WEBVTT - US Inflation Cools, Spending Stagnates 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.920 We're gonna stick Matt and myself with the markets, kind 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.960 of continue the conversation that we just started off with 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.760 Scarlett and rom Maine. We do have the FEDS preferred 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.320 measure of US inflation cooling. In May, consumer spending stagnated, 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.640 so justin the economy's main engine is starting to lose 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.760 a momentum. Meantime, Euro Area core inflation reaccelerated in June. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.120 That's a setback for the ECB. And you've got the 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.360 latest PMI numbers out of China showing that economy's growth 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.279 momentum slowing further. It's a lot of moving parts globally. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.360 So to our eco chat, we go Bloomberg News International 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.840 Economics and Policy correspondent Michael McKee on the phone in 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.000 New York City and then on zoom in New York City. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.200 Apollo Global Management Chief economist and partner Torston. It's not 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.600 great to have you two gents here with us might 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.039 kick it off with us. Though when you look at 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.880 the numbers good inflation data, we consumer spending data. I 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.160 don't know what's the really important points here today. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.640 Well, I think the shocking news is that when you 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.160 raise interest rates, the economy slows. As inflation starts to 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.360 go down. The fan is having an effect. We saw 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.560 personal spending rise just a tenth of eighty percent in 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.120 the month of May. We've seen some weakness in there, 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.720 and we saw reasonably good news. Put it that way. 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:41.920 On the PCE inflation numbers. The headline number in particular 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.600 up only a tent The core was of three tenths, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.400 so there's still room to go. But we're starting to 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:53.920 see some progress be made and that's reflected in the 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.240 numbers that got later in the data. Sentiment numbers. We're 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.640 all up for the University of Michigan, so people are 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.400 feeling a little bit better about the economy. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.840 Torson, let me bring you in here and also tell 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.840 you I have actually created a slock button on my 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.959 Bloomberg terminal, so I can hit it at any time 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.000 and pull up the charts that you send me. They're 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.919 really invaluable, so I want to just express my thanks 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.600 for that. How do you see the FED right now, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.240 because it seems to me that everybody we talk to, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.080 and I'm going to sound like a broken record, but 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.520 they don't believe that Powell is going to hike two 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.240 more times. And especially when we see PCE coming down, 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:38.359 you mish expectations going out one year coming down pretty significantly. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.679 It doesn't seem that the Fed is necessarily going to 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:41.640 have a reason to hike. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:43.920 No, you're absolutely right. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.200 I mean the issue is that the market is certainly 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.280 of the belief that if it will not do much more. 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.640 Strictly speaking, fit fund futures is still pricing one more 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:57.000 hike in July. But I think the data today and 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.919 to what Mike just said, I mean four point six 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.440 year of a year on COPSE. We were also at 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.079 four point six in December, So, as j Powell highlighted 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.359 at the last press conference, they have not made progress 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:12.720 as getting inflation. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.519 Down towards two percent. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.840 I completely understand there's a lot of issues and debates 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.480 about what's happening to the shelter, the housing and component 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.960 of inflation that may roll off a little bit. But 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.360 now with housing recovering. Well, we may then see some 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.639 reversion later on. So I think that the FED would 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.640 look at coinflation with important part for them and say, well, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.800 if that's at roughly five or four point six and 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.640 that's where it was six months ago, we just cannot 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.440 stop hiking rates, and we at least need to keep 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.120 rates at these levels, as he said. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:42.880 At the press conference, for a couple of years. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.480 So the bottom line, Matt, to your point is that, yes, 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.800 I understand headline is coming down. You miss short term 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.000 also what's coming down. But the coinflation is not really 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.280 making much progress at this point. It is still moving sideways, 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.160 and I think the fedness telling us that we need 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:58.520 all to take that more seriously. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.320 But ken can inflation continue to rise when A, I 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:06.560 mean consumer expectations are down. B. There's a lot of 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.960 talk about household excess savings being gone. I mean, you 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.360 sent me the FED paper from last week that showed 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.599 they think there are no more excess savings in this system. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.320 And if we start to lose some jobs, people aren't 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.560 gonna have the money to spend to support inflation. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.680 Certainly, but as you know, none of that really has 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.200 happened at this point. We're still looking at If I 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.840 look at my Bloomberg terminal and look at what expectations out, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.720 so non farm payroll next week is two hundred and 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.840 twenty five thousand, that's not a bad number. So if 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:37.359 that's the case the Fed, we'll look at that and 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:38.839 say we've got thirty nine. 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.560 Thousand jobs traded in April. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:42.800 If we get two hundred and twenty five thousand in 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.440 the month of I'm sorry, the month of June, then 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.640 of course the conclusion would be that the economy is 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.039 just not slowing down as quickly as they would like. 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.480 And with that backdrop, it makes sense that their remain hookers. 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.080 I completely agree that once the label mark starts cracking, 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.640 that meaning falling apart, and we see the un empliner 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.159 rate going up, then they we'll probably change the tone 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.960 and talk about the other side of the dual mandate, 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:04.200 maybe the labor market. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:05.680 But that's not where we are at the moment. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.160 So it makes complete sense also in CenTra earlier this 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.520 week that they keep on being holkersh. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.279 I want to bring Mike back into the conversation. Mike, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.560 while we're talking about us consumption. What's interesting is there 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.760 was our Bloomberg Economics team putting out a story basically 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.160 that the bulls are wrong to take comfort in solid spending. Basically, 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.680 they're saying, how bulls offer and say, hey, there's strong consumption, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.960 that means things are okay, and that the US economies 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.760 nowhere near a recession. But what they basically say is 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.160 that you don't start to see consumer spending slow down 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.200 until we're actually in a recession, and that some measures 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.400 of consumption are more important, like durable goods weigh in 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.400 here on when you look at some of the personal 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.520 consumption numbers, what's really really important in what the Fed 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:48.800 probably pays attention to. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:55.280 Well, that's paying attention to overall consumer spending, not on 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.440 a data point by data point basis. They want to 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.280 know that the economy is still seeing some strength. Now, 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.799 it's true, as the economics people pointed out, that real 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:12.800 spending has been lower after you adjust for inflation, it 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.799 has been lower. It hasn't been anything to write all about. Still, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.159 it's been relatively positive, and we don't know whether it'll 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.440 start coming back or not. Maybe people take a breather, 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.320 but you know, I don't think that the FED is 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.160 too worried at this point about the consumer. They do 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.120 think that spending is going to slow, that things are 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:39.320 going to go according to their plan essentially, but at 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:43.440 this point there's nothing that would cause them to think 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.039 that they need to take any other action other than 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.440 what is in the markets. At least one rate move 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.240 and probably too. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.719 So Mike, just to follow In terms of what's going 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.760 on inside the FED, are they really unanimous in their thought? 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.520 And I bring it up right, anonymous vote for that 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.360 June pause at least that's what came out. But you've 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.200 got you know, Raphael Bostik basically saying we're done. And 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.200 I understand he's, you know, a non voting member, But 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.720 is there more tension inside the FED that maybe says 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.400 things could play out differently depending on the data come 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:19.960 the next couple of meetings. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.120 Sure there are people who are on the much more 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:28.080 dubbish side. One of the more dubbish people, Austin Gouldsby, 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:33.080 has deferred his decision on what he's going to do, 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.520 saying he hasn't made up his mind yet, but he 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:40.040 leans towards the dubtish side. And I think they could 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:45.360 have a split vote if we see inflation staying where 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.480 it is, or coming down just a little bit but 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.640 not enough, and consumer spending remaining strong enough. Because there 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.880 are others Mickey Bowman, who has made a lot of 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.760 comments about the economy being too strong and more needs 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.680 to be done. We haven't seen a descent from a 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.880 board member since two thousand and five, but one could 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.120 imagine that she would and possibly some others. 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.640 Hey, Torson, I want to ask a question that I've 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.320 got coming in from a listener. What level and unemployment 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.800 breaks the consumer? We were talking about that and the 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.960 broader economy. A higher unemployment means stress in credit card, 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.600 real estate services spending, and we've seen certainly credit card 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.560 usage jump and delinquencies start to rise as well, even 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.600 before student loan debt kicks back in. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.520 Absolutely and that so just on your final point, absolutely, 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.280 what's really unique is to think about it. The unemployer 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.400 rate is essentially still at the lowest level in fifty years, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.600 and we are already seeing delinquagy rates going up for 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.720 credit cards, for auto loans, We're beginning to see the 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.400 weekly data for bankruptcies for companies also beginning to move high. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.080 So why all these things already starting to slow down 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.080 even before the unemployer rate it has moved up. So 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.360 I would take all that combined and answer your question 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.760 by saying that, well, at least the feed says that 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:08.679 in the long run, the unemployerent rate that we need 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.160 to go above is roughly four and a half, and 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.520 give it with we have three point seven. That means 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.200 that we have several months ahead of us where the 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.960 labor market needs to weaken before the event will begin 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:20.959 to say Okay, enough is enough. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:21.520 At J. 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.240 Powell again in Central and Portugal earlier this week very 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.719 clearly said we need the label market to solve in 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.040 which is another way of saying we need the unemployer 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.120 rate to go up, and we have not really seen 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.560 the unplroner rate go up meaningfully. And well that at least, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.520 in my view, one percentage point from here before we'll 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.760 begin to see a more meaningful slow down in the 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:40.560 broaday economy. 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.240 All right, guys, we got to run. Thank you so 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.920 much Tristan Slock, chief economist and partner over at Apollo 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.280 Global Management on the New York City, and our thanks 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.960 of course to our own Michael McKee, international economics and 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.200 policy correspondent at Bloomberg joining us on the phone in 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:54.040 New York City. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.959 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.320 Live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.439 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.000 or wants us Live on YouTube. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.600 I want to get to some other news that certainly 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.480 caught my attention on the Bloomberg today, the SEC pushing 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.920 back against a wave of filings by asset managers to 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.600 launch the first US exchange traded fun ETF that invest 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.920 directly in bitcoin, Matt. They said, the applications lack clarity 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.960 and further information is needed before they are considered for approval. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.400 Yes, but they're going to get that. I think I 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.520 saw that NASDAK is going to go back as well 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.720 as the CBO. They're going to go back and refile 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.160 answer the questions that the SEC had. I am really 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.560 stumped as to the problems that the SEC has with 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.360 a spot bitcoin ETF, because bitcoin has been acknowledged, even 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.720 by Gary Gensler. It's a commodity, and there are a 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.040 lot of ETFs that hold commodities, and there are a 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.199 lot of commodities that are volatile, just like Bitcoin is volatile, 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.880 so I'm thinking back, if anybody can handle uh handle it, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.280 Blackrock and Fidelity probably could. 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.160 One would hope. So let's see what Timothy Tully has 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.240 to say. He's see you at the digital asset wallet 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:11.319 Xelcore Technologies. He's on Zoom from Bethany Beach, Delaware. Tim, 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.000 good to have you back. It's been a few months here, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.240 so what do you make of this? 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:21.880 Glad to be here. First of all, thank you Busy Friday. Yes. Interesting. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:23.000 You know two days. 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.680 Ago we were talking about the two of the world's 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:30.040 largest asset managers fifteen trillion dollars in assets filing for 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.480 spot ets, right, so or the equivalent of five apples 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.120 as of today. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:34.400 Right. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.880 And so today the SEC comes back and says, pushes 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.600 back quickly. By the way, this pretty quick response under 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:48.440 really under ten days to the Blackrock filing, saying lack 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.000 of information and lack of clarity, and they need more information, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:58.600 specifically some of the surveillance monitoring that Blackrock and Fideli 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.160 had proposed. So I think that's going to get ironed out. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.559 I actually think the quick response here is a good thing. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.800 I do think it's ironic that the SEC is saying 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.040 that their quick read says this has a lack of clarity, 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.199 it's choking with irony. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.560 But I think really is It's almost like Gary Gensler's joking. 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.280 Is this some kind of satire? 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.160 It certainly feels that way, doesn't it. But look, I 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.040 think the reality is I think we all knew who 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:32.920 the CEO of Blackrock is. He's an aggressive democrat, He's 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.600 plugged into what's going on. BlackRock's batting average, I think 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.560 is five hundred and seventy five to one for their 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.160 ETF filings. They're going to win this one over time. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.600 The question is when it's going to happen. And I 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.760 think for those of us in the crypto world, we 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.439 kind of mixed feelings, right because this is a really 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.560 good thing, particularly for the mass adoption crowd who sees 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.960 two bell Weather companies that are going to offer access 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.640 to bitcoin action in particular, and so I think that's great. 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.360 I think that's great for crypto. It's going to be 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.560 great for the broader crypto market. I think for me, 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.080 as somebody who's been in traditional finance for a long time, 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.880 the genesis for ETFs was to give everyone access to 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.000 commodities in particular, think about gold. Your average human couldn't 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.920 store and and and hold gold. It was it's impossible 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.959 to do that. So the ETFs were created. Blockchain technology 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:32.080 is specifically designed to address that particular issue. So I 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.360 think this is good short, short term, long term. I 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.319 hope we let the technology do its thing. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.040 But the other thing I think, and I'm sure many 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:41.559 I know many people have cited. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:47.680 This in the news, but bitcoin holders are and this 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.760 is I'm this has come from somebody who's been in 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.880 the equity world's most of his career, right. Bitcoin holders 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.319 are some of the longest holders, three to five years 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.760 of holding bitcoin. So you've got to fix applot have assets, 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.160 you've got a long holding, long hands holding bitcoin, and 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.680 then you've got these huge players coming in the market 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.959 trying to buy up apply. Price can only go one 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.320 direction when that happens, right, So it's going to be 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.000 really interesting about the timing how far in front of 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.080 the timing the market is. But I think we're going 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.160 to see some really positive price action a bitcoin over 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:28.160 time very quickly. 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.000 No, you've got to have the trust, you've got to 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.880 have the belief in the asset, right, And it does 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.440 look like we've had it for ten years and it's 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.760 built up. Right now or today, we hit an inter 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.480 day high on bitcoin as well. It was over thirty 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.280 one thousand dollars. Hadn't been that high since June seventh. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.400 I think of last year and recall that it dropped 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.760 precipitously in the period a couple weeks last June. Right, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:57.280 I wonder about you know, my take on the crisis 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:01.000 that we saw with FTX and the other exchange was 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.880 kind of serves you right for for keeping your bitcoin 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.800 in their centralized exchange, Like, that's not the point of 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.400 this asset. You're supposed to hold it yourself at home, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.000 you know, maybe or wherever you like. But it's very 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.760 easy to put in cold storage and keep it safe. 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:19.360 Right. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:21.000 Absolutely. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.920 I think we're going to see non custodial exchanges really 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:25.920 flourish after this. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:29.760 Couldn't agree with you more, Matt. 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.720 Obviously, my company is in the space of helping people 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.120 individuals buystorm manage their own crypto. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:36.600 So I think. 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.880 Your product, by the way, what is your what is 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:39.400 your wallet? 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.160 So we have a non custodio solution. 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.240 We've been around for four or five years, multiplatforms, so 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.440 you can get on desktop and mobile and basically every 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.800 platform that you can think of. We support over seventy blockchains. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.560 So we believe in the ethos of whatever you want 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.880 to hold, you can hold it on our wallet. And 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.360 we believe digital assets are here to stay. And we're 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.200 spending a lot of time talking about crypto finance, but 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:10.480 we really believe that crypto technology and all of insurance 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.440 and real estate and tokenized assets like securities and other things, 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:16.800 all those things will be digital assets that you'll want 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.080 to store in custody yourself, and our solution will help 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:20.480 you do that. 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:20.680 Well. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.760 Wall Street definitely is with you on most of that, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.720 probably not the custody part, but clearly even the big 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.080 banks know it's all going towards tokenization. 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:33.320 Absolutely. 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.520 Yeah, I get that part of it. I guess I 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.479 just still wonder that we're still figuring it out exactly 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.680 what cryptocurrencies are. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.000 It's only been since two thousand and nine, Carol, I. 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.200 Know, but still I think, considering what we saw over 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.960 the last year, I think regulators are right to be 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:52.520 cautious as they move forward. 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.040 Yeah, well, what do you think about that, Timothy? I 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.640 mean cautious. I get it, just seems like a little 0:16:58.640 --> 0:16:59.600 bit more than that and just. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.640 Got about twenty five to thirty seconds. 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.560 Yeah, it absolutely feels like there's a lot more going 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.719 on there. I think everybody that's in the space believes 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:12.040 we need to have regulation, but we need clarity ourselves, right, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.359 So what we're getting is a lack of clarity from 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.920 the administration and the SEC. And what we're seeing is 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.040 a lot of countries outside of the US being more 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:23.800 aggressive here. We want to be the innovation center for 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.080 the world. We're going to need to get our stuff 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.320 together here to make sure that people want to stay 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:29.600 and develop in the United States. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:31.760 All right, Timothy, thanks so much. Have a great weekend 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.159 and a great holiday. Timothy Tully, CEO at the Digital 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.760 asset wallet Zelcore Technologies. Joining us on zoom from Bethany Beach, Delaware. 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.439 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.480 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.960 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.200 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.320 Just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.840 Thirty Well women hold a third of P five hundred 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.080 board seats for the first time ever after scores of 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.240 men gave up their directorships in May, a long elusive 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.320 goal that's been touted as a baseline for lasting change. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.600 The threshold was pastoring, the peak season for annual meetings 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.119 when many directors retire, men Matt vacating four times as 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.399 many seats than women. And this was according to a 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.920 recent data compiled by our team here at Bloomberg, reported 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.159 out by her Jeff Green, So we've seen a shift. 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:24.800 What's the matter? 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:26.080 Nothing? 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:31.359 Oh okay, you look, that's just my face perplexed. All right, well, 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.720 let's get to you. We've a perfect guest. Carolyn Everson 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.639 is board member of the not Worldwide, the global wedding marketplace. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.880 They operate in sixteen countries. She's also board member at 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.960 the Walt Disney Company. Art under Armour. She is the president, 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.080 a former president of Instacart, former VP of Global Business 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.800 over at Meta, former corporate VP at Microsoft. We just 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.120 wanted to lay it out and she joins us on Zoom. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.800 You have an incredible, incredible background. Carolyn, Thank you so 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.000 much for joining us. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:00.800 Thank you for having me. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.720 It's great to be on well and I want to 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.080 start with your background, because what is it. First of all, 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:06.760 we're going to get into corporate boards and we want 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.280 to talk about the business of the knot. But you know, 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.000 the media world, social media or the evolving traditional media world. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:15.920 What do you find interesting and do you think should 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:17.200 be watched by our audience. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.920 Well, I think the thing that is constant is change, 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.480 and what I would say to the audience is lean 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.520 into the change as much as possible, because the consumer 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.400 in many ways is moving faster than even companies are. 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.880 And this is there's a tremendous need for transformation still 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.679 in twenty twenty three, and that was even prior to 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.119 the advent of AI that everyone is talking about. There 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.360 were still many traditional companies that had to transform everything 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.480 that they were doing. And now AI is further putting 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.959 a further find point on that and accelerating change even faster. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:01.399 So I mean, at the knot, does any change? Is 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.879 any change still necessary? It seems like the business is 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.199 very digital and very forward looking in terms of the 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.639 way weddings are planned. I happen to know because I 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:11.800 used the not to plan my wedding a couple of 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:12.280 years ago. 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:14.239 Oh well, thank you, thank you. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:14.800 Very much. 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:16.720 Well, look, the let me take a step back and 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:18.840 just sort of set the context for the audience. The 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:23.080 wedding industry is a two hundred and fifty billion dollar industry. 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.920 It is extremely robust. Twenty twenty two was considered sort 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.960 of the super Bowl of weddings because there was such 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.159 pent up demand. We had two point six million I 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.399 dos in the United States alone this year'll it'll go 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.040