WEBVTT - UPDATE Au Pair Affair Murder Trial: “I Withheld the Truth for a Long Time”

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, folks. It is Wednesday, January fourteenth, and the

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<v Speaker 1>O Pair at the center of the so called O

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<v Speaker 1>Pair affair murder trial continues. Her testimony cross examination has

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<v Speaker 1>gotten underway. A lawyer had some questions for her, and

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<v Speaker 1>now a lot of us are going to have some

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<v Speaker 1>questions with that. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I start with first of all, of course, the

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<v Speaker 1>good defense attorney is going to do his job. He's

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<v Speaker 1>going to put some holes in the story. She seems

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<v Speaker 1>to be pretty steady and hasn't necessarily seemed to be

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<v Speaker 1>shaken just yet by the lawyer.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been impressed by her composure.

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<v Speaker 3>She started off on the stand first yesterday, a little shaky,

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<v Speaker 3>a little emotional.

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<v Speaker 2>She seems composed.

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<v Speaker 3>She doesn't seem to rattle, which is good in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of her ability to keep her emotional level steady, which

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<v Speaker 3>I think must be a pretty difficult thing to do

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<v Speaker 3>given what she's admitted to and what she's accusing someone

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<v Speaker 3>who she once loved deeply, according to her, and he's

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<v Speaker 3>just a few feet from her.

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<v Speaker 2>That cannot be easy.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, she seemed annoyed at times, but never combative.

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<v Speaker 1>She never took it that far, and I'll give the

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<v Speaker 1>attorney credit as well. He has been very steady and

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<v Speaker 1>respectful with her.

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<v Speaker 3>You know what it's interesting, it's defense attorneys are known

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<v Speaker 3>oftentimes to be sharks, and you know they are going

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<v Speaker 3>to go to bat for their client no matter what.

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<v Speaker 3>He has a like a fatherly, grandfatherly warmth about him

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<v Speaker 3>that is unusual in a defense attorney. But I find

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<v Speaker 3>it to be very effective because you're almost he's very likable,

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<v Speaker 3>which is an unusual quality.

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<v Speaker 2>And a defense attorney.

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<v Speaker 3>And he's not being a showboat like what you would

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<v Speaker 3>expect for some larger than life defense attorne.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually just seems like a genuine, good human being.

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<v Speaker 3>That's it. That's been my takeaway is his voice, his demeanor,

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<v Speaker 3>how he's even asking tough.

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<v Speaker 1>Questions, a slow talker even so, yes, give everybody credit

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<v Speaker 1>for at least doing their job so far. But yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the Brendan Banfield trial on trial with double murder

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<v Speaker 1>killing his wife and also a stranger, someone that, according

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<v Speaker 1>to prosecutors, he lured to the house as a part

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<v Speaker 1>of some the BDSM what do you call it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he basically tried to make it look like his

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<v Speaker 3>wife was into some sort of deviant sex with the

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<v Speaker 3>stranger who was carrying out a rape fantasy that he

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<v Speaker 3>walked in on and read the wrong way and thought

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<v Speaker 3>someone was attacking his wife with a knife shot him,

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<v Speaker 3>but he didn't make it in time before that said

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<v Speaker 3>sex sexual deviance was stabbing his wife to death.

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<v Speaker 2>Is what he wants jurors to believe.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going to have to come up with a

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<v Speaker 1>shorter way to explain this case because we're gonna have

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<v Speaker 1>to cover for the next several weeks. I kind of

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<v Speaker 1>come up with it just a simple way. You could

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<v Speaker 1>just say, yes, it's the old pair affair murder trial,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe a decent enough A number of people are familiar.

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<v Speaker 1>But to just explain this thing is tricky.

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<v Speaker 3>It is because it's a murder case like we've never

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<v Speaker 3>seen or heard before.

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<v Speaker 2>This is this is a new one.

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<v Speaker 1>So yes, she got on the stand yesterday. Juliana Perez

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<v Speaker 1>Miguelas is the name the old pair. Twenty five years

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<v Speaker 1>old now, but twenty one when this affair started, as

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<v Speaker 1>she was working for the family. But yeah, she dealt

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<v Speaker 1>with direct yesterday. Cross examination started this morning and it

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<v Speaker 1>started grow. She had to explain herself first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>which was about this plea deal, like why are you here?

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<v Speaker 3>It's a big deal because for many, many months, and

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<v Speaker 3>we'll get into the letters that the defense was able

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<v Speaker 3>to produce, she was professing her love for Brent in Banfield,

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<v Speaker 3>to him, to his mother, saying that she did nothing wrong,

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<v Speaker 3>She didn't do anything untoward. She stayed with what Brendan

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<v Speaker 3>has been saying all along. They were a united force

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of their story as to what happened. And

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<v Speaker 3>then suddenly she takes this plea deal and now she

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<v Speaker 3>has a completely different version of what happened. And so

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<v Speaker 3>rightfully so the defense attorney is going to say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>so you weren't telling the truth now, but now you're

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<v Speaker 3>telling the truth. That's definitely going to be a huge

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<v Speaker 3>hurdle for prosecutors because she is their case. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>she pretty much is. The case is built around her

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<v Speaker 3>narrative of what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, in opening did they say? What did they

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<v Speaker 1>say they're going to offer? In terms of physical evidence.

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<v Speaker 3>The only thing I heard in opening arguments from the

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<v Speaker 3>prosecutor beyond getting Juliana's testimony, direct testimony and version of events,

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<v Speaker 3>was blood evidence and she said, there will be blood

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<v Speaker 3>evidence we will be able to show you that will

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<v Speaker 3>prove that Brendan was on top of his wife stabbing

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<v Speaker 3>her with that knife in the neck. So that is

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<v Speaker 3>the other evidence we're expecting to hear beyond Juliana's story.

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<v Speaker 3>But clearly, if you don't believe Juliani Juliana, then you're

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<v Speaker 3>gonna have a hard time with the rest of the case.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna say, we always put ourselves in that jury box,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're giving enough, they are setting up enough that

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<v Speaker 1>you would have doubts about the story and the reason

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<v Speaker 1>there are doubts that are coming because yes, this plea

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<v Speaker 1>deal is here, but they have set up now robes

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<v Speaker 1>the timing of this thing where they're asking her, why

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<v Speaker 1>did you decide to come forward when you did, because

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<v Speaker 1>there is how much time between her making the plea

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<v Speaker 1>deal and her initial arrest. We're talking about a year.

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<v Speaker 2>It was almost a year.

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<v Speaker 3>And yes, and she is in these letters getting more

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<v Speaker 3>and more desperate.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So in these letters that they had her read

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch of she was raw, emotional and the letters

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<v Speaker 1>you could hear her decline over time that she started

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<v Speaker 1>getting worse, talking about wanting it to end. She sounded alluicidal, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and what is it? Not clear? And they made the point,

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<v Speaker 1>but listening to it did not sound like the longer

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<v Speaker 1>she was in there, the worst things were getting.

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<v Speaker 3>So the defense attorney was trying very much to get

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<v Speaker 3>her to admit that as time went on, the longer

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<v Speaker 3>she was in prison, the longer she was denied any

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<v Speaker 3>sort of bond, or her hearings weren't going.

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<v Speaker 2>The way she wanted them to. She was getting more.

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<v Speaker 3>And more depressed, more and more desperate, and she was

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<v Speaker 3>writing exactly where she was mentally to Brendan and his mother,

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<v Speaker 3>and she did sound suicidal, and it was declining. Now

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<v Speaker 3>she wouldn't admit that she was declining. She said she

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<v Speaker 3>thought that she stayed the same. But you could see

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<v Speaker 3>the defenser he's trying to establish. The longer you stayed

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<v Speaker 3>in there, the worse you got, which would make sense.

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<v Speaker 3>And at a certain point, what he's trying to get

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<v Speaker 3>her to admit is that she broke that eventually she

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't take it anymore, and she was just at a

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<v Speaker 3>point where she would sign anything, say anything to get

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<v Speaker 3>out of jail.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was a year. I'm looking at the dates

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<v Speaker 1>here because he hit her on this point. October thirteenth

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<v Speaker 1>of two thousand and three, that's around the time she

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<v Speaker 1>was arrested, twenty twenty three, twenty three, excuse me. And

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<v Speaker 1>then October twenty eighth of twenty twenty four is when

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<v Speaker 1>she signed the deal. Now, he pointed out, as she

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<v Speaker 1>was saying, I'm here because I want to tell the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>I want the truth to get out, he asked, well,

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<v Speaker 1>why didn't you want it to get out until the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighth of October when you had a full year

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<v Speaker 1>to get the truth out? And that's a fair question.

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<v Speaker 1>He also pointed out Robes she read excerpts from letters

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<v Speaker 1>in which her depressive state to anger, anger at her attorney,

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<v Speaker 1>anger at the legal process, and this was around the

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<v Speaker 1>time she all of a sudden she gets a deal.

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<v Speaker 1>So he is setting up at least a timeline that

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<v Speaker 1>makes you go, hmm, what change.

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<v Speaker 3>It shows seeds of doubt. And you have a quote

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<v Speaker 3>from her and she said this, I withheld the truth.

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<v Speaker 2>For a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyone who is going to say that on the stand

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<v Speaker 3>will make you, as a juror, question whether or not

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<v Speaker 3>you can believe she's telling the truth. Now, That is

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<v Speaker 3>the problem for the prosecution, and that is the problem

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<v Speaker 3>for any testimony this so pair gives because for a

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<v Speaker 3>full year she was saying something completely different.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I guess you could make an argument that

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<v Speaker 1>she was scared, she was trying to protect him. I

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<v Speaker 1>guess you can. But it is difficult to hear that

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<v Speaker 1>she's here now doing the right thing when there was

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<v Speaker 1>a long time when she had an oportus do the

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<v Speaker 1>right thing. They also Robes didn't expect this to be

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<v Speaker 1>a big deal, and it almost looked like it surprised

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<v Speaker 1>the attorney a little bit. She couldn't remember some details

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<v Speaker 1>about the laptop. A big part of this has been

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<v Speaker 1>that they set up this fetty what's the website?

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry it's now you just said fet life life dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, met life, it's yes life again.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's actually okay that you didn't remember the

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<v Speaker 3>name of the website. It's just further, I didn't need

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<v Speaker 3>to know that you didn't know this, But it's not

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<v Speaker 3>on our radar, so it's not something that we can

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<v Speaker 3>just go, oh, yeah, fet life, you know that website

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<v Speaker 3>that we've never been to, would have.

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<v Speaker 2>Never heard of before.

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<v Speaker 1>So fet life a big part of the story, and

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<v Speaker 1>a big part of the plot, was that they signed

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<v Speaker 1>up for this account in the wife's name without her knowing,

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<v Speaker 1>and they had to use her laptop and robes. He said, well,

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<v Speaker 1>how did you do that with the wife in the

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<v Speaker 1>house and she said, well, she usually leaves her bag

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<v Speaker 1>by the door. He said, okay, so who got it?

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<v Speaker 1>Don't know? Okay, then where did you go and sign

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<v Speaker 1>up in the house? Don't know who did it? Brendan?

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<v Speaker 1>Where to do it? Don't know? She could remember nothing

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<v Speaker 1>of signing up other than that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's glaring.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a big deal because this is again a huge

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<v Speaker 3>part of the prosecution's theory here that yes, Brendan and Juliana,

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<v Speaker 3>according to Juliana had to create this fake account using

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<v Speaker 3>his wife's photos, pretending to be Christina, and that's a

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<v Speaker 3>huge part of the story that has to be true

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<v Speaker 3>for their theory to work, it has to be.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a good way that has It must be.

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<v Speaker 3>For her not to remember something that important in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of how they started this plan and how they put

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<v Speaker 3>the plan in place by creating this fake account to

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<v Speaker 3>lure this person to their home to then pin the

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<v Speaker 3>murder on. How could she not remember, because that is

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<v Speaker 3>a thing to note that for them to get her

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<v Speaker 3>computer while she was in the house and log onto

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<v Speaker 3>her computer and pretend to be her. What is Christina

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<v Speaker 3>doing at this time? How are they sneaking around doing?

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<v Speaker 3>You would remember that because you'd be nervous, because you'd

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<v Speaker 3>be doing something that you wouldn't want to get caught at,

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<v Speaker 3>so you would remember it. Those are the kinds of

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<v Speaker 3>things you remember.

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<v Speaker 1>She only remembered that the wife was upstairs, was all

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<v Speaker 1>she would say. He said, well, where were you? How

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<v Speaker 1>do you know she was up where you were down?

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<v Speaker 1>She had I mean, she could give zero details about

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<v Speaker 1>how they took it physically out of the bag. You

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<v Speaker 1>have had to put it back, and weren't you the

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<v Speaker 1>one that did the deeper dive on it? But the

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<v Speaker 1>groups of folks and digital forensic folks who actually say

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<v Speaker 1>that the wife was the one using it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, So, so he is already setting up with Juliana

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<v Speaker 3>the defense attorney here if she can't get specific or

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<v Speaker 3>remember this story that she told to prosecutors.

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<v Speaker 2>And now you have members of.

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<v Speaker 3>The detective team who actually believe and they're going to

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<v Speaker 3>get into this when the defense presents its evidence who

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<v Speaker 3>believe that, yes, Christina is the one who set it up.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't believe digital forensic experts. They had an outsource

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<v Speaker 3>to the University of Alabama. Pere reviewed that that group.

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<v Speaker 3>That team also believes that it was Christina who set

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<v Speaker 3>up the account.

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<v Speaker 2>If that is something the jury believes.

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<v Speaker 1>There's case.

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:43.679
<v Speaker 2>There is no case.

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that is a very important detail. But stay with

0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 1>us here, folks. We'll get into a little more of

0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:55.640
<v Speaker 1>what happened, including some of her bizarre behavior after the murders,

0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 1>also her relationship with a few reporters who have been

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.440
<v Speaker 1>slipping her money and might be trying to get her

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 1>a TV deal. Stay here, all right. We continue here

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.840
<v Speaker 1>on Amy and TEJ with the so called O Pair

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 1>affair murder trial going on. Brendan Banfield accused of killing

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.080
<v Speaker 1>his wife and another man he had lured to the house.

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 1>They went to a lunch break. As we're recording this,

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 1>they are still they're still be coming, just coming back

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.840
<v Speaker 1>from lunch, and we do expect the old pair. Juliana

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 1>say the name for me, It's not easy.

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:45.960
<v Speaker 2>She is Brazilian, so this is Portuguese.

0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.480
<v Speaker 3>Juliana Perez Mahales is my best effort at saying her

0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 3>name correctly.

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we will see her back on the stand today

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 1>with ropes they did hit on. I mean, just looks

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.600
<v Speaker 1>weird or looks bad about her behavior after the murders,

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.840
<v Speaker 1>including moving back into the house where the murders had

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.600
<v Speaker 1>taken place. But her sleeping arrangements kind of changed while

0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.200
<v Speaker 1>she was there. She was she said, well, she went back.

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.800
<v Speaker 1>She was staying in her own room when she went back.

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Where then someone asked, were you staying in there by yourself? No,

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 1>so the husband, Brendan was staying in there, But that

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 1>arrangement didn't last long.

0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so they were originally staying in her room, which

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 3>I understand because yeah, people were shot and killed in

0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 3>that bed and in that bedroom. But eventually Juliana moved

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 3>into the master bedroom and she put up photos of

0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.480
<v Speaker 3>her and Brendan in the nightstand.

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 2>She put her clothing in what was.

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 3>Once Christina's closet. She put a Brazilian flag up in

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 3>the bedroom. I mean she she moved in and basically

0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.600
<v Speaker 3>assumed wifely a wifely position in the house.

0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 1>And yes, they were there living with the child who

0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:01.880
<v Speaker 1>ended up.

0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Being four just before the time of the murders. So

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 3>the and this isn't that long ago. We're talking what

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 3>two years ago, a year and a half ago, So

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 3>the little girl four five, six, yeah, little.

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 1>So these are some of the things that defense has

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.560
<v Speaker 1>been hitting on, but also Robes that it came out

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 1>talking about her relationship with reporters. Some local reporters who

0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 1>were in touch with her while she was in jail

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 1>used to well, she said, give her money for her

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 1>phone calls, and give her money for the commissary for prison.

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Those things just came out. But from that it came

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 1>out Robes that she has talked to someone and named

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 1>a production company and negotiations are currently ongoing about possibly

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.040
<v Speaker 1>getting her some money to tell her story and possibly

0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 1>a TV show.

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.479
<v Speaker 3>Look, the problem is when you have the key witness

0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 3>in this case, where your entire case pretty much is

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.840
<v Speaker 3>hinging on her version of events, if you can make

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 3>her look transactional, if you can see as a juror, wow,

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.760
<v Speaker 3>she got out of jail for free, basically, even though

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 3>she's saying she pulled the trigger at least in one

0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.200
<v Speaker 3>of the deaths. But because she's testifying and turning against

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 3>her once lover, she's literally going to walk away and

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 3>head to Brazil. And on top of that, she was

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 3>somebody who was giving information to reporters in exchange for money.

0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 3>She's somebody who might be profiting off of this story

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 3>she is now telling and selling as the.

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Truth for a movie deal.

0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Her credibility at that point now is shaken.

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:43.920
<v Speaker 2>At the very least.

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Everything you said you can't help, but that has to

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 1>be a part of it, everything she has gone through.

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>She might be telling one hundred percent the truth on everything,

0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>but if you're sitting there as a juror, you cannot

0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 1>help but think something is up, because we now we

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 1>have several scenarios in which it looks like she has

0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>done something a little untoward or maybe even criminal for

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.720
<v Speaker 1>the sake of covern Own ass and she will throw

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>anybody under the bus to do.

0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 3>And look, hearing those letters and how and what she

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.320
<v Speaker 3>was saying not just a brenda but to his mom,

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 3>you know you hear a completely different version, a completely

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 3>different set of experiences emotions than what you're seeing here

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.439
<v Speaker 3>in court. That's hard. Which version of her do you

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.199
<v Speaker 3>believe her written word? What she said right after the murders,

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.960
<v Speaker 3>what she said six months after the murders what she

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.600
<v Speaker 3>said when she got a really big sweetheart deal. Which

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 3>one is the truth?

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.160
<v Speaker 2>How are you supposed to know who? Which version are

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 2>you supposed to believe?

0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:57.159
<v Speaker 1>Well, she continues, folks, she'll continue to testify this afternoon.

0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 1>As always, top right corner your podcast Apple podcast app,

0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 1>we see our show page button says follow click that

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.919
<v Speaker 1>you can subscribe and get all the updates coming to

0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:09.920
<v Speaker 1>you so you don't have to go hunting for them.

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:11.640
<v Speaker 1>We'll keep an eye on this this afternoon. We'll hop

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 1>back on if anything comes to the surface. But as always,

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 1>we appreciate you spending some time here on t J

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 1>holmes On behalf of Amy Robot. We'll talk to you

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:20.440
<v Speaker 1>all soon.