 162 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: the injury sustained contributed to the death, but that's you 163 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: can't tell me that slipping in the parking lot and 164 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: then dying six years later is an experience unique to 165 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: the dangers of law enforcement. A district attorney who flipped 166 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: his car after hitting a log that fell off a 167 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: truck on the highway on a Friday night is not 168 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: a law enforcement line of duty death because that not 169 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: only was that not a cop it was a single 170 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: car accident. And when DeSoto County Search and Rescue Director 171 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: Deputy William Nichols went on a beach vacation and took 172 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: his family into the ocean despite red flag riptide hazard 173 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: condition warnings, he lost his life trying to rescue his son. 174 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: And that's very sad, But drowning on vacation is not 175 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: a line of duty death. When Indiana Department of Natural 176 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: Resources Sergeant Ed Bowman and his friend drowned in the 177 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: middle of a frozen lake while ice fishing, that wasn't 178 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: a line of duty death. It's just a sad accident 179 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: while dudes were hanging out. 180 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: These people they really, they really should have a bad 181 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: time around water float. 182 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: There is a shocking number of drowning deaths where the 183 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 2: cop just like the second his feet caught when he 184 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: just disappeared. Don't get them wet. It's not a gremlin situation. 185 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 4: Include swimming in the cop test, right, I don't know. 186 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: I mean, these people barely know how to point their guns, like, 187 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: expecting them to be able to swim is the standards 188 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: or that that's a bit too high of a standard 189 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: for them. 190 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: Wan to be fair, most of these deaths are single 191 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: car accidents. One guy died after t boning a school bus. 192 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: The children were fine. 193 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: The children, Oh, thank god, Okay, thank god. 194 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: Oh and so, rather than a detailed statistical analysis relying 195 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: on uniformly reported official data, the ODMP relies on user 196 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: submitted content. So people are submitting things and then Wikipedia. Yeah, 197 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 2: Wikipedia for bootleggers, no, no thanks. But when National Police 198 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: Week rolls around, it's their inflated numbers in every infographic, 199 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: not the FBI's methodologically consistent data. And if I'm being generous, 200 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: you know you could write that off on the ease 201 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 2: of access to the data on ODMP. It's very user friendly. 202 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: It shows you a little picture and a bio of 203 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 2: each officer. It's very easy to use. You can search 204 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: by year, agency, cause of death, state, or an officer's name. 205 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: It's not a wall of small text with little data 206 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: tables and links to zip files of more data tables. 207 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 2: The FBI's report is ugly, and it's uncompelling, and it's 208 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: sort of overwhelming to navigate if that's not something you 209 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: are interested in doing, so I don't want to be 210 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: too hard on the twenty two year old news anchors 211 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: scrambling to put something on the screen at six o'clock. 212 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: The officer down memorial page makes it a matter of 213 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: a few easy clicks for your local news anchor to 214 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: find a handful of local interest stories to run on 215 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: May fifteenth. But the people who run the website know 216 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: exactly what they're doing, and it's an intentional ideological project 217 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: to perpetuate the myth of the courageous, noble policeman doing 218 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 2: America's most dangerous and thankless job, a job that is 219 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 2: uniquely and outlandishly perilous, standing apart from any other profession, 220 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: and that that's not true. That's not true. And for 221 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 2: this I take you to another government agency's annual reports, 222 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: the Bureau of Labor Statistics. 223 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: Oh, I love this report. This is the best one. 224 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: The Bureau of Labor Statistics has consistently reported, I'm talking, 225 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: you know, for the last thirty years, consistently since the nineties, 226 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: a fatal workplace injury rate for police officers of around 227 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: fourteen per one hundred thousand full time equivalent employees. You know, 228 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: it varies year to year, but it's consistently a little 229 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 2: under fourteen per hundred thousand. And of course, yes, that 230 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: is higher than the national average for all labor categories. 231 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: So for all workers in the US, the workplace fatality 232 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: rate is about three point seven per hundred thousand. So 233 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: the cops are dying at a rate of four times 234 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 2: higher than the average worker. And of course it's more 235 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: dangerous if your job requires driving all day most of 236 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: these cops die in car accidents, or if your job 237 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: involves mishandling a firearm every day. Of course it's more 238 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: dangerous to do that than it is to do data 239 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 2: entry or be a cashier. I mean, obviously we do 240 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: not have a high mortality rate for the average desk job. 241 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 2: But while it is more dangerous than being a receptionist, 242 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: policing doesn't even crack the top ten for most dangerous professions. 243 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: Loggers are seven times more likely to die on the job. 244 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: Roofers are more than four times more likely than a 245 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: cop to die due to a workplace incident. Being a 246 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: fisherman is more than three and a half times more 247 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: dangerous than being a cop. General construction work is more 248 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: than three times more dangerous than police work. Delivery drivers 249 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: are more than twice as likely to die at work 250 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 2: than a cop. It is more dangerous to be a 251 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: day laborer on a farm picking fruit or to drive 252 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 2: a garbage truck. Being a cop has a similar level 253 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: of risk of death by workplace incident as being a groundskeeper, 254 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: So it is about as safe as being the guy 255 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: that cuts the grass at the park. 256 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think there's a real issue with a 257 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 3: labor reporting for like the category of farm worker, because 258 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 3: whenever you see data that says like farm worker, that 259 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 3: can either mean someone who's actually a farm worker, or 260 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: it can mean like a guy who sits in an 261 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 3: air conditioned office every day. And even the buer of 262 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: labor sistics is not very good at actually sifting those 263 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: out because there's been a sustained effort by like farm 264 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: owners to make sure this data is like as non 265 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 3: transparent as possible. So I am I will say, I 266 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 3: am fairly confident. I cannot say this is nasty effect. 267 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: I am confident that farming is actually significantly more dangerous 268 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: than the real Labor Statistics says, so like it is 269 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: so much more dangerous to like pick your food that 270 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 3: it is to be a cop. 271 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 2: And because I think for a lot of industries there 272 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: is a lot of incentive to under report workplace accidents, 273 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 2: I think policing is one of the only industries where 274 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: they are incentivized to over report accidents. Right, So the 275 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: data is I mean, even for as skewed as the 276 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: data may be at the point of entry, it's still 277 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: a lot safer to be a cop than it is 278 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: to drive a truck. 279 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 4: And this is with the numbers of them like falling 280 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 4: into a puddle. 281 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 3: Right. 282 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: Well, so I think the buera of labor statistics is 283 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: probably using something closer to the FBI numbers, okay, which 284 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: is still I mean, you know, on the. 285 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 3: Other hand, cops are the biggest babies about this in 286 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: the entire world because. 287 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: They get paid leave. If every time you had a 288 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: booboo at work. You could just go home for a week, 289 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: you'd do it too. 290 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. But also, I mean, just like in the media, 291 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: it's like these people never shut up about how dangerous 292 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 3: their job is, and it's like your job is more 293 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: safe than like most of the actual hard jobs people work, 294 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 3: like please shut up? Oh my god. 295 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: And the one thing that all those jobs have in common, 296 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: aside from requiring you to be braver, smarter, and stronger 297 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: than a cop, they don't typically come with platinum level healthcare, 298 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: paid leave for minor booboos, state subsidized life insurance, a pension, 299 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: a discount at the coffee shop, and a license to kill. 300 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: You know what else has a license to kill? 301 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: Okay, I was gonna say, but before we get into 302 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: really honoring our boys on this special day, I think 303 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: we should take a quick ad break that is hopefully 304 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: not an ad for the Washington State Patrol. Okay, And 305 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: with all that background out of the way, would you 306 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 2: care to join me in commemorating some of the officers 307 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: our nation is honoring this National Police Week. 308 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 4: This is what I came here for. 309 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, so excited. 310 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 2: Now, before we get into the handful I picked out 311 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: for us today, I want to be really clear for 312 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: the boys over at the officer down memorial page, because 313 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: their website specifically prohibits the use of their content for 314 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: commercial purposes. So I will say I found these names 315 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: on their website, but I don't trust their methodology enough 316 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: to take their content at face value, so I wouldn't 317 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: use it as a source anyway, even if I were 318 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: allowed to do that. So for each of these vignettes, 319 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: I pulled original contemporaneous local reporting on the incidents, and 320 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: in some cases, actual court records, so you can't get me. 321 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: In twenty ten, Saint Joseph, Missouri police officer Dan Dacry 322 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: was participating in a training exercise. During a break, he 323 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: and another officer put down the training weapons they've been using, 324 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: which were loaded with something called simmunition, so simulated ammunition. 325 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: It's not real bullets, it's a plastic, non lethal object 326 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: that goes in the gun. Before leaving the training facility, 327 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: which was a recently closed elementary school, to walk to 328 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: a nearby convenience store to get a soda, the officers 329 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: put down their training weapons and holstered their duty weapons, 330 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: so to walk down the street to get to the 331 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: seven eleven they needed their real guns. So they put 332 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 2: their real guns back on in case they encountered any 333 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: emergency situations. Yeah, in case, you know, in case they 334 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: saw it. We'll get to a dog. So they holstered 335 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 2: their duty weapons. Upon returning after their break, drinks in hand, 336 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: Officer to Cry asked his colleague, officer Jason Strong, to 337 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: shoot him with a simmunition round because he wanted to 338 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 2: know what it would feel like. 339 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, that's just a beautiful desire, you know, 340 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 5: just curious. He's just curious, you know, a good day 341 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 5: would be curious. And so Officer Strong drew his weapon 342 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 5: and shot Officer to Cry in the back. I guess 343 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 5: they both forgot that they put their real guns back 344 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 5: on and not their training weapons. So I don't know 345 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 5: if you ever probably know this, but the if it's 346 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 5: not a real gun, if it has fake bullets in it, 347 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 5: if it is a training object, it has an orange tip. 348 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 4: I was going to ask that. I was going to ask, 349 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 4: you can't look identical to a real gun. 350 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: They're easily visually distinguishable for an important reason. And I 351 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: guess he didn't look so he pulled it out and 352 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: shot him in the back, and the officer Decry died 353 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: later that day. 354 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: Wow incredible. 355 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 2: Later reporting on the incident indicates the department did say 356 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 2: they were going to revise some of their policies regarding 357 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: standard procedure for checking weapons in and out at training exercises. 358 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: So you have to check your weapon in when you 359 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: get your toy gun, and then you check it back out. 360 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 2: They did not do that previously, but they revised those 361 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: procedures and declined to comment further. The officer who killed 362 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: Dan Decry was not charged and remained with the department. 363 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: Officer Deacraie's family received a settlement of three hundred and 364 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 2: seventy six thousand dollars from the City of Saint Joseph. Again, 365 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: settlement money does not come from police departments. It comes 366 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: from the municipality. It comes from just the taxpayers. It 367 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: does not affect the police's budget to do this. 368 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 4: That enrages me. 369 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: You know, to give to give credit to that guy 370 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 3: though actually hitting your cop hitting their target on the 371 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 3: first shot is pretty remarkable. That that is a shooting 372 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: the guy in the back on the first tries a 373 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 3: pretty remarkable feet of cop marksmanship, so he might have 374 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 3: been maying for his knee though that's true. We don't 375 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: know he was hitting for the back. 376 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: It's just remarkable. I just want to know what it 377 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: would feel like. 378 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 4: I wonder how close he was too. He must have 379 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 4: been close. 380 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine there was sort of a conversational distance. 381 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 4: That's insane. That is just I cannot well, wow, well. 382 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 2: Well, our next story of a cop who should not 383 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: have gotten wet, it is not actually even about a cop. 384 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 2: In two thousand and seven, David Polling d in the 385 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: Ohio River Polling, who's thirty two at the time, had 386 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: previously been employed as a police officer with the Gallipolas 387 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: Police Department and at a different time as a sheriff's 388 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 2: deputy with the Galia County Sheriff's Office. So by thirty two, 389 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: he's been both a police officer and a sheriff's deputy, 390 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 2: but he is neither of those things anymore. In two 391 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 2: thousand and seven, he was working as a parole officer. 392 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: In the reporting from the time, it's not actually clear 393 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: why he was present, but he was nearby when a 394 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: police officer stopped a pedestrian on the sidewalk and firsked 395 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: him because he suspected this man may have just come 396 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: out of the house where he believed drug deals were 397 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 2: being conducted. So he's doing a stop and frisk on 398 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: a guy mined in his business. The man was not 399 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 2: charged with a drug offense when this was all over, 400 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 2: so I guess they didn't find drugs. But during the encounter, 401 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: the man bolted and Polling, who again had a cop 402 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: just a guy who's nearby, chased after him. The man 403 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 2: jumped into the Ohio River, and Polling jumped in after him. 404 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: The suspect, Joseph Hair, made it quickly to a small 405 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: island in the middle of the river, but pulling immediately 406 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: after hitting the water, sank and disappeared. 407 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 3: No, he did not. 408 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: It took hours for divers to recover his body. 409 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 4: When you said they didn't float, that wasn't a joke. 410 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: No, he just disappeared like the second the water he 411 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 2: was just gone. 412 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 4: That is its comical. I can't believe that's real. 413 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 2: Like did he did he know? He couldn't swim, like he. 414 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 4: Just sucked down to the bar. 415 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 3: It's it's so good too, because it's like, you know, 416 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 3: you could attribute this to just purely like the first 417 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 3: story of a drowning where it's like Okay, the cop 418 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 3: clearly went into a situation he shouldn't have been in 419 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 3: because he's a cop and doesn't think about, oh wait, 420 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 3: the ways you get to kill me. But like, no, 421 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 3: clearly this river was symable, the other guy made it. 422 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: The other guy was fine. Well, the other guy was 423 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: fine until they charged him with manslaughter and he did 424 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: four years in jail. 425 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 4: Oh but wait, this is the guy that didn't have 426 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 4: was in charge with drugs but was charged with man. 427 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: Kind of manslaughter because the other guy jumped in. 428 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 4: Wait for manslaughter for the cop that sunk. 429 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, wow, But like some guy who's not even 430 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: a cop is just chasing you. That's kind of on him. Yeah, 431 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: he was convicted of manslaughter. 432 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 4: That is I hate that. But also can you just 433 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 4: to imagine just this cop like Mario jumping into like 434 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 4: a river and just completely just like like the video 435 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 4: game sound and he at the bottom, And. 436 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 2: You do have to wonder how he had worked for 437 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 2: two different police agencies and then didn't work for either 438 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 2: of any more by the age of thirty two. 439 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: I did. 440 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: I did a little looking. I couldn't find anything about that, 441 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: but it's it's an unusual career trajectory. 442 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's like he's getting bounced down to lower 443 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: leagues every time. It's like, are you that it's you're 444 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: a like, it's how do you screw that? Up? 445 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 5: Right? 446 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 2: It would seem that he wasn't a cop anymore because 447 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 2: he wasn't allowed to be a copy. Yeah, and now 448 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 2: this third one is the one that I had in 449 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: mind when I first started writing this episode, and it's 450 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: really just, on its surface, kind of the perfect encapsulation 451 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: of this foolish project. Right. It's got a guy getting 452 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: shot in the crotch, it's got a cop trying to 453 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: kill a dog. It's got a dirty cop. It's got 454 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: a cop staying on the force after a string of 455 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 2: expensive mishaps. This is just policing. But when I started 456 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: looking for primary sources about this incident, actually just kept 457 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 2: getting weirder. And now I'm kind of down a new 458 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: rabbit hole of got some requests out for more documents, 459 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: Like I'm gonna figure this out. Something happened here. But 460 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: before I tell you about Officer Henry Macalene and Junior, 461 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: we'll take another quick ad break, all right. I hope 462 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: he used that ad break time. Not only did about 463 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 2: products and services, but to reflect on the sacrifice of 464 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 2: the parole officer who drowned in the Ohio River. On 465 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: August twenty first, two thousand, Miami Dade Police officers Henry 466 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 2: Macalene and Junior and his partner Itala Elias responded to 467 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: a request from a home alarm company to check out 468 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: what turned out to be a false alarm at a 469 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 2: residential home in southwest Miami. Arriving on the scene, they 470 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: found no sign of a break in, nothing unusual, and 471 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 2: no one answered the front door. Normally a cop would 472 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: probably just leave. They don't really like working. They don't 473 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 2: really like doing their jobs. It's hard and it's boring, 474 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: and they have candy crush to play Molly. 475 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 4: It's dangerous. It's dangerous. 476 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: It was a weekday, afternoon in a nice neighborhood in Miami, 477 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 2: but the home belonged to a retired Miami Police detective, 478 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: so they took you know, they did the extra mile. So, 479 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: after determining there was no sign of the breaking out front, 480 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: no one answered the door, they went around the back 481 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: of the house and entered the backyard, where two rottweilers 482 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 2: quote came running at them. According to a South Florida 483 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 2: Sun article that week, Machaelinn pulled out his expandable baton 484 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 2: and began beating the dogs. Well, they were really just 485 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: doing their job in their own backyard. 486 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like. 487 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 3: That that's the noble thing that happens when you walk 488 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: towards a dog. Is it runs towards. 489 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 4: You're invading its territory. You shouldn't be there. 490 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: You gotta figure a guy who has a home alarm 491 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: system and two rottweilers like that is that dog's job? 492 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I keep thinking about that. Uh that 493 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 3: picture of Mike Bloomberg when he was running in twenty twenty. 494 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 3: They were like he just grabs the dog's face. 495 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, where It's like there's. 496 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: Just something like on a fundamental level, like we co 497 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 3: evolved with this animal, and like if you like cannot 498 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 3: do the basic this is a dog and your response 499 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: is like I'm gonna grab his face, or your response 500 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: is I Am going to beat this dog up with 501 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 3: a baton, like you have somehow fundamentally failed at like 502 00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 3: the process of being human. 503 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 2: And also like if the dogs are immediately reacting to 504 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: your presence in the yard and they were not previously 505 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: reacting to anything. Maybe you could assume there was no 506 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 2: break in. Maybe you could assume the dogs have it 507 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 2: covered and you maybe don't break into the yard. But 508 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 2: our boy, Henry, he's beating these dogs with a stick, 509 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 2: and I guess maybe he was struggling, so his partner, 510 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 2: Officer Elias, drew her service weapon and attempted to shoot 511 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 2: the dogs as he is beating them. 512 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 4: Wow. 513 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 2: Now, we talked before about some problems with aiming, right, 514 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: Cops don't have great marksmanship when you're talking about a 515 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: little complicated physical situation. Right, they're sort of entangled. The 516 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: dogs are small, the man is big. She shot him 517 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: in the dick. So he's beating these dogs. She shoots 518 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: him in the groin. It doesn't say what happened to 519 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 2: the dogs, but it doesn't indicate she fired her service 520 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 2: weapon multiple times, so maybe she just shot him and 521 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: then put it up. He was airlifted to the hospital 522 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 2: to undergo emergency groin surgery, and he did survive. 523 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 5: Oh. 524 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: Officer Mackleenen continued to serve with the Miami Dade Police 525 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 2: Department for another sixteen years, and he was still with 526 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 2: the department when he passed away in twenty sixteen. At 527 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 2: the age of sixty six. His own obituary does not 528 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 2: list a cause of death, only that his wife was 529 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: at his bedside for thirty six days before he passed. 530 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: The first mention of Mackleenan's passing being a line of 531 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 2: duty death is in a National Police Week local news 532 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: piece the following year, which lists his cause of death 533 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: as accidental gunfire. A year later, in twenty eighteen, a 534 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: Police Week story indicates that he was quote killed by 535 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 2: gunfire on the date that he died in twenty sixteen. 536 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: It's not until years later that you start to see 537 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 2: claims that his cause of death was due to complications 538 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 2: from the sixteen year old wound. So it's not clear 539 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 2: where that claim even originated. But he did die sixteen 540 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 2: years after being shot, and during those intervening sixteen years 541 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: he was well enough to continue to serve on the force. 542 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 4: I mean, if you know, if the family went with 543 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 4: that lie, maybe they got money out of it. 544 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 3: I don't know. 545 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 2: I guess it's possible. 546 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, there was what other motive is there 547 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 4: other than I don't know. 548 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: I see an indication that there was a wrongful death 549 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: lawsuit after he died. He did file a civil lawsuit 550 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,479 Speaker 2: in two thousand and four against the homeowner retired Miami 551 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 2: detective Heyesu's caames, but that was dismissed and he didn't 552 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 2: even recover attorney's fees. He didn't get anything out of that. 553 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 3: Wait, so he tried. So he started beating two dogs 554 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 3: with the baton, and his partner shot him in the balls. 555 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 3: Tried to hit the dog, and he tried to sue 556 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 3: the guy whose house you broke into. I mean, this 557 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 3: is incredible. 558 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: If the guy, if the homeowner, hadn't been a retired 559 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: potentially dirty cop. I found some articles in the eighties 560 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: alleging that this so not alleging in the in the eighties, 561 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: this officer Haes Whu's Karamas, who is deceased now, but 562 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 2: was suspended briefly during an investigation into a ring of 563 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: Miami officers who were trafficking cocaine. Of course, I don't 564 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: know how that turned out. Well, I mean probably it 565 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: went fine, like well, yeah, he didn't get fired because 566 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: he was still on a force in nineteen ninety seven 567 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: when he shot a guy during a traffic stop. Wow, 568 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 2: but no, his his lawsuit against the homeowner, the alarm company, 569 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: and the woman who shot him. The cop did not succeed. 570 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 2: Did not succeed. 571 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 4: I mean, at least there's that he loved being a 572 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 4: cop so much getting his or did I say Crosser cop? 573 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 4: He loved being a cop so much as Crosser shot 574 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: off and that didn't stop him. I didn't stop him. 575 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 2: I do have a request into the court clerk in 576 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 2: Miami to see if I can so. The documents are 577 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: so old that they're not all uploaded on the court website, 578 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: but I would like to see the original civil complaint 579 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 2: because maybe it goes into more detail about or the 580 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: severity of his injuries and the ways in which that 581 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: he truly suffered from this. Maybe that'll give us some 582 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: more insight into how it killed him sixteen years later. 583 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: So hopefully hopefully the clerk in Miami gets back to 584 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: me with that, because I do want to know what 585 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 2: happened to the dogs. 586 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's all I really care about there now. 587 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: The officer who shot Macleena in the crotch, Etala Elias, 588 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 2: had been on the force for about five years at 589 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: the time of the incident. In that time, she had 590 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: wrecked her patrol car six times wow, injured her hand 591 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,959 Speaker 2: slamming it in a car door, and racked up fifty 592 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: thousand dollars in workman's comp and medical expense reimbursement after 593 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 2: falling off a bicycle during a training exercise. Oh As 594 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, Ittala Elias is still an officer 595 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: with the Miami Dade Police Department, earning one hundred and 596 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: eight thousand dollars a year. 597 00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 4: Wow, that's just I mean, I wonder how many more 598 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 4: car accidents she's she's been in if that was her 599 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 4: record in five years. Wow, that's uh impressive. 600 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 3: Like I am trying to think of another job that 601 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 3: you could keep after crashing your car six times on 602 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 3: the deb I'm shooting someone in the dick, yeah, jod cops, Wow, cops. 603 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: Cops have the kind of job security that was previously 604 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 3: reserved for like workers in the state owned industries in 605 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 3: Maoist China. Like no one else has ever had this 606 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 3: kind of job security before. 607 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 2: And so I will end our stories here because Sophie 608 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 2: will put one of us in the pit if the 609 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: episodes keep coming out over an hour long. But there 610 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: are an unbelievable number of stories of cops getting hurt 611 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: doing shit they were not supposed to be doing. A 612 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 2: cop who died because he didn't know which antibiotics he 613 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: was allergic to when he went to the hospital because 614 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: he was messing around with an injured feral cat and 615 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: got scratched the fuck. A prison guard who tripped in 616 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: the wreckyard and hit his head. A shocking number of 617 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: accidents at the shooting range or during training exercises. 618 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 4: Thease want know what it felt like. They just want 619 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 4: to know what it felt like. 620 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: Including one very weird one where they were role playing 621 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: a scenario. And so there these were cops in the 622 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: Gaming Commission, so casino cops, but during a training exercises, 623 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: during a training exercise, they were role playing a scenario 624 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: where one of the cops was being attacked by an 625 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 2: assailant and he was supposed to, you know, roleplay it 626 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: out right. They're pretending this is pretend they're in a 627 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: conference room. But he got scared and drew his real 628 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: gun and really shot and really killed the director of 629 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 2: the Mississippi Gaming Commission. Almost every cop death was completely preventable. 630 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: They're careless and they're reckless, and they're doing shit they 631 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 2: should not be doing. They're counting normal wear and tear 632 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 2: like knee injuries and heart attacks, as though these are 633 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: noble deaths of martyrs. And it's all part of this 634 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 2: ideological product of myth making around American policing, right, because 635 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: you have to believe that this is a uniquely dangerous 636 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: and frightening job that only the bravest boys can do. 637 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 2: Because they're under so much risk, they have to react 638 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 2: the way that they do. They have to react with 639 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: extreme violence. They have to shoot first and ask questions 640 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: later because their job is just so dangerous, right, And 641 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: I think it's it's interesting as we drove to a 642 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: close to draw a comparison here, right, because they react 643 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 2: with great violence against us because of their fear of 644 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: imaginary violence that they might face. So the FBI prepares 645 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: this meticulous report every year with rigorous and mandatory data 646 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: collection processes, so we have a comprehensive set of data 647 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 2: about not just every cop who dies, but every cop 648 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: who is assaulted on the job. The LEOCA report includes 649 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 2: on the job assaults and injuries, so we have a 650 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: very clear idea of how much violence and how many 651 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 2: accidents cops are exposed to, mostly in the form of 652 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: single car accidents, but we have the data. There is 653 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: no equivalent data for the kinds of violence police perpetrate 654 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 2: on others. The FBI only started collecting information for the 655 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 2: National Use of Force Database in twenty nineteen, and participation 656 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 2: in that data collection process remains optional. Police yeah, three 657 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 2: years ago, four. 658 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 4: Year it is. 659 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: That was prevoluntary. It's voluntary, so police departments do not 660 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: have to tell anyone. They do not have to tell 661 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 2: the federal government when they kill someone, they don't have 662 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: to report that. So comprehensive data on police killings is 663 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 2: something that only exists when newsrooms and nonprofits scrape the 664 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 2: information together on their own. The Washington Post has a 665 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 2: very thorough police shooting database, and nonprofit websites like Mapping 666 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: Police Violence do their best to document each case, but 667 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: even they admit they aren't capturing every fatal encounter with police. 668 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: So while the FBI reports literally just a few days, 669 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 2: officers a year fall into the feloniously killed category in 670 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: the Lioga report, so not the car accident one. So 671 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: there's a few dozen actual killings of officers a year. 672 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 2: We can only hope to know the names of the 673 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 2: average of over twelve hundred people who are killed each 674 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 2: year by a cop, and that does kind of send 675 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 2: a message about whose lives matter. So as you celebrate 676 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 2: National Police Week this week, I guess you'll be hearing 677 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 2: this on Friday if you listen to it the day 678 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 2: it comes out, just take a moment to remember our 679 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 2: brave boys like Lonnie Burton, who tripped on a curb 680 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 2: outside of the Wayland Baptist University Police station and later 681 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 2: died of complications, or brave officers like Trooper Jack Holland 682 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 2: who died because he was allergic to yellowjackets, or officers 683 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 2: like Deputy Sheriff Joseph Baka who was trying to tackle 684 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 2: a suspect to the ground and fell into a bee's nest. 685 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 2: It turns out he was allergic to bees. It's beautiful. Yeah, 686 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 2: I should have I should have asked you both your 687 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 2: hometown so I could get you a local boy, because 688 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 2: one of my favorites is patrolman Billy Toot. Billy Toot. 689 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 2: He was a jailer in Richmond who died when two 690 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 2: inmates were trying to escape after they obtained pistols that 691 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 2: were smuggled into the jail inside of a baked turkey. 692 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 2: That just sounds like a cartoon. 693 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 3: Hell not how it worked for them? 694 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it it was in nineteen thirty four. I 695 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: don't think you would put guns inside of a turkey anymore. 696 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 2: I just have a whole turkey. 697 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 4: A security detector or something. 698 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,760 Speaker 2: But yes, And I hope you're all having a safe 699 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 2: and healthy police week and that you celebrate that by 700 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 2: not encountering any policeman. It could happen here as a 701 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 2: production of cool Zone Media. 702 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 703 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 704 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 705 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at 706 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.