Speaker 1: Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for HBO's The Last of
Speaker 1: Us episode three. Plus at the end of that conversation,
Speaker 1: we're going to have a spoiler filled conversation that will
Speaker 1: spoil the Last of Us video game. So if you
Speaker 1: have finished the Last of this video game, you will
Speaker 1: be able to listen to that conversation. And if you
Speaker 1: don't care about that, you will also be able to
Speaker 1: listen to that conversation. Don't worry, We're also going to
Speaker 1: call that out very very loudly, very very obviously when
Speaker 1: we get to that point in the conversation to give
Speaker 1: you an opportunity to hit stop and move on. You
Speaker 1: have been warned. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and
Speaker 1: I'm Rosey Night and welcome to x ray Vision, the
Speaker 1: Crooked Media podcast where we dived it's your favorite shows, movies, comics,
Speaker 1: and pop culture.
Speaker 2: In this episode, we are gonna be digging into the
Speaker 2: airlock on one of the most heartbreaking episodes of TV
Speaker 2: sure that you will see in a long time, The
Speaker 2: Last of Us Episode three. I'm Ready, but I'm not Ready.
Speaker 1: It's definitely a like a little bit of a devastating
Speaker 1: hit to take on a Sunday, like at ten o'clock
Speaker 1: at night to like turn that off and be like, fuck,
Speaker 1: now I gotta go to sleep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do I do with my life now? And
Speaker 2: in that out we got a very exciting Star Wars
Speaker 2: theory from one of our lissons.
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into it. We're shipping out of the
Speaker 1: airlock and into the beautiful, scenic streets of bill'stown for
Speaker 1: the heart wrenching third episode of HBO's The Last of Us.
Speaker 1: What an incredible hour of television title A long long
Speaker 1: time written by Craig, isn't directed by Peter Horr. It's
Speaker 1: just an incredible hour of storytelling. We opened ten miles
Speaker 1: west of Boston. It's early morning. Joel as his as
Speaker 1: is his extremely compartmentalized way, has gone off alone to
Speaker 1: mourn Tests. He makes a cairn on the banks of
Speaker 1: a river and he goes back to the campsite that
Speaker 1: he's sharing with Ellie. Ellie is torn by the loss
Speaker 1: of Tests and her potential culpability for that, but she's
Speaker 1: holding it together and already just seeing them. There's signs
Speaker 1: that Joel is warming to her, despite the fact that yeah,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want treating her with frostiness. He's letting her
Speaker 1: user it's jacket as a blanket. He shares his food,
Speaker 1: presumably tests food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's whether it's an uncomfortable alliance. But Joel he
Speaker 2: he remembers what tests his lost words. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: he knows this was important tests even if he kind
Speaker 2: of resents Ellie for.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a working man, and he's a man
Speaker 1: that will do the job whether or not it's a
Speaker 1: job he enjoys, you know, doesn't.
Speaker 2: Really good way out She has very Joel, he's he's
Speaker 2: never really changed over these twenty years.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's like, did he love working as a contractor?
Speaker 1: I doubt it.
Speaker 2: Did he do it?
Speaker 1: Did he do it? He did it? Ellie says, I've
Speaker 1: never been in the woods, more bugs than I thought
Speaker 1: trying to make small talk. Joel doesn't want to make
Speaker 1: small talk, does want to make any kind of talk.
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to be talking talking.
Speaker 1: But Ellie clearly wants to like preempt any kind of
Speaker 1: test talk and get something off her chest. She points out,
Speaker 1: And I think pretty I.
Speaker 2: Loved this moment. I thought it was like it really
Speaker 2: sets up who Ellie is.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, she basically says Hey, don't blame me for this,
Speaker 1: like that was terrible what happened.
Speaker 2: She's like, you made a you has chose to call
Speaker 2: you wanted Joel battery or whatever, and you made a
Speaker 2: choice and that's what happened. So don't blame me.
Speaker 1: And so you didn't have to take me. You made
Speaker 1: that choice. None of this is my fault. And they
Speaker 1: move on in silence. It's a five hour walk to
Speaker 1: wherever they're headed. Ellie asks you all if he has
Speaker 1: gone this way a lot? Just trying to make conversation.
Speaker 1: She asks about the scar in his head, which he
Speaker 1: says he got in a shootout. The guy missed and
Speaker 1: he missed as well. And she's like, well is that
Speaker 1: you know? Is that because you suck at shooting or.
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, but you're allowed to have a gun.
Speaker 1: The gun, She's like, where is can I? I notice
Speaker 1: you have two guns, so what's up?
Speaker 2: How's a gun?
Speaker 1: There's two of us. I have no gun. You have
Speaker 1: two guns? Can we share? No? That's a hard note
Speaker 1: on absolutely on firearm socialism. They arrive at a Comby's,
Speaker 1: a Cumberland farms staple of New England life.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say that was that was the you've
Speaker 2: been the Trumpies. Yeah, like this is like they were like,
Speaker 2: this is real.
Speaker 1: Joel is like, I got a cachet of stuff hidden
Speaker 1: here where you need it. And here we get a
Speaker 1: moment ripped from the game. Ellie sees a Mortal Kombat game. Now,
Speaker 1: a Mortal Kombat game in the in the show not
Speaker 1: what was it?
Speaker 3: Ninja something, Angel Eyes the Angel Knives was the main character,
Speaker 3: and it was kind of a very brutal video game
Speaker 3: with like a black lead who had like Wolverine type
Speaker 3: clause and she and Ellie.
Speaker 1: Knows everything about Mortal Kombat, which they don't give the
Speaker 1: backstory here, but I would assume it's the same from
Speaker 1: the game, which is she knew somebody who knew the
Speaker 1: Federal Orphanage who knew all about it, and she just
Speaker 1: really wishes she could play it. Meanwhile, Joel is like,
Speaker 1: where I myself? And Ellie calls him out on it,
Speaker 1: and he says, I'm zeroing it in on it all right.
Speaker 1: I'm just like zeroing it on wherever I hid my stuff.
Speaker 1: So Ellie heads off. This reminded me of twenty eight
Speaker 1: days later in the moment where they stop at a
Speaker 1: like a roadside gas station killian Murphy goes off on
Speaker 1: his own just to do whatever. Ellie heads off on
Speaker 1: her own. She finds a trap door, she goes down
Speaker 1: it clavi a plan, great plan. I don't know how
Speaker 1: she was planning to get up quickly if she needed to,
Speaker 1: but that's fine. She finds a fresh box of tampons,
Speaker 1: which is total score.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's like what the million nola's in
Speaker 2: the zombia worth.
Speaker 1: More than baggies probably, And then she hears the trademark
Speaker 1: sound of an infected somewhere and she swings her flashlight
Speaker 1: over and there is one trapped by collapse debris. And
Speaker 1: this is a really interesting moment where Ellie takes the
Speaker 1: opportunity provided by the safety the fact that this effect
Speaker 1: is trapped in the privacy, to like test whether she
Speaker 1: can kill a thing. Basically, you know, can I kill
Speaker 1: this thing?
Speaker 2: And is it really does this kind of like really
Speaker 2: clinical moment where she cuts open its head to see
Speaker 2: what it's underneath, and because also I think as well,
Speaker 2: that's that moment of self discovery, of wondering what would
Speaker 2: happen to her or is that already inside her?
Speaker 1: Like this?
Speaker 2: But it also has this scariness to it, of that
Speaker 2: disconnect from humanity of a kid who's grown up around this,
Speaker 2: who can just cut open a living being's face and
Speaker 2: then you kind of wait, and there's this moment of
Speaker 2: silence that almost goes too long before she actually kills it,
Speaker 2: and there's kind of this connection. Oh, it's really creepy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really resonated with me in that. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure as a kid people have had the experience
Speaker 1: of like the kids in the friend group who are like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's burn caterpillars with a magnifying glass or let's kill this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the creepy kids, the creepy kids, right, And it felt like,
Speaker 1: here is this moment Joel's not around, nobody's around where
Speaker 1: she can kind of let the creepy kid out, especially.
Speaker 2: Because she's around these adults who kill people all the time,
Speaker 2: and there's this boundary that she's testing here.
Speaker 1: But obviously I do it?
Speaker 2: Can I do it? And the infect it is trapped
Speaker 2: like an animal, kind of trapped under glows. It's a
Speaker 2: really intense moment. It really jury very absolutely delivers on it.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's that moment where she points the blade
Speaker 1: of the knife at it to see like, is it
Speaker 1: gonna be afraid? Is there any recognition that it's in
Speaker 1: danger right now? And then you sensed an almost relief
Speaker 1: that there wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, back upstairs, Joel
Speaker 1: found his stuff and now he's hiding his assault rifle
Speaker 1: because there's no AMMO and so it's basically useless. So
Speaker 1: he's like, wait, hold on a second, you're just like
Speaker 1: throwing it in a hole. Can I have it? Joel
Speaker 1: says no. They walk on. They pass an airplane crash.
Speaker 1: Joel insists, if flying wasn't actually that cool, it wasn't
Speaker 1: that great, it was pretty You had to take off
Speaker 1: your shoes, which I can't even explain to you what
Speaker 1: that was about. That's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's a whole different time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you had to sit in the middle
Speaker 1: seat and pay twelve dollars or whatever it is for
Speaker 1: a for a sandwich, which do you even understand what
Speaker 1: money was?
Speaker 2: Many?
Speaker 1: Does that ring a bell at all? And Allie's like, dude,
Speaker 1: you got to go up in the sky.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, and they got to go up
Speaker 2: in the sky too, and they crashed, So classic optimistic
Speaker 2: Joel that.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of Station eleven when they're explaining the
Speaker 1: Internet to the kids, like so you could just like
Speaker 1: look up anything.
Speaker 2: It was just like having every book in the world
Speaker 2: just in your pocket.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, yeah, it was Actually I guess now when
Speaker 1: you say it that way, it's pretty cool. He then
Speaker 1: they start talking about like, Okay, what was the fall like,
Speaker 1: and a conversation actually that we've been having in our
Speaker 1: discord and have and fans have been having, which is,
Speaker 1: how did this thing start? Like if the in fact
Speaker 1: you have to bite people, it must have there. How
Speaker 1: did who's a chicken in the egg?
Speaker 2: Question?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: But what Joel kind of reveals, Hey, and this is
Speaker 2: different from the game is this was like a day
Speaker 2: in the game, it's over months. But here he's like,
Speaker 2: it was dun, dundun. It was in the theory is
Speaker 2: which we've talked about. I don't want to say we.
Speaker 1: Were right.
Speaker 4: Our discord discord was definitely right, but basically like it
Speaker 4: was in it had been in the food, it had
Speaker 4: been in the wheat, and people started to get sick
Speaker 4: and it just happened really quickly.
Speaker 2: So something I think is really interesting about this reveal
Speaker 2: is that means that where we saw the doctor in
Speaker 2: Jakarta last episode, that was probably zero. That was probably
Speaker 2: ground zero, and that was probably the beginning. And by
Speaker 2: the time that Sarah and Joel and Tommy heard about it,
Speaker 2: that was when it was starting to spread.
Speaker 1: So he says, yeah, like it probably was a very
Speaker 1: very basic food stuff got into the food supply, hit
Speaker 1: supermarket shelves on a Thursday, this is two thousand and three.
Speaker 1: People bought it, used it, made raisin cookies out of it,
Speaker 1: biscuits biscuits, and infected themselves. And then the next day,
Speaker 1: late Friday, September twenty six, two thousand and three, the
Speaker 1: shit absolutely hit the fan and by Monday it was
Speaker 1: all gone. They later cut across They come to a
Speaker 1: stretch of the path where Joel's like, let's cut across
Speaker 1: the woods. So there's something up there that I don't
Speaker 1: want you to see. And all He's like, what, like
Speaker 1: you murder a guy? Like is it gonna be? Is
Speaker 1: it something that can hurt me? He's like no, He's like,
Speaker 1: then I want to see it. So they go and
Speaker 1: it is a mass grave. And what we learn is
Speaker 1: that in the chaos and confusion of Outbreak day post
Speaker 1: outbreak Day, and this is now a week after outbreak Day.
Speaker 1: Joel says, this happened. The military went small towns across
Speaker 1: the country, evacuating people, telling them you're going to ACZ
Speaker 1: and that was true. But if there was no room
Speaker 1: at the QZ, you were going to a mask grave
Speaker 1: where you're going to get gunned down. And that was it.
Speaker 1: And Allie says, why why not just like leave them?
Speaker 1: And Joel says, because it's people. In fact, it exactly
Speaker 1: x ray Vision will be back, and we're back. We
Speaker 1: flash back to nine thirty, two thousand and three. Federal
Speaker 1: forces are evacuating a town, which, man, they got that
Speaker 1: together pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: Oh they were ready.
Speaker 1: They were ready.
Speaker 2: The conspiracy theorists probably have a lot of thoughts about
Speaker 2: how quickly they were able to militarize and evacuate these
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot.
Speaker 1: Of questions, right just to pause here, It's like number one,
Speaker 1: do the president un any bread? Like on Thursday night?
Speaker 1: You know, like how in the the Cavilian leadership, like
Speaker 1: who what's left do you? How do you get let's
Speaker 1: say this did happen and you're telling up some kind
Speaker 1: of military force Okay, you got to round people up
Speaker 1: and taking the qus and those that don't make it,
Speaker 1: you just kind of I'm asking you to be a
Speaker 1: mass murderer. You have to imagine that, like a large
Speaker 1: number of people wouldn't do this right, I would.
Speaker 2: Say that my cynical twenty twenty three opinion, it would
Speaker 2: depend where you were getting them from. There are certain
Speaker 2: places in the way that they militarized the country where
Speaker 2: there would probably be people who would be more eager.
Speaker 2: And also it's a life or death situation, you know,
Speaker 2: it's could you do that? I mean also, is it
Speaker 2: a real martial law? Is the president still there ordering
Speaker 2: that or are these just segments of the army that
Speaker 2: are left? Is there? I would love to know that.
Speaker 2: This is the I find this all the storytelling choices
Speaker 2: in this show so brave. I'm so happy. From the beginning,
Speaker 2: I said I want season one to be the first game,
Speaker 2: and that's what they're doing. But I could also watch
Speaker 2: a whole series just about the establishment of FEDERA. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and how who is in charge, who's making those decisions,
Speaker 2: who's setting up the qzs, How would they know? How
Speaker 2: quickly could they do that? What was a QZ and
Speaker 2: how did they get to be the places that they were,
Speaker 2: Like was it just a space in town? And how
Speaker 2: did you keep the infected out? And before you had
Speaker 2: the tests, how did you know who was infected? There's
Speaker 2: just so many interesting questions and that kind of brutality
Speaker 2: of these like mass graves is like, is just so horrific.
Speaker 2: But it seems, as Joe said that that was basically
Speaker 2: as normal as anything else at the time, Like it
Speaker 2: just began and people accepted it.
Speaker 1: George W. Bush about to eat a piece of toast
Speaker 1: and a secret service guy and Andy Carr come up
Speaker 1: and solid fucking toast out of his hand. So we
Speaker 1: flashed back to September thirty, two thousand and three towns
Speaker 1: being evacuated. We see on the evacuation truck the woman
Speaker 1: and her child that eventually are going to be skeletons
Speaker 1: in this mass grave and watching all of this from
Speaker 1: his underground bunker which has is fully self sufficient and
Speaker 1: it has like full CCTV TV and a secret entrance.
Speaker 1: Below the basement is a bill and he's been waiting
Speaker 1: for this. He's been waiting for years. He thought this
Speaker 1: would happen someday and Unfortunately he was right. He whispers,
Speaker 1: not today, you knew world order, Jack boot Fox.
Speaker 2: And they come knocking on his door. They kick down
Speaker 2: his door, presumably, and they don't find it. He's deep
Speaker 2: in the basement. He's safe.
Speaker 1: So the coast is clear and Bill emerges and it's
Speaker 1: party time. It's time to set up shop. He gets
Speaker 1: his neighbor's boat. He rips everything out of the boat
Speaker 1: so he can use it as like a trailer. He's
Speaker 1: gathering supplies from home depot. He's getting all the best wines.
Speaker 1: He's taking everything from the grocery store that he needs.
Speaker 1: He goes to the nearby power plant and make sure
Speaker 1: the gas is on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just loving life. He's setting up this whole
Speaker 2: street to become his home. It's kind of idyllic post
Speaker 2: apocalyptic suburb.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful deal. He sets up a defensive perimeter
Speaker 1: anchored by an electric fence. He got the electricity on
Speaker 1: with the generator. He's got lots of traps, man traps,
Speaker 1: fire traps.
Speaker 2: He's got traps the shooting zombies if they come close.
Speaker 1: He's saws, circular saw traps. This guy is he loves
Speaker 1: making the traps. He's a saw I.
Speaker 2: Was gonna say he's he's got big jigsaw energy. He
Speaker 2: would do well as a serial killer if the apocalypse
Speaker 2: had not happened.
Speaker 1: And he's also a gourmand. He plants all. He enjoys
Speaker 1: the finding things in lot chickens. He's got some pork shoulder,
Speaker 1: pork butt, ready to wine, sautee it up in a
Speaker 1: in a beautiful wine sauce. He's he's living very fat.
Speaker 1: And he goes on like this for four years, scouring
Speaker 1: the nearby area for supplies when he means and returning
Speaker 1: to his little fortress town. And then one day he's
Speaker 1: alerted by his security system that an effected he thinks
Speaker 1: has fallen into one of his his pit traps around
Speaker 1: the perimeter. He goes over to see what's what's occurred,
Speaker 1: and it's a guy who is named Frank. And Frank
Speaker 1: has just escaped a couple days ago, escaped from the
Speaker 1: Baltimore QZ, which apparently has been overrun, and he's trying
Speaker 1: to make his way to Boston. And he was in
Speaker 1: a party of ten and now it's a party of one,
Speaker 1: just Frank and Bill. Very very wary, gun always at
Speaker 1: the ready, let's Frank out of the pit. And then Frank,
Speaker 1: who we are going to learn is just a very
Speaker 1: very charming person who is eager to make connections with
Speaker 1: other people and eager to show his worth as a
Speaker 1: person who makes connections, makes a connection with Bill and says, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of starving and if I could just like
Speaker 1: have a meal, that would be great, and Bill really
Speaker 1: against his better judgment, Yeah, I just want to say.
Speaker 2: Bill says, like, my one of my favorite lines here,
Speaker 2: which is like, I really feel like they were They
Speaker 2: were just like, this is nickoll Fermen playing Bill, and
Speaker 2: I really feel like they with him. They were like,
Speaker 2: you can just play it like if Ron Swanson was
Speaker 2: in a drama. Because Frank's like, oh, could I just
Speaker 2: have one meal? I have any in for two days?
Speaker 2: And then he's like, I realized that doesn't sound very long.
Speaker 2: And Bill's like, you can't just come hen and get
Speaker 2: a free meal. This isn't an Abby's. If you go
Speaker 2: people are gonna be coming in a restaurant. And then
Speaker 2: and and Frank's like Abby's a restaurant there there was
Speaker 2: no free meals, And they kind of have this banter
Speaker 2: and eventually like Bill decides he's gonna let Frank in.
Speaker 1: He also says Bill that, well, listen, if I let
Speaker 1: you in, everyone come in and tell every hobo in
Speaker 1: the area.
Speaker 2: Frank's like, I won't tell any hobo which, oh vagabonds will.
Speaker 1: Drift this which this should be our first hint that
Speaker 1: Bill and Joel are on parallel tracks. Remember Joel on
Speaker 1: the outbreak day passing a family on the road. No,
Speaker 1: keep fucking going, We're not stopping. Bill, had Frank not
Speaker 1: come into his life, is that guy who would not
Speaker 1: have stopped for anyone. So Bill lets Frank in. He
Speaker 1: lets him wash up hot water. It's fantastic, He gets
Speaker 1: an extra so excited, just go to have a shower,
Speaker 1: easy in the shower, and then they have a meal
Speaker 1: that is so much better than anyone could have expected. Apocalypse.
Speaker 2: Frank has definitely never eaten a meal that good in
Speaker 2: like seven years. Even before the apocalypse, he was probably
Speaker 2: not eating that good. Like Bill makes a Michelin start,
Speaker 2: it's a really good meal, and he brings out the
Speaker 2: best wine, and you start to suddenly realize that Frank
Speaker 2: is not the only person who's seeking connection. Like Bill
Speaker 2: might be scared of making a connection of trusting someone else,
Speaker 2: but having this person in his house. He's taking it seriously.
Speaker 2: He wants to be a good host, and it's it's
Speaker 2: really sweet, and nick Offman just gives the most unbelievable
Speaker 2: performance that is so endearing and awkward, and as he
Speaker 2: kind of opens up to this idea that he's not alone,
Speaker 2: even just for this one night, he kind of starts
Speaker 2: to spread his wings. He shows off the wakers. Frank
Speaker 2: is like the most enthusiastic guest, like he's so happy
Speaker 2: to have the shower, to eat this delicious food, to
Speaker 2: drink the wine, like it's yeah, it's just really two
Speaker 2: of them are so good together and talking leg of
Speaker 2: rabbit with with garden vegetables with a jou with paired
Speaker 2: with a baujolet as Frank notes like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: the wine and protein pairing is perfect.
Speaker 1: Uh. Then Frank's like, oh, like I said, she leve,
Speaker 1: but before I leave, I want to play your piano,
Speaker 1: which I've been looking at this whole time. And he
Speaker 1: goes over. He goes through the music books that he
Speaker 1: has there. It's a lot of old people shit, but
Speaker 1: then there is a Linda Ronstat music book uh, and
Speaker 1: Frank sits down kind of hacks his way through a
Speaker 1: version of Linda Rod's stat's a long long time. Bill
Speaker 1: is like Bill, who we should note by the meal
Speaker 1: and his reaction to this has very high standards for everything,
Speaker 1: and you're ruining.
Speaker 2: He's playing like the jauntiest ship. It's like dun dud.
Speaker 2: This is really chunky, like b and Bill is.
Speaker 1: Like, no, absolutely, it's a ballad, my friend. So then
Speaker 1: Bill plays it and let's be let's be honest. Bill's
Speaker 1: rendition not appreciably better than Frank's.
Speaker 2: No, but it's it's like, I'm sorry, it's more it's
Speaker 2: more heart, it's more hot, fast, and you can tell
Speaker 2: there's this message that Bill Frank he just wanted to
Speaker 2: hack away a piano and sing a song there. But
Speaker 2: Bill is like, there's a there's a there's yearning.
Speaker 1: And Frank Frank notices the yearning and he says, who's
Speaker 1: the girl that you were singing about? And Bill's like,
Speaker 1: there's no girl, and Frank is like I know, and
Speaker 1: they kiss and they become lovers that night, and years
Speaker 1: pass and they become romantic partners, and then we go
Speaker 1: three years later, Bill and Frank are now experience the
Speaker 1: kind of normal growing pains of a long term relationship.
Speaker 2: There in the hilarious context of like the post apocalyptic,
Speaker 2: It's like Bob Frank wants to like do up the
Speaker 2: house and do up the street and do up the boutique,
Speaker 2: and he wants to kind of create a space where
Speaker 2: other people can come and be safe because he sees
Speaker 2: the wealth of what Bill has. Bill and Bill is like,
Speaker 2: absolutely fucking.
Speaker 1: Right, well he saves that for last first, you know, wisely,
Speaker 1: I think Frank says, Hey, I live here too. This
Speaker 1: is my home too, Yeah, this is my street. All
Speaker 1: I want to do is like, you know, do the lawns,
Speaker 1: maybe do some topiary, say sculptures, paint the houses. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll referb and then, which you know, a little bit
Speaker 1: of the rascal of Frank, which is like, and I've
Speaker 1: saved the most troubling part for last. I want to
Speaker 1: have friends over and we can't just.
Speaker 2: Been We'll stop.
Speaker 1: I'll stop you there we do, because I've already been
Speaker 1: talking to him. They're coming what And so then we
Speaker 1: flash to Joel and Tests having a wonderful lunch with
Speaker 1: Bill and Frank outside Bill unable to let go of
Speaker 1: his pistol throughout the meal, because I love when Frank
Speaker 1: is like, could you not? Could you just like at
Speaker 1: least not cock it.
Speaker 2: Also as well, surprise extra tests who thought we were
Speaker 2: going to get it. I'm hoping this means that this
Speaker 2: is a trend throughout that we might get flashbacks and
Speaker 2: Tests and Frank have this super sweet connection of just
Speaker 2: two people who are longing for something better. Bill and
Speaker 2: Joel they know they see each other, they see the
Speaker 2: connection that they have because Joel says to Bill, he
Speaker 2: says to him, I'm the same as you. Yes, I get.
Speaker 1: It, I get it. I get it. And Bill is
Speaker 1: angry about this, this the fact that there are strangers
Speaker 1: in the house. Frank goes with test, oh, I want
Speaker 1: to show you the inside, and Bill is like, the
Speaker 1: don't go inside you And Joel takes that opportunity, the privacy,
Speaker 1: that private moment with a gun on him to say, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: this is a relationship that can actually work. First of all,
Speaker 1: I understand you're wary of us. That's fine, but we
Speaker 1: have we have things that you will need. We have
Speaker 1: machine parts, we have medicine that your fence is going
Speaker 1: to fail in a year, I can get you galvanized
Speaker 1: wire that will last the rest of your life, like
Speaker 1: just any your lives.
Speaker 2: Because he realizes that that's really what Bill's doing. He
Speaker 2: sees that immediately that Bill the paston he's really keeping safe,
Speaker 2: is Frank?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's you're so right to note that, like
Speaker 1: Frank and tests immediately get on because what if Frank
Speaker 1: has given something to test? Maybe it's the pistol at
Speaker 1: that time, who knows? Tess like, are you sure like
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, this is this is You're gonna
Speaker 1: come back and relationship. Yeah, we're gonna.
Speaker 2: Trade it's a gun.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: We then find out what he traded it for.
Speaker 1: This is a relationship. And by the way, I have
Speaker 1: an idea for a code, so when we get on
Speaker 1: the radio, no one will know what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: and we'll use and this is the genesis.
Speaker 2: Of the pop must He's code. Yeah.
Speaker 1: As they leave, Joel warns Bill, hey, listen, the you've
Speaker 1: got a great set up here. The infactor are not
Speaker 1: going to be a problem. But raiders at some point
Speaker 1: are gonna get wind of what you have. They're gonna come.
Speaker 1: They're gonna come at night. They're smarter than the infected.
Speaker 1: They're gonna come armed, and they're gonna come here, meaning harm,
Speaker 1: and Bill is like, don't worry about it. We go
Speaker 1: ten years into the future now twenty thirteen, ten years
Speaker 1: of Bill's town to twenty thirteen. The town's defensive perimeter
Speaker 1: now includes stacks of vehicles.
Speaker 2: Were they doing the holes in the vehicles?
Speaker 1: So we understand that there's been battles fought here. Frank,
Speaker 1: they've gotten to the point in their long term relationship
Speaker 1: now where you start thinking about how do I keep
Speaker 1: this person around as long as possible. Frank has has
Speaker 1: put into place a kind of health regimen he's getting
Speaker 1: Bill jogging. Bill is very bad at jogging. Wants to
Speaker 1: keep Bill as hail and hearty as he can for
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future. And then he's like, I have a
Speaker 1: surprise for you, and it's a garden of strawberries. He
Speaker 1: got a packet of seeds for another gun.
Speaker 2: So we know he's set up some kind of gun
Speaker 2: running with tests. And at first Bill's like you see
Speaker 2: the old Bill where he's like, which gun and Frank's
Speaker 2: just like one. He's like, it's a little one. Don't
Speaker 2: worry about it. And then there's this whole it's hard
Speaker 2: to just watch the episode if you haven't watched it.
Speaker 2: I know, like a lot of our listeners listen to
Speaker 2: us first, especially with the Last of Us, because it's scary.
Speaker 1: Don't do that.
Speaker 2: But this is an episode that is not This is
Speaker 2: not a scary episode. It's scary in an existential heartbreaking way,
Speaker 2: but it's not jump scar scary. And there's so many
Speaker 2: brilliant moments. But this moment where Nick Hofman and Murray
Speaker 2: Bartle like eat these strawberries together and Bill is so
Speaker 2: happy to eat the strawberry is just so unbelievably full
Speaker 2: of joy. This was the first moment when I tear
Speaker 2: it up, and then I didn't stop crying for like
Speaker 2: the rest of that episode.
Speaker 1: The first moment that I teared up is right here
Speaker 1: where so they've been running clearly, like you know, Frank
Speaker 1: wants to keep Bill around, there's no healthcare out here,
Speaker 1: and Bill, understanding what Frank is doing, says I'm sorry
Speaker 1: for what getting older faster than you. And then this
Speaker 1: wonderful moment where Frank puts Bill at ease, just saying
Speaker 1: I like you older, Yeah, like you know that the
Speaker 1: older means we're still We're still here. And then Bill
Speaker 1: makes it a really vulnerable admission, and it's a thing
Speaker 1: again if you think about Bills as I think we do,
Speaker 1: as as a version of Joel, the kind of guy
Speaker 1: that Joel is, but who's let love into his life.
Speaker 1: He then makes this admission that I don't think Joel
Speaker 1: could ever make, which is, I was never afraid before
Speaker 1: you showed up, Like he gave me a thing to
Speaker 1: be afraid of losing. And it's just really really vulnerable,
Speaker 1: touching moment. Sometime later, weeks, months, who knows, maybe years,
Speaker 1: raiders come against the town. It's definitely not the first time,
Speaker 1: as he saw by the by the cars stacked up.
Speaker 2: Around, and we see by how specific Bill's traps are.
Speaker 2: He has flamethrowers that are sitting people on fire. He
Speaker 2: knows why they're gonna call me, he knows why the
Speaker 2: weaknesses are. But Frank, I feel like I feel like
Speaker 2: I love Frank, but I feel like Frank has not
Speaker 2: learned the lessons that Bill would want him to live.
Speaker 1: I think he's ready. I mean like he looked like
Speaker 1: he could, He looked like he knew his way around
Speaker 1: a pistol. Bill's doing finite but in terms of.
Speaker 2: Like, don't leave the door open, don't be like there
Speaker 2: was many times when I was yelling at him. But
Speaker 2: they they you know what they come out of it.
Speaker 1: Well, I will say, I think that the fact that
Speaker 1: Bill is already up shooting at these guys tells you
Speaker 1: a lot about their relationships.
Speaker 2: Exactly, which is like, Frank stays in the house.
Speaker 1: You stay in the house, like I will deal with this,
Speaker 1: you stay safe. Frank goes out to Bill, who, by
Speaker 1: the way, is like standing in the middle of the
Speaker 1: street shooting and guy's go behind something.
Speaker 2: Now Bill is like too, he's too rough and ready.
Speaker 2: He doesn't care.
Speaker 1: He's just behind anything, literally anything.
Speaker 2: It would have been good for Bill if he listened
Speaker 2: to that advice, because then he has.
Speaker 1: So Frank helps him into the house. And here again
Speaker 1: is this wonderful, touching moment where I love these moments
Speaker 1: where you see different where you see either Bill or
Speaker 1: Frank take the lead in the relationship and the other
Speaker 1: person let them. So here's Bill is wounded, lays Frank
Speaker 1: lays him on the table. He's getting some wine on
Speaker 1: his hands so he can he can touch the wound
Speaker 1: and get it ready. All the while Bill is thinking
Speaker 1: he's done, and he's telling Frank, listen, I have a
Speaker 1: list ready for you, and Frank is like, let's keep
Speaker 1: Bill talking. Yeah, tell me about I've made copies of
Speaker 1: the keys. You need to reach out to Joel because
Speaker 1: you can't be here alone. Joel will look off to
Speaker 1: Joe and Frank says something really touching, I'm not alone.
Speaker 1: You're here. Where am I going? And then years pass again.
Speaker 2: And they do a really good bait and switch chair right, Well,
Speaker 2: you see these two bited old guys and one of
Speaker 2: them is in the wheelchair, and you assume it's Bill
Speaker 2: because of the shoot thing, but we see that it's
Speaker 2: actually Frank.
Speaker 1: And they've got to be I mean, Bill's got to
Speaker 1: be late sixties at this point, right, and time has
Speaker 1: taken a brutal toll. Frank is sick, probably cancer. He's
Speaker 1: in a wheelchairs. As you noted, they're spending as much
Speaker 1: time as they can, drinking up the days in this
Speaker 1: home that they built. But then you know, they wake
Speaker 1: up one morning after going to bed together, Frank laying
Speaker 1: in bed, clearly thinking about how he's going to tell
Speaker 1: Bill what he wants to do in the morning. And
Speaker 1: then the morning comes and he says, listen, this is
Speaker 1: the last day. This is it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he actually even and this is like a
Speaker 2: really powerful representation I think of just like, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just something you don't get to see. He basically pulls
Speaker 2: himself out of bed and into his wheelchair and he
Speaker 2: does it over the night. He wants to do that
Speaker 2: one saying himself.
Speaker 1: He's like, He's like, yeah, don't do that, Like I
Speaker 1: told you what happens if you fall asleep. He's so
Speaker 1: worried about him and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, Frank's like no, He's like, today
Speaker 2: is the last day.
Speaker 1: And he says, here's what we're gonna do. We're going
Speaker 1: to have a great day. I'm gonna take you to the boutique.
Speaker 1: You're gonna wear what I say.
Speaker 2: You're gonna wear what I pick right.
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna make a great dinner. We're gonna bring
Speaker 1: the wine out. We're gonna crush some pills on the wine.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna drink it. Then I'm gonna fall asleep in
Speaker 1: your arms. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: And the outfits he's picking is so they can get married.
Speaker 2: They're gonna they're gonna get married. They're gonna have this
Speaker 2: ceremony the two of them. Then they're gonna eat dinner,
Speaker 2: they're gonna drink a delicious wine. Then they're gonna put
Speaker 2: some pills in a slightly cheaper bottle of wine so
Speaker 2: they don't ruin it. And and Frank's gonna kill himself
Speaker 2: and he wants Bill to continue on because he loves Bill,
Speaker 2: and uh, and we get to see this day that
Speaker 2: they shared together, and it is.
Speaker 1: Just well Bill is first. Bill is like, absolutely, I
Speaker 1: can't do it. I can't absolutely can't do it. I'm
Speaker 1: not strong enough to do that. He breaks down, But
Speaker 1: eventually because of the love and respect and the relationship
Speaker 1: they've forged. Which thinking back to that first argument where
Speaker 1: Frank wants to do the lawns and paint and stuff
Speaker 1: and invite people over and Bill's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: the basis of their relationship has been Frank pushing Bill
Speaker 1: out of his comfort zone and Bill not wanting to
Speaker 1: go there, but ultimately going there because of his respect
Speaker 1: for Frank. And there's a great and it's working out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a great line here where Frank says
Speaker 2: to him, like do you love me and he's like yeah,
Speaker 2: and he says, well, then love me the way I want,
Speaker 2: which is to have this day and then to I mean,
Speaker 2: being sick is is so much pain just in an
Speaker 2: allegedly functioning society, let alone he's dealing with this in
Speaker 2: a situation where he says to Frank, you know, he
Speaker 2: says to Bill, there was no for this before it
Speaker 2: has happened, So what are we going to do? You know,
Speaker 2: and then they get to have this like and you
Speaker 2: know what, I just I was so proud of Bill
Speaker 2: in this moment, which is very funny to say for
Speaker 2: a character that you've known for like forty five minutes,
Speaker 2: because he just embraces it. But he listens to what
Speaker 2: Frank wants and he actually gives him that day. They
Speaker 2: dress up, they dress real fancy, they spend time together,
Speaker 2: they give each other rings, and then you know, Bill
Speaker 2: cooks him the same meal that he had the first
Speaker 2: day that he ever came to his house, and he
Speaker 2: replicates it and he cooks that meal and it is
Speaker 2: just such a beautiful moment. I mean, I was just
Speaker 2: crying like NonStop. It was post strawberries. It was just
Speaker 2: balling ball and Ballin Like these performances, there's so much
Speaker 2: love and nuance and tenderness and complexity, and it is
Speaker 2: just such an astounding piece of television.
Speaker 1: But then the wine comes out, and Frank drinks his wine,
Speaker 1: watches Frank drink his wine and make sure he's drinking it.
Speaker 1: Then Bill drinks his wine, and then Frank realizes, oh,
Speaker 1: there was already there was. You took some too, and
Speaker 1: Bills like, yeah, there's enough in there to kill a horse. Frank.
Speaker 1: Now it's Frank's turn to get pushed out of his
Speaker 1: comfort zone. He says, you know, I don't support this.
Speaker 1: This is not what I wanted, but you know, from
Speaker 1: an objective point of view, it's and they go up
Speaker 1: to bed to go to sleep together in each other's arms.
Speaker 1: Sometime later, probably days, a few days later, a week
Speaker 1: I think takes.
Speaker 2: It's unclear because and it's unclear for a purpose. Bill
Speaker 2: and Frank open and yeah, so in a recent enough
Speaker 2: time that no one else has found.
Speaker 1: The house, right from late summer to fall, Joel and
Speaker 1: Ellie arrive in the town and they find the house quiet.
Speaker 2: Joel is immediately like what the fuck. He knows there's
Speaker 2: a problem.
Speaker 1: The way he opens the door, knowing that Bill is
Speaker 1: a trap guy is very wary. He looks all around,
Speaker 1: goes to their bedroom, tells Ellie, U state right here.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go look around. Ellie finds the letter that
Speaker 1: Bill left and and she begins to read it. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Joel is looking around. He sees that Bill's car is
Speaker 1: there's stuff, there's kind there's like the ingredients for a
Speaker 1: car battery that are like in place, just need to
Speaker 1: be assembled and then charged. So he's got everything he
Speaker 1: needs to continue his mission. And then he returns to
Speaker 1: the house and Ellie's reading the letter, and Ellie reads
Speaker 1: it to him, and it's basically about you know how Bill,
Speaker 1: here's some of it. So I used to hate the world.
Speaker 1: I was happy when everyone died, but I was wrong
Speaker 1: because there was one person worth saving. And that's what
Speaker 1: I did. I saved him and I protected him. That's
Speaker 1: why men like you and me are here. We have
Speaker 1: a job to do, and God help any motherfuckers who
Speaker 1: stand in our way. I leave you all my weapons
Speaker 1: and equipment, use them to keep. And then she stops
Speaker 1: because it's tests written there. Joel then takes the letter.
Speaker 1: He reads the rest of it, and he makes a
Speaker 1: decision there that okay, we're going to continue with this mission.
Speaker 1: He asks Ellie to see her arm. It is completely healed,
Speaker 1: and he says, okay, here's what was up before we met.
Speaker 1: I have a brother. He was in the Fireflies. He's
Speaker 1: in Wyoming. He's in some kind of trouble. We're going there.
Speaker 1: Maybe he knows where your firefly lab is. And then
Speaker 1: Allie's like, great, hey, and about tests, Like now this
Speaker 1: the letter is brought back, this kind of wound of tests,
Speaker 1: and she wants to apologize in this moment, but he stops.
Speaker 1: He He's like, don't ever talk about tests. Never mentioned
Speaker 1: her name, and in fact, we're never going to talk
Speaker 1: about our own history.
Speaker 2: He's like, these are the rules if you want to
Speaker 2: care with me, no tests. And we were wondering last
Speaker 2: week if that was something we've been going to see,
Speaker 2: because that is a rule that Joel lays out in
Speaker 2: quite a harsh way in the in the game. In
Speaker 2: the game that kind of almost like sets him in
Speaker 2: out back, kind of away from the journey that they've
Speaker 2: been on together. But it quickly, you know, the nature
Speaker 2: of their relationship means that they quickly find new paths
Speaker 2: to kind of reconnect. But yeah, I was very interested
Speaker 2: to see he said, no tests, no talking about our pasts,
Speaker 2: Like we're basically just travelers on this road together. But
Speaker 2: it is really interesting because it is this letter from
Speaker 2: Bill that makes him decide to save Ellie. That's basically like,
Speaker 2: to take Ellie where she's going. This is the letter.
Speaker 2: We are here for one reason, to protect people. Guess what.
Speaker 2: That didn't happen with Tess. In Joe's mind, he's like,
Speaker 2: here's this child, look at her arm. Okay, she's healed.
Speaker 2: This is real, And in that moment, he takes on
Speaker 2: that full This is not Tess's mission that he's doing
Speaker 2: because he misses her. This is him becoming the protector,
Speaker 2: the person who is going to get her to wear
Speaker 2: she needs to go. It's like a huge moment, and
Speaker 2: I think they did a really brilliant job of bringing
Speaker 2: that to life in a slightly different way than the game.
Speaker 1: The rest of his ground rules are, you don't talk
Speaker 1: about your immunity because people will just kill you. People
Speaker 1: just kill you. They'll see the bite, they'll kill you.
Speaker 1: And then third of all, you do whatever I say.
Speaker 1: Whatever I say goes and Ellie agrees. In Bill's bunker,
Speaker 1: Joel takes Ellie down there and we discover that it
Speaker 1: was the nineteen eighties. Music was from Bill and Frank. Ellie,
Speaker 1: seeing a wall of guns, asks for a gun again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like fifty there. Once again.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: They then gather up what they need pack for the trip.
Speaker 1: Ellie's back in the house for a little while. She
Speaker 1: finds it a gun like either a nine millimeter or
Speaker 1: a twenty two, hidden in a desk, and she keeps
Speaker 1: it and they get in the truck, which Ellie has
Speaker 1: never been in a vehicle before. She doesn't know how
Speaker 1: to put on.
Speaker 2: She's like, this is like a spaceship. It's so cute
Speaker 2: because when you actually think about it, you're like, oh shit, yeah,
Speaker 2: cause it pretty crazy. It's like the Internet conversation. This
Speaker 2: whole episode has big Station eleven energy. Actually, it's all
Speaker 2: about like finding what keeps you going against like the
Speaker 2: most insurmountable odds.
Speaker 1: As they drive away, she puts a cassette tape in.
Speaker 1: It's Linda Ronstat's a long long time. Joel is about
Speaker 1: to be like, no, don't put any music, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to any music. One my oh wait, wait,
Speaker 1: hold on, this is good. This is good.
Speaker 2: I want to hear.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is good. This is Linda ronstat you this
Speaker 1: is this is a good one. And they drive off
Speaker 1: through the gates of town headed west, and then we
Speaker 1: get the last shot of the episode is like this
Speaker 1: a pullback through the open window from inside Bill and
Speaker 1: Frank's bedroom window. They're in there somewhere, but we don't
Speaker 1: ever see them dead. You only see the outside through
Speaker 1: the open window. And it's very, very consciously the exact
Speaker 1: same of the menu of the of The Last of
Speaker 1: Us menuscree.
Speaker 2: They have to press any button every time, and there
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: That's just simply one of the best hours of television
Speaker 1: that we've seen this year. X Ra even we'll be back,
Speaker 1: and we're back first, and we're going to get into
Speaker 1: a spoiler conversation that we're going to call out yes,
Speaker 1: but first I think what is really cool about this
Speaker 1: episode is the way that Bill and Frank's relationship is
Speaker 1: like a very pointed critique of Joel and the way
Speaker 1: he goes about Think about the way he just spoke
Speaker 1: to Ellie at the end. There you do what I say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also like there is this they sell it
Speaker 2: so well in the show because there's this This is
Speaker 2: not Joel's intention. Joel is not a predator, but there
Speaker 2: is this horrible power dynamic there where he's like this
Speaker 2: adult man who's like, you will do whatever I say.
Speaker 2: What I say goes, and you will have to do
Speaker 2: it if you're coming with me. There's just so much
Speaker 2: anger and fear that fuels everything that Joel does. Whereas
Speaker 2: Bill opened himself up to actually becoming somebody's partner and
Speaker 2: trusting them and believing in their agents and believing in
Speaker 2: their goodness and believing that they could bring something to
Speaker 2: their life, which is something that Joel has not managed
Speaker 2: to do since Sarah.
Speaker 1: Even with tests, yeah, I mean, even with the letter,
Speaker 1: which I think you're right to point out, is like
Speaker 1: a mission statement for Joe if you think about it.
Speaker 1: Joel has never done anything in this show as of
Speaker 1: yet that he's wanted to do. He didn't want to
Speaker 1: go and nothing's.
Speaker 2: Been of even his own agency.
Speaker 1: Right, He's getting dragged forward into one of the most
Speaker 1: formative relationships of his life. This this relationship he's going
Speaker 1: to have with Ellie, and every step of the way
Speaker 1: he didn't want to do it. He didn't want to go.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to go with Tests. He didn't want
Speaker 1: to bring her when he met Ellie when TS died,
Speaker 1: he wanted. He didn't want to.
Speaker 2: He didn't believe.
Speaker 1: Probably was thinking, I'm going to leave you with Bill
Speaker 1: and Frank.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can look after you. You're safe here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to drop you there.
Speaker 2: He says, there's somebody here who owes me a favor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And wouldn't that favor be to leave? Oh, you know
Speaker 2: what to do. You've got a call, you can take a.
Speaker 1: And I think it's that's the part that really hit
Speaker 1: me extremely hard, was that you know, Bill could just
Speaker 1: never if it wasn't for Frank, he never would have
Speaker 1: let anybody in his fortress town. And Joel is exactly
Speaker 1: like that. He's so beholden to his traumas and the
Speaker 1: fact that he quote unquote failed on the night the
Speaker 1: outbreak happened, that he like can't enjoy anything. I think
Speaker 1: about that that really telling moment where Tess says, Oh,
Speaker 1: can't you just like take the good news for you,
Speaker 1: just like accept that something good happened. Like Bill got
Speaker 1: to a place where he could accept something good happened
Speaker 1: where like he could accept that, Like Frank came into
Speaker 1: my life and that was really good, and now I
Speaker 1: am satisfied and I'm ready to go. Joel is like
Speaker 1: holding on to this terrible sadness and can't see can't
Speaker 1: see anything else for it. And it was so smart
Speaker 1: to use the Bill and Frank relationship. Is this spotlight
Speaker 1: on Joel as this wounded, traumatized person who can't listen
Speaker 1: to any of the people who he cares about. He
Speaker 1: doesn't he never listened to Tess, who dragged him on
Speaker 1: this mission. He's certainly not listening to Ellie. Like here's
Speaker 1: the thing, Okay, you don't want to give Ellie a gun.
Speaker 1: I get it. You know the open country more than
Speaker 1: she does. I get it. But why are we leaving
Speaker 1: this town right now?
Speaker 2: Like literally, why don't you handy some food?
Speaker 1: Stay here for a week. Teach her how to shoot safely,
Speaker 1: how to drive a car. Yeah, teach her how to
Speaker 1: drive a car, teach her how to do anything useful.
Speaker 1: But there's something in Joel that, because of how he
Speaker 1: failed Sarah wants to keep the people around him not infantilized.
Speaker 1: But I think you were right to point out. He
Speaker 1: wants to keep Ellie powerless and a weird way, not
Speaker 1: in any kind of like creepy way, no, but in
Speaker 1: a way of like I know best, I know what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. You don't. I'm gonna take care of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Especially it's like we know what Bill is like,
Speaker 2: there's probably meals packed in there. There's probably food for months.
Speaker 2: There's all kinds of stuff in that freezer.
Speaker 1: There's everything you could need.
Speaker 2: You could teach out to make traps. You could give
Speaker 2: her a different kind of weapon.
Speaker 1: You could full of music from every decade of popular
Speaker 1: music that existed, like it.
Speaker 2: Would I think now it's not running water.
Speaker 1: He's almost oh my god, electricity, why are we leaving
Speaker 1: this very what? Like you want to beat the snows? Like,
Speaker 1: what are we doing? You have a corrido.
Speaker 2: He's almost like out, He's almost like a shark. It's
Speaker 2: like he can't stop moving. He has to just keep
Speaker 2: going forward because if he stops, then he's gonna have
Speaker 2: to deal with what happened to Test. I mean, the
Speaker 2: reason Joel doesn't want to stay in the house is
Speaker 2: because he spent time with Test there. That why he
Speaker 2: doesn't want to remember that he ate the food there,
Speaker 2: that they had a nice time, that they had friends,
Speaker 2: friends that he never had, but he knows really they
Speaker 2: were friends. You get this moment where he goes outside
Speaker 2: with the letter and he almost.
Speaker 1: Is he crying.
Speaker 2: He's kind of keen aig. He's kind of silently yelling
Speaker 2: it's almost there, and he's out on that lawn where
Speaker 2: they spent this time together. But it is this is
Speaker 2: one of Joel's silliest It is this silliest moment because
Speaker 2: these two could have hunkered down here, even just for
Speaker 2: one night.
Speaker 1: They can just want to Joel, enjoy this, my guy
Speaker 1: the ground, Joel.
Speaker 2: What is the number one thing that we all know?
Speaker 1: You know this.
Speaker 2: Everyone who's ever watched a zombie movie or any kind
Speaker 2: of post apocalyptic story knows this. The worst thing out
Speaker 2: there is humans. Right here, there is no humans. Take
Speaker 2: your time, because wherever you're going next, it's going to
Speaker 2: go badly for you. Now you're gonna come up against enemies.
Speaker 2: You're gonna come up against dangerous things that are worse
Speaker 2: than the infected. So just take a minute not to mention.
Speaker 1: Do you want Ellie as this helpless package that you
Speaker 1: have to deliver, or do you want help because you're
Speaker 1: so right. Teach her to fucking drive drive a car,
Speaker 1: to make a trap, to make a trap, teacher to
Speaker 1: teach her to shoot a gun. Please just do it,
Speaker 1: you know, because you're gonna be out here facing a
Speaker 1: lot of danger, a knife, to do any amount of things.
Speaker 2: Have a conversation with her, ask her if she knows
Speaker 2: how to shoot a gun. She grew up in a
Speaker 2: zombie apocalypse. Let's just have a conversation. But Joel is
Speaker 2: he couldn't do it. It's a compulsion that he has
Speaker 2: to keep moving so that he doesn't have to deal
Speaker 2: with all of his loss.
Speaker 1: That's exactly that's exactly right. Yeah. Wow, what an episode.
Speaker 1: What a What a punch to the chest on a
Speaker 1: Sunday night? How do you go to sleep out?
Speaker 2: I know? It's literally like it's really funny because the
Speaker 2: episode opens and it continues our expectation of what the
Speaker 2: show is going to be. Joel and Ellie. They're in
Speaker 2: a beautiful forest. They come to a kind of post apocalyptic,
Speaker 2: messed up place. They have a conversation. We learned some
Speaker 2: more about what happened with the outbreak. That is kind
Speaker 2: of the shape of the show. So far and that's great,
Speaker 2: especially because Bella and Pager are so great, so it's
Speaker 2: like it's not routine, but it feels immediately like we've
Speaker 2: been tripped up when they throw you into this flashback
Speaker 2: that's actually the meat of the episode. I mean, the
Speaker 2: episode is an hour and fifteen minutes long, and I
Speaker 2: think the opening with Ellie and Joel is really that
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, and then you get almost this like hour
Speaker 2: with Frank and Bill, and it is just such thoughtful,
Speaker 2: kind good storytelling. And I really love the way that
Speaker 2: this expands on like the tiniest hints that were given
Speaker 2: about Bill and Frank. You know, Frank is dead in
Speaker 2: the game. Bill is alive, and we know that Frank.
Speaker 1: Left in the game. But Frank Bill Bill, he got rid.
Speaker 2: Of his partner because he didn't do this, that and
Speaker 2: the other. But that the implication was there that they
Speaker 2: were gay, but that was a gay character who had
Speaker 2: been killed off screen. You didn't know what how, and
Speaker 2: you don't really know about Bill. That's not a big
Speaker 2: major point of his life.
Speaker 1: This is to me.
Speaker 2: I saw a lot of people saying this is a deviation,
Speaker 2: but to me, this actually just felt like like the
Speaker 2: best adaptations do when I am playing this game, now,
Speaker 2: this just feels true to me, Like, yeah, sure I
Speaker 2: met Bill, so in this version they didn't die together
Speaker 2: or whatever. But that relationship, that expansion of those characters
Speaker 2: and that experience that they had together, that feels so
Speaker 2: true to the game. And I love this, this feeling
Speaker 2: about one of my I'd written about this on Instagram,
Speaker 2: but how much I like the film, But I saw
Speaker 2: something that was a really great take from one of
Speaker 2: my favorite film directors, Timo Tanto, who's like this incredible
Speaker 2: Indonesian horror director, and he says, like The Last of
Speaker 2: Us was never about like vengeance. It was like about
Speaker 2: finding love that it was.
Speaker 1: The game was never about vengeance.
Speaker 2: He's like, it's not like the quest is not like
Speaker 2: Joel on a quest for vengeance. No, he's the Last
Speaker 2: of Us. Yeah, well there's a different vengeance. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: he's like he's like part one, it's never about like
Speaker 2: vengeance or it's about like finding love that it's worth
Speaker 2: being violent for. It's like that's why you're violent, is
Speaker 2: like these things that you can take care of. And
Speaker 2: I kind of love this to me. I was like,
Speaker 2: it's about finding things you can love and things that
Speaker 2: help you get through. But there's also this reality of
Speaker 2: like Bill killed many many people for Frank, Bill would
Speaker 2: kill raiders, Bill would kill the infected Joel not murdered
Speaker 2: multiple people on the Quest for Test and in the
Speaker 2: Last of Us, those two things are aligned, like it's
Speaker 2: like what will you do to protect the people you love?
Speaker 2: And that obviously, as we know and people have played
Speaker 2: the game, no is the biggest question about. Well, that's
Speaker 2: the Last of Us.
Speaker 1: It's a perfect opportunity then to talk about the Last
Speaker 1: of Us game in a spoiler filled way. So right
Speaker 1: now we're gonna transition to a spoiler conversation for people
Speaker 1: who have finished the Last of Us game.
Speaker 2: Yes, so we don't care about spoilers, but we don't
Speaker 2: care about sor this will this could potentially we haven't
Speaker 2: seen ahead of show. We haven't seen ahead, but it
Speaker 2: is most likely that this will be part of the
Speaker 2: show and will be a huge spoilers. So stop listening
Speaker 2: now if you don't want to spoiler.
Speaker 1: Spoiler, spoilers, boilers, boils, spoil that. So for those of
Speaker 1: you who have finished the Last of Us Part one
Speaker 1: game or know about the ending, let's talk about the ending. Now,
Speaker 1: So the ending of the game. Shocking moment you get
Speaker 1: to the lab, right as Joel. You as Joel, bring
Speaker 1: Ellie to the lab.
Speaker 2: This is what you've been playing for the whole game.
Speaker 1: This is great, right, it's going to save the world, right,
Speaker 1: you're you. She is in the room with the doctors,
Speaker 1: and you discover that whatever this process is that is
Speaker 1: going to bring the immunity out of her is going
Speaker 1: to kill her.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They I believe they have to take the fungus
Speaker 2: out of her brain, and it would kill her.
Speaker 1: It would kill her. And so Joel decides to kill
Speaker 1: everybody in the lab take Ellie out, Okay. Then Ellie
Speaker 1: wakes up and Joel lies straight to her face about
Speaker 1: what happened.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, there was so many people that, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know who are immune and and they've never actually
Speaker 2: been able to find a kill it.
Speaker 1: So you're free to go, right, So, and Ellie kind of.
Speaker 2: Chooses to believe Joel in that moment. I feel like
Speaker 2: I feel like it's I feel like it's she does.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like she knows.
Speaker 2: I don't feel like she thinks he's telling the truth.
Speaker 2: I feel like in that moment, there's like a question there,
Speaker 2: but she knows that this is like you've got to survive.
Speaker 1: So here's what I could not stop thinking about watching
Speaker 1: last night's episode, and that is Bill and Frank is
Speaker 1: again is a direct criticism of Joel. And it's the
Speaker 1: way their relationship is built on this respect for each other,
Speaker 1: this love for each other, that is that can allow
Speaker 1: for the other person's voice to be her an agency,
Speaker 1: an agency. I I get what I get Joel being like, no,
Speaker 1: you're not killing this person that I love. Okay. What
Speaker 1: is fucked up to me is that you don't ask
Speaker 1: her what she wants to do. Yeah, does she want
Speaker 1: to save the world? You know? Like, here's what we
Speaker 1: know about Ellie. Is this all throughout the game and
Speaker 1: the show thus far, Ellie is the person who cares
Speaker 1: about everyone more than herself. She sees Marlene shot. She's
Speaker 1: known Marlene for three days, mostly as her jailor. She's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, are you okay? Tess is infected. They're
Speaker 1: leaving her. She's going two days, she's gonna die. She's like,
Speaker 1: we can't leave Tess. We can't leave her.
Speaker 2: She has that thing that Sarah has at the beginning,
Speaker 2: we should have gone back, We should have gone back,
Speaker 2: we should have gone back. I love that read so much,
Speaker 2: and I think it is a direct critique. I also
Speaker 2: I'm just very interested to see the route that they
Speaker 2: go with that narrative. I think it's one of the
Speaker 2: best choices of any video game ever. I also think
Speaker 2: as well, I love stories. I talk about this book
Speaker 2: a lot when we talk about the show, but the
Speaker 2: Go with All the Gifts by Mike Carrey is so
Speaker 2: good and it ends in a very equivalent way, but
Speaker 2: with more of the agency put on the young girl
Speaker 2: in the center of the story. And I kind of
Speaker 2: like this idea of like who gets to choose who
Speaker 2: lives and dies in a zombie apocalypse? And is this
Speaker 2: just the nature of evolution? Like is should should Ellie
Speaker 2: die for a cure that might not work that would
Speaker 2: also end up killing it. It's really interesting. But the
Speaker 2: point is one they do a great like shadow of
Speaker 2: the Colossiest style trick by getting you to go on
Speaker 2: this journey and then mass murdering all the people trying
Speaker 2: to save the world and being like peace. That's incredible,
Speaker 2: but also as well, it's all about Joel's selfishness that
Speaker 2: isn't kind of a greater story. He is not wondering
Speaker 2: like who gets to choose who lives and dies? He's like,
Speaker 2: this is my child. I love her, and you are
Speaker 2: not going to kill her again, Fedra, fuck you.
Speaker 1: And it's the difference between you know, Frank saying to Bill,
Speaker 1: did you love me? Then love me the way I
Speaker 1: want you to exactly and Bill listening. Joel, if the
Speaker 1: story plays out the way it does in the game,
Speaker 1: will never get to the place where he can listen
Speaker 1: to anything that Ellie has to say, because he's always
Speaker 1: going to feel like I know better. I am the protector.
Speaker 1: God help anybody who gets in the way of me
Speaker 1: protecting you. And that's going to take any form that
Speaker 1: I deem necessary. And I'm going to keep from you
Speaker 1: all the information that I feel like is dangerous to
Speaker 1: you or is going to be troubling to you, and
Speaker 1: to act on, to act on your love for someone
Speaker 1: is understandable to do so. When the Steaks are the
Speaker 1: extinction of the human race, everybody else's family that is
Speaker 1: out here in the world them potentially dying, you know,
Speaker 1: dark centuries of barbarity and and raiders and slavers and
Speaker 1: all the bad things that are out there, like you
Speaker 1: could end.
Speaker 2: It big spoiler, a lot that will come back to
Speaker 2: bite Joel in the Lost of Us pot too. He
Speaker 2: will learn that lesson that there are other people who
Speaker 2: have families and other people who ones.
Speaker 1: And to not even like run it by Ellie, like
Speaker 1: I understand that that's it's a weight and a respon
Speaker 1: possibility that no one should have to bear. But to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, so here's the situation. Would you have
Speaker 1: wanted to go through with this if you could have
Speaker 1: a shot at.
Speaker 2: I think also, I do think that's actually a really
Speaker 2: interesting point. And I do think it makes the complexity
Speaker 2: of that ending kind of even more interesting because feder
Speaker 2: also don't tell her, And I think there's something very interesting,
Speaker 2: And like, I love the way that they chose to
Speaker 2: make this choice because they put you and make you
Speaker 2: so complicit, because it would be easier to make it
Speaker 2: more sympathetic by like having Ellie wake up and be like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this, or hear them and
Speaker 2: say I don't want to die, but they don't do that.
Speaker 2: Joel just tricks her, kills everyone, and breezes off and
Speaker 2: then lies to her. So it's really interesting. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: very I'm very interested. Now with the second season being announced,
Speaker 2: I'm very happy that they made this as one season.
Speaker 2: I think that ending has to be the end of
Speaker 2: this season for it to work. Now, how they're going
Speaker 2: to play season two, I think is really the big
Speaker 2: guest theory, because you know, Craig Mason, I think at
Speaker 2: the premiere he was saying that it's more than one season,
Speaker 2: which I would agree with. But the question is where
Speaker 2: do you start? How long do you how do you
Speaker 2: adapt the shocking opening of the second game, how soon
Speaker 2: do you do it? It will be very interesting to see,
Speaker 2: And I mean this has been such a huge hit
Speaker 2: for HBO that I think this is probably a this
Speaker 2: is a get making it as soon as you can.
Speaker 1: I think that this season Bill and Frank and the
Speaker 1: way they told that story is going to make the
Speaker 1: punch of Joel's decision, whatever it's going to be, it's
Speaker 1: going to make it even more.
Speaker 2: They could even do It's a nine episode season, so
Speaker 2: they could pull a game of Fernes and have episode
Speaker 2: eight be huge and then have the finale be kind
Speaker 2: of the smaller, more intimate fallout similar in tone and
Speaker 2: vibe to Bill and Frank, which is just him and
Speaker 2: Elli driving off afterwards and kind of dealing with the
Speaker 2: ramifications and the lies exact exactly. I mean, I'm so
Speaker 2: interested to see how they because it is not the
Speaker 2: hero's journey that we are used to.
Speaker 1: No, it's like it'sol is Like it's like if you
Speaker 1: entrusted the worst fucking hobbit with bringing the Ring of
Speaker 1: Power to mount do you know, like he's the best
Speaker 1: at killing everybody, And it's.
Speaker 2: Like if you just gave it to Golm and told
Speaker 2: him it's a strate because he's going to keep it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was just, man, the way that that
Speaker 1: episode made me think about the ending of the game
Speaker 1: is really amazing, and it's just so well written, so
Speaker 1: well done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I definitely think that's a not just
Speaker 2: because I mean it's only January, so it's obviously like
Speaker 2: the best episode of TV we've seen so far. But
Speaker 2: I mean that's unless we have the best year of
Speaker 2: TV that we've had in like two decades. That's going
Speaker 2: to be on every best of list because I mean
Speaker 2: there's just nothing like it. And for Murray and and Nick,
Speaker 2: that's that's got to be award system shutdown. I mean
Speaker 2: they were just so good.
Speaker 1: Well, end of spoiler conversation. Hopefully it has ended. It
Speaker 1: has ended. Now play the game. Go play the game.
Speaker 1: Up next Nerdout.
Speaker 2: In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you
Speaker 2: love and why, or as you have also kindly been doing,
Speaker 2: share a very cool theory, the weird of the better
Speaker 2: that I have to say, you guys will have very
Speaker 2: legit theories compared to like our Timboil theories. Adam Pitch
Speaker 2: is a new theory today about Braun, one of the
Speaker 2: characters we talk about so much when it comes to
Speaker 2: Star Wars. And if you don't know the character, you
Speaker 2: first appeared in Timothy's Arn's Thorn trilogy and now Timothy
Speaker 2: came back after he was made canon, and he is
Speaker 2: just a blue skinned evil alien that everybody loves to hate.
Speaker 1: Tactical strategic genius, yeah, I mean he is political genius.
Speaker 1: He's one of the.
Speaker 2: Ultimate Star Wars villains. And when he was brought back
Speaker 2: into canon, it was just such a huge and I
Speaker 2: think that what Adam is proposing here is is very realistic.
Speaker 2: So Jason, I'll leave you to read the thing.
Speaker 1: Okay Adam writes, after seeing the Skywalker saga, we've all
Speaker 1: noticed the large number of characters whose absence in the
Speaker 1: finale is glaring. Dave Filoni is known to be an
Speaker 1: encyclopedia of Star Wars knowledge and could provide an answer
Speaker 1: as to why those characters are missing. I postulate postulating.
Speaker 1: That's how I postulating right now. I postulate that Thron
Speaker 1: may have recruited them to the chis Ascendancy Dunk dun dum.
Speaker 1: He continues in the Throng novels, Thron had been recruiting
Speaker 1: people to the chiesss cause after the fall of the Empire,
Speaker 1: Thron could no longer see the remnants of the Empire
Speaker 1: as a possible ally for the Chists. That's you know,
Speaker 1: they were not strong enough. We know from the Mandalorian
Speaker 1: and Rebels that Ahsoka is actively searching for Ezra and
Speaker 1: Grand Admiral Thron. Thron would likely see Ahsoka, Ezra, Grogu
Speaker 1: and others as assets down to ch if he successfully
Speaker 1: convinces some of all of them to go help the Chesse.
Speaker 1: That is a plausible explanation for their absence during the
Speaker 1: Rise of the First Order.
Speaker 2: Wow Wow, I mean that would probably be like the
Speaker 2: biggest twist of all time. If when Thorn showed up,
Speaker 2: he'd like recruited some of people's most favorite Force users
Speaker 2: to the chessis andency, everyone would be like screaming. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think with the Ahsoka show, yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's not long until we see live action Thorn. It's
Speaker 2: got to happen, right People thought it was going to
Speaker 2: be Richet Ye Grant, which would have been great casting
Speaker 2: in the older Rise of Skywalka. But you know, I
Speaker 2: think it's I think we're gonna see it. I think
Speaker 2: it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: So we're operating right now in a kind of time
Speaker 1: period of Star Wars history that is not it's you know,
Speaker 1: post Imperial the Rise of the First Order, and we
Speaker 1: don't know a ton of what's going on there. But
Speaker 1: this would be fascinating. I wonder man Thron with Grogu.
Speaker 2: I mean, that would be dangerous. Oh my god, imagine
Speaker 2: if it with Thrawn, who saved Ggu because he wanted
Speaker 2: to use him.
Speaker 1: I could see Thron and Ezra too. I could see,
Speaker 1: you know, Ezra had those kind of flirtations with the
Speaker 1: dark Side or at least with a different No, it's
Speaker 1: just it was the dark.
Speaker 2: Direct all the days, we would have called it the
Speaker 2: Gray Jedi, but apparently you say that now you get
Speaker 2: in trouble. So I'm gonna say a flirtation with dark Side.
Speaker 1: But I could I could see Ezra working with Throng.
Speaker 2: I do think something very interesting about this is Grogu
Speaker 2: rejected the Jedi, chose the man Laura ways, so he
Speaker 2: doesn't fin Ahsoka rejected the Jedi, did not become a Jedi. Ezra,
Speaker 2: like you said, has had these flotations and existed outside
Speaker 2: of the classic Jedi space. So that is a very
Speaker 2: interesting read because those are characters with that very specific
Speaker 2: thing in common. They are not Jedi as we specifically
Speaker 2: know them, and they kind of of all rejected it
Speaker 2: certain points in their journey.
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of Thron's backstory is gonna be
Speaker 1: canon when they bring him over it ac.
Speaker 2: I believe that the Zon original trilogy has been recanonized
Speaker 2: and needed a new Throorn trilogy, so we have that.
Speaker 1: To draw from.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know me, I'm a legends, I'm a
Speaker 2: legend superstan Aka the EU. So anything that brings those
Speaker 2: kind of wild that wild West of Star Wars storytelling
Speaker 2: in I mean, also we have the Acolyte coming out,
Speaker 2: which is going to be you know, through the told
Speaker 2: through the eyes of a Sith. I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of interesting space that we could see some of
Speaker 2: these legends characters and a character like Thorn, who is
Speaker 2: animated canon but has not yet made it to live action,
Speaker 2: come into play. I would love to see it. I
Speaker 2: think that when they bring Thorn, that's going to be
Speaker 2: like a whole kind of different era of Star Wars
Speaker 2: as we know that.
Speaker 1: I've got to pitch I want. I want to see
Speaker 1: a imperial political drama like House of Cards. Okay, but
Speaker 1: it's Moth Tarkin verse Thron, both of them like jockeying
Speaker 1: for position.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a single lightsaber insight, you know much and
Speaker 2: or but like hyper political.
Speaker 1: Hyper political, just them like chess moves against each other,
Speaker 1: each trying to usurp the other, to be like the guy,
Speaker 1: the guy, the number one, number one guy, and then
Speaker 1: and then Darth Vader being like the wild card because
Speaker 1: he thinks he's the guy. I would like to see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to see it.
Speaker 1: Man, that was really really fun. Adam thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you have those theories or passions that
Speaker 2: you want to share, you know, we've had adubts about
Speaker 2: all kinds of cool stuff and the theory train is
Speaker 2: running strong, so hit us up at x ray at
Speaker 2: cricket dot com and as always, the instructions are in
Speaker 2: the show notes.
Speaker 1: Well, that's it for this really fun episode. What are
Speaker 1: great episodes to record and a fun thing to talk
Speaker 1: about today, Rosie, any plugs?
Speaker 2: Yes, I will be writing all kinds of cool stuff.
Speaker 2: We're coming up to Antman and the Wasp time. You
Speaker 2: can check out my writing ign notice then of geek Polygon,
Speaker 2: all those cool places you can find me a Rosie
Speaker 2: marks on Instagram or later boxed and yeah where people find.
Speaker 1: You, you can find me right here twice a week,
Speaker 1: yeah baby, and Fridays in your podcast feed and other places.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that later. Catch the next episode on Friday,
Speaker 1: February fourth for a little mailbag action. Remember, we are
Speaker 1: bringing you to episodes a week, two episodes a week.
Speaker 1: That's one, two episodes a week. Make a peace sign.
Speaker 1: That's how many episodes a week we are bringing you.
Speaker 2: And if you like those episodes, then subscribe on YouTube
Speaker 2: where we are now putting up the whole episodes, and
Speaker 2: you can follow us on XRV pod on Twitter and
Speaker 2: check out our discord, which we've been shouting out a
Speaker 2: lot because it's a lot of fun. We've got a
Speaker 2: ton of great members and they love to talk about
Speaker 2: all the things we love to talk about. We do
Speaker 2: him watchpot. He's for the last of us and me
Speaker 2: and Jason Odd there. So yeah, make sure you check
Speaker 2: out the discord and show.
Speaker 1: It some love. Five star ratings. We need them, we
Speaker 1: gotta have them. We will time you're giving them to us.
Speaker 1: Here's one from our crow Detroit. Great, great, great. The
Speaker 1: opportunity to spend time with Jason Rosie is truly one
Speaker 1: of the highlights.
Speaker 2: Of my week.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I'm an old school comic collector, sci
Speaker 1: fi reader, movie fan. You are my people. Yeah, one
Speaker 1: of us. Let's go us. X ray Vision is a
Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord
Speaker 1: and Sol Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself
Speaker 1: and Sandy's rhad Are editing and sound designers by Vascilla's Photopoulos.
Speaker 1: Dylon Villanueva and Matt de Group provide video production. Support
Speaker 1: Alex Rellaford handle social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for
Speaker 1: the music, See you next time. Bye bye. Joel's got
Speaker 1: to hang out for a little while. Man, what the fuck.