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Speaker 1: All Zone Media. Hello podcast fans, Me James and my

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Speaker 1: friend Scherene and also Cherene's cat Bunny.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, she is here. She is here and ready

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Speaker 2: to pard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. She loves to cast a pod and so do we. Today, Serene,

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Speaker 1: we have the great pleasure of talking about the border again,

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Speaker 1: which is something I talk about a lot, something that

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Speaker 1: politicians also talk about a lot. Today, what I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about is the difference between Kamala Harris and

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump when it comes to the border, because shockingly,

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of crap reporting on her border stance.

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Speaker 1: There has been some good reporting, and like, there's always

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Speaker 1: going to be right wing disinformation anytime you talk about

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Speaker 1: the border.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Just today, Border Patrol released video of a woman falling

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Speaker 1: to her death from the border wall. Border Patrol agents

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Speaker 1: stood there for twenty four minutes watching her struggle. There

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Speaker 1: was a ladder, and they decided to watch her struggle

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Speaker 1: until she died as she fell, and then she died

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Speaker 1: well watching this like objectively tragic thing, right, Like, when

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Speaker 1: we think about how we get to fascism, we get

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Speaker 1: to fascism when my taxes pay people to stand there

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Speaker 1: and watch a woman die rather than do a single

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Speaker 1: thing to help her, and then a bunch of fuck

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Speaker 1: wits on the internet immediately start excusing this like it's

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Speaker 1: it's so predictable that it was going to happen, And

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Speaker 1: I'm just once again disgusted by the whole fucking apparatus

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Speaker 1: sit as the border. I guess, so I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the things that have changed, right, and I

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Speaker 1: want to talk. We'll sort of start by outlining who

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Speaker 1: Kamale is with respect to the aborder. So everything she

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Speaker 1: took over from Biden, Kamala has been sort of offering

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Speaker 1: more platitudes than specifics, right, Like her campaign is mostly

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Speaker 1: based on vibes. Like I went to her campaign website

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Speaker 1: to see what her stances were on the border, it

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Speaker 1: is not mentioned. I think that's notable. But recently, in

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Speaker 1: some speeches she did offer some concrete ideas of what

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Speaker 1: her border policy might look like. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: start with her campaign ad. This ad incidentally opens with

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Speaker 1: what I'm pretty sure is a drone shot from Campo, California.

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Speaker 1: I've taken pictures in reverse of that shot hundreds of times.

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Speaker 3: You can find them on my website.

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Speaker 1: Slate bought some of them off me maybe a month

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Speaker 1: or two ago, No, not even like maybe maybe two

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Speaker 1: or three weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 1: I watched a mother breastfeed her five month old child,

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Speaker 1: maybe a couple of miles from there. It was one

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Speaker 1: hundred and five degrees. We were able to give them water.

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Speaker 1: I saw someone in severe hypothermia right very hot. We

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Speaker 1: were able to call them off. I spoke to a

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Speaker 1: Sudanese family who were really struggling with making this long walk.

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Speaker 1: They have to make out there. None of that shit

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Speaker 1: made it into the Kamela Border advert, right, of course not.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just going to play this advert for you, Shulan.

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Speaker 3: On the border. The choice is simple.

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Speaker 4: Kamala Harris supports increasing the number of border patrol agents.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump blocked a bill to increase the number of

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Speaker 4: border patrol agents. Kamala Harris supports investing in new technology

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Speaker 4: to block fetanyl from entering the country. Donald Trump blocked

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Speaker 4: funding for technology to block fentanyl from entering the country.

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Speaker 4: Kamala Harris supports spending more money to stop human traffickers.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump blocked money to stop human traffickers. Kamala Harris

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Speaker 4: prosecuted trains national gang members and got them sentenced to prison.

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Speaker 4: Trump is trying to avoid being sentenced to prison. There's

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Speaker 4: two choices in this election, the one who will fix

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Speaker 4: our broken integration system and the one who's trying to

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Speaker 4: stop her.

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Speaker 2: A cop or a clown? Who should we vote for president?

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Speaker 3: And that's exactly it, right.

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Speaker 1: She's leaning really heavily on this, like I am a

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Speaker 1: cop thing and like we have spent and continue to

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Speaker 1: spend billions of dollars on board of cops.

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Speaker 3: That is not the fucking solution. It will be the solution.

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Speaker 1: We cannot make this giant border so full of cops

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Speaker 1: that it's impossible for people to cross it.

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Speaker 3: People will still cross.

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Speaker 1: It because cops ain't going to go to the middle

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Speaker 1: of the desert, because, you know, be inherent in being

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Speaker 1: a cop is also being lazy. So I want to

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Speaker 1: play some stuff that she said in Atlanta this week.

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Speaker 2: So here is my pledge to you. As president.

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Speaker 5: I will bring back the border security bill that Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump killed and I will sign.

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Speaker 2: It into law.

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Speaker 5: And so Donald Trump, what real leadership looks like?

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Speaker 2: Oh fuck off?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm going to subject you to some Carmela

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Speaker 1: and some Trump today.

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Speaker 2: That's okay. I signed up for this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So here's another one of her, and this I

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Speaker 1: think is really telling, right where she is bragging about

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Speaker 1: the most conservative Republican supporting her bill.

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump, on the other hand, he's been talking a

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Speaker 5: big game about securing our border, but he does not

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Speaker 5: walk the walk, or as my friend Quavo would say,

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Speaker 5: he does not walk it like he talks it. Where

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Speaker 5: if so, Look, our administration worked on the most significant

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Speaker 5: border security bill in decades. Some of the most conservative

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Speaker 5: Republicans in Washington, d C. Supported the bill. Even the

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Speaker 5: Border Patrol endorsed it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to read some transcription that speech as well.

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Speaker 1: Just this is pretty much the only point of data

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Speaker 1: we have on her proposed border policy. So we're going

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Speaker 1: heavy on this speech that she gave in at my

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Speaker 1: at a rally.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: I went after transnational gangs, drug cartails, and human traffickers

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Speaker 1: that came into our country legally. I prosecuted them in

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Speaker 1: case after case, and I won, Harris said. Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, has been talking a big game

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Speaker 1: about securing our border, but he does not walk the walk.

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Speaker 1: That's what you just heard, right, And then she goes

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Speaker 1: on to reference Quavo, which is cool and normal. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about that leadership, and let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: bill she's proposing.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: This is a bipartisan bill that was proposed last year

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Speaker 1: and that didn't succeed. Right, it's the one that Democrats

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Speaker 1: are making a big fuss about. Republicans getting the border bill.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the only good things they've ever done, actually,

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Speaker 1: because it represented a massive right wood swing from where

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Speaker 1: Democrats have previously been on immigration. In the bill, DHS

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Speaker 1: could close the border if border patrol encountered four thousand

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Speaker 1: or more migrants on average over a seven day period.

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Speaker 1: The border would then have to be shut down if

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Speaker 1: encounters reached a seven day average of five thousand, or

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Speaker 1: if they exceeded five hundred in a single day.

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Speaker 2: Does that happen on these numbers like realistic?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Well, a really important thing to remember when we talk

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Speaker 1: about these numbers is did you notice that it was

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Speaker 1: phrases encounters, not people. So this is a thing that

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Speaker 1: is apparently impossible if you write for a fucking broad

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Speaker 1: cheat corporate legacy newspaper to understand an encounter does not

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Speaker 1: represent a unique individual. Border patrol do not give us

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Speaker 1: data on unique individuals. They give us data on encounters.

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Speaker 1: And this is important because under title forty two, which

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Speaker 1: I made a series about last year that you can

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Speaker 1: listen to, I would like it if you did, people

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Speaker 1: can be returned to Mexico. And as you'll see, and

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Speaker 1: under this proposal, people can be returned to Mexico and

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Speaker 1: then they will try and come back because most of

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Speaker 1: the people coming to our border are not from Mexico,

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Speaker 1: nor do they have roots in Mexico, nor can they

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Speaker 1: be safe in Mexico. So they will try and come back,

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Speaker 1: and they will try and come back in a different place,

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Speaker 1: in a more remote place, and that will result in

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Speaker 1: a higher risk to their lives making that journey. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: eighty five hundred individuals across the whole border doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: to have them five hundred people, but yes, those numbers

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Speaker 1: are reachable.

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Speaker 2: That's just so, that's so disingenuous to word it that way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Border Patrol just had, like I don't know, they

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Speaker 1: had so much success with doing this under title forty two,

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Speaker 1: Like we're flooded with migrants and like I've spoken to

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Speaker 1: people who have tried seven times to cross. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's extremely disingenuous, and I think we're going to get

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Speaker 1: onto this. But this is a debate about the border

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Speaker 1: happening by people who never go to the border and

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Speaker 1: don't understand what it's like, both in the media and

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Speaker 1: in politics.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that is a problem.

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Speaker 1: So when it's closed, quote unquote, now, we can't close

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Speaker 1: the border, right like a physically we cannot be We're

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Speaker 1: not going to close the border and be like, Okay, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: no tomatoes, Okay, no tourists can come into Orlando now,

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Speaker 1: right that that's not what it's about.

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Speaker 3: It is open to.

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Speaker 1: Capital and is open to wealthy people. All we're doing

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Speaker 1: is it to the people who most need a help,

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Speaker 1: that being people seeking asylum. Right, So, when it's quote

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Speaker 1: unquote closed, they would still process fourteen hundred migrants through

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Speaker 1: ports of entry. That would presumably be people arriving using

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Speaker 1: CBP one, which is a fatally flawed app which doesn't

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Speaker 1: work for black folks, which has been hacked. All the

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Speaker 1: appointments are sold booked up month in advance. You can

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Speaker 1: only use it north of Mexico City. It's a complete mess.

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Speaker 1: Every single migrant I have encountered has tried to use

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Speaker 1: CBP one.

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Speaker 3: And given up.

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Speaker 1: It's not even available in that many languages, right, I

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Speaker 1: think it's English, Spanish and Haitian creole right now, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's ludicrous to suggest that this is accessible, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work very well on Samsung phones. I have

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Speaker 1: a pra a foil. I guess a foyer out to

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Speaker 1: CBP about that. But you know, maybe in six years,

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Speaker 1: after like several court cases, I'll get it back. But

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Speaker 1: I know that people are buying iPhones migrant advocates both

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Speaker 1: in Mecha Goo City and north of there, to allow

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Speaker 1: migrants to access the app. They're trying to help them

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Speaker 1: overcome these hurdles, right, but like, fucking come on, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've got the entire US government here and and it's

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Speaker 1: my friends trying to get five bucks from from you

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Speaker 1: know whoever to buy an iPhone so migrants can share it,

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Speaker 1: Like it's obscene.

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Speaker 3: Only unaccompanied miners.

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Speaker 1: Would be processed if they entered between ports of entry, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's people under the age of eighteen without their folks,

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Speaker 1: anyone who tried to cross between ports of entries. So

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Speaker 1: port of entry is when you cross the border with

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Speaker 1: your passport and you go through an office that support

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Speaker 1: of entry. Right, So if you cross in another fashion

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Speaker 1: over a river, over a wall, around a wall, under

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Speaker 1: a wall, through a wall, just across the desert, weare

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Speaker 1: there isn't a wall that's between ports of entries. If

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Speaker 1: anyone tries two or more times, then during a border emergency,

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Speaker 1: they will be barred from the United States for a period.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a year.

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Speaker 1: I should note that this bill didn't pass, but Biden

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Speaker 1: did write an executive order setting an arbitrary cap at

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Speaker 1: twenty five hundred encounters per day, which you will notice

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Speaker 1: is lower. And it removes the requirement that border patrol

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Speaker 1: ask migrants if they fear persecution. So this is really important.

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Speaker 1: It's called a shout test. And the difference here is

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Speaker 1: between me saying and ensuring you've just come across the border,

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Speaker 1: are you here because you fear persecution? Can you not

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Speaker 1: safely go home? And me just saying get in the

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Speaker 1: fucking van, and you having to articulate that you fear persecution? Right,

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Speaker 1: Which is that requires them to know that they have

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Speaker 1: to articulate it. It requires them to be able to

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Speaker 1: articulate it in a language it's intelligible to the officer

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Speaker 1: or whoever's interviewing them. Right, it's a much higher barrier.

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Speaker 1: And in both cases, right, you could have the same

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Speaker 1: person and they could be rejected because they didn't pass

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Speaker 1: this so called shout test.

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Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: It's a really bullshit workaround for someone who is clearly

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Speaker 1: eligible for asylum.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like any good faith actor wants to find

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Speaker 1: out if that person is going to be persecuted when

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Speaker 1: they go home. And so moving to a shout test,

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Speaker 1: like you are consciously saying some people were going to

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Speaker 1: send home they will fucking die, or they will be tortured,

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Speaker 1: or they will face persecution of other means, right, because

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Speaker 1: they didn't articulate in the right words their fear of persecution.

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Speaker 1: And it's just there is not a good faith argument

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Speaker 1: for this. It's just get numbers down at the cost

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Speaker 1: of human suffering. So in this case, right, I have

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Speaker 1: met migrants with pretty rock SOIDID claims. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to go into the details of their cases too much.

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Speaker 1: I will in the future, but like you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: out at the border a lot, and I'm out in

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Speaker 1: the back country there a lot, and I try and

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Speaker 1: help people whenever I can. I talk to them about

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Speaker 1: their claims, and I'm not going to ask someone to

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Speaker 1: justify their trauma to me with seventeen documents, right, But

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Speaker 1: some of them have shown me things which I do

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Speaker 1: believe would would be a very cast iron asylum claim,

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Speaker 1: and they seem to be since Biden's executive order, just

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Speaker 1: getting booted back across the border. So he kind of

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Speaker 1: worked around that part of the bill failing. But let's

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Speaker 1: look at what else is in it. So if the

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Speaker 1: bill that Harris is saying she will reintroduce, of course

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Speaker 1: she herself can't, right, it's a legislative act or senator

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Speaker 1: or how over the House would The bill would limit

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Speaker 1: border closures to two hundred and seventy days, two hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty five days, and one hundred and eighty days

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Speaker 1: for the first three years, which no, there's no limit

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Speaker 1: in the Biden executive order.

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Speaker 3: So I guess that's better. I guess.

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Speaker 1: I mean, fucking two hundred and seventy days when you

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Speaker 1: can't claim asylum, that's a lot of days. There's also

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Speaker 1: funding a lot of funding from more border patrol agents,

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Speaker 1: of course, more asylum officers, as well as more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred judges. We do need to move people through

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Speaker 1: the immigration system. But a lot more pressingly, we need

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Speaker 1: to open legal passways that are not walking across the

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Speaker 1: desert and passing a shout test. It would mandate detaining

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Speaker 1: migrants if they try to enter the US outside of

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Speaker 1: ports of entry, depending their asylum claim. So this is

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Speaker 1: really big. Actually, it's going to result in a massive

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Speaker 1: increase in the amount of asylum detention beds we need.

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Speaker 1: The bill contains funding for another ten thousand more beds,

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Speaker 1: will probably end up needing more than that. But all

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Speaker 1: of these beds are not in state run facilities, right,

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Speaker 1: They're in private facilities. ICE coordinates with it's cour civic.

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Speaker 1: It's people who when Biden first came into office, he

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Speaker 1: wrote he wrote an executive order about getting rid of

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Speaker 1: private prisons. These are the private prisons. This is how

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Speaker 1: we reallocated money to those same people doing this terrible thing, right,

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Speaker 1: which is locking people up for profit. I've heard terrible

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Speaker 1: stories about the conditions in some of these detention centers.

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Speaker 1: And this is the guy who ran on and bragged

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Speaker 1: about closing down private prisons, sending more money to private

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Speaker 1: prisons just for migrants dot citizens because apparently their rights

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Speaker 1: don't matter. As much that their lives don't matter as

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Speaker 1: much talking of things that don't matter, Sharen, should we

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Speaker 1: take an at break.

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Speaker 3: That was beautiful, James, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So we're back, and I want to talk about what

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Speaker 1: Harris has done as VP, which is they put her

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Speaker 1: on this root causes beat right, what she's supposed to

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Speaker 1: go after, the root causes of migration. So I want

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Speaker 1: to start with this message, as she sent to the

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Speaker 1: people of Guatemala.

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Speaker 5: I want to be clear to folks in this region

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Speaker 5: who are thinking about making that dangerous track to the

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Speaker 5: United States Mexico border, do not come.

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Speaker 3: Do not come.

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Speaker 5: The United States will continue to enforce our laws and

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Speaker 5: secure our border. They are legal methods by which migration

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Speaker 5: can and should occur, but we, as one of our priorities,

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Speaker 5: will discourage illegal migration. And I believe if you come

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Speaker 5: to our border, you will be turned back.

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Speaker 2: Do not come. Yeah, I think I've seen that before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. She took a lot of shit for that one,

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Speaker 3: rightly understandably.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not the only time to bide administration

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Speaker 1: said this. By the way, they were tweeting, do not

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Speaker 1: come in and creole in twenty twenty one, Well from

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Speaker 1: the Embassy of the United States in eighty This has

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Speaker 1: been their message and continues to be their message.

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Speaker 7: Now to the ongoing crisis down at the southern.

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Speaker 6: Border, the focus of Vice President Kamala Harris's first overseas

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Speaker 6: trip since taking office.

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Speaker 8: She had to Mexico today after spending yesterday in Guatemala,

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Speaker 8: where she announced several initiatives and delivered a message to

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Speaker 8: potential migrants there, do not come to the United States.

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Speaker 8: The Vice President also sat down exclusively with the NBC's

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Speaker 8: Lester Hoole, who began by asking her about that warning.

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Speaker 6: In the news conference here in Guatemala City. You had

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Speaker 6: a message for would be migrants, don't come. Why should

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Speaker 6: they believe you when they know that people are getting in.

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Speaker 5: I've been working on this issue for a very long time,

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Speaker 5: and the kind of violence and danger that is associated

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Speaker 5: with that track, especially when we're talking about from Guatemala

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Speaker 5: through Mexico to the United States, it's extremely dangerous. We

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Speaker 5: are looking at a situation where people are fleeing because

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Speaker 5: of hunger, because of the hurricanes, because of the pandemic.

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Speaker 5: So the reason I am here is to address those issues.

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Speaker 5: Knowing that the people who are here for generations. They

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Speaker 5: want to stay, they don't want to leave, but they

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Speaker 5: need opportunity, they need assistance, they need support.

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Speaker 6: Americans don't see a lot of them on a daily basis.

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Speaker 6: What they do see it at their own border. Children

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Speaker 6: being lowered over offences, children coming in with phone numbers

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Speaker 6: stenciled on their hand. And so the question has come up,

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Speaker 6: and you heard it here and you'll hear it again.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure it's why not visit the border? Why not

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Speaker 6: see what Americans are seeing in this crisis.

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Speaker 5: Well, we are going to the boarder. We have to

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Speaker 5: deal with what's happening at the border. There's no question

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Speaker 5: about that. That's not a debatable point. But we have

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Speaker 5: to understand that there's a reason people are arriving at

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Speaker 5: our border and ask what is that reason, and then

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Speaker 5: identify the problem can fix it.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So all of this was while the Biden administration continued

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Speaker 1: to defend and force Title forty two. If people haven't

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Speaker 1: listened to the series that made it about Title forty two,

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Speaker 1: and I've said that twice, but that's like two three

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Speaker 1: hours of me explaining Title forty two, So that would

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Speaker 1: explain it better than a cand of twenty seconds here.

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Speaker 1: Title forty two is a public health law, and the

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Speaker 1: idea of Title forty two is to prevent people with

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Speaker 1: tuberculosis coming into the United States. An element of Title

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Speaker 1: forty two of the United States Code it contains this.

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Speaker 1: The idea was never to use it as a de

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Speaker 1: facto block on asylum, which is what the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: did for a year and the Biden administration did for

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Speaker 1: nearly three years.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 1: The Bidens registration did it for much much longer. This

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Speaker 1: ended in May of twenty twenty three, and it was used.

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Speaker 1: They called it catch and release, right, it was used

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Speaker 1: to bounce people straight back. As we spoke about before

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Speaker 1: catch and release.

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Speaker 2: It's like you're literally like an animal practice, you know, like.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, Like these people are fucking fish, and I

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Speaker 1: don't like doing that to fish. Shouldn't stress out of fish.

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Speaker 1: It's just vibing down there, ruin its day. So later

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Speaker 1: in that same interview, she was very defensive about her

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Speaker 1: failing to visit the border. But I think there are

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Speaker 1: very reasonable questions. Sometimes these criticisms are used in bad

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Speaker 1: faith by Republicans, So is everything right? It doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that we shouldn't talk about it.

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Speaker 3: We should.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see a single elected official from the Democrat Party.

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Speaker 1: I guess fucking Jim Desmond turned up, but I wish

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't. He turned up, told lies about who paid

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Speaker 1: for the aid, and then forced his in turn to

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Speaker 1: apologize for it when a bunch of people turned up

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Speaker 1: at his office.

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Speaker 3: Really great integrity.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see a single Democrat for the months that

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Speaker 1: border patrol held thousands of people in open air attention,

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Speaker 1: without food, water, or shelter, and for the months of

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Speaker 1: my friends and I took care of them instead. What

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Speaker 1: Harris was doing was trying to connect business leaders with

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Speaker 1: economies in Central America to quote create jobs.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: She has some success with a Japanese car factor in

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Speaker 1: Guatemala and a Swiss coffee processor buying more beans and

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Speaker 1: committing to more coffee purchases.

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Speaker 3: Right. But this shit does not work and it has

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Speaker 3: never worked.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, my position on global economics is not the same

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Speaker 1: as hers. But we can't trickle down the causes of migration.

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Speaker 1: We can't do this with like a rising tide levels

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Speaker 1: or boats GDP stuff. Even if we do buy this

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Speaker 1: kind of freakonomics tier bullshit, it doesn't matter because the

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Speaker 1: change is going to take decades to come. Right, you

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Speaker 1: can't just just change a national economy. Change deals with unemployment,

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Speaker 1: with violence, with state violence, with nonstate violence overnight. And

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Speaker 1: it's very likely that the pace of climate change alone

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Speaker 1: will outstrip any benefits that these programs provide. Right, because

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Speaker 1: we are seeing increasingly people coming from countries that are

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Speaker 1: the most impacted by climate change to countries like the

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Speaker 1: United States, one of the countries that has made the

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Speaker 1: largest contribution to the climate change.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: But this idea of like trickle down economics to stop migration,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't address the issue that most of the migrants

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Speaker 1: are no longer coming from the places she's going, Right,

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Speaker 1: So she's worked pretty extensively in the Northern Triangle, Guatemala, Hondordas,

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Speaker 1: in El Salvador. These are places which sent a lot

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Speaker 1: of migrants, may be in the earlier Barbera administration, but

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Speaker 1: that's not the case anymore. Right, Those are not typically

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Speaker 1: places I see migrants from, Right, I see migrants from Venezuela,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to get a lot more of those.

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Speaker 1: I see migrants from Turkey, many of them, but not

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Speaker 1: all of them.

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Speaker 3: Kurdish.

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Speaker 1: I see migrants from North Africa. I see migrants from

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Speaker 1: the Sahel, I see migrants from India. I don't particularly

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Speaker 1: see people from the Northern Triangle. So the idea that

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Speaker 1: like lifting the economy in the Northern Triangle is going

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Speaker 1: to move the needle. It's just not even if we

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Speaker 1: buy the idea that it's possible, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: it is. So that's let's take a look at Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: I guess I should give people a trigger warning. I'm

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Speaker 1: only going to include a little bit of Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: audio here, but yeah, you can tap the skiit.

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Speaker 3: Button if you don't want to hear Donald Trump talking.

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Speaker 1: So Donald Trump's policies largely are in response to things

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Speaker 1: that are not real or proposing things that the president

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Speaker 1: or Congress cannot do, or that the president cannot do

443
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: without the.

444
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 3: Support of Congress.

445
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: So his first thing is talking about ending birthright citizenship.

446
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: This is not a thing that he can do by

447
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: executive order. Right, this is an amendment to the Constitution

448
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 1: that requires an amendment to the Constitution to party back. Now,

449
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: you can mend the constitution, but I don't think you'd

450
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: ever get support for ending birth right citizenship.

451
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: Right.

452
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: This has been the case since aster the Civil War,

453
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 1: and it exists to stop people disenfranchising the children of

454
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: formally enslaved people.

455
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 7: Under Biden's current policies, even though these millions of illegal

456
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 7: border crosses have entered the country on awfully, all of

457
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 7: their future children will become automatic US citizens. Can you

458
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 7: imagine They'll be eligible for welfare, taxpayer funded healthcare, the

459
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 7: rate to vote, chain migration, and countless other government benefits,

460
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 7: many of which will also profit the illegal alien parents.

461
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 7: This policy is a reward for breaking the laws of

462
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 7: the United States and is obviously a magnet helping draw

463
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 7: the flood of illegals across our borders. They come by

464
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 7: the millions and millions and minions.

465
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: So another thing that don Trump wants to do is

466
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: do away with the Diversity Visa program. Are you familiar

467
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: with the Diversity Visa.

468
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: No, I'm going to say no, I'm familiar with it,

469
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: but I have to like know what it is in detail,

470
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 2: So please tell me.

471
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 3: James, Okay, I would love to tell you.

472
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: Sharing the DV program, I will avoid using the acronym.

473
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 3: Because it US. Yeah.

474
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: They we're just sending cops all over the World's Yeah,

475
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: the Diversity Visa program, better known as the Green Card Lottery,

476
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: allows about fifty five thousand or exactly fifty five thousand

477
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 1: in theory, immigrant visas a year for individuals from countries

478
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: that are underrepresented in the US immigration system.

479
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: I remember that. Well, that sounds familiar, Yes.

480
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, So, like you'll meet people almost everywhere I go.

481
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: I tend not to go to countries that are highly

482
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: represented in the US immigration system, right, Those being countries

483
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: that find it easier for people to get visas like

484
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: h one B's right, because they are more economically maybe

485
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: close to the United States and have educational credentials that

486
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: translate across. So the Trump administration had made the diversity

487
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: visa program, it's such a massive cluster fuck that it

488
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: effectively didn't work. And the way that this happened was

489
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: because you don't just win the Green card lottery and

490
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: they mail a green cards to your house, like come

491
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: on over, Bud. You win the lottery, and that gives

492
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: you the right to go to the embassy to do

493
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: an interview and then you make the application. Right then

494
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: they check check you off on any checklist you might

495
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: be on. All the stuff that would normally apply to

496
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: a migrant it's not like an amnust T visa. And

497
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: what the Trump administration did was make it very hard

498
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: for people to get these appointments, especially during COVID and

499
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: this has been the case with the Bide administration as well.

500
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 1: They get the lowest priority now the cambuc And appointment,

501
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: but other people's stuff gets to sort of overtake.

502
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 3: Them in the line.

503
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: Right, because you only have a year from receiving it

504
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: to claiming it de facto, this means that people don't

505
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: get it right. So we are not fifty five thousand

506
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 1: people are not coming because of the diversity visa. Even

507
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: if they were, this is not very many people, and

508
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: like it's just Trump. I don't know, maybe he saw

509
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: the phrase diversity and became triggered. But it's a weird

510
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: little bugbear like which I guess if you can focus

511
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: on weird little things. But still, the diversity visa is great.

512
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: The people I know who often most deserve visas people

513
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: who can't even afford to make the trip right to

514
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: walk here or you know, if you're not in the

515
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: Continental Americas, it's a lot more expensive.

516
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: You have to fly. I guess you could take a vote.

517
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: But some of those people I mean, my friend who

518
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: driving all around Iraq is applying for a diversity VSA

519
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: and like, I really hope he gets it, lovely man.

520
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: Trump also has this bug there about DHS paying benefits

521
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: to quote illegal aliens crooker.

522
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 7: Joe Biden is running a NonStop conveyor belt importing illegal

523
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 7: aliens from all over the world into our country, and

524
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 7: the Biden Department of Homeland Security is abusing it so

525
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 7: called parole authority to give them more governmental benefits than

526
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 7: many law abiding citizens, including our vets. Our vets are

527
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 7: being taken advantage of. Our citizens are being taken advantage of.

528
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 7: It's very unfair and it's not going to stand.

529
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: The Department of how My Security doesn't pay and benefits

530
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: to anyone. I guess it pays like border patrol agents

531
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: and people who work for it, but it's not giving

532
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: anyone public benefits. Right, and documented people normally ineligible for

533
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: most benefits, even people who do have legal status. And

534
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: he consistently conflates asylum seekers with undocumented people, right, maybe

535
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: because he genuinely doesn't know the difference, and it doesn't

536
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: care to learn the difference. Even people who have legal

537
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: status face a range of hurdles like sometimes they have

538
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: a forty quarter work bar for example, right, so that

539
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: it means you have to have been working for forty

540
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: periods of three months consecutively. Again, this is kind of

541
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: He might be talking about something called the public charge rule,

542
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: which can interfere with your citizenship or visa application if

543
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: you've taken certain times of benefits. So maybe he's looking

544
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: to make that a little bit broader. But again it's

545
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: really unclear, and it's kind of like identity politics grifting.

546
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: The next thing is we're getting towards QAnon territory.

547
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 3: Now, great, I.

548
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 7: Will use Title forty two to end the child traffic

549
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 7: in crisis by returning all traffic children to their families

550
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 7: in their home countries and without then, and I will

551
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 7: urge Congress to ensure that anyone caught traffic in children.

552
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 7: Of course our border receives the death penalty immediately. And

553
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 7: that includes also for women, because women, as you know,

554
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 7: are number one in trafficking children are actually number two.

555
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: This is some weird shit first of all, right, but

556
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: he talks about using Title forty two. This is not,

557
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: as I've talked about three times now, what Title forty

558
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: two is for it's very obvious that he thinks Title

559
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: forty two is immigration law because he very obviously used

560
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: it as that.

561
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 3: Right.

562
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: He was not using Title forty two to stop people

563
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: getting COVID because he did square root fuckles stop people

564
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: getting COVID, right, and there were not exemptions for vaccinated people.

565
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: It's very obvious that they use Title forty two cynically

566
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: as an immigration law. That is not what it is. Also,

567
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: deporting someone back to the situation they were trafficked from,

568
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: maybe not smart like maybe especially a miner who is

569
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: trafficked here, maybe we could help them one of the

570
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: richest countries the humanity has ever seen. Maybe not just

571
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: bumping them straight back to that country, maybe showing a

572
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: little bit of compassion. Human trafficking is a problem, but

573
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: this is not the solution. So Harris kind of touts

574
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: her prosecutorial experience when she talks about human trafficking. She's

575
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: actually been better than some not punishing people who were trafficked, right,

576
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: So I was reading that at one point she asked

577
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: prosecutors not to use the term teenage prostitute because that's

578
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: not really a thing. What we're seeing there is somebody

579
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: who is being trafficked, right, or somebody who has been victimized,

580
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: taken advantage of manipulated and seeing them as perpetrators is

581
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: fundamentally missing the fucking problem. And this is what the

582
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: legal system does far too often, right, is it goes

583
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: after the people who are the vactims, not the criminals.

584
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: She twice brought criminal charges against backpage dot Com, which

585
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: is a website.

586
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: I guess whe people can find escorts.

587
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with these things, but I know that

588
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: some sex workers were opposed to that because they felt

589
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: it drove them kind of onto more underground platforms, which

590
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: which were even more risky to them. But obviously if

591
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: people were also being trafficked on this platform, So like

592
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: her record, I guess it is somewhat mixed. You know

593
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: what else is somewhat mixed? Shereen, what, James, it's the

594
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: products and services that we get to support this show.

595
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes it's the cops, sometimes it's terrible coffee,

596
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: sometimes it's gold. You never know what you're going to get. Ooh,

597
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: we are backed, and we are back to one of

598
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's oldest chestnutes, and that would be his stupid wall,

599
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: right that he wants to build.

600
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 7: We created the most secure border in US history, by far,

601
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 7: dealing a major blow to the cartels and traffickers. We

602
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 7: built hundreds of miles of war, We renovated hundreds of

603
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 7: miles of water. We never had anything like it. And

604
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 7: then I got Mexico free of charge. You give us

605
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 7: twenty eight thousand soldiers to protect us from people coming

606
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 7: into our country illegally.

607
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: He talks about building hundreds of miles a wall. He

608
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: sets up a couple of times. Right, we've renovated hundreds

609
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: of mile the wall. You know, did they build hundreds

610
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: that maybe just technically that they really.

611
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: Fudged the numbers.

612
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had a lot of freedom of information requests

613
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: for that. I guess what's more relevant is that Biden.

614
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: Also built the wall, right, mm hmm.

615
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: Calm, that's not talking about it. But as we've documented

616
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: numerous times, Biden has continued to build the wall. He's

617
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: continued to build the barrier, which.

618
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: Is a wall.

619
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: He has repaired other sections of war, he has upgraded

620
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: sections of fence to wall. They're both doing this, right.

621
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: There's maybe Donald Trump would do more of it, but

622
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like it's general and competence might prevent

623
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: him from doing any more than Biden's like competent migrant

624
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: as they call it, de terrents, right, deterrence through death

625
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: is It's probably a better way of phrasing it. Trump

626
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: also talks about a total ban on taxpair dollars to

627
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: give legal aid to undocumented people. Again, I'm not sure

628
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: if he knows what he's talking about. I don't know

629
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: what he's talking about. He might be referring to it.

630
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: We have a program in San Diego County where San

631
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: Diego County pays for some people to defend migrants who

632
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: are detained by ICE, right, so they can have access

633
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: to a lawyer. ICE has responded to that by moving

634
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: those people to Texas.

635
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: Oh that makes sense.

636
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally normal. Good.

637
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: I'm glad we voted for the anti fascist guy. Everything's

638
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: going great, exactly. You can listen to my episode about

639
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: that if you want to know more about that. But

640
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if he means like they don't get

641
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: public defenders if they're accused of a crime.

642
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: Certainly.

643
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: Isn't it just true that he can also just like

644
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: use these trigger words to make people mad.

645
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that is what he's doing.

646
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, not necessari always has to be base in fact.

647
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: No, yeah, that's to be found with Donald Trump, this

648
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And then finally talking of stuff that doesn't

649
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: have to be real, he's absolutely batshit insane idea of

650
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: fucking aiding Mexico to kill members of cartels, which that's yeah, unhinged, Yeah,

651
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: that is unhinged. That will resolve in more violence, it

652
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: will result in more instability, it will result in more death.

653
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: I think, I'm it's pretty much unclear when it comes

654
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: to that one, Like she is not proposing invading Mexico.

655
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: So much of what Donald Trump says is insane and

656
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. So I wanted to look at

657
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: some of the people who kind of lean on Trump,

658
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: some of the people who might be a little bit

659
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: more coherent right when it comes to crafting that policy.

660
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: Right.

661
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: Couldn't get Steven Mirr on the podcast Sad, but we

662
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: did get these people from the Texas Public Policy Foundation

663
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: who Robert and Gare spoke to at the Republican National Convention.

664
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: So here's them talking about visas and immigration.

665
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 9: I've tried to hire people from other countries. It takes

666
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 9: months and months and months to get that done. It

667
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 9: usually spend a lot of money doing it as well,

668
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 9: and so the system is disincentivized to do that. So,

669
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 9: you know, actually doing the last Trump administration, the start

670
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 9: looking at like let's reduce the number of visas and

671
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 9: have broader categories. Right, So I think they're trying to

672
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 9: get down to about seventeen visas, get to more marit

673
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 9: based program to fit the needs that we have. Make

674
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 9: sure that you can you know, it's not about like

675
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 9: what is the total number, but if we are needing labor,

676
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 9: we needing people in these areas, you can kind of

677
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 9: like as a dial, you can turn up and down

678
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 9: in certain areas on certain visas. And so I think

679
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 9: if you do have to first like stop the problem,

680
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 9: and then you also have to make systemic changes that

681
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 9: will overhaul the system and make a lot easier so

682
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 9: that people are incentivised to actually do it.

683
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 3: The right way. Yeah.

684
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 1: So these people aren't stupid, right, they won't just spew hate. Yeah,

685
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: They're much more competent in the facts. So I think

686
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: what we're seeing here, right is this undoubtedly is a

687
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: way to reduce what they see is undesirable migration, which

688
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: is to say, poor people and brown people you can

689
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: phrase it however you want, right, bit.

690
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 2: I mean, in the Republican's eyes, maybe a lot of people,

691
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 2: all migration is undesirable migration.

692
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, well, people will talk to me.

693
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm for those of you who have just listened to me.

694
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: I guess a white person British. You're not white, you're British. Yeah,

695
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: which is more like a kind of translucent really you

696
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah, so yeah, I am a British person,

697
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: which is important, I guess because people will talk to

698
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: me about immigration like I'm one of the good migrants

699
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: and they can go fuck themselves. Yeah that position, right,

700
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: That Like it's a like implicit white people are okay.

701
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that's all that means. It's like, oh, yeah,

702
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: you speak English and you're like me, great, come out,

703
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: come on into my racist country.

704
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, I'm like funny foreign as opposed to

705
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: like evil foreign I guess.

706
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: I think it's also just like they don't see you

707
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: in whatever in their mind is a threat, right like

708
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: to I don't know, it makes no sense logically, but.

709
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah it does if you understand it's relents of race.

710
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, but I mean their perspective makes.

711
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 3: No sense to me.

712
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, same people who are barking about my fellow British

713
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: people being a threat because they happened to be Muslim,

714
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 1: right or brown, or seek in people that don't understand

715
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: it seeks anon Muslims. So what we actually need is

716
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 1: more legal pathways. He is correct that the visa system

717
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: needs changing, and we need ways that people can apply

718
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: and come here safely and not have to be trafficked

719
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: and not have to take massive risks.

720
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: Right.

721
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: I wanted to see what Robert and Geh had asked

722
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: them about this mass deportation seeing because I've seen some

723
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: people holding like mass deportations now sign at the RNC,

724
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: and that's always good sign that we're not sort of

725
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: sidestepping into fascism. So let's hear what you said about that.

726
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 10: Is that plan kind of the mass detention and expulsion

727
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 10: of undocumented migrants in the US something that you think

728
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 10: is a good idea, something you support as the Heritage Foundation.

729
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, generally, you know, obviously you got to look at implementation,

730
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 9: right and how you actually go about doing that in

731
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 9: the right way, But yeah, absolutely generally.

732
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, and then what kind of time frame then, because

733
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 10: you just said this is something you have to like

734
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 10: lay some groundwork on and what time frame do you

735
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 10: see it being feasible to carry out something like that?

736
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 9: You know, I actually don't have a good answer for that,

737
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 9: because you have to first get your arms around the problem.

738
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 9: We don't even know how many people are here, and

739
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 9: you don't know where they come from, and so it's

740
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 9: not like you're just trying to deport them all just

741
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 9: to Mexico or something like that, or the southern border, right, Like,

742
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 9: you have to first get your arms around the problem.

743
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 9: That's the first step, and then I think from there

744
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 9: you can actually understand figure out what a reasonable time

745
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 9: frame to do that is.

746
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is pretty fucked.

747
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: Like I should point out that the Bilbah Harris is

748
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: proposing also proposes bumping people back to Mexico without the

749
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: permission of Mexico.

750
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 3: Right.

751
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: I think so many of these policies just rely on

752
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: Mexico being kind of a sponge for US policy, like, oh,

753
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: they'll be fine, like God forbid Mexico act as a

754
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: sovereign country.

755
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this one seems different. Right.

756
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: We had I feel like pretty good liberal support on

757
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: abolish ice under Trump that has completely evaporated under Biden.

758
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: But because we solved racism. Yeah, yeah, we fixed it.

759
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: I've forgotten about that. Yeah, that was that was the

760
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: big crunch point. So what this means is taking people

761
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: who have homes, lives, jobs, and families and tearing them

762
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: away from one of those things and tending them back

763
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: to a country that they may not have been to

764
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: in decades, that they may never have been to at all,

765
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: a place where they will undoubtedly face hardship, if not persecution,

766
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: and certainly having lived here having family here, will make

767
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: them more likely to be ransomed or blackmailed or any

768
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 1: of these things that happened to migrants when they're deported. Right,

769
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: And this is pretty bleak, Like I guess Harris hasn't

770
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: advocated for this, which seeing the amount of the amount

771
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: of people who fucking respond to my tweets with your

772
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: going home to like I a am a US citizen

773
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: and be fuck you.

774
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 3: Yeah all the time, all the time. Yeah, it's so funny. Okay,

775
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: got a life.

776
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, it does seem that there is a wing

777
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: of the Trump and I talked to Trump people, right,

778
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: I was in the mountains this weekend, like I was

779
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, mincing about in the mountains.

780
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: It's lovely.

781
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: But in talk to some people and I've never really

782
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: come across anyone who can like in the flesh. Maybe

783
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: it's just because those people are so repulsive, I wouldn't

784
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: talk to them, And it's probably quite likely. But advocated

785
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: for this right, like this idea of mass deportations, Like

786
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: like I said at the start of this show, like,

787
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: how does a country get into full on fascism?

788
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 3: It is this.

789
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: It is my taxes and your taxes, and some of

790
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: the people who are listening taxes paying for people who

791
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: have done nothing wrong, right, who have lived here, who

792
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: haven't done any crimes, who haven't hurt anyone, to be

793
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: at our expense, expelled from their home, detained in a

794
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: private prison whose owner company makes massive donations to politicians,

795
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: and then flown across the world at our expense, and

796
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: then dumped into a country where they no longer belong.

797
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: And that is as close as we get, I think

798
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: to like someone saying like send them to the camps

799
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: without saying that like, yeah, look, what was the Armenian genocide?

800
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: The Armenian genocide was a mass deportation, right of people

801
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,439
Speaker 1: forced to walk across the desert and die on the way,

802
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: Like if you don't think this Trump ship is fascist,

803
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: Like I really don't know what to do. It doesn't

804
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: matter if it's fascist or not. Right, Like this is

805
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: the kind of rhetoric that's genocidal, Like I don't want

806
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: to argue about like Robert Preston and like different definitions,

807
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: because that doesn't matter. Like this shit is it is genocidal.

808
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: It is dehumanizing migrants, which has been a project of

809
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: the right wing news media and increasingly the liberal news media,

810
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: and also the Democrat Party now apparently as well as

811
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: the Republicans.

812
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: But this is.

813
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: A market step to the right. Both of these are right.

814
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: The Overton window has moved so far right migration in

815
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: the last eight years that it's almost an unrecognizable place.

816
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: And I guess what I when they end up by

817
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: saying what I always say about this is like the

818
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: solution is not within the argument about who to vote for.

819
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: Like these are state policies. These are also often set

820
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: by the legislature, as we saw when Biden's board bill failed, Right,

821
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: and that would require a change in the legislature, Like

822
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: there isn't a third party that can get a majority

823
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: in the legislature right now. So the way we fix

824
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: this is ourselves, right like we are seeing in the

825
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: UK right now, like violence towards Muslim people, andoance towards masques,

826
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: violence towards Islamic cultural centers, and people stepping up to

827
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: defend them. That is the only way we fix this

828
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: is by stepping up and shouldering our responsibility to our communities.

829
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: And people did that in the Trump administration to a degree,

830
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: Like when I'm twenty eighteen, when I was down in

831
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: Tijuana looking after folks who are part of the caravan

832
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: that Trump made a big spectacle in the midterms. People

833
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: showed up, showed up, a soccer mom, showed up in

834
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: minivans and helped us, and it was cool. The thing

835
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: was fucked, But like, I respect that we look after

836
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: those people, and that hasn't happened to as much of

837
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: a degree since, right And we've had more people than

838
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: we had in twenty eighteen in the open air detention sites,

839
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: and so like I guess where I want to end

840
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: is whoever wins, it's still our responsibility to take care

841
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: of migrants because neither of them is going to And

842
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: we are continuing with policies that will accelerate climate change.

843
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: We are continuing with policies that will impoverish people all

844
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: over the world and enriching people who are already super wealthy,

845
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: and those things will continue to drive migration. We can't

846
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: change those things in an actionable amount of time, but

847
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: what we can do is try our best to meet

848
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: people who come here with kindness. And so, yeah, I

849
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: would urge you to do that. I guess if you

850
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: want to volunteer, you can email Altro Lado it's Altro

851
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: Lado dot or border Kindness always need your money, Borderline

852
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: Relief Collective always need your money. And those are always

853
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: things that you can volunteer with or places you can

854
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: say your money if you don't have your time. But

855
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: you can also organize in your own neighborhood. I'm speaking

856
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: to some people today who are organizing in Maryland to

857
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: take care of some Kurdish refugees who I know, like

858
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: they weren't doing anything a year ago, right, they saw

859
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: a need and they saw it being a met and

860
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: they realized that they could meet it, and they've made

861
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 1: a huge difference to people's lives. So like wherever you are,

862
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: there are migrs in your community.

863
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 3: And you can do that too. It could Happen Here

864
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 3: as a production of cool Zone Media.

865
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

866
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

867
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

868
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

869
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.