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Speaker 1: Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for HBO's The Last of

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Speaker 1: Us episode three. Plus at the end of that conversation,

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Speaker 1: we're going to have a spoiler filled conversation that will

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Speaker 1: spoil the Last of Us video game. So if you

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Speaker 1: have finished the Last of this video game, you will

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Speaker 1: be able to listen to that conversation. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't care about that, you will also be able to

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Speaker 1: listen to that conversation. Don't worry, We're also going to

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Speaker 1: call that out very very loudly, very very obviously when

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Speaker 1: we get to that point in the conversation to give

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Speaker 1: you an opportunity to hit stop and move on. You

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Speaker 1: have been warned. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and

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Speaker 1: I'm Rosey Night and welcome to x ray Vision, the

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Speaker 1: Crooked Media podcast where we dived it's your favorite shows, movies, comics,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, we are gonna be digging into the

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Speaker 2: airlock on one of the most heartbreaking episodes of TV

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Speaker 2: sure that you will see in a long time, The

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Speaker 2: Last of Us Episode three. I'm Ready, but I'm not Ready.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely a like a little bit of a devastating

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Speaker 1: hit to take on a Sunday, like at ten o'clock

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Speaker 1: at night to like turn that off and be like, fuck,

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Speaker 1: now I gotta go to sleep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do I do with my life now? And

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Speaker 2: in that out we got a very exciting Star Wars

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Speaker 2: theory from one of our lissons.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's get into it. We're shipping out of the

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Speaker 1: airlock and into the beautiful, scenic streets of bill'stown for

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Speaker 1: the heart wrenching third episode of HBO's The Last of Us.

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Speaker 1: What an incredible hour of television title A long long

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Speaker 1: time written by Craig, isn't directed by Peter Horr. It's

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Speaker 1: just an incredible hour of storytelling. We opened ten miles

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Speaker 1: west of Boston. It's early morning. Joel as his as

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Speaker 1: is his extremely compartmentalized way, has gone off alone to

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Speaker 1: mourn Tests. He makes a cairn on the banks of

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Speaker 1: a river and he goes back to the campsite that

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Speaker 1: he's sharing with Ellie. Ellie is torn by the loss

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Speaker 1: of Tests and her potential culpability for that, but she's

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Speaker 1: holding it together and already just seeing them. There's signs

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Speaker 1: that Joel is warming to her, despite the fact that yeah,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want treating her with frostiness. He's letting her

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Speaker 1: user it's jacket as a blanket. He shares his food,

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Speaker 1: presumably tests food.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's whether it's an uncomfortable alliance. But Joel he

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Speaker 2: he remembers what tests his lost words. Well, you know,

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Speaker 2: he knows this was important tests even if he kind

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Speaker 2: of resents Ellie for.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's a working man, and he's a man

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Speaker 1: that will do the job whether or not it's a

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Speaker 1: job he enjoys, you know, doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Really good way out She has very Joel, he's he's

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Speaker 2: never really changed over these twenty years.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's like, did he love working as a contractor?

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Speaker 1: I doubt it.

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Speaker 2: Did he do it?

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Speaker 1: Did he do it? He did it? Ellie says, I've

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Speaker 1: never been in the woods, more bugs than I thought

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Speaker 1: trying to make small talk. Joel doesn't want to make

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Speaker 1: small talk, does want to make any kind of talk.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't want to be talking talking.

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Speaker 1: But Ellie clearly wants to like preempt any kind of

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Speaker 1: test talk and get something off her chest. She points out,

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Speaker 1: And I think pretty I.

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Speaker 2: Loved this moment. I thought it was like it really

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Speaker 2: sets up who Ellie is.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, she basically says Hey, don't blame me for this,

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Speaker 1: like that was terrible what happened.

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Speaker 2: She's like, you made a you has chose to call

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Speaker 2: you wanted Joel battery or whatever, and you made a

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Speaker 2: choice and that's what happened. So don't blame me.

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Speaker 1: And so you didn't have to take me. You made

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Speaker 1: that choice. None of this is my fault. And they

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Speaker 1: move on in silence. It's a five hour walk to

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Speaker 1: wherever they're headed. Ellie asks you all if he has

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Speaker 1: gone this way a lot? Just trying to make conversation.

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Speaker 1: She asks about the scar in his head, which he

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Speaker 1: says he got in a shootout. The guy missed and

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Speaker 1: he missed as well. And she's like, well is that

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Speaker 1: you know? Is that because you suck at shooting or.

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Speaker 2: She's like, oh, but you're allowed to have a gun.

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Speaker 1: The gun, She's like, where is can I? I notice

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Speaker 1: you have two guns, so what's up?

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Speaker 2: How's a gun?

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Speaker 1: There's two of us. I have no gun. You have

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Speaker 1: two guns? Can we share? No? That's a hard note

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Speaker 1: on absolutely on firearm socialism. They arrive at a Comby's,

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Speaker 1: a Cumberland farms staple of New England life.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say that was that was the you've

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Speaker 2: been the Trumpies. Yeah, like this is like they were like,

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Speaker 2: this is real.

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Speaker 1: Joel is like, I got a cachet of stuff hidden

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Speaker 1: here where you need it. And here we get a

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Speaker 1: moment ripped from the game. Ellie sees a Mortal Kombat game. Now,

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Speaker 1: a Mortal Kombat game in the in the show not

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Speaker 1: what was it?

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Speaker 3: Ninja something, Angel Eyes the Angel Knives was the main character,

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Speaker 3: and it was kind of a very brutal video game

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Speaker 3: with like a black lead who had like Wolverine type

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Speaker 3: clause and she and Ellie.

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Speaker 1: Knows everything about Mortal Kombat, which they don't give the

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Speaker 1: backstory here, but I would assume it's the same from

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Speaker 1: the game, which is she knew somebody who knew the

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Speaker 1: Federal Orphanage who knew all about it, and she just

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Speaker 1: really wishes she could play it. Meanwhile, Joel is like,

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Speaker 1: where I myself? And Ellie calls him out on it,

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Speaker 1: and he says, I'm zeroing it in on it all right.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like zeroing it on wherever I hid my stuff.

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Speaker 1: So Ellie heads off. This reminded me of twenty eight

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Speaker 1: days later in the moment where they stop at a

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Speaker 1: like a roadside gas station killian Murphy goes off on

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Speaker 1: his own just to do whatever. Ellie heads off on

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Speaker 1: her own. She finds a trap door, she goes down

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Speaker 1: it clavi a plan, great plan. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: she was planning to get up quickly if she needed to,

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Speaker 1: but that's fine. She finds a fresh box of tampons,

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Speaker 1: which is total score.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's like what the million nola's in

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Speaker 2: the zombia worth.

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Speaker 1: More than baggies probably, And then she hears the trademark

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Speaker 1: sound of an infected somewhere and she swings her flashlight

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Speaker 1: over and there is one trapped by collapse debris. And

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Speaker 1: this is a really interesting moment where Ellie takes the

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Speaker 1: opportunity provided by the safety the fact that this effect

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Speaker 1: is trapped in the privacy, to like test whether she

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Speaker 1: can kill a thing. Basically, you know, can I kill

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Speaker 1: this thing?

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Speaker 2: And is it really does this kind of like really

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Speaker 2: clinical moment where she cuts open its head to see

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Speaker 2: what it's underneath, and because also I think as well,

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Speaker 2: that's that moment of self discovery, of wondering what would

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Speaker 2: happen to her or is that already inside her?

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Speaker 1: Like this?

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Speaker 2: But it also has this scariness to it, of that

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Speaker 2: disconnect from humanity of a kid who's grown up around this,

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Speaker 2: who can just cut open a living being's face and

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Speaker 2: then you kind of wait, and there's this moment of

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Speaker 2: silence that almost goes too long before she actually kills it,

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Speaker 2: and there's kind of this connection. Oh, it's really creepy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really resonated with me in that. You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure as a kid people have had the experience

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Speaker 1: of like the kids in the friend group who are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let's burn caterpillars with a magnifying glass or let's kill this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the creepy kids, the creepy kids, right, And it felt like,

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Speaker 1: here is this moment Joel's not around, nobody's around where

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Speaker 1: she can kind of let the creepy kid out, especially.

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Speaker 2: Because she's around these adults who kill people all the time,

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Speaker 2: and there's this boundary that she's testing here.

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Speaker 1: But obviously I do it?

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Speaker 2: Can I do it? And the infect it is trapped

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Speaker 2: like an animal, kind of trapped under glows. It's a

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Speaker 2: really intense moment. It really jury very absolutely delivers on it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's that moment where she points the blade

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Speaker 1: of the knife at it to see like, is it

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Speaker 1: gonna be afraid? Is there any recognition that it's in

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Speaker 1: danger right now? And then you sensed an almost relief

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Speaker 1: that there wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, back upstairs, Joel

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Speaker 1: found his stuff and now he's hiding his assault rifle

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Speaker 1: because there's no AMMO and so it's basically useless. So

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Speaker 1: he's like, wait, hold on a second, you're just like

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Speaker 1: throwing it in a hole. Can I have it? Joel

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Speaker 1: says no. They walk on. They pass an airplane crash.

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Speaker 1: Joel insists, if flying wasn't actually that cool, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: that great, it was pretty You had to take off

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Speaker 1: your shoes, which I can't even explain to you what

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Speaker 1: that was about. That's the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: It's a whole different time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you had to sit in the middle

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Speaker 1: seat and pay twelve dollars or whatever it is for

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Speaker 1: a for a sandwich, which do you even understand what

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Speaker 1: money was?

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Speaker 2: Many?

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Speaker 1: Does that ring a bell at all? And Allie's like, dude,

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Speaker 1: you got to go up in the sky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, and they got to go up

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Speaker 2: in the sky too, and they crashed, So classic optimistic

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Speaker 2: Joel that.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of Station eleven when they're explaining the

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Speaker 1: Internet to the kids, like so you could just like

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Speaker 1: look up anything.

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Speaker 2: It was just like having every book in the world

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Speaker 2: just in your pocket.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, yeah, it was Actually I guess now when

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Speaker 1: you say it that way, it's pretty cool. He then

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Speaker 1: they start talking about like, Okay, what was the fall like,

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Speaker 1: and a conversation actually that we've been having in our

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Speaker 1: discord and have and fans have been having, which is,

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Speaker 1: how did this thing start? Like if the in fact

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Speaker 1: you have to bite people, it must have there. How

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Speaker 1: did who's a chicken in the egg?

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Speaker 2: Question?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: But what Joel kind of reveals, Hey, and this is

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Speaker 2: different from the game is this was like a day

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Speaker 2: in the game, it's over months. But here he's like,

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Speaker 2: it was dun, dundun. It was in the theory is

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Speaker 2: which we've talked about. I don't want to say we.

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Speaker 1: Were right.

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Speaker 4: Our discord discord was definitely right, but basically like it

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Speaker 4: was in it had been in the food, it had

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Speaker 4: been in the wheat, and people started to get sick

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Speaker 4: and it just happened really quickly.

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Speaker 2: So something I think is really interesting about this reveal

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Speaker 2: is that means that where we saw the doctor in

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Speaker 2: Jakarta last episode, that was probably zero. That was probably

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Speaker 2: ground zero, and that was probably the beginning. And by

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Speaker 2: the time that Sarah and Joel and Tommy heard about it,

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Speaker 2: that was when it was starting to spread.

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Speaker 1: So he says, yeah, like it probably was a very

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Speaker 1: very basic food stuff got into the food supply, hit

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Speaker 1: supermarket shelves on a Thursday, this is two thousand and three.

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Speaker 1: People bought it, used it, made raisin cookies out of it,

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Speaker 1: biscuits biscuits, and infected themselves. And then the next day,

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Speaker 1: late Friday, September twenty six, two thousand and three, the

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Speaker 1: shit absolutely hit the fan and by Monday it was

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Speaker 1: all gone. They later cut across They come to a

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Speaker 1: stretch of the path where Joel's like, let's cut across

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Speaker 1: the woods. So there's something up there that I don't

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Speaker 1: want you to see. And all He's like, what, like

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Speaker 1: you murder a guy? Like is it gonna be? Is

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Speaker 1: it something that can hurt me? He's like no, He's like,

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Speaker 1: then I want to see it. So they go and

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Speaker 1: it is a mass grave. And what we learn is

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Speaker 1: that in the chaos and confusion of Outbreak day post

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Speaker 1: outbreak Day, and this is now a week after outbreak Day.

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Speaker 1: Joel says, this happened. The military went small towns across

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Speaker 1: the country, evacuating people, telling them you're going to ACZ

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Speaker 1: and that was true. But if there was no room

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Speaker 1: at the QZ, you were going to a mask grave

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Speaker 1: where you're going to get gunned down. And that was it.

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Speaker 1: And Allie says, why why not just like leave them?

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Speaker 1: And Joel says, because it's people. In fact, it exactly

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Speaker 1: x ray Vision will be back, and we're back. We

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Speaker 1: flash back to nine thirty, two thousand and three. Federal

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Speaker 1: forces are evacuating a town, which, man, they got that

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Speaker 1: together pretty quickly.

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Speaker 2: Oh they were ready.

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Speaker 1: They were ready.

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Speaker 2: The conspiracy theorists probably have a lot of thoughts about

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Speaker 2: how quickly they were able to militarize and evacuate these

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of questions, right just to pause here, It's like number one,

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Speaker 1: do the president un any bread? Like on Thursday night?

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Speaker 1: You know, like how in the the Cavilian leadership, like

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Speaker 1: who what's left do you? How do you get let's

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Speaker 1: say this did happen and you're telling up some kind

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Speaker 1: of military force Okay, you got to round people up

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Speaker 1: and taking the qus and those that don't make it,

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Speaker 1: you just kind of I'm asking you to be a

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Speaker 1: mass murderer. You have to imagine that, like a large

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Speaker 1: number of people wouldn't do this right, I would.

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Speaker 2: Say that my cynical twenty twenty three opinion, it would

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Speaker 2: depend where you were getting them from. There are certain

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Speaker 2: places in the way that they militarized the country where

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Speaker 2: there would probably be people who would be more eager.

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Speaker 2: And also it's a life or death situation, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's could you do that? I mean also, is it

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Speaker 2: a real martial law? Is the president still there ordering

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Speaker 2: that or are these just segments of the army that

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Speaker 2: are left? Is there? I would love to know that.

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Speaker 2: This is the I find this all the storytelling choices

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Speaker 2: in this show so brave. I'm so happy. From the beginning,

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Speaker 2: I said I want season one to be the first game,

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Speaker 2: and that's what they're doing. But I could also watch

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Speaker 2: a whole series just about the establishment of FEDERA. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and how who is in charge, who's making those decisions,

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Speaker 2: who's setting up the qzs, How would they know? How

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Speaker 2: quickly could they do that? What was a QZ and

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Speaker 2: how did they get to be the places that they were,

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Speaker 2: Like was it just a space in town? And how

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Speaker 2: did you keep the infected out? And before you had

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Speaker 2: the tests, how did you know who was infected? There's

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Speaker 2: just so many interesting questions and that kind of brutality

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Speaker 2: of these like mass graves is like, is just so horrific.

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Speaker 2: But it seems, as Joe said that that was basically

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Speaker 2: as normal as anything else at the time, Like it

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Speaker 2: just began and people accepted it.

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush about to eat a piece of toast

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Speaker 1: and a secret service guy and Andy Carr come up

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Speaker 1: and solid fucking toast out of his hand. So we

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Speaker 1: flashed back to September thirty, two thousand and three towns

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Speaker 1: being evacuated. We see on the evacuation truck the woman

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Speaker 1: and her child that eventually are going to be skeletons

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Speaker 1: in this mass grave and watching all of this from

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Speaker 1: his underground bunker which has is fully self sufficient and

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Speaker 1: it has like full CCTV TV and a secret entrance.

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Speaker 1: Below the basement is a bill and he's been waiting

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Speaker 1: for this. He's been waiting for years. He thought this

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Speaker 1: would happen someday and Unfortunately he was right. He whispers,

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Speaker 1: not today, you knew world order, Jack boot Fox.

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Speaker 2: And they come knocking on his door. They kick down

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Speaker 2: his door, presumably, and they don't find it. He's deep

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Speaker 2: in the basement. He's safe.

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Speaker 1: So the coast is clear and Bill emerges and it's

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Speaker 1: party time. It's time to set up shop. He gets

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Speaker 1: his neighbor's boat. He rips everything out of the boat

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Speaker 1: so he can use it as like a trailer. He's

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Speaker 1: gathering supplies from home depot. He's getting all the best wines.

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Speaker 1: He's taking everything from the grocery store that he needs.

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Speaker 1: He goes to the nearby power plant and make sure

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Speaker 1: the gas is on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just loving life. He's setting up this whole

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Speaker 2: street to become his home. It's kind of idyllic post

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Speaker 2: apocalyptic suburb.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful deal. He sets up a defensive perimeter

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Speaker 1: anchored by an electric fence. He got the electricity on

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Speaker 1: with the generator. He's got lots of traps, man traps,

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Speaker 1: fire traps.

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Speaker 2: He's got traps the shooting zombies if they come close.

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Speaker 1: He's saws, circular saw traps. This guy is he loves

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Speaker 1: making the traps. He's a saw I.

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Speaker 2: Was gonna say he's he's got big jigsaw energy. He

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Speaker 2: would do well as a serial killer if the apocalypse

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Speaker 2: had not happened.

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Speaker 1: And he's also a gourmand. He plants all. He enjoys

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Speaker 1: the finding things in lot chickens. He's got some pork shoulder,

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Speaker 1: pork butt, ready to wine, sautee it up in a

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Speaker 1: in a beautiful wine sauce. He's he's living very fat.

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Speaker 1: And he goes on like this for four years, scouring

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Speaker 1: the nearby area for supplies when he means and returning

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Speaker 1: to his little fortress town. And then one day he's

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Speaker 1: alerted by his security system that an effected he thinks

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Speaker 1: has fallen into one of his his pit traps around

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Speaker 1: the perimeter. He goes over to see what's what's occurred,

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Speaker 1: and it's a guy who is named Frank. And Frank

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Speaker 1: has just escaped a couple days ago, escaped from the

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Speaker 1: Baltimore QZ, which apparently has been overrun, and he's trying

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Speaker 1: to make his way to Boston. And he was in

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Speaker 1: a party of ten and now it's a party of one,

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Speaker 1: just Frank and Bill. Very very wary, gun always at

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Speaker 1: the ready, let's Frank out of the pit. And then Frank,

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Speaker 1: who we are going to learn is just a very

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Speaker 1: very charming person who is eager to make connections with

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Speaker 1: other people and eager to show his worth as a

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Speaker 1: person who makes connections, makes a connection with Bill and says, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of starving and if I could just like

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Speaker 1: have a meal, that would be great, and Bill really

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Speaker 1: against his better judgment, Yeah, I just want to say.

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Speaker 2: Bill says, like, my one of my favorite lines here,

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Speaker 2: which is like, I really feel like they were They

340
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Speaker 2: were just like, this is nickoll Fermen playing Bill, and

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Speaker 2: I really feel like they with him. They were like,

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Speaker 2: you can just play it like if Ron Swanson was

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Speaker 2: in a drama. Because Frank's like, oh, could I just

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Speaker 2: have one meal? I have any in for two days?

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Speaker 2: And then he's like, I realized that doesn't sound very long.

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Speaker 2: And Bill's like, you can't just come hen and get

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Speaker 2: a free meal. This isn't an Abby's. If you go

348
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Speaker 2: people are gonna be coming in a restaurant. And then

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Speaker 2: and and Frank's like Abby's a restaurant there there was

350
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Speaker 2: no free meals, And they kind of have this banter

351
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Speaker 2: and eventually like Bill decides he's gonna let Frank in.

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Speaker 1: He also says Bill that, well, listen, if I let

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Speaker 1: you in, everyone come in and tell every hobo in

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Speaker 1: the area.

355
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Speaker 2: Frank's like, I won't tell any hobo which, oh vagabonds will.

356
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Speaker 1: Drift this which this should be our first hint that

357
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 1: Bill and Joel are on parallel tracks. Remember Joel on

358
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Speaker 1: the outbreak day passing a family on the road. No,

359
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 1: keep fucking going, We're not stopping. Bill, had Frank not

360
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Speaker 1: come into his life, is that guy who would not

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Speaker 1: have stopped for anyone. So Bill lets Frank in. He

362
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Speaker 1: lets him wash up hot water. It's fantastic, He gets

363
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 1: an extra so excited, just go to have a shower,

364
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: easy in the shower, and then they have a meal

365
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 1: that is so much better than anyone could have expected. Apocalypse.

366
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Speaker 2: Frank has definitely never eaten a meal that good in

367
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 2: like seven years. Even before the apocalypse, he was probably

368
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 2: not eating that good. Like Bill makes a Michelin start,

369
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,239
Speaker 2: it's a really good meal, and he brings out the

370
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 2: best wine, and you start to suddenly realize that Frank

371
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 2: is not the only person who's seeking connection. Like Bill

372
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 2: might be scared of making a connection of trusting someone else,

373
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Speaker 2: but having this person in his house. He's taking it seriously.

374
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Speaker 2: He wants to be a good host, and it's it's

375
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Speaker 2: really sweet, and nick Offman just gives the most unbelievable

376
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 2: performance that is so endearing and awkward, and as he

377
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 2: kind of opens up to this idea that he's not alone,

378
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Speaker 2: even just for this one night, he kind of starts

379
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Speaker 2: to spread his wings. He shows off the wakers. Frank

380
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 2: is like the most enthusiastic guest, like he's so happy

381
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Speaker 2: to have the shower, to eat this delicious food, to

382
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: drink the wine, like it's yeah, it's just really two

383
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: of them are so good together and talking leg of

384
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Speaker 2: rabbit with with garden vegetables with a jou with paired

385
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Speaker 2: with a baujolet as Frank notes like, oh my god,

386
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Speaker 2: the wine and protein pairing is perfect.

387
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Speaker 1: Uh. Then Frank's like, oh, like I said, she leve,

388
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: but before I leave, I want to play your piano,

389
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Speaker 1: which I've been looking at this whole time. And he

390
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: goes over. He goes through the music books that he

391
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: has there. It's a lot of old people shit, but

392
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 1: then there is a Linda Ronstat music book uh, and

393
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: Frank sits down kind of hacks his way through a

394
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: version of Linda Rod's stat's a long long time. Bill

395
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: is like Bill, who we should note by the meal

396
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 1: and his reaction to this has very high standards for everything,

397
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: and you're ruining.

398
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 2: He's playing like the jauntiest ship. It's like dun dud.

399
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 2: This is really chunky, like b and Bill is.

400
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: Like, no, absolutely, it's a ballad, my friend. So then

401
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,479
Speaker 1: Bill plays it and let's be let's be honest. Bill's

402
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: rendition not appreciably better than Frank's.

403
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: No, but it's it's like, I'm sorry, it's more it's

404
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: more heart, it's more hot, fast, and you can tell

405
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: there's this message that Bill Frank he just wanted to

406
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: hack away a piano and sing a song there. But

407
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: Bill is like, there's a there's a there's yearning.

408
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: And Frank Frank notices the yearning and he says, who's

409
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: the girl that you were singing about? And Bill's like,

410
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: there's no girl, and Frank is like I know, and

411
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: they kiss and they become lovers that night, and years

412
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 1: pass and they become romantic partners, and then we go

413
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: three years later, Bill and Frank are now experience the

414
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: kind of normal growing pains of a long term relationship.

415
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 2: There in the hilarious context of like the post apocalyptic,

416
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 2: It's like Bob Frank wants to like do up the

417
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Speaker 2: house and do up the street and do up the boutique,

418
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 2: and he wants to kind of create a space where

419
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 2: other people can come and be safe because he sees

420
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: the wealth of what Bill has. Bill and Bill is like,

421
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: absolutely fucking.

422
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: Right, well he saves that for last first, you know, wisely,

423
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: I think Frank says, Hey, I live here too. This

424
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,360
Speaker 1: is my home too, Yeah, this is my street. All

425
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: I want to do is like, you know, do the lawns,

426
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: maybe do some topiary, say sculptures, paint the houses. Maybe

427
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: I'll referb and then, which you know, a little bit

428
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: of the rascal of Frank, which is like, and I've

429
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: saved the most troubling part for last. I want to

430
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: have friends over and we can't just.

431
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 2: Been We'll stop.

432
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Speaker 1: I'll stop you there we do, because I've already been

433
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 1: talking to him. They're coming what And so then we

434
00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: flash to Joel and Tests having a wonderful lunch with

435
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: Bill and Frank outside Bill unable to let go of

436
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: his pistol throughout the meal, because I love when Frank

437
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: is like, could you not? Could you just like at

438
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: least not cock it.

439
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: Also as well, surprise extra tests who thought we were

440
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 2: going to get it. I'm hoping this means that this

441
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: is a trend throughout that we might get flashbacks and

442
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: Tests and Frank have this super sweet connection of just

443
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: two people who are longing for something better. Bill and

444
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 2: Joel they know they see each other, they see the

445
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: connection that they have because Joel says to Bill, he

446
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 2: says to him, I'm the same as you. Yes, I get.

447
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: It, I get it. I get it. And Bill is

448
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: angry about this, this the fact that there are strangers

449
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: in the house. Frank goes with test, oh, I want

450
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: to show you the inside, and Bill is like, the

451
00:23:53,200 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: don't go inside you And Joel takes that opportunity, the privacy,

452
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 1: that private moment with a gun on him to say, hey, listen,

453
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: this is a relationship that can actually work. First of all,

454
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: I understand you're wary of us. That's fine, but we

455
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: have we have things that you will need. We have

456
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: machine parts, we have medicine that your fence is going

457
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: to fail in a year, I can get you galvanized

458
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: wire that will last the rest of your life, like

459
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 1: just any your lives.

460
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 2: Because he realizes that that's really what Bill's doing. He

461
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: sees that immediately that Bill the paston he's really keeping safe,

462
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: is Frank?

463
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's you're so right to note that, like

464
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: Frank and tests immediately get on because what if Frank

465
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: has given something to test? Maybe it's the pistol at

466
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: that time, who knows? Tess like, are you sure like

467
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, this is this is You're gonna

468
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: come back and relationship. Yeah, we're gonna.

469
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: Trade it's a gun.

470
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: Yes.

471
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: We then find out what he traded it for.

472
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: This is a relationship. And by the way, I have

473
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: an idea for a code, so when we get on

474
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: the radio, no one will know what we're talking about,

475
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: and we'll use and this is the genesis.

476
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: Of the pop must He's code. Yeah.

477
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: As they leave, Joel warns Bill, hey, listen, the you've

478
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: got a great set up here. The infactor are not

479
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: going to be a problem. But raiders at some point

480
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: are gonna get wind of what you have. They're gonna come.

481
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: They're gonna come at night. They're smarter than the infected.

482
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: They're gonna come armed, and they're gonna come here, meaning harm,

483
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: and Bill is like, don't worry about it. We go

484
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: ten years into the future now twenty thirteen, ten years

485
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: of Bill's town to twenty thirteen. The town's defensive perimeter

486
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: now includes stacks of vehicles.

487
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: Were they doing the holes in the vehicles?

488
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: So we understand that there's been battles fought here. Frank,

489
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: they've gotten to the point in their long term relationship

490
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: now where you start thinking about how do I keep

491
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: this person around as long as possible. Frank has has

492
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: put into place a kind of health regimen he's getting

493
00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: Bill jogging. Bill is very bad at jogging. Wants to

494
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: keep Bill as hail and hearty as he can for

495
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future. And then he's like, I have a

496
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: surprise for you, and it's a garden of strawberries. He

497
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: got a packet of seeds for another gun.

498
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: So we know he's set up some kind of gun

499
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: running with tests. And at first Bill's like you see

500
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: the old Bill where he's like, which gun and Frank's

501
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: just like one. He's like, it's a little one. Don't

502
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: worry about it. And then there's this whole it's hard

503
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: to just watch the episode if you haven't watched it.

504
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: I know, like a lot of our listeners listen to

505
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: us first, especially with the Last of Us, because it's scary.

506
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: Don't do that.

507
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: But this is an episode that is not This is

508
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: not a scary episode. It's scary in an existential heartbreaking way,

509
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: but it's not jump scar scary. And there's so many

510
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: brilliant moments. But this moment where Nick Hofman and Murray

511
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: Bartle like eat these strawberries together and Bill is so

512
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: happy to eat the strawberry is just so unbelievably full

513
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: of joy. This was the first moment when I tear

514
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: it up, and then I didn't stop crying for like

515
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: the rest of that episode.

516
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: The first moment that I teared up is right here

517
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: where so they've been running clearly, like you know, Frank

518
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: wants to keep Bill around, there's no healthcare out here,

519
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: and Bill, understanding what Frank is doing, says I'm sorry

520
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 1: for what getting older faster than you. And then this

521
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: wonderful moment where Frank puts Bill at ease, just saying

522
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: I like you older, Yeah, like you know that the

523
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: older means we're still We're still here. And then Bill

524
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: makes it a really vulnerable admission, and it's a thing

525
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: again if you think about Bills as I think we do,

526
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: as as a version of Joel, the kind of guy

527
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: that Joel is, but who's let love into his life.

528
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: He then makes this admission that I don't think Joel

529
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: could ever make, which is, I was never afraid before

530
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: you showed up, Like he gave me a thing to

531
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: be afraid of losing. And it's just really really vulnerable,

532
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: touching moment. Sometime later, weeks, months, who knows, maybe years,

533
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: raiders come against the town. It's definitely not the first time,

534
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: as he saw by the by the cars stacked up.

535
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 2: Around, and we see by how specific Bill's traps are.

536
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: He has flamethrowers that are sitting people on fire. He

537
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: knows why they're gonna call me, he knows why the

538
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 2: weaknesses are. But Frank, I feel like I feel like

539
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: I love Frank, but I feel like Frank has not

540
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: learned the lessons that Bill would want him to live.

541
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: I think he's ready. I mean like he looked like

542
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: he could, He looked like he knew his way around

543
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: a pistol. Bill's doing finite but in terms of.

544
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: Like, don't leave the door open, don't be like there

545
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: was many times when I was yelling at him. But

546
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: they they you know what they come out of it.

547
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: Well, I will say, I think that the fact that

548
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: Bill is already up shooting at these guys tells you

549
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: a lot about their relationships.

550
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: Exactly, which is like, Frank stays in the house.

551
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: You stay in the house, like I will deal with this,

552
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: you stay safe. Frank goes out to Bill, who, by

553
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: the way, is like standing in the middle of the

554
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: street shooting and guy's go behind something.

555
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: Now Bill is like too, he's too rough and ready.

556
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: He doesn't care.

557
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: He's just behind anything, literally anything.

558
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: It would have been good for Bill if he listened

559
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: to that advice, because then he has.

560
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: So Frank helps him into the house. And here again

561
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: is this wonderful, touching moment where I love these moments

562
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: where you see different where you see either Bill or

563
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: Frank take the lead in the relationship and the other

564
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: person let them. So here's Bill is wounded, lays Frank

565
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: lays him on the table. He's getting some wine on

566
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: his hands so he can he can touch the wound

567
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: and get it ready. All the while Bill is thinking

568
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: he's done, and he's telling Frank, listen, I have a

569
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: list ready for you, and Frank is like, let's keep

570
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: Bill talking. Yeah, tell me about I've made copies of

571
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: the keys. You need to reach out to Joel because

572
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: you can't be here alone. Joel will look off to

573
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: Joe and Frank says something really touching, I'm not alone.

574
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: You're here. Where am I going? And then years pass again.

575
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: And they do a really good bait and switch chair right, Well,

576
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: you see these two bited old guys and one of

577
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: them is in the wheelchair, and you assume it's Bill

578
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: because of the shoot thing, but we see that it's

579
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: actually Frank.

580
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: And they've got to be I mean, Bill's got to

581
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: be late sixties at this point, right, and time has

582
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: taken a brutal toll. Frank is sick, probably cancer. He's

583
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: in a wheelchairs. As you noted, they're spending as much

584
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: time as they can, drinking up the days in this

585
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: home that they built. But then you know, they wake

586
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: up one morning after going to bed together, Frank laying

587
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: in bed, clearly thinking about how he's going to tell

588
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: Bill what he wants to do in the morning. And

589
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: then the morning comes and he says, listen, this is

590
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: the last day. This is it.

591
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he actually even and this is like a

592
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: really powerful representation I think of just like, yeah, it's

593
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: just something you don't get to see. He basically pulls

594
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: himself out of bed and into his wheelchair and he

595
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 2: does it over the night. He wants to do that

596
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: one saying himself.

597
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: He's like, He's like, yeah, don't do that, Like I

598
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: told you what happens if you fall asleep. He's so

599
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: worried about him and.

600
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, Frank's like no, He's like, today

601
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: is the last day.

602
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: And he says, here's what we're gonna do. We're going

603
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: to have a great day. I'm gonna take you to the boutique.

604
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: You're gonna wear what I say.

605
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: You're gonna wear what I pick right.

606
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna make a great dinner. We're gonna bring

607
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: the wine out. We're gonna crush some pills on the wine.

608
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna drink it. Then I'm gonna fall asleep in

609
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: your arms. Oh yeah.

610
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: And the outfits he's picking is so they can get married.

611
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: They're gonna they're gonna get married. They're gonna have this

612
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: ceremony the two of them. Then they're gonna eat dinner,

613
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: they're gonna drink a delicious wine. Then they're gonna put

614
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: some pills in a slightly cheaper bottle of wine so

615
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: they don't ruin it. And and Frank's gonna kill himself

616
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: and he wants Bill to continue on because he loves Bill,

617
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: and uh, and we get to see this day that

618
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: they shared together, and it is.

619
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: Just well Bill is first. Bill is like, absolutely, I

620
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: can't do it. I can't absolutely can't do it. I'm

621
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: not strong enough to do that. He breaks down, But

622
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: eventually because of the love and respect and the relationship

623
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: they've forged. Which thinking back to that first argument where

624
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: Frank wants to do the lawns and paint and stuff

625
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: and invite people over and Bill's like, no, no, no,

626
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: the basis of their relationship has been Frank pushing Bill

627
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: out of his comfort zone and Bill not wanting to

628
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: go there, but ultimately going there because of his respect

629
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: for Frank. And there's a great and it's working out.

630
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a great line here where Frank says

631
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: to him, like do you love me and he's like yeah,

632
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: and he says, well, then love me the way I want,

633
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: which is to have this day and then to I mean,

634
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: being sick is is so much pain just in an

635
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: allegedly functioning society, let alone he's dealing with this in

636
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: a situation where he says to Frank, you know, he

637
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: says to Bill, there was no for this before it

638
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: has happened, So what are we going to do? You know,

639
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: and then they get to have this like and you

640
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: know what, I just I was so proud of Bill

641
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: in this moment, which is very funny to say for

642
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 2: a character that you've known for like forty five minutes,

643
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: because he just embraces it. But he listens to what

644
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: Frank wants and he actually gives him that day. They

645
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: dress up, they dress real fancy, they spend time together,

646
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: they give each other rings, and then you know, Bill

647
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: cooks him the same meal that he had the first

648
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: day that he ever came to his house, and he

649
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: replicates it and he cooks that meal and it is

650
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: just such a beautiful moment. I mean, I was just

651
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: crying like NonStop. It was post strawberries. It was just

652
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: balling ball and Ballin Like these performances, there's so much

653
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: love and nuance and tenderness and complexity, and it is

654
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: just such an astounding piece of television.

655
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: But then the wine comes out, and Frank drinks his wine,

656
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: watches Frank drink his wine and make sure he's drinking it.

657
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: Then Bill drinks his wine, and then Frank realizes, oh,

658
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: there was already there was. You took some too, and

659
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Bills like, yeah, there's enough in there to kill a horse. Frank.

660
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: Now it's Frank's turn to get pushed out of his

661
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: comfort zone. He says, you know, I don't support this.

662
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: This is not what I wanted, but you know, from

663
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: an objective point of view, it's and they go up

664
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 1: to bed to go to sleep together in each other's arms.

665
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: Sometime later, probably days, a few days later, a week

666
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: I think takes.

667
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: It's unclear because and it's unclear for a purpose. Bill

668
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 2: and Frank open and yeah, so in a recent enough

669
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: time that no one else has found.

670
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: The house, right from late summer to fall, Joel and

671
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: Ellie arrive in the town and they find the house quiet.

672
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: Joel is immediately like what the fuck. He knows there's

673
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: a problem.

674
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: The way he opens the door, knowing that Bill is

675
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: a trap guy is very wary. He looks all around,

676
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: goes to their bedroom, tells Ellie, U state right here.

677
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go look around. Ellie finds the letter that

678
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: Bill left and and she begins to read it. Meanwhile,

679
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: Joel is looking around. He sees that Bill's car is

680
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: there's stuff, there's kind there's like the ingredients for a

681
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: car battery that are like in place, just need to

682
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: be assembled and then charged. So he's got everything he

683
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: needs to continue his mission. And then he returns to

684
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: the house and Ellie's reading the letter, and Ellie reads

685
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: it to him, and it's basically about you know how Bill,

686
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: here's some of it. So I used to hate the world.

687
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: I was happy when everyone died, but I was wrong

688
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: because there was one person worth saving. And that's what

689
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: I did. I saved him and I protected him. That's

690
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: why men like you and me are here. We have

691
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: a job to do, and God help any motherfuckers who

692
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: stand in our way. I leave you all my weapons

693
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: and equipment, use them to keep. And then she stops

694
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: because it's tests written there. Joel then takes the letter.

695
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: He reads the rest of it, and he makes a

696
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: decision there that okay, we're going to continue with this mission.

697
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: He asks Ellie to see her arm. It is completely healed,

698
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 1: and he says, okay, here's what was up before we met.

699
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: I have a brother. He was in the Fireflies. He's

700
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: in Wyoming. He's in some kind of trouble. We're going there.

701
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: Maybe he knows where your firefly lab is. And then

702
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: Allie's like, great, hey, and about tests, Like now this

703
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: the letter is brought back, this kind of wound of tests,

704
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: and she wants to apologize in this moment, but he stops.

705
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: He He's like, don't ever talk about tests. Never mentioned

706
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: her name, and in fact, we're never going to talk

707
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: about our own history.

708
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: He's like, these are the rules if you want to

709
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: care with me, no tests. And we were wondering last

710
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: week if that was something we've been going to see,

711
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: because that is a rule that Joel lays out in

712
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: quite a harsh way in the in the game. In

713
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: the game that kind of almost like sets him in

714
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 2: out back, kind of away from the journey that they've

715
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: been on together. But it quickly, you know, the nature

716
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: of their relationship means that they quickly find new paths

717
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: to kind of reconnect. But yeah, I was very interested

718
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: to see he said, no tests, no talking about our pasts,

719
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: Like we're basically just travelers on this road together. But

720
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: it is really interesting because it is this letter from

721
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: Bill that makes him decide to save Ellie. That's basically like,

722
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: to take Ellie where she's going. This is the letter.

723
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: We are here for one reason, to protect people. Guess what.

724
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: That didn't happen with Tess. In Joe's mind, he's like,

725
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: here's this child, look at her arm. Okay, she's healed.

726
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: This is real, And in that moment, he takes on

727
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: that full This is not Tess's mission that he's doing

728
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: because he misses her. This is him becoming the protector,

729
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: the person who is going to get her to wear

730
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: she needs to go. It's like a huge moment, and

731
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 2: I think they did a really brilliant job of bringing

732
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: that to life in a slightly different way than the game.

733
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: The rest of his ground rules are, you don't talk

734
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: about your immunity because people will just kill you. People

735
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: just kill you. They'll see the bite, they'll kill you.

736
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: And then third of all, you do whatever I say.

737
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: Whatever I say goes and Ellie agrees. In Bill's bunker,

738
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: Joel takes Ellie down there and we discover that it

739
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: was the nineteen eighties. Music was from Bill and Frank. Ellie,

740
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: seeing a wall of guns, asks for a gun again. Yeah,

741
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: there's like fifty there. Once again.

742
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: No.

743
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: They then gather up what they need pack for the trip.

744
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: Ellie's back in the house for a little while. She

745
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: finds it a gun like either a nine millimeter or

746
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: a twenty two, hidden in a desk, and she keeps

747
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: it and they get in the truck, which Ellie has

748
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: never been in a vehicle before. She doesn't know how

749
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: to put on.

750
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: She's like, this is like a spaceship. It's so cute

751
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: because when you actually think about it, you're like, oh shit, yeah,

752
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: cause it pretty crazy. It's like the Internet conversation. This

753
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: whole episode has big Station eleven energy. Actually, it's all

754
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: about like finding what keeps you going against like the

755
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 2: most insurmountable odds.

756
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: As they drive away, she puts a cassette tape in.

757
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: It's Linda Ronstat's a long long time. Joel is about

758
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: to be like, no, don't put any music, and I

759
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: don't want to any music. One my oh wait, wait,

760
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 1: hold on, this is good. This is good.

761
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 2: I want to hear.

762
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: Oh, this is good. This is Linda ronstat you this

763
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: is this is a good one. And they drive off

764
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: through the gates of town headed west, and then we

765
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: get the last shot of the episode is like this

766
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: a pullback through the open window from inside Bill and

767
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,479
Speaker 1: Frank's bedroom window. They're in there somewhere, but we don't

768
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: ever see them dead. You only see the outside through

769
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: the open window. And it's very, very consciously the exact

770
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: same of the menu of the of The Last of

771
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: Us menuscree.

772
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: They have to press any button every time, and there

773
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 2: it is.

774
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: That's just simply one of the best hours of television

775
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: that we've seen this year. X Ra even we'll be back,

776
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 1: and we're back first, and we're going to get into

777
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: a spoiler conversation that we're going to call out yes,

778
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: but first I think what is really cool about this

779
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: episode is the way that Bill and Frank's relationship is

780
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: like a very pointed critique of Joel and the way

781
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: he goes about Think about the way he just spoke

782
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: to Ellie at the end. There you do what I say?

783
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also like there is this they sell it

784
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 2: so well in the show because there's this This is

785
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 2: not Joel's intention. Joel is not a predator, but there

786
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: is this horrible power dynamic there where he's like this

787
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 2: adult man who's like, you will do whatever I say.

788
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: What I say goes, and you will have to do

789
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: it if you're coming with me. There's just so much

790
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: anger and fear that fuels everything that Joel does. Whereas

791
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 2: Bill opened himself up to actually becoming somebody's partner and

792
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: trusting them and believing in their agents and believing in

793
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 2: their goodness and believing that they could bring something to

794
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 2: their life, which is something that Joel has not managed

795
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: to do since Sarah.

796
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 1: Even with tests, yeah, I mean, even with the letter,

797
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: which I think you're right to point out, is like

798
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: a mission statement for Joe if you think about it.

799
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: Joel has never done anything in this show as of

800
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: yet that he's wanted to do. He didn't want to

801
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: go and nothing's.

802
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: Been of even his own agency.

803
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: Right, He's getting dragged forward into one of the most

804
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: formative relationships of his life. This this relationship he's going

805
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: to have with Ellie, and every step of the way

806
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: he didn't want to do it. He didn't want to go.

807
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: He didn't want to go with Tests. He didn't want

808
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 1: to bring her when he met Ellie when TS died,

809
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: he wanted. He didn't want to.

810
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: He didn't believe.

811
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: Probably was thinking, I'm going to leave you with Bill

812
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: and Frank.

813
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can look after you. You're safe here.

814
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to drop you there.

815
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: He says, there's somebody here who owes me a favor. Yeah,

816
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 2: And wouldn't that favor be to leave? Oh, you know

817
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: what to do. You've got a call, you can take a.

818
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: And I think it's that's the part that really hit

819
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: me extremely hard, was that you know, Bill could just

820
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: never if it wasn't for Frank, he never would have

821
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: let anybody in his fortress town. And Joel is exactly

822
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: like that. He's so beholden to his traumas and the

823
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: fact that he quote unquote failed on the night the

824
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: outbreak happened, that he like can't enjoy anything. I think

825
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: about that that really telling moment where Tess says, Oh,

826
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: can't you just like take the good news for you,

827
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: just like accept that something good happened. Like Bill got

828
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: to a place where he could accept something good happened

829
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: where like he could accept that, Like Frank came into

830
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: my life and that was really good, and now I

831
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: am satisfied and I'm ready to go. Joel is like

832
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: holding on to this terrible sadness and can't see can't

833
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: see anything else for it. And it was so smart

834
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: to use the Bill and Frank relationship. Is this spotlight

835
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: on Joel as this wounded, traumatized person who can't listen

836
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: to any of the people who he cares about. He

837
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: doesn't he never listened to Tess, who dragged him on

838
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: this mission. He's certainly not listening to Ellie. Like here's

839
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: the thing, Okay, you don't want to give Ellie a gun.

840
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: I get it. You know the open country more than

841
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 1: she does. I get it. But why are we leaving

842
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: this town right now?

843
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: Like literally, why don't you handy some food?

844
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: Stay here for a week. Teach her how to shoot safely,

845
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: how to drive a car. Yeah, teach her how to

846
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: drive a car, teach her how to do anything useful.

847
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: But there's something in Joel that, because of how he

848
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: failed Sarah wants to keep the people around him not infantilized.

849
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: But I think you were right to point out. He

850
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: wants to keep Ellie powerless and a weird way, not

851
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: in any kind of like creepy way, no, but in

852
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: a way of like I know best, I know what

853
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm doing. You don't. I'm gonna take care of you.

854
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Especially it's like we know what Bill is like,

855
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: there's probably meals packed in there. There's probably food for months.

856
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: There's all kinds of stuff in that freezer.

857
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: There's everything you could need.

858
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: You could teach out to make traps. You could give

859
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: her a different kind of weapon.

860
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: You could full of music from every decade of popular

861
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: music that existed, like it.

862
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: Would I think now it's not running water.

863
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: He's almost oh my god, electricity, why are we leaving

864
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: this very what? Like you want to beat the snows? Like,

865
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: what are we doing? You have a corrido.

866
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: He's almost like out, He's almost like a shark. It's

867
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: like he can't stop moving. He has to just keep

868
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: going forward because if he stops, then he's gonna have

869
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: to deal with what happened to Test. I mean, the

870
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: reason Joel doesn't want to stay in the house is

871
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: because he spent time with Test there. That why he

872
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: doesn't want to remember that he ate the food there,

873
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: that they had a nice time, that they had friends,

874
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: friends that he never had, but he knows really they

875
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 2: were friends. You get this moment where he goes outside

876
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 2: with the letter and he almost.

877
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: Is he crying.

878
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: He's kind of keen aig. He's kind of silently yelling

879
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: it's almost there, and he's out on that lawn where

880
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: they spent this time together. But it is this is

881
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: one of Joel's silliest It is this silliest moment because

882
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: these two could have hunkered down here, even just for

883
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: one night.

884
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: They can just want to Joel, enjoy this, my guy

885
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: the ground, Joel.

886
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: What is the number one thing that we all know?

887
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: You know this.

888
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: Everyone who's ever watched a zombie movie or any kind

889
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: of post apocalyptic story knows this. The worst thing out

890
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 2: there is humans. Right here, there is no humans. Take

891
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: your time, because wherever you're going next, it's going to

892
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: go badly for you. Now you're gonna come up against enemies.

893
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: You're gonna come up against dangerous things that are worse

894
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 2: than the infected. So just take a minute not to mention.

895
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: Do you want Ellie as this helpless package that you

896
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: have to deliver, or do you want help because you're

897
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: so right. Teach her to fucking drive drive a car,

898
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 1: to make a trap, to make a trap, teacher to

899
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: teach her to shoot a gun. Please just do it,

900
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, because you're gonna be out here facing a

901
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: lot of danger, a knife, to do any amount of things.

902
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: Have a conversation with her, ask her if she knows

903
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: how to shoot a gun. She grew up in a

904
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: zombie apocalypse. Let's just have a conversation. But Joel is

905
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: he couldn't do it. It's a compulsion that he has

906
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: to keep moving so that he doesn't have to deal

907
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: with all of his loss.

908
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: That's exactly that's exactly right. Yeah. Wow, what an episode.

909
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: What a What a punch to the chest on a

910
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: Sunday night? How do you go to sleep out?

911
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: I know? It's literally like it's really funny because the

912
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: episode opens and it continues our expectation of what the

913
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 2: show is going to be. Joel and Ellie. They're in

914
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 2: a beautiful forest. They come to a kind of post apocalyptic,

915
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: messed up place. They have a conversation. We learned some

916
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: more about what happened with the outbreak. That is kind

917
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 2: of the shape of the show. So far and that's great,

918
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: especially because Bella and Pager are so great, so it's

919
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: like it's not routine, but it feels immediately like we've

920
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: been tripped up when they throw you into this flashback

921
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: that's actually the meat of the episode. I mean, the

922
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: episode is an hour and fifteen minutes long, and I

923
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: think the opening with Ellie and Joel is really that

924
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,479
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, and then you get almost this like hour

925
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 2: with Frank and Bill, and it is just such thoughtful,

926
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: kind good storytelling. And I really love the way that

927
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: this expands on like the tiniest hints that were given

928
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: about Bill and Frank. You know, Frank is dead in

929
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: the game. Bill is alive, and we know that Frank.

930
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: Left in the game. But Frank Bill Bill, he got rid.

931
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: Of his partner because he didn't do this, that and

932
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: the other. But that the implication was there that they

933
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: were gay, but that was a gay character who had

934
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 2: been killed off screen. You didn't know what how, and

935
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: you don't really know about Bill. That's not a big

936
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: major point of his life.

937
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: This is to me.

938
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: I saw a lot of people saying this is a deviation,

939
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: but to me, this actually just felt like like the

940
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: best adaptations do when I am playing this game, now,

941
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: this just feels true to me, Like, yeah, sure I

942
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: met Bill, so in this version they didn't die together

943
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: or whatever. But that relationship, that expansion of those characters

944
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: and that experience that they had together, that feels so

945
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: true to the game. And I love this, this feeling

946
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: about one of my I'd written about this on Instagram,

947
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:32,919
Speaker 2: but how much I like the film, But I saw

948
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: something that was a really great take from one of

949
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: my favorite film directors, Timo Tanto, who's like this incredible

950
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: Indonesian horror director, and he says, like The Last of

951
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: Us was never about like vengeance. It was like about

952
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: finding love that it was.

953
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: The game was never about vengeance.

954
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: He's like, it's not like the quest is not like

955
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 2: Joel on a quest for vengeance. No, he's the Last

956
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 2: of Us. Yeah, well there's a different vengeance. Yeah, but

957
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: he's like he's like part one, it's never about like

958
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: vengeance or it's about like finding love that it's worth

959
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: being violent for. It's like that's why you're violent, is

960
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: like these things that you can take care of. And

961
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: I kind of love this to me. I was like,

962
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: it's about finding things you can love and things that

963
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: help you get through. But there's also this reality of

964
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: like Bill killed many many people for Frank, Bill would

965
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: kill raiders, Bill would kill the infected Joel not murdered

966
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: multiple people on the Quest for Test and in the

967
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: Last of Us, those two things are aligned, like it's

968
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: like what will you do to protect the people you love?

969
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 2: And that obviously, as we know and people have played

970
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: the game, no is the biggest question about. Well, that's

971
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 2: the Last of Us.

972
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: It's a perfect opportunity then to talk about the Last

973
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: of Us game in a spoiler filled way. So right

974
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: now we're gonna transition to a spoiler conversation for people

975
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: who have finished the Last of Us game.

976
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 2: Yes, so we don't care about spoilers, but we don't

977
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: care about sor this will this could potentially we haven't

978
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 2: seen ahead of show. We haven't seen ahead, but it

979
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: is most likely that this will be part of the

980
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: show and will be a huge spoilers. So stop listening

981
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: now if you don't want to spoiler.

982
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: Spoiler, spoilers, boilers, boils, spoil that. So for those of

983
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: you who have finished the Last of Us Part one

984
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: game or know about the ending, let's talk about the ending. Now,

985
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: So the ending of the game. Shocking moment you get

986
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: to the lab, right as Joel. You as Joel, bring

987
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: Ellie to the lab.

988
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: This is what you've been playing for the whole game.

989
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: This is great, right, it's going to save the world, right,

990
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: you're you. She is in the room with the doctors,

991
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: and you discover that whatever this process is that is

992
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: going to bring the immunity out of her is going

993
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: to kill her.

994
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. They I believe they have to take the fungus

995
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: out of her brain, and it would kill her.

996
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: It would kill her. And so Joel decides to kill

997
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: everybody in the lab take Ellie out, Okay. Then Ellie

998
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: wakes up and Joel lies straight to her face about

999
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: what happened.

1000
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, there was so many people that, yeah,

1001
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: you know who are immune and and they've never actually

1002
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 2: been able to find a kill it.

1003
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: So you're free to go, right, So, and Ellie kind of.

1004
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: Chooses to believe Joel in that moment. I feel like

1005
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: I feel like it's I feel like it's she does.

1006
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 1: I don't feel like she knows.

1007
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 2: I don't feel like she thinks he's telling the truth.

1008
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 2: I feel like in that moment, there's like a question there,

1009
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: but she knows that this is like you've got to survive.

1010
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: So here's what I could not stop thinking about watching

1011
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: last night's episode, and that is Bill and Frank is

1012
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: again is a direct criticism of Joel. And it's the

1013
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: way their relationship is built on this respect for each other,

1014
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: this love for each other, that is that can allow

1015
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: for the other person's voice to be her an agency,

1016
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: an agency. I I get what I get Joel being like, no,

1017
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: you're not killing this person that I love. Okay. What

1018
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: is fucked up to me is that you don't ask

1019
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: her what she wants to do. Yeah, does she want

1020
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: to save the world? You know? Like, here's what we

1021
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: know about Ellie. Is this all throughout the game and

1022
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: the show thus far, Ellie is the person who cares

1023
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: about everyone more than herself. She sees Marlene shot. She's

1024
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: known Marlene for three days, mostly as her jailor. She's like,

1025
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: oh my god, are you okay? Tess is infected. They're

1026
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: leaving her. She's going two days, she's gonna die. She's like,

1027
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: we can't leave Tess. We can't leave her.

1028
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 2: She has that thing that Sarah has at the beginning,

1029
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: we should have gone back, We should have gone back,

1030
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 2: we should have gone back. I love that read so much,

1031
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: and I think it is a direct critique. I also

1032
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: I'm just very interested to see the route that they

1033
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 2: go with that narrative. I think it's one of the

1034
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 2: best choices of any video game ever. I also think

1035
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: as well, I love stories. I talk about this book

1036
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 2: a lot when we talk about the show, but the

1037
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: Go with All the Gifts by Mike Carrey is so

1038
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: good and it ends in a very equivalent way, but

1039
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: with more of the agency put on the young girl

1040
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: in the center of the story. And I kind of

1041
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: like this idea of like who gets to choose who

1042
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 2: lives and dies in a zombie apocalypse? And is this

1043
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: just the nature of evolution? Like is should should Ellie

1044
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: die for a cure that might not work that would

1045
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: also end up killing it. It's really interesting. But the

1046
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: point is one they do a great like shadow of

1047
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: the Colossiest style trick by getting you to go on

1048
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 2: this journey and then mass murdering all the people trying

1049
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: to save the world and being like peace. That's incredible,

1050
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: but also as well, it's all about Joel's selfishness that

1051
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: isn't kind of a greater story. He is not wondering

1052
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 2: like who gets to choose who lives and dies? He's like,

1053
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: this is my child. I love her, and you are

1054
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: not going to kill her again, Fedra, fuck you.

1055
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: And it's the difference between you know, Frank saying to Bill,

1056
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: did you love me? Then love me the way I

1057
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: want you to exactly and Bill listening. Joel, if the

1058
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,919
Speaker 1: story plays out the way it does in the game,

1059
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: will never get to the place where he can listen

1060
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: to anything that Ellie has to say, because he's always

1061
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: going to feel like I know better. I am the protector.

1062
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: God help anybody who gets in the way of me

1063
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: protecting you. And that's going to take any form that

1064
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: I deem necessary. And I'm going to keep from you

1065
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: all the information that I feel like is dangerous to

1066
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: you or is going to be troubling to you, and

1067
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 1: to act on, to act on your love for someone

1068
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: is understandable to do so. When the Steaks are the

1069
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: extinction of the human race, everybody else's family that is

1070
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: out here in the world them potentially dying, you know,

1071
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: dark centuries of barbarity and and raiders and slavers and

1072
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: all the bad things that are out there, like you

1073
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: could end.

1074
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 2: It big spoiler, a lot that will come back to

1075
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 2: bite Joel in the Lost of Us pot too. He

1076
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: will learn that lesson that there are other people who

1077
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 2: have families and other people who ones.

1078
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: And to not even like run it by Ellie, like

1079
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 1: I understand that that's it's a weight and a respon

1080
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: possibility that no one should have to bear. But to

1081
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: be like, hey, so here's the situation. Would you have

1082
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: wanted to go through with this if you could have

1083
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: a shot at.

1084
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: I think also, I do think that's actually a really

1085
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: interesting point. And I do think it makes the complexity

1086
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 2: of that ending kind of even more interesting because feder

1087
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 2: also don't tell her, And I think there's something very interesting,

1088
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: And like, I love the way that they chose to

1089
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: make this choice because they put you and make you

1090
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 2: so complicit, because it would be easier to make it

1091
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 2: more sympathetic by like having Ellie wake up and be like, no,

1092
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this, or hear them and

1093
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 2: say I don't want to die, but they don't do that.

1094
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 2: Joel just tricks her, kills everyone, and breezes off and

1095
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 2: then lies to her. So it's really interesting. Yeah, I'm

1096
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 2: very I'm very interested. Now with the second season being announced,

1097
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: I'm very happy that they made this as one season.

1098
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: I think that ending has to be the end of

1099
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 2: this season for it to work. Now, how they're going

1100
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: to play season two, I think is really the big

1101
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 2: guest theory, because you know, Craig Mason, I think at

1102
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 2: the premiere he was saying that it's more than one season,

1103
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: which I would agree with. But the question is where

1104
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: do you start? How long do you how do you

1105
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 2: adapt the shocking opening of the second game, how soon

1106
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: do you do it? It will be very interesting to see,

1107
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 2: And I mean this has been such a huge hit

1108
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 2: for HBO that I think this is probably a this

1109
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 2: is a get making it as soon as you can.

1110
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: I think that this season Bill and Frank and the

1111
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: way they told that story is going to make the

1112
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: punch of Joel's decision, whatever it's going to be, it's

1113
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: going to make it even more.

1114
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 2: They could even do It's a nine episode season, so

1115
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 2: they could pull a game of Fernes and have episode

1116
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: eight be huge and then have the finale be kind

1117
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: of the smaller, more intimate fallout similar in tone and

1118
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 2: vibe to Bill and Frank, which is just him and

1119
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: Elli driving off afterwards and kind of dealing with the

1120
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 2: ramifications and the lies exact exactly. I mean, I'm so

1121
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 2: interested to see how they because it is not the

1122
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: hero's journey that we are used to.

1123
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: No, it's like it'sol is Like it's like if you

1124
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: entrusted the worst fucking hobbit with bringing the Ring of

1125
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: Power to mount do you know, like he's the best

1126
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: at killing everybody, And it's.

1127
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 2: Like if you just gave it to Golm and told

1128
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: him it's a strate because he's going to keep it.

1129
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was just, man, the way that that

1130
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: episode made me think about the ending of the game

1131
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: is really amazing, and it's just so well written, so

1132
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: well done.

1133
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I definitely think that's a not just

1134
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: because I mean it's only January, so it's obviously like

1135
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 2: the best episode of TV we've seen so far. But

1136
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 2: I mean that's unless we have the best year of

1137
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 2: TV that we've had in like two decades. That's going

1138
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: to be on every best of list because I mean

1139
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: there's just nothing like it. And for Murray and and Nick,

1140
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 2: that's that's got to be award system shutdown. I mean

1141
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: they were just so good.

1142
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: Well, end of spoiler conversation. Hopefully it has ended. It

1143
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: has ended. Now play the game. Go play the game.

1144
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: Up next Nerdout.

1145
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you

1146
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 2: love and why, or as you have also kindly been doing,

1147
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: share a very cool theory, the weird of the better

1148
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: that I have to say, you guys will have very

1149
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 2: legit theories compared to like our Timboil theories. Adam Pitch

1150
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: is a new theory today about Braun, one of the

1151
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 2: characters we talk about so much when it comes to

1152
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 2: Star Wars. And if you don't know the character, you

1153
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 2: first appeared in Timothy's Arn's Thorn trilogy and now Timothy

1154
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: came back after he was made canon, and he is

1155
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: just a blue skinned evil alien that everybody loves to hate.

1156
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: Tactical strategic genius, yeah, I mean he is political genius.

1157
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: He's one of the.

1158
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: Ultimate Star Wars villains. And when he was brought back

1159
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: into canon, it was just such a huge and I

1160
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: think that what Adam is proposing here is is very realistic.

1161
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: So Jason, I'll leave you to read the thing.

1162
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: Okay Adam writes, after seeing the Skywalker saga, we've all

1163
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: noticed the large number of characters whose absence in the

1164
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: finale is glaring. Dave Filoni is known to be an

1165
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,479
Speaker 1: encyclopedia of Star Wars knowledge and could provide an answer

1166
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: as to why those characters are missing. I postulate postulating.

1167
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: That's how I postulating right now. I postulate that Thron

1168
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: may have recruited them to the chis Ascendancy Dunk dun dum.

1169
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: He continues in the Throng novels, Thron had been recruiting

1170
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: people to the chiesss cause after the fall of the Empire,

1171
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: Thron could no longer see the remnants of the Empire

1172
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: as a possible ally for the Chists. That's you know,

1173
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: they were not strong enough. We know from the Mandalorian

1174
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: and Rebels that Ahsoka is actively searching for Ezra and

1175
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: Grand Admiral Thron. Thron would likely see Ahsoka, Ezra, Grogu

1176
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: and others as assets down to ch if he successfully

1177
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,919
Speaker 1: convinces some of all of them to go help the Chesse.

1178
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: That is a plausible explanation for their absence during the

1179
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: Rise of the First Order.

1180
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 2: Wow Wow, I mean that would probably be like the

1181
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: biggest twist of all time. If when Thorn showed up,

1182
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: he'd like recruited some of people's most favorite Force users

1183
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 2: to the chessis andency, everyone would be like screaming. I mean,

1184
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 2: I think with the Ahsoka show, yeah, I mean, it's

1185
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 2: it's not long until we see live action Thorn. It's

1186
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 2: got to happen, right People thought it was going to

1187
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: be Richet Ye Grant, which would have been great casting

1188
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 2: in the older Rise of Skywalka. But you know, I

1189
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 2: think it's I think we're gonna see it. I think

1190
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: it's gonna happen.

1191
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: So we're operating right now in a kind of time

1192
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: period of Star Wars history that is not it's you know,

1193
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: post Imperial the Rise of the First Order, and we

1194
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: don't know a ton of what's going on there. But

1195
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: this would be fascinating. I wonder man Thron with Grogu.

1196
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 2: I mean, that would be dangerous. Oh my god, imagine

1197
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,439
Speaker 2: if it with Thrawn, who saved Ggu because he wanted

1198
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 2: to use him.

1199
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,919
Speaker 1: I could see Thron and Ezra too. I could see,

1200
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, Ezra had those kind of flirtations with the

1201
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: dark Side or at least with a different No, it's

1202
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: just it was the dark.

1203
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 2: Direct all the days, we would have called it the

1204
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 2: Gray Jedi, but apparently you say that now you get

1205
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 2: in trouble. So I'm gonna say a flirtation with dark Side.

1206
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: But I could I could see Ezra working with Throng.

1207
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 2: I do think something very interesting about this is Grogu

1208
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 2: rejected the Jedi, chose the man Laura ways, so he

1209
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: doesn't fin Ahsoka rejected the Jedi, did not become a Jedi. Ezra,

1210
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: like you said, has had these flotations and existed outside

1211
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 2: of the classic Jedi space. So that is a very

1212
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 2: interesting read because those are characters with that very specific

1213
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 2: thing in common. They are not Jedi as we specifically

1214
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: know them, and they kind of of all rejected it

1215
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: certain points in their journey.

1216
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of Thron's backstory is gonna be

1217
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: canon when they bring him over it ac.

1218
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 2: I believe that the Zon original trilogy has been recanonized

1219
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: and needed a new Throorn trilogy, so we have that.

1220
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: To draw from.

1221
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know me, I'm a legends, I'm a

1222
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:22,919
Speaker 2: legend superstan Aka the EU. So anything that brings those

1223
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: kind of wild that wild West of Star Wars storytelling

1224
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: in I mean, also we have the Acolyte coming out,

1225
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,919
Speaker 2: which is going to be you know, through the told

1226
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 2: through the eyes of a Sith. I think there's a

1227
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 2: lot of interesting space that we could see some of

1228
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: these legends characters and a character like Thorn, who is

1229
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 2: animated canon but has not yet made it to live action,

1230
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 2: come into play. I would love to see it. I

1231
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 2: think that when they bring Thorn, that's going to be

1232
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 2: like a whole kind of different era of Star Wars

1233
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: as we know that.

1234
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: I've got to pitch I want. I want to see

1235
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: a imperial political drama like House of Cards. Okay, but

1236
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: it's Moth Tarkin verse Thron, both of them like jockeying

1237
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: for position.

1238
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a single lightsaber insight, you know much and

1239
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 2: or but like hyper political.

1240
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: Hyper political, just them like chess moves against each other,

1241
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: each trying to usurp the other, to be like the guy,

1242
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: the guy, the number one, number one guy, and then

1243
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: and then Darth Vader being like the wild card because

1244
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: he thinks he's the guy. I would like to see that.

1245
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to see it.

1246
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: Man, that was really really fun. Adam thank you so much.

1247
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you have those theories or passions that

1248
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:40,959
Speaker 2: you want to share, you know, we've had adubts about

1249
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: all kinds of cool stuff and the theory train is

1250
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: running strong, so hit us up at x ray at

1251
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: cricket dot com and as always, the instructions are in

1252
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: the show notes.

1253
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: Well, that's it for this really fun episode. What are

1254
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: great episodes to record and a fun thing to talk

1255
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: about today, Rosie, any plugs?

1256
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 2: Yes, I will be writing all kinds of cool stuff.

1257
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 2: We're coming up to Antman and the Wasp time. You

1258
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 2: can check out my writing ign notice then of geek Polygon,

1259
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,479
Speaker 2: all those cool places you can find me a Rosie

1260
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: marks on Instagram or later boxed and yeah where people find.

1261
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: You, you can find me right here twice a week,

1262
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 1: yeah baby, and Fridays in your podcast feed and other places.

1263
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that later. Catch the next episode on Friday,

1264
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: February fourth for a little mailbag action. Remember, we are

1265
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: bringing you to episodes a week, two episodes a week.

1266
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: That's one, two episodes a week. Make a peace sign.

1267
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: That's how many episodes a week we are bringing you.

1268
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 2: And if you like those episodes, then subscribe on YouTube

1269
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 2: where we are now putting up the whole episodes, and

1270
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 2: you can follow us on XRV pod on Twitter and

1271
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 2: check out our discord, which we've been shouting out a

1272
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: lot because it's a lot of fun. We've got a

1273
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,919
Speaker 2: ton of great members and they love to talk about

1274
01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 2: all the things we love to talk about. We do

1275
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: him watchpot. He's for the last of us and me

1276
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 2: and Jason Odd there. So yeah, make sure you check

1277
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 2: out the discord and show.

1278
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: It some love. Five star ratings. We need them, we

1279
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: gotta have them. We will time you're giving them to us.

1280
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: Here's one from our crow Detroit. Great, great, great. The

1281
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: opportunity to spend time with Jason Rosie is truly one

1282
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:20,919
Speaker 1: of the highlights.

1283
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 2: Of my week.

1284
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I'm an old school comic collector, sci

1285
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: fi reader, movie fan. You are my people. Yeah, one

1286
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: of us. Let's go us. X ray Vision is a

1287
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord

1288
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: and Sol Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself

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Speaker 1: and Sandy's rhad Are editing and sound designers by Vascilla's Photopoulos.

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Speaker 1: Dylon Villanueva and Matt de Group provide video production. Support

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Speaker 1: Alex Rellaford handle social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for

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Speaker 1: the music, See you next time. Bye bye. Joel's got

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Speaker 1: to hang out for a little while. Man, what the fuck.