WEBVTT - Sacrifices

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<v Speaker 3>So you now it is really why I should started

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<v Speaker 3>real here Casscase dot claim right.

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<v Speaker 2>Up the hill. It took months of reporting on this

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<v Speaker 2>store before I had a good reason to return to

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<v Speaker 2>Atlanta's West End, to the leafy neighborhood of bungalows and

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<v Speaker 2>Victorian homes surrounding the mass hit the corner store and

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<v Speaker 2>the park the side of the shootout on March sixteenth,

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand. The community, the village, even founded and led

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<v Speaker 2>by Imam Jamille A Lamine, with its own school, its

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<v Speaker 2>own security force, even something like its own laws.

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<v Speaker 3>Make a right right and we'll come back in the back,

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<v Speaker 3>come out for what I did.

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<v Speaker 2>It was this man, Rodney Brown who brought me back here.

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<v Speaker 2>Rodney grew up in the West End and he was

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<v Speaker 2>a teenager when crack cocaine hit in the eighties. So

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<v Speaker 2>many people on his side of town got sucked into

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<v Speaker 2>a zombie like existence, traded their spirit for the little

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<v Speaker 2>white rocks, and Rodney he got sucked into the fast

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<v Speaker 2>cash started dealing. He said he can make three or

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<v Speaker 2>four thousand dollars a day when he started out, as

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<v Speaker 2>long as he was willing to risk standing out on

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<v Speaker 2>the corner. I remember those days. I was just a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>but I saw how older relatives got caught up in

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<v Speaker 2>and out of jail, on and off the streets. Drugs,

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<v Speaker 2>guns and violence were cornerstones of the life. My parents

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<v Speaker 2>steered me and my siblings clear of it. We even

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<v Speaker 2>kept a distance from some relatives. And Mam Jimial was

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<v Speaker 2>in the thick of it, though, and as a leader,

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<v Speaker 2>he had little choice but to confront the problem head on.

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<v Speaker 2>In time, he developed a reputation for a quote cleaning

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<v Speaker 2>up the West End, making it a safe place to

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<v Speaker 2>raise families, not just for Muslims in his community, but

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<v Speaker 2>also others who lived nearby. Rodney witnessed some of that

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<v Speaker 2>from his particular perspective.

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<v Speaker 3>Did rad Hill was a maid to Trout this happen?

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<v Speaker 3>This is what tim of got key you.

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<v Speaker 2>Rodney was still a teenager when he bought his first

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<v Speaker 2>eight K forty seven, so he saw some things more

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<v Speaker 2>than his share of violence in his younger days. He

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<v Speaker 2>might have had more acquaintances who were killed than I

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<v Speaker 2>had friends in all of high school. Driving through the

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<v Speaker 2>neighborhood with him, the specter of violence gave me a headache.

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<v Speaker 2>We were surrounded by places where people who Rodney knew

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<v Speaker 2>had been struck down. Back in the book, I told

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<v Speaker 2>you I wasn't selling drug until.

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<v Speaker 3>The girl got killed on the bridge, Tanya Natalia mine.

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<v Speaker 3>He got killed on the bread. I just got got

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<v Speaker 3>myself caught up in sound. I don't think they chopped

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<v Speaker 3>him up back though, but I know they are. This

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<v Speaker 3>is what they dunk about it at. This was black giants.

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<v Speaker 3>This was black giant trap house. This way he sold

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<v Speaker 3>his weight. He was right here, but he ain't get killed.

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<v Speaker 3>He got killed back up though. I should have showed

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<v Speaker 3>down that when I was up there.

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<v Speaker 2>These killings happened in and around the part of the

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<v Speaker 2>West End controlled by a man Jamil, the area he

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<v Speaker 2>had supposedly cleaned up. It's the roughly six or seven

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<v Speaker 2>mostly residential blocks, apartments and houses that surround the park.

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<v Speaker 2>Just to the south of the park was the mas

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<v Speaker 2>Jed and the man Jamil's corner store. That was Jamel's store.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly we turned and drove over the place where Deputy

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<v Speaker 2>Kinchin and Deputy English were shot. The part of the

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<v Speaker 2>street that was littered with shellcasings that.

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<v Speaker 3>Night in two thousand. It's the mobs, this green and

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<v Speaker 3>white one. That's the mobs. Jamil Alami stayed all these

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<v Speaker 3>his house, each one of these houses. See all these

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<v Speaker 3>this community mobs. I's see up in here. Ain't nobody

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<v Speaker 3>never sold no drugs here.

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<v Speaker 2>And Man Jamil hated drugs and drug dealing. So Rodney

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<v Speaker 2>and the seasoned dealers in the West End they knew

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<v Speaker 2>better than posting up on the corners next to the

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<v Speaker 2>mass Jed, the park and the corner store, the spot

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<v Speaker 2>where a mam gmial could be found most days, shooting hoops,

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<v Speaker 2>tending to the store, or chilling outside at the picnic table.

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<v Speaker 2>It was considered holy land. Instead, Rodney and the other dealers.

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<v Speaker 2>They did their business on the edges of a mam

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<v Speaker 2>Jamil's community. Still, somehow many of them ended up shot

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<v Speaker 2>and dead. Rodney was one of the few who survived.

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<v Speaker 2>In the nineties, before the shootout in March two thousand,

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<v Speaker 2>dozens of people were allegedly murdered in the West End,

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<v Speaker 2>dozens with little accountability. And it wasn't just the typical

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<v Speaker 2>violence you might expect drug dealers to encounter. In my

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<v Speaker 2>reporting of this story, so many people described for me

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<v Speaker 2>the breezy way a mam gmial moved through the West End,

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<v Speaker 2>how he seemed to carelessly float past his though catching

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<v Speaker 2>the wind. But my question after hearing these stories was this.

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<v Speaker 2>Did a mam Jamil rest control from the dope dealers

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<v Speaker 2>with that kind of grace alone, or was there something else?

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<v Speaker 2>When I looked into the killings all those folks who

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<v Speaker 2>Rodney knew who died, what I learned was disturbing, far

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<v Speaker 2>worse than I ever imagined. From Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV,

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<v Speaker 2>and iHeart podcasts, this is radical. I'm Mosey's Secret Episode

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<v Speaker 2>seven Sacrifices. We learned about the murders and the thousands

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<v Speaker 2>of pages of documents were received from the Fulton County

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<v Speaker 2>DA's office. The stuff we got in response to our

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<v Speaker 2>open records request. Reading those reports, what started out as

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<v Speaker 2>a quest to get to the bottom of the shootout

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<v Speaker 2>with the deputies and to figure out whether a Mam

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<v Speaker 2>Jamil was really capable of that kind of violence, suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>got this whole other layer because the documents described a

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<v Speaker 2>man who allegedly was way more than capable, who was

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<v Speaker 2>involved in a rash of killings in the West End

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<v Speaker 2>way before the shootout, who used a mafioso like ruthlessness

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<v Speaker 2>to get what he wanted. Figuring out whether the accusations

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<v Speaker 2>had any merit had every bearing on understanding who a

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<v Speaker 2>Maam Jamil was and just as importantly, who law enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>thought he was in the period leading up to the shootout.

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<v Speaker 2>The key document we got is called Synopsis of West

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<v Speaker 2>End Homicides. It's just eleven pages long, a list mostly

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<v Speaker 2>with quick summaries, dates and the names of victims, and

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<v Speaker 2>the section at the top law enforcement connects a Mamjmil

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<v Speaker 2>to see sixteen killings over about a decade nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 2>six to nineteen ninety seven. Most of the victims were

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<v Speaker 2>drug dealers. Rodney knew many, if not all, the people

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<v Speaker 2>who were killed, and we looked over the list with him.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not in the streets anymore. He spent time in

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<v Speaker 2>prison and started fresh. So part of what he felt

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<v Speaker 2>was shocked at seeing the world he was so close

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<v Speaker 2>to with more perspective. He struggled to make sense of

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<v Speaker 2>the amount of killing.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess when they started happening, it was normal to man.

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<v Speaker 3>Think about you walk out the door and they have

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<v Speaker 3>shot his dude face off. When they shot Tome and

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<v Speaker 3>face off, and it was you know, it was always

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<v Speaker 3>violand in the West then but they shot his face

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<v Speaker 3>off a month not even a month later, shot n

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<v Speaker 3>them times in the face. Then everybody on your neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>You go to the globe, y'all killing there. Everybody.

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<v Speaker 3>They thought we was killing the motherfucker.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we thought about it, so it was attached

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<v Speaker 2>to us.

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<v Speaker 3>Really they went or one for it because we won't over.

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<v Speaker 2>The synopsis of the Weston Homicides portrays a man Jamil

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<v Speaker 2>as some kind of kingpin heading up a group of

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<v Speaker 2>brothers from the mass jed An inner circle who ran

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<v Speaker 2>guns and extorted drug dealers, secretly killing the competition and

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<v Speaker 2>anyone else who knew too much about what they were doing.

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<v Speaker 2>Very strong allegations. In the earliest days of the West

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<v Speaker 2>End mass Jed, a mam Jamil set up a security team.

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<v Speaker 2>This I know it to be true. Nothing unusual there.

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<v Speaker 2>Most mass Jeds have them. Brothers would walk people home

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<v Speaker 2>from the mass Jed after prayer make sure nobody out

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<v Speaker 2>on the street caused any trouble. But the West End

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<v Speaker 2>seems to have taken their security further than most. A

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<v Speaker 2>member of the mass Jed told me how once some

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<v Speaker 2>guys started fighting during a basketball game at the park.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the West End versus a different neighborhood. The

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<v Speaker 2>outsiders left, but they were so pissed they came back

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<v Speaker 2>with guns before they could do any home though the

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<v Speaker 2>Muslim brothers fired. Even a mammaed Meal came out of

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<v Speaker 2>his little shop and let loose. As the outsiders fled,

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<v Speaker 2>they nearly flipped their car over, and when the cops

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<v Speaker 2>came by afterwards asking if everything was all right, the

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<v Speaker 2>Westend brothers said yeah, they had it under control. It

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<v Speaker 2>was frontier justice and guns were critical. On any given

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<v Speaker 2>day in the park, a good number of men had

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<v Speaker 2>rifles hanging on straps under their thobes. At night, they

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<v Speaker 2>rode around in cars or stood out on corners, also strapped,

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<v Speaker 2>they could hold their own behind the trigger too. The

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<v Speaker 2>brothers sometimes went to the shooting range together for target practice,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Mamas Meal would often join, just like he

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<v Speaker 2>used to in his earliest days in the movement. There

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<v Speaker 2>were many many guns flowing through the West End in

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<v Speaker 2>the late eighties and early nineties. Rodney he wasn't only

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<v Speaker 2>dealing in cracking weed. He sold guns too.

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<v Speaker 3>Yody who wanted guns in a lon did like they

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<v Speaker 3>want weed in Lona. They came to the West End.

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<v Speaker 3>They want a pistol. I said, okay, what kind won't.

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<v Speaker 2>Rodney's gun supplier was right around the corner. He was

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<v Speaker 2>buying from the Muslims.

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<v Speaker 3>I had Muslim knock on my door in the middle

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<v Speaker 3>of the night with boxes. Man, No, lie, I can't

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<v Speaker 3>count them. I'm talking about guns, rifles. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>In the early nineties, two brothers from the mass Jed

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<v Speaker 2>were charged with running guns out of the storefront right

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<v Speaker 2>next to a man Jimill's corner store. They bought the

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<v Speaker 2>guns legally, but they were accused of selling them like

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<v Speaker 2>they might have done to Rodney without keeping the right

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<v Speaker 2>paperwork to track where they went. A federal agent testified

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<v Speaker 2>that a handful of guns went to the mass Jed's

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<v Speaker 2>security patrol, but more than two hundred were recovered in Philadelphia, Detroit,

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<v Speaker 2>New Haven, and New York City over three years. The

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<v Speaker 2>two accused men allegedly bought at least seventy three thousand

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<v Speaker 2>dollars worth of firearms, and they probably weren't just being

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<v Speaker 2>used for target practice. Many were Davis three eighties, a

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<v Speaker 2>handgun with a reputation as a Saturday Night special because

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<v Speaker 2>it's cheap and often used in crimes. At the gun

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<v Speaker 2>running trial, a member of the Masjid and the security

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<v Speaker 2>patrol testified for the prosecution. His name was Shahid ab

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<v Speaker 2>duur Rahman. He was in prison at the time for

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<v Speaker 2>shooting and killing a man. On the stand, he said

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<v Speaker 2>he bought guns from the accused men and then sent

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<v Speaker 2>them to New York, but he stopped short of saying

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<v Speaker 2>that the defendants knowingly sold gun to criminals planning to

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<v Speaker 2>commit crimes. Maybe that was because on the day he testified,

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<v Speaker 2>AmAm Jamil showed up the picture of menace he was

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<v Speaker 2>wearing an all black thobe and a black turban and

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<v Speaker 2>black charcoal around his eyes. If the FBI thought this

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<v Speaker 2>dude Shahid might implicate the AmAm, they better think again.

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<v Speaker 2>Not long after the gun running case wrapped up, Ma'am

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<v Speaker 2>Jamil got caught up in a case himself.

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<v Speaker 4>He was once the leader of the Student Non Violent

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<v Speaker 4>Coordinating Committee and part of the Black Power movement. Today,

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<v Speaker 4>h Rap Brown is known as Jamil Abdullah a La

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<v Speaker 4>Main and he appeared in court. He is charged with

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<v Speaker 4>aggravated assault and weapons violations after allegedly shooting a man

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<v Speaker 4>July twenty sixth.

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<v Speaker 2>In nineteen ninety five, Atlanta police responded to a shooting

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<v Speaker 2>at West End Park of a man named William Miles.

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<v Speaker 2>One bullet entered and exited his leg without doing any

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<v Speaker 2>permanent damage. The responding officer said, Myles I d'ed to

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<v Speaker 2>Maam Jamil as the shooter. Then the next morning, AmAm

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<v Speaker 2>Jamil and another brother from the mass Jed went to

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<v Speaker 2>visit Miles at home. When an Atlanta police detective later

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<v Speaker 2>interviewed Myles, he did not identify a man Jamil as

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<v Speaker 2>the shooter, but a few days later that detective and

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<v Speaker 2>some federal agents pulled a Mam Jamil over in his

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.400
<v Speaker 2>black Mercedes. They arrested him for aggravated assault and for

0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:05.080
<v Speaker 2>carrying a forty five caliber pistol without a license. We

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.720
<v Speaker 2>found the recording of an interview a local television reporter

0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.640
<v Speaker 2>did with a Man Jamil a few days later after

0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.920
<v Speaker 2>he got out of jail on bond. He was in

0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 2>his early fifties at the time. During the interview, he's

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 2>standing on the sidewalk outside his store wearing a black

0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 2>thoat and a black knitted coofee. He has a thin

0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.080
<v Speaker 2>beard and oval glasses.

0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.640
<v Speaker 5>Do you know William Miles only from reading the paper

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 5>and seeing his name? You know this is my familiar

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.600
<v Speaker 5>being familiar with him through that you never met with him?

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 2>And I went to his house. If he's the same

0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 2>person who was shot?

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 5>I asked him, was it true that he was saying

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 5>that a Muslim shot him? He said that he saw

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 5>a tall person and the person had black on and

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 5>the person who shut him, you know, was tall and.

0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Had black on.

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 6>Was it you to do?

0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Do?

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 5>What to go see him, to talk to shot him?

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 2>To shoot him?

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 5>That's the allegation of police of made Well again. That's

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.360
<v Speaker 5>the thing that has to be determined in court.

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Man Then the reporter asked to Ma'am Jamil if he

0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.800
<v Speaker 2>still thinks violence is as an American as cherry pie.

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.160
<v Speaker 5>I think it's evident, and I think that more people

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 5>realize what was being said. And I've always advocated self defense.

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 5>A loss is in the Qur'an tyranny and oppression is

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 5>worse than slaw. To fight them wherever you may find him.

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 5>So again, that whole sense of the right to self

0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 5>defense as a human is a platform we've always stood on.

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 6>I guess then the obvious question is did you have

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 6>a forty five automatic pistol on you as a means

0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:34.720
<v Speaker 6>of self defense.

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 5>That's a part of the case again that has to

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:38.320
<v Speaker 5>be litigated in court.

0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Imam Jamil didn't seem to be denying he was involved,

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>but William Miles, the victim of the shooting, he later

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 2>suggested that he was actually pressured by the police to

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>name a Maam Jamil as the shooter. Four national Islamic

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>groups urge the Department of Justice to investigate the arrest.

0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 2>The charges were eventually dropped and the case went away.

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 2>So not counting the incident with the sheriff's deputies. That's

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 2>two shootings at the park that a Maam Jamil may

0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 2>have been involved in, the one after the basketball game

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 2>and the shooting of William Miles. Nobody that we know

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 2>of was seriously hurt, and the shootings could be described

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 2>as part of protecting the community self defense in a way.

0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Like a Maam Jimil told the reporter in that interview,

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 2>it's a platform he's always stood on. But the a

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Maam killing all those drug dealers, or even ordering them killed,

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 2>like the allegations we saw in the synopsis of Western homicides,

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 2>that would be on a whole other level. I don't

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 2>think a Mam Jmil was pulling the trigger in those murders,

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:47.680
<v Speaker 2>but he didn't know the man who did much of

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 2>the killing, if not all of it, because he was

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 2>a well respected member of the Master JD and the

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 2>security patrol. Law enforcement knew this killer too, and not

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.520
<v Speaker 2>just because they were trying to catch him. No, they

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.119
<v Speaker 2>had a secret relationship with him, one that reveals just

0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 2>how far they'd go to take down a man Jamil.

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 2>In the late eighties, when Ronnie got into the game

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.680
<v Speaker 2>and started dealing, he had his disposal in the West

0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.679
<v Speaker 2>End to use the business school term a network. He

0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:31.800
<v Speaker 2>grew up about a block from West End Park and

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 2>the kids he played with, many of them were still around.

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 2>That included Muslim kids too.

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I hung with the smoked weeds and smoked cigarettes

0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.520
<v Speaker 3>and thrunk them. The ones that came to mind place

0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 3>to shoot pool. But they still went and prayed every Friday,

0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 3>you know.

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Just like Chris was just like all religions, all.

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 3>Of them not good, all of them not bad. He's

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 3>just like the ones that hung around me. Probably was

0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.919
<v Speaker 3>the bad seeds. I was a bad seed. So and

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:01.919
<v Speaker 3>that's that's that relation.

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 2>I grew up with. How you gonna do?

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 3>People say they just killed God men? One of us did?

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.760
<v Speaker 3>Why he knews since we was kids.

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.240
<v Speaker 2>Shaheed abduer Rothman was maybe the Muslim who Rodney came

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 2>to know best in the West End. He had moved

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 2>to Atlanta from New York, where he'd lived through shattering trauma.

0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.159
<v Speaker 3>It was the Jamaicans that killed his mom. He stayed

0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.800
<v Speaker 3>in the house for like four days with a dead body.

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 2>When he was whole, he was really like a toxic

0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.600
<v Speaker 2>of self. I think he stayed in there.

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 3>He stayed in high with a dead by it like

0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:34.920
<v Speaker 3>four days and was his mom.

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:36.240
<v Speaker 2>That's the story.

0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 3>Tell people, you know what I'm saying.

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.439
<v Speaker 2>Shahid's passed is pretty mysterious. Other than that, but his

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.320
<v Speaker 2>childhood seemed to have marked his destiny for darkness. Shahid

0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 2>said that when he moved to Atlanta at seventeen or eighteen,

0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it was because he was flinging the aftermath of some shooting.

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.840
<v Speaker 2>He joined the Master and the security team, and over

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.920
<v Speaker 2>time built a reputation as a gentleman, a good Muslim,

0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.399
<v Speaker 2>and a family man. But he was secretly or not

0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.240
<v Speaker 2>so secretly, depending on whom you talk to, living a

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.720
<v Speaker 2>double life, and the security team was his cover. If

0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 2>most guys on the security patrol kept the defensive posture,

0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.679
<v Speaker 2>standing guard in the neighborhood or escorting families to their

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.879
<v Speaker 2>houses at night, Shahid seemed to use his authority to

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.359
<v Speaker 2>shake down the streets, going out sometimes with younger guys,

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 2>teenagers mostly, who went after drug dealers like they were cops,

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 2>busting into trap houses and confiscating dope, and that response

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 2>seemed to blow the lines between right and wrong. I

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.840
<v Speaker 2>heard how these guys got rid of the drugs they

0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.440
<v Speaker 2>seized at first flushed them down the toilet, but after

0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.399
<v Speaker 2>a while they realized they were throwing money away, And

0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:47.360
<v Speaker 2>I wonder when dealers didn't back down what happened? Then

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 2>I got like Shahid, who seemed to have developed a

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.400
<v Speaker 2>taste for blood. He thrived.

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.080
<v Speaker 3>With Shahi, everybody knew he was a dangerous person, and

0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.800
<v Speaker 3>my friends said, hey, whatever you do, don't get in

0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.880
<v Speaker 3>the call with that motherfucker, because they know you'd come

0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:05.960
<v Speaker 3>at When murt came.

0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.000
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen ninety, Shahied was involved in two killings. The

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.840
<v Speaker 2>victims were in that document we got the synopsis of

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Western homicides. Then about a year later, Shahied was involved

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.160
<v Speaker 2>in another killing. People began to suspect he was doing

0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.160
<v Speaker 2>hit jobs, and to wonder who was calling the shots.

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Shahid became a leader of the patrol and became close

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 2>to a man Jamil, but eventually he was charged with murder,

0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.359
<v Speaker 2>and with Shahied off the streets, the violence in the

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>West End seemed to taper off. Meanwhile, after Shahid got

0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.200
<v Speaker 2>locked up, Rodney said he was doing well for himself.

0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.320
<v Speaker 2>When things are really humming. He was moving hundreds of

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:51.880
<v Speaker 2>thousands of dollars worth of drugs on a monthly basis.

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 2>Rodney stayed in touch with Shaheed while Shahid was in prison,

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 2>sent him weed. Shahid was his friend and Rodney, in

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.320
<v Speaker 2>his criminal way at the time, was generous like that.

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Around this time the FBI came offering Shahied some help too.

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.840
<v Speaker 2>We know that while Shahied was incarcerated, he met with

0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:15.080
<v Speaker 2>an agent named Bill Gant. Not long after Shahid testified

0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.280
<v Speaker 2>for the prosecution in the gun running case against two

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 2>brothers from the weston mass Jed, when a man Jamil

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 2>showed up in all black then likely in exchange for

0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Shahid's cooperation, Gant the agent put in a word with

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the Georgia Parole Board and by nineteen ninety five, Shahied

0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.640
<v Speaker 2>was back on the street and back in the mass Jed.

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.600
<v Speaker 2>He had done approximately four years for killing and this

0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 2>is when folks on the outside started wondering what the

0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 2>fuck is going on here. When Shahid got out, Rodney

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.760
<v Speaker 2>was surprised he didn't hear from him right away. I'm

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 2>a man, I'm mother, I'm the man. He know that,

0:21:57.760 --> 0:21:58.800
<v Speaker 2>he know he didn't her.

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm taking care of his motherfuck in prison. I'm sending

0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:07.119
<v Speaker 3>weed to prison for free. Never ask for a penny.

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.399
<v Speaker 3>So why when you come speak to me? Why?

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.439
<v Speaker 2>And Ronnie didn't want to worry about Shahied walking up

0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.679
<v Speaker 2>behind him on the street with a pistol or a shotgun.

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Rodney was starting to think Shahied was a rat his words,

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 2>not mine. So after three months of waiting, Rodney got

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 2>his address and stopped by.

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:30.920
<v Speaker 3>I knocked on the door.

0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:31.640
<v Speaker 2>He looked at him.

0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 3>I fucking seeing it with me, opened the door. I said,

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.840
<v Speaker 3>what's up, man? How long you been out?

0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:37.280
<v Speaker 6>You know?

0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:39.600
<v Speaker 2>He was like, I've been a few coming out. Come

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.480
<v Speaker 2>on in. Rodney asked Shahied straight up. How'd you get

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 2>out of jail? Shahid told Rodney that the brothers in

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 2>the mast and they wanted him back in the neighborhood.

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.639
<v Speaker 2>They said, look, why don't you testify against one of

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:54.960
<v Speaker 2>the accused in this gun running case so that you

0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.639
<v Speaker 2>can get your time cut. Just don't implicate the big man,

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:05.240
<v Speaker 2>meaning a man Jimmy Rodney believed Shahied. But here's what's

0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 2>weird about that story from my perspective. Anyway, the brothers

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.040
<v Speaker 2>who Shahid testified against were members of the mass Jed

0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:16.560
<v Speaker 2>since the earliest days founding members. Really, why let them

0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.920
<v Speaker 2>take the fall so that Shahed, a much more dangerous

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 2>man by all accounts, could come home. Why would the

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.760
<v Speaker 2>AmAm give that? The Okay people told me that Ammam

0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.919
<v Speaker 2>Jamil would not block anyone from practicing their religion, that

0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:34.440
<v Speaker 2>AmAm Jamil was close with everyone, including Shahed, a spiritual adviser,

0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.879
<v Speaker 2>always guiding people back to Islam. But that got messy.

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Soon after Shahid got out of prison in March of

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:45.359
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety five, he killed a man in April. There

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:49.639
<v Speaker 2>was another body later that year two more. Shahid was

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:51.840
<v Speaker 2>linked to at least eight killings just in the West

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:56.680
<v Speaker 2>End before the end of nineteen ninety five. Shahed, Rodney said,

0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:58.359
<v Speaker 2>would brag about what he was doing.

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:01.200
<v Speaker 3>He's a serious killer.

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you he got the kill.

0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 3>He gonna start some beef and it ain't gonna be

0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.120
<v Speaker 3>he gonna make up or reading to kill the mother fuck.

0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.360
<v Speaker 2>You might remember sister Jamila Jahad from the first episode

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:17.080
<v Speaker 2>of the podcast. She converted to Islam, took the Shahada

0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.399
<v Speaker 2>from my Mam Jamil, and raised her family in the

0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:23.320
<v Speaker 2>West End. Sister Jamila ran a construction company and she

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.320
<v Speaker 2>was having problems with an employee or a contractor someone

0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.359
<v Speaker 2>she was working with. Anyway, one day, Shahi came up

0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:31.159
<v Speaker 2>to hurt the message.

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.560
<v Speaker 3>He said to me, you won't need to take care

0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:38.119
<v Speaker 3>of them, you know, for not not doing something, to

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:39.200
<v Speaker 3>paying you or something like that.

0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I said, no, what you're talking about?

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:43.160
<v Speaker 6>But do you take care of how?

0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 2>You know?

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 5>But I had no idea.

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Who you know, who he had become.

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:50.919
<v Speaker 2>That's how he approached you.

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:53.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but he was a part you know, his friend

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:54.840
<v Speaker 3>were working for me?

0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:57.399
<v Speaker 2>And now do you know what? You know what he

0:24:57.440 --> 0:24:58.400
<v Speaker 2>meant when he said that.

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm thinking.

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Murder in a minute, you know, I think that's what

0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 2>he was thinking too.

0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:09.159
<v Speaker 3>And I said, no, what's you talking about? What your

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:10.720
<v Speaker 3>clients on, what you're doing.

0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 2>It was so casual how Shahid asked her if he

0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.720
<v Speaker 2>should take somebody out. There's no doubt in my mind

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:21.640
<v Speaker 2>that wasn't the first time that he asked that question

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.160
<v Speaker 2>to a remember of the mass did. And there's little

0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:25.879
<v Speaker 2>doubt in my mind that after all the years he

0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:28.200
<v Speaker 2>spent in the community, that at least a few people

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>said yes. Why else would god fearing, family loving folks

0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:35.080
<v Speaker 2>keep a guy like him around if not for skeletons,

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:40.399
<v Speaker 2>literally skeletons, what's worse And I'm sorry to drop this

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 2>bombshell on you. Shahik was grooming the more troubled boys

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.720
<v Speaker 2>in the community to become killers, letting them touch his

0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 2>guns at first, then taking them out shooting, and then

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:52.320
<v Speaker 2>out on hits. I talked to one of these guys.

0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 2>It took him decades to get his life on track.

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.280
<v Speaker 2>For the life of me, I can't understand how a

0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.399
<v Speaker 2>person like Shaheed could fly under the radar in such

0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:04.840
<v Speaker 2>a small commute unity. AmAm Jamil would ultimately pay a

0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:08.440
<v Speaker 2>price because after Shahid got out of prison and returned

0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 2>to the community, he was on the federal payroll as

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 2>an FBI and foreman. I don't know how anyone could

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.880
<v Speaker 2>be surprised by that. Everyone knew Shahid had already cooperated once,

0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 2>but he was secretly helping the FED to build another case.

0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:34.600
<v Speaker 2>In the nineties, long before September eleventh, the FBI was

0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:40.000
<v Speaker 2>targeting alleged Muslim extremists. There was a surveillance operation named

0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Vulgar Betrayal. We know from the documents obtained by Karema Alamin,

0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:49.000
<v Speaker 2>a Mam Jamil's wife, that the FBI suspected A Maam

0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Jamil was some kind of terrorists or maybe supporting Islamic

0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 2>terrorists abroad. One report describes as Maam Jamil as a

0:26:56.880 --> 0:27:00.639
<v Speaker 2>leader of a network of master JITs with international connections

0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:04.840
<v Speaker 2>that are basically fronts for criminal activity. It's true that

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:08.639
<v Speaker 2>AmAm Jamil had some relationships with Muslims abroad, but was

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 2>he a terrorist. We've seen zero evidence of that. Meanwhile,

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:17.679
<v Speaker 2>people in the West End were still losing their lives,

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.439
<v Speaker 2>people right there in a Maam Jamil's neighborhood. From what

0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:24.000
<v Speaker 2>we can see in the documents, the FBI wasn't so

0:27:24.040 --> 0:27:32.880
<v Speaker 2>concerned about that. Shahidz Handler was the FBI agent Bill Gant,

0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:35.560
<v Speaker 2>who appeared to surveil A Maam Jamil in the mass

0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Jed for most of the nineties. We don't know much

0:27:38.840 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 2>about Gan except that he started to work for the

0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:44.320
<v Speaker 2>FBI in the late eighties and he allegedly got into

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 2>it once with one of his supervisors for pursuing a

0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Mam Jamil even after he'd been ordered to stop while

0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:53.720
<v Speaker 2>he was under oath. Gant set his role in the

0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:56.120
<v Speaker 2>investigation of a man Jamil and the mass jed ended

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning of ninety five, but months later, in

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:02.440
<v Speaker 2>the summer of ninety five, he helped arrest of Maam

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Jamil after he was accused of shooting that man in

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:09.280
<v Speaker 2>West End Park William Miles, and then a year later

0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:12.560
<v Speaker 2>in ninety six. This was after Shahied was connected to

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:14.960
<v Speaker 2>at least three killings over the previous year and a half.

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Gant said he had contact with Shahied once a week,

0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:21.280
<v Speaker 2>and he had seen him in person two weeks earlier.

0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Gant was meeting with a killer on the regular. Atlanta

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:28.639
<v Speaker 2>police were looking into all the bodies piling up in

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.399
<v Speaker 2>the West End, and Shahid seemed to be telling the

0:28:31.400 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>cops that people other than himself were involved, possibly even

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:40.080
<v Speaker 2>saying that a Maam Jamil was calling the shots. By

0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:42.920
<v Speaker 2>around ninety six, local police knew that Shahied was at

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>least connected to multiple killings. A detective in the Atlanta

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Police Department was investigating, and he brought in Gant for

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>an interview. The detective wrote up a summary afterward. He

0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:57.520
<v Speaker 2>said that Gant appeared nervous. He did not volunteer information

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:02.280
<v Speaker 2>unless specifically asked in investigand how much he was paying Shahied,

0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 2>but Gan wouldn't say. When Gan asked which murders were

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>linked to Shahied, the detective said, all the homicides in

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 2>the West End area. Here's Rodney Brown again.

0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:22.480
<v Speaker 3>L beyond agent. The agent knew, maybe found out later on,

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 3>but he had to find out that boy was killing people.

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 2>He had to.

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 3>If you investigating Jamil, and I mean the West End

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 3>and all these boys coming up dead from the West End,

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:36.400
<v Speaker 3>what the fuck while we're investigate Now we say, okay,

0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 3>this guy got killed. This guy, Now the next question

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:42.840
<v Speaker 3>who killed him? So that would have led him back

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 3>to Shahid, Right, come on, man, that is just no,

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:48.560
<v Speaker 3>none of it really makes sense.

0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:50.680
<v Speaker 2>What if Shahied's telling them that Jamil is the one

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:52.400
<v Speaker 2>who's doing it, do you think they would believe.

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:55.440
<v Speaker 3>That that Jamil is committing to.

0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Miss Jamila is ordering it. And so this is you

0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:00.960
<v Speaker 2>talk about how Shahid's playing everybody. Maybe he was playing

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 2>them too, and he was.

0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:05.920
<v Speaker 3>That's a good fact. He deathinitely was telling him that.

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:10.880
<v Speaker 3>But still of them or how many of us would

0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:11.480
<v Speaker 3>they want.

0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.360
<v Speaker 2>To sacrifice to bust it?

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:16.760
<v Speaker 3>It ain't like they're selling bricks, man, We're dealing with

0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:19.560
<v Speaker 3>people's bodies. They want a drug deal?

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 2>How many of us, Rodney asked, would they be willing

0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:30.000
<v Speaker 2>to sacrifice to bust a man? Jamil to me, all

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:33.320
<v Speaker 2>this clearly says some human lives were dispensable in whatever

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 2>grand calculation the FEDS were making. Black lives troubled lives.

0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>At the time of the shootout involving the Fulton County

0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Sheriff's deputies in March of two thousand, Shahid was in

0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:49.480
<v Speaker 2>prison on a parole violation. After he got out, he

0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:56.200
<v Speaker 2>kept killing. In March of two thousand and two, he

0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>shot someone in the back of the head and killed them.

0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Then he killed another person later that year and the

0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 2>next year he was involved in at least two more murders.

0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and four, narcotics detectives targeting a drug

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 2>house found Shahed with guns and drugs. They arrested him

0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:16.080
<v Speaker 2>with him off the streets. Another man from the West

0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>End told law enforcement about at least one murder he

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:22.080
<v Speaker 2>knew Shahid was responsible for. An Atlanta police detective went

0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 2>to interview Shahed, and Shahid started confessing. By our count

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>he was involved in killing at least eleven people, but

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:34.480
<v Speaker 2>he allegedly killed many more. There was a story about

0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 2>his confession in Atlanta's biggest newspaper, the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 2>It had the following line, Police believed the death toll

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:48.040
<v Speaker 2>may be as high as fifty fifty bodies. Rodney thinks

0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:51.720
<v Speaker 2>the number is even higher. Shahid is now serving a

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 2>life sentence in prison. Finally, he tried to appeal his conviction,

0:31:57.440 --> 0:32:00.720
<v Speaker 2>arguing that the recorded confession shouldn't be admissible, but the

0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Georgia Supreme Court rejected his appeal. We couldn't get an

0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:07.160
<v Speaker 2>interview with Shahied, but we got this recording that someone

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:08.960
<v Speaker 2>made of him.

0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 3>When you look at that article, like I don't have

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 3>to deal with that article a lot of times.

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:14.080
<v Speaker 5>You know, I'm saying he's in here.

0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:15.920
<v Speaker 3>You got some niggas want to say I'm a rat.

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:18.000
<v Speaker 3>You know that. Ain't that Ain't that ain't delayed when

0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:20.000
<v Speaker 3>you want to be having any prison, know what I mean.

0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:23.520
<v Speaker 2>In the recording, Shahid doesn't deny that he killed anyone.

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.400
<v Speaker 2>He suggests that he confessed to make a point, basically

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 2>to brag about how many murders he committed. Shahid was

0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:32.720
<v Speaker 2>mad at the man who snitched on him to get

0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 2>a deal. I'm gonna keep awading with you, I said.

0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:38.360
<v Speaker 3>I look, so y'all, let y'all don't even lock these

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:39.840
<v Speaker 3>niggas up about one murder.

0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:43.360
<v Speaker 5>I tell you what I think about twenty murders? Do

0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:45.000
<v Speaker 5>you let the niggas out for one body?

0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 1>That?

0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Basically, Shahid said, if you left this other guy off

0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.280
<v Speaker 2>because he gave you information on one murder, I'll show

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 2>you I can give you information on way more than

0:32:57.240 --> 0:32:57.959
<v Speaker 2>just one murder.

0:32:58.120 --> 0:32:59.720
<v Speaker 3>When he comes to the west hand, man, I look

0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:02.520
<v Speaker 3>at it like split up with your man.

0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 5>It's like, you know, ain't nobody perfect?

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:06.080
<v Speaker 4>Bro?

0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:09.360
<v Speaker 6>You don't We all got skeletons When.

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:12.480
<v Speaker 2>It comes to the west end, Shahid said, we all

0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:17.680
<v Speaker 2>got skeletons. This one guy played a huge part in

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 2>who a mam Jamil came to be. In the eyes

0:33:19.440 --> 0:33:22.760
<v Speaker 2>of local and federal law enforcement built him up into

0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:26.959
<v Speaker 2>parts mobster and terrorists. It's impossible for me to separate

0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 2>fact from fiction here or again to really know why

0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 2>mam Jamil kept a guy like Shaheed around. But shouldn't

0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:35.520
<v Speaker 2>there have been limits to a man Jamil's policy of

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:37.800
<v Speaker 2>keeping the mass shed open for anyone to practice is

0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:41.000
<v Speaker 2>slam Limit's far short of turning a blind eye to

0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:45.600
<v Speaker 2>a serial killer. From where I stand, keeping Shahid around

0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 2>was either a severe miscalculation on the Mam Jamil's part,

0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:53.000
<v Speaker 2>or he was okay with the violence, maybe even endorsed it.

0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:57.120
<v Speaker 2>I do know that a Mam Jamil traded on fear.

0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Many people in the West End were scared of him.

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:02.959
<v Speaker 2>That's part of the way he brought the neighborhood under control.

0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 2>How he cleaned it up one of the accusations in

0:34:11.640 --> 0:34:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the synopsis of Western homicides I haven't told you about yet.

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:18.919
<v Speaker 2>It's a case that could be helpful in determining where

0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Shahid's stories end and the Maam Jamil's own actions begin.

0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:26.759
<v Speaker 2>The very first victim listed in the dossier was a

0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:30.040
<v Speaker 2>man whose name was Clive Hunter, though he also went

0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:33.600
<v Speaker 2>by a Muslim name. Clive served prison time with the

0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:36.319
<v Speaker 2>Maam Jamil in New York. By some accounts, he taught

0:34:36.320 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 2>a man Jamil slam after he converted, and a Maam

0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Jamil pledged loyalty to him, and Mam Jamil left prison

0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:49.239
<v Speaker 2>first moved to Atlanta and established the Weston MASSTJD. When

0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Clive got out later, he figured that Maschd was his

0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:55.120
<v Speaker 2>to take over since a Maam Jamil had pledged loyalty.

0:34:56.239 --> 0:34:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Long story short, A rivalry developed that ended in nineteen

0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:02.799
<v Speaker 2>eighty when Clive was shot to death by assailants who

0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:06.560
<v Speaker 2>were never identified. Some folks in the community thought of

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Maam Jimiale was behind it, and this was before Shahid

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:14.120
<v Speaker 2>ever got to town. It places a body at the

0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:25.520
<v Speaker 2>foundation of everything that came afterward. These are the names

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.520
<v Speaker 2>of the people in the West End who lost their lives,

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:35.760
<v Speaker 2>the ones we know about Kennedy Keller, Clive Hunter, James Farrell,

0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Tommy Jones, Quantavius Kelly, Carlon Wilson, Jamie Lee, James, Sammy

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Lee Sawyer, Roderick Fulton, Damon Brown, Clarence Poon, Andre Lane,

0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Jacqueline Johnson, Marlins, Antonio Wyatt, James, Gary Jones, Cornelius, James Nelson,

0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Perry Miller, Tommy Warren, Corey Dunn, Corey Whitehead, Shannon Frasier,

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:28.200
<v Speaker 2>and Calvin Battle. Many people Rodney knew from the West

0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:31.239
<v Speaker 2>End were killed over about a decade, most of them

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:34.239
<v Speaker 2>by Shahid ab du Rahman, a man who was paid

0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:38.000
<v Speaker 2>by the federal government. Remember, someone in the Atlanta Police

0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Department said Shahid may have killed as many as fifty people.

0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:44.520
<v Speaker 2>That would rank him along the top three most prolific

0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:50.160
<v Speaker 2>known serial killers in modern American history. Rodney has become

0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:53.719
<v Speaker 2>obsessed with all these cases. He wrote a book from

0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:56.719
<v Speaker 2>the West End to Loyal Pakistan. He called it about

0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Muslims moving into the neighborhood, and he's about to publish

0:36:59.920 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 2>the sequel, looking more closely at Shahida. He's working on

0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:06.560
<v Speaker 2>a documentary too. But the murder that Rodney seems to

0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:08.400
<v Speaker 2>think about the most is the one of his partner,

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Lee Sawyer.

0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Me and Lee was like brothers, the best of brothers.

0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:17.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we was.

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 3>Lee was a wild guy. He was a guy. H

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 3>He's the hardest guy. He wasn't he wasn't afraid of anything,

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:26.880
<v Speaker 3>and that's kind of dangerous, you know. But he was

0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:32.000
<v Speaker 3>the coolest person, give you anything, real good host, a

0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:36.520
<v Speaker 3>ladies man, you know, you get him mad. He was

0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:40.120
<v Speaker 3>just he he could beat you to death with his hand.

0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:44.360
<v Speaker 3>He was that type of guy. But he was everybody.

0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:46.719
<v Speaker 3>If you ask anybody else, they'll say he was a

0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 3>night always smile. That's how I say. He was always

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:51.160
<v Speaker 3>big smile.

0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Lee's mom visits Rodney sometimes.

0:37:55.120 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 3>And with her she she ain't never gonna recover from it.

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:03.880
<v Speaker 2>There are mothers and fathers and children connected to all

0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:06.719
<v Speaker 2>the people killed in the West End, and Rodney thinks

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:07.440
<v Speaker 2>about them.

0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:10.279
<v Speaker 3>People that was in charge. They need an answer to

0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:13.560
<v Speaker 3>these people. The victim they need answer to. It's a

0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:17.160
<v Speaker 3>victim impact behind this. They need some answers man, because

0:38:17.160 --> 0:38:20.799
<v Speaker 3>it is too much. It's just it's so much, and

0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:23.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm just stretching the surface on this man.

0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Maybe most of all, Rodney wants more attention on the

0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 2>whole mess.

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 3>That ain't news. I think it's ridiculous. I I just

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:38.480
<v Speaker 3>look at it like every day, like if this ain't

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.759
<v Speaker 3>world news, what is what we're watching now?

0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, we tried our best to put Rodney's questions

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:51.000
<v Speaker 2>in our questions to the people in charge. I'll start

0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:54.759
<v Speaker 2>at the bottom. The Atlanta detective who investigated some of

0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:57.320
<v Speaker 2>the killings in the mid nineties, he did an agree

0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 2>to an interview. Really, it seems like he did his

0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:04.080
<v Speaker 2>best to make something happen with these cases. He interviewed

0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the FBI agent Agan, and he took the evidence he

0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:08.600
<v Speaker 2>had to prosecutors.

0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:13.280
<v Speaker 6>I did have presented to me a collection of investigations

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:14.440
<v Speaker 6>into these deaths.

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:19.120
<v Speaker 2>When Robert McBurney, the prosecutor, was with the Fulton County DA,

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.600
<v Speaker 2>he reviewed some materials about the killing of drug dealers

0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:24.000
<v Speaker 2>in the West End. It was years before he was

0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:25.800
<v Speaker 2>assigned to a man Jamial's murder trial.

0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:30.719
<v Speaker 6>Some leads and theories as to how they might be

0:39:30.760 --> 0:39:34.479
<v Speaker 6>connected and who might connect them, but it never got

0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:37.480
<v Speaker 6>to the level where I or anyone I talked with,

0:39:37.640 --> 0:39:40.879
<v Speaker 6>was comfortable saying, that's a case we could bring get

0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:42.080
<v Speaker 6>past a grand jury.

0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:43.320
<v Speaker 2>That's less difficult.

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:47.320
<v Speaker 6>But ultimately, were we confident that we could prove something

0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:49.840
<v Speaker 6>beyond a reasonable doubt. If you don't have that confidence,

0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:52.920
<v Speaker 6>you really shouldn't then say, great, we're going to indict you. Anyway,

0:39:53.480 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 6>there was nothing. There was zero on the forensic side.

0:39:57.200 --> 0:40:01.040
<v Speaker 6>But there were people who said things, but not necessarily

0:40:01.080 --> 0:40:03.040
<v Speaker 6>people who would come to court to say these things.

0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Maybe Shahid was good at killing people and not getting caught.

0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:12.160
<v Speaker 2>That seems legit, And it's not mcburnie's job or the

0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 2>job of other prosecutors to gather evidence for a case.

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:21.399
<v Speaker 2>Still McBurnie or other prosecutors the DA, maybe they could

0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:24.120
<v Speaker 2>have pushed for more attention within law enforcement on these murders.

0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:27.279
<v Speaker 2>We know there were meetings, but we don't see any

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:29.719
<v Speaker 2>evidence of an elevated level of concern like you might

0:40:29.800 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 2>expect for a potential serial killer on the loose. On

0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:38.240
<v Speaker 2>the federal side of things, let's consider the biggest potential

0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:41.680
<v Speaker 2>allegation against AmAm Jamil during the nineties, that he was

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:46.239
<v Speaker 2>an the Islamic terrorist. Again, to be clear here, we

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 2>know that AmAm Jamil has some connections with Muslim leaders abroad,

0:40:49.560 --> 0:40:52.320
<v Speaker 2>but we have seen no evidence of any terrorist activity.

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.000
<v Speaker 2>But for argument's sake, let's say the FBI knew something

0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:59.360
<v Speaker 2>that we don't know. Maybe that would in their minds

0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:03.480
<v Speaker 2>justifies I'm going to say radical steps by the federal government,

0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:07.000
<v Speaker 2>like using a murderer as an informant. Maybe they would

0:41:07.000 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 2>consider it worth it to allow some harm in order

0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:12.120
<v Speaker 2>to prevent even greater harm, like a big terrorist attack

0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:16.480
<v Speaker 2>or something. But when I asked Bernie about this, who

0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:18.680
<v Speaker 2>by the way, was hired as a federal prosecutor after

0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 2>AmAm Dmil's trial, he said, building a case based on

0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 2>information from a guy like Shaheed u dur Rahman, it

0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:26.719
<v Speaker 2>would have been shoddy police work.

0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:32.000
<v Speaker 6>This was an area and a climate and a community

0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 6>where it advanced people's interests to say they were involved

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:38.640
<v Speaker 6>or they weren't. They did these things and they didn't.

0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:42.560
<v Speaker 6>But the scenario you described would be yet another reason

0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:46.399
<v Speaker 6>why I think it didn't make sense to if that's

0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:48.279
<v Speaker 6>going to be your source of information. Is like one

0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:50.440
<v Speaker 6>of these mob cases where yeah, I killed twenty people,

0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:52.640
<v Speaker 6>but let me tell you who the real bad guy is. Well,

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.480
<v Speaker 6>what do you mean the fact.

0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:56.280
<v Speaker 2>That you pulled the trigger?

0:41:56.520 --> 0:41:59.719
<v Speaker 6>Who where's your credibility? Even if your answer is well,

0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:02.640
<v Speaker 6>but did it on the direction of so and so,

0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:08.680
<v Speaker 6>I do know that federal agents would not be permitted

0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:13.160
<v Speaker 6>to continue to use a source if that source engaged

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:17.160
<v Speaker 6>in unauthorized activity, and certainly killing someone would be unauthorized.

0:42:17.239 --> 0:42:19.920
<v Speaker 6>And certainly, had there been any evidence that he did

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 6>these things, not only would he be pursued and prosecuted,

0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:27.160
<v Speaker 6>but there would have been no more relationship between him

0:42:27.239 --> 0:42:28.440
<v Speaker 6>and his handlers.

0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Right. But in either case, if he did these things

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:34.960
<v Speaker 2>while on informant, that would be a violation of some sort.

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:38.080
<v Speaker 6>Oh, I'd agree, it's a violation of the law.

0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:40.280
<v Speaker 2>He's a murderer, and.

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:47.239
<v Speaker 6>I am confident that if a federal handler had any

0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:51.200
<v Speaker 6>inkling that abdur Rockman was doing anything along the lines

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:54.879
<v Speaker 6>of what you're describing and what he's describing, that would

0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 6>have been the end of it for Abdurachman. He'd be

0:42:56.760 --> 0:42:58.640
<v Speaker 6>off the streets and in custody.

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:04.879
<v Speaker 2>So baced on mcburnie's criteria here, I think it's fair

0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:08.120
<v Speaker 2>to say the FBI messed up, maybe even broke its

0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:12.280
<v Speaker 2>own rules for the law in the years after Gant

0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:14.839
<v Speaker 2>helped Shahid get out of prison, he should have known

0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:19.279
<v Speaker 2>that Shahied was killing people. Sure, maybe it was more

0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:21.719
<v Speaker 2>of a problem for Atlanta police to handle. It was

0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:25.240
<v Speaker 2>their jurisdiction. Maybe this is an issue of failed oversight

0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:28.239
<v Speaker 2>in communication, but we know Gant was at least still

0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.399
<v Speaker 2>close to an investigation of a man, Jamil. How could

0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:33.600
<v Speaker 2>all these killings in the same neighborhood not come up?

0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Hi looking for a mister Gant. Yeah, my name is

0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:46.320
<v Speaker 2>Mostly's secret. I'm here with Johnny Coffin. We're producers working

0:43:46.360 --> 0:43:48.280
<v Speaker 2>on a podcast about Jamille Alami.

0:43:52.480 --> 0:43:56.279
<v Speaker 4>Okay, are you familiar with him?

0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:02.640
<v Speaker 2>All we got from Gant through the door of his

0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:06.560
<v Speaker 2>apartment was a not interested and a thank you. We

0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:09.680
<v Speaker 2>left him a letter, but we never heard back. We

0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:12.759
<v Speaker 2>also emailed the FBI a list of questions. Nothing back

0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:17.000
<v Speaker 2>from them either. Despite all the death and destruction, the

0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.400
<v Speaker 2>FBI still didn't make a case against a man Jamil,

0:44:20.520 --> 0:44:22.839
<v Speaker 2>but the bureau persisted in the West End even after

0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:25.879
<v Speaker 2>Shahid was locked up in the late nineties. They had

0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:29.040
<v Speaker 2>other informants there and they were surveilling the mass right

0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.880
<v Speaker 2>up to the time of the shootout, and so it

0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:34.360
<v Speaker 2>seems possible on the night of March sixteen to two thousand,

0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:39.080
<v Speaker 2>someone with the FBI, maybe an informant, maybe an agent,

0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:50.560
<v Speaker 2>would end up with blood on their hands too. He

0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:55.920
<v Speaker 2>was very irritable and upset about what was going on,

0:44:56.880 --> 0:45:03.120
<v Speaker 2>and I had never seen him like that before that

0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:18.279
<v Speaker 2>on the next and final episode of Radical. Radical is

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:22.279
<v Speaker 2>a production of Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart Podcasts.

0:45:23.080 --> 0:45:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Radical was reported and written by Johnny Kaufman and me

0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Mossey's Secret Johnny Kaufman is our senior producer. Sheba Joseph

0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:35.240
<v Speaker 2>is our associate producer. Editing by Eric Benson. Johnny Kaufman,

0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Emily Martinez and Matt Cher. Fact checking by Sophie Hurwitz,

0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Kayln Lynch and Layla Dos. Original music by Kyle Murdoch

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and by Ray Murray of Organized Noise. Sound design and

0:45:47.600 --> 0:45:51.200
<v Speaker 2>mixing by Kevin Seaman. Recording by Ewan Le trem Ewen

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:56.360
<v Speaker 2>and Sheba Joseph. Campside Media's operations team is Doug Slaywan,

0:45:56.760 --> 0:46:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Ashley Warren, Alijah Papes, Destiny Dingle, and Sabina Mera. The

0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:06.960
<v Speaker 2>executive producers at Campside Media are Josh Dean Vanessa, Gregoriatis,

0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Adam Hoff, and Matt Cher. For Tenderfoot TV, executive producers

0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 2>are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. The executive producers at

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:20.440
<v Speaker 2>iHeart Podcasts are Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, with additional

0:46:20.440 --> 0:46:21.640
<v Speaker 2>support from Trevor Young,